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MIT Urges Brazilian Government to Use Linux
sebFlyte writes "MIT's Media Lab has written to the Brazillian government (who is looking into a method to get its citizens cheap, high quality PCs) and has urged them to use Linux. From the article: 'Free software is far better on the dimensions of cost, power and quality...if the source code is proprietary, it is hidden from the general population. This robs them of a tremendous source for learning.'"
It isn't like MIT is going to recommend BSD is it?
if the source code is proprietary, it is hidden from the general population. This robs them of a tremendous source for learning
:)
Incredible: it's the best argument I've heard about it. I don't really like the usage of the words "rob" and how emphatical it sounds but it's right.
Anyway, I learnt on an Acorn RiscPC (closed source OS) which was really ergonomical and it was also good so I sugest he should revise his consideration : open source is good but ergonomy also is and I'm afraid that, because progresses still have to be made, they can't argue much on this point.
Anyway I think the World would be better if the Brazilians heard that argument and accepted the principle.
Hooray for the MIT !
Trolling using another account since 2005.
When M$ 'donates' cash for a new MIT lab. Good move MIT.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
The title says it all!
The MIT guys just want a reason to be invited to the carnival!
You go guys!
Maybe there even is a tux-at-carnivale department at MIT...
I wonder why, if it is an already estabilished State policy in Brazil.
And no, I didn't RTFineA.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
I know that Linux is used widely throughout the government in Brazil for their work, it seems only logical that they would load Linux on the machines they are distributing throughout their country for the poor.
If they use Linux they will be robbed of something even more valuable... Half Life 2.
I don't see why it's a big deal the MIT is contributing to the needs of Brazil. MIT is highly respected and not taken lightly. Good for them for helping out.
"I cannot think of any need in childhood as strong as the need for a father's protection." -- Sigmund Freud
Here in the UK the waste of money in the public sector on MS and other software licences is huge! If only we took such a forward thinking approch.
I found the article very encouraging. I think there's a danger of Linux appearing as something that's a cheap alternative used in the third world because they can't afford "first rate" proprietary software. This is patronizing both to Linux and to third world countries. It's great to see intelligent arguments to choose open source beyond simple cost being made by a government, as in If the source code is proprietary, it is hidden from the general population. This robs them of a tremendous source for learning.
Several other people have also written Brazil to advise them to use FedEx for their International shipping to save money.
I'm a big tall mofo.
free software is not the same as Open Source. Maybe it's something to do with their logo, "Where technology means business." Minor point, but still.
How to use coral cache: http://slashdot.org.nyud.net:8090/~oscartheduck
Talk about antagonizing your big money corporate sponsors, including the guy who built the new building around the corner on Vassar St. Gutsy move, but not a terribly bright one, unless self-immolation is their next plan.
Ok, Save the hassle, flamebait, troll what ever.. What will these poor people do with these computers? Why not fix the country, fix the government, fix the future of the people instead of giving them Computers. Hmm lets see, I'm sure linux will help them manage their NON EXISITING bank accounts. Or, I could be looking at this the wrong way, and if i am, fine, correct me.
Don't be so silly - we get excellent value for our IT services - it's a snip, at £48,000,000,000 per year to manage 160,000 government computers - I mean, seriously, that's only £300,00 per computer, per year, which is pretty minimal - and there's no such thing as 'free' software - if there was, microsoft would have told us about it.
Anyway, I'm in charge of government IT purchasing here, and it's just fine, thanks - oh, hang on, gotta go, the kids are playing on my gold plated runway again.
That was the worst analogy I've ever seen I think.
This sig is the express property of someone.
The Brazilian Government is doing this to do the Digital Inclusion that the citizens need, only fews people here in Brazil has access to a computer and Internet connection.
Bill Gates tryed to do a meeting with our president Lula but by the way it don't happened.
http://www.michel.eti.br
Remember when MIT was all about mathematics, science and engineering rather than a international public policy think-tank?
Oh well, there's still Caltech and Harvey Mudd.
The article does not mention anywhere that ``MIT Urges Brazilian Government to Use Linux'',. MIT seems to suggest to use ``Free software''. I wish people would stop equating the two; there are many, many other free software or open source projects that are not linux, and I believe it's harmful to the overall open source community to continue to enforce the notion that Open Source == Linux (and linux only).
-- "Tradition is the illusion of permanence."
While that may be true for the vast majority of the population, it's an insult to the minority who will tinker with the code of the OSS they are exposed to, get a taste for it, and go on to develop a home-grown software industry as a result.
I just received the new product catalog from HP and Windows Media Player Suite is at the "bargain" price of $200.
LOL!!! That gave me a good laugh! Talking about irrelevancy here! Somebody needs to send them xine or mplayer on a 50cent CD with a $1 red ribbon on it. They just do not get it and it will be a while since they do, but it will be too late.
Insulting the intelligence of the population with the FUD campaign won't cut it either!
Go Brazil! Europe and Asia are following suite sooner or later!
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
Give them email accounts, and they will quickly fill these bank accounts:
"Dear Sir, Confidential Business Proposal Having consulted with my colleagues and based on the information gathered from the Nigeri^H^HBrazillian Chambers Of Commerce And Industry, I have the privilege to request your assistance to transfer the sum of $47,500,000.00 (forty seven million, five hundred thousand United States dollars) into your accounts. The above sum resulted from an over-invoiced contract, executed, commissioned and paid for about five years (5) ago by a foreign contractor. This action was however intentional and since then the fund has been in a suspense account at The Central Bank Of Nig^H^H^HBrazillian Apex Bank."
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
No kidding. That's always been the least compeeling linux argument for me (and I say this as a user) - it is NOT possible for even a college trained programmer to go in and start playing with even a small OSS project. I'd say less than 100 Brazillians would be benefited from the "openness" angle of linux. It pretty much comes down to cost and an abstract principle that has no impact for them.
While that may be true for the vast majority of the population, it's an insult to the minority who will tinker with the code of the OSS they are exposed to, get a taste for it, and go on to develop a home-grown software industry as a result.
How very true! Somewhere out there, in Brazil, or anywhere else, is a kid who wants to learn how an OS works, and wants to try his hand at making it better. Who the hell are Megacorps to deny that kid the right to do that, just because "the majority doesn't need to know".
By the way, Marcello Tossati, maintainer of the 2.4 kernel, is from Brazil. He works for the local Brazilian distro called Connectiva. How could any of this have been possible if the world only had a shoddy Microsoft playpen to play in, with the nicest toys only meant for the privileged few employed by Megacorp to write operating systems?
No kidding. That's always been the least compeeling linux argument for me (and I say this as a user) - it is NOT possible for even a college trained programmer to go in and start playing with even a small OSS project.
Then why was the Brazilian kid Marcelo Tossatti, not even gone to college yet at the time, elected by Linus Torvalds as maintainer of the freakin' LINUX KERNEL (2.4.x)?
The openness doesn't hurt, so if doesn't benefit you, don't whine about it.
Maybe, but at least I still have a short-term memory:/ 1517207&tid=163&tid=1&tid=218
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/16
Just for clarification: I was not being serious.
I'm a Brazilian and i always see many things that MIT is one step further than others institutions or governments, that's why i see MIT as a visionary college, from the current present to the near future ... once again, i have to say that i strongly agree with MIT vision and i think it is time to get rid of fear on using Linux, Open Source software, and thinking the user is so dummy to grasp any other OS than Windows ... lower costs will reach more people, which means more users and then more programmers ...
why are they considering even putting windows on these boxes - if the government runs linux on a number of their pc's it should be a slam dunk.
maybe corporations are trying to use this as a training opportunity for their employees - if all the corporations run windows and the employees run windows at home then their training costs would be practically zero. but if they run linux then the corporations will have to train them or take their business where the people know windows already.
call me paranoid but this is just a thought. I can't think of another reason why they would even be considering a broken version of windows. the people can learn how to do all kinds of stuff using linux.
Clearly, if they just ordered the Ubuntu disks, then they could get one for each citizen. Crap, please don't /. Ubuntu ordering free disks now.....
Ubuntu Linux or just go here: Ubuntu Shipit
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
Could somebody please explain how this:
"MIT's Media Lab has written to the Brazillian
government (who is looking into a method to get
its citizens cheap, high quality PCs) and has
urged them to use Linux."
Was derived from this:
From the article: 'Free software is far better on
the dimensions of cost, power and quality...if
the source code is proprietary, it is hidden from
the general population. This robs them of a
tremendous source for learning.'"
They said free software, not GPL or GNU/Linux
You could run Hurd or BSD.
Why is it that everyone associates Free == Linux.
Yes, because there are only as many programmers in the world as there are 6-year-old quantum physicists.
Also, what if some 6-year-old out there was smart enough to learn quantum physics? Would you not be robbing that child of learning by denying textbooks? Just because other children wouldn't benefit from the books doesn't mean that child wouldn't.
Have you tried Linux yet?
Just because your grandma can't figure out how to use a mouse yet, You souldn't transfer that to a population of dispriviledged people that are eager to learn new skills to they can get a better job and maybe feed themselves and their family properly. And learning how to program with Linux will certainly land those people a better job than learning how to use MS Word. It's really all about motivation when you get down to it.
At the same time that there are millions of unemployed brazilian workers, the industries are in desperate need of trained professionals, and that's why Linux computers for the masses are a Good Thing.
FTA
Some cabinet members think consumers should have a choice between buying a computer with open source software and paying slightly more for a machine with Microsoft software. They think this approach would make sense to reach consumers who are already familiar with Microsoft software. But free-software advocates within Lula's administration believe Microsoft should be excluded from the program.
I'm all for Linux (OSS), but a bit disturbed when when advocates of any technology try to advocate less choice. Why NOT give the people the option to have MS or OSS? Trying to force "free" or "open" software upon the people doesn't sound open or free to me!
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
"If the source code is proprietary, it is hidden from the general population. This robs them of a tremendous source for learning,"
This sounds overblown. Giving computers to 1 million of the country's poorest citizens will *grant them* a tremendous source for learning, regardless of the operating system that is used. I don't think the ability to hack the source code is going to have an impact on the "learning" for the vast majority of these users.
"[Open] source serves not only as an example of programming ideas and implementations, but also the development community serves as an accessible social learning community of practice."
Huh? What does this sentence even mean? It just looks like a jumble of pleasant-sounding words. I mean, who can argue with "learning", "community", "ideas", and "social"?
The point no one's making: those 100 (probably more like several thousand - Brazil ain't dumb) people can directly help everyone else. Under closed software, the only real help comes from the vendor, who in this case has a terrible track record.
Because I am a big fan of it, I would like to take a moment to plug MIT's OpenCourseWare, where you have access to MIT's entire course catalog, including assignments, videos, and other materials. Want to learn Japanese? Go for it. Or perhaps Electromagnetic Fields, Forces, and Motion is more to your liking. Have at thee.
MIT has shown their dedication to an open academic atmosphere and the benefits for the public of easy access to knowledge. Their endorsement of free software here is completely consistent with their previous actions.
Good for them.
I hate to sound like RMS but you do realize that when most people say Linux they mean more than just the kernel?
All of the software is open. You can go look at the code for ls or the Gimp or whatever you want. Yes only a few hardcore geeks will care about the internals of kernel code but your missing the point.
With all of the software being open you can always look at what is going on. You can always change whatever you want. You can always verify that your code is free of spyware/trojans/whatever.
Having access to the code is not just one thing it's a lot of things and I don't think you really get it.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
No, its like saying that hiding Quantum Physics textbooks from the general public robs them of learning.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Except that computers are a bit more of a real life skill than quantum, and it would be rather more useful for the Brazilian nation if they could better understand the OS they are using and who knows, even write code for it.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Saying that hiding the source for an Operating System from the general public robs them of learning is like saying keeping Quantum Physics textbooks away from six year olds robs them of learning.
Worst analogy ever, and inaccurate.
I am a successful software engineer. I started my interest in computers primarily on a system called CDC Plato, and later on the TRS-80, both which had the development environment available and integrated into the OS by default, not unlike most Linux installations. The convenience of being able to tinker with software in varying degrees of involvement without having to acquire extra, expensive tools and exponentially larger learning curves made all the difference.
I really feel sorry for kids today trying to learn programming. There are no IDEs conveniently available within Windows by default. At best, one can hope to master the user interface of a particular version of some proprietary software -- all of which is subject to instant obsoletion upon release of a subsequent version.
Just a thought.. if you're running windows and you download the linux source to ponder, it's purely academic from your standpoint. You can't directly apply what you learn, you can't fiddle and observe results. You might as well be looking at it through a glass wall. But if you already run linux, and you peek and poke at the source, you can observe first hand what results and why.
This isn't so convincing a reason for the individual user, but for the gov't of Brazil, the collective difference in value is probably considerable, if they are thinking about their future IT industry.
Hi Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva!
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
This thing probally won't come out of the paper as the last try. Instead of doing all of this yad-yada (bla-bla-bla), government should work to lower taxes and raise salaries, so people could acctually buy a computer by themselves! I worked hard and have a nice duron 1.6, it's not a big thing and it came throught Paraguay (this mean, no taxes) as most people here do, because they can't afford a regular pc sold in shops that is 3 times more expensive.
What idiot modded this up as "insightful"?
I would like to point out, that until you first sat down at a computer, you were a member of the general public. Dickhead.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
Isn't keeping Quantum Physics textbooks from the public against the US constitution ?
Actually, programming is a lot easier than Quantum Physics, six year olds can do it.
What keeps me going is my inertia.
I'm not trying to say that Linux, or some kind of OSS solution is not appropriate, but you're talking about costs here, and the benefit that the handful of individuals who will be able to decipher the kernel, which they can download for free anyway given any OS solution, isn't the most important factor in this decision. It's like saying we should clean up the environment so that we don't have to look at dead fish washing up on shore.. Yes, that's true, and it would be nice to do that, but there's more important factors as to why we should clean up the environment.
When you dig down into the story a little more you can find the truth: Some geek at MIT used "so, you ever hear of linux?" as a pick-up line on super model Giselle.... which translates into a /. headline of MIT Urges Brazilian Government to Use Linux.
hack a day
but maybe in the near future there will be a headline:
MIT Urges World Governments to Use Linux
But schools are locked into Microsoft. I would sooner kids used Linux and the like, would give them a better start in IT than using the monoculture.
All those people "robbed of learning" can still download the sources themselves. It's not like it's a choice between shipping each brazilian citizen a CD full of sources and blocking them access to OSS projects' websites.
They DO hide quantum physics texts from the public. They put them in mysterious repositories called libraries which most people are afraid to enter because they contain information and other stuff that makes their heads hurt.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Open source software such as Linux, particularly outside the US, is really coming into its own. I had a bit of an epiphany recently that I'd like to share with you. For the longest time we've been obsessing about Linux on the desktop, and watching things like Google Zeitgeist to try to figure out what our market share is and when it's going to finally take that sharp upturn that signals the beginning of the end of the Microsoft monopoly.
But what has happened in the meantime? As Linux users, we find ourselves missing things from the ball-and-chains world less and less. I, for one, haven't needed to use proprietary software for anything in a few years now. What does this mean? It means that the Linux and open source world is now completely self-sustaining. Whether or not we have numbers that compare to Apple's and Microsoft's, we still have numbers big enough that we're here to stay, and there will probably always be enough new, good software to keep us going now. That's a comforting thing to know. (But I still think it'll get bigger.)
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Face it, despite apache and firefox/mozilla, linux IS THE face for open source. Richard M Stallman did a great thing with the gnu and it was used long before linus torvald started his work but it is Linux that gave it its growning glory.
So just swallow your pride, bow down to the penguin and get at the back of the parade. If your nice you may carry a small Hurd or BSD sign.
Just like Bill Gates true genious was in business not software Linus true genious is not in coding but in somehow making his project likable enough to get into the mainstream, something BSD has totally and utterly failed for how many decades now?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There's ONE.
Not when there's Multics. You could probably emulate the Multics hardware on a pic these days.
I mean, if you need proof the Multics is the way to go, consider this: Multics is the only operating system in which the path separator makes sense. The file C in the subdirectory B of directory A is called "A>B>C", not "A/B/C", nor yet "A\B\C".
Not only does thie capture the intuitive "whole is greater than the parts" idea, it also frees up "/" for use in file names (e.g. "January/Feburary_Report.txt") and "\" for the use of non printing characters (e.g. "This_Is_A_Weird_Filename\007!").
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I thought of a better example for the use of \ to indicate nonprinting characters:
"MyFavoriteMicrosoftieIsGordon\007"
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
This is not propoganda. Most of us don't 'give a damn about what 95% of others do for a living'. The fact that 'I don't give a damn about how lawyers use tort law' doesn't mean that this would be a legitimate thing to keep a secret. If one of my children becomes an laywer, or if I get sued, I will suddenly 'give a damn' about free access to that information. Simply knowing that some kinds of information is open is empowering, even if I don't 'give a damn' about the field.
Think global, act loco
'Free software is far better on the dimensions of cost, power and quality.'
:-)
But it clearly isn't there yet in terms of grammar checkers
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
Man, I knew this poor guy would get lambasted for suggesting that poor Brazilians probably weren't going to spend their time hacking an OS. Come on, you know he's right. Note that the Media Lab didn't say much about it actually being easy to use or allowing people to do certain things. They were more concerned with source access. That's an absurd priority, and it should be obvious. So let's drop the self-righteous indulgence of our own politics and admit the truth:
A) Nobody owes you the inner workings of anything. Does Boeing owe a schematic to everybody who wants one just because 1 out of 1 million of its users might have an interest in self learning about aerospace? Furthermore, would your primary concern when choosing an airplane be open schematics, or its performance as an airplane? Open source has its place, but let's not become simplistic zealots about it.
B) Having the source code is nice, but to weigh that as the primary reason for choosing an OS is pure idealogy. The only important thing is that Brazilians are maximally empowered by the computers, not that the OS chosen fits our political assumptions. Empowered in this case probably means at a user level, not a hacking level. If MacOS X can be shown to be easier to use for their target audience and needs than Linux, the extra money might be worth it. If Linux is the best for the users, then even better.
The guy's original analogy was flawed, yes, but there is enough truth to it that writing him off with smug platitudes about the Future of the Children is really ridiculous.
Listening to the Media Lab's opinion on an accessible OS for lay people is like asking NASA for advice on bicycles. How's that for a bad analogy?
-Jonathan
Or more probably, given the lack of opportunities start a defacing group like the Crime Boyz, write hacking tools like Senna Spy, or just rob banks like the Mafia do Cartão.
Seriously there are quite a few talented people here in Brasil, and most of them aren't black hats. Any incentive to help lower the costs of digital inclusion will certainly have long term benefits. With the high prices of (legitimate)* commercial software and development packages, especially in light of the low per-capita income, using a free alternative is the obvious choice. Reducing the absurd import duties on computer equipment would probably be another good step.***pirate copies are widely available in urban centres for R$5 or so
**aside from grey market importers & Paraguay prices of equipment here are almost double US price (has been getting better lately)
Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
BS! I learned everything about Windows programming from a very young age by reading the documentation and examining the headers in the Platform SDK and didn't need to look at the source and still produce quality components. The documentation coming from Microsoft is far better than what I typically found for *nix.
How many devs actually look through all the QT source when developing KDE apps or the Qtk source for GNOME? Documentation exists for a reason and if you can't understand that then how much better will the actual source be?
Microsoft is running a company and should not be expected to open everything up just because people want in. My question to the /. community is why - if you hate "M$" so much - do you want to see the source?
Who modded parent insightful?
Please, people, parent is FUNNY. Or do you really think that this MIT professor said bulshit?
Rethinking email
"I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some shit, Zed. She's about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I'd say she's up to something."
First thing I thought of.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Ouch. I was going to write exactly that.
Also of course learning to program is also easier (everything is already installed or on the installation media) while you have to pay big bucks to do programming the Microsoft-way. (Yeah, I know, you can download and install python, perl and most others on Windows, too. But what's the point of running Windows then?)
But forget all the above, if you want the most important advantage of openness is:
With Linux you don't have to be afraid that your single vendor stops providing rebates or the special version.
There is no need to order the sequence of social advances. Free software won't fix a lot of problems, but that's okay. We can all do multiple things simultaneously, and giving people the freedoms of free software is one social advance more people need.
Digital Citizen
Couldn't have said it better!
Oh please. Less than 100 braziLLians (sic) would benefit from the openness angle of Linux? Conectiva(ops, Mandrake now I guess) alone has probably more employees than that. WindowMaker was developed by a brazilian, like GoboLinux and the LUA scripting language. Sorry guys, you may be not happy to hear, but most of the 170M brazilians do not live in the Amazon Rainforest.
And BTW, Marcelo Tosatti does not work for Conectiva anymore. He is working at Cyclades.
http://www.cyclades.com/pressroom/1085486400
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
> ... flush the whole govt down the drain and put a new one in the next day.
That sounds like a good start.
What a long, strange trip it's been.
Linux actually kicks in where M$ has tracked down ever smaller business to squeeze the lucre out of them. Windows continues to be free for most living beyond the reach of the dollar economy.
A Brazilian gov't ministry will be paying around 4 minimum monthly wages (R$600) for an M$ Office license - the equivalent of US$5000 !!!!!!!!!!!
Time to get real with software pricing.
DK