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PlayStation 3 Press Conference Tonight
The official unveiling of the PlayStation 3 is set to happen tonight, with folks such as the Guardian Gamesblog, Kotaku, and GamesAreFun live blogging the event as it happens. From the Guardian post: "The sign on the way into the Sony Press Conference is big - Wi-Fi access will be only available after the event. They lied - a quick wireless search has found me some access and now I'm on. The clock says 1.00pm but my body says 9pm. By the time Microsoft unveils the 360 again tonight I'll be ready for my cornflakes."
I wish I could see the future that clearly.
(Score: +1, Stereotypes Xbox Users as "Frat Boys")
(Score: +1, Pluralizes "Xbox" as "Xboxen")
(Score: +1, Connects MTV-watching with Xbox-owning)
(Score: +1, Spins "Better Graphics" Into a Negative)
Congratulations! +5!
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the PlayStation3 [...] will absolutely crush Microsoft's empty offerings of "better graphics = better games"
Does the PS3 promise anything different? I know Nintendo is claiming graphics won't cut it but Sony's marketing seems to be mostly focussed at Skynet/Cell structures and Toystory in realtime. Would them kicking MS's ass really make a difference on that issue?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
xbox is powerpc, a well known arcitechture, the PS3 is cell, and heavily vectorized, an unknown architecture. Sony consoles (PS1 PS2 PSP) have always been the most difficult to develop for.
Oh and Cell is a bunch of fluff. I bet you believed Sony when they said the PS2 would have movie quality graphics.
Sony exclusives? What Sony exclusives?
Third parties aren't forced to stay with one manufacturer, if they decide MS doesn't bully them as much and lets them make more money they'll jump ship before Sony even knows what's happening. Look at the SNES->PS1 transition, everyone ran away from Nintendo in a way noone would have imagined during the SNES generation.
My hunch says the Cell will be even more of a nightmare than the XB360's hardware. Sony claims the compiler will work around that but when you don't know the memory latencies since you're not sure what's stored on which Cell and which Cell is going to run your code you'll have to plan for a worst case scenario. Never mind debugging.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Congratulations! +5!
...hey a perfect troll. Now where did i put that "Do Not Feed" sign?
"Oh, dear. She's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot. Well, that's love for you." - Professor Farnsworth
Welcome teamxbox readers!
Sorry clown you're not in xbox fantasy land anymore. Your homework assignment for being such a retarded xbox fanboy is to go to your local game store and sit and ponder WHERE THE FUCK DID THOSE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of Sony titles come from.
Are there army's of geniuses out there in secret underground bases cranking out Sony titles,
or,
are you just a fucking dunce with a big ugly box with no games sitting in your living-room?
well if you watch www.own-age.com movies... it's on par.
John Walsh once found me while looking for some other kid. He was not amused.
Y'know, if being hard to program for is a serious issue, then Sony are fucked. Talk to any game developer - three cores is more work, but at least they're symmetrical and have real random access to memory via a cache. The Cell has only one general purpose core, and you have to explicitly shuttle data to and from the embedded memory on the other processing elements, which is hugely annoying. Sure, it's fine for obvious streaming applications like video decoding, but definitely more problematic for other work. Nobody in their right mind thinks the next Playstation is going to be anything but much more difficult to work with than Xbox 360.
Of course, maybe that doesn't matter. After all, the PS2 is generally considered to be the hardest of the current generation to work with, and yet it's still the market leader by a comfortable margin.
Bottom line is that it's all going to come down to having the best games at the right time, and a superior marketing plan. The hardware is almost irrelevant.
It's funny how the kotaku's brian got RSVP'd into the press conference, but, Joel from gizmodo got barred from entering. :)
:)
Oh well, I think engadget's a better blog then gizmodo anyway
This argument has been done again and again and again and again.
However, I wish to reiterate the following:
Nintendo's Focus!=Graphics
Focus on Graphics!=Good
therefore
Nintendo=Good (i.e. bettar than M$ capitalist faggs omg)
Hurrah for flawed logic. It's what's keeping most business afloat these days.
"the PS3 is cell, and heavily vectorized, an unknown architecture." ... systems but never 3 cpu, or 5 cpu systems. I have to wonder if one of the PPC cores is dedicated to some type of special task.
Cell is also PowerPC and vectorized architectures are actually pretty common. MMX, SSE, AltaVec, Cray supercomputers...
The three cores in the Xbox 360 kind of bug me. For some reason I think SMP should go up by powers of 2. I mean I have seen 2 cpu, 4 cpu, 8 cpu, 16cpu, 32 cpu
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
So far in this PS3 topic, the base comments are: 1) a prayer for XBox 360's demise, 2) a statement that Sony's bragfest will be "quite a refreshing change from the endless hype" for the 360, and 3) speculation that developers will flock to Sony's 8 Cell vector processors because XBox 360's three PowerPC cores will be too hard to develop for. Oh, and now someone is piping in with typos a-plenty voicing excitement on what will surely be an immensely informative session about this console that is likely at least a year from release.
Granted, there have been swift and thorough rebuttals to most of these, but they are posted alongside further MS bashing from others. The MTV special will be drawing fire for months, I'm thinking. Because, you know, a hilariously pandering noninformative show intended to appeal to an audience whose intelligence they (hopefully) underestimated certainly has the same exact intent as an event aimed at the gaming media. There was a video released on OurColony the same day that provides much more information about the functionality that I hope they can deliver.
And before I'm branded as a Microsoft fanboy/apologist/astroturfer, I own all three current consoles and the current crop of portables. I've found reasons to enjoy all of them. XBox 360 is the next-gen console we know most about so far, and some of what we do know is impressive, like the cohesive Internet experience that it seems that the new Live can offer.
Honor Among Slackers. A veri
I remember when the original Xbox came out. There was a lot of talk about how hard it was to program for the PS2, and as soon as the Xbox closed the sales gap, a lot of developers were going to drop the PS2 and develop for the Xbox exclusively. First, game developers are going to develop for whatever platform is going to line their wallets with fat amounts of cash. The Sega Saturn's well publicized development difficulties were not the reason that developers dropped them. The problem was that Sega of America screwed up every single aspect of marketing the machine, didn't distribute it properly, and overpriced it at launch. The Saturn outsold the PSX in Japan until they prematurely announced the launch of the Dreamcast. If they had supported the Saturn longer, and waited another year on the Dreamcast, the console wars would have been a three-way battle between Sony, Nintendo, and Sega. Microsoft wouldn't have even tried entering the market as a fourth player. Second, good coders learn their way around the system, and learn how to develop for a platform, even if it is problematic at first. Also, there are always companies that provide middleware for a system, taking care of lots of the nuts and bolts portions of the development process. Naughty Dog (creators of Crash Bandicoot and Jak & Daxter) made some good coin as providers of middleware for other developers. They had bright people who understood the PS2's complex architecture, and they were able to ease the development process for other game makers (for a fee!). The console that "wins" the console wars will be the one that targets all markets, makes quality games, and offers a good value for the money.
That's very well said. They terminated the Saturn so prematurely, games were still on sale for $49.99 in stores.
About the programming. I have NEVER seen all developers universally agreeing on 1 language being the easiest. I just don't believe all 100% of the developers feel the Xbox SDK was the preferred one.
I never said that. Nintendo has its own share of serious problems -- mainly their prolonged anachronistic means of doing business -- which is what's keeping them back in the leaderboards.
I don't know...maybe it's just the nostalgic NES-playing boy in me, but new Nintendo console unveilings are always kind of magical, because it feels like Nintendo really has something amazing up their sleeves. Of course, that something hasn't been done since Super Mario 64 debuted alongside the N64 back in 1996.
I also bought a GameCube on launch day after drooling over Rogue Leader, Smash Bros: Melee, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, and the prospect of online Mario Kart. Ultimately every Nintendo-produced GCN title I played was underwhelming, as they all felt like retreadings of previous titles with beefier graphics. Sometimes Nintendo came up with a hardware peripheral to go along with a game, but in the end those were just short-lived gimmicks (*cough*DS*cough*).
But with all the hype that they've been giving the Revolution over the past couple of years, especially with such an ambitious codename, I have a hunch that this time they reall will have something that will blow everyone's socks off. I'm just crossing my fingers.
a company dumping PS2 ports on to the xbox. EA?
The info will come out quicker. It is taking forever for anything to come out. Engadget is doing a good job though.
Uhh, GTAs (at least at first), a lot of RPGs like Final Fantasy (though they did do FF:TA for GBA and FFC for GC), Katamari Damacy, etc. There are a lot of solid exclusive games for all the consoles. I don't see what you are freaking out about.
Then you make your next statement based on utter bs supposition. Who really knows how hard it will be to program until the dev kits come out. If the dev kits abstract ebough of the lower level away, then it might not even be notciable to the programmers.
Quite frankly, I don't care who comes out "on top". As long as they all have quality consoles with quality games, I will get them all (eventually) like I did with the current generation. Let go of your bias and just have fun playing games.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
I guess I'll wait an hour, then read about the console that I'll be buying in 2007 sometime after the price drops...
Damn I hate being a news junkie. I really just want to look away and read all about it tomorrow, but I just can't help adding my requests to the masses bringing these servers to their knees. Must... have... PS3 specs!! Damn, I feel so pathetic... my information lust is only made so much more pathetic by the fact that, whatever the news, not only can I not buy it any time soon, but I actively don't plan to buy it for at least another couple of years... sigh... I just want to know.
Damn PR. It works.
Sony also confirmed the PlayStation 3, will use Blu-Ray discs as its media format. The discs can hold up to six times as much data as current-generation DVDs. It will also support CR-ROM, CDR+W, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R formats. It also confirmed the machine would be backward-compatible all the way to the original PlayStation. It will also have slots for Memory Stick Duo, a SD slot, and a compact flash memory slot. It will also sport a slot for a detachable 2.5 inch HDD somewhat similar the Xbox 360's.
Sexy
Out of the box, the PS3 will have the capability to support seven Bluetooth controllers. It will also have six USB slots for peripherals--four up front and two in the back. Sony also laid out the technical specs of the device. The PlayStation 3 will feature the much-vaunted Cell processor, which will run at 3.2 Ghz, giving the whole system 2.18 teraflops of overall performance. It will sport 256mb XDR main RAM at 3.2 Ghz, and have 256MB of GDDR VRAM at 700mhz.
Seven controllers?!
Here is a Gamespot link that is being updated frequently tonight: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_61246 81.html
For all the noise I've heard about the difficult of programming for these systems, we really won't know the results until the boxes are out and the games start flowing. The original XBox had an obvious benefit in this regard as it was essentially a PC, but that advantage won't exist this time.
So, who knows. My guess would be that the XBox will be easier because Microsoft has a lot of experience in development tools. But who knows, it may be the sort of thing where it's easier on Xbox, but a skilled programmer can get more out of the PS3. But I guarantee that right now only programmers bound by a bunch of NDA's have any idea.
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_61246 81.html
mem card slots, 7 bluetooth controllers, 2.18(!) teraflops processing power, 1080p rez
wowzer..
FUNK!
http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/000988.ht
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Full set of PS3 Pics: Playstation 3 Pics
Is it just me, or is that a slot-loading drive?
So perhaps this implementation will lead to lag?
Go Gusties
From FirstAdopter.com
AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Two HDMI out ports? If the PS3 can drive two displays, that would explain the support for the seven bluetooth controllers. I wonder what kind of performance hit that would mean, at 1080p x2
PS3: lanparty in a box!
and remember that it is 7 devices, not necesarly 'controllers'. Your not gunna get a 7 way split screen...i hope :-P
Here is a cut and paste from the Gamespot article:
Sony also confirmed the PlayStation 3, will use Blu-Ray discs as its media format. The discs can hold up to six times as much data as current-generation DVDs. It will also support CR-ROM, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R formats. It also confirmed the machine would be backward-compatible all the way to the original PlayStation. It will also have slots for Memory Stick Duo, a SD slot, and a compact flash memory slot. It will also sport a slot for a detachable 2.5 inch HDD somewhat similar the Xbox 360's.
Out of the box, the PS3 will have the capability to support seven Bluetooth controllers. It will also have six USB slots for peripherals--four up front and two in the back.
Sony also laid out the technical specs of the device. The PlayStation 3 will feature the much-vaunted Cell processor, which will run at 3.2 Ghz, giving the whole system 2.18 teraflops of overall performance. It will sport 256mb XDR main RAM at 3.2 Ghz, and have 256MB of GDDR VRAM at 700mhz.
Sony also unveiled the PS3's graphics chip, the RSX "Reality Synthesizer" based on Nvidia technology. The GPU will be capable of 128bit pixel precision, 1080p resolution, some of the highest HD resolution around. The RSX also has 512mb of graphics render memory and is capable of 100 billion shader operations and 51 billion dot products per second. It also has over 300 million transistors, larger than any processor available commercially today. It will be manufactured using the 90nm process with 8 layers of metal. The RSX is more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards, which would cost roughly $1000 total if bought today.
Pretty damned impressive.
We'll all be very curious to see what the price point for this sucker is like...
Makes you think about the two video out ports in the back. ;) I thought one was for normal TV, the other for HDTV but maybe...
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Is it just me or is the font that says PLAYSTATION 3 on the side same as the one used for the Spider-Man movie? The fact that they're both from Sony makes it seem more than just coincidence, even though it probably is.
check this out "http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Jun/bga2004 0712025947.htm"
Is anyone else disgusted by the new boomerang controller design? It looks very uncomfortable compared to the Dual Shock -- the D-Pad is slightly angled, and the shoulder buttons are very close together. Granted, I don't know how it feels, but I wonder why Sony changed the design that we've been using for a decade...
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but are those _three_ Ethernet ports on the back?
The PS3 will have 512MB, but it's split between the main processors and the graphics processor, it seems.
" The thing that's alien about the Cell tech is that the SPU's can't access main memory. They have their own private address space of a tiny chunk of embedded memory attached to each SPU, and the programmer has to write code to move data in and out of this memory via DMA."
But unless you happen to have a Cell workstation you have no idea how hard it is to program the Cell.
A lot will depend on the compilers and tools. For all I know it will be totally transparent to the programmer.
Most programmers working on xBox 360 and PS3 will not be coding in assembly.
Maybe Nintendo just to be really whacked out will instead of using vector cells will have a huge bunch of FPGAs so that the PowerPC core will have x programmer definable hardware accelerators. Since Sony is going for Cells, Microsoft for SMP, what else is left for Nintendo?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
However, Sweeney's words were only the beginning. Later, Sony trotted out a whole host of publishers that are backing the PlayStation 3. And in the process, it confirmed several games for the console. Hideo Kojima introduced Konami's Metal Gear Solid 4, Capcom showed off Devil May Cry 4, Namco unveiled Tekken 6, Polyphony Digital trotted out a fifth Gran Turismo, SCEE showed off the next Killzone, and Rockstar Games mentioned that a Grand Theft Auto would be released for the console. [gamespot.com] Wow, lots of sequels, eh?
From here, the PS3 looks like the most high tech George Foreman Grill in history.
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
a little more blunt than I would've been, but after seeing the information about the PS3 it's really true.
I know that the quality of games will end up being the real factor, but given Sony's track record I wouldn't expect anything but a good number of solid games. Plus the backwards compatibility will mean that the console will launch with a large number of great games anyways. I didn't pick up one of the current generation consoles (ps2, xbox) but now that I have a little more free time I think that I'll be getting one of these and from what I see my choice will be the PS3. Not only does it look to be the most powerful, but I'll be able to catch up on all of those PS2 games that I missed.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
what else is left for Nintendo
All of Nintendo's consoles will network into one huge super-AI brain. It will give each gamer the computational power of millions of consoles but with a sentient opponent that can learn from all the gamers to perfect its tactics. Gamers can expect no two games to play the same, and the AI is programmed to learn each player's patterns to ensure the right amount of difficulty.
It is predicted the AI will learn so much that it will then be used to command the world's economies with perfection by 2025, meaning it will take less than a century to achieve Issac Asimov's vision.
If the next generation is like the current one...I'll buy the Nintendo system for the exclusives and for the unique games. I'll play half the PS3 games that look interesting, and 90% of the XBox 360 games that look interesting, on PC. I'll consider buying a PS3 to catch up on all the games I've missed from the PS1 and PS2, but by that time the PS4 will be announced and I'll just keep waiting for that.
Is it just me or do they have better spinsters than engineers over at Sony Computer Entertainment?
I'm sorry for the trollish opening, but the thing that really chafes my balls about the hype surrounding the Playstation3 can be boiled down to this:
The PS2 was purported to have "Hollywood-style" graphics capabilities.
Anyone remember the line about the PS2 being able to render Toy Story in real-time? I do - it was such a boldfaced lie. Dreamcast had better graphics than the second-gen Playstation. and it was older! Hell, Super Nintendo had better graphics than Sony's first offering... and again, it was older, too.
I can't believe no one has pointed out the obvious that this pretty much cements Blu-Ray as the next generation DVD standard (I know this has been stated in previous /. posts about the PS3 though). This will get BluRay into millions of homes and then Toshiba won't be able to compete. This is a good thing. BluRay is much better than HD-DVD and will have a longer life-cycle.
According to the Gamespot coverage:
xbox is powerpc, a well known arcitechture, the PS3 is cell, and heavily vectorized, an unknown architecture.
I was under the impression that all three of the next gen consoles are going to using CPUs that are either PPC or derived from the PPC.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
Nintendo knows where to put the performance, especially since Microsoft launches earlier and Sony designs its systems around marketing buzzwords (No, super computers are NOT meant for gaming). Besides, these levels of technology are more limited by what technology actually can produce rather than what you are willing to pay for.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I thought it was PlayStation 2*pi...
In short: XBox 360 will have 3 PPC cores, PS3 will have 1 PPC core and 8 Cell cores where most of the work would be done by the Cell cores.
The PS3 is expected to be better at "streaming" processes, typical multimedia stuff such as graphics and sound processing. The XBox 360 will likely be faster at non-streaming processes such as physics and AI code. These 4 are the most processor-intensive tasks in a game with physics and AI the biggest growth areas.
Only time will tell which will be the fastest architecture overall. My personal believe is that PS3 will win since it shouldn't be too hard to stream physics and AI as well, leaving the XBox 360 with no meaningful areas in which to excel.
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http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=5833&typ e=mov - kill zone, on the ps3, in-game/real-time apparently
Nope, one Cell processor with 8 SPUs (perhaps you got the terminology confused?). If it was 8 Cells you'd see them boast 64 vector processor units.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I thought the Xbox360 cores did "in-order execution". If this is the truth from what I read about in order execution that means no SMT. Or am I not understanding something?
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
"Talk to any game developer - three cores is more work, but at least they're symmetrical "
I thought the three cores in the 360 processor did "in order execution". From what I am reading supposedly this mean no SMT.
Is there any place to get good info about what exactly the implications of the design MS has chones mean?
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.