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eBay sellers Told to Include GST
noisymime writes "The Age is running a story on how The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has requested eBay Australia to enforce the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions. Previously this was recommended but not a requirement. Is this reasonable protection for buyers or simply a frustration for everyone? What about all the other sales and auction sites available to Australians?" Moreover, how will this apply to other countries with GSTs - or sales tax?
Are we going to have to start charging tax on purchases at our Yard/Tag/Garage sales?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Methinks that the international nature of the /. audience needs to be considered before posting new items. Am I the only one who doesn't know what this is? Probably not.
Specialization is for insects. -Heinlein
Chances are that most stuff on eBay in Australia was purchased in Australia and therefore GST would have already been paid for on the item.
So why should anyone pay GST on second hand goods?
"Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
Before all the indignant venting begins, please allow me to suggest that you take a moment to read the article.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
It's up to any local government to regulate the behavior of local companies. This extends even to the Internet.
Normally it'd just be a matter of saying "Route around damage" and using an auction site in another country. However, as Australia is actually disconnected from every other country, it is not such a simple matter. By attempting to bypass the tax, the buyer would have to pay for overseas shipping and customs charges which may actually end up being more than the tax itself.
Seems that the Oz government has found a nice source of revenue. Not that they weren't entitled to the money before (all transactions should be taxed, even internet ones), but that it was easy to hide these transactions on the Web.
The GST inclusion on EBay autions is only for people required to be registered for GST. IE: Businesses earning more than 50,000 AUD per annum based in Australia using the Auction site as means of selling. To clarify the issue as to weather or not GST can be added to the final auction price eBay sent out this email to ensure that all people are aware that for goods being sold on eBay those who are required to pay GST include it in the item total/starting price/reserve and not to add it at the end of the aution. Nothing to see here move along...
was that you paid GST on new items, but not on second hand items. I may be totaly wrong, as I'm not a tax expert, but the thinking was that it was not right for something to have tax paid on it again and again and again.
The interesting thing would be buying something interenationally, where you normally are exempt from local sales taxes. Not sure how that would be played out
Then again, being fair isn't really the role of the taxman.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
Or at least have an option so you can display search results as total price including postage.
I'm so sick of seeing "bargains" on ebay which are $1 with $16 postage.
Personally i'd love it if they had a filter for "Items which start at 1c with no reserve" so that i can filter out all the businesses who simply retail on ebay.
It has nothing to do with making people charge a tax with their auctions, it's simply a measure to stop people grabbing an extra 10% under the guise of a tax where they may not have actually needed to collect GST.
In Australia, assuming a good being sold is subject to the GST, the seller has to remit one eleventh of the sale price to the government if the buyer is within Australia (assuming the seller is a business; I'm ignoring individual, once-off sales.)
...
... this is just one example.
The problem comes if the buyer is international -- eg, the US. In this case, it counts as an export, and is exempt from GST. This means that a bid of (for example) $105 by an international buyer is worth more to the seller than a domestic bid of $110.
It means that the seller might not get the best price for his goods. Maybe a better deal would be to say to international bidders, "If you win, you pay 10/11ths of what you actually bid" -- but that's another source of confusion
GST law has all sorts of nightmares embedded in it in Australia
If the seller suddenly starts charging 10% more because of this, then it's only fair that it is forced to be in the advertised price.
:-)
If you are a commercial entity and need to charge GST, you should be so fair to show it in the price. And if you (or some rotten apples) don't but charge it later anyway, then they all have to suffer for it.
If you are a simple garage saler, then it doesn't affect you.
Very simple, I would even call it common sense
bash$
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
I used to have to charge GST, but if I remember correctly, you only have to do that if your sales of goods or services exceed a certain amount per fiscal year...
So unless you operate a so-called eBay store in Canada that sells goods to other Canadians, I don't think it would generally affect most people.
Was I the only on who read this and thought at first that they were talking about including the local time?
It makes perfect sense to include all taxes in the price of goods rather than to tack them on after you have agreed to buy something. Ebay users who failed to put the tax odd on the sale price, instead choosing to add it when the punter went to pay clearly got more hits from doing it this way, much to the chagrin of the 'honest' sellers. I know that I always search for items on eBay by the price primarily and by the rating secondarily.
What about countries like Canada that have 15% tax? PST (Provincial Sales Tax) at 8% (Ontario, for example) AND GST (Goods and Services Tax) at 7%?
Would eBay Canada start charging me 15% on top of everything I buy?
All this means is that if you are going to involve GST, it has to be part of the final auction price, rather than added to it after the auction ends. And this is good. Adding it on afterwards (unless it is clearly stated on the auction page) is deceptive. ebay received many complaints about this, so they are doing something about it.
Even regular merchants in Australia need to advertise prices **WITH** GST included. I've also lived in Canada and the U.S., and I have to tell you it's nice to buy something and pay the price on the sticker.... not up to 15% more once they punch it into the register and the tax gets calculated.
This warning came from the fact that commercial merchants (of which there are millions) on ebay were advertising without GST, and then adding it on to the final price after the auction when over. Thats pretty misleading from where I stand and perfectly reasonably. This will have no impact on the average Joe because he isn't required to charge GST.
Australia ... inclusion ... GST ... sales/auctions.... taxes?
Yes. You are the only one who read the summary and didn't figure out it involved taxes in Australia.
Goods and ServicesTax - it is a 10% consumption tax.
This was a dumb article to post on Slashdot - all it is about is the ACCC making sure that consumers don't get ripped off by businesses that eBay to sell things.
Only individuals who have a registered Australian Business Number (ABN) AND who have registered to charge GST (and thus report on quarterly business activity and pay the GST to the tax office) are required (or allowed) to collect the GST. A business is only required to register for the GST if their turnover is inexcess of AUD$50k/year. An ABN holder who turns over less than AUD$50k/year can optionally register for the GST but they don't have to - and it is not legal to force them to do so.
eBay are only being ordered to enforce those WHO ARE registered for the GST to include it in the final sale price. If you are not registered for the GST (or if you're selling a personal item), these changes do not apply to you.
This is to combat deception where a seller would use the GST-exclusive price to outshine their competitors and then whack the GST on the top when payment is due. This is a result of where all prices quoted in Australia must already include the GST by law.
The point of TFA is that buyers couldn't tell what the price of any article was because some sellers would include tax and some wouldn't. Now all must. Thus it is an issue of fairness.
As for the effect on buyers outside of Australia, most countries have a method for exempt persons to either get their GST back after the fact or avoid (with paperwork) paying it in the first place. In Australia for instance exports are considered GST free. Would a sale on eBay be considered an export?
Ok let's keep using acronyms and let people guess what they mean.. Both the article and the summary do not expand what GST is, had to read through the comments.
OK, I'll karma whore...
The GST stands for Goods and Services Tax. Basically, the price of anything you buy or pay for in Australia has to include an extra 10%, which the seller then has to give to the tax office. There are a few exceptions, most notably unprocessed food like fruit and vegetables.
Goods and Services Tax. It's 10% -- eg, if something costs $10 ex GST, it's $11 with GST. Legislation means that prices shown to consumers must be inclusive of GST (businesses can be given ex GST prices, since they can claim back the GST, so it's not a cost for them.)
... but if you eat in, you're charged GST.
It applies to most things. Major exemptions include fresh food (bread, fruit, milk, fruit juices, etc.) Services -- eg, restaurants -- have to pay it. So if you buy a take-away fruit juice, it's tax free
Generally, as a consumer, you just pay the stated price and let the business sort out what is and isn't exempt from the GST.
"Some eBay buyers reported that they had been charged an additional 10 per cent on top of their winning bid or 'Buy It Now' price without having been properly alerted beforehand of the additional charge".
Sounds like this requirement is a good idea.
As an Aussie, I remember once buying a shirt in a shop in California. When I got to the checkout, I was charged for state tax on top of the price that was on the ticket. I didn't complain, because I realised at the time that that's how things are done in California.
In Australia, however, it is universally assumed that advertised prices include all taxes. That's how things are done here. For an Australian website to advertise prices otherwise would be, IMHO, misleading.
Yes, there are going to be lots of items that don't attract GST, so fine GST should not be charged on them. And yes, people outside Australia don't have to pay any GST. Fine. The simple solution is to require any sales that are subject to GST to have a note alongside the price sayng "plus 10% GST to Australian shipping addresses" or something. Easy.
Cripes, how hard is this to figure out? And why should it matter to you other than that it is a sales tax?
I'm not Australian, but it's not hard to deduce:
GST = Goods and Services Tax.
I'll bet it's modelled on Canada's GST or Europe's VAT, so it's a value-added tax, applied to almost everything.
A true value-added tax should apply to re-sold items. Note however that this benefits the sellers and buyers not the gov't, as the seller should then recoup the GST they paid originally at purchase, which is presumably greater.
GST is Goods and Services Tax, and it is levied by the Commonwealth Government (the peak government that covers all of Australia) It is currently set at 10%, and it applies to all sales by a business that are not basic foods. By law, a business must advertise or set the sale price including GST. GST must not be added on afterwards.
GST only applies when you buy something from a business, not if two people just do a deal to buy something. For example, a yard sale would not attarct GST
The ACCC has a history as a champion of consumer rights, and generally takes the view that businesses should only advertise the final price for a product (including all charges, taxes etc) so that consumers can readily make price comparisons. The ACCC are pretty much the good guys in this situation.
GST = Goods and Services Tax
It was implemented in the late 90's at the Federal level as a way of standardising sales tax.
Previously, there was a sales tax of between 0% and 32% on all goods sold. This was simply standardised to be 10% on everything (well, nearly everything).
Some things got cheaper (from 25% tax down to 10%), somethings got more expensive (2% tax to 10% tax).
It's not as bad as some people make out, and it is compulsory to include the tax in any advertised price - so no surprises at the checkout.
It does not apply to second hand goods.
Most of the purhcases I make on Ebay are for new items.
Most of the high volume sellers on Ebay are selling new items. I'm willing to bet that a large portion of Ebay's volume is new items. It really is just another retail outlet - just like catalogs and other mail order stores.
Although, they may do things differently in Austrialia. Everything is upside down afterall.
"Exempt a value from being taxable on the parcel of land. Perhaps the highest average home price or whatever. Let us say that is $200k."
What part of the country are you living in? Where I live you'd be lucky to buy a doghouse for that much. I agree that the tax system needs to be overhauled but not at the expense of the rich. When you overtax the rich the rich find tax shelters overseas to hide their money. The middle class then picks up the slack and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay into a welfare state which does nothing to raise the standards of living for the poor and wean them off their current situation.
As some irrelevant extra information, in Canada GST is 7% (usually coupled with a provincial tax, which in Ontario is 8%, so the next consumption tax on a product is 15% at the till).
While originally they talked about making inclusive of the price, in the end absolutely no one does that. Thus, if you pick up something labeled $100, you'll pay $115 when you get to the till (to the irritation of many tourists. Tourists, as an aside, can get a full refund of any taxes they paid during their stay).
While I agree the retards that try schemes to jack the price suck, there are legit ones and often you can get a good deal. I bought a Colorimiter (device that measures the colour response of your monitor) new in box with full warantee for about $20 under what I could get it for off eBay. It was a store type thing, I mean they had like 10 of them for sale, in addition to tons of other items.
Doesn't apply to everything, but often you can save money this way. I always check when I'm buying some kind of professional tool that's suppirted directly through the manufacturer. If you have to send it back anyhow for service, might as well get it at the cheapest place that's legit.
Goods and Services Tax Currently set at 10%
Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
What's GST? (Yes I know how to use google, Goods and services tax, lame ass editors)
GST=Goods and Services Tax.
What is happening with eBay is that the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Comission) is starting to treat eBay "stores" like any other store, where the displayed price MUST include the GST component if most of your target audience Will Be Paying GST. In other words, if you only sell to companies (that can claim GST back), then there is no need to include GST. Everyday consumers will, so you have to include the GST in the price.
Also, like some people in NZ and Canada have already pointed out, you don't need to worry too much about that if your income is below a certain threshold (50K IIRC).
So, to summarise, this is A Good Thing. Nothing to see here, move along.
The costs and hassles of compliance with those taxes are passed on to businesses instead of consumers (although it is the consumer who ultimately pays).
For example, in Iowa, certain bank service charges are taxable (but not all of them!). A service charge on a savings account is not taxable, but a service charge on a checking account is. That's not too bad to start with, but it gets better...
If you were to wire some money from one bank to another, it will cost you a bit to do so. If you pay that fee from your checking account, it's taxable. If you pay it from your savings account, it's not.
Also, we have multiple rates in Iowa. The state rate is 5% (except for electricity or heating oil/gas where it's 2% or 3%). Except for those communities with the local option sales tax where the rate is and additional 1%. Except for those communities with the school option sales tax where the rate is an additional 1%.
Whenever fewer people pay a tax, it gets more complicated to comply and more expensive to enforce.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
has requested eBay Australia to enforce the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions.
As several people have pointed out, they are only enforcing the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions where it would otherwise be added. As many sellers on eBay do not have to pay GST, this is definitely not a straight out "all sales/auctions".
I'm sick of article summaries containing blatant misinformation like this. Is it too much to ask for the story submitter to have an adequate grasp of the facts?
And yes, I'm new here.
I'd be alright with that - you could by a nice acreage for less than that around here :)
But if he's talking about farmland, I'm curious if he would be talking about total price for each transaction, or by "unit" of land (each acre?). If it is the former, I would suspect that you'd see properties taking several transactions to change hands.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
But... But... that would tax the *rich*... You don't seriously believe that would fly given the current political climate?
Cynicism aside - you have a basically good idea here. The same progressive system you suggest for property taxes should apply to capital gains. Aside from that - keep it as simple as possible, close loopholes, get rid of exceptions, make the whole system transparent.
I guess the numbers you give are rather low, but that's just a feeling. But, as I said, good luck lobbying for a system like that... *that*...
This comment does not exist.
That's completely untrue.
The total GST paid is only 10% on top of the final value of the good.
If I as a business buy a widget for $11 from a supplier then:
-The GST component is $1 which the supplier sends to the tax man
-The supplier gets to keep $10.
-I note that I've paid $1 GST on purchases
If I then sell that widget to you for $33 dollars:
-The GST component is $3, but I have a credit for $1 from above so I send $2 to the taxman.
-I get to keep $31
The final sale price was $33. $3 (2 from me, 1 from my supplier) goes to the taxman which is 10% of the final non-gst amount. No matter how many times it is sold that remains true.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The GST is a flat 10% tax that applies to nearly every new item (ie. goods) or service supplied. It doesn't apply to some "basic" or "essential" items, such as food ingredients and medicines, although it does apply to prepared food.
GST does not apply to second-hand items, ie. the government receives GST only once for any given item.
Also, if I buy a new item, then use that item say as part of a manufacturing process of a bigger thing that I then sell, then I get a tax credit back so that the original item doesn't attract GST twice. But, I have to be registered as a GST supplier to claim this tax back.
IIRC, all GST is collected by the Federal government, but it gets distributed to the states and forms the backbone of their revenue sources. The states are prohibited from collecting income tax.
That's probably it in a nutshell.
If you are a business, then you have to play by the rules and you must know them. If you're a private seller, don't worry.
If goods are going across provincial borders then no pst (provincial sales tax) is payable. If you make less than 30k/year on your 'business', then no gst is payable.
The bottom line is that for most transactions in Canada, you can forget the taxes. Just deal with private individuals, not businesses.
> So, to summarise, this is A Good Thing.
Yes, couldn't agree more.
> Nothing to see here, move along.
Not so. This is a great example of something I wish more people would pay attention to, which is the need to normalise the application of regulations between the online and real worlds.
So many of the issues Slashdotters become upset about involve the creation of new, unnecessary laws or regulations to govern online affairs, when there are perfectly applicable existing rules, that may simply need a refresh to the language.
Anything that increases the remit of a worthwhile regulation rather than creating yet another new one should be pointed out and praised to the same extent we flame the Bad Things.
Small businesses could well have been burdened with a new tax code addendum created specifically to cover online merchants, with sub headings to cover whether the sale is via an aucton site, owner-operated online store, or third party operated online store.
So, it is teh win. A small one, yes, but that's no reason to let it go by unremarked.
The Australian government isnt forcing EBAY to charge tax, and it isnt forcing anyone to pay tax. All they are stating, is that IF the item being sold has a tax portion, that is must be INCLUDED in the bidding price.
Eg. under IT goods on ebay, many computer stores sell items, and they provide 'tax invoices' on the goods. However many also used to have a little 'note' in their payment section stating that the FINAL sale price was 'bid' price + 10% (GST).
This can be frustrating for bidders who have to look at all the 'fine print' trying to ensure that when they bid on a $1000 item + $20 freight they dont get charge $1122 for the sale.
DSLIP Web Design and Content Management Australia.
Methinks the parochial nature of Americans needs to be considered before posting new items. If it doesn't happen in my state, or at a pinch, any of the US States, I don't need to know what it is, don't care what it is, and will certainly not lift a finger to do the 5 seconds research it takes to find out. In fact nothing in the outside world matters one iota, so why are people posting this?????!!!!
For the life of me cannot see why eBay would require glutathione S transferases to be included with each auction. I suspect most bidders would already posses a number of isoforms.
I'm just saying.
Tax reform?
Taxation is theft.
Other than eliminating theft, how could you "reform" it? Have the robber say "Pretty please?" ?
All monies paid to the state should be 100% voluntary, no ifs ands or buts.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Take an example: I sold an item on ebay.com.au recently. I'm an Australian tax paying Australian citizen living in Australia, I used the services of the Australian eBay subsidiary to sell an item to another Australian citizen/resident/taxpayer, made the financial dealing in Australian dollars between Australian banks. Following the deal, eBay Australia sent me an invoice for services rendered, a fee in Australian dollars which they require to be paid to my choice of an Australian bank account or by mailing a cheque or money order to an Australian address.
So I ask for an Australian Tax Invoice in accordance with Australian law. It seemed a reasonable request to me.
Now, all of a sudden, eBay are dancing around alternating between calling themselves "eBay Inc.", an American company, and "eBay AG" (what is that, Swiss, or German or something). They won't answer communications about Australian tax, their 'support' monkeys just hit the 'random diversion' button and send off irrelevant "Thank-you for contacting eBay support, here's some information about... a Duck" type replies.
I've had it with the fockers, after this little carry on, I'm gonna start whingeing at the tax office and the consumer whassname!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Governments should just charge a fixed fee off everyone ... People who can't afford it can defer payment or something I don't know.
.. the payment should be equal for everyone.
Basically government is a service provider
I am not a script - and slashdot made me type ikggjdc to prove it.
It's ... READ THE [ahem] FRELLING ARTICLE!
otherwise known by it's tofla - RTFA!
Welcome to slashdot, how did you acquire such a low ID number?
No you are very wrong. You are only required to be registered for GST if you are using it as a form of income where it exceeds 50,000 AUD per annum.
Almost right. Not only do you need an ABN, everyone doing commercial transactions of any nature totalling over $10,000 per year must also register for VYN status and have completed GBRs in their possession.
Additionally, businesses and individuals earning more than 50,000 AUD must pay GST, NBR, and KBN liabilities while also maintaining their VYN requirements.
If you sell cars for a living (> 50,000 AUD), registration alone is insufficient unless you're filing through state-assisted EAPs. Unlike the IRS, the ATO is not the only organisation with taxing responsibilities. They must share their duties and fees with entities like the BHA (or BUA in some states) and taxpayers have to deal witheach organisation seperately in their annual TLAWTF reports.
the article says: "The modified policy only applies to eBay sellers who are required to be registered for GST," Mr Samuel said.
i don't know what that means over there, but in the USA you do not have to pay tax if you are selling your own stuff. if you are running an online store or something it is a different story. if you sell an old laptop or a pair of skis then you, in theory, already paid any required possible tax on the item and do not have to again. i think if the item went up in value then you are maybe supposed to pay tax on the increased amount of value.... but for individuals i don't know about that.
i guess the laws for vehicles are different too..... for some reason you have to pay a tax on the amount of the sale when you transfer the title (at least in PA we do).
all that being said i hope we don't get that kind of tax. as of right now i don't see George Bush or the Republicans pushing for it. they have been mostly against internet taxes hoping that SOME part of the economy will do well.
lemme explain something about goverment theevery... Seriously, the goal of a tax like this is pretty much always to tax every instance of trade.
Just have your credit card handy when you dial 911.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
This really is all much ado about nothing. Ebay requires you to list GST only if you are charging it. Not that you charge GST on everything. Ie, you can't falsely advertise your products as being 10/11ths of the price, which is already illegal here in Australia. If you're selling an old Mickey Mouse watch, and you don't do so for a living, then you don't need to list or charge GST. Basically, this is simply eBay.au codifying what's already law.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Am I the only person who was told back in high school English class to define an acronym the first time you use it? I'm guessing the S and T stand for Sales and Tax respectively, but what the heck is the G? Global? General? Great? Goofy?
And yes, I did RTFA, it doesn't say there either.
ZuluPad, the wiki notepad on crack
When you overtax the rich the rich find tax shelters overseas to hide their money.
As if they weren't already.
The hilarious thing are all the libertarians who insist they would be happy to use their money to help the less fortunate when all the government programs are removed along with the taxes, and then pull stuff like this rather than going for the charity tax exemption.
If the libertarians weren't worse liars than the republicans, I'd vote for them.
All monies paid to the state should be 100% voluntary, no ifs ands or buts.
All police responses to your house will be entirely voluntary. When you're being overrun by the neighborhood gangs since nobody bothered to pay up for educating the children, what are you going to do then?
Probably go "but, but, but..."
That, or buy lots of ammo, if you can make it out your front door.
Not sure what the average home price is in my state. I think it probably ranges in the hundreds of thousands.
Here's my idea for property tax reform.
1) Eliminate all lower levels of property taxation.
2) Have a state property tax.
3) You either exempt the state's average home value or you do it by county. It would be best to do it by each county to be fair cause standards and costs of living can vary widely.
4) So perhaps $200k is your county's average home value. If you own a $800k parcel (business or residential) in your county, then $600k of your property will be considered taxable.
5) Obviously the percentage rate will have to be raised.
6) 30% of the revenue should be kept at the state level.
7) 35% of the revenue should be redistributed among counties based on population.
8) 35% of the revenue should be redistributed among counties based on total assessment value.
The above idea might work out. Of course, some people would be scared. But if you own a million dollar home, you sell it, buy a cheaper house, perhaps at the average, stick the extra revenue in the bank and use that interest to live off of or supplement your income.
Tourists, as an aside, can get a full refund of any taxes they paid during their stay.
Not entirely. First, only the GST is refunded -- not other provincial taxes. Secondly, that's only the case for goods bought in a transaction totalling (before tax) $50 (IIRC) Canadian. Thirdly, no refund is given on services (eg: film processing.)
Yeah, my credit card when I dial 9-11 ...
... lol) versus 5-10-15 minutes for the Police to respond ... quite likely to just draw chalk outlines.
If it's for police, I'd rather handle the problem myself, with a gun. Certainly a heck of a lot faster response time: 1000 fps lead (feet, not frames
If it's for ambulance or fire, thats what insurance is for.
And yeah - I know you'll lecture me about how many people can't afford insurance. But thats only because the government interferes in the market. If we had true laisez-faire capitalism, the necesary insurance for these services would be dirt cheap.
There are plenty of ways to fund the necesary means for society to remain intact, without coerced payments. The real question is then: do we want a society run by voluntary methods, or with brute force? Taxation is brute force. Stop paying, and see men with guns show up at your door.
(BTW - whats up with this anti-bot bullshit?)
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Really, nothing to see here. Your grandma won't have to worry about GST when she sells her old stuff.
stubear, would it be overtaxing the rich to do this?
My state has three main sources of taxation. Sales tax, property tax, and the B&O tax. To add to the revenue, here is an idea I have. I'm not sure what it would statistically work out to be.
A special type of income tax that only affects you if your individual income exceeds like 5 times the state per capita income. Let us assume the state per capita income is $44k. So 5 times that would be $220k. We'd only tax the excess. If you earn $800k per year in my example, that means $580k would be taxable. I would suggest a simple 10% no-deductions tax. So in my example, $58k would be the tax revenue you'd have to pay. 10% of the excess isn't much at all. And trust me, if you earn that much individual income, you're financially well off and it won't hurt you.
This idea would have to be done on the honesty policy. As for the problem of tax shelters, I don't know. I guess if you get caught, perhaps the punishment could be not only to pay it back with interest, but a hefty prison term.
This shouldn't touch savings accounts sources of income, unless it's withdrawn from the account. (That is, interest collected isn't taxed if it stays inside the account.) In other words, the paychecks you receive and any other money that is written to you, like withdrawing $10,000 from an account, that would count as income.
...in Soviet Australia, GST includes eBay sellers!
Circumcision is child abuse.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Much as it has been described for Australia, the only people who need to worry about GST are those that are registered for GST and are selling the item from their registered entity - A company or self employed individual.
So - if you need to allow for GST on sales you already know about it - and if you don't it's not a concern.
GST only applies to sales with in NZ - Sales overseas are exempt.
This is all covered in the relevant documentation available from the IRD ird.govt.nz
In my idea, there is a problem I realized. The savings account issue.
Someone can put money into a savings account, and it can grow due to interest, or lose money if fees exceed the interest gained, or perhaps you let it grow and you spend money and it's pretty "unstable" in that respect.
Consider this. You buy a nice car for $80k. Depending, it might mature in value over the years if it is a classic. You then sell it for $100k later on.
Let us say when someone liquidates assets, that it needs to be considered as income. So if you withdraw $200k from a bank, that's income. If you sell your house for $800k, that's income. However, if you buy an asset, that shouldn't necessarily be considered income until it is turned into cash.
Will this above solve the problem?
That will be US$100,000.00 damages for stealing bread from the hard-working mouth of our deceased associate, Mr. George Beatle, with your flagrant piracy of his well-known lyrics.
'Cause I'm the lawyer-man, yeah, I'm the law-yer man, and you're working to pay me my fee.
If the vendor is in Australia they have to state GST inclusive.
It's really simple.
The IT industry in this country thought they could ignore the law when it first came in but even those thick skulls eventually realised they were breaking the law.
Incidentally I got some discounts around that time by demanding they stick by advertised prices (and pay the GST).
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
It's worse than that. Lets say you're a young professional out of school. This example is for New Zealand, but many others will be similar.
You earn a low-scale salary, and the govt takes 19.5% income tax (PAYE). Higher incomes attract higher taxation rates for those portions (33% and 39%). Also, you have a student loan, so they take an other 10% for that. So you get to take home 70.5% of your salary.
Then, everything you buy retail has 12.5% GST on it. So your dollars actually have only 87.5% of their value. You're getting 61.68% of your salary now. Many of your other purchases are taxed/levied additionally too. Petrol (Gas) being the most obvious one, and anything that's been imported has probably been taxed at least once as well.
Lets say you're saving some of what's left. Well, any interest you earn gets taxed at your income rate of 19.5%. Maybe you take another job to make ends meet? Well, that's got an additional 10% PAYE tax there, so you're down to 52.93% now, assuming you didn't jump into a higher threshhold...
Bastards.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Nice troll.
Isn't sale's tax, a tax on a business' profits, and not a tax on the consumer for buying stuff? And a business who's unwilling to "lose" profits just passes on the tax cost to the consumer? I'm willing to bet that's the way it is and people aren't aware that they, the consumers, are paying business' fair share of taxes (at least in the U.S.). Double-taxed!
One thing that scares the Australian government (and perhaps the US too) is the old idea of bartering. I remember when the GST was introduced here and a journalist asked our Treasurer about it - he squirmed.
In the Slashdot moderating system, humourless based offenses are considered especially heinous.
All police responses to your house will be entirely voluntary.
They allready are. No, really. Check it out for yourself. (If you're really curious.) Police have absolutely no legal responsibility to protect you or respond to any particular 911 call whatsoever.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Previously, there was a sales tax of between 0% and 32% on all goods sold. This was simply standardised to be 10% on everything (well, nearly everything).
Some things got cheaper (from 25% tax down to 10%), somethings got more expensive (2% tax to 10% tax).
You forgot to mention that a WET (Wine Equalisation Tax) was simultaneously introduced so that wine did not get cheaper with the change from (high) sales tax to (lower) GST.
It does not apply to second hand goods.
Yes, it does. You can even (in certain circumstances) claim input tax credits on goods for which GST was not originally paid.
You are in a maze of twisty, little passages, all alike...
if gst is the same thing as vat, every price which is not on b2b price lists has to include vat
so you always know how much you have to pay.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
This change is not going to affect the average ebay buyer or seller, only merchants that trade with a GST registered business.
If I sell the DVD player I won recently, I will not be required to add GST to the final price.
This change is good if anything, as those larger merchants just rip people off with fine print hidden charges.
One of the few sore points with the GST was software. It went from 0 to 10%.
The GST also got rid of the tax exemption crap we had to deal with on hardware. For engineers and project managers we could claim an exemption on the 22% tax. For secretaries and other office types we had to pay the full price. )With hidden 22% tax)
What got really odd was, IIRC, sound cards that had a significat "software component" averaged the tax down to 15%.
Now we just subtract the tax we paid to suppliers from the tax we take from customers and send whats left to the ATO.
THANKYOU!
/. readers might be in the same posistion. I kind of figured that Joe Average in Greenbay would simply flick past it. If it doesn't apply to you ignore it, don't whinge about it.
Sometimes I would do anything for mod points
This was exactly my thinking when I submitted the story! The change this article talks about is something that affected myself and I thought that other
The point isn't "gee whiz, they're making you charge an extra tax on what you sell on eBay", they're saying that if you are going to charge GST (=VAT value-added tax in britain) then you *have to include it in the purchase price advertised*.
In the UK, we have 17.5% VAT. It is incredibly annoying when people advertise the price ex VAT to conceal what they're charging, and hit a lower perceived price-point.
Similarly, in the UK you only have to "collect" (i.e. charge) VAT if your turnover is more than GBP50k/year, so it won't really affect private individuals.
In other words, this is a Good Thing (tm).
Here in the US, the IRS requires you to declare bartering and place a dollar amount on it so you can pay taxes on it. It's much more difficult to enforce like you said, but it seems they're trying to anyway.
Go to a resturant? Pay 10% extra. Go to movie? Pay 10% extra. etc.
What you'll have under that system is not a society but a bloodbath.
A private insurance won't stop fire in your house. However, firemen may do it.
A private insurance will just give you money if your child died in the fire.
And what if someone considers the item they are bartering to be worth like $0.01? Or are there laws against that type of stuff? Sorry, I'm not an expert on the tax code.
People need to also realise this; GST is liable for those who exceed $50,000 *HOWEVER* it also has to be a regular situation of buying and selling. For example, lets say over a period of 3 years, I see goods totally more than $50,000 on each occasion - THAT wouldn't be taxed as it was a private sale, a once off sale, and the money isn't being used as a regular form of income.
Second hand goods and exempt from GST as well, since the cost of administrating such piddly amounts of money would be outweigh any possible revenue they might generate clamping down on John Higgins and his local Cricket card swapping moonshining.
We have the same situation in New Zealand with GST, which is on everything (I feel sorry about Australian businesses and all the extra paper work required for the whats exempt and what isn't) - but like I said, there are exemptions.
The underlying this is this; if you use eBay as a way of making a regular income, aka, you're a business, *THEN* you have to pay GST on those sales *HOWEVER* if you're just Joe private seller, wanting to get rid of some stuff, then its all good.
they are only talking about ebay shops. and yes i can see the tax departments point on this one. every other shop must charge gst, why the fuck should ebay shops think they are allowed to get away with it?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Seriously, tax revenue should probably only go to things like infrastructure, education, emergency services, courts, and things that help the general public. Things like spending a million dollars on new lightposts (like the city to which I just moved did shortly before I moved here) is kind of a waste.
Where it gets tricky is when you have to define what "help the general public" means. For instance, what about small business grants? These produce jobs. What about government-funded programs? These produce jobs. It's not all that simple, to be sure, but there are some things that we can do by starting at the local level.
Just remember that, somewhere, all money eventually equates to man-hours of labor. Even being generous (in the US) at $30k per man-year, you can get an idea of how much things should cost and start to act accordingly.
But, the only way to get tax reform in any area is to be involved; that's the whole point of representative government. If you don't like the way your city / county is doing taxes, you're (probably) free to go to those meetings.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
More progressive, yet not complex, forms of taxation is what I would push for. Unfortunately, there isn't really a town meeting concept for at the state level, but thankfully I can easily e-mail legislators.
Here's a radical idea that would definately help everyone. Food is one thing everyone needs, yet not everyone can afford it. What we could do is provide each resident of the state with a special debit card, fill it with $50 per month (to be adjusted biennially to be proportional to the minimum wage). With the recipients being careful with their spending, this could very well prevent hunger. My idea expands on Washington State's Quest card thing for welfare recipients.
With 6.1 million residents in my state, I multiply by 12 months at $50 each to get $3,660,000,000 in needed annual revenue. It would be best to make a progressive tax system to get this revenue, otherwise if not, it would require about a 4 cent increase in sales tax. But consider a family of four would be receiving a household total of $200 per month. With sales tax by the way, at 4 cents, I guess that means someone would have to spend more than $15,000 on taxable items to have a net loss. But that's a single individual, so a family of four would have to spend more than $60k on taxable items per year to have a net loss. This is in comparison to the new tax I mentioned.
Any thoughts on that idea? By the way, lightposts would be a safety issue, but whether or not it would make a diffence is the key question.
As if the WHO-O-O-O-O-OLE world knows what "GST" stands for like it's common knowledge. I never even heard the abr. until this /. article.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
No, no.
See, when I say insurance will pay for necesary services, I mean that insurance will pay for firemen, equipment, training, and so forth to be able to fight the fire.
Insurance is a free market way to spread or socialize risk. It would perform far, far better than the government which steals the money and then wastes large portions of it.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
It about making Ebay prices transparent & fair for all.
Certain commercial sellers quote ex GST and this can be confusing for buyers & improve their ebay search ranking.
It would perform far, far better than the government which steals the money and then wastes large portions of it.
Aiming to give money to shareholders, as private companies do instead of distributing money to their employees, is another way to steal the money and then waste large portions of it.
The following reply is to the above two posts.
About insurance paying for firemen, well, will that cover their whole annual salary or what? Cause right now I think it's a good idea to pay for them to be "ready" or "on alert" all year round to fight fires. And what about forest fires, public land? (I think it depends on method of taxation whether it's truly a good idea or not.)
What happens when the employees do hold shares of the company? The company gives the employees some of the shares. (Of course, giving employees shares in place of retirement options is obviously a horrible idea.)
It wasn't just buyers that were being adversely affected by the GST.
Sellers who advertised a GST-inclusive price were worse off than those (unfairly) advertising the same product without the GST included in the advertised price (this would affect mainly BuyItNow items).
Now all sellers are on an even playing field and can compete on the real price of the item.
Frankly, this change by eBay is just common sense and benefits everyone, I don't know what all the fuss is about.
I'm a perfectionist but I'm trying to cut back.
Never underestimate the power of guilt and pity on the rich... But when taxes take the sting out of guilt and pity, then you will tend to see less giving.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Most people wouldn't bother below $50, however note that PST, at least in Ontario, is also refunded.
- 03e.pdf
http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/E/pbg/gf/gst176/gst176
Aiming to give money to shareholders, as private companies do instead of distributing money to their employees, is another way to steal the money and then waste large portions of it.
More anti business tripe from someone who doesn't seem to have a grasp on business.
If I, as a consumer of this type of fire insurance in the future I advocate, see that a company charges X for service package Y, and another company charges 1.05X for service package Y, then I'm going to go with the first company.
Why do I go with this company? Because all other things being equal, they are the best value for my money spent. IOW, I the consumer am maximizing my profit.
So if the first company can survive better, and offer a better value, by dividing up monies to it's shareholders rather than it's employees, that is an indication it is not a waste of money from an economic standpoint.
You forget that profit goes both ways in a trade, and then go on to attack profit a company makes. But profit is by no means evil, nor is it waste. Profit is the incentive the company/entreprenuer has to bring a product to market in the first place. It is the very key to ensuring a rich variety of products and services. Because without profit, effectively NO SERVICES OR PRODUCTS would be offered on the market.
So profit is not waste, it is one of the key conditions of capitalism. You act as though it is evil, which is assinine in the extreme. Do you use money to buy things? EVERY time you do, you are profiting in some manner. Even under the barter system, trading with someone still implies profit - or you wouldn't trade.
So do you grow your own food? Sew your own clothes? Build your own house? Collect your own water?
Build your own computer?
Government has no inherent systemic method to oversee and prevent waste. In fact, it is quite the opposite: bureaucracy has a tendency to grow over time and to waste more tax money. Government officials LOVE to claim greater efficiencies, but this is all quite cynical PR. Doing even a modicum of study on this topic can reveal startling amounts of waste.
In short, the free market is the best way to ensure economic efficiency. The reasons for this are not so much the motives of the individual people, as it is the way the system as a whole interacts and works. (Not to say the motives of the people in a free market are wrong - nor to say they are right. This is a purely economic analysis.)
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Don't give Canada any ideas!
Bloody Aussies!
Firstly, it puts the responsibility of feeding people onto the government. (Whether or not you think that should be the government's responsibility is another issue entirely.)
Secondly, such food programs cannot guarantee that people will spend the money on food. I have friends that work in the inner city (Detroit) and people use their foodstamps to get food and necessities (toilet paper, soap, etc.) which they then take and trade for various vices. While this isn't what everyone does, it's probably higher than 10%. It appears that when people have no responsibility for providing their basic needs, they will abuse the system that provides them.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by an increase in sales tax of 4 cents - is that 4 cents on each dollar (which is pretty big) or 4 cents per capita...I'm just trying to clarify.
(I should have clarified on the lightposts - 2 designer lamps in the median every 75 yds for 3 miles on a 50mph 6-lane heavy-commercial boulevard was less a 'safety' issue than an aesthetics issue - especially since other lights were there previously.)
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Whooops, wrong link.
h ments/331162_Rsie_f0298.pdf
http://www.trd.fin.gov.on.ca/userfiles/page_attac
plus mandatory services charges, etc.
In Oz there isn't even tipping, meaning the quoted price is the price paid.
People should have it shoved in their face *every damn time they make a purchase* how much money the blood-sucking government leeches are taking from them.
Otherwise, it's *way* too easy for these kinds of taxes to become totally hidden from public scrutiny and awareness.
With income taxes, you are forced to be aware of them when you file, with registration fees, they are typically listed right there, etc., etc.
In the US, the same is true of sales taxes, by and large. The only exception I can think of is gas taxes, which are only sporadically posted, but I think that's evil too.
Yes, it's extra work for buyers, but that's part of democracy. If you stop *thinking* about what your government is doing, you stop having any true voice in it.
It's quite hilarious, isn't it, how the law doesn't say: All advertised prices must be followed by the notice "includes $xxx GST"?
Not.
the lot of 'em.
In Washington State I believe welfare recipients get debit cards that are like Quest, EBT, or something. They are bound not to abuse them, and are only allowed to spend them on food.
Right now, most food isn't taxed in my state. I believe... Fast food is taxed. Beverages with certain sugar content are taxed. And buying less than 12 donuts will get tax on them.
The state portion of sales tax is currently 6.5 cents per dollar, which the highest local tax being 8.9 cents per dollar I hear.
Most tangible items are taxed, and some services I think.
Goods and Services tax, if you sell second goods and you make more than $50k a year doing this then you have to charge GST
OH.....I thought you meant GSP? Never mind.
We can just as little afford to follow the doctrinaires of an extreme individualism as the doctrinaires of an extreme socialism. Individual initiative, so far from being discouraged, should be stimulated; and yet we should remember that, as society develops and grows more complex, we continually find that things which once it was desirable to leave to individual initiative can, under changed conditions, be performed with better results by common effort. It is quite impossible, and equally undesirable, to draw in theory a hard-and-fast line which shall always divide the two sets of cases. This every one who is not cursed with the pride of the closest philosopher will see, if he will only take the trouble to think about some of our closet phenomena. For instance, when people live on isolated farms or in little hamlets, each house can be left to attend to its own drainage and water-supply; but the mere multiplication of families in a given area produces new problems which, because they differ in size, are found to differ not only in degree, but in kind from the old; and the questions of drainage and water-supply have to be considered from the common standpoint. It is not a matter for abstract dogmatizing to decide when this point is reached; it is a matter to be tested by practical experiment. Much of the discussion about socialism and individualism is entirely pointless, because of the failure to agree on terminology. It is not good to be a slave of names. I am a strong individualist by personal habit, inheritance, and conviction; but it is a mere matter of common sense to recognize that the State, the community, the citizens acting together, can do a number of things better than if they were left to individual action. The individualism which finds its expression in the abuse of physical force is checked very early in the growth of civilization, and we of to-day should in our turn strive to shackle or destroy that individualism which triumphs by greed and cunning, which exploits the weak by craft instead of ruling them by brutality. We ought to go with any man in the effort to bring about justice and the equality of opportunity, to turn the tool-user more and more into the tool-owner, to shift burdens so that they can be more equitably borne. The deadening effect on any race of the adoption of a logical and extreme socialistic system could not be overstated; it would spell sheer destruction; it would produce grosser wrong and outrage, fouler immortality, than any existing system. But this does not mean that we may not with great advantage adopt certain of the principles professed by some given set of men who happen to call themselves Socialists; to be afraid to do so would be to make a mark of weakness on our part.
Theodore Rooseveldt
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"