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Voice Actors Protest at E3
Thought it wasn't really covered by any of the news sites, there were apparently several protests by voice actors at this year's E3. ShackNews has a piece on the under-reported event. From the article: "To deny working-class performers their fair share of the tremendous profits their labor helps to generate is illogical, unreasonable and unjust...It is simply shortsighted to believe that consumers don't care about the artistic quality of the characters."
At $375 an hour, you'd think every videogame out there would have top-notch voice acting. Hell, pay me in pizza and I'll easily match the quality of acting in most games today. ^_^
This is just a case of simple greed off of a successful industry. There are VERY few games that sell well on the strength of VAs. In fact i'd go so far as to say that VAs detract from more games than they add to.
Voice synthesis is getting better all the time. One day there won't be a need for "voice actors" just as CGI is replacing actors and 'muppets' (eg Yoda)
Trolling is a art,
They just need to get in league with some programmers and switch voice overs. You know voice over the Winnie the Pooh game with GTA sounds and vice-versa. That would get peoples attention real fast.
Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
So many games fall short in the audio department because they decide that its resonible to skimp on the VO work . Now I am not suggesting they pay the outrageous union prices (Alot of us who do VO work and are non union will do it for a hell of alot less) , but they need to properly audition and not just throw the janitor on at the last minute(though some games luck out with asigning staff parts , DMA(now rock star north) infact used their marketing manager for one of the DJs on GTA3.
;) ).
They need to take care not to taint their work with shoody poorly acted cheese ala Anime Dubbings.
A game can be a work of art , but if you just shove on bob from marketing who sounds like a squeaking rabbit as the all Macho one man army charichter then it can really blow the immersion.
So please please if your making a game that requires acting then please atleast audition properly and take care , there are plenty of younger actors and non union folks willing to work and hard just for the love of it (but we do prefer cash
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
If there isn't one already, one not start one? Bargaining power and all that...but maybe pick something other than Voice Actors Guild...because who wants to be in VAG all the time?
(sorry, I had to make the obligatory sex joke...)
"How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
Look no further than the Legacy of Kain series of games for phenominal voice acting. I swear, those guys that do the voices for Kain and Raziel could make someone speechless and pale by just answering a phone with "Hello". One of the reasons I've kept up with every one of those games has been, in addition to the quality of the story, the insanely great voice acting which really does bring the characters to life (so to speak).
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
If you'd RTFA, you'd notice that they already are a Union, namely the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA).
And here is yet more evidence that video games have risen to the level of other entertainment media. With a next generation of games that promise to hit us all up for $60 and $70 a pop, you can bet the voice acting is going to be more and more important. So I personally hope that the actors get the residuals they want because in the end I think it will give us all a better product.
Either way, there will still be games that suck, just like there are movies and tv shows that suck. But you can bet that these days the best actors get residuals from their work, why shouldn't voice actors be able to get the same kind of deals? There's plenty of pie for everyone!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
It likely wasn't covered becasue it's not really a story. Let's face it, voice acting in games, with a few notable exceptions (GTA pops into my mind), is horrible. Unless I worked on one of these good games, so I could point it out, I'd be embarrassed to say I was a video game voice actor.
Secondly, did these voice actors not sign a contract saying they would do a certain amout of work for a certain amount of pay? If so, guess what?
On the final point, I don't care about voice acting in most games. The aforementioned GTA aside, I cringe when the cut scenes come in and the wooden actors start reading their lines with little to no feeling. If a video game cost $10 extra because they had to pay one of these people extra, I'd skip it.
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The difference is that "computer" people are stupid, and refuse to organize.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Looks fine to me.
I mean how much work do programmers, artists, musicians, designers, game testers, directors, and producers do anyway? Surely not as much as the voice actors!
Seriously if you're doing one day's worth of work for a project that takes a large team several months to over a year to complete, sit down and shut up.
here
I would tell them to find a real job. I think video games focus way too much on the story as it is and not enough on game play(e.g. metal gear solid). If I want a story, I'll rent a dvd.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
Just before the first video game crash in the 80's, Mattel Electronics agreed to pay programmers a small fee for each cartridge sold. Alas, they were out of business before they paid out any (much?) money.
Do the programmers, concept artists, QAT leads and everyone else get a bonus if a game sells xxx copies?
A few hours in a studio vs months in a cubicle - tell me, who deserves the bonus?
The programmers and artists SHOULD get paid based on success though...see my rant above.
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
What about the developers and artists, who's jobs actually involve months and months of WORK, and not just 10 minutes in front of a microphone? If the voice actors complain enough, we may start seeing more games with the voices of the developers themselves.
Nope I'm not.... b/c they only get paid that 200/hour for like one or two days...then they're back on the search for another job.
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Unions to the rescue! WTF.
So the voice actor isn't being paid fairly at $300+/hr while the programmers and artists pulling 50-80+hr weeks are being paid salaries of 35 to $80k/yr, which if you consider the number of hours they work, isn't a whole lot.
My response to the voice actors: If $300+/hr isn't enough, don't take the gig. Or better yet, start your own game company.
Here's some useful info. The people getting "rich" from game development are the company owners/publishers, not the people making the work. The best you can hope for is a tiny royalty, but to get that you usually get shafted on pay.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Yes, they'd have far fewer problems if they didn't have any ions.
From the Poochie episode, in the recording studio with June Bellamy, the voice of Itchy and Scratchy
Homer: How'd you get to be so good?
June: Oh, just experience I suppose. I started out as Roadrunner. [as Roadrunner] Meep!
Homer: You mean "meep-meep"?
June: No, they only paid me to say it once, then they doubled it up on the soundtrack. [to herself] Cheap bastards.
Was Luke Skywalker (aka Mark Hamill) there?
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Y'know what? I almost got into a shouting match with one of them while I was standing in line to get my badgeholder (which is another absurdity; I already have my goddamn badge but I have to stand in line two hours for the lanyard? but I digress.)
If the job doesn't pay enough, you're free to quit. Somebody else will be glad to do it for what the companies WILL pay, and you can go back to waiting tables until you land that BIG job in pornography or whatever it is people in Los Angeles consider relevant.
When you chucklefucks petition to raise the wage you get from voice-over work, it isn't like the guys at the top are going to take a pay cut; they're going to justify hiking the price of games because production (i.e. YOU) just got more expensive. So knock it off. You could easily be replaced by a game fan who would be delighted to work for free, or in exchange for a promo copy of the final product.
So does this mean hand models for watches and jewelry should receive the same benefits? Would be a shame if their hard work wasn't fully paid for.
One of the hurdles for making a modern video game is gathering the huge amount of capital required to hire the dozens or hundreds of people involved. Perhaps a profit-sharing arrangement where coders, 3D artists *AND* voice actors take a lower salary in exchange for a share of the distribution would help lower that hurdle.
They had good actors for the in-game video and audio for the first edition. Then they released the "Gold Edition" and they'd redone the voice and video work with extremely crappy actors. I later found out it was the developers of the game indulging their vanity! Fortunately I was able to use the old videos in the new version, saved the game for me.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
That won't work, but you're on the right track. From TFA, the big sticking point is that the voice actors want residuals if a game sells over X units. In other words, they want you to pay them a bunch of money up front, then more money if the game does well. How 'bout they make a choice? You can have your $250 an hour up front, OR you can take a percentage of whatever profits the game might make. You don't get both.
My first experience with voice acting was when I bought the speech add-on pack for Privateer for $14.95. It was a steaming pile of excrement. I swear they must have grabbed a secretary and a couple of janitors to do the voice "acting".
Most of the voice acting today is at least competent. It's rarely outstanding, but I'm not sure what constitutes outstanding voice acting. I guess if you're not aware that you're listening to some actor, and you just accept that it's an orc or an alien or whatever that's talking, then it's good voice acting.
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Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
According to this article in the Chicago Tribune the actors are considering going on strike http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/la-fi-voi ce25may25,1,5456782.story?coll=chi-technology-hed. It appears that these actors are either members of SAG or the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA).
Looks like the actors are going to go on strike http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/la-fi-voi ce25may25,1,5456782.story?coll=chi-technology-hed
The worst voice acting I have ever heard was the first SOCOM.
You hear a rather plain, male adult voice yell "outgoing!" when you toss a grenade. It sounds like it belongs in a language teaching course tape.
The voices for UT2004 sounded much more "military".
It is fairly harsh actualy ,(though if you get a good gig you can make a fair few grand ) unless you get a role like that of a long time actor on the simpsons (100,000 per eppisode) . ;) blooper reels are not acidental btw , its overtime
Actualy im lying , most of us have other jobs and getting a couple of grand for 2 days work is really rather sweet , though if its all you do then you may have a fair few problems making ends meet.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I was at one of these seminars, and I've got to say, I was quite offended that someone which worked a total of eight hours on a game wants profit sharing when developers who work thousands of hours aren't getting it.
These guys are getting hundreds of dollars an hour to talk into a mic. Grow up. The people who put the building together aren't getting a share either.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
What about the quality of the programming, graphics design, and level design? These are more important than the voice actors in my opinion. I just don't see why they should be treated special because they are "actors". If you want that extra money, negotiate for it. If the publisher would rather use a different voice instead of giving you royalties for the next 5 years, so be it. Don't complain about only working two days either, that is like getting paid $37 an hour for 20 days.
is that anything like the film actors guild? (FAG)
:)
(for those who don't get it, go watch team america, world police
- tristan
I'm guessing you are making reference to this..
"LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Two of the key unions representing actors have asked their members to authorize a strike against the video game industry after talks on a new master agreement between the two sides broke down."
I can see in some games where the voice is important (Lord of the Rings for example) but in many other games, I really don't care who is doing the voices. The game play is generally what matters most to me.
Also from the article...
"The games industry said the biggest sticking point was residuals, or ongoing payments to actors and actresses for each copy of a game sold to which they contributed, including their voices and likenesses.
The unions wanted residual payments on games that sell more than 400,000 units, while the game publishers wanted only to make single up-front payments to talent.
Results of the strike vote are expected on June 7."
If an actor wants to push for higher residuals, that's fine too, but they should be prepared for someone else to step in and do this at a cheaper price. How long until voice overs are out sourced?
Rather than starting a whole "union: good or bad" debate, I'll just state (my opinion) that I feel unions, while in the past they may have done some good, are actually a driving force in outsourcing jobs. They are by no means the only factor, but the overhead has to be passed on to a consumer at some point and consumers will choose products with a lower price if the quality is acceptable.
Get over yourselves and be happy getting paid. Have we learned nothing from the NHL Lockout?! Aaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!
Complaining about celebrity voices in animated films, Billy West believes that celebrity voices are here to stay, even though they don't guarantee box office success. Here's an interview with him where he elaborates on this phenomenon.
What, me worry?
They want more money? I want more money first!
I am a game programmer. The industry as a whole tends to short change the developers. This is pretty well documented with the "EA Spouse" incident.
On top of that, the job that the voice actors do os not nearly as important as other aspects of game development that are inadequately compensated.
I would have probably taken the trouble to throw something at these twits if I had been able to get to E3 this year.
END COMMUNICATION
Another one with great voice acting. Actually, i believe the great acting, coupled with the great script and storyline are what made the game so great. A true high watermark at the time...
I don't feel like it...
Maybe this guy needs to make the break from film to game play...http://filmsound.studienet.org/cliche/wilhe lmscream.htm
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To deny working-class performers their fair share of the tremendous profits their labor helps to generate is illogical, unreasonable and unjust
Is there something that makes a working class performer different from the working class in general? I mean, how many of us have worked for a company that started off small and barely making any profit that grew into a huge money making machine? It sucks to see something become so profitable and have none of that profit work back down to you. It's crap but it's not something unique to "performers" of the game industry.
How many of the programmers at EA feel that they aren't getting their "fair share" of the profits coming in from the latest version of Madden or The Sims?
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A portion of the profits, geez... Your hours of contribution versus hundred, even thousands by the programmers. Arrogance, arrogant, greedy elitists....
If Kerry was the answer, it must have been a stupid question.
The UN - The largest "political" cause of death.
Hi, I'm the Audio Director for Flashbang Studios. We make small web/downloadable games, but we're a teeny tiny studio and budget for an entire game is less than a single voice actor working 8 hours in a studio for $375 dollars. Almost at the garage games level, but my job is to still come up with good audio, somehow.
m /
h tm
I can tell you from personal experience that's it's possible to come up with very good quality audio for cheap by tapping the "semi-professional" vein. Not just conscripting your friends, which usually has a very amateur sound, but going a step up in quality. Tapping local college drama departments, theater clubs, even using Craigslist will net you a huge step up from just casting your friends for only a small price increase. Most people will record for just a few dozen dollars and a free copy of the game to show their spouse/kids.
In our most recently released Flashbang game, Glow Worm, I asked a friend of the family who is an opera professor if he would be the voice of our magician mascot, and he was totally willing. I paid him $40 in Domino's Pizza coupons and some free copies of the game, he was happy. If I had paid ten times more for an industry voiceover specialist, would it have been ten times better? I sincerely doubt it. If you like, judge for yourself how it turned out:
http://www.flashbangstudios.com/downloads/glowwor
I just lent my skills to my colleague Britney Brimhall across town at Himalaya Studios. She asked me for help adding 24 voices to her upcoming adventure game, Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine on a shoestring budget but didn't know how to go about doing it. I told her the same method I used myself- put out a call to local drama clubs and theater departments and see who you can rustle up. She did just that and the talent outpouring was amazing. We had hundreds of people turn out for the audition for the chance to be in the game- including some professionals ignoring their talent agetns and even a PhD in acting! They worked for between $25 and $45 for the entire session, plus a free copy of the game once it comes out. I'd say the talent of the people available in those auditions was excellent. She ended up castomg her programmer friend as the lead role instead of one of the actors who auditioned, regrettably- but she had the option to pick from a bevy of skilled actors at bargain prices. See some pictures of the range of voice actors willing to work for around $40/hr here at her site:
http://www.himalayastudios.com/designer_journals.
On our next game, I asked a talent agency if I could hire one of their voice actresses (Jennifer Hale, the voice of Bastila in KOTOR and many more! 3 ) to be the Witch in our next game, PotionMotion. I probably have about half an hour's worth of lines on the mic, and I told them my total audio budget was $200. That's $400 an hour. They haven't gotten back to me in several days. So I've already gone to my backup- a middle-aged mother who works in a local cafe in town. Maybe they'll still get back to me, but maybe not. If my $200-$400/hr just isn't good enough to land me a professional voice actress, I know I have a lot of extremely affordable options at the semi-professional level. If they want to make it extremely difficult for me to hire their services, I know at least one alternate path to landing "good enough" level acting.
So for us semi-indy style studios, there is a cornucopia of talent waiting out there. The professional voice actors out there rebuff especially lower-end game makers at their own peril.
No mod points but please accept a ghetto +5 insightful from me. I don't know whats with Slashdot lately but it seems that everyday theres a story whining about _some_other_groups union behaviour/industrial relations issue and then a few stories whining about IT working conditions, renumeration and out-sourcing. Can these people put two and two together? Hasn't happened yet...
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
I can understand why alot of IT folks are anti-labor... unions make for alot of hassle and there's a huge cost in flexibility and seniority becomes important instead of a liability.
The best model for IT would be the skilled tradesmen model that plumbers and electricians use -- but that's a blue collar thing that most snobby IT people would cringe at.
On the other hand, corporate governance and management is almost universally flawed and many IT organizations are designed to burn through workers.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Does this remind anyone of the time when the commercial actors raised a ruckus about not being paid enough to make a living off of doing a few commercials a year? I don't remember the article, since it was over a year ago, but I remember that protesters were expecting a year's salary for what amounted to less than a month of work.
I think that this is the problem where someone looks at the big number (gross product sold) and doesn't take into account all of the little costs involved. It becomes "There's so much cash there, I want some of it."
"A wolf's eyes can see into your soul"
My writing
Theres unions and unions.
I think the US model of trades unions isn't what I recognise in the European context where there is no inflexibility, closed shops are illegal and seniority has no special perks associated with it. So I'd like to suggest they take a look at how, say AMICUS in the UK (who represent amongst others IT workers via the IPTA) operate rather than thinking of the teamsters or the construction unions. I still don't always agree with what they do necessarily but from many posts here and in other stories, I just don't recognise the mindset or the behaviour ascribed to the North American unions (or what Slashdotters imagine those behaviours are) in my own experience.
I'm a member of a union myself, mainly for the discounts on car insurance I can get through them and legal representation coverage (as an academic I work with 'the public', ie. students from a position of power inequality so its useful in case any silly allegations or whatever were made). They also lobby for pay and conditions improvements along with the half dozen or so other unions in the sector. I guess if anything bizarrely unfair happened they'd have my back to some extent. But thats about it. If they strike I don't necessarily have to take part if I don't want to for example. Aside from paying subs I don't perceive any other hassle associated with being in a union. If anything my employer considers it a responsible thing for staff to do; if the worst happened they'd rather deal with an experienced union representative as a first stage in settling what might be a misunderstanding rather than have me turn up at 9am flanked by a lawyer or something.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
One problem is that minors can't get into concerts because the majority of concerts (at least in my geographic area) are held at venues classified as bars.
I'm in a public employee union as well that's pretty similar to yours. I think the main purpose it serves is to keep political hacks and appointees from taking over the civil service any more than they do already.
While where I work has alot of problems, its also a fairly collegial atmosphere and most people enjoy their jobs. That is what IT folks should be fighting for. The insanity that many development shops enforce with defensive management and organizations designed to fail has destroyed alot of lives and marriages.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Stop doing voiceover completely, and get back to having people READ. Those talk-to-everyone-in-town quests in $rpg got me speed-reading boy -- even if most phrases were, "I do not have any information for you," or its equivalent. I prefer captioning anyhow and usually turn the voice-over volume to minimum so that I can pump up ambient volume.
But Maaa! Everyone else has a