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Basics of Modern Intel CPUs
Doggie Fizzle writes "For those who think you can drop a Xeon into your Celeron system for an upgrade... 'Although there are currently only two main players in the CPU market, AMD and Intel, the number of choices is still enough to make the typical consumer's head spin. Each manufacturer has a few different models to promote, and many of these models can be found in a few different form factors (namely, the "sockets" to which they connect) that exclude interchangeability. This two-part series of Tech Tips will look at a few details of each of the currently-supported CPU (Central Processing Unit) sockets and how they are all similar and different from one to another' "
Thank god someone finally explained what the acronym "CPU" meant, I've been wondering about that for years, quietly bobbing my head like I know what's going on anytime someone mentions it.
And I owe it all to Slashdot.
What about the IBM Power series? They're a fairly small market share, ok, but they're still important. Almost every mac in the world runs on them, and they're the makers of the Cell. I'd say that's fairly important. I'm sick of this emphasis on x86-derived chips. They're not very good, and we can already see AMD moving away with their 64-bit systems. They resemble the power series quite a lot. Still not as good as a G5 though....
The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
As if sockets aren't enough, there's now two video card standards AGP and SLI (card: PCI-E) which caught me by surprise. I had to change my order before shipping as I didn't realise I could not use an AGP card with the new SLI/PCI-E configuration. Better? I don't need to spend $$$, my existing video card works fine, I just wanted to upgrade the mobo and CPU.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Although there are currently only two main players in the CPU market, AMD and Intel [...]
Huh ?
What about IBM and all those embedded CPUS ?
Did you mean PC Desktop CPU market ?
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
...the kind of people that visit this site know the difference their 478s and their 939s?
Who picked the article title?
To avoid the Slashdot pounding
Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
"Doggie Fizzle writes[...]" No, Jason Kohrs wrote it. "Doggie Fizzle" copied and pasted it. I think the /. editors need to change their format a bit so as not to mislead readers about who writes these "summaries".
(And thanks in advance for moderating me "Troll" or "Offtopic" for pointing this out.)
I read the item on /. when there were only 6 comments, and clicked the link. At the bottom was: Page Views: 001555
/.)?
By the time I finished, and refreshed, Page Views: 002270.
When is this thing going to be slashdotted, or it this normal level of traffic (from
Yes, this article was definitely beneath your level of understanding. However, I am sure there are others (like me) who aren't up on hardware like you. However, please don't disparage us.
At some point Cmdr Taco will put up an article about personal grooming. I promise not to make fun of it when the article introduces you to 'Shampoo' and 'Deoderant'.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
What is the relative heat output? Warms water, boils water? Fries eggs? Melts rings from Mordor? Given Intel, this is a definite must-know.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Maybe this is why there's a near monolopy in operating systems, it's a good thing. Giving customers an actual choice seems to be enough to make their heads spin.
This isn't about architecture. It's just a one-page note about CPU chip sockets. Big deal.
No AMD sockets covered.
Does Socket A even exist if this article ignores it?
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
If you're going to insult somebody, at least learn how to spell 'Deodorant'. Moron.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
A Motherboard can not have two AGP Slots, unless it had a horribly modified bridging set. Reason? AGP is an accelerated graphics *port* not a *bus* altho in fairness PCI-E is port based, but it was designed from the ground up to have multi-device capability whereas AGP was designed to be a SINGLE video adapter interface to the system.
A story where my .sig has some relevance.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
1 part= marketing buzzword
1 part= overheating
6 parts= too expensive compared to AMD
Statesmen serve to better the country and help the people.
Politicians serve to better themselves and help friends.
Hey, you joke about Shampoo and Deodorant, but some high-profile figures in free software have yet to learn about such things...
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
What do you mean there are different 'sockets' for different CPU types and manufactures.
/. Here is a guidline... if you are getting a technical document from a mainstream (ie not technical) source it is gonna be a POS. If the article is from the manufactures website it is just going to be an advertisement and any details are subject to bullshit.
News at 11
I though this was supposed to be 'news for nerds', not 'news for the moderaty ignorant masses'....
This is such dumb article topic (no I didn't rtfa (slashdotted already), but if what the parent says is true). If you think there are a lot of socket types now, rewind a couple years... Now that was freaking complicated. Slots, Sockets, some with a lifespan of only a few months (I think it was a P4 socket). Remember Cyrix, Transmeta.... not to mention Motorola... The fun times with socket 'adapters'.
Any self respecting nerd will know that CPU are not like lego or plugs (of which if you look around the world there are more of those standards than sockets), that you can just interchange at will (GASP!).
Anyway everyonce and a while an dumbed down version of an article will grace
It amazes me how some of this stuff makes it by the editors (Ya now I can say i have bitched about the editors like everyone else!).
/. /. /. /. /. /.
I imagine thats all the webserver is seeing right now, cause i'm not getting anything. Can't you people pace yourselves??? *ducks and prepares for his own hourly injection of slashdot*
An overview like this is pretty handy, but it's made for people who know more-than-nothing from computers. This will make the complete computer noobs even more confused, I guess.
I work at a big consumer electronics store in the weekends (aside to college), and people who buy a computer there are almost completely blanco concerning computer-knowledge. The only name they know is 'Pentium 4'. When they see a CPU like 'Sempron', 'Athlon' or 'Celeron' on the information tag, they get totally confused: "Isn't this a Pentium 4? I heard Pentium 4 is the best?". So a lot of people don't even know there are exisiting other CPUs, or think that there's only one 'good' one.
I think it will be handy to have some overview for those people which are the main perspectives to chose one CPU or another. For most people buying their computer over there the most simple Celeron or Sempron based system would be enough, to just connect to the internet and have them type their e-mail. But due to ignorance in the forest of CPUs they don't know what's right for them. Of course I am there to advise them etc, but it would be very nice if people have just a little idea of what they want (and not start asking "What's AMD?" all the time).
Newest intel CPU main feature: DRM
Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
An article that puts the word "socket"* in quotes is definitely an article that does not belong on Slashdot :)
*) No, it is not wrong for me to use quotation marks around "socket" when I bitched about the author using quotation marks around "socket". The author was quoting to define the word "socket". I was quoting because I was reffering to "socket" the word, not socket the thing.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Everyone on Slashdot needs to make sure they know a CPU is a Central Processing Unit before they read the article.
Your comment might have been helpfull if you were actually pointing out a misunderstanding that people were having, or the article being just plain wrong about something. Everyone reading the article knows that we're talking about PCs.
AccountKiller
Holy shit, did you just get modded up for bitch-slapping yourself?
That's some impressive Slashdot-judo, it is.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
School SOLs: - Take a processor and benchmark it. If it performs poorly, try using less money on supporting components to see if that improves it any.
Standard AGP has *FOUR* devices on the bus: The PCI master/slave on the chipset, the PCI master/slave on the card, the AGP master on the card, and the AGP slave on the chipset.
Only *ONE* of those devices can transmit data at a time, and there is an arbitration scheme to determine which device can use the bus at any given time.
Compare that to PCI-E, which is NOT a bus. It's a point-to-point link, and the sender can always send data to the receiver because the link is DEDICATED. To add more devices to a PCI-E topology, you need switches.
paintball
Oh! So the socket T MCU things are just big Basic Stamps? With all those I/O pins I bet I could control two Battlebots at once!
Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
She was borrowing your Real Doll (TM)?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
- x86 (typing this on one),
- UltraSPARC (most of the boxes at work, plus an Ultra 5 I bought on EBay to play with),
- ARM (my Palm - one of the new ones),
- Power PC (stuff at work)
- and several 68k derivatives (various boxes at work from little to seriously studly)
."NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQISITION!!!!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
While I can appreciate that this article is aimed at the person who doesn't know anything, they miss a ton of CPU socket types in there. Many of which are either very common right now, or becoming very common.
The article is way too terse, and doesn't really describe much. This same article could have (and probably should have been) 6 or 7 pages long. The fact that it only talks about intel processors is silly as well.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Those were just the current Intel sockets. Looks like AMD will be the next time they feel like writing something.
Yes, the name says it all.
It is a point to point protocol where both devices provide multiple agents on SEPARATE CHANNELS to maintain the control/data protocol. All of these agents you mention are not simply "wired together", but rather are connected point to point.
So, you cannot place multiple graphics devices on an AGP PORT therefore it is a point to point port indeed. Some MCH controllers support multiple AGP devices, and pinout multiple AGP PORTs, however most do not.
" What's wrong with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium/?"
it doesnt exsist?
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Did anyone else see the colors on the page?! Good thing Firefox lets us turn off CSS (View > Page Style > No Style), because it hurt my eyes to even look at the page. Especially their link text color.
Too bad I didn't think to do it until I had already read the article...
R.Mo
Seeing as how every fourth word was a paid link. This article was about as useful as a game review at one of the "major" sites.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
In the article they state: "The Intel naming system used for the Pentium 4 processors in this class uses letters to represent the frontside bus speeds present. An "A" means 400 MHz, "B" means 533 MHz, and "C" means 800 MHz. So, a Pentium 4 2.4C would offer greater performance than a 2.4B or a 2.4A, despite them all having the same 2.4 GHz clock speed."
= 50009562&f=77909774&m=913000713631
But this is wrong.
Original Pentium 4 CPUs used the Willamette core and ranged in speed from 1.3Ghz to 2Ghz in 100Mhz increments. They were built on a 0.18 micron process, had 256K L2, used a 400Mhz FSB, and came in Socket 423 and Socket 478 packages.
Second generation Pentium 4 CPUs use the Northwood core, built on a 0.13 micron process. They range in speed from 1.6Ghz to 2.8Ghz and come in 400Mhz and 533Mhz FSB versions. They have 512K L2 and come in Socket 478 packaging. Any speed where a Northwood and Willamette overlapped (like 1.6Ghz, 1.8Ghz and 2.0Ghz), the Northwood receives an A suffix. Any speed where both a 400Mhz FSB and 533Mhz FSB CPU overlaps, the 533Mhz FSB CPU gets a B suffix (2.4Ghz CPUs come in 2.4 and 2.4B flavors). The final
The second and a half generation P4 use the Northwood core, but enabled HyperThreading. They range in speed from 2.4Ghz to 3.4Ghz. There is but a single P4 CPU with a 533Mhz FSB that has HyperThreading - the 3.06Ghz. The rest are 800Mhz FSB CPUs. They still have 512K L2 and come in Socket 478 packaging. Based on the latest datasheets, all 800Mhz FSB P4s received a C suffix.
The third generation P4 uses the Prescott core, built on a 0.09 micron process. They have 1MB L2, still use Socket 478, have 533Mhz or 800Mhz FSBs, and use an E suffix to denote their core type when overlapping with 800Mhz FSB parts from the Northwood era. However, they use an A suffix to denote their Prescott cores when overlapping with existing 533Mhz FSB parts. For example, a 2.80A is a Prescott core on a 533Mhz FSB with HT disabled. Based on the latest specification update, Prescotts range in speed from 2.4Ghz to 3.4Ghz. HyperThreading is only enabled on the 800Mhz FSB parts.
This covers just the Desktop P4, not the P4 Extreme Edition or the mobile/semi-mobile parts.
I pulled this from here: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s
==>lazn
It actually did, because I've been paying more attention to CPU advances, WiFi advances, Kernel upgrades, etc., etc. There's only about 500 things to keep track of these days and that yet-another standard has traipsed out which is completely incompatible with the last one. Meanwhile my focus was on moving from a 32 bit CPU to a 64 bit (single core) and made the simple error of overlooking that one aspect while critiquing the motherboard of all other aspects. A quick email to the vendor and problem averted.
You mean you actually figured out you had something called a "video card", that it was actually inside the box you have sitting on your desk, AND, you have opened successfully up your case, AND you identified which card was the video card somehow, AND you are considering putting a new one in its place, AND you have gone through the trouble to determine what is lacking about your card and which card is the best upgrade for it? All that trouble, AND you didn't think to read the NAME of the video card to notice whether it said "PCI-Express" or "AGP"?
I put the box together, you sodding twit. In case it has slipped your mind, most of us only buy a new mobo or computer every few years, so when we do commit ourselves we do a lot of research to find out what's all been happening, make a list, check it twice sort of thing. That I don't do this every day I think it's pretty cool when I pull together parts from 20 vendors and the thing works. I dropped a lot on my AGP video card and decided nVidia's SLI advantages didn't warrant another $400 video card outlay (the mobo and CPU were only $300) everything else in the existing box will simply plug in and I'll be off again with hardly a blip.
Man, that is one big coincidence... what are the odds of all that happening to the same unfortunate soul? Well, what the hell... blame it on Intel, right?
Sorry pragmatism doesn't fascinate you as much as making a complete ass of yourself, but some of us like to spend our time with systems actually running and doing things rather than being l33tist.
I know this sounds like a flame, but I ave your best interests at heart...
No..... really?
You should totally not be opening up your PC, much less believing the anal drivel AMD resorts to. What, are there rules to dual-core?
As I was given to understand, about 10 years ago when there was a lot of experimental work on these sorts of things at the Pentagon/Los Alamos Money-Is-No-Object level, multi-core meant more than one processing unit on the same die. All Intel have done is stick a couple processors on their individual dies, along with the usual support circuitry (ALU, MMU, L1 Cache, L2 Cache, ...) in the same package and called it dual-core. The main difference is they have to wire these things together and there's some performance sacrifice as it's really cobbled together to meet a deadline. Puts me in mind of the days when Detroit would just dump a bigger engine in a commuter car, add a stripe of paint, and call it a sports car. Too bad a lot of people died not realising the similarity only was in power and not handling.
And AMD gets to set these rules? Even if this means their processor will cost twice as much and also return lower margins? Yeah, they might get a few percent performance on a few benchmarks, but at twice the cost, who wants that?
People who really do want more bang for the buck. Intel will make scads on the gullible, while they put their real effort into a 64 bit Xeon with 24MB of cache. You know that beast will cost $$$$ while the eventual production costs of real dual core chips will soon mean commodity chips, again, can beat the pants of high end.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Just make sure you touch something that's grounded (or wear a grounding wrist strap) before you start assembling your computer ...
Ummm did they forget about ARM, MIPS, PPC, SPARC?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Cats are less prone to rub you when they are dripping with foul smelling static guard.
Storm (A+ certified) p.s. wear your grounding strap
News for nerds. Stuff that matters. Really?!?!? What are news? things we dont know about. What matters? news. I guess everyone has got to be disillusioned every once in a while... Now is the time for me to go post in noobs.slashdot.org
I never said the artivle was beneath my level. Highschool geography above my level too, I know none. I do know some basics about shampoos and deodorants but would not be offended by a decent article on either.
BUT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, not on Slashdot. If you want articles on hardware go to Tom's Hardware, Anandtech or any other of a number of sites.
Kudos to CmdrTaco for being one of the fathers of Slashdot but IMO this is still WRONG.
If the dumbest questions you get are "Isn't this a Pentium 4? I heard Pentium 4 is the best?", you probably have some very tech-savvy customers there.
I don't even work in a shop, but I have this knee-jerk reaction to go buy some computer stuff for Easter or Christmas (and about 10 times in between) like everyone else. And around Easter and Christmas I get to stand in line for _hours_, watching the shop staff being bogged by people needing hours to decide what to buy. Stuff like (I swear to god, not made up, both were happening at the same time right before christmas):
1. One lady apparently had some good idea what kind of a computer she wants. Presumably given to her by someone else, because while I'll be the first to point out that women can be great at computer stuff, this one wasn't. Anyway, see, she didn't have money for that config, and... she took an hour of debating with the clerk whether she wants it without a PSU or without a CD drive. How was she planning to run a computer without a PSU, is for me still one of life's greater mysteries.
2. The other clerk in the shop was having a discussion like this with a customer, going in a loop, about some video capture card:
Customer: "But Shop X has the same card cheaper!"
Clerk: "The same one? I doubt it, but ok, so buy it from them then."
Customer: "Yeah, well, it's actually a Brand Y card, but it does the same things, right?"
Clerk: "No, not really. This one also has <insert list of features>."
Customer: "But mostly it does the same thing, right?"
Clerk: "Yeah, well, if you only need the basic features, yes, you're probably better off with that one. It's indeed a cheaper model."
Customer: "So can't I get this one for the same price? It does the same thing."
Clerk: "No, I'm affraid not. This one is more expensive."
Customer: "But in that shop it was a lot cheaper!"
Clerk: "No, again, not the same card. This one costs more."
Customer: "But I don't have that much money."
Clerk: "Yes, well, so buy the cheaper one then."
Customer: "But I really want this one. Can't I get it for the same price as the other one?"
Clerk: "Nope, sorry."
And so on, and so forth, in an endless loop, reminding me of a little kid's "but I really want that lollypop" persistence. Only, of course, when a 40 year old does it, it's just not the same thing.
I actually left the line after something like 30 minutes, went and bought some other stuff, and came back some 30-40 minutes later. The exact same two were still blocking the clerks, going in a loop over the exact same stuff.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Let me explain where I am coing from. I used to put computers together for folks before Dell made it big. Since then, putting custom computers together is only financially viable for those in niche markets. Why put together my in-laws computer, when I can buy a starter kit for $299 that includes a monitor? They buy in bulk. I buy in ones or twos. I can't compete. No problem with this as it was just a way to pay for school, and my real love was software and finance.
Anyhow, I've been out of the hardware game for quite a while (almost 15 years). Was the article rudimentary? Yes. But for someone like me, it was actually informative. There are articles here on Slashdot about software development that make me smile... been there.... done that... didn't get the T-shirt, cuz a real programmer only needs ONE T-Shirt. But to someone who is a db designer or, like you, appears to be into hardware, might be informative.
If the title of this site were 'Hardware Gurus', I'd agree with you. But it isn't. This is a general technology site.
Also, if you want more interesting articles, submit some. I see you haven't done so yet. Kinda like politics... if you aren't doing anything to fix the problems, then you are part of the problem.
My 2 cents.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I think the point is that if we wanted to know about CPU sockets, we could have just gone and read CPU socket over at Wikipedia. This isn't news, this is a basic reference article, and not a terribly good one at that.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You know the old saying: "There are three kinds of people. Those who can count, and those who can't."
...laura who still thinks ARM processors are cool