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AMD and Intel Notebooks Head to Head

Posted by Zonk on from the compare-and-contrast dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The two chip giants go head-to-head in this review of notebook computers which features 10 different models." From the article: "To be blunt, sourcing high-performance AMD-based notebooks for this test was less difficult than extracting teeth from a fully grown chicken -- but only just. After much chasing, only two vendors submitted an AMD-powered product -- MSI and Asus. Interestingly, both vendors had their Intel-powered notebooks at the Lab with no chasing needed. We should point out that the rarity of AMD product is not the fault of AMD, rather vendors, in Australia at least, do not seem to stock adequate quantities of high-performance AMD-equipped notebooks. Acer, for example, has a humdinger of a notebook the Acer Ferrari 3400 that is equipped with a mobile Athlon 64 but the company was unable to ship a single unit to the lab during the entire month of May."

151 of 204 comments (clear)

  1. Its a conspiracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A consipracy I tell ya. Intell must have jinxed the compiler preventing the vendors from shipping AMDs.

    1. Re:Its a conspiracy. by cnettel · · Score: 1

      Insightful?! Oh, my...

    2. Re:Its a conspiracy. by mattspammail · · Score: 1

      There has been no evidence of any AMD's, but we had strong suspicions that they did exist. That's why we went in and ordered. New evidence suggests that bad Intel may have been influencing our moves.

      --
      Now accepting PayPal donations!
  2. Of course they couldn't by fr0dicus · · Score: 5, Funny

    The waiting list for a Ferrari is months or years!

  3. Printer-friendly version by sczimme · · Score: 5, Informative


    Fewer ads 'n' whatnot: Clicky.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
    1. Re:Printer-friendly version by buraianto · · Score: 1

      Ads? What are those? Signed, an adblock user.

    2. Re:Printer-friendly version by R.D.Olivaw · · Score: 1

      Ads: The reason you can still browse your favorite websites for free.

    3. Re:Printer-friendly version by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 1

      Isn't ads something like an adz, but not as leet?

      --
      ^_^
  4. One possible explenation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It could be that the demand for high performance AMD notebooks is high. Compared to the amount of notebooks produced maybe, but still. THey are being shipped to customers rather than to test labs. :)

  5. Fodder for the lawsuit? by jarich · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this sort of situation fodder for the pending lawsuits or just a reflection of consumer demand (or the lack thereof)?

    --
    Agile Artisans
  6. More cannon fodder by Iriel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Gee, after reading enough articles like this, I'm starting to think AMD should start checking /. for arguments in their Intel-monopoly lawsuit ;)

    --
    Perfecting Discordia
    www.stevenvansickle.com
    1. Re:More cannon fodder by Otter · · Score: 1
      The Ferrari laptop mentioned above was previously discussed here, and opinion ran so strongly for it being Teh Stupidest Thing EVAR! that the story was classed under "It's Funny. Laugh."

      If that sort of low-volume enthusiast novelty hardware is typical of AMD64 notebooks, it hardly requires conspiracy theories about Intel to explain why vendors (in Australia, mind you!) don't have lots of them in stock.

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    2. Re:More cannon fodder by Otter · · Score: 1
      The Ferrari laptop mentioned above was previously discussed here...

      To clarify. IIRC it was actually the 32 bit predecessor to today's mentioned laptop, although my point stands. (In fact, I saw one of those Ferrari laptops in Italy a few months ago and to give Rob Enderle credit, it is pretty stunning at first glance, although not something I'd want to look at for more than a few minutes.)

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
  7. Well... by DanielNS84 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose they were too good to just grab one from a retail place and see what us commoners would get ;) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16834115194

    --
    Marky Mark Killed Jason Bourne!
    1. Re:Well... by laptop006 · · Score: 1

      Did you read the bit that said AUSTRALIA, even express UPS from the US usually takes ~ 1 week. And they were likely promised one but it kept being delayed.

      --
      /* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
    2. Re:Well... by zdzichu · · Score: 1

      For how long batteries last for this thing? Most people are not interested in notebook without 4h+ battery work.

      --
      :wq
    3. Re:Well... by wild_berry · · Score: 1

      I wish that I could tell you, but I would like to buy one. The sites selling it list it as having around 3 hours of battery life, which I expect that to be good for an AMD notebook. Many pundits here do keep saying that the Pentium-M chip and Centrino chipset are great for long-lasting notebook batteries. AMD hasn't gone to the lengths that Intel have to make low-power Notebook chips, but they do offer notebook parts that will run AMD64.

    4. Re:Well... by CodeArtisan · · Score: 1

      I bought and AMD64 laptop a couple of weeks ago from CompUSA. Ordered on-line, picked it up the same day.

    5. Re:Well... by zdzichu · · Score: 1

      I'm going to buy some notebook at the end of the summer. While I generally prefer to buy AMD (they are more open when it comes to working with community and providing documentation), the 5h 51 minutes work time of Acer mentioned in article is tempting as hell.

      --
      :wq
    6. Re:Well... by wild_berry · · Score: 1

      The graphs are more than a bit misleading...

      5:51 for battery life is phenomenal, but you are buying integrated graphics and a 1024x768 display. But this thing is aimed at desktop work and scored above average for business content creation. I'm still shocked by a notebook computer that can manage nearly 6 hours from its batteries...

    7. Re:Well... by Harbinjer · · Score: 1

      If its battery you want, go to dynamism, and get a Panasonic R4. 9 hours they say; even if that's off the mark, you must get at least 7.5h or so.

    8. Re:Well... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      For how long batteries last for this thing? Most people are not interested in notebook without 4h+ battery work.

      I would say a good fraction (possibly even a majority) of notebook users just want a small computer they can grab and move around easily. Most of these users really don't care about battery life at all.

    9. Re:Well... by siplus · · Score: 1
      I dunno... my new 12" Powerbook can least over 5 hours if i set the monitor brightness down and don't over-use the GPU

      I haven't timed it, but I bet i could get at least 6 hours out of it if i'm careful

  8. I'd prefer an Intel laptop by Arthur+B. · · Score: 5, Funny

    Because the machine code is more optimized if I use my Intel compiler.

    --
    \u262D = \u5350
  9. Re:Pentium M processor good for desktop by DanielNS84 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They clocked up a 770 model Pentium M and it outperformed an extreme edition at lower temps. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050525/index.htm l tfa if anyone is interested :)

    --
    Marky Mark Killed Jason Bourne!
  10. No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by gilesjuk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given the limited number of experienced corperate notebook vendors using AMD, it's no wonder an Intel laptop won. Until the likes of IBM, Toshiba, Sony and others are shipping AMD notebooks then AMD based portables are going to be second best.

    1. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by manno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      RTFA, That AMD based ASUS is no joke, it's one of the best laptops out there no exceptions. I'd take a laptop made by ASUS, over any other company out there. They are hands down one of the best consumer oriented electronics companies around. I prefer AMD processors in my computers. Plain and simple I'm an underdog kind of guy. Every PC, and laptop I own uses an AMD processor, and 2 of the three PC's have ASUS motherboards to match. But truth be told in the mobile market Intel has a far superior chip. Your not going to see widespread acceptance of AMD in the mobile market, until they make a chip that's better than the Pentium M(PM). AMD's Turion is OK, but has a long way to go in terms of battery performance. The fact that the ASUS notebook did so well on the battery benchmark is a testament to ASUS's engineering more so than AMD's underlying technology. It's no coincidence that the top performers in battery performance were all from Intel. If you want to see how good a chip the PM is look at the Doom 3 numbers here:

      http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=a64 x2&page=10/

      A PM @ 2.13GHz performs exactly the same as a A64 @ 2.4GHz, And it consumes a lot less power. PM's on the mobile side are just better chips. If you're doing media creation the scales tip towards AMD, but for business apps, and typical home consumer use it's the PM's battery life that makes it so popular.

      -manno

    2. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      Alienware might not be on your list of "corperate" (even if they are sold at Best-Buy) but they are on the list of "high performance."

      Dell and Compaq may not be on that list, but they certainly should be.

      Both makers, along with numerous smaller mail order manufacturers produce good AMD Athlon and Mobile Athlon laptops. Don't tell me no one's working on the project.

    3. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by Bent+Mind · · Score: 1

      I originally followed your link because I was confused. I wasn't sure if you were saying the PM was better because of battery life, performance, or both. It was an interesting link. It also shows that the 2.13GHz PM outperformed the 3.6GHz Pentium 4 660.

      However, it didn't even come close in the non-gaming benchmarks. I wonder why?

      --
      Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
    4. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by heli0 · · Score: 1
      And it consumes a lot less power. PM's on the mobile side are just better chips


      Here is a head to head test with laptops.
      http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/hardware/notebooks/0, 39001748,39242904-2,00.htm

      BAPCo MobileMark2002 battery life (in minutes)
      Turion 2.0GHz: 197
      P-M 2.0GHz: 203

      3% battery life = "lot less"?
      --
      Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
    5. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by manno · · Score: 1

      Cool link thanks fo the info, If I'd mod you informative if I could. -manno

    6. Re:No wonder an Intel unit was the winner by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      You're right, the Inspirions are P4, something I should have remembered after commenting so many times in threads about Dell possibly offering AMDs and the ongoing anti-trust suit. I will claim I was drunk. My point would be that the models do exist, and if a reviewer wants to be reputable they shouldn't declare one side the winner if the other side never showed up to the game, whether that be because they all failed the drug test or because the other team took the bus drivers kids hostage and told him to drive in the other direction.

  11. Re:One possible explanation by panurge · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Indeed it could be. It may be too that the vendors are careful not to promote them too hard because (a) Intel may get nasty and (b) they would eat into the mainstream product lines.

    When I got my AMD64 notebook, eighteen months ago (yes, early adopter, I know) I was told it would be unreliable, run too hot, etc. etc. It has so far survived eighteen months of commuting and abuse, especially the abuse of using it as a test vehicle for a complete web server and development platform. It's still on the first HDD ("Won't last eight months...") And so far the only thing to go wrong is a little rubber foot came off (replaced with superglue.) Even though my other notebook is a P-M Thinkpad, I would recommend the AMD64 to anyone who actually needs performance.

    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  12. Pricing by zaguar · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you take anything out of this, Yanks, look at the pricings. In Australia, a developed, industrialized nation we have 150%-200% markups vs U.S. prices on almost all computing items.

    If you want to see more for yourself - look at:

    http://www.newegg.com/

    vs

    http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/

    --
    "Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
    1. Re:Pricing by ballstothat · · Score: 5, Informative
      What about currency conversion?

      Australian dollars currently trade at $1.30AU for every $1US.

      XFX Geforce 7800 at Newegg is:

      $574 dollars
      Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16814150100

      XFX Geforce 7800 at AusPCMarket is:

      $924 dollars
      Link: http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.ph p?input%5Bproduct_code%5D=VI-11PVT70F-256&input%5B category_id%5D=1339

      $574 x 1.3 = $746.20

      There is a markup, of about 20 percent. Not 150-200% as you have stated, however.

      --
      10
      20 Print "Balls To That"
    2. Re:Pricing by NovaX · · Score: 1

      umm.. did convert currency? When I was in Australia (2000) the US dollar was stronger and the conversion ratio was $1AU = $0.56US. I'm sure with the dollar dropping and Aus having a strong economy its more favorable for Australians, but that's likely a major source in the discrepency.

      There also might be issues I'm unaware of such as higher shipping and a high tax on imports.

      --

      "Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
    3. Re:Pricing by Bad+to+the+Ben · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's even more extravagant when you consider that the Australian dollar is worth 76 US cents (not great but not enough to justify that markup), and that Taiwan, where most of this stuff is made, is a hell of a lot closer to Australia (and therefore less expensive to ship to) than it is America.

      Then again, the US is a far bigger purchaser of this sort of stuff, so they probably get a bulk purchase discount or something.

    4. Re:Pricing by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      A couple of years ago, it probably would have been even less of a mark-up than that. I bet the vendors just never readjusted since the USD started tanking as severely as it is.

    5. Re:Pricing by sholden · · Score: 1

      You're also using the GST-inc price - the one that includes the 10% goods and services tax in Australia. Whereas the US price doesn't include sales tax.

      So the price you should be comparing to is the AU$840 one for a 12.5% markup.

      Then there's a 5% import duty as well, but I think that's calculated based on what the importer paid for it not what they then resell it for - but lets pretend not. In which case $840 includes a 5% tariff and hence is really $800 for a 7.2% markup. Of couse the US probably has an import duty too, but lets not let facts get in the way.

      Considering relative population sizes and hence market size that doesn't seem unreasonable.

      There's also the fact that the Australian minimum wage is AU$12.30 an hour, whereas in the USA it's US$5.15 or AU$6.70 (it's higher in some states...) so paying those shelf packers and so on will make Australian prices higher. Petrol is also more expensive so getting the stuff to the warehouse/store costs more, and so on and so on.

      Anyway <8% is a little under 200%.

    6. Re:Pricing by podperson · · Score: 2, Informative

      Australian prices include sales tax (10%) for starters.

    7. Re:Pricing by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      And, thanks to a loophole, we don't pay sales tax on items purchased from other states unless they have a location in your state.

      For example, Newegg has no warehouse in Colorado - so I don't pay any tax at all.

      You're supposed to pay the "use tax", but no one does.

    8. Re:Pricing by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Buy from Korea or China.... Oh now you shut up... ye lucky bastards :P

    9. Re:Pricing by sholden · · Score: 1

      In Australia you do, since it's a federal tax. The only way you don't pay it is you are exempt for some reason - and then you have a mountain of paperwork - or because you and the retailer is breaking the law.

      Of course you can just order from overseas, but if it's AU$500+ you'll get billed for the GST component before customs let you have it.

      In the US you tend not to, since sales tax is state level so you avoid retailers in your own state and forget to include it on your state tax return - but in Australia that's not an option.

      But that's yet another reason the pre-GST price is the one that matters when comparing prices like this.

    10. Re:Pricing by shplorb · · Score: 1

      The NewEgg price you quoted doesn't include express shipping.

      AusPC Market prices all include express shipping, plus they're not the cheapest supplier around - from what I gather they tend to stock more 'enthusiast'/hard to find (low volume) things. Just take a look at their selection of cases for example.

      I have no interest in them other than being a satisfied repeat customer.

  13. Perhaps AMD-powered Notebooks have... by Super+Nicko · · Score: 4, Informative

    a bad reputation in Australia. I haven't really noticed a lot of talk about them to be honest - most of the stuff you hear about is Intel.

    Then again, maybe the retailers in Australia just don't provide the same support for AMD as for Intel. Lawsuit, anyone? *removes tongue from cheek*

  14. Wanted! by copponex · · Score: 1, Interesting
    • 17" Laptop with 1650x1050 resolution
    • A clear, crisp display with no glossy finish that doesn't look like ass (I'm looking at you, Dell 9300/XPS Gen2!)
    • full numeric keypad
    • Turion processor
    • two memory slots
    • DVI Out!
    • NVidia GPU
    • Built-in Bluetooth

    In all likelyhood, I'll have to settle for an Apptel Powerbook and give up on Turion/NVidia. This assumes, of course, that they offer a new display on the 17". I just hope they make it out of something besides soft metal in the next revision.
    1. Re:Wanted! by mrtivo · · Score: 1

      You're pretty much describing the 9300.

      You really should consider the pretty glossy finish for the LCD. It makes everything look better.

    2. Re:Wanted! by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

      Have to settle for an Apptel Powerbook? You have never used a Powerbook or OS X, have you? I mean, actually used it? By your statement, the answer to that question is No.

      What you want has been available in an Apple Powerbook for quite a while. And will soon be powered by an Intel CPU.

      Is it the price of the current Powerbook that bothers you? If so then you should state that you are looking in a particular price range.

    3. Re:Wanted! by Mechcozmo · · Score: 1
      Soft metal? Aircraft-grade aluminum isn't soft. PowerBooks are very durable. When you drop them, they get small dents. But when you drop a plastic PC laptop, it cracks and then you're screwed. I've seen PowerBooks that have been beat to hell and still work.

      PowerBooks aren't soft by any means...

    4. Re:Wanted! by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 1

      Clevo D900K. It's an update of the Clevo D470K w/Radeon 9700 that various vendors have been selling under their own brands (GamePC, Sager, etc). No Turion, since it's Socket 939 (the D470K can take Turions), but with AMD's excellent power management that's not too big a deal in a behemoth like this. Definitely go with an Athlon 64 X2 dualcore CPU.

    5. Re:Wanted! by copponex · · Score: 1

      I had a 17" 1.67 Powerbook that was far slower than my eMachines M6805. After a small drop on my (now ex) girlfriend's 15" made it close improperly, I swore off aluminum notebooks for good and sold my 17". (I've dropped, banged, and kicked my emachines around for over a year, and though it's scratched, I can defintely attest to the durability of plastic over soft metal.)

      Plus, there are architectural apps with no equal in the Linux or Mac world that I use, and I also use QuickBooks.

      Also, the powerbook doesn't have a numeric keypad, 1440x900 resolution, or an NVidia GPU.

    6. Re:Wanted! by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      I feel your pain here. I bought an ibook g4 because i couldn't find a pc laptop that actually was 100% supported in FreeBSD or Linux. I really didn't care, just required a unix like operating system. My experience with windows shows that its always slow on laptops.

      In the end, I gave up and bought the Mac. I asked on newsgroups, etc. Most people told me things like " i bought a dell that works, but they stopped selling that model" or "I think dell just changed the video and wireless chipset again.. not sure if it works" I didn't just look at dell, but i was strongly interested in their products. I also asked about AMD64 machines and was told the systems were buggy with anything but windows.

      When will pc vendors get it? People want good hardware in laptops. No intel video cards! No brand x unsupported wireless! And for god sakes dont modify the sound card chipset!

      --
      MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
    7. Re:Wanted! by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      I've seen PowerBooks that have been beat to hell and still work.

      From my Mac OS experiences I can easily imagine why someone would like to do that *ducks*

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    8. Re:Wanted! by sector · · Score: 1

      That's probably not a bad desktop replacement machine but since the rated battery life (12 cell) is 1 hour, you won't be able to stray very far from a power outlet.

    9. Re:Wanted! by Mechcozmo · · Score: 1
      Maybe the TiBooks with OS 9... but not the new ones.

      *Throws random, heavy, object in TeknoHog's direction.

    10. Re:Wanted! by mad.frog · · Score: 1

      full numeric keypad

      You had me up till that point... I also want such a beast, but c'mon, a full numeric keypad on a *laptop*? (It's rare enough that I use the keypad on my full desktop keyboard.)

      I've seen a few such beasts, and they're freakin' huge!

      Now, I'd definitely go for a laptop that had full-size, rationally-placed arrow keys, pageup/pagedown, etc.... or even ones that are tucked away in odd places or reduced to half-size status (yes, I'm talking to YOU, Mr. Apple Powerbook Keyboard Designer Guy)... but a numeric keypad? Feh.

    11. Re:Wanted! by vrai · · Score: 1
      I'm going the same way - I want a ultra-thin laptop, no larger than 12" that has a Unix-like operating system and WiFi.

      I spent an age trying to get my Toshiba laptop working with an Orinoco PCMCIA card. In the end I had to give up on Gentoo (which I use for all my other machines) and install Ubuntu. But even that is more than a little bollocks. It works but I can't switch in and out of promiscuous at will. Once Kismet has been started I have to reboot to be able to connect to any networks. Plus I have better things to do with my life than spend days arsing about with the four million different WiFi driver models that currently exist under Linux.

      A 12" PowerBook, whilst over priced, seems to be the answer. I can develop all my Linux/Solaris applications on it, using the same tools - while having access to WiFi in a painless manner.

      The only draw-back (which may be a show stopper) is the lack of a PCMCIA slot (which bloody 10" VAIOs manage to fit in) which prevents me using a 3G card for those times when WiFi isn't possible.

      So if anyone knows of a laptop that ...

      1. Runs a Unix-esque operating system.
      2. Is very small - no larger than 12" diagonally and no more than three pounds in weight.
      3. Has WiFi that actually works. Perfectly. Out of the box. Without any fiddling other than to specify my network information.
      4. Has a PCMCIA slot for a 3G card.

      ... then please let me know.

    12. Re:Wanted! by EvilNight · · Score: 1

      I hear you man, I really do. I'm in the market for a new laptop as well, starting school shortly. I'm faced with finding a powerful laptop to use or settling for something weak, slow, but light and with good battery life instead. There's really no point in finding middle ground. Apple's got the best offerings in the small size market, and I'd probably enjoy having a Mac, it'd be my first.

      I'd still prefer a dual-core Turion, but I don't believe those are out just yet. I don't want to be burdened with ATI's craptastic graphics systems, either. Forcing me to get my driver updates from the manufacturer (who will be many revisions behind at all times, even Dell doesn't keep up) is idiotic, and that's ATI's usual policy on laptop chipsets. Nvidia is also more linux-friendly, and I'll be running a lot of linux on it.

      Really those are the two things I care about. Everything else is just icing. I need the horsepower of a dual-core since I'm going to be running multiple VMs (simultaneously) on the laptop, both for work and for school. It beats using crappy lab PCs any day. The dual core will also age considerably better... anyone who had a dual celeron (ala Abit BP6) knows exactly what I'm talking about. It'd be nice to still be using the laptop in six years without it feeling slow.

      Every decent AMD laptop I find is inevitably paired with ATI graphics chips. The Asus A6000 mentioned in this article is actually the first one I've seen that is almost exactly what I am looking for. If it were dual core I'd be ordering one right now, despite being a tad leery about Asus.

      Find me a laptop with ~8lbs- weight, dual core turion, 2+GB memory, nvidia graphics, and I'll buy it. Dual hard disks, good burner, wireless, gigabit lan, bluetooth, dvi, and HQ display are just icing. I don't care if it costs $3000.

      The Rockdirect XTreme64 is a killer laptop, using the Athlon64 4800+ desktop CPU (which is dual core) and sporting a truckload of features. It's a better unit than the ones in the infamous 'Liebermann Notebook' scam. It still has ATI graphics, unfortunately, and with that desktop processor it'll double as a hibachi and last about eight seconds on full battery. It's probably the most powerful notebook on the market, though.

      --
      Hell is being intelligent in a world full of idiots.
    13. Re:Wanted! by toddestan · · Score: 1

      A high resolution display? Full numeric keypad? A powerful processor? Current Apple Powerbooks have none of that.

    14. Re:Wanted! by poofyhairguy82 · · Score: 1
      I spent an age trying to get my Toshiba laptop working with an Orinoco PCMCIA card. In the end I had to give up on Gentoo (which I use for all my other machines) and install Ubuntu. But even that is more than a little bollocks. It works but I can't switch in and out of promiscuous at will. Once Kismet has been started I have to reboot to be able to connect to any networks.

      Wow. That sounds like my exact situation as well. I can't afford a new laptop, so here is what I did: use the word "any" (all lowercase) in the SSID blank in Ubuntu's network tool. It automatically connects to any nearby open network. You can't pick out the network in a fancy GUI tool, but my experiance is that as long as my laptop is connected I am happy.

      I agree though, that is a pain in the ass.

      --

      Open Source Sushi

  15. Offtopic possibly, but I just have to say... by Weaselmancer · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...serious bonus points for using the word "humdinger" in a tech review.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  16. problems only applicable down under? by js3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    acer does not sell every model everywhere. There are a lot of laptops that aren't sold in north american and vice versa. I had no problem getting an acer in canada, but some other laptops I wanted were only available in the EU. Maybe nobody sells amds in australia beacuse there isn't much demand for it or it's too expensive to build and send there

    --
    did you forget to take your meds?
  17. Aesthetics? by N8F8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It would be nice to have a decent picture for each model too. Personally I like to have a decent looking notebook too. I've been to quite a few meetings where people were distracted by weird looking notebooks.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:Aesthetics? by weg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually aesthetics is the unique selling point of Apple notebooks nowadays, cause the current i- and Power-Books are really lame with respect to performance (I'm not an Apple hater.. I own a brand new Powerbook myself). But as long as the other manufacturers make sure that their notebooks look like cheap toys there will always be somebody (like me ;-)) who buys Apple notebooks.

      --
      Georg
  18. ASUS in Italy, not in USA by mennucc1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I live in Italy, and often travel to USA: I noted that ASUS notebooks (that are quite common here - my university also bought a dozen to lend to students writing thesis) are not usually found in USA (actually it was a professor there who also noted and commented "I see all you italians arriving with ASUS notebooks that here are nowhere to be found). I wonder why.

    1. Re:ASUS in Italy, not in USA by nemattoad · · Score: 2, Informative

      Asus notebooks are also beginning to gain huge popularity here in Canada.

    2. Re:ASUS in Italy, not in USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      ASUS laptops are quite popular in Australia as well..

    3. Re:ASUS in Italy, not in USA by poity · · Score: 1

      ASUS notebooks are widely available in the USA.

      The reason you don't see them much is because many are rebranded by the resellers. Those not rebranded (the ASUS Ensemble line) suffer from lack of major marketing.


      www.discountlaptops.com
      www.istnc.com
      www.powernotebooks.com
      www.c9tech.com
      www.agearnotebooks.com
      www.proportable.com

      are just a FEW of the many USA based online resellers who offer ASUS laptops.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  19. Wrong priorities by trevdak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now his troubles are all great and nice and whatnot, don't get me wrong, but isn't the point of him writing an article so that we don't have to go through the same trouble he did? I'd rather hear something in the summary about which one actually did better....

  20. HP makes Athlon64 notebooks... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 3, Informative

    And they're easy to buy. Just go to HP's online shopping kiosk. I've been using a Presario R3240 for about6-7 months (athlon64 3200+) and am quite happy with the performance.

    Cheers,

    1. Re:HP makes Athlon64 notebooks... by zenneth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A little info regarding HP's service. My mother bought a nice little A64 3200+ laptop from BestBuy, a Pavilion zv6000. It came with 512mb of RAM, DVDR, 80gb of HD and a dedicated 128mb Radeon X200m. She'd had it for a little over a month when, after removing a PCMCIA Buffalo Wireless card, a small brass pin fell out of the slot.

      Needless to say, she spent the requisite time getting the situation handled. First, she tried the "Live Chat" on HP's support page. The person who first had contact with her appeared very helpful, yet was actually no help at all. When she contacted them using the telephone, she began getting the runaround. They tried to tell her that it was physical damage, which it certainly wasn't. My mother isn't so well off that she'd spend $1200 on anything and then trash it. Eventually, she received a call from a very nice support representative who contacted her several more times, both before and after receiving the replacement.

      Speaking of which, she ended up with a brand-new Pavilion from the factory. A64 3500+, 1gb RAM, 100gb HD, and still the dedicated 128mb Radeon X200m. She had to reinstall her software, etc, but it ended up almost being worth the hassle, IMHO.

      Moral of the story: Stay away from the online support, and contact HP directly via the telephone.

      --
      The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
  21. I built an AMD 64 laptop-just two weeks ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, not really built, just bought a bare AMD 64 Uniwill laptop from coboc.com, and inserted an AMD 64 3700+, 1.25 GB RAM, a wireless abg mini-PCI card, a 100GB 5400 Momentum Seagate drive and a DVD writer.

    There was no shortage of bare AMD 64 laptops, the package arrived in one day.

    I had lots of spare components, I only had to pay about $750 (CA Tax and shipping included). I did not have to buy a CPU,HD, DVD-writer or a wireless card, all these components existed already in our lab. I had no spare laptop memory; however, I managed to 'extract' 1GB+256MB RAM cards from other laptops in our lab.

    I installed two 64 bit OS-es, Suse 9.3 64bit+ Solaris 10. Works great.

    1. Re:I built an AMD 64 laptop-just two weeks ago by jejones · · Score: 1

      Well, not really built, just bought a bare AMD 64 Uniwill laptop from coboc.com...

      Just looked over at coboc.com, and didn't find any AMD Uniwill laptops, just Intel ones. Where and which one did you find?

  22. Some hot temps there... by Bad+to+the+Ben · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some of those laptops are real toasters judging by the thermal tests there. The Toshiba Tecra is 45.6C under the base and exhaust air is 43C. Wouldn't want that sitting on my lap too long. Cooler models would probably yield increased battery life as well (more efficiency, less energy loss to powering fans).

    One thing I'd like to see taken into account in these types of tests is how hot laptops such as this perform outside the lab. In Australia, 37C temps are not uncommon outdoors during summer. If this Tecra tested that high in a lab, how will it hold up outside in that kind of heat? I mean, half the benefit of having a laptop is being able to use it outside the nice, comfortably AC'ed office. If I got BSODs due to thermal problems, I'd be pissed.

    1. Re:Some hot temps there... by Bad+to+the+Ben · · Score: 1

      I don't know, say on the bus (about half the buses around here don't have AC)? Sitting in an unairconditioned cafe? Hell, if I was a salesperson at someone's unairconditioned house it'd probably be close to that temperature INSIDE, and I'd want to use my laptop.

      There are a lot of reasons why I would need something that operates in those temperatures (which I don't consider to be a big ask), and I doubt some of these hotter models are up to the task (some of the cooler ones might be). If all I could do with my laptop was use it in an office, I might as well buy a Mac Mini, carry it with me, and borrow a monitor at the other end.

    2. Re:Some hot temps there... by lokedhs · · Score: 1

      I used my Powerbook all the time in Singapore, even inside without AC. I can't say it behaved any differently compared to when running it in an air conditioned office. The fans weren't running more than usual etc.

    3. Re:Some hot temps there... by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 1

      My Intel Pentium M 735 (Dothan, 1.7 GHz, 400 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2 cache) runs at about 50C idle and 96C full load. It seems absolutely insanely high, but it works--what can I say?

      Is it true that Pentium M's can run up to insane temperatures? (I heard the limit is higher on the Pentium M than the Pentium 4...)

      --
      ttuttle is a rankmaniac
    4. Re:Some hot temps there... by ettlz · · Score: 1

      This is insanely high. Dothan's only rated up to 100C (see the Intel thermal guide), so you're certainly pushing the envelope. Assuming that the temperature report is accurate, check the fans are spinning and check for dust. Such high temperatures, plus a delta-T of 46C, will do the other internal components no good whatsoever. On the other hand, the reported temperature could be a complete load of bollocks brought on by a buggy BIOS or faulty sensor --- which can't be ruled out given that (a) your machine hasn't died yet; and (b) you've not been physically burned by it.

    5. Re:Some hot temps there... by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 1

      The fan is certainly spinning (it's pretty loud), and there's no dust severely clogging it (there's some on the center motor part, but none where it shouldn't be). It does spit hot air out the back, so I assume something's working. It does get a little hot to the touch (not where you will burn yourself by touching it, but where if you leave the laptop on your bare legs for a while your skin will be a little red.) I do wonder sometimes if the sensor is a bit screwed up, since it rarely goes below 46-48 degrees even after cooling down for a long time. (Interestingly, it seems to be working a little better today--the temperature is changing a lot more quickly and it was slowing down as it reached 85.) The hard drive is actually hotter externally, since it's not explicitly cooled and is closer to the bottom panel of the laptop. It's only been up to 50 itself, and is normally around 45. I'm running a script to record speed and temperature over a long period, if I manage to get it graphed with gnuplot I'll reply to myself and you can take a look.

      --
      ttuttle is a rankmaniac
    6. Re:Some hot temps there... by Prophet+of+Nixon · · Score: 1

      Actually, Tecras run with almost no noticable heat unless you stress the 3D cards in them. As soon as the 3D card gets used, an extra fan turns on, and it vents hot exhaust out the left side. Strangely, after prolonged use, the vent air actually cools off quite a bit. During this the bottom gets a bit warm, but overall the vent keeps the system pretty cool (the bottom is nowhere near 45.6C and the exhaust air is hotter than the bottom). Wouldn't want to think about that fan breaking though.

    7. Re:Some hot temps there... by ettlz · · Score: 1
      ...if I manage to get it graphed with gnuplot I'll reply to myself and you can take a look.

      Please note, I'm not an expert on notebook cooling, I was largely making a pointer to the Intel specs. However, if I had a notebook getting that hot, I'd probably take it back if still under warranty; otherwise, I'd probably have the cover off and use a calibrated probe. I'd wonder whether it's actually getting that hot... perhaps you could try tracking the temperature from a thermally cold start to see if the measurement suddenly "jumps" to an unreasonable value?

    8. Re:Some hot temps there... by asbjxrn · · Score: 1

      I don't know what kind of Powerbook you have, but I'm using my Powerbook every day in Singapore and without AC, the fan turn on almost as soon as I try do anything, and kick in high gear if I stress the cpu. With AC, the fan is a lot quiter, and rarely go into overdrive.

    9. Re:Some hot temps there... by lokedhs · · Score: 1

      15" 1.5 GHz. I'm going down there in a month again, and I'll take better note of the fan activity this time. :-)

  23. Tiny.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This company used to sell alot of AMD notebooks but I know 3 people with them and all 3 laptops suffer from overheating (thats what you get when you stick a 3700+ in a laptop I guess) they have stopped selling some of the top models :(

    1. Re:Tiny.com by iainl · · Score: 1

      That is probably because they're made by Tiny than anything to do with AMD however; I've never seen a machine from them that hasn't caused the owner headache. They've infamous here in the UK.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  24. Better pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No. We have nuclear weapons. The Australians have koala bears. End of story.

    1. Re:Better pricing by witte · · Score: 1

      I said, do NOT taunt happy fun koala !

    2. Re:Better pricing by BSpeerTX · · Score: 1

      Watch out for those boomerangs too.

    3. Re:Better pricing by pauldl63 · · Score: 1

      a koala is NOT a bear,it is a marsupial

      --
      I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
    4. Re:Better pricing by Bandraginus · · Score: 1
      Hah! Shows how much you know about Australia.

      You obviously haven't heard about Drop Bears... the evil cousin of the koala:
      http://www.cfr.com.au/dropbears/
      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3695/db.htm

  25. i'd still by mad27 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    buy a powerbook any day of the week

  26. Intel is better then AMD... for Linux. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative


    If your seasoined linux geek the advantages of Intel over AMD should be fairly obvious.

    I am not talking about cpus per say... AMD64 cpus rock (and pentium-m is great for embedded stuff) but for the entire platform.

    For instance the Intel Sonoma platform...

    You have updated graphics with good compatability and full Free Software (tm) DRI support for the GMA 900 series and probably for GMA 950.

    You may need to hit up the cvs servers for the latest in GMA 950 support at this time.. but both the DRI in X and the DRM in the kernel (as of 2.6.12) are aviable in the form of 915 drivers.

    Intel released documentation to DRI to get this to happen...

    Intel's Wireless support is also good for Linux. No fucking around with Linuxant for the official 'centrino' platforms (beware of vendors sticking in their own broadcom wifi units.. always pick intel).

    ACPI support should be good.. if not it will be.

    With AMD platforms you have to deal with a mixture of random wifi cards and random ATI or Nvidia graphics.

    Nvidia support is OK, thru their excelent (+5 points) and closed source (-5 points) drivers for Linux. ATI sucks (-5 points) and closed source drivers (-5 points) should be avoided at all costs... and it's very difficult to find Nvidia on a laptop platform.

    So if your looking for a new Linux laptop and you know what your doing and you want good support for your hardware thru free software then pick out Intel Centrino 'sonoma' laptops with GMA 900 or GMA 950 graphics (don't bother with ATI, and get Nvidia if you need the upgraded 3d speeds) and Intel wifi.

    Fast, good performance, decent 3d performance (enough for quake3 and 90% of decent games for Linux) good battery life (better then the ibook (the latpop I currently use)) and it's generally more expensive and/or more lightweight then going after a AMD-based laptop.

    Now if your building a desktop... AMD almost always. AMD64s are better then Pentium 4's...

  27. Not quite that for which you asked, but it's close by ValentineMSmith · · Score: 1
    I realize that you had DVI Out in bold, but if you are willing to pass on that and are willing to accept an ATI video card instead of the NVidia, here's a machine in which you may be interested.

    I have one of them myself, and have been very happy with it so far.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
  28. A ZDnet review by nemattoad · · Score: 1

    Well this is just about as trustworthy as nothing :)

  29. Uh...? by Hack+Jandy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Problem Solved

    HJ

  30. How much by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    would this have cost had you not stolen most of the components? (Serious question.)

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  31. Only vendor submitted laptops? by Cromac · · Score: 4, Insightful
    After much chasing, only two vendors submitted an AMD-powered product -- MSI and Asus.

    So they only test laptops they are given? Why should we trust them to have an unbiased opinion or that they have actually done the best AMD/Intel comparision possible in that case? They should buy commercial laptops just like any individual or admin would do and test those, not just what they can get given to them by potential advertisers.

    1. Re:Only vendor submitted laptops? by damiangerous · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Expensive products like this aren't usually just "given" to the magazines to test. They're usually submitted for testing and must be returned afterwards.

  32. Ferrari 4000 by Brian+Stretch · · Score: 1

    Or it's because it's been replaced with the Acer Ferrari 4000, which is a much nicer design.

    Though if you're looking for Overkill, you can't beat the Clevo D900K series.

    1. Re:Ferrari 4000 by Otter · · Score: 2, Funny
      I dunno -- seems to me if you're going to go for the vulgarity of a Ferrari computer, the utter vulgarity of the all-red model beats the subdued vulgarity of the new rev.

      On the other hand, the Tulip E-Go on that site is genuinely stunning. I don't know how many customers there are for a 64-bit laptop that looks like a tulip-covered handbag, though. And 283,000 Euros for the diamond-encrusted model is a bit steep -- maybe Lil' Kim would want one.

      In any case, I bet you can't just call up and get a review model of that in Australia, either.

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
  33. Re:One possible explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I got my AMD64 notebook, eighteen months ago (yes, early adopter, I know) I was told it would be unreliable, run too hot, etc. etc. It has so far survived eighteen months of commuting and abuse, especially the abuse of using it as a test vehicle for a complete web server and development platform. It's still on the first HDD ("Won't last eight months...")

    Usually followed by the computer salesman's pitch for their extended warranty.

  34. I want my AMD. by th3space · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My last few computers (desktop and laptop alike) have been AMD powered, and I've been very impressed with the reliability and performance that they have brought to me. For example, my Athlon64 3000+ laptop has been running like a champ for the past 3 months...my new P4 work box is two months old and has already needed to be replaced once and repaired twice.

    I'm never switching back, never, never, never. I need to get my hands on a PPC PowerBook soon, because the Intel jump at Apple concerns me...

    --
    "How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
    1. Re:I want my AMD. by cnettel · · Score: 1
      What parts were affected in the P4 box? I have so far cosidered the chance of atual hardware failure as an important difference. Maybe reliability from the chipset (Via 686B for both Intel and AMD, anyone?), but not actual failure.

      So, have you any reason to really attribute this to the CPU? Rather sounds like cheap stuff overall in your work box.

      And, yes, my next desktop machine will probably be a dual-core AMD, just like I might stick to Pentium M-based stuff in laptops for a while. Those are nice, while the mobile AMD offerings are continually getting nicer...

    2. Re:I want my AMD. by th3space · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it wasn't the CPU that failed, but more likely it was the HDD (in the case of repair) and the mainboard (in the case of replacement)...but it's not as though this is an isolated incident. Just about every Intel box I've owned or used has been mired with problems (don't even get me started on the last one I built...last AMD I built had similar hardware and worked fine).

      --
      "How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
  35. gripe(s) by i_c_andrade · · Score: 1

    besides it being hard to find AMD64 laptops to compare to, they all have the Radion 9700 chipset. Dangit, where is my PCI-Express AMD64 laptop?

  36. Re:Not quite that for which you asked, but it's cl by Skraut · · Score: 1
    Some of us run Linux.

    Accepting ATI is not an option

    --
    Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
  37. Re:Also compare with desktops by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

    No. Sorry. You can't just compare the two. I seem to remember something about apples and oranges?

    There are costs with making laptops that don't exist for desktops. Fabbing for power efficiency is more expensive. If it weren't more expensive, all those technologies would be in desktops too. Laptop drives have to be able to withstand many more starts and stops than desktop drives. The displays must be extremely thin, less than 1/4" thick and a lot more power efficient, so you can't just compare that cost with desktop displays.

    That, and a LOT more stores have $500 laptops than you give credit for.

  38. Re:Not quite that for which you asked, but it's cl by ValentineMSmith · · Score: 1

    For your info, that machine's primary O.S. is Ubuntu 5.04 64 bit. I've not had any problems getting the Radeon drivers up and running in Ubuntu. I did have a problem getting the 802.11g drivers working in Ubuntu, but I had a different mini-PCI Wifi card available that I knew worked. Other than that (and some minor problems getting things to suspend to memory), it works.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
  39. Not my experience... by copponex · · Score: 1

    Drop a powerbook 6" from a tile kitchen floor. If it hits perpendicularly on a corner, it will blow apart if you're unlucky, or simply dent if you are lucky. If it lands somewhat obliquely, the case will be permanently bent.

    Take a sheet of thick aluminum (aircraft grade or not) and bang it with a hammer. It's going to dent, bend, and be nearly impossible to return to a flat surface without re-rolling it. Take a sheet of thick plastic, and bang on it for as long as you want to. It's going to maintain the same shape unless you shatter it.

    Aluminum is a great material for structure, but not for finishes in panels, especially when it's as thin as it is in Powerbooks.

  40. My issue is with the little fans- not the power by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    Most powersupplies are good.

    The 80mm fans are quiet now for about 10 bucks.

    The 120mm fans are dead quiet.

    But the 50mm fans are very noisy and induce a lot of case vibration because they have to turn so fast. These are usually on the chip set. I have been unable to find a solution. Does anyone else have one?

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:My issue is with the little fans- not the power by nmos · · Score: 1

      Often you can remove the small heatsink+fan and replace it with a much larger heatsink. The Arctic Silver folks have an epoxy version of their heatsink compound so you don't have to worry about clipping the new heatsink down. I've actually had good luck with Superglue but I have no idea what it might do to the plastic chip packaging long term.

    2. Re:My issue is with the little fans- not the power by toddestan · · Score: 1

      But the 50mm fans are very noisy and induce a lot of case vibration because they have to turn so fast. These are usually on the chip set. I have been unable to find a solution. Does anyone else have one?

      My solution is to just shop around until you find a motherboard without the little chipset fan. I hate them - not only are they noisy but those little chipset and graphics card fans seem to be the most unreliable too.

  41. Acer Ferrari 4005 by wild_berry · · Score: 1

    http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=acer+ferrari+4 005wlmi

    2.0GHz Turion ML-37 chip with a Mobility Radeon X700, 1680x1050 native resolution 15.4" WSVGA screen, multi-layer DVDRW, 1GB DDR333 RAM, 100GB (only 5400 rpm) HDD, 10/100/1000 LAN, 802.11b/g & bluetooth wireless and predicted 3 hr battery life.

    I would like one of those, please.

  42. here by lazlizard · · Score: 1

    i am readig this on your turion laptop with ati x700 pci xpress and you can't have it back. You can buy another here http://www.evesham.com/PCs/Info.asp?e=29C15A00-EB6 2-4198-BA26-D6E8D206A299

  43. Here's what I'm looking for... by sector · · Score: 1

    Okay, I'm invoking the powers of /. to find me a laptop. Here's what I'm looking for:

    - 15" - 17" widescreen. I'd prefer non-reflective since it seems the glossy displays would be useless outside on my deck, for example.
    - 1600x1050 resolution or better
    - 2GHz Pentium-M or better (or AMD equivilant)
    - 2 memory slots
    - Trackpoint controller
    - Battery life > 3.5 hours.

    Let's call this a pseudo-desktop replacement machine - one that will become my primary workstation but one that from time to time will perform telescope control/image acquisition. To avoid possible ground loop issues, I prefer the laptop be self-powered rather than plugging into the same batteries powering the telescope(s) and CCD.

    I fear the trackpoint requirement is going to eliminate most the affordable candidates.

    1. Re:Here's what I'm looking for... by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      The Acer Travelmate 8104 meets most of that, I think. I use one as my main desktop work machine and it's very nice. The screen is 1680x1050 15.3@ widescreen, 2Gz Sonoma, 1Gb RAM, 100Gb HDD.

    2. Re:Here's what I'm looking for... by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      Apart from the trackpoint, of course. I'd prefer an external optical mouse, personally: you can use them virtually anywhere you can a laptop.

    3. Re:Here's what I'm looking for... by mad.frog · · Score: 1

      Trackpoint controller

      I'll second that.... I find the touchpads nearly unusable. Though, to be fair, trackpoints are also in the just-barely-usable range IMHO, so I end up carrying a mouse around most of the time...

      I guess it's time for someone to invent a better laptop-oriented-mouse-substitute.

    4. Re:Here's what I'm looking for... by Cheetahfeathers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I would really love to see is something like the trackpoint, but with a little trackball instead of a nub in the center of the keyboard.

  44. It should be noted that these are not laptops... by Animaether · · Score: 1

    ...these are notebooks. Just to go over the difference again:
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=14205 8&cid=11906247

    So, no, you wouldn't want this sitting in your lap, as they aren't laptops.

    (Note also that the article only once mentions 'laptop', on the first page, in reference to typical application of a particular chipset.)

  45. An unaddressed option... by ant_slayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have owned a Compaq R3200 series with a 3200+ for about a year now. One thing I find frustrating is that reviewers rarely run the machine the way I do. I use my box for a LAN party machine (or did, before the integrated GeForce 4 lost sight of the curve), but it's always plugged in. I use it for some computational work, sound processing, and Blendering as a hobby -- but it's always plugged in.

    Sure, it's warm, but it's also sitting on my coffee table, my kitchen table, my Panera table, my desk, or my mattress. The heat doesn't really bother me then. And it kicks every Pentium M's butt I've ever played with.

    Yet, these reviewers don't do what I do when I unplug -- instead of running Windows benchmarks and all that crap, I run Linux. A simple echo out to /sys/... and I clock it where I want. I turn the brightness down, etc. Lo and behold, a year+ after purchase, I still get about 2.5 hours of battery life (vast approaching the 3 hours I got with a dopey 1.4ghz Pentium M I had at my last company from Dell).

    Who needs 2 ghz to pound away in emacs on the train?

    -Ant Slayer-

  46. Re:Not quite that for which you asked, but it's cl by tmilam · · Score: 1

    ATI drivers have gotten alot better. A new ATI driver was released in July....it even has a graphical installer this time. I am running an ATI card on linux with absolutely no problems.

  47. Where's the Verb? by Mignon · · Score: 1
    AMD and Intel Notebooks Head to Head

    What for? A pissing contest?

  48. Ohh, you're wrong about that. by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I'd LIKE to have a huge battery life in my notebook, it's not all that important to me. I use a notebook for all my work; at the office and when I got home I take it with me. I have a docking station at the office and a power supply at home that I sometimes take with me when I'm on call and I'm going to be away for the weekend or something.

    The fact is, I'm always where there's power available. I don't need to use the machine on an airplane for 6 hours. I don't need to use my computer on a park bench all day.

    Most of the guys I work with do the same thing. Our machines don't have the best battery life but it's good enough for the long meetings or logging in to check e-mail from the road. That extra two or three hours time on the battery just wouldn't matter.

    I'd rather have a really powerful notebook that I can use as a desktop replacement for work that I can take home with me then a slower unit that has longer batttery life.

    I'm not the only one that feels this way.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:Ohh, you're wrong about that. by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I'd LIKE to have a huge battery life in my notebook

      If you can get the power requirements low enough, I'll take 10 years please ;)

      http://www.physorg.com/news4081.html

      screw the wall outlet I want a laptop where you have to replace the system before the battery dies ;)

      before someone say's 'but what about the radiation' if it's safe enough to put inside someone's pace maker, then it's can be designed safe enough to build into a laptop..

      --
      https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
    2. Re:Ohh, you're wrong about that. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Yea, the only time battery life will change the way I use my notebook is if the battery lasts for at least a week of heavy use.

      10 years would be nice =)

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  49. Shameless Advertisement - Acer Ferrari 4005 by DaedalusLogic · · Score: 1

    The Acer Ferrari isn't impossible to find, they are in high demand though. It's all about timing. If anyone wants one, I have them for sale at http://www.cts-llc.net/ for $2098. Free shipping to anywhere in the US.

    I haven't had a chance to play with a Ferrari yet, but I sell TravelMate's and Aspire's all the time. They're well built, have excellent LCD screens, and an extended warranty only costs you $99 for 2 years of additional coverage.

    We don't sell outside of the United States, sorry Nigeria!

  50. Here's a fun test: Call Dell by popo · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Call Dell and ask for an AMD based machine.

    You'll get a very scripted answer of how AMD suffers compatibility problems, overheating, and is slower than Intel.

    I asked if AMD had any chips that were faster than Intel (you know like the 64 bit dual core CPU's which every gamer knows well).

    The answer? "No, AMD is really a second rate product and is not reliable". He followed with "Nobody is looking for AMD. They are really very junky."

    Amazing! "Junky!" One must wonder why then is Intel now copying AMD's "junky" architecture?

    Apparently no one told this guy that HP, Sun Microsystems, Lenovo (Thinkpad), and Hitatchi all went AMD within days after the lawsuit was filed.

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  51. Re:Intel is better then AMD... for Linux. by popo · · Score: 1


    Better how? If ease of locating and installing graphics drivers is your basis of evaluating CPU's then ... sure... but that's an odd way of evaluating a CPU.

    But since my Linux box is (like most others I imagine) a server and not a game machine ... that's not really the issue.

    For those looking for a faster CPU with superior architecture (typically how I like to evaluate a CPU) there's no contest.

    AMD's 64-bit dual-core architecture spanks Intel.

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    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  52. AMD Lawsuit by popo · · Score: 1

    ... knows the truth. Intel *will* lose the AMD lawsuit.

    Prediction: Intel gets their ass handed to them over the AMD lawsuit. First in Europe, then (after another year of wrangling) in the U.S.

    Just wait until Dell gets subpoenaed. That's when the real fun will begin.

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    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  53. The different AMD power specs by glwtta · · Score: 1
    I was looking for a nice Turion notebook recently and found something odd: as I understand it, AMD makes two lines of those chips, the ML which are supposed to output 35 watts (or rather not more than 35), and the MT which is 25.

    I must've looked through pretty much every single model from HP, Acer and Asus (and a few others) and could not find a single one with an MT processor - is there a reason for this, or did I just miss it? A couple of reviews mentioned that there isn't much of a price difference between the two, so I don't think that's it.

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    sic transit gloria mundi
  54. Total overkill on the laptops involved by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    you can get decent ones for under $1000 that will do about 90 percent as much as the ones used in the review.

    You won't surf the net faster by overkill, and in the end it's the DRAM (amount, speed) that will impact you more, unless you're doing gaming or some heavy graphics.

    Just my humble opinion.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  55. Re:Pentium M processor good for desktop by Bitmanhome · · Score: 1

    Holy crapulation, the spread between the fastest chip and the slowest P4 reviewed is only 15%. Is the drought really this bad? If I try to upgrade my 2-year old 3.06 at work, I can only get maybe 20%.

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    Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
  56. ASUS make iBooks? by bach37 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Doesn't the ASUS company make the mobo for the current iBooks?

  57. Re:Pentium M processor good for desktop by DanielNS84 · · Score: 1

    Do yourself a favor and cruise on over to newegg... Pick up a good MSI or Asus Athlon64 Motherboard based on the NF4 Ultra chipset (Or DFI if you OC) Get yourself a 3000+ Venice or 3700+ San Diego (1mb L2, Don't get the 3800+ Venice) because for the money they just can't be beat. The 3200 Venice is also a good value and both can be OCed to 2.7 to 2.9ghz respectively depending on how good of a chip you get. Grab a 120mm Zalman CPU fan and you've got yourself a cool running easily overclocked extremely fast new setup. I have an old winchester 3000+ running @ 2.5ghz with a 30c idle temp and I score about the same as fx-53's in benchmarks. AMD is the best at the moment...wait until Intel get's pushed against a wall and lowers their prices or improves their processors before buying more of their processors.

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    Marky Mark Killed Jason Bourne!
  58. koalas by phorm · · Score: 1

    From what I remember of my last visit to Aus, the koalas have some pretty damn big claws. They'd make for good sneak-assassins (awwww cuteaarrrrrggh).

    Just sniff the air for Eucalyptus... Koalas can be quite fragrant so you'll smell 'em coming. Of course they also sleep for 22h of the day so they're not very efficient...

  59. HP ZD series by phorm · · Score: 1

    My HP zd7000 has been working quite nicely - with the exception of a nasty defect wherein the RAM has issues when DIMM slot 2 is filled (not in the later models). It has a 17" display, with 1440x900 (close to what you want), a full keyboard, two memory slots, NVidia GPU, and I think it has bluetooth (but I have no BT devices).

  60. Re:One possible explanation by panurge · · Score: 1

    I can see you've never run a full J2EE platform on a laptop and got it to do some serious work. Our web server environment includes updates across large databases, document format translation, customised email to address lists, and OLAP on a memory resident database. It's not some flat file database with a little PHP, you know. Now support a load of simultaneous users each running in their own context and watch the HDD swapping. Whereas how much load do games typically put on the HDD and the Ethernet ports? And, in fact, excluding the video card (not the reason for buying a laptop, usually) what is the average processor load?

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    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  61. Re:One possible explanation by pnatural · · Score: 1

    I can see you've never run a full J2EE platform on a laptop and got it to do some serious work.

    And I can see you have zero concept of how a computer works. Load is load, if it's running your fancy J2EEeeeek or if it's running a million instances of Tux Racer. Both consume the available resources (one for work, the other to meet Suns Marketing Department requirements).

  62. Re:Pentium M processor good for desktop by Bitmanhome · · Score: 1

    The problem is that the review compared P4s to 3.6 GHz, Athlons to 2.6 GHz, and PMs to 2.5 GHz (yes, heavily overclocked.) The average spread between the P4 3200 and whichever chip made it to the top was 15%. I have trouble believing it myself, as I thought we were past that. But those charts only show 15%.

    Even if I do get a 3700 and overclock it, the boost would not be enough to make a whole new machine worthwile.

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    Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
  63. Pentium M still outperforms A64/Turion by poity · · Score: 1

    in both energy and processing efficiency

    GamePC benchmarks

    Clock for clock, the P-M is faster and uses less power.

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    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    1. Re:Pentium M still outperforms A64/Turion by KillShill · · Score: 1

      and is vastly more expensive (400-600+).

      for the exact same machine. most p-m systems come with half the ram, less hd space, lower quality screens and cost 400-600 dollars more.

      gee i wonder why...

      it couldn't be the massive amount of cache on the chip? or the fact that intel is a piece of shit company that can only strongarm vendors to use only intel chips?

      fwiw, intel will never see a penny from me ever.

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      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
  64. Did anyone else notice by solomonrex · · Score: 1

    The flood of AMD powered computers in the sales circulars immediately after the lawsuit announcement? Or is this the delayed result of a knee-jerk reaction to Intel's Apple move?

  65. Re:One possible explanation by adachan · · Score: 1

    Agreed, Very similar experience here.

  66. Re:Pentium M processor good for desktop by DanielNS84 · · Score: 1

    You have to take into account quite a few things...benchmark-wise a 3700 will perform as well as a 3.7ghz P$ with HT (As the name insinuates) but you can easily OC it to 25% to 50% depending on the cooling, which makes it an EXTREMELY fast processor faster than anything else stock on the market. There's also the onboard memory controller which I've found has dropped my latency to extreme levels (35ns latency, 3158MB write speed, 7600MB read speed) but then again I use OCZ VX (Which perform HORRIBLY on P4's). Honestly I would take a 3000+ Venice any day or a 4ghz P4 because of the overclocking potential. Hell I've been running my 3000+ winchester @ 2.5ghz for months now without even a hiccup. Plus you can practically steal a PCIE motherboard for an Athlon64 system now and the processors are also a lot cheaper.

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    Marky Mark Killed Jason Bourne!
  67. Re:One possible explanation by kesuki · · Score: 1

    It is very interesting that it's the stupid and/or poor who buy extended warranties.

    It is very interesting that the stupid/poor buy $400 trashputers that fry out in 3 months, because the powersupply can at peek produce 20 fewer watts than the system needs to properly intialize everything on board... and thus can actually use the extended warranty. except that they then get thier trashputer replaced with an equally trashy trashputer, that has been tried with various defective parts until it can boot up at least once without crashing by a minimum wage 'tech'

    Maybe the really poor shouldn't be buying computers, but then that's an entrie econmic sector that they're missing out on, onw where potentially they could earn enough to pull themselves out of poverty.

    Maybe the problem isn't with the poor/stupid, but with the digerati, who assume if you're buying a $400 computer you're a POS and you don't matter, and your hardware can fry in 3 days because they don't have to replace it if they can just blame the 'end user'.. of have such exorbinant labor fees, that even if the part is replaced 'free' it costs more than the computer to get it fixed without a warrenty...

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    https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
  68. What about the Acer Aspire 1520 series? by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 1

    The Acer Aspire 1524 comes with a Athlon64 34000+, 15,4'' WXGA TFT LCD 1280x800, NVidia GeForce FX Go 5700 64MB, 80GB HD, DVD-+RW, 512MB RAM, 802.11 b/g wireless LAN and, to top things out, a PCMCIA 5 in 1 memory card reader. I bought one a couple of months ago for 1200 and I have to say, it rocks. It is a shame it isn't listed on the article. The only thing which is a downer is the wireless modem. It is only supported under windows. To make matters worse, the windows drivers are only 32bits. So, I am forced to run 32bit linux and running ndiswrapper just because of the lack of linux support. When will they learn?? Besides that problem, it is a great machine and, compared with the other laptops in the article, a great product and a great price.

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    Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
  69. Integrated graphics by bsquizzato · · Score: 1

    You have to take into account though that the intel processors also have to do the Vertex Shading work when it comes to graphics rendering... are you saying it still outperforms the A64 in processing efficiency even then?

  70. Re:One possible explanation by pipingguy · · Score: 1


    One theory is that the quality of manufacturing these days is so poor that "extended warranties" might not be such a stupid choice for major purchases. My ancient 15" no-name monitor lasted for 7 years or so. Both of my higher-end Mitsubishi CRTs ($500+ each) crapped out shortly after the 3 year warranty.

  71. Re:Not quite that for which you asked, but it's cl by poofyhairguy82 · · Score: 1
    ATI drivers have gotten alot better. A new ATI driver was released in July....it even has a graphical installer this time. I am running an ATI card on linux with absolutely no problems.

    True..but:

    A. ATI drivers do not accerate the composite extension. No xcompmgr or neat 2D eye candy.

    B. ATI drivers work like crap with Cedega.

    And that why I recently bought an Nvidia card...

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    Open Source Sushi

  72. Update... by wild_berry · · Score: 1

    Further research has shown that the Evesham Voyager A210 has the Turion MT37 up to four hours of battery life, on integrated graphics. Its bigger brother, the Voyager A410 has Mobility Radeon X700 but an expected battery life of only 2.5 hours. The Evesham Quest Roma is a better price for the same specification as the Voyager A410.