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U.K. SF Writers Dominate Hugos

gollum123 writes "The BBC reports that For the first time in its 63-year history, all the writers nominated for the prestigious Hugo award for the best novel are British." From the article: "Mr Stross says that what an author writes is a reflection of his society, and currently US genre writers are mirroring the 'deep trauma' that 9/11 wrought on America. 'What we write tends to reflect our perceptions of the world around us,' he says, 'and if it's an uncertain world full of shadows it's no surprise you get wish fulfilment or a bit downbeat.'"

290 comments

  1. but but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    But what about your bombs? Where's your trauma?

    1. Re:but but but by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Too soon- just wait for next year when the Hugos will be dominated by the only people left to have any hope at all: Islamic Jihadists!

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. SF Writers Dominate Hugos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did anyone else ignore the U.K., read SF Writers Dominate Hugos and then think, oh those Slashdot editors?

    1. Re:SF Writers Dominate Hugos by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did anyone else... read SF Writers Dominate Hugos and then think, oh those Slashdot editors?

      Sorry, I'll fix it in CVS. Oh, wait...

    2. Re:SF Writers Dominate Hugos by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Yup, that's how I first read it, but no, I didn't think "oh those Slashdot editors". Instead I thought, "cool, I'm sick of fantasy stories winning what is supposed to be basically an SF award. Fantasy has it's own awards!

      Anyway, I've been losing respect for the Hugos for some time now. The Hugo voters seem to be increasingly insular and out-of-touch. My favorite genre awards right now are the Locus Awards, which usually have more voters than the Hugo and Nebula combined. Plus, they have separate categories for fantasy and SF.

    3. Re:SF Writers Dominate Hugos by pnh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the Hugo Awards are explicitly for both fantasy and SF:

      Section 3.3: Categories.

      3.3.1: Best Novel. A science fiction or fantasy story of forty thousand (40,000) words or more.

      3.3.2: Best Novella. A science fiction or fantasy story of between seventeen thousand five hundred (17,500) and forty thousand (40,000) words.

      Etc etc.

      I'm all for the World Fantasy Awards -- I won one in 1987 and I was a judge this year -- but they're not different from the Hugos in that they're for fantasy and the Hugos are "for SF". They're different in that they're a juried award and the Hugos are a popularly-voted one. You're mixing apples, oranges, prosciutto, and turpentine.

    4. Re:SF Writers Dominate Hugos by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know, but for years the Hugos were dominated by SF. And they are given at the World Science Fiction Convention. In the early years, I can really only find one unequivacable fantasy story that won a Hugo (Avram Davidson's "All the Seas with Oysters"). And even that's a bit of an odd duck, without any "traditional" fantasy elements. And anyway, fantasy does have it's own separate award.

      Congrats on the WFA, though. I sure didn't expect to find a WFA winner/judge posting on slashdot! :)

      I still prefer the Locus awards to the Hugo awards, though. Even though I've personally voted on more Hugo ballots. :)

  3. Wait... by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 4, Funny

    You can't hear the cool accents in writing. I don't get it.

    1. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A question. Which British accents are cool? BBC RP? Glaswegian? Welsh? Brum? Manc? Chav?

    2. Re:Wait... by protohiro1 · · Score: 1

      Swedes on the BBC.

      --
      Sig removed because it was obnoxious
    3. Re:Wait... by robertc5 · · Score: 1

      Chav. Definatly, chav.

      I set my phaser on yobbo.

    4. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Oh, it's got to be Brummie (Birmingham accent). Nothing says "cool" like an irritating nasal whine.... it couldn't be "scouse" (Liverpool accent) because that just screams "petty thief".

      * For any Americans reading: Liverpool is a city found in the North of England. It's famous for producing The Beatles and lots of car thieves and benefit scroungers. Brummies come from Birmingham -- a city in the Midlands that isn't famous for anything at all as far as I'm aware.

    5. Re:Wait... by wfmcwalter · · Score: 4, Funny
      Oh, it's got to be Brummie (Birmingham accent). Nothing says "cool" like an irritating nasal whine....

      The skoy waz the colir of a teleevishin tewned to ded chennel ...

      --
      ## W.Finlay McWalter ## http://www.mcwalter.org ##
    6. Re:Wait... by Col.+Bloodnok · · Score: 1

      Could oiy 'ave sum feggots an poyse ployse?

    7. Re:Wait... by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Informative
      Brummies come from Birmingham -- a city in the Midlands that isn't famous for anything at all as far as I'm aware.

      Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, The Moody Blues, UB40, Duran Duran, etc., etc.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    8. Re:Wait... by nightgeometry · · Score: 1

      That is possibly the funniest thing I have ever read. Thank you.

      --
      The best is the enemy of the good
    9. Re:Wait... by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the extraordinary accent...

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    10. Re:Wait... by joss · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, look... Birmingham is *not* famous for those things because only people from Birmingham are aware that they come from Birmingham.

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    11. Re:Wait... by Mugros · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Gouvernator Arnold

    12. Re:Wait... by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      because only people from Birmingham are aware that they come from Birmingham.

      + one American dude who actually reads liner notes...

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    13. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, The Moody Blues, UB40, Duran Duran, etc., etc."

      Birmingham -- a city in the Midlands that isn't famous for anything at all.

    14. Re:Wait... by TheBracket · · Score: 1
      Brummies come from Birmingham -- a city in the Midlands that isn't famous for anything at all as far as I'm aware.

      Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, The Moody Blues, UB40, Duran Duran, etc., etc.

      Not to mention that Birmingham is widely credited as inspiring some of Tolkien's anti-industrialisation themes (it was his home, and he often complained of watching the city spread into beautiful countryside), the Mini (car, not Mac!), Bird's custard, Bourneville/Cadbury's chocolate, Joseph Priestley (chemist, discovered oxygen), Matthew Boulton & James Watt (inventors of the steam engine), William Murdoch (inventor of gas lighting), the building of the first four-wheel petrol car (F W Lancaster, 1895), and a few others.

      Birmingham is England's second city, and a city I truly love - so I figured I'd throw in my 2p. :-)

      See the Wikipedia entry on Birmingham for details of most of this!

      --
      Lead developer, http://wisptools.net
    15. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that Birmingham is widely credited as inspiring some of Tolkien's anti-industrialisation themes

      Yep... I can just see the tourist posters. Birmingham: The inspiration for Mordor.

    16. Re:Wait... by mink · · Score: 1

      I'd read more of them if people like BMG would actually print them. Thats why I quit BMG. I hate not haing lyrics (in a readable font, no handwriting BS that is indiciferable) or production notes.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  4. Re:SF Writers Dominate Hugos (yep) by moultano · · Score: 1

    I certainly did. Provided a little chuckle.

  5. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by The+Grey+Clone · · Score: 1

    I appoligize if I've spelt the name incorrectly, but I purchased the book at some of the acclaim I heard about it, but does it's odd stylictic grammar happen to bother anyone else?

    I'll be reading along and all of a sudden the lack of a period after Mr. or, if I quote the first sentence of the book, "Some years ago there was in the city of York a society of magicians." I must be dense, but I had to read it twice to actually understand what Clarke was saying. The sentence structure, the grammar, it all just appears very foreign. Is this a normal British thing? I'm honestly at a loss.

    1. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by kt0157 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Alas you it is that has the problem.

      K.

    2. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by chill · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ha! I just RTFA and the first thing I told a co-worker was that I couldn't even finish JS&MN because of the stylistic grammer. I just plain gets in the way of the damn story.

      That, and 10 chapters deep I kept thinking "things should be picking up about now" but they never did. Almost the whole novel struck me as character-building setup.

      It is a lot like an all uphill roller-coaster. You keep waiting for the dropoff but it never comes.

        -Charles

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Ed_Moyse · · Score: 1

      Sounds fine to me (I'm a brit) ;-)

      Just jumble the words around : "In the city of York there was once a society of magicians."

      If it helps at all, it's pretty archaic-sounding british english, probably done for stylistic effect

    4. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by chill · · Score: 1

      The problem is the ENTIRE BOOK is in an archaic Queen's English. The author does a very good job with the language and descriptions and dialog to transport the reader to Napoleonic-era England. The problem is, once there my mind kept screaming "GET ME THE HELL OUT!"

        -Charles

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    5. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Some years ago, there was in the city of York, a society of magicians. Seems, at least to me, that this writer and his editor need to read the proper use of commas.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird, I actually found the stylized launguage to be part of the book's appeal (that and the wondeful footnotes).

      But then, I'm a Canadian, and we apparently have different sensibilities.

    7. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by psykocrime · · Score: 1

      I must be dense, but I had to read it twice to actually understand what Clarke was saying. The sentence structure, the grammar, it all just appears very foreign. Is this a normal British thing? I'm honestly at a loss.

      FWIW, I'm an American, and I didn't find it particularly bothersome. I haven't read the entire book yet, but up to where I am, the grammar hasn't really been something I've noticed.

      Then again, I really enjoy British literature, TV, music, etc., so maybe I'm just conditioned to accept it?

      <shrug>

      --
      // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
    8. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by rdwald · · Score: 1

      I had the same problem with that book, though based on my previous experiences with British authors I suspect it's either that Clarke's style is weird or that Clarke was specificially going for a weird style. Along the same lines, the book took me at least five times as long to read as other equivalent-length fiction novels; it's probably the style which slowed me down.

    9. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yours is awful. Those commas do NOT belong there.
      Yuk. There are NO natural pauses in that sentence.

    10. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by ebichu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, it doesn't bother me, but then I'm British. The lack of a 'full stop' after 'Mr' is normal style in British punctuation; it is a little inconsistent, but full stops are becoming less common in abbreviations in British English. Then again, some American conventions are strange as well; like inserting a comma before 'and' in a list, such as 'apples, bananas, and grapes are fruit' compared to the British style 'apples bananas and grapes are fruit'. The comma is intended, historically, to represent the omission of the word 'and'; the American tradition would imply 'apples and bananas and and grapes are fruit' as the original etymology. Such is the price of diversity.

      American and British punctuation and spelling differ in many places; I always find US spellings such as 'ax' versus 'axe' or 'color' versus 'colour' jarring. Sometimes a work is re-edited for publication on on the opposite side of the Atlantic to which it was written, but just as often -- as in this case -- it appears that the book has just been imported wholesale without being re-typeset. Typesetting is an expensive activity, and a book will need to be very popular to justify doing it all over again rather than just reprinting and slapping on a new cover.

      For an interesting history of the different versions of a book check out some of the prefaces to later editions of the Lord of the Rings (an example that should resonate well with /. readers). It was very popular and underwent several versions with different spellings and house punctuation styles; both American and British versions were produced and in both cases they were published on the opposite side of the Atlantic then they were originally intended.

      As for the second point, British writing these days has been tending towards old-fashioned and formal styles, I think as a backlash against the influence of informal American idioms. We are writing ourselves into Merchant-Ivory stereotypes that we have spent the last thirty years trying to escape. Go figure.

      I used to find works written for the American market difficult to read, but I got used to it. We may be able to understand each others language, but we should not expect them to be the same. Languages have diverged to the point of unintelligibility in less time then we have been seperate nations. We should get used to each others lingustic foibles, and claim a new fluent reading language on our CVs (or resumes, as they say in the Americas -- a strange, alien land whose tongue I am studying in my spare time).

      --
      -- "let's get wild. There's plenty of time to do nothing when we're dead." - Dorothy Parker
    11. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Wereon · · Score: 1

      The comma before "and" is not an Americanism, hence its name of the "Oxford Comma". Unfortunately, the lack of full stops has rapidly become a Briticism, and one that I personally detest.

    12. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Malc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "the British style 'apples bananas and grapes are fruit'."

      Since when did commas in lists go out of vogue? The English I learnt (in England, and I'm only 30) definitely had commas. The way I learnt is different to both of the examples you gave: "apples, bananas and grapes are fruit." There are situations where a comma precedes an "and", but not in lists.

      Talking of jarring and the word "and", I find this applies to American numbers. Take 104 for instance: en-US = "one hundred four"; en-GB = "one hundred and four". The American one there isn't consistent, but does seem to be the most common in American circles.

    13. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by fireduck · · Score: 1

      Very much intentionally written to invoke the feeling of 19th century writers (e.g., jane austen). The book is enjoyable, but took a long time to really grab my attention. For about a month it was my "read on the toilet" book. Then, about 2/3rds of the way through, I was finally interested enough to read it in much longer stretches.

    14. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by ebcdic · · Score: 1

      One of the standard abbreviation conventions is that you don't put a full stop after an abbreviation if it ends with the last letter of the full word, so you have "Mr" but "Prof.". Maybe it's more common here than in the U.S.

      The general style of the prose is often deliberately old-fashioned and weighty, but nothing more than that. I'm sure that it's just a matter of getting used to it.

    15. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She has poor "grammer"?

    16. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Probably the most common for 104 in the US would be one oh four.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    17. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are natural pauses, but not in the places the grandparent says. If I were writing that sentance, I would say:

      Some years ago there was, in the city of York, a society of magicians."

      As other replies have said, it's a little old-fashioned, but it doesn't sound strange to me as a Brit.

    18. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      i think the issue is not that it is weird grammar, but that it is PROPER grammar! we've been deprived of it so long and don't use it ourselves we don't recognize it when we see it.

    19. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      You DO realize that "natural pauses" have nothing whatsoever to do with correct comma placement, right?

      Just wondering.

    20. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by devnullify · · Score: 1

      Wow, and I thought that the English language was confusing enough already...

    21. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by belroth · · Score: 1
      The difference between UK and US English that jars most with me is the use of "of a" when descibing something. An example being when saying that a puzzle wasn't difficult:
      UK: "That wasn't too hard a problem"
      US: "That wasn't too hard of a a problem"

      I've never noticed any instance of the latter usage by anyone from the UK, whereas the former is infrequently used by US speakers. I don't know why this has arisen, nor which is the more ancient form but I do find the US usage (as I have labelled it) grating.

      NB I have heard UK speakers say 'of a' in films when speaking lines written by US scriptwriters but I don't count that.

      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
    22. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by tgibbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some years ago, there was in the city of York, a society of magicians. Seems, at least to me, that this writer and his editor need to read the proper use of commas.

      Somebody does. Rule of thumb: The number of commas between the subject of a sentence and its verb must be either zero or an even number.

      If you absolutely insist on adding commas to the sentence, which is probably better without them, it would be:

      "Some years ago, there was, in the city of York, a society of magicians. "

    23. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If extreme deviant language like "Mr" without a full-stop wierd you out, stick to something more conventional. I suggest you try "Riddley Walker".

    24. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then again, some American conventions are strange as well; like inserting a comma before 'and' in a list, such as 'apples, bananas, and grapes are fruit' compared to the British style 'apples bananas and grapes are fruit'.

      As an American, I learned that both are acceptable. However, I prefer the comma, as it adds the potential for an additional shading of meaning with reduced ambiguity, e.g.

      "Food combinations that go well together are rice and beans, steak and potatoes, and liver and onions." (note the potential confusion from omission of the last comma)

    25. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Requiem+Aristos · · Score: 1

      The way you learnt to write write lists is actually what I think of as the American style; It can create ambiguity as to whether the last two items comprise a single list member, or are each distinct list members. (Consider the sentence "she studies history, primate habitats and mating".) Incidentally, this last comma is called the Oxford comma.

      Could you explain the inconsistency in the American version of 104? What I had been taught was that the "and" was reserved for the decimal (as in "one hundred four and nine-tenths"); unless you are treating the number as a list it is perfectly consistent.

    26. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Varitek · · Score: 1

      A canonical example is

      "I'd like to thank my parents, Mother Theresa and God". The comma really would add clarity there . . .

      (Incidentally, although it's more often used in the US, one of its names is the Oxford Comma. The other is the Harvard Comma)

    27. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by syntaxglitch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some years ago, there was in the city of York, a society of magicians. Seems, at least to me, that this writer and his editor need to read the proper use of commas.

      The second comma you added to the phrase from the book is an abomination of the highest order. Please do not correct archaic, albeit understandable, grammar with such monstrous modern miscarriages of language.

    28. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by The+Grey+Clone · · Score: 1

      I guess Mr without a fullstop wasn't really what I'd consider weirding me out, but it was something I'd never seen before. The weird use of commas was probably the most jarring part of the book. It's a shame, though, as it seemed rather good.

    29. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by The+Grey+Clone · · Score: 1

      I honestly only got... two chapters into the book, I think. Harry Potter grabbed my attention away and I haven't tried to go back to my copy of JS&MN. It did seem like it should be rather good, I just couldn't get into it.

    30. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'll be reading along and all of a sudden the lack of a period after Mr. or, if I quote the first sentence of the book, "Some years ago there was in the city of York a society of magicians." I must be dense, but I had to read it twice to actually understand what Clarke was saying.

      That didn't bother me nearly as much as her use of the word, "chuse".

      The sentence structure, the grammar, it all just appears very foreign. Is this a normal British thing? I'm honestly at a loss.

      Her writing is not entirely indicative of her locale. She's trying to emulate the style of early 19th century writing. If you read some classics from that era, they seem remarkably similar in style to hers, regardless of their country of origin. Even later works, such as as those by Poe, are similar. The style is also similar to that of later British authors. For instance, early 20th century writing, like Arthur Conan Doyle's, has similar sentence structure. However, Clarke's writing is not similar to later British writers, such as Peter F. Hamilton.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    31. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
      hence its name of the "Oxford Comma"

      A misnomer, I believe, since I have only heard that expression from Americans.

    32. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      The use of a "serial" comma (AKA Oxford comma, Harvard comma) is common in American English, but can be found in British English and International English as well (the latter being derived mostly from British English I think). I believe it is more the context of the writing, rather than the nationality of the writer, that influences the usage of commas, quotes, etc. I suspect more formal writing, e.g. scientific articles, is a context where the serial comma is used to avoid any possible ambiguity.
            Pity the Anglophone who strives in vain for "official" English when the French, Japanese, and a host of other peoples are able to speak/write with a measure of lingual orthodoxy by virtue of government run Academies that codify and manage their respective languages. As for myself, I use BBC News as my standard reference for correct English usage. If anyone is keen on writing in alignment with some form of "proper" English, I suggest using BBC News as a standard reference. After all, they report for the entire world, and not just the UK. It is logical and is as close as I've come to any meaningful standard for the English language. Just my twopence...

    33. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by flossie · · Score: 1

      US: I would like one hundred six packs please: 106 packs?
      Brit: I would like one hundred six packs please: 100 six-packs.
      Brit: I would like one hundred and six packs, please: 106 packs.

    34. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by macshit · · Score: 1

      Nothing wrong with the comma usage in that sentence.

      Commas reflect pauses in the sentence. If you're a native speaker, just speak the sentence; if it doesn't sound weird, then it's correct. This particular sentence sounds exactly right, like the beginning of a fairy tale.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    35. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
      The book is clearly not intended to to appeal primarily to someone who is looking for a thriller. I have heard it mentioned that movie script-writers count on an American audience having an attention span in the order of fifteen seconds, but I won't dwell on how that is reflected in the quality of their work.

      However, a novelist in command of his or her language should be able to count on a literate reader having an attention span greater than that of a flea.

    36. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      Commas reflect pauses in the sentence.

      For the second time in this thread, this is incorrect. In general, the correct use for commas in modern English is in separating list elements (discussed elsewhere in this thread) and for delimiting non-essential phrases, such as parenthetical asides or prepositional constructions. Note that this implies that non-list commas always appear in pairs, unless the phrase begins or ends the sentence, in which case the closure is assumed.

      Pauses in speech have nothing to do with it beyond that fact that they SOMETIMES correlate with the above correct placement.

    37. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by DavidBrown · · Score: 2, Funny

      Me (US): I would like one hundred six-packs please: 100 six-packs.

      But to be honest, I'd settle for one or two.

      --
      144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
    38. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by TaoJones · · Score: 1
      US: I would like one hundred six packs please: 106 packs?

      You are asserting an ambiguity that would never exist in the US, as a "six pack" is a known and accepted unit of measurement. The only way the above could be confusing is the fact that for that much beer you'ld be better off getting a keg.

      --
      "Fear is the rootkit of democracy.." Blarkon
    39. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      "I'd like to thank my parents, Mother Theresa and God". The comma really would add clarity there

      I had to read that four times before I saw the alternative (and incorrect) interpretation.

      I think it is mainly just what you're used to. I had it drummed into me at school that we should never use a comma at the end of a list, only an 'and'. I'm british btw.

      Stylistically, I also pause slightly for a breath at commas and the final 'and', which paces my reading of the sentence. Incidentally, I use the same technique for where to place commas, which hopefully helps me break up sentences into managable chunks.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    40. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The use of comma before the final 'and' is the correct way. The style of wrting in newspapers has pushed out its use though.

    41. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1

      The problem is the ENTIRE BOOK is in an archaic Queen's English. The author does a very good job with the language and descriptions and dialog to transport the reader to Napoleonic-era England. The problem is, once there my mind kept screaming "GET ME THE HELL OUT!"

      I don't get why authors feel the need to do this. Part of their job - and SF authors should understand this intricately - is to translate language from their chosen milieu into OUR language. Importing bits of it wholesale for the prose itself makes for a pain-in-the-butt reading experience.

      I never got through "Moon Is Harsh Mistress" for the same reason. Icky, difficult prose kept ejecting me right out of the story.

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    42. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by payndz · · Score: 1
      Then again, some American conventions are strange as well; like inserting a comma before 'and' in a list, such as 'apples, bananas, and grapes are fruit' compared to the British style 'apples bananas and grapes are fruit'.

      Actually, as a Brit I was taught that in lists, commas aren't used before the final 'and'. So the correct UK version should be 'apples, bananas and grapes are fruit'.

      --
      You must think in Russian.
    43. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      Increasingly, the "Oxford Comma" is being taught as well, especially in places where it would add clarity. What is amusing is that we were always taught that it was a big bad to put a comma before 'and.' The more perceptive among us realised this was bollocks, and then it was changed by the time we got out.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    44. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by flossie · · Score: 1
      I would like one hundred four packs please; I would like one hundred five packs please; I would like one hundred six packs please; I would like one hundred seven packs please.

      The use of six-pack as a unit breaks the sequence above. Furthermore, not everywhere sells alcohol; if you did not know that a place you were in sold beer, there would be potential for ambiguity. Admittedly, I cannot think of any serious problems that this would cause, but the lack of "and" in numbers has always jarred when I have been in the US.

    45. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by ickoonite · · Score: 1

      Surely a comma in the list "apples, bananas, and grapes are fruit" is just wrong? And surely British English would have it as "apples, [I suppose the comma is dispensible] bananas and grapes are fruit", as would those strange people on the other side of the Pond?

      There are certainly times when a comma before "and" is correct - or at least to not use it would create a rather undesirable flow.

      I'd certainly agree with the point about spellings jarring though, especially with less seen words like "axe". It just looks odd, but that's all down to what you're used to. To troll slightly, and perhaps to provoke a little war (with any luck :D), maybe there will come a day when Americans see Webster for the moron and linguistic butcher that he actually was (although, in retrospect, given that some of his more "progressive" alterations were rejected, perhaps they feel that they have done this already).

      As to resumés and CVs, the differing styles are rather interesting too. I have a Japanese flatmate who has spent altogether too much time learning things the...er..."wrong"...way and is convinced that her CV should include some kind of egotistical personal statement that feels like it should be locked in a slogans cupboard in a some big City corporate's marketing department. Attempts to explain that the British are more refined/restrained (*ducks* :P) have unfortunately so far failed.

      iqu :P

    46. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Tarquin+Sidebottom · · Score: 1

      Prof. is of course still very much an abbreviation of professor. However, Mr seems to have also become a word in its own right, while the full Mister is a relatively rare sight. Mrs. is an even better example. nobody but nobody goes around calling women Mistress Smith.

    47. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Wereon · · Score: 1

      Err, no, it's because it is the house style of Oxford University Press.

    48. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by macshit · · Score: 1

      Pauses in speech have nothing to do with it beyond that fact that they SOMETIMES correlate with the above correct placement.

      What can I say? You're quite wrong.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    49. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      owww, go and read Feersum Endjinn and then come back and complain it is hard to read.

      Every time IMB changes the writing style it takes a good 10 minutes to get used to it so that you can stop reading it by actually moving your lips to understand what he wrote down. Very good book, as all of his stuff are.

    50. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Triskele · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's worth noting that the American and English use of commas is quite different. Americans tend to put commas in to separate all subclauses whereas Brits only put in commas to disambiguate or to reflect a natural pause in speaking (and to the poster who complained against this - this is standard English usage even if not American). Anyone who is interested in the differences between American and English should read Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue - well balanced on both sides of the debate and with a good historical background as to how the language has evolved to get here.

      --

      --
      USA: home of the world's largest terrorist training camp.

    51. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
      The comma is intended, historically, to represent the omission of the word 'and'
      "The comma is intended and historically and to represent the omission of the word 'and'"?

      I learned, as a child, that a comma was used, among other things, to represent a short pause.
      (One of those other things was to indicate an "aside phrase" (I forget the "official" term), as in "The comma is intended, historically, to represent [...]", "I learned, as a child, that [...]", (short pause) and "a comma was used, among other things, to represent [...]".)
      So "Apples, bananas, and grapes are fruit." is "more correct", because the length of the pause between "bananas" and "and" is roughly equivalent to the length of the pause between "Apples" and "bananas".
      Now, it's possible that, in GB, you say "Apples, bananasandgrapes are fruit.", but, based on my extensive research into the English language as spoken in Great Britain (said research carried out mainly by watching "Are You Being Served?", "Are You Being Served Again?" (which, inexplicably, was entitled something different in your native land), "As Time Goes By", "BBC World News", speeches by and interviews with HRH Betty Windsor and/or her kids Chuck (esp. his show on Architecture) and Andy (esp. his show on British history), "Butterflies", "Dr. Who", Fergie's weight-loss commercials, "The Good Life", the "Harry Potter" movies, "Inspector Morse", "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"[1], "I, Caudius"[2], James Bond movies, "Keeping Up Appearances", the "Lord of the Ring" movies, Michael Wood-hosted documentaries, "Monty Python's Flying Circus", "My Fair Lady"[6], "Poirot"[3], "Prime Suspect", "Question Time"[4], "Red Dwarf", "Sherlock Holmes"[3], "The Stephen Hawing Lecture Tour"[5], "To the Manor Born", "The Vicar of Dibly", "Waiting For God", (short pause) and "The Young Ones"[5]), I suspect that you probably don't.

      [1] BBC TV version.
      [2] "Masterpiece Theatre" version.
      [3] "Mystery!" version.
      [4] Margaret Thatcher era; John Majors was boring, and Tony Blair is just too painful to watch (as he tries to be, simultaneously, liberal and conservative ("Labor" and "Tory")).
      [5] Yeah, I put that one in as a joke.
      [6] Rex Harrison movie version.
      (Coincidentally, I played Henry Higgen's Butler (or is it "Butlre"?) in my High School's presentation of the musical play version of "My Fair Lady".)
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    52. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by radtea · · Score: 1

      The leisurely pace of the book is one of its many delights, as is her precise grammar. It's like drifting down a peaceful river on a sunny afternoon. Not what you'd want if you're in the mood to shoot the rapids, but a very pleasant experience if you're in the right mood.

      The fabulous thing about the nominations is the sheer diversity of talent--you'd be hard-pressed to get further from JS&MN than "The Algebrist" (or anything else by Iain M. Banks.) I'm not a big Banks fans--his language is beautiful but his stories are contrived and stupid. Still, some people like that, and it's good to see nominee list that covers such a huge span.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    53. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      What can I say? You're quite wrong.

      I'm sure you can say a great deal of incorrect things if you like. On the other hand, if you can find a reputable source that disagrees with me, I'd like to see it. In the meantime, please do not encourage the spread of incorrect grammar.

    54. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
      Err, no, it's because it is the house style of Oxford University Press.

      I'm aware of that, but OUP don't call it the Oxford comma. What I said stands.

    55. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by neil_rickards · · Score: 1

      Then again, some American conventions are strange as well; like inserting a comma before 'and' in a list

      I think you're referring to The Oxford Comma

      :)

    56. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a completely uninteresting side note, the same rule applies in French. I wonder where it came from.

    57. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think the other guy was right, and I needed a third comma. The point is not breathing, but understandibility. Which should really be the point of grammar to begin with- not a hard and fast set of rules, but is what you wrote understandible.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    58. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by mink · · Score: 1

      I't is clear to this American, but I read a bit of European writing so I might just be used to differeing styles.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
    59. Re:Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by mink · · Score: 1

      I must be one screwed up EN_US user as saying one hundred four seems wrong. When I write out checks or tell someone a number like that, I use "and" in it. It does not sound right to me without that.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  6. Re:Look, Mom! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not at all surprising, considering that all Americans are able to write nowadays is "rotf lmao lol!!!11!! gwbstehgraetestest"

    P.S.: the captcha was "mammas". I like "mammas".

  7. what about non-english language stuff? by kingduct · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey, I live in Ecuador, and I've always looked for sci-fi written originally in Spanish, but darned if I can find much. What authors write in other languages, and do they ever get Hugo awards?

    1. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Try looking online in Spain at a major bookstore - that would be my first try.

      There have been winners who wrote first in another language which was then translated to English - I can think of a few who first wrote the story in French and the English translation won a Hugo.

      But, in general, it's stories written primarily in English.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some of the Polish alternate history stuff is quite well done- there was a whole genre based on the idea that their constitutional monarchy was able to beat the Ottoman Empire (instead of losing, which is the real history) thus creating a strong Poland for the 19th century, and NOT sucumbing to repeated attacks by the Germans and Russians in the 20th. What the Polish would have done as a superpower- including beating EVERYBODY ELSE into space.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by Unordained · · Score: 1

      French science fiction -- Verne, Barjavel ... wait, planet of the apes was french (Boulle)? Woah. Sadly, wikipedia has no equivalent "Spanish science fiction" page, nor, that I can find, a page listing sci-fi by language. Sorry.

      As they note, french sci-fi tends to be 'different'. I can't quite put my finger on it, despite having watched plenty of made-in-france sci-fi animated stuff as a kid ("Il etait une fois ... l'espace", "Mysterieuses Cites d'Or", "Ulysse 31") and read french sci-fi (like Barjavel's). It seems obsessed with the words "infinite", "time", and with ancient civilizations ... and a sort of steam-punk anachronism of those civilizations. I know it's not uniquely french, but it just seems much more present in french sci-fi than in, say, american. And a lot less with war (at least not told in the present tense) and more with the consequences of war, ancient history, etc. I guess we can attribute this to WW2, they were the ones being invaded, and dealing with that legacy, while we were the ones saving their butts, and dealing with -that- legacy (more with the concepts of prelude to war, justifying war, engaging in war, deciding which side to be on, etc.) And although it's again not literature, Jeunet's "Delicatessen" amused the hell out of me. (Freaked everyone else out -- again a story of ordinary life after a war.)

      As to the Hugo question, I haven't a clue (and don't feel like checking.)

    4. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by robertc5 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Victor Hugo.

    5. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by fireduck · · Score: 3, Informative

      What authors write in other languages, and do they ever get Hugo awards?

      From the official FAQ:

      Are non-American works eligible?
      Yes. Any work is eligible, regardless of its place or language of publication. Works first published in languages other than English are also eligible in their first year of publication in English translation.

    6. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, who cares if it's not in English?
      Spanish speakers are only good at making me tacos.

    7. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by DSP_Geek · · Score: 1

      You probably already read him, but Jorge Luis Borges comes to mind. The Library Of Babel fits all the definitions of SF I know, plus it's a mind-expanding read.

      Frankie-Bob says two thumbs up!

    8. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by pnh · · Score: 1

      "There have been winners who wrote first in another language which was then translated to English - I can think of a few who first wrote the story in French and the English translation won a Hugo."

      Actually, not.

      It would be nice if it were otherwise, but your memory is performing an act of wishful thinking. No work of fiction not originally published in English has ever won a Hugo.

    9. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Was that based on a short story/Novella from Astounding (not Analog) called Polonaise?

      It sounds like it could have been, and that the last part was written first. I still remember the justifier:
      "We had to be first with an atomic arms platform in orbit, because the Poles are the only gentle people."

      I've never been able to decide whether that was hubris or lack of insight.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    10. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I would then guess that's why Isaac Asimov (Prof. @ Boston U., died in '92) won the Hugo so many times..... Seems to be that somehow, American (even Russian born) writers are eligible, as history reveals.

    11. Re:what about non-english language stuff? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Was that based on a short story/Novella from Astounding (not Analog) called Polonaise?

      Polonaise (I forgot who wrote it) in an anothology I had lying around from the author that I lent to a young Polish immigrant I know, was apparently based on this large body of Polish alternative history stuff that has never been translated. Talking to my young friend's father, he was VERY familiar with the history and the genre- and BTW, the other bit in Polonaise about how rare use of the Society of Assassins was quite correct- apparently democratically elected Kings with terms of 5 years worked extremely well. Too bad the Ottoman Empire put an end to it.

      OTOH- I have to wonder if George Lucas is familiar with this bit of Polish History and Alternative History- the constitutional monarchy of Naboo in Episodes 1-3 seems to have some relation to this.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  8. Hugo Award by Willy+on+Wheels · · Score: 0
    --
    Do you play with your Willy?
  9. Two possibilities by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    One: Backlash against US dominance in SF&F beforehand.

    Two: Backlash against Pacific NW (esp. Seattle and Vancouver) dominance in SF&F beforehand. ... or ...

    maybe they just wrote cooler stuff and filmed all the cool SF&F stuff up in Vancouver so we got shut out of the running?

    back in the days of being a SMOF, i took Bill Gibson's Hugo from Australia to Vancouver thru customs ... good thing one of the security gaurds was a fan, but nowadays I'd never even be able to do that [looks like a rocket/mortar]

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Two possibilities by FuckTheModerators · · Score: 1

      WTF is an SMOF?

    2. Re:Two possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Single Male Obese Fuck?

    3. Re:Two possibilities by ObjetDart · · Score: 1

      Damn, and me with no mod points!

      --
      I read Usenet for the articles.
    4. Re:Two possibilities by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      WTF is an SMOF?

      It's like a SMOG, but the fen version, not the gamer version.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    5. Re:Two possibilities by Andy_R · · Score: 1

      SMOF = Secret Master of Fandom

      ie the sort of person who organises SF conventions.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    6. Re:Two possibilities by pnh · · Score: 1

      "SMOF" is ironic. If you take the idea of being one too seriously, you're not one.

      As a word, its most useful function is as a verb. I.e., "to smof" -- to geek about the intricacies of Hugos, convention running, and other "inside baseball" of the SF and fantasy world.

  10. why the hard-on for China Mieville? by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1

    I read Perdido Street Station and King Rat,I thought they were jus OK.. I hope Stross gets it. I can't beleive Richard Morgan didn't get a nod for Broken Angels.

    --

    My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    1. Re:why the hard-on for China Mieville? by Scooby71 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The nomination is for "Iron Council".


      King Rat was an early work, haven't read Perido Street Station, loved "The Scar", thought "Iron Council" was good but flawed.


      Agree about Richard Morgan, but I'd have thought the nomination would be for "Woken Furies".

    2. Re:why the hard-on for China Mieville? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Richard Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs novels are juvenile male ass-kicker fantasies -- they aren't even that well written, although they are quite gruesomely inventive, which is a plus for SF.

    3. Re:why the hard-on for China Mieville? by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1

      Could be because Woken Furies hasn't been released in the US yet. I'm not sure how the nom process works.

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    4. Re:why the hard-on for China Mieville? by Flave · · Score: 1

      Morgan should have gotten a nom for Woken Furies. Broken Angels is utter dreck.

  11. The British Are Coming! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Bloody, hell. Star Trek goes off the air and Dr. Who comes back to the air. There are too many British actors on Battlestar Galactica. Now the red coats are taking over literature. I guess this is the end of Pax Americana. Where do I surrender?

    1. Re:The British Are Coming! by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1

      They were good books and honestly, I can't think of a single american who should have made the list...

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    2. Re:The British Are Coming! by jangobongo · · Score: 1
      American culture does seem to be stagnating, IMO. Realism in TV (Reality TV) and sci-fi; movies based on sequels, TV shows, comic books, and remakes of old movies; and the recycling of fashion and music trends (disco and Afros?) show a lack of creativity, as far as I'm concerned.

      I slowed down on reading sci-fi books when the realism became too big a factor in the stories. For example, I like David Brin, but just didn't like "Earth" because it focused too much on science and not enough on the characters. Brin's first three "Uplift" stories are much more to my liking, though. A good story should be just that, a good story - entertaining to read.

      Anyway, I think sci-fi needs to get back to the optimism that was so prevalent in the last half of the 20th century. According to the article:
      By contrast British genre writers are not looking back, they are eyeing the future with lip-smacking anticipation.

      "We're a bit more upbeat and there's an openness about there being a future for us," says Mr Stross.
      Maybe this will trigger a new wave of creativity in American sci-fi writers.
      --

      Sig cancelled due to lack of interest
    3. Re:The British Are Coming! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The British embassy dear boy. Just go up to the door, lay down your firearm (we know all you yanks have them), apologise for all the bad teeth jokes and that messy business a couple of hundred years ago... and we'll think about letting you come home.

    4. Re:The British Are Coming! by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Canada already is massing troops on the border so they can return our breakaway republic back to the motherland and win brownie points. I suggest Mexico.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    5. Re:The British Are Coming! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. I sense some French blood in you.

    6. Re:The British Are Coming! by macshit · · Score: 1

      I slowed down on reading sci-fi books when the realism became too big a factor in the stories.

      Yeah, spot on!

      I think of it as "Suburban SF" -- in the early 90s or so, more and more stories (especially in magazines) seemed to be about near-future very slight variants on our own society, with characters that are basically the same boring white-bread SUV-driving bozos we see around us in real life.

      Frankly when I read SF, I want to read about something different than what I can see out the window. I don't necessarily want optimism (evil alien despots in the 29th century, with all the good guys dying in the end, are fine), but it should show a bit of imagination and dash.

      A simple rule: If a story could conceivably be adapted for an After-School Special ("it's a nuanced story of an average suburban high-school student who discovers he has mild telepathy, and how he deals with the effects on his peer group"), REJECT.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    7. Re:The British Are Coming! by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      I just finished Ken MacLeod's Newton's Wake. I say fuck the British, Scots are the new masters of SF!

      Bank's The Algebraist is just like what you describe, something completely different from real life. Newton's Wake was quite good as well, with the same aspect: it was different than most of the American stuff I read these days.

      To be fair, the only new writed I stumbled upon and liked this year was Jeff Noon and he is a british as well.

      About all the good guys dying in the end, I was somewhat taken aback with Iain M. Bank's latest where almost everyone actually survives, which is a bummer.

    8. Re:The British Are Coming! by QuasEye · · Score: 1

      (probably too late to get any moderation, but what the hell...)

      I have a theory about that - I think that it's a reaction to all the "futuristic" sci-fi from generations past that never panned out.

      For example, 2001 was four years ago, and we've barely started talking about going to Mars, much less Jupiter, with or without talking AI computers. As someone once said, "Where's my flying car?"

      Based on past experiences, the popular opinion seems to be that most likely, the future (assuming we're talking about non-apocalyptic scenarios only) will look a lot like today, just with better gadgets.

  12. Rowling by ranson · · Score: 1

    Very surprising to me is that amongst all these British nominees, there was not even a nod for Rowling's fifth book in the Harry Potter series (HP & The Order of the Phoenix), given that book #4 in the series was the Hugo Best Novel Winner when it was released in 2001.

    1. Re:Rowling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why it won 2001 is a mystery, since it isn't science fiction. Perhaps they just got caught up in the euphoria for what, on reflection is pretty tedious rehash of The Worst Witch and Tom Brown's School Days.

    2. Re:Rowling by fireduck · · Score: 1

      Order of the Phoenix came out in 2003, so it would have been eligible last year. Altough, if one looks at the full listing of Hugo nominees, the Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban movie was nominated in the long form dramatic presentation.

      Also exciting to see that Lost (the pilot) and Battlestar Galactica (33, the first episode) garnered nominations for short form presentation.

  13. First time in history, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, it *must* mean that U.S. writers are suddenly uncreative morons, rather than mere chance.

  14. That makes sense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Mr Stross says that what an author writes is a reflection of his society, and currently US genre writers are mirroring the 'deep trauma' that 9/11 wrought on America.
    Why can't he just come out and say "Americans are wrting a heap of self-indulgent whiny bullcrap"?
    1. Re:That makes sense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't he just come out and say "Americans are wrting a heap of self-indulgent whiny bullcrap"?

      Don't blame him - I guess we're all a little nervous in this post 911 world.

    2. Re:That makes sense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It fashionable these days to blame all of America's problems on 9/11.

  15. Creative Slump by ndansmith · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Everytime the U.S. (or more broadly: any nation) goes to war, the arts suffer. People are too distracted by the war to put a strong effort towards artistic endeavors. Then, when the war ends, there is often a mini revival of the arts. The U.S. certainly is distracted by 9/11, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and look at the result: reality TV shows.

    1. Re:Creative Slump by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      and look at the result: reality TV shows.

      You forgot to put the "Oh, wait..." in that phrase. Anyway it's still funny! Mod up!

    2. Re:Creative Slump by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      So why aren't the Brits in the same boat? They're in Iraq as well. If the US is still at war in Iraq (as the US media keeps telling us every day) then so is Great Britain because there are there along with us. So why all the Hugo awards to the Brits if they should be in the middle of an artistic slump?

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    3. Re:Creative Slump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why aren't the Brits in the same boat?

      Stop bringing up stuff that disproves his point. He hates that.

    4. Re:Creative Slump by ndansmith · · Score: 1

      Well maybe it goes like this: The citizens of the UK were much more resistant to the war in Iraq than the people of the US. The war, without much popular support, does not seem to hinder the arts. The same thing happened in Vietnam. As opposition to the war grew among the people, we had an increase in artistic output, especially in music. So maybe that has something to do with it.

    5. Re:Creative Slump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhhh, most of the reality shows we see are/were children of British versions... and in many cases we get spared the majority of the worst ones

    6. Re:Creative Slump by pavon · · Score: 1

      You are blaming reality TV shows on 9/11? Is there nothing that people won't blame on 9/11.

      Besides, I really don't think your argument holds up. All sorts of classics were written in the mist and aftermath of war - just look at Walt Whitman, or T.S. Eliot. Art is inspired by life, and when things are difficult, is when it is most inspiring. Conflict doesn't distract from art it puts the difficult questions into sharp relief. It is when we are fat and happy that we are most distracted from the deep issues that make great literature.

    7. Re:Creative Slump by Infonaut · · Score: 1
      It is when we are fat and happy that we are most distracted from the deep issues that make great literature.

      It could also be argued that we are fat and happy even though we're at war. The volunteer military does all the fighting for us, and but for questions of policy, the only people who really feel the impact of the war itself are soldiers and their families. I'd argue that we're disturbed by what is happening, but it's not affecting our day to day lives to any great degree, unlike every other war in which America has been involved.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    8. Re:Creative Slump by IceAgeComing · · Score: 1

      So why aren't the Brits in the same boat?

      Perhaps it's that America is more physically removed from the rest of the world. America hasn't been bombed or invaded at nearly the same frequency as Great Britain.

    9. Re:Creative Slump by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Do you mean like if an author is about to write a book, he might think "Oh hang on, there are troops still in Iraq, I won't bother writing."????

      Would there have been no reality TV without 11/9? I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    10. Re:Creative Slump by AoT · · Score: 1

      Great Britain invaded?

      What world are you living in?

    11. Re:Creative Slump by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      America hasn't been bombed or invaded at nearly the same frequency as Great Britain.

      I'm quite willing to accept a lower artistic output as the price of not getting bombed and invaded. I can always import my art from Great Britain after all...

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    12. Re:Creative Slump by torpor · · Score: 1


      I'd argue that we're disturbed by what is happening, but it's not affecting our day to day lives to any great degree, unlike every other war in which America has been involved.



      ummm .. 9/11? that was a war moment, wasn't it?

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    13. Re:Creative Slump by Infonaut · · Score: 1
      ummm .. 9/11? that was a war moment, wasn't it?

      Absolutely. But following that war moment, we were all told to get back to our shopping. Americans haven't been asked to sacrifice in any meaningful way, nor have we had to. Aside from a small segment of the population that is connected to the military in some fashion, there is no direct risk or danger, no rationing, no blackouts, nothing that impacts the flow of our daily lives.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    14. Re:Creative Slump by nunchux · · Score: 1

      Makes sense, except that Reality TV was already "taking over" in 1999-2000... Big Brother and Survivor, for example, aren't post 9-11 shows. Reality shows aren't a reaction to a terrorist event, they're the result of 100+ channels increasingly making the big three networks obsolete.

      (BTW, what everyone bitching about reality TV seems to forget that almost every popular American reality show is based on a prior British reality show. But their TV is better, right?)

      Look-- mass market entertainment has always sucked, we just remember the few classics and forget the crap. You think every movie made in the 30's was a masterpiece? There's great TV out there right now if you know where to look (starting with HBO), great movies being made (documentaries, for example, have never been better), great books and songs being written.

    15. Re:Creative Slump by torpor · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Thats a bad situation to be in, since your entire nation is at war.. and when the terrorists decide to fight back (they've stated they're going to ..) then the nation is going to be very ill-prepared for it, eh?

      Good thing I don't live there any more.

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    16. Re:Creative Slump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      England hasn't been invaded since 1297 (by William Wallace. Scots forces also invaded during the English Civil War, but they were assisting the English Parliamentarian forces, so it doesn't really count as an "invasion"). The US on the other hand was last invaded in 1814, when British forces moving down from Canada took Washington and burned the White House.

    17. Re:Creative Slump by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      Okay the last time it happened was almost 1000 years ago but yes Great Britain has been regularly invaded by the Normans, the Vikings, the Romans and that's not including the migrations such as the Angles and Saxons, and the Celts.

    18. Re:Creative Slump by mean+pun · · Score: 1
      BTW, what everyone bitching about reality TV seems to forget that almost every popular American reality show is based on a prior British reality show. But their TV is better, right?

      Big Brother is in fact originally Dutch. As a Dutchman, that makes me so proud (cough).

    19. Re:Creative Slump by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      'cause we don't want this bloody war!

      While American writers go out and glorify their war and try to dehumanize the so called enemy, Brits are actually critising the whole expedition. Now we had the bombs in London, most of the people just want to disengage and leave Iraq to Americans, since it was a mess created by Americans in the first place (by supplying weapons and information to Saddam to oppose Iranians in eighties and so on).

    20. Re:Creative Slump by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      I can't imagine a single SF american writer/movie maker actually writing against the war and his book/movie winning Nebula/Oscars.

      On the other hand, if you hint about the 9/11 and evil empires (War of the Worlds remake, Star Wars 3 etc.) or someone being killed (The Passion of Jesus) for their love of Christian religion (but obviously not Islam), you will get lots of airtime and win lots of awards.

      Nebula has been the SWFFA's own dildo for some time and most of the books get nominated/voted only by reading the back cover, at least Hugos are nominated by real fans.

    21. Re:Creative Slump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most American writers are lefties and opposed the war.

      The public doesn't give a shit about the arts, though.

    22. Re:Creative Slump by IceAgeComing · · Score: 1

      What world are you living in?

      The phrase was "bombed OR invaded". I was thinking more of the bombing than the invading, in terms of recent history. I think my point was that Americans are still getting used to the concept of massive indiscriminate bombings on their own soil.

  16. There is one... by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's called the Nebula Awards.

    I don't see the problem. There have been years when almost every author was American, and there have been years when almost every author wasn't. Statistically speaking, this isn't that unusual. Maybe it was just a really good year of British writing. I say congratulations to the British, don't sweat it, and maybe we'll do better next year.

    1. Re:There is one... by Justinian+II · · Score: 1

      Can you point to some of the years when almost every author nominated for a Best Novel Hugo was non-North American for me? I say non-"North American" because quite a few SF authors were born in Canada and moved to the USA or were born in the USA and moved to Canada that it gets too complicated to bother with. I think "statistically speaking, this isn't that unusual" is just plain false. There has never been anything close to an all-British ballot prior to this. The closest is something like two British, two more-or-less Canadians, and an American.

  17. Re:Disappointed by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

    We should put together an American version of the Hugos and just ignore them

    Oh please, not another Academy Awards... besides, the Hugo people got a point. I'm sick tired of american talks, TV shows, and even a movie about 9/11. Yes, it was shocking, but the world doesn't move around Uncle Sam.

  18. Who cares where they're from? by Whumpsnatz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've paid little attention to where a writer is from, I just revel in the superb work that's being done these days. Yes, China Mieville evokes a bizarre London, but I'm finishing up Singularity Sky from Stross, and it doesn't seem particularly "British". As for Alistair Reynolds, Dan Simmons, George RR Martin, Peter F Hamilton, and many others, as long as they keep producing brilliant works, I'll keep reading.

  19. It never ceases to amuse me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That the nominees are almost always boy-girl-boy-girl. It's so hilariously PC.

  20. Deep Trauma??? by psykocrime · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Ya know, I was deeply affected by the events of 9/11. I've been a volunteer firefighter nearly my entire life, and I feel a bond of brotherhood with the guys from FDNY, despite the fact that they're career and I'm a volunteer, and the fact that they're up in NY and I'm in NC. I felt like I lost 343 brothers on 9/11.

    But as painful as it was, the events themselves and the loss I felt on that day, isn't what I find most traumatizing about the whole ordeal. What bothers me most is the reaction TO 9/11 by others. Specifically I'm referring to actions taken by our government, done in knee-jerk fashion, which accomplish nothing and will infringe on the freedoms that Americans consider their natural birthright, for many years to come. Things like the Patriot Act, that thing authoring the director of DHS to do basically anything he wants, etc., in the name of the "War on Terror." That is what is truly traumatic.

    --
    // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
    1. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Ya know, I was deeply affected by the events of 9/11.

      Yes, it was a horrible circumstance, but I wonder how soon the laggards will quit obessing about it. Moving on isn't the same as pretending it never happened, I am just saying that there is a time for grieving, and there is a time to move on with life.

      I do agree on your points of the knee-jerk reactions.

      I don't know how this really deals with Hugo. I don't read much SF, so I am out of the loop.

    2. Re:Deep Trauma??? by william_w_bush · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry I have to do this. It's nothing personal. I deserve your scorn.
      I felt like I lost 343 brothers on 9/11.

      What bothers me most is the reaction TO 9/11 by others. Specifically I'm referring to actions taken by our government, done in knee-jerk fashion, which accomplish nothing and will infringe on the freedoms that Americans consider their natural birthright, for many years to come. Things like the Patriot Act, that thing authoring the director of DHS to do basically anything he wants, etc., in the name of the "War on Terror."

      Too true, nothing as self-servingly inhumane as invoking other people's emotional tragedy to politicize and justify ones beliefs.
      --
      The first rule of USENET is you do not talk about USENET.
    3. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      Mind if I mildly insult you and ask WTF?

      I don't get the "brothers in arms" thing at all. Or how 9/11 effected anyone. Maybe I'm odd but I found it laughable at best. Lots of people running through the streets screaming like the sky is falling, so could you possiblely explain it to me too?

      BTW, I'm English and not far from London but I had the same reaction. The bombings have changed nothing in my life so I don't see how/why Americans all freaked out over a couple of planes hitting some buildings when they're MUCH further then an hours drive away..

      Thanks if you answer.

      --
      I like muppets.
    4. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Threni · · Score: 1

      > Too true, nothing as self-servingly inhumane as invoking other people's
      > emotional tragedy to politicize and justify ones beliefs.

      Yep. Quite apart from the fact that ultimately what people are doing is just publicly feeling sorry for themselves. I guess it's just another example of American emotional incontinence.

    5. Re:Deep Trauma??? by KingSkippus · · Score: 1
      I don't get... how 9/11 [a]ffected anyone. Maybe I'm odd but I found it laughable at best. Lots of people running through the streets screaming like the sky is falling, so could you possiblely explain it to me too?

      Ah, crap, I got sucked in. Must be a slow Friday night at work...

      There's several explanations why 9/11 affected everyone so strongly here in America.

      First, there's the fact that around 3,000 people all died. That's a hellova lot of people. They weren't soldiers, they weren't in a war zone, they were just average, ordinary people doing their normal daily routine when literally out of the blue, BAM! Dead. 3,000.

      Second, Americans don't have the worldwide reputation of being arrogant pricks for nothing. *I'M* and American, and I'm painfully aware that most people here think that this country is invincible. 9/11 demonstrated in spectacular fashion that terrorist attacks were no longer a matter of Middle Eastern towelheads killing each other. (A common American stereotype for illustrative purposes, not my perception personally.)

      Third, releated to our perceived invincibility, is the fact that we've never had to deal with this kind of thing before. The last time we were attacked like this was in 1941, and most of the people who were around them are dead now. We don't have an IRA or an ETA. Other than odd wackos here and there, we're not used to mass numbers of people being killed in terrorist attacks. In that sense, we as a country suddenly had to pay the emotional price of being lucky and yes, a bit spoiled.

      3,000 people dying isn't laughable, whether those people are American, English, Iraqui, or Martian. Okay, I admit, if someone had stopped to pick up a penny in the middle of the chaos, that would have been kind of funny. As it was, I don't find any humor in people fleeing in fear for their lives from buildings crashing down on top of them. If you watch the tapes, you'll realize that the sky was falling.

      I have a pretty thick skin, and I did move on shortly after the attacks. It was easy for me because I didn't know anyone who died in the attacks. I don't particularly enjoy when we have periodic shows and such wallowing in the grief and anguish of that day, and I disagree with the notion that we're somehow a stronger country because of the attacks. Frankly, I find a lot of our actions—the lying, the needless killing, the systematic taking away of our freedoms—since the attacks reprehensible. But I do remember the attacks. There's no denying that to this day, they still do affect me in some ways. And if you don't understand why, I feel sorry for you.

    6. Re:Deep Trauma??? by gregski · · Score: 1

      Please excuse my fellow Briton, I think he stepped out of line. I am a Londoner and understand that 9/11 really was a big deal and not in the least funny, but I really dislike the actions that have occured since this tragedy.

      Your government really has preyed on your nations' fears and now it is likely that ours will too post the recent attacks (people who call them the 7/7 attacks are branding them to promote fear). Although i don't agree with all his politics, Micheal Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 really brings it all home.

      I refuse to give in to this fear mongering and indeed used the London tube network two days after the event.

      --
      I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. - Mark Twain
    7. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By 'laughable' I doubt he meant 'funny' so much as 'ridiculous'.

      That may not help at all, of course. Not the best choice of words.

      Me, I felt that Sept 11 was pretty tragic and terrible, (being British but in the US on Sept 10th); however, it got more difficult to deal with every day. First, a media obsession with viewing and reviewing the same disgusting lumps of video - why? why? WTF??? How will it help to watch that person leaping from the nth floor every half an hour for a month? Second, a media obsession with playing endlessly mournful music so we could all cry along. And cry. And cry. And cry. T'ain't healthy.

      There was a real, honestly tragic event in there, and I doubt anybody disputes that.

      But I would describe some of the aftermath as laughable; friends of mine on the other side of the country were "too afraid to visit the city" or "scared every time a plane flew over the house". And some day you just have to get over that... and wallowing it isn't going to help. It's like Barbara Cartland wallowing in her youthful good looks. Some day you just have to accept that it's over.

      As for the "7/7" labelling phenomenon, I don't think Londoners are accepting it. The attitude I've been seeing is "oh fuck it let's go down the pub" and the next week back to work.

    8. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Infonaut · · Score: 1
      people who call them the 7/7 attacks are branding them to promote fear

      That sucks. Talk about a great way to help the terrorists play up their acts. It's like free advertising, over and over and over... .

      I truly hope the UK doesn't go down the road to stupidity that we here in the States did. I think the years of dealing with IRA attacks probably have helped you all maintain some perspective. Best of luck to you in holding off the fearmongers.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    9. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you serious? 3000 people get slaughtered by Muslim extremists and it doesn't effect you? WTF is your problem? Have you no compassion? Have you no outrage at the senselessness?
      Forget about being a Brit for a sec and simply try to be a human f%^&ing being.

    10. Re:Deep Trauma??? by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      First, there's the fact that around 3,000 people all died. That's a hellova lot of people.

      And today is the 60th aniversary of Hiroshima. Ah the irony. You Americans sometimes make me sick.

    11. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      people who call them the 7/7 attacks are branding them to promote fear

      Maybe I'm being callous because I don't really live anywhere near London... but when I heard the news, I remember thinking "Well, this is bad, but it's not 9/11". And then having watched the news and found out most of what I needed to know, got back to what I was doing.

      If anything, I was more worried about the government using it as an excuse to promote more ways to take away peoples' freedom. In all honesty, it was tragic for the people involved, but to let it dictate how the public go about their lives would have been *exactly* to play into the terrorist's hands.

      That 7/7 bullshit doesn't seem to be taking off; most people are just calling them the 'London bombings'.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    12. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      Don't you dare put me out of line for this. I'm right on target and I ment everything I said. America couldn't careless it threw an A-bomb at the Japanese, why should I care someone threw a plane at them?

      I'm not out of line any more then they are, I had a question so I asked it.

      --
      I like muppets.
    13. Re:Deep Trauma??? by mujahaddin · · Score: 1

      What exactly is the irony in bombing a country (albeit with utterly devestating effects, and consequences) which has declared WAR on your country, and that your nation has reciprocated? You Flamebaiters sometimes make me sick.

    14. Re:Deep Trauma??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOW! Some U.K. SF Writers Dominate the Hugos and it turns into a bash America fest...

  21. Re:Disappointed by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

    I'd rather see American writers focus more time writing things that educate Americans in a global manner. There is already more than enough sci-fi,fiction written from the past 50 years, we don't need anymore startrek potter.

    American education literally revolve around European history. I feel like we were only taught Hitler was the greatest leader of all time from highschool. I find myself doing research on the House of Saud and other foreign matters just to keep up on today's news. Who cares about the Hugo award. Shift focus, lets read something else.

  22. Who really cares? by tktk · · Score: 3, Interesting
    How many people here buys books based on where the author is from? This is the first time in 63 years that it's happened. It might be an interesting statistic to help future Jeopardy contestants but right now it doesn't seem like a horrible occurence to me. If the same thing happens over the next few years then maybe something's going on.

    On a side note, a friend of mine for a very long time didn't know that Octivia E. Butler was a woman. I haven't told him yet that she's also African-American.

    1. Re:Who really cares? by Whumpsnatz · · Score: 1

      Also, Octavia Butler writes what seems, from my male perspective, like science fiction based on a woman's perspective. Not that teddy-bear fantasy crap, but serious speculation arising from the view of a bearer of children and nurturer of life. Could a man have imagined a situation where men CAN'T impregnate a woman without alien involvement? I certainly wouldn't have.

      This white male respects her highly.

    2. Re:Who really cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh God. It's the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis of the Feminist movement.

      Guess what? Any thought or idea that a man is capable of having, a woman is also capable of having. Any thought or idea that a woman is capable of having, a man is capable of having.

      To suggest that men write in one style, while women write in another (in your view, superior) is shallow and ignorant in the extreme.
      It also suggests you may not have read very widely.

      I suggest you get out more.

    3. Re:Who really cares? by Cmdr+TECO · · Score: 1

      "It has been suggested that Tiptree is female, a theory I find absurd, for there is to me something ineluctably masculine about Tiptree's writing. I don't think the novels of Jane Austen could have been written by a man nor the stories of Ernest Hemingway by a woman, and in the same way I believe the author of the James Tiptree stories is male," wrote Robert Silverberg in his introduction to Warm Worlds and Otherwise by James Tiptree, Jr, before the person behind the pseudonym revealed herself.

      --
      echo 33676832766569823265328479713269.8639857989Pq | dc
    4. Re:Who really cares? by starling · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How many people here buys books based on where the author is from?

      That's exactly the point. People buy good books, regardless of the author's nationality.

      Right now, US SF authors are mostly churning out either glorified soap operas or thinly disguised political diatribes. So they're not popular.

      On the other hand the UK, and particularly Scotland, has a set - clique, whatever - of novelists who are truly revitalising the genre. Their stories have the same spirit as (ironically) the great books which US authors used to produce. So they win awards.

      Right now there's a definite correlation between nationality and quality of SF. I just hope the US writers get over whatever's bothering them and start writing the good stuff again.

      (BTW, how on earth could someone read an Octavia Butler novel and *not* realise she's African-American.)

    5. Re:Who really cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a side note, a friend of mine for a very long time didn't know that Octivia E. Butler was a woman. I haven't told him yet that she's also African-American.

      What do you mean there were more than one Lassie???

      I'll get my coat...

  23. The Algebraist was definitely deserving ... by isolationism · · Score: 1
    ... And an excellent book it was. If you haven't read it -- even if you aren't a Banks fanboy -- I'd recommend it. No Culture experience required (because it's not a Culture novel).

    That said, I'm a little surprised Alastair Reynolds' "Century Rain" didn't get nominated, as it was also an excellent novel and, perhaps, especially relevant to the /. crowd. I've been meaning to write a review forever (since nobody else has) but I'm lazy, so I just write comments about it hoping someone else will.

    1. Re:The Algebraist was definitely deserving ... by Jett · · Score: 1

      I'm about 2/3 into Century Rain right now and it's blowing me away, definitely one of Reynolds best. There is a great slashdot reference in there too, it's subtle enough that you won't get it unless you know of slashdot. Reynolds, MacLeod, Stross, Morgan - they four of the best SF writers around these days, and all of them have referened Slashdot... it must be a sign.

    2. Re:The Algebraist was definitely deserving ... by tc · · Score: 1

      The Algebraist was a good read, and although you rightly say that it's not a Culture novel, it really did seem to me that the Dwellers were pretty much The Culture by another name, at least in many respects.

    3. Re:The Algebraist was definitely deserving ... by Gax · · Score: 1

      The Algebraist has an interesting premise, but I would not recommend it for someone unfamiliar with space opera. I'm halfway through the paperback at the moment. The writing is stilted in certain sections and background information on dweller society and the universe as a whole are tacked onto ongoing storyline, as opposed to introducing the various aspects when necessary. The book would have been improve if Iain Banks had used the appendix to describe the structure of Dweller society, perhaps an article written by Fassin.

    4. Re:The Algebraist was definitely deserving ... by isolationism · · Score: 1

      Having read the book in its entirety, I think it's pretty clear that reading about Dwellers as an appendix would be utterly inappropriate.

  24. And the winner is... by 1davo · · Score: 1
    How about we hold a /. poll and place our $0.02 for our choice of the finalists to win the prize?

    My vote is for Charlie Stross .

    1. Re:And the winner is... by hazee · · Score: 1

      I'd think that he'd be the favourite round these parts on the grounds that he has been a regular Linux columnist for the UK's Computer Shopper magazine, and is obviously au fait with the whole open source scene, judging by his website.

    2. Re:And the winner is... by Paul+Crowley · · Score: 1

      Can you have any conception of how annoying Charlie will be if he wins a Hugo?

  25. Weird timing by Infonaut · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I read this story right after finally allowing myself to rent Gunner Palace from Netflix. I don't watch TV news, because I feel it insults my intelligence, but as a result I don't see much footage of the war in Iraq. I knew about Gunner Palace for some time, but I never rented it until now probably because I wasn't ready for it.

    It's not that I'm not ready to see the soldiers doing their thing in Iraq. I was a soldier myself, so I appreciate watching soldiers going about their business without any "analysis" from those doing the filming. Rather, I avoided the film until now because I was so angry at the monumentally stupid way in which the war was approached, from its rationale and build up to the invasion, to the beginnings of the occupation stage, to the large-scale operations in Fallujah and elsewhere.

    It is supremely frustrating to see American soldiers doing their jobs with as much humor and professionalism as they can, all the while knowing that the civilian leadership at the top of the pyramid has let them down in a monumental fashion. I experienced something like that on a much smaller scale myself, when my unit left Somalia after not quite three months in country. A few months later, all American forces left Somalia. We had done our job very well, but because the American government had no real plan of action beyond immediate food security operations, a few casualties was all it took to send the global superpower packing.

    So every time I see video footage of Americans in Iraq, I think back to Somalia and the way in which our leaders profoundly misunderstood the situation there before, during and after my deployment. I'm not suggesting that we stay in Iraq indefinitely to "make all those sacrifices worth something." I do, however, think that the monumental planning failures at the top of the food chain have done a tremendous disservice to the men and women of the US armed forces.

    What does all this have to do with Charlie Stross's comment about the "deep trauma" of America? I think that in different ways Americans have been avoiding complex issues in our movies, our fiction, and our music specifically because we have been more deeply affected by the string of events (9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq) than we care to admit even to ourselves. For me, that means avoiding footage of the war. For others the reaction might be keeping minute track of every skirmish and ambush. Some might prefer to ignore the war entirely and pretend it isn't happening.

    Those of us who believe wholeheartedly in the manner in which we are fighting Islamic militants don't want to see anything that will shake our convictions. Subversion in the cultural sphere could easily spread to the political.

    Those of us who are profoundly disappointed by our leaders' lack of imagination, failure of vision, ignorance of history, and misunderstanding of the ground truth don't want to see more of the same in our entertainments. We want to be comforted that somewhere, even if only in fictional worlds, people with power are capable of making the right choice.

    For the majority of the American population, who sit somewhere in the middle, the constant bickering between those who know what to do but can't do it, and those who know what not to do but can't figure out what *to* do is infuriating. We're at a watershed in American history, and people know it, even if they don't articulate it. Decisive, capable heroes, preferably unrelated to the current reality, fit the bill.

    A friend of mine once said that everyone remembers the cultural achievements of Athens, but not of Sparta. Why? Because Sparta was a completely militarized society, while Athens was not. Perhaps yet another part of the bill America must pay for our hamfisted approach is that as we become more militarized, the creative and free-thinking aspects of our society become isolated and minimized.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:Weird timing by ender81b · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine once said that everyone remembers the cultural achievements of Athens, but not of Sparta. Why? Because Sparta was a completely militarized society, while Athens was not. Perhaps yet another part of the bill America must pay for our hamfisted approach is that as we become more militarized, the creative and free-thinking aspects of our society become isolated and minimized.

      Course, history also remembers Sparta as having perhaps the single best infantry (ah the 300) the world has ever seen as well as the only dual monarchy (that I can recall) the world has ever seen. Sparta had perhaps the single most unqiue governmental/societal structure i've ever come across. While people might remember Athen's culture, they often don't remember who won that titanic struggle. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Athens :).

      On a more serious note, I highly recommened Charles Strauss' works. Absolutely excellent work. IN general, i've found to prefer british sci-fi authors anymore - seems that they produce far better work than their american counterparts. Iron Sunrise, and the whole concept behind it, is very imaginative cool work. Kudos to him.

    2. Re:Weird timing by j+h+woodyatt · · Score: 1

      Infonaut writes: Perhaps yet another part of the bill America must pay for our hamfisted approach is that as we become more militarized, the creative and free-thinking aspects of our society become isolated and minimized.

      Some of my favorite genre fiction when I was growing up was written by famous guys like Joseph Heller and not so famous guys like Brian Daley. Guys who were painfully aware of how much of a price this is to pay.

      Labor Day weekend is the 3-Day Novel Contest, and November is National Novel Writing Month. Do not expect these REMF's to pick up a writing implement and do what must be done. It's simply not in their nature. Most of them were all jingo for kicking the Iraqi collective ass, but they weren't willing to sign up (and go there and do that).

      If they didn't have the stones to make good on their lip-flapping about Iraq, they certainly won't have enough backbone to write a novel. Once again, it falls to you to do what they can only pretend.

      --
      jhw
    3. Re:Weird timing by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It wasn't Athens, but it wasn't Sparta, either. Those two essentially wore each other out and left the field clear for what had been the lesser powers. One of which developed into Rome.

      (I'm leaving Macedonia out of this, because it was possible that Athens or Sparta could have revived after the death of Alexander. Didn't happen, but it could have.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    4. Re:Weird timing by Kohath · · Score: 1

      I was so angry at the monumentally stupid way in which the war was approached, from its rationale and build up to the invasion, to the beginnings of the occupation stage, to the large-scale operations in Fallujah and elsewhere.

      Yet you can't seem to point a single specific "stupid" thing you noticed.

      So every time I see video footage of Americans in Iraq, I think back to Somalia

      Why not go with Vietnam? If you want to live in the past, you'd have more people there with you if you went with Vietnam. Everyone else is doing it.

      I do, however, think that the monumental planning failures at the top of the food chain have done a tremendous disservice to the men and women of the US armed forces.

      Again, no specific "planning failures" mentioned and no concrete examples of this "disservice".

      Those of us who are profoundly disappointed by our leaders' lack of imagination, failure of vision, ignorance of history, and misunderstanding of the ground truth don't want to see more of the same in our entertainments.

      Failure to imagine what? Failure to envision what? Ignorance of what specific lessons of history? Misunderstanding of what ground truth?

      between those who know what to do but can't do it, and those who know what not to do but can't figure out what *to* do is infuriating

      From your post, you seem to know neither what to do, nor what not to do. You certainly haven't given an example of either. Your post is almost completely without substance, but it goes on for almost a page. You have no ideas to offer and no insight on any specific event. Just vague criticism.

      What political office are you running for?

      I have a lesson from history for you:

      All wars always go badly. Things never work out the way you want them to. Regrets are unavoidable. Mistakes happen. The future is always largely unforseen.

      When the inevitable bad things happen, those things have to be overcome -- you can't let them overcome you -- or you fail. That'll be how the outcome of the war on terrorism is decided -- the allies will either choose to succeed or they'll lose heart and give up.

      How do you think your complaining fits into that picture?

    5. Re:Weird timing by demachina · · Score: 1

      "... all the while knowing that the civilian leadership at the top of the pyramid has let them down in a monumental fashion."

      To understand Iraq and why it is like it is you need to understand the real motivation of the people that started it. A good primer often posted on Slashdot is The Power of Nightmares a 3 part BBC documentary. It gets a little weak in chapter 3 but chapters 1 and 2 are priceless in understanding the Bush/Blair administrations, Islamic fundamentalists and how much alike they are.

      In synopsis, there are a number of people in the Bush administration, who subscribe to the theories of or were educated by Leo Strauss.

      Strauss' driving theory was the western liberalism and moral relativism was a disastrous failure, people are losing their compass in life because of it, and this was leading to a breakdown in society. The solution Strauss proposed was that the leaders of the nation need to create easily understood myths, that could be used to unite people behind causes they could easily understand and support, causes that would give their lives meaning, direction and purpose.

      Anytime you hear Western leaders describing the world in terms of good and evil these days chances are you are hearing echoes of Leo Strauss and neoconservative speechwriters of his school. Their objective is to paint their nation, its leaders and its people as champions of good and their nations enemies as the epitome of evil.

      One of the first modern instances of this philosophy, in action, occurred during the Reagan administration. The neocons created a shadow intelligence agency called Team B. Team B analyzed all the same intelligence the CIA analyzed on the Soviet Union. Who was on Team B, among other Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. The CIA found no evidence of a serious buildup or military threat from the Soviet Union. Team B found evidence of nothing but a massive buildup, secret weapons and an imminent danger of sneak attack. The neocons, in particular William Casey, head of the CIA insisted the Soviet Union was behind a global terrorism network. CIA analysts said it wasn't the case. Why because they had planted all the propaganda about this global terrorism network and they knew it was a lie but the neocons insisted it was reality.

      You see the neocons were manufacturing a myth, that the Soviet Union was the epitome of evil and an imminent threat to the U.S. and the world when in fact it was a decrepit and incompetent regime heading towards collapse. You might remember Reagan calling it the "evil empire" which is classic Staussian rhetoric.

      Fast forward to Iraq and you find George W. Bush calling them part of the "axis of evil", classic Straussian rhetoric. You find once again a special office was created, this time in the Pentagon, to analyze all the evidence on Iraq that the CIA was analyzing. It was called the Office of Special Plans, though it was really Team B, the sequel. CIA analysts found no case for WMD's in Iraq, or ties to 9/11. This special office under Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith and Richard Perle, found nothing but evidence of WMD's, ties to 9/11 and imminent danger to the U.S. from Iraq. You might recall the one about drones from Iraq spraying American cities with chemical and biological weapons Fox News in particular played to great effect right before the war.

      What you see in Iraq today was another case of the neocons creating a myth, one in which America was the force of good while Saddam's Iraq was evil incarnate. The war in Iraq had no real justification because all of the purported threats posed by Iraq were based on fantasy and myth creation. The only purpose of the war in Iraq was to unite the American people against a regime that was easy to portray as evil. It was an easy myth for the American people to understand, and it was a target that was easy to destroy with a modern military, while scattered underground Islamic extremists were not.

      The problem wi

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      @de_machina
    6. Re:Weird timing by Infonaut · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yet you can't seem to point a single specific "stupid" thing you noticed.

      My point wasn't to go into a treatise about why the war was misguided, but since you're asking, I believe that al Qaeda attacked America in 9/11, and we wisely attacked its base of operations in Afghanistan. However, there has never been any convincing proof that Iraq had any real connection to al Qaeda, or that diverting essential resources to invade and occupy Iraq has helped rather than hindered the fight against al Qaeda. We should have learned enough from the experiences Western European nations had in fighting terrorist cells in the 1970s and 80s to understand that successfully eliminating terrorists is a matter of long-term deterrence, and that the military is in most respects utterly ill-suited to the police work required to take down terrorists. As I mention in another post, there were a raft of preventable mistakes in the planning phase of the war, once it was decided upon.

      Why not go with Vietnam? If you want to live in the past, you'd have more people there with you if you went with Vietnam. Everyone else is doing it.

      I never directly compared the operational situation in Somalia to that of Iraq, and Vietnam is even further off the mark as any student of military history knows. My point in bringing up Somalia was that as a soldier there I felt let down by the civilian leadership, and I feel the soldiers in Iraq today are being let down by the current leadership.

      Failure to imagine what? Failure to envision what? Ignorance of what specific lessons of history? Misunderstanding of what ground truth?

      Failure to imagine options other than a ground invasion of a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Ignorance of any number of lessons about the limits of power, including those learned the hard way by the British when they ruled Iraq from 1918 to 1932. Misunderstanding of the ground truth that rather than being greeted with flowers in the streets of Iraq's towns and cities, Iraqi nationalism transcended Saddam. It is not a secret that in the run-up to the war that we were relying on intelligence sources that fed us what we wanted to hear.

      From your post, you seem to know neither what to do, nor what not to do. You certainly haven't given an example of either. Your post is almost completely without substance, but it goes on for almost a page. You have no ideas to offer and no insight on any specific event. Just vague criticism.

      My post was not intended to be a lengthy critique of the war, or an alternate plan for its prosecution. Its substance, for whatever it is worth, is my emotional response to reading Stross's comments about America's "deep trauma". I can understand why you don't like my response, but I think it is important to take it in context.

      What political office are you running for?

      Don't worry, I have no interest in running for office.

      All wars always go badly. Things never work out the way you want them to. Regrets are unavoidable. Mistakes happen. The future is always largely unforseen.

      I agree.

      When the inevitable bad things happen, those things have to be overcome -- you can't let them overcome you -- or you fail. That'll be how the outcome of the war on terrorism is decided -- the allies will either choose to succeed or they'll lose heart and give up.

      We are in absolute agreement on this point. I believe without a doubt that we will succeed. We will adapt and learn, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't feel sorrow at what I perceive to be tragic and costly mistakes we have made thus far. The Bush Administration's failure to learn from its mistakes weakens our overall effort and means that it will take more lives, money, and time to wipe out the deranged militants who are trying hard to defeat us.

      How do you think your complaining fits into that picture?

      If enough people complain, and it forces the government to pursue more effective policies in the fight against terrorists, I see it as worthwhile.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    7. Re:Weird timing by Kohath · · Score: 0

      there has never been any convincing proof that Iraq had any real connection to al Qaeda

      Here are pages and pages and pages of information about the connection.

      The rest of your post is somewhat reasonable (at least on the surface), but I fail to see how allowing terrorists a permanent base in Iraq with Saddam Hussein as their patron helps the cause against the terrorists.

      If enough people complain, and it forces the government to pursue more effective policies in the fight against terrorists, I see it as worthwhile.

      Monday-morning-quarterbacking the war effort doesn't strike me as particularly helpful. That's especially true when it's based on a faulty premise.

    8. Re:Weird timing by nightgeometry · · Score: 1

      The linked article has two main thrusts, from my reading. First there is a 13 point list. This list goes to show that someone in the Iraqi army became a potential terrorist. Not that the Iraqi army sponsored this, nor even that they supplied him with weapons to do his evil terrorist deeds (one point was that he specifically was not supplied with a gun by the Iraqi army, but by others - seems unusual for an Iraqi army sponsored terrorist...). Yes, the periods of involvement overlap, this seems to be the only possible link. Obviously because he was in the army, and because he became a potential terrorist the two are linked...

      The rest of the article seems to go on about the view that once American invasion of Iraq was inevitable (the second time), lots of militant Islamic types flooded to Iraq. This doesn't seem surprising. You want to cause pain to an enemy, you know where thay are going to be, you go there.

      In general it is documented (no links, sorry), that Bin Laden and Hussein did meet, with hope of agreeing on great things, but pathologically hated each other. Their two brands of religion and leadership approach more incompatible than... well any other imaginable link (imagiine a fundamentalist Catholic wanting to co-operate with a ex-catholic, and you get a similar image).
      Hell, it would be easier to imagine Bin Laden working for the US, say the CIA or something...

      --
      The best is the enemy of the good
    9. Re:Weird timing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sparta is also remembered for living off the backs of a brutally repressed nation of slaves. Other cultures of the time had slaves, but even the (much later) Romans didn't enslave an entire nation.

    10. Re:Weird timing by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      The rest of your post is somewhat reasonable (at least on the surface), but I fail to see how allowing terrorists a permanent base in Iraq with Saddam Hussein as their patron helps the cause against the terrorists.

      If there were terrorists in Iraq sponsored by Saddam they I may agree but Iraq had *absolutely nothing* to do with the terrorists, Al Quiada or any thing that happened in 9/11. The shrub just wanted to one up his dad and get Saddam.

      The official reason for the war has changed over the last couple of years from "weapons of mass destruction", through "harbouring terrorism" to "saving the people from Saddam's tyrany".

      The sad fact is that why he was there 80% of the population were fine. Okay the remainder suffered terribly but I'm not sure it's so good now. It's like when Tito (Communist dictator of Yugoslavia) died, there was a subsequent power vacuum resulting in the Balkan wars (Bosnia etc). The same thing's happening in Iraq.

      We shouldn't have gone in and when we did we fucked up.

    11. Re:Weird timing by -Harlequin- · · Score: 1


      Here are pages and pages and pages of information about the connection.


      Uh, those pages and pages just confirm there was no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

      If that's the best that is out there, case closed.

    12. Re:Weird timing by M1FCJ · · Score: 1
      Duh...

      From the article you linked:

      1. From 1987 to 1989, the detainee served as an infantryman in the Iraqi Army and received training on the mortar and rocket propelled grenades.

      2. A Taliban recruiter in Baghdad convinced the detainee to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban in 1994.

      Now... The problem is the first line, meaning that the Iraqi army gave this guy training to be an Al Queda operative. The fact is, Iraq didn't have a volunteer army as American or British armies are, they had an conscript army, meaning all Iraqi men at a certain age had to go through their couple of years and get trained.

      This only documents that an Iraqi became an Al Queda operative. It doesn't mean that there is a link between the previous Iraqi government and the Al Queda, nor any funding. Even more, last couple of weeks news proves that there are British people who work as Al Queda operatives. Does this mean British Government has links with Al Queda?

    13. Re:Weird timing by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Bin Laden and Hussein did meet ... but pathologically hated each other

      Even if true, so what? It's the war on terrorism, not the war on Bin Laden.

      A couple of years ago, Iraq had a government that sponsored terrorism and harbored terrorists. Now Iraq doesn't.

    14. Re:Weird timing by Kohath · · Score: 1

      The official reason for the war has changed over the last couple of years from "weapons of mass destruction", through "harbouring terrorism" to "saving the people from Saddam's tyrany".

      There were either 22 or 23 "reasons for the war" in the bill that authorized it. The vote was not close.

      We shouldn't have gone in and when we did we fucked up.

      We did the right thing going in, and the strategy is working.

    15. Re:Weird timing by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Uh, those pages and pages just confirm there was no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

      Read it again. Maybe open your eyes this time.

    16. Re:Weird timing by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      Looking at the URL next to my nick should indicate that (a) it's not my congress and (b) I don't give a monkeys what the ever arogant american goverment thinks. I was talking about *my* government.

    17. Re:Weird timing by -Harlequin- · · Score: 1

      Like I said, nothing of significance. With the amount of scrutiney Iraq has been under, if this is the best there is, Case Closed.

      There was also sometimes a noticable absense of the contradictory evidence that later emerged, evidence which defeased things that initially seemed indefeasible. In that sense, it was a good article for leading people to mistaken conclusions though.

  26. Maybe they're all waiting out the regime by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    and are really Americans living in the UK ...

    hey, when your skills are in your head like writers are, you can live anywhere you want to.

    Arthur C. Clarke, for example, lived in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon). Many writers move when they want to, or reside in more than one country.

    Besides, does it really matter?

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  27. Re:Disappointed by protohiro1 · · Score: 1

    Agreed. However, I would be interested to know what people think was the best american sci fi. And what scifi people think really demonstrates the effect of 9/11 on genre fiction, because I hadn't noticed it, per se, I just haven't been reading a lot of american sci fi. (except for John C Wright's stuff, which I didn't really care for)

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    Sig removed because it was obnoxious
  28. The Scoop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, it's just Karma Whoring.

  29. Lets face it the Brits rule SF... by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    ...and have for a long time.

    We Americans have given a good effort, but....

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    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  30. Why the future could be British? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Possibly because that past was British as well.

    I'm 40, and I remember much of the most thoughtful SF I grew up with was British. There were all kinds of TV and movies that would never have been made in the US but had big numbers in the UK. It was always very thoughtfull and hardly ever the action movies stuff that passes for SF in the US. It just seemed to be the British in general were more thoughtful, quirky, and odd and more accepting of those traits than Americans. Its seems they had a lock on most of the media and took a little time to catch up in the novel dept.

  31. Utter bullcrap. by Fermatprime · · Score: 1
    Let's just assume for a moment that about half of the Hugo "best novel" nominations are by American authors (I have no idea what the actual figure is, but this shouldn't be too far off). At five nominations per year, this gives a 1/32 chance that NONE of the nominees will be American. So the odds that something like this will happen in a 60+ - year time period are very high.

    Even supposing that this can't be chalked up to pure chance, Stross' comment means nothing. He blames it on 9/11; I could blame it on a decreasing attention span of American writers (so they can't keep a novel together), an inherent anti-Americanism in the nominating process, or one of literally dozens of other possible "reasons." It doesn't make them all true.

    Finally, anyone who wants to can find some sort of pattern in the nominees for any given year. (Oh look, none of the nominated authors' names begin with vowels! There must be some anti-vowel force in the universe at this moment...)

    This is an interesting occurrence, but it's pointless to try to find a "reason" for it.

    --
    I hate the one hundred and twenty character limit for signatures with an all-enveloping, all-destroying, incredible pass
    1. Re:Utter bullcrap. by nagora · · Score: 1
      At five nominations per year, this gives a 1/32 chance that NONE of the nominees will be American

      Today's false axiom: Hugo award nominations are picked at random in an unbiased way.

      Anyone looking at the history of the award would know that this is, or has not been, even close to true.

      I agree that Sross' assertion would require some depth of research to make it anything more than idle speculation, though.

      TWW

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    2. Re:Utter bullcrap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      At five nominations per year, this gives a 1/32 chance that NONE of the nominees will be American.

      Score 1 for thinking that 'not British' = American.

      Open your frickin eyes & realise there's a world out there, moron.

  32. Just not that great? by StefanJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really enjoy the Harry Potter books, and dread the wait for the next and last book in the series.

    But lets get real: We're not talking about great literature or ground-breaking fantasy.

    That said, I thought book #6 was the best since The Prisoner of Azkaban. A great read, but still not what I'd consider Hugo material.

    Stefan

  33. Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Some of the best American SF was written by counterculturalists during the 1960s and 1970s. With the exception of Gibson, the "go-go 1980s" and science-fictional 1990s produced vastly worse signal:noise in SF. Americans have to pick another reason for our current decline, other than a couple of planebombs hitting buildings here in NYC, as bad as that was.

    Maybe a better explanation is the rise of "faith-based" fiction, and undereducated consumers of SF generally? That "science fiction" has become really just "romance with special effects", with no experimental ideas or social "what-ifs". Or maybe American SF has always been marketing for technology, and we're now so saturated with that anyway, without any new ideas about ourselves necessary, that we just don't have to do the fiction anymore.

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    1. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Whumpsnatz · · Score: 1

      signal:noise? So does this dominance by the British constitute A Signal Shattered (Eric Nylund)?

    2. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Haven't received any data about Nylund. What's in there?

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    3. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Bishop · · Score: 1

      American SF (and possibly all American literature) is suffering from publishers who don't want to take a risk. Too many publishers are looking for the next big best seller.

    4. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Are British publishers taking risks? Are any paying off? Are these Hugos evidence that they're getting the rewards of being in the game, in the UK?

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    5. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Bishop · · Score: 1

      I don't think that British publishers are taking risks looking for pay offs. They are simply willing to publish books that they know will have a limited audience and a small run.

    6. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of a payoff in good books. I've never noticed Hugos to correlate to good books, in my experience. But I suppose they probably do correlate to increased sales.

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    7. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Kukuman · · Score: 1

      With the exception of Gibson, the "go-go 1980s" and science-fictional 1990s produced vastly worse signal:noise in SF.

      yeah, and Gibson doesn't even live in America anymore... he's lived in Vancouver BC since 1972.

    8. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      According to Bruce Sterling, Gibson showed up in Texas in the early 1980s with his cyberpunk material, blowing everyone's mind.

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      make install -not war

    9. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Bishop · · Score: 1
      Sorry for the misunderstanding.

      After some thought I have decided that I cannot truthfully answer your question. Having checked my bookshelf I found that:

      I have very few books that were published in the past 10 years.

      Of those books that were published in the past 10 years most were by authors I already knew and enjoyed (e.g. Neal Stephenson).

      All but one of the new authors appear to be from the UK. That could just be a coincidence or I am biased.

      I think that I may have made a mistake. My original premise (American publishers only look for best sellers.) may be a result of my own bias. Upon reflection I realise that I prefer UK authors.

    10. Re:Goodbye, Miss American Sci-Fi by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Hey, statistically it's clear that I prefer UK rock bands. And I don't have many records on my "shelf" (hard drive ;) recorded in the last 10 years. Maybe it's the language, and a greater emphasis on cleverness in its use. Maybe there's some other dynamic, like featuring subtle communicators in connection with deep art roots, that distinguishes UK "literature", but not US. Or maybe it's easier to see their individual trees, despite their forest, from across the Atlantic. UKians certainly seem to appreciate lots of American pop culture.

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      make install -not war

  34. Maybe this will be helpful... by KingSkippus · · Score: 2, Informative

    It may not be quite what you're looking for, but this may be helpful. Amazon.com has a buried section (why, I don't know, and I can't even remember how I found it) called Libros en español that is nothing but Spanish language books.

    There's a section under it called Ciencia ficción y fantasía

    I'm not necessarily pitching Amazon.com. Even if you don't want to buy off of Amazon.com because of patent issues, it may give you a good list of titles to look for somewhere else.

    Another possiblity is to look specifically at Spanish or Mexican online stores. For example, I was looking for a Spanish language book and couldn't find it in America anywhere. I ended up buying it from Spain at Casa del Libro. Yeah, it cost more to have it shipped here and I had to pay in Euro (not a problem if you charge it on a credit card), but it was just what the doctor ordered. Bookstores in other countries will tend to focus more on authors from that country and authors who write in that country's native language.

  35. Great News for Banks by Pop69 · · Score: 1

    Brilliant news for the Kingdom of Fife

    Ian Banks stays down the road from me, don't actually know the guy but he's from Fife same as me so he must be a genius !!!!!

    1. Re:Great News for Banks by ebcdic · · Score: 1

      And Charlie Stross lives just across the Forth in Edinburgh. Last time I saw him was in the pub at an EdLUG (Edinburgh Linux User Group) meeting.

    2. Re:Great News for Banks by Pop69 · · Score: 1

      It really is a small world isn't it ?

  36. Re:Disappointed by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1
    the world doesn't move around Uncle Sam.

    You know its the Neo-Copurnicons like you who are comforting our enemies.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
  37. Re:9/11, the cause of every american failure by ActionJesus · · Score: 1

    *side note: didnt RTFA.

    Appears the person who gave the original quote is (?) British.

    He's still a tool though.

  38. History and temperment by Infonaut · · Score: 1
    The bombings have changed nothing in my life so I don't see how/why Americans all freaked out over a couple of planes hitting some buildings when they're MUCH further then an hours drive away..

    That's why the use of 9/11 as a rationale for everything from the USA Patriot Act to the War in Iraq is so absurd. The government stoked the flames of fear and continues to do so to this day.

    But there is more to America's reaction that just that. First, being a Londoner, you're familiar with the notion of an enemy reaching out and bombing the crap out of your city. You recognize that taking a hit doesn't mean the end, and that democratic societies are quite resilient.

    America's geographic isolation, and the fact that other than a few pesky U-Boats off the Eastern Seaboard and a random Japanese balloon bomb in World War II, we haven't been hit by a foreign enemy since the War of 1812, when you guys came over and torched D.C.

    We've been so isolated for so long that we have come to internalize the notion that wars happen in other places, "over there." They certainly don't actually occur here on our soil. Plus, the 9/11 attacks simultaneously targeted the seat of our government, the nerve center of our defenses, and the core of our economic power all at once. From literally out of the blue, we went from a state of relative tranquility to being attacked with a decapitation strike. You must admit, that's not your garden-variety event.

    So yes, Americans were a bit freaked out by this. But we're not really as freaked out as we seem, even though our government wants us to be.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:History and temperment by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I wish I could believe that the motives are as honest and clean as you claim. I, personally, don't think that a single action taken by the government was motivated by 9/11. That was merely a smoke-screen raised as a justifier for what they wanted to do anyway.

      The government has not taken even one action as the result of it's "anit-terrorism" policies that would render any of the decision makers (presumably the chief targets) even a bit uncomfortable. But now people wanting to fly as passengers are subject to ridgid controls and arbitrary denial of rights. It is pretended that fingernail clippers are too dangerous to trust passengers to possess them. PLEASE!

      Contemplate the patriot act, and ask yourself "cui bono?". I betcha it isn't you.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:History and temperment by Infonaut · · Score: 1
      I wish I could believe that the motives are as honest and clean as you claim.

      I never claimed their motives were honest and clean. I actually pointed out that the 9/11 attacks have been used as a rationale for many things that have nothing to do with 9/11.

      That said, I don't buy the argument that the Bush Administration came in from Day 1 with a plan to invade Afghanistan, invade Iraq, set up an enormous new domestic security apparatus, restrict domestic freedoms, and so on. I'll accept the idea that Iraq was in the reticle from the beginning, but the rest of it to me looks like a reflex response to fast-moving circumstances.

      Social conservatives tend to trust strong centralized power as a more effective means of prevailing against an external threat. Hell, most Americans buy into the notion that only by putting our faith in One Strong Leader can we beat the terrorists.

      Don't forget that the Department of Homeland Security was first proposed by the Democrats, and the Bush team was dead set against it. They then flipped 180 degrees and bashed anyone who didn't support it as unAmerican. Obviously the DHS wasn't part of some grand plan, as the beast is still wobbly at best.

      The government has not taken even one action as the result of it's "anit-terrorism" policies that would render any of the decision makers (presumably the chief targets) even a bit uncomfortable.

      I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Senators and Congressmen don't all have private jets. In fact, Senator Ted Kennedy was on the no fly list for a while, which caused a big stink.

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    3. Re:History and temperment by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Senator Kennedy is not in a decison making position. That's those in the executive branch...and there chiefly those at the top.

      I'll grant you that both parties have element in them aiming at the same goal. In the republican part they appear to have been the dominant element for awhile, this doesn't mean that they don't exist in the democratic part too. I'm sure there are some Republicans concerned about the environment and human rights. They just aren't making any decisions.

      I understand that certain groups promote strong centralized power. I also understand that many people have bought into this. That doesn't mean that I either accept it, buy into it, or believe that those making the decisions buy into it. (They've got more obvious reasons for likeing authoritarian control.)

      Do I believe that the Bush administration "...came in from Day 1 with a plan to invade Afghanistan, invade Iraq, set up an enormous new domestic security apparatus, restrict domestic freedoms, and so on."? Well, the evidence isn't conclusive, but there's hardly ANY evidence against that contention. And most of what exists is arguing from "it would be difficult", or "Nobody would be so evil!" (to quote my mother's initial reaction to the suggestion). Unfortunately, there is evidence that it was pre-planned by government sources. This evidence is also weak, but not quite as weak as the evidence against that contention. The upshot: "Anyone who invests certainty in a decision based on the available evidence is misguided...but it leans towards preplanning by some group highly connected in the government."

      Personally, since I feel that the government could have produced better evidence whether it were innocent or not...I'm left ambivalent. There are many suspicious circumstances that have not been satisfactorially explained. Probably (51%? 50.5%? Accuract indeterminable.) there was such a plan, but it was a rather loose one, and there was a lot of ad hoc improvisation, with only a very few people knowing what their actions were intended to result in. Whether Bush was directly involved...dubious. I suspect his old man, but others have suggested other names, and there's really no evidence for any of them.

      It certainly would be nice to think our government was honest and trustworthy...but it never has been, so it's no surprise that it isn't now.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  39. The business of the future by StefanJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd mod this up if I had the points.

    I can't bring myself to visit the SF & F section of bookstores often these days.

    When I do, I'm struck by the large amount of "comfort food" fiction: Either outright fantasy, or fiction nominally set in the future but whose society and technology essentially duplicate that of a familiar and understandable past.

    I've quoted this before, but it fits:

    "It is the business of the future to be dangerous, and it is amoung the benefits of science that it equips the future for its duties."

    Alfred North Whitehead, 1925


    " . . . lack of imagination, failure of vision, ignorance of history . . . "

    Damn straight.

    American politics and culture seem dead set on crawling into the past where everything was swell and things made sense*, and when faced with something scary that might require sacrifice, imagination, and change, a class of professional blowhards, F.U.D. artists, and useful idiots rise to their feet screaming that there is no problem.

    We're even losing our nerve when it comes to dealing with opportunities.

    Stefan

    * Assuming you were middle class, white, and didn't have a goddamn clue or did but didn't care.

  40. If you think that is odd by loadquo · · Score: 1

    Try needle in the grove by Jeff Noon. Or perhaps feersum enjin (sp?) by Iain M. Banks

    1. Re:If you think that is odd by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      "Feersum Endjinn" is a great book. Also, in a roughly similar vein (language-wise), "Riddley Walker" by Russell Hoban...

    2. Re:If you think that is odd by stjobe · · Score: 1

      Feersum Endjinn :)
      In which the protagonists story is told like this:

      "Woak up. Got dresd. Had brekfast. Spoke wif Ergates thi ant who sed itz juss been wurk wurk wurk 4 u lately master Bascule, Y dont u 1/2 a holiday? & I agreed & that woz how we decided we otter go 2 c Mr Zoliparia in thi I-ball ov thi gargoyle Rosbrith.
      I fot Id bettir clear it wif thi relivint oforitis furst & hens avoyd any trouble (like happind thi lastime) so I went 2 c mentor Scalopin."

      Makes for a bit of a slow read, but it's perfectly parseable, and it really makes the character stand out.

      It's a book I'd recommend to anyone.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  41. The real reason is probably much simpler by Andy_R · · Score: 1

    To nominate a book for a Hugo award, you need to be a member of this year's World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon). This year's Worldcon is in Britain. You do the math.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    1. Re:The real reason is probably much simpler by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      To nominate a book for a Hugo award, you need to be a member of this year's World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon). This year's Worldcon is in Britain. You do the math.

      Except people bought their WorldCon tix a long time ago, and you're ignoring the Permanent WorldCon Floating Committee.

      Perhaps it's that those who went to the WorldCon might have been reading more British/UK SF than usual, in preparation for the trip, and thus would tend to nominate such authors more than average?

      [yes, I remember Jane's Fighting SMOFs well ...]

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:The real reason is probably much simpler by pnh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except that, in fact, the solid majority of those casting nominating ballots were Americans. You do the math.

  42. Re:9/11, the cause of every american failure by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    seriously, get a grip. Not everything is a direct result of what america wants to believe is the worlds worst tragedy. Hey, if every writer was british, that means there was no asian writers! They must all be traumatised by that big wave thing!

    It's just our way of dealing with the decline of the American Empire, just like when the British had to deal with the decline of the British Empire.

    We'll get over it, learn Mandarin, and be happy serfs, just give us time.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  43. Not far off by dustrider · · Score: 1

    I'm a big fan of Stross, really like his style.

    And I have to say that I agree with him to a point, Stephenson and Gibson both dwelled on 9/11 to a certain extent. I personally felt Gibson probably did it to excess in "Pattern Recognition". Hell even bloody Dan Brown mentioned it in "Davinci Code", but that by no means is a purely American trait.

    Hell, Stross himself did a bit of an allegory of it in "Iron sunrise", weapons of mass destruction, nazi types taking over the unverse, etc. etc. In fact in "sky" he also works in the whole war on terror angle. He does however do it in very subtle ways and never mentions it directly like all good escapisms should.

    Have to say though that at the moment, the best Fantasy writers are still American, go psycho-analyse that.

  44. Funny, I base my comma placement on natural pauses by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Haven't had an English teacher complain yet. And to me, those commas are in quite natural places for pausing.

  45. Re:Disappointed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    racist fascist

  46. Re:9/11, the cause of every american failure by idsofmarch · · Score: 1
    It wasn't just the tragedy of 9/11, but it was the combination of media coverage that repeated the images of fire and dust over and over, but also it broke the American ideal that we are special. We are protected by the oceans, we are protected because of our democracy, we are special loved children of the world and we couldn't believe that the world's problems could reach out and slap us.

    As for Asian writers, you may see more fiction in the region that relates to disasters because simply people write about their own time, even when looking towards the future and the past.

    --
    Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
  47. Re:Funny, I base my comma placement on natural pau by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

    Putting commas in place for spoken pauses is a simple rule of thumb that is surprisingly accurate, given that it's wholly incorrect.

    The correct use for commas in modern English is in seperating list elements (discussed elsewhere in this thread) and for delimiting non-essential phrases, such as parenthetical asides or prepositional constructions. Note that this implies that non-list commas always appear in pairs, unless the phrase begins or ends the sentence, in which case the closure is assumed.

    In spoken English, one often pauses at the boundaries of such phrases, which is what gives rise to the common misconception about comma placement.

  48. Re:Funny, I base my comma placement on natural pau by Requiem+Aristos · · Score: 2, Informative

    I suggest looking for better English teachers. Commas should be used for separation of list items, independent clauses, and appositive phrases. The poster's second phrase contains an appositive, and thus deserves the commas, but his "corrected" line contains none of the aforementioned items.

    (For the pedants, yes, I am aware that the list above is not fully comprehensive. I am also aware of the requirement for a coordinating conjunction in one of the above cases, but consider those additional cases to be largely irrelevant to the issue at hand.)

  49. Britains last 10 years were rosier than US? by 1ooser · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does the author imply that Britain's last 10 years were somehow better than US' years? These are the people who are much more used to terrorist attacks and now don't even question cameras on every street corner. I am sure in proportion to their population they have lost many more lives to terrorism than us. Stop looking for excuses!

    --
    Paint yourself into a corner, burn the bridges!, and you will feel the liberty of a man who has nothing to lose!
    1. Re:Britains last 10 years were rosier than US? by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      Does the author imply that Britain's last 10 years were somehow better than US' years? These are the people who are much more used to terrorist attacks and now don't even question cameras on every street corner. I am sure in proportion to their population they have lost many more lives to terrorism than us. Stop looking for excuses!

      They also now have cameras that watch other cameras because of so many being purposely destroyed.

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
  50. Misread title by SleepyHappyDoc · · Score: 1

    I was skimming the main page, and I (thought I) saw:

    "UK: SF Writers dominate Hugos"

    Implying (in my mind) that the United Kingdom was somehow upset that the Hugo Awards were biased towards science fiction writers, as opposed to other writers in other genres. Knowing what a Hugo is, made this seem massively funny.

    Then I RTFA, and realized it wasn't near that funny.

    --
    Stasis is death. Embrace change.
  51. Completely agree by 1ooser · · Score: 1

    Does Mr Stross imply that Britain's last 10 years were somehow better than US' years? These are the people who are much more used to terrorist attacks and now don't even question cameras on every street corner. I am sure in proportion to their population they have lost many more lives to terrorism than us. Stop looking for excuses!

    --
    Paint yourself into a corner, burn the bridges!, and you will feel the liberty of a man who has nothing to lose!
  52. Yeah, Right... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "currently US genre writers are mirroring the 'deep trauma' that 9/11 wrought on America."

    Bullshit.

    They're mirroring the "deep trauma" that being unable to write anything except "Lord of the Rings" ripoffs has inflicted them with.

    Enough of this fantasy shit.

    If you can't write worth a shit because somebody flew a plane into a building and killed a couple thousand people, then you couldn't write for shit before.

    Am I supposed to claim I'm "traumatized" because 150,000 people got killed in the tsunami, or 100,000 Iraqi civilians got blown up by our illustrious warriors (over 1,800 of whom in turn got their asses waxed)? Is that why I can't make a buck?

    Where is Thomas Harris - who can write wonderful satire about psychiatrists and cops urning into cannibals - when we need him?

    Somebody needs to write a "Catch-22" or "M.A.S.H." or "Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal" about Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

    I guess I need to get cracking on my "Transhuman" series of novels - more rabid sex and merciless gunning down of monkeys than anybody has seen since the Marquis de Sade...

    I got your "deep trauma" right here, assholes.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  53. Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by spineboy · · Score: 1
    My bro is in London and apparently chavs are people who spend all their time dressed in track suits(sweats) and sneakers(trainers). Maybe not unlike an american guido.

    Any feedback from any native Great Britainers who might be better at relating the subtilties of "chavs"?

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chav:
      Council House And Vulgar

      In other words, people who wear track (formerly shell) suits and trainers pretty much covers it.

    2. Re:Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by Col.+Bloodnok · · Score: 3, Informative

      A Chav is roughly the equivalent of the American redneck, in that it's the last cultural group that we're allowed to make fun of (with the possible exception of gypsies and the welsh).

      White, lower-than working class (they don't work), benefit scroungers. They are primarly interested in drugs, alcohol, hooded garments and have an intricate knowledge of the benefits system. Their language is a bizarre mixture of estuary-english and hiphop, with a bit of asian patois thrown in 'innit'.

    3. Re:Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      I think since Rab C Nesbitt we are allowed to make fun of the Scotch as well and being half Welsh fuck you at least we got Tim Burton and Gorky's. Go ahead and download Rab C Nesbitt episodes the language is an almost impossible Glasweigen but it is fucking hilarious.

    4. Re:Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What has Rab C Nesbitt got to do with an alcoholic drink? Do you mean Scots?

    5. Re:Chavs definned for 'Mericans! Help? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Rab C Nesbitt is more Scotch than Scot I'm afraid.

  54. See h2g2 by salvorHardin · · Score: 1

    For a general overview of what happens in British English (aka English English), see the h2g2 style guidelines.
    Personally, I would punctuate the above as "Some years ago, there was, in the city of York, a society of Magicians." - and I'm a Brit, and one who tends to be over-zealous when it comes to using commas, colons and periods. Maybe the author was trying to make it difficult to read in the same way that Shakespear is, but he/she should really have read Penny-Arcade if they wanted the likes of me to rate them over Asimov.

    1. Re:See h2g2 by ickoonite · · Score: 1

      Periods, eh?

      Call yourself a Brit!

      Bloody sellouts.

      iqu :P

    2. Re:See h2g2 by salvorHardin · · Score: 1

      It's just me pretending to be mutli-lingual
      See: Journal.

  55. It's one thing to suggest... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    looking for better English teachers, and quite another thing to know and describe going about doing it. Then there's the whole, "How am I going to afford a better English teacher," problem. The U.S. education system reeks, and not just the subsidized K-12 part. I currently hold an Associates Degree in CIS, and the English teacher spent the entire course teaching the other students quite low-level things.

  56. DUH!! Worldcon is in Scotland this year... by Lanboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fan voting.... DUH!!!

  57. Re:9/11, the cause of every american failure by Mspangler · · Score: 1

    "Not everything is a direct result of what america wants to believe is the worlds worst tragedy."

    You got that right. I am an American, and I think 9/11 was blown, and is being blown way out of proportion. But then I live in the Northwest, so it had no immediate impact. Now when Mt. St. Helens has a burp, that is a different matter entirely. It's very important, but only locally.

    The problem was that 9/11 was aimed right at where the elite live and work, the Eastern Corridor. A good hit on LA, right at Media central would also be effective at generating prolonged hysteria. But any small town in the sticks would rate a few days mention in the paper, then silence. We lose 10 times as many as died on 9/11 every year on the highways without a thought.

    It's all in the presentation. This is not always a good thing, but still true.

  58. Re:DUH!! Worldcon is in Scotland this year... by Lanboy · · Score: 1

    Of course the nominees all rock....

    # The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks (Orbit)
    # Iron Council by China Miéville (Del Rey; Macmillan)
    # Iron Sunrise by Charles Stross (Ace)
    # Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke (Bloomsbury)
    # River of Gods by Ian McDonald (Simon & Schuster)

  59. serious headline complaint by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    Dominate?
    all the writers nominated for the prestigious Hugo award for the best novel are British

    should not that be

    U.K. SF Writers monopolize Hugos
    or for a little humor
    SLASHDOT PREDICTION; All winners of this years hugos will be from the UK-- because all the nominees are.

    Domimate indicates it's not a 100%

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  60. The Media reporting on Patriot was shoddy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Essentially, all the Patriot Act does is codify and remove structural barriers that were in place to beef up anti-terrorist investigations.

    For example, one of the 9/11 hijackers used a Library computer to IM back and forth to Al Qaeda buddies in Waziristan province in Pakistan, as well as check his airline reservations. Knowing the FBI could not access the Library computers. To date the FBI has checked Libraries a grand total of ZERO times.

    Sneak-and-peek warrants already existed, however due to varying Federal Court District rulings there were different rules for each district. Patriot Act codifies those rules (still providing for Judicial review, just one NATIONAL standard).

    Without the Patriot Act, J Edgar Hoover ran a blackmail scheme, on government officals and FOR government officials. One notorious incident involved Bill Moyers (yes, THAT Bill Moyers) then on LBJ's staff, having Hoover look for gays in Barry Goldwater's campaign staff after an LBJ campaign staffer had a George Michael incident in a DC Men's room.

    We do have real terror, and real threats. Arrests of the Lackawanna 6 in Upstate NY, the Virginia Terror Cell, the Lodi Terror cell, the Flordia Jihadis, as well as experience from Madrid and London shows that folks following extremists have to monitored, that means mosques. Everyone rightly cheered when the FBI busted White Power Militia extremists, this is no different and the threat is obviously much greater.

    DHS, FBI, and others can't do "whatever they want." They remain under judicial review just as they always were. J Edgar Hoover suggests the best way to maintain liberty is to put good people in at the top, don't let them sit there forever, and demand accountability.

    To my mind the Patriot Act is far preferable to doing nothing, and then the inevitable detention camps and mass expulsions when the next mass casualty terror attacks happen.

    That you find non-existent "threats" to liberty (media agenda-driven exaggerations, basically tabloid "tight underwear will kill you" reporting), rather than the brutal murder of 3,000 Americans speaks for itself.

  61. Re:9/11, the cause of every american failure by Bishop · · Score: 1

    Not everything is a direct result of what america wants to believe is the worlds worst tragedy.

    A big part of the problem is that Americans cannot escape the images of the terrorist attacks. It is mentioned constantly. It is near impossible to listen, watch, or read any media without some mention of "nine eleven." Never mind the "war on terror" which is some how related to all but the most mundane news.

    American's are living in a culture of fear. It is something foreigners have to experience to understand. It is pervasive. The Americans simply can't tune it out.

  62. locus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Gibson? No PKD? Cryptonomicon classed as SF? Dubious.

    Props to them for recognising Egan, and for organising a "Magazine" award which they regularly lose though.

  63. stupid me by Bishop · · Score: 1

    American's are

    Well that was just sloppy. I blame the poor english I read on /. (It is 2000. One must not accept responsibility for one's actions.)

  64. Elitist Cultural Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you read the comments on Slashdot, they mirror the attitudes of the cultural elite, which has completely failed to comprehend the existential threat to the United States, and remains mired in a tragically hip view of themselves as "cool outsiders." This is why most literature simply fails to reach an audience. Hard to be post-modernly hip and ironic, not standing for anything in a time when real-life supervillains like Zawahari can threaten to kill lots of Americans, and experience dictates it's not an idle threat.

    During the Cold War, the cultural elite played a critical role in yelling "stop" to military adventurism which was dangerous in that it could provoke a confrontation that could spiral out of control into global nuclear war. However, that dynamic ended with the Cold War.

    The Cultural Elite has not adapted to the end of the Cold War. The reason Bill Clinton cut and ran on you, and btw encouraged 9/11 (bin Laden says he knew America could be beat when only 18 dead make them run away), was his Cold War view of military force "never solving anything." Well, it sure solved the Aztec problem. As well as the Japanese militarists.

    Multi-culti PC crapola blinds the Elite to the reality that tribalists with primitive, superstitious views believe that "killing enough Americans" will magically make the Great Satan collapse and usher in a world-wide Caliphate (with them at the top, natch). Magical thinking has a long history of non-Western losers confronting the power of the West and Modernity. Sioux Ghost Dancers, Zulu Warriors, Aztecs, Incas, Japanese Kamikazes all fell before the West, sometimes at great cost (Okinawa killed 22,000 men, sunk 30 ships, damaged more than 300, killed 5,000 sailors). To the elite every war is Vietnam (just look at the laughable "Over There"). The US is always the bad guy, and the villains are not villains.

    The Elite tends to buy Fukuyama, that we are at the "end of History" with no more ideological conflict and that human nature somehow changed magically to make armed conflict a thing of the past. Unlike WWII, the Elite does not like the values of the Country, particularly that of the average guy and the middle class. The Elite wants to be "special" and has a terrifying fear they might be ordinary. Everyone from Alan Ball to Joss Whedon has the literal conception of hell to be middle class suburbia. With the preferred way of life to be cool twentysomethings embracing causeless and cynical nihilism.

    Fundamentally, 9/11 in the broad reaches of the country caused a re-appraisal and embrace of the Tolkein-esque "homely virtues" of friends, family, loyalty, sacrifice, and patriotism. No more free passes are given to those who embrace superstitious, primitive, theocratic ideologies out of moral relativism and PC Multi-culti and there is a large desire to see the enemy profoundly defeated as in WWII. We tend to know who we are more, and have very little tolerance for the sort of rhetoric found on Slashdot (Amerikka, terrorists are justified, let's not make them angry, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, etc). A huge disconnect between the vast majority of the nation and the cultural elite (pandering to itself and the Slashdot-like critics) has brought creativity to a dead halt.

    This is due at least in part to the central lesson of 9/11. Some idiot superstitious and primitive jihadi can kill you at your desk, with no warning. Hard to be post-modern ironic and stand for nothing with that reality.

    Lest anyone think I'm too hard on Slashdot readers, the central reality is that most of America is married, suburban homeowners with kids, mortgages, and ordinary lives with ordinary jobs. No one feels they are very cool or special. This just isn't Slashdot (which yes has it's good points).

    America is neither Athens, nor Sparta, nor Thebes. It is not Phillip's Macedon either. It is now an angry and aroused Andrew Jackson like nation, which would have preferred to be let alone but has a terrifying response when the next bin Laden shoe dr

    1. Re:Elitist Cultural Failure by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Interesting
      If you read the comments on Slashdot, they mirror the attitudes of the cultural elite, which has completely failed to comprehend the existential threat to the United States, and remains mired in a tragically hip view of themselves as "cool outsiders."

      I'm surprised that you posted this as an AC. You obviously have thought this through quite a bit. Personally I don't agree with your broad characterization of Slashdot as a vehicle for the "cultural elites" (for one thing, a much larger than average chunk of the Slashdot population are died in the wool libertarians), but if you want to change the Slashdot dynamic, why not post under a member name?

      You make a solid point about the failure of cultural elites to adapt to the end of the Cold War, but I think you take it a bit far. Clinton cut and ran in Somalia, but he also pushed NATO into action in Serbia and assisted Croatia in booting the Serbs from Krajina. The Fukuyama "end of history" argument lost credence as soon as the first aircraft hit the tower, and nobody in the mainstream American Left would argue that the 9/11 attacks didn't profoundly alter our reality as a nation.

      I also agree with your statement about the stupidity of being post-modern and ironic in a world where there is a very real conflict of worldviews. Hell, anyone who joins the volunteer military understands that being tragically cool is a farce, and I support America's soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines for putting themselves on the line for a belief in their country.

      But one of the persistent threads I've encountered in discussion after discussion is that supporters of the Bush approach to fighting terrorists can't seem to separate the desire and intention to fight terrorists from the techniques used to do so. The failure of cultural elites to recognize that war is sometimes necessary is matched by the failure of many of their detractors to see that just because war is necessary doesn't mean that it has to be fought in the particular manner our President has selected.

      It is no secret that the top military brass were very reticent about going into Iraq, in part because they'd spent the entire decade of the 1990s policing the world. The Bosnia mission, still one of the American military's most underappreciated successes, had been ongoing since 1995. We had the lessons of the Somalia and Haiti missions behind us. Many of the generals had been on the ground as junior officers in Vietnam. These guys knew their jobs inside and out and were part of the most professional and experienced "peacetime" military we'd ever fielded. But when Gen. Shinseki told Congress we'd need several hundred thousand troops to secure Iraq, Rumsfeld at best ignored him, and at worst hastened his departure.

      Beyond the notion of whether there was any meaningful linkage between Saddam and al Quaeda, the difficult issues of how to handle the reconstruction, security, and political reconstitution of Iraq didn't spring up unforseen after the invasion began. Most of them had been planned for by the Pentagon, by experienced NGOs, and by other well-informed and nonpartisan entitites. That the White House chose to ignore that wealth of expertise to me betrays something beyond "knowing yourself," something that strays into a very dangerous hubris.

      The culture war analysis only takes you so far. Cultural elites may not understand Middle America, but that still doesn't really have anything to do with the essential recklessness and lack of sophistication displayed by the Administration in its post-9/11 response.

      For example, President Bush referred to the 9/11 attacks as a new Pearl Harbor attack, when it patently was not even remotely like Pearl Harbor. The Japanese attack on Pearl was a purely military move designed to wipe out the US Pacific Fleet, while the 9/11 attacks were symbolic attacks designed to cripple us economically, cause panic, and serve as a propaganda tool for the cause of militant Islam.

      We have done very little under the Bush Administration to t

      --
      Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    2. Re:Elitist Cultural Failure by demachina · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "We have done very little under the Bush Administration to truly put a lid on nuclear proliferation, and many have even exacerbated it by stepping up development of bunker-buster nukes."

      The Bush administration has almost certainly dramatically accelerated proliferation. They've adopted an obvious bifurcated policy in dealing with nations depending on whether they have nukes, or at least they say they have them, or they don't.

      North Korea says they have nukes so the Bush administration negotiates with them, and treats them with a hands off policy focused on diplomatic efforts and not much saber rattling.

      Iraq has no nukes, though the neocons say they are trying to get them and they get whacked.

      Iran has no nukes, though the neocons say they are trying to get them, and the implication is they may well be in line to get whacked one way or another, air strikes on their reactor before it goes online, fomenting revolution thanks to the CIA, or outright invasion if they can gin up a case and get out of the quagmire in Iraq.

      Libya has something of a contrived nuclear program, give it up and are showered with benefits. Leads you to think you should start a sham program, just to give it up to see what you can get for it in concessions from the U.S. and U.K.

      There is an obvious pattern here a 5 year old can see. If you are on the wrong side of the U.S. the best policy you can pursue is to acquire nukes or at least say you acquired them and fake a good case to support it. If you do you're safe from American aggression. If you don't have nukes and you get on the wrong side of the U.S. chances are you get whacked. Therefor every enemy the U.S. has, has been incentivized to get nukes.

      --
      @de_machina
  65. I'll take the nebula winners over the hugos by jedijacket · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Nebulas are voted on by writers, Hugos by fans. No offense to my fellow fans, but I think some Hugo winners win more because of the popularity of the book or author than the writing and concepts presented. It seems to me that some writers win Hugos after they get some name recognition for earlier works, which are sometimes better than works they later won for.

    A couple of years ago I started trying to read all the Hugo winning novels, got half way (including some I previously read.) Since I realized what I wrote above, I've picked up the Nebula list and because of some overlap I'm about halfway through that list. (I'm not going in any particular order.)

  66. Get *OVER* 9/11, people. by torpor · · Score: 1

    Honest. It ain't no big thing.

    Not flaming. Just wishing the modern world were as tough as it thinks it is ..

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  67. Very scary nuke situation by Infonaut · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There is an obvious pattern here a 5 year old can see. If you are on the wrong side of the U.S. the best policy you can pursue is to acquire nukes or at least say you acquired them and fake a good case to support it. If you do you're safe from American aggression. If you don't have nukes and you get on the wrong side of the U.S. chances are you get whacked. Therefor every enemy the U.S. has, has been incentivized to get nukes.

    The most disturbing part of all this is not just that nation-states are getting nukes. The ability of rogue actors like bin Laden, et. al. to acquire them is very real. Pakistan, for example, is a known nuclear technology exporter. We all know how tight their borders and civilian control of the military are.

    The fact that the Bush Administration just tacitly approved India's nuclear status, and already does so with Pakistan, doesn't make matters any easier. We have essentially opened the floodgates to nuclear arms development by letting the loopholes in the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty remain open. We oppose the Comprensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty and we've violated the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.

    Maybe someone ought to dust off the phrase, "No material. No bomb. No nuclear terrorism."

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  68. Tired of lack of Standardisation in English by felixdzerzhinsky · · Score: 0

    As an Australian I am getting tired of this lack of standardisation in the English language. So I propose that a proprietary language be developed. Microsoft can develop the language and we can all buy a copy. Inevitably some irresponsible person who hasn't bothered to use their antivirus will become infected and the English language will crash. Then we will all speak French! Or Finnish perhaps!

    --
    "Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains..."
  69. Loser Mentality by N8F8 · · Score: 1

    In life, wherever you have to do somthing really difficult there is always someone in the group with the loser "but it's too hard" mentality. Sometimes it takes more than a few days to get something done. If you think this world situation sucks just wait till the future as the technology to commit widespread chaos becomes more and more accessible and the ability to more to another place in the world becomes easier and easier.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  70. The British Are Coming to destroy Caprica... by Dogtanian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are too many British actors on Battlestar Galactica.

    Well, that's probably because there are a lot of bad guys in Battlestar Galactica...

    Actually, I'm not sure that was intended to be 'funny'. (Spoiler follows for those who haven't seen the first hour of the new Battlestar Galactica mini-series); I noticed that they had an English guy play the unheroic self-preserving computer geek who inadvertantly lets the Cylons into the defence computer.

    Yep, there's always a 'British' actor with the required accent (whether they're a good actor or not takes second place to the accent) willing to take the part of the bad guy. They did it in Firefly too, though I found myself warming to the character forced to be the English/British (*) baddie in the middle of a strange western-in-space mythologisation of America's past.

    Truth be told, I watch just over an hour of Battlestar Galactica, then didn't bother with the rest. Well-made or not, I wasn't interested in seeing a very militaristic reflection of America's paranoia on terrorism (and make no bones about it, Battlestar Galactica is very much the Earth-representing-America school of sci-fi); I'm not American, and I don't have a repressed desire to indulge my military side.

    It wasn't especially badly made, and it looked like they were taking things more seriously than the original series... but in truth, I wasn't interested in watching it.

    Simple fact is, most sci-fi on TV in Britain is American, about America and designed to American tastes. Of course, that's the largest target audience, and I'm sure the American producers are interested in reflecting their own society; that's understandable. However, it's also understandable that most TV sci-fi doesn't appeal to me for the same reason (oh yeah, that and the fact it's cliched and cheesey).

    As for Dr. Who... I know you were joking, but the new Dr. Who really won't appeal to your average American viewer. They tried it with the 1996 TV-movie, diluted the concept and it still didn't get the viewing figures needed. In short, if you could make a 'Doctor Who' that mainstream America would watch, it wouldn't be Doctor Who.

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    1. Re:The British Are Coming to destroy Caprica... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I was a Tom Baker fan of Dr. Who when they were running that on PBS in the U.S. I could never really catch on to any of the new doctors after Tom Baker, except for the assistants were who younger and cuter girls.

  71. Re:DUH!! Worldcon is in Scotland this year... by ppanon · · Score: 1

    He's got a point though. Local-support voting has happened before, if not to the same extent - there are only so many Canadian SF writers writing books. It's unfortunate that some years have a wealth of good nomineees and others don't. For instance, Donald Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis was also far superior to Sawyer's Hominids but, being published in December 2001, it didn't even get a nomination because of the heavyweight competition for that year.

    Still, I think Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis is one of the great underestimated books of the last few years, perhaps as a side effect of the disappointment with the hyped-up second Foundation trilogy from the killer Bs a few years earlier. Similarly, Vernor Vinge's book Marooned in Realtime was much better than his later Hugo-winning (and quite good) A Fire upon the Deep but also didn't get properly recognized for its visionary insight until much later. I think that there are some indications that PhC may prove equally prophetic. I also find it highly ironic that Kingsbury's first novel, Courtship Rite, lost out to Isaac Asimov's Foundation's Edge in 1983. Hopefully, Kingsbury will find time to write a few more good novels so that he can get the recognition he deserves.

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    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  72. dog-eat-dog forever is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much modern SF can't seem to escape ever worsening projections of dog-eat-dog capitalism infinitely into the future. U.S. culture is totally dominated by this ideology, and it is seriously constricting the imagination of SF writers. Cyberbunk seems particularly wrapped up with this idea. Another world is possible, but you won't see American SF writers imagining it.

    When you can't imagine alternative social, economic, or political systems, you've ruled out a great many creative possibilities. LeGuin seems almost the only SF author not living at the capitalist pole.

  73. Re:Funny, I base my comma placement on natural pau by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    The correct use for commas in modern English is in seperating list elements

    Are you sure you're talking about English as opposed to LISP?

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  74. council house? by spineboy · · Score: 1

    Ihad to look that up - Council house is a term for public housing provided for/paid for by the state/government, correvt?

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    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:council house? by mink · · Score: 1

      So they are living in what we would call "the projects"?

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