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Modern Humans, Neanderthals Shared Earth for 1,000 Years
joffley writes "ABC News is reporting on new evidence that has emerged suggesting Neanderthals co-existed with anatomically modern humans for at least 1,000 years in central France, before gradually disappearing about 28,000 to 30,000 years ago. But why did they disappear?"
slider technology and left the planet. Unfortunatly they lost the coordinates for there home earth dimension. Also unfortunate that they became NAZI's.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm CERTAIN that I have seen a Far Side comic that dealt with this exact situation.
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
Because the Flying Spaghetti Monster decided so.
They couldn't find any acting jobs until recently.
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
they are still here...
huh?
Mebbe they weren't cross fertile (produced mules) and neanderthals had such a strong exogamy component, they died out trying too hard.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
the question should be " did they dissapear?"
i erskieranclancy.jpg/
and the answer is no http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/images/people/pieterdevill
serenity now!
Well, everyone took a vote, and they got voted off the island.
nothing.can.stop.me.now
I think it's fairly easy to know where they went. Because they were "different" than modern humans, with lower technology levels, we simply killed them off for trying to take our resources. It's a no-brainer, because it's what we do as humans. We try to related but we destroy people who are not like us. Look at it as an early form of racism, and it's pretty straight forward. I'm not saying it's good, but at the time, we were equally as primative. We are still as primative, generally.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
They invented computers. about 100 years later, they were all nerds hiding in caves bootlegging MP3s and stealing wireless connections. Ahhh, the future of us.
Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
I kid, I kid.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
A period of a thousand years is long enough for the Cro-Magnon, with their superior abilities and traits, to become more numerous than the Neanderthals. At that point the Neanderthals were either killed off or crossbred with the Cro-Magnon. Over time, most of the Neanderthal genes in the offspring probably faded.
maybe the neanderthalls evolved, and modern humans were created by intelligent design?
by intellegent design, I of course mean Flying spahgetti monster.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They didn't disappear, they moved into management roles.
From TFA: In short, the indicators point to the likelihood that Homo sapiens crushed or ousted the Neanderthals in the fight to survive. Why do we always need to reduce the possibilities to just these two? Isn't it equally likely that in the ebb and flow of occupation of the area humans eventually exhausted the resources that the Neanderthal relied upon, while being able to exploit other resources that the Neanderthal couldn't? Since 1,000 years is the overlap epoch it doesn't appear that a policy of active antipathy is at work.
I have nothing to hide. So, why are you spying on me?
It's not implied in the article...but I've got a nagging suspicion we just slaughtered them for fun and sport.
The Discovery channel ran a special recently about evolution and it offered similar information. Considering how long it takes to produce such a show, one would think this would have already made it's rounds around the internet.
As far as the question of why they are extinct, the show stated it as a matter of fact that homo sapiens simply over-ran their niche, as is prone to happen when two competing species inhabit the same environment.
I dunno if the show was pushing it's speculation as fact or if this source is out of date. It seems to make sense though. Smarter, team-working homo sapiens out-hunt the competition and the others starve.
Help a student gain some exp. http://www.halovariants.com/touchup/index.php
I'm sure many of us at Slashdot remember getting beating up by guys on the football team that resembled Neanderthals.
I think it's fairly easy to know where they went. Because they were "different" than modern humans, with lower technology levels, we simply killed them off for trying to take our resources.
We wouldn't have needed to actually kill them. Both Neanderthals and humans would have competed for the same food; because of our higher intelligence, we would have gotten it and they wouldn't have as a result. Neanderthals probably died because of us, true, but we needn't have directly killed them.
...but from some that seem to have been encouraged.
That's very interesting, can you please point me to a link that describes the scientific evidence which brought about the hypothesis that some of the mutations seem to have been encouraged? I would be very interested in reading that.
/.: why the hell am I here?
This guy's publications list pretty much ends in 1997. http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/~pam/publications.html Where is this work published? If it can't stand up to peer review, why is ABC reporting on it?
I'd like to see his methods, and find out how exactly they dated samples, and if they did a check on sample prep in order to verify their results. Until that can be shown, why should we believe the report?
Can't we just go one day without a creation v. evolution thread?!
Are we supposed to not discuss certain topics because some people refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence when it conflicts with their presupposed biases?
I don't think so. This isn't evolution vs creationism. This is a science story. And that ignorant people prefer ignorance isn't reason to push science underground.
There are two central issues. One is that the "Aurignacian" industry, which is proposed to have been made by modern humans, may not actually have been a single industry across Europe. In the current study, the "interleaving" of the two kinds of tools is documented by around 10 artifacts, out of 750 total.
The other issue is that no fossil remains of modern humans have yet been found associated with early "Aurignacian" tools. We simply don't know who made them. Since they are not technically very different from the Neandertal-associated Chatelperronian, it is hard to say that there is a real cognitive difference represented by those tools, whoever made them.
I have some pictures of the tools on my weblog post (John Hawks Anthropology Weblog), and conclude this:
--John
There is actually good reason to believe that homo neandertalis is still very alive in some parts of the world. Isolated regions of the planet often have some groups of people who are unable to interbreed with other groups that have been active members in the gene pool. Although homo neandertalis would probably have evolved just as much as our own homo sapiens since the time of the neanderthal skeleton, they could easily still be living. It is also possible that homo erectus could be alive, but this is less likely because of their smaller brains. Homo neandertal is able to compete with, though not dominate, homo sapiens because we have similar cranial mass, but homo erectus just didn't have enough brains to cut it.
Based on that picture, I'd have to say that the Neanderthals died out because the Cro-Magnon women were way better looking.
Nerd Rock In Progress
I just watched Farscape: The Peacekeeper Wars movie last night and I learned that the Eidelons took humans from earth 27,000 years ago and they eventually became the Peacekeepers. That's when they stopped sharing earth.
One of many made extinct by the Cherokee's. The Shawnee's another tribe infamous for its mass killings/extinctions of rival tribes.
The way of the world.
The reason this results in extinction of one of the races is due to the fact that when there is consistent gender bias in inter-racial mating, if there is any degree of polygyny or serial monogamy (de facto polygyny) then the gene flow tends to be from the race whose males are successfully mating to the population whose males are not as successfully mating. If there is any substantial inter-racial mating under such circumstances it could easily be that a millenium or so is all it would take to destroy the existence of the race whose males are experiencing lower fertility.
The question is what was the trigger that resulted in the presence of modern humans midst neanderthals?
Seastead this.
It is interesting to see proof of overlap in a single area, though this isn't surprising. Also, currently mitocondrial data indicates that there isn't a major influx of DNA from them, though some interbreeding could have occurred and survived to today, especially if it conferred a survival advantage in northern climes, for example.
Lewis Binford, many years back, investigated another site (in Israel) where h. sapiens and h. neanderthalis existed in close proximity for MUCH longer, around 90,000 years IIRC. The same results otherwise, despite an incredibly long time period very close to each other, no genetic drift towards each other to be seen. Pretty much has to mean that they were not sexually compatible with each other.
Everyone assumes that OUR ancestors had the 'superior abilities and traits' but, other than the fact that we're here instead of them, there's no reason to think that. They were definately stronger, more muscular and with a more efficient musculature as well - if they were still alive today they would take all the top spots in just about any sport you can think of. The 'hunchback' stereotype is incorrect - one of the early neanderthal skeletons had those features and that was taken as typical, but it turns out it was just that that particular individual had massive crippling arthritic problems - it wasn't genetic. And despite the stereotype that they were dumb, there's really no evidence of that either - their brains were even larger than ours, and their artifacts are not inferior.
One difference is that there is a bone in the throat, (hyoid bone iirc) critical to the production of human speech, which was shaped differently in the neanderthal. They would not have been capable of making many of the sounds we use in speech as a result. However, that doesn't mean they couldn't have spoken their own languages, with different sounds - only that they would not have been able to make many of the sounds we use.
Still a great mystery. Maybe one day we'll know what happened.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
You can't really make the argument against ID plainer than this. I highly recommend everyone to read it, whatever you believe:
Guardian article
My german is pretty poor, but it was simple to pick up the basic story line:
The show followed a family of Neandrathals as they attempted to cross the Alps.
A young female wandered off from the family. Nearby, three "modern" human males had a camp and were cooking meat over a fire. The female picked up the scent of the meat and followed it to the camp.
The males lured her into the camp with the offer of food. She warily accepted and while she was eating, one of the males knocked her down to her hands and knees and took her from behind (much to her distress). The other males then took their turns.
The last shot was of the female wandering up into the snow-covered mountains, obviously pregnant.
Again, my german is not very good, but the impression I got was the show was attempting to explain how a neandrathal female corpse, preserved by altitude and cold, was found in the Alps with an unborn child that contained "modern" human DNA. . .
Got to love those European documentaries - they leave little to the imagination.
What?
Unfortunately, the Intelligent Designer Program (IDP) will be patched to prevent the weaker from dying off and to kill off the stronger. I imagine this will be part of patch #9756483 to IDP 1.0 which will be downloaded via AutoUpdate on a Tuesday soon (since it is a critical fix). Then the evolutionists will be wrong (the strongest didn't survive) and the IDers will cover their tracks. Wait... my brain hurts - maybe the download is happening early... NO, NO... IT'S NOT OKAY TO INST.........
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Amazing, only in America would people teach in Public School that Earth was created by the Magrathean planetary construction engineer Slartibartfast. Douglas Adams would be proud!
Oh well, what the hell...
Some time ago I saw a TV program on this subject. The investigators claimed to have found objects which they associated with Cro-Magnon people, objects with strange marks on them; marks which appeared to be a crude lunar calendar. If true, Cro-Magnon folks were much more intelligent than their Neanderthal neighbors -- able to forecast dark (or light) nights, able to record information and able to engage in non-verbal communication. And outsmart their enemies as well as become more efficient hunters and providers.
Touché.
I'm not a Troll, it's reverse psychology.
Whether the child was a hybrid is subject to debate. Given that the judgement is not settled and there's only one such skeleton, it would seem a bit rash to claim it to be a cold hard fact.
The 'cro-magnons' were taller, relatively weak, and good walkers but...not real bright. the Neandertals were much brighter but short, stocky, and not as good in the walking and throwing department. Then mix a Neandertal with a cute cro-magnon babe and...voila...'modern man' with his big brain and superb two-legged walking and baseball throwing ability. We are all descendants of those few hybridized offspring 38,000 years ago who then quickly multiplied and killed off the ancestral forms, of course.
I guess the Cromagnons could not find the Neanderthals sexually attractive - what was the turn off?
I've seen lots of chimps, orangs, and gorillas in zoos. Some I like the look of, be it dignified or humerous but I have never found any of them remotely sexually attractive nor have I found any that I would call gorgeous.
Which is strange because I have seen horses and dogs that I would call gorgeous. And this type of prettyness is tied in with some inate system of sexual attraction - not that I am sexually attracted to dogs or horses but that somehow a great horse ass can remind one of human females' asses.
I've known women from many of the so-called races and sub-races of the humans that I consider gorgeous and think such can be found everywhere.
However I find birth defects such as midgets or Down's Syndrome as anti-attractive.
So my hypothesis is that modern humans did not want to interbreed with Neanderthals or great apes because they looked like they had birth defects, and somehow this notion of 'not true to form' is inately tied to our notion of attractiveness.
Though I still don't know what the big Neanderthal turnoff is.
This has been dealt with to death, Scientific American has run dozens of articles on it. There are any number of simulations that show exactly what happened to the Neanderthals (check out these StarLogo examples http://www.scottcamazine.com/personal/selforganiza tion/starlogo/starlogo.htm/ ), all that has to happen is that reproduction has to drop below replacement for a long enough period of time. Europe is very mountainous, they are "Cave Men" after all, and if populations in different valleys don't mix because some of those funky new people are in a valley between you, and extinction occurs, without any contact at all. We can out compete them without ever meeting them.
My sister told me she's dated a few...
The conquest of the Americas nearly cause a similar event with the Native Americans. Disease, domination, and marginalization of territory nearly wipe out the Amerindians. My guess it was simlar set circumstances that did in the Neanderthals. First, Humans and Neanderthals are related closely just as a horse an a donkey are. So, diseases that human had long evolved to resist Moreover, these are the humans whose descendants will be the most notorious conquerors in human history. Live and let live and share and share alike were probably not well practice back then either. Humans with superior numbers and technology wipe out whole tribes. Then, the final blow was neanderthals, due to war, probably limited themselves to smaller stretches of territory in less hospitable regions where they finally went extinct. Native Americans were lucky in that they could interbreed with the conqueror; however, since human and neanderthals are different species, any interbreeding may have lead to sterile offspring if that.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Innan and Nordborg
Seastead this.
For those not familiar with it: The Invisible Pink Unicorns are a counter-argument to a common straw-man attack on atheism.
The attack is "You can't know whether there is a god, so to disbelieve is every bit as much an act of faith as to believe."
The counter goes as following.
Atheist (A): "Do you believe there are herds of invisble pink unicorns somewhere unnoticed on the planet?"
Believer (B): "No, of course not."
A: "So this would be an absolute religious conviction, would it?"
B: "Well, no, not really"
A: "Right. I don't believe in god in the same way you don't believe in invisible pink unicorns."
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
The story of the Garden of Eden (as told by a New Yorker):
God: "Hmm... Kinda bored; Greenwich Village won't exist for 6,000 years... Maybe I'll make some people, see what they get up to."
POOF!
God: "Hey, YOU! Nature-boy! Your name is Adam. See all these animals over here? They're for you. Have fun, but, um..." (thinks for a second) "I know! Ok, see those two trees over there? The ones with the juicy apples and so on? Those are the trees of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and of Life. Yeah... So... You don't need any of that stuff, so don't eat them. Everything else is fair game, though."
God (to Gabriel): "Hey, what odds will you give me that he'll pick the tree of knowledge?"
Gabriel: "My Lord, I believe he will pick the tree of Life. Knowledge is overrated, it sayeth this on Slashdot."
God: "Gimme fifty bucks on Knowledge."
(They wait a week. Nothing happens.)
God: "What IS it with this guy? All he does is pet that damn cat."
Gabriel: "Perhaps he needs someone to egg him on."
God: "Hmm... Hey! Let's get him laid!"
POOF!
God (to Adam): "Hey, Nature-boy! I made you a babe. Check her out: 36-26-36! Be fruitful and multiply! But don't eat from those two trees!"
Adam: "W00T!"
Eve: "Don't get any ideas, buster..."
(Another week goes by).
God (to Gabriel): "They're STILL not eating the damn fruit. What the hell is WRONG with these people? They're beautiful apples, huge and red, how can they MISS them???"
Gabriel: "My lord, they've been fornicating day and night. Perhaps you shouldn't have created them as adults..."
God: "Yeah, yeah... We've got to speed this process up. Fetch me that consultant."
Consultant: "Yessssssss, my Loooooorrdd?" (flicks tongue, hisses).
God: "Ok, I need you to trick that dame down there into eating some apples from that tree over there. Normal consulting rates apply, be mindful of the do not exceed rate, keep an eye on expenses or I'll really do a number on you."
And the rest, as they say... Is history!
(Epilogue):
God: "Ha! Fork 'em over, Gabe, that's two to one, too!"
Gabriel: "Man, what a disappointment. I was sure she was going to go for the Tree of Life for a minute there."
God: "Ha! By me, I knew that kid wouldn't disappoint me! Hey! I have an idea! Gimme some odds on that Kain vs. Abel bout we've got coming up... I'm feeling lucky..."
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
The Scientific American reviewer commented that the author of COTCB had done a reasonable amount of homework. She got details about the technology right. But that her heroine was like a Californai "vallery girl" transplanted to the paleolithic.
Various contributors to this thread have said "We killed them. We were smarter than they were. That's life." But there is no evidence that we were more intelligent. Some anthropologists have suggested that one advantage modern humans had over Neanderthals was that the shape of our throat and larynx allows modern humans to make sounds that Neanderthals couldn't -- and that this allowed a richer, more expressive, vocal expression.
Ontological argument...that which is greater than the greatest thing of which I can conceive....bleh. That is a tired crutch.
If you believe in God, believe in God. If you need proof of God's existence to believe in God, don't believe in God. I happen to believe that God would be quite annoyed with us if we wasted our phenomenally powerful synthetic reasoning skills on trying to prove His existence rather than, say, curing cancer or draining New Orleans.
I believe it is NOT rational to state A) God exists and B) Christianity is the one true religion, because you can't make that argument without begging the question. Note: I do not dispute your (or my) faith in God on this basis.
Dressing up religion in the clothing of science is silly. Dressing up science in the clothing of religion is equally silly. Thinking that one can explain one with the other is silly.
The Bible is not a book about how the Heavens go...it is a book about how to go to Heaven. (That's Galileo. He was very not popular with the religious figures of his day.)
I don't believe that you can use reason to demonstrate the existence of God. Nor do I think it is necessary to do so.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Nah they moved to the UK and started following soccer teams. Watch the World Cup next year and you'll see them engaging in the great British tradition of going somewhere foreign and trashing it, which will be especially popular with British Neanderthals since it's in Germany.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
From God's Roadmap:
Beta
Release version: Homo neanderthalensis
Build name: Adam
Release date: 4,569,770,000 years after cooling
Deprecated: 4,569,971,000 years after cooling
Stable
Release version: Homo sapiens
Build name: Eve
Release date: 4,569,800,000 years after cooling
Deprecated:
[Sigh] Still deciding. I mean, the codebase is starting to look a bit creaky in a few places, and they're starting to tinker with it themselves (they think it's open source - hah!). Inquisitive little so-and-so's can't leave well enough alone... They've noticed the legacy code from the previous build too - ick, some cruft in there. Very tempting to trash the lot and start again using AOP. Mind you I mightn't have to lift a finger if they don't stop blowing each other to smithereens.
[sigh] TODO: Take oort cloud inventory - look for something nice and big...
The fact of the matter is that Homo sapiens have been around for 200 THOUSAND YEARS!! Neanderthals were the dominant species for most of that time, until they died off approximated 30-35k ago ... it's not such a big leap to suggest that coexistence goes back to far earlier times, but the big deal about these caves is that the neanderthals were competing for the same resources as Homo sapiens, and were outhunted (the BIG mystery the article claims is unknown...you gotta love media) to extinction. Neanderthals used flake technology, while Homo sapiens used blade tech. Without going too heavily into it, Homo sapiens were killing up a storm with thrown spears and using prismatic cores and all that high tech jazz. Neanderthals still had to close in for the kill, and as such could not compete at all.
The important thing to understand is that there were two variants of hominids during the middle and upper paleolithic periods (assuming we disregard the Homo erectus groups off in Asia that were still hanging in there), rather than one being descended from the other. Neanderthals were adapted for the Ice Age, and were limited to Europe because of this. The highly adaptable (yet peabrained) little Homo sapiens spread like wildfire across the continents, killing as we went. Neanderthals are believed to have been very gentle and possibly even possessors of culture (although this is in constant debate), even taking care of the sick and wounded around them. One skull was even found with a hole beveled into it, suggesting some attempt at early surgical treatment (it was done premortem, and the individual lived for several years after the hole was made).
Whereas we were honed to kill.
Disclaimer: It's highly improbable that Homo neanderthalensis and homo sapiens mingled, or that the Homo sapiens killed off the neanderthals. But until we can send a time machine back to record all this shit, nobody can be 100% certain.
Oh and A.C., I'm not making any corrections to what you've said, just trying to expand on it a bit. Seemed like as good a place as any. :) I agree about the communication, and how large Neanderthal brains were.
I'm sick of people touting Intelligent Design when they don't even understand Evolution.
Evolution is NOT about "random mutations". There is nothing at all RANDOM about evolution. Sure, there are random mutations going on all the time, but that's not what evolution is about. Evolution is about NATURAL SELECTION which is definitely NOT a random process.
There is a very specific rule that is applied to the "random mutations" to see which ones move forward and that is (more or less) this: Those mutations that tend to make a creature at least slightly more successful will tend to spread throughout a population. And "successful" means (essentially) living long enough to reproduce and raise young.
This is NOT random at all. Most (nearly all) mutations are either BAD and cause damage, or effectively do nothing. Only a few rare mutations actually pass the natural selection test of being positive and therefore spread through successive generations.
In a given context a mutation is either going to tend to be helpful to the survival of the creature or not. So I say once again Evolution is NOT random.
I could go on and on and explain how natural selection often leads to results that APPEAR to look "planned", even though they were not planned with any intelligent forethought, but that would be a whole book. Instead, read Richard Dawkins "The Blind Watchmaker".
Incorrect. We live in a Republic, which means we have Representatives that make policy. Our form of government was set up specifically to avoid the tyranny of the majority. Are you really unaware of this?
Regarding teaching Creationism/ID, there's nothing to teach except "God/A Mysterious Intelligent Force did it". Whether you are willing to accept it or not, evolution theory is supported by science, therefore it should be taught in science class.
Do you really want to dumb down our country? If we don't teach our children proper scientific methods, we will lose our technological leadership.
Do you really want to weaken America?
/.: why the hell am I here?
REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP
Dear Mr Neanderthal,
First I must solicit your strictest confidence of this transaction. This is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and "Top Secret".
You must be surprised hearing from me in this manner as we have not previously communicated.
Please allow me to introduce myself. I am HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS, descendant and heir of the late HOMO HEIDELBERGENSIS of AFRICA.
Before he passed away my late ancestor secreted one hundred thousand (ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND) african elephants in the plains of Africa and I seek your assistance to export these animals to Europe where the growing shortage of the similar "Woolly mamoths" would make them highly marketable.
While the seas and deserts seperating Africa from Europe are easily overcome, African Animals are unable to tolerate cold and I will need a number of large fur coats to protect them for the journey.
In return for the suply of these furs and acting as my agent for the sale I would be delighted to offer you a full 50% of the realised market value.
Yours Faithfully
Homo Sapiens Sapiens,
Lagos,
Africa
The Neanderthals couldn't order in French so they simply starved to death.
they caught avian bird flu........ coming to a chicken near you this winter
Are you somehow unaware of the over riding laws of real men ?
1) Every hole's a goal.
2) You don't look at the mantlepiece when you're stoking the fire.
Holy crap, one different gene?! They must be a different species! Why are you trusting what your crackpot history teacher has to say about genetics?
The neandrathal female in the program WAS very ugly.
But boys will be boys, won't they?
;D
What?
(The exceptions, if any, would have some Viking blood.)
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
"A good proof for the christian anti-darwinists that it is not always the fittest that survive..."
Actually you misunderstand the meaningof that term. The word fittest is termed as something that is "the best at surviving.", not necessarily the best at something like strength, eating, building, etc. So in the real world those species that are best at learning, or adapting to their environment (read as: able to survive in their environment), are those that evolve and thus "survive".
So the fittest always do servive, because they are the best at surviving.
--
Does anyone remember
Following science to the exclusion of anything else is also a religion.
This not true. Unfortunately, statements like this all to often remain unchallenged. The false assumption behind it is that every approach to the mysteries of the world we are living in qualifies as a religion. Science is different, however.
As opposed to religion, science is based on evidence. It is about making informed choices. These are not necessarily the right choices (in hindsight). But they are the only ones you can come up with without simply relying on tradition, authority or 'revelation'. Usually, adopting the scientific method is an informed choice in itself.
How much different are religions! The vast majority of religious people did not pick their specific religion based on an informed choice. Most just believe what their parents believe or what was planted in their minds by other authorities when they were children.
Like the GP I'll also take science any day of the week. Not because I am converted but because I am convinced.
617B3B7F7E7C7D7F00EOF
I'm sick of people touting Intelligent Design when they don't even understand Evolution.
Most people touting Intelligent Design do it because they don't understand Evolution, or they do it to dishonestly promote their religious beliefs, hiding them under pseudoscience.
You can't take the sky from me...
Let's see, how exactly do we come up with a coherent world view in which a) DNA, genes, chromosomes and so on are the means of inheritance; and b) the first woman was created using a rib torn from the side of the first man? The best you can do is propose a "God set things in motion" model, in my view anyway, and then you've got all sorts of problems keeping that afloat if you've ever even seen meiosis or mitosis. (If God "set it in motion" then where exactly along the genetic chain does God intervene to make certain subcellular determinations in line with prophesy and so on? Michael Behe winds up proposing that sort of constant intervention in order to make his watch-watchmaker arguments for things like Cilia.)
At a basic foundational level, almost any science poses extreme challenges to a "literalist" (which of course always means selectively, conveniently literalist in actual practice) reading of the Bible.
In geology, for example, realizing that the world wasn't made exactly the way it is now, that it became this way over time on a scale unimaginable to the people who wrote the Bible, makes the "On the Xth day..." business staggeringly superficial by comparison, just to start with. The actual age of the earth is, in and of itself, a contradiction of any reasonable reading of the Bible's specific claims about human life. (Not that the whole 6,000 year thing is actually in the Bible, mind you, except indirectly.)
But c'mon -- "creationism" isn't about God. It's about the worldly authority of those who claim they speak for God. That's a completely different set of questions. Our Pharisees will tie themselves into intellectual knots to keep their hold on power, and to keep us from asking the obvious questions about their Oh So Divine knowledge... Which contrasted with the rigors of science, seems to come to them awfully, awfully easily, and to back their authority ever so conveniently.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
* Wingman has joined #intelligentdesign
* AlphaHelix has joined #intelligentdesign
* MutatedTaxon has joined #intelligentdesign
<Wingman> hi
<AlphaHelix> hi Wingman
<MutatedTaxon> morning Wingman
<Wingman> finished my project at work today
<Wingman> the boss upstairs asked me to design something that could fly
<AlphaHelix> =O=
<MutatedTaxon> awesome
<Wingman> so I knew it would have to be something small with wings
<Wingman> but I didn't what to do for eyes
<AlphaHelix> hundreds and thousands
<Wingman> tahts what I did, compound eyes
<MutatedTaxon> l33t
<Wingman> 4000 on each side
<MutatedTaxon> w00t
<AlphaHelix> what about a couple of eyes on the back of the head?
<Wingman> thought about that too
<Wingman> got three
<Wingman> good to have a spare
<AlphaHalix> lol
<MutatedTaxon> does it walk?
<Wingman> Its got six legs with feet
<Wingman> so it can jump up and start flying if anything comes too close
<Wingman> and it can even land upside down on a ceiling or roof
<MutatedTaxon> h4x0r sk1llz
<Wingman> and it will eat absolutely anything
<AlphaHelix> no way!!!!
<Wingman> it regurgitates its stomach acid on anything tasty
<Wingman> and sucks it back up
<AlphaHelix> Yuck!
<AlphaHelix> what are you going to call it?
<Wingman> The Fly
<Wingman> cos it flies, gettit?
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Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Who said that atheists don't believe in a spiritual life? You can have spirituality aplenty without a deity or anything supernatural at all. As the old Zen master said - if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!
I personally have plenty of reasons to live (I'm leaving in 10 minutes to go pick one of them up from preschool) without a supernatural invisible friend or a fantasy (nighmarishly dull) afterlife. They're my reasons, not someone else's, and not delusions.
Helium balloons want to be free.