Windows Vista To Come In 7 Flavors

Dionne writes "Microsoft is really milking it with this one: According to an Ars Technica report, there will be 7 versions of Windows Vista: Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition." From the article: "Windows Vista Ultimate Edition is a superset of both Vista Home Premium and Vista Pro Edition, so it includes all of the features of both of those product versions, plus adds Game Performance Tweaker with integrated gaming experiences, a Podcast creation utility (under consideration, may be cut from product), and online "Club" services (exclusive access to music, movies, services and preferred customer care) and other offerings (also under consideration, may be cut from product)."

Comments

Flavours?

[Lifewish]

Chocolate, Vanilla, Pecan, Mint, Banana and BSOD?

Re:Flavours?

[starwed]

Well, we know by symmetry that there should be 8 flavors. Presumably Microsoft hasn't achieved high enough energies to find the eighth, but it's always possible before release, I guess. Getting to the fourth generation is impressive enough, though. ^_^

Re:Flavours?

[GoClick]

Most users will buy neopolitan and then only eat the chocolate out of it tho and complain about how much it cost.

I sure hope they have Office Vista too so that people will be even more confused nothing like 14 products with the same name. The whole naming Office and Windows the same is one great big butt f*ck for IT people.

Atleast once a month someone asks me to reinstall Office XP on their computer, means Windows XP and gives me the wrong CD and then blames me for making things too complicated and saying I knew what they meant.

Look how fractured office comes now? And why can't I just buy Word and Excel and none of the other ass programs? No if you want both of those goodies you have to move on up the ladder.

I sure hope the media goes ape shit over all of the confusions (they won't, they will herald it as the new wonder os)

Good companies have shown us time and time again, too many options confuse people and make them pissed off.

More confusion means more people using other OSes even if it isn't Linux/BSD it's better. So I welcome this new useless mash of chocolate and crap flavours down at the Microsoft campus and I hope they learn their lesson.

Re:Flavours?

[generic-man]

And why can't I just buy Word and Excel and none of the other ass programs?

Microsoft Office Word 2003 (the upgrade version is about half the price)

Microsoft Office Excel 2003 (the upgrade version is about half the price)

If "too many options confuse people and make them pissed off," then Linux is absolutely fucked.

Re:Flavours?

[ilikejam]

Praline, and dick.

Re:Flavours?

[Anonymous Coward]

My God... When will the Slashdot crowd finally stop bashing MS products and Windows in particular? Yes, I completely agree, Win95/98/Me absolutely sucked, we know it by now, get over it already; Win2K/XP are way more stable; I haven't had a BSoD on WinXP for over two years (at least) and I'm using around 5 PC's with WinXP installed. Don't like the OS? Fine, but don't use every chance you get to level it; it's becoming old, tiresome, and annoying. If Linux were such a great alternative, I could definitely understand your rants, but it has quite a lot of flaws itself when put forward as an easy-to-install, easy-to-use desktop OS (you know, the thing people out there are actually interested in). Flamebait? Trolling? Maybe, but so is the zillionth "M$ sucks" post...

Re:Flavours?

[MCZapf]

$194.99 for Word alone? What a ripoff! I guess that's to make us think that Office Standard (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook) at $332.99 is a bargain.

If Word and the Word .doc format were much more elegant and less troublesome to use, I might pay $100 for it.

Re:Flavours?

[ifwm]

"I'm sorry but windows is *not* an "easy-to-install", "easy-to-use" desktop OS. "

Compared to Linux it is.

Re:Flavours?

[ifwm]

"Good companies have shown us time and time again, too many options confuse people and make them pissed off."

Yeah, Baskin Robbins and Campbell's soup really have a hard time.

Oh, wait you are making shit up

Re:Flavours?

[anagama]

"I'm sorry but windows is *not* an "easy-to-install", "easy-to-use" desktop OS."

Compared to Linux it is.

Oh for cryin' out loud -- I seriously don't know how much easier it can get to install linux anymore. Pick a major distro, any distro, pop in cd or dvd, answer a couple questions (i.e., keyboard layout, time zone, use entire disk (or freespace), username, password (type it twice), wait awhile, done). No endless install driver, reboot, install driver, reboot, install driver, reboot, install software, reboot. When linux is done, it's done for 90% of what people want -- surf net, read email, write papers. And adding the extra things just isn't that darn hard (e.g., in ubuntu, fire up synaptic and click little checkboxes and then press "install", similar process with Suse YaST, and I'm sure RH/Fedora is just as easy).

It is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install. The fact is, it's becoming SO darn easy that I fear linux is going to loose it's geek coolness factor -- anyone who can put a CD in a computer has all the skills necessary to install linux right now.

Re:Flavours?

[jrockway]

It all comes down to knowing what you're doing. If you know how to work around Windows' stupidity (Hey, I have a driver right in this folder... just fucking let me select it) then I guess Windows is fine. After you've loaded Anti-Virus that is. And a new web browser. And some anti-spyware software. And a firewall.

Now that 60% of your memory is used up, you can start thinking about which $500 applications you want. A word processor and spreadsheet maybe? $500. Maybe some photo editing software? $700. You get my point. Easy to use out of the box, sure. That's because it can't do anything out of the box... and you've already spent $150 on it!

I personally will stick with Linux which has no box and a new piece of software is just an apt-get away.

Even if you manage to do everything you want to do with free software under Windows, you still have to go out and find it every damn time you re-install. And you have to keep it up to date yourself, there's nothing that automates that. Easy to use indeed.

Re:Flavours?

[fishlet]

"It is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install."

Well I hope I'm not being redundant on someone elses comment here, but the trueness (or falseness) or your statement has everything to do with what you call a complete linux installation.

If you mean getting the linux kernel, a handful of common apps, and the X desktop at a standard resolution installed... then I agree with you 100%.

But, If you mean getting linux installed so that it can interface with my digital camera, connect seamlessly with my palm handheld, read my SD cards without playing games, or play encrypted DVD's without installing extra libraries.... then I'd have to disagree with you. All these things are much easier to get done in Windows.

Re:Flavours?

[CableModemSniper]

Have you ever interacted with real, living people? There are plenty of pro-windows people who don't work for microsoft, and know what they are doing. Yes, they ocassionally bitch about a BSOD, but then I've been known to bitch about X locking up, or having to relaunch the finder. Doesn't mean they don't like Windows. Some people really do. Its not some giant MS conspiracy.

Re:Flavours?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install.

Linux is hard to install on my computers.

Take my first home-built system, please: a 1.8GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM, onboard video, AGP GeForce4, Sound Blaster 5.1, using that wonderfully user-friendly, easy-to-install Ubuntu (4 or 5, same results):

On first boot, it defaults to displaying on the onboard video, giving a blank screen if the monitor is plugged into the GeForce4, even if the onboard video is disabled in the BIOS. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to reconfigure the X server.

On first boot, my nVIDIA card doesn't have the proper drivers installed. It certainly isn't difficult, but it requires a driver install, then a restart of the X server.

On first boot, my wireless card isn't properly detected. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to install and use Windows wireless drivers, and yours happens to be supported (in my case, not yet).

On first boot, my Sound Blaster 5.1 isn't detected as a sound card. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to recompile the kernel.

When installing Windows 2000, yes, I have to install drivers. The process for that: Double click, maybe reboot. You don't have to know a damn thing to do that. It is easier to install Windows 2000 on my computer; Linux is comparatively hard to install.

Note that I'm not saying that this is true for all computers, but it is true for my computer, and it disproves your assertion that it is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install.

I just said it, and it's true for me. Therefore, it's not a lie. If I'm a computer user who has a video card AND onboard video, and I try to install Ubuntu and get a black screen on first boot, yes, Linux is a bitch to install. If I'm a computer user who doesn't know how to recompile a Linux kernel to support specific, unsupported hardware, yes, Linux is a huge bitch to get to work. And if you don't have a wireless card that your distro of Linux natively supports, it can be a bitch to get it to work.

On my Dell? ATI video card drivers are bitchy. On my last homebuilt system? Sound is again a bitch to set up. The only computer I own on which Linux has never been difficult to install is my G3 iMac.

Many of those things aren't Linux's fault - hardware vendors are stupid, I know - but being faultless doesn't make it easier to install on some systems.

Unless you only mean that it's not difficult to get Linux to boot from the hard drive of a computer - and even then, there are problems that, for some, would make it hard to do - then no, for the most part and for many people it's not hard. But to say that "it is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install" just makes those who can't, for legitimate reasons, easily install it feel stupid.

Re:Flavours?

[WhiteWolf666]

No, I've met several of these Fanbois.

Many of them are auxiliary MS employees. This means they work in an MS shop, and have been trained on MS tools. They are blind to anything else, and simply see problems with MS products as 'The Way things Work'.

They ignore problems with MS products, or equate them with Marketshare problems of Linux/Mac. To them, although Windows may have its problems, Linux/Mac must obviously have more serious problems, or the software/hardware selection on those platforms wouldn't be so bad.

To these people, marketshare=success. Few experience true joy in their workplaces, and many do not have a good understanding of the various layers of abstraction in the computing world. They consider themselves power-users, but rarely understand what actually goes on in the system.

These people are usually in the middle bracket of computing knowledge. I find that 'noobs' are easy to convert to Linux or Mac; they don't know how to do it in Windows, so its simply for them to learn the Linux/Mac way. I find that true experts are also easy to convert. Help them solve a last problem or two, or given them a brief introduction, and a few weeks later they'll be showing you things you haven't figured out yourself later.

It's the people in the middle that carry the MS banner.

I just realized this will start the mother of all flamewars, but oh well ;-)

Re:Flavours?

[mikis]

Sure. You will need 5-10 CD's to install Windows. *IF* you are clueless enough, or simply do not know (and do not want to know) anything about computers.

Otherwise, you can put ALL of that on one DVD, and install it with no more than few reboots. All you need is program like UltraISO, and a guide like this. You know, you CAN slipstream SP2, and all the latest patches and drivers into Windows installation. And use simple unattend.txt file to set defaults to most installation options (CD key, keyboard setting, resolution, time zone).

BTW. I hate too HP's 200MB drivers... but do you know why it is that big? Because they include entire Apache Tomcat + Java RE with it!!!

Re:Flavours?

[mikis]

1. Yes, those Linux distributions are free. I don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, those companies charge for distribution to you. But if I had a copy of them, I could distribute it to you for free.

Please someone send me a copy of latest RHEL. If you think that I can buy one copy of RHEL 4 and run it on several servers (even though I don't need Redhat's up2date/RHN services), you should most definately read the license conditions.

2. MS has a monopoly on system preloads. Preloaded system count for 95% of PC marketshare. You cannot buy a pre-built system without paying the MS tax. If any manufacture starts to sell pre-built systems without a Windows license, their OEM Windows price goes up. That's illegal use of monopoly power.

That is simply not (any longer) true. Yes, you CAN buy PC system with no Windows preloaded, ie. with FreeDOS, Knoppix or even Ubuntu. And you can buy it from top tier companies like Dell, HP or IBM (sorry, Lenovo).

Re:Flavours?

[bankman]

Otherwise, you can put ALL of that on one DVD, and install it with no more than few reboots. All you need is program like UltraISO, and a guide like this. You know, you CAN slipstream SP2, and all the latest patches and drivers into Windows installation. And use simple unattend.txt file to set defaults to most installation options (CD key, keyboard setting, resolution, time zone).

The real question is, why does a user have to do this? It's pointless and a waste of time, since the software supplier should have already done that for you. The same goes for updates. Tracking security updates from 30 different vendors is idiotic, it should a one command/click thing, very much like apt-get or yum.

Re:Flavours?

[WhiteWolf666]

RHEL is, indeed, free.

The *only* thing you pay for is support.

Link here:
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/eval/

You sign up for the 'evaluation'. You get the full install, and a one month subscription.

You do not get updates after one month.

With RHEL, you aren't paying for the software, you are paying for the support. Period.

More information:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/redhat-migration-l ist/2003-November/msg00025.html

The source will always be avaliable from Redhat. Period. It's a free product.

Don't expect someone to wrap the package up for you and present it in a usable form, with free updates, though. They aren't under any license requirement, and they've already given you the full source. Don't you think its a little ungrateful to ask for more?

About the pre-built systems:

Wow. I wasn't aware of that. I just saw that on Dell's small business site. And you even save ~$75 per system, which is great. That's definitely a good thing. A caveats, however: you can't get a laptop like that. And you won't get proper hardware support (like dell's non-standard compliant ACPI implementations). Still, that's really just a small quibble.

I don't remember seeing that option before, but I guess its been awhile since I've shopped at Dell.

I have happily paraded HP's Linux laptop to people, however. Perhaps competition will reign in the future.

Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure ..it'll come in seven flavors, but they'll all taste like crap.

Re:Yes.

[jkrise]

Even if it does taste crap, 90% of the computer users will pirate it just to taste it.

Re:Yes.

[DigiShaman]

Arrrr...more resources for me to plunder!!

Wow... are they also going to include Cedega?

[DaedalusHKX]

You know, so that they can remain compatible with "windows" ? or is the new product a complete, linux based rewrite with the old front end?

Honestly folks, how many times has microsoft and its partners delivered a secure, clean and workable product?

Two of these three is ALWAYS missing:

Secure
Clean
Workable
Good Pricing
Value for money

But usually more than 2 missing. After my last "hunt" for drivers in windows XP and 2000, I don't even find them "well supported" anymore. But then again, I have exotic hardware, not a 499 + 500 dollar rebate PC from walmart.

~D

Re:Wow... are they also going to include Cedega?

[dtdns]

Two of these three is...

Second Brother: First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

Maynard: Amen.
Knights: Amen.
Arthur: Right! One!... Two!... Five!
Galahad: Three, sir!
Arthur: Three!
[angels sing]
[boom]

There goes Vista! Sorry, I just had to...

Re:Wow... are they also going to include Cedega?

[jaavaaguru]

It's three, using the Microsoft Word page number counting system.

Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[Omicron32]

So much for the anti-Linux crowd saying there's far too many distro's...

Anyone know what the major differences are between the versions then? Will schools (which is where I make a living as a sysadmin) and businesses require Enterprise edition for networks or what?

I should RTFA, eh?

Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[CyricZ]

I wouldn't say this is an example of there being too many distros. No, not at all. This is an example of unnecessary fragmentation within a distro itself. It would be as if there were seven different versions of Slackware Linux 10.

Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[Liam Slider]

I don't exactly know what people's problem with multiple distros is. Different companies and people have different ideas for what a good OS should be, and so modify Linux to suit their needs. And what's wrong with having competing distros? Competition is a good thing, it's what made our capitalist society so great! Competition and "survival of the fittest" are also the mechanisms by which we humans came to exist as a species. And monoculture is always a bad thing, particularly in computing as Microsoft kept showing us...so why do so many people push for "one distro to rule them all"? Seems like Microsoft thinking to me... Why would we want to encourage that?

Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[Sancho]

I don't think this is that far out of line.

First of all, knock off the "starter edition" altogether in most parts of the world. Even the countries where it exists, it's not used significantly. I'm socked Microsoft is even maintaining that idea at all.

Then, most people will only ever have to worry about the two home versions. The niches they fill are pretty much pre-established: most OEMs will deliver the watered down version, whereas most do-it-yourselfers will probably get the more advanced version. Same as XP Home vs Pro.

The biggest fragmentation seems to be in the business-oriented versions, but even current businesses have some fragmentation (2003 server vs. XP Pro.) Adding one "distro" and separating the "home pros" from the "work pros" isn't all that unreasonable. In fact, companies might welcome the default removal of the media player. Lastly, you get the Windows with Everything, including the kitchen sink--something that's necessary in case you want the business features coupled with multimedia features.

Truth is, 99% of the people will use whatever's handed to them. The only people who will have any sort of decision to make will be the power users and corporations, who can just run down the feature list and choose whatever meets their needs. Assuming the prices scale (and assuming/hoping that they are more-or-less bounded by the current pricing scheme) what this actually does is add more choice for how to spend your money, and add more gradations of money to spend. Really, it's a step towards the right direction in Windows, which would be allowing you to custom build the components you want and getting a price based on what you asked for.

Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[zerocool^]

It's not that simple, man.

Do you know how many times I've had to explain to so-and-so that their computer they purchased at Best Buy with XPHome and brought to work can't be joined to the domain? That it isn't going to be able to use Exchange-based Outlook?

This is a real common problem for us ground-pounders who support small-to-medium businesses. For example, a lot of the clients I deal with started out with a simple workgroup, and have since wanted to upgrade to a 2003 SBServer in order to gain access to Exchange, centralized file storage, and centralized user management. But, sice they bought their computers from CompUSA, they have to now buy all new computers, with a $160 OS. Or pay hourly to upgrade from XPHome to Pro, plus the $99 upgrade. Real Estate offices are notorius for this - agents usually buy their own computers for use in the office.

Making more versions of windows is only going to compound this issue. Additionally, you're going to get users who expect certain things to be in the OS, and will call and ask when they aren't. Or, how about "removing media player from the pro version"?? You don't charge *more* for a product, and strip things out of it.

This is going to be an end-user support nightmare. When they don't understand now that there are two versions, and the differences between them, what's going to happen when there are 6 or 7 available?

~Will

Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory...

[MikeWitt]

First of all, knock off the "starter edition" altogether in most parts of the world. Even the countries where it exists, it's not used significantly. I'm socked Microsoft is even maintaining that idea at all.

The "Starter Edition" isn't about wanting another edition of Vista, it's about price. Now, microsoft can brag about Vista costing $20 bucks or whatever, but that only buys you a copy of DOS branded as Vista. then they go in and charge you 400+ for the "Ultimate edition."

Another thing, if they make a cheap version, it will be doing what the music industry did, they're offering a version in which you can pick which pieces of the OS you want, and charge less. This won't eliminate the problem, but should allieviate the problem, b/c why steal when you can just get a legit copy for less than dirt?

I'm not trying to say that Microsoft is good, simply that there is reasoning behind at least three (Starter, Home, Ultimate) of the versions. Those are the three versions they should be coming out with.

'Ultimate' Edition

[gunpowda]

It doesn't really sound like the so-called Ultimate Edition has that much extra to offer.

What are the odds that you'll be able to 'upgrade' from one version to the other by changing one registry key?

Re:'Ultimate' Edition

[lheal]

>one registry key

And rebooting. Don't forget the rebooting.

Re:'Ultimate' Edition

[Lord_Dweomer]

What are the odds that they're going to clamp down on license verification ridiculously for Ultimate? I have no doubt it will be hacked, but I'll bet this thing phones home if you so much as take a crap, and once they find out you're using an improperly upgraded version, they'll have the ability to turn off your features remotely I'm sure.

This is going to confuse the hell out of people.

[CyricZ]

This is going to confuse the living daylights out of people, especially non-technical users.

Home users probably won't know what version they have, and that will complicate tech support calls of all types. It'll be difficult to help people calling for aide, regardless of whether they're calling Dell tech support or their nephew.

Developers will continually have to look up what features each system supports, and may very well just end up developing for the lowest common denominator in order to maximize support across all versions.

It was difficult enough trying to get average users to understand that Windows XP Home is different from Windows XP Professional. Hell, it's difficult enough to even remember all these names, let alone remember what features are different between each.

So six of them have artificial limitations?

[bcmm]

So six of them have artificial limitations? That's gonna be hacked sometime just after the release day, methinks.

Re:So six of them have artificial limitations?

[xao gypsie]

after the release date? no way. I remember having a 'friend' who was able to find a workaround for the activation fiasco before the release of windows xp....

Re:So six of them have artificial limitations?

[zr-rifle]

Yes. Chinese crackers will eventually speed up the OS, make clippy do a blue hadouken and unlock Microsoft Bob as a playable character.

Then Microsoft will be forced to release Windows Vista Champion Edition.

So they're finally competeing...

[El Tonerino]

...and trying to beat the number of linux distributions available. Nothing short of confusion shall reign.

The infamous Missing Vista Editions...

[pieterh]

- Vista Secure Edition: completely redesigned kernel and win32 libraries make this edition secure against virus, worm, trojan, spyware, and phish attacks!

- Vista Compact Edition: with just the software you need, including the much appreciated MSOfficeCompact, this edition runs on your P100 with 128Mb.

- Vista Instant Edition: bootable in so many ways, this is all the software you need to boot that recaltricant box and get it working again. Comes complete with legacy support for every known device.

- Vista Grandmother Edition: simple, fast, and based on all the best of Windows Secure, this is the software you wished you'd had when your parents asked, "How do I get onto the Internet?"

- Vista Open Edition: free, and packed to the hilt with first-class open source, all verified and tuned by MicrosoftOpenLabs for that smooth experience. Comes with full source code.

Re:The infamous Missing Vista Editions...

[tokul]

- Vista EU Edition: Starter or Home Basic without Media Player.

- Vista Monopoly Edition: clippy destroys any software that does not belong to Microsoft.

Re:The infamous Missing Vista Editions...

[beeblebrox87]

- Vista Secure Edition
http://www.openbsd.org/
- Vista Compact Edition
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
- Vista Instant Edition
http://www.knoppix.org/
- Vista Grandmother Edition
http://www.apple.com/
- Vista Open Edition
http://www.debian.org/

Good Grief Charlie Brown

[Walzmyn]

Seven? Haven't we been complaining about the difference between Home and Pro in XP? Now they're going to divide it up even more? I thought this was a software company not a marketing enterprise. All this is, is an atempt to milk more money out of less work. I'm dualing Mandriva and XP (for the wife) and I think as Mandriva updates, Winders ain't going to. Sorry, Bill.

I see this as a good thing

[Kazzahdrane]

As long as the average home user can get a cheaper version of their OS without the complex functions they won't ever need/use. But then I seem to be in the minority anyway, I have a legal version of XP and think the OS is a piece of software well worth paying for. Nice to see from the article that many of the features us geeks buy Pro edition of XP for are going to be included in the Premium Home edition of Vista, and that the "Pro" version is actually going to be aimed at business.

Hrm it seems every slap of the wrist helps them

[tod_miller]

They realised that by offering extra versions, they can sway the sales of units, by giving competitors the chance to sell 'ultimate edition' windows for cut prices etc. Seems that this version play will come back and bite some people in the ass.

Also, this is a bit of a 'hey EU, we are suing you but, look, you can't get us on not offering enough versions now, lol'.

BTW, I don't get it, Microsoft is suing the EU, that means they are reaching into the pockets of every tax paying EU citizen, and taking money, you know, EU lawyers and teams are not free to deal with this crap.

I say, you cannot have corporations bullying europe like this, no a flame, but honestly, US is PWNED by microsoft, things are going swimmingly for them, but with patents and their flagrant disregard for the laws and judgements of europe, I think people should wake up soon and jump ship.

Oh well, it wouldn't suprise me if Microsoft bashing has become a moderat..able offense, see you in -1 land, any second now.

Support nightmare

[orlinius]

Am I the only one to think that this will be a nightmare for people in the support industry.
I'm already having a headache with 7 different editions of Windows 2003 Server and what limitations each one has. Now 7 desktop editions. Obviously they like the number 7.

Can't they just do like Apple and have 1 Client and 1 Server edition of the OS. Even RedHat has only 3 server editions and 1 desktop edition.

Nooo, MSFT has decided to milk us all the way with a product segmentation strategy. Well, I guess that they need all the money they can get with their revenues being stagnant in the past several years.

Re:Support nightmare

[Krach42]

Ah yes, it'll be so much easier for the support people when you have to ask:

Tech: "What OS are you running?"
Clueless: "What do you mean OS?"
Tech: "It's the thing running your computer."
Clueless: "Oh, Dell."
Tech: "Dell is the manufacturer... who makes the software on it?"
Clueless: "OH!!! I'm sorry. OpenOffice."
Tech: "*sigh* Ok, open up a terminal."
Clueless: "How do I do that?"
Tech: "Well, if you're using Linux GNOME, find the little icon that is located somewhere on some panel that's a little screen like thing, and click that. If you're using Linux KDE, then mostly the same procedure, except everything is going to look different. If you're running MacOSX then open Finder, go to the Applications directory, then go into Utilities then double click on the one that says "Terminal" if you're running ZetaOS then........"

Gimme a break. Tech support people dealing with customers will always suck until people learn how to understand computers, and then they won't need tech support for anything but those damned esoteric problems that really aren't their fault.

Will there be...

[lunax]

one flavor to rule them all?

Re:Will there be...

[JoeCommodore]

Um.. that would be the Windows Vista Cracker Edition.

Re:Will there be...

[varmittang]

Mac OS X

No, really. If Apple opens that up to all Wintel computer companies, it will rule them all. That is if they ever do.

Article Text

[slashflood]

• Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
• Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
• Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
• Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
• Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
• Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Re:Article Text

[Neo-Rio-101]

Starter Edition, Sloth
Home Basic Edition, Anger
Home Premium Edition, - Pride
Professional Edition, - Lust
Small Business Edition, - Envy
Enterprise Edition, and Greed
Ultimate Edition.- Gluttony

I think these are better names for the editions.

I'll take a Windows Vista Gluttony Edition, thanks

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[mkro]

Home users probably won't know what version they have, and that will complicate tech support calls of all types.

Been there, done that.
- "So do you have service pack 2 installed?"
- "Uhm, maybe you should speak to my son, I am not much into this..."
- "Hold the little flag button on the bottom left of your keyboard, then push the Pause/Break button faaar up on the right at the same time"
- "Oh, something happened."
- "Can you read what is says under System?"
- "Uh, yes, Windows... copyright, oh, Service pack 2"

Usually this does not take longer than 30 secs, and will most likely work on Vista too.

Seems like a load of arse to me.

[caluml]

Good lord. What a lot of nonsense that looks like. I wonder why they haven't taken it to extremes and have "Windows Webserver", "Windows Fileserver", "Windows Domain Controller", etc versions. Surely Workstation, Server, and maybe Advanced Server (for clustering, load-balancing, etc) are the only versions really needed. All the rest are so they can gouge a few more pounds/dollars/euros/yen out of the users.
Still - I'm not worried - it looks like England will win the Test, and I run Linux, so all is well.

Re:Seems like a load of arse to me.

[locokamil]

Well... they won't win the Test, they'll draw it. But they'll still take home the Ashes-- what a glorious day it will be. :)

About bloody time. It's been what? 15, 20 years now?

More Windows confusion good for Linux

[Novus]

This makes choosing the right Windows version to install almost as hard as choosing the right Linux distribution. Imagine the sales:

- 1 copy of Windows Vista, please.
- Will that be Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition or Ultimate Edition?
- Uh... Never mind, just give me the latest openSUSE Linux.

One can only hope...

Alternative ending:

- Does the Enterprise Edition come with Kirk or Picard?

Every other OS is easier to buy(or simply:select)?

[D4C5CE]

there will be 7 versions of Windows Vista: Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition.

ROTFL! You couldn't even make these things up... The new worry for purchasing managers seems to become "how not to get fired for picking the wrong flavor of Windows." Makes you think twice about telling your company to stay on Windows in the first place...
Remember there was a company that had an ad complaining how Linux came in too many "mutations" (the basis of evolution BTW)?

just wondering...

[akhomerun]

does ANYONE think this is a good idea? i mean, some things that /. readers can't tolerate, the typical american consumer doesn't care about. but seriously, is there a single person in the entire world who thinks this is a step forewards? is there going to be a single gamer, grandma, IT guy, programmer, homework-doer, or first-time computer buyer who actually thinks this is a good idea? why wouldn't microsoft want to make things more simple for the consumer. the ipod + itunes combo is an outstanding example of how simplicity, reliability, and having a complete system can win over consumers even if the device is overpriced at times, and if other MP3 players have more features.

Re:just wondering...

[Haeleth]

does ANYONE think this is a good idea?

Yes, since you ask. Microsoft, for example.

the ipod + itunes combo is an outstanding example of how simplicity, reliability, and having a complete system can win over consumers even if the device is overpriced at times, and if other MP3 players have more features.

It's also a perfect example of how having a complete range, covering a wide variety of price points and feature sets, is not actually a bad thing.

"I'd like an iPod, please."
"Certainly, sir, would that be a 20 GB iPod, a 60 GB iPod, a 2 GB iPod Nano, a 4 GB iPod Nano, a 512 MB iPod Shuffle, a 1 GB iPod Shuffle, or we have some special editions over there and some old stock including various iPod Minis over there..."

In fact, all in all there are probably several times as many different variations on the iPod as there will be on Windows Vista. So, uh, what was your point again?

Re:just wondering...

[philg8]

You raise a valid point about differing products and prices. However, in the iPod example you give, the main differences are all about:
1) how big (physically) is the iPod and
2) how many songs does it hold? (Apple generally advertises number of songs instead of GB)

These two concepts are very simple for most people to understand. You can tell how big anything is just by looking at it, and cassettes came in 30, 60, and 90 minute lengths (I'm sure there are other examples), so consumers are accustomed to the idea of finite music space.

Creating differences in an operating system is a whole new world of trouble. First of all, even the technically skilled people who understand the differences will still have to research the differences. For people who aren't familiar with the inner workings of an OS this will pose an impossible task, and they will buy whatever Dell or Best Buy says they need.

Also, limitations in the software will not be restricted based on physical attributes (such as hard drive storage), but rather on whatever Microsoft decides should be functional.

"Sorry, to connect using ODBC you'll need at least a Small Business License." Of course, the Small Business will only connect to Jet DB (Access) sources, and Enterprise will be required for SQL Server connections. (Those are hypothetical examples of the top of my head). I always find limitations that are imposed only because I haven't forked over enough money are really annoying.

Re:Windows Vista Forum

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't "find" the website. You own the website. You've already said you own iconnectzone.com. A Whois on winvistasecrets.com and a whois on iconnectzone.com gives the same owner: Linlay Lee Kien On. Most of your comments spam these links. The Slashdot community doesn't give a shit about some Micro$oft-promoting website. So get lost.

New Motto

[Comatose51]

New Microsoft motto: "Gotta Catch'Em All"

Educated guesses

[Jarnis]

Ooo lets see... Educated Guess Time;

I predict that...

General people will buy the cheapest version that runs all applications. That version will be bundled with majority of the home computers. That will probably be the 'Basic' Home version. Don't expect it to be any cheaper than current Home Edition - MS has a monopoly, no reason to undercut in such situation. Premium crap will most likely be priced like today's Pro version, and will only sell to the crowd that today buys Media Center Edition.

If there are feature differences that matter to the applications (such as games or normal productivity apps) everyone will ignore crippled versions - bye bye starter ed. Dunno why MS can't figure this out.

Ultimate Edition will probably be sold to the Alienware/Dell XPS crowd that is too clueless. Rest will ignore the MS software clutter - especially since the ultimate edition has 'subscription' written all over it - the OS itself might work without one, but if it adds any downloadable extras, those will definitely want your personal information, and probably monthly fee sooner or later. I guess MS has gotten addicted to the mothly income it gathers from XBox Live subscribers. Someone has probably calculated how much they'd make if they could milk monthly fees from (some) Windows users as well.

As far as Warez goes - unless the 'Corporate Pro/Enterprise editions' are crippled in some way that matters to home user (lack of MCE features doesn't really qualify), that will be the version(s) that will make rounds - just like today. Additionally the 'Ultimate' version will be cracked to satisfy the 'Must have best version' crowd that previously cackled and downloaded warez versions of such gems as Win2003 Advanced Server for their home PCs so they could have the 'best' Windows. However, most won't want to bother with the extra bloat - or it will be ripped out of the Ultimate and plugged to a suitably modded Corporate version.

Just my 2 cents...

hell yes.

[imag0]

I've been sitting here this evening getting some scripts setup to auto-export IIS website configurations (which I then export out to a Linux box with some PHP and MySql goodness makes a searchable database for all the websites we do shared hosting with).

There's eight different servers (a test bed), just about all of them have to be treated in some special way (iis5 exports stuff differently than iis6, forcing me to write my parser *twice* to make things work right.

Even better, sometimes different service packs change things around in undocumented ways, forcing me to once again re-write individual scripts to take that into account.

Eight boxes, two versions of Microsoft operating systems, two service packs and I have five(!) different scripts to handle it all and make it work.

Where Do You Want To Go Today, indeed.

Why do you run your site on Linux?

[CyricZ]

It looks like your pro-Windows site runs on Linux.

http://uptime.netcraft.net/up/graph?site=www.winvi stasecrets.com&probe=1

Is Windows, be it Windows 2000 Server or Windows 2003 Server, unable to cope with the minor loads your site receives?

Re:Why do you run your site on Linux?

[diegocgteleline.es]

Why do you run your site on Linux?

Because they're not stupid zealots who has to use just 1 operative system to satisfy their ego? Because they're using a hosting company who runs linux?

Re:Why do you run your site on Linux?

[Sancho]

That's absurd. Should PalmOS be hosted on a PalmOS server?

We use the operating system that is the best for the job. I use Windows at home for some things. My notebook (which goes with me just about everywhere, including work) runs Linux. Maybe this guy just doesn't think that Windows is that hot for servers, but is more than capable as a workstation? Life isn't black and white, you know.

Re:Why do you run your site on Linux?

[CyricZ]

Is PalmOS a server operating system? Of course not! Hence a site regarding it should not be forced to run on PalmOS.

Indeed, it is important to use the best system for the job. When one touts Windows as the best system, then they should very well be using it themselves. If they aren't using it, then that is evidence to suggest it does not live up to their hype.

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[Krach42]

What like with Windows XP? XP has six flavors:

Windows XP Personal Edition
Windows XP Professional Edition
Windows XP Personal Edition N
Windows XP Professional Edition N
Windows XP...
Windows XP...

I don't remember the other two off the top of my head, but I know they're there.

Or, maybe it's like Server 2003

Which comes in 5 flavors:

Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
Windows Server 2003 High-Performance Computing
Windows Small Business Server 2003

(I left out the x64, and ia64 flavors, as I don't believe those are actually really all that much of "flavors" but they are sold seperately, so I guess you could make it 7.)

So, wow. Despite actually having the names for the flavors of Windows Vista. What's the news here? That Microsoft has targetted its products since XP? That's is old news.

Customer confusion

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

At first, I thought having this many versions of the same product would be confusing to customers, but then I realised that M$ has an easy way to determine needs:

Customer: I want to upgrade my Windows 2000 machine to Vista. Which version do I need?

M$: Oh that's easy. How much money do you have?

I can see it now

[HangingChad]

OEM's will be bundling Vista Basic to keep their prices down and when the average joe tries to install his video editing software he's going to find out the first thing he has to do is upgrade Windows.

So besides buying an antivirus subscription and antispyware now the user will have to buy an OS upgrade to do much of anything.

Fork Vista. I'm SO glad to have started moving away from Windoze long ago.

Re:Two *Other* Versions

[Adelbert]

Sorry, are you talking about Vista or Debian?

Better nip this one early

[Trejkaz]

Just so that less people are confused, can we please make sure that only the Ultimate edition gets leaked onto BitTorrent? That will avoid most of the confusion. :-)

that's the point

[idlake]

Just to be on the safe side, everybody will buy the most expensive version they can afford. It's called "differential pricing".

Obvious

[Tango42]

It's obvious why they've done it. Now whenever someone complains that windows in too expensive they can say "But we've got cheap version if you want them", so they can charge much more for the better version, knowing perfectly well that nobody will ever actually use Starter Edition, even if it is half the price.

3 applications? That that include background utilities like virus scanner and firewall? What about IM? So I have AVG, Zonealarm and Trillian running (did I pick the right ones? those are the current choices on /., yes?), so i can't run anything else, not even a browser.

Re:Windows Vista Forum

[spideyct]

And now he has you to thank for getting his websites mentioned in a +5 comment.

What's that sound?

[springbox]

Cha-ching!

If you can't get 'em with quality, hit 'em with quantity!

I'm moving to linux

[spideyct]

That's the last straw. I'm moving to linux, where the choices are much simpler.

They left out..

[knigitz]

Pirated Edition.

Re:They left out..

[yesteraeon]

From TFA:

One final note worth mentioning is that this strategy does remove the "corporate Windows XP" option from the hands of pirates. Volume licensing for Pro, SBE, and EE may still mean that there will be copies of Windows Vista out there that don't "call home" for Windows Product Activation, but as you can see, Microsoft has removed most of the features that most pirates would want from those OSes. You won't see corporate licensing versions of Ultimate Edition.

So, no volume licences for versions with all the fancy multimedia bells and whistles (HDTV, DVD authoring, DVD ripping, etc). They seem to figure potential pirates would want these features and businesses will not. Though speaking as someone who has worked in a school's IT department I can say there's at least one environment that may well want features like that but still has enough installs to do to make per machine activiation impractical.

Re:They left out..

[TheSpoom]

Windows Vista Ultimate Corporate Leaked Key Edition!

Re:They left out..

[Pharmboy]

I am sure they will have some tools to make activation easier, however, this will still make Linux look even better in the corporate world. People bitch about the sheer volume of Linux distros, but this puts that to shame. At least when you look at the different Linux distros, there are real differences in each, even if the core is the same.

7 different Windows has GOT to cause some confusion in the marketplace. This is another example of something that may look good on paper, but in reality, isn't. This will lead to people buying "the wrong" Windows, and being told they have to upgrade via a retail product from #4 to #3, for only $179, to use some software or feature. This WILL lead to some people seeking alternatives.

Re:They left out..

[katsklaw]

"Microsoft has removed most of the features that most pirates would want from those OSes. You won't see corporate licensing versions of Ultimate Edition."

I think they were refering to stability, since DVD authoring/ripping or any other "feature" can easily be done 3rd party. Granted it would be nice to have a stable OS that can natively rip DVD's however once you look at the pricetag ... nice has a different definition.

It's also been my experience that "pirates" take what they can get and are more interested in distributing than actually using the software they pirate. It's also more of the thrill to have something illegal than what the capabilities are. How many pirates do you know that distribute FreeBSD?

I think it would be nice that Windows could readily run 400+ days uptime like some of their Unix based competitors that are free. Instead one pays $1000+ US for Windows Server farming abilities (again can be done for free). I've lost count how many "Windows Preachers" I've told "*nix can do that to and it's free". Why not ditch windows and give that $1000+ to a *nix programmer. You get exactlly what you want and do something about the worlds unemployment rate at the same time.

Re:They left out..

[yesteraeon]

I think they were refering to stability, since DVD authoring/ripping or any other "feature" can easily be done 3rd party.

I thought about that, and then I realized something. I can also use those 3rd party apps on XP. Plus it doesn't have all that pesky DRM. I'll stick with what I've got.

Re:They left out..

[Alien54]

now with built in pornograph, all for your interactive pleasure

Re:They left out..

[csguy314]

This will lead to people buying "the wrong" Windows,

I wasn't aware there was a "right" version of Windows... ;)

Re:They left out..

[vsprintf]

#ifndef ULTIMATE_EDITION
disable_gaming_support();
#endif
#ifndef ENTERPRISE_EDITION
disable_wan_support();
#endif
#ifndef PREMIUM_EDITION
disable_large_file_support();
#endif
#ifdef BASIC_EDITION
enable_random_bsod();
#endif
// splash_screen("Windows 3.1 is starting");
// splash_screen("Windows 95 is starting");
// splash_screen("Windows 98 is starting");
// splash_screen("Windows ME is starting");
// splash_screen("Windows 2000 is starting");
// splash_screen("Windows XP is starting");
splash_screen("Windows Vista is starting");
goto start_windoz;

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[SamSim]

Personally I'm a big fan of telling tech support I have Windows 97.

Now if they..

[fenrisjlk]

Now if they made a sort of gaming edition, where I didn't have to deal with the rest of the OS. That's obviously for many people one of the few reasons why they have to use Windows rather than Linux, gaming.

So if they made a simple interface for gaming only, with a barebone Windows OS, I think dual booting would be more recommended. No?

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[CyricZ]

It really isn't. You don't have Slackware Linux 10.0 Ultimate, Slackware Linux 10.0 Supreme, Slackware Linux 10.0 Super Duper, Slackware Linux 10.0 Maximus, Slackware Linux 10.0 Christian Edition, Slackware Linux 10.0 Bonus, and so on. Most Linux distros are very specific, and thus do not need to have numerous different version of each release.

Working Edition

[unoengborg]

Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition

I don't care how many flavors they have. Just give me a Working Edition

Hey Mr. Comedian - enough with BSOD

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time you used MS Windows?

Re:Hey Mr. Comedian - enough with BSOD

[muszek]

When it started booting to BSOD by default ;)

Seriously, my last install of windows had something screwed up with some *ntfs*.* file (it loaded straight to BSOD every time). I was under linux most of the time and I -- having spent few hours trying to correct the problem -- didn't want to re-install an OS I wasn't using a lot (plus I'd have to fix GRUB).

Solution: I installed windows on another disc, booted from it and then chose the first installation during the boot time.
Problem: linux was on the first disc with the broken windows. In order to boot to Windows, I had to go to BIOS and change order of booting (luckily one disc was SATA, so I didn't have to mess with cables).

Re:Hey Mr. Comedian - enough with BSOD

[jasen666]

Who's fucking joking? I get BSOD's at home and at the office.
Sure, maybe less now than it did with NT4 or W2k, but it still BSOD's if you even sneeze at it.
And I'm not a MS hater, I'm an MCDBA. But I'm also realistic. Just running WoW at home now takes down my system. Haven't bothered tracing down the problem yet, mostly because I know I'll invariably end up having to reinstall XP yet again.

I wish I could laugh at the BSOD jokes.

Re:Hey Mr. Comedian - enough with BSOD

[TetryonX]

My laptop (Sager NP4750) has a nasty history with windows, from BSoDs related to ntfs.sys, acpi.sys, and other issues. Reason being? Not hardware.

NTFS: Windows happened to manage to fuckup its MFTs on its own and couldn't repair the problem. I had to transfer all my files to another computer and then reformat/restore the setup (using a WinPE) again because the shitty chkdsk couldn't/didn't work.

ACPI: Windows didn't like how long my ACPIEC was taking to respond so it would occationally BSoD. This was not a hardware issue, downgrading my bios version corrected this issue.

These two problems *** WERE NOT PROBLEMS IN ANY OTHER OPERATING SYSTEM ***, only microsoft.

I've done plenty of hardware probing on my system and all devices report that they are working properly.

Your bullshit comment about 99% of hardware instability caused by those reasons are NOT true. Only people who tweak their systems will get oc issues. Faulty memory sometimes is the cause, but is NOT the main problem. Overheating? Bullshit. Most systems aren't ricer systems. They often run well under max-specs for temp and yet they become problematic ONLY UNDER WINDOWS.

Please find me an official windows cd that can run most of anyone's hardware without any 3rd party drivers installed.

With me:
Windows: 12 nonfunctional devices.
Linux: 1 nonfunctional device (webcam).

Don't even bother saying "Well, it's cause your distro of linux is newer than windows xp", maybe it is, but with all the patching that windows has, there is no excuse for the lack of default hardware support.

Take your bitching somewhere else. Just because you didn't have problems with windows doesn't mean that everyone else is in the same boat as you are.

Re:strange....

[Waffle Iron]

I was always under the impression that it was a bad idea for a business to split their products like that....

Check out the soft drink aisle at your grocery store. Both Pepsi and Coke have subdivided their colas into countless combinations and permutations from { diet caffeine-free cherry vanilla with-lemon "One" etc. }. All of these variations consume so much shelf space that there is little if any room left for other competitors outside the Big 2.

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[fermion]

I don't think it is going to be confusing, at least not in a way that affects sales. MS did the home/pro thing to meet the demand for the $599 PC, which meant that it could not demand high specs and charge a lot for the OS. Most consumers did not care because all they wanted was a cheap PC that did three major things. For those who needed more, the $599 PC became a $699 PC, mostly due to the cost of the non-crippled OS. But most people just listened to the sales person and assumed that the crippled version was all they needed.

This is the same game. To compete with Linux, they need an even cheaper version to run on the even cheaper machines. So they create a version that they can give away so the vendors can sell the kit for $399. The number of versions on shelves will likely only be three, the rest probably sold by site license. I admit to being confused by three home editions, but I suspect that is meant more as an upgrade path, to insure continuing revenue from the home user, rather than products offered for regular ales.

In the end notice they left pro as pro so those who need the lesser-toy version of windows knows what to buy. Everyhting else is there to allow kit vendors to increase profit and thereby remain loyal to MS.

This is an example of markting out of control

[nurb432]

You only need 1 version of a desktop OS. Sure you may have *options* on top of that, but this is just marketing to make it sound more important and to suck even more money out of the consumer.

7? Sheesh.

Re:Trend?

[belg4mit]

I think it's a general business trend, and I hate it. 4 or 5 flavors of Sprite, another half dozen Pepsis and Cokes (some multiplicity has always been tolerable here, but now it's just ridiculous. w/ lemon? w/lime? Those are already in there under natural flavors!) The Mars bar is now a Snickers with Almonds. Consolidation of brand names, as if it helps increase awareness instead of indifference, frustration, or confusion.

Vista? What a JOKE

[brockbr]

Backstory
I make my living as a software architect for a large national corporation using the Win32 platform. I've got over 15 years coding & design experience.

I started out with Borland products, but slowly migrated to MS products due to the following factors:
1) Tools were built by the makers of the OS
2) API Documentation
3) Microsoft's desire to support the development community
4) OS stability - Laugh if you like, but at the time there wasn't much else to run on an 8088.

Screw The Developers
Recently, Microsoft has decided that the development community needed more "options" - In other words, let's screw all of the MSDN Universal holders into "Upgrading" to a new type of subscription - Therefore changing the concept of "Universal" to mean "Kinda sorta, but not really". You no longer can get "EVERYTHING" any more.

Screw The Consumer
Next - They're moving on to Vista (what a STUPID name) with 7 different flavors. They are "creating" a compositing desktop using the graphics hardware and touting it as the next "New Thing(tm)". Instead of using a bitmapped desktop, they've gone to this "new innovation". Uh - Mac OSX has done this since day 1. Nothing new here.

Along with "Vista", they are incorporating many "new" things - Security concepts that are really just hacks on top of a horrible idea.

Fundamentally, Microsoft has refused to accept that they themselves perpetuate the security problems they currently have. Most Win32 developers have been bottle fed to accept that the local user has admin rights. They code everything with this assumption. Because of this, Microsoft has had a VERY difficult time securing the desktop. Microsoft has no choice but to try and design around a problem of their own creation.

Fact is you cannot secure a machine where there is, effectively, no security. I say "effectively" because if all users have all rights, then where is the security?

Combine the Two Above - Rinse/Wash/Repeat
This long diatribe is really to sum up that Microsoft has ignored the problems for so long, and is not even prepared to address them with the development community. Even their latest development "security" attempts are too little too late for such an egregious flaw.

And now, to top it off, they're going to attempt to baffle the world with bullshit by releasing 7 versions of an OS - What a fantastically stupid idea.

The downward spiral started many years ago, and will end with people like me leaving the platform for something that truly performs - For something not built on technical quicksand.


(BTW - I type this from my G5 Mac in my home where the last remaining PC is serving as print server and remote desktop to host VS.NET so that I can work at home - They're are now 4 other Macs in the house)

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[nazsco]

why? everyone will have the ULTIMATE from winbeta with a hack. after all, it will be the only one that will be able to play non-DRMed media files.

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[tengwar]

My cupholder just popped out, you insensitive clod!

Google OS

[Anonymous Coward]

i am waiting for Google OS.

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[antiMStroll]

"Windows Server 2003 High-Performance Computing"

Hmmmm, what level of computing are the four then?

Looks as if Microsoft...

[trudyscousin]

...has been taking lessons from someone else who produces badly-conceived products.

Lest you think I'm trolling, I have a legitimate question: Why must there be so much stratification?

Guy Kawasaki was fond of using the analogy of sailors and passengers aboard a ship: "A passenger gets on a ship, plays shuffleboard, and eats at the captain's table. A sailor weighs the anchor, goes into the engine room, and gets grease under his fingernails." He said that a product that was deep, indulgent, complete, and elegant could appeal to both kinds of users.

What we have here isn't any of these things. Instead, it's what a marketer sees as a way to "add value" and provide "choice" and ultimately increase revenues, but what it will really produce is confusion, because no one is going to be really sure which of Microsoft's offerings will suit them best.

they also left out...

[Anonymous Coward]

Starter Plus Registry Hack Edition.

Flavours...

[rathehun]

...can I have mine in apple? ;)

Over here..

[chord.wav]

In Argentina, most PCs come with one flavor of Linux installed with an XP theme by default.

Most of users who don't know nothing of OSes, buy it thinking it is XP and they realize that once they already bought them.

I'm not sure if this is good or bad, more like a Shing Yang.

PC vendors lower their costs that way, but they don't inform the user about the OS installed.

Users realize they don't have XP when they try to do something that they used to, or when they try to download MSN. Then, the general line of thinking is "I can't get anything done with Linux, Linux suck" and they get a pirated copy of XP.

Back to the topic, it's clear that MS don't want to let Linux reach the user. They will encourage PC vendors to sell the Vista version that only boots on odd days and let's you hit the start button once per session. That way they get ahead with this problem.
Linux has a chance NOW. Linux is actually reaching the user NOW, but fails to demonstrate that it is actually good for the common tasks that the user does.

I'm not saying that something can't be done with Linux. The problem is that the user simply doesn't realize that yet and they get rid of Linux before they have a chance to do so.

Re:Too many targets

[Liam Slider]

The lack of a usable standard to develop toward. When distributing a program, you have to support many distributions. That means multiple package formats, different file paths, different configuration file formats (init scripts being the worst, if your program is a daemon), different libraries bundled, different desktop types and ways to make your program visible, etc.

You know, I actually remember back when home computers were new....and actually called home computers (or, sometimes, microcomputers). Back then every computer brand was utterly different, different OS, different base language, often a different processor. It was chaos and it was glorious. There were a massive amount of computer systems to choose from, from extremely light, low end, cheap systems like the Timex-Sinclair 1000, to the mid-range C-64, to the expensive IBM PC. All were different. All had a wealth of software avaliable for them. Developers wrote software for their chosen machines, their chosen OS, but often they wrote completely different versions of the same software for multiple types of machines (Visicalc was a good example of this). Nobody complained to my knowledge.

Too many people have grown up in a monopolist, monoculture society, they think computing has to be that way and always has been.

As for the different distributions of Linux....yes, they are different distributions of Linux, but they are not really different "distributions" of the same OS. Essentially they are different operating systems, each built around GNU and the Linux kernel. Do we call OS X a "distribution" of BSD? No, not really, it's a unique OS qith it's own quirks, and it's own top layer, and it's customised. Linux distros are no different. Most take GNU and the Linux kernel, and add a top layer of their own. That top layer may itelf be just mildly customised versions of the "standard" along with a few custom libraries and integrated applications (Mandriva, SuSE, etc...) or it may be more radical (GNUStep). Sometimes, they are even proprietary (Linspire). And they all usually customise the kernel to suit their needs, so between them even the kernel is different. They are all different competing operating systems, based around the same standards and low level components, rather than different "versions" of the same OS. For that, you need to look at the different versions within the same distro.

Yes, and they would all be named...

[Ieshan]

Yes, and it would be even more like it if all 7 the editions of Slackware Linux 10 were named:

1. Slackware Spam
2. Slackware Eggs Ham Spam
3. Slackware Spam Eggs Spam and Eggs Ham Spam
4. Slackware Spam Spam Spam Eggs Spam Ham Spam
5. Slackware Eggs Spam Spam Spam Ham Spam Spam.
6. Slackware Spam Spam Spam Spam Ham Spam Ham.
and
7. Slackware Eggs Spam and Spam Ham Spam with Eggs Ham Spam.

Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people

[Billly Gates]

I work for AOL and that reminds me of a call I monitored.

The user claimed he was running Windows56. Nothing right? Well the tech listened more to the users problem and then he claimed everything was upside down.

Turns out he had his monitor upside down and "95" turned into "56"/ :-)

God AOL users are the best.

Microsoft REALLY doesn't want my buisness...

[RexRhino]

I mean, damn. It used to be you would just purchase Windows 95. Then they had the whole XP home and XP Pro thing (with anyone with more sophisticated computer needs than my Grandmother needing XP Pro). Now there are going to be seven versions (and anyone but the most casual user is going to have to spend a grand on the highest end version?).

Never mind that this goes totally against the principles of normal economics (i.e. the more people who buy something, the less the development cost per unit... and since development cost is the only real cost for software, making less-powerful versions of the software should actually be MORE EXPENSIVE since it requires more work/testing/etc.) But I guess normal economics do not apply when you are a monopoly.

And never mind that the new OS won't run on anything but high-end machines. And will be utterly crippled with DRM and bloated with a damn 3D vector interface.

Sorry Microsoft, if I am going to buy a high-end workstation, it is going to be a mac, and everything else is going to be running Linux or FreeBSD. I probably would have continued using Windows just out of habit and so I could run my old software, but for the money I save from buying the highest end Windows OS I should be able to save more money than I would using my old software.

I mean, is Microsoft activly trying to piss as many people off as possible? I realize that they are just trying to make money, and everyone is basicly selfish... but are they actually under the delusion that consumers are going to go along with this? Is the market for the computer illiterate novice really that big that they can alienate higher end users?

I bet they will be crippled except for ultimate

[Billly Gates]

Microsoft in the past has been known to cripple its own VC++ compiler so that the best executables created will only work the the professional and enterprise editions.

My guess is the frame rates for games will be slowed down in all but the ultimate edition. It will be a classic MS strategy but I will try to be optimistic.

I dont like the fact that vista already criples video output on purpose to force you to be a drm enabled monitor.

I think I will stick with Windows2k which I use now. I do like the new avolon api and docking features. It looks alot like object desktop and the customization looks sweet but this other garbage is a big turn off.

MS Support Line

[rlp]

Hello and Welcome to the Microsoft Support Line!
If you have Windows Vista Starter Edition - Press 1
If you have Windows Vista Home Basic Edition - Press 2
If you have Windows Vista Home Premium Edition - Press 3
If you have Windows Vista Professional Edition - Press 4
If you have Windows Vista Small Business Edition - Press 5
If you have Windows Vista Enterprise Edition - Press 6
If you have Windows Vista Ultimate Edition - Press 7
If you wish to upgrade from your old and busted prior version
of Windows, please have your credit card ready and Press 8
For all other support requests, please hang up now.

You pressed 2, if you wish to upgrade to the Ultimate Edition
please have your credit card ready and Press 1, otherwise Press 2

You pressed 2, are you SURE that you don't want to upgrade to
the Ultimate Edition? If so, please have your credit card ready
and Press 1, otherwise Press 2

Sigh! You pressed 2 again, please contact your vendor and purchase
another PC with Windows Vista pre-installed. Thank you for calling
Microsoft Support Line. ** CLICK **

Since you ask

[Lifewish]

Friday. It crashed. Twice.

That's on my company's Windows 2000 desktops, so that doesn't give me grounds to complain about XP. And I haven't used XP for about two years, since it started crashing on me. So my information may be out of date.

Seven Versions!?!

[kubevubin]

Yay. I can't wait for those things to arrive at CompUSA. Now, in addition to keeping track of and stocking the many renditions of Microsoft Office, I'm now forced to keep track of seven different versions of Windows Vista? You know, I'm tempted to believe that it's impossible for Microsoft to release anything that's actually a legitimately complete product. Say what you will, but I guarantee you that Ultimate Edition will even require additional purchases for certain functionality.
You know, as much as it pains me to do so, I'm just gonna start carrying burnt Linux distros with me at work, handing them to any customer who asks about purchasing Windows.
An excerpt from the article:
One final note worth mentioning is that this strategy does remove the "corporate Windows XP" option from the hands of pirates. Volume licensing for Pro, SBE, and EE may still mean that there will be copies of Windows Vista out there that don't "call home" for Windows Product Activation, but as you can see, Microsoft has removed most of the features that most pirates would want from those OSes. You won't see corporate licensing versions of Ultimate Edition.
While I definitely agree that this is a smart idea on Microsoft's part, why even bother creating so many different versions? It's getting a little ridiculous.

Except different models of iPods are DIFFERENT

[melted]

Except different models of iPods are DIFFERENT. They aren't just the same model with different parts of it disabled in software.

Sorry, but not true.

[Kiyooka]

I just bought my first laptop in Taiwan. It's an Acer Aspire 5502WXCi. It came with Windows Home Edition in Chinese, so I popped in my Windows XP Pro in English that I use for my desktop and installed it. Everything detected. Up and running as usual. But I left an extra 20 Gb to try out linux. This is my experience so far:

Suse: The default installation hanged (sorry, don't remember what point). But I remember you could hit a button (I think F2) for an options menu. I remember the choices there were highly technical, which is to be expected of course since I'm starting to dink around. But I randomly guessed fer-the-helluvit and because I had no idea what I was doing (and I already consider myself slightly more knowledgeable than most computer users--at least I have a certificate in Comp Sci from SFU!) Anyway, I chose Custom (I think it was), and that's when excitement finally happened: it started blitzing through hardware detection, and my joy was great indeed. Then, it gave an error message, and I was booted to a linux prompt (bash I think it's called?). All I knew what to do was type -ls (yes, laugh, I'm a total linux noob). So I did. After doing that four or five times more, the novelty was gone and I tried to go online and find out what to do (there's got to be something wrong). I found out I'm supposed to type 'StartX' or something like that. I tried it, but it said there was something wrong with my video mode (wasn't supported, it explicitly said). So I
quit and tried the recently discussed Freespire edition of Linspire.

My Freespire installation seemed to go smoothly until I was presented with a login and password scenario. I thought maybe I had downloaded the wrong thing. As determined as I was, I went online to checkout what to do, and was taught I was supposed to enter "root" and login and something else as password (don't remember anymore). To be honest, I don't remember what happened after that, but it was enough to make me give up.

To be honest, I may have mixed the 2 problems up above because I don't remember exactly which errors happened to which (I know, just a week ago). The entire testing period was just a time of frustration for me. I even tried to get some of the basics online, and was baffled to be told that, while windows letters the drives, linux makes primary, secondary, etc. drives with names like '/hdav1" and "/ndev4" or some gibberish (to me) like that. And the counting would skip numbers sometimes, I believe?

The problem with your assertion is that linux is only easy to install if you're already familiar with it. But perhaps EASY TO USE should be defined to mean EASY TO LEARN HOW TO USE. Under this definition, I'm sorry my friend, but linux is therefore not easy to use.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I had to do basic research about which distros to use ("DON'T use Debian, it's not for noobs like you!", "omg installations a breeze: just make and mount drives, or make and compile, etc." -- um.. what is this "mount" thing you speak of? "how the hell do I compile an operating system itself?" etc.)

Oh yeah. For those who still give a shit, I also tried Debian, just becuase I remember reading that notebooks are not supported very well, and since Debian is supposed to be the pro's choice and the most tweakable, I figured it might have the mighty powers to save me. It might, but I'll maybe never be able to find out. It'd take me weeks just to learn everything in the introductory pages. Mother of god, like I don't already have enough stuff to read (MA in English). I guess it'd be ok if that was your passion and hobby (playing with computers is a minor passion and hobby for me), but for most people, I doubt they'd even bother googling for basic help the moment something went wrong.

Re:Sorry, but not true.

[Rolo Tomasi]

Your post finally got me an idea what my dog must be thinking when it wants outside but can't open the door.

Re:Sorry, but not true.

[adamruck]

My Freespire installation seemed to go smoothly until I was presented with a login and password scenario. I thought maybe I had downloaded the wrong thing. As determined as I was, I went online to checkout what to do, and was taught I was supposed to enter "root" and login and something else as password (don't remember anymore). To be honest, I don't remember what happened after that, but it was enough to make me give up.

Have you ever installed windows?

This is not an issue with linux being too hard. This is an issue with you not understanding how to install an operating system. Most(if not all) linux distro's ask for a root password. Lets see what windows does.

Where do I go

[Cafe Alpha]

To upgrade my Window's Vista laptop to run Windows 2000?

Rediculous OS/Hardware Evangelism

[mjh49746]

Don't you know that here on Slashdot, we're supposed to spew the dogma of 'my OS is better than your OS' or 'my hardware is better than your hardware' repeatedly at each other? What other topic can people mod as +5 Insightful when there's absolutely no insight to it whatsoever, let alone any level of cognitive thought applied to it? Yeah, XP sucks. So what? Why preach to the fucking choir about it? Matter of fact, they all suck. Badly, and for different reasons, too. (And yes, they all suck equally.)

To be blunt, people evangelizing about the issue suck the most because they have this delusional fantasy that they're going to change the world with their mindless FUD and rhettoric. They then get pissed off on the inside because their efforts to convert the masses are for naught. (like always) Then they get pissy and belligerent at all those that don't use the OS 'ordained by God Almighty' and further damage and discredit their crusade. You'd think people would've learned this a long, long time ago, but those people are closed minded and incapable of seperating the truth from their own fanaticism. Therefore, I don't think you really have to worry about their opinions. ;-)