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Statically Charged Man Ignites Office
Call Me Black Cloud writes "And you think your coworker with BO is annoying? In this story carried by Reuters, a man wearing a nylon jacket over a wool shirt built up such a static charge that he left a trail of scorched carpet and melted plastic in his wake. After he melted plastic in his car he sought help from firefighters called to the scene, who measured his static field at 40,000 volts." Obviously, despite the fact that this is carried by Reuters, you should take some of the 'facts' presented here with some NaCl.
Obviously, despite the fact that this is carried by Reuters, you should take some of the 'facts' presented here with some NaCl.
He lit up his office with a 40k static field. What the hell is salt going to do with that? Let's find out. Talk about putting salt in his wounds.
The article says this level of current is just shy of spontaneous combustion. Maybe spontaneous human combustion is a misnomer? How many people actually have scientifically studied people who have combusted, spontaneously, before? I'm thinking that since it appears to be caused by a prolonged rubbing effect, from wool sweaters rubbing against nylon jackets, and charged by static from carpets, there is nothing spontaneous about it at all, and perhaps SHC is therefore no longer a mystery?
Did we find bigfoot?
Wikipedia has a cool page about spontaneous human combustion.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Its electrifying stories like this that keep me reading slashdot.
-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ *** http://www.mountainfort.com *** +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
Eletrical Current is measued in Amps, not Volts.
That alone is enough to make me seriously doubt this whole business.
morcego
This guy could get a pretty good job as a generator in New Orleans. I don't want to know where they put the plugs though.
I'm agneglectic, too lazy to care if there is a God.
future Mythbusters in the works...
Any authoritative debunkings yet?
The entire story is laughable, but the most obvious problem is this:
Firefighters took possession of Clewer's jacket and stored it in the courtyard of the fire station, where it continued to give off a strong electrical current.
How does a statically charged jacket "give off an electric current" -- and why would firefighters take possession of it anyway? All they'd need to do to discharge it is pour a bucket of water over it.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Now I know what to buy a number of family and friends for Xmas.
Minutes of Warnambool City Council meeting:
1. Make up BS story about "static" man
2. Put Warnambool on map.
3. Tourism
4. Profit
If someone will travel to bumphuk, nowhere to see the virgin mary in someones month old pea soup, they might travel to Warnambool to meet "static man".
In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw an episode of Mythbusters that covered a similar urban legend. They were able to generate a potentially injurous amount of electricity from static but the size of the apparatus they built had to be huge to pull it off.
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
40,000 volts is only enough to generate a few microamps over a small gap in the air. Air has a huge resistance. There's no way 40,000 volts could cause that much damage. From a quick internet search, it appears even a simple van de graff generator would create over 75,000 volts, and that's fairly harmless.
The reports are also inconsistent. The AP is saying it was 30kV, Reuters is saying 40kV.
doesn't need batteries anymore for her toys.
Karma: a simple way of silencing those with unpopular views regardless how correct or just that view might be.
Just say salt, don't be so fucking pretentious.
I have a MSEE and feel like feeding the news trolls.
I put more faith in the Loch Ness Monster than this crap. Shame to see it actually in the "real" news.
1. Current is measured in amps, not volts.
2. WTF is the FIRE department doing with a volt/amp meter? Most (cheap) volt meters don't measure past 1000 volts AC/DC.
3. One or two squirts of water from a spray bottle would have completely discharged the jacket -- assuming somehow the natural humidity didn't!
4. and of course the jacket could never have built up such powerful charges as to melt and burn materials...
5. Seems unlikely that static electricity would be likely to flow *through* plastic, a *non-conductor*.
6. For the jacket to "continue" to give off an electrical current, several things must be happening:
a) There must be somewhere for it to go.
b) There must be something actively ionizing the electronics in the jacket. This requires force, external electricity, etc.
c) The "destination" of the current must also remain oppositely ionized. (Otherwise some current would flow and then things would be balanced). Maintaining the ionization of the "path to the destination" would also require external force, electricity, etc.
If it's a hoax, it's fooled a lot of people.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
http://the.standard.net.au/articles/2005/09/16/112 6750111141.html
What?
2. WTF is the FIRE department doing with a volt/amp meter? Most (cheap) volt meters don't measure past 1000 volts AC/DC.
I imagine they have to be prepared to deal with fires or other problems caused by downed powerlines, often before the electric company shows up 5 hours later.
What?
Statically charged jacket would not give off a current unless discharged. The reporter, if the story is true, was ignorantly referring to the electrical field strength (which was measured in volts in the article). Firefighters would have the meter for this because they sometimes have to find out if a downed wire is still live.
Now for the story: it's begging a lot of questions. 1) How could the jacket hold its charge after being handled? 2) How could he re-build up such a charge after discharging into the carpet? 3) How could he not notice the massive jolts he'd get touching metal furnishings or even his computer? There's a strong whiff of bs from this story.
The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
40kV isn't hard to build up. In fact, you can safely play with hundreds of kV, and make some really nice sparks. The 'starting things on fire' number you're looking for is power. And energy. You need to be able to transfer enough energy into an object that it will reach its combustion temperature, and you need to be quick enough at it that the object doesn't shed the energy to nearby objects in the meantime. It takes a lot of energy (as compared to the energy content in your average static 'zap') to set carpet fibers aflame, or even melt them.
Not to say that it didn't happen, of course. It's just not well-reported, and is clearly not terribly common.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
"We tested his clothes with a static electricity field meter and measured a current of 40,000 volts..."
;)
Last time I checked, the unit for current is Ampers, not Volts. Volts measure the potential for current, not current itself. Besides, a static feild has no current... because it's static.
Anyway, it's too bad he doesn't work on computers, I'd love to see his anti-static bracelet. I think #00 gauge welding cable would handle it.
This sig rocks the casbah.
A static electricity field meter is something firefighters bring with them? That sounds awfully suspect.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I'll still wait for the official Snopes lowdown on this one...
(How could he have gone through his day like that without touching anything metal, like a doorknob or his car door?)
Our local telephone directory service unambiguously lists the person named in the Warrnambool Standard article linked in the parent.
Maybe the knee jerk skeptics from Zonk down could back up their skepticism with some fact checking, but I guess that is asking a bit much.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
More detail here. Apparently an ABC journalist verified that there were burn marks on the carpet.
:wq
Had a special where they debunked Spontaneous Human combustion. One plausible theory seemed to be the "human wick" theory. Basicly you fall asleep smoking, the cloth/clothes around you catch fire, you are knocked unconcious by the fumes, the clothes act as a wick burning up the fat in your body, often only the legs remain due to less fat an no cloth on them (old ladies are frequent wictims to this) Also, bones burn due to the fact that a lot of the old ladies have ostoperosis.
A computer is a tool, but I am not. I use Linux
Building heating systems produce lots of warm dry air creating a static friendly environment.
I had a similar experience back in HS, the letter sweaters were made of 100% acrylic, I don't know why they were, but they were. At the end of every day it was go down to the locker room and take the sweater off, the popping sound was very audible, and discharge by grabing the door or hit some random freshman walking by.
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
A Van De Graaf generator is basically a band of insulating material being rotated in a tower with some means of transferring a charge to it. There are relatively cheap desktop and home models that'll produce nearly half a million volts. Schools use such devices all the time, so if the fireman hasn't seem a voltage that high, he skipped classes.
Having said that, early atom-smashers used Van De Graaf generators only capable of producing five million or so volts. It seems reasonable to suspect something will burn before it is blasted out of existence. So, somewhere between 400,000 volts and 5,000,000 volts, you might be able to ignite something.
However, here we get a problem. You can't just carry around half a million volts and not notice it. Your hair tends to stand on end, for a start. ANYTHING metal - even a doorknob - will cause a discharge to occur. Getting into his car certainly would have - even if the car were carbin-fiber, the key would be metal and the distance short enough for an arc to occur.
There's also the problem of where you lodge a charge that great. A capacitor is basically two electrostatic devices with an insulator between them. In this case, the insulator would be the shoes, and the electrostatic device the person. I'll assume there are enough nails holding the carpet down to act as the other electrostatic device.
But what is the capacitance of a person? The figure I've been able to get with a Google search is an average of 204 pF with a typical range of 95 to 398 pF. (It varies according to height and weight, so a seven-foot sumo wrestler might have a higher capacitance than this range shows.)
In other words, not really what you'd need to carry half a million volts around. The jacket would have carried more, but unless it was made of Tantallum or some other material with very high capacitance, I doubt you'd be able to store enough charge to start setting things on fire.
In other words, there is nothing credible about the story. The voltages are abnormally low for a static device and way too low to actually do any fire damage, there's nowhere a higher charge could have been stored and there would have been too many points at which positively violent arcing would have occurred if it had been stored.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...wearing a woolen shirt and a synthetic nylon jacket...
As opposed to a natural nylon jacket, made from the finest virgin Icelandic nylon harvested from the nests of shore birds.
I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
OK... this is a nonsense story. 40 kV is voltage, not current. You can build up 40 kV every time you walk on a nylon carpet, or you rub against a cat's skin. We have all had sparks pass between our hand and our keyboard we sit down, or with the wall when we have had rubber shoes on.
(Tip: this is annoying, but just touch the wall with a key and you'll not feel the spark.)
Voltage is not dangerous "unless". To spark a fire you need not just voltage, but current as well. A 30 kV spark discharge from your hand at 0.1 uA (micro-ampere) would do a lot less harm than a 30 kV powerline at 100 Amps (the latter would incinerate you instantly).
To set a carpet on fire you would need quite a lot of current. If this carpet was set on fire by a shirt (how, by the way: was he rubbing his chest on the floor?), then it was a weird carpet fire waiting to happen anyway.
But of course this makes a cute story to fill an otherwise empty page. Myths always do.
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BDOS ERR ON A:>
Just to amplify your comment, most (cheap) volt meters have too low a resistance to measure potential on a tiny capacitor, such as a human body (~250 pF), because the voltmeter would discharge the capacitor before it could get a reading.
Someone else replied about measuring downed power lines, but that would: (a) not require a voltmeter to read over 1000 volts and (b) not require an ultra-high-impedance static-charge electrometer.
BTW, let's do the numbers: 40,000 volts across a 250 pF capacitor would have potential energy of 1/2 CV^2 = 0.2 Joules. If you think that 0.2 Joules is enough energy to melt macroscopic amounts of plastic or burn carpet, much less almost enough to incinerate a human body, I have a hot investment tip for you.
Thats what they get for taking the man's stapler. :P
..becuase most of us outside AU haven't heard of Warrnambool, but we have heard of sydney.
If you read the news around here, *everything* that happens in AU happens in sydney.
The Reuters article is a particularly bad piece of journalism though.. confusing volts and amps, inserting the 'rubbing clouds' quote, and even getting the facts wrong (it was 30kv not 40kv).
Note that the original story, not the ignorant rewrite on rueters mentions only 30,000 volts and a mention of amps at the end. And in Australia, they are in late winter, this being the southern hemisphere.
So plenty of potential for walking leyden jars. Obviously this all is unpossible. Modern science tells us so.
Original Story
Freak static
By SARAH SCOPELIANOS
September 16, 2005
A DENNINGTON man was none the worse for wear yesterday despite having 30,000 volts running through his clothes.
Warrnambool firefighters were baffled after Dennington cleaner Frank Clewer unintentionally caused three Koroit Street buildings to be evacuated.
Last night fire officers said they remained puzzled about the incident in which carpet was scorched where Mr Clewer had walked.
Mr Clewer, 58, was jovial about his fiery experience but said the circumstances were hard to believe.
Soon to be made redundant from Nestle, he had arrived for a job interview that never quiet started.
He could only chuckle about the events which led to firefighters stripping him of his clothes and finding 30,000 volts running through his synthetic jacket.
"My wife has told me I'm not allowed to put on the electric blanket tonight and I'm going to have to lay off the surfing because I'll stun the sharks and we'll have fried flake in the bay," he laughed.
Fire crews were called to Karingal's office yesterday after staff heard loud cracking sounds and noticed the carpet was burnt in several places.
The "seriously weird" events began when Mr Clewer was standing at the office front counter when he heard a "mighty crack" before being led into a room to begin an interview for a carer's job.
Then staff noticed burn marks the size of ten cent pieces on the carpet and called the fire brigade.
Fire officers' investigations included removing carpet and evacuating surrounding buildings.
Mr Clewer spoke with them for about 20 minutes then went to the bank and a surf store before returning to his car at the Ozone car park.
There he found that a plastic bag used to protect his seat from water after surfing was badly charred beneath his feet.
Thinking staff at Karingal were experiencing the same "strange" happenings, which included electric zapping sounds, he returned to the Koroit Street building to consult fire officers.
"I was talking to them and I let out a crack. It is all too bizarre...and when I was getting inside my car after giving them my name and phone number, I let out another almighty crack and it was heard inside the building by the fire officers and inside the ABC studio."
Mr Clewer was given overalls to wear as fire officers used a device to check static electricity on him and his belongings.
The device measured a remarkable 30,000 volts on a synthetic zip-up jacket Mr Clewer had been wearing under a woollen jacket.
His jeans had a small burn at the knee.
Warrnambool fire officer Trevor Roberts said officers were baffled.
"We called Powercor, an electrician, and spoke to a technician from the ABC."
He said Mr Clewer's clothes were at no stage dangerous because they were low in amps which could be deadly.
This story was found at:
http://the.standard.net.au/articles/2005/09/16/112 6750111141.html
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"