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Wild Gorillas Impress With Their Tools
fatgav writes "The BBC is running an article about wild gorillas being seen to use tools in the wild. It is especially significant as not only have Gorillas never been seen to use tools, but they have been using them in a way unlike other great apes. From the article: 'The most astonishing thing is that we have observed them using tools not for obtaining food, but for postural support.' The scientists are getting excited as it can help to explain questions as to how the most advanced great ape (us) came to evolve."
Are we any closer to explaining this:
http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg.
And yet they say "Intelligent Design" isn't a falsifiable theory...
Let's just hope they never evolve to the level where they take up arms and declare war against us. Our record in Gorilla warfare hasn't been so stellar.
I thought Gorillas had relatively small "tools" compared to their human counterparts. Certainly nothing much to impress with.
Human tools are bigger than gorilla tools... I mean, that's what makes us "great" apes right? (That and out ability to make puns at the drop of a hat!)
Hahaha, hey, 769 BC called, they want their myths and lengends they pulled out of their ass back!!!
"It is especially significant as not only have Gorillas never been seen to use tools, but they have been using them in a way unlike other great apes." TFA doesn't seem to mention differences in their use of tools, just that they haven't been seen before.
Such the wrong impression from that title. My mind is way too low right now.
My teacher says it proves all answers are in the Bible and that science nowdays is work of the devil. If you believe in science you're a fool. I pray for your souls.
Not a big deal, we already control the gorillas' habitats.
Now when the dolphins grow opposable thumbs, then we're screwed.
Check here for some examples of tool usage in the other great ape families (primarily chimpanzees).
I have seen baboons open doors, open garbage cans, whack things with sticks, whack shellfish with rocks - and baboons are held to be less intelligent than other great apes.
Oh well, what the hell...
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who saw that in the headline.
For a second I thought I was still looking at Fark; double-entendre headlines are usually their thing.
Addendum: See also for videos and other examples of chimpanzee tool usage.
See these WILD gorillas use their tools in ways never seen before! Order now and get "Gorillas Gone Wild: Spring Break Edition." A new tape sent every month, cancel any time!
Wild Gorillas Impress With Their Tools... oh my, they do.
(Seriously, this is from a real book)
Excerpt From "Gorillas among Us: A Primate Ethnographer's Book of Days"
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
Maybe they saw humans (or some other 'higher' ape) using tools? I dunno, it's a possibility, right?
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
And they are such showoffs about it. I was invited over to the zoo last weekend by a gorilla. He was chugging the beers when he suddenly decided to take me to the tool shed to show me the new bandsaw he bought the day before.
:(
From t-squares to circular saws, that ape had it all. I'm envious
Advice for my fellow geeks: before seeking out that threesome you dream of, you might see what a TWOsome is like first.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
Gorilla testicles are incredibly small relative to the size of their body (according to Bullshit)
I can't find the article in Google now, but I remember about 5 years ago reading about ape tribes exhibiting "written language" behavior. As I recall, apes would set out from their tribe's collective sleeping place to find food in nearby forest. After they found some, they'd return, breaking twigs along their path. Other apes in their tribe could follow the "signs" back to the food later. But apes of other tribes couldn't recognize the signs. The apes apparently learned to interpret the signs in their own tribal language, but not others.
Now they're seen using walking sticks. Perhaps we'll find that apes use the sticks in different styles, and that some styles are learned by watching other apes. What would we look for to discover that some of that learning is derived from the marks made by the sticks, rather than watching a stick-using ape "in person"? If we found those records, would we have discovered "ape fashion magazines"?
--
make install -not war
That is pretty darned impressive. Most I ever managed (loooong ago in my youth) was 6 or 7 times. That must have been some come-hither look she was giving him!
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Really now, slashdot. I'm ashamed. You call yourselves technophiles? My buddies and I were on 'the scene' of these new technologies 6,000 years ago! Honestly!
Humans are apes.
Sheesh. How could we evolve from ourselves?
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Next comes Planet of the Apes
Where do I sign up for these jobs?
I for one welcome your guerrilla underwear.
"We're millions of miles from earth, inside a giant white face, what's impossible?"
I thought it's been well known for years that gorillas use tools. You don't think they've typing all that spam by hand do you?
I read Usenet for the articles.
From the article: 'The most astonishing thing is that we have observed them using tools not for obtaining food, but for postural support.'
Sure, because being simple souls, they get all of the flown-in pasta they can pray for. And of course, Postural Support is exactly the sort of thing that you'd expect from a Creator that really understands what it's like to have only Noodly Appendages.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
rob schneider is no baboon!
You know, the next time I hear pure unadulterated bullshit defended under the banner of "diversity" I think I'm going to scream. The evidence, all the evidence mind you, points to gorillas and humans sharing a common ancestor. In particular, the molecular evidence pretty much makes it an open and shut case, and the fact that a few guys have buried their heads in the sand so deep that they are actually willing to deny reality is simply an indication that at least gorillas, unlike humans, don't deny their environment.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
there is no most here. does anyone understand that? Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it just is. To say "we are the most advanced" is exactly the same as saying "in our opinion we are the most advanced" and since presumably no other animal can respond to us in our language, the ayes have it. It's still total hogwash though. to say "most advanced" can't be applied unless there are qualifiers. For instance "humans are the most advanced animals because we birth the heartiest young" or how about "humans are the most advanced because we have the most sophisticated perceptual awareness" or "humans are the most advanced because we are the most peaceful."
When people say stupid shit that's obviously stupid, I post anonymously to not pollute the +1 posts. If I could post at 0 under my name I would. And fear isn't something I generally associate with a fucking website; not sure what sad world you're living in. Also nice to tear into people without being PC occasionally (not as if it matters, I have a 5 digit UID and excellent karma since, oh, 4 years ago).
/. is opinions, glad you picked that tricky one up, but there's also a "flamebait" modifier for a reason.
The fact is, it might have been relevant to the story, but it was delivered as flamebait. It's really not too tough to grasp.
Now quit your bitching.
Well, not to offend those who place great faith in the omnicient Flying Spagetti Monster.
But is it possible that we are unique because we were genetically engineered by an intelligent alien race? Maybe despite evolution, humans had a little help, and what if... What if the evolutionary process is reversed? What if the monkeys are genetic mutations of us? or Continued experimentation by our hypothetical space brothers and sisters derived from human genetics, and not the reverse, as is commonly believed?
I'm not saying I know, or have proof. Just here's another angle to contemplate.
So, gorillas (and other primates) use tools. BFD. Elephants use tools. Spiders can make tools. Dolphins can be trained to use tools. Pretty much any animal with a limited set of natural tools suited to their environment can learn how to use tools.
I'm not sure I see what the big deal is, as this doesn't "prove" anything.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Murdoc & Noodle do OK with their axes - dunno if you give Russel credit (are drumsticks tools?) but 2D's certainly learned to make the best with what he's lost...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Twice in ten years they see gorillas using tools. I think random chance could account for that better than saying that gorillas regularly use tools. Also, why is it that the great apes are special? I think it's actually much more plausible that we share an ancestor with a bird, rather than great apes. At least, I'd like it to be that way. Then I'd realize I don't actually have arms and hands, but wings! Yay!
Apes crap out seeds of the plants they prefer to eat, thereby modifying their environment to suit themselves, too. We're not that good at what we humans do, just better than the other animals. We get to name them, but they don't answer to our names. They probably think we're "dumb beasts", in our own way, and they're probably as right as we are about them.
--
make install -not war
That poor gorilla. That bitch wouldn't even let him eat!
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
"That must have been some come-hither look she was giving him!"
That wasn't a "come hither" look. That was a "Are you done already? Don't you dare roll over and fall asleep until I've had an orgasm".
You forgot the 1 comment wishing for a beowulf cluster of tool-using gorillas.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
"Oh shit, there goes the planet"
"'Advanced'? How are we more advanced?"
We could eliminate them if we chose, and we can plan ahead to avoid disasters or to bend nature to our will in ways that they can't, at the moment, come close to imagining.
If we were thrown back to the "ape's forest", some of us would survive, and civilization would rebuild itself to its current level long before apes had managed to advance significantly.
Well, since he didn't really make any argument beyond saying that the article was wrong, and did so in an incredibly blunt manner, it's a flame at best. At worst, a troll targeting a (largely) atheistic/agnostic audience. If he'd said something more like "Well, you're assuming evolution is more than a theory..." there'd be some validity to your claim. (and, admittedly, you'd probably still be making it, because an offended atheist/agnostic would have modded his post down anyway)
Props to the great apes, they continue to impress... as do the author's of Slashdot article titles.
Not that I would download a newsgroup post with this title, or anything...
[Wild Gorillas Impress With Their Tools... oh my, they do.] The average gorilla is about 1.5 inches *erect*. So, no... no they don't.
We big? No wonder humans had to learn to walk upright
Table-ized A.I.
Where the heck do you live where racoons grow to 5 feet and 300 lbs?! Amazing.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Evolution? Pssssh. Everyone knows we were created by the flying spaghetti monster.
Wild Gorillas Impress With Their Tools
The Internet is just full of sickos, isn't it.
The interesting thing about gorillas is that they make tools quite readily in captivity, but hadn't yet been observed to use them in the wild. This would imply that their toolmaking facility was not actually a product of adaptation for toolmaking in their natural habitat.
We could entertain a couple of hypotheses about this. Perhaps all apes share a common toolmaking ability shared from our common ancestors, which now is used in some lineages (humans, chimpanzees) but not extensively in others (gorillas). Or, which I think more likely, ape tool use draws upon other cognitive adaptations that are related to social learning and interactions, and actually using tools is a sometimes-beneficial side effect.
In a related story this week, a group of experimenters found that chimpanzee social learning involves imitation of the techniques observed from other individuals, instead of merely copying the goals of those individuals. Chimps are conformists, in other words.
From my weblog:
The results showed that even when the chimpanzees experimented with the apparatus themselves and learned both ways to get the food, they still tended to adopt the method that predominated in their group. I would guess that this trend toward learning the techniques in the group is important for learning social roles and interactions with other individuals.
--JohnThirty three times and he still wouldn't give her a bite of his celery... Meanwhile, somewhere among the hairless apes, there is a male who has taken a female to dinner thirty three times and never even gotten to second base. Proof that the universe is in perfect balance.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Note that these findings are published in the freely available, creative commons licensed journal PLoS Biology:
http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?requestEntire issues are offered as beautiful PDFs. From the PLoS site http://www.plosjournals.org/:
Hell yeah, a racoon of that size would indeed be more scary than a baboon.
Oh well, what the hell...
You have to admit the gorilla using a stick to determine the depth of water was impressive. Plenty of animals use tools, but how many use tools to make measurements?
Birds routinely use tools as do monkeys. No wonder mountain gorillas are almost extinct.
... impresses with their tools.
I thought this read "impresses with their stools", in some sort of poo flinging match to the death.
I have seen Gorrillas using Apple!.... Opps they were actually eating it...
Ever see an incredible beautiful girl, who is also extremely smart and has a great sense of humor. That were hopefully we are evolving to.
That or we will become a creature with an ass shaped like a lazy boy, and develop a secondary finger like feature on our hands that allows us to grasp a beer can while still able to use our fingers to work a remote.
Hes acting as if evolution isn't what most people on this site would believe. But i'll bet you dollars to donuts that in reality he KNOWS what the average slashdotter believes. Therefore he is purposely stating his opinion that will make it flamebait. Dont blame the mod, blame the guy who made the comment with such "confidence".
Yeah... I'll admit that this is the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw that headline. My poor filthy mind.
well I for one welcome our new ape overlords.
I hope creationists read this and learn something from it, so that they stop confusing young minds.
Creativity uninhibited www.kreeti.com
There is a big difference between being "open minded" and being willing to accept a vague theory based on nothing but a set of very old manuscripts.
Let's blow some Karma!
:).
To all the people who will be offended by the following, remember, if you read it and can understand it YOU ARE NOT A GORILLA and it doesn't apply to you. If you go and translate this into simplified sign language for Koko I am going to be somewhat upset at you and I really don't care what Koko thinks just as long as you are the one who pays for her bananas.
Yipppppppeeee! Now we can grant Gorillas human rights because the only thing that seperates humans from pond scum is that we are cute and that we use tools!!!! Kittens and Puppies are cute so we grant them half human rights, meaning that we don't eat them (Don't tell the Koreans or the Chinese about the not eating doggies thing they might get pissed). Mice are not cute so we can use them for scientific experiments! Gorillas are cute and use tools so we have to give them human rights! Now that we gave them human rights we have to come up with a politically correct name for Gorillas, I think Gorilla is too speciesist. Why don't we call them differently evolved intelligences (DEI). Next week we can sign the Americans with DEI act which requires that all jobs must offer free bananas and not discriminate based on your type of intelligence and that the only requirement for getting a job is that your species has been proven to use tools! We can register them to vote and use hand signals to teach them which party will offer them more bananas. One grunt is Republican, two grunts is Democrat, Eating a banana and/or parading around with an erection while female gorillas are present is considered a green party vote. Next we can pass the DEI human marriage act, give them gorilla reservations and pay them reperations in Bananas, to make amends for the 100s of years that the inhabitants of Sub-Saharan Africa have been hunting and eating them.
Remember folks. The above does not apply to you. YOU ARE NOT A GORILLA! If you think you are a gorilla please seek mental help immediately.
But seriously folks, Just say NO to bad memes like
deep ecology. Humans are special
The three most important words in a relationship are "I love you." The two most important are "Humor me."
Read the sig.
-- You're too stupid to be an atheist.
There are aliens staring at footage of us and saying things precisely along the lines of this article.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Therefore he is purposely stating his opinion that will make it flamebait.
/.ers.
Wait... lemme get this straight. You're saying that stating an opinion that is assumed to be counter to the opinions of the majority is legitimate grounds for being modded as Flamebait? In other words, it's perfectly fine for a moderator to use mod points to shut out opinions with which he/she disagrees, or believes will offend the sensibilities of most
You, sir, are a tard. That is not how the Flamebait moderation is defined. It was, however, used in the proper manner in this case, only not for the reasons you seem to believe (or more accurately, would like to believe). That's like saying "don't you dare post here if you disagree with us!"
This is an open forum. Anyone may join and contribute to the discussions as long as they behave themselves. Intelligent debates are encouraged. This means that you will occasionally be exposed to opinions with which you strongly disagree. If you don't like it, you're just as free to post a counter-argument. Attack the argument, not the person.
They use chairs as a tool. An alpha male will throw a chair at a beta male leaving for another tribe.
That last sentence... is he talking about the celery?
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
Everyday he jumps the fence, comes into the garden, digs a hole and has a pi55 in it. So what's that got to do with this thread? He uses my shovel!
<lol>
I want to meet the guy who invented beer and see whats he's up to now.
Especially ravens. They not only use tools, they also build and enhance them. According to the german "Welt am Sonntag", crows even have an idea of the material they use. This makes them even more efficient than chimps.
Impress who?
A walking stick? Pffft. I can use a walking stick.
the article doesn't talk about 'posturing' as in showing off,
but about 'postural support' as in crutches.
The world isn't ready yet for geek gorrillas.
Ever see an incredible beautiful girl, who is also extremely smart and has a great sense of humor. That were hopefully we are evolving to.
Admit it, you're saying this only because you would liked to have been born an Elf instead of this silly HumanMan is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
What if years pass and gorillas [or other primates] become more advanced, developing hunting weapons; gathering into groups and building sheds, then simple houses; meanwhile they master fire; and so on.
:-)
In other words, what if something speeds up their evolution process, and we - humans realize that if they keep it that way, they will 'step on our territory'. What will our actions B?
[a] Eliminate them right away
[b] Cooperate with them by helping them build more reliable huts, more efficient tools
[c] Ignore them
* who gives us the right to go for [a]?
* what is the ultimate goal of [b]? If we do that, they WILL step on our territory, ask for more, etc... If we do that just for fun, so that our kids can see some 'cool stuff', then why not just go for [a]?
* taking the [c] approach means that we have no possibility to influence the outcome. So certainly, ignoring this 'civilization' is not an option.
And one more thing, it is obvious that the apes won't start breaking our doors, taking the keyboard away in order to check their email or open our fridges to get some food... So they're not _our_ competitors. On the other hand, I believe pigmeys and other primitive tribes will see a problem with that.
So let me reformulate: How will the react if apes get more advanced?
Let the extrapolation begin!
The saddest poem
At the end of the day he came inside and passed out with that sorry wilted stalk still clenched in his fist
damn, after all that he still wanted more!
I'm a rabbit startled by the headlights of life
Has been the black monolith found?
I have OT karma to spend on my ego.
9 is my all time in one day. I was 19.
When we woke up the next day and she was leaving to go home she said g'bye and I started singing 'LIKE A VIRRRGIN...TOUCHED FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME'
What? It seemed appropriate.
sorry wilted stalk still clenched in his fist
I bet he did!!
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
...walking sticks are for old gorillas.
I've seen film footage of a bird manipulating a piece of wire to create a custom tool which the bird then used to solve a problem. Near as I can tell and from what I've seen some birds are smarter than Gorillas. But then I guess you don't see too many Gorillas smashing into plate glass windows at 30 MPH either. m
I would have thought the recent events in the USA (Katrina) and Asia (Tsunami) over the last 12 months would be more than enough proof that we humans aren't that flash at predicting/preventing disasters
The original poster is correct, stick a typical human in a gorilla's natural environment and they're screwed.
This is just another example of the extreme activist scientists pushing their satanic lies of "evolution" down our throats. You see an ape with a stick and you think evolution? HELLO PEOPLE! God made the world in 7 DAYS! God made MAN. God made APES. APES did NOT make MAN!!!
You need to crack open your Holy Bible and repent for this transgression against God almighty! It is through HIS Intelligent Design of the world that you exist!!!
ramen brother, ramen.
(The article is appropriately titled -- "Monkeys Pay to See Female Monkey Bottoms")
In the instance described above, it sounds like the female wanted to ensure that she got the little bit of sperm that the dominant male was producing, and that no other female got it.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
We have little more proof of creation by an omnipotent being (the same kind of proof that indicates Julius Caesar, Socrates, and Hammurabi existed) than in creation by an alien race. Unless of course, you ask a Mormon ...
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Luckily, the original poster's opinion had nothing to do with science!
BenCurry.net
Sorry, but the analogy doesn't work. It should be: it's easier to convince a KKK member to love blacks than it is to convince an atheist to love religous folk...which is plainly false. The issue around this type of opinion (Intelligent Design, etc.) is that Slashdot is a supposedly sci/tech website. This is a sci/tech-related article and to bring up a viewpoint which is religious (as intelligent design is..heed not those who tell you it's scientific) is, indeed, flamebait. I have my own beliefs that exist independently of science and if an article is posted where it could be considered warranted, I will feel no hesitation to enlighten you with them. ;)
BenCurry.net
Omfg, I was waiting for a call (working at a tech-support call center), and right when I opened that and started laughing histerically, a call came in. Poor customer had no idea what the hell was going on...
Me: "Uh.. *mute*HAHAHAHA*unmute* Thank... Thank you.. hehe.. for*mute*HAHAHAHAHA*unmute* calling... the... *mute*"...
Nobody's gay for Mole-Man.
I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
Its not BECAUSE of his opinion, its fine to state your opinion. But stating your opinion in a manner that's surely going to garner FLAMING? In a manner that's asking for flames? That's flamebait.
The guy clearly knew he was gonna get flamed for stating it in that manner.
...scientific observer types, was the 'tool', they expected to see a rock used as a hammer, or something similar... so when the gorilla busted out a Black & Decker cordless drill, and then changed the friggin' bit on it, well, you can imagine the astonishment, eh? The Creationists responsible for 'spin', or 'new' science, have their work cut out for them, no doubt about it.
The post I was replying to was talking about how close-minded atheists are, because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of god.
The religion as a such (every religion, not only the currently most widely spread ones) is, at best, a vague theory, based on some old tales, which eventually got written down. Today, all religions that I know of have some sorts of such presumeably old manuscripts, describing its' fundamentals. In the case of Christianity, those manuscripts eventually got printed in a book called "The Bible", which is since being printed and distributed around the world, mainly to the poor and uneducated, for fun and for (great) profit.
Please note that I explicitely said manuscripts, not documents. A manuscript can be just about anything - a fairytale, a technical paper, or, for example, a musical composition.
If your religious feelings were hurt by my post, then say so, and I'll apology for my choice of words. No need to try to twist and ridicule my article instead by putting arbitrary parts of it in quotes ("vague"), adding adjectives I never used and then also quoting them ("historical"), and replacing some of my words by another (manuscripts vs. documents)
Honestly, I don't care.
But when a rumor was floating around in my family that I was a bad lover (I know, weird family, was caused by a pedantic friend) and I told them of my 9 times conquest they were stunned.
So the fact that you don't believe me over the Internet doesn't suprise me at all.
Either way, I had fun.