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Dapper Drake Hits Ubuntu Servers
linuxbeta writes "Ubuntu 6.04 (Dapper Drake) daily builds have hit the Ubuntu servers. Dapper's goals: Substantial polish and integration, software discovery and installation, make network-wide enterprise updates easy to manage, consider LSB and related certification standards and support for deployment of Dapper on mission-critical servers. Screenshots have already surfaced."
I sure hope that they've fixed the VIA C3 bug that was present on the last distribution, 'Breezy Badger'. I tried installing it on an 800MHz C3 system and it was unstable to the point of being unusable. I can't remember the exact details, something about the C3 missing one of the Pentium instructions.
Ed Almos
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Is it just me, or do the screenshots not really show anything new? I mean Ubuntu is cool and all, but these are just screenshots of Ubuntu, and does not even include the new enterprise management stuff.
OK, I see a new installer has been released. Any word on how it compares to other installers? It looks pretty much like the Debian installer, and the (gulp) RedHat installation has been pretty easy for some time.
What's the "killer feature" for this installer?
What are you eating? isItVeg?.
I hate the Drake!
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
I tried installing Ubuntu PPC on my Opteron machine. It was sooooo unstable! I can't remember the exact details, something about the Opteron missing some of the PowerPC instructions.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Speaking of the look of Ubuntu, why do we always get screenshots in these things? Right now, Dapper looks like Breezy. Which looks like... Gnome with a brown theme.
I care, and since it's posted here, there are probably others as well. Don't like it, don't read it.
I enjoy getting info on Linux distros on Slashdot, their updates etc. It sure as hell beats having 2000 Google stories and 5 "infomercials" for some dude looking for money to fund some science project. If you're tired of these submissions, just choose to ignore Linux threads in your preferences page.
If you don't like GNOME, like myself and many others, feel free to try Kubuntu. It offers all the goodness of Ubuntu, but replaces GNOME with KDE.
Of course, you can still install and use GNOME software, although I don't know why you'd want to do that when you've got the power of KDE available to you.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I don't really see the point of screenshots or reviews at this time. It's way too early for it to have changed much - visually - (if at all) since Breezy.
Or is real Debian too stupid for regular people to run?
What's the point of even looking at Dapper now, when there is still 5 more months of development?
Actually, many of the more advanced developers are switching to Ubuntu because it does offer all the power of Debian, while also being more up-to-date and developed quicker.
It allows serious developers to focus on programming and software design, rather than painstakingly maintaining their computer system(s). After all, productivity is a must these days, and Ubuntu does much to increase it.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I like Gnome much more that KDE and I think it looks much better, just the default Ubuntu theme is horrible.
Don't blame the screenshots. After all, they do just show GNOME. GNOME is a very small part of Ubuntu. Many Ubuntu users even choose to ditch GNOME in favour of KDE (thus Kubuntu).
The main thing to focus on is the fantastic package management system, the up-to-date packages, and the overall integration of the system. It's a distro that just works, and that is exactly what a busy user needs.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I'm excited to hear about a new release of my current favorite desktop linux distro. However, can the brown default theme please die? I realize that the goal of Ubuntu is "linux for human beings", and utilizing what appears to be human skin tones for a theme is an interesting idea, but it just doesn't work. Look at some well designed color schemes, like OS X's Aqua, or even... (don't shoot me please!) Windows XP's Luna. They both utilize neutral grays, a lot of blue, and other primary colors. That much brown just doesn't work.
No, all the ugly brown is the theme, Gnome looks very nice and clean with Clearlooks theme.
You can view KDE being the same as last week, if that's the way you swing.
Indeed. It will be quite interesting to see if Red Hat and Novell/SuSE will be able to match the momentum of Ubuntu/Kubuntu.
I know many people who have become disenchanted with the Red Hat and SuSE distros. While they were near, if not at, the top of the game once, they may not remain there much longer.
I'm aware of a number of people, myself included, who gave Fedora Core a try. And frankly, we were not impressed. I had the installer crash on me, and the others I talked with ran into a multitude of other problems. They were simple problems that shouldn't exist in a modern distro.
Meanwhile, there's all the nonsense with Novell/SuSE switching SuSE to GNOME. SuSE has been a KDE-based distro for years, and it has worked very well. As a former fan of SuSE, I do not think I'll bother buying their products if they go with GNOME as their default desktop, rather than KDE.
Some of the people I know went back to Slackware, others to Debian, and myself to Kubuntu. Until Red Hat and Novell/SuSE get their acts together, Ubuntu/Kubuntu may very well have a strong future.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Glad to hear it. I love Ubuntu. In my experience, it's the easiest and most reliable Linux distro to setup and maintain. Apt is great, and Synaptic makes it easy. A lot of things are just done the right way.
However, being a new distro, it's lacked a little polish here and there. Nothing big, but just the sort of thing where, if I were to set my parents up on a Linux machine, I'd be more confident in the presentation that SuSE or Fedora provide. I'd be really confident that Ubuntu would work correctly, and it might be my choice of distros for that reason, but I'd be more confident that Fedora would *look* like a professionally-created OS.
So I think polish is a good place to focus right now.
How hard is it to change? Two levels down, IIRC, and you don't have to click apply, unlike on my XP machine. The brown theme is minimalist, it's earthy, and it's a *really* welcome change from the stupid industrial blue/grey offend no-one look of a corporate release.
To reply to another post, the XP Blue theme sucks big time, but the Energy Blue one, which comes as default (I believe) with Media Center, is rather easy on the eyes. However, I really, would NOT mind a Gnome themed desktop, and if I could use it without the need for a stupid hack like WindowsBlinds/ThemeXP/whateverthefuck, I would.
I really don't know why there is such a big fuss. Change it if you like. Use Kubuntu.
Sheesh.
They are squandering all these excellent release names too quickly.
Look at the years of wear that Microsoft got from Chicago, Cairo, Longhorn and now, Vista! That, my friends, is real marketing.
Slow down, you crazy Ubuntu cowboys!
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
As a former fan of SuSE, I do not think I'll bother buying their products if they go with GNOME as their default desktop, rather than KDE.
Well, and as a former fan of RedHat and Ubuntu, I think I may be installing SuSE as my primary system. SuSE has been a great distro, except for shipping with KDE as its default desktop.
(I have debian stable for servers, breezy for family desktops, and will soon be bughunting dapper on my own desktop)
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Bump.
This is very true. I know a lot of very smart people moving to Macs because "everything just works".
I'm not quite ready to pay the Mac tax yet... Kubuntu gets me a heck of a lot closer than RH or any other distro I've used.
Agile Artisans
The debian is good and the Ubuntu wipes top polish on it. I uses the kubuntu for KDE and additionallys the SUSE for KDE. SUSE removes linux terminal fears which myself are easely impressive!
Kim Su-yeong
I recently switched to use ubuntu in my desktops (from gentoo). It's been mostly painless but there are gotchas with breezy 5.10.
Multimedia support is close to non existant. I have source installed mplayer, dvd::rip and avidemux (And a few libraries they depend on). That brought multimedia up to par with my gentoo install altough much more hassle than gentoo.
Default kernel is non preemptible which just sucks if you like me do some heavy multitasking. It's not unusual for me to have 5 mencoders or a couple of compiles going and without preemptible kernel the system is close to non responsive, the problems show up even if you only encode one movie. A kernel compile fixes the problems but some people probably don't want to recompile the kernel (Or have the skill to do so).
Default firefox is slow. For some reason the default firefox is amazingly slugish. I downloaded a new from mozilla.org and problem is fixed. Still annoying.
Gentoo has amazinlgy good documentation. Not something against ubuntu but coming from Gentoo it's a big loss.
Main reason for switching was getting a reasonably new gnome desktop with good package stability. With gentoo you have a too much of a moving system with new releases of packages way too often and too inconsistently. So far ubuntu has been great in that regard.
All in all it's one of the best desktop distros right now.
"Ubuntu" is an ancient African word, meaning "humanity to others". Ubuntu also means "I am what I am because of who we all are."
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Anyway, Ubuntu is a really great distro. I've moved from Debian to Mandrake (now Mandriva) becouse of outdated packages needed for a workstation
I've been waiting for a distro to embrace ponzca, piwa, polka and kielbasa for some time now. I can't wait to hear the new startup music-- it's been lacking a little Polish too long for my tastes. Ubuntu rocks!
anyone know of a screen bug un Breezy? one where after a long period of inactivity the screen won't come back up?
On Drake (sorta):
read thru the few comments here so far... If you don't like Gnome then use Kubuntu or even just add KDE and have a choice. This is not an isse of the distro, but of you personal choice. Same applies to the theme. If you don't like it then stop being lazy and change it.... Jeez. maybe we need a tutorial added to it to teach people that they can do this and how...(rolls eyes)
Reading about the goals of Drake, I get this feeling that out of the linux development evolution there is comming a time when companies, such as MS, just don't have the dev bandwidth to compete or even keep up. And it seem this will happen well within ten years.
At such a time, where do we then go? What is the next stepping stone towards completely free software? (where software won't be genunily free until it is easy enough to create or cause the computer to create it for you at your direction, like the results of using a claculator to get a free for you result)...... the building of user friendly dev interfaces?
Well hey, it's OSDir!
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave us daily screenshots of every daily Ubuntu Dapper build.
system setting > keyboard layout (?)> X Enable
or the terminals (in exampels): setxkbmap -model inspiron -layout koKim Su-yeong
I just received my Breezy Badger CDs via snailmail today, and Dapper Drake's already available? Great, just great.
While I also find KDE translations more accurate and concise, this advantage is IMHO negated by overall clutter that currently exists in KDE. Just look at Settings menu: a zillion of options beginning with the word "Configure"...
:-)
Yes, this is offtopic
I would be more than willing to use GNOME, but many improvements would need to be made. That does not appear to be happening. That could be because they're unaware of the major problems with their product. I will alert them, as well as potential users, to such problems.
Indeed, you are correct. The GNOME file selector used by Firefox 1.0.7 is quite terrible. It isn't as intuitive as the file selectors offered by KDE, Mac OS X and even Windows. But more importantly, it doesn't offer any additional benefit to account for the lack of intuitiveness.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
After Warty Warthog, no versions of Ubuntu have worked with my laptop. They install but the graphics are corrupted. I discovered this is because of the migration from xfree86 to xorg. I thought I would have to cling to Warty forever when I discovered that Debian still supports xfree86. In fact, after I installed Debian I was like "wait a minute, I knew Ubuntu was based on Debian but this is ridiculous" The only things I see different about Ubuntu are visual themes and less programs. If you have compatibility issues with Ubuntu, I strongly recommend trying plain old Debian.
Still, for an app that uses the gnome skin (yeah, GTK) and is "part of the gnome desktop", Firefox still has a lot to work on integration. Now, compare that with Konqueror... :-)
(Typing this in firefox 1.0.7 on ubuntu breezy)
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
Microsoft has sixty thousand employees worth of developer bandwidth. The question is, is each developer allowed the freedom necessary to see innovation?
With Google, which Slashdot hails as the chief innovator, when someone has an idea about a new feature or product, they have two options: pursue it on their own, given their ~20% personal project time, or make a proposal and get a small group (usually around five people, from what I've heard) to at least make a mockup.
With an operating system, inflexibility is an inherent feature of production, I think. Microsoft has taken steps, as previously reported here, to modularize OS design and production; that way, they can reduce a problem with large complexity into a number of moderately complex problems and give each programming team one of those problems. Similar methods have been or will soon be applied to other Microsoft projects.
Still, if Microsoft ever releases a version of its operating system that is quite stable and secure, then maintenance will require many fewer people, allowing the remainder to work entirely on new products and features.
So Microsoft does have the developer bandwidth; it's just mostly taken by MS Office and MS Windows.
As for software production becoming easy...you want a pretty advanced problem solving system. It's not going to happen any time soon. A more reasonable request is that the average teenager become reasonably well versed in a programming language.
these are words that i think a whole damn lot of us have been waiting a long time to be able to use when describing a linux distribution. the ubuntu team really is making some progress, so kudos to them!
Given the choice between a distro, and exactly the same distro with a bit more polish, why go with the ugly one?
Are all Debian packages forward compatible with Ubuntu? Including those from unofficial repositories, or homemade?
If not, breaking compatibility with mother Debian seems like far too high a price to pay for a little "polish". If so, I'm really fucking impressed and will install Ubuntu today.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I just downloaded Ubuntu 5.10 about 20 minutes ago. I did wonder why the first mirror was so slow...
Actually, I can't say that I've ever seen the clutter that you mention.
t em_prefs.png
What version of KDE are you using? I'm using KDE 3.4.3, as bundled with Kubuntu 5.10. There is no "Systems Settings" submenu. However, the "Systems Settings" utility is by far the cleanest I have seen from them yet. It looks quite similar to the "Systems Preferences" utility of Mac OS X Tiger.
http://www.sonic.net/support/ss/mac/osx/tiger/sys
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Or is real Debian too stupid for regular people to run?
You mean, "are regular people too stupid to run real Debian"?
...I get a pop-up with a fake "security warning" which got past Opera's "only requested pop-ups" block. I know it has nothign to do with the official product, but if you're going to basicly ad for it why not pick a site which makes you look remotely serious.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
From my tomboy note: ...for older monitors and video cards
Add the following two lines in your config file(Section "Monitor"):
HorizSync 31.5 - 48.5 [consult your monitor manual/specs for the
correct frequencies; but those two should do for now]
VertRefresh 50-70
I don't remember who it was that said that on the fourms at the time. Hell it could be a paraphrase and my notes mixed in since it's from my tomboy. This issue is likely your problem. I use both debian and ubuntu on all kinds of hardware. =)
Ah, no, I wasn't specific enough: I mean the Settings menu of an app (say, Konqueror or Kopete).
consider LSB and related certification standards and support for deployment of Dapper on mission-critical servers. Mission-critical, eh? Maybe situations like this won't ever happen: Astronaut: OK mission control we're about to descend onto the moon Computer: WARNING LANDING GEAR CANNOT EXTEND APPROPRIATE DEPENDENCIES FOR LANDING_GEAR_.APP NOT INSTALLED CONTACT SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATOR Astronaut: Son of a
Thanks for the chuckle.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
And this is the third time I've told you this: FIREFOX DOES NOT USE THE GNOME FILE SELECTOR, IT USES IT'S OWN. Firefox's file selector dialog has NOTHING TO DO WITH GNOME WHATSOEVER. Saying "The GNOME file selector used by Firefox 1.0.7 is quite terrible" is inherantly untrue nomatter if firefox's file selector is good or not, since Firefox does not have a "The GNOME file selector". You are basing your judgements on some very misguided assumptions, you have no idea what the Gnome file selector looks like because chances are you havn't seen it in the last three years.
If you want to respond, please read through this very carefully. If you want to say something about "The GNOME file selector used by Firefox 1.0.7" chances are you'll say something untrue and irrelivant. Firefox should use the Gnome file selector because it's fairly nice, but it doesn't. If you have a complaint about it, you should probably email the Mozilla crew instead and suggest that they might like to try using the Gnome file selector instead of their own one.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Dapper Drake is the name of the next ubuntu release.
Each Ubuntu release have two names
I quote from some link on the net "...the goals we have set for Dapper, the roadmap, the process we are following to identify and specify features, and the tools we will be using to coordinate and deliver The Drake."
This gives the impression, that for each release they separated the process from the output of the process and given each a name.
I don't trust that quote much, as I search quickly and didn't find anything else that support this concept.
Anyway, I do think the idea is worthy of investigating, I quote Eisenhower 's "Plans are nothing, planning is everything".
Having a new plan for every release, and recognizing the plan value by giving it a name, a seperate name, seems to satisfy Eisenhower thinking more, it also implies that planning for releases is not dead, which is good, for every release life might have gotten different, and the new for a new plan, way of doing things might arise.
In conclusion, I like the idea, that a release plan, is named and published, and is viable for continues modifications
I like the brown theme too.
It has a 'let us stick together and respect the nature' feel.
However (unrelated to Ubuntu) I agree with a comment above about the gnome file selection dialog.
It is terribly unintuitive and ugly. I have initiated a lot of people to GNU/Linux, and I've shown both KDE and GNOME. Some like one, some the other.
However I noticed that novices which chose GNOME spend a lot more time in GNOME file selection dialogs.
Priority one for the usability of a file selection dialog is shortening the:
"where is this file going to be saved?" thought process.
The KDE f dialogs seem to make a much better work there.
FWIW BeatrIX is built to run on those via chips.
To me, the best path for Gnome to take is to work with Firefox, leaveraging mutual official endorcement to work towards consistancy (mainly in regards to things like the file selector) rather than simply re-inventing what I see to be a wooden spoked wheel without enough tread. But the Gnome crew demands to see consistancy now and they see making their own browser to be far easier.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
My first Linux distro was Red Hat's latest, 5.0. It came with the paperback entitled "Learn Linux in 24 Hours", by Bill Brush, IIRC.
Ubuntu's console install looks exactly like RH 5.0's install console screens. They were klutzy then and they are klutzy now. They detract from Ubuntu's overall image, but once you realize how limited the GNOME desktop is you can understand the match.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
I know that for you, as a Windows user, Firefox does not use the GNOME file selector dialogs. I don't dispute that.
e c/save-as.png
Under Linux, however, Firefox 1.0.7 does use the GNOME file selection dialogs. Trying to save a file using Galeon brings up the exact same dialog as when trying to save a file using Firefox. This is with GNOME 2.12, mind you, the most recent stable release. I repeat, Firefox does not use its own file selection dialogs.
I'll show you a picture:
http://www.gnome.org/~seth/designs/filechooser-sp
It's that piece of shit that is used by both.
Firefox 1.0.7 also uses the GNOME 2.12 "Open" dialog. It's not as horrible as the GNOME "Save As" dialog, but it is still nowhere as good as the one offered by KDE, Windows and OS X.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Ubuntu's policy about firewalls is not having one but not having any unnecessary services either. Makes sense to me, but it might not make sense to someone who has been exposed to the buzzword so often he is led to think that it's a core component of computing instead of a band-aid.
I've recently gone all-Linux, and one of the features I miss (and I haven't seen it any place easy-to-get-to in the configs) is taking advantage of suspend-to-RAM functionality, instead of using that blasted temp file. It's so nice pressing the power button, and in a second and a half the desktop's there! No POST, no nothing, from a complete off state (except power to the MB's RAM)
OK, so I haven't googled enough, and I suspect it's just a matter of executing the correct commands when the ACPI event is triggered, but does the kernel / X / whatever support STR at all?
Yes, that file selector is one of the things that keeps me from ever trying GNOME. It's butt ugly. Really. The other thing is that to me, GNOME is rather "dark", and dark colors depress me a lot.
Now, it may be that I drink the kool-aid and actually *use* GNOME because I like it, but you're really talking out of your ass right now.
/.
Firefox, in Linux, by default, does *not* use gnome dialogs. Period.
Firefox save-as dialog
Cramped, hard to use, file names are trunkated way too soon, and I'm not sure the size field really has a point being there.
Save-as dialog from gedit
Bigger, allows me to select media which I'm pretty likely to want to save to in a hurry, and navigating the file-system tree is quite a bit easier with the buttons instead of a forward-slash delimited string and an up button.
If you're used to the crappy save dialogs from other OSes and DEs, and what firefox offers, you may feel that the gnome filechooser sucks, and that's fine. For me, though, I feel that having something be easier to use from the outset (especially for individuals not familiar with the unix file system or those who just want to save their documents in a hurry). At any rate, bashing both projects because you're ill-informred serves no purpose aside from filling up comments on
Disappointing to see Dapper will still include those awful, tired (6 yrs?) old icons.
Who really thinks of an old life-rescue ring when seeking help? When one wants to engage with an office productivity suite, do we think of an old typewriter? Scissors and Right Angle rule for 'Accessories'?? Nostalgia aside, it's time Ubuntu revisited 'polish' within a contemporary and aesthetic context.
Placement of icons are also still ugly: look at the 'help' and WWW icons in the menubar of this screenshot: they are several pixels closer to the top of the bar than the base. The icon in the middle is faded out to the point of being a waterstain. Why not replace those menubar icons with words and do away with these bizarre, misplaced symbols. Better still, why not draw upon the abilities of those contributing to Art dot Gnome dot Org or better still, the Tango Project.
Ancient. soggy icons that are poorly placed only impoverish the otherwise striking, and singular, visual field of Ubuntu as a whole.
I read somewhere few words about a completely new look of Dapper (it will not be brownish). I might be wrong, but I think Shuttleworth wrote it.
One of the developers I work with yesterday switched from Fedora Core 4 to Ubuntu (we had some issues due to different packages versions - our dev server runs on Ubuntu).
He said "Ubuntu is great" few hours after I advised him to make the switch. All hardware was properly detected (he had no sound under FC4) and he loves apt/synaptic.
I've used U for over 6 months now and I have almost no problems. It's certainly much smoother than FC3 that I used before (fewer services installed and running by default). I only have some weird problem with the microphone (standard SB Audigy) - it "records" things I have heard in headphones couple seconds earlier. Also, a dist-upgrade from Hoary (5.04) has been a bit nasty. I succeeded after struggling for couple hours, but still had some unsolved problems and decided it's gonna take less time to just reinstall.
Seriously, I'm sick and tired of seeing people rapping pn Ubuntu, because of "Oh N0es, It's teh GNOME UI"
Jesus, Folks, there is a reason why we have Kbuntu. If you like KDE that much, no-one is forcing you to use GNOME.
~The TwoTailedFox posts again....
You are a KDE zealot. You don't care about the facts regarding the dialog, you don't care about the design decisions behind the save as dialog and I'd wager that you wouldn't care if it copied the dialog from KDE, windows or OSX. You just want Gnome to look bad because you plain don't like it. Look around you, is anyone else trying to reignite the desktop wars on this thread? No, everyone's mature enough to realise that both desktops are doing a lot of good things.
I'm a Gnome user, but I'm not telling everyone that KDE sucks and to use Gnome. I was being so objective on this subject that you thought I was a windows user. This cannot be denied because it is there in your own writing. I switched to Gnome from being a very loyal KDE user three years ago because I found the attitudes behind KDE were in need of a bit of maturity. What you are displaying exemplifies this. Gnome and KDE are very different environments. They appeal to very different people, when I was a loyal KDE guy I loved it because of the amount of fun stuff they manage to pack in, the options, the huge number of fun included games, the sticky button right on the left hand side of the window bar for quick tying down of windows, the big pretty applets, the power and integration of KFM and later Konqueror. But these days I like Gnome because of its sleek, uncluttered appearance, it's focus on making the most common tasks faster to do, the widgets being small but very readable. As a developer, I also prefer GTK+ to QT because of its community focused development methods and its focus on having excelent high level language bindings (pygtk (python), gtkmm (c++), gtk# (c#)) rather than encoraging everyone to use its native API.
If you want to help KDE you should maybe spend some time developing it, or maybe praise their developers every time there is a positive story on KDE on slashdot. Trying to convert everyone to KDE whenever there is a gnome story on slashdot doesn't help anyone and doesn't really make you or KDE look good. Try not to do it in the future, thanks.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Quack quack quack. It's that ruddy duck again.
Quack quack
Who's there?
Dapper
Dapper who?
Da person you are calling knows you are waiting
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
The answer appears be no... and maybe:
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Firefox, in Linux, by default, does *not* use gnome dialogs. Period.
/usr/bin/ooffice2) without Firefox loading the entire contents of every directory in that path (which, for something like /usr/bin, will cause FF to lock up for five minutes straight). Worse, the gnome dialogs to so twice: once when I type in the path, and again when I hit enter.
Funny how my 1.5 prerelease does use gnome dialogs. I'd love to find a way to force it to use the old ones, especially when it comes to choosing helper applications. The old dialogs, unlike the shitty gnome ones, let me type in an absolute path (e.g.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
I amzy justyxz learningwxz Polishyzxw myselfxyzw
Case in point: OpenSUSE's SUPER and SLICK editions are totally KDE-centric, performance optimized (incl. Con Kolivas' kernel optimizations) releases with a 1-CD install available and access to SUSE's repositories for additional (KDE) apps. The KDE and Minimal versions have been GA for a long time already, but their GNOME version is still stuck at -RC1, out over 2 months ago.
So to revenge Novell the now-reversed plan to make GNOME the default desktop on the Novell-branded enterprise stuff (which the KDE fans never cared about anyway), they're now dumping the massively KDE-centric SUSE en masse, in favour of... KDE on Kubuntu, which is based on the GNOME-centric Ubuntu which in turn is based on the GNOME-centric Debian...? Sometimes this stuff works in mysterious ways. :-)
Even if KDE eventually gained parity with GNOME under Ubuntu, I can't quite see it becoming a "preferred" choice there anytime soon, if ever. Likewise I can't see SUSE, the KDE-centric consumer release from Novell, giving GNOME anywhere near parity, let alone preferred position, on that platform.
If SUSE's KDE efforts aren't sufficient to the hardcore KDE fans, perhaps their best alternatives would be to invest all their time and money into an upstart totally KDE-only distro, or perhaps they could persuade the other KDE-centric major distro, Mandriva, to drop all their GNOME and Xfce (GTK is bad, right?) support? Having recently gotten out of bankruptcy protection, Mandriva would probably welcome the huge buying power of the KDE-only fans with open arms.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
lol that is so funny! Both of your links are to the same pic - the firefox dialog. So it seems both apps do use the same dialog ;-p
Anyway, it's discussed on his page in the Ubuntu Wiki:
So Dapper = last "brown" release.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Funny since Canonical Ltd. will give you Ubuntu CDs for Free.
[insert witty comment here]
Honestly? Lack of polish would be the last thing I could say against Ubuntu. In my experience (I used Warty and Hoary, now I'm running Kubuntu, which is completely different story), Ubuntu is one of the most polished distros of all. They really made an effort to make everything fit together, strip out as much of the confusing stuff as possible (installer questions, non-GNOME apps, tasksel, ...). You just pop in the CD, answer a few questions, and a long time later (it takes rather long to install), you get a fully operational, polished desktop system.
Of course, if you say it lacks polish, you probably have your reasons for saying so. I'm just a bit surprised by it.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Indeed, I've experienced some of the same problems. I'm not sure why the GNOME people haven't picked up on all of those problems. It'd perhaps be okay if such obvious problems were found in an alpha release, but this is in a stable release.
It's nonsense like that which makes me seriously question the capabilities of the GNOME developers. Those are just the kind of mistakes that shouldn't be made in any software, let alone one of the top UNIX desktop environments. The KDE developers were obviously smart enough to avoid such problems, so I'll stick with their products instead.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
No stability problems or anything. Use it daily. The machine is slow but that's not a bug it's a feature.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I have access to a Brother HL-2070N laser printer that uses Zeroconf (or "Bonjour" or "Rendevous" if you use the Apple terminology) to let computers on the LAN know that it is available. For those of you who don't know, this protocol Apple made is very useful for automatic discovery of various things on a network (instant messaging buddies, hardware devices like printers, other computer services like file transfer services, etc.). FLOSS should get into this in a big way because the protocol is unencumbered to share and there is software to make use of this which is licensed to share and modify.
I can print to it with the previous Ubuntu release after some configuration (nothing terribly technical, but nowhere near as easy as it ought to be). Even if enable "discover LAN printers" (or somesuch) in the printer control program, the previous Ubuntu Live CD never saw the Brother HL-2070N printer.
Hence my question for those of you who have tried the new Ubuntu: does it use Zeroconf for automatically discovering and setting up services such as printers?
Digital Citizen
``If you don't like GNOME, like myself and many others, feel free to try Kubuntu. It offers all the goodness of Ubuntu, but replaces GNOME with KDE.''
No it doesn't. Ubuntu is a lot better engineered than Kubuntu. Many things don't work, don't work well, or require some work to get going on Kubuntu. I'm sure this will be fixed in time, but right now I'd say it's misleading to say that Kubuntu has "all the goodness of Ubuntu", as to me, Ubuntu's major feature is that it Just Works, and Kubuntu doesn't.
``Of course, you can still install and use GNOME software, although I don't know why you'd want to do that when you've got the power of KDE available to you.''
-1 Flamebait.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I just got my first Mac since the original one that didn't have a HD, back in the 80s. It's an iMax G3-333 with 256 Megs of Ram and a 12 Gig HD.. It cost $30.00 from the Good Will store. I've got OS-X 10.3.9 running on it and it's a very nice useable machine. I see iMacs on eBay for well under $100 (not including shipping). Give one a try. I'm really enjoying mine.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
Got a OTP, huh?
I certainly don't agree. While Ubuntu is a great distro, and a breeze to install ( I still run it on a notebook, just upgraded to dapper drake), it can't match the power and diversity of regular Debian. Even now gcc-4 and Firefox on debian Etch are ahead of Ubuntu. Certain packages are just plain behind (like xchm, to name one). No blame, because the Debian universe is really big.
But apart from that (and I might be wrong about those: I run a few experimental packages, which might have upgraded those I named), Debian is all about free software, and has a great community. Something Ubuntu luckily recognizes (and shares). So far, I see no reason Debian and Ubuntu can't coexist.
And of course, Debian still has the Anarchy-FAQ and -guides in its repositories (just to show where it stands on freedom, a concept more and more Americans should re-evaluate.
So "used" cases that used "unused" could break, though older compilers in essence used "unused" to mean both "used" and
As slick as it is, Breezy still has some ridiculous bugs that have existed but not been acknowledged for at least six months. Among those that have caused me the most strife, the print setup GUI for SMB printers is horribly broken. The text fields put their contents into the wrong variables in the config file. You have to edit it by hand to get it to work. Tha took me two hours to figure out, which didn't make my boss very happy. Ubuntu is still the best distro out there, but it won't be the Windows killer I hoped it'd be unless they lay off the eye candy and fix some real bugs. Maybe this time around they'll get it right!
Hmm, and I thought I was crazy when I experienced that issue. How would I go about re-enabling the usage of a different file selector?
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
I dunno, things look pretty natural and GNOMEy to me (Industrial engine)...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
It looks just like Breezy, which looks just like Hoary, which looked just like Warty. I'm more into seeing what's new than seeing what's the same.
I'll probably wait for them to include the 2.6.14 kernel before upgrading from Breezy. Dapper still has 2.6.12, and even Firefox 1.0.7. They're still a long way from release though, so I'm hopeful that they'll get those upgraded.
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but I can confirm that the screenshot in question looks very much like my Ubuntu Breezy Firefox 1.0.7 save dialog. Dia .94, which I just installed to check it out, uses the older dialog. Judging from the page that screenshot came from, it seems GNOME wants to migrate away from that.
Presumably, the screenshot in question is GIMP Save As'ing a picture / diagram. I don't much care for the new dialog, although if it would perhaps infer places I frequently save things to that might improve it some.
Since I've got the ear of a fellow GNOME user, when did GNOME decide that drag and drop meant drag and copy? And of course, I'm still waiting for them to let me drag and drop into folders on my Desktop. I did hear however that they finally got a patch in to stop removable media icons from popping up over icons that already exist. So hurray on that front.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
a spiked club used by warring african tribes to beat enemies to death with. It is a seriously stupid sounding name for a linux distribution, regardless of it's meaning. And it's just the latest "fad" distro. Two years ago, it was Gentoo. I suspect many Gentoo users have jumped to Ubuntu now, just to be "cool". I have used Slackware, Redhat, Debian, Mandrake, Gentoo, Knoppix, and Fedora, when it comes to linux distros. I've spent a lot of time managing HP-UX, Solaris, Digital, FreeBSD, and NetBSD. I'll stick to Fedora on my desktop, now that rpm finally doesn't self corrupt it's databases anymore, and it's easy to manage and keep updated. I manage unix boxes all day long, the last thing I want to do when I come home is spend all night managing one more (happened constantly with Gentoo). As Fedora works and is free, I couldn't care less about using the "cool distro of the day" to impress young geeks. -- podz
For Ubuntu, this works: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=82318
Otherwise, I do agree with you. I just had to go through that to get Steam to work under Wine, or rather to have it display any text. Later I found out that it's possible to change what font should be used instead. (Btw, Steam and for instance CS 1.6 runs almost flawlessly under vanilla Wine 0.9.1, I am quite impressed).
Spine World
They are just linked from the main download page, right under the header "Ubuntu DVD Releases"...
Spine World
Yeah, and not only the look is tha same but in ubuntu Preferences is under Edit like all other Gnome Apps, and it uses the (stupid) Gnome file selector. Tempest in a Teacup.
I think the moderator(s) missed the joke.
Parent post was making a joke on "polish" the language, not "polish" like shiny brass.
yikes... sarcasm doesn't translate well on text.. hence beware of use in all text cases, especially in AIM away messages.
:o)
ps: ubuntu is god here; another reason not to use sarcasm even when praising. it's more worthy than sarcastic praise.. yes, i'm being sarcastic
"Persistence is annoying success." - ghee22 11:28:1999 - 10:53:PM
As for the drag and copy, if you refer to inter-application dragging of text it is designed to stop you from accidently loosing data. For example, dragging a command from a word processor to a shell shouldn't cause one's document to then have a hole in it. If you find a nice colour in the gimp and drag it to the desktop, it shouldn't unset that colour, because that's a colour that you like and you might want to use it again. If you drag and image from a web page it is expected that it should copy the image, not log into the web server through SSH and delete the original image. When it isn't clear what the user wants, copying is often a safer option that moving.
As for dragging and dropping from external applications to unopened folders, I think that's probably just a mistake relating to a use case that its developers never thought of. I'm sure if you filed a bug report on Nautilus at bugzilla.gnome.org someone will take care of that when they get time (Nautilus is pretty understaffed at the moment I think). Make sure you're very specific though, I originally thought you meant dragging files from within nautilus. The Nautilus guys are very nice though and I'm sure they'll handle it well if given a properly written but report.
To be honest, I'm not exactly enamoured by the new Gnome file selector either. I think it lacks certain functionality that the old (ugly) one had (notably tab completion being well integrated), but there has been a lot of thought that has gone into it and I think it deserves to be discussed on that level. As far as it compares to other GUI file selectors I think it does ok. For some reason it doesn't have the ability to move or rename files like many other file managers yet it still supports drag and drop which I don't understand.
The whole hiding of paths in the save dialog until the little triangle is clicked thing simply confuses me. Sure, people will be wanting to save in a single directory 80% of the time, but putting the constrols required for the other 20% another click away seems like it gains little for anyone. The new file selector has a lot of shortcomings but making statements like "the GNOME file selector has to go" like that CyricZ dude did doesn't help anyone. The GNOME file selector needs to be fixed so it doesn't show an open contempt to its users' inteligence level, but generally its a good system and the fixes required to make it perfect arn't that huge.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
I'm simply talking about having an mp3 or video on your desktop that you downloaded and looked at, and a folder on the Desktop called "Documents" that I created. Dragging the media file onto the unopened folder causes Nautilus to copy the file rather than move it. Not even a Dialog indicating it's copying things. =(
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
i was so lost for a minute there. I am pretty drunk.
I don't know, that might be something that has been changed in 2.12, that doesn't happen with 2.10, I know that.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
But of course, it doesn't look so hot in KDE. That's using the Gorilla (Industrial engine) theme; you wouldn't want to see it in the gtk_qt_engine...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Of course your hardware isn't flawed. The idiots at Ubuntu accidentally built your distro for the wrong architecture!
BTW This is true for 1.07 but Firefox 1.5RC2 does use the GNOME file selector. 1.5 looks totally Gnomeified :)