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Apple Planning Intel iBook Debut for January?
axonis writes "Apple is planning to release its first entry-level iBook laptops with Intel processors next January at Macworld Expo in San Francisco, highly reliable sources have confirmed to Think Secret." From the article: "Apple will almost certainly tap Intel's forthcoming Yonah processor for the iBooks, a successor to the company's Pentium M. It is unknown whether Apple will go with a dual-core version of the processor, slated for release in January, or a single-core version, which Intel announced in August would be delivered shortly after the dual-core version. The dual-core Yonah chip could very likely deliver performance greater than Apple's current G4-based PowerBooks."
How many programs have "fat" binaries, with intel versions?
"Oh, and one more thing...That whole thing about switching to Intel was just a joke..."
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
Well, it should be no surprise, after that high-end Apple laptops improved *not* *one* *hertz* on the high end since January. Still this is pretty big news, since the PowerBook has had to advance in every other area in the interrim--backlit keyboards, scrolling trackpad, now high-density displays.
But it will be nice to again have a PowerBook that is actually somewhat fast.
What the hell does "Intel ready" mean? That sounds like a PPC iBook which can have an Intel chip swapped in, which is nonsense. Is this just another meaningless headline from our illustrious editors?
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
Leaked Picture link here!
Surely if Apple announces an Intel based iBook, an Intel based Mac Mini will be there too? Or will follow very shortly.
Sam
Does that mean the next january which will occur or the next one after 'this' january. The first seems way too soon (three months!).
God I hate this particular phrase. It confuses me almost every time. I wish we had some clearer system where we would just say a number before the month/day to indicate how many away it was for small numbers. So instead of next january meaning the first january after this we could say 'the first january' and the next one would be 'the second january'.
So could someone please reply and tell me which it is. Also wouldn't hurt to add it in the story.
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
Is if they continue to put cheap stuff in their entry-level machines which are still always going to be more expensive than the windows equivilants. Specifically in the ram and video card department. I mean the people who want OSX anyway are always going to pay a few hundred extra because they want that but to increase market share and become more mainstream I really think they have to make sure they offer the right ammount of power/screenquality/ram/whatever else for the $ , not just a cool physical design.
Although I'm very (VERY) interested to see what Apple's design crew comes up with for these Intel-based machines, the real drama is going to involve watching OS X make its way into the wild, whacky world of x86 commodity hardware. Surely this is going to be one of the most sought-after hacks in the world after the first final release of OS X Intel hits the streets. God help whichever Apple lackey is within 100 yards of SJ when this happens.
...of Edinburgh pub.
"I don't see a need for Apple to go much below $1,000 unless they are going to offer a really low-end iBook with really low-end features," he said. "Cheap (Windows-based) notebooks are just that. Cheap. They have low-resolution, small hard drives, little memory. Apple doesn't need to compete their. They could keep the price the same and offer more. If you're going to lower prices (on iBooks), then lower them on the high end, and add a third, higher-end model that comes at $1,299."
Spelling nazis rejoice!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Does anyone appreciate the irony in Microsoft using the PowerPC chip in its XBox and Apple using Intel in its laptops? Both need to implement "on the fly" code conversion to maintain compatibility with older programs. I wonder who has done a better job at an universal converter. (With the XBox 360 some programs have not been made compatible. I wonder if Apple can hit 100%?)
Of course, as of right now Intel is behind the curve in performance compared to AMD. Presumably if MS can get custom PPC chips, Apple will be getting the hottest and latest Intel chips--maybe even custom.
perhaps Apple can use the single-core versions for iBook to enhance batt life, while using the dual-core on pBook to highlight the differences between the 2 lines of notebooks.
I just bought my PowerBook G4. But then again, it runs all my current software/games flawlessly. As much as I love my Macs, any time I've bought first gen products they've been sub-par. I think I'll wait a year or two so that there's a good enough collection of native software available.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
My money is on the "Celeron-M" being in both the iBook and the Mini (if the Mini survives the transition). That would allow them to put single-core Pentium-M in most of the Powerbook line, with the dual-core only in special pro models.
Apple will play dual-core laptops for all the margin they're worth, which means there's no way they will be introduced at the bottom or even the middle of the line-up.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Apple says they'll deliver something by a particular date, and instead deliver it six months earlier. That's very cool. Microsoft should learn from them and stop promising and then failing to deliver products on time.
"Greater than current G4" isn't setting the bar very high, especially if they go with the dual core chip (which would certainly be nice). I hesitate to risk a flamewar by asserting that current Pentium-M's are already a lot faster than the G4, but they are, so I will.
"The dual-core Yonah chip could very likely deliver performance greater than Apple's current G4-based PowerBooks."
Could? The dual-core Yonah's had better deliver performance better than any of Apple's current laptop lineup. One of the main reasons for the switch to Intel is the sad state of Motorola and IBM's low-power chips.
Other places are indicating that Apple will release the Powerbooks first because the higher performance CPUs are what Intel has available now, with the lower performance ones coming in the Spring.
Not news. Merely rumor.
- Jasen.
Leaked photos of the upcoming P-p-p-powerbook
How does a 7-person democracy cut a pie? Into 4 pieces.
...how they implement the instant-on stuff. None of this "hibernation" crap, when I open my powerbook, I start working. Done and done.
And it it can be easily implemented on Intel arch, why hasn't it been done?
The announcement date (Jan 2006 at Macworld San Francisco) makes sense: January sales figures are flatline.
Apple, usually makes new product announcements on January:
* 2005 - iPod Shuffle
* 2004 - iPod Mini / XServe G5
* 2003 - 20" Cinema Display + New Powermacs + New iBooks + iLife + Safari + Final Cut Express
* 2002 - New iMacs + 12" iBook + iPhoto + OSX installed by default on new machines...
* 2001 - Titanium iBook.
mootion.com - Never underestimate VCs stock options (was: Web 2.0)
Great! Good for you! Please let me know when you've hacked the Gimp into Photoshop, or Scribus into InDesign. Sure I'm sarcastic, but you get my point.
So a dual core new offering might be as good as a 2+ year old G4??
Is the Pentium M really that bad? Is the G4 really THAT good?
People who use the word 'boxen' don't get a vote on what computer I buy.
Think their marketing message is that it is 'revolutionary', and hence 360. xbox 180 would be saying whatever we did last was wrong and we are going a totally different direction, but that isn't the message they feel is correct. They want people to perceive that they have been getting it right, but this next console will revolutionize things along the path they demonstrated, but not abandoning the overall strategic direction.
Yes, it marketize and is confusing, but xbox 180 clearly would send the wrong message regarding their confidence/commitment when the last platform didn't totally bomb. Now other companies that have had horribly bad reputations have done things like say 'we screwed up and learned, try us again', but if their isn't the wide perception of screwing up, the message would just be bizarre.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The highly reliable sources ThinkSecret often cites, most of the time produces so, so predictions.
Statments like "The dual-core Yonah chip could very likely deliver performance greater than Apple's current G4-based PowerBooks." does not sound too reliable. Why on earth would Apple intro systems with less performance than current models -- and I am not just thinking in terms of real processsor performance, but perceived system performance? They'd be the laughing stock of the industry. Unless they can put a system into the market that gives a noticeable better performance than what is possible with the G4, they will wait. Apple does not want the Intel experience to be mediocre. They want it to be top notch.
I find the predictions AppleInsider made last Friday to be more sensible, but I am still not sure if Apple would put the 32-bit Yonah into the iMac, as it may be seen as a step back from the 64-bit G5. I've commented on Apple's 64-bit roadmap and how to get there, mentioning av 64-bit Yonah, which is really the Merom. Perhaps Intel may have been able to bring this chip forward in time from fall 2006 to this spring, enabling Apple to go straight to 64-bit from day one.
The future is in beta
...and introduce a light weight touch screen laptop that combines some of the concepts of MiT's sub $100 machine, a Sony VAIO (or is it VIAO?), the current iBook build quality and a swivel screen. An Inkwell based pen driven interface would be far more intuitive and offers a natural instinctive GUI - just what children need to stimulate their imaginations. The whole paradigm of using a mouse, trackpad and keyboard is so counter productive, except for specific desktop and power user applications. Bring on the PowerPad! Intel inside, Inkwell outside!
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
If this rumour proves true, it will be an interesting shift for Apple. Apple has traditionally kept its consumer machines at much lower performance levels than its pro machines. The notable exception being the current G5 iMac vs G4 PowerBook. But I can't remember a time when the iBooks would outpace the PowerBooks (or the iMacs outpace the PowerMacs). Yet with the Intel upgrade (as TFA said), a Yonah-iBook would likely perform more strongly (on universal binary apps anyway) than a G4 PowerBook. Interesting times indeed....
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
TPM or TCM would be used to prevent you from running OS X on non-Apple hardware, so it wouldn't negatively impact you if you're running Apple hardware. You are free to run Linux or Windows on an Intel Mac, as has been publically stated by Phil Schiller, Apple's VP of Marketing.
You, of course, realize that the deficiencies you perceive have more to do with the fact you're used to system B and occassionally use system A. Most people who use system A regularly claim all those deficiencies (such as the "too far away" menubar (?)) are actually benefits. Likewise, those users of system A who occassionally use system B find system B to be hard to use, confusing, etc (whether "B" means "Linux" or "Windows" or anything else...)
So to answer your question of "why buy an intel mac", it's "to run OSX". If you don't have a need or desire to run OSX you have no need to buy an intel mac. If, on the other hand, you use OSX by choice, an intel mac makes a perfect choice.
Duh.
The folks at Arcitosh will be interested to hear that...
If you're just referring to AutoCAD, emphatically not knowing anything specific, my educated guess is they'll soon be reconsidering leaving the Mac market.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
They've said they're moving to Intel in 2006 to 2007, and will be finished by June 2007. They've also said Leopard is shipping late 2006/early 2007. Doesn't that make it obvious enough that Tiger will be shipping with Intel?
When you buy an Intel PowerBook, you're buying into the most evil technology imaginable
Funny, I can imagine much more evil technology than an Intel Powerbook,
Starting off with something along the lines of a gigantic painful death ray that dissolves your skin first
then fries your nerve endings before it finally boils your blood and liquifies your bones, thereby killing you
until you die to death. Now THATS evil.
Even a laptop that shocks you when you make spelling errors seems more evil to me, Or a Gateway 2000,
Or that little wiggly controller on IBM thinkpads, the mousenipple or whatever it is called... Folks, me and my
imagination have all day to out evil the Intel Powerbook. Apparently you, Sir, have underestimated me in your
hyperbolic haste.
music lover since 1969
The dual-core Yonah chip could very likely deliver performance greater than Apple's current G4-based PowerBooks.
Could very likely? That's quite a bit of uncertainty.
The Pentium M is roughly performance-equivalent to an Athlon64 of the same clockspeed (The PM is still a bit weak in the multimedia department, but Yonah is expected to fix that. The statement holds true for gaming, at least). Assuming that the dual core Yonah ships at the same max speed as current Dothan processors, that means 2.26GHz. That's roughly an Athlon64 X2 4400+. The PowerBook ships with a single 1.67GHz G4. I think it is safe to say that the processor "definately destroys performance-wise" rather than "could very likely deliver performance greater than".
I'm ECSTATIC about this news - as long as the rumored ability to dual-boot Windows XP is a reality.
I can easily justify the purchase of an iBook as a desktop replacement for my boss if the cost stays at around $1000. For this price, he'd be "buying" my current system as a replacement/"new" PC for others in the company as well as a portable system for me to use at home. However, this is only feasible in my environment if the machine can dual-boot Windows. I am a current Mac user and will be able to use OS X for its UNIX-y goodness but will have to fight Redmond's best minds from time to time as I use several tools that are only available in Microsoft-land. suspect that I'm not alone and that there is a sizeable market for users like me with bosses like mine.
I can't help but think that since Apple is a hardware company - and not a software company - that they don't care what we do with the hardware once we have it in our grubby little mitts.
For supposedly being the "graphics" platform the resolutions of the Apple laptops have always been pathetically low. I was running 1920x1200 on my 15.4" laptop, and now I'm running 1280x768 on my 10.6". 1024x768 on a 12.1" doesn't cut it, and it REALLY doesn't cut it on a 14.1".
I just bought an Access Virus TI Desktop and the fact that you can use it as an audio and MIDI interface as well as a knob box with direct access with a VST plugin is making me seriously consider moving away from Linux after five years... I can't stand MacOS, but I can't stand dualbooting even more.
sig.
More importantly: Will they also upgrade the PPC models at Macworld in January? I'd buy a powerbook instantly if it had a better graphics card. Radeon 9700? Sorry, that's not a notebook with a few years of lifespan.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
See here's the thing. This is software, not the Civil Rights Movement. I'm not going to deprive myself of an enjoyable and easy to use computing experience provided by Apple (or even Microsoft) just so I can be "free" with "Only If Your Time Is Worthless Linux".
Have fun not having fun.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Even a laptop that shocks you when you make spelling errors seems more evil to me
If you don't see that this is not in fact evil but actually one of the best inventions ever, you need to spend more time on IRC and web forums.
I'll definitely buy one of these and the first thing I do will be to wipe it clean and install XP. Finally a decent looking laptop from Apple that can run standard software.
and of course the same could be said the other way around.
Not sure how a "too far away" menubar could possibly be a benefit. It was done that way to make it easier to get to. His point that the screen has outgrown the UI is spot-on. The menubar is no longer easy to use.
Of course, the answer to the question is to run OSX. That's obvious in any case. The real question is "why?"
"Why buy an Intel Mac?"
Err... because it's a Mac, is faster than a G4 Mac, but still runs OS X? I *like* OS X, but that's not what "zealot" means. Nor does "zealot" mean "someone who disagrees with Nagora." "Zealot" means "A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in their religious, political, or other ideals." Interestingly, you and I can be on opposite sides of the "Is OS X better than Windows?" question and still both be right. Those are "opinions", you see. To each cat his own rat, and all that.
Oh, and here's another definition for you: "Troll: 2) Informal computing. A message or posting on the internet designed to provoke an indignant response in the reader." My opinion is that you got downmodded, not by zealots, but for posting a troll. HAND.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
The question here is what happens with the Powerbooks if Apple introduces the Intel iBook first. Surely they're not going to have an iBook line that's more powerful than their current Powerbook offerings.
The current Mac GUI stinks. I have to use it occassionaly for work and it drives me nuts with frustration. Just moving the windows about or (much worse) resizing them is a nightmare on a large screen. The Dock is far too limited, the menu bar too far away, the general layout of the control panel, to say nothing of the madness which is the file tree with its "sometimes I'm Unix, sometimes I'm MacOS" tangle. I hate it.
To give you professional advice, it appears your mastery of moving the mouse cursor across the screen and clicking leaves something to be desired. May I suggest buying a lubricated mouse pad for easier motion til your arm gets strong enough to drag items into the dock on a regular basis.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Centrino means NOTHING except that it has a Pentium M, Intel chipsets a,b,c and intel wireless chip x,y,z. "Going" to Centrino does not give Apple benefits except in marketing.
How many programs have "fat" binaries, with intel versions?
I believe that purchasers of consumer machines, like the iBook, are more heavily dependent on the bundled software that Apple provides. Keep in mind that the consumer machines come with AppleWorks, a basic suite with word processing, spreadsheet, etc. Coming from Apple all of the bundled software will be native Intel code.
As far as other software, with the exception of games and computationally intensive programs - the latter being odd to find on a consumer machine, emulation will probably work well enough in the short term. While the mobile G4 and the Pentium M'ish CPUs may be too close to each other performance wise to make emulation acceptable in general, if an app was only using a small fraction of the G4 CPU then effective emulation is possible. For example if an app only uses 10% of the G4 but uses 90% of the Pentium M when emulated the user experience will be about the same.
I know you were joking, but seriously...
When I take notes in my music history class my spell checker borks on almost all of the names and most of the terms. The problem is that a lot of the time I'm switching into german or italian. A spell checker with any warning more severe than a red underline needs to be a lot smarter than anything we have now.
Help I'm a rock.
I agree. The difference is that I will get modded into oblivion and you won't. It is impossible to discuss any negative opinions of Apple on /. It is taken as gospel by many Mac users that there is nothing to be learnt from Windows and that Linux is in some prehistoric age. But, using a window manager where the windows can be moved without skimming right up to the top, or resized from any point inside the frame is fantasticly useful, to say nothing of a multi-button mouse. But such talk is verboten by the invisible hand of the zealots. And don't even mention AMD!!
Ah, well, not my problem, I guess.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
You're right, it's not *THE* civil rights movement, the one with MLK and all that, but it is definitely *A* civil rights movement. Just because you don't care doesn't mean it's not important.
;-)
No, it's a commercial right or property rights movement. Civil rights is about the rights a person has as a citizen of a country. Note the word "civil".
The rumor of a ~$800 iBook came from the same source that indicated a Intel iBook in January. Apparently, the same source that also predicted the Mini and photo iPod. The Mini is a "loss leader" of sorts, Apple is really betting on the second and hopefully "bigger" Mac that Mini owners eventually buy.
No doubt that the Mini was produced in the hopes of luring Windows customers, but it isn't a "loss leader". I bet we see a $400 Mini within the next year, and even that will be profitable for Apple.
..what's the truth here? Are Intel processors more powerful than Motorola/IBM?
The truth is that Apple told the truth but that it was cleverly phrased by marketing people so that consumers, and/or more importantly zealots, would misinterpret it. The truth is that:
1. Historically and in general a PowerPC CPU is 25-35% faster than an Intel CPU of the *same* clockrate. Apple used phrases like "up to twice as fast" and this was true, you could find a specialized app that greatly benefitted from the RISC architecture of the PowerPC and get to 2X. However clockrates were not the same, clockrate is not the perfect measurement but it does matter.
2. Apple was disingenuous in some of it's comparisons, the comparisons were "rigged" to a certain degree. The ByteMarks comparison where they used an old 486 version on a Pentium CPU. Fudged SPEC comparisons. Gcc "leveling the playing field" when gcc x86 is known to be weaker than gcc ppc and better x86 compilers are used for commercial x86 apps. Apple didn't lie, they did fully disclose all this in the "small print" but few had the technical sophistication to understand. While unacceptable in a paper presented to a scientific journal it was all pretty standard stuff for maketing literature and advertisements.
Just as a point of information: Apple will not introduce such dense displays until the GUI is completely independent of raster characteristics; otherwise, you would see some extremely tiny UI elements in such a screen on a laptop...
Once Apple has enough developers transitioned to the new imaging model (Quartz 2D) rather than QuickDraw, I imagine they will initiate this move in the hardware.
The main constraint here is software at the moment...
Don't worry. The TPM chip does NOT cripple the hardware. I'm typing this on an HP "xw8200" that has a TPM chip on the motherboard. The hardware acts no different TPM is just something that an operating system can choose to use or chose to ignore. I have Solaris 10 install in this box and it ignores the TPM stuff, Linuix would ignore it too as would Darwin or any current version of Windows. What TPM does is this: The OS asks the chip to "measure" the hardware. It does this and returns a cryptographic hash. THe OS can compare this to a list of good hashes and then decide what to do. TPM can also do things like "measure" the software on a disk and the disk itself. This could even be a Good Thing on an Open Source operatring system For example Linux could use TPM as a way to make certain the system is not been compromised. It would be a powerfull security measure. Apple will use the TPM to insure that yu did not swap out the whole machine for a Dell, Gateway or whatever. ANy operating system that wants to be secure has to depend on having a secure and trusted "security kernel" that is "tamper proof" and known to work and be well tested. By "tamper proof" I mean you can __prove__ that it is not been messed with. Right now can you __prove__ that your Linux machine with it's one year "up time" has not had one byte of code changed in it's running kernel. You can't, OK you could write a checksun routine that runs periodically, but how do you know the checksum routine was not modified? You can't, not without locking the checksum routine into the hardware and that is what TPM does. If Apple does this right I'll be happy to know that Mac OS X uses TPM.
Let's see - Apple is going to upgrade the iBook with Intel and, if the rumors hold, it's going to outperform their high-end PowerBook line?
Does this make sense? Unless the iBooks are so crippled as to be totally uninteresting (slow graphics, very limited memory, bad bus speeds) why would anyone buy an old technology PowerBook?
Now I can see Apple doing the Mac Mini first but not the iBook if its performance really outstrips the G4 PowerBook.
At least since the iMac, probably since the 6500 (the first personal computer- x86 OR PPC -to break 300mhz), Apple has ALWAYS lead the jump to new and improved technology and aesthetics with the consumer hardware. The pro hardware comes along later - learning from flaws in the revA consumer stuff and fitting in new features in the process.
There's also a good chunk of mac fanboi out there that are all OMG!!!!! GLEEEEE!!!!!!!! when Apple releases new kit. We're talking the kind of people that bought an iMac, then turned right around and bought a blue-and-white G3 when those were released.
Also... the big advantage of the mini is you're not bound to a specific keyboard and monitor. Much as I love my iBook, the keyboard blows compared to my old powerbook and a 12" display makes my face hurt (it's nice but it's too damned small for my eyes) - the mini lets me use my existing pile of mid-90s Apple CRTs (DVI -> VGA adapter with a VGA -> 25-pin Mac adapter plugged into that, FOR THE WIN!) and my existing keyboards and input devices. It's certainly true that if you're starting fresh (say, just out of high school), a notebook is a much better bang for the buck... but if your house is the Macintosh equivalent of an elephant graveyard, the mini fits into that magic slot of "slightly more expensive than a processor upgrade."