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Vista Could Ship Earlier Than Expected

Posted by Hemos on from the not-bloody-likely dept.

UltimaGuy writes "With speculation of a ship date for Windows Vista ranging in the second part of 2006, word has surprisingly surfaced that it can be expected much earlier. BusinessWeek has received a copy of the internal blog of Chris Jones, who is a top Windows executive. The blog states that the code for Windows Vista will be completed by August 31, giving Microsoft the opportunity to place Vista on PCs for the 2006 Christmas season."

122 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. Yea sure..... by rimcrazy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just in time for Santa, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy..............

    --
    "TV, a medium as it is neither rare nor well done." Ernie Kovacs
    1. Re:Yea sure..... by LSD-OBS · · Score: 1

      Yep, and let's face it, an Operating System is not the first gift you'd think of giving, nor would there be much Vista-based software available. Can't imagine why they think getting it out in time for Christmas is in any way important!

      --
      Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    2. Re:Yea sure..... by oztiks · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yep, and let's face it, an Operating System is not the first gift you'd think of giving, nor would there be much Vista-based software available. Can't imagine why they think getting it out in time for Christmas is in any way important!

      You know after reading your post i had a sudden flash of this evil grinch like santa wearing thick glasses, having a bowl haircut (real 70's like) and the windows emblem printed on the side of his bag of goodies. Going from house to house replacing peoples linux distribution pressies with copies of vista.

      Now imagine being that poor let down 10yr old child screaming in dismay ... MUM!!! I TOLD YOU I DIDNT WANT THIS PROPEITRY SOFTWARE TRASH!!!

      And yes i know the hole in this plot, if your giving copies of linux to people for xmas you must be a real cheapskate.

    3. Re:Yea sure..... by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't this just a well thought out (well, at least in the minds of marketing/management) ruse to deceive us as to the real release date? They move the release date forward, so that they can still meet their expectations of releasing it behind schedule, and at the end of the day still release it when it was going to be released in th first place?

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
    4. Re:Yea sure..... by Headcase88 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Can't imagine why they think getting it out in time for Christmas is in any way important!"

      Kids ask Mom for a computer for Christmas, Mom buys one, packaged with Vista.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    5. Re:Yea sure..... by LehiNephi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      an Operating System is not the first gift you'd think of giving

      Exactly. I mean, who is going to be standing in line at 2 am on Black Friday for version 1.0 of an OS that is almost certainly going to be buggy and full of holes? You might as well do the same to get your oil changed. The additional functionality just isn't there. This isn't Windows 95--it's just a pretty face slapped on top of the same functionality.

      Besides the purely-utilitarian nature of an OS, the current set of commercially-available computers from HP, Dell, IBM, etc are not yet ready for the high requirements of Vista, and I don't think they will be by next August.

      In other words, WHO CARES?

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      Help find a cure for cancer. Join the [H]orde
    6. Re:Yea sure..... by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 1

      Can't imagine why they think getting it out in time for Christmas is in any way important!
      I am sorry to disagree. I run windows at home (please don't flame me for that) and although I had planned to buy a new computer, it doesn't make sense in my mind to buy one until Vista comes out. Think about it- if you were buying the kids a computer for Christmas, and knew that Vista was coming out in February, you wouldn't buy the machine for Christmas, you would wait until Feb....
      This is a serious post, but I am sure someone will respond:
      LOL! and knew that Vista was coming out in February, you wouldn't buy the machine for Christmas, you would wait until Feb
      No way dude! I'm a Hax0r and wouldn't buy a Vista machine ever, not even in Feb DUDE!!!!

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    7. Re:Yea sure..... by chrish · · Score: 1

      I could ship it now:

      * XP + SP3 + new skin = Vista

      I will now demand my six-figure project manager salary, as I've clearly earned it.

      --
      - chrish
    8. Re:Yea sure..... by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Exactly. I mean, who is going to be standing in line at 2 am on Black Friday for version 1.0 of an OS that is almost certainly going to be buggy and full of holes? You might as well do the same to get your oil changed. The additional functionality just isn't there. This isn't Windows 95--it's just a pretty face slapped on top of the same functionality.

      Because, through the modern convenience of marketing, it will not be portrayed as a 1.0 version.

      It will be sold as "the newest, most stable version" of their code, and they'll probably call it "Vista 200x". And since 3.11 < 95 < 98 < ME < 2000 < Vista, people will take that on face value.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Yea sure..... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      if your giving copies of linux to people for xmas you must be a real cheapskate.

      Could be worse. Here in the UK (and doubtless elsewhere) eBay are running a big ad campaign to get people to buy their Xmas presents from eBay.

      Am I the only one wondering how cheap you'd have to be to get your friends and family second-hand presents? Maybe I just don't fall into the eBay demographic.

    10. Re:Yea sure..... by Mursk · · Score: 1

      Not everything you can buy on ebay is second hand. I still wouldn't recommend it for your Xmas shopping, but for different reasons.

      --
      "This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
  2. in other news... by 0110011001110101 · · Score: 5, Funny

    a top Realm employee has revealed that the first copy of DukeNukem Forever will be posted with Vista...

    --
    Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
  3. always a good idea by dresgarcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    SO they take the product that has had tons of problems and MOVE UP the release date? Wow. . . I hope its perfect. No that a few months will make a difference at this point. . .

    1. Re:always a good idea by oztiks · · Score: 1

      SO they take the product that has had tons of problems and MOVE UP the release date? Wow. . . I hope its perfect. No that a few months will make a difference at this point. . .

      Well they have to be able to find a way to top the xbox 360 release

    2. Re:always a good idea by oscartheduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In what sense is releasing a product due in the latter part of 2006 in time for Christmas 2006 (maybe having it ready in October, which is STILL the latter part of 2006) actually moving up the release date? It seems to me like they're just shipping it on time. What am I missing?

      --
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    3. Re:always a good idea by jferris · · Score: 1

      I am sure that they figured that it would just free up the development team to work on hotfixes and service packs. Any stability in the OS has traditionally come after the wide-release beta, better known as a "Final Version".

      --
      You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different.
    4. Re:always a good idea by DarkAngel81 · · Score: 1

      maybe it's just another beta release ....but they maying people PAY for it ..... :p

      --
      Win Vista Online Community - www.winvistasecrets.com
    5. Re:always a good idea by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Oh come on!

      Since when has Microsoft ever released a product with bugs that was shipped too early?

      I mean whats next? The Xbox360 was shipped too early and suffers from random lockups? Please..

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
  4. Brilliant... by Chicane-UK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So.. this super hyped version of the next generation of Windows has gradually had all of its most attractive features stripped out of it just for the sake of getting it out of the door quickly. So this means that its going to be yet another interim OS, and the NEXT version of Windows is going to be the one that you really want.

    We're just going to be left with a shadow of the OS we were all hoping for - and purely so that Microsoft can say that they have an OS that looks just as pretty as MacOS X. Other than that, there have been absolutely no stand out or interesting additions that I can see.

    --
    "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
    1. Re:Brilliant... by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A simple search reveals that WinFS was stripped out, while Avalon and Indigo were "decoupled". So, it seems the only things Longhorn has going for it (beyond the new eyecandy GUI) is the "Fundamentals" APIs and WinFX, to plug it into. Truthfully, before WinFS was even removed, it was downgraded from an all-encompassing database filesystem to a wrapper for NTFS that developers can choose to ignore.

      The real reason for the comment, though, is because Vista appears to be a dud, quite like XP. Admittedly, XP was a great improvement for people who were using Win 9x, but there's very little in XP that is an improvement over Windows 2000. It's more a fact that Windows didn't market Windows 2000 for the consumer, while they did market Windows 98/ME, that made XP the first of the Windows NT to sell so well to consumers. Now, assumedly Vista will sell as well, simply because OEMs will be expected to carry the next version of Windows when it's released. It'd take severe issues (a la Windows ME) for customers to actually demand to use XP instead.

      So, technologically Vista seems mostly a dud. It's a shame, too, since with Microsoft still quite the monopoly in the desktop PC world, them actually making great strides seems like the only short-term way in which the desktop PC will advance. At the same time, I (and probably many others) never thought that WinFS would be finished on time, let alone included in Vista. Something like WinFS has been promised at least since the time of Windows 2000 (I've heard reports of sooner, but I don't recall personally reading such promises any earlier; a link to such a report appreciated). The real loss is that with all the software engineers at Microsoft who could truly design such a working system, Microsoft doesn't seem really interested in doing the right thing for the sake of good design. It's the same reason I have doubts about Microsoft's commitment to security. It's a long-term process, after all.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    2. Re:Brilliant... by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      Remind you of a previous time Microsoft did this?

      To those historically blind, this is Microsoft's second time of taking a practically complete operating system, promising a million features, cutting 999,990 of them, and shipping those remaining features half assed and crippled. Of course the Operating System I'm talking about is Memphis; Microsoft Windows 97... 98.

      Of course, people will still buy it, it'll still ship with computers, and Microsoft will still make money off of Vista, but the fact will remain that a sour mouthed community that has been screwed by Microsoft twice over in updates in the past decade might give a few users impetus to try a new operating system, especially a prettier, easier to use, trendier one. Ponying up an extra $100 (give or take) premium for a whole new machine vs. paying the (assuredly) astronomical licensing fees to upgrade to Vista sounds like a safe bet in a lot of households and businesses I know about.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    3. Re:Brilliant... by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      ...just for the sake of getting it out of the door quickly

      I think a better statement would be "getting it out of the door a little less slowly".

      Personally I think the new graphics layer of Vista will be a dud for purely technical reasons. As you mentioned, most of the other features of Vista have been either watered down, or separated out (and backported), so the impetus to upgrade has declined. I'm sure in Microsoft they've probably already started focusing on what comes after Vista, letting a select number of employees clean up that death march.

      Wow - the OS after Vista is codenamed Blackcomb. I find that remarkable as that code name was coined years ago.

    4. Re:Brilliant... by mysticgoat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The significant point here is that Microsoft is now beginning to position Vista as vaporware. MS has a long tradition of announcing that they will start selling product Real Soon Now to mess up the heads of IT strategists who are thinking about moving their company away from MS products. This works because it activates all the PHBs and any effort to talk rationally about moving the company to Linux (or OS/2 back in the day, or D.R. DOS back at the dawn of time) is going to be met with a lot of thought-avoidance resistance since it becomes so easy to say "I don't want you to waste any time on looking at a possible Linux migration until we see what MS has to offer".

      The vaporware stage of Microsoft product development is concerned with projecting mirages of paradise into the marketplace, in an effort to cause potential buyers to wait until MS actually has product to put out there. It is the kind of FUD that MS marketdroids are particularly good at generating. It is the kind of thing that PHBs soak up like sponges, because it gives them such great sounding excuses for avoiding actually having to think about IT problems or making management decisions that might put a ding in their careers.

    5. Re:Brilliant... by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Hmm.. Most people consider Windows 98 to be the best 9x release. Many people did not want to upgrade to ME, and fewer wanted to stay with 95.

      --
      If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
    6. Re:Brilliant... by mpfife · · Score: 1
      So.. this super hyped version of the next generation of Windows has gradually had all of its most attractive features stripped out of it just for the sake of getting it out of the door quickly. So this means that its going to be yet another interim OS, and the NEXT version of Windows is going to be the one that you really want.

      So, I guess that would make the first version Windows Vista, the second would be Windows Then-Removed-The-Lens-Cap.

    7. Re:Brilliant... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Disagree. Most clueful people consider windows 2000 to be the best windows, and windows 98 to be the second best. Most idiots think XP is the best version - that's not what makes them idiots, though. Actually I've come around to the XP camp, I like 2000 but XP has many things that make it better and the only thing it's worse about is memory consumption.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Brilliant... by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Wisest. Post. Evar.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    9. Re:Brilliant... by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      You misread what I said. read it again.

      By the way, you can reduce the memory consumption of XP to pretty much exactly what 2000 has by disabling unnecessary services.

      --
      If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
    10. Re:Brilliant... by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      He specifically said best 9x version of windows.

      This would preclude 2000 and xp from the conversation.

      --
      No Comment.
    11. Re:Brilliant... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Eh, XP still uses more memory than 2k if you turn off, well, just about everything. Sorry about misreading your former post, though. Who cares what the best version of windows 9x is? That's like looking for the best model of yugo.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Brilliant... by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Other than that, there have been absolutely
      > no stand out or interesting additions that
      > I can see.

      Some of the leaked screenshots depicted what I *think*, if I interpreted them correctly, were panel applets. If so, that's a quite useful feature. (It's a feature Gnome and KDE have had for a veritable aeon, but nevertheless, it's quite useful. And it's something OS X does not, AFAIK, have.) (I am assuming that Microsoft has enough sense to do this in a sufficiently general way that third-party applets would be able to display in the panel; the applets that I saw, such as an analog clock, are not in themselves terribly useful, but it is the ability to embed applets in the panel that is useful.)

      Granted, the Monad shell and the WinFS were the really big Longhorn features, and those aren't making the cut for Vista. I guess they'll be in Blackcomb, which should come out by late 2012 or so...

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    13. Re:Brilliant... by fbg111 · · Score: 1

      this super hyped version of the next generation of Windows has gradually had all of its most attractive features stripped out of it just for the sake of getting it out of the door quickly.

      No, for the sake of just getting it out the door.

      --
      Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
    14. Re:Brilliant... by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Not really, my current XP setup uses 78MB of memory. Win2k didn't get any less than that from what I can recall.

      --
      If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
  5. Am I missing something? by Silvrmane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    August 31, 2006. Christmas Season 2006. All of these things put it in the second half of 2006. How is this "much sooner" than the second half of 2006?

    --
    planet texture maps and more
    1. Re:Am I missing something? by the_unknown_soldier · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes you are missing something. When the release was sheduled at the second half of 2006, nobody actually ever expected it to come out before 2010. 2006 is earlier than expected!

    2. Re:Am I missing something? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you measure time in processor cycles, it's a LOOOOOOOOONG time. 4 months x 30 days x 24 hrs x 60 minutes x 60 seconds x 3 GigaHertz = 3,110,4000 BILLION clock cycles.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    3. Re:Am I missing something? by 246o1 · · Score: 1
      the second part of 2006
      See, this is really clever what they've done here. If you look at the original estimate, you will find:
      the first part of 2006 = Jan 1 - December 30
      Thus, getting it out in time for Christmas actually beats the prediction of the "second part" of 2006 by nearly a week, at least!
      --
      Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
    4. Re:Am I missing something? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It seems a particularly strange way to say things after all the delays. When was it originally expected? 2004? So shouldn't the headline be more like: "After failing to come when expected, our expectations were pushed back again and again, again and again, until it was late enough to become a joke, and then it was discovered it might come out a few weeks earlier than the most cynical of estimates"?

    5. Re:Am I missing something? by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Actually it was originally supposed to be released in 2003.

    6. Re:Am I missing something? by Trevahaha · · Score: 1

      Microsoft's fiscal year ends June 30... so this would actually be the "beginning" of 2006.

    7. Re:Am I missing something? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > When the release was sheduled at the second
      > half of 2006, nobody actually ever expected
      > it to come out before 2010.

      I was estimating late 2007 or early 2008...

      > 2006 is earlier than expected!

      Still, this is true. As far as I'm concerned, Christmas season 2006 is still earlier than expected, because it's the soonest Microsoft now thinks they can release, and it's still a year away yet; anybody who thinks that in an entire year the release date won't slip any more clearly does not have my penchant for pessimism.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  6. Oh, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, that's some accomplishment, beating some artifical ship date by a few months... when it's years late and has been gutted of its most-touted features so it could see daylight in this decade.

    NOT!

  7. doesn't make sense by TheWart · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Am I missing something obvious, or is "Christmas 2006" actually later than "Second half 2006."

    At the very least they seem to be too close together to say it is shipping "much" earlier.

    1. Re:doesn't make sense by Bluey · · Score: 5, Informative

      Unless you celebrate Christmas very late, it's actually in the second half of 2006. The summary is a complete butchering of what the article actually says, which is something along the lines of:

      Microsoft's mum about when Vista will be available, other than "second half of 2006".
      Analysts decide this most likely means it will be released on "Christmas 2006".
      A MS Executive blog saying "code complete will be August 31, 2006" is leaked to a news organization.
      Analysts decide this most likely means it will be released on "October 2006" which is earlier than they previously guessed.

      No real news here other than analysts making as many different guesses as possible to hedge their bets.

    2. Re:doesn't make sense by DenmaFat · · Score: 1

      The article tries to point out that Aug. 31 isn't the actual ship date. It's the RTM date (release to manufacturing). In the past, new Windows versions have shown up on OEM systems about six weeks, or even sooner, after RTM. Retail versions generally show up on actual store shelves a couple of weeks after that.

      --
      I love that donkey. Hell, I love everybody.
  8. Better hope it's not being released too early by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or else you might have to have some string on hand for -

    Oh, wait. Wrong Microsoft product. My bad.

    --
    52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
    1. Re:Better hope it's not being released too early by zlogic · · Score: 1

      You'll still need the string - to hang either yourself or some Microsoft guy.

  9. They've done it before by DenmaFat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back when MS was shipping a new OS version every 18 months or so, I think they delivered a product earlier than originally planned at least once. It might have been Windows 98.

    Getting Vista installed on the fall OEM systems is probably their number 1 goal (quality and features be damned). They can always start taking out the really buggy stuff during the summer.

    --
    I love that donkey. Hell, I love everybody.
    1. Re:They've done it before by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      Back when MS was shipping a new OS version every 18 months or so, I think they delivered a product earlier than originally planned at least once. It might have been Windows 98.

      No, they didn't. Windows 98 was supposed to be Windows 97, and it was supposed to have been spades better than Windows 95, but (not to anyone's surprise), it was a highly overhyped, half-finished piece of junk that lead Microsoft to need to release a "Second Edition" later just to fix all of the holes in the operating system.

      It might have been in the NT family, but I highly doubt that seeing as Microsoft's mantra is seemingly "Better Late Than Never". I'm frankly amazed they put together the 360 in as short a time as they did, but then again, they've already been seen to have dropped the ball in one court (the Power supply is "roughly 1000 times the size of earth", to paraphrase IGN).

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    2. Re:They've done it before by Malc · · Score: 1

      No matter how I look at it, 95 -> 98 doesn't come close to 18 months. And you're claiming they released early?

    3. Re:They've done it before by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > It might have been Windows 98.

      It might have been. It wasn't Windows 95; that's for sure. That was *supposed* to come out in 1994, then in early 1995, then... They just barely got it done fast enough to *claim* a 1995 release date, although it was so late in the year that by the time they shipped enough copies of it out that you could actually find it on a store shelf in most areas, it was no longer 1995.

      However, as far as I am aware, there was *zero* hype for that product until 1994; prior to that, the hype was on NT. So they only hyped the product for a couple of years before it was actually available. They've been hyping Longhorn, and the features that would (and now no longer will) be in it, for rather more than two years already, and analysts are still flagrantly speculating about whether the product will actually be released before the end of *next* year.

      WinFS is the real vaporware, though. It's starting to approach Duke Nukem Forever's legendary status in that regard. Wasn't it going to be in "the next release" when Windows 2000 came out?

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  10. Interesting coincidence.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    All of the previous comments were submitted by members who joined Slashdot, apparently, within a few minutes or days at most of each other.

    Check out the members' numbers: if this were poker, it would be a straight-flush.
    1.(#14127838)
    2.(#14127840)
    3.(#14127841)
    4. (#14127843)
    5.(#14127845)
    6.(#14127850)

    And all were posted within two minutes or so of each other. What are the odds?

    And one or all of him, apparently, has moderator points, and is modding himself up.

    Perhaps there is a way to prevent Slashdot giving multiple accounts to jerkoffs.

    1. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by DenmaFat · · Score: 1

      Zee Slashdot, eet eez broken.

      --
      I love that donkey. Hell, I love everybody.
    2. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps there is a way to prevent Slashdot giving multiple accounts to jerkoffs.

      Perhaps there's a way to educate ACs about which number is the User ID and which is the post number.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    3. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by DenmaFat · · Score: 1

      I mean, zee Slashdot, eet eez perrrrrfect!

      --
      I love that donkey. Hell, I love everybody.
    4. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Perhaps there is a way to prevent Slashdot giving multiple accounts to jerkoffs.

      Perhaps there's a way to educate ACs about which number is the User ID and which is the post number.

      Perhaps there is a way to educate logged in users about what sarcasm is, and how to use it/recognize it to prevent them from looking like fools.

    5. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by flyinwhitey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How funny, the AC gets caught trolling, and tries to act like it was a joke.

      I think the more pressing need is to prevent jerkoffs from posting AC. Or just from being stupid generally.

      --
      How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
    6. Re:Interesting coincidence.... by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there is a way to educate logged in users about what sarcasm is...

      Perhaps there is a way to educate ACs about what the word sarcasm actually means? Oh wait, there is!

      Sarcasm: bitter or wounding remark, especially one ironically worded (definition from Oxford English Dictionary).

      So no trace of sarcasm in the original post, just stupidity. But then, some people find stupidity funny rather than just irritating...

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
  11. Re:Morons by DingerX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh give me a break. Code complete. this thing will sing through QA. I'm telling you, Windows Vista will be the most perfect work of man since the Septuagint translation, and those guys had the advantage of only a 72-person dev team!

    There will be no bugs or security problems. And if there are any, well Microsoft can always postpone Christmas. They've done it before, haven't they?

  12. capex by romit_icarus · · Score: 1

    More like the 2007 "capex corporate planning season" than the The 2006 "christmas shopping season"

  13. Re:This Article Could Ship Earlier Than Expected by oztiks · · Score: 3, Funny

    obviously the articals' release date was later then expected, maybe someone wanted to ensure the quality of the information presented... which i cant say is true for the subject at hand ...

  14. bets, anyone? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to take bets on how many articles will be posted within the first week of it's release about how buggy, unstable, and insecure the OS is?

    We already know MS has stripped damn near every one of the planned interesting features from it (for a later release, of course).

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  15. I hear they sell vista at a loss by bxbaser · · Score: 1

    It costs them way more to manufacture vista than it sells for so you better buy a couple copies right away.

  16. Are you involved with this conspiracy? by InsaneLampshade · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mr Anonymous Coward, your "member number" also appears to be convienently close to the previous comments, are you involved with this conspiracy?

  17. Thow all out.. by ds9 · · Score: 1

    Sure, if they keep throuwing out features, they might be able to get it out in time.

    Who wants to buy a half baked OS that will need serious updates to be able to use it they way MS promissed? And even then, you'll have to wayt ages before you can get no less then a part of the promissed mayhem...

    1. Re:Thow all out.. by the_macman · · Score: 1

      Porbably all the average consumers who bought XP and thought it was the latest and greatest thing from Microsoft. You have to understand that only a small percentage of knowledgeable computer users are gonna realize Vista is a stripped out pos, everyone else and their mother will go to Best Buy and see it as the newest OS by MS and they will buy it (in hopes of fixing the XP security problems, which I doubt it will). That's who will buy it, just my .02 though.

    2. Re:Thow all out.. by DarkAngel81 · · Score: 1

      no matter when MS release Vista it will always be buggy ........so i guess its in their best interest to release it earlier, so that the developers can take a break and play Xbox360 rite?

      --
      Win Vista Online Community - www.winvistasecrets.com
  18. New Products on Christmas are a MUST. by _eb0la_reston_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *Every* consumer-products company MUST have something NEW ready for Christmas (aka. peak sales period).

    If M$ *cannot* deliver Vista by September 1st, hardware vendors won't be able to ship their PCs with Vista on Christmas. In this case, I bet they will postpone their shipping date to late-January / mid-February 2006.

    As soon Vista is released, PCs with XP pre-installed will be sold at discount. M$ can't "punish" their customers (OEM, not end users) on their peak sales period:

    $peak_sales = $christmas ;
        big_profit ($christmas) unless ( ( $peak_sales == $discount ) || failed_business_model ) ;

    --
    mootion.com - Never underestimate VCs stock options (was: Web 2.0)
    1. Re:New Products on Christmas are a MUST. by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 1

      I believe you're right. IIRC, MS missed the xmas season with one release (I forget which) and the computer marketers were delivering certificates for a free upgrade during the shopping rush.

      I don't remember how the upgrade program worked in practice, but it seems likely to have been complicated and expensive for them.

      MS usually doesn't make the same marketing mistake repeatedly (unless you consider shipping MS-DOS 4.0 and WindowsME marketing mistakes. I don't: they were just BAD products marketed in the usual way.)

    2. Re:New Products on Christmas are a MUST. by hazee · · Score: 1

      I really doubt that Windows is a "consumer product" in that sense - ie: selling a lot more at Christmas.

      For starters, a large chunk of Windows sales are from the business sector, and they certainly won't be rushing to get new PCs for Christmas.

      As for home users, I don't think that they'll buy so many more PCs at Christmas either. A PC is rather an expensive Christmas gift - some people may get one, but for most it's likely to be an Xbox. And for all the people who buy PCs for their own use (rather than as gifts) then they'll buy them when they need them.

      I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's that much of a boost in sales of Windows towards Christmas.

    3. Re:New Products on Christmas are a MUST. by medgooroo · · Score: 5, Funny
      If M$ *cannot* deliver Vista by September 1st, hardware vendors won't be able to ship their PCs with Vista on Christmas. In this case, I bet they will postpone their shipping date to late-January / mid-February 2006.
      I was sure you were going to say "I bet they will postpone christmas to late-January / mid-February 2006.
      --
      Brain(s): 0.0% user, 1.3% system, 0.1% nice, 98.6% idle
  19. Blog file missing by strider44 · · Score: 1

    Sorry but it seems Business Week is still caught up on Dos. The correct link without the extra 'l' is http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov 2005/tc20051118_179356.htm

  20. Where's the early part?? by 21chrisp · · Score: 1

    So... you're saying that it will be earlier than expected (2nd half of 2006), by shipping sometime before Christmas 2006? Doesn't this mean "not late," rather than "early?"

    I suppose that for M$, the two may be about the same. It may be even a newsworthy event... maybe...

    1. Re:Where's the early part?? by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1
      So... you're saying that it will be earlier than expected (2nd half of 2006), by shipping sometime before Christmas 2006? Doesn't this mean "not late," rather than "early?"

      No, see, because they make it in the second half of '06 by 5 days. When they meant second half, they meant New Year's Eve.

  21. MS invented a Time Machine?? by One+Blue+Ninja · · Score: 3, Informative

    Vista was "expected" about, what - 4 years ago? "Earlier than expected", my ass!

    1. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      No, by that time, everyone expected Longhorn.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by One+Blue+Ninja · · Score: 3, Funny
      No, by that time, everyone expected Longhorn.
      Call me crazy, but I sure couldn't go to any of MY clients and say, "You know that project I was supposed to have done for you 4 years ago? Well, I've finally settled on a name for it. So it's not late anymore!"

      I can only hope that, as a /. reader, you're aware that Vista *is* Longhorn :-)

    3. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by js3 · · Score: 1

      developing an os takes years. what's your problem. First you don't like it, then you complain it's late.

      --
      did you forget to take your meds?
    4. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by One+Blue+Ninja · · Score: 1
      developing an os takes years. what's your problem. First you don't like it, then you complain it's late.
      My only problem is with the claim that it's going to be released "earlier than expected". I didn't say that I didn't like it, nor did I say that I was complaining about it being 4 years late.
    5. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      > I can only hope that, as a /. reader, you're aware that Vista *is* Longhorn :-)

      Not exactly. Longhorn was the codename for a very different product. It was an all singing, all dancing wonder product that would very likely have caused world peace! (Everyone would have been too busy Oohing and Ahhhing to strap bombs to themselves, etc.) Vista is the name of an actual product that might ship next year, after having most of the cool new stuff which Longhorn was rumored to have had removed and replaced with technology within the skillset of Microsoft's code monkeys.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    6. Re:MS invented a Time Machine?? by One+Blue+Ninja · · Score: 1

      True... So in keeping with the marketing logic used here, I guess it's not only ahead of schedule, but also going to deliver more features than originally expected, run on older hardware, and cost less, too!

  22. Isn't Vista... by Flashpot · · Score: 2, Funny

    the working name of Service Pack 3? :-)

    --
    That which does not kill her only prolongs my agony.
  23. Which Version ? by axonis · · Score: 3, Funny

    Which of the 7 different versions will ship first ?

    --
    bæ8Ã0sÃOE?5r©oÂÃ?âz:ÃÃAÃ?ÃOEÂ6fXÃ?]Â
  24. Code complete vs. done with test by mikeborella · · Score: 1

    They are going from code complete to commercial release in under 4 months? The final test cycle will have to be able 15 weeks. Riiiight....

    --
    Mike Borella http://www.borella.net/mike
  25. Who? by chjones · · Score: 1

    Oh me, oh my, why'd this guy have to have the same name as I?

    I'm guessing there are a heckuva lot of other "Chris Jones"es out there who'd rather not have their acquaintances surprised by the possibility that they're suddenly Windows executives....

    --

    Christian Jones
    Medicine. Mathematics. Mediocrity.

  26. Missing icon by Ruphuz · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's strange: I have refreshed the page several times, but the foot icon does not appear...

    --
    My other post is a First.
  27. this name will haunt me by richlv · · Score: 1

    oh crap. as has been statet here and there, vista in latvian means hen. you know, a grown up chicken. this exact form.

    if you are native english speaker, imagine how it would be if it was called "windows hen". or, to be more funny - "windows chicken".

    oh, maybe that is a well hidden attempt to disguis - "you see, they have a penguin, we have a chicken, we are open, too !!"

    or something like :
    http://www.chiken.de/bilder/chiken.jpg

    --
    Rich
  28. Thank god! by __aailob1448 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was wondering if everybody else was blind, stupid or crazy. I see that I was not alone.

  29. Easy! by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

    It's easy to release earlier when you've stripped most of the planned features out!

  30. Windows Vista for christmas eh? by beef3k · · Score: 2, Funny

    I mean, that's worse than getting a pair of socks.

  31. They could release VISTA next month, if ...... by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Code quality is reduced with artificial deadlines.

    They could ship Vista next month if they didn't care about super-crappy code.
    They could ship it next August 31 if they didn't care about very-crappy code.
    They could ship it this decade if they didn't care about somewhat crappy code.

    As for me, I'm thankful they didn't try to ship it when originally scheduled.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  32. Re:And therefore suck twice as quickly by halleluja · · Score: 1
    There I said it. Now mod me down you clonebots.
    So sorry. The clonebots can be expected for the 2006 Christmas season.
  33. Time for new glasses... by cardpuncher · · Score: 1

    I read that as "Vista Could Slip Earlier Than Expected". But I guess it depends on your expectations...

  34. You lost by ylikone · · Score: 1

    Hmmm, are you one of those people that spends hours and days working out the strange coincidences with the "lost" numbers?

    --
    Meh.
  35. 3 months for RC's?? by Jugalator · · Score: 1
    Windows Vista beta 2 recently slipped to at least March 2006:
    http://www.winbeta.org/comments.php?id=3633&catid= 1

    Beta 2 was to be released in the Nov-Dec '05 timeframe but alas, this has slipped significantly to at least March '06.

    Microsoft sources confirm that indeed the target launch date slipped almost 6 months but were tight-lipped when WinBeta.Org questioned them on a new target date. All we were told [on the record] was that it would be a few months later than previously planned.

    This was, according to Microsoft, because the quality bar for their beta 2 was significantly raised. Microsoft intend to keep the shipping date though, and just skip a RC stage instead. When I heard about these news, the shipping date would be late '06.

    But... If this "earlier than expected" holds true, that's like 3 months of post-beta work for an OS having been about 4 years in development..

    WTF?

    I wonder if some info here is conflicting, because it sounds quite stupid even for being Microsoft.
    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  36. Make that 5 months by Jugalator · · Score: 1

    Sorry, somehow got the timeframe wrong, but still, less than half a year for polish sounds a bit crazy to me. :-p

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  37. Oh goody by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can add the date to my calendar of events to be ignored. I suspect I will continue using XP until they stop supporting it. Vista does not impress me at first blush.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  38. Lessee, coded completion in August 2006.... by CodeShark · · Score: 1
    Based on a number of mid-size projects that I have worked with, then Vista (which has 100X the scale in terms of code size) should be nearly production ready, sometime by hmmmm.... Christmas 2008? at the soonest

    Because of the closed code base, anything sooner than that is laughable just in terms of code review and 1st level beta testing.

    Methinks I will wait, or better yet work on my pet open source projects so that M$ becomes irrelevant sooner rather than later.

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  39. well, maybe by zogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The vendors will OEM it, and if this past Black Friday shopping frenzy is an indication, people will be lining up to get it, *because* of the hardware deals that will be wrapped around it.
    With that said, all new major releases of windows since at least 95 have had brisk sales by disk at release time, that lasts a month or so (whatever) then slows down. I would imagine this will be similar.

    It also depends on pricing, MS can afford to drop prices and still make a lot of profit. As the software costs approach or exceed the hardware costs, they will be forced to do this I think. people might be in the unusual situation of being in the same store staring at 200$ complete systems with OS installed, then staring at a set of disks for 200$ with the same OS. This will cause a few "hmmm, WTF??" moments.

  40. What features are left to remove? by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whenever Microsoft advances a delivery date, they usually remove a couple of promised features.

    I thought they'd already cancelled most of the features preannounced for Vista.

    What features are left to remove?

    "Oh, we've found that our customers are asking for the same look and feel of Windows XP so we've decided to keep the graphic design and UI the same..."

    --

    "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

  41. MS terminology... by andy55 · · Score: 4, Informative


    I worked with MS for a while, and their project managers use the milestone phrase "code complete" to mean that it's just testing and QA from there (meaning, of course, many many fixes and revs will be introduced into the code after this). So, assuming Chris Jones' comment about being Vista code being "complete" by Aug 2006 was referring to being "code complete," it doesn't say much about when Vista will ship--it just says when non-QA driven changes will no longer be able to get into the codebase past this date.

    --
    G-Force music visualization
    1. Re:MS terminology... by RCanine · · Score: 1

      I worked with MS for a while, and their project managers use the milestone phrase "code complete" to mean that it's just testing and QA from there

      Meaning, then, that the first release should only be a few days after?

    2. Re:MS terminology... by jc42 · · Score: 1

      [P]roject managers use the milestone phrase "code complete" to mean that it's just testing and QA from there ...

      Yeah; I've heard that sort of logic a lot. What I like to do is produce a C program named like the next product, containing the code:

      main() {
              printf("Hello, world!\n");
      }

      I then claim that, except for adding a few features and doing all the testing and QA, it's the finished product.

      Sometimes I mention that I know of one bug in the code already, but I think I can have a fix for it by next week.

      (Trivia question for C programmers: What's the bug?)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:MS terminology... by Krach42 · · Score: 1
      main() {
                      printf("Hello, world!\n");
      }

      (Trivia question for C programmers: What's the bug?)


      Well, your printf() isn't prototyped, while this is now generally an internalized function, and doesn't normally need prototyping, this is still by strict definitions required.

      Next, you don't declare a return type for main(), which should be int, most compilers default to this return type anyways, but really, one should put it there.

      Next, you don't explicitly state the arguments that you're accepting into main. While this isn't strictly necessary, it still leads to sloppy code.

      Coding Standard violation, generally the beginning { of a function is put on the line following the function, and not on the end of the same line.

      Practical English Usage, "Hello, world!" should not have a comma in it.

      Last, main() is not returning a value even though its return type is implicitly int as stated above. Many people believe this doesn't cause problems, but in fact, it does, as this can allow for a calling function to receive an invalid value for the return code of main() and have wildly unpredictable results.

      In short, your entire problem given relies on undefined behavior, and you deserve a D- for effort... and the fact that on some compilers, it would possibly compile, and do what is expected.
      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    4. Re:MS terminology... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      You forgot embedding of a natural language UI string in the code.

    5. Re:MS terminology... by Krach42 · · Score: 1

      If this were to be a internal tool, and not an external tool for market, then the non-localization can be overlooked.

      Also, for very simple and limited input/output programs the costs of localization might cause more harm and danger to the code than would simply doing it in English.

      All these things need to be weighed individually, and realistic and balanced choices need to be made.

      The stuff I pointed out are a matter implicit in the language that it was written, and therefore impact the entire stability of the program, and not just the program from a usability standpoint.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
  42. Shipping earlier than expected... by Coppit · · Score: 1

    Vista could ship earlier than expected... like 2003?

  43. Earlier? Try delayed.... by Lxy · · Score: 1

    Slashdot has a funny definition of "earlier".

    The company I work for is a Microsoft Select customer, so I have access to people inside Microsoft as well as various Microsoft beta programs. I received info directly from my Microsoft sales rep two months ago. The final RC was due ~April 2006, with a product ship date of mid summer to early fall. Now we've slipped to the 2006 Christmas season? That's an odd definition of "earlier". I call that a "delay".

    This confirms my suspicions that we'll see the first shipping product 2007 Q1, with SP1 due out late 2007. If Vista ships sooner, I wouldn't recommend using it. Then again, I avoid all MS products until SP1.

    --

    There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
    :wq
  44. Lower expectations? by mytec · · Score: 1

    Maybe MS feels they can get away with a subpar release as their customer base is getting accustomed to lower and lower quality. XBox360 issues. Developers begging MS *not* to release Visual Studio and instead fix the bus but MS released VS anyway. MS is just tweaking an OS that was gutted feature wise. Why sit on it and pretend it's something it's not? Fix what little is left to fix and go with it.

    1. Re:Lower expectations? by shotfeel · · Score: 1

      I'm predicting a paid public beta (ala Win 95) about the end of '06. That way MS starts bringing in money and gets it "out there". Since everybody wants the latest, it won't be long before PC sellers are offering it as an option. By doing that MS essentially releases Vista without having to take any responsibility for bugs -its a beta after all, and it takes a lot of pressure off the need to release a "final" version.

  45. So.... by tbannist · · Score: 2, Funny

    Code complete August 2006?
    Shipped October 2006?
    Quality assurance testing begins early 2007?
    Microsoft ends support early 2014?
    Last bug patched early 2014?

    Yup, par for the course for Windows 2005.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  46. Re:Microsoft doesn't innovate by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

    Apple, Google, and even Sun (talking about solaris 10 so ignore their stock price), have been out innovating MSFT since forever.

    As I see it, here's the breakdown:
    1) IE7 = Firefox 1.0.x (but FF1.5 or 2 will be out by then).
    2) Office 12 = new UI, same annoynesses
    3)Vista = Mac OS X.2 or so, while X.5 will be out by then.

  47. Yippee!! by rnturn · · Score: 1

    I gotta reason to stand outside for a day and a half in front of Fry's waiting for a wristband and the random number drawing for my chance to get the latest Microsoft product. My life will then be complete.

    (Dear W3C: I really, really want a sarcasm tag.)

    Just kidding, of course. This is early warning for a year's worth of swooning by Microsoft fanboys who'll be lusting over the latest bit of eye candy from their heroes. (Gawd, it's going to get unbearable.) They'll get new toys for Christmas next year since Vista will invariably obsolete any hardware that they're now using. Then companies can begin yet another terribly expensive session on the Windows upgrade treadmill.

    On the plus side, maybe we'll see price slashes on today's killer hardware; it likely won't be powerful enough to run Vista. (But it'll run Linux fast enough to give you whiplash.)

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  48. Re:Yea sure..... please mod parent up by dsojourner · · Score: 1

    Headcase88 (828620) hits the nail on the head, but only got a 2

  49. Re:Microsoft doesn't innovate by laffer1 · · Score: 1

    Vista is more like 10.3 or 10.4. It will run like 10.4.. kernel crashes, games don't run, etc. Apple and Microsoft are on the same page. Its not even my hardware. I see crashes on G5's at work all the time.

    I don't see what all the complaints are about anyway. Microsoft is giving an opportunity for apple and the open source community (linux, bsd, solaris) to get ahead. Why not take the opportunity? If there are enough features and INTEGRATION then end users will want to try Mac OS or Linux. Apple can integrate but i think the linux community needs to work on it. Either KDE or GNOME needs to die. Every OS feature needs to be tunable/controlled in the gui. Someone needs to finally make a true linux desktop system. (ubuntu doesn't count as they can't even do dhcp right) Please someone step up and do this. I know i'm going to try. Everyone complains about microsoft but i dont' see action. Sign up for your favorite OSS project and get to work. Give consumers a reason to switch.

    --
    MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
  50. Releasing software EARLY isn't an advantage by gelfling · · Score: 1

    That's really the point. Getting a years late woefully problematic blob of code out de dawr early so it's even more rich with bugs and collapsing goodness is not actually an advantage.

    But people will say it is because Win Nerds are typically disconnected from customer service and business reality on this point.

    Hell it's borderline unethical to release early if you know it's broken just like sending poorly tested drugs out in the world.

  51. Doesn't August 2006 = second half of 2006? by frdmfghtr · · Score: 1, Redundant

    With speculation of a ship date for Windows Vista ranging in the second part of 2006, word has surprisingly surfaced that it can be expected much earlier. BusinessWeek has received a copy of the internal blog of Chris Jones, who is a top Windows executive. The blog states that the code for Windows Vista will be completed by August 31, giving Microsoft the opportunity to place Vista on PCs for the 2006 Christmas season.

    Last time I looked at a calendar, August 31 was in the second half of 2006. How is this news?

    --
    Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
  52. So How many of you will want to by alfredo · · Score: 1

    remove your hacked version of OSX/Intel to try your pirated version of Vista?

    --
    photosMy Photostream
  53. x64 hardware support? by David+E.+Smith · · Score: 1

    Does this mean we'll finally get some decent drivers for x64?

    I recently bought a new computer, and installed Windows XP x64 Edition. Out of the box, so to speak, basically none of my hardware was supported. I've found drivers for most things, but I'm presently using the lousy onboard audio because I couldn't get Audigy drivers (this seems to have been since remedied), and my Lexmark printer/scanner is still a paperweight, some six months after the OS was released.

    I'd probably have better luck getting everything to work in Linux, which is an odd statement, but probably a true one.

  54. I'll believe it by GadoBone · · Score: 1

    when I see it

    --
    Contact Gillware for all your Data Recovery Needs! Data Recovery
  55. Explain again how... by Mursk · · Score: 1

    Explain again how "the 2006 Christmas season" is "much earlier" than "the second part of 2006"???

    --
    "This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
  56. XP not a dud by commanderfoxtrot · · Score: 1

    You are correct to say XP was not very different to Win 2000 -- but a dud? No way. XP has been a resounding financial success for MS.

    This is probably due to the advertising and corporate presence- Linux gets much less airtime even though for many users it is a far superior system.

    --
    http://blog.grcm.net/