Slashdot Mirror
Fixing Windows Boxes that Crash After Blackouts?
UnseenTomorrow asks: "Everytime there's a power outage in my house, my Gateway computer crashes. It's only 2.5 yrs old. After the crash the computer just will not allow Windows to boot (yes, this includes "Safe Mode" and every other boot option in that menu). Should I explicitly say that I'm tired of rebuilding or restoring the image everytime? Does anyone have any idea of what could be the problem. I've other computers running fine after the power outage with the same OS but different hardware manufacturer. Any clues or suggestions would be greatly appreciated."
That's why God invented the UPS. The last one I bought was $90, but you can get them for much less, use the networking connections, and install the software that'll automatically shut down the system.
I don't use a huge UPS (actually I have two). I've noticed that if we get a power outage that's more than a flicker (i.e. lasting longer than 2 minutes, while circuits reset), that it'll likely be out for 45 minutes or more. So I don't worry about keeping my systems going for longer than 5 minutes (which is the 2 minutes plus 3 to shut them down -- which will change when I finally have time to set them up to communicate with the UPS).
Just buy a UPS to allow your (screwed up (use Linux!)) operating system shut down.
Install Ubuntu in Android
Yeah, it sucks and all and that kind of thing can tend to happen with a hard shutdown... But you know, it could all be avoided with a reasonable backup power supply unit. Either one big one for all of them or several small ones. YOu just need enough time for them to shut down gracefully. If you're running Windows they often come with software that will instruct the systems ot safely shutdown after the outage is detected and before the juice runs out.
Sure, they're not free or cheap, but figure if you make $30-$40/hr and if you spend eight hours rebuilding a bunch of boxes, you might as well have just spent a few hundred on a nice power supply...
...Or you could just go with Linux.
Install Ubuntu in Android
Is something running on that computer that isn't running on others? I'm wondering if an important boot file is being left 'open' and never successfully closes unless Windows shuts down. Since you mentioned it being a Gateway computer, I would look closely at this. Maybe they have a recovery app that's shadow-copying your boot stuff so you can recover it later. (Maybe even the Windows save state for system files...?)
On a different topic, years ago I had a problem where Windows 98 would hose itself if you shut it down. It'd actually wipe out the FAT table. Why? The HD was new with a bigger cache than most discs had at the time. Windows would shut the power off to the drive before the disc was done writing data from the cache. I don't have high hopes that this has anything to do with your computer, but if I had nothing else to try in your situation, I'd see if the problem happens with a different HD.
"Derp de derp."
You could get a treadmill and start running during the power outage. You have to be quick to start running though; I hear power drains from the circuits pretty fast!
Also, have you looked into purchasing a UPS? They are pretty cheap now (less than $100). You would have enough time to shut down your machine safely if there was a power outage.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
About a quarter of the Dells in our computer labs forget all their BIOS settings after being without power for a few hours. That's the sort of place I'd look for your problems.
I can't believe this story was posted.
Amazing magic tricks
most of the time a file has been crosslinked and corrupted. Boot to safe mode and run chkdsk on the system disk.
++ Jesus loves you as you are;
++ Cuthulhu thinks you need barbeque sauce!
Everytime there's a power outage in my house, my Gateway
Well, there's your problem right there! Buy yourself a new computer and quit bothering us.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Does your system hard drive have write caching enabled? If you don't want to splurge for an uninterruptable power supply, you might want to try turning write caching off and see if that helps with your problem.
I've seen many problems in the past with write caching-enabled hard drives that become heavily corrupted when an unexpected power outage occurs, which we usually attributed to cached data being lost before it could be written to the hard drive. Granted newer hard drives and operating systems are more dependable when it comes to write caching, I still don't trust it enough in ye ole generic workstation to enable it (especially when the performance boost is virtually unnoticable to Joe User on newer machines when running generic desktop applications).
I keed, I keed...
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
"My machine won't work. Here's no relevant details. What's wrong, and how can I fix it?"
Cliff, if this is the best you could find for an Ask Slashdot, it's time to decommission the category.
The only answer this deserves is this. Why don't you read it too, Cliff?
I have PLENTY of experience with Windows being unreliable.
If you are using Windows XP, just re-load the operating system over the old system, and that will very likely fix everything. Boot from the Windows XP CD. Important: Skip the first "Repair" chance. The second is what you want.
Another phrase for the business strategy of an unreliable mainstream operating system is "maximizing shareholder value". Many people who begin to have trouble simply buy another computer, and Microsoft makes more money, since Microsoft makes them buy the OS again.
--
Who has killed more Iraqis? Saddam or Bush?
Ok, here's your answer. I'm guessing your Gateway has GoBack on it. GoBack does not play well with other software or hardware, and likes to shit itself^H^H^H^H^H and can cause data inconsistencies when you pull the plug.
/. are telling you to do, and get a UPS and plug a new computer into it.
Basically, what it takes to fix it is get rid of the problem (GoBack) This will require, when you boot up, hit the space bar and turn GoBack off. Leave it off. Then, do what all the other nice people on
To the editors: ARE YOU SERIOUS?? What, today is 'any old story will do' day?
Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
Check the BIOS settings -- at work after a power outage I got a rash of calls of systems that just kept rebooting. Sure enough changing the sata control feature in the bios fixed hte problem
I had the same thought. Five minutes on even a newbie forum should have resulted in the general UPS answers that are dominant at the moment.
Product of a few minutes on google.
It is one thing to ask /.'ers to do tech support for truly difficult problems. But this one should have been managable by the people at any friendly computer repair center.
You know, digg might be on to something with the ability to mod stories up or down.
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is not normal Windows behaviour. If you're using NTFS and are not, say, editing important system files that have been saved to disk in an inconsistent state (being in the middle of a service pack install, for instance), Windows would just happily boot up and keep going in event of a power failure.
I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally shut the power down to one of my PC's, or had a power failure. Never had a single problem such as Windows not booting. With NTFS, there's not even an annoying disk check to wait for like there was with FAT(32).
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
They seem to have solved the problem pretty well with laptops, which are a fraction of the size/weight of desktops...
1) Reset your BIOS to the default settings.
2) Check your hard disk(s) and make sure that they are spinning up OK by the time the BIOS finishes.
3) Check for services starting which address programs or hardware which may have been removed.
4) Swap the power supply.
5) Wipe the hard disk and (if you must use MS Windows) reinstall from scratch. I've seen machines from big manufacturers that had all sorts of weird problems which went away with a default install.
The above checks cost nothing but your time, but then there's option #6.
6) Buy a UPS.
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Looks like your system crashed during a write and NTFS is unclean. Boot off a Windows CD. Press "R" to run the recovery console, log in, and type "chkdsk /f c:".
9 out of 10 times, chkdsk will be able to restore FS consistency. If not, do a "repair" operation to put down fresh OS files. Unplug the net until you enable the firewall, though.
Buy (get, whatever) a copy of Acronis True Image Backup or comparable application. Schedule once per week full backups and daily incremental backups in the wee hours of the morning. Put the backup set on a secondary partition or hard drive. Create a recovery disk. Sit back abd relax.
Acronis' True Image Backup product has saved my butt on several occasions, and has been reliable and rock solid. You'll never lose more than a day's worth of data which is more than enough for a home user.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
reset the CMOS. if you're not even booting to the graphical part of windows chances are there is something wrong way before that. gateway machines are weird. you may have noticed that when you plug the computer in a bunch of capacitors on the motherboard will charge. i have yet to run across another mobo that does it. it might have something to do with that and the fact that the mobo isnt completley isolated from the outside world when its turned off. so yeah, reset that cmos and try again.
I have a computer. I got it at a flea market for 20 dollars. It doesn't work. Anyone have any idea why? How do I fix it? I've tried everything I know. HELP!
WTF is slashdot posting this for? What kind of news is this? This has to be the stupidest "story" I've ever seen on the front page of slashdot. Please for the love of geekdom, put in a story moderation system.
Though I will say, judging by some stories that make the front page of Digg, it won't help a whole lot. Maybe you could make it +/- mods...not just + mods. I think that would actually make it better than Digg. Right now you either "Digg" a story or you don't. If enough people digg it then it makes the front page. You should be allowed to give negative mod points to the story as well. Please give us Negative Mod points for "news" stories on Slashdot. This "ask slashdot" should have never made front page.
At least give the subscribed users story mod points or something. If we are this desperate for "stories", I'll come up with a nice question like "I installed Linux now I can't find windows, what do I do?".
Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
You left out some important information, like ...
There are several versions of windows, which one are you using?
What actually happens when you try to reboot? Is there an error message? A blank screen?
Which model gateway are you using?
Here are a few things to try.
Try googling that model with 'reboot' and any other useful info about the problem.
Could it be the cmos battery? Swap with another pc and see if that works.
Could the power supply be on it's last legs? Swap in one from another pc
While I am not suggesting you switch operating systems, the 'try linux' idea could narrow down the problem. Try booting off a knoppix or other livecd, if that doesn't work try installing linux (back up your system first!) and seeing if there are still boot problems.
Buy a $50 UPS Battery backup power supply. Some now come in the form of a surge protection power bar. When a power outage occurs, they force your computer to shut down gracefully thus preventing system crashes.
But in reality, there is little you can do to prevent Windows, or ANY other OS out there from becoming corrupted after a power outage, this isn't an XP only situation. If your hard drive was in the process of writing data, especially if it was transfering cached data from virtual memory, then there is not much you can do to prevent an OS from becoming corrupted after a power outage. I have to day thought that I have never had any significant OS problems with Windows after blackouts on my home computer.
By getting an uninteruptable power supply, you can aleviate the nightmares that can occur if a computer loses power unexpectedly. Or, get into the habit of shutting down your computer when not in use, so that when power outages occur, there is less chance for your computer to become corrupted simply because you didn't want to shutdown the computer when you were done using it.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
As much as I throughly dispise working with Windows' GUI, etc., I have seen, so far, one instance of a problem with a hard shutdown on NTFS. Other than that seems to hold its own as a journaling file system.
This is coming from doing lots and lots of hard reboots on Windows 2k* servers in a web hosting environment.
That does not mean other programs or hardware, i.e. SCSI RAID w/big caches on both the drives and the RAID card itself, might have a problem with such actions.
I can actually say that Microsoft has gotten journaling right with NTFS, even if it were to turn out that they license it from someone else (not claiming they do, just a conjecture).
Now, if they'll only change their stupid permissions schema.
Could it be that hard-disk write-caching is enabled on the dying computer, and disabled (or less aggressive) on the others? Check your IDE driver's settings and disable write caching if it's enabled.
Oh, and like eleventy-billion other people said: Get a UPS.
--Joe
Program Intellivision!
It could be the fact that its a Gateway. Cheap powersupply, motherboard, hard drive. My guess is that something is not behaving properly during the low power condition. I believe the PS should shut off completely when its not able to maintain 5/12V, but due to a design flaw or defect, yours may still be outputting, leading to unknown states in various components of your system.
Easiest answer: UPS.
Otherwise, a fresh, clean install of Windows; swap power supplies; swap hard drives; swap motherboard, etc.
I have a UPS with a spent battery of the type you discribe. I also have a car battery. Since you do not recommend anyone do it could you elaborate at all on how not to do said conversion. I was worried about overheating since the UPS was very cheap. I also happen to have a few 12vdc fans laying around I was considering using for cooling. How would you incorporate them if you were going to and not recomend anyone do that too?
"He's a real midnight golfer"
I feel you. I had the power go about just about a year ago. When it came back on, my hard drive was so damaged I had to replace it. Luckily, I use a disk imaging program with the backups saved to another drive, so I didn't lose a whole lot.
Just spend the hundred bucks for a UPS. Save yourself the headache.
Only on
"My printer won't print and gives an error of 'PC-Load Letter'. Can someone tell me please how to get my printer working?"
News for Nerds indeed. Someone please email me at relevancy@regained.com when this site no longer is worse than C-Net forums.
PS this question would have been marginally interesting if the OS in question was Linux. But as it is, please go ask your 13 year old kid how to keep windows running.
--
$tar -xvf
It is likely that your system fails to boot up because a stupid driver is tryting to read a log file or data file that it keeps freeking open all the time when running
BAD DRIVER! BAD! BAD! NO COOKIE FOR YOU!
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to hunt this driver down, and without mercy destroy it!
One path you might take to begin this task is to install plain vanilla windows without any drivers - don't even think about using the windows disk that came from Gateway!. Now unplug the computer while it's running. Does it boot up? Good! That's because the default drivers included in Windows are, generally speaking (and almost miraculously) fairly safe drivers to use.
Now at this point you might think, "Hey, I want to install all that other junk that came with my computer that I never use!" TRY to suppress that urge. If you can possibly live without it, then don't install it. Go to the individual manufacturer websites of the devices which do not perform adequately with the plain vanilla install of windows. This might include chipset, sound, graphics. Install them and do the unplug test with each of them.
This should resolve your problems, as long as you don't install any drivers you don't absolutely need that windows doesn't come with.
If you exhibit a desire for a higher performance system and start installing the other latest drivers from either gateway or the manufacturer for devices that windows provides a decent driver for - please step away from the computer. Close your eyes, take a deep breath and calmly propel you head backwards into the floor. When you awaken, your mind will be clear, and this thought will be foremost, "If I wanted a performance computer I could tweak that I could also use on a daily basis, I wouldn't have purchased a boxed system."
-Adam
Another Slashbot troll submission (I'll say goodbye to my karma now).
The submission infers that MS Windows is at fault for this individuals negative experience.
Let's be a little more objective.
The environment: Individual has a computer running an OS. The computer is 2.5 years old. The user has placed the computer into an environment where the unfiltered power is unpredictable due to environmental causes, and cuts out often and without warning.
The problem: When the power is cut to the box, the OS (Windows in this case) no longer boots.
The cause (from the slashbot's perspective): "Windows is at fault, I am tired of rebuilding/reimaging this computer."
The more likely set of causes: The computer is not in a suitable environment. The hardware does not handle the poor power supply conditions very well (unsurprising, it is likely that the environment is outside of the parameters specified by the vendor, Gateway, for reliable operation).
The solution: Install Linux. Linux users are conditioned by.. something.. (please tell me what, I'm curious to know) to not complain when Linux doesn't work. So, when the power fails and uncommitted data corrupts the boot image on the physical disk of the Gateway box, the submitter won't think of posting to Ask Slashdot when he needs to reinstall/repair Linux. The general perception and philosophy with regards to Linux, a key end user difference, if you will, is as follows: When Windows fails, it is the fault of Microsoft. When Linux fails, it is your fault. This is, to some extent, fallacious. Whenever a Windows system I look after fails, I do not run to Microsoft for them to fix it, I fix it myself. If I looked after any Linux systems, I do not expect anyone but myself to fix it. It is true that more commercial shopfronts and computer repairers will be able to fix Windows problems, but this is simply an element of the Microsoft market presence.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
IAACSO (I am a computer shop owner) and I see this sort of thing a lot.
:-).
:-D
If your computer works *flawlessly* between power outages then your hardware is probably fine. Whatever software is running, despite what Linux users may believe from their own experiences, Windows XP is solid enough to reboot even when you leave files open and crash. It even backs up all your system files (unless you've got system restore switched off) to avoid you losing anything that is needed to get the computer booting. So it's not your software either, provided you've told us everything...
Finally, as most people here are suggesting, you could get a UPS. Before you shell out for that though, I'd try a nice fresh new PSU. Trust me - a flaky PSU will make a rig *tap-dance* at random
Peace, and good luck. If you have any more problems drop your rig back in to the shop^H^H^H^H^H^H^H over to Australia and we'll take a look at it for you.
Aaron.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
Ah, but you might have mentioned that the credulous mind would not even check to see if this thing "Slashdot" existed. Further, they would not necessarily resolve the ambiguities of the English language to the rational subset of meanings.
For example when hearing that "a lamer posted a story about a crashing POS Gateway on Slashdot", they might get a significantly different interpretation than we would expect. Subsequently their actions could reveal their failure to comprehend in amusing ways.
In this case, some portion of the universe of all credulous minds would believe that the lamer physically put their story in the mail while standing on top of the thing called Slashdot. Other similar ways exist.
These are the types of clouded thinking that slow up projects in the corporate world. Yes I am thinking of something concrete in the recent past but will not say who or what. To do so would serve no positive purpose and hurt feelings certainly would not help with making progress to my goals.
Yours was the funniest post I have read in some time. I resolve that credulous shall be my word of the day. It not used enough.
Thank you.
I do so dislike crashes that cause kernel corruption.