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French Military Police Switches to Firefox
Oslo_the_CKC writes to tell us that French Magazine Linux Pratique recently published an interview with General Brachet of the Gendarmie Nationale. In the interview he discusses why they have moved over 100,000 personnel over to Firefox and Thunderbird (70,000 and 45,000 respectively). This follows on last year's switch to OpenOffice.org so it seems like the French Military Police are enjoying the success of open source.
They gave up with IE.
Giant orange lizard seen marching under the Arch de Triumph
Well, now we know who the loser in the browser war will be.
Honestly, the reason why firefox is the preffered choice is not only because of it's security, robustness, and general workability, but also because it's so damn customizable. Honestly, I can do anything I want on any operating system, if I have my handy dandy firefox.
.. it's pretty sweet.
Anyway, check out this kickass firefox extension that allows users anywhere to chat with other users viewing the same website as them. (It'd be cool to see a few slashdot.org people!) =)
Try the QuickChat extension out
Um, dude how bad is your math? Assuming that they aren't leaving some with IE+Thunderbird or Firefox+OE, 15,000 will be using both.
Less than a dozen comments so far and the majority are "surrender" jokes. Where are my moderator points when I need them?
Another foreign government branch switches to an open source solution. Wow. How about "American corporation XYZ switches N hundred thousand employees to Firefox". That would be news!
Linux Pratique: What are the most important features of Firefox 1.5?
Général Brachet: These features are independent of the version number. The most important things about Firefox are its compliance with W3C standards and its availability on several platforms (Microsoft, Linux and Mac). When the Gendarmerie will deliver application on-line to homeland security organisations and, in the future, to citizens, it will not request the users to use any particular platform or piece of software from specific vendors. Using Firefox or any other Web-standards-compliant browser will be requested, independently of the platform (...)
Linux Pratique : How many seats are going to be deployed, and how long will it take?
Général Brachet : Starting January 1st, 2006, Firefox will be the browser of choice for the Gendarmerie. (...) This migration will impact every PC connected to the Intranet and the Internet, totalling 70,000 seats, before the end of the year 2006. Most of the Web services will be W3C-compliant by then. (...)
Linux Pratique : OpenOffice.org (last year), now Firefox, when will you swich to Linux?
Général Brachet : Thunderbird will be deployed as the only mail client on 45,000 seat in 2006. The idea is to provide every unit with a workstation and have it used daily. Every Gendarme will have four tools at his disposal: a bureautique suite, for writing documents and doing procedural work, a browser to access the Information Systems, a mail client to communicate and an antivirus. Our first goal is to migrate all the upper layers of the workstation to Open Source Software to be independent of the Operating System.(...)
It's a great pleasure to see this important project being finally revealed to the general public, and to see Gendarmerie Nationale understand the importance of Open Source Software and Web standards. It uses them, and even gives back some code the the community, while telling the world about it. If I had a wish for 2006, it would be to see large users do the same, and tell publicly that they use Open Source projects. For them, it would be a way to give back to these projects something they really need: visibility.
Am I the only one who is amazed that the French Military Police Force has 100,000 personnel working for it? The United States has approximately 840,000 police total, including military police, state police, county police, and federal law enforcement agencies. France's population is only 60.5 million compared to the US' 296 million. Is the military police force in France used for more than just policing members of the French military?
Article slashdotted:
Mirrordot link!
Dependency hell? =>
they have moved over 100,000 personnel over to... Thunderbird
Whoa, France. I know that fancy wines are a little bit on the downside now, but surely you can find something a little fancier than the $2.99 bargain bin at the liquor store and isn't the sole inebriant of choice for Stephen King's hobos.
Who wants several thousand copies of MSIE? Only been dropped once! ...
This just isn't funny if it isn't guns, is it?
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
but ferreal... who cares?
The more bricks that start falling out of the Microsoft monopoly will encourage extra bricks to fall and might take the entire wall down after some time. Don't forget street credibility! Every small step in the right direction is a small step in the right direction...
Dependency hell? =>
This would seem to be a pretty bold move - think about it. They're using software which wasn't blessed by the winPope at Redmond. Were it any other commercial organization, there would be an acknowledgement that somebody within the organization had to be pretty gutsy to press for a non-Microsoft solution to anything.
Unless the organization were, say, IBM or Sun or HP, for example. ;^D
Just to clear things up the blog is talking about the French Gendarmerie, the french national police force.
It does not mean the actual French Military Police as we would think of it; the police force of the miltary.
the french army only has 136,000~ soldiers!
You know where to find me, Sunshine.
KFG
My first throught exactly. I'm thinking that not much more than 70,000 personnel are being swiched over in total. I think there must be a tremendous overlap... probably nearly all involved are getting Firefox, and perhaps not all personnel have email or some choose to use a web-based interface, so they don't need Thunderbird.
My $0.02 or should that be Euros...
--Aaron Greenberg
I don't use firefox as an option to internet explorer. I use it because it works well for what I need it for.
-- Bryan
Linux Pratique : OpenOffice.org (last year), now Firefox, when will you swich to Linux?
Général Brachet : Thunderbird will be deployed as the only mail client on 45,000 seat in 2006.
Fun to know that after all this time, I actually ran Thunderbird OS...
I hate all sigs, mine included.
The reason that less than half are _also_ using Thunderbird probably has to do with the complete absence of personal information management software from the Mozilla Foundation. No, Sunbird doesn't count.
Laws are for people with no friends.
For Christ's Sake.
20 comments - the majority of which are 'French surrender' jokes.
1) Some originality would be nice.
2) I thought 2006 was the year the American public would wake up to the way they're manipulated (can you remember having the same contempt for the french prior to their [justified] opposition to Iraq II?)
3) Leave the french-hatred to countries that have a reason to hate the french. Like New Zealand or just about anywhere in the South Pacific
4) Some originality would be nice. Every time there's a French story, its like reading fark.
5) Please see points 1 and 5.
My pics.
This slashdot story says, the French Department of Culture have told Free Software authors: "You will be required to change your licenses." And "You shall stop publishing free software," and warn they are ready "to sue free software authors who will keep on publishing source code" should a bill proposal passes in the Parliament.
Oh please. The reason it made the front page is because it's a major switch to Firefox. Doesn't matter who switches, just that some large organization made the switch.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
Wouldn't this actually be the Freeloaders-And-Leeches department? I mean, the poster child for OS would CONTRIBUTE to the project, either with skill, time, or money.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I like the way they have a specialized "bureautique suite", for generating red tape!
Woah, I hope they all use my "Spread Firefox" referrer button!
--
Superb hosting 2400MB Storage, 120GB bandwidth, ssh, $7.95
I think all countries should be working on their own information exchange platforms.
How do you think Dept. of Homeland Security would feel if all of their computers were running on a closed OS manufactured by China?
It's like outsorcing your whole communication infrastructure to a different country.
Foreign countres would do well to consider switching all of their government computation to open source OSs, or developing their own. Firefox and OO are a good start though.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
It's a fucking joke. Sensitivity is fast becoming a reactionary trait, anyway.
Vive la france!
http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
In a related news, U.S. stocks climbed today as shares of office furniture manufacturers like Chairs Inc. (CHR) rose and investors were optimistic that sells are going to increase in the area around Seatle. Based on the latest available data, CHR ended up 39.54 points, or 4.31 percent, at 1,880.95.
. . .can you remember having the same contempt for the french prior to their [justified] opposition to Iraq II?
Dude, they were still French!
KFG
Yeah, so I never called french fries 'freedom fries' or anything stupid like that, but France opposed Iraq II because of oil for food. As far as contempt for France goes, I dislike France just as much as I dislike Texas, Ohio and mopar.
Mostly, I think it's fun to crack jokes about 'stupid Ohio' and things like that. French people smell bad, Texans are dumb, etc. Also, I drive a Chrysler, goddamn mopar crap.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Someone just smashed french, military, and police together in the same sentence, and claims to be an advocate of firefox?!
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
OEM dealer 1: As in every browser of this size, there is a flaw.
Sultan: A flaw?
Gem dealer 2: The slightest flaw, your excellency.
Gem dealer 1: If you look deep into the browser source code, you will perceive the tiniest discoloration. The fix resembles an animal.
Sultan: An animal?
Gem dealer 1: A little fox.
Sultan: Yes! A fox. Come here, Monkey Ballmer. A gift to your father from his grateful people. Some day it will be yours. The most fabulous browser in all the world. Come close...
It's joke, but it's TIRESOME.
I bet you still go around yelling "I'M RICK JAMES, BITCH!" at friends...
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
The thing I find interesting is that their MPs are a separate organization from their normal military.
Oh and good on them for the switch.
Just posted on /. today!!
3 7&tid=154
Is AllPeers FireFox's P2P "Killer App"?
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/04/13442
Cleary the French Police must have seen it and decided to switch!!
It's a fucking joke. Sensitivity is fast becoming a reactionary trait, anyway.
Did you miss Points 1, 4 & 5?Hmmmmn, seems like maybe I realised it was a joke - but wanted a little originality?
Seems like you're a little sensitive about the fact that you've been making the same goddamn joke for the last four years.
My pics.
I use linux as my main desktop since Mandrake 8.2, but use Opera as my browser. But your initial reaction should not have been that negative since this news is a good thing, and people _should_ care about good things!
The reaction you give now also does not answer any question you/I raised...
Dependency hell? =>
God, I'm such a geek! After reading that, all I thought was that you have a recursive list!
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
2a) No, and it probably isn't next year, either. Most people that I have conversations with about such things either believe that it's for the best or don't believe me at all. Unless people stop believing things just because Congress said so, or the TV/newspaper/etc said so (or we replace those with something trustworthy), this attitude is not likely to change. People seem to be too lazy to actually verify what they hear.
;-)
2b) Yes, I can remember having contempt for France for as long as I knew their history. My humor about France hasn't changed in at least 20 years (coincidentally, the period over which I've made jokes at France's expense). My opinion of France went down over Iraq II, but not because they opposed it. It was because of the backroom deals that they were brokering with Iraq. I also oppose the US meddling in foreign governments. If it weren't for the treaties and such that France had agreed to, I wouldn't care that they were making deals with Iraq.
3) You forgot a significant portion of Africa from the list of places with reason to hate France.
1/4/5) I agree! New France jokes would be very amusing.
Seriously, Slashdot is indicitive of the follow-the-leader mentality just as much as Fark, Digg, Kuroshin, or most anywhere else. People like to fit in, they like being modded up, and they're often somewhat afraid of standing out for voicing a different opinion.
BTW - GP was a joke; lighten up!
...Our first goal is to migrate all the upper layers of the workstation to Open Source Software to be independent of the Operating System.(...)
To me, this was the single most interesting line in the entire article. Telling everyone that they must migrate to another operating system in one big step is bound to meet resistance and hassles. Instead they get people familiar with their day-to-day software tools, so that migrating to Linux/OSX/whatever later is largely irrelevant. If people's word processor and email system are still the same, they won't much care what OS is running.
With this strategy Windows loses its special status and becomes just a commodity, providing only storage and network access. It also becomes replacable on a whim (or close to it).
I didn't say I found it funny. Just that making a joke like that doesn't mean you share the political leanings of Pat Buchanan.
I don't get it, just because they refused to send their young men and women into Iraq to fight for basically American politcal interests, folks hated them?! And don't give me this shit about the Iraq war is part of the War on Terror. Show me some evidence that Hussein was in fact harboring terrorists and/or financing them!
You must be kidding. The French were just trying to protect their under the table oil deals. The Americans catch hell over even the possible implication of doing anything for oil. The French do it and it is suddenly "okay". Give me a break.
Did it occur to you that we're making fun of all the people with an irrational hatred of the French, especially by making such an absurd inferrence?
If Bill O'Reilly says "Well, isn't that just like the french to surrender", he's manipulating his audience (if you think O'Reilly is saying something like that because he actually believes it, you're assuming he's a simpleton. I see people do the same thing with Bush- assume he's an idiot, not someone playing the fool and manipulating people.) If someone on slashdot jokes "Well, isn't it just like the French to surrender and use Firefox", they're making fun of people like Bill O'Reilly, not picking on the French.
Then again, complex humor has never been a strong suite on slashdot...
Oh, and you know what? As long as everyone is laughing, I have zero problems with people cracking jokes about each other. I love teasing my friends from Smith about attending a "finishing school", and they enjoy punching me (they hit like girls, so no worries.) As long as everyone stays laughing, it's a way to celebrate our differences. Or something like that. There are way too many people on this world who take everything so seriously and get offended at the drop of a hat.
Please help metamoderate.
Not true. I'm a member of the United States Army Military Police Corp and would like to take this oprotunity to point out that my user ID, while far from impressive, is about 1/4 what yours is!
Or was that supposed to be a joke or something...
Life has many choices. Eternity has two. What's yours?
Because we view the French as the same as us. Plus they aren't a race, there are blacks, muslims, anglos, and more that are French.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
I'm as sick of seeing the same old jokes around here as anyone else with a brain (assuming any of us on Slashdot have brains at all). But I'm referring to your points 2 and 3. It is possible, you know, to poke fun at something without implying your opposition; but then you go on and imply this guy is Dick Cheney in a jester cap based on his one stupid little throwaway comment. Pointless.
I had a hell of a time upgrading 15 users from 1.0.3 to 1.5.
I just didn't find a way to do it reliably and automatically, preserving the few installed extensions and plugins (Flash, QuickTime+ Real Alternative).
In the end, I had to physically go to each computer and check everything, making sure I also checked everybody's roaming profile.
I love Firefox for myself (it's my main browser since it was called Phoenix), but next time I deploy it in a company, it will need to have clear instructions on how to do that without a physical install/configuration/plugins and extensions install/etc.
I don't mind having to write a few Perl scripts to do it, if I can get clear instructions.
If the French military deployed it to 100000 people, maybe they have documented how they did it? Or maybe they just don't know about the upgrade hell yet?
After all, initial install was easy using FFdeploy. It's the upgrades that are a problem
A lot of U.S. Soldiers use Firefox exclusively. Thanks to websites like portableapps I can get Thunderbird and Firefox installed on my flash so I don't have to go through the bother of dealing with out backwards and semi-retarted IA department to get it installed on the machine I use. After showing it off to most of the people I work with and letting them see all of the great plug-ins and extensions that you can add on, plus custom skinning the browser, these guys were sold.
As to the Army as a whole accpting it, your guess is as good as mine. I only showed the more tech-savvy guys Firefox, some of the dudes around here didn't exactly sign their contract as much as put a bite mark on the dotted line, if you catch my drift. I really don't think that they're the ones that are targeted by Firefox - and that very well could be part of the problem. Most IT/IA soldiers that are outside the Linux / Open Source world see things like Firefox as a waltzing bear. Right or wrong, that's a perception that is going to have to be overcome before this is accepted as a standard, or even as a useable piece of software by those outside "the know".
hi mom!
The disliking and jokes of the French go a long way back. Jokes about the snobbish Parisianers go back at least 2 decades, and I recall jokes about the French only being able to win wars outside of their own country, and surrendering for a long time. Plus France did have some real shady deals with Iraq.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
I for one welcome our cliché parroting overlords.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Yeah, that was inddeed supposed to be a jab at the military for not adopting new technology.
Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
Well, I also yell it at strangers.
Oddly enough, what we are talking about here is technically not racism but rather chauvanism.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
French? Military? Success? I'm going to have to stop skimming the articles...
Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
BTW - GP was a joke; lighten up!
Meanwhile, as the Pentagon continues to use Microsoft products, there are unconfirmed reports of torture and rape of civilians at the Redmond headquarters of that company. Not all military jokes are funny, even if they're historically accurate.
5) Profit. You forgot the most important step. :)
Charles Wyble System Engineer
In other news, Steve Ballmer has vowed to Fucking Kill(TM) the French military police.
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
I guess they surrendered to the superiority of Firefox.
Rioters beat their asses so badly they targeted a weaker enemy, an enemy they can beat the M$.
Seriously kicked the Romans Butts many times as Galacia.
Did so again under Charlemange.
Kicked the English's butts under William the conqueror.
Kicked the English's butts again several times during the 100 years war.
Supported the rebels during the American Revolution.
Nearly united europe during the napoleonic wars (then foolishly tried to invade Russia during the winter).
Held off the german forces in WW I
When invaded by germany in WW II, held out just long enough for the British Expiditionary force to sail from Dunkirk.
After WW II the French failed to re-occupy Indochina due to resistance from the formerly US-backed Viet Minh. They pulled out of Indochina in 1954. The US also failed to gain power in Indochina.
Seriously... It's only from 1940 to 1954 that France's military record is any worse than any other, and when you consider what they were up against (USSR was still operating under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact when France was invaded, and on continental europe only France stood against the Axis), they really were no worse.
Personally, I really started to dislike the French as a whole after a trip to Europe. Spaniards, Enlgishmen, Germans, and Italians were all so much nicer than the French. It seemed like the French looked down their noses at us. The Germans seemed a little distant, but that is just how Germans are. I think many French people really think they are better than Americans, and probably everyone else. My wife had the same impression after a recent trip to Paris.
It is too bad that we are not closer with the French, considering our past history.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
That's the job of the police, the guys switching there are the [i]military police[/i] guys
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
I'm of French (Acadian, Cajun) descent. I'm also descended of a freed slave. I joke about both.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
don't mod BOTH posts (mine and the one below) redundant at the same time! Now the joke has vanished!
Your whining is getting pretty fucking old too...
3) Leave the french-hatred to countries that have a reason to hate the french. Like New Zealand or just about anywhere in the South Pacific
The English hate the french the most, we've fought loads of wars, including one that lasted 100 years. So if anyone hates them its us :]
Nyet. In Soviet Russia, you surrender to the French.
That'd be a welcome change.
(I couldn't resist)
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
...
4) Some originality would be nice. Every time there's a French story, its like reading fark.
...
5) Please see points 1 and 5.
Meant to be ironic?
But anyway, yes, people have hated the French for quite a long time. I'm guessing that it started when people hated the French for many of the same reasons people hate Americans now.
... And this shit about we "rescued them in WWII! We owed them one! How about that! ...
v ision
No, we paid that debt in WWI. "On the 4th of July [1917], the 2nd Battalion, 16th Infantry (2-16), paraded through the streets of Paris to bolster the sagging French spirits. At Lafayette's tomb, one of General John J. Pershing's staff uttered the famous words, "Lafayette, we are here!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._1st_Infantry_Di
So, to use *your* phraseology, not mine, they owe us one.
Also, the French government that supported the US was the monarchy, not the current French government. "Current government" as in system of government, not the currenyly elected representatives. Do you think Lafayette would do business with Sadaam and make war on GreenPeace (literally, sink boat, kill member, rescue French agents/assasins from jail)?
Definitely a good win again for FireFox. Microsoft better be focusing on launching something respectful with IE 7. (Did I say Microsoft and respectful in the same sentence? Damn!)
[%] Cingular Ringtones
I'm guessing that 30% of the moderators work for Microsoft and 20% of them are French.
I have no objection to political humor. But unlike other kinds of jokes, I think it's fair game to call political jokes on their accuracy. Nobody ever acts as if they really believe an actual priest, rabbi and minister went into a actual bar (Was the minister Methodist? What were they doing going into a bar?). But they do certainly act as if France was a nation composed entierly of cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Many people use political humor as a cheap way of advancing an unsupportable opinion. They get the same rhetorical and emotional impact as making a substantive argument -- possibly even more. But if they get called on it, they can always fall back on the craven excuse that it was just a joke. In fact, the stupider and less original the joke, the greater the dudgeon, in my experience. Peole whose humor is intelligent and incisive don't need to get defensive.
Giving opinions expressed as humor a pass on accuracy is pretty much an invitation for lies, stupidity and moral cowardice to rule the world, which I think none of us really want.
So, if you make a joke whose premise is that Al Gore thinks he invented the Internet, I think it's fair enough for somebody to challenge the factual accuracy. If I make a joke who's point is that GW Bush is stupid, it's fair enough for you to call me on that as well.
In short, it's one thing to be unoriginal. It's another think to think and act like a sheep. We all know where the sheeps' master intends them to go, in the end.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
That said, I have always been somewhat in awe of two groups - the Allied warriors who fought and won WWII, and the French Free Resistance who daily disregarded personal safety to oppose evil. Granted they were fighting for their own homeland which must have been a marvellous motivating factor, but still . . .
Summary: not all of the French surrendered, just their government.
Eat my shorts
I've fallen and I can't get up.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
Not the momma!
WOOOAAHH
(that last one was Joey from TV's Blossom... what a dreamboat, and jokes age)
-Docvert converts MSWord to OpenDocument, clean HTML
The Gendarmerie Nationale isn't military in the UK/US sense. They are the people who investigate murders and give out speeding tickets on national highways. In other words, it's the police force, it just happens to be set up a bit like an army. (By memory, it's responsible to the interior minister, to counterbalance the power of the defence minister in the case of a coup, but I could be imagining that bit..)
As mascots for bleeding edge Open Source adoption go, we could do better. The best Hollywood portrayal of French policing I have seen is in the Harrison Ford film "Frantic". They have now replaced their manual typewriters with wordprocessors, but to see them use them you wonder why. My favourite experience was taking a tourist to a police station to report a stolen passport. They had a Word template for the report, and someone had saved all the personal details of a rape victim into it, so everyone who reported anything could read all about it.
Of all the reasons suggested here for why they made the move, I haven't seen the most likely one - cost. Certainly there is a drive to get schools here onto open source to reduce licence costs and/or piracy. And the pupils and staff I know really really hate Open Office.
Virtually serving coffee
You can't just add them that way! The 70K that use Firefox likely account for almost all of the 45k that use Tbird, it's very unlikely that anywhere near 100k personnel are involved if there are only 70k Firefox users.
Good numbers still for one organization, but an awful flawed statement to have found it's way into a Slashdot front page. How did this get past our meticulous editors?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Yes, France opposed the war in Iraq because of OFF. Lets look at that logic.
1) How can you claim that it had nothing to do with 75% of the French public opposing the invasion? After all, it's not like leaders in democracies who act contrary to the will of 75% of their populace on major issues tend to have trouble getting reelected.
2) What is the logic of France risking their trade with the US to make a small fraction of the few billion dollars involved in the Oil For Food program? This trade involves 2,400 French subsidiaries in the US employing 500,000 people with 160B$ turnover, and the converse (US subsidiaries in France, which employ 580,000 people with 135B$ turnover). France owns 143B$ of US stock, a fourfold increase in the past decade. The US owns 55B euros of French stock, doubling over the past decade. In 2003, the US imported 23B euros worth of French goods; France imported 22.4B euros worth from America.
3) The oil for food program involved roughly 4-5B$ (over its decade long lifespan) in kickbacks to the *Iraqi government*. Most people here are painfully unaware of how it worked, so let me clarify - it occured just the same way that it happens in third world nations all over the world to enrich the pockets of government officials. An unscrupulous company
offers to sweeten the pot (in this case, to the Iraqi government) by raising their prices artificially. The government selects the contract of the overpriced goods. The company then discretely pays the extra money under the table to the Iraqi government. The company gets the contract, and the kickback-receiving party (the Iraqi government) manages to divert money from protected funds to their pockets.
Many people confuse kickbacks with the accused payoffs of officials. Some payoffs have been confirmed, and resulted in convictions. Others have been proven to be false, and resulted even in successful libel suits against the accusors. Part of the problems in the list of the accused may be the source - it came from the Iraqi Oil Ministry, which at the time was run by the Iraqi National Congress (not exactly a beacon of truthful information). The payoffs tend to be small - usually a few tens to a few hundred thousand dollars (compared to the billions in kickbacks under OFF, and tens of billions in oil smuggling). The highest ranking French official accused is former interior minister Charles Pasqua and his aide Bernard Guillet. Not only has Pasqua denied all of the charges (and is actively working to clear his name), and not only would the interior minister not be prominant in a decision to go to war, but he hasn't even been in office since 1995. There are two other French former officials under investigation - Jean-Bernard Merimee and Serge Boidevaix - but they likewise had not been in office when the alleged crimes took place.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
100,000 personnel over to Firefox and Thunderbird (70,000 and 45,000 respectively)
It was just badly phrased in the summary. The department has 100,000 people working for them, which use a total of 70,000 workstations. Of those workstations, all are being converted to Firefox, and 45,000 of them will also get Thunderbird.
2) I thought 2006 was the year the American public would wake up to the way they're manipulated (can you remember having the same contempt for the french prior to their [justified] opposition to Iraq II?)
Justified? You mean the French Government accepting bribes through the Oil for Food program, and opposing Iraq II so that the bribes would continue and not be discovered?
I don't think manipulated sheeple ever wake up. Sometimes a better manipulator convinces them that they've been manipulated by the existing guy. The new manipulator has their best interests at heart, of course. It is similar for every countries public.
I wonder if people are "Freedom kissing" too?
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
George Bush is stupid.
Al Gore did not invent the Internet.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
(Apart from that I agree with the parent post. The anti-France stuff is just another reminder that a lot of high-school kids post to Slashdot.)
Uh...Dude. France IS a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys
Haven't you ever used google images?
I guess or the just couldn't stand not having the fetures.
can you remember having the same contempt for the french prior to their [justified] opposition to Iraq II?
What, are you serious? Contempt for the French has been an ongoing sport for years - just as French contempt for anything non-French has been! You mistake humor (tired, hackneyed and cliched) for hatred.
And there are probably a million reasons to oppose the Iraq business, but I wonder if the close economic ties that France had with the previous regime in Iraq had anything to do with their opposition.
-h-
I've had the same contempt for the French my entire life that I have now. Iraq II had nothing to do with it thank you very much.
Sorry, really, we surrender! Please don't Fucking Kill(TM) us!!!
I am Spartacus
Concerning all of the French surrender comments, I feel obligated to quote the site http://weblog.blogads.com/comments/514_0_1_0_C/
"World War I cost France 1,357,800 dead, 4,266,000 wounded (of whom 1.5 million were permanently maimed) and 537,000 made prisoner or missing -- exactly 73% of the 8,410,000 men mobilized, according to William Shirer in The Collapse of the Third Republic. Some context: France had 40 million citizens at the start of the war; six in ten men between the ages of eighteen and twenty-eight died or were permanently maimed."
And further down on that page...
"But to be fair to the French. I don't believe a national characteristic of "cowardice" exists. Aside from the pathetic surrender and weak resistance during World War II, the French have actually been quite brave in battle. They were brave in Vietnam (French Indochina), brave in World War I, they played a role in the initiation of the Franco-Prussian War, and throughout history they have been willing to fight heroically even when the odds were against them. It is true that they have had little military success in the last 150 years. But this is due to poor military strategy, faulty equipment, and general bungling, it has nothing to do with French cowardice. Of course, I still can't say much for the half hearted defense of France during World War II. But that is more of the exception than the rule."
Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
5) Please see points 1 and 5.
I think meant "Please see points 1 and 4"
Support the FairTax
It may not be a financial contribution, but it's creating credibility. That's why Microsoft worked hard over Munich. Not because they cared in particular about losing Munich to Linux, but because they feared that a successful Linux implementation would create even more switchers.
Seems the French at least know good browsers.
Yeah, I'm American and I notice a "French-bashing" population here. However, it more had to do with the fact (or percieved fact) that France was very eager to sell weapons and equipment to Sadaam. Also, many Americans have stated the arrogance they faced in Paris. It is a fairly popular opinion, or at least an opinion of the loudest voices, that the French treat the US with hostility and arrogance, such as France's rigid resistance toward English. I can't exactly blame France for trying to protect its national unity, but English is indeed the language of business, thanks to the French archrival, Britain, and thus the French response, creating new "official" words for American products with English names, absolutely disgusts us. Language for the sake of national unity is one valid goal, but language for the sake of pride is just ridiculous. The US's frustration with France really stems from the fact that the US absolutely saved France's posterior in both World War I and World War II. It is said, "if not for English-speakers, French-speakers would be speaking German." That said, the US also sees room to poke fun at France for its failures in military, being only marginally successful when being led by Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte. The other American criticism of France is its outspoken criticism of the US going to war, as if the UN Security Council had to absolutely approve the war. In fact, each country is still allowed to act in its own interests; the US asked the UN, and upon denial, struck anyway. Back home, many of us, including myself, believe that WMD should never have been used as a reason for war. The US's interests were indeed the fight against radical islam, but psuedocauses were leaked out of the White House on many occasions, leading Americans and the world to believe that Bush acted for the sake of oil (which is absurd; we could simply invade Venezuela for oil) or other causes . The US really wished to blackmail Saudi Arabia and threaten Libya, Syria, and other nations sponsoring radical islamic terrorism. Everyone honestly thought that Sadaam did indeed have WMD, including the French and the Germans. You mentioned Sweden's opposition, but keep in mind that Sweden is a historically Neutral country since the Viking ages and that they were no outspoken critic, as France and Germany were. Of course, you raise a valid point about Chirac. In Germany, a new ruling coalition is much more in favor of US policy, and Chirac's slide of popularity is indicating a much more US-friendly government in France at the next election. I mentioned that I am not a Bush fan, and I am almost certain that after this term, his party will not get a reelection. Hope I provided some insight into how America feels. I don't really justify the hateful anti-French messages, but I do occasionally poke fun. :-X
1) Originality, you must be new here.
2) No, that would mean being wrong.
3) We/I quite like the French. Even if they did Nuke an atoll and blow up a Greenpeace boat in our waters. Americans should like the French because if they hadn't gone to war with Britain, America would probably never have been around for more than a decade.
4) Fark = Forces Armées Royales Khmères?
5) nasty loop that one.
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
This post should have been modded Funny rather than Insightful. 1) The only time they kicked the Romans butts was in the "Asterix and Obelix" Comics. Just to remind you, old time Gaul was where a certain Julius Caesar made his fame and fortune, thereafter becoming a nice little playground for the Romans for several centuries. 2) By the time Charlemagne appeared on the scene (mid-700s), the Western Roman Empire was long gone (as were the Romans themselves). 3) I think a certain guy with one good eye on a boat and a "Spanish ulcer" also played part in putting paid to Napoleon's territorial ambitions. Still, at least he got to see the Sphinx. 4) Held off the Germans in WW1? And what about the other members of the Alliance- where they mere observers? Just because the French were dumber than the British in wasting the lives of their nationals (despite Hague's best efforts), doesn't mean they held off the Germans on their own. 5) Held out against the Nazis while the BEF escaped? Yes, some French soldiers were there, just like some British soldiers were, but if you have anyone to thank for the miracle of that evacuation, it would be Goering and his ego. In your last line, you say that "on continental Europe, only France stood against the Axis". Absolute tosh! Most countries had resistance networks, just like the French. As a matter of fact, some of them, like the partisans under Tito actually managed to do a decent job of fighting against the Germans. Bleh!
The entire cast of Friends declared their undying support for Linux.
:)
Really, sure, it's cool, but does is this really worthy of calling "news?" There are many people using Firefox. It's growing, especially with the new marketing campaign as well as the new version out. It's a great browser. But I saw the headline and really thought "who cares?"
If there's an "insensitivity" mod, feel free to mod me down for it.
The quote that I found while searching says:
;-)
1534 Jul 24, Jacques Cartier landed in Canada and claimed it for France. Jacques Cartier while probing for a northern route to Asia visited Labrador and said: "Fit only for wild beasts... This must be the land God gave to Cain." [see May 10]
(NG, V184, No. 4, 10/1993, p. 4)(MC, 7/24/02)
1534 May 10, Jacques Cartier reached Newfoundland.
(CFA, '96, p.46)
(Credit to http://timelines.ws/)
And yes, there definitely could be a few jokes about poutain, but you'd have to know some French to really get it.
Seriously. It's about time someone challenges the propaganda surrounding OFF.
Also, every tautology is a tautology.
Mozilla Firefox just sounds better with a fake french accent than Internet Explorer does.
Now that one is so much better then the standard french joke around here, and nice placed in context.
Go slashdot we can do it!
What power has law where only money rules.
No, france opposed the war because of the French Military-Industrial complex. Did you miss the fact that the Iraqi airforce (when it existed) was made up French Mirage's? Or that if sanctions ended, it would be french oil companies set to make billions from Iraqi (and Iranian oil)?
In addition to being a bunch of CESMs, they have just as much corporate influence as the US does. Don't pretend they opposed the war on some hippy peace loving principles. Hussein was practically an ally of theirs.
You know, don't mix Parisians and the rest of the country -- Parisians have that bad (sometimes justified) reputation as rude and snob people even in France ;-)
Of course, with the recent tensions between US and France, some stupid people can be ruder than usual -- stupidity is sadly international, as those freedom fries thing proved it.
It's amazing that the people who whine that we saved France in WWII so conveniently forget that Soviet Russia saved our asses in that same war... If it wasn't for the 20 million Russians who died fighting Hitler, who knows how much more bloody that war would have been for Americans.
After all, it's not like leaders in democracies who act contrary to the will of 75% of their populace on major issues tend to have trouble getting reelected.
Uh, this is the act situation Japanese PM Koizumi found himself in.
He got re-elected just fine, despite leading Japan into a war 75%+ of its populace didn't want to get into.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
Inspector Clouseau has replaced the dinosaur as the official FireFox French Police Edition Mascot.
Not from the coast. From the great state just a bit to the north of flat ol' Ohio. Haha, stupid Ohio.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Nitpick: muslim is not a race. Your point is valid, tho.
s lim&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+mu
No sig
(1) Cheese eating. When I invite business associates out to dinner here in the US at a typical chain like Chillis, the thing they're sure to remark on is the enormous amount of cheese in the American diet. I correct them and tell them it isn't cheese, it's "Pasteurized Cheese Food Product".
(2) Surrender monkeying. Not the American way I agree. Declare victory and get the hell out is more like it.
Conclusion: we're not that different from the French. Just fonder of artificial.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
But in the end, lost. Germans slaughtered the Romans in the Teuteburg Forest, kept their independence. The French lost their language -- modern French is mutilated Latin -- and the good things about French cooking were introduced by the Romans.
Did so again under Charlemange.
Whose capital was in Aachen, Germany -- the empire was as much German as it was French.
Kicked the English's butts under William the conqueror.
Er, no. The Normans kicked English ass, in other words, those parts of France that were of Scandinavien decent. So, the Vikings kicked French ass, and the children of the Vikings invaded England.
Kicked the English's butts again several times during the 100 years war.
Now, this one is downright silly. The English owned half of France for most of that war, and the Battle of Poitiers was one of the worst military defeats in history. The French even let the English capture their king! Then, when Joan of Arc comes to rescue them, the French burn her at the stake.
Supported the rebels during the American Revolution.
Which, from their point of view, was a really, really stupid move because the American influence on France helped pave the way for the French Revolution.
You're missing an entry here: Bungled their Revolution, thereby giving democracy a bad reputation in Europe that would remain for more than 100 years.
Nearly united europe during the napoleonic wars (then foolishly tried to invade Russia during the winter).
This one is pretty sick -- this is sort of like saying the Nazis nearly united Europe (note: I am not comparing Nazi war crimes to what Napoleon did). Conquest doesn't count as unification. Well, unless you win, of course...but there we are again, right?
Held off the german forces in WW I
And afterwards made a point of humiliating Germany so badly that it didn't take much for the Germans to really want to get them. Technically you are right, but still not France's finest hour.
When invaded by germany in WW II, held out just long enough for the British Expiditionary force to sail from Dunkirk.
This one, again, is downright silly. Compared to how the Dutch and the Norwegeans fought, the French rolled over and played dead. For every Frenchman in the Resistance, there was one happily supporting the Nazis. The French spent the time before the war telling themselves how great they were instead of paying attention to military advances.
You forgot: Lost badly against Prussia. Created a slaughter in Algeria. Lost a war in Indochina (but then, who hasn't).
Now, strangely enough I actually agree with the original poster that French bashing is getting sort of old, and their opposition to the Second Gulf War turned out to be very much the right choice. They said there were no WMD, and they were right, and we were wrong, and now our kids are dying in Iraq for a lie, and their kids aren't. Chalk this one up for the French.
But that does not mean that we need to pretend that French military history is anything other than a fiasco all the way through. The did good things in literature, had some great scientists, some people even like their food. But great fighters, no. Those were one country further east.
Actually, France was not eager to sell weapons/equipment to Saddam (do /France on http://bushlies.net/pages/9/index.htm). And, in case you forgot, the US sponsored Saddam's government until ~1990 and even the Taliban while the Russians were in Afghanistan. There was no radical Islam in Iraq - Saddam's government, like many dictatorships, tried to quench religious forces to maintain absolute power. France and Germany were not the only countries to oppose the Iraq war, practically every country except the US and Britain did and there were protests worldwide. Try to get some facts right - the reason a lot of people dislike the US is not anything that happened years before most of us was born but rather the fact that many people seem to have no idea about what the country is doing yet it's one of the countries that needs the most direction to do things right due to sheer size and power.
Anyway, in response to:
I'd have to say "yes, but for unrelated reasons.""Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
1). I'll rephrase. Oil for food was a *major* reason France-the-country opposed the war in Iraq. I'm not sure France-the-people were real worried about the oil.
2). You really think French opposition to the war would put trade with the U.S. at risk? Trade with right wing nuts maybe, but not the U.S. in general.
3). I'm not talking about the oil for food scandal, I'm talking about the oil. As long as it got its oil, France was happy to let Iraq go on being what it was.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
No kidding. Just because Charles de Gaulle was a jackass is no reason to insult all French people. Without France's help the US would have never won our Revolutionary War. The French people gave us the Statue of Liberty which is in my opinion the greatest gift from one people in a country to those in another in the history of civilization.
I hope the world would not blame all of us for W being a jack ass nor think we are all like him. I am an old fashioned conservative and I hate the SOB. Lets not keep blaming our first ally for one jerky leader.
And I was waiting for the Americans to dismantle their Statue of Liberty and send it back to the French.......
Yes, there's a long history of cheese eating, surrender monkey jokes in America. You must be new here.
The Farewell Tour II
If it wasn't for the 20 million Russians who died fighting Hitler, who knows how much more bloody that war would have been for Americans.
If it were not for the US even more Russians would have died *and* they probably would have lost the war as well. The US and Russia most likely saved each other, it was mutual. Without US supplies and weapons Russia probably would not have prevailed, the Germans may very well have pushed them over the Urals and set up an effective defense of the mountain passes to prevent their return. In turn this would have freed many troops for the western front and the success of an allied invasion of the continent becomes very questionable. Hollywood to the contrary, it seems as though the allied victory in the west was not a sure thing. Alternatively without the US an invasion of the continent becomes highly unlikely and German troops could have been redeployed from the west to the eastern front to face the Russians.
Victory in Europe was a complicated collaboration between the US, Russia, Britain, etc. Make any significant change and the outcome would probably be terribly different.
I think I'll switch to Firefox.
Actually I already had contempt for the French, for a number of reasons.
1) During the Reagan years they refused to allow our planes from England to overfly France when on the bombing run to Libya. (Oh boy, I know the flames will start now mentioning Reagan)
2) They have this incessant demand that the French language be above all others. I might be mistaken, but I thought French was supposed to be the official language of the UN.
3) The fact is the US has bailed their butts out in two world wars and they are still arrogant (not that we aren't, but I have no problem with conceit if you can back it up).
4) Ever been a tourist in France and tried to speak the language (poorly)? The get rude. At least when I was in Germany and tried speaking German, the waitresses and store clerks might have laughed at my attempts, but they were kind enough to switch to English and help me understand my linguistic mistakes.
Frankly, the only thing I credit France with was aiding a young United States in it's war of independence against the British. But that was really more a situation of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
for a public lab what you describe would be fine
for a situation where people are forced to use one setup like it or not it would also work.
and same for a situation where you can get away with riding roughshod over users setups again fine.
the issue the gp was asking about was how to upgrade firefox remotely whilst preserving user settings.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
How bad is your reading comprehension? Nowhere in the articledoes it say that they "have moved 100,000 personnel" to Firefox and Thunderbird. That's a mistake on the Slashdot frontpage.
The article states that they have over 100,000 personnel and that they have moved 70k to Firefox and 45k to Thunderbird. I'd be willing to bet that there's nearly 100% overlap in those two numbers.
Even so, this is one of the largest deployments I've read about, so good for them. It's good to see more organizations moving away from the MS hegemony.
Do you think the IT guy signed up to adsense for the $1 per install before starting the rollout?
... can you remember having the same contempt for the french prior to their [justified] opposition to Iraq II?
Yes.
In summer 1998 some French exchange studnets were staying at a friends house. They had funny accents, ate jam sandwiches and smoked alot, but they seemed okay. At the end of the summer, I went along with my friend to send them off, and before they boarded the airplane, one of them shouted "Fuck America!" to the people in the terminal, and his cohorts repeated the sentiment after him. Then, I thought to myself, "That was really....French"
The real path to male liberation
The French citizenry is no more or less suceptible to government manipulation than any other country, including the US. If it is fashionable to 'dislike' the US, so that some may profit, then that is what they will push.
If, OTOH, it was profitable to 'like' the US, then you would have heard cries of "NATO" "WWII Allies" "We must keep western civilization together!"
As far as France (and Russia) being major trading partners with Iraq....last I heard, the US doesn't sell Mirage or MiG jets. Or T-72 taanks. Or spare parts for same.
actually it's poutine. putain is french for whore.
N
seems to have misplaced his
This won't stand. Speaking as one of those descendants of Normans, I am very proud of my French ancestry. As for the rest of your tired, old, tedious, racist rant, here is an apt rebuttal. The attention of the audience is drawn in particular to the terms "ungrateful", and "ignorant", both of which apply fully in their rich buttery goodness to you, you troll.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
How bad is your comment writing? You didn't state that it was a bad blurb in your original post. Your post was only about numbers. Your counter-argument is null and void.
Less people sitting means invariably more people walking. More people walking means more people need more shoes, more often. Demand goes up, supply goes up. Q&A on the shoes drops as volume increases. Minimum wage stays the same, as poor schmucks trod the streets of metropolitan American cities looking for work to feed their families.
Shoes become the only business model that makes sense, what with all of the layoffs and such. It remains the only self-sustaining business in America, while everything else dies a slow and outsourced death.
I am in fact very grateful for the French support for the American Revolution, and the Louisiana Purchase, and a whole host of other things that France did for the United States. This does not change the fact that they were, from a French point of view, unbelievably stupid. Helping the Colonies against the British doomed French monarchy, and giving away the whole center part of the continental USA is was even more short-sighted than the Russians selling Alaska.
The definition of when the Normandy became French is a bit more tricky than you make it seem. At the time, they were not considered French, and later, they were technically part of England, which was what the Hundred Year's War was all about. The only view that makes sense is looking at what the people thought at the time, not what we think of them being today. For the record, if you have Norman blood, we share ancestors, which makes your (rather offense) claim of rascism a bit silly. For all you know, I might be sitting in Quebec.
Your link is interesting, but one-sided, too. For example, Joan of Arc was of course as great as they come, but this is not the point. The point is what happened to her once she had been used. The point is also not if the French could have won against the Wehrmacht -- as your text correctly points out and I never disputed, nobody could have, and in the end it took a Russian winter and 20 million dead Soviets. The question here was how hard they tried, which is why I referred to the Netherlands and Norway. Both punched far above their weight. France didn't.
Oh, and one more thing: Don't take this stuff personally.
Heck, and he probably could do it too!
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
Incorrect. Japan has never had the level of opposition to troop deployment that most European countries had. Interestingly enough, it largely depends on the wording of the poll - most Japanese disapproved of the war, but supported sending the SDF for humanitarian reasons.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
The US's frustration with France really stems from the fact that the US absolutely saved France's posterior in both World War I and World War II.
If you ignore Britain's rather more substantial contribution to that effort.
And if you want to look to long-past wars, you might consider the American Revolution, where France rather handily pulled America's bacon out of the fire.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
Yeah, I seem to recall Americans having contempt for the French [continuously over half a century] before their opposition to the invasion of Iraq, what exactly leads you to believe that we were manipulated into it in any way? I tend to think it's the natural result of them being the only nation with a higher prevalence of ignorant, arrogant jackasses than us. America's supposed to have the highest pretentious idiot population, ya silly French folk, quit showing us up!
...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
I hear you except for the second point. What exactly makes you think that US companies would give up profitable business arrangements in France just because we didn't have troops in the same war? Hello, nation designed by businessmen calling, we'd like to leave a message for reality, tell him to call us back when he gets back in.
...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
Britain could not stop the Germans in either World War. In fact, if the British and the French of the time had accepted Wilson's plan for peace as the Treaty of Versailles, World War II would likely never have happened. Also, the Allies were for a time losing the first World War. The American entrance in retaliation to the German provocation as well as the Zimmerman telegram (admittedly provided by the British secret service) tipped the scales of the war in favor of Allied forces, especially with a revolution and pull-out of Russia. In WWII, Germany nearly obliterated the UK, though America could have definitely learned from the British knowledge base. I don't recall, however, seeing that the British stopped the Germans from invading France in 18 days. The British seemed to buy that argument about the Ardennes forest. Ironically, Blitzkrieg was originally thought of by a French guy (and they were too proud to enact it). I also didn't see the French or the British laying down the law on the Germans after they signed the Treaty of Versailles (the US became very isolationist afterward and did not even ratify the treaty). History has all but proven that Hitler's rise stemmed from punishment of the Germans following World War I. Without the US in either World War, Britain would have put up a strong fight, but there is as good a chance the Central/Axis powers would have been victorious. As for the American Revolution, you are indeed correct. This is no small contribution, but when we returned the favor in World War I and II and then in Vietnam (after which we were deserted by the French) the French government outspokenly criticizes the US so they can sell weapons and equipment to a ruthless dictator? Also keep in mind that early in the US's history, the French provocated war on the US in several instances, such as the XYZ affair. The French simply do not have superb military gift. The British and the Americans combined make up the force to win wars, but Britain needed external man-power and equipment in World War II, especially after the air-raids by the Nazis. Britain contributing "substantially more" is outrageous; only after US involvent in both World Wars, did the Allied powers come out ahead.
"you might consider the American Revolution, where France rather handily pulled America's bacon out of the fire."
And we'd appreciate it a lot more if the precursors to the current french state had not, you know, chopped off the heads of all of the members of the state that provided us naval assistance.
...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
There are reasons for war, but they are usually not good enough reasons. In the case of Iraq, they are not definitely not good enough. Aiding a rebellion/revolution is very different from helping fight in the same. For example, the US has a history in supplying anyone willing to pay; this is acceptable. The US has a history of committing troops to foreign civil wars; this is not acceptable.
You go to war when the loss of life helps to guarantee the lives of more than you may lose. You go to war when you feel the cause is worthy of loss of life. I disagree with forcing people to fight in a war that they don't believe in. This is why I am incredibly opposed to any form of draft or conscription. There were good reasons for the US Revolution and the US Civil War, for example.
You don't go to war because you dislike a country, a leader, or a government, and you certainly don't go to war for profit. All of those things are examples of reasons that are not good enough. I am willing to fight for my countrymen and for my freedom, but I'm not willing to put my life on the line for someone in another country that isn't willing to do the same, and I'm certainly not willing to kill for that. Some people are willing, and power to them to be free to exercise that will. Likewise, power to people that object and speak out about others doing that.
In the case of the Iraqi conflict, part of that is due to terrorism, a large part is due to Hussein double-crossing the US, and another large part is for oil. I'd say that the US government is playing the humanitarian, but seeking profit and revenge. It had justification through the UN resolution on Iraq, for what that's worth, so it was no illegal action, as many purport. I'd hold that it is unconstitutional for the US Federal government to take the action, but it was legal under UN rules, and that's what people tend to talk about.
There is a lot of corruption, but look for it in the places that it actually lies. If you look at the history the Western world has with Iraq, and with the history that the US has there, in particular, you find all that you need.
Visit Platinum Bucks at booth 1115 at Internext, the trade show for porno sites. Tomorrow through Sunday at the Venetian in Las Vegas.
It's been conventional wisdom in the porno site business that supporting IE was good enough. The customer base for porno sites is not tech-savvy. Apparently Firefox has now achieved enough market share to change that.
Vive le Resistance!
Finally, France has changed alot since the riots. They seem to be getting their act togeather instead of letting us English-speaking people make fun of them. Seriously, this is a positive thing.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
> Many brave French citizens died resisting the Nazis. Unfortunately, just as many were assisting the Nazis. The rest were just ducking for cover.
In WWII the French lost 212,000 military personnel and 267,000 civilians. In the whole of the war in Europe the USA lost 131,000 military personnel. In the whole of the ward they lost 11,000 civilians.
Even in your despisement of the French you ought to use some facts in your argument.
And as has been said in other posts, it was the USSR that saved Europe. America, as in WW1, was late into the war. It only joined the war when it was attacked. Previously it had been selling dysfunctional destroyers to the allies and extracting territory in payment.
It's not just French. For instance, being Australian, I notice that every time Australia is mentioned in a story, the same convict, crocodile and Simpsons' toilet jokes are rolled out, and duly modded as "insightful" and "funny". And Indians of course get all the "outsourcing" gibes. Then Americans wonder why they're not universally loved. "They hate us because we're free." No, we hate you because you piss on the world. (Regardless, some of my best friends are American....)
Damn Frenchies, blowing up my boat.
My Mommy says smoking kills. Oh, is your Mommy a doctor? No. A scientific researcher of some kind? No. Well then sh
Probably, but they aren't reading these comments ;)
--Joey
According to the French Ambassador in the US, France accounted for only 8% of oil purchases under OFF. The biggest recipient of Iraqi oil under OFF was the US which purchased 44% of OFF oil. Granted, he's not exactly neutral in this, yet I can't find any "official sounding" sources stating otherwise (no, O'Reilly and Coulter don't count)
Iraq never was a BIG business partner of France. They bought a nuclear plant and some fighter aircrafts in the 80's when they were the West's ally against Iran. That's it. This whole portraying of France as a sinister backer of despots has very little to do with facts and a lot to do with squelching dissenting voices.
It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
No, we paid that debt in WWI. "On the 4th of July [1917], the 2nd Battalion, 16th Infantry (2-16), paraded through the streets of Paris to bolster the sagging French spirits.
Meanwhile, French and British soldiers were being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands in the trenches. Luckily for the US, Lafayette did a little more than parading through the streets of Yorktown to bolster the sagging American spirit. He and his troops actually fought and won the actual battle.
Listen, it was nice of the US to join WWI, but let's not blow this out of proportions. Google for WWI casualties. The first result gives the following numbers : France 1,359,000 dead; Britain 658,700 dead; US 58,480 dead. WWI was a blood bath. France lost more soldiers in those 4 years than the US lost in its whole history.
If you visit France one day, try a little experiment. Choose any random village in the countryside, 500 souls or so. Somewhere, between the town hall and the church, you'll find a monument to the dead of WWI. Now count the names. You'll never find a place with less than 50 dead. And that does not include the wounded. 1,359,000 dead and 4,200,000 wounded out of a total population of maybe 35 millions at the time. Half of all French males between 18 and 50 were a casualty of that bloody war. No family was spared.
I think friends should not keep a detailed accounting of what they did for each other. Every French is thankful for US support in WWI, it certainly helped and hastened the war's end. But since you're in this "we owe / they owe" mood, I don't think Pershing's late involvement in WWI was as decisive as Lafayette's involvement in the US independance war.
Last, you seem to regret the time of French monarchy. I, for one, am happy for my American friends that they live under a republic rather than a monarchy.
And if you allow me a piece of advice. Look for reasons to like other people, not for reasons to hate them, you'll live a happier life.
It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
France did have some real shady deals with Iraq.
Not true.
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France was very eager to sell weapons and equipment to Saddam
As any weapons producer to any oil producer. And until when? As far as we heard, even in the Washington Times, no recent French weapon system was found in Iraq, e.g. nothing had been sold after Iraq War I. Please do not mention this legend about one captured Roland 3 anti-aircraft missile launcher: the sole difference with the Roland 2 lied mainly in the software, it dated back to 1990 and was never produced (remained at prototype...).
France's rigid resistance toward English.
You mean you've found a field where Frogs do not surrender? But you are even wrong. You should work in our big enterprises, look at the ads, to just realise that it's plain wrong. The marketting guys and the big brass are fully converted to the "US-English rules the world" cause. And their propaganda machine fills our brains, with trash TV, boys bands and SUVs.
creating new "official" words for American products with English names, absolutely disgusts us.
Why? Talk of arrogance... I do concede "mél" was the silliest word crafted by the Académie Française, but the Quebecq "courriel" that was adopted since is very good. And it saves us from "mail", which is simply false but widely used for E-mail.
the US absolutely saved France's posterior in both World War I and World War II
Not in WW I, not at all. US help was... helpfull, paid for for most of it, late, minor in terms of military might. It was probably a great morale boost meanwhile, and God knows that matters in times of war.
WW II. Thanks to the British, the US, the Russians. In that order. At least where the brits our ally from the start, even if their numbers in 1939-40 on French soil was well under what they had agreed. The main issue lied in France itself: stupid military doctrine, poor political elite. And the people wanted to avoid to wage another war with Germany, such were the sufferings of WW I. Many thanks anyhow to the GIs, and especially to Eisenhover.
marginally successful when being led by Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte.
How funny.
its outspoken criticism of the US going to war, as if the UN Security Council had to absolutely approve the war.
The UN was created with much US clout to help avoid wars, mind you. Especially greed driven and imperialistic ones. So, what's the issue? Do you contend the UN inspectors have called Saddam's bluff before the security council? Re-read serious accounts please.
each country is still allowed to act in its own interests
Not by waging wars. No. Definitely no. That's one thing many people around the world despise very much. Are you allowed to seize your neighbour's house with a gun if it is in yout interest? I doubt it.
invade Venezuela for oil
There was a US-sponsored coup there some time ago, remember? It failed.
fight against radical islam
As did Saddam in Iraq?
The US really wished to blackmail Saudi Arabia and threaten Libya
This I can believe. But why not by using personnal relationship with the Saudis? They are excellent as far as we know! And do you not think that Lybia was already scared? Anyway, threatenning Lybia was probably the best achievment of this conflict. It probably could have been done another way. Reagan did it another way. And there are even persistent assertions in the French military saying that US planes indeed flew over France to do it, even if France publicly ruled it out...
everyone honestly thought that Sadaam did indeed have WMD, including the French and the Germans.
Where have you read that except in the US press? Everyone supposed Iraq _could_ possibly have had the idea to set up new programs. Hence the UN inspectors, that steadily came back before the UN security council saying "Saddam does not prove he has no more weapons, but he cooperates better and better, and we have found nothin
I am not Remy Mouton, unfortunately: http://remy.mouton.free.fr/art/
1/4/5) I agree! New France jokes would be very amusing. ;-)
:-)
Ok, here's one ( I'm allowed to do french jokes because I'm french
A white bear, a crocodile and a tiger meet to have a drink. The white bear starts, "So, where are you going on holidays? Me and my wife, we'll go to the North Pole. It's cold, it's icy, and as we have a big fur, we love this place!".
Mr. Tiger answers, "We're going to Amazonia. My wife and I love the jungle, so we think that's the best place we can go to!".
And the crocodile answers, "Heh, I have a grande gueule, my wife has a grande gueule, and French people have grandes gueules. So, we're going to France!".
blah
Tiens ? les américains sont comme Bush. Ils sont aussi cons. ^_^
Are they enjoying the switch?
I'd like to see some comments from the police employees who have been made to switch. I regularly use Firefox and Thunderbird (although I primarily use Konqueror and KMail for business) but I have friends and clients who refuse to switch or have made the switch on a trial basis, only to go back to Outlook+IE later. The main reason being "they don't like it" / "they're not used to it" / "doesn't display this [in]correctly", etc, etc.
I've no doubt this switch to open source will be a good thing in the long run for the French police and many other organisations, but it interests me how the employees deal with it, do they find it frustrating and so on? If so, does it end up having a negative effect on work flow, etc?
You didn't state that it was a bad blurb in your original post.
I didn't write that post.
*sigh* Another debate with a hint of french in it turns into a flamewar about the Iraq-war.
I don't get it. Now that Bush has admitted that the information that the US based their war on did not hold water, isn't is obvious that the french were right and the bush-administration wrong? (not talking details here, but the whole general direction of the pre- and post- Iraq-war). Kinda feels like the only country the Bush-administration were able to trick was USA. All the others just went along either because they could benefit or because the feared "punishment" or bad relations to the US. All western-Europe countries sure knew Bush lied.
I think the french-bashing Americans owe an apology to the french for giving them a hard time.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217. cfm c le/2005/10/11/AR2005101101384.html
2 3967,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti
http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,13
I'm not saying other countries weren't involved in the same thing (they were, Russia is notable, there were even Americans caught up in scandal) but France did have some shady deals, and some corruption.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
Next!
There's nothing like a good gunfight to uplift the spirit--Calvin
I was replying to that post.
6 feet wide? That was an American.
<ducks>
1. Easieast to use of all browser (as it comes out of box)
2. Well balanced features - there is much more than in Internet explorer 6. Someone might miss something, but what most people need is in there
3. Extensions - for guys that miss something there are several hundreds of free add-ons, and often if you get used to them, you can't live without them.
4. Visual customization - easier and more complete than in other browsers.
5. Very fast - specially when compared to Internet explorer.
6. Best solution for annoyances - more proof than any other browser on viruses, pop-ups, worms, etc.
If you're not using Firefox, you should be.
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Keylogger killed my marriage, but saved my life.
2)Occasionally when multiple tabs are open the program seems to hang up. Not sure if this is a product of the web pages themselves or a bug.
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Keylogger killed my marriage, but saved my life.