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NASA Overjoyed at Catch From Stardust
mknewman wrote to mention a New York Times report that the Stardust project has exceeded NASA scientist's expectations. From the article: "While they had expected mostly microscopic samples, the researchers said, a surprising number of the particles were large enough to be seen with the naked eye ... The cargo in the Stardust's sample container, which was opened Tuesday, 'was an ancient cosmic treasure from the very edge of the solar system,' Dr. Brownlee said. Scientists believe that these particles are the pristine remains of the material that formed the planets and other bodies some 4.6 billion years ago."
The cigarette brand West sponsored the russian cosmonaut training center in the 90s.
When the Russians delivered the supply module for the ISS, the rocket carrying the module had a "Pizza hut" logo on the side.
When MIR dropped into the ocean, Taco Bell placed a 40*40 feet large floating target in the supposed drop zone and claimed free Taco Bell for all US citizens if parts of MIR hit the target.
Maybe Hoover could sponsor NASA expeditions.
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Did they pick up any of their space trash while they were out there?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
It's excellent that we'll have a chance to study this material close up. Metorites are valuable, but this Stardust material is even more precious, because it will give us a look at unformed planetary material that was not likely ever part of a planetary body. Some of the meteorites we've studied may have been part of a smashed planet, or mal-formed planet, but comet material could have very interesting molecular structures I predict.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
What steps has NASA taken to isolate the collected sample before analysis?
...some 4.6 billion years ago.
Of course they really mean about 6000 years ago.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
...when the lead scientist sneezes on it.
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
This is great news! I love seeing space success stories out in the public eye. Perhaps such missions will be an inspiration to the next generation of potential explorers. There's just something cool about space...
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FTA: Dr. Brownlee said the $212 million cost of the 10-year Stardust project was a bargain considering the amount of knowledge it should provide about the origins of the solar system and Earth. "The way I like to look at it," he said with a laugh, "it's the same cost as a well-paid baseball player over a 10-year period."
No, I think they're overjoyed and saying "wow, we actually made something that frickin worked for a change instead of either burning up in the atmosphere or cratering straight into the ground!"
Let's hope this is the start of a "winning streak" for NASA.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
I read TFA before posting. All it did was make me mad at baseball, too...
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
If a 14-inch wide collector accumulated hundreds of humanly-visible samples in 195 days of travel - including at least one that caused a trace "large enough to put a small finger through", then any hope for high-speed space travel is really going to need excellent shielding. Statistically, it would seem very likely to encounter objects with sufficient mass to cause damage at high relative speeds. It might be interesting to see what a comparable flight through "clear space", and not near a comet would yield.
They look great from my back yard. Just saw New Horizons go off and it was a blast :) Saw the last shuttle also. Now that I can see the rockets I have become a big fan of launches. So what about 1/2 billion here, 3/4 billion there. It's fun. Anyway, I don't where these scientists get their patience, New Horizons will take 12 years! Sheesh! Well between the billion dollar launches I shoot off vineger and baking soda rockets with my 5 year old. They are a lot of fun also.
Gizmos Gagets For Ninjas
With the all the recent news of organisms being able to survive in space, survive shuttle crashes, and all sorts of other crazy environments, we really ought to be careful what we bring back to Earth. I'm all for the advancement of science, and I think this particular experement is incredibly cool (both from a "what we can learn scientifically" standpoint, as well as a "holy crap, you guys were able to do WHAT??" standpoint), it'd really suck if we don't take the proper precautions, and wind up bringing back some organism that can wipe out all life on Earth. That being said, way to go NASA!
http://nemilar.net - It's just a blog.
NASA used the newer type of AeroGel to capture the dust particles. For those who don't know, AeroGel is an ultra-low density solid. The NASA AeroGel is an Alumina gel comprised of 99.8% air. The type that NASA used was Nickel-alumina, and they laced it with gadolinium and terbium so that space particles would cause the impact sight to glow under the correct conditions. (Some great photos of the foggy stuft at: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/photo/aerogel.html)
Apparently, NASA is considering allowing civilians to search for space particulates through the web, scowering over hundreds of thousands of enlarged photographs. Its expected that NASA will announce plans for the program soon.
Interesting links:= 1019 - Latest NASA Newse dia/jsc2006e00886.html - When The Capsule First Returnedc fm - Podcasts and Videos
http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/webcam.html - NASA Webcam
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stardust/multim
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/stardust-multimedia.
ok. those are the large samples... if you want to help nasa (or nsa) compute the stardust microscope data (or echelon data) you can do that soon on Stardust@Home
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A massive jello-like object was reported in downtown Houston today, reportedly devouring eveything in it's path and growing exponentially. When asked for comment, scientists at Nasa's Johnson Space Center had this to say:
"Hey, doesn't that look like that little booger-looking thing Johnson said he found in the Stardust Capsule?"
"What? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the constant beeping of my bullshit detector..."
Reminds me of the hilarious Simpsons quote:
News Reporter: "(reporting on a space launch) Unbelievable, and just imagine the logistics of weightlessness. And of course, this could have literally millions of applications here on Earth -- everything from watchmaking to watch repair."
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
I would sell NASA dust for $1 Million
Uncontaminated space dust from the tail of a comet? I think not. Even if you tried you wouldn't even be able to get a hold of that. And that is precisely why it cost Nasa $212 Million. The price is justified.
My page.
There's a pyramid of knowledge, with maybe baseball at the bottom, and the Stardust mission somewhere at the top. The top of the pyramid can get surprisingly large funding, because the scientists that are pushing for research at the top have some of the most economically valuable skills.
Maybe you sit somewhere in the middle of the pyramid, with baseball too simple, and stardust too sophisticated for your interest. Don't worry, there's funding for the stuff you care about too. But if people with advanced skills say "let us do X because that interests us" please let them too.
"Dr. Brownlee said some of the tracks in the aerogel might have been left by ice particles that later evaporated. If such cavities are found, he said, they may contain residue of the ice and its constituents." I wonder why they wouldnt have had the sample canister land in the frozen desert of Antarctica or some other area where ice samples would remain solid? Obviously they would stay cold enough during the return trip from the comet to preserve them, all it would entail is enough heat shielding to maintain the cold temperature during descent.
Too bad BHA isn't around to see this.
sulli
RTFJ.
Who you jivin' with this cosmic debris?
(leave my nose alone, please...)
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Heh heh. As a space exploration advocate, I was going to pick on you, but that was pretty funny.
The spacecraft flew with a 14-inch-wide collector that resembled a tennis racket and was filled with aerogel, a silicon material composed of 99.8 percent air.
As I recall, space is a pretty good vacuum. Why doesn't the air get sucked out of the gel, especially if the gel is exposed to the vacuum of space and even more so if it is periodically being hit by particles?
Ok, maybe there wouldn't be one big "whooosh", but seven years is a long exposure.
Any ideas?
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They were TRYING to collect samples. They flew it through the wake of a comet.
Don't judge the safety of space by a comet's wake, just like you shouldn't judge the calmness of the water while in the wake of a speedboat.
Maybe, just maybe you could see that by learning more about what we came from, we might actually learn things? You know, it's part of that whole "science" thing that those ivory tower intellectuals keep talking about. I know that you may not like anything that doesn't give you a pretty picture or that doesn't beat those damn commies, but you know what, NASA is one of the few governmental agencies that does it's job well (aside from a few mishaps here and there, but then, that's common in government). I find it aggrivating how people want to keep cutting the budget for NASA, yet it gets less in a year than the War in Iraq gets in 3 months. Comon, people, NASA is what gets you your satalite TV, your cell phone service, your XM and Sirius radio, if it wants to actually go out and do some science beyond that, is it really that bad to toss it a few billion dollars to research our origins or explore the planets around us, what's so bad?
Nasa engineer: Hey anyone see the space dust?
Tyrone Biggums: Space dust? *sniffs* Uh... I don't know what you are talking about.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Interesting analogy, but is the size of the layer proportional to total funding or inversely proportional to the skills required?
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
I suspect people wondered the same thing about Antony van Leeuwenhoek. Why would anyone care about things too small to see? What a collosal waste of time. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/leeuwenhoek.h tml
I think you're getting confused with the Stardust mission.
The sample return for that one wasn't so successful... the package ploughed into the ground and made a pretty crater.
Pirate Party UK
$212 million for dust???
You say that now, just wait until the scientists find something in the dust that proves Intelligent Design. The flamewar would be immense.
"Scientists don't change their minds, they just die." -- Max Planck
I know, its somewhat OT, but when will we start seeing this wonderful aerogel in civilian products?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
With the success of Stardust, Spirit, Opportunity, and other missions, NASA and JPL are clearly demonstrating that robots are aptly suited for productive space research. Rather than invest in the huge infrastructure required to support our frailty, we should accept that humans are not equipped for interplanetary travel and actively pursue new and imaginative unmanned missions.
BTW, Great job Stardust team. Congratulations! I can't wait to get my invite to help out!
Stardust was an superb mission considering the nice samples and clear images of Wild2 (almost an afterthought). The related mission Genesis has been out of the news after its hard landing, but apparently many of the samples are in good shape, too.
an ill wind that blows no good
yeah that was a great article. NASA warns of cluttered space. well.. NASA.. who'se fault is that, really...
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
NASA != ESA.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Aren't comet's supposed to consist mostly of frozen water and gasses? Wouldn't most of that melt when exposed to earth temperatures?
I know they handle the sample in a very clean room, but shouldn't it also be very cold?
I've looked for mention of this in any of the articles, but haven't seen anything. So I'm probably misunderstanding something.
Even better than proof of intelligent design would be an actual fingerprint from the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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I heard Serena Williams was eaten in straight sets in Australia
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Other option is to put it back in its rightful environment, meaning send dust back in to space where it belongs.
I suggest you read Slashdot
Here's a clue to the solar system: There's nothing there within our reach that'll save us when we finally fuck up the planet irreparably. Get over the concept that we could move and start trying to fix the Earth first.
Actually, we could move pretty easily if we really wanted to; we are planning to return to the Moon in the near future, and hopefully some sort of base will be established at some point.
The problem is the the Earth isn't fixable. Even if we don't cause long-term (from our point of view) global warming, then eventually we are going to be hit by an asteroid, or there will be a supervolcano somewhere, or a mega-tsunami event. These would have effects way beyond anything we could achieve (the dinosaur-killer asteroid hit with the force of a million nuclear weapons!).
The idea that we could survive as we are long-term on this planet is totally unreasonable.
If we had the wherewithal to move to a different (habitable) planet, I suspect that we could also deflect asteroids, break up tsunamis, etc.
If we had the wherewithal to move to a different (habitable) planet, I suspect that we could also deflect asteroids, break up tsunamis, etc.
We have the capability of colonising other areas of the Solar System right now. A mission to the right sort of nearby resource-rich asteroid could 'bootstrap' our exploration and colonisation of the rest of the Solar System and beyond.
Defecting large asteroids may be possible in the near future, if we have enough warning, but the idea that we could break up tsunamis or prevent thousands of cubic kilometres of lava erupting from a supervolcano is absurd - it would require energies and technologies beyond anything we can currently conceive of.
While, I'd prefer to keep my money, if it is going to be taken from me (and legally I see no way out of it), I much prefer my money to go to something like this, than to "the poor".
I have no trouble finding charities of my own choosing. (My local homeless shelter gets most of my donations and volunteer time.)
Face it - if you make money some government is going to take some of it. That said, what do you want it to go to? Like I said, I can directly fund lots of charitable causes, but I would be hard pressed to fund real science.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Everything I care or need to know about can be found in the old and new testament.
:P
Then perhaps you should keep it there. By your own definition there is nothing for you to see here anyway.
The bad news is that there's a lot more big particles wandering around out there than they thought. Space is big. Really, really big. But you still don't want to hit something.
You've got selective memory in just recalling the Genesis mission. You forgot: Spirit, Opportunity, Cassini-Huygens, Deep Impact, and Swift.
And successful launches for things on it's way: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and MESSENGER.
I probably forget a few, too.
From TFA: "On its journey, the Stardust also spent 195 days collecting particles flowing through the solar system from stars far out in space. Scientists said there appeared to be hundreds of samples of these particles."
"I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
How is something snagged from a comet tail and brought back different from what would have gently settled here when the Earth passed through the tail of Halley's Comet way back in 1910?
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It does look like blueberry jello... Hmmm... Does anyone know what would happen if you ate some areogel? Would it harm you? I bet that stuff would feel weird in your mouth.
It's unlikely that any tsunami would wipe out most of the planet (try hitting Columbia, SC). Same with a volcanic eruption. Do any of these "resource rich" asteroids have water on them?
Also, any asteroid the size of Ceres or larger should not be too hard to detect early, and anything smaller should not be too hard too bludgeon. If we can get a mission to the asteroid belt, we should be able to get nuclear weapons there as well.
I'm not sure about the viability of NASA's expectation of finding stellar dust that's travelled from the outter edges of the galaxy and so on - there's already hundreds of years' worth of dust from grinding asteroids in our asteroid belt floating around here - and not to mention, the onslaught of comets that visit our system. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's highly likely that we'll just find the same stuff as we'd find in our backyard or on the moon.. In fact, if anything has a chance of having dust from the outter edges of our galaxy, I think it'd be the moon, no? Larger diameter than their collector, and millions of pits from meteors, some of which may be from the edge of the universe ;)
Just my 2 cents.
Right. And monkeys might fly out of my butt. Keep dreaming, troll.
Oh wait. Maybe I misinterpretted that. Woops. Feh, it's Slashdot.
The wind god and the rain god and the thunder god and the fertility god obviously exist, by definition. (They are what causes these phenomena, which science can only partially explain).
I'm not sure about the upper case G gods. They were invented more recently. I'm not even sure how many there are - are the Xtian, Jewish and Islamic godz different?
To me they're all a big con game.
Come on, Lenny... you know as well as I do, it's not just ANY just... it's STAR dust! ;)
Willie...
Hey, weren't they supposed to catch this probe by helicopter as it parachuted down to Earth? Seems like I remember reading about that, but I'm not sure if this is the same mission...
On Side A of the collector, the particles are from the comet. On Side B of the collector, the particles are from the cruise phase so that would be interstellar particles. However, none of this was "space junk".
So I was correct 2 out of 3 times.
See the Press Kit on the Stardust mission
Why go to Mars when we can bring it to us?
people clapped when Bush announced his "vision" to return to the Moon and put men are[sic] Mars
We go because we want to. Same reason we do anything.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
It will teach you nothing, since you are a lost cause. But the rest of us, that's a different story altogether.
"Look here brother, who you jivin' with that Cosmic Debris?"
About the opening of the sample, I suppose it's done in the best vacuum they can get. It's a logical assumption that they will do all the studies they can in vacuum, and if the samples are pressurized at all for some reason it will be in an inert gas.
It's unlikely that any tsunami would wipe out most of the planet (try hitting Columbia, SC).
No, but one could kill tens of millions.
Same with a volcanic eruption.
A supervolcano would not wipe out most of the planet, but would be a global disaster. There have been massive lava flows in the past that may well have wiped out most life. (250 million years ago)
Do any of these "resource rich" asteroids have water on them?
Yes.
Also, any asteroid the size of Ceres or larger should not be too hard to detect early, and anything smaller should not be too hard too bludgeon.
Anything the size of ceres or larger would basically melt the entire crust of the planet, and there would be nothing we could do about it.
If we can get a mission to the asteroid belt, we should be able to get nuclear weapons there as well.
Nuclear weapons would not be much use. What they would most likely do is fragment the asteroid so you end up with a lot of radioactive fragments that would still hit us. You need to push the asteroid away gently, which would take a long time (years).
The found the remnants of several free AOL disks.
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Yes, "Deep Impact" was a good movie. Better than the Liv Tyler/ Bruce Willis one that came out around the same time.
I still think it would have been better, though, if at the end, when the young teenage couple holding the baby on the mountain were looking up and one of those "suitcase size" meteors pounded the top of the mountain.
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And would you be able to get everyone except tens of millions of people off of the planet to elsewhere? And a supervolcano would seem to be something we could detect.
You believe that we can lift almost the entire human population from earth, but can't deflect Ceres? Also, if the radioactive fragments are small enough, they'll burn up in the atmosphere. True, there will be some radioactivity.
And how much water do the asteroids contain? And where would we colonize?
Not that I object to space colonizing.
And would you be able to get everyone except tens of millions of people off of the planet to elsewhere?
No.
And a supervolcano would seem to be something we could detect.
Actually, no, it isn't. Even a relatively minor eruption around the area of, say, Yellowstone Park, could indicate the start of days or weeks of mass vulcanism. We may have only days notice of this.
You believe that we can lift almost the entire human population from earth, but can't deflect Ceres?
I was not talking about evacuating the planet - that would be silly. My point is that it is wise to have off-planet colonies just in case.
Also, if the radioactive fragments are small enough, they'll burn up in the atmosphere. True, there will be some radioactivity.
Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You get the same energy transferred to the Earth by the collision of even small fragments as you would by the entire asteroid. It doesn't matter if they burn up or not.
Except that if they burn up in the atmosphere, they're not likely to melt the crust. Also, if we blow up asteroids far enough away from earth, the explosions might deflect pieces away.
And who are the lucky few to get taken to space colonies? They wouldn't be the leaders who failed to predict/act on natural disasters in the first place?
And a few days notice wouldn't be enough time to evacuate the area?
Except that if they burn up in the atmosphere, they're not likely to melt the crust.
It doesn't work like that. If there is enough dust, then it will not just burn up in the atmosphere, it will burn away the atmosphere, and then start to melt the crust.
Also, if we blow up asteroids far enough away from earth, the explosions might deflect pieces away.
No, that won't work either. If you are dealing with a huge mass, the energy to defect it away if it is close enormous. Explosions are a waste of time. A long, slow push is the only practical way.
And who are the lucky few to get taken to space colonies? They wouldn't be the leaders who failed to predict/act on natural disasters in the first place?
I am not talking about evacuation. I am talking about starting space colonies soon, perhaps in the next few decades, as insurance against disasters that could be centuries or millenia away.
And a few days notice wouldn't be enough time to evacuate the area?
Something like a supervolcano would initially devastate an area the size of, say, the Northern states of the USA. Where would you evacuate that number of people to? Eventually, the effects would be felt across the entire globe.
OK. We have to push the asteroids away. Is that any harder than space colonization? Also, how large are these supervolcanoes? Was Krakatoa that damaging? If not, how many more times powerful than Krakatoa are they?
Initially damage the entire Northern US? How fast can it project magma?
OK. We have to push the asteroids away. Is that any harder than space colonization?
Yes, it is. Space colonisation can be a gradual process; virtually self-funding if we start mining water and minerals from the right places in the solar system. We could start to build a moonbase right now if we wanted, and then on to Mars. The asteroid belt might be a good place to go, as there are lots of resources (water, metal, hydrocarbons).
Also, how large are these supervolcanoes? Was Krakatoa that damaging? If not, how many more times powerful than Krakatoa are they?
Very, very large - we are talking of at least hundreds of times larger than Krakatoa. Krakatoa ejected 25 cubic kilometers of rock. The Toba eruption of 70,000 years ago ejected nearly 3000 cubic kilometres, and the most recent (600,000 years ago) eruption of Yellowstone Park ejected so much that most of the area of the USA was covered in ash.
Initially damage the entire Northern US? How fast can it project magma?
The magma is projected into the atmosphere as ash, which can cover a significant area of the planet within days or weeks. The stuff left in the atmosphere would probably create a more-or-less instant Ice Age.
For the record, I am neither of these things, which you probably would even have picked up had you not been too eager to jump up on your high horses to finish reading my post.
Thanks so much for the words of wisdom...
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
Well, you would have been wasting your time any way. Just because I feel that IN THIS CASE the money was not justified does not make me 'anti-space exploration.' In fact I am just the opposite, but I still feel that this money could have been put to better use.
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam