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Medical Data on 365,000 Patients Stolen

Anonymous writes "Backup tapes and disks with data on 365,000 patients were stolen out of the car of a worker at a healthcare company in Portland. According to this Computerworld story, the tapes were in his car because he took them home as part of a disaster recovery plan, to protect the information from fire and other on-site disasters. D'oh!"

161 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. What's the problem by WormholeFiend · · Score: 5, Funny

    They still have the originals, so they can make a new set of backups!

    1. Re:What's the problem by c_fel · · Score: 1, Informative

      I guess it's a troll, but I'll feed it. The problem is not a lost of data. It is that (very) personal information has been stolen, including names, addresses, social security numbers, photos, diagnotics, x-rays, etc. Now just imagine how easy it could be to steal my identity if I am on these tapes... That matters.

      --
      I hate all sigs, mine included.
    2. Re:What's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're right.

      Taking information on people without their consent should be a crime of the highest magnitude.

      I personally, am looking forward to hearing what George Bush has to say on the matter.

    3. Re:What's the problem by Moofie · · Score: 1

      That moist "splat" sound was the joke hitting you in the forehead. Good catch.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    4. Re:What's the problem by shmlco · · Score: 1
      " It is that (very) personal information has been stolen, including names, addresses, social security numbers, photos, diagnotics, x-rays, etc."

      As everyone on /. knows by now, data can not be stolen.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    5. Re:What's the problem by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1


      As everyone on /. knows by now, data can not be stolen.

      Well it can't easily be stolen if it isn't kept all in one place. I work in the UK's National Health Service at the moment, and over here, primary care (local medical practices) still have control over their local database. Unfortunately, the government is trying to rail-road practices into handig it all over to a centralised system. (They're on a control trip again, and wanting to funnel huge quantities of money to the companies that have been pushing for it such as Accenture and Athos which are getting ridiculous amounts for developing the system).

      Coercive techniques involve upgrades to clinical software including automatically linking to it and soon, payments that were formerly about clinical performance being restructured to include things like implementing this system. There's a lot of this sort of stuff going on in the NHS at the moment, such as practices having to compile ethnic monitoring information on all new patients if they want full pay.

      Anyway, the long and the short of it, is that something like the above will inevitably happen in the UK in a few years time if the government succeeds in getting control of local practices' databases. The prize is just too juicy for it not to happen.

      Whether it will be publicly disclosed, or even discovered, may be another matter however.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    6. Re:What's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've just completed a project for a private contractor setting up a new NHS clinic and got to see first hand all the hoops that have to be jumped through.

      The security requirements are incredible...we had to make a physically seperate lan for the NHS approved kit which cannot be shared with anything else - the building now has 2 distinct set of CAT5 cabling.

      Interestingly enough however, the recommended practice for backups is to take them offsite. I got root to the db machine and looked at the backup script and it's a simple mysqldump.
      When i queried this with the NHS supplier, they said (and had told the private firm) that it was encrypted. I then informed the CEO of the the supplier that it was not and that taking raw text files of patient data off site was a bad idea, could he please let me know what they exact procedure should be.

      The reply i got was as follows:
      "As you know we are accredited to RFA99 v1.2 which dictates the way the
      system is designed and built. RFA99 v1.2 has no requirement that the data
      contained on backup media be encrypted."

      They also sent me a policy document on backups recommending that they be removed from site every day.

      I ended up making a formal recommendation to my client that the tapes never leave the site (and the reasons why) and that they be locked in a fireproof box.

      With the NHS approved suppliers making recommendations like that (they will all recommend the same as they're all accredited to the same standards), this will happen here some time or another.

    7. Re:What's the problem by OnlineAlias · · Score: 1

      The article states the data was incrypted, then says it wasn't, it was just in a proprietary format (yeah, right). If the data was truly encrypted, this would have been a non-issue and not even news worthy.

    8. Re:What's the problem by budgenator · · Score: 1

      fta the data on the tapes was encrypted, data on disks was unencrypted proprietary format.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    9. Re:What's the problem by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      Sir, if I subscribe to your newsletter, would I get a complimentary tinfoil hat and some kool-aid?

    10. Re:What's the problem by engagebot · · Score: 1

      Being in IT at a major hospital, i can tell you this would be a nightmare for us legally.

      However, in the real world, the majority of this info would be totally useless to someone who stole it out of a car. Its mainly database files for completely propietary systems used on a contract basis. we have separate systems for radiology, cardio, you name it.

      with the hipaa privacy laws and such, i can tell you right now the big thing they watch for: Any information (especially non-proprietary files like Excel or whatnot) containing lists of people who have HIV/AIDS. If that gets out, it's a nightmare.

      --
      Han shot first.
  2. Well, the question is ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    do they have a recovery plan for this disaster?

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Well, the question is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, you restore backups from originals!

    2. Re:Well, the question is ... by Sky+Cry · · Score: 1

      Ugh, steal them back?

  3. Hehe by Trip+Ericson · · Score: 5, Funny

    "But we know the data's safe! We just have no idea where the hell it is."

    1. Re:Hehe by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1

      Security through obscurity at it's best.

      Note to any female that reads my files: I'm still waiting for confirmation that the itching sensation is actually crabs.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    2. Re:Hehe by hobbesx · · Score: 1

      "But we know the data's safe! We just have no idea where the hell it is."
      Of course it's safe. It's on tapes. It might as well be incinerated and mixed into cement.

      --
      This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
      Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
  4. The further story by daeley · · Score: 5, Informative

    From TFA:

    The data on the tapes was encrypted, Walker said. The data on the disks was in a proprietary file format that was not encrypted, but "is stored in a way that would make it difficult, if not impossible, for someone to access it, then make any sense out of it," he said.

    So not as bad as the summary seemed to indicate, but still not the greatest thing to have happen.

    Especially if that proprietary file format "difficulty" is just the fact that the files are in some old version of Word. ;)

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    1. Re:The further story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only issue I've ever had with getting data off of a tape is finding a tape drive that will read whatever bizarre piece of crap the doctor used or was given by their vendor (I make part of my living reverse engineering doctors' older systems' data files to load into newer systems when they decide to change vendors). Once it's off the tape, you'll find that the vast majority of old applications out there (many run on old unixware servers) used tar to pack up a few datafiles, that are all fixed-width records. Find two patient names, determine the length of the record, and you're halfway there. My job's a bit easier because I can use the doctor's system to look up DOBs and such and figure out how they're stored in the file, but if the system stores the dashes with the SSN number (even if they don't... it's not like theres that many 9 digit numbers associated with your name out there) it's trivial to make the connection.

    2. Re:The further story by GodBlessTexas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Consulting in the insurance industry, I'd say that most likely the disks are from a mainframe since most medical companies are still using big mainframes for processing important customer data. I'm not sure how easy it is to read from a mainframe disc without having a mainframe, but it's hardly a proprietary format.

      --
      Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
    3. Re:The further story by evil-osm · · Score: 2, Funny

      So not as bad as the summary seemed to indicate, but still not the greatest thing to have happen.
       
      Good point, I'm sure it will be just fine. On an unrelated subject, Daeley, just out of curiosity, how is that spastic colon of yours doing?

      --


      E.

      Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
    4. Re:The further story by hokeyru · · Score: 1

      "The data on the tapes was encrypted, Walker said. The data on the disks was in a proprietary file format that was not encrypted, but "is stored in a way that would make it difficult, if not impossible, for someone to access it, then make any sense out of it," he said.

      This paragraph is encrypted.

  5. And that's why... by AltGrendel · · Score: 4, Informative
    ...you get an archive company that picks up the tapes and signs for them. You want a paper trail.

    Oh, and make sure the vault they keep them in is a)real and b) really able to withstand ANY disaster.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:And that's why... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      If they were stolen out of a car could they not have also been stolen out of an archive company car/truck?

      Probably not. An archive company would not leave them in the truck. Professionals, chain of custody...the truck is used only for transport, not storage.

    2. Re:And that's why... by shufler · · Score: 1

      I would imagine these companies would have more than one customer and that they would make several stops to these various companies in a single run.

      Or you know, I might be wrong. Maybe it's possible that they do in fact drive to each customer's location individually for tape swapping.

    3. Re:And that's why... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's possible that they do in fact drive to each customer's location individually for tape swapping.

      Possible, but unlikely. More likely they will have more than one person in the vehicle, and the vehicle will never be unattended. Ever see an armored car work? Two go in, one stays in the truck. Three people to pick up from one place. It would be simple to do the same with the courier for secure tapes.

    4. Re:And that's why... by OnlineAlias · · Score: 1

      Iron Mountain (an archive company) just had a bunch of tapes stolen. The only way to ensure security on tapes that leave a facility is to encrypt using a quality scheme...(blowfish, AES, etc,etc...)

    5. Re:And that's why... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      OMG Do you people know what that would cost?

      Yeah, I have used it before. Are you complaining that you will do something you know to be wrong because you are too stupid to be able to justify the right thing to the people writing the checks? The Right Thing usually costs money. When the alternative is insecure tapes (both for theft and loss when they are needed for the business), the extra cost doesn't look like too much.

  6. Next week... by FalconZero · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...on eBay.....

    --
    Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
    1. Re:Next week... by loraksus · · Score: 1

      Get it right "fenceBay"

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  7. hmmm by rwven · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You've got to wonder why these people didn't have this stuff encrypted... An encrypted filesystem at least or straight up file encryption even... When are these companies going to get a clue?

    And storing the tapes in your car? What happens if it's 100 degrees outside?

    Where i work, they make the backup copies and have someone drive them to one of the other branches at the company. They make a backup every day and keep seven days worth of backup in rotation so if something went wrong 6 days ago and they backed up the problem every day, they ahve the 7th backup left to work with...

    Unfortunatley i don't know what their view on encrypting the data is. With as anal retentive as the IT VP is about security though, i can't imagine they wouldn't be encrypted...

    1. Re:hmmm by rwven · · Score: 1

      correction: i see now that it was a "proprietary" file system. Part of me wonders if it's proprietary for their backup device provider and anyone could use that same software or device to get the data off. I find it hard to believe that a company would design their own filesystem for their backup tapes. I think they're downplaying how serious the screwup really is... Chances are someone could download the software or something to that effect and pull off all the data they want...

    2. Re:hmmm by OgreChow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I could be wrong, but I don't think there are a lot of 100 degree days in Portland.

    3. Re:hmmm by jbrader · · Score: 1

      Well certainly not this time of year. But in the summer it can be sunny enough that the inside of a car could probably get hot enough to damage tape. Haha maybe it was clear out that day and the "thief" was just trying to save the tapes.

      --
      You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
    4. Re:hmmm by topham · · Score: 1


      It probably isn't encrypted. They probably think it's ok since it is only in transit for 20 minutes (or whatever it is).

      Of course, if the car is involved in an accident, the driver seriously injured and the tapes get stolen during or after the accident cleanup... ooops.

      This stuff happens every day. And it will continue to happen.

    5. Re:hmmm by CyberVenom · · Score: 1

      Unfortunatley i don't know what their view on encrypting the data is. With as anal retentive as the IT VP is about security though, i can't imagine they wouldn't be encrypted...

      Props to your IT VP. Being anal about security is his job.

    6. Re:hmmm by rwven · · Score: 1

      i happen to agree. Yeah, it's annoying for everyone sometimes, but worth it if anyone were to attempt anything. I nmapped our network once and it basically got an "unhackable" rating... That was cool.

  8. Why is anyone allowed to take the records? by hsmith · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I mean, that has to be violating health care laws, the individual taking patient records home, even if they are in some propietary format. That can't be legal at all, due to patient confidentiality, ect. I hope something serious comes from this.

    1. Re:Why is anyone allowed to take the records? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      If they're keeping records on 350,000 people, they're not 'strapped for cash'.

    2. Re:Why is anyone allowed to take the records? by queequeg1 · · Score: 1

      Although offtopic, if their payor mix is skewed toward Medicare and Medicaid patients (as opposed to private payors or other non-government payors), the more patients they have, the more straped for cash they would be.

    3. Re:Why is anyone allowed to take the records? by engagebot · · Score: 1

      Not really. I'm in IT at a major hospital.

      we have a full Citrix system where anybody can log in remotely from our website. (if you've never used citrix, its a remote terminal server app. think of it as a vnc session to any windows 2000 machine at the hospital.) Any hospital empoloyee can pull up to starbucks with a powerbook and pull up anything from patient records to x-rays, CT scans, patient billing... (thats assuming they have access in the hospital anyway)

      same thing as bringing it home basically.

      --
      Han shot first.
  9. Hard to believe this mistake by Chowser · · Score: 3, Informative

    At my clinic where there is an EHR (Electronic Health Record) there is built in redundancy with multiple servers in different locations. It is hard to believe that a hospital system as big as Providence (which owns hospitals in multiple NW states) could have something as stupid as someone taking home a backup in their car.

    --
    sig here
    1. Re:Hard to believe this mistake by OnlineAlias · · Score: 1

      I audited a large hospital network recently. The things that people do with data in a large system is simply frightening. Fact is, the people in charge of security for the myriad of smaller support systems an a large hospital network are not security trained. Sure, your main line-of-business systems (Cerner, IDX, etc) have security guys all over them. It's the "sleep lab" and "cardiac cath lab" anciliary systems that have no one watching the shop. I suspect that is exactly what happened here...

  10. Is it really theft? by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The incident is the second data theft from a motor vehicle announced this week. Yesterday, Minneapolis-based financial services company Ameriprise Financial Inc. said it is notifying some 158,000 customers and 68,000 financial advisers that a laptop containing personal information about them -- including names, account numbers or Social Security numbers -- was stolen from a parked car late last month (see "Ameriprise notifying 226,000 customers, advisers of data theft").


    I can see hard disks being stolen..... but not tapes in the one case. Thieves like to take items with obvious value. Am I missing something here? Isn't it possible the workers simply sold the data?
    1. Re:Is it really theft? by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      If the worker had access to the data it would be much easier to make copies of them than to suffer the fallout of the tapes going 'missing'.

    2. Re:Is it really theft? by MikeWasHere05 · · Score: 1

      Why would he steal it if he has authorized access to it?

    3. Re:Is it really theft? by RodgerDodger · · Score: 1

      What are the tapes in? They're probably in a nicy shiny briefcase or other bag. Thieves love to steal bags and briefcases... it's fast to grab, it doesn't look odd when they walk down the street, and they can ditch it fairly easily afterwards.

      --
      "Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
    4. Re:Is it really theft? by Keith+McClary · · Score: 1
      I can see hard disks being stolen..... but not tapes in the one case. Thieves like to take items with obvious value.


      Maybe the thieves thought the tape cans contained pizzas.

      TFA says "backup data disks and tapes". I assumed the disks were CD (not hard or floppy). I guess the tapes would be cassettes, not reel-to-reel cans as I joked above.
    5. Re:Is it really theft? by CyberVenom · · Score: 1

      Maybe, just maybe, the thief knew what he/she was doing?
      Consider:

      1. Tencho-savvy miscreant sees employee leave medical building carrying piles of disks and tapes. (the disks, if CDs could be mistaken for audio CDs, but the variety of backup tapes that I have seen used in recent years look more like 8-track casettes than DAT or old-school two-sided stereo audiocasettes)
      2. Techno-savvy miscreant ceases nearby dumpster-diving activities and stealthily zeroes in on the jackpot.
      3. ??????
      4. Profit!

    6. Re:Is it really theft? by rolfwind · · Score: 1
      Why would he steal it if he has authorized access to it?


      The data might pop up somewhere and if the health insurance company catches on, it suddenly becomes an corporate spying case. If it's reported stolen, the excuse for it popping up somewhere later is built-in.
  11. What century is this? by aphaenogaster · · Score: 2

    Why couldnt he just scp the crap to his home computer and tape it there? Seems rather simple to me. Oh wait! maybe thats not secure enough....

    1. Re:What century is this? by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      Uhhh, ever heard of rsync?

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
    2. Re:What century is this? by bigtrike · · Score: 1

      He'd have to have one hell of a connection and a large disk array at home. I have yet to see DSL service which can handle several hundred gigs of data each day.

    3. Re:What century is this? by aphaenogaster · · Score: 1

      That's just it. It should not be hard to get this kind of a connection in 2006. Also, your assuming that the company was going to do this halfass like before. Suppose they decided that setting up a t1 at the 'place of backup' was worth the expense? After this mess up I bet they may reconsider.

  12. just say no to SSN#s by tv_dinners · · Score: 1

    Which is why I refuse to divulge my SSN# to Medical Clinics. I either make one up or flatly refuse. They say, well we need it. I say for what. They say that is how we sort our records. I tell them to make up a number and use that instead, while reminding them it is illegal to use a SSN for anything but SS.

    1. Re:just say no to SSN#s by starrsoft · · Score: 1
      "it is illegal to use a SSN for anything but SS."
      Wrong. It was at first, but the law was changed and has been changed for some time.
      --
      Read my blog: HansMast.com
    2. Re:just say no to SSN#s by jack_csk · · Score: 2, Informative

      By the way, did you know some insurance companies use SSN as the contract #? Surely things are better after HIPAA comes effective, but then it did happen.

    3. Re:just say no to SSN#s by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I believe it's illegal to *require* an SSN, but I also believe that many orgs have the option of refusing service for any reason except things like race, sex, national origin, so if you don't provide the optional info, they don't provide the optional service.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  13. OK by 42Penguins · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cue the "bandwidth of a station wagon of backup tapes" cliches? If it's stuff they really don't want stolen, why not buy a safe for his car? Better yet, give him a company truck/van with secure storage. If they have 365,000 patients (customers) then they can surely afford to protect their information.

    1. Re:OK by Keith+McClary · · Score: 1
      Anyone who has their employer's belongings stolen from a car should be fired.


      Any manager who required employees to take data home should be fired. I would be surprised if the company's insurance policy covers this. My home insurance specifically covers my stuff in storage or in transit, away from home, but would a corporate policy cover informal arrangements to store stuff in employees' cars or homes?
    2. Re:OK by dal20402 · · Score: 1
      They're called curtains. You can hide stuff with them.

      Although anyone with sensitive corporate information in a home has a problem.

  14. Thanks, buddy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now I don't have cancer anymore!

  15. I think I speak for everyone when I say... by mnemonic_ · · Score: 1

    Owned.

  16. Partially encrypted by krray · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At least the tapes were encrypted (not the disks in this incident). Even though this case doesn't affect me this was the first question that (always) pops in my head.

    For much the same reasons cited here our company backups are taken offsite (daily) -- only difference is that instead of tapes and disks we found that for speed, volume, and cost it was better to go with external hard drives (I figured this out almost ten years ago myself :).

    Even though we are a small organization (under a few hundred employees) the data is encrypted. That was step one and one of the most important IMHO. The average Joe who finds / steals any of our external drives (which has never happened thankfully) would be hard pressed to even figure out the filesystem (Ext3). Not that that would really slow down anybody who knows what they're doing -- nor was it done for security (I just like / trust Linux :).

    Of course I can think of other problem areas where data is flying around unencrypted and sensitive. The Department of Employment Security (which many states all report to for and through payroll to track dead beat dads) takes their data with your social security number in a plain ASCII text file sent through the US mail on a floppy. What happens when you lose a floppy, or what do they do with the processed disks?

    Fortunately and unfortunately we need and there will be laws requiring any such sensitive information to be encrypted for "National Security" (Big Brother [tm]) reasons. It's only a matter of time. It is unfortunate that it will take a law and more bureaucratic BS to make this happen, it is fortunate for all our privacy and the fact someone has to program this (more work for me :).

    1. Re:Partially encrypted by autophile · · Score: 1
      The average Joe who finds / steals any of our external drives (which has never happened thankfully) would be hard pressed to even figure out the filesystem (Ext3).

      Ahh... that explains why I couldn't mount those drives I just stole from you. Thanks for the tip!

      --Rob

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
  17. Don't Use Your Car by slashbob22 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For some reason this is seaming to be a popular activity. I remember hearing a few years back in school about a sysadmin bringing the tapes home for offsite backup. There actually was an incident where he needed to get information off the tapes. Each tape he tried was corrupted. After doing some investigation, it turned out that the magnetic field from his car's seat heater was corrupting them.
    Bottom Line: Secure transport and storage plans are required no matter how sensitive or mission critical your information is.

    --
    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  18. Next MasterCard commercial by bob0the0mighty · · Score: 1
    Crowbar - $5
    Ski Mask - $3
    Running Shoes - $50
    Thousands of stolen medical records -

    PRICELESS

    1. Re:Next MasterCard commercial by anzev · · Score: 1

      We wish! Then we could:

      SELECT Name,LastName FROM MasterCardCustomers WHERE item="Crowbar" OR item="skimask" OR item="running shoes" AND dateOfPurchase="sameAsDateOfStolenTapes OR dateOfPurchase="oneDayBefore"

      What bothers me is what he'll do with it. I mean will he send you an e-mail saying: "I know you have a pulmonary disease! Stop smoking or pay me 5000 USD" ?

  19. Re:Who Robbed Him? by aliscool · · Score: 1

    you are right,
    the tapes are probably in a dumpster close to the thiefs house.
    Maybe they drove to Target or somewhere and threw them out.

    Then they get down to the serious business of striping the car for parts.

  20. Absurd by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

    What sane company in this day and age is moving such a small amount of data around on tapes? Suppose (liberally) an average of 100K of data on each of their 365,000 patients. That would fit ten times over on one hard disk. Furthermore the entire database could be sent over a T1 in

    100000 * 8 * 365000 / 1500000 / 60 / 60 / 24 == 2.2 days ... and daily diffs probably in a few minutes.

    I just think it's really funny how many people still feel like storage and bandwidth are so scarce. A patient database is nothing compared to volume of porno and bittorrents that flows through the internet all day long

    1. Re:Absurd by Orangejesus · · Score: 1

      Medical Records are quite often larger than 100k, I just finished setting up a small clinic this weekend, and they scan in medical charts and x-rays for all their patients. It's not uncommon for a single patients records to be 20mb or more. so check your math again with those numbers.

    2. Re:Absurd by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 1

      What sane company in this day and age is moving such a small amount of data around on tapes?

      Maybe a company where the health information system is based on a legacy mainframe and where tape is the "high capacity" input/storage.

      Furthermore the entire database could be sent over a T1

      ... which would be a violation of HIPAA if over the internet.

    3. Re:Absurd by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      ... which would be a violation of HIPAA if over the internet.

      If whomever sets up/designs the system doesn't know about VPNs then they have much bigger problems to worry about.

    4. Re:Absurd by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      Come back when you get a clue about the size of a real database.

      Yes I'm sorry, I'm such an idiot.

      Bump the number up to 100MB per client and figure how big a daily diff might be - still no need to be trucking tapes around.

    5. Re:Absurd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Show me the place where HIPAA says you can't send medical information over the internet...

      And if you can (which you can't) you will find that every state health agency in the country, most federal agencies, and most hospitals and health care providers are in violation.

      HIPAA only requires you to make every possible effort to protect data. Protection can include things like encryption and tunneling, all the way down to privacy screens and closed office doors.

      Nothing about not using the internet...

    6. Re:Absurd by engagebot · · Score: 1

      Just flat wrong. how can you speculate something like this when you have NO IDEA how the systems work.

      You think a CT scan consists of some 1024x768 jpeg? One freakin CT study can be a couple hundred megs itself. They run that machine almost 24x7. And that's just one example.

      You think that ever bit of info is super-optimized in some packed database? Wrong. Hospitals usually have entirely different systems for each department. Each having their own proprietary databases.

      --
      Han shot first.
  21. I Live In Fear of This by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I also work at a healthcare provider adn deal with this exposure every day. Normal backups provides us no disaster recovery value because our recover point objective is measured in minutes. Tape simply can't meet it. Likewise if we were to attempt to restore the entire operation from tape it would take months. Just acquiring hardware would take weeks. But our recovery time objective is forty-eight hours. Basically, if we go longer than that we are out of business. So long term, our DR strategy is based on storage and app level replication between data centers. But as it stands, we only have one site. Consequently we send our backups offsite, essentially as a placebo. But it gets better. We don't have the drive resources to duplicate tape, so we send the originals offsite. That means that if we need to do a restore we must wait an hour for someone to retrieve the tape and reinject it into our library.

    Let's review here: we have a fake DR strategy which adds an hour to every file restore and exposes us to data theft. Sounds good huh? I have repeatedly told our brass it would be better to do nothing, but their position is "We don't want to tell the newspapers we had no DR strategy when the disaster strikes."

    How do we remediate this? Well, we could encrypt the tape but that is a big pain in the ass and has its own disadvantages. Really, the answer is to get off our ass and build a DR data center so the potentially deadly placebo goes away.

    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
    1. Re:I Live In Fear of This by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 1
      ... if we were to attempt to restore the entire operation from tape it would take months
      Just how much data are we talking about here? I can believe 48 hours would be a challenge but, with modern high speed tape drives, I cannot imagine how a restore could be measured in months (in an emergency, data could be restored in parallel also).
    2. Re:I Live In Fear of This by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1

      About thirteen terabytes. But the problem is not spooling up the tape. Remember, we are talking worst case scenario: total destruction of our data center. The problem is acquiring, building and integrating 200 servers plus storage, infrastructure, EDI etc. On the server side have three Windows admins and three unix/linux admins. We have two storage admins. They double as our backup admins, and one of them is also one of our three unix/linux admins.

      Like I said, just getting the servers, network and SAN hardware would take weeks, even if we called in every marker.

      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
    3. Re:I Live In Fear of This by queenb**ch · · Score: 1

      Given HIPAA and SOX and alot of newer legislation, I would tell you to run, no - sprint, to your legal department. Sit out and talk to the legal beagles. Have them help you draft a risk acceptance letter and outlines everything you've put in this missive. Then go to the brass and make them sign it in triplicate. Give the brass one copy, give one copy to your personal lawyer and lock one in a safety deposit box somewhere. Depending on the circumstances, anything else might leave you open for a jail term. You sure don't want that. No one wants to go to jail because of a bunch of PHB's.

      Besides, when you whip out the document and tell them sign on the dotted line that says "We know it's stupid but its what we really want to do." it's absolutely amazing how fast the "you know we don't have money for that" becomes "how much budget did you need for that?" My experience has been that they ususally *do* have the money, but they don't want to spend it because it's an expense and expenses eat into their fat annual and quaterly bonuses.

      2 cents,

      Queen B

      --
      HDGary secures my bank :/
    4. Re:I Live In Fear of This by smithtodda · · Score: 1

      Nice sig. I've always liked Benchley quotes.

      --
      Why Vegan? No other food choice has a farther-reaching and more profoundly positive impact on all of life on Earth.
    5. Re:I Live In Fear of This by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, I have a medium term solution inthe pipe and there is budget for it. Rather than wait for the DR datacenter project to mature, we will pursue tape elimination and replicate the backup over the wire. Basically we are going to go with a content addressable disk backup target. Something like Data Domain. It still has no value from a DR perspective, but it eliminates the HIPAA exposure and restore latency. It alsogetsw us out of the tape management business (yay!). Basically we replace tape with CAS and replicate the CAS box to a second one in another site. The second site does not have to be a full data center, only meet minimal standards. That will get me by until the DR project comes to fruition. Right now we are reviewing possible target.

      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
    6. Re:I Live In Fear of This by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1

      Thanks. He does seem to get less credit than Mrs. Parker, although he was every bit as witty and perhaps a bit less brutal. Don't get me wrong, she was a genius.

      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
    7. Re:I Live In Fear of This by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
      Your legal department is highly unlikely to help /you/ draft a letter of indemnity/risk acceptance against your employer - /their/ employer. Most likely they'll just go straight to your manager, give them the "Please explain?" and your manager, in turn, is going to give you the same "Please explain?"

      Not that you can't work something out. But it's not that simple.

    8. Re:I Live In Fear of This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'd push for the alternate data center. I've worked places where it's came in handy. A shutdown for a fire was a big one. But computing stuff that should NOT happen, but does, cause people are dumb, is another good reason to have a warm offsite backup. At one place we were very redundant in our EDI area too, because you just can't count on people, or telcos.

    9. Re:I Live In Fear of This by mindriot · · Score: 1

      Consider yourself lucky. There's a bit of a chance that this story here may help you improve your situation -- at least it gives your boss something to think about.

    10. Re:I Live In Fear of This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Easy. Order a ton of dell servers, pay for the next or try to get them to do same day shipping, order a huge EMC san, slip the installer a few hundreds so they do it that day. Hardware recovery CAN happen on the same day if you are willing to pay through the nose for it, and let everyone in the loop know you are restoring a datacenter and it's critical no time is wasted.

    11. Re:I Live In Fear of This by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "Easy. Order a ton of dell servers, pay for the next or try to get them to do same day shipping, order a huge EMC san, slip the installer a few hundreds so they do it that day. "

      Do keep in mind a scenario where it's a disaster that doesn't just affect your company but others as well. If everyone else is also ordering a ton of servers I doubt everyone is going to get them the next day.

      --
  22. In other news... by Statecraftsman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Google's page count mysteriously jumps by 365,000 records. Coincidence? You decide.

  23. Much worse! Data really on disks! by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It took me a minute to decypher that cyrptic comment, but look at these two parts from the article together:

    In an announcement yesterday, Providence Home Services, a division of Seattle-based Providence Health Systems, said the records and other data were on several disks and tapes stolen from the car of a Providence employee at his home. The incident was reported by the employee on Dec. 31, according to the health care system.
    The data on the tapes was encrypted, Walker said. The data on the disks was in a proprietary file format that was not encrypted, but "is stored in a way that would make it difficult, if not impossible, for someone to access it, then make any sense out of it," he said.


    So think about it - Tapes AND Disks were stolen (at first I had thought it was just tapes). The hard to read media (tapes) were encrypted. But it doesn't matter, chuck 'em in the river because the DISKS (fasr easier to read by any fool with a computer) have data that is in a format that is just "hard to read"!!

    Give me five minutes with Emacs and/or a Hex editor and/or Strings and I'll bet I could start churning SSN's out of the files right quick! I don't care if they are ISAM or DB2 or Pig-Latin! Security by file format obscurity is zero security, that data has to be treated as widely known at this point.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  24. Ah, more digital leakage that no... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    ...butt plug can stop..

    a matter of the human factor and murphys laws...

  25. I see ... / I don't see by Lifix · · Score: 1

    I see lots of data theft / data loss. It seems that every month 100k+ people are affected when a company looses their personal information. I see these companies claim that they have no proof that the data is being used / read. I see these companies apologise for the loss and apologise for the inconvience and apologise for not keeping better track of customer data. I don't see the MASSIVE fines needed to get these companies to stop loosing our data.

    Until the cost of loosing data becomes greater than the cost of maintaining an EFFECTIVE and SECURE data storage/backup process this isn't going to stop... ever.

    --
    In nature, there are neither rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
  26. Walking to the bank. by suso · · Score: 1

    At the ISP I used to work for, I always made it a habit to never stop anywhere or to talk to anyone on the walk to the bank. This helps ensure that you don't wind up with the "Its a Wonderful Life" accident and misplace $8000.

    Of course, it doesn't help when the bank that your manager has forced you to use has really poor security of their safety deposit box. Banks are unbelieveable. Unbelieveably stupid that is.

    1. Re:Walking to the bank. by rnpg1014 · · Score: 1
      My father worked upstairs in a loan firm for a bank in an old building. I frankly can't see how if banks were all this secure they could be robbed.

      The vault is time sealed, and can only be opened at certain times of the day. To open it, one needs a combination and two keys. No one person holds both keys, and there are only two of each key. The vault is also heavily guarded and there are security camaras.

      Inside the vault, the safety deposit boxes line the walls, and in the back of the room, an even bigger box with all the money in it. One out of ten of the bundles of $5, $20 and $100 dollar bills are fake bundles. They have a tiny machine inside them. If the burglar was to walk out of the bank with this bundle, they would trip an alarm, releasing a colored gas from the bundle. The substance would dye all the money red as well as sting the hands of the intruder.

      If you call that insecure, you might as well bury your money under your house.

      --
      - Nick
  27. Reminds me of the last place I was fired from... by malraid · · Score: 1

    I was screaming at my boss that we need to replace our tape drive. The backups were not restorable. Then I was fired and given compensation, which was good, I was about to quit. Six months later, a RAID crashed. My ex boss had to tell 300 persons: "All your work from five years is lost, sorry." Really sweat. People cheered when that guy was fired. They had a huge contingency plan, but they never validated a single backup. Never understimate the power of stupidity.

    --
    please excuse my apathy
  28. Cough Cough by NetNinja · · Score: 1

    inside job.

    Only paying him 45k a year. You get what you pay for.

  29. Re:Who Robbed Him? by EZLeeAmused · · Score: 1

    At least you're honest. Try reading the article. The car wasn't stolen; just the media.

    --
    Some see the vessel as half full; others see it as half-empty; We pour it out on the floor and laugh
  30. Hmmm... how big is this company? by ursabear · · Score: 1

    Tiny companies (with whom I've worked) generally take their backup tapes to the bank each day and rotate them in and out of their safety deposit boxes. Although this still exposes the tapes to being stolen from the employee, it is still better than no backups.

    But a company that has 1/3 million patient records should be well beyond letting someone "take the data home" for a DRP.

    A fireproof safe is far better than a Pinto.

  31. Re:encrypted by neonsignal · · Score: 2, Funny

    This must be some new meaning of the word encrypted that I was previously unaware of.

  32. Sounds a bit sketchy... by TheNoxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    $20 says the worker is the one that "stole" the tapes. Who randomly walks up to a car and says "Oh look! Patent info! I'll take this home right away and start using my cryptography techniques to unlock it right away!"

    --
    Ex nihilo nihil fit.
    1. Re:Sounds a bit sketchy... by bigtrike · · Score: 1

      No, 99% of the time they break into the older cars looking for an aftermarket stereo.

  33. Funny you should mention that by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I work for a healthcare organization in the same state as Providence (the number of them is pretty small so you could probably guess). Just last month we were reviewing policies to cover just this contingency.

    Washington law demands that notification occur if there's any chance that the information could be used criminally. Since we too operate in Washington, we're also complying with that law.

    Essentially you must notify each person directly unless the cost of doing so is upwards of a million dollars or so. There's then some contingencies where you can take out ads in major newspapers.

    There's some strange exceptions to the rule. If our hospital accidentally sends clinical information to the wrong insurance provider and it's your normal mix-up rather than a potentially criminal act, that doesn't require notification. It sounds like if it wasn't the case, people would get notified all the time.

    I expect to hear about this tomorrow when we go to work. I work fairly closely with the woman who manages these risks in our organization and she'll likely be hearing all about it. Scary stuff.

    1. Re:Funny you should mention that by JordanL · · Score: 1

      I just had an doctors appointment at Providence in Portland a week ago... now I'm wondering how secure my data really is... mine wasn't stolen, as my appointment was after the 31st, but it makes me think twice...

    2. Re:Funny you should mention that by budgenator · · Score: 1

      It's resonable to expect that a lab that your hosp already has HIPPA agreements with would protect data that was received by accident to the same standard as data they were supposed to receive. My dental lab doesn't even care about patient data, we don't need it or really want it. We don't care as in don't need it rather than don't care as in don't protect it if we get it. When I out-source the lab we send to only gets a case number; that get's stolen it's no big deal

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:Funny you should mention that by RESPAWN · · Score: 1

      It sounds like if it wasn't the case, people would get notified all the time.

      I support a billing and collections office in the healthcare industry. I wouldn't say that this kind of mistake happens "all the time" but it is honestly an easy mistake to make. That's one of the reasons we have our fancy legal disclosure thought up by the company lawyers and plastered all over our cover sheets.

      Furthermore, I am led to believe that there would still be legal ramifications if the insurance company which receives the mistaken fax were to in any way take advantage of that patient data. They are still in the healthcare industry and still responsible for patient data in their care, whether that data is expressly meant for them or not.

      Realistically, it's trivially simple for the person manning the fax machine to dump the paper in the shred bin that's most likely with in spitting distance of the fax machines and copy machines.

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

  34. Yes but it failed... by mindaktiviti · · Score: 1

    Don't tell anyone about it.

  35. Re:SPY? by Rebelgecko · · Score: 1

    I would

    --
    CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
  36. Re:No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Most offsite backups are encrypted anyway.

    Upon what are you basing this statement?


    I can tell you, from first-hand experience, that the majority of companies do *not* encrypt their backup data. I could (but won't) name a dozen Fortune 100 companies that I know for a fact don't encrypt backups. I could (but won't) name dozens of Fortune 500 companies that don't. I could (but won't) name dozens of health-care companies/organizations that don't.


    Why don't they? It's freakin' expensive. The argument can be made that losing data (like this) can be a lot more expensive (and I'd agree whole-heartedly), but getting the bean-counters to recognize that is a lot harder.


    Encrypting the backups for one or two systems is pretty easy. The software is readily available, and the processing overhead is easily managed on a couple of boxes. Encrypting the enterprise is much harder. Either you try and manage keys and processor overhead on a few thousand systems, or you go with SAN devices to do the encryption... which ain't cheap.


    Trust me, I architect solutions like this for a living. It's expensive. Really, really expensive.

  37. Wha? huh? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    What genius of a CIO thought an employee taking copies of tapes home in their car constituted a good disaster recovery plan? Especially in light of the flurry of highly publicized losses of customer information in recent months. My head is spinning just thinking about all the ways that a set of tapes in someone's car could be compromised.

    If this isn't a case where a C-level executive loses his/her job -- in a very public way -- for allowing such a boned-headed plan to be put in place then I don't know what sort of gaffe could ever qualify. I'll be surprised if there aren't lawsuits filed over this by Monday.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  38. I guess no one has heard of encrypting backups. by buss_error · · Score: 1
    Backup tapes and disks with data on 365,000 patients were stolen out of the car of a worker at a healthcare company in Portland.

    A company I used to work for in the wagering business used 9 track tapes (many states specify it in their laws, so we just used 'em everywhere). Not only are the channels not arranged to standard form, but the data itself is encrypted according to a variable password. The only clear block on the tape is the first, which gives you the sequence and index of the password. Then you have to get the book out, look up the password to restore the tape.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:I guess no one has heard of encrypting backups. by Mateorabi · · Score: 1

      Yes, but did you back up the password book too? Or if it went up in flames with the originals of the data, were you SOL with backups you couldn't decrypt? If the first, you still have to securely store the book somehow.

      --
      "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

    2. Re:I guess no one has heard of encrypting backups. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
      Then you have to get the book out, look up the password to restore the tape.
      So lemme guess, each tape has a sticky note with the password on it?
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  39. Ironic by Mendokusei · · Score: 1

    All they need now is a wedding and some rain...

  40. risk acceptance letter by Keith+McClary · · Score: 1
    Given HIPAA and SOX and alot of newer legislation, I would tell you to run, no - sprint, to your legal department. Sit out and talk to the legal beagles. Have them help you draft a risk acceptance letter and outlines everything you've put in this missive. Then go to the brass and make them sign it in triplicate. Give the brass one copy, give one copy to your personal lawyer and lock one in a safety deposit box somewhere. Depending on the circumstances, anything else might leave you open for a jail term. You sure don't want that. No one wants to go to jail because of a bunch of PHB's.

    Besides, when you whip out the document and tell them sign on the dotted line that says "We know it's stupid but its what we really want to do." it's absolutely amazing how fast the "you know we don't have money for that" becomes "how much budget did you need for that?" My experience has been that they ususally *do* have the money, but they don't want to spend it because it's an expense and expenses eat into their fat annual and quaterly bonuses.


    This would apply to many other situations - toxic waste, other safety issues.

    So what if the beagles ignore you? Send them a double registered letter cc'd to your lawyer?
  41. My take... by hahn · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, finally a Slashdot post I can write about with some experience. FWIW, I'm a physician in Portland and medical informatics is an interest of mine.

    First of all, while it may shock many IT people that hospitals would use such rudimentary forms of backup and with little encryption, you have to understand that the state of IT in the medical world is backwards. Very backwards. There are a variety of reasons for this. One is that information systems are designed by IT people with little to no understanding of how the healthcare system works (which is understandable - many people in healthcare have little understanding of how it works). At the same time, you have healthcare professionals who really don't understand the full potential of how IT can be applied to healthcare or what its limitations are, but at the same time will complain about solutions that the IT world comes up with. There's this chasm between the two worlds and what you end up getting is a solution that no one likes and you end up having to go back to the drawing board over and over and over. It is absolutely amazing how much money gets sunk into medical IT and how very little progress it has made.

    Another reasons includes the vast amounts of red tape in the medical world that are MEANT to prevent lawsuits and provide the best quality healthcare. But there's so much that it what it really ends up doing is bringing any kind of progress or new idea to a grinding halt. There is no industry I can think of which is so ill adapted to making changes even when they're necessary or make sense. The legal world has the medical world frozen in fear of the next litigation. The result is a paradoxical decrease in healthcare quality and increased costs.

    Medical information privacy is one of those issues that seems to always be #1 on the list of concerns of electronic medical records. This has always been rather strange to me. How many people are really all that concerned with someone knowing about their cold, or their broken leg? Most people don't have much they would really care about hiding in their medical records. Of course, there are the people with mental illness, HIV, or sexually transmitted diseases. But even then, what exactly is this thief going to do with that information? IMHO medical information privacy is more of a theoretical concern than a real-life concern.

    And then of course, there's the REAL reason people are considered with medical information being digitized identity theft for money reasons. I really blame the credit card industry for this more than anyone else. It's surprising to me that they could simply issue a credit card if someone just writes down a name, social security number and address. In this day and age with inexpensive biometric security systems, one would think they could require a submission of a fingerprint (or two). Hell, nowadays with branch offices literally EVERYWHERE, they could simply request you come in with your driver's license. It seems to me that it would be in a bank's best financial interests to do something like this.

    Just my $0.02.

    --
    "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
    1. Re:My take... by MmmDee · · Score: 1

      Being in the medical field too, with similar interests and background... I agree with everything you've stated. There's more a perception of the importance of medical records than reality. Most such records would require an "expert" to perform data mining. We should all be more concerned with identity theft based on information from other sources.

      --
      No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
    2. Re:My take... by shilly · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm surprised you don't think there is any real risk attached to the leaking of medical records. The risks are real and there are documented instances of their occurrences of failures with severe consequences. These include the IRA penetrating the medical records system at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast to target police officers; a bank manager on the board of a US hospital finding out which of his customers had cancer and foreclosing the loans; and US insurers have disclosed health information about customers to lenders and employers without permission.

      Many people are vulnerable to blackmail about sensitive aspects of their medical records, including--but hardly limited to--sexual and mental health. Similarly, people may avoid seeking medical advice for such conditions if they fear that they cannot speak in confidence. And large networked databases simultaneously increase the value of the data to malicious users (more chance of finding something interesting) and the opportunities for access.

      Of course, the major threats are all internal, not external -- malicious insiders.

    3. Re:My take... by mrcparker · · Score: 1

      I have consulted at many health care businesses (hospitals, retirement) and what they did, by allowing an employee to actually take the items out of the building, is a blatant HIPPA violation. All data needs to be encrypted before being moved off-site, and no employee should be allowed to ever take patient information out of the building.

      In this case, it is just a stupid provider. I agree that there is a whole lot of red tape in health care, but what they did are the two first things you learn when you go through any sort of compliance training.

      I see lots of fines

    4. Re:My take... by NorbrookC · · Score: 1

      I've worked in healthcare informatics myself, and I agree with much of what you say. A few quibbles though:

      IMHO medical information privacy is more of a theoretical concern than a real-life concern.

      No, it's a very real concern. Medical records contain a wealth of information that can be extremely damaging to a person. There's addresses, next-of-kin, insurance company/payment information, social security numbers and so on. If I want a one-stop shop for gathering information to to use for identity theft, medical records beat a credit card database every time.

      Most people don't have much they would really care about hiding in their medical records.

      That's your judgement, not necessarily that of the patients. It's their decision as to whether they want their medical information released, not yours. In my experience, physicians are the worst offenders when it comes to information security and patient confidentiality. I could get clerks, nurses, techs, and everyone else to understand it, but physicians were the group that blew it off.

      You're right about healthcare IT being a mess. The problem is that most healthcare administrators and physicians don't understand IT or its needs, and IT doesn't understand the end-users' needs. Add in the fact that there is a stew of messaging standards (HL-7, X-12, DOM, and so on) and you have a nightmare for development.

    5. Re:My take... by hahn · · Score: 1

      I may have poorly worded my original post, so allow me to be a little more precise. It's not that I don't think there is any real risk. There clearly is. I just don't think that the risk is as great as people imagine it to be. Also, it's all relative. Are the risks of a centralized medical record system that uses current technological security measures any greater a risk than current fragmented electronic medical records (unencrypted as in this case), or even paper records? You saw what happened with Hurricane Katrina and the tens of thousands (or was it millions?) of paper records that were lost. Forever.

      I don't know a lot about the examples you presented, but in two of your examples, it has nothing to do with breakins and all about inappropriate (and illegal I might add) dispensation of privileged information. Paper chart, electronic chart, centralized database, whatever. No information system can protect against human intent.

      Let's say I develop some terminal cancer. I have 1 year to live. I don't want anyone else to know. If my medical record was in those tapes or disks, how worried am I really going to be that anyone at work or any of my family or friends are going to find out? I don't think I'll lose even a minute of sleep. It just doesn't seem plausible that some random thief is going to steal that information so that he can dispense that information to my family or co-workers just to cause me grief. Blackmail through theft of a hospital's medical patient database just isn't something I see as feasible as a system-wide problem. You can always come up with individual exceptions. But these are outliers and should not prevent us from implementing electronic medical records which have numerous benefits to counter the risks.

      Again, let me re-emphasize. It's not that I'm indifferent about the security of medical information or that we should just allow anyone to access a centralized database. I just feel that the current state of electronic security is sufficient enough that the benefits of such a system (freedom to visit any hospital without repeating tests and lengthy questionnaires, reduction of redundant tests, reduction of morbidity and mortality due to overtesting, etc) far outweigh the potential risks of identity theft, blackmail, or terrorism. There are risks to EVERY system. A database that isn't electronic or centralized would not have lessened the risk of medical information being used in the examples you gave. And then there's hurricanes. Who the hell would've predicted that?? An centralized, backed up electronic database using cloning technology would've made that a complete non-issue.

      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
    6. Re:My take... by hahn · · Score: 1
      >IMHO medical information privacy is more of a theoretical concern than a real-life concern.
      No, it's a very real concern. Medical records contain a wealth of information that can be extremely damaging to a person. There's addresses, next-of-kin, insurance company/payment information, social security numbers and so on. If I want a one-stop shop for gathering information to to use for identity theft, medical records beat a credit card database every time.
      I'll refer you to the above reply I made to shilly on this. I didn't mean to come off as being blase about it. Just that my opinion is that our current security standards are sufficient to minimize the risk to the point that the benefits outweigh the risks. The truth is, it's impossible to have zero risk. No matter how you securely you store the data, confidentiality can always be violated by people.
      >Most people don't have much they would really care about hiding in their medical records.
      That's your judgement, not necessarily that of the patients. It's their decision as to whether they want their medical information released, not yours. In my experience, physicians are the worst offenders when it comes to information security and patient confidentiality. I could get clerks, nurses, techs, and everyone else to understand it, but physicians were the group that blew it off.
      It's a generalization I'm making based on the dozens of patient records that I see everyday. I'm not personally making a judgement on whether they SHOULD care or not about the privacy of the records. Again, don't get me wrong - I have complete respect for a patient's wish for confidentiality. But a paper record does not guarantee that confidentiality either. My argument is in favor of a centralized electronic medical records database versus our current system - multiple incompatible local electronic databases, or worst of all, paper charts. The fear that a centralized database is significantly MORE dangerous than the paper chart is, I believe, an overblown fear. Especially with the current state of computer security.
      You're right about healthcare IT being a mess. The problem is that most healthcare administrators and physicians don't understand IT or its needs, and IT doesn't understand the end-users' needs. Add in the fact that there is a stew of messaging standards (HL-7, X-12, DOM, and so on) and you have a nightmare for development.
      100% agreement. Not sure how this is going to be fixed. I'm working on some ideas and plans myself.
      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
  42. Well HIPAA is gonna get some cash from this... by Treslayr · · Score: 1

    Not to mention the fact that they severely violated HIPPA The "Health Information Portability Accountibilty Act which is supposed to prevent boneheaded acts like this. If I am not mistaken he (or she) now faces a $25000.00 fine. Apparently many missed the memo on HIPAA compliance.

  43. Reply to sig. by Descalzo · · Score: 1
    It was me!!!!

    Mwa ha ha ha!!!

    Contact me for the address where you can send the reward check.

    --
    I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
  44. Re: 365,000 by Lucas+Membrane · · Score: 1

    That's an awful big number for the number of patients getting home health and hospice from a hospital system that's just one of several competing in two piddly states. If there were 365,000, there must have been many in there more than once. Not to mention that many of the hospice patients are now metabolically different.

  45. Not if you live in the city by MMaestro · · Score: 1
    I know people who have had their cars broken into only to have a CD player or a cheap $50 camera stolen.

    Hell my brother had it car broken into once. The window smashed by a chunk of concrete (it was still inside) and the only thing missing was his coat, sunglasses and a broken camera we were always too lazy to simply take out.

    1. Re:Not if you live in the city by bigtrike · · Score: 1

      Hell my brother had it car broken into once. The window smashed by a chunk of concrete (it was still inside) and the only thing missing was his coat, sunglasses and a broken camera we were always too lazy to simply take out.

      I've had my car broken into several times. They always take the items that are easy for them to re-use or have street value. They may leave things with actual value. It's best to hide anything which could be sold for more than about $5.

    2. Re:Not if you live in the city by saintlupus · · Score: 1

      My last car was a total beater that I bought on eBay for a few hundred bucks. I never bothered locking it, because I figured that if anyone broke a window to get in, they would cause more damage than the car had cost me in the first place.

      Anyway, some douchebag rifled through my car in the dead of night. What did he steal? Half a tin of Altoids.

      How little self-respect does a thief have to have to steal _breath mints_?

      --saint

  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  47. Hospitals, Schmospitals... by Aelcyx · · Score: 1

    C'mon, who needs 'em? Do-it-yourself kidney transplant kit anyone? If you match the wrong bloodtype, my nose flashes red! Or maybe that was the organic "anesthetic" at work...

  48. The disks weren't encrypted. by Devistater · · Score: 1

    RTFA, the disks weren't encrypted. They can just grab all the personal data they want off of the disks. They are relying on security by obscurity because they say its a proprietary format. Any format someone can make, someone else can make something to read it. How hard is it to search for SSN in a data file?

    And even better, what if the plain text on the disks is also on the tapes? Since you have the plain text original, you can easily decrypt the final encrypted version.

    They are just trying to make it sound good when in reality, if the thieves realize what they have, they can make a killing off of it.

  49. reminds me of the John Cleese sketch... by rgravina · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of the sketch John Cleese did for LiveVault http://www.backuptrauma.com/video/default2.aspx.

    I specifically remember there being something in there about leaving tapes on the seat of a car :)

  50. Patent Lawyer by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

    At first me think, oh good! 365 000 Medical Patents data stolen!

    Me think lots of job for patent lawyer.

    But then me put glasses on, and read again, me see it's really Patients, not Patents, and noone cares for Patients anyway.

    --- 11 PAT3NT POW3R !!! 11 ---

  51. rfc? by bobamu · · Score: 1

    What's the rfc for that? and does this transport mechanism support drm?

  52. Childish excuses? by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 1

    You use a private car for such a delivery?
    You use your own basement as a "disaster recovery" site?
    These sounds more like an excuse for some other dirty thing, like data loss, to be covered up.
    And, of course, we all suppose that those backups have been recorded with strong cryptography, right?
    In any case it seems that the major threat to information security is humanity.

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
  53. Re:Who Robbed Him? by Gamefreak99 · · Score: 1

    Didn't say (or didn't mean at least) that it was. But if you're looking to rob someones car, wouldn't you go for the most obvious and expensive things? Car radio, purse, iPod, etc. Why would someone grab a bunch of computer tapes? Just seems a bit comical to me...

  54. Off Site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This why there are companies that specialized in off site back ups.
    1) Make back ups
    2) Pay company to pick up the DLT's
    3) Tapes get dropped off to secure facility.

    Some companies that come to mind are
    a) Iron Mountain
    b) IG2

    Hell, if there is a problem; they will come back to your shop in a couple of hours with the tapes in question.

    Why do I get the feeling that this used to be done; but the practice of cost cutting changed that plan. No, I don't have inside info; just a gut feeling. On a side note; I work in a data center and I have seen cost cutting plans by various companies in action. Tapes no longer get shipped off site; they just site there in a cage on the floor.

    Practices like these are disconcerting; makes me wonder why I still work in this business. Cutting costs still seems to me the norm. Everything is fine and dandy until you have to restore the tapes or fix an outage. Sorry for going OT; but it is getting a tad bit depressing with the current state of affairs.

  55. Data left out in the open by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    Backup tapes and disks with data on 365,000 patients were stolen out of the car of a worker at a healthcare company in Portland.

    Ironically, several Britney Spears, Backstreet Boyz and N*SYNC cds were still found in the back seat, unharmed.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  56. Re:Much worse! Data really on disks! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

    Depends on the keying structure. I work on an old MPE/iX machine that uses flat table crap (I'm babysitting the POS atm, in fact), and the difficulty would arise if the tables were keyed with third or fourth tables that weren't included in the backup, or were included on a different tape...This crap happens all the time, and generally you just have to "know" that those things are connected in that way. So you could end up with a SSN and a name, but no way to connect them.

    Or, depending, you could end up with a 300 character long string of integers and no way to tell where the SSN began/ended. If the item stored before/after it was a date, you'd be good, but if it was some weirdass key, you might have no idea.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  57. Responsibility in action? by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 1

    he took them home as part of a disaster recovery plan

    In my country in the middle of Europe, that itself would be a crime. No one could possess any personal data (including making copies of personal documents) the law does not say explicitly he can. 8 years in prison.

    --
    There you are, staring at me again.
  58. Re:No problem by OnlineAlias · · Score: 1

    Encrypting is not always the proper solution either. One has to understand that computer security is more about risk management rather than nuts and bolts systems engineering. For tapes that go out of a facility, encyption is usually best, however there are risks involved with encrypting itself. For one thing, if the keys or passwords get lost (or stolen, by a disgruntled employee for example), the data is gone because at that point no one can recover it. For another, the software or algarithm has a flaw that won't allow decryption for some reason (it can happen). Point being, truly understanding information systems security is more complex than most people think.

  59. Ok, what's the worry? by FhnuZoag · · Score: 1

    Of course, there's a privacy, breach of trust yadda yadda issue. But it's not like the thief can actually do anything with that data, right? There's no one he can sell it to, or something... right?

    I expect the disks to just turn up in a dumpster somewhere, sometime soon.

  60. The 1,000 page memo, you mean? by ianscot · · Score: 1
    Everyone involved in Health Care has HIPAA in mind, but IT people are among the hardest hit by it. I can definitely see a server admin sort coming up with a quick and dirty solution like this and not paying that much attention.

    Okay, granted, "I'll make photocopies of the paper files and put them in the back of my Gremlin" doesn't come close to any standard of privacy protection, with or without the law. But HIPAA's so far-reaching that it can sort of paralyze people and organizations, to the point where the guy who's willing to cut corners can feel like he's cutting through the B.S. and just getting things done.

    HIPAA's a pretty big nonspecific anxiety for lots of people in health care. Health insurers have teams of lawyers, and hire outside lawyers, just to consult over the implications of the thing and to train their people and so on.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
  61. Competition for the onsite data storage companies by JustMyOptionSB · · Score: 1

    My Honda Civic is open for business. I specialize in offsite data storage.

  62. Just send blank tapes by khchung · · Score: 1

    we have a fake DR strategy which adds an hour to every file restore and exposes us to data theft.

    So why don't you just send blank tapes (to go through the motion) and keep the real ones on-site to speed up your recovery time and eliminate the theft possibility?

    In case disaster strikes your primary site (flood, fire, etc), you downtime will be longer than 2 hours and the company is out of business anyway, so the off-site tapes won't do any good anyway.

    --
    Oliver.
  63. what the fucking fucking fuck?? by rbochan · · Score: 1

    From TFA:
    "The tapes and disks were taken home by the employee as part of a backup protocol that sent them off-site to protect them against loss from fires or other disasters. That practice, which was only used by the home health care division of the hospital system, has since been stopped, said health system spokesman Gary Walker."

    This was part of the company's protocol? An employee taking the shit home and leaving it in his car? Personal/medical/financial data for umpteen hundreds of thousands of people? What happened to HIPAA?

    Whomever came up with this "protocol, as well as the empoyee, should be fired and prosecuted.

    Perhaps if this finally happens to a children's hospital someone in this "WON"T SOMEONE THINK OF TEH CHILDREN!??!?!?11!!~~!!tilde!!!OMGWTFBBQ!!!" culture we've got will actually do something about it.

    Cripes... people were fired up over Janet Jackson's tits, but not over this?

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
  64. $20 million? by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

    So that's, what, a $20 million fine?

    --
    Stop! Dremel time!
  65. Why were the backups in an empty car? by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

    The procedure should have been to go directly from the data center to a bank - and deposit the backups in a safe deposit box. The data should never make a pit-stop in someone's driveway. :(

    Unless you get attacked on the way to the bank (and if you think that likely, take steps to provide security for the transfer - maybe an armored car if it is that sensitive), there shouldn't be an opportunity for anyone to gain access to the data. Usually keeping a low profile, and varying the times and days you make the deliveries is sufficient.

    For smaller businesses this can be as simple as backing up the encrypted data onto a gigabyte usb drive - which can be delivered to the bank unobtrusively.

    Additionally, there are companies that provide the service of picking up and securing backup media - if you don't have the resources or want to hassle with it yourself.

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  66. Encryption?.... by Physics+Dude · · Score: 1

    So... the data was obviously encrypted, right? AFAIC that should be standard operating procedure with offsite backups of sensitive data.

  67. social security numbers still used as medical ids by peter303 · · Score: 1

    In many places social security numbers are used as medical ids. I noticed this while visiting many doctors after an auto accident in 2003, even though my health insurance card no longer uses socials (switch due to a California law). I dont know how they got my social, but they had it. I just cross my fingers and watch my financial records.

  68. Outrageous - more and greater fines needed by rbrewer123 · · Score: 1

    I hope somebody involved in enforcing HIPAA can start slapping large punitive fines on companies that use such slapdash practices for handling sensitive medical records. They need a large tangible downside to realize that sending hundreds of thousands of unencrypted medical records to an employee's home is not a money-saving strategy.

    It sounds like the employee likely left the whole box of tapes and disks in the cabin of the car in plain view overnight.

    For the patients' sake, let's hope their medical staff is more thoughtful than their IT staff. I can hear the surgeon now, "Wash my hands? They look clean, what could possibly go wrong?"

  69. Insecure Medical Data in Fort Wayne, Indiana by DeonFaustus · · Score: 1
    Concerns a company known as Medical Informatics Engineering

    http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/news/local/ 13716471.htm

  70. OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by guanxi · · Score: 1
    With all due respect to the parent poster, who only said this in passing and does not deserve to be cast in the role of representing the entire American medical industry, I can't let this pass ...

    The legal world has the medical world frozen in fear of the next litigation.

    Boy am I sick of hearing this canard. Here's an easy way of preventing lawsuits: Don't screw up. That's what I have to do in my profession. Blaming the law for holding you accountable is common, but really makes no sense.

    You can't spend time in a hospital and miss the disorganization, negligence and sheer ineptitude. In my family, nobody gets hospitalized without a bodyguard to make sure that they get the right medicine, at the right time, that the right hand knows not to do X because the left hand just performed procedure Y, and that the weakened patient isn't overwhelmed by lazy doctors and nurses who care mostly about dispatching their case efficiently.

    Everyone I know has the same experience -- Yet the medical community, very aware of the level of errors, acts suprised when they are held responsible!

    But enough anecdotal evidence:
    • This JAMA study found over 27,000 errors due to hospital (not other medical care) negligence in one year, in New York state alone.
    • This Institute of Medicine study found 44,000 to 98,000 deaths per year due to hospital errors alone. That makes it the 8th leading cause of death, ahead of car accidents, AIDS, and breast cancer.
    • The more comprehensive HealthGrades study puts the number of deaths due to hospital error at 195,000. And the study's authors think that underestimates it. (Also reported here.)
    • Just try a few Google searches and you'll easily find more information, like this study.

    That's right, doctors' errors are at least the eighth leading cause of death in this country. And the problem is the lawyers?

    The response of the medical industry is to continue their practices, blame lawyers, and lobby congress for protection from accountability. I remember when the IOM study came out, it was proposed that hospitals be legally required to report these errors -- think about that: There is no reporting mechanism for, and no regulation of, hospital errors!. The American Medical Assoc. (the doctors' lobby) resisted, saying the potential penalties would discourage doctors from complying. By that reasoning, I shouldn't have to report running that guy over the other day -- I might be held responsible!

    It can be done better:

    When anesthesiologists were facing high error rates and corresponding malpractice costs, they took a different approach: They systematically studied the problem and tried to reduce errors. As a result, deaths due to anesthesia dropped from 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 200,000-300,000. And insurance premiums dropped 37%. You can read about it here or pay for the full story here.

    And most of the industrialized world countries manage to deliver better care for far less. According to a study reported here, Americans spend $5,267 per capita on health care every year, almost two and half times the industrialized world's median of $2,193; ... Americans have fewer doctors per capita than most Western countries. We go to the doctor less than people in other Western countries. We get admitted to the hospital less frequently than people in other Western countries. We are less

    1. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by shilly · · Score: 1

      You're right that lots of people die in hospitals due to errors. And you're right that quality is a problem. But these are not quite as related as you think. For a start, risk = frequency * severity. Medicine entails invasive procedures and sick people, so severity is very high. Human error is inevitable and will always have consequences, failsafe systems notwithstanding -- and it counts a lot more in medicine than in software code (mostly, anyway). Secondly, medicine involves hugely complex biological systems and we just don't know how to measure quality most of the time.

    2. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by multiplexo · · Score: 1
      You're right that lots of people die in hospitals due to errors. And you're right that quality is a problem. But these are not quite as related as you think. For a start, risk = frequency * severity. Medicine entails invasive procedures and sick people, so severity is very high. Human error is inevitable and will always have consequences, failsafe systems notwithstanding -- and it counts a lot more in medicine than in software code (mostly, anyway). Secondly, medicine involves hugely complex biological systems and we just don't know how to measure quality most of the time.

      So, BFD, you've made a statement which sounds profound but which means nothing. OK, risk = frequency * severity, I'll buy that. So let's look at each hospital and the procedures they do and evaluate the outcomes. It wouldn't be at all difficult to anonymize this data so that it could be published. So that if you looked at two hospitals, A and B, you could see that if you were a white male 55 to 65 years old with no significant complications your risk of dying during coronary bypass might be 10 percent at hospital A and 20 percent at hospital B. At this point the prospective patient can say, "Hmmm, looks to me as if hospital B is kind of fucked up, maybe I should go to hospital A for my bypass.

      The people who say that we need to do something about the lawyers to fix medicine have obviously never spent time in a hospital. I spent two months at a level 1 trauma center after a motorcycle accident and I managed to catch two medication errors where the nurses were giving me meds that my doctors had discontinued, and I was fucked up on opiates and suffering from a low hematocrit. Fortunately neither error would have killed me if I hadn't caught it, but still...

      --
      cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
    3. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by hahn · · Score: 1

      First off, thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt in your statements regarding the medical industry. Second of all, you may be surprised to find that I agree with much of what you say. I'm well aware of the studies that you cited. I would even go so far as to say that I tend to believe most strongly in the HealthGrade study that shows that medical error is the THIRD leading cause of death in this country after heart disease and cancer.

      That said, let me expand upon my original comment. When I made that comment about the legal world, I was referring specifically to the painfully slow progress of medical IT. However, I do think it applies in a broader context as well. This is a complex issue and I didn't mean to make it sound as if the blame completely belongs to lawyers. There's enough blame to go around - doctors, lawyers, insurance companies, and yes, the patients themselves. How to begin? Whew...

      Well, let me first acknowledge the validity of part of your point. Some lawsuits are warranted and needed to keep the medical field on its toes. Absolutely, I agree. There are cases where the doctor, nurse, or hospital was negligent and the patient suffered or died for it. However, mistakes in the medical field are not as easy to categorize or avoid as you think they are. You seem to be under the impression that if they just changed the system, things will get better. You cited the story about anesthesiologists. That may work for certain examples, and where it can work, people in the healthcare field DO make an effort to make these changes.

      But there are others in which mistakes are unavoidable (unfortunately, there always will be errors). But the system creates the environment in which those errors become more likely. Many times, it is NOT entirely the healthcare system's fault. That you think it does is a good example of a widespread public perception that medicine is an exact science. Much of the public also thinks that (thanks to the media) modern medicine is responsible for the long life expectancy in this country (it is NOT; that is thanks to public health measures such as clean water supplies and sanitation measures). That perception leads many who aren't in the healthcare field to believe that because we know so much about the human body and disease, that nearly everything is fixable, and thus, mistakes can be avoided if healthcare providers are simply careful enough. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be in the medical world do nothing to change this perception. After all, it feels good to be placed on a pedestal. On an individual basis, you won't find many doctors who would agree wholeheartedly that this perception is justifiable. It is an unfortunate fact that with as much as we know (rather, as much as we THINK we know), there is far, far, FAR more that we don't know, or that we don't understand. For every door we unlock in the science aspect of medicine, 5 more are revealed.

      Here's my oversimplified, overgeneralized one-sentence opinion about modern healthcare: I feel that the healthcare profession overtest, overdiagnose, and overtreats patients. It leads to a lot of the errors that you spoke of. And some of this may be greed. But a lot of it is fear of litigation. (Perhaps some of it used to justify the greed.) The point is, many doctors order unnecessary tests, write unnecessary prescriptions, perform unnecessary procedures simply because A) it is considered standard of care, B) the patient wants it, or C) to cover their ass. However, these unnecessary tests, prescriptions and procedures themselves are the source of much morbidity and yes, mortality. These are then attributed to "medical error". As a healthcare professional, what do you do? Do you discourage hospital stays, expensive exams, and treatments, and RISK missing something (even if unlikely) and an expensive, career-ruining lawsuit? Or do you order up the entire battery of tests, procedures, etc knowing that the patient's insurance will cover it anyhow, because it's the "

      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
    4. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by guanxi · · Score: 1

      That's what I read Slashdot for -- posts like yours. Thanks. I would only add a few observations:

      However, these unnecessary tests, prescriptions and procedures themselves are the source of much morbidity and yes, mortality.

      I never thought of it that way, but it's analogous to what someone doing IT system design learns (or should know): Every change or additional component adds complexity, potential errors, and operating costs, so KISS (keep it simple stupid) or, design systems that are 'as simple as possible, and no simpler'.

      it is not enough to simply say, medical errors cause 195,000 deaths per year - who else to blame but the lazy doctors and nurses? ... Believe me, doctors are as frustrated by the errors as the public. ... Hospital administrations are often unwilling to be a pioneer in making systemic changes (such as a centralized medical information system) because doing so puts them at potentially GREATER risk for lawsuits

      I think more evidence that it's a systemic problem is that, well, it happens throughout the system. It can't be coincidence that so many people and organizations around the country behave similarly; there must be some common cause.

      But I would add that any well-established institution, from the military to our K-12 education system to the legal industry to the medical industry, is naturally, internally highly resistant to change. From an IT perspective, radical change in the medical industry (or any other) is like replacing a 100 year old legacy system with hundreds of millions of users: There are so many specs, components, cruft, politics, vested and entrenched interests, apathy to change, and sheer complexity that it's a desparate step. The current system consists of those things that successfully resisted earlier changes.

      I used to oppose nationalized health care, but a few things changed my mind: First, it might have the force to accomplish the needed systemic change. Second, other countries' nationalized health care provides equal or better serivce than our system. And finally, I'm starting to think that providing health care based on ability to pay is no more acceptable than providing police and fire protection based on ability to pay.

      Thanks again; I will take a look at the book you suggested. Have a great weekend!

    5. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by guanxi · · Score: 1

      Reading my original post, I see it was a bit of a rant. Thanks for responding in a more cool-headed, practical fashion.

    6. Re:OT: Malpractice is caused by Dr.'s, not Lawyers by shilly · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to be profound, I'm just saying it's not as simple as you're suggesting.

      For example, funnily enough, your proposal for publishing outcomes data has been taken up for heart surgery in the UK. See, for eg:
      http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsperformance/story /0,,1439210,00.html

      The challenge is how to make sense of the data: most people are not going to be able to interpret that table. It's difficult to present the key data effectively to allow people to make an informed choice; it's hard enough for people to make effective choices between types of treatment (eg CABG vs other treatments), never mind assess where the best place is to have it.

      But I'm glad it's straightforward and obvious to you.

  71. Chain of Custody by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    The interesting thing is that you can have medical research studies where we have a federal mandate (not George/Dick action, this means we have to do it) to use paper forms.

    So, when we have a requirement to keep the data on such forms, we could courier it, but then confidentiality and other issues come into play. It's easier to have a hand off of the physical forms from one person (the clinician or someone on the clinical staff) to another (the researcher or someone on the research staff).

    Now, a lot of times, the data has been masked in such a way that you shouldn't be able to figure out who it is: e.g. PatientID is in a table we make, VisitID is the same, we only record Month and Year instead of a full birthdate, there's no name on it, we do record gender, but if the research project or medical form includes certain data (patient U5036 (fake ID) reports he was born FEB 1935, spouse U5036A reports she was born MAR 1935, married DEC 1955, reports accident JAN 1998 (details)) - well, if you were patient and good at searching, you could probably reconstruct who it was, with access to public records).

    So, just because it's patient records is not the problem - the problem is it included credit card, medical insurance policy/carrier, birthdate, SSN data that makes it useful for fraud.

    Of course, because it is medical data on patients, there are blackmail risks, in that patients in confidence may report things they definitely do NOT want public information, such as say same-gender relationships of a sexual nature or some such.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  72. Nothing new under the sun by 6*7 · · Score: 1

    Atleast here something physical went missing. How about "open" wireless networks or unguarded network connections within the reach of the "customers" of a hopsital? Nobody would ever know.

    For example: last year some security experts had access (in some cases read/write) to 1.2 million records for 2 weeks at 2 hospitals in the Netherlands by access their networks.

    I guess that there are more than 1 record per person, but consider the Netherlands has a population of only 16 million.

  73. This is the new world order.It was not an accident by ClioCJS · · Score: 1
    This is another way corporations make money, on purpose.

    You can damn well bet they have information theft criminals on their payrolls too.

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com