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Cringely on Blockbuster-iPod Video Distro Plan
MrPerfekt writes "In this week's Cringely column, another one of his hypothesizing sessions actually seems plausible. Blockbuster's retail outlets make good sense for Apple to partner with them for video iPod content distribution. From the article: 'Take your Video-out iPod to Blockbuster, drop it in a kiosk dock then download from the local xServe your choice of 50,000 movies. You can rent the movie or buy it and you can even choose the resolution, which may or may not affect the final price. Take the iPod home, drop it in the dock attached to your TV and watch the movie. H.264 decoding takes place in the iPod in hardware.'"
why not just grab the dvd while youre there? this idea sucks
I don't even have an iPod. How could this story possibly be true?
If this happens do you think netflix and blockbuster (or someone else) might get involved on some sort of download rental action? That would be the way to do it, download and copy it over on your own pc.
Drive to the Blockbuster to load up your iPod? When I have a perfectly good cable modem connection? Can you say "Akamai", boys and girls?
Blockbuster has nothing whatsoever to offer Apple if and when Apple decides to go into the full-length, hi-def movie business.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Now, remind me why this would be better than just downloading something at home onto the iPod? Better yer, why wouldn't I jsut doanload something directly to a PC and then run it into my TV and skip the whole iPod? If I'm at Blockbuster, it is to rent a DVD. If I could get that DVD over the net with a legal download easily, I would, and Blockbuster would go to back to the depths from which they came...
I digg it! err...
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
Thats the limit for H.264
For Mpeg4 it's more like 512x384
This is the key point to take from the article. I'm not defending whether or not Burst's patents are valid or not valid...just that nothing will happen until Apple makes Burst.com go away. This will require:
1. Invalidating their key patents via the courts - long and costly
2. Buying a license to use their patents (the solution Microsoft pursued) - short and costly
3. Buying Burst.com - short and costly and not a chance in hell because I can't see Jobs giving up when he is convinced that the patents that Burst.com hold are invalid.
However, I do think that the rumors of Sony launching some sort of movie service that y'all can plug your PS3s into is lighting a fire under the Cupertino booty. Somebody is going to launch this party . . . and if iTunes is any indication, to the first goes the $$$$.
We definitely live in interesting times.
Even if I max out my DSL connection, it'll still take about 32 minutes to download the video, and another 5 or so to sync it to the iPod. Meanwhile, there's a blockbuster two blocks from me. Five minute walk there, two minutes to find the video I want, five minutes to sync, five minutes home... 17 minutes, vs. 37. People with slower connections, especially those with dialup, will benefit even more.
although if I wanted to watch 400 dvd's of cartoons in a month, I suppose they may take issue and throttle me down.
this iPod idea, while slightly cool in a 2002 world, seems like a hassle of monumental proportions.
at least that's my $.01
But borrowing a DVD is already incredibly easy. About the only way this is easier is that you don't have to return the DVD and I don't think that's enough. Apple would be asking its customers to spend hundreds of dollars (?) on a piece of hardware that would be doing more or less the same job as the DVD player they already own.
It's probably a reasonable why-not idea, for those who already have an iPod. But I can't see it attracting a lot of new customers.
based on Cringley's latest "predictions" ie.. google advertising on tv? not anytime soon.. blockbuster having "docking" stations for ipod's? nope sorry.. cringley is waaaaay wrong lately..
first of all apple hasn't sold enough video ipods for blockbuster to even think of making a kiosk.. and second everyone has dvd players dummy.. you dont need a 400$ portable device to rent a movie.. you simply take the piece of plastic home with you. Maybe your saving the customer a return fee but why not save the customer from going to the store all together and download the movie from itunes? The customer with an ipod already has a kiosk its called a PC.
Cringley has a knack for stealing ideas and passing them off as his own genius (such as baxter .. tsunami warning system etc).
.. once CableCard 2+ comes out it will be mad easy to buy videos. It's more a cultural/habit shift to no go o the music store. I mean why do people contnue to buy CD's when tehy can get the songs cheaper online on napster.com or yahoo music? Heck maybe HDTV's will have touchscreens or he remote itself will be a touchscreen face ipod-style and voice controlled making it super easy to buy music, select tv shows and movies wirelessly. Right now the interface for doing it is ugly and navigating with the remote is a pain.
As usual, this stuff has been talked about before on forums and websites/blogs. Like, some discuss the video membership card itself being an NTSC transmitter with a HDD in it containing a full movie and the best part is you'd use the membership card as a remote to fast fwd etc. It would discourage copying etc. I mean, copying is a problem any which way. Furthermore they can sell a USB dock to the device so you dont have to take it into he video store to download the movie.
Anyway this is all moot cause the cable companies already have movies on demand
Greetings.
.com stores with their real stores. Apple probably wouldn't make the movies available through Blockbuster/Hollywood Video/etc. that would be just the channel to make them available for the computer-phobes or non-broadband customers.
My first reaction was the same as many here when I read the article: why bother, if you have broadband?
Cringely gives a good answer toward the end: because not everyone we know is using computers or cares about broadband. Outside our techie world, some people find the computer either intimidating or perfectly acceptable running on a 56 kbps modem. Thus, the ability to dock and iPod and refresh its contents at a local store isn't that far-fetched.
If you look at some of the big box retailers' strategies, they're all leveraging their on-line stores against their bricks-n-mortar stores, creating a continuum rather than a separate experience. They are integrating their
Now... coming back to reality... where on earth does Cringely get this stuff? Very entertaining, good speculation... but just that, in the end. Is anyone keeping track of which of his write ups wind up being accurate?
Cheers,
Eugene
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
These writers seem to have access to some really heavy drugs and I'd like to buy some.
Or maybe Cringely and Dvorak are willing to share.
1. First, you'd be buying the movie, not renting it. You don't have to return it, you can watch it over and over.
2. Most importantly--Apple doesn't support this. If they did, why don't they do this in record stores (Virgin, Tower) with music? Why can't I drop my iPod into my PC upstairs, then sync with my laptop, then sync with my work computer and share all that music? It's tightly tied to a single computer.
Ain't no way they can do it until they fundamentally change how the iPod and iTunes works.
Who the fuck is Cringley anyway? If slashdot wouldnt promote every "story" he wrote he would be a nothing. And actually he is nothing. He's just another freak who lost contact with the real world. fuck you, cringley!
"Why would I want to drive to the nearest Blockbuster location when I can download an iPod movie from the comfort of my very own cable modem?"
remove the word iPod (then correct an to a) and ask:
"Why would I want to drive to the nearest Blockbuster location when I can download a movie from the comfort of my very own cable modem?"
You might not, but Blockbuster obviously has customers. I'll admit that iPod owners most likely own computers so they would most likely be in the download subset of people anyway, but I don't think that it is quite so simple if you look at the total market.
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
Geeze. Let's take the whole DRM issue out of this as an issue. Why on earth would you drive to your local BB to do this?
Probably more to the point, why would Apple choose to latch onto a dying business? That's the real reason this plan would never happen. When was the last time Steve Jobs purposely looked backwards in terms of content and product distribution?
why would I, joe consumer, tech savvy enough to use video ipod to hook to tv to watch movies, drive to blockbuster to download them? I dont drive to a blockbuster to submit this post...Why all this driving? Why not put wireless chip in ipod so joe user can download crap directly to his ipod from wherever he wants? Why not just download to his computer and usb to ipod? This article was funded by oil lobbyists.and yes,I did not read the fucking article.
iPod is basically a hard drive, that can also play the files it stores on its tiny screen.
The fact that it can only play 320x240 does not mean that the video-out has to be 320x240. It could very easily be WXGA or whatever.
For example, my Palm has 480x320 screen where I can view powerpoints, but it can connect to an LCD projector and drive it at 800x600, displaying the very same powerpoints.
As for space, you can comfortably store 2 hours of quality XGA in under a Gig. So, easily get 60 movies per iPod!
Holy hell, a VCR with 120 hours worth of tapes, that I can put in my shirt pocket!!!! Wouldn't you totally hit that?
No offence to the good people that work at blockbuster, but I'm not handing over my ipod to the people that work there. I can already see the "Blockbuster is not responsible for loss of data, cosmetic or electrical damage caused to your device during transfer" fine print.
Not to mention the Tarintino wannabe desk jockey with a chip on his shoulder after you try to rent Navy Seals or somesuch.....
how big is a dvd quality movie? how fast is usb? how long will the queues be?
Not everyone has broadband. Even if you do have broadband, many people use DSL which averages around 768kpbs. You have a video Ipod, you are on a business trip, but no computer, you go to Blockbuster (BB) to download a movie. Some people like going to video stores to talk to video people. BB storefront is a dying model. If BB can get some sort of cross licensing, they can install BB branded kiosks at airports, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc.
I can see, the value of it, but I don't think it will work for quite a few reasons. Mostly because I can''t really see Apple partnering with another company.
If this is the stuff that Cringely steals, I'd hate to see the ideas that he skips.
Dvorak and Cringely both in the same day! We're doomed, folks!
Sorry Cringely, http://www.blockbuster.com/homepages/LoadBlockbust erHomepage.action
Blockbuster is already picking up the Netflix model and supplanting it with free in-store rentals.
Notice that Burst.com also announced that they are waiting another month to file their counter-claim to Apple's original suit.
What does this mean?
1. Burst.com needs more time to get their ducks in a row?? - Not likely. Any patent attorney worth their shiny shoes could have seen this stink with Apple coming from at least 946 smoots away. I can't imagine that Burst.com didn't anticipate Apple's suit and thus, they know how to reply.
2. Burst.com is stalling for time in case someone else is going to buy them in the near future - Why would Sony or Microsoft swoop in now when they didn't all of last year? They've got their own dudes with shiny shoes who are advising them to wait on the sidelines. I'm postive that no one in high-tech thinks that Burst.com's patents are valid -- however, someone has to jump in and sue. If Apple does, let 'em. Sony and Microsoft and Amazon and NetFlix and Blockbuster and . . . . insert old media company here . . . will jump in the pond after Apple's determined the water temperature. No one ELSE is going to buy Burst.com until this thing is clear.
3. Burst.com and Apple are working out a deal - Now this one . . . I think I can smell. Apple's suit is a great opening chess move. I can see Burst.com demanding a hefty licensing fee that amounts to something silly like amounts that have more than 9 figures or huge amounts each year. I'll bet Burst.com even has the moxy to think that their patents are worth hundreds of millions alone. What better way to get good terms for Apple than to file a suit? Dare Burst.com to go to trial . . and risk losing the patents . . . or settle on a lower licensing fee or selling price.
I'll bet at least my own shiny shoes that these suits are just negotiating by other means.
Exactly. The whole point is I don't WANT to leave home. If I'm going to drive to blockbuster -- why fiddle w/ ipod connections, and download nonsense when I could just get a DVD. I want the movie to start streaming the moment I hit the download button on my computer/tv/what have you.
I think I should not have used the word "stealing" .. because I think it's unintentional .. as in he thinks it's an original idea .. but the concepts were thought of before .. and then maybe he doesnt do the full background research and/or give credit/acknowledge to others with fairly similar ideas.
I'm not really disputing your questioning, (though there are people out there who don't have broadband, I'm one of them,) however consider this. After testing the waters and working out the bugs through their retail locations, put the whole thing into a vending kiosk and leasing it out to other businesses, supermarkets, drugstores, shopping malls, etc. Now you have impulse video rentals.
Most wouldn't impulse buy the average DVD for $15, but if they came across a kiosk at the mall and noticed it offered the movie they were chatting with their friends about ten minutes ago, they just might be drawn into docking their iPod and renting it for $2.
Take your Video-out iPod to Blockbuster, drop it in a kiosk dock... for about 4 hours to get a decent quality full length movie ... then download from the local xServe your choice of 50,000 movies.
Why would I want to drive to the nearest Blockbuster location when I can download an iPod movie from the comfort of my very own cable modem?
If no cable company is willing to run Internet access to your geographic area, or you are otherwise happy with dial-up, then getting high-speed Internet access just for downloading movies may be more expensive than a DVD rental by mail subscription, and given the price of urban real estate, moving house is even more expensive.
Change DVD player to CD player and go back a few years.
Now how does this blurb about the iPod sound:
Apple would be asking its customers to spend hundreds of dollars (?) on a piece of hardware that would be doing more or less the same job as the CD player they already own.
terrible business model....
I like microcars
As someone said earlier, for anyone without a highspeed conection it would still be quicker probably to just go to the store and get it. and even with a broadband connection, it still might be quicker to just go to the store and get it, especially if we are considering hi-def movies or maybe movies with multiple disks (special editions etc). i was downloading 650mb cd images yesterday and those took almost 10-15 minutes each even on my highspeed connection, and correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't dvd's bigger than that anyways? not to say that i would be renting movies this way anyways, because just getting a dvd is still easier, but i don't think it's a terrible idea all together.
Ze Atomic Device! It iz Ztolen!
how big is a dvd quality movie?
Without extras, about 4 GB, or 32000 Mbit.
how fast is usb?
Theoretically 480 Mbps, practically 240 Mbps or thereabouts. 32000 Mbit / 240 Mbps = 133 seconds.
Seriously, who needs a coupla thousand square feet of overlit retail space and some glassy-eyed clerks when a vending machine can do the exact same thing, 24/7, in 12 square feet, installable in any mini-mall, public transit station, school or grocery store? If Apple were really interested in direct loads to iPods one of these and a network connection is all they need.
Figure a box the size of your typical soda machine (mostly for security & visibility), fill the bottom foot with concrete for stability and theft-discouragement, then a rack with an Xserve & some reasonably high-speed communications gear. Have it download material on a regular basis, video & audio, in whatever formats and quality required. Put some smarts into the system so local demographics are respected and demand is anticipated (Espaniol in Spanish neighborhoods, kiddie material when installed in schools, etc.) On the front stick a few TV screens showing previews and specials.
For security double encrypt all of the media content, partially decrypt as it's being iPod-loaded, then have it played back using a public key system. Then step back and see what sells. Sure music, videos, ringtones and movies can be the first products but what about software, indeed any sort of large or valuable file. Leave room in the top of the box for wireless distribution - walk nearby and your electronics can auto-discover streaming audio and video advertising in WiFi & Bluetooth, access to websites that pay Apple for the privilege, etc.
But a whole Blockbuster? Naw, a mini Lockerbuster!
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
There are quite a few areas (like, say, anywhere >2 miles outside of a suburb) where you can't get cable or DSL. These people still like to watch movies (which is one of the reasons why satellite TV is so big).
But that's just the advantage over internet distribution. No one's talking about the advantages over retail.
How many movies are in an average blockbuster. How many of you have gone there (ok, say five years ago back when you didn't just download it over your university connection) and they didn't have the movie you wanted to watch, or had already rented it?
If you have all of your collection on a hard drive, you can rent it out to everyone at once, no problem. And you can keep WAY more movies available at any one location.
The whole convenience of blockbuster is a good selection (or sometimes just large selection - how much luck do you have finding exactly the awful horror flick your friend recommended to you on p2p in any reasonable amount of time) and short time to get it - yes, it isn't as convenient as netflix or a download if you're planning ahead, but if you just want something to watch TONIGHT, it's a lot easier to stop at a store on your way home than scour p2p or call netflix and wait a day.
I could definitely see my parents (who don't have broadband) using this, and if it were tied into a fully stocked online store/rental (and therefore, I already had a video ipod) I could myself using it, too, when I don't have time to wait for a download.
It's not as good as a full download store for those of us on fat pipes, but a large portion of the country can't or won't get those, and for those people I could see this being quite useful (assuming you made the whole thing so easy to use that they wouldn't be intimidated by it - that'd be the hard part).
iPods had a big advantage over portable CD players - more portability. They were smaller than portable CD players, more convenient to use, much more portable than CD libraries. I don't think the video iPod has any similar advantage. It's not a portable viewer, as long as you're still taking it home to watch on your TV. If people start watching movies on VR glasses or something then that sounds like a much more promising paradigm.
iPods could also use songs downloaded from the internet. There's a marginal corresponding advantage here: by transferring songs from your computer to your TV through an iPod you avoid issues with noise in the TV room. But it's not the only, or probably best, solution to that problem.
Those who do have broadband are much more likely to forgo the blockbuster stores thus making blockbuster totally redundant for Apple. And that's why Cringely is full of it.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Not everyone has an iPod or cares about Apple.
The beauty of those shiny plastic disks called DVDs is that you don't need any special means of transporting them from a store to your house.
Besides, how long would it take to copy 6-40 Gb of files to an iPod through a dock. How many customers per hour does a blockbuster store serve?
Most people who visit video stores seem to hire 2-3 movies at a time, possibly more for weekly hires. This seems like an awfully slow way to process customers.
Let me depict this scenerio to you in a 1980's theme (this is sweet, trust me):
Ok, so imagine it's 1980s'ish. Transformers and He-man are the shit right now. VHS just crushed Betamax so everyone is buying VCR's(you know, the things that play VHS tapes?). Blockbuster sees that all it's VHS tapes are costing it a fortune! They have to purchase dozens of copies of the same movie, and even more for a popular one. Not to mention the VHS tapes wear-out and must be replaced. This is costing Blockbuster a lot of money and it's desperatly looking to cut cost. Seeing that everyone owns a VCR, they have a brilliant idea: Make people buy a VHS tape and bring it to the store. Allow the people to make copies of Blockbuster's one(1) copy of Conan the Barbarian or whatever sweet shit just came out. Since this is 1980s'ish, there is no DMCA (Rock on!). As this technology improves, customers can copy movies in under 20 minutes...
Sadly, this business model didn't succeed. Why? Because it's the dumbest idea ever (bar Cringly's suggestion). I'd probably still rent all the copies of He-man though.
--Brad Bender
Wow, that's backwards thinking for you! Why bother leaving the house?
All apple needs to do is upgrade the mac mini to include an ipod video docking station and convince us that we need one in the living room. Download movies from the iTunes video store and play them using the mac mini. If you want to take a movie to a friends house just sync it to the ipod video go to said friends living room with an s-video cable and viola: The ipod is the new DVD media and player all in one. Exactly where they want to be.
All this sneaker-net idea of his would do is slow Blockbusters death at Apple's expense.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
Take your Video-out iPod to Blockbuster
lost me already
Waitaminnit, isn't Blockbuster that "Family-Oriented" video store that refuses to carry such dangerous stuff as The Last Temptation of Christ? You'd think that if farsighted Jobs were to pick a company to hook up with, it might not be Blockbuster anyway.
So, we're all going to be using gasoline just for some bits that could have been sent accross a wire? Next thing you know people will start driving to the supermarket to buy water that could have been brought to them by a pipe...
NOT TO MENTION THAT.... Once I sync my iPod to something new it erases all of the current content to put the new content on. What an idiot, why would Apple need Blockbuster?
Just rent the dvd, rip it to your system, and you can encode it any way you see fit...
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
I can see the headline now: "Apple partners with Blockbuster to target growing market of Dial-up users who don't have a modem in their new Mac Book Pro"
If such a plan were to take hold, might we see a massive outcry from the manufacturers of DVDs?
Indeed, it is not unusual for an industry that is about to be obsoleted to put up a ruckus over the new and upcoming business models.
Now, they may not have enough clout to take any significant action in their favour. Some might suggest that it would be harmful to the economy if such an industry were to be put down. But alas, that is not a true statement to make. The decrease in demand for DVDs would be caused by a vast increase in demand for bandwidth and communication services. Thus again we may witness a costly method of production obsoleted by a far more efficient and effective method.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Sorry dude, you need a computer to use an iPod. Sure, there are a few folks out there who probably have all their music on their friend's computer, but those people are few and far between. Seeing that the iPod demographic, while mainstream, tends to be the technically elite mainstream... and fairly cosmopolitan, it's safe to say that a large percentage of the the demographic has fairly decent internet access. And, so what if it takes 2 hours to download a movie? Many people download things while they sleep, movies would be one of them.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
Yes, but you are underestimating how lazy I am.
Tomorrow, Dvorak is going to follow in Cringely's steps and predict that Apple is going to start selling iPods in drive-throughs in an exclusive partnership with Burger King.
Isn't "Blockbuster" under indictment in mutliple states for lying to the public and violting consumer protection laws? Why would Apple damage their reputation by entering into an agreement with a crooked company like 'Blockbuster'?
Holy hell, a VCR with 120 hours worth of tapes, that I can put in my shirt pocket!!!! Wouldn't you totally hit that?
no, I don't have sex with electronics
-Bucky
"Why not a storefront on Apple or one of the other online distributers (Movielink, etc...) where you buy and download?"
I believe it's called "iTunes"
The mark of a mature person is not creating arbitrary criteria for considering others mature.
Man, my iPod is going to a lot less cool when my Mom has one.
A small quibble: your point 1 is wrong. Cringely's idea is that you would be renting the movies. You would not need to return it though. The DRM license would just expire after a determined amount of time.
Oh, and that invalidates your second point too. You don't buy songs at Virgin or Tower because there is no mechanism for uploading songs from your iPod to your computer (according to Apple anyway). However when renting, Apple does not need to provide a way to keep it on your computer. You will want it to be deleted after the license expires.
So, it's standard broadcast TV quality. Which is pretty bad. I for one would not want to watch this on a high def TV.
Considering the hours it would take to transfer...
you'd have to leave and come back to pick it up later...
and aside from being inconvenient...
minimum-wage highschool and college kids will make off with millions in stolen iPods and video content. "$5.74 an hour? Fuck this job."
*yoink*
"Later bitchez."
Drive to Mexico, sell the iPods and burned DVDs of the movies, and then get wasted and get VD from a prostitute. And then win up in a Mexican jail. Retirement!
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
How much is a DVD? 5 GB? Let's say we have an iPod that size.
What BB could do is to stock iPods preloaded with movies? You go and pick up a movie. When a movie is in demand, they load many iPods with the movie. When it goes out of demand, they replace the movie by a newer one.
They get to re-use the hardware. They could also do just-in-time inventory - if a movie is left with 2 copies, they just start loading another 2.
BB could charge customers a deposit to rent the device.
But I still think a better solution is downloadable movies.
I don't know, it just seems to me that Blockbuster wouldn't sign on to such a deal and completely abandon their core business in this fashion. What happens when those users -do- get broadband? How many years away is that really? Is Blockbuster okay when, in a few years, Apple has seen a substantial drop in their customer base using these service centers, because of the convenience from their home, and decides they're done? Where will Blockbuster go then?
"Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
1. iPod movies wouldn't sell enough copies to save Blockbuster from the impending Bankruptcy and shutdown of all locations that don't start renting porn.
2. How many people who don't have iPods don't have broadband? I have a 6 mbps cable connection at home, and even though it's only about four blocks to the nearest Blockbuster, I'd still just download the movie and save myself the bother of leaving the house.
This sounds at lot like those promised CD burning stations that never went anywhere, or the mp3 sale stations that never went anywhere. A lame idea well behind the times.
I really hope the day doesn't come where my only means of getting entertainment is a digital download of some sort. While Netflix definitely beats out the local Blockbuster in renting something I plan for, it doesn't really do much when we've got a whim for something and want to watch it *now*. Will download on demand give me the library of old Rambo movies or UFC titles or whatever the heck I'm in the mood in that the mom and pop video store has but the big chains don't?
Consider for a moment how much of a boon this could be to an "Evil doer." (To borrow a phrase)
You take your Ipod, and plug it into a completely foreign system. What kind of protections does their device have in place to ensure someone has not infected the terminal with malware? What about the kiosk inventorying everything you have on your Ipod and sending it to the company, who sells the information back to RIAA or MPAA?
Many savvy people will eschew using their USB drives thile using library computers. (In addition to being spied upon.) I would think these same people would avoid plugging their lovely iPod into a foreign socket.
Usually I'm hoping to catch Thursday's column before I leave work on Friday.
You've got lots of locations. Okay. You pay rent on all those locations. They're huge, meant for carrying a vast inventory, which is now able to fit on three or four xServes. You want Jobs to buy cash registers in every neighborhood? Don't be nuts.
The thing is, portable DVD players are already cheaper than video iPods. And regular DVD players are cheaper than an iPod Shuffle.
Going with the iPod really doesn't get you much of an advantage. The screen is smaller, the video is lower quality when hooked up to a TV. The only advantage might be that you can keep more than one movie on the iPod, but that strikes me as being much less significant than the ability to keep thousands of songs on an iPod versus a few songs on a CD.
There's no way Blockbuster is going to try to make a business out of selling or renting iPod-based movies to the few customers who would prefer to watch on their wee small iPod screen, and would leave home to go to a Blockbuster in order to do so.
I can't see many people doing that. If you're going to drive to the store, you're likely to grab a DVD to watch on your TV.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
Forget Blockbuster, Apple already has a network of retail stores covering the majority of the US population (as well as significant parts of other markets), already with high-speed net access, computers, etc, all they would need is an XServe RAID full of movies, and they could be loading up iPods (or DVD-R) all over the place. You could even queue up some content on the Apple website, and have it burned to DVD-R or ready to load on the iPod when you get to the store. There is definitely a market for this type of service.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
As an addendum, there is one place where I think this business model would work well...
Airports. The ideal market for this would be travellers facing a few hours on a plane, who probably would appreciate being able to pick up a video to watch without being encumbered by a DVD case, bag, plastic wrapper, etc.
Especially if the service allowed the movie to be loaded onto a laptop for customers without a video iPod.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
in theory the movie would have some DRM so it can not be moved from the ipod? maybe it will be unusable in a few days? i don't think they would want you to transfers the movie off the iPod anyway.... you can hook up an iPod to a non-home computer and play the songs off it without actually moving them to the local drive. same could go for an iPod.
the only reason you can not drag files from the iPod is that the music is in a hidden folder. like somebody above said, in MS Windows you just have to make the folder visible, and the same goes for the Mac. the hack has been out there since the original iPods.
people came up with this hypothetical idea long before the iPod With Video even existed. it was born in the realm of "if you can not legally rip DVDs, what video content could you put on an iPod and how?" i know i read this idea, and it does not seem completely insane. you keep hearing rumors of Apple pondering physical kiosks where you can buy and load on music. that seems far more silly than this. for a lot of people, downloading a whole movie probably takes longer than driving to the store and loading the movie on the iPod.
I can already get it on iTunes. Why go anywhere? I don't pay for 20mbit broadband so I have to phsically take my iPod somwhere to load it. Worst idea ever! Online movies on demand is what I am demanding, don't offend me by telling me I have to drive somewhere to get a digital format these days. Go back to last century!
There's a good reason why iTunes doesn't do rentals: Imagine downloading an 8 GB hi-def video file, or even a 700 MB file, over a 1 mbitps connection, only to have it vanish off your HD in a few days. You'd spend many times as long downloading as watching it. With bricks and mortar downloading, the transport-to-consumption time ratio would be more reasonable.
But I agree with another poster; this only requires a vending machine, not a whole store.
Yeah, but the iPod would have to have enough horsepower to decode a high-resolution video. I don't remember IIRC what processor the video models have, but decoding 800x600 H.264 takes an exponential amount more CPU power than decoding 320x240. Rendering powerpoint presentations isn't nearly as stressful.
my cd player didnt play movies
This does actually make some sense. Once you read enough of the article to realise that he's aiming it at people with _no high speed access_.
And for those who say "Why not just have a vending machine?" Would you really stand in front of a vending machine for 20 minutes while you decided what you wanted to rent? And where would you get your popcorn from?
But, at the end of the day, it probably would be a case of just prolonging Blockbusters demise, the cost of high speed access will just keep dropping, but still, how many years realistically til we all have >50Mbit to the home? 10 years? 15? In the mean time we keep making our media files larger. As someone else pointed out, even on current high speed internet, HD media is a long download.
Kyle.
The previous comments are only true, if no-one says they're wrong.
what's so new about this idea? Is it that it's blockbuster and its video? ...and what's with the fascination with xServes? Is it really necessary to use a specific Apple server product for this example? Couldn't any potential server do? Certainly for the author to make his point an xServe wouldn't be necessary.
I bought an episode of lost the other day for fun. At the same time, I downloaded the HD stream with AC3 audio from USENET for a comparison. Well, the USENET download was 3 times the size (700meg vs 250meg) and took 1/3 the time to download. The USENET file has NO DRM, looks fabulous on my Sony SXBR and the AC3 is very nice through my optical connection to my amp. Now, the itunes video, holy crap, why isnt anyone complaining about the quality of the audio, let alone the low bitrate of the video. I feel my $2 was a total waste and I will not buy any more video from itunes. The quality is a joke not to mention I paid for it legally and the download speed was a fraction of giganews (free through adelphia).
I just don't get why I would want to do this. DVD is an excellent method for distributing movies. It doesn't matter if the movie is rented or purchased. So, again, how is the broken? Netflix brings the movie to me.
Later,
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Landfill Mining Co.
Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
Accept the first point being erroneous, but the second one is still valid. What I'm saying is that the software on the iPod is tied tightly to the computer. If you "rented" a movie or song on your iPod and a third party software package injected it into your playlists, when you sync with iTunes, your library database would be reset by the software on your computer. Your movie file might still be there, but the way Apple's DRM works does not allow for you to load information into your iPod from another machine and bring it back to your computer. It'll wipe out any changes you made while away from your "home" iTunes.
m ething-you've-already-paid-for business model.
It's not that you need to load the music or movie onto your computer. It's that iTunes is really the one in control of your iPod playlist, and it's going to destroy anything you try to do when it syncs. Don't believe me? Look around for software to load music onto your iPod from two different computers, even if they have the same FairPlay registration info.
From what little I know about the FairPlay algorithms and how they're implemented in iTunes, it's a DRM thing. Won't happen unless Apple gives up FairPlay. I mean, c'mon. One of the most asked for features is a way load music onto your iPod from any computer in the house. We don't really care about moving the music from one machine to another. We just want to load Barry Manilow from our desktop and Motley Crue from our laptop without having the damn thing ask, "This iPod is tied to a different computer. Would you like to wipe out 45GB of data to load this one song?"
And as for point number one: I'd bet it's against Steve Job's philosophy to rent media. I believe he sees DRM as a way to restrict people from freely copying copyrighted works. I don't think he's a big believer in the RIAA/MPAA pay-out-your-ass-for-the-rest-of-your-life-for-so
Finally, this will idea is fiscally impossible. It'll never happen. Blockbuster rents DVDs for $4.65 in my neighborhood (which is why everyone I know uses Netflix). iTunes sells TV shows, videos, etc. for $1.99. I can't see Apple renting movies for more than $1.99, and I can't see Blockbuster renting movies for less than $4.65, nor selling movies for less than $9.99. There's no middle ground with these two companies.
firstly the current gen ipods are incredibly cool.
massively sexier than previous generations.
They also do good video right now.
As I type one of my staff sitting behind me is using my ipod to watch a movie I ripped onto it last night (it's a slow day). It took 3 hours to convert the DVD and I had to buy it in the first place so buying the content over a USB line has some merit even for me. the other guy in the room is jealous and wants me to plug the ipod into the TV.
my "right-now" ipod will do video and audio out to a TV set, just plug the cables into the dock-port.
people who don't have computers would quite like to have this ipod. the girl sitting behind me, my parents, my girlfriend (who does have a computer and broadband but wants the ipod), the guy down the hall.
if a store front offers a content portal then the ipod desiring don't need a computer and broadband to have a sexy ipod full of content.
slashdot readers are not the target market. that doesn't mean there is no market.
and if you read cringely you'll not that even if it doesn't work apple will shift 100,000 computers to blockbuster and god knows how many ipods. not a bad result.
but it could still work.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
This makes a wierd sort of sense. But if all Apple is going to do is drop a kiosk into every Blockbuster, why do they even need Blockbuster. Forget Blockbuster, they're dead. Think 7-11. There's way more convenience stores than blockbusters. Put your kiosks in them, like ATMs. Or in the food court at the mall. Next to the batteries at your super market. iTunes kiosks could be placed anywhere, forget outdated brick and mortar video stores.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
...in the real world it would be more like this:
1) you are already out driving around, hitting the package store, pizza joint and new girlfriends house (you hope anyway, at least she said hi to you once and said maybe you could see her, so you are heading over)
2) you notice you are driving RIGHT BY a blockbuster, think seeing a flick might be cool tonight, maybe get her "in the mood"
3) you pull in, a few minutes later are off to studio apartment in the "cheap and wished it was trendy" part of town with your FAST transferred movie, new friend in tow...
OR
1) you get home, GF wants to see a chick flick that you OBVIOUSLY don't already have in your sci fi and prAWn collection, you go "sure, I gotz me the high speed intarweb!! Noe probz!1! I duh Seezur of Nee-ro!
2) 3 hours later it's done downloading, then you get to compress, re compress, de compress, encode,re-code, rip, spindle and mutilate, burn, cuss a coaster, try it again, finally it's sort of done! You look around, go WTF??, because (almost) GF is long annoyed, has split,with the beer,and goes to visit (and duke) the JOCK with the HAIRCUT who's a marketing major grad and OWNZORZ THE LOCAL BLOCKBUSTER FRANCHISE AND 10,000 SHARES OF APPL
YOU MAKE THE CALL, WHICH METHOD IS COOLER?
Like I said in an earlier post, such a scheme would only appeal to people without broadband or a cable connection with video-on-demand. Such people are more likely to spend $50 on a cheap DVD player than $100+ on a video iPod. How often will these people rent a movie?
No, I will not work for your startup
You make a good point. The current situation is that a rental service that downloaded movies to your iPod will not work for the reasons you describe: the iPod wipes out all data when synching with a device that is different from the previous sync.
I do not think you fully appreciate the fact that Apple controls the whole iPod process. Apple owns the hardware, the software, the DRM, everything. There has not yet been a compelling legal reason why someone would want to fill their iPod with copyrighted songs and videos from two sources (move your laptop's music to your desktop and then sync with your desktop), but plenty of reasons involving piracy. So--surprise!--Apple has not developed this feature.
On the other hand, this Blockbuster rental idea is just such a compelling and legal reason to add this feature. If Apple actually wants to proceed with this plan, there is nothing aside from the software in the current DRM, iPod firmware and iTunes synchronization solutions preventing this from happening. Updating the software would be trivial, perhaps aside from providing backwards compatibility, which Apple has never been terribly concerned with anyway. You are just one quick iTunes and iPod update away from having Apple invalidate your currently valid points.
This is not to say that I believe that a joint-venture with Blockbuster is the direction Apple is heading. Like you, I also feel that Jobs has a penchant for owning over renting something (is he fighting for Bush's 'ownership society'?). While Apple does seem to value the brick and mortar aspects of business, that does not mean Apple and Blockbuster are terribly compatible companies. I personally think that Blockbuster is in such poor shape that they would salivate all over the terms of any sort of deal with Apple's red-hot iPod, but if you are right that Blockbuster and Apple could never reach a the rental and revenue sharing agreement, then this whole idea is an exercise in whimsical fancy.
Cringely has his head up his ass. SURE, I have nothing better to do than take a drive to Blockbuster to get some content. Perhaps he heard of the Internet. Or perhaps he heard of the recent comments of one of Intel's founder's on how ridiculously obsolete distribution of content on physical media is.
Cringely is in good company with Dvorak - they understand NOTHING, but talk as if they had always something to teach all the rest of us.
Cringely => Advocated a Sun + Sony merger (no comment)
Dvorak => Complained that the idle process in Windows was taking 98% of his CPU
Call this flamebait, but I call them FUCKTARDS. It is more accurate.
Going to Blockbuster is old school. Ever since Netflix started their mailing DVD's I've cringed at having to actually GO to a Blockbuster.
But I do have a question for all you iPod owners: is it really worth getting videos for iPod? Isn't the screen insanely small?
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
You didn't read the article. He's saying that people will take their iPods to Blockbuster stores, and then download the movies onto them, then take them home, and hook up the iPod to their tv to watch the movie. You don't have to return the movie, that's great, but everything else sounds like more of a pain than renting a DVD.
No more lists, no more waiting, no more "guaraneed or it's free". Just get your sh*t when, how and where you want it.
Downloading is most convenient of all, though not the most cost-effective. DVD rental is cheaper, but things can be out of stock. Case in point: I got hooked on "Lost". Downloaded the first couple of episodes from season one last Xmas after getting my iPod video. Watched them and then went on to rent the DVDs for most of the rest of the season. Watched a DVD-worth every few days. Burned through most of season one in a couple of weeks. Went in to get disk 6, the final disk... NOT THERE. Oh, I was jonesing.
Because of the cost ($4.00 for four episodes vs $2.00 per episode), I figured I could just wait. But no. Not there the next night or the next. Finally, I broke down and bought the last few episodes over iTunes.
Now imagine if I could have rented those via file download for the same $4.00 as I could have had the DVD rental, just by bringing my 'pod into the store? Then it wouldn't even matter if I had a computer at home. Pretty sweet idea, I think. Cringely's right; not everyone has broadband, and not everyone wants to keep lists of movies they want to see. This would be an efficient way to handle a big chunk of the market that's not being addressed.
The CB App. What's your 20?
You don't need a theoretical new iPod that can do H.264 decoding in hardware and do more than just store videos. The iPod video plays videos, with a simple cable you can hook it up to your TV and play the videos on the TV. Oh, and it does H.264 decoding in hardware. Right now.
hypothetically, speaking, let's pretend that the blockbuster kiosk is another Mac. The way it works right now, if you tried to plug in your ipod to a different computer that is not an authorized, it starts complaining and wants to delete everything you currently have stored on the ipod and synchronize with the new one. does that mean you have to authorize blockbuster's account as another user? what if you are already at the limit of authorized computer accounts?
i'm not going to drive to a local blockbuster to have more lameware installed on anything that i own..
i got sick of blockbuster along time ago..
the shitty selections, edited for content movies, ignorant employees, the late fees scams..
now, you want me to actually drive to the store to do something that could easily be done at home without blockbuster's involvement..
i feel it's just another way of installing DRM/spyware onto your computer.. i do not trust content from large corporations..
so.. fuck blockbuster.. they are dying.. it's an 80's business model, and they have had their ass handed to them by Netflix..
Apple so far has been the *only* company to be able to do so and make it profitable..
it's not going to happen.. unless, Apple does it first.. now, i can see Apple kiosks in public places serving up content for iPods.. serving up "branded" content from other businesses..
fuck blockbuster..
i hate microsoft.
Why on earth would Apple go into business with a company that sucks as much balls as blockbuster; my favourite prediction I heard about Apple 18 months ago was that they're going to go on to offer full HD movies for download using iTMS (iTunes Movie Store :o) ).
It looks increasingly as though they're creeping towards that model with iTMS, Steve Jobs' is now Disney's biggest shareholder, giving him power to start with Disney & Pixar's content (which would be well worth seeing in HD at home) and to get movie execs on board in the same way he persuaded the music industry to trust him.
Steve Jobs wants to get Apple into your living room in HD, and I think thet they think that iTunes delivering video would be an excellent way to do it. It's not an unreasonable suggestion- look at how much iTMS has changed the way online music download is percieved, with the service streaking towards 1,000,000,000 songs downloaded.
How long before we have our billionth movie download? Probably long before the billionth HD DVD or Blu Ray disc is sold.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
Because
1) he says it's for people that don't have a broadband connection
2) if Apple ever want to upgrade the kiosks/itunes they'll have to send CDs out to those ipod users without a connection, or get them to DL a 20meg itunes upgrade via dial up = not gonna happen.
If it's a product just aimed at general ipod users who have a moderate broadband then it could actually work, as I can see it being more convenient than DLing a movie on the net, then transfering it to ipod to take downstairs to watch on the TV - most people don't have their computer linked to their TV.
Does that mean you have a pair of legs that you're not using?
Care to donate them as mine are getting a bit creaky in their old age, and I could do with a new set.
There's still people enough to profit. Plenty!
The only thing I can't understand is why Apple should bother to spend money on Blockbuster (even on sale) when all they need is a power-charged vending machine.
Cringley's not on crack. But Apple should be onto Coke
I don't understand, why don't I just rent the DVD and rip it at home and have one on my computer, one on a DVD, one on my iPod and one to share with my friends (everyone) on the Internet?
Blockbusters business model makes no sense.
What is wrong with wanting an Ipod and only 7 CDs on it?
Why do everybody needs to fill the music players with uncountable hours of music that will neve be heard?
All this people boasting about 20000 songs n their Ipods are consumate idiots. Basic arithmetic will show that they wil neve ever listen to all that music.
SOmebody sensible will put a few CDs and be done with it. Somebody even more sensible would buy a small caoacity okayer.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
How the heck is my post above "Redundant"?
The questions I raised were valid, were not addressed in the TFA, and at the time I wrote the comment I wasn't aware of any previous commenters addressing the same points. What other criteria could you possibily be applying, Moderators? Do you even know the definition of the word?
Really? H.264 is quite compute intensive. Does an iPod really pack this much power?
And how about desired features like fast-forward and instantaneous skipping to the next scene?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I live in the Blueridge mountains of Virginia an hour west of DC. All I can get is dial-up. We don't have DSL, cable modem, and my 100 ft poplars and the mountain to my west prevent me from doing satellite. We are far enough out that I can't even get network TV. However, I have a 60 inch plasma HDTV and a Bose surround system and a library of 1,000 DVDs, a lot of which are documentaries, etc so my kids have something besides crap to watch (they read a lot). I visit a Blockbuster store once a week and it is 15 miles away, so I am likely to be a great candidate for this type of service, but I can tell you right now that I'm unlikely to ever use it as described.
Why? Because I'm all about owning my video and having the ability to sell them when the media they are on becomes obsolete (like VHS). After all, at $20 a pop x 1,000 DVDs, I have a real inventment. When I go to sell all those DVDs and trade up to Blu-ray (or whatever), I want something tangible that I can take a picture of and sell on eBay, and I just can't see that a terabyte video iPod loaded with movies would bring me more money than the actual physical DVD and case. Real hard to take a picture of bits.
What someone SHOULD do is kill off DVDs and the upcoming Blu-ray stuff and concentrate on building a read-only 30GB movie flash card that can somehow be loaded up *very* quickly (a GB/second) using special write hardware (perhaps located at Blockbuster and other stores). Now you have my attention. Not only would the media take up less space in my living room (allowing me to have a larger library), but it wouldn't be prone to scratching by my kids, and I still have a physical embodiment of the video that I can sell in the future. Since we already have 1GB flash cards, I don't see this as a tremendously difficult leap. The players would be a lot cheaper and more reliable too, since they would involve no moving parts.
Hmmm....forget I said anything. Think I'll start a new business....
How is this idea different than driving to Blockbuster, picking up a DVD, and driving home to watch it? I mean, besides creating a nice place for thieves to hang out where a lot of people will be walking around with expensive iPods.
You miss the point: once movies can be digitally transferred to a device, you don't need the DVDs anymore: no physical inventory, no shelf stocking costs, no running out of copies, no limit to the repertoire that can be offered to customers, no administration of the returns, no returns period.
As for being able to read a synopsis of the movie & actors on the back of a DVD case, no problem: just put posters up on the wall, or provide the publice with banks of computers from which they can browse thorugh the store catalog.
Also, remember that a majority of the public probably don't have broadband and can't download the movies off the Internet.
This idea is brilliant.
Slashdot entertains. Windows pays the mortgage.
at the time I wrote the comment I wasn't aware of any previous commenters addressing the same points.
You should have refreshed before submitting. Some moderators can be anal about that.
There's no way Apple would hang a millstone like Blockbuster around its neck. It's a company on the way down, without the means to fund such a boondoggle. They've had to renegotiate credit in the last year to keep from defaulting on existing debt.
What's more, there are several reasons why studios would not play ball with such a scenario, primarily they are very paranoid about digital distribution of their catalogs. That's why Blockbuster's technically proven attempt at VOD died in 2000. Also, even if the DRM stumbling block was solved, all-new revenue sharing deals would need to be cut, and they would definitely not be in Blockbuster's favor. On top of that, most Blockbuster stores still transmit sales records to corporate via 56K modem. And try training your average Blockbuster store employee to maintain the infrastructure required for something like this.
If Apple wanted to do something like this, they could do it in their own stores, led by a CEO (Jobs) that has newly-minted Hollywood cred, and not a bungler (Antioco) who has managed to kill off most of the cash cows that have kept Blockbuster afloat.
17 minutes, vs. 37.
You don't have to sit there and stare at the download indicator for 37 minutes.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
And the limitations of the current iPod are going to continue into the next generation because...?
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.