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'Games as Porn' Bill Passes Utah House
The state bill which attempts to equate gaming with pornography has passed the vote in the Utah house of representatives. GameDailyBiz reports: "Even though there's still no evidence of a direct link between video game violence and acts of violence committed in real-life, Hogue suggested that playing violent games leads to 'automatic learning of aggressive behavior,' and that violent games have played a role in school shootings. 'Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not,' he said, referring to the Columbine massacre."
Someone should have gotten up and made a rebuttal of "Or maybe yes." and then there'd be a deadlock as the opposing side tries to come up with an actual argument.
You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
They would still commit the violent acts even though they do not play video games. They wouldn't use the ideas of violence from the games (aka: GTA).
Would these same kids have done this anyway without being made to go to school? Maybe not.
if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
...te?
Because after R'ing TFA, it doesn't seem to bad of an idea. I see nothing wrong with puting 'M' games behind the counter and deny access to them except 'consenting' adults.
Like this is a surprise, it's Utah which according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah
Tell me no one saw this coming.
Oops, how did this get here?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
The dreaded "gamer." Three kids go on a shooting spree and so the 1,000,000+ who play are all lining up at gun stores.
This is a law brought to you by the people who want intelligent design taught in school.
It also an example of why people are disgusted with legislators around the country.
Not to start a big flame war or anything, but doesn't invading other countries kind of encourage aggressive behavior?
It seems that it isn't a question of aggressive behavior per se, it is where the aggresive behavior comes from that matters. In other words it is bullshit.
"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not,"
Maybe he was trying to outlaw violence in movies and got his media mixed up?
I think this is a bold and positive step. Unfortunately, I believe that they have left a loop hole that needs to be immediately covered. Namely, while we can protect our children from violent video games, there are still now laws in place to protect our children from violent books. There are literally thousands of mystery books out there teaching our children how to be perfect killers. There are thousands of books glorifying war, death conflict, and even sexual perversion. I think must act immediately to step up an American Censorship board to keep violent books out of the hands of our children. I believe that all books containing 'adult content' should be separated out from books safe for children. Further, schools should have an absolute ban on violent and mature books.
If we don't act now, school shootings will continue to rise, the violent murders will continue to increase, and our children will continue to live shorter and shorter lives in this terrible and violent world.
Damn it, where's my porn?
Who wants to take bets on how many morons miss the knee deep sarcasim of the above post and think it is the real thing?
2. If you are in Utah, don't worry. I'm in Utah now, and guess one of the two will happen:
a. It won't pass the Senate, as legislative sessions here are remarkably short anyways (just a bill to get a little attention). It will simply die with time.
b. If it does pass the Senate, my money is on a "pocket" veto, pretty much just ignoring the bill. The Utah senate this year is farily tied up as it is.
In any case, here's the text for the bill and the ammendment for those interested. It'd be nice if the submitters included this information when they sent in an article on pending legislation.
I am not going to say "video game = go on killing spree". However, what I am going to say is that when I went to high school in early to late 80's the idea of gun violence did not cross our mind. I do realize that not all high schools are equal and that some gun violence did exist.
However, what disturbs me about many youth is that they do not think twice about getting a hand gun. I grew up in the country or cottage country to be exact and guns were common things. Though guns were used to go hunting for bear, deer or moose. I can't remember anybody in my circle in friends saying, "Hey look at this hand gun". It was more like, "Hey did you see the bear I shot!"
What I want to say is that I think we should consider the message we are saying with shooter and violent games. I am not so sure it is totally innocent!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
You know in the old days of politics that some people would get so angry during the debates to get up and whack their opponents to death with their cane. Yet their was no bill to outlaw politicians who inspire such violent behavior. I wonder why?
"Absolutely Maybe!"
Try to remember that this nonsense is coming from the great state of Utah, one of the most backwards and repressed places in the entire First World. What exactly did you expect from a political entity which, Constitution be damned, is essentially controlled by the Mormon church?
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Yup. Repeal the 2nd Amendment, so that the biggest and most brutish among us can rule over the more civilized. Great plan, that.
Gun control: The belief that a woman, raped and strangled with her panties, is morally superior to a dead rapist.
Why should your inability to raise non-psychopathic children result in my not being able to own a firearm for self-defense?
That's super convenient. Now I only have one hobby!
-- Kate
Call this a knee-jerk reaction stemming from childhood wounds, but I beleive many school shootings don't happen becasue of violent video games. These kids were screwed up for other reasons. I blame bad parenting, either being abusive and / or negligent to their child. Next I blame the school administrations. I have been to seven different schools, and 5 of them all did the same thing. Say student A and his buddies start irritating student B. Administration tells studen B to ignore it. Student B will only ignore it so long before reacting. 99 times out of a 100, student B will get in trouble for reacting, but student A will get off with nothing. This pisses of Student B. Eventually studen B gets more and more pissed. Mabey we should see what's going on inside the schools?
Maybe this'll spur them to get around to cleaning up that little polygamy "problem" over there. May I present exhibit a: Google Results 1 - 100 of about 94,300 for mormon wife underaged
There are literally thousands of mystery books out there teaching our children how to be perfect killers.
;)
If these books teach nothing else, if that lady named Jessica Fletcher shows up in your town, you should hold off on your murder plans
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I know you're trying to make a point that one form of content is about the same as another. But really there are people out their that would completely agree with your ideas. It's this same attitude that puts some neo-nazi guy in jail in Austria for making a speech 16 years ago that the holocaust didn't happen. Some people truly believe that ideas themselves are dangerous, and need to be controlled. A scary thought in a country who was founded in direct opposition to this idea.
AccountKiller
In other news, they're working on a bill requiring teachers to say that evolution is just one among many theories. They're working on a bill to ban gay/straight alliance clubs from high schools. They've decided that Utah's future economic growth depends heavily on new roads, but not at all on education.
Every morning, my local public radio station does a legislative summary from the non-partisan League of Women Voters. A good day is one when I only have four or five stomach-clenching moments of impotent rage. Our legislators are not reasonable, not competent, and not listening to anything but the "still small voice" that they think is the Holy Spirit talking directly into their miniscule brains.
Good response letter from the Salt Lake City Weekly: (scroll down to "Gamers Know Reality"). At least a few of us still have some sense. Just nowhere near a voting majority.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Rep. Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem) pointed out that HB 257 is the most narrowly defined legislation of these kinds of violent games bills. "I think it is worth a try," she said. "Otherwise we give up and say the court will always determine our values."
And, Dastardly said, "It is worth a try to keep these bills from being passed otherwise we give up and say the politicians will always determine our values."
Do not worry. You can always request for asylum in Canada.
Would these same kids have done this anyway without being picked on daily at school? Maybe not.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Why should your inability to raise non-psychopathic children result in my not being able to own a firearm for self-defense?
Maybe you should consider moving to a civilized country like Canada, England, Australia, or New Zealand, where you wouldn't need to own a firearm for self-defense, because we don't have gangs of psychopathic children with guns roaming the streets.
I know I'm probably going to get modded up for saying this, but man, America is so fucked up right now.
Yes, this is a great plan. Lets ban anything that might hurt us, live in cages and eat antibiotics with every meal, completely emancipated from the demon called Personal Responsibility.
The "gaming generation" will be in power in about ten to twenty years and we can undo the damage done by these ignorant good old boys. Unfortunately, until then we're forced to suffer.
Kids would be much less prone to violence if we made them watch the news instead of playing video games. I'm sure the Iraq war wouldn't inspire anyone to violence.
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
Hi.
I'm not going to assume you're an American. But can we suppose for argument's sake that you are?
Okay, here is my argument: (and yes, I know it rests on the assumption that you're a leftist since you wish to repeal the second amendment - but I figure thats a safe assumption.)
Do you trust Bush with a monopoly on firearms?
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Not that I disagree, mind you, but that was rather off-topic and flamebait.
It's all one big sum; Violent games, television, movies and life equals violent children.
In order to break the 'fashion' one must have their parents like the 'hip' things like guns. Once parents like violence it automatically become 'un-cool' in children's eyes. The more parents forbid violent video games the more they will want to play them. Just my two cents.
For those of us too lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy to read the article... what's this got to do with pornography...?
Frog blast the vent core.
Of course, repealing the 2nd ammendment and banning firearms would be death at the polls
Aye, because firearms bans are working so well elsewhere.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Don't worry, man, we've got you covered. BANNED BOOKS[upenn.edu] Did you really think we'd actually let LITERATURE fall into the hands of those unpredictable teens?!
I'd like to point out that Columbine occurred in a "gun-free zone".
When was the last time you ever heard of a mass killing at a gun show?
Laws that ban inanimate objects are asinine pandering and don't ever work in a free society that values individual privacy. Drugs, Games, Porn and Guns all fall under this umbrella.
But it does seem hypocrical to ban the games which might have precipitated the shooting and to allow semi-automatic weapons that definately assisted in the shooting. How can you ban games that let people shoot in fantasy but not the weapons that let people shoot in reality?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Thanks for the info! Would explain the lack of a senate sponsor on the bill.
It's dead in the water, no hope for it.
"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos?"
no the question is: " would the same kids would have done this if the guns they used were locked away from them?"
you give a kid a gun... you show him how to shoot it... you show him how to load it... you show him where you put it....
aren't you helping that kid killing other people by showing him how to do it?
if the gun was locked out, he wouldn't have done it.....
Given how active this topic has been, missing a reply was bound to happen sooner or later. Thanks for checking it out.
Gun control: The belief that a woman, raped and strangled with her panties, is morally superior to a dead rapist.
Violent Video games today.
Violent History Books tommorow.
Sorry, my knee just jerked and made me type this.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Alright. I've heard enough. These violent games must be stopped in case they maybe could possibly lead some kids to behave aggressively!!! Who's with me?! - Hogue
Would these same kids have done this thing if their mothers had aborted them as fetuses before birth? Definitly not!
Likewise, would you have said this thing if your mother had aborted you as a fetus before birth? Definitely not!
Blames bad parenting on VIDEO GAMES?????
To the citizens of the USA: STOP! count to ten! You're loosing track of reality and common sense!
Every where that chick goes, people die. Seems pretty suspicious to me...
Just think of 'violent video games' as subliminal messaging/free training for the U.S. Army. :-)
"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not,' he said, referring to the Columbine massacre." What a moron. Would they have done this if guns were illegal and therefore much harder to get? Probably not!
Give us this day our garlic bread and lead us not into vegetarianism but deliver us some pizza.
Wow, the politicians will do everything short of the one act that would actually make a difference. Of course, repealing the 2nd ammendment and banning firearms would be death at the polls (and elsewhere, probably). So we get crap like this for the sake of appearances. Such courage. You're right, it would make a difference. Go look at what's happening in Darfur to people who don't own firearms. They're being hacked to death with dull machetes. And you're right, it would be death at the polls and elsewhere, as those with the ability and inclination to ignore the laws shot anyone who didn't vote for their candidate like it was waythef**kbackwhen before the secret ballot was enforced. It'd also be death elsewhere as these people, holding the power of life and death over their fellow men, let that power go to their head. And yes, this stuff *is* crap, for it trades more than a little liberty for not even the guise of security.
http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/mondays.asp
There were school shootings long before video games started to take off, and long before the advent of the kind of graphic ultraviolence that this bill targets....
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
During my brief tour in the looney bin, I learned that people who talk to God can be perfectly normal. On the other hand, people who hear God talk to them are totally nuts.
My momma gave birth to a winner, I gotta win.
Another state gets added to me "Don't Live There" list!
If enough states make enough different laws and people move to one that matches their values, eventually all like-minded people will live in a state suited to all their whims.
Would Charles Manson and his teenage accomplices have killed if it weren't for Beatles music?
I think its clear to everyone now that the Beatles are the real threat.
Goo Goo Cah Chu
-Have you been living under a rock or something?
-No I'm from Utah
-Oh sorry...
You just got troll'd!
from the summary: "Even though there's still no evidence of a direct link between video game violence and acts of violence committed in real-life..."
Yeah. There's no direct evidence for speciation either, if I hear right.
FACT: 80% of criminals wear socks. We need some more anti-sock legislation!
Could this be a step in the direction of correcting that? Could this lead to the categorization of video violence as porno? Could this lead to removing violence from TV shows accessible to children? Could this lead to the eventual realization that violence AND sex are things that are exploitive, explicit, often obscene, and therefore something that we as adults need to choose wisely when exposing children to, but then with this evening of the standard between sex and violence, we will see that important choice as a matter of PERSONAL responsibility, thus leading to LESS government interference?
oh, you're right - I'm just daydreaming again.
This space available.
Goddamn Mario. It's not my fault. Blame my parents.
Also whenever I'm in a big box store I get the urge to run through the aisles, eating fruit off the floor and dodging obese people in brightly colored mumus
America is so fucked up right now
Indeed. It's sad to say but we didn't have such a gun violence problem back in the day when drugs were legal and any adult could buy a thompson subgun in a sears without showing so much as a drivers license... what the hell have we done? Oh, we've created blackmarkets by creating bans on what were once legal goods... So, banning more of these goods will do what?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I may get modded as troll but it just goes to show whats what now doesn't it? "I'll turn my back to facts from certain sources so my little glass house isn't shattered..."
Pathetic.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
If games are what causes violence, then porn must surely be what causes people to have sex?
If this is true, then only people watching porn can reproduce. Hence if porn is banned, there
will be no sex and no next generation anymore.
The other way round, in order to ensure reproduction in the developed countries, free,
high-quality porn should be available to everybody. Since games = porn, the same should
be true for games.... I think I like this law!
I also have a nagging suspicion: Do all these overpopulated 3rd world countries have better
and more porn than we do?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Sometimes I just wish I didn't live in a state that makes an ass of itself at least once during a calendar year.
SYSOP ('sih-sop) n.: the guy laughing at your typing.
Wow, the politicians will do everything short of the one act that would actually make a difference. Of course, repealing the 2nd ammendment and banning firearms would be death at the polls (and elsewhere, probably). So we get crap like this for the sake of appearances. Such courage.
I'm just gonna, you know, go ahead and nullify that flamebait moderation. Dear libertarian asswipes, go back to Fark.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
You know, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to mortally wound a government agent with a firearm. It's just not a situation that presents itself very often.
Ok, ok. The deal is that I was making the case that we'll always have people killing each other w/ guns as long as we have guns. For a politician to address this by trying to ban videogames seems like pure cowardice. Nowhere in my post did I advocate repealing the 2nd amendment (I own a few rifles myself, and enjoy reading about dead highschool kids), I'm just saying that legislation like this ignores The Elephant In The Livingroom(tm).
Oh, and as a little fuck you to the mods who tagged my post flamebait, here it is again:
Wow, the politicians will do everything short of the one act that would actually make a difference. Of course, repealing the 2nd ammendment and banning firearms would be death at the polls (and elsewhere, probably). So we get crap like this for the sake of appearances. Such courage.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
Libertarian = Fewer laws.
I think you mean 'liberal', but even that's a bit of a weird one in this case, because liberal typically refers to economic rather than social agenda.
The word you're looking for it 'Authoritarian'.
Happy to help
- Anonymous Coward
You mean certain sources like the frequency of gun violence in Japan? Norway? Sweden? Or any other of the many countries with bans on handguns?
A number of posters have written on this thread, stating that there is no evidence that video game violence translates into violent behavior.
There may not be evidence from studies, but an expert in making people violent states that first-person shooters will inevitably lead to violence in some people who play them. According to Lt. Col. John Grossman, the psychologist who designed the U.S. Army's behavior modification program causing soldiers to shoot to kill more of the time, the psychological barriers to killing another human are nicely reduced by repetitive simulation of the act. Grossman used the psychological theories of behaviorism to 'improve' the in-combat behavior of soldiers. The Army has estimated that his training increases the desire of soldiers to kill enemies in close-quarters from around 10% up to 80%.
So my opinion is that Lt. Col. John Grossman is an expert on devising training that makes people less restrained in their violent behavior, he says that first-person shooters are an optimal way to accomplish the same thing, I have no reason not to believe him.
As a society, we have to weigh the cost/benefit of deconditioning people's resistance to violence vs. the merit of violent games being available. And, with that in mind, I agree with Utah.
One of the earliest school shootings occurred in 1975 in Ottawa, Canada. On Monday, October 27 of that year, 18-year-old Robert Poulin went on a killing spree at St. Pius X High School, killing one student and wounding five others before turning the gun on himself. Poulin had earlier raped and stabbed a 17-year-old friend to death.
Fucking pong. for real. it must have been the cause.
Let's see...before that we had "tennis for 2" look it up. an ancient game played on an oscilliscope in 1958. that must have been what triggered Starkweather to kill 11 people.
I'm fairly certain the game "space war" triggered Juan Corona to kill 25 migrant farmworkers in 1971.
I think you see where I'm going with this.
Correlation is not Causation.
You mean certain sources like the frequency of gun violence in Japan? Norway? Sweden?
get past the idea of "gun violence" and look at violence, rape and theft in general. You'll find something that may astound you, at least in Japan.
So, are you going to continue to be a fucking AC or are you going to own up to what you say and come out of the shadows?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
ok, we all know the media quantitize the number of under aged killers that played video games.
What about the big picture? the numbers of under aged kids that weren't used to play video games so often (or at all)?
what is the number of underage criminals that attend to church?
--
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
"Go back to Fark"? Is that the best you've got?
Why don't you pull out your gun and shoot me in the head, while you're at it? That would be just as rational, mature, and as well thought-out, you Fascist swine.
Cowards like you are the reason that criminal scum run this country and enact cowardly laws like this one every day. No amount of insults can change that fact.
It might be a flawed theory, proposed by an idiot, but one would never know based on your total shambles of a refutation.
I mean, really! If you are going to tell someone they are an idiot for proposing a connection between schoolyard violence and war, then you had better do more than invoke what you are "fairly certain" you will never hear as the basis for your counter-argument.
Because otherwise, you look like the kettle calling the pot black.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
This is a travesty, you can't let the faults of the minority affect the majority, but once again it is happening. This is another case of the government trying to find scapegoats for social problems, Columbine wasn't because those kids played Quake... it was because of a build up of a huge number of factors. This is like saying seeing the army on TV makes people want to kill others, someone needs to set the people who think up laws like this straight before they get too much power. I'd like to keep my civil liberties, thanks.
Business Voyeur
the idiot politicans want to make it SEEM like they are doing something about violence in young people, but since they havent a clue as to what they could do to actually prevent violence, they go for the nearest scapegoat, so when it comes time for re-relection they can claim that they are trying to prevent youth violence. it's the same BS that the death penalty is based on. Support the death penalty, and then you ca claim that you are hard on crime and that this somehow equates to safer streets, the fact that it does no such ting never even enters the equation.
Fool me once...shame on you, fool me twice...won't be fooled again (our president)
Not to start a big flame war or anything, but doesn't invading other countries kind of encourage aggressive behavior?
Nope. I was in elementary school during the Vietnam War. I recall seeing fragments of combat footage on the news. When friends and I played violent games we did not emulate or act out the news footage, we emulated TV and movies of the early 70s. Play was World War II themed, SWAT themed, etc. One friend's mom didn't allow toy guns, no problem his dad's old discarded golf clubs were fine stand-ins for rifles and shotguns. I don't find it hard to believe that games have an affect similar to TV and movies. Music videos too, they are kind of mini-movies.
So my friends and I engaged in violent themed play at early ages.
Later got into punk and metal.
Man, how did we wind boring hard working tax paying law abiding citizens when we were so conditioned to be satan worshiping homicidal maniacs?
Anyone who went to grade school and high school should remember that the ATHLETES were the violent ones, and the quiet, loner kids who played NES for hours every day at home were... Well, quiet. Not violent.
Random massacres and crazy people running wild has to be caused by computer games. One thing's certain, it has nothing to do with the widespread and easy availability of guns of all kinds.
...a great deal of people haven't STOPPED speaking up. Just because they've been unsuccessful at stopping the tide of American politics doesn't mean they've been sitting in their barcaloungers the whole time.
Rep. Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem) pointed out that HB 257 is the most narrowly defined legislation of these kinds of violent games bills. "I think it is worth a try," she said. "Otherwise we give up and say the court will always determine our values." Um...it's *YOU* who's trying to determine our values!
A. Life is tough for anyone.
B. "Anyone who says differently is selling something." - Westly (The Man in Black)
C. Anyone assuming that life is tougher for Mormons hasn't got a clue how life works. (Yes, they were "legally" hunted and killed in Missouri in the first half of the 19th century, but victims of atrocities like that generally recover more quickly and more often than the perpetrators.)
D. Probably the people that have the toughest (most painful) lives are those that truly believe a moral code, and live contrary to it.