Come the Revolution

GamesIndustry.biz has a piece looking at what game developers think will be required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube. From the article: "While this mutual exploitation between indies and Nintendo may grant the GameCube some stay of execution, the Kyoto giant's next home console will require a very different approach to marketing. Solid details about the Revolution remain sparse, yet Nintendo has stated it hopes to attract a different audience to the one being aggressively chased by Microsoft and Sony. This is the console that will support a back catalogue of twenty years' worth of Nintendo games, as well as new titles utilising the intriguing new controller."

Comments

Older is better

[From A Far Away Land]

I'd actually consider buying a Nintendo platform that supports Gameboy and NES games as well as the new stuff. Either that, or gives owners a license to run an official NES emulator on their PC. Donkey Kong trumps new stuff any day.

Re:Older is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Donkey Kong '94 maybe, but the original Donkey Kong is utter dreck. Until NES cartridge sizes reached 256k, games weren't worth playing (with a few exceptions, SMB, Zelda, and Metroid).

Re:Older is better

[keyne9]

You mean like the Gameboy Player addition for the GCN? Given the Revolution's aim to be able to emulate many (or most) of the older games for their older systems, I suspect you won't have much of a problem with your desire.

Re:Older is better

[CSMastermind]

From Nintendo:
"Decades of Games
Revolution will play all of your favorite Nintendo GameCube games, and deliver downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES)."
I would say that qualifies. Check it out at www.nintendo.com/revolution

Gamecube - premature death?

[r_jensen11]

As far as I know, the game cube is far from dead. In fact, my roommate and my neighbors have been playing Mario Kart Double Dash, Mario Tennis, Mario Party 4, and Super Smash Bros. until 3am a many of times....

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Fred Or Alive]

Where are you?

I'm in the UK, and the article is pretty accurate, the 'Cube has dissapeared from most retailer's shelves (partly pushed out by the PSP, and ironically, the DS), and it's pretty much relegated to small amounts of shelf space in specialist games shops. I'm sure people get lots of play out of their 'Cubes, but Nintendo will probably have trouble selling more games and consoles when they can't pursuade shops to actually sell them.

Nintendo fans shouldn't worry totally, the cash cows of the Game Boy and DS are doing far better.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[CastrTroy]

All the retailers still have it in Canada. You can pick one up for $100, with a game you actually want to play, and 2 controllers. That's very tempting for some people, even those who don't game very much.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[MindStalker]

Yea, I've been seriously considering picking one up latly, but the idea of buying one just to have it replaced by the revolution in a year sickens me... What to do what to do.. (a hundred is still a lot in my book)

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Manmademan]

you and your roomies are part of the problem. People who buy the cube tend to do so to pick up nintendo 1st party titles and ignore everything else, leading 3rd party developers to abandon the platform, or only give it token support. Right now there's a serious gap between the release of good software on the cube...5-6 months or more for "A" list titles. That's good if you want to play super smash brothers melee ad nauseum, but bad if you're craving something new.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[wickedj]

"As far as I know, the game cube is far from dead. In fact, my roommate and my neighbors have been playing Mario Kart Double Dash, Mario Tennis, Mario Party 4, and Super Smash Bros. until 3am a many of times...." And therein lies the problem. You are playing the same games over and over again. For the console to survive and grow, you need to purchase more games for the system. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo and they have great games. The fact is, sports titles and yearly releases saved the other systems from being last in the console arena because gamers constantly bought new versions of Madden or whatever. Nintendo puts out an awesome Mario game every few years. The same can be said for Zelda. The other issue is you are looking at first-party developed titles. Nintendo really needs to promote third-party development this time around. There were very few third party successes with the Game Cube. The only one that was really notable was Resident Evil 4. The other consoles are flooded with third-party titles. Sure most of them are dreck, but they still make money in the long run.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[tekkou]

I owned both the PS2 and the GameCube, and actually bought the typical 3rd party games (mostly EA games oddly enough) for the GameCube because the system had much better graphics. When the game producers stopped releasing multi-platform games on the Cube I just stopped buying that kind of game.

Basically I had the PS2 for the Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, and GTA franchises. The Cube is what I used for everything else.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Baki]

in germany and switzerland all retailers still have it, with about equals shelf space than xbox and ps2.
i have a ps2 myself but my next one shall be a nintendo revolution i think.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[CastrTroy]

Pick up a used one for $50 at EB. Nintendo builds them like rocks. They don't die like XBox and PS2

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Lobo42]

To be fair, the UK and Australia/New Zealand rank among the worst territories for the 'Cube, if I'm not mistaken.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Hitto]

Sorry, but gaming is a hobby that used to be not so expensive, but it now is. Every actor on the market is to blame.
There's one thing that I clamor for openly, and as a flashcart user : Nintendo needs to sell flash carts with a downloadable games system. Stick fifty games in the cart, no issue, put it in the GBA slot, and voilà. Nintendo's flashme system, with a nice, legal interface which would allow indies to develop tons of fun little games.

Hey, Ninty! We also code HOMEBREWS THAT KICK ASS, so stop treating us like thieves. We do try before we buy a bit, but come the fuck on. We have to GIVE OUR MONEY to people who aren't YOU. Think about it.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Darth Maul]

I just picked up that Chibi-Robo game. It's a lot of fun, and well-made. I would put this game in my top-five list of games for the system, and it was just released like a month ago!

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[chrismcdirty]

I've had two die in my house. But it could have been because they were played for at least 4 hours a day in a smoke-filled house. My best guess was the eye stopped reading the disc. IIRC, it was some disc read error on both of them. It's been about a year and half since it happened, though, so I don't remember all that well. But it was more than likely a user problem, and not a problem with the build.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[CastrTroy]

The smoke filled house part probably did it for you.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Corbu Mulak]

Well, my Gamecube got pretty trashed traveling back from South Korea, but they also broke two of my dad's guitars and who knows what else. The light no longer works, the rumble only works in the last two spots, and the reset button doesn't work. All were fine when I got it on Christmas in Korea (my parents bought it in America, I'm pretty sure, before we went over there), but when we traveled back to our home in America the cube was pretty fucked up.

Still plays games, though. So that's good.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Anamanaman]

I bought a used one and it stopped reading discs after a couple months. Cheap enough that I didnt care much and just bought another.

Bought a used xbox 2 years ago and it still works well.

I dont think anything about the cube makes it more or less reliable than other consoles.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Prophet of Nixon]

I dunno, my experience has been that Gamecubes and Xboxes don't break, and that PS2s, though they do break, are frequently trivial to repair. I'd rate them all about equal. I hate to say it but the only console that I've seen non-trivial hardware errors in for the past few years is the Dreamcast (particularly with audio), which is a shame since they're becoming hard to get. I have a whole spare one myself, should I ever need it.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[miyako]

I have a PS2 and a Gamecube, and there were a few multiplatform games that I got on the GC because the graphics are nicer, but for the most part I found myself picking up multiplatform titles for the PS2 because most games did not use the GC controller very well.
I think that the Revolution will suffer from this even more than the GC did. The GC controller wasn't bad, and I think was the most comfortable of the controllers for this generation if you were playing a game designed for it, but it was just different enough from the PS2 controller that a lot of games were not comfortable to play it with (The best two examples I can think of would be the Tony Hawk games and Soul Caliber II).

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[damiangerous]

People who buy the cube tend to do so to pick up nintendo 1st party titles and ignore everything else

That's because that's where Nintendo stands out. When I choose which platform to buy a game for I use basically two broad criteria. Cost and "experience" (platform fanboyism isn't one). If a game is cheaper for one of the platforms I'll get it for that one, unless it's significantly "less good" (such as no online). Cost being equal I'll then choose the game that gives me the best experience. This is subjective, of course, but I think in general the XBox gives the best overall experience. The graphics tend to be the best of the three and the online is undoubtedly best. Therefore, all else being equal I'll choose the XBox version, then the GC version (slightly better than the PS2 graphically and in load times), then the PS2 version. However, since hardly any games (are there any at all?) are GC/PS2 only I end up with the XBox version for the cross platforms, and the PS2 and GC versions for games exclusive to those platforms. (Of course, this is thrown off by games I got really cheap, but those tend to be PS2 versions). It ends up that the only reason I have Nintendo versions is because they're from when I only had a GC (it was my first current gen) or they're GC exclusives.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[CSMastermind]

I'm in the USA - western PA right by Pittsburgh. All the stores here carry about the same amount of gamecubes as they do Xboxes and slightly less PS2. At least that's where I live. I own a gamecube and so do most of my freinds. The local cardshop has Super Smash Bros. tournies and that sort of thing. Nintendo is doing just fine around here.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, when I read the summary, and it said: "GamesIndustry.biz has a piece looking at what game developers think will be required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube.", I thought, "What, you mean ensuring that it doesn't become the most profitable console of its generation?".

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[skreeech]

It's funny because I got the ps2 for all those and thirdparty and got the gc just for mario kart and zelda.

The only non first party game I own for gc would be the metal gear port.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Kesch]

Actually, my poor cube is limping right now. I've actually had to open it up and fiddle with the POT controlling the laser strength to get it to read discs, and it is still flaky sometimes. Still, I love the GC.

Re:Gamecube - premature death?

[Fortyseven]

That's what I did. And since the Revolution will play the Gamecube games, I don't feel like a chump for investing in games for it. I'll be playing those for a long time. ;)

Go where?

[Locdonan]

to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube.

You mean, make a profit from the start, build a good base of great games, and offer a wide range of stellar games? They make money, have a good base of people, and offer the best multiplayer on 1 system without falling short. Games are smooth are intriguing. I have no intention of buying a $400-500 system.

My money is going to Nintendo, espically for castlavania, Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Golf, Baseball, and all the party games. Rock on Nintendo.

Re:Go where?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree 100%. Can't we just mod the article "-1, Troll"?

Re:Go where?

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense, but there hasn't been a killer game on the GameCube for about a year now (since Resident Evil 4). I can admit this as a Nintendo fanboy. This is because Nintendo alienated 3rd party developers during this console generation.

That being said, there are a lot of good games for the Cube that I haven't played yet, and most are in the used/discount bins by now, so they're cheap (Metroid Prime 2, Eternal Darkness, SC2, Paper Mario, etc).

Hopefully Nintendo doesn't drive developers away for the last two years of the Revolution's lifespan.

Re:Go where?

[Fred Or Alive]

What for? For saying the Gamecube flopped in the UK (which it has), and that Nintendo may have trouble pursuading retailers to push the Revolution becuase of it?

The Gamecube may have great games, but it appears to UK gamer would much rather buy PlayStation 2 or Xbox stuff instead. People do note the Japanese like different games to the US, so it's obvious that the UK is going to have different tastes to the US, and that includes less of a love for Nintendo.

I should note things like Eye Toy and other PS2 party games (including quite a few from Sony themselves) seem to do reasonabley well in the UK, so the Revolution may have some hope in the "casual gamer" field. The DS is doing well as well, but AFAIK the PSP is doing better in the UK than elsewhere.

Re:Go where?

[tukkayoot]

"The way of the GameCube" likely refers to the plumetting number of consoles sold. The NES sold 60 million units. SNES sold 49 million. N64 sold 32 million. The GameCube has sold about 21 million. Not a good trend for Nintendo, regardless of how profitable they are.

If the Revolution sells fewer units than the GameCube, it's going to be hard for anybody, even Nintendo fanboys and Nintendo themselves to see that as anything but a failure. As the article explains, they need move beyond their niche appeal and break into the mainstream somehow if they don't want their home console business to sink into the abyss. If the rate of decline of sales in this generation doesn't improve from the last generation, the Revolution will barely sell more units than the Dreamcast.

I personally think Nintendo will recover in this generation, though. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. The 360 launch debacle and the PS3 delay certainly can't hurt. Nintendo is in a position to pull off a huge upset if things fall into place.

Re:Go where?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love Nintendo games. Their back catalog is far and away the best of any developer. Their games weren't just good, they had a timeless quality. They are a top quality developer all the way to this day too. Still, you gotta be realistic here.

Nintendo's real success has been in software, not hardware. In hardware they had a near monopoly 15 years ago and it has been in free fall decline. They've gone from first place by far to niche player in the market. The N64 and Gamecube both completely missed the market, and both survived on the Nintendo brand alone.

You say they are profitable, and that's great. I'd ask how could they not be? They have intellectual property that should let them mint their own money. Again, all from software or IP, while the hardware is what drags. Imagine the sales numbers if they sold Zelda, Pokemon and Mario games on the Playstation and xbox.

We'll see what happens with this Revolution console, but my very-early prediction is a disaster.

Re:Go where?

[killmenow]

I must admit: I am rooting for Nintendo nowadays too. I was never a huge fan of Nintendo (although I enjoyed the original Metroid and Mario Brothers games). But I've jumped on their bandwagon.

In fact, this past Christmas, I could've bought an Xbox 360 but instead I asked my wife for a Game Cube and Metroid Prime 2. I've been playing it since, am 90% through the game and I *love* it. And it only cost $120 (GC plus MP2) and came with another game. We have a few games for it that we all enjoy, bought Animal Crossing even though it's old now, and both my 8 yr old and 14 yr old love it. The GC is a great little console. It's the first console I've ever allowed on my primary TV. Our original PS2, PS1, Sega Genesis, etc. have all been relegated to the small TV in the den. But the GC gets front and center on the big TV in the great room and it shines there.

My gut tells me the Revolution will be a great console. I trust my gut.

Re:Go where?

[MaineCoon]

Those numbers, if correct, are somewhat interesting when you consider the competition each console was up against:

NES - practically no competition. 60 million units
SNES - competition was the Genesis, which did somewhat weakly. 49 million units, still not bad.
N64 - up against the PSX. 32 million units is still pretty strong sales considering what it was up against
GameCube - 21 million. Up against the PS2 and Xbox.

While using the 60 million as a baseline for future sales is bad metrics, it puts things into perspective when you consider the competition each iteration of Nintendo hardware was up against. The N64 sells half as many units as the NES, but unlike the NES has strong competition to go against. GameCube has 2 strong consoles to compete against, and sells 1/3 as many units.

Re:Go where?

[suspected]

>>You say they are profitable, and that's great. >>I'd ask how could they not be? Answer: see xbox and xbox360

Re:Go where?

[Darth]

The problem is that the market wasnt static during that time. The market grew dramatically. And while the market's size was increasing, Nintendo's userbase was shrinking. They not only failed grow their segment of the market, their installed base was eaten away by their competitors.

I'm not going to sound the death knell for Nintendo, but when your installed base decreases while your potential market increases, there's no way to make that look positive.

Re:Go where?

[inerte]

Not interesting, in fact it they show how Nintendo went from 1st to 3rd.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Nintendo fanboy. But they don't sell as well as Sony or MS. That's a fact... the competition is there, but the same is true for the competition too.

PS2 sold 100 million consoles worldwide, and it had competitors. Why is it interesting the Cube sales? They aren't, and they sucked. Yeah, yeah, profit and all that, but you shouldn't talk about market share this way. Can't fool the numbers :)

Re:Go where?

[Stregone]

Well, there's the fact that Nintendo is actualy making money. Sony and MS are dumping money out of their bottomless coffers in order to push their consoles on the public.

Re:Go where?

[hal2814]

The NES had practically no competition because they used illegal practices to keep players like the Sega Master System, Turbo Grafx 16, and the Atari 7800 from getting many third party titles. Nintendo had to give up those illegal practices and their marketshare has been slipping ever since. That is what I see when you show me those numbers.

Re:Go where?

[Daetrin]

Well, there's the fact that Nintendo is actualy making money. Sony and MS are dumping money out of their bottomless coffers in order to push their consoles on the public.

That's true of the XBox and XBox360, and may be true of the PS3 as well. However as far as i know the PS2 succeeded on its own merits (if one includes Sony's predatory marketing division as one of those merits) and not because of any subsidizing of the console itself.

I like Nintendo, i like their consoles and their games and i think anyone who doesn't want to play them because they're too "kiddie" has rocks for brains. However i don't think my sympathy for Nintendo should blind me to the truth. Yes they're making money, but their relative marketshare _has_ shrunk. If they had maintained the market share they had back in the 80s imagine how much _more_ money they would be making. You could just say that as long as they're making money that what the majority of gamers think doesn't matter, but i don't have faith that a continuously shrinking group of people who "get it" will be able to support them indefinitely.

Yes the average person seems to be a stupid sheep (IMHO =) but that doesn't mean that a company which should be trying to sell as many consoles and games as possible can just write them off. Nintendo needs to learn how to market to the segments of the market they don't currently appeal to. Reaching out to new segments is a good move, but i hope they don't sacrifice what remaining appeal they have to the hardcore self-appointed "real" gamers in the process.

Re:Go where?

[thesandtiger]

No way to make what look positive?

That despite lower unit volume they're making a nice profit? That they're making a profit while one of their so-called "superior" competitors is hemmoraging money? That they're dominating the hand-held market?

Yes, their console isn't numero-uno when it comes to marketshare - but what value is marketshare without profit? I ask that honestly - the goal of a business is to make money. If marketshare helps them do that, then great - but in the case of consoles, it seems like Nintendo is, in a very real fashion, doing much better than their rivals.

Re:Go where?

[hkmwbz]

What you are basically saying is: "They need to succeed, or they will fail."

No shit, Einstein ;)

Considering the success of the DS, the Revolution is likely to break out of the profitable niche Nintendo is currently operating in. Yes, a profitable niche. You don't need to be #1 to make money, as proven by Nintendo and others, such as Apple. But I believe that the Revolution, like the DS, will attract new players, expanding the market, and making Nintendo truckloads of money on the process.

Re:Go where?

[justchris]

That's a bit disingenious however. The market grew significantly between those two periods. Looking at marketshare, out of every household available, the 60 million NES units sold accounted for 80% of all households in the world (the world being the markets in which the NES was released). Now, the total sales for the PS2, GC & Xbox still only accounts for about 80% of all households in the world, probably less actually. The percentage of gaming households has not increased, and some studies show it has decreased. Unless the PS2 is in 80% of all households, the fact it sold more than the NES can be accounted for easily by the fact that we've gone from about 5 billion to over 6 billion people on this planet in the past 20 years, as well as opened up markets to gaming that were never tapped during the time of the NES. So while his numbers aren't necessarily the proper ones to be using, his conclusions are still almost certainly correct.

Agree

[w.p.richardson]

My kids love the gamecube, and I can lord it over them as a not so veiled threat.

It's alive and kicking at my house. I do not plan to replace it anytime soon. We get a game maybe 2x per year. The games are fun for everyone to play, same as the older nintendo games.

Re:Agree

[fak3r]

I hear ya, my 5 1/2 and 3 year olds love it; SSX Tricky/3/Tour, Mario Double Dash, Mario Party 7, Mario DDR, and most recently Super Mario Strikers - that's a game the whole fam (all 4 of us) can play together, and it's still challenging enough for me to take on my 5 1/2 year old one on one! It's a blast, viva la Gamecube!

Re:Agree

[FinestLittleSpace]

Same. My 6 (nearly 7) year old boy absolutely loves the GC

Re:Agree

[lowmagnet]

Does he remind you every day that he's "almost 7"? Remind him that he's "almost 30" when he turns 29 ;)

My $.02

[tekkou]

My opinion on this latest generation of video game systems is that MS and Sony may be trying to cram too much into a system. These things are supposed to play games first, everything else 2nd. Yes it's nice that I could use my PS2 as a DVD player along with playing games, but it wasn't a great DVD player, and when I had the money I bought one to take that function's place.

I'm very happy that Nintendo is willing to take a gamble and keep with their trend of making GAME systems. One only has to compare the DS with the PSP to find that a GAME system is what more people want. Yes there are people that like the PSP for all its media functionality, but should that be in a game system? Why not just buy a PDA for that? You'd have the ability to view a wider range of media in that case .

When I first heard about how Nintendo was planning on this new controller idea, having the back catalog of games, and keeping it just a game system I knew I wanted one. Nintendo has always been more focused on gameplay I feel. I did own a GameCube, and the Nintendo franchise game validated the purchase. I only wish I still had it for the upcoming Zelda game.

Personally I think that MS jumped the gun a bit with the 360. As has been mentioned countless times prior, it isn't much of an improvement over the previous XBox. I have a feeling that the PS3 might get pigeonholed into that same category (though I still will likely get one for Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, and other PS only series), but the Revolution is the one thing that I'm truly waiting for because it's the only one to promise doing something new and different.

Re:My $.02

[windex]

The problem with the PSP is not the people who like it for its media functionality, it's all the people like me who are stuck with Sony's poor game lineup and only using their $300 PSP to play media.

That should say a lot about the PSP to Sony, but they don't listen well. Instead we get more DRM enabling happiness and a web browser.

Re:My $.02

[Hawkxor]

Apple did a good job with this by first positioning their video iPod as strictly an old-school ipod mp3 player, which just happened to play video - so that consumers didn't feel like they were buying something and paying for features they wouldn't need or for an audio/video player that did neither well. Now that people have seen how well playing video on the machine works, they should be fine if they want to release a media device targeted mainly towards video. On the other hand, Sony made a big deal about their (proprietory) video playing capabilities in the PSP.

Re:My $.02

[Locke2005]

You misunderstand the Xbox 360. It isn't designed to be a game platform, it is designed to be a client for Microsoft Media Center that also plays games... sort of a stealth aproach to getting Microsoft into to livingroom so that MS controls your media experience. Likewise, the Cell processor in the PS3 is designed to be best at streaming audio and video, NOT for playing games. Both these boxes are designed for the coming "digital convergence" that will be happening, uh, "real soon now!" Oviously MS and Sony aren't targetting just the game market. As a side note, I used my PS2 much more often as a DVD player than as a game system.

Re:My $.02

[Anamanaman]

The 360 has media center functionality that works with the .01% of people who have working media center pcs.

Dude, its a game console. Designed for games, not a media center.

So far the games are pretty slick. Play Kameo for a half hour and you'll be hooked.

Re:My $.02

[JWW]

Both these boxes are designed for the coming "digital convergence" that will be happening, uh, "real soon now!"

Yeah, you may be right, but in that case they're competing with the Mac mini and the ipod. For digital convergance Apple is the one ahead of the game there.

Re:My $.02

[monopole]

The sad thing is that the DS (or even better the micro) equipped with a Play Yan cartridge beats out the PSP in terms of battery life, ruggedness and portability for video playback.

Re:My $.02

[mrchaotica]

Maybe that'll teach you to stop buying Sony's shit, which is a lesson I learned a long time ago.

Re:My $.02

[Locke2005]

Agreed. The new Mac Mini is also designed to play nicely as a set top box, although I beleive it requires an add-on converter for the video out.

Re:My $.02

[bigman2003]

Windows XP can serve up media to a 360. But the full Media Center requires Windows MCE.

Go to Best Buy/CompUSA/Etc. and try to buy a Windows computer that does NOT run MCE...

It is far more than the .01% you quote.

Re:My $.02

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you may be right, but in that case they're competing with the Mac mini and the ipod. For digital convergance Apple is the one ahead of the game there.

You must be kidding, right?.

Re:My $.02

[prionic6]

No converter needed, you can plug it right into the DVI-In of your digital TV ;)

Re:My $.02

[Troglodyt]

But it's not promising anything new, the controller will probably be too weird to develop for and will go the way of other weird console accessories. The games will be the same old Nintendo branded titles and the usual multi platform games.

Re:My $.02

[justchris]

According to all the major 3rd party developers, that's exactly not the case.

For instance, Capcom has already said that, because of the nature of the controller, they'd prefer to make a Revolution specific Resident Evil, rather than just porting ResEvil 5 over.

Midway has said much the same thing.

The Revolution promises something new because of the 3 consoles, it's the only one that can do something none of the other consoles can do, and that's detect movement in 3 dimensions. Anything the PS3 & 360 can do, the Rev can do, maybe not as well, but good enough to make an enjoyable experience.

Yes, dead as a platform

[xswl0931]

Just because you continue to play old games on it, doesn't mean it isn't dead as a platform. There isn't much of anything being developed for the Gamecube at this time. Mine's been sitting the closet for over a year now. I'll probably bring it out to play the next Zelda, but that's about it. Double Dash came out 11/03 Mario Tennis came out 11/04 Mario Party 4 came out 10/02 Super Smash Bros came out 12/01 Saying the Gamecube is still alive is like saying the Atari 2600 is alive if I was still playing Adventure on it

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[Anonymous Coward]

No way the next Zelda gets delivered to the Gamecube. I don't care what anyone says, it's getting pushed back as a Revolution title, precisely for the reason you described: Gamecube, as a platform, is dead.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[DumbWhiteGuy777]

You should try Super Mario Strikers. It's a Mario soccer game and really easy to pick up and really intense. Very possibly the most intense Mario-themed game ever, IMHO.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[TheBlackSwordsman]

Gee, I wasn't aware that there's been no good games released for the 'Cube since 2004. I guess that's because I'm currently enjoying Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, Chibi-Robo, Killer 7, and Resident Evil 4 - all released within the last half year or so, give or take a few months in either direction.

Is development for the Gamecube slowing down? No question - it's slowing down for EVERY current-gen system. Does the PS2 trump the 'Cube in software library size? Yes, it does. But I don't get people who act like there are only 4 or 5 good games for the Gamecube and they're all several years old. I consider myself a pretty avid gamer, but by no means "hardcore", and I own about 40-50 titles for the system. There's probably at least 30 other GC games that I'd like to play at some point, but I'll probably never get around to it. Why? Because I can't even get through all the GC games I currently own!

No offense, but people with attitudes like yours are why many great games for the 'Cube bomb in terms of sales - Battalion Wars comes to mind - too many Gamecube owners won't touch a game that doesn't prominently feature Mario, Samus or Link. I love those series as much as the next Nintendo fanboy, but c'mon. Every example you listed is a friggin' Mario title. Try playing a game that isn't part of a Nintendo franchise sometime. There are plenty of them out there.

It's one thing if you want to argue that there aren't enough good shooters or RPGs for the Gamecube, or something like that. I'll listen to that, as long as you don't bring that tired "there are no mature games" garbage. But your post makes it sound as if you've played every single quality Gamecube title, of which there are only 4 or 5, and you have no other use for the system. If that's really the case, I feel sorry for ya, cuz you've missed out on some killer games.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[Kuukai]

The Dreamcast still has new games coming out for it. You tellin' me it's not dead?

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[AK__64]

Incorrect, sorry. Check out 1up.com, the 10th game on their hottest games of the now list is for the GCN. Get deeper in the section and you'll find lots more preiews and release dates. Maybe not on the same scale as the PS2, but still not bad for an older system.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[Anonymous Coward]

What, so Reggie and Iwata-san saying that they absolutely guarantee it will be released for the Gamecube, and that there is absolutely no way it will be a Revolution exclusive isn't enough of a promise?

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[skreeech]

yes strikers is really fun I got it a few weeks ago. I haven't gotten to play it with a friend yet though.

I wouldn't really say the gamecube is dead as a competative console. It was never in the same world as ps2 and xbox to begin with. It's doing just as good as it has since launch.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform

[Rayaru]

It may be dead at this point, but not because it spontaneously died (as the summary implies).... it died because of anticipation for the next console!

The elephant in the room

[Thad Boyd]

Titles such as Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2 should ensure the Xbox and PlayStation 2 remain comfortable under consumers' TV sets for the rest of the year. At least, that's the case for the two leaders of the pack - but a browse around retail outlets will reveal little in the way of software or hardware support for Nintendo's GameCube.

Seems like Nintendo had some kind of game coming in the fall though...jeez, what was it called? The Legend of something or other.

Re:The elephant in the room

[Fred Or Alive]

And what's coming out in the next six months that'll keep what little shelf space the Gamecube has left in the UK? Apart from Zelda, the release schedule seems rather barren.

Re:The elephant in the room

[tukkayoot]

Seems like Nintendo had some kind of game coming in the fall though...jeez, what was it called? The Legend of something or other.

That was my initial thought as well, but guess what else is scheduled for a fall release? That's right, the Nintendo Revolution. So the Twilight Princess isn't exactly going to be the game that is going to hold us over until the release of the Revolution. If anything it may be the first game we play on the Revolution. It's the GameCube's swan song, or the Revolution's fanfare ... probably not the GameCube's savior or life support mechanism.

Re:The elephant in the room

[FloodSpectre]

"Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2"..

Hm, generic shooter whose only redeeming quality would be graphics, and two sports sequels. So impressed am I, watch me do a jig !

Re:The elephant in the room

[wheany]

Well, the Gamecube doesn't even have those.

Re:The elephant in the room

[Guppy06]

Faulty logic in the article, too:

Titles such as Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2 should ensure the Xbox and PlayStation 2 remain comfortable under consumers' TV sets for the rest of the year.

No, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2 will only last you 6-8 months. In order to keep those PS2s and Xboxes humming, you need to release TOCA Race Driver 4 and FIFA Street 3 before next Christmas.

Re:The elephant in the room

[Guppy06]

"Oh noes, there aren't any GameCubes for sale in a market that rejected even the NES! Netcraft confirms!"

Aside from the UK being the boondocks of the console game market, Brits haven't been very keen on buying Nintendo (ever). Why should they follow Microsoft's example in Japan when there are plenty of people in other markets more than happy to buy Nintendo hardware and software?

Re:The elephant in the room

[atomicstrawberry]

"Titles such as Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2 should ensure the Xbox and PlayStation 2 remain comfortable under consumers' TV sets for the rest of the year."

And here I thought that PS2 gamers would be playing Kingdom Hearts II and Final Fantasy XII...

Re:The elephant in the room

[FloodSpectre]

I think that's more a merit than a flaw.

Re:The elephant in the room

[wheany]

Yes, video game consoles are so much better when there are no distracting games for them.

The Revolution will be great

[jshackles]

The one feature of the Revolution I'm looking forward to is the back catalog / download ability that (if done correctly) should be like xbox live arcade on crack.

Yes, my xbox can play every NES, SNES, Gameboy, and N64 game. I hate that the only options I have to play a lot of these games is to buy the system / games used on eBay which in no way rewards the original developers.

Plus it would be cool if they add online functionality to games. Anyone up for an online game of Goldeneye?

Re:The Revolution will be great

[pluke]

I'm just looking forward to a proper emulation of the N64, the xbox versions have a long way to go yet for many games i love - eg blast corps

Re:The Revolution will be great

[I(rispee_I(reme]

You have been befriended due to you sig.
Btw, it is misquoted. Due to slashdot's truncation, I presume?

The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at

[loqi]

Although I freely admit I'm an avid Nintendo fanboy, I must say I'm excited to see what games will be doing with the Cell processor on the PS3 a few years from now. That thing really does fly if you've got a dedicated enough (read: well-paid and not too rushed) development team. AFAIK, games on any platform still have yet to incorporate large-scale AI, the kind that would make vaguely realistic simulations of a downtown environment possible (no, GTA: Geographical Location still doesn't come close).

That said, the Revolution is still the only "sure thing" next-gen system, in my book. I have a gaming-capable PC, so consoles need to offer something more/different.

Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at

[Cadallin]

It flies at churning through specially tuned, non-interactive demos. However, the Cell is a dog at GENERAL computing tasks (and it's DSPs don't have sufficient precision for it to be good at scientific tasks) It's running a stripped down POWER chip that's the equivalent of a 604e with a longer pipeline, it's overclocked 1995 technology. Nobody has yet to come up with a way to turn standard game code into 9-way SMP DSP code, and I'll wager that nobody will, given other limitations of the way the DSPs can access memory external to their own (very small) cache.

The cell is another Graphics Synth, a heavily hyped custom chip, that when it comes right down to it, can't even compete with the more standard commodity hardware it's supposed to "blow away." The X-box 360, with its three overclocked 604e's will clearly outperform the Cell in every real world application.

Here's to hoping the Revolution uses a G5 based chip and not one or two PPE's. A single G5 running at half the clock speed would stomp all the other consoles.

Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at

[loqi]

However, the Cell is a dog at GENERAL computing tasks

Gee, good thing it's not a desktop CPU.

Nobody has yet to come up with a way to turn standard game code into 9-way SMP DSP code.

A) There's been no incentive to make "standard game code" run on an architecture like the Cell... because no previous consoles utilized such architectures.
B) I'm not particularly even talking about "standard game code". I really don't care if FIFA '07 or CS: Binary or whatever runs well on the Cell. I'm excited by the possibilities opened up by the sheer number-crunching power available. If a single game puts it to good use and does something that was otherwise impossible, I'll be happy... because I could have played the rest of those games on my PC, running "commodity hardware".

The X-box 360, with its three overclocked 604e's will clearly outperform the Cell in every real world application.

"Real world application"?! We're not talking about the Cell running Word, it was always marketed as a special-purpose chip. Theoretical performance is actually a factor here.

Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at

[Cadallin]

So what exactly do you want to do on a PS3? Zoom infinitely on dual 1080P displays on dynamically calculated Mandelbrot sets? Because that's about all the Cell can do better than anything else.

When I said "Real World Applications" I meant Games. What are you expecting? That they next generation of Hardware is going facilitate some software revolution? That the games of 12-36 months from now are going to magically transform into programs that don't follow a standard game loop of

while(GameIsRunnning)

{

GetUserInput()

DoAI()

UpdateWorldState()

PlaySound()

PlayMusic()

DrawScreen()

}

Seriously, if you're wanting innovative Gameplay I think you're looking in the wrong place if you're expecting it to come overly complex hardware. All this hype about "the Cell" is exactly the bullshit we got fed about the PS2's GraphicSynth. The GS didn't give us profound revolutionary gameplay on the PS2, and the Cell won't give us profound revolutionary gameplay on the PS3. The Cell is a special purpose solution, looking desperatly for a problem.

If you're talking about stuff like Spore, that WILL be available on the PC.

Money Talks.

[ucaledek]

Let's not forget in the midst of all this next-gen marketing: Not everyone has HD. I don't care how much saturation of the market people expect hi-def to get in the next 5 years. Plenty of people still can't use this feature that Sony and Microsoft have as an "edge" over Nintendo. It's been said before, but if you're not a person salivating over the latest HDTV's to come out, you're probably not going to want drop $1000 for a new console and enough games to make it worthwile (and only 10 games or so for Xbox360, maybe half that with these rumors about PS3). I know that of all the consoles, Revolution is the only one reasonably in my price range (grad student!). Even if in this generation I buy an HD set, I still won't buy either of the other two until then, when presumably the prices will have already dropped alot (meaning even worse losses for Sony and Microsoft). And my brother got a PS2 before I bought a DVD player. I waited 8 months or so, and for half the price of the PS2, I got a DVD player that didn't suck like the PS2. Why shouldn't I expect the same this time around? However Blu-ray/HDDVD falls, there will have to be players not half-assedly attached to a game console. And even though Nintendo seems stuck in the same pattern as the other two when it comes to a glut of sequels, there is still plenty of innovation in their first party franchises. Zelda has always differed greatly between games both in style and gameplay. Hell, me and my roommate still play,frequently, MarioKart 64 over the Xbox games he has.

Re:Money Talks.

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"meaning even worse losses for Sony and Microsoft"

The cost to manufacture consoles goes down more rapidly than the retail price cuts you will see.

Re:Money Talks.

[Tadrith]

I agree that HD shouldn't be considered a huge selling point, because a huge number of perfectly ordinary TV sets are out there. However, I think it would be a huge mistake to ignore it, as well. The same people that buy HDTVs tend to also have a great deal of disposable income as well, and are probably more likely to go out and buy the system.

There are some HDTVs that can display a low resolution picture and it looks just fine, but there are also some HDTVs (LCD) that are at a set resolution. Have you ever seen the GameCube or PS2 in non-progressive scan mode on a TV like that? It looks really awful. Not supporting HD at all means possibly driving some of these people away, and that's not a good thing either.

They don't even have to push it. Just make it so their games can run in higher resolution modes so that the TV doesn't have to make up for it. Computer games have seemingly done this for ages, supporting far more resolutions than the console has to.

Re:Money Talks.

[richman555]

What everyone is forgetting about is that without HD, Nintendo does not need to develop games that run at higher resolutions (# of pixels). This way games can be developed with "next-gen" level graphics on hardware that is less powerful (and cheaper). Just run a pc game at 640x480 and you can always crank up more detail.

go way of the gamecube?

[Frag-A-Muffin]

... required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube ...

ummm what would that be? out selling the xbox 360? :) In japan anyways :)

I'm not even joking or pulling numbers out of my arse or anything, just look here and see for yourself. The GameCube is outselling the xbox360 in Japan.

Re:go way of the gamecube?

[Fred Or Alive]

Seeing as this article is talking about the UK, I wonder if the Xbox 360 is outselling the Gamecube here. :-)

Although the Gamecube hasn't done as badly as the Xbox did in Japan, it kinda ran out of steam a couple of years ago, and has been in a decline ever since.

Re:go way of the gamecube?

[Anamanaman]

Nintendo has a pretty strong brand in Japan. I'm not sure thats a great example of it beating out its competition on merits alone.

Re:go way of the gamecube?

[LordKronos]

But at the same time, the XBOX 360 is about 4 months old, whereas the GameCube is 4 (or is it 5) YEARS old.

Re:go way of the gamecube?

[Anamanaman]

A valid comparison would be gamecube launch vs xbox 360s

This article (written by a pronintendo blog) indicates that early gamecube sales werent that great.
http://www.gamecubicle.com/specials-gamecube_sales _north_america_2001.htm

As compared to Xbox360 in USA where at bestbuy, people lined up at 5pm saturday for a sunday morning shipment...

Re:go way of the gamecube?

[LordKronos]

Of course they lined up. There were only a handful of systems being shipped to each store and no hope of more anytime in the near future.

When my favorite band's CD comes out, I'm generally not worried about it selling out, so I just go pick it up at my convenience. When my favorite band comes around in concert, there are limited tickets, so I generally line up for it (well...except that ticketbastard has pretty much killed that option off, with their presale BS and random line shuffling BS, but now I'm off topic...the point is, whenever possible, that's what I do).

So is...

[FluffyWithTeeth]

Dude, dead ferrets are outselling the Xbox in Japan. That's not even live ferrets! Well, the ferret trade is reasonably steady, actually. But nonetheless...

I had a point somewhere...

Well.. uh.. the GPX2 is probably outselling the Xbox as well..

Nintedo Dojo

[Brothernone]

You know what.. i'd like to see any other platform IN HISTORY have the love and memmories of as many gamers as Nintendo. They were there from the start, they continued to kick ass, and here is is 2k6 and they're still whompin tall and proud. Is there a person on the planet that doesn't remember playing a zelda game for the first time... i can even tell you who the freinds were that helped me figure it out as we all went through it. All this talk of Nintendo being in trouble is sad. I'll sum it up with a challange. If there is any system that thinks it's got a bigger fan base than Nintendo.. Let them show up to the dojo and we'll fight this thing out 8 bit style.

Re:Nintedo Dojo

[radish]

Is there a person on the planet that doesn't remember playing a zelda game for the first time

I'm 30 years old, I've been gaming for over 20 of those years, I own every current (xbox360) and previous generation console (NGC, PS2, Xbox) and I've never played a Zelda game. Ever. I'm sure they're great, and lots of people seem to love them, which is nice, but they just don't appeal to me. When I was younger I didn't have a NES or SNES - in fact, Nintendo seemed to have very little penetration in my locale - everyone I knew had Sega Master System, then MegaDrive and then jumped ship to PSX/PS2. Until recently I was more of a computer gamer anyway - through the 8-bits then Atari and finally PC.

The point of all this? Don't over generalise. Your experiences are very unlikely to be shared by even a small percentage of the overall population.

Re:Nintedo Dojo

[suspected]

I pity you so much. Poor child, you don't even know what a quality game is.

>>The point of all this? Don't over generalise. Your experiences are very unlikely to be shared by even a small percentage of the overall population.

Sale figures back up his assumption that those who have played games during the early 90s have most likely played Zelda. Sorry, but you are in the minority.

Re:Nintedo Dojo

[Blakey Rat]

There's also more than a little positive feedback happening, as Slashdot is probably the most pro-Nintendo gaming forums on the entire internet, unless Nintendo.com happens to have forums.

For the record, the only Zelda game I could get into was Zelda II. Zelda I, and maybe I'm a total wuss, didn't ramp up the difficulty smoothly... it seemed like I was doing pretty good then I get to a part and bam, dead, bam, dead. (Of course the end castle in Zelda II is about the hardest thing EVER, but other than that it was good.)

Re:Nintedo Dojo

[BenjyD]

From the fact that he refers to the Sega Megadrive, I would guess the GP is in the UK. Over here, the big player during the 8/16bit console period was Sega, not Nintendo. The only Nintendo consoles I ever saw as a kid were a Japanese friend's NES and Gameboys. Personally, I hadn't even heard of Zelda until 1998 or so.

Nostalgia alert

[Manmademan]

Gaming is just as expensive now as it's ever been. The atari 2600 launched at $3-400 in the seventies. SNES carts like FFIII, Chrono Trigger, and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED) made their debut at 74.99 and STAYED there. The concept of "greatest hits" titles didn't show up until the psx era...the $19.99 game is a VERY new thing, relatively speaking.

In regards to your "flash cart" idea..it's not bad but it's already being done one better. Xbox live arcade has good classic and independent games available for only a couple of bucks. You don't even need the hard drive, you can use the memory card. Nintendo is making their classic library available to download to the built in flash RAM on the Revolution. (prices haven't been announced but come on now, we're talking 15 year old ROM images here.)

combine this with a booming used games market and you have nothing to complain about. There's a good case to be made that 2006 is a cheapass gamer's wet dream.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Anamanaman]

I'm really looking forward to downloading old nes/snes games on the revolution but I have a suspicion they'll be charging 10-15 bucks each. It would be crazy given how easy it is to download an emulator and roms, but don't put it past them.

I'm really hoping for 99 cent game downloads, or maybe some kind of all you can eat monthly thing.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[SetupWeasel]

Before they abandoned it, NES games were selling for the E-Reader for about $3 each. I have to believe that it will be less than that.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Psx29]

SNES carts like FFIII, Chrono Trigger, and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED) made their debut at 74.99 and STAYED there....

Well this was due to the fact that carts cost a shitload to make whereas CDs are dirt cheap.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[analog_line]

I agree, I only bought a single new game this year, whough "new" is stretching the point when that "new" game is the Mega Man X Collection. I've picked up tons of used games though. Cheap, and good. That's the way I like 'em.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Stregone]

They've said it would be very cheap or free. And I think they also said they wanted to offer everything in one package.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[displague]

Not true!

The 19.99 greatest hits concept is not new.. I used to buy 2nd tier Atari 2600 games for $19.99. The better games went for $29-39. My how times have changed...

Re:Nostalgia alert

[StudlyDego73]

...and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED)...

I must disagree with you my friend. I loved the 7th Saga. Maybe it's blurred nostalgia swaying my opinion, but I loved it. The fact that you could play the different characters was great(although admittedly the story changed little). Also the fact who you were swayed who would you join you, and if you ditched someone for someone else it hurt your chances of getting them back. Again, it's been awhile, but back in the day I loved it!

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Taboam]

And the PC also had this before playstation.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[martian265]

The Atari 2600 launched with a MSRP of $199 in 1977 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600#Launch_and _runaway_success. My family picked one up for just $150 a week after the launch. You should really check your facts a bit. While $200 in the late 70s is probably pretty close to comparable to $400 now, you really shouldn't spout off utter trash.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Manmademan]

Actually I WAS attempting to adjust my numbers for inflation, but I was a bit off. If you're going to nitpick, $199 in 1977 is actually $645.75 in 2005.

since I haven't seen a $645 console around lately, I believe my point is still valid. Gaming is still cheaper now than it was in 1977.

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Impotent_Emperor]

I played a ROM of it and I have to ask... just how are you supposed to get others to join your party? No one ever seemed to want to journey with me...

Re:Nostalgia alert

[StudlyDego73]

Well, as far as I can remember(it's been a few years since I busted it or the SNES out), you just talk to them in various towns. Gotta be careful though because sometimes when you talk to someone, if they're not happy with you, they'll attack. But typically they'll offer to join you. The demon(Lejes?) seems to have the toughest time finding someone to ally with, while in my opinion the lady elf mage has the easiest. Of course, I could be making that all up from a foggy memory, but I think you just have to talk to them(I think you get your first ally in like the 3rd town maybe?).

Re:Nostalgia alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but to us it was cheaper, because our parents often picked up the tab...

Marketing the Revolution

[lpangelrob]

You know, that was a pretty good article. We could use more of those every day. Something that doesn't give the same old "The Revolution will rule!" or "OMG the controller!" takes.

That said, I can kind of see the marketing problems that Nintendo will have to overcome, but I don't think it'll be that bad. One TV, one Revolution hooked up to the Internet, one or two controllers. Demo three launch games that make the most use of the fact that the controller is the way it is (I dunno, Pilotwings, Zelda and Super Duper Duck Hunt come to mind) and demo 10 downloadable games from past generations. Then stick a sign next to it saying you can play all 2,000 Nintendo games... ever.

Then make it look pretty. Can't be that hard, but you are relying on the open-mindedness of the consumer to this whole concept. Alternatively, open up Nintendo Stores, a la the Apple Store concept of three (or so) years ago... (keeping in mind that Sony has already done it, to less effect)

Re:Marketing the Revolution

[aywwts4]

You mean this? http://www.nintendoworldstore.com/

My take on it

[danpsmith]

What's funny is I bought an N64 years ago, and I was pretty thoroughly disatisfied with the quality of the games for my age group. At the time I guess I was really into violent games and what have you. I loved Goldeneye and Zelda and Mario 64 but the rest just seemed too kiddish for me. I also didn't like how staying with cartridges seemed to chase out some third parties.

Now I'm a bit older, and as I play most new games I'm starting to realize they are striving for graphics over gameplay, and that the control design isn't even on their mind anymore. A FPS controlled with both thumbs at the same time isn't my idea of fun or interesting design. Consoles have come to be FPS machines as much as computers, except with mouselook it's easier to control. And the day I buy a mouse and keyboard for a console game is the day I stop playing console games.

Nintendo, doesn't seem to be focused on gearing things to adults. Which, at times can make you feel like a stupid man playing a kid's game. However, at least they try to innovate. Sony was more than happy to have everyone controlling 3d games using a d-pad until the N64 came out. Some of the best strategies for controlling 3d on a console were developed by Nintendo.

And now, I find myself looking at a market gone haywire. I skipped the xbox, PS2, and gamecube generation of consoles because I felt I had been burned so badly on having to buy both N64 and playstation to get my fix. And now, the price of consoles has gone up to an exorbant amount and every console maker seems intent on making a living room computer instead of a gaming system that would be fun to play with friends. But I already have a computer. I don't want to spend 500 bucks on something that plays FPS already played better on my computer. I want a console that will be fun, innovative, with games that look and feel different from the last 5 years of gaming. In short, I want a change from this MS/Sony norm, I want revolution.

While the other console makers are busy putting in every last doodad, into what will still simply be a game console to the public, and charging 5000 bucks for it. Nintendo slides in with a unique design, promises innovation and a developer platform for 1000, console at 150, you have to love that.

After all these years I'm thinking of doing what I thought I would never do again. I'm thinking of going back to the land from which classic console games came...Go revolution!

Re:My take on it

[ProppaT]

The problem with the N64 wasn't lack of focus on adult titles, it was lack of support in general. The cartridge format wasn't embraced by the development community and, although the N64 was the easier console to code for of it's generation, it was the most expensive to publish for and had relatively low revenue because the console wasn't supported because the format wasn't embraced, violent circle, etc. etc.

The Gamecube, IMO, largely fixed this problem. There were kid games, there were adult games, and there were fun games for gamers of all ages. I think there's a general misunderstanding that games that aren't innately designed specifically for an adult audience are automatically designated as kids games. People see black and white but no grey.

The Rev will probably continue this and focus primarily on games that all can enjoy that aren't realistic or violent. As far as I'm concerned that's a.o.k....if I want super realism, I'll walk outside...and extreme violence has never made a game anymore enjoyable for me.

Go Rev!

Re:My take on it

[G-funk]

Nintendo is interested in selling games to adults. And kids. And girls.

The only people who are worried about only playing "mature adult games" are 17 year old boys. Now the 17 year old boy market isn't going to disappear, as there'll always be more of them. But they're all going to grow up, and some of them are even going to get married and have kids. Then they'll be shopping for games one day at the age of 25, and realise "Madden 2008" and "Super dethkill 7" are kinda... boring. And they'll pick up a Revolution. Nintendo will make a profit on every one sold, Joe six-pack will get games he can play with his family, and he'll have an extra $200 to spend on beer / his kids / buying his missus the $50 present once a year on valentine's day for a little play.

Sony and Microsoft will continue to "have the most successful consoles", and be super-1337, and losing money hand-over-fist. Who cares?

I'll be at home playing Zelda.

Re:My take on it

[grumbel]

### Nintendo is interested in selling games to adults. And kids. And girls.

Well, they might be interested in doing so, but they are not doing it very good. The PS2 had Shadow of the Colossus, Katamari, EyeToy, Singstar and a bunch of other innovative and original stuff. XBox has had Live. Nintendo on the other side had pretty much nothing groundbreaking for the Gamecube. The NintendoDS looks luckily a bit different (even so, as with the GBA, to many remakes/sequels and the online stuff is still pretty minimal) and hopefully Revolution will continue there and improve from that. But for the current generation of consoles the Gamecube just hasn't dilivered anything interesting. As I see it Nintendo is probally the one talking the most about innovation, but the real innovations are actually happening elsewhere.

Re:My take on it

[Rayonic]

and realise "Madden 2008" and "Super dethkill 7" are kinda... boring

The Madden series is generally a solid buy if you're a big football fan. If you play it a lot, it's worth spending $50 yearly to get roster updates and whatever other incremental improvements.

And Super Dethkill 7 was a good evolution of the series, which further refined the art of online Dethkilling.

Re:My take on it

[JohnDeckard]

I completely agree. I stopped buying consoles after the Genesis days when I started getting better and more involved strategy games on the PC. Since then, I've never had a reason to go back.

The Revolution is the first console game I've seriously considered in years. I'm in my mid-30's and I don't have the time to spend 2 or 3 hours a day on the niggling nuances of games like Civilization, the been-there-done-that RPG, hack-and-slash leveling up, or the redundant chaos of multiplayer FPS. I love playing those games, but I've got a life and I want to hang out with people and be able to play a fun, challenging game that anybody can pick up- not just my gamer friends.

When I was younger, all I could dream about was better and better graphics and a realistic, movie-like feel. Now, I just want something that's fun and different. There isn't ANYTHING I'm seeing or hearing about the XBOX 360 or PSX3 to pique my interest.

Those systems are good for high school kids or college-age types where they're in the dorm and want to play some Madden with some friends down the hall, but that just ain't happening when you start getting on with your life. I've got friends who would be lost if you handed them a Playstation controller and that's probably the biggest reason that the Revolution has got me paying attention.

As a final note: I don't see why the hell it's so important to sell more than anyone else- as if that means something about being better. Leave the stats for the suits and Hollywood's marketing department. Quoting me sales figures is the quickest way of telling me that you need to start thinking for yourself and stop listening to the hype.

Re:My take on it

[justchris]

Yes, I agree. The reason the GC has sold less than it's competitors is because there was really nothing new on it. Nintendo has always been a hotbed of innovation, with the NES, Gameboy, SNES, n64, GBA & now the DS. The GC stands out as being more an evolution of what was already there than an innovation, and it's sold less than any console they've ever released.

Nintendo has noticed this and commented on it on several occasions (I'm speaking specifically of Satoru Iwata here), so you can bet that the Revolution will be a significant improvement on the GC in terms of innovative gameplay.

Ignore the Games and focus on Features

[WillAffleckUW]

Because, as we all know, having really cool games that are fun to play is less important than having 200 versions of football games which simulate raindrops spattering off the helmets of the football players and audio surround-sound of their breathing.

After all, it's always true that following the true path:

1. make FPS or Sport Game with little or no story line
2. put it on a console that you lose money on
3. expect people to buy lots of games, like say Final Fantasy I to XII.
4. Profit! ... now if I could only find the sarcasm key on my keyboard ...

Third party devs...

[nickyj]

Yeah I'll admit that out of my 21 games only 7 are available on other platforms. Not all were dev-ed by N, but some were only for the GC and dev-ed by others. The reason? The other games suck. I don't even play them anymore. Here is the list of games I have and I'm sure you can guess which ones sucked:

Pikmin
Pikmin 2
Mario Golf
Mario Party 4
Metroid Prime
Super smash bros. melee
Eternal Darkness
Luigi's Mansion
Starfox Adventures
Sonic 2 (the shittiest game here)
F-Zero GX
NHL Hitz 2002
Prince of Persia
Extreme G3 Racing
Tetris Worlds
Star Wars Rogue Leader
Super Mario Sunshine (love this)
Super Monkey Ball 2
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
DJ Vandetta
Madden 2002

Competition

[Anonymous Coward]

But Sony managed to sell 100 million Playstations and 100 million playstation 2s in the same competitive environment.

if 60 million is the baseline, and nintendo splits the 60 million with sony and microsoft,then your arguemnt would make sense, that it loses consoles when there's more competition., but that's not true.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest

[suspected]

You reading comprehension is disturbed by a fog of bias.

Great advertising!

[xwizbt]

But this is fantastic! Surely?

You're telling me the odd place is selling a Nintendo console designed to rival the PS2 is now available for about thirty-five quid, and games are changing hands for ridiculously cheap quantities?

The article mentions Game, along with HMV and other major retailers. Woolworths? When was the last time I stepped into one of these?

Let's put it together - cheap consoles, second hand. Cheap games, second hand. Sounds fun to me. I'm on the lookout.

Re:Great advertising!

[BenjyD]

My local John Lewis had several *new* Gamecubes bundled with some Pokemon game for £39. The only annoying thing is that many of the classic Gamecube games are still pretty expensive even second hand: the cheapest I could get Tales of Symphonia was £30, Pikmin 2 is still £27+.

Re:Great advertising!

[Colourspace]

Do yourself a favour and get RE4 if you do. The only game I have put in over 30 hours on in a long time (and I play a lot of games on a lot of systems) . It's just awesome.

Please give me a list

[aliquis]

Ok, I know about mario kart, smash brothers and mario party. But what more good games are there? Give a list.

Metroid Prime I and II
Zelda windwaker
Prince of persia: The two thrones
Worms 3D
Super Mario Strikers ... ?

Re:Please give me a list

[Corbu Mulak]

Eternal Darkness
Resident Evil 1 Remake
Resident Evil 0
Resident Evil 4
Ports of RE 2, 3, and Code: Veronica if you haven't played them yet
Chibi-Robo
Animal Crossing
Rogue Leader (Not great, especially when compared to X-Wing and TIE Fighter, but pretty good nontheless)
Killer 7
Fire Emblem


I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are a few more.

Re:Please give me a list

[BenjyD]

F-Zero GX
Pikmin 1+2
Mario Sunshine
Paper Mario

How does the Gamecube misses?

[aliquis]

Ok, the N64 I can understand since it didn't used CD-roms and where more expensive to release games for and therefor they lost third party titles. But the Gamecube? What is really wrong with it? It's better than the PS2 for a cheaper price, the controller feels good. What is wrong? Lack of DVD-player?

Re:How does the Gamecube misses?

[mario64]

I don't know anyone who uses their PSn to play DVD's, but do know a lot of people who bought them rather than Nintendo consoles.

The reason :- easy to chip and copy games easily available. They will buy a few real games and all the rest of their collections are copies.

Re:How does the Gamecube misses?

[aliquis]

Yeah, and I think that is why Xbox succed at all. Who in there right minds whould have bought the Xbox if it wasn't because of the mod-chips?

But nowadays the Gamecube are chipable aswell. But I guess the games are harder to come buy than for the Xbox and even PS2.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect you is wrong.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the joke

Game Boy Player and Revolution Live Arcade

[tepples]

You mean like the Gameboy Player addition for the GCN?

Yeah, but you'll probably still have to leave your GameCube hooked up, as the Revolution isn't expected to have the GameCube High Speed Port through which the Game Boy Player sends input, video, and audio data. In addition, a lot of Game Boy titles don't work on the Game Boy Player; most notably, these include 8-bit games that use an external keyboard, 8-bit games that use the early 4-player adapter, those that use a tilt sensor, sun sensor in the Game Pak, and a few titles that rely on FMV. Details in Game Boy Player@E2.

Given the Revolution's aim to be able to emulate many (or most) of the older games for their older systems, I suspect you won't have much of a problem with your desire.

For one thing, only NES, Super NES, and N64 were announced, not Nintendo arcade systems nor handheld systems, and even among those, only games published by Nintendo were announced, as Nintendo may be having trouble getting other publishers signed on to re-release their games on Revolution Live Arcade. And will I be able to play homebrew?

Re:Game Boy Player and Revolution Live Arcade

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that's like a total of 4 games, 1 of which is completely useless anyway (the pda one, being that you in all likely hood will not be using the PDA attached to a tv, since well it's not freaking portable.

Nobody was expecting tilt and tumble and boktai to work on a gamecube either. There's slight logistical problems. In fact, for all I know, the do work, but it's just a little hard to tilt your effing gamecube whenever you want to tilt kirby.

And that everything 2 article makes a specific point of saying the Gamecube has the gameboy multiplayer adapter, and does not mention incompatibility with the 4 player adapter, so stop freaking trying to justify stealing soon to be in production games.

Re:Game Boy Player and Revolution Live Arcade

[tepples]

Wow, that's like a total of 4 games

There are a lot more than four FMV based titles on the GBA, which intentionally freeze on the Game Boy Player because the publisher doesn't want the user videotaping the FMVs.

Nobody was expecting tilt and tumble and boktai to work on a gamecube either.

Some were expecting Nintendo to emulate the tilt sensor in Kirby Tilt n Tumble and Koro Koro Puzzle Happy Panech! with the C-stick, or with the tilt sensor in a second copy of Koro Koro Puzzle Happy Panech! in a Game Boy Advance connected to the GameCube through the GameCube Game Boy Advance Cable.

And that everything 2 article makes a specific point of saying the Gamecube has the gameboy multiplayer adapter

It works with the Game Boy Advance multiplayer cable and the Game Boy Pocket/Color 2-player cable, but not the original Game Boy 4-player adapter because the plug's shape was changed between the Game Boy and the Game Boy Pocket. I seem to remember at least F-1 Race and Faceball 2000 using this.

so stop freaking trying to justify stealing soon to be in production games.

Where did I say steal?

Get a used console

[RudyValencia]

I agree - used consoles are seriously one of the best (and cheapest) ways to get the latest in gaming - most of the time you'll get a slightly used, working PS2 / Cube / XBox but only if you know where to shop.

Let's break that down...

[loqi]

GetUserInput()
Practically a no-op, in CPU terms.
DoAI()
Parallelism shines here for large-scale AI (i.e., many actors).
UpdateWorldState()
With AI out of the equation, this is essentially game logic and physics. Physics calculations are particularly well-suited for offloading to an SPU (or three). I expect the actual utilization here to be quite high, considering the emergence of specialized game physics libraries. Game logic is rarely CPU-intensive enough to warrant mention.
PlaySound()
PlayMusic()
Again, not a lot of CPU relevance here.
DrawScreen()
The GPU is separate, so the bulk of the operations can (fingers crossed) be performed here. Even the stuff that can't (some dynamically-generated graphics content) can be offloaded to an SPU.

I'm looking for more than innovative gameplay here. Indy games provide plenty of that (Gish for example). What I'm looking for is an innovative gameplay experience, the like of which has been restricted by hardware limitations as of yet. I don't really expect it to happen with the next generation of consoles, but new hardware has usually been the key to these kinds of leaps (like it or not, Quake was a staggeringly different experience than its predecessors).

At the very least, the Cell should provide enough CPU horsepower for the kinds of games we're used to already (which, let's face it, made up the bulk of the offerings for the last generation of consoles as well). At best, a few talented developers will have the time and budget to use it to create more immersive and/or new styles of games. I'm sorry the PS2 didn't live up to your expectations, but that's just not really relevant to the discussion of a new emerging standard for consumer electronics CPUs. Marketing hype is always marketing hype, I'm simply talking about raw potential.

Lack of Mature Games

[LordZardoz]

I am what I consider to be a pretty big fan of Nintendo. I own a sizeable selection of titles for my Cube, and will likely buy the Revolution at launch.

However, I am also concerned that Nintendo has run, and continues to run, a considerable risk in alienating the traditional hard core gamer audience. They do this by lacking games that appeal to a mature audience. From their own studios, the best game they have to appeal to that crowds tastes is Metroid. They have had mature games show up on the console, but they have not remained exclusive to their platform (think Resident Evil 4).

Now, Nintendo could possibly remake the entire video game market if they succeed in their push to put games out that appeal to non gamers. But its foolhardy to alienate what is likley the most loyal and consistent audience for videogames.

I am not saying that I want to see a slew of games that showcase screaming, bleeding, killing, and explosions. But I would like to be able to play a well considered and sell made R rated game.

Grand Theft Auto did not get press because its a very violent game. It got press because it was a very violent game that happened to be a very well made game. I dont want Nintendo to be the company that has great non violent games. I want Nintendo to be the company that has ALL the great games.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:Lack of Mature Games

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, NO.
The dumb high-school jock/gaming moron/animu fag market segment is best left owning a PS2 or Xbox, thank you. I want a clean environment for my clean console. If 14-year old joe wants big bewbz and lol gore in his game, that's fine, I just don't want this kind of SHIT to smear my turf. Because this whole "IT SELLS SO EVERYONE MUST COPY THE GENRE KING" crapfest has GOT to end before all innovation is killed.

Revolution today!

Re:Lack of Mature Games

[G-funk]

It obviously just a choice they've made. Money gets you a 6 month exclusive on GTA which sells consoles, and they've got enough money to buy it if they wanted to. But I think i's clear that they don't wanna play that game. It's a shame, because americans are obsessed with having "the most popular" version of anything, and it means there's games I can't get on my cube, but such is life. I've got a gamecube for games, and a playstation for GTA. But it's a second hand playstation at least :)

Let me put it this way

[SpaghettiPattern]

I disliked the purple color of the Gamecube because IMO it was childish and ugly. It's only out of supply reasons that I got a purple one.

Then I played on it ... and boy do I like the Nintendo games.

Now I hope the Revolution comes in purple.

Re:Let me put it this way

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not purple it's indigo, which happened to be exactly the same color as SGIs when the gamecube was being developped... by the engineered who designed the SGI graphic cards.

I know it's exactly the same color as we still have SGI Octanes at work.

btw, the official colors are black and white, possibly also red and green.

Re:Let me put it this way

[Anonymous Coward]

SGI was on for the N64. ArtX/ATI were on for Dolphin.

If I only had a brain--Whoa!

[Hitto]

Doesn't he first need to meet the wizard of Oz for one of the pre-requisites to happen?

$20 NES Classics

[randomizer9]

Remember that they did charge $20 a pop for GBA versions of NES games awhile back. To be fair, they appeared to be emulated very well, with the slowdown and flicker intact.

If they charge more than $10/game, they're out of their minds. $5 would probably be a good amount and seems to be the going rate on Xbox Live Arcade, so I hear.

That said, the $20 I spent on GBA Dr. Mario was worth every penny.

People just don't get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gamecube's overall performance WASN'T entirely Nintendo's fault.

3rd parties DELIBERATELY CHOSE to ignore Gamecube owners. They screamed and cried for a disc based system, they screamed and cried for network capability, they screamed and cried for lower licensing fees, they screamed and cried for every little thing they could. When Nintendo delivered all that and more, they screamed and cried about something else. Then they all ran back to Sony and Microsoft for more abuse and restrictions like the spineless retards they are. Fuck them.

Nintendo did their best with the Gamecube and succeeded adrmirably in spite of the opposition. If the Revolution doesn't succeed, it will be because EVERYONE ELSE was too short sighted.

Its not a choice Nintendo made

[LordZardoz]

I dont think that Nintendo made a choice to not have Grand Theft Auto on their platform. They did make a choice not to make games in that vein, but but that is not quite the same thing.

I am concerned for Nintendo's long term success if great games do not come out on their console simply because they have aquired an image of being child friendly. Trying to skew their market towards people that are not traditionally gamers may turn out to be a great strategy. But you cannot deny that peoples perceptions play a huge part in their purchasing decisions.

Pokemon is a great game. I know this because I have played through and beat it. But I only played the original just this January. I did not purchase or play this game previously because the overwhelming cuteness of the surrounding fad repelled me. And I bought the Gamecube at launch with Super Monkeyball.

The cute factor can blind people to the presence of an excellent game. In Nintendo's case, the accumulated cute and kid friendly factor has turned consumers off to their platform.

END COMMUNICATION

All about image

[Admodieus]

For the longest time, the Big N just flat out didn't care about their image. I mean, seriously, who preferred a purple Gamecube over a black one, or a purple Game Boy Advance over a Glacier? Some may make the argument that color is one of the more trivial factors in a system's launch, but it goes a long way to influencing public perception.

It looks like the company is finally realizing how big of a role public image plays in the success of the company. The GBA SP and now DS Lite are very sleek devices, and the Revolution isn't all that flashy but at least it doesn't sport a handle, either. With their first online first person shooter being released in two weeks, I'd like to assume that the company has finally turned it around and won't ever look back, but I'm just not that sure. Yet.

Re:All about image

[justchris]

Nintendo has always cared about their image. It's just a matter of priorities. Before they were more concerned with the image their games presented, not the image their system presented, because the system aesthetic didn't seem to matter to them.

The primary reason for that change is that the president of the company has changed. Everything about the DS is the responsibility of Satoru Iwata. It's his first system launch. He's been responsible for the direction Nintendo is going in now, so you can expect the Revolution launch and lifecycle to go more like the DS'.

How long were they available?

[LKM]

First of all, the Cube sold 1/3 as well as the NES. That's a whole lot better than I expected.

Second, does anyone know how long these consoles were available? I think the NES had a pretty long life, while the early introduction of the 360 makes the Cube's life rather short.

If Nintendo goes out, so do I..

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'd bet that a small chunk of the gaming population would go with me. I'd take my Revolution, a spare copy of the console, my SD cards packed with old Nintendo games (and spare SD card copies).. and I'd just stick to that >20-year library of games.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony and Microsoft are NOT gaming companies, and it would sicken/sadden/enrage me to see them take-over an industry that they only really view as a means by which to skulk their non-gaming crap into peoples' living rooms.

If you buy from them, you're only rewarding them for their bullshit - and have no place to bitch, be it about them or about Nintendo going down the tubes.

I'll have to read the article...

[justchris]

but I think you can pretty much be assured that the lifecycle of the Revolution won't go anything like the Gamecube, for one simple reason.

Satoru Iwata.

If you have not been paying attention to Nintendo recently (the past year and a half or so) you may not have noticed, but as a company Nintendo has changed significantly. The reason for this is Hiroshi Yamauchi stepped down as president and Satoru Iwata took over. For proof, look to the DS. Yamauchi had nothing to do with the DS, it was Iwata's project. His first console launch, sort of his chance to prove himself.

Nintendo has changed a lot with it's new leadership. It is a more aggressive company, and a more stylish company. They are in the process of revamping their image, and that means the focus on the Revolution is going to be entirely different from the focus of the gamecube.

I, of course, have my own ideas, but I'm looking forward to how they're going to market the Revolution, and what sort of games we'll see for it.