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Bacteria Eat Styrofoam

chaosmage42 writes "Scientists at the University of Dublin have found a way to break down styrofoam, the bane of recyclers/composters everywhere. This could be a great step towards sustainability, but it does require the styrofoam to be heated first."

253 comments

  1. So what about me? by PsychicX · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I eat styrofoam too. I didn't realize that I could get articles written about it! I guess it's time to author a new slashdot story.

    1. Re:So what about me? by daranz · · Score: 1

      That must be the first post by bacteria on slashdot! Whoa!

      --
      This is a sig. It is appended to the end of comments I post.
    2. Re:So what about me? by sumday · · Score: 4, Funny

      perhaps, but definitely not the first post by organisms with the same intelligence level as bacteria.

      --
      sudo killall humans
  2. Global Warming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, with global warming this will no longer be a problem... :-P

  3. Side Effect by dsginter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unfortunately, eating the styrofoam causes the bacteria to shit lead. Give a penny, take a penny.

    --
    More
    1. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now we need a bacteria that eats lead and shits gold.

    2. Re:Side Effect by Douglas+Simmons · · Score: 4, Funny

      But what will happen if we rock the food chain boat like this, overfeeding the bacteria, to the point that they grow exponentially in population? Would you for one welcome our Lead-Pooping Overlords then?

    3. Re:Side Effect by kfg · · Score: 1

      No, petrol. Closed system.

      KFG

    4. Re:Side Effect by VitrosChemistryAnaly · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Unfortunately, eating the styrofoam causes the bacteria to shit lead. Give a penny, take a penny.

      Then we would just need bacteria that eat each successive product until something useful comes out.

      1. Bacteria turn styrefome into lead.
      2. Bacteria turn lead into copper.
      3. Bacteria turn copper into Guiness.
      4. Profit!!!

      --
      "It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
    5. Re:Side Effect by evil+agent · · Score: 5, Funny
      All we need to do then is create some genetically modified mice whose urine kills the bacteria.

      Ah, the circle of life...

      --
      End transmission.
    6. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yes. I welcome our Lead-Pooping Overlords any day.

      Eat hot lead Kincaid!

    7. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Turn Styrofoam into Guiness using bacteria - BRILLIANT!

    8. Re:Side Effect by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Funny
      1. Bacteria turn styrefome into lead.
      2. Bacteria turn lead into copper.
      3. Bacteria turn copper into Guiness.
      Step 4: Europeans drink Guinness and piss out American beer.
      Step 5: Sell American beer
      Step 6: Profit!

      Yea, I know, the Europeans get a free ride off the Americans.. again.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    9. Re:Side Effect by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

      All we need to do then is create some genetically modified mice whose urine kills the bacteria.

      Followed in short order by snakes to eat the mice, and apes to kill the snakes. Problem solved!

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    10. Re:Side Effect by MrNougat · · Score: 1

      It's quite curious that I have been reading The Cat in the Hat Comes Back to my son at bedtime recently.

      All we need is some VOOM.

      (Check the first '*' footnote in that last link.)

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
    11. Re:Side Effect by ExE122 · · Score: 1

      Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
      Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
      Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
      Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
      Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
      Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
      Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

      --
      Capitalism: When it uses the carrot, it's called democracy. When it uses the stick, it's called fascism.
    12. Re:Side Effect by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      They may also poop dark matter. Every pound of which weighs 10,000 pounds! [/oblig futurama]

    13. Re:Side Effect by brjndr · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unfortunately, eating the styrofoam causes the bacteria to shit lead. Give a penny, take a penny.

      Wait....are they shitting copper now?

    14. Re:Side Effect by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      Then we just need to engineer some alchemist bacteria and we'll all be rich. RICH!

    15. Re:Side Effect by delong · · Score: 1

      1. Bacteria turn styrefome into lead.
      2. Bacteria turn lead into copper.
      3. Bacteria turn copper into gold.
      4. It's the PHILOSOPHER STONE!!! Eureka!

    16. Re:Side Effect by AvitarX · · Score: 3, Funny

      You need to wait for winter to kill the apes though.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    17. Re:Side Effect by I+Like+Pudding · · Score: 1

      It's a good thing I know how to turn lead into gold.

    18. Re:Side Effect by lcsjk · · Score: 1

      Lisa: What about global warming? Skinner: I'm on vacation tomorrow, so I will leave the project with you to finish while I am gone.

    19. Re:Side Effect by danpsmith · · Score: 1
      All we need to do then is create some genetically modified mice whose urine kills the bacteria.
      Ah yes, and then turn on the circus music!
      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    20. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally a good use for Europeans, drinking Guinness(cow pee) to filter it.

      Maybe that would finally end the pissin contest between the EU and the US.

      Ok then, I'll just go now.

    21. Re:Side Effect by LordOfTheNoobs · · Score: 1

      And a little old lady to swallow the lot of it.

      --
      They're there affecting their effect.
    22. Re:Side Effect by operagost · · Score: 2

      I hate to stomp on a good joke, but the coolest part is that they excrete something valuable-- a biodegradable plastic that can in turn be easily digested by a wide range of bacteria (instead of this exotic kind) once the products it's used for have been discarded.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    23. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      couldnt we just just label the stryofoam as School dinners and sell them to the UK?

    24. Re:Side Effect by dillpick6 · · Score: 0

      Hey, if you put some BBQ sauce or some A1 on it, I will eat it too. I don't shit out lead either.

    25. Re:Side Effect by dingDaShan · · Score: 1

      bacteria nearly always grow exponentially in population... its just that with small numbers it is not as noticeable

    26. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      could we kill the apes with bacteria? WHOOOOOOOAAAAAAAA!!!

    27. Re:Side Effect by pr0f3550r · · Score: 1
      ....apes who within a few generations figure out that it is indeed styrofoam which gives rise to the urea-filled-bacteriacidal mice and decide to invent plastics to sustain their existence.

      Nature *always* finds a way.

    28. Re:Side Effect by jamesh · · Score: 1

      You idiot!!! it was all the beer served in styrofoam cups that caused the problem in the first place!!!

    29. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the PHILOSOPHER STONE!!! Eureka!

      Don't you mean the sorcerer stone?

    30. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, provided they were styrofoam apes.

    31. Re:Side Effect by Dr.+GeneMachine · · Score: 1

      No chance, the apes will find out about the great thermal insulation properties of styrofoam and shield themselves against the cold.

      --
      This comment does not exist.
    32. Re:Side Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American beer may taste like piss, but Guiness tastes like ass.

  4. Cancer anyone? by BecomingLumberg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Last I checked, heating styrofoam let off some pretty nasty gasses... Is this really the whiz-bang solution we were hoping for?

    --
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
    1. Re:Cancer anyone? by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

      Yeah well...

      Researchers came up with a brand new solution to make styrofoam disappear!

      The revolutionary new process is called 'burning', and it will get rid of styrofoam entirely!

      Of course they figured out what to do with the gases, they convert them to styrofoam, so with this amazing idea, they get rid of both problems!

      News at 11.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Cancer anyone? by hcob$ · · Score: 2, Funny
      Last I checked, heating styrofoam let off some pretty nasty gasses... Is this really the whiz-bang solution we were hoping for?
      Well, if you're going to stick your head into the oven that's being used to melt the styrafoam... you got other problems.
      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    3. Re:Cancer anyone? by Baseball_Fan · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Last I checked, heating styrofoam let off some pretty nasty gasses... Is this really the whiz-bang solution we were hoping for?

      I don't know how true this is, but when I was in highschool there was a book which was popular with the science guys called "Anarchist Cookbook". I remember something about disolving styrofoam cups in gasoline to make napalm.

      Something that might be a little off topic, but I was reading the news and a highschool kid got expelled for browsing the web for the cookbook. When I was in highschool we were allowed to read anything we wanted.

    4. Re:Cancer anyone? by hcob$ · · Score: 1
      Something that might be a little off topic, but I was reading the news and a highschool kid got expelled for browsing the web for the cookbook. When I was in highschool we were allowed to read anything we wanted.
      Last time I checked, I couldn't find Catcher in the Rye in my highschool library. Not that this is a good thing.
      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    5. Re:Cancer anyone? by reverseengineer · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The "pretty nasty gasses" are pretty much what the the bacteria are dining on. In this process, polystyrene is depolymerized back to styrene. Styrene is benzene with a vinyl group attached, and like most benzene derivatives, is generally bad for health, especially under prolonged exposure. The Material Safety Data Sheet for styrene notes in the toxicology section: Toxic. Carcinogen. Mutagen. Corrosive, causes burns to skin and eyes. Lachrymator. Harmful by inhalation, ingestion and through skin absorption. Long term exposure may affect CNS.

      Now, styrene isn't especially toxic- the quoted toxicity data applies almost word for word for many organic liquids- gasoline (petrol), for instance. This process of breaking down polystyrene foam isn't exactly something you can safely do at home. Then again, you probably don't recycle polyethylene or aluminum at your residence either. There are safety and economies of scale issues with recycling those as well. However, it may find application on an industrial waste management scale. Done under controlled conditions, this process should certainly be no more hazardous than any other industrial process- and less hazardous than something like petroleum refining.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    6. Re:Cancer anyone? by BecomingLumberg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That most certainly does work, although its a balancing act. You need really high octane gas if you want to put enough styrofoam inside it to make it really sticky but still burn. Really, you could do the same with gas and any flammable yet sticky substance (although its hard to get large quantities of superglue...). Vaseline works too, if you can get the two to emulsify.

      --
      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
    7. Re:Cancer anyone? by luder · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would be more worried if you said:

      "Last I checked, eating styrofoam let off some pretty nasty gasses..."

    8. Re:Cancer anyone? by BecomingLumberg · · Score: 1
      Toxic. Carcinogen. Mutagen. Corrosive, causes burns to skin and eyes. Lachrymator. Harmful by inhalation, ingestion and through skin absorption. Long term exposure may affect CNS.

      File that one in the 'Stuff I really didn't want to know' file.

      Honestly, that is pretty informative, in the I-wanna-pee-my-pants kinda way.

      --
      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
    9. Re:Cancer anyone? by Photon+Ghoul · · Score: 1

      Reading that book is a red flag to pretty much all authorities these days.

    10. Re:Cancer anyone? by abuthemagician · · Score: 0

      The cookbook was a great source of my teenage entertainment... The napalm floats nicely down brooks as well... The one thing we never had the materials to make was thermal nitrate...

    11. Re:Cancer anyone? by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      Hell, when I was in junior high, the Anarchist's Cookbook got me in a heap of trouble and I never even READ the damn thing.

    12. Re:Cancer anyone? by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Except the new stryofoam are biogradable unlike the first type. So yes, there is a difference.

    13. Re:Cancer anyone? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Time to teach those phonies a lesson I think.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    14. Re:Cancer anyone? by Photon+Ghoul · · Score: 1

      I actually believe that could be true. I'm not one for paranoid conspiracy theories and such but it's probably not even a good idea to discuss that book.

    15. Re:Cancer anyone? by jambarama · · Score: 1

      This isn't that big of a deal really. Landfills are currently full of styrofoam. And when it gets buried it gets hot. You don't need it so hot it burns (which produces the gases you reference).

      All you'd need to do is bury the bacteria deep enough in a styrofoam rich landfill and you're in good shape. It is warm enough for the little guys to go to work on all the styrofoam.

      I just wonder what else the bacteria attacks and how long it can live in the wild.

    16. Re:Cancer anyone? by krakelohm · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why does anyone wanna read about bread anyway?

      --
      You are all a bunch of idots.
    17. Re:Cancer anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, sounds like a plot for the next Godzilla movie.

    18. Re:Cancer anyone? by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      What? The first type is biogradable. The problem is it isn' biodegradable.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    19. Re:Cancer anyone? by gobbo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I actually believe that could be true. I'm not one for paranoid conspiracy theories and such but it's probably not even a good idea to discuss that book.

      You're referring, I hope, to the belief that the 'Cookbook' is a partly bogus text and that it was put out there as a tracer to mark suppressable malcontents. Low hanging fruit, in a sense.

      I hope you aren't intimidated to the point where you wouldn't even discuss subversive motivations and techniques, whether you intend to use them or not. Working towards a free society requires a healthy dose of this kind of talk -- for the sake of openness if nothing else -- whether you consider yourself suffering under tyrrany or not. Just part of staying vigilant.

      Mind you, I don't live in 'The Land of the Free,' and don't really know what it's like to live under fear of having the Feds show up at the door because of a t-shirt, or being jailed for failing to produce my papers.

      Information about making napalm with styrofoam wants to be suppressed... How about microbial expertise? I'm sure a real 21st century subversive 'cookbook' would find interesting uses for bacteria that can be tailored to only eat one industrial product.

    20. Re:Cancer anyone? by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that if they eat the styrofoam, how are they going to ship them ??

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
  5. In related news... by Billosaur · · Score: 3, Funny
    Kevin O'Connor of University College Dublin and his colleagues heated polystyrene foam, the generic name for Styrofoam, to convert it to styrene oil. The natural form of styrene is in real peanuts, strawberries and a good steak. A synthetic form is used in car parts and electronic components.

    Anyway, the scientists fed this styrene oil to the soil bacteria Pseudomonas putida, which converted it into biodegradable plastic known as PHA (polyhydroxyalkanoates).

    The next step for University College Dublin researchers is to get the bacteria to excrete Guinness.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:In related news... by Lectrik · · Score: 4, Funny
      The next step for University College Dublin researchers is to get the bacteria to excrete Guinness.


      Brilliant! ... but why force the bacteria to do something most of Dublin already does?
      --
      --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
    2. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The process will be detailed in the April 1 issue of the American Chemical Society journal Environmental Science & Technology.

    3. Re:In related news... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      The next step for University College Dublin researchers is to get the bacteria to excrete Guinness.

      Development plan:
      Step 1: Get Dublin researchers to excrete Guiness. Accomplished!
      Step 2: Who gives a crap?!

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:In related news... by Minwee · · Score: 3, Funny
      "The next step for University College Dublin researchers is to get the bacteria to excrete Guinness."

      Preliminary tests have already met with success in getting UCD researchers to excrete Molson Export, Labbat's Blue and three varieties of Budweiser.

    5. Re:In related news... by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      I call shenanigans on this one! No one from University College Dublin would even be remotely interested in ever consuming nor producing anything even close resembling Budweiser!!!!

    6. Re:In related news... by cashman73 · · Score: 1
      The next step for University College Dublin researchers is to get the bacteria to excrete Guinness.

      We don't need bacteria to excrete Guinness. The process of making beer is primarily done by yeast (another single-celled organism).

    7. Re:In related news... by hcob$ · · Score: 1
      We don't need bacteria to excrete Guinness. The process of making beer is primarily done by yeast (another single-celled organism).
      Yeah, but you gotta feed them hops, barely, and sugar! This you just feed the bacteria the styrafoam cup you just drank the guinness from and voila! 1/12 of a cup of Guinness!! YEAH!
      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    8. Re:In related news... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 2, Informative

      You wouldn't think so, but they do.

      I bartended all throughout college and on and off for a little while after while I built up my resume. You wouldn't believe how many Irish and German patrons I had that couldn't get enough of the stuff. It was amazing.

      You got to remember, our Imports are their domestic and vice versa.

    9. Re:In related news... by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      No, they weren't trying to create the Budweiser, they just noticed it as a by-product of this biological process. They're trying to figure out how to get it to become Guinness. Harp may be a logical interim step though.

    10. Re:In related news... by Thing+1 · · Score: 3, Funny
      Flaming plasma death
      This message will self-destruct
      Now the post explodes.

      A proper haiku
      Also mentions the weather
      or the seasons, dude.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    11. Re:In related news... by Lectrik · · Score: 1

      Flaming plasma death
              This message will self-destruct
              Now the post explodes.

      A proper haiku
      Also mentions the weather
      or the seasons, dude.


      Had you a day job
      I would tell you as a friend
      Not to give it up

      Yes, I realize That's from Ozy and Millie.
      But if you're gonna steal, steal from the best, right?
      And since when has Flaming plasma death not been a weather condition? such a boring little planet
      --
      --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
    12. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll back that up. I work at Universal, Orlando selling beer. All our bottled beers are $5... where available Heineken and Corona, and Bud Light seem to be most popular with Americans, while Budweiser, Bud Light and Coors Light seem to be most popular among the British (who are the most common foreign nationality to visit the park)...

      It was surprising how much in general they seem to love American beer...

    13. Re:In related news... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      I'll back that up too. The bar that I frequent gets a lot of Australians, and they drink nothing but Bud Light. There also tends to be a lot of Japanese, and they just drink Bud. Both of them are always saying, "This bar would be way better if you sold more than just Bud and Bud Light." "Shut up and drink it," the strippers always say. "Shut up and drink it."

    14. Re:In related news... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Well, I interpreted the plasma to be the monitor exploding. But whatever, I got 2 funnies out of it. ;-)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  6. Landfill problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now all we need is a landfill problem so this solution could really take off!

  7. Another method.... by gasmonso · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just disolve the styrofoam with gasoline and tada, you have napalm. Bingo bango, problem solved!

    1. Re:Another method.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so that's why the US has been warring constantly for the last 50 years - must be they saw this great potential years back! :)

    2. Re:Another method.... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      solubalizing != degrading

    3. Re:Another method.... by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 1

      Burning it also makes it go away. The fumes make me funny in the head, though.

    4. Re:Another method.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know this because Tyler Durden knows this...

  8. How long do plastic bags and bottles last anyway? by rogerbo · · Score: 1

    I've often wondered about exactly how long modern plastic bags or throw away plastic water bottles last when chucked into the sea or buried.

    The problem is really apparent if you travel through India or another less developed country. They have no social stigma against littering like we do in western countries.

    Plastic bags and water bottles are everywhere throughout the landscape, I've seen mountain villages use otherwise pristine streams as dumping grounds for vast mounds of plastic.

    Will these things ever break down? Does anyone have links to information on the actual rates of decay of a standard plastic water bottle?

  9. I've seen this in action. by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have 5-gallon bottle of water, algae, moss, various aquatic creatures and about a dozen styrofoam peanuts. Its a nearly closed self-maintaining ecosystem that my wife calls my "pet dirty water." After some 10 years, peanuts are almost 2/3 gone -- eroded by something in the water. 10 years may seem like a long time, but compared to scare-tactic predictions of that styrofoam never goes away, this article (and my aquarium) proves otherwise.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:I've seen this in action. by Slashdot+Junky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's awesome! You've got a wife that doesn't make you throw stuff like that out!

      Later,
      -Slashdot Junky

      --
      .
      Landfill Mining Co.
      Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
    2. Re:I've seen this in action. by flyingsquid · · Score: 4, Funny
      How do you go about setting something like this up- how much organic material, what kind of aquatic critters, etc.? (actually, self-sustaining ecosystems would be an interesting slashdot article I think... an ecosystem hack).

      My last experiment with aquatic ecosystems ended rather badly, unfortunately. I was raising a sea monkey colony. One night, I was enjoying a few beers, and I suddenly decided I had to know whether sea monkeys also liked beer. Science in action!

      Alas, sea monkeys do *not* like beer. I'm not sure if it's the various carbohydrates, yeasts and soforth that so disagreed with them, or if they just can't hold their liquor.

    3. Re:I've seen this in action. by HairyCanary · · Score: 4, Informative
      Or perhaps the styrofoam peanuts are merely breaking apart into smaller chunks. I do not see how your experiment proves that styrofoam does biodegrade (especially when there is scientific evidence to the contrary). And this article does not suggest that there is any bacteria that can eat styrofoam directly -- it has to be heated and converted back into liquid styrene first.

      Nice try though.

    4. Re:I've seen this in action. by DietFluffy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did you check the water for dissolved polystyrene? Solubility for polystyrene is very low, but it may be noticeable after 10 years. If it did dissolve and not degrade, that means that all the styrofoam is chemically unchanged and is still in the 5-gallon bottle.

    5. Re:I've seen this in action. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      The "various aquatic creatures" may also be trying to eat the styrofoam.

      I've watched fish try to eat bubbles before, so it isn't like they're very smart. (and even if they didn't try to eat bubbles, it isn't like they're very smart)

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:I've seen this in action. by bill_kress · · Score: 0, Troll

      The funny part is that your parent post has so much invested into his "Scientific proof" that he'll never just look at what you typed and say "Oh, yeah, I never thought of that" and pour it out.

      More often than not the fiscal conservatives that so often push these anti-environmental agendas are just as broken as the religious conservatives, but strangely enough often look down on the religious one claiming atheism as "the way" with a conviction as strong (and unfounded) as any christian religious nut.

      I love living in this age, so much to observe and so little time left...

    7. Re:I've seen this in action. by mikelang · · Score: 1

      Are you sure they eroded?
      The styrofoam peanuts may have been scraped by fish, but the substance may not have been deteriorated.

    8. Re:I've seen this in action. by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      Do you really not even know the difference between "bio-degrade" and "dissolve"? As others have pointed out, "bio-degrade" does not mean "becoming so small that it can't be seen with the naked eye anymore". Here's a little analogy to help you: If I dissolve a bit of arsenic in a glass of water until you can't see it at all, will you drink it? I mean, according to your analytical skills, the arsenic must be, um, "gone", so no worries right? I find such a depth of ignorance and lack of insight a little hard to believe from someone supposedly educated ... perhaps you were just trolling. What's perhaps more disturbing is your +4 moderation.

    9. Re:I've seen this in action. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I think you were very, very lucky

      http://www.stauffercom.com/chupacabra.html

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    10. Re:I've seen this in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Or perhaps the styrofoam peanuts are merely breaking apart into smaller chunks."

      Oh no - imagine tiny pebbles of a substance covering huge swaths of entire continents!

      Except, unlike "sand", styrofoam is evil because mankind created it....

      "Nice try though."

      Yeah, he sure tried to pull a fast one there. Good thing you caught him.

      Dork.

    11. Re:I've seen this in action. by kesuki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well I'd just like to point out a few points 1. Everything is either biodegradable, or erodable. 'non biodegradable plastic' is a con, it's plastic that takes Decades of exposure to sunlight, hot and cold temperatures to erode/degrade away. the thing is, landfills have NONE of that, they have one nice constant temperature, one nice constant level of humidity, and no sunlight of anykind. Plastatcs that can 'degrade' under the conditions found in a landfill can be made, mainly by examining the prevlent soil bacteria, and making the polymers an 'ideal' treat for said soil bacteria. normal houshold goods like 'apple cores' are non 'biodegradable' in that, once burried they become 'petrafied' and fosilized. (after enough time has passed)

      so really, 'biodegradable' is just a catch phrase, anything that is esposed to sun wind and rain long enough will break down. although it may not be 'safe' to allow such things to break down that way, as polystryne beads might choke innocent creatures trying to eat them, etc.

      however, building nearly self contained ecosystems to break town waste would create more of a problem, than processing them, or simply burying them already does.

    12. Re:I've seen this in action. by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      Except, unlike "sand", styrofoam is evil because mankind created it....

      And unlike sand nature did not have billions of years to get used to it.

    13. Re:I've seen this in action. by AlterTick · · Score: 1
      Do you really not even know the difference between "bio-degrade" and "dissolve"? As others have pointed out, "bio-degrade" does not mean "becoming so small that it can't be seen with the naked eye anymore". Here's a little analogy to help you: If I dissolve a bit of arsenic in a glass of water until you can't see it at all, will you drink it?

      Not a very good analogy. Even though the polystyrene is only eroded to microparticles, it isn't actually poisonous. The question here really is whether non-visible trace quantities of polysterene are (pardon the pun) particularly problematic.

      Whether something can be eaten by bacteria (i.e. is biodegradable) is a bit of a red herring. Almost nothing in a landfill biodegrades anyway-- 100 year old newspapers remain readable. Biodegradability is a rather modern notion that came from the thought "wouldn't it be nice if everything we made or used were part of the great cycle of nature?" Well, sorry, but it just isn't that way, and devising a bacterium that eats styrofoam is nice, but largely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.

      --
      Conclusion: the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Accept it.
    14. Re:I've seen this in action. by BeanThere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not a very good analogy. Even though the polystyrene is only eroded to microparticles, it isn't actually poisonous.

      True, but the point of the GP post wasn't that the polystyrene wasn't poisonous, but rather that he thought that it was "gone" simply because he couldn't see it anymore, and for that point the analogy still stands.

      The general public's understanding and 'lay' usage of the word "biodegradability" may be a 'red herring', but the actual notion is important in studies of industrial chemicals and so on (e.g. cf http://www.steve.gb.com/me/work.html). Whether something can be eaten by bacteria (and broken down in this way) is actually pretty important, in fact it is one of the primary ways in which dangerous molecules are broken down in the environment into non-dangerous molecules. You make it sound like nobody worries about this sort of thing ever, which isn't true, there are plenty of once-common chemicals that have now been banned because they were toxic and found to persist in the environment (and more in the pipeline e.g. PBDEs) - the very reason we don't have to fear modern landfills so much is precisely because there is now a lot more 'control' over what is used or discarded in manufacturing and so the things we buy these days are a lot more "harmless". This isn't because biodegradability isn't a concern, it's precisely because it has been a very real concern.

      As for 100 year old newspapers being readable on a landfill, I'm rather skeptical of that claim, given that having "studied" my own garbage I've found that anything paper rots away within mere weeks. It's practically impossible to stop the stuff from rotting unless it's sealed, and there will always be humidity in the heap because a large portion of stuff on the landfill is 'wet' in nature (e.g. bits of rotting fruit peels) so you can't keep anything paper dry.

    15. Re:I've seen this in action. by alienw · · Score: 1

      You are mistaken. Apple cores will degrade quite rapidly if you bury them. Hell, you will probably even get an apple tree in that spot.

    16. Re:I've seen this in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I was refering to 'in a landfill' and no you don't normally bury an apple to plant an apple tree, which shows your ingorance.. one simply discaards the apple core, and allows it to rot away at ground level, and if all goes well one has about a 1/20% chance that an apple tree will germinate, and lower odds the sappling will survive. afterall apple trees produce hundreds of apples annually, with dozens of seeds a piece, to grow a few sapplings that will continue the legacy as the trees become mature and 'die'... another note, heat from fire will Improve the odds of germination Highly, especially will all the soot (and moisture) left over..

      Burying an apple is a good way to NOT plant a tree, the seeds need to be under no more than 1" of Loose potting soil (or even less 'typical' topsoil)

      Now sometimes, even burried the seeds can manage to 'grow anyways' but they need to be shallow enough for 'light' to penetate, wich generally means 1/4" to 1/2" of covering or less, many people germinate seeds under a single ply paper towel, to 'keep them moist' as a germinated seed can easily be transplanted into soil and you at least know which seeds germinated...

  10. As one learns too late by kmahan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Krylon spraypaint also eats away at it.

    --
    Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
    1. Re:As one learns too late by Prune · · Score: 1, Troll

      What an uninsightful comment. Many organic solvents will dissolve it, from acetone (nail polish remover), to most solvents in spary paints. But the result is still polystyrene, just compressed so it's not a foam anymore.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
  11. I hope it takes *something* by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This could be a great step towards sustainability, but it does require the styrofoam to be heated first.

    I hope so. It would be rather bad if there was a bacteria that could feed on styrofoam that hadn't been altered in some way. Order some electronics online, and they arrive in a box dripping with whatever organic waste products these bacteria leave behind... Yeah, I'm glad.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:I hope it takes *something* by Zerbs · · Score: 1

      considering TFA said the bacteria leave a form of plasic behind, if it solidified it would be rather difficult to unpack the box then.

      --
      "22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
    2. Re:I hope it takes *something* by Gwwfps · · Score: 1

      Well, at least if that happens, it would pressure people into developing some alternative to styrofoam.

  12. Cost/benefit? by ursabear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd like to see a comprehensive cost/benefit analysis in a real-world application. On the one hand, ridding ourselves of zillions of cubic yards of polystyrene materials (yes, Styrofoam is a trademarked name). On the other hand, releasing a bacteria through animal (?) husbandry may have repercussions about which we have not thought. I'd be very interested to see an analysis of whether or not these particular bacteria can have detrimental excretions, or even have an issue with the bacteria mutating into an "undesireable" breed.

    I'm glad this type of research is ongoing. We really need to help old lady Earth out as much as possible these days.

    1. Re:Cost/benefit? by Xonstantine · · Score: 0, Redundant

      When the styrofoam eating bacteria get out of hand, we'll just release some bioengineered bacteria eating eukaryotic flagellates to eat the bacteria. You know, like on the Simpsons.

    2. Re:Cost/benefit? by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting
      On the other hand, releasing a bacteria through animal (?) husbandry may have repercussions about which we have not thought.
      Reminds me of the bacteria that eats super-conductor materials from the Larry Niven Ringworld series.

      All the tech on RingWorld stopped working because some traveling ship showed up carrying a bacteria that ate superconductors.

      Floating cities crashed, people starved, basically everything went to hell and all the people reverted to tribal/nomadic existence.

      Admittedly, the bacteria came from outside the 'system' but there's a larger meaning in that story.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Cost/benefit? by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 1

      No problem there - we'll just release wave after wave of Chinese Needle Snakes.

    4. Re:Cost/benefit? by drew · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, yes, except that in that case...

      (*** minor spoiler if you haven't read beyond the first book ***)

      The bacteria were deliberately introduced into the Ringworld environment with that specific intention, so it wasn't an unintended side-effect.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
  13. Cost v. Benefit? by jon.wolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From reading the article (I know, how novel!), I understand that the styrofoam must be turned into a liquid and the first thing that came to my mind was: How much energy is required to do that?

    The foam doesn't just need to be warmed, it has to be heated to the point of breaking down. I can't imagine doing this on a large scale would be cheap. Would the enviromental impact resulting from the creation of millions of joules of energy required to break down styrofoam outweigh the environmental benefits of destroying the styrofoam?

    Also, I have learned from my accidental non-scientific microwave experiments that melting styrofoam smells terrible. Would liquifying styrofoam on a large scale produce similar noxious fumes (and potential environmental side effects)?

    1. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      Well, in a dump a lot of methane gas is produced as the items break down. Normally, this gas is just burnt. What if you burnt the gas to heat the styrofoam? It would be quasi-self sustaining.

    2. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by jon.wolf · · Score: 1

      This is interesting... How would you collect the methane off-gassed by the rest of the composting trash?

    3. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      Well....they have a way of doing it now. So I would propose that they do it however they currently are.

    4. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by Richthofen80 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Umm, when you recycle aluminum or steel, you have to melt it. Same applies for glass, I think.

      Recycling requires energy, yes. The benefit for recycling has never been that it takes less energy to form/manufacture , but that it is cheaper to buy X tonnes of used material versus digging/farming/buying X tonnes of new material.

      If you're worried about heating, I wouldn't be. Heat can be generated via electricity, which can be generated via clean methods.

      --
      Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
    5. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by Tmack · · Score: 1
      Normally, this gas is just burnt.

      Actually... more and more landfills are installing methane wells to collect and re-sell the gas. Partly because it can make them money, partly because its environmentally friendly, and mainly because the EPA/EPD says so with hefty fines for those that just burn it/vent it/do nothing.

      tm

      --
      Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    6. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by Pope · · Score: 1

      Good level-headed response. Recycling is also about waste diversion, which ties into the above benefits you mentioned. The last thing we need are more landfills slowly leaching toxic materials into the water system.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    7. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by LouisZepher · · Score: 1

      Unless I'm mistaken, and I very well could be, but most of the pro-recycling information/propaganda I hear is that it takes less energy to recycle a material than to produce it from "scratch". To me, this makes some sense, as I'd imagine mining for metals takes more energy than hauling trash to a facility.

    8. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by Slime-dogg · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of untapped energy in our landfills already. Build an incinerator, use it to convert the styrofoam, ship off the styrene oil over to a processing plant... or do it on the spot. I see no trouble here.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
    9. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

      I've heard (no references, sorry) that it does take more energy to recycle aluminum from a can than it does to dig the ore out of the earth. Take this information for what it's worth, an incentive to find the truth.

      --
      Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
    10. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by emandres · · Score: 1

      Funny you mention the amount of energy it would require to recycle styrofoam. It turns out that the process used to recycle paper consumes so much energy, that the amount of woods products burned in power plants exceeds the amount salvaged by the recycling process. Note that I heard this from my high school calculus teacher, so it might not be exactly reliable, but it makes you think.

      --
      The only way to tell the difference between a hamster and a gerbil is that the hamster has more white meat.
    11. Re:Cost v. Benefit? by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      Actually, in the case of aluminum, requiring less energy than new production is a very real benefit. Production of aluminum from bauxite requires large quantities of electrical energy, far more than it does to recycle aluminum.

      Other materials are likely similar - remember, everything from mining (or drilling) to refining to transportation requires energy, and when compared on a total energy use, recycling makes a lot of sense for a lot of materials.

      Metals make ideal canidates for recycling because existing refining processes already are able to cope with impurities.

  14. Gasoline dissolves styrofoam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We've known that since the Vietnam war, at least.

  15. Re:I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...hope they eat our late-coming, cliche-posting overposters.

  16. Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by dada21 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had a good debate with a ('socialist') friend yesterday regarding funding research and development voluntarily -- medical, environmental, etc.

    We had talked about the problem with pollution and his solution was always using government to try to make people stop polluting. Yet it seems to me that there are other solutions, including finding ways to take pollutants and break them down. I've heard more and more over the recent years about using bacteria to break down oil spills and radioactive wastes and even to use bacteria to eat up garbage dumbs. Here is another article regarding new bacteria that serve the purpose of cleaning up past pollutions.

    I know from my experiences that government regulations on polluting seem to have a positive effect of making the world cleaner, but they also have a negative effect of reducing a company's ability to provide their customers with a product or service at the best price. Sure, the average socialist will say that corporations just want to pollute the world so they can make a buck, but that's not the case: corporations want to provide the best price to their consumers, which is why pollution has tended to be so obvious. It also seems to me that there are new and amazing ways to fix the problem of pollution without only making the source stop.

    Are there organizations, private ones, that are dedicated to finding new ways to combat the pollutants around us? If so, I'd love to know how I can help fund them. I'm a regular reader of perc.org which focuses on private and voluntary environmentalism, and I'd love to put my money where my mouth is.

    1. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1
      We had talked about the problem with pollution and his solution was always using government to try to make people stop polluting.

      In many cases, it isn't that government needs to make companies stop polluting, it's that there is a lack of education and incentives to change things. In many manufacturing processes, for example, it is often cheaper to recycle solid waste products than it is to dispose of them. Unfortunately, in most of these cases, it requires the company to change their processes. The cost of changing these processes may be high, but in the long run, it saves the company a ton of money.

      Where government can help in this regard is in giving tax breaks and other incentives to businesses who make this type of investment. It's a win/win -- we get less pollution, the company makes more money, and companies that make more pay their employees more, hire more people and spend more money on new technologies and other things -- hence, improving the economy and improving the environment.

      Unfortunately, many knee-jerk liberals (and even some knee-jerk conservatives) hear "tax breaks" and think "corporate welfare." But it's not. In this scenario everybody wins.

    2. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      I know from my experiences that government regulations on polluting seem to have a positive effect of making the world cleaner, but they also have a negative effect of reducing a company's ability to provide their customers with a product or service at the best price. Sure, the average socialist will say that corporations just want to pollute the world so they can make a buck, but that's not the case: corporations want to provide the best price to their consumers, which is why pollution has tended to be so obvious. It also seems to me that there are new and amazing ways to fix the problem of pollution without only making the source stop.

      The average capitalist will also say the same ting with different words - pollution is called an externality and requiring that companies pay to reduce the amount of it is simply making them pay the true cost of production. Naturally, this increases their price. Oddly enough, it also makes the cleanup cheaper, as companies like to reduce their cost.

      I just don't get your hate for any sort of government regulation - socialist in the US is generally used as an insult.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    3. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you might be interested in the cradle to cradle folks:
      http://www.mcdonough.com/writings_new_paradigm.htm
      "Why not shift the focus of green design from managing the environmental impact of a destructive system to creating buildings and materials that generate wholly positive effects for people and nature. This changes the entire context in which design decisions are made. Rather than asking, 'How do I meet today's environmental standards?' designers would begin to ask, 'How do my design decisions make sense in the overarching context of the natural world?'"

      "Imagine a world in which all the things we make, use, and consume provide nutrition for nature and industry--a world in which growth is good and human activity generates a delightful, restorative ecological footprint."

    4. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by bobdinkel · · Score: 1

      Sure, the average socialist will say that corporations just want to pollute the world so they can make a buck, but that's not the case: corporations want to provide the best price to their consumers, which is why pollution has tended to be so obvious.(emphasis added)

      Corporations want to maximize profit. Period. Full stop. That's it. Of course, limiting pollution may be in line with that goal, but it might not be. Any action that a corporation takes to limit pollution is connected to an effort to maximize profit.

      --
      A publicly traded company exists solely to make profits for shareholders.
    5. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to watch the documentary entitled "The Corporation." See: www.thecorporation.com

    6. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by Politburo · · Score: 1

      Government very rarely tries to make people "stop polluting". Legislators and regulators understand that industrial processes and many things in our modern life cause pollution. There are only a few examples of 'zero pollution' initiatives, most notably the Montreal Protocol for CFCs, which has been by most accounts a great success, with the ozone hole actually shinking for some years (whether this is a direct result of the MP is yet to be determined, of course).

      I know from my experiences that government regulations on polluting seem to have a positive effect of making the world cleaner, but they also have a negative effect of reducing a company's ability to provide their customers with a product or service at the best price.

      While thats true re: price, it's simply a function of regulation. I don't think it's a valid argument against enviromental regs. The business community still does, and with each regulation they repeat the same doom-and-gloom "This will put us all out of business!" scenarios.. yet they're still here.

      I still have yet to see major pollution reductions or spill prevention initiatives that are not initiated by government regulations, be it direct regulation (thou shalt not emit more than X) or indirect regulation (here's a tax break if you cut emissions by Y).

    7. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by dada21 · · Score: 1

      Corporations want to maximize profit. Period. Full stop. That's it.

      While this is true of all my corporations, this is a confusing statement.

      How do I maximize profit? By making my customers happy today, and making sure they come back tomorrow. There are VERY few corporations that want to get in and get out -- the reality is that business has costs that take time to overcome, and exiting the market after gaining back these costs-to-entry doesn't make much sense from a time preference perspective.

      Also, not all profits are financial. One of my businesses offers advice for free, but I still make a huge profit. It isn't a financial profit, it is a profit in gaining information from those I advise. I use this information to make financial profits in other businesses.

      Profit is not bad, it means a gain instead of a loss. When a consumer buys something, they profit as well -- they're trading money worth less to them than the item they're gaining.

    8. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by bobdinkel · · Score: 1

      I think we're in agreement. When you see a company do something like give to charity, they aren't doing it to be nice. They're doing it for good PR and possibly tax benefits. It may also have a bearing on employee morale. My point being that this is intended to have a positive impact on the bottom line.

      Profit is not bad, it means a gain instead of a loss.

      I absolutely agree.

      There is no good or evil in the free market. I think that's what scares a lot of people.

      --
      A publicly traded company exists solely to make profits for shareholders.
    9. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by kavau · · Score: 1
      In the Perfect World (TM), the solution would be simple:

      Companies and individuals that produce pollution, trash, etc. place a cost on society: the cost and effort of cleaning up the mess, the research needed for finding efficient ways to do so, increased health cost, and the reduction in quality of life. Currently the taxpayer has to come up with this money, and since in most cases it's not included in the production cost, the markets are skewed. It's cheaper for a company to use a quick-and-dirty production process, even though the long-term cost for the country and for our society may be much higher. The obvious solution is to charge the manufacturer the total estimated cost caused by the pollution. Call it Environment Tax, Pollution Credits, or whatever you like.

      In the Real World (TM), of course, it's not that simple. How do we estimate the total societal cost of pollution? Who should calculate those numbers? Government or an independent agency? How do we make sure this money gets spent efficiently?

      Nevertheless, I would really like to see our society taking steps in that direction.

    10. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christ man, with all the businesses you run maybe you should be attenending to managing them instead of posting on every other slashdot thread.

    11. Re:Private enviro-bacterial research organization? by MrTester · · Score: 1

      I suppose you are right. The free market will eventually get rid of most of the world's ills because in the end, businesses realize that it is in their best interest to take care of their world.

      This is why the free market would not tolerate things like Slavery, child labor, sweat shops, lower salaries for women and minorities, unsafe working conditions, and a host of other things that the governments were too ineffectual to resolve.

      (Note for the Irony impaired: This is sarcastic)

  17. And of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia Styrofoam eats you!

    There. Someone had to do it.

  18. Precedent: Teflon by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

    Did you guys remember how Teflon(TM) was non-biodegradable? Well, the Teflon guys modified E.Coli to digest Teflon. Ta-da, problem solved :)

    See, this is one of the good parts about genetic engineering, I recall other bacteria being used in water treating plants to process cyanide (was it on Discovery where I saw it?). To prove the non-toxicity of the water they used fish in the outstream. The fish was breathing without problems.

    1. Re:Precedent: Teflon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, how do we know the fish weren't genetically engineered to breath (gill?) in a high cyanide environment?

  19. Amazonian beetle larvae eat plastic by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I was in Manaus, Brasil many years ago, the entire floor was covered with poisonous liquids... Eventually we found the big 200 L barrel which had emptied. Who would emptied that barrel, and why?! Well, the answer was underneath. The entire bottom had been perforated by some notoriuous beetle larvae eating the low polymer plastics of the barrel. It had the beautiful winding pattern you may see on murky wood at times. Guess if that 1 cm larva got a surprise trying to drink 200 L of poisonous fluids...

    1. Re:Amazonian beetle larvae eat plastic by devilsadvoc8 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure the larvae ingested the plastic? Many insects just masticate the material and mix it with their saliva to create building materials or to get to the next layer.

      --
      B O R I N G
  20. It's "University College Dublin"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...not the "University of Dublin" which is a completely different entity.

  21. bacteria.. by dan20164 · · Score: 5, Funny

    now if they could only fart ozone..

  22. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Generally speaking it's pretty slow. Hundreds of years. And even then you will be left with some nasty redidue. It's a petrolium product. They never really go away.

    That's why we recycle so much plastic these days. I believe all water bottles are recyclable. Now in countries without recycling, yeah, big problem. But whatever, they got all sorts of problems if they're a 3rd world country.

  23. Finicky bacteria by Cunk · · Score: 1

    "but it does require the styrofoam to be heated first."

    What will they demand next? Some rolls and butter?

    --

    I am the inventor of the hilarious refrigerator alarm.
  24. Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Larry Niven's famous Ringworld civilization (SPOILER ALERT) collapsed when they became infested with rampant superconductor-eating bacteria.

    What happens when these bacteria inevitably escape into the "wild"? Powerplants and conduits, whose designers never anticipated that hot styrofoam would rot within a few weeks, could suddenly fail, causing disasters worldwide. Nuclear plants, including nuclear submaries and aircraft carriers, could literally explode once their insulation (both heat and electric charge) disappears. Less sensational, but probably more destructive overall, bacterial infestations of general consumer products would destroy vast amounts of property with styrofoam components. Much of it critical, some of it valuable, but all of it gone, likely in large quantities.

    The bacteria engineers would be much more responsible to include a critical factor required by the bacteria for digesting styrofoam, other than just heat. Like a cheap, biodegradable, nontoxic fluid "tagged" with a specific set of functional groups. That "synthetic enzyme" would allow the bacteria to eat the styrofoam when applied. When not applied, the bacteria couldn't eat, couldn't reproduce. We could control the amount of styrofoam consumed by controlling the cheap enzyme, mixing it into landfills and water purification.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Larry Niven's famous Ringworld civilization (SPOILER ALERT) collapsed when they became infested with rampant superconductor-eating bacteria

      a) That was just a work of fiction.
      b) Regardless, the superconducter-eating bacteria was created specifically for the purpose of collapsing the Ringworld civilization by the Pupeteers, who were after the ringworld for their own purposes and didn't want any opposition.

      Yes, bacteria can mutate, but I'm sure we'll notice long before it becomes a problem; like maybe when they stop eating styrofoam and the environmental chamber that keeps the bacteria warm is starting to erode? A few gallons of gasoline (to go with the styrofoam) and a match will take care of that problem.
    2. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by MCraigW · · Score: 1

      Yeah... ever read Mutant-59 the Plastic Eaters by Kit Pedler and Gerry Davis? Scientists engineer bacteria that can eat plastic, ending plastic polution -- and it turns out to be a mistake.

    3. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Yes, Anonymous Puppeteer Coward, _Ringworld_ is science fiction. That's one of the most popular ways we imagine the consequences of scientific and engineering innovations, before it's too late to do something to protect ourselves. It's not a bible that must come true - just a detailed projection of consequences that we can judge for ourself, from the real world at hand. After all, your post is just an anonymous message on Slashdot, but it's worth dismissing on its own merits, not just because of its humble origin.

      The origin of the Ringworld bacteria is immaterial, applying your own argument (a). You can't use an "argument from analogy" complaint, no matter how specious against my point, then base your own argument on the part of the analogy most specious, and least consequential.

      Besides, I'm not talking about bacteria mutating. I'm talking about the designed bacteria escaping, like any industrial pollution. Which is exactly what happens today, with much less at stake, regardless of the _Ringworld_ novel I used to remind many Slashdot readers they've heard this before. There ain't no "environmental chamber" containing the infestation at your local steam plant they're infesting, and spraying gasoline around isn't a practical approach to a widespread outbreak.

      You should leave the science and engineering alone, and stick to the fiction. It's less rigorous.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    4. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Jerf · · Score: 1

      That's not really a spoiler. By the time any of the books happen, that event is ancient history. It's no more a spoiler than the fact than "there's a Ringworld".

    5. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Much of the story unfolds within the tension of "what happened to everyone"? The answer is revealed at the end of the book, though those events predate the rest of the story. "There's a Ringworld" is revealed not onyl early in the story, but in the title and (usually) the cover illustration.

      What if I told everyone currently reading the book that the Ringworld turns out to have been produced by Protectors, whose larval forms are mere humans? Even more ancient history, but still spoils some of the suspense. Someone other than the author telling the "big picture" story takes the fun out of reading it yourself.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    6. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      If you'd told me not to bother with Ringworld Throne, I'd have been grateful.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    7. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      If you'd asked, I'd have told you to quit at the title - my copy got thrown through an open window.

      Also, FYI, Larry Niven is an obnoxious jerk. Who hasn't written anything good on his own in almost 30 years.

      But "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" is a classic.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    8. Re:Not With a Bang or a Whimper, But a Burp by juhaz · · Score: 1

      It doesn't eat just any slightly warm styrofoam, it doesn't even eat melted polystyrene, it eats styrene.

      If your styroform has been heated to the point of depolymerization, it's no longer styroform, and it has long since lost any heat insulating properties (which were due to the suspended gas) it once had, I don't know about electrical properties of monomer styrene but no doubt they're nothing to write home about either - especially when it, being a liquid with newfound mobility, is no longer where the insulation was originally needed.

      So there, your everyday styrofoam should be perfectly safe, and only place the escaped bacteria might find a feast at is a powerplant that has already exploded.

  25. I'm with you by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

    Or, at least I say I am to people I work with. I also usually add "I don't have kids, why should I care". This usually gets their attention a bit more than whining to them about the environment.

    Don't forget to mention that you're buying a gas sucking utility vehicle!

  26. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by Baseball_Fan · · Score: 1
    The problem is really apparent if you travel through India or another less developed country. They have no social stigma against littering like we do in western countries.

    Plastic bags and water bottles are everywhere throughout the landscape, I've seen mountain villages use otherwise pristine streams as dumping grounds for vast mounds of plastic.

    Will these things ever break down?

    As technology increased, we will find solutions. Look at space travel. At one time, it was something only a large government superpower like the USA or USSR could do. 30 years later there are other nations. And today we have private companies taking people into space. What will happen in another 20 years, will a ticket for a space flight fall to $500?

    One possible solution to the problem you describe is to use the great incinerator in the sky. Maybe NASA will become profitable as the largest garbage company?? They will support their research branch by hauling away our plastics on one way trips to the sun in cheap shuttles.

    Maybe some company will find a way to refine or recycle plastics into usefull products. India is filled with engineers, one of them will think something up. Maybe the trash plastic can be melted and reshaped into a rock hard bycicle frame? Or it can be shaped like drywall to make cheap housing. Who knows. The only thing which limits us is our imagination. Until then, there will be lots of trash.

  27. This actually scares me by egomaniac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This actually scares me. What happens to modern society when bacteria, fungus, and other assorted critters evolve the ability to break down plastics? There is no particular reason this can't happen, as plastics would make an extremely high-energy organic food source.

    Imagine if your laptop computer started growing mold like an old loaf of bread. Now take a look around your house, office, or wherever and imagine if every single plastic item in existence did. Maybe it won't ever happen -- I certainly hope not -- but this is a worrying first step. Are we too confident in the permanence of our plastic items?

    --
    ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    1. Re:This actually scares me by Anomalous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What happens to modern society when bacteria, fungus, and other assorted critters evolve the ability to break down plastics?

      Probably something similar to what would happen if bacteria, mold, insects, et. al. suddenly started being able to eat wood!! Look around at all the things that are made of wood or use wood in their construction. Civilization would surely fall if that were to ever happen. Maybe if we're really lucky it will never happen. Or maybe, just maybe, we'd learn to deal with it.

    2. Re:This actually scares me by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
      I'm old enough to remember when not everything was plastic. I bet we get by without it. We'll have to do without or find a non-petroleum substitute at some point anyway.

      There are plenty of liquor bottles, used shag carpet, and other suitable cases for our computers.

      Besides, who designs something "built to last" and thinks of the most durable material available being plastic?

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    3. Re:This actually scares me by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it would be a nightmare. In fact, imagine if bacteria, mold, and fungii evolved the ability to break down food... with no food supply, we would die within days!

      See how ridiculous this sounds now? Bacteria and mold don't instantly eat anything. They are slow working organisms that cause no noticeable damage until their numbers build up.

      Mold can eat right through the drywall in your house, but it doesn't. That is because you keep it in check via cleaning and maintenence (at least I hope) and keeping it an inhospitable area (dry). No reason the same would not hold true for plastics.

    4. Re:This actually scares me by dubl-u · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Imagine if your laptop computer started growing mold like an old loaf of bread. Now take a look around your house, office, or wherever and imagine if every single plastic item in existence did. Maybe it won't ever happen -- I certainly hope not -- but this is a worrying first step. Are we too confident in the permanence of our plastic items?

      Given that wood, cloth, and leather are already biodegradable, I'm not so worried.

    5. Re:This actually scares me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a better laptop. My laptop is made of aluminum.

      I am done being a smart-ass Apple-troll now.

    6. Re:This actually scares me by Andrew+Clegg · · Score: 1

      Molds aren't bacteria. They're fungi. Being eukaryotes, they're more closely related to us than to bacteria (and much more closely related to some of us than others...).

      --
      Andrew.

      mailto:myfirstname.mylastname at Google's mail site
    7. Re:This actually scares me by jdibb · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't you just then push the blue button and your laptop recreates itself? That's what you do when your laptop gets eaten by little red bugs...

    8. Re:This actually scares me by egomaniac · · Score: 1

      So you don't think this could be a problem? How about it bacteria / fungi evolve the ability to break down PVC, which is used for plumbing systems? Good luck keeping the interior of your house's water pipes dry and well-lit.

      Maybe it will never happen. I certainly hope not. But if you think it won't cause major problems, you are deluding yourself.

      --
      ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    9. Re:This actually scares me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, the world ends. Read Ill Wind by Kevin J. Anderson & Doug Beason. It basically explores that very secnario.

    10. Re:This actually scares me by Pyrrus · · Score: 1

      but..but, what will we put cheap liqour in?

    11. Re:This actually scares me by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
      Mason jars.

      You get $1 off if you bring 'em back.

      Seriously though, my local grocer sells really good milk in glass jars, and it's about the same price as disposable if you bring them back.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
  28. Symantec = clairvoyant? by Rinisari · · Score: 1

    Now, if those bacteria give off energy as they devour the styrofoam, we already have some sort of algorithm to try to get the bacteria to follow courtesy of Symantec's recent coding contest.

  29. University *College* Dublin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "University of Dublin" => www.tcd.ie
    "University College Dublin" => www.ucd.ie

    They're different universities, can someone update the initial comment?

  30. Instead of heating the styrofoam... by briglass · · Score: 1

    cool the bacteria!

    --

    ----
    "Those who quote others are more likely to one day be quoted" -Tom Planter
  31. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by Secrity · · Score: 1

    The good news is that the PET (what water bottles are made from) will degrade from UV exposure. The bad news is that manufacturers add UV stabilizers to containers made from PET in order to protect the contents from UV, the stabilizers also protect the plastic from UV. My questions are: If PET water bottles will eventually degrade from UV exposure, what chemicals do they release and what compounds do they degrade into? Are the decompostion products more or less environmentally desireable than an intact water bottle? Are the UV stabilizers leaching into the product?

  32. Heated how much? by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article wasn't very clear on numbers, but...

    Composting produces quite a bit of heat, if it requires to be heated to those temperatures, it could be included in a process (bury it in compostable material, let the heat build up, etc).

    Else, you could use solar energy. Our backyard composters are black plastic, they're frigid now, but in the summer sun they get so hot you can barely touch 'em... then again, TFA seems to imply "heated to liquefaction", so, maybe not.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

    1. Re:Heated how much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, with a collection system, solar energy can get quite hot.

      Lens+Ant+sun= no more ant

  33. The end of the world as we know it... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I might be the only one who remembers Larry Niven's "Ring World" series - SciFi about a ring that completely circles a star, and that provides many millions of times the living area of Earth. The Ring World's civilization was destroyed through the introduction of a plastic-eating microorganism. (The things ate the superconductors.)

    I've long worried that some entrepreneurial little microbe would learn to efficiently eat modern plastics, and spread. My truck wouldn't run without plastics. My computer would not work. My carry pistol's polymer frame would be eaten (no that it would help vs. microbes.) Food packaging would be targeted. All that storable food in 5 gallon buckets and Food Saver bags would be exposed. The handle would fall off my pocket knife! My cheap, optical microscope that I put aside for post-nuclear-war diagnosis would be trashed. Most lab equipment is plastic, and would be eaten. Plastic pipes and valves would die, causing problems. We would not have the technology left to beat the little buggers, and we'd die off.

    Andy Out!

    1. Re:The end of the world as we know it... by MightyMait · · Score: 1

      Wait!!! We'd die off, or we'd have to go back to living the way we did before we had all this (plastic) technology (or do you posit we've depleted enough natural resources to make that untenable (or are you referring to geeks as the "we" who'd die off))?

      --
      Nothing interesting to say...MUST...NOT...REPLY...ohtheheckwithit.
    2. Re:The end of the world as we know it... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 1

      > Wait!!! We'd die off, or we'd have to go back to living the way we did before we had all this
      > (plastic) technology (or do you posit we've depleted enough natural resources to make that
      > untenable (or are you referring to geeks as the "we" who'd die off))?

      Before modern agriculture, the world could NOT have supported 6 billion people. If all the food production stopped due to the machines breaking down, we (humans) would die in mass. We can NOT sustain even 1 billion people without serious technology. In the 1960's, the great fear was that the world's population would outstrip the food supply when we had 5 billion people. They said it was impossible to feed 5 billion. Then, genetic engineering became common and GMOs replaced heirloom varieties...instant food boom. We've never had this little hunger (as a percentage) in the history of Man. We can support 10 billion on our current level of farming.

      At one point, the USA kept 3 years of food for every human in our country - today, it's a matter of months. That means a disruption in the food supply would be BAD. When people are starving, and every gadget we depend on has gone bye-bye, things would get VERY nasty.

      People would be killing each other, burning buildings, etc. A single fire would easily turn into a fire storm with no fire department. Remember, fire fighting equipment does not work without plastics.

      The only hope for an individual (and even this is a long shot) would be to:
      (1) Hide and live on previously prepared supplies until the die-off was over. This would take months if everyone shared equally, but would more likely take decades as people killed each other for supplies, and even turned cannibalistic. See S M Stirling's "Dies the Fire" for a SMALL taste of what would happen. At least in that book, the compound bows still worked. He he he...the cams would be eaten by bacteria in this case.
      (2) Work the Earth (farm) while living on previously prepared supplies until a harvest came in. Because of the timing, you would have to wait until the September following the February following the end of the die off. That could easily be 2 years post-collapse. All this time, the handles on my tools have decayed; the bushings and electronics are fried, etc.
      (3) Learn to live without modern technology. Rebuild.

      You would have a different population (in physical characteristics, and knowledge.) Well fed modern people are bigger than, but not as strong as our ancient counterparts. Evolution would take an interesting turn.

      We would also have a different base of raw materials to deal with.

      To answer your question about raw materials...I'm not too keen on digging a mine and pulling out ore to smelt if I've got a perfectly good piece of sheet metal sitting in front of my (from a car, for example.) Eventually, we'd salvage the materials that kept 6 billion people going, and use them for the few million that would be left. Metal does not disappear, even when melted in a fire storm. It would be MUCH easier to access in a twisted pile of rubble than it was originally 100 feet underground. If the fecal matter well and truly enters the ventilation, I would love to own a scrap yard or city dump a few years later. Scavenging for parts, or the material to make parts, would be lucrative.

      Andy Out!

  34. Restaurant-eating bacteria by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    This is great news!

    Now we need to take it to the next level and find out a way to make these same bacteria eat whole fast food restaurants, and the world will be saved!

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  35. Shades of Andromeda Strain? by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    Hmmm... sounds to me like the packing, cooler, refrigerator, insulation and plastic cup industries could be in BIG trouble if this little bacteria gets out in the wild in warm climates. Would you believe picking up your cooler in the park and having the bottom fall out? ;P

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  36. crap... by dbucowboy · · Score: 1

    ...this could be the demise of shipping containers everywhere!

    --
    This just in! 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population.
  37. Big Deal by chillmost · · Score: 1
    My little brother used to eat styrofoam when he was 5. Actually, if that is so special, he's got me to thank. I forced him to do it.

    I kid, I kid.

  38. I know an old lady... by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...who swallowed a cat
    How about that? She swallowed a cat!

    She swallowed the cat to catch the rat,
    She swallowed the rat to catch the spider
    That wiggled and jiggled and tiggled inside her.

    She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
    She swallowed the fly to catch the bacteria,
    She swallowed the bacteria to catch the styrofoam,

    I don't know why she swallowed the styrofoam,
    Perhaps she'll experience lead-hydrocarbon toxicity effects.

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
  39. Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by fortinbras47 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Don't get me wrong, I think the science here is really awesome!

    But on a public policy side, there's no landfill shortage at all.

    Check out this article from the New York Times magazine, "Recycling is Garbage" by John Tierney. From the article:

    A. Clark Wiseman, an economist at Gonzaga University in Spokane, Wash., has calculated that if Americans keep generating garbage at current rates for 1,000 years, and if all their garbage is put in a landfill 100 yards deep, by the year 3000 this national garbage heap will fill a square piece of land 35 miles on each side.

    This doesn't seem a huge imposition in a country the size of America. The garbage would occupy only 5 percent of the area needed for the national array of solar panels proposed by environmentalists. The millennial landfill would fit on one-tenth of 1 percent of the range land now available for grazing in the continental United States. And if it still pains you to think of depriving posterity of that 35-mile square, remember that the loss will be only temporary. Eventually, like previous landfills, the mounds of trash will be covered with grass and become a minuscule addition to the nation's 150,000 square miles of parkland.

    It appears someone archived it here.... http://www.williams.edu/HistSci/curriculum/101/gar bage.html

    And there's the actual nytimes page... http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/magazine/063096- tierney-magazine.html (If you get to this link from John Tierney's nytimes columnist page, they give you this article for free, but if you follow any other link, they try to charge you. weird!)

  40. Biodegradability is over-rated by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    Something that is inert in the environment like polystrene really isn't that much of a problem. We have plenty of land, the only problem with landfills is the NIMBY phenomena.

    What becomes a problem is when stuff starts degrading into bioactive compounds that cause various health issues. Once an inert material becomes toxic and mobile through biodegradation have you really done anything good?

    1. Re:Biodegradability is over-rated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solution for NIMBY, put it in their front yard.

    2. Re:Biodegradability is over-rated by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >Solution for NIMBY, put it in their front yard.

      Front yard, back yard, whatever, just make sure it's the house of the CEO of the company that made the stuff.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  41. Heated... by Phaed · · Score: 1

    but it does require the styrofoam to be heated first

    Well of course! Who wants to eat cold styrofoam?

    1. Re:Heated... by LouisZepher · · Score: 1

      Never had a rice-cake before, have you? :P

  42. Pebble bed reactor by Vandilizer · · Score: 1

    Would this not be an excellent use for a Pebble bed reactor or similar device instead of using heat to make electricity to make heat why not just use the heat?

  43. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  44. It's Mutant 59!!! by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670496626/102-17 19409-4630548?v=glance&n=283155

    When this gets into the environment, and teams up with an extremophile to create the heat, watch out. End of civilization as we know it.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  45. Won't they just be hungry again in an hour by geekwithsoul · · Score: 1

    Won't they just be hungry again in an hour after eating the stryofoam that my Chinese takeout came in?

  46. University of Dublin by rmccann · · Score: 1

    University of Dublin is a different university altogether. University College Dublin is part of the National University of Ireland. University of Dublin is our arch nemesis Trinity College! Damn Prodestants! Taking credit for our work!

    1. Re:University of Dublin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Damn Prodestants! Taking credit for our work!

      That's "Protestants". We'll take the credit and teach you to spell too ;-) The OP is correct of course. There are three universities in Dublin; TCD, DCU and UCD. TCD is the "University of Dublin".

    2. Re:University of Dublin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always assumed that UCD students ate things like styrofoam anyway... (when they weren't drinking agricultural diesel)

    3. Re:University of Dublin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "UCD" this infidel is referring to is Univ. of Ca., Davis. Yeah, there is nothing but buncha potheads over there.

  47. We use a product called "Meltdown" by HiVizDiver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We use a lot of EPS and styrofoam where I work (theatre, we make a lot of scenery with it), and we use a product called "Meltdown".

    http://visualpollution.com/Construction/meltdown.h tm/.

    Essentially you spray this stuff on the foam, it smells a bit like oranges. Within seconds, it "dissolves" the foam, and can actually be used over again, so what we do is spray the foam, then put it in a bucket and keep feeding pieces into the bucket. It makes a sticky "slime". I'm honestly not sure what we do with the substance once we're done, but I think that we just keep using it in the bucket, it keeps eating foam. I imagine that at some point it reaches some sort of "equilibrium" where it doesn't dissolve any more. The MSDS http://visualpollution.com/PDF/Meltdown.pdf/ says it is accepted by most sewage plants.

    I suppose the advantage of the article's subject is that it actually turns the foam into something usable, rather than just d-Limonene sludge.

    1. Re:We use a product called "Meltdown" by HiVizDiver · · Score: 1

      http://visualpollution.com/Construction/meltdown.h tm

      Wierd, dunno 'bout that link formatting... maybe I just suck at teh Intarweb.

    2. Re:We use a product called "Meltdown" by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interesting. I'd remembered reading on Slashdot a couple years ago about a Japanese scientist who discovered that orange extract would disolve styrofoam quite easily. I tried to do this myself, when I had a large bag full of shipping peanuts and felt bad just throwing it in the trash. I bought a bottle of orange cleaner and tried spraying over the styrofoam to little effect... Dipping a single peanut into a glass of the stuff did mostly dissolve it, but in the end the concentration of d-Limonene in the consumer product I bought was just too low to do the job I wanted. Glad to see others have had more success!

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  48. heat? oh yeah by grumpyman · · Score: 1

    Of course I'd rather have my food cooked than raw! Pan fried it with some salt please!

  49. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by SEWilco · · Score: 1

    Why the concern over a rock? A rather soft rock.

  50. Case Mod Time! by RossumsChild · · Score: 1

    [looks at his computer]

    I guess I'll be buying one of those expensive Aluminum cases when that happens. . .but the tricky part is input. Do they *make* metal keyboards?

  51. Heat-producing bacteria? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they can use a combination of heat-producing bacteria.

  52. Oh noes! by dud83 · · Score: 1

    Heated styrofoam! The humanity! :o

  53. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Could you also go ahead and post some links to articles regarding the fact that there is no impending oil shortage? (...or that global warming has nothing to do with human activity and the same goes for the ozone hole...)

    Recycling is about sustainability and energy efficiency. It's about turning the waste stream into a raw material stream, not about diverting it from landfills. Like any other process like this, it needs to be economical to be successful. Not that I have anything against landfills... I mean, they take up hardly any real estate and they smell fantastic!

  54. Five words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters

  55. Mutant 59 by Angstroem · · Score: 1
    What happens when these bacteria inevitably escape into the "wild"? Powerplants and conduits, whose designers never anticipated that hot styrofoam would rot within a few weeks, could suddenly fail, causing disasters worldwide.
    Well, go read a nice book: "Mutant 59: The Plastic Eater" by Kit Pedler and Gerry Davis.

    It describes that very scenario about some plastic-eating bug which accidentally is released and starts to chew not only on the plastic it was designed to eat but also other plastics...

    Cause that's the next question: you can design a bug which eats some certain sort of plastics, but what happens if it mutates and starts eating other stuff as well?

  56. It all fits together by sacrilicious · · Score: 1
    This could be a great step towards sustainability, but it does require the styrofoam to be heated first.

    Perfect! This is why we must continue our efforts to achieve global warming.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  57. dunkin' donuts coffee works too by androodotnet · · Score: 1
  58. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by xilmaril · · Score: 1

    I've noticed there seems to be less stigma, but I've noticed something else. all those huge piles of garbage have poor people living in them. we have poor people living in piles of garbage elsewhere in the world, too. we just call them hobos instead of peasants or subsistence farms, since we don't have nearly as many of them in the richer parts of the western world.

  59. Oh Bondage, Up Yours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll never get away with it!
    What did she ever do to you to deserve this?

  60. UCD, not University of Dublin by simoninireland · · Score: 1

    Not wanting to be pedantic or anything, but the researchers are at University College Dublin (UCD), not the University of Dublin, which consists solely of Trinity College Dublin (TCD). Far various centuries-old reasons, UCD is part of the National University of Ireland rather than being part of the University of Dublin. (Full disclosure: I'm an academic at UCD, and used to be an academic at TCD.)

    --
    -- Simon
  61. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by LouisZepher · · Score: 1

    But if we resort to dumping all of our trash into the sun, we'd soon run out of materials that could otherwise be recycled and the Earth would end up like Bethselamin. And you thought the receipt-whores at Walmart or BestBuy were bad...

  62. Napalm by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was going to say that too... but then you have to get rid of the napalm somehow. But then it's not a waste problem anymore. It's a military problem!

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    1. Re:Napalm by ne0n · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was going to say that too... but then you have to get rid of the napalm somehow. But then it's not a waste problem anymore. It's a military problem!

      Good idea. Who's left to invade?
      [x] Kuwait
      [x] Iraq
      [x] Afghanistan
      [ ] Canada

      --
      $ :(){ :|:& };:
  63. So does my wife. by mmell · · Score: 4, Funny

    She calls them "rice cakes", though.

  64. from the article - got to be careful by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 1
    The process will be detailed in the April 1 issue of the American Chemical Society journal Environmental Science & Technology.
    So are we to believe something published in a journal on April 1 ???

    Sounds suspicious to me - but then I love the random jokes people play on that day

    --
    I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
  65. This isn't Styrofoam!!! by deviantphil · · Score: 3, Funny

    Styrofoam (R) is a Trademark of The Dow Chemical COmpany. What this article is talking about is normal polystyrene such as taht used in cups.

  66. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by gardyloo · · Score: 1

    Why the concern over a rock? A rather soft rock.

          Good question. I guess the obvious (as you know) answer is that we're even softer rocks. And I, for one, care what happens to me and mine.

  67. Limonene by dusik · · Score: 1

    There was already a known way of breaking down polystyrene using limonene,the solvent in citrus oil in the rinds of citrus fruit -- the same solvent used in those aromatic citrus household cleaners.

    Using bacteria for this is new, but I thought it'd be helpful to provide some perspective on the subject.

    * BTW, Styrofoam is a brand that's been generalised, like Kleenex.

  68. Excellent... by Captain+Sid · · Score: 1

    Introducing styrofoam-consuming bacteria is all part of my master plan to get McDonalds to bring back the Mc D.L.T. Styrofoam is required to "keep the hot side hot, and the cool side cool."

  69. Sony and a polystyrene recycling process? by yeabirfday · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I went to the Metreon in SF and saw a display/exhibit on how Sony has been working on a way to recycle polystyrene, since they use it to box and protect all their electronics (like the custom molded bricks for TV boxes). Supposedly they used d-Limonene, an oil from lemon and orange peels, to dissolve the polystyrene while keeping the polymer chains long. I think limonene is also found in some cleaners because of its solvent properties. Keeping the chains long was important because when you recycle the material to make fresh "foam", the longer the chains, the stronger the material, hence other methods of recycling resulted in weaker material due to more chain-breaking.

    I think they even claimed it was implemented in Japan (I have no idea if this is true or not), with trucks that could pick up styrofoam and dissolve it en route, meaning they could pick up a LOT of material because most of the volume of styrofoam is air. Back at the processing plant, they clean the solution with filtering, recover the polymer chains, and make new materials, even stuff like pens, not just new styrofoam.

    In short, does anyone know more about this, and why it hasn't been brought to the US? (besides our suckage at most things environmentally friendly)

  70. Is this really useful? by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1
    So, you have to sort out the polystyrene, melt it down, and feed it to bacteria so you can make a different kind of plastic?

    How is this useful? Can't you just use the styrene oil (I think that's what TFA called it) to make more polystyrene?

    And if most polystyrene isn't recycled, how are you going to gather it up to feed it to the bacteria?

    Or are we going to light the landfill on fire, then spray it with the bacteria?

    I just feel like I'm missing something here....

    --
    The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
  71. Set Global warming to "preheat" by tbcpp · · Score: 1

    If the styrofoam needs to be heated first, we just need to start polluting our atmosphere, and then that will cause global warming which will allow the bacteria to digest the waste we create! Wait, somthing doesn't seem right about that...

    --
    Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
  72. styrofoam - explosives by smellsofbikes · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If one wants to do something useful with all the excess styrofoam, consider that it is basically a long-chain alkane with phenyl group side chains, each of which individually look a lot like toluene. Looking at it from the phenyl group's point of view, it's an aromatic ring with a big anonymous alkane hanging off it, which will act perfectly well as an activating, ortho-para directing side chain. Add some nitric and sulfuric acid and you've made poly-TNT. The only reason this is more difficult than the standard stepwise nitration of toluene is that it's hard to find a solvent that dissolves polystyrene but is also fully miscible with the nitric/sulfuric, but there ARE solutions (pardon the pun) to the problem.

    'course these days that's probably not a wise area to be researching.

    While I'm on the subject of getting hydrophobic and hydrophilic things together:
    Know why white bears dissolve in water?
    Coz they're polar!

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  73. styrofoam is the most efficient recyclable by mozkill · · Score: 1

    I read somewhere that when you burn it as fuel, styrofoam returns 90% of the energy that was used to create it. That is a pretty efficient recyclable if you ask me. You cant recycle the raw material but you sure can recycle the energy.

    --

    -- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
  74. There's no such place as the University of Dublin by john83 · · Score: 1

    It's University College Dublin. Did the submitter even read TFA?

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  75. Corrent university name by beanyk · · Score: 1

    This is somewhat late to the discussion, but I wanted to emphasise that this the research was done in University College, Dublin ("UCD", also known as "NUI Dublin"). The submitted blurb says "University of Dublin" (a.k.a. "Trinity College"), which isn't the same place at all. Think "Penn State University" vs. "University of Pennsylvania".

  76. i remember the old klingon adage... by m2bord · · Score: 1

    styrofoam is a dish best served cold.

    --
    Is it 5:30 yet?
    1. Re:i remember the old klingon adage... by Androk · · Score: 1

      You aren't allowed to post any more... GROAN!!!

  77. Eat your own shit by babbling · · Score: 1

    Maybe the people who produce styrofoam could eat it themselves.

  78. Interesting styrofoam/McDonalds story by babbling · · Score: 1

    So, in Australia, (and the US, from what I know) McDonalds no longer sell their burgers in styrofoam containers.

    I recently went for a bit of a tour of Europe, and while I was there, received burgers in styrofoam containers. I was a little surprised, as I hadn't seen a burger come like that for years and years. I was a bit more surprised, however when my girlfriend pointed out that the container said it was made in 1996. I didn't think about this too much the first time.

    Then I noticed that I was getting styrofoam containers from 1996 in more than one country, and ALL of the containers had "1996" on them. It seems like McDonalds produced TONNES of these containers in 1996 and when they were getting too much bad publicity in the US for using them, they shipped all of their US supplies over to Europe, where they are still using their surplus containers from 1996.

  79. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by Guano_Jim · · Score: 1

    Tierney's widely regarded as a grumpy-old-man crank with a self described "contrarian" streak a mile wide. In other words, he does this sort of thing to get a rise out of people.

    His article is pretty thouroughly debunked, and was nicely discredited within months of its publication.

    You can listen to the scientists, or you can listen to the crackpot at the NYT.

  80. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by SEWilco · · Score: 1

    Don't stack your rocks so high that they might fall on you.

  81. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by homebrewmike · · Score: 1

    I love this argument, because it's sooo liberal.

    In short it's "Don't worry about consequences, we'll figure out how to fix them."

    Now, don't dismiss it out of hand. The author is right - over time, people have solved some rough problems. The danger is getting fooled into it... for instance:

    Don't worry about smoking, we'll figure out how to cure cancer. I'm absolutely certain that someone will figure out how to cure cancer. I'm also absolutely sure that cure (for lung cancer) isn't going to be in the next year.

    So, let's take things a little more conservatively, and not spend our money before we have it. A little risk is worth a little reward - playing Russian Roulette is a dumb thing to do.

  82. But what about the Klingon Proverb? by serutan · · Score: 1

    "Styrofoam is a dish best served cold."

  83. Bumpers? by eonlabs · · Score: 1

    Aren't the bumpers in cars made out of styrofoam?
    And would they get heated enough during operation to allow for their decomposition?
    So hypothetically, if these bacteria get out, the world will be slightly less safe for drivers everywhere.

    I'll prime for someone:

    ...The good news is...

    --
    I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
  84. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The garbage would occupy only 5 percent of the area needed for the national array of solar panels proposed by environmentalists

    What the fuck does that have to do with anything? You do also realise that you're talking about a pile of trash that's half a kilometer deep vs a potentially small surface construct that can go anywhere?

    And why is anyone pro-solar suddenly lumped with those crazy "environmentalists" and talked down to? Your logic seems to be approximately: "Because environmentalists are no doubt hippies. And most hippies are communists. You don't like solar power.. you don't like.. communists.. do you?"

    Environmentally friendly practices should be the default, and a term should be applied to those that are not.. a term like: "destructionists".

    Anyway, your argument doesn't hold weight as I'd be quite happy to have the entire roof of my house covered with solar panels - and even as the entire surface of my driveway. This may come as a shock, but I don't want my house (or my backyard) covered in garbage - even if it was just a tiny bit to a depth of 300 to 500 meters.

    As a man-made construct: Solar panels == good. Garbage == bad. Got that?

    Eventually, like previous landfills, the mounds of trash will be covered with grass and become a minuscule addition to the nation's 150,000 square miles of parkland

    Yes. Except that you often have to sink pipes down into the ground to vent explosive gases as the trash decomposes or it may catch fire and burn. It'll also stink for a good 20 years, even when the vegetation returns. The groundwater will be permanently polluted in the region from the plastics, metals and human waste contaminants. Any structures built will be unstable as the ground slowly shifts on top of decaying matter. In short: that land will be destroyed.

  85. Scenario by knightri · · Score: 0

    Sounds a tad like Andromeda Strain; minus the death and nuclear fallout and the bacteria broke down rubber not plastic, but same concept.

    --
    'Or else pizza is going to order out for you'
  86. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    So you would rather that we wait for their to be a landfill problem?

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  87. Trinners... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm surprised that people from Trinity College (which is also Dublin University) haven't started a shitstormflamewar yet about /. referring to UCD as the University of Dublin...

  88. Everyone has a right to a hot meal.... by stevenharman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Even lowly bacteria.

    --
    90% of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.
  89. Re:There's no such place as the University of Dubl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *cough* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Dublin

    The University of Dublin has existed since 1592, however it has only one constituent college, this been Trinity (TCD)

  90. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by Stregone · · Score: 1

    You can't just launch something into space and have it fall into the sun. You need to blow a ton of energy getting rid of 30km per SECOND of sideways momentum or else it will completely miss the sun and orbit it instead.

  91. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by n7ytd · · Score: 1

    Environmentally friendly practices should be the default ...
    As a man-made construct: Solar panels == good. Garbage == bad. Got that?

          I'm all for getting energy from the sun, but a couple of years ago I read that because of the inefficiency of solar cells and their relatively short lifespan, that manufacturing a solar cell consumed more energy than what the cell would produce during its lifetime. Because of this, they really only made sense to use in locations where other electrical sources were not available.

          Has technology advanced to the point where solar energy is a net energy-gainer, or was my information faulty? Perhaps this loss was only for photovoltaic cells, and a solar-powered steam turbine system is a net energy producer?

  92. Well, this is nice and all... by Peale · · Score: 1

    ...but I was more interested in this story. Just think...soon there could actually BE sharks with freaking laser beams on their heads.

  93. Re:Cool science! But there's no landfill problem by Davey+McDave · · Score: 0

    Oh yeah, because evidently the US is the only country on Earth.

    Not all countries in the world have the vast amounts of land that the US does to just chuck things around. Sure, say, Canada does, or Russia, or Australia, but what about say, the Netherlands, where the density of population is absolutely massive, the suburbs practically never end.

    Here in the UK, it's either suburbs, villages, or farmland, too, and we've got a 60 million strong population. Occupying an incredibly small chunk of land. WE have a landfill problem.

    --
    I've got the spirit, lose the feeling.
  94. But what's the point of using bacteria by Ambix · · Score: 1

    So it's nice that they've found a bacteria with an interesting matabolism, but what's the point of speculating about using it to perform actual, industrial-scale recycling? Once you've gone to all the trouble to actually seperate and heat the styrofoam, there are plenty of great ways to perform reactions on it without going through all of the hassle of using bacteria to do it. If you have have styrene oil, your recycling problem is already solved -- the styrofoam has been saved from the dump, and you can use it as a feedstock for lots of reactions. The problem is performing the first step, and finding a less efficient (though extremely cool) way to deal with the styrene doesn't really help.

  95. That explains the cockroaches by tinkertim · · Score: 1

    I noticed that cockroaches also chow down on anything resembling cellulose ... in particular cigarette butts or styrofoam.

    I guess its the bacteria feeding within the pores of it that they're after, and not simply just digesting the styrofoam for the sake of eating something filling.

    I would also assume that THHN (common wire insulator made from polyethelene and polystyrene) has the same attraction for them.

    Kinda cool :) I always wondered what nutruitional value those things could possibly have for any living thing.

  96. Re:How long do plastic bags and bottles last anywa by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    The most difficult part of working for an ecological recycling firm is fighting the seagulls for your turf.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  97. Mutant 59: The Plastic Eater by wallsg · · Score: 1

    This book? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.seymour1/ukbookg Mutant 59: The Plastic Eater