Slashdot Mirror
Group Testing Widescreen LCD Monitors
An anonymous reader writes "If you're in the market for a new widescreen display, there's a group test of five models at the Bit-Tech site. The test focuses on real world gaming and DVD watching rather than artificial spec tests, and there's also discussion of design, ergonomics etc. An interesting read for those making the jump to wide." From the article: "Let's define the point of this test. We're going to make the assumption that you've got a half-decent graphics card, and you're looking for a new flat panel to connect to it. You want to watch movies on DVD and in hi-def (either as Apple trailers or via BitTorrent) and you want to play the latest games. The price range we're looking at is the £300-£400 range. Above that, you start to get into the territory of 24" screens from companies like Dell and Samsung. Below that, you're going into a range occupied mostly by 19" displays at 1280x1024."
Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.
Is ~$600-$800 (US dollars) really a reasonable prince range for this audience, though?
:)
I made $55k, which grants me significant free funds for someone still living at home with his parents. Still, my co-workers aren't even looking at LCD monitors above three or four hundred. For that you can get an okay 21 incher if you're willing to risk your money on the internets.
But twice that for just a PC monitor? That's easily as much as the rest of the system itself. You can watch DVDs on a regular big-screen TV. Granted, that will cost even more (several times, probably), but you can also use it for cable, and video games. I just can't see this stuff being in the range of the typical slashdotter.
Feel free to prove me wrong if y'all are a bunch of Mr. Moneybags', though
Toms Hardware constantly is doing reviews of monitors and such, and just released a new review of 19 monitors the other day
that are the Dell 2005FPW and the Apple Cinema Display. The Cinema Display may not fall in the £300-400 price range they're talking about but here in the US, you can certainly get the Dell for less than $500.
I just bought a Dell 2005FPW for $370 Cdn including taxes, which is their 20" Widescreen LCD with a coupon. They also had it available for $499 Cdn as well.
I own one the Dell 24" display (2405FPW), and I have to say it is one of the best purchases I have made in a long time. The thing looks gorgeous, didn't have any stuck pixels or anything like that, has a nice thin bezel, it has DVI, VGA, RGB, Componenent and S-Video inputs, allows you to do PIP and side-by-side of 2 inputs. It functions as a USB hub and a memory card reader. The stand is well-made and adjusts smoothly with a wide range of motion (including being able to rotate it 90 degrees). It's also $500 cheaper than the 23" Apple cinema display. Dell's computers may be ugly pieces of crap, but I really feel like it is an unbelievably good buy.
We also found that DVD playback in general didn't scale particularly well; moving from 720 x 576 to 1680x1050 requires what is essentially a 100% upscale.
What are they talking about here? The monitor shouldn't be handling DVD upscaling, it's done in software.
[i]...and you want to play the latest games[/i] It might be kind of hard to push those framerates at those widescreen resolutions, especially with maximum detail with anything less than a top of the line rig.
They do not review the Dell 24" in this story, but let me say I have been so pleased with mine. You can usually get up to 20-25% off from Dell if you do a google search for Dell coupons. You will not be sorry if you get that monitor and have a card that can support the native resolution (1920x1200). I have had no problems with games (BF2) or movies on it.
Every mainstream LCD monitor I have seen has very subtle hue or brightness changes with even very small changes in horizontal head position. Because of this each eye actually sees a slightly differently looking picture, due to the slightly different horizontal position of each eye relative to the monitor. This leads to what could be described as a "glare" effect. It subjectively appears like a glare, becaue it is similar to how a shiny surface appears in the sun, with different amounts of reflected rays hitting each eye. Perhaps I am particularly sensitive this as no one else seems to mention it. Then again most people don't raise concerns about the visual effects of 60hz refresh rates on CRT either.
-- ubersonic Kfz Versicherung
I recently purchased a Gateway FPD2185w 21" widescreen 1680x1050 monitor. It is AMAZING value. For about $500, I get a display with DVI-HDCP support, along with VGA, Component, S-video, and RCA inputs. Its got DCDi by Faroudja for flawless 1080i/480i deinterlacing, and top-notch scaling video processing with a 12ms response time. It looks fantastic with my PC via DVI, Xbox 360 via VGA, and Dish HD DVR via Component. Also, the customizable PiP options are very useful. Furthermore, when Vista comes out and the MPAA studios start implementing ICT on HD DVD/Blu-Ray discs, I won't have to buy a $300 Spatz HDCP stripper to view the full resolution 720p picture on my monitor.
Thread contribution - I have a 2005FPW that I love. I found a sale at Dell for $380 shipped, and they apparently repeat that periodically. It looks great and I love the integrated USB. I game on it a lot and I've never noticed any stuck pixels or ghosts.
Threadjack - Randomly and annoyingly it will just go blank. I power it off/on and it will come on for 3 seconds and go off again, like it's in a powersave mode. Sometimes unplugging AC power will fix it, sometimes not. Sometimes I have to reboot, sometimes not. Sometimes I power down and unplug everything...thats the most extreme and most annoying fix. The thing is, I may go a month without a problem then it will happen twice per day for a week. Video, display, XP, and Motherboard updates are current and the problem persists. AFAIK every power saving feature is shut off. Help!
Good grief, no wonder the rest of the world hates us.
I _live_ here and I hate us.
That's the exact same reason I don't use Calculus, not being an Egyptian nor a Greek myself.
No, that's the exact same reason you don't buy your papyrus back in the year 2000 BC.
At least for what I have been doing the widescreens suck.
Many games do not like them. C&C generals zero hour strecthes. Doom3 is slower in widescreen mode and older games simply hate them.
I instead took the monitor back and grabbed a pair of 19" AOC Lcd's for less money than the single Widescreen.
I also get much more realestate for video editing on the pair of 19" cheapies.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I've been using a 34 inch Syntax Olevia that I purchased six months ago for $1500 including shipping. It is awesome and compares to Sharp in quality.
I think I'll stick with 'artificial spec tests', far more accurate.
Why is that? A 19" CRT typically gets you more pixels than a 17" CRT, so why isn't the same true for LCDs? I'm sure I could buy find a higher-resolution model somewhere if I looked hard enough, but I'm really wondering why that seems to be the exception rather than the norm.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I remember paying $730 for a 17inch Sony CRT. A little before that, you could pay over 2k for a 21inch CRT. I could take that 730 dollars now and nearly pay for a 24inch widescreen dell. I am amazed at how relatively inexpensive they are today. A friend just got the 24inch dell, it is a gorgeous. I have a 1905FP, and was considering another, now I think I will go for the 24
Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.
But to some it was worth the 2 seconds of Schadenfreude from reading your post.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Who ever said that no monitors support hdcp are wrong. the newest models of the 24 inch dell lcd panel support dvi hdcp. So all you would need is a dvi to Hdmi adapter. We use regular dell lcd panels here and they are gorgeus. If it wasnt for the fact i just bought a 26 inch crt tv with hdmi hdcp ports i would have bought a 24 inch dell lcd widescreen display.
I just bought the 2405 and someone is coming to look at it soon as it is for sale and it is only days old. Beware that dell has a 15% restocking fee.
Make sure you like LCDs before you buy. They are very different than CRT.
I like a dim screen. The 2405 is very Bright, even at minimum settings. I tend to run my CRTs at minimum brightness so it hurts my eyes to use an LCD for long periods.
Viewing angle issues bother me a fair bit. Dark tones shift when only 20 degrees off axis. If you sit close to a 24" wide screen you are going to be off axis somewhere on screen. All MVA/PVA panels do this and they are most of the market. IPS panels seem much superior in this regard, but good luck finding one.
Some things you should try before you buy and this is one of them. 500cd brightness in a computer monitor is just insane. But it contributes to making that contrast number higher, but in no contributes to makeing a usable monitor.
Overall though, most people love this monitor. And there is a lot to love. It looks amazingly sharp, colorfull, black is deep, and it has connectivity for everything. Human factor of greater eye fatigue rule it out for me.
Nobody today should be buying LCDs without DVI (unless price is the only factor). Your eyes will thank you. (Don't have a DVI card yet? It's only a matter of time...)
you had me at #!
I have the 2005FPW on a 4port KVM and love it. I have a Friend that is going to buy my 2005FPW so I can get a 2405FPW. Anyone running a 2405FPW with an Analog KVM? DVI KVM's are pricey and most say they can't do 1920x1200. Any Ideas?
I recently purchased the 24" dell-
I don't own/am not buying a TV- here's why-
The Dell has TONS of inputs, and supports Picture in Picture on the inputs.
1)The dell has Composite video input. I currently have a VCR hooked up to it, and can watch TV on it.
2) I can hook video games up to it too, either through the composite, or if I get a VGA adapter through the Analog HD15 Monitor connection.
3) Combining the Monitor/TV functionality saves me space. I don't need to spend space in my apartment on another display (that is more limited in features)
This thing is bigger than many of my friend's TVs, so I see no real reason to go out and spend $300+ on a dedicated TV.
Add to that the fact that it includes a card reader (saved me from having to buy one) and a USB Hub.
Yes, it was an expensive purchase, but I feel that it was worth it.
How are monitors "ergonomic"? Is that a measure of how shapely it feels when I lose touch with reality, and caress it up while I watch porn?
space is pretty cool.
I'd hook up one device with the DVI input and one with the VGA. I do that with my desktop and laptop, and it works great. I have the base for my logitech wireless desktop plugged into the USB port on the side of the monitor so that I can easily pull it out and plug it into the laptop. I don't see any reason why a KVM wouldn't work fine with the VGA input, though...
I just ordered one of these babys from Newegg for $415, free 3-day shipping too.
Now I can get rid of my big old wood-burning monitor and get me some desktop space back.
Just had to share. Widescreen baby!
You can get a 24" Sony Trinitron GDM-FW900 Widescreen CRT. I still dislike LCDs for their single native resolution (which is fine, if thats your intended resolution) and their generally poor response times, particularly on the larger ones unless its real expensive. I got one of these babies for $375 (with free shipping!) on Ebay in excelent shape and its a really excelent picture (They're inteded as high-end graphics and video editing monitors) They have integrated BNC and VGA style connections which can be switched on the fly. Once I get my Xbox 360, its PC through the BNC connectors and the 360 through the VGA.
Unfortunately it weighs ~95lbs, but that does give the added benefit of keeping Godzilla at a safe distance.
Glöm inte inte vilka som var källan till era samhällen, våg efter våg efter våg...
Last I checked the UK gets pretty much the same stuff the US does so how is this article no good to someone in the states? I know this has been said but I want to thow mine in too. On a side note, also stated before calculus does have roots in Greece and Egypt. Though Newton is considered the "father" of calculus he was not the first peron to use it. Why do people in the US demeand everything be geared toward them? This is the reason when I travel I try to speak with a generic enough accent to not be labeled an American. I love my country but for the most part we have turned into a bunch of uneducated, whiney, egotistical, know it alls, a label I want nothing to do with.
WTF?
I have the Acer 1916W and for $300 I think this monitor is totally worth it. I use it as a second monitor to my Dell 1935FP (think thats the model - 19" standard). I'm running my DirecTV HD receiver on my 19" Dell but I am waiting for a cable to convert the HDMI to the VGA/DVI adapter.
I _live_ here and I hate us.
Great. Make the world a better place and walk off a cliff.
after rebate, not including shipping at places like Tiger Direct. Not ultra high res, but more than good enough at 1366 by 768 for most non-demanding work. They make for a fairly nice display. This is being typed on one of them. A second is on my floor waiting to replace my monitor on my windoze machine that I use for quote feeds, etc. Beats squinting at a small screen to see if the number in the last trade was an 8 or a 0.
These have come down by around 100 bucks since xmas. I suspect that as long as the tantalum supply holds up, you will see them continuing to come down in price.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/03/30/20_inc h_widescreen_monitors/7.html
If any of you have read this group test and came away disappointed that we compared every monitor except the one you're seriously considering ie Dell, then please do make your voices heard. Show the execs at Dell that you want to see bit-tech given the chance to review their displays. Head over to our Article Discussion forum and make some noise!
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
I think it's great that more games support widescreen resolutions, but I've wondered how that impacts multiplayer gaming. For example a lot of people play with fov in quake based games to see more on screen, but in turn some tournament servers would lock the fov to keep it a level playing field.
How is that addressed with widescreen resolutions, if at all?
Dell is selling the 2407, but only in Japan.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
News for American Nerds. American stuff that matters to Americans.
I run dual DVI with two 2405FPW's at 1920x1200 for both displays using a Matrox Millennium P750 and it works great. Make sure to update the firmware on the card to the latest rev. The card also supports portrait mode.
20 degrees? That's horrid. My 22" (now obsolete) Apple Cinema Display HD is way better than that. I sit close to the screen and never have such problems.
I can also turn down the brightness, and I do. Visitors comment on how dim my display is, so it really is quite dim.
You can't get this exact model anymore, but I hear the 30" display is nice...
Dells 24" is a Samsung PVA panel.
Apples 23" is an LG IPS panel (better panel type).
The vast majority of Dells are Samsung PVA panels with a couple of exceptions.
The vast majority of Apples are LG IPS panels.
I couldn't agree more, though I think it is too subtle for most people, but I recently sold my new 24" otherwise beautifull dell widescreen.
While they claim 170 degree vieing angles, they actually change tone with about 10-20 degrees, it creates a glare, or some other edge effect that almost seems to create a false 3d effect.
Anyway I wouldn't say All. IPS panels seem MUCH better with angles so it might not be so bad, but IPS panels are more expensive and most monitors are PVA/MVA which change drastically with small angles.
I am going back to CRT, but IPS panels might be worth considering.
Most of the Dells use Samsung LCD panels, assembled by Acer/Benq.
There are some exceptions. I think they even reserve the right to change the panels at a whim. I saw specs for dell LCD's that said TFT type: PVA/IPS. Implying whatever we get cheap.
One of the biggest differences in LCD is wether it has a PVA/MVA/IPS/TN panel. Personally I don't like the tone shifts of PVA/MVA panels and would pay extra for an IPS panel, but it is very difficult to find out when they are used.
I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't touch the monitor I just bought. NewEgg is selling them like hotcakes ($349 after rebate for a 20.1" LCD)
So far I'm pleased with it, and games seem fine, but I'd like to see how it holds up to other LCDs on a technical basis
Yeah, it's worst on the outer edges of the screen. The outer 10-20% of each horizontal side of the screen often looks a little darker or slightly different hue than the rest.