Slashdot Mirror
ESA to Send Spacecraft to Venus
teeto writes to tell us The International Herald Tribune is reporting that the European Space Agency is planning to send a spacecraft to peer at Venus." From the article: "If the robot craft pulls off the complex maneuver of slowing down enough to swing into orbit, scientists hope it will help solve the mystery of how the shrouded, churning atmosphere of Venus formed and how it maintains the planet's broiler-like temperatures."
Venus once had a thriving civilization, much like Earth, but they burned their fossil fuels and ruined their environment. DON'T BE LIKE VENUS!
No.
Could it simply be that during the Russian satellite development, the Soviets accidently left a solar powered microwave-oven without a door open causing a massive evaporation of all the water on the planet? Could be.
"To be is to do." -Socrates
"To do is to be." -Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do-be-do-be-do." -Frank Sinatra
I just noticed this now. There's a link that says "Change Format" on the left under the text ARTICLE TOOLS
It gives you a single column... like normal sites. I've always hated that side by side stuff.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
So let's send them all back!!!
What are you eating? isItVeg?.
"ESA to Send Spacecraft to Venus"? They already did, Venus Express launched on 2006-11-09, it arives at Veuns on Tuesday.
Is this article a bit late?
a reaid=64
See here:
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/area/index.cfm?f
The thing is due to achieve orbit in a few days.
Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
Wrap yourself in a thick blanket and stand next to the fireplace... Ill bet youll be pretty hot too!
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I think it's scarier that the Italinas are trying to find the origin of women.
If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
I just think that'd be incredible. Until everything melted.
Don't Hate, Gestate
Now that's some good engineering!
Don't Hate, Gestate
This AC comment seems to have been made in jest, but it got me thinking.
... )
Do we have any way of knowing how long Venus has been a runaway greenhouse? (That phrase, by the way, invokes a really bizarre mental image
Is it conceivable that the climate there went haywire within human history? Given the current pressure, temperature, and chemical composition of the atmosphere on Venus, is there any chance that any indications at all could have survived of a possible former ecosystem there?
Mars is fascinating for what it might have become. Venus is fascinating for what it might have been.
How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
Before we had grammar nazis.. now we have.. Tense Nazis!
(Actually I was thinking the same damned thing)
At least the ESA can probably convert from old timey to scientific measurements properly.
<Mission control> Spacecraft 1, you are currently 1300 rods from impact, at a fuel consumption rate of 4 7/16 hogshead per mile. Be advised.
<Spacecraft> WTF?!
What's an Italina?
This is just another dupe.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Huh, I guess now that the space rovers on Mars failed to find any men, the geeks over at NASA are wondering if they'll discover any specimens of so-called "girls" on Venus...
Who knows, after this we might even get to understand how they work...
Poor planet, can't people leave it alone. It's just minding its own business and here come some dudes probing it. Would you want that, your just bumming around and whamo! probe to the ass in the name of science.
Stop planet Abuse now!
As far as I am aware, we know a lot less about the surface of Venus than we do about the surface of Mars or say, Mercury, or even Pluto. Given that Venus is relatively close to us, it seems to make sense to go about exploring it - especially since our satellites can't peer through the thick atmosphere.
http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
Keep in mind that Venus averages a solar irradiance almost twice that of earth. Any water that would've existed in the planet would have boiled off to the upper atmosphere with the hydrogen getting carried off by the solar wind.
...how it maintains the planet's broiler-like temperatures.
Maybe we will get a peek at the finest SUVs in the solar system!
I read somewhere that Venus and Earth may have had similiar chemistries when both planets were created.
I know Earth had an atmosphere of Amomnia when it was first created. Perhaps Venus had this and the extreme had broke down the Amonia and combined the elements with sulfur and carbon dioxide to form its hellish atmoshpere?
I wonder if Earth will turn into another Venus when teh sun expands and begins to warm our planet up?
http://saveie6.com/
Check out http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_Venus.htm for an excellent archive of the Soviet exploration of Venus.
Venera 9 sent image telemetry for 50 minutes. It scanned 174 of the panorama from left to right, and then 124 scanning right to left.
They drilled, photographed, and used penetrometers on the surface. Each mission lasts a few hours to days before the atmosphere crumples the spacecraft like a soda can due to the pressure. Much different than life on Mars!
Space and Computers.
For an extra alternative view of how Venus was created, you should read Velikovsky's theory... :)
I thought they were looking for somebody new to surrender to!
Wouldn't it be wild if we'd come to earth hundreds of thousands of years ago from Venus, seeded only by "Adam and Eve" who were a bit like breeding Superman(s), while the Venusian civilization died, and the one on Earth began to rebuild from scratch?
Oh You POS
Flamebait? Oh come on, that was pretty funny.
Use your mod points to mod up, not down.
"What's an Italina?"
It's what I call Italians. Just my way of typing phonetically.
If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
The Final Countdown by Europe (1990)
We're leaving together
But still it's farewell
And maybe we'll come back
To Earth, who can tell
I guess there is no one to blame
We're leaving ground (leaving ground)
Will things ever be the same again
It's the final countdown...
The final countdown
Ooh oh
We're heading for Venus (Venus)
And still we stand tall
Cause maybe they've seen us
And welcome us all (yeah)
With so many light years to go
And things to be found (to be found)
I'm sure that we'll all miss her so
It's the final countdown...
The final countdown
The final countdown (the final countdown)
Ooh ooh oh
(interlude)
The final countdown
Ooh oh
I'ts the final countdown
The final countdown
The final countdown (the final countdown)
Ooh
It's the final countdown
We are leaving together
The final countdown
I've been reading Slashdot for years and while there's always a ton of comments in the Mars articles about how great it would be terraform that planet, no one ever mentions doing so to Venus.
... why, after comparing the two planets, do people focus on Mars? I'm asking an honest question. From my perspective, Mars has so little to work with. Venus has plenty -- too much in fact. But think about it. Humans have proven themselves pretty good at destroying atmospheres. They're not so good at creating them. And in the case of Mars, you need to create an atmosphere. But in the case of Venus, you need to destroy it. Doesn't this make Venus a more natural candidate for human endeavours?
... can't you get water out of that somehow? Crank things up with some additional hardware, and if you pull enough material out of the atmosphere, you start to reduce surface pressure.
Why??
I look at the gravity situation and I really can't understand why people focus on Mars. Really. Does anyone ever look at the surface gravity of Mars before they start talking about terraforming it? It's only 38% of Earth's! (Compare that with freaking Mercury at 28%, or even the Moon at about 17%. ) What are your bones going to be doing in that environment after a few years?
But take a look at the surface gravity on Venus: it's 90% of Earth's.
Sure, you've got atmospheric pressures at the surface 90 times greater than on Earth. And the temperature averages 460 degrees Celsius. The atmosphere is about 96% carbon dioxide, and about 3% nitrogen. Then you've got trace amounts of sulfuric acid (tasty!), chlorine, and fluorine.
But seriously
Surely there's a chance that, with our slowly evolving understanding of organisms that survive around deep-sea volcanic vents, and our ever-evolving ability to tweak natural organisms, that we could devise some kind of bacteria that could thrive on Venus and start capturing the carbon from the atmosphere. There's so much for it to work with there. All that tasty carbon dioxide! And hey, H2SO4
And then there's that beautiful surface gravity.
Have I mentioned the surface gravity and how it's so close to that found here on Earth, unlike Mars?
I'm sure plenty of people far smarter than I ever will be have considered Venus and dismissed the idea after a few seconds of thought. But why? And why is Mars, with such wimpy gravity and such a scarce existing atmosphere given all the attention when it comes to dreams of terraforming?
Where's the love and the dreams for Venus?
Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
Considering how good their track record is on Mars, I am not surprised they are going to Venus.
Do we have any way of knowing how long Venus has been a runaway greenhouse? (That phrase, by the way, invokes a really bizarre mental image ... )
Almost from the get go. From what I've read, Venus has simply way, way too much Carbon Dioxide. Carl Sagan's romantic plan of seeding Venus with bacteria to eat up the CO2 simply fails because there is way too much CO2. To get Venus straightened out for human habitation, you would have flat out get rid of something like 89 parts out of 90 in the Venutian atmosphere, and there's really no place to put that much air. There've been some proposals to freeze it into giant CO2 chunks and launch them into space, or, slam some kind of an asteroid or even planet into Venus to jack the air into space, but both are so far beyond our technology as to be unimaginable. There's also not enough of other gasses in Venus's atmosphere - you really need a lot of nitrogen or something like it, like, well, the Earth has.
Then again, the Earth has an aweful of lot of Carbon Dioxide in the oceans and the limestone.... maybe we could all be doomed.
Is it conceivable that the climate there went haywire within human history? Given the current pressure, temperature, and chemical composition of the atmosphere on Venus, is there any chance that any indications at all could have survived of a possible former ecosystem there?
Well, there's one famous Internet crackpot that swears he sees Zeppelins on Venus and there are people there...and NASA is covering it up. But, outside of that, I think Venus has always been dead. Venus has a lot of problems even besides the grueling atmosphere. It has a long rotational period and lacks a magnetosphere.
As far as the earth goes, the most spectacular environment catastrophe posited is Snowball Earth. Basically, the entire Earth was frozen over with a sheet of ice two miles thick, everything died and there was no oxygen in the atmosphere, for a period of a few hundred million years. It was a rough time, but, ironically, the Earth was saved by an accumulation of 350 times our present level of CO2.
What's really interesting about Earth's past is that the atmospheric composition has varied rather wildly. It is not at all automatic that we have 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen and then some other gasses. I have no idea how they infer atmosphere, but it must have something to do with chemicals found in rocks and knowledge of how those chemicals must have been made, coupled with radioactive dating. Incidentally, the overall portion of CO2 in the air is rather small, something like 0.04% (and going up). For all the talk about whether the CO2 is manmade or not, or whether it causes global warming, some facts are most certainly known. First, the CO2 level has doubled in a 100 years, and when a planet wide change happens that fast, you really do have to have cause for concern. All sorts of questions need to be asked, but the big one is, is the rate of doubling changing? Like, will we double it again in 50 years, then 25 again, and so on? I think we only need to double the atmosphere not too many times before we all die.
This is my sig.
Venus rotates on it's axis once every 243 Earth days. One Venusian day (sunrise to sunrise) is 117 Earth days. It also gets a hell of a lot more radiation than the Earth.
My guess, if it had oceans, the 59 days of straight sunlight would cause them to boil away. With the oceans gone, the surface would bake and scorch sending more gases into the air.
And then read Carl Sagans,"Broca's Brain", for a rebuttal. Both books are out of date.
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
http://www.sunspiritgallery.com/images/venus.jpg
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
And we'll probably be heading to Mars next. We'll have to 'ascend to a higher plane' to move on from there, I suspect.
Wouldn't it be wild if we'd come to earth hundreds of thousands of years ago from Venus, seeded only by "Adam and Eve" who were a bit like breeding Superman(s), while the Venusian civilization died, and the one on Earth began to rebuild from scratch?
Wild, dude. BTW, pass that bong to me when you're done with it....
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
...the European Space Agency is planning to send a spacecraft to peer at Venus.
It is only me, or are they takeing this 'hidden webcams of nudes women' thing a little too far? Plenty of that stuff on the net already, NASA, go do some science instead. Sheesh.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Haven't these scientists seen Night of the Living Dead
The Discovery Science channel is running a special, "Venus Unveiled", about the planet and this ESA program. It airs several times during the next 2 weeks.
s p?episode=0&cpi=117536&gid=0&channel=SCI
http://science.discovery.com/tvlistings/episode.j
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
After yesterdays article about blue rings around everyones favoritely named planet, I accidentily read this articles title as "ESA sends space craft to peer at Uranus."
Thank god I double checked, the idea of huge phalic shaped rocket being launched towards myanus at high speed did not sound appealing to me!
Scott Swezey
Venus is female. Send a spaceship to suck.
Mars is male. When you get to Mars, switch from suck to blow.
When the sun starts to expand, Earth evaporates.
Don't you see? This is all a plot by those liberal Europeans to ram their Venus into Uranus!
Unless of course your goal is to make it somewhat resistant to any men who cost about 67 million pesos, in which case do not pressurize it beforehand ...
I always knew there was something a little homoerotic about DC Comics. And the Bible.
What's "runaway" or "haywire" about Venus's climate? I thought it was in equilibrium. It's stable, is it not?
Cripple fight!
Looking at Venus and Earth, it seems global warming could actually have a positive side if you look at the right situation...
Quick! Everyone to Mars! Get those factories a-spewin'!
It's always confirmation bias!
Trying to get to uranus are we? Ya FAG!!!
You would think before taking on a semi-hard science fiction story set in the near future he would have actually thought to talk to an engineer. Just one. None of his characters would live a day in the woods, much less on mars.
I can suspend my disbelief about most any premise for a story But:
A mars colony that was recruited from the parking lot at a 'Gratefull Dead' show (4+ hours after the show ended)?
A mars colony built with robotic equipment sent from earth, plus for bonus, an orbital teather (10^12 dollars or more before I put the book down)?
A frontier society that finally 'gets it together' and makes socialism work dispite evil capitalists (they want something for their 10^12 dollars)?
The capitalists bothering to take down the teather (why bother, hippies would be eating each other in six months)?
Off topic I know. Those books really really stink. Goodby karma as his fans mod me down.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
n/t
If I recall correctly, at least one of the books contains an acknowledgements section that lists the scientists consulted.
The reason for needing this kind of effort to cool the Space Station, even thought it's in the "very cold" environment of space, is that while the temperature of space is very low, the thermal capacity of space is also very low. That is, there's just very, very little of any cold matter around to which you can transfer heat, the way your body transfers heat to winter air when you step outside in December. You can radiate heat as infrared radiation, of course, but to be efficient this requires a lot of surface area for the volume being cooled. And yet, of course, when you build spaceships you tend to want to minimize the surface area for a given volume -- i.e. build compact shapes.
Furthermore, in space the wretched Sun is radiating huge gobs of light and heat at you 24 hours a day. Got to get rid of that, too.
The capitalists didn't take down the tether, the revolutionaries did. Read the relevant portion of Red Mars again.
But...why is having roughly 1g of gravity worth the enormous trouble of coping with pressures comparable to those at the bottom of the ocean? And temperatures so high in a corrosive atmosphere that only special and expensive building materials could stand it?
What's wrong with having only a third of a gee or so of gravity? From the point of view of building structures, it's a boon. You have enough gravity to keep stuff in place, and allow conventional building techniques (unlike in orbit), but you can make your trusses and beams slimmer, 'cause they don't have to carry as much weight. You can build out of polystyrene instead of steel, so to speak.
Furthermore, from the pressure point of view, you only have to keep 1 atm of good stuff (breathable air) in, and a few small leaks just mean you need to replenish your air faster, whereas on Venus you need to keep 90 atom of bad stuff (highly toxic air) out, and small leaks mean corrosive poison gas in your breathing air. Ugh.
Not to mention on Mars you can see what you're doing, communicate to orbit with lasers, do a little astronomy, and enjoy the night-time sky, while on Venus you live at the bottom of the worst possible eternal gray pea-soup fog.
Finally, people think there might be life left on Mars, and there's certainly little doubt if we brought life with us it could survive there, while Venus is just completely intolerable to life due to the extreme temperatures.
That's not to say Mars doesn't have problems. The biggest, I suggest, is actually radiation, since Mars has no ozone layer to shield against UV, and no magnetic field to speak of to shield against cosmic rays. You'd not want to stand under the open sky on Mars for very long without good radiation shielding, I think.
The Soviets sent probes to Venus a while back and retured pictures. Color pictures in the visible spectrum.
m
It has a horizon and due to the extreme fisheye it is perhaps difficult to tell just how far the horizon is, but it appears to be perhaps 10 meters or a bit more.
http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_DigitalImages.ht
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
That proves it. Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus.
Uh, if the men are from Mars and the women from Venus, how did they end up here on Earth? Possibly each was sent here by whoever else lives on Mars and Venus, respectively.
Apparently we humans are rejects from two worlds...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith_(moon)
/tin foil hat
up until the 1800s venus was observed as having a moon or at least an object following it closely. considering that it gets almost as close as 100 lunar distances to us does anyone think that maybe someone was parked there watching us?
Does anyone else think it's a happy coincidence that the Earth day is 24 hours long, and that humans work on a 24 hour day pattern?
It's very fortuitious.
Get your own free personal location tracker
Your mean, like, normal people, like the people who went to the moon?
A mars colony built with robotic equipment sent from earth, plus for bonus, an orbital teather (10^12 dollars or more before I put the book down)?How else would you build it? We are planning a tether on Earth now, which is at least three times as hard.
A frontier society that finally 'gets it together' and makes socialism work dispite evil capitalists (they want something for their 10^12 dollars)?Why not? This is fiction.
The capitalists bothering to take down the teather (why bother, hippies would be eating each other in six months)?I have no idea what you mean by this.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I'm afraid you got it wrong, dude, they're not planning, it's already there.
Now if posters don't even read their own articles... ;-)
You just got troll'd!
Is it conceivable that the climate there went haywire within human history? Given the current pressure, temperature, and chemical composition of the atmosphere on Venus, is there any chance that any indications at all could have survived of a possible former ecosystem there?
There is no evidence that Venus climate has changed recently. But the planet may undergo extreme resurfacing periodically due to the apparent lack of plate tectonics and high heat flow. The surface may liquify every few 100 Myr. This widespread uniform melting obliterates any geologic signature that precedes it. It also contributes to enormous outgasing of the mantle.
an ill wind that blows no good
Yeah, it seems God knew what He was doing afterall.
My way back has been erased.
Actually, I seem to recall reading back in freshman Psych (umpty-leven years ago) of a study that showed that people who are deprived of environmental cues to the time of day tend to settle into a 27- to 28-hour pattern of activity. (Can't seem to find any links to such a study at the moment, though, so it's entirely possible I'm misremembering. Or maybe I just need sleep.)
How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
To the best of my knowledge, yes, it is stable. I didn't mean to suggest that it wasn't. However, the phrase "runaway greenhouse" is one I've seen used (by various journalists, popularizers of science, and scientists themselves) to describe Venus's atmosphere -- often in articles or books that use it to caution against Terran global warming; these articles generally ignore or at least downplay the myriad other huge differences between Earth's atmospheric chemistry and density, insolation levels, albedo, etc.
And all I meant by "went haywire" was to inquire as to the possibility that Venus's climate had perhaps been different -- more friendly to (our Terran conception of) life, perhaps -- and had changed for some reason in a way that made it so brutally hostile to life. Perhaps there is good reason to think that it has been so almost since its formation; I confess I don't know enough about planetary science to know what the evidence is either way.
How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
One earth 98% of the carbon is in carbonates. It takes millions of years for changes in plate tectonic subduction volcanics (release) and oceanic PH (capture) to really significally affect this.
Venus's atmosphere has ninety times the CO2 as does earth. Its not know whether Venus has much in the way of carbonate rocks. But if it doesnt have plate tectonic and ocean to recycle the carbon, its probably not much.
constant surface temperature of 870 degrees Fahrenheit with crushing atmospheric pressure a hundred times greater than on the Earth's surface.
Quite True, indeed
rajmohan_h@yahoo.com
Expensive Hardware Lobbing
Venus had a commanding lead early on, but has now fallen behind.
See that "Preview" button?
So, increase the rotation. Gosh, do I have to think of everything?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Was that a joke? It's sometimes hard to tell on /.
The reason we're adapted to a 24 hour day is because earth has always had a 24 hour rotation period (more or less anyway, since IIRC it's slowed down slightly over many millions of years). It's simple evolutionary biology - we have X time per day to take advantage of, and thus we have become adapted to that many. If earth had a 40 hour day, we'd have adapted to that instead.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Sooner or later it had to be said.
Blah blah Uranus, blah blah Klingons.
Spacecraft can't afford to vent matter to keep cool, otherwise for example you could run a nice efficient liquid cooling system which just continually vents liquid into space.
In the case of Venus, we have the luxury of actually wanting to get rid of a large amount of the atmosphere. That's the physics taken care of - the rest is just technology. And don't bother me with implementation details, I just do the big thinking!
It'd be rather disturbing actually. Think of how much better we could have been without hundreds of thousands of years of incest.
Terraforming Venus seems hard at the moment only because folks are talking about simple chemical and biological methods. The volume of reactants that would be needed is just too large, even if just they're merely catalysts.
... but it sure as hell will give you many more options than pure chem and bio.
But molecular nanotechnology (which doesn't exist yet, admittedly, but has secure foundations) is based on the idea of self-replication, so the collosal amounts that would be required would arise rather simply and very rapidly through the exponential effect of each generation of machines building the next.
And it certainly isn't hard to imagine ways in which nanotech could start going about it.
For example, the biggest problem on Venus is the huge blanket of CO2, but that contains the root of its own solution too. The carbon could be the raw material for building machines that build cages to enclose the freed oxygen and thus lock down the atmosphere into solids. Obviously it's a bit more difficult than that --- eg. you'd probably want to keep most of the imprisoned CO2 in its original form, as pure oxygen isn't a nice thing to keep around in large quantities.
Nanotech won't rewrite thermodynamics
Actually, I seem to recall reading back in freshman Psych (umpty-leven years ago) of a study that showed that people who are deprived of environmental cues to the time of day tend to settle into a 27- to 28-hour pattern of activity. (Can't seem to find any links to such a study at the moment, though, so it's entirely possible I'm misremembering. Or maybe I just need sleep.)
The study was partially discreditted, something about certain exstrenal ques giving them a pattern of 27.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
By the article it would suggest that the Earth has Venus Envy.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Another piece of evidence for Intelligent Design. Take *that*, Science!
What's even more wild is how your quote of my idea got +5 funny while my post languished without moderation. I think the Mods are bogarting that bong...
/me tokes.
/me tokes again and passes.
Wilder yet, what if there's been civilizations before our current one? Homosapiens is estimated to be what, up to 300k years old and the oldest sigs we have of civilizations past are piles or rubble that was a city 8k years ago. Say there was a huge, thriving civilization 50k years ago? There would be nothing left of it by now. Who knows what wonders could lie in our distant past?
All rites reversed 2010
An Earth day has no always been 24 hours long (and will not remain so). Orbital interaction with the moon is gradually slowing down the rotation of the planet, and increasing the length of a day. Most estimates put the original rotation period of Earth at closer to 14 hours.
So basically, only reason humans are "24 hour cycle" creatures is because this is the environment that we evolved in. As the day lengthens (assuming we're still here), we'll adapt to that as well.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Thank you so very much for reminding me of that song.
It took me four years off and on to purge it from my cerebral cortex with a Brillo pad. All for naught.
I hope RuPaul covers this song someday, and that the new version haunts you to the end of your days, like a curiously tall diva wailing in the eternal night.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
"I read somewhere that Venus and Earth may have had similiar chemistries when both planets were created."
Basic theory is that water could have existed on Venus because back then the sun was young and not so bright. As the sun got brighter on it's way to achieving it's main sequence state, the increased radiation boiled Venus because it was much closer to the Sun than the Earth.
In a few billion years the same ought to happen to the Earth as it grows to red giant size.
It is only fitting, that we explore Mars, while the Europeans try for Venus.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I had that feeling too. I got flashbacks of Wallace and Gromit.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Incest incest, it's the best! Put your sister to the test!
methinks the gpp just agrees with Cartman about hippies.
So why did you foe me? I'm keeping track of all the various reasons why I am foed. Care to submit yours?
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
A short answer would have sufficed, but since you gave a long one I'll answer a the points. For the record, I'm summarizing you as objecting to my politics.
1) Regarding the pitiful understanding of the economics based on my sig - Not true. I am completely aware that my comment is inaccurate economically. The purpose of it is rhetorical. It's meant to irritate conservatives. So, your assumption that I don't understand the economics isn't right on that point, but if you want to avoid presentations of liberal thought, which I will spare you here, it was probably a correct choice to foe me. I probably do say a lot of things which would irritate you far more.
2) I was already pretty certain that I wasn't foed because of the Ubuntu thing, though I noticed quite a lot of heat around that in your history. I'm a Debian guy. Don't give two shits about Ubuntu.
I do find it amusing that you bitch about people modding you down because they disagreed with you, but you foe me because you don't want to read something that you disagree with. I find it doubly amusing that I think music pirates should be shot at dawn for stealing music. Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about it. You SHOULD foe me, because I'm a rotten bastard. I've even written journal entries explaining that since I'm such a rotten bastard anyone who has me as a friend should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Wow, you're certainly a premature ejaculator!
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!