Slashdot Mirror
Abandoned Games
Ghost Pig writes "The people of Exiled Gamers have put together an Abandonware Campaign with which they hope to be able to convince game publishers to rescue titles from their current 'Abandonware' status, and make them available for the public to play (legally) once again. They have made mention of quite a few titles that have slipped into the status of Abandonware (titles that it's no longer possible to buy at retail, and that are near impossible to locate on sites such as eBay), which includes System Shock 2, Freespace 2, as well as older titles, such as The Chaos Engine, Alien Breed and Flashback."
But isn't freespace 2 an open source sequel/clone to freespace 1?
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
Personally I'd rather they left them in the "grey" area or released them as freeware. Quite often I've played a game left for dead, found it to be really worth it and hence became a fan of the company. I'd like to hope others have done this as well and hence we're all found some new games and new intrests.
I tend to pirate games I can't get any other way. If I could buy them then I woukd, but with the current market there just isn't space on the shelves for older games and the retailers would make no money off them so wouldn't even want to stock them.
Leave them where we can get them for free. That way we can check out the history and decide if the latest one would be worth investing in or not.
I like muppets.
If memory serves, Abadon was the name of a demon (major or minor I am not sure) - so whats going on here? Are they talking about porting these games to *BSD or something?
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Abandonware isn't a legal term; it means nothing. Just because the company hasn't done anything with their game doesn't mean they aren't entitled to enforce their copyright. Morally, we could discuss it ad nauseum. Technically, however, it's illegal to distribute such games.
Just like all the old arcade games, these will be preserved by users like us. As for being available legally, I don't see any company really caring. Look at all those Mame games floating around.
http://religiousfreaks.com/No. It's not legal. It's just a law that isn't enforced much, in that most copyright holders of really old games don't bother chasing up abandonware sites, since it's not exactly a huge revenue loss.
Some do, notably Sierra and Lucasarts, though.
Two things about "abandonware".
One companies do revive some of that material. Just look at what Atari did with their classics.
Two doesn't anyone shop used anymore? I saw Freespace for sale yesterday in a boxed set with another game.
Freespace 2 was a commercial game, produced by the same people as Freespace 1. Several years later the source code to the engine was released.
But what about threat of lawsuit??
Ben
Your understanding of the current law is flawed. Now, personally, I'd favour a situation where as a precondition for maintaining a copyright monopoly the copyrighted work _has_ to be made available at a reasonable price* (i.e. "kept in print" if it's a book), or the monopoly is lost... but that's not what the law says at the moment.
* since copyright monopolies are distortions of the free market, it should be unsurprising further price-fixing market meddling is required to counterbalance them somewhat, it shouldn't be left up to the copyright monopoly holder to set an arbitrary asking price.
A plug for one of my favourite games — Dink Smallwood. Two years after the game was published, it was "On 10-17-1999 released the game as freeware, no ad-ware, no spyware and no strings attached." Now that's an example to follow!
;)
That was one cool and wicked game, and because they included the source of the original game (the map, etc; not the engine, IIRC), I was able to recompile the game so that I started with 500 Strength, 50000 money, etc and have lots of fun
You should check it out, it's the funniest (in a wicked sort of way) RPG I've ever played.
I'd love to get my hands on Vib Ribbon or Rez.
Which statutes support your claims? Or are you just making this up? Go on - proove your claims.
I'd much rather have the source code to those games, as opposed to having them go on sale again. You know why? Because when the companies who own those games decide to stop selling them (again) you'll have to go right back and beg for them to sell them (again). If they release the source not only will you be able to obtain it whenever you want, but you can port the code to play on modern systems (meaning you don't need the silly hack of emulators or having an old DOS machine sitting about).
Open Source: Ensuring that my kids don't have to listen to Dad tell the same "Oh man, when I was your age I played this great game, but we'd need to find an old binary and a goddamn 60 year old computer to play it..." story over and over again.
Losing information is serious business. Games are quickly becoming part of our shared culture. Think of how much our culture loses by losing those games to time? I can still read ancient Greek and Arabic poetry but I can't play Master's of Orion on my PPC Linux box? I don't know, something seems really fucked up about that.
What if the entire Universe were a chrooted environment with everything symlinked from the host?
No it doesn't unless the copyright holder says so or relinquishes the copyright. However, for many of these old games the copyright holders seem to have no interest it pursuing the infringements. I guess this is either because they see it as harmless or the potential reward for enforcing is too little to justify it.
Abandonware is illegal but whether its ethical is more complex.
A lot of old games were really nice. The one in that list that really stood out to me was Flashback. I played for ever just to beat it, and it was among the first games I really liked. That along with Another World were really fun games. A few other not noted in the list at the site are the "Space Quest" series (Space Quest 1 was *awesome*! First game where "lick ground" was a valid command!), the "Kings Quest" series, and also the "Quest for Glory" series (Though it's not fun being killed completely randomly by bees.) All fun games, and really entertaining. Comparing them to some games these days will make some say "They really don't do it like they used to". Games these days are a lot more graphics centric.
All of those games will be perfect if recoded and released for the DS or PSP. they all are very suitable for small screen formfactor and with a little reprogramming can even add decent features such as Save and autosave to make them even more enjoyable.
These companies are pretty much morons for not trying to squeeze more out of their games that sold well from the past and these portables are the perfect place for them.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Well, EA recently renewed the trademarks on System Shock 3.... although they have probably done this just to sit on it (and stop fan made successors?). AFAIK the IP relating to the SS series is owned by different companies (this was in an interview on one of the SS fan sites).
Bioshock the spiritual successor to the SS series, so we'll just have to see how that lives up to expectations when it comes out.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Speaking of abandonware, there is also the option of taking the old DOS game and optimize it for current hardware and OS:
h tm
On April 14th 2006, a Windows XP/ME/2000/98 version of Another World, with high-resolution support and more detailed background graphics, was released as a tribute to the original game on the Another World website. The port is shareware; to unlock the full version, a special key must be bought from here for 7 euros.
You can download it from:
http://www.anotherworld.fr/anotherworld_uk/index.
Donkey Kong.. yeah, that game never amounted to much. *cough*
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
Abandonware is NOT legal to copy around as it's NOT legally public domain.
Something goes into the public domain when:
1) The rights owner explicitly places it there.
2) The rights duration expires.
Unless either of those two happens, it's still Copyrighted and the rights to publish (i.e. make and distribute copies) belongs to the rights holder or their successors in interest.
It's infringement, through and through. What the "abandonware campaign" seeks to do is to get the status changed on those titles or get a publishing permission so that they can be distributed legally under whatever conditions they can manage to get the rights holders to grant distribution rights on.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Another World (aka Out Of This World in the US), a technological predecessor to Flashback and a great, mythical game on its own, lost its abandonware status a few days ago when a High Resolution Collector's Edition was released by its author, Eric Chahi. It is currently being sold online for 7 euros, a demo is available. You can also play the official Gameboy Advance port, if you have an emulator or a flashable game cartridge.
h tm
= us
a nworld.inc
Official Website (still being translated; download links at the bottom of the page)
http://www.anotherworld.fr/anotherworld_uk/index.
Official Website in French (lots of very interesting details about the making of the game)
http://www.anotherworld.fr/
Buying the Game
http://www.magic-productions.fr/aw/index.php?lang
Official Gameboy Advance Port
http://www.foxysofts.com/index.php?l=content/gba/
An Excellent Review (from an excellent site)
http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=13
An Excellent Interview (from same site)
http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=44
. . . aren't going to be interested in releasing for free old games that might diminish the desire for the purchase of new games (or in the case of arcade/console classics, repurchase of the same games). The effectively perpetual copyrights of these programs have mostly passed to companies with interest in selling current games--the occasional and lauded freeware release of an old game will continue to be rare as hens' teeth.
Abandonware in general is not legal, at least the way the term is often used.
The only situation where you can truly expect it to be legal is when the company holding the copyrights went belly-up and even then you would need to find out whether anyone bid for the copyrights.
You could try to construct a moral or legal argument involving abandonded property, but a bona fide effort to find out whether the holder of the copyrights really gave up his rights might involve approaching the holder with an offer of 1 million bucks if he sold you a copy. I guess no-one would go to these lengths.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
It's not legal. It's just that most publishers aren't going to bother doing anything about it, and that's not guaranteed.
"Just because the company hasn't done anything with their game doesn't mean they aren't entitled to enforce their copyright."
While generally true, this is not absolute. Laches can (and will) apply in some circumstances.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
This is sort of what happened with my favorite game: Continuum / Subspace.
= Downloads&
:-)
Subspace was one of the first massive multiplayer games for the internet... I played it first in 1995 with a 24k modem... and I continue playing it year after year, still my favorite game.
Virgen Interactive released the game after it gave up on selling it (I guess it was too much ahead of times). The most popular client for it is Continuum.
Download Continuum / Subspace clients at:
http://www.subspacedownloads.com/
http://www.trenchwars.org/Trench/index.php?action
Give it a try & join the hundres of players online!
I hope other abandoned games can find such a future as this Virgen abandoned product.
...what they're trying for. Unless I have an actual friend that has it, I can't legally obtain the data to PLAY it on my Linux machine, as much as I'd like to do so. What they're trying to do is get the license grant ammended so that it's legit under specific circumstances (i.e. You can't make money off of it, you can resell it, etc...) to distribute the game data with the Open Sourced engine or FOR the same.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Even if a publisher would want to release one of these old games, they may not be able to due to contractual obligations or practical considerations.
For instance they may have to pay royalties to the developer or licence fees for a software component or trademark for every copy distributed (even if for free). This is particularly troublesome if the party to pay is now defunct or if the current owner of the rights is unknown or disputed. The original contracts may even be missing.
If there was serious money involved they could perhaps be compelled to sort such issues out, but since that isn't the case, most publishers really don't want to go through all the hassle.
A damn shame for sure, but that's just the way things are.
In fact it should be applied to other software, Applications like earlier versions of autocad. The company I work for has license for software that runs within the autocad software, however of the two licenses only one was upgraded to run in newer version of autocad.The non-upgraded license requires an earlier version of autocad. This autocad license did not transfer with the purchase of the assets of a bankruptcy from which the company I work for, obtained. But the license for the other software did.
Ultimately by not forcing, or trying to force people to upgrade in the game of license shuffeling the software industry might just get a wakeup call as to what the consumers really want.
maybe the consumer was doing just fine with what software they were using or maybe they really needed different improvements overall that didn't break what they were fine with.
The company I work for could make use of a legal 2000 version of autocad. but apparently its abandoneware to force upgrading of software packages that includes software autodesk doesn't own or sell.
And thats not supportive of consumer choice.
The neverhood? Hugo? Those were my two favourite games as a kid....I beat the neverhood in 3rd grade, hows that for impressive? That game was designed for college students.
To each his own.
It looks like more and more "abandoned" games are being ported to mobile devices, the low resolution, low power of which is a good match to the capabilities of the computers they were developed on, that many years ago.
Check this page for example:
http://www.magic-productions.fr/mobile_games.php
Currently, it mostly contains classical Amiga titles, ported to Symbian-compatible phones. I guess in a couple of years it will also contains PC games from the mid-nineties, as mobile devices keep improving.
If I was owning the rights to a famous computer game of yore, I sure would be very cautious, today more than ever, not to miss an opportunity to license it again. Today is a bad day for abandonware.
It's not legal to distribute "abandonware". Abandonware is nothing more than a name for really old "warez". It's in no way a legal form.
Monkeys aren't donkeys! Quit messing with my head!
Please, please republish Close Combat 3! Its still the best from the series!
opened and updated to run on OSX. It's the best Mac Tetris I have found. I like Quinn, but it lacks the cow. you old TetrisMax fans know what I am talking about.
One underdog I loved to play was Gene Wars.
For those who don't know it, it is about growing funghi to feed your creatures, which you can cross-breed into pretty weird variations. It is cool and was only much later followed up by games like Impossible Creatures.
There were two things that might have kept the game from being more popular:
- The screen is very small and displays only a few creatures (fine at the time, but annoying later, when 1024x768 was standard)
- There is no strict mission progress or thread to follow. This makes the game very boring for those who like to operate under stress and time pressure. I found it interesting to find ways to entertain myself, but YMMV
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
I'm pretty sure Dark Sun 1 and 2 are officially abandonware, but I want more! Since everyone reads Slashdot : over the years I've been working on and off in reverse engineering them in order to make an open source client, to play them in modern machines. It would be excellent to find anyone working on this same project, or even better, an original dev or someone who has or knows who has the rights to the source (if it isn't lost forever).
The other games I loved and I'd like to see in a new edition (hardware accelerated, for example) are Twinsen's Adventure and Twinsen's Oddysey. Anyone has or knows who has the rights? After so many acquisitions I kinda lost the track.
My website
A great developer did a full engine for Flashback in SDL, it's called REminiscence, and it even supports the MOD files from the Amiga version. His version works out of the box on Windows and Linux/BSD/etc.. I also ported the same program to Mac OS X so while it's not trivial to get the data files, it's at least playable on all major platforms.
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
as far as i know freescape2 as an unique and quite interesting license, something like this in the EULA:
"if you've brought this game you are entitled to make copy for your friends"
Aye.. I can see you've played Monkey-Donkey before.
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
Made by DC True, this game really sticks in my mind. Recently the Superpower series has resumed the theme, but Shadow President was the original. I still have the instruction booklet but over the years I have misplaced the 5 1/4" floppy.
In the early 90's I remember seeing Shadow President 2 on CD.
You've never gotten to the donkey level? You obviously really suck at the game then...
This guy's the limit!
Surprised no one has commented, but HotU is currently down and has been for a while, looking at it's wikipedia article. Does anyone know what's going on anymore, since even www.the-underdogs.info is down.
My UID is prime... is yours?
Apogee (now going by 3D Realms) have released a bunch of their old game for free: Here
.iso s and a CD-R drive. Take your own disc (or buy one from the desk) put it in, put a few pounds/dollars in, choose your disc and burn away - it could even have a lightscribe drive to put a line-art version of the original disc art onto it. (or it could have a printer to print a sticky label and a copy of the license agreement).
.iso of a disc and a pdf file of the manual (which would be included in the disc image). With the beauty of broadband internet, or just DVD discs to be copied onto the machine, it wouldn't be all that hard to keep updating the catalogue available in the machine.
I'm now going to suggest something that I suggested at least a year ago and is even more feasible now:
CD burning stations in game stores. It need not be bigger than any of those displays which have a working playstation or whatever in them for people to use, so wouldn't take up more sales space than stores as used to giving up with those machines.
It would basically be a computer with a huge wad of storage space filled with game disc
All it needs from the game companies is their consent, the
Easy as pie.
FGD 135
These days there seems to be a lot of remake projects for abandonware games as well – one of my favorites is Ultimate Stunts, which is developing a GPL'd, OpenGL-based, 3-D version of the classic DOS "Stunts" game. Obviously not all the remakes are good ones – and it would take forever to remake every single abandonware game – but I'd have to say this one's coming along really nicely, and they've actually managed to create a good-looking game that has real gameplay, and not just graphics (well, a lot of it's still in development but from what I've seen it's rather faithful to the original) – something that most game developers today still don't understand!
Getting back to the topic, though, I'd have to say that some of the remake projects really are worth checking out – not all, but there are a few that are totally worth it. That way, not only will you have to worry about abandonware and licensing issues, but you also don't have to worry about backwards compatibility issues and limited resolution and all that other stuff you deal with when playing 80's games.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to re-build my 486 so I can finally beat all those old shareware DOS games I've collected over the years – long live actually challenging puzzles!!
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
When I bought my copy of SYstem Shock 2 on ebay a year ago, it took me all of 15 minutes from "Hey, I wonder if I could find that game on ebay" to clicking the buy it now button. $10 including shipping and it was in my hands a week later. I still play it regularily.
Freespace 2 was even easier, I actually found it in a used game/movie store for $5.
I can easily say that those two are my favourite games I have ever played.
And even with a lot of the code and content ripped out of it (like the music) for copyright reasons, and despite not being under the GPL, it still has a fair number of people modding and improving it. If you aren't going to make money on a property anyway, the good will from such a gesture could help your other products.
This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
Making the code available isn't usually a path you can easily take unless you plan for it up front. Even the Netscape guys had a lot of work to do before they could release Mozilla as open source. I think the best thing to do for these old software packages is emulate the old hardware. MAME and its ilk are what's going to keep 1980s arcade games alive forever: not source code. Same applies for PC abandonware. In the best cases, the emulator maintainers will get permission to distribute the abandonware binaries with the emulator, as happens in a few rare instances now.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
Personally, I'm looking for a copy of redneck rampage. Yes, it was a stupid game, but I've never laughed so hard at an FPS before in my life.
I liked the EOB series a lot. Not only it immersed you into the dungeons (the Skeleton Warriors level on EOB2 was creepy!) with the lack of background music and the sound effects (has anyone noticed that Silent Hill uses exactly the same technique?), it also provided a very good story with subquests here and there.
I've been searching for clones or an open source engine for this kind of game, with no success. But I'm glad this game was listed.
I can understand some of the other mis-spellings, but "abadoned"?
Ironically, Abadon is the hebrew word for "Ruin, destruction". So the "Abadoned" games would be actually be the recycled ideas and sequels with few hours of play we've been buying at suborbital prices.
This is what I wish would happen with Panzer Dragoon Saga. It was one of the best games ever.
Command and Conquer isn't going to go "abandonware" any time soon. According to PC Gamer (May 2006), the C&C games were just re-released as "Command and Conquer: The First Decade". If you want a copy, go buy the DVD compilation.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Casablanca is STILL one of the top dozen or two dozen movies of all time, and people still buy the DVDs.
Good Shakespear and good games are no different.
I own System Shock 2, it wasn't that good. It had good audio, but the plot line was so boring. Furthermore, you can only have so many zombies and security systems freak out at you while you are trying to quickly switch necessary items in a lousy designed heads up display before you just get bored. I wouldn't be skeptical that reason it isn't readily available on ebay is that hardly anyone bought it to begin with.
Ironically, Abadon is the hebrew word for "Ruin, destruction". So the "Abadoned" games would be actually be the recycled ideas and sequels with few hours of play we've been buying at suborbital prices.
:P
Ah, that's interesting and something I definitely didn't know. Makes the original typo even more ironic.
I think one of the best examples of this was surprisingly enough by Microsoft Research. After abandoning Allegiance (a game truly ahead of its time), the game was continually run by the community, with them modding the game. Years after the fact, Microsoft Research thought the community's efforts were so great, they finally decided to release the source code for the game. What Allegiance is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiance_(computer_ game)
Where the community is/get the game: http://www.freeallegiance.org/
Definitely a fun game if you can get by the learning curve. One of the best team-work based games I've played. When you have 20+ pilots scramble to a single sector for base defense against an equally large enemy bombing convoy, it is a thing of beauty. (yes, the game theoretically supports 100 vs. 100; though the last time that happened was only in beta testing in 1999)
I was under the understanding that Volition had released the source code for Freespace 2 *and* officially classed the original game CDs as abandonware already.
The ISO images (capable of being put through Alcohol 120% or so) are VERY readily available online with what looks like a real blessing. The FSOpen project is one of those better game-source-code efforts where some real, even impressive improvement was done to the game engine to bring it up to scratch..
Why give away old gear when the purpose of business is to sell new gear? And why buy new gear if you it will become old (and free) gear? This ain't commie-land Cuba, this is the great USA where commies are those freak with long hair running around naked in Californication.
Access it via the IP address. They're undergoing domain name negotiations.
"MY APOCALYPTIC TENOR HAS NOT BEEN DISPELLED!" - T-Rex, qwantz.com
eom
There is no major money is the ancient games. There is however small money in them.
Selling these games online for a couple of bucks doesn't hurt anyone. It's pretty much 99% profit. They don't need to produce "expensive" cdroms. Support? well.. none, make that very clear when people buy it. Afterall, it's ancient software that often doesn't run well on current systems. In turn the distributers could donate money to projects that offer support for their ancient games. Projects like DOSbox, which is pretty much required for a lot of those older games.
So in short:
- online distribution of the game AS IS
- including optional scanned manuals
- low price
- percentage of the profit to projects that make it possible to run the old game
it's a win-win situation for everybody
I did not know that!
This doesn't concern me personally. I have three legit store-bought copies of the game already.
But why oh why oh why did the folks at Vivendi "We put the 'Battle' in Bnetd" Universal decide to pull (well, rather, not re-arrange the redistribution) the Betrayal at Krondor from freeware? It's a wonderful game, one of the greatest RPGs ever made for PC. And there it sits, dusty, once again doomed to be "abandonware". I may sound a bit silly when babbling about the mythical Golden Era when people could download the game, legally and all, from Sierra. But it is a nice game. *sigh*
What would be nice is if the gaming companies could be convinced to include a clause that allows free trading/no-cd patching etc. of a game after an elapsed period of X number of years. They wouldn't have to give away the rights to the game itself, just make it so that you can trade it without penalty. They get to keep their exclusive commercial licence, gamers get to play old games without getting sued.
Frankly any game that still has any impact whatsoever on a company's balance sheet after a year from release is a minor miracle, I doubt very much that putting a 3 or 5 year "free trade" clause on there would do anything except make their fan base ecstatically happy.
I'd love to see some folks like Stardock or the like try something like this, just to see what kind of effect it has.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
But without proper IP referrers its virtually impossible to download anything. Here's hoping they fix this unfortunate mishap.
if I was a publisher (and profits mattered more than games, I know a few for whom they don't). Right now I'm sitting on a stack of 40+ PSX/PS2 games I'm dying to play. There's probably another 10 or 20 'classic' games I want to spend serious time with. Then there's the whole MMORPG thing. And then you've got games like Morrorowind and Oblivion with 300+ hours of gameplay. How the hell is a publisher suppose to sell new games in a market like this? It was fine when the common folk were first getting into games. All those 20-something's buying Final Fantasy VII and Madden 2kX did a fine job driving growth. But pretty soon publishers are going to run smack into the wall that is their own back catalog.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Add the IPs to your hosts file as *.the-underdogs.info and access the site through that. Note that .org does not work.
These guys are trying harder to find titles that you could expect the average joe, and they cannot find everything. They have reacently branched out to other platforms, but the Amiga list has been there for a very long time.
http://www.softpres.org/?id=wanted
Its a nice idea in theory, but the fact is they dropped the ball. Getting them to release it just means more overpriced crap. $29.99 'discounted' for a 5-10 year old game no thanks.
Roms and the FUN old games will always be 2 clicks away with bittorrent, unless they are willing to face the reality:
They will never be humble and admit back catalogs should really be done in large very cheap download only catalogs, such as "download all our '95-97 games for 5 bucks". This isn't the sh*t they should be trying to get direct profit from, you charge a fee to cover the very modest download costs and chalk it up as marketing your brand name. ('look, we knew how to make good games back then, and we still do')
Thats what the market will work with, not the shovelware method far above that blind greed will attempt. Software should fall into the same bucket hardware price curves do. Hell, you can't GIVE a 386 away, you have to PAY to throw it away these days.
I've also heard there's an officially sanctioned Dreamcast port of it. I've seen a number of pages referencing it, but no links to an actual working copy. Anyone happen to know where it can actually be obtained?
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Fallout #1 and #2. Those have got to be two of the best single-player RPG's ever made (R.I.P. Interplay/Black Isle Studios), maybe that's why I still have my original CD's. Now if I could only get them completely working under Wine....
This space for rent!
It's becoming commonplace nowadays for game industry veterans to purchase intellectual property from dead or dying video game developers, acquire financing and then develop new franchises based on the old IP. So I think the notion that old games must be "abandonware" is fallacious. Someone always owns that old IP, and it's not the guys who are copying the games around the 'Net...
You understand the mis-spellings, but what about the spurious hyph-ens?
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/abandonware/pc /simulations/games_s/shadow_president.html
I haven't actually given this a try, but it seems there are a few diehards keeping this old game alive.
I feel obliged to post a link to Home of the Underdogs (see also the wikipedia article
I've had a lot of nice time playing games that I got from there.
Lone Gunmen crew.
If the people behind xbox live arcade were smart they would pull up famous games from the past, slightly update the graphics (not necessary, but would be nice for HD), and sell them on arcade. I know they are trying to go more for arcade games, but I would bet a decent amount of people would pay for Betrayal at Krondor with the original soundtrack, Wing Commander, some of the old school RPGs, etc. I know you can get these games for free, but if they slightly updated the graphics I wouldn't mind shelling out $5 for them.
Street fighter 2 is going to be released on xbox live arcade soon, hopefully. That's going to be a blast to play with people online.
I don't think that encouraging companies to milk commercial life out of dead titles is a good idea. When they do, you get limited releases, subjected to whatever the original company or distributor has or can get the rights to. When MAME was becoming really solid and reliable for a lot of the mid 80's arcade titles, Williams released a small amount of their titles in emulated form. This emulator could only be used to play these titles, and it changed the "moral status" (but not the legal status, obviously) of playing Joust, for example, from "I'm playing a classic that I can't play any other way this side of locating someone with a working machine" to "I'm playing it for free because I don't want or like the $20 version Williams released". Another great example is the Intellivision emulator which was strictly a commercial product and only played the ROMS it shipped with.
... 2072.
For me, it's a matter of preservation, and I think the geek community does that a lot better than a company with (legitimate) profit motives.
Then there's the whole issue of copyrights and extensions. A system that had started out as protection for 14 years renewable for 14 more is now author's life plus 70 or 95 for a corporation. This is especially ironic when you consider 14 years was the default well before the age of convenient and accurate post, much less network television, instant 24-hour news stations, the internet, and widespread broadband. One could argue that today's media month is equivalent to a media year or more in 1790, yet even then, 14 or 28 years was considered enough. These days, with copyright laws extending every time the issue comes up before Congress, is in effect copyright into perpetuity. So not only is "abandonware" not in the clear, the first time you can legitimately distribute 1977's Gun Fight is
While "abandonware" is legally meaningless, I think 14 years in computing and videogaming is sufficient for copyright protection. That would leave protection for companies for the current and previous console platforms, for instance. Under copyright law as originally written, anything before 1992 would be fair game. As it should be.
Seems to me that the Founders got this right the first time, and we've been mucking it up for special interests ever since.
Gametap has been vigorously snapping up many games concidered "abandonware" from arcade classics to pc games that are just a few years old. Last I checked their business model was a $19 subscription service. I checked them out when it first started and found my "nostalgia" moods were to few and far between to justify the cost.
That said, I would love to see old Amiga games like Nuclear War, Shadow of the Beast 1&2 and Killing Game Show available to play again. Being able to play without having to resort to UAE would be a bonus as well.
Back when people were anxiously waiting for titles like Half-Life 2 and Doom3, Irrational Games developed the next game in the Tribes franchise. When VUG released this game, it had such horrible timing that both HL2 and D3 stole every spotlight there is for a computer game. This resulted in poor sales as a result and even though a patch was released to fix issues with the single player portion, very little to nothing was done to the multiplayer portion. A dedicated server was released but there were so many bugs inherent with the release that bandwidth becomes an issue along with server stability.
For months on end the fans of that title waited for the next big patch that'll hopefully fix everything, including what promised to be PunkBuster support for the title. However, in the painful and patient waiting period, legal issues were problematic that hindered the continuing development of the patch. So many were reassured that there's a patch coming. But the majority of the people have left and moved on, sadly, to other games.
And 6 months into the game's life, VUG has announced that it is ceasing support of the title. Six months was the lifespan of this title before VUG abandoned support for the game. And while many will argue in saying that this was the worst Tribes title of the 3, I say play the game for what it is -- a Tribes game. It may not suit those who are so used to the old days but things change and things evolve.
I can only wish that the game would become either public domain or even open-sourced for people to hack around with. But the sad part of it all is the game's foundation. The game's built upon the Unreal 200x engine. The Havok physics engine was also licensed to be built into that engine. As of now, the engine itself is still in wide use and still a current generation product. The likelihood of the title ever becoming open and released into public domain is so slim and dim that this game will forever be plagued with problems. This title has been abandoned in such a bad way that it makes me despise VUG for what they are.
~ Old Warriors Society
Theres already a site with a number of abandoned games.... http://www.abandonia.com/ They've already been trying to get more games onto their list... its a pity their April fools day game wasn't really abandoned (Curse of Monkey Island).
"The people of Exiled Gamers have put together an Abandonware Campaign with which they hope to be able to convince game publishers to rescue titles from their current 'Abandonware' status, and make them available for the public to play (legally) once again. They have made mention of quite a few titles that have slipped into the status of Abandonware (titles that it's no longer possible to buy at retail, and that are near impossible to locate on sites such as eBay), which includes System Shock 2, Freespace 2, as well as older titles, such as The Chaos Engine, Alien Breed and Flashback."
Woah woah woah, hold the phone.
Abandonware is a godsend for gamers. It allows you to download your old favorites for free if you can spare the 5 minutes to Google for them. Licensing these games back from abandonware status does nothing to help consumers! The public domain is an endangered public right...music , games, movies...even our very childhoods...are being made illegal to re-visit unless we pay a tax to the information slave masters. When you revoke abandonware status you make it illegal to download games for free, and you end up paying $39.99 on amazon for M.U.L.E. or Space Quest.
STOP ADVOCATING THE PILLAGING OF THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, WE NEED MORE PUBLIC DOMAIN RIGHTS NOT LESS.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
For those who haven't played the game, I highly recommend checking it out; it remains an amazing and compelling gaming experience to this day. The game is an FPS/RPG hybrid, and it isn't necessary to have played the first game to understand or enjoy it.
Some used copies of the game can be found at GameTZ (http://gametz.com/aGames/PC/System+Shock+2.html). Alternatively, the game routinely shows up on popular BitTorrent sites. After you get ahold of the game, you'll want to download the excellent Rebirth mod (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/etienne.aubert/sshock/ssh ock_rebirth.htm) and upgraded texture pack (http://shtup.home.att.net/), which both really help the game to look much less dated. (Some torrents include the mods, as they're considered almost essential.)
I'm not sure if this post will imspire anyone to check the game out, but I hope I've helped add the game to at least one gamer's all-time favorites list.
And I wonder how one can say something is "near impossible to locate on ebay" when there are FOUR copies there on sale, at this very minute, all so cheap as to indicate the title is anything but rare! In addition there are copies available on Ebay Stores.
Seems to me that all the author wants is free games!
I have it in there as the-underdogs.org and www.the-underdogs.org and it seems to work.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
My rule is: If the software is EOL then you may copy.
While that is an interesting rule, it still is not the law.
fuck you.
There's a retro commercial market though. Things that have been dormant for ages are now again for commercial sale for example in the plethora of direct-to-TV joysticks to play Galaga, Centipede, Pac Man, and many others. The copyright owners aren't just going to give away stuff they might find a market for again later on. Similar to Disney's "vault" where they sell a movie for a short time and then tke it off the market to artifically limit supply, it's still illegal to share copies of their films during the not for sale periods just because its not buyable at the time. While an annoying business model, especially if the kids scratch and ruin a DVD of their favorite movie that you might not be allowed to replace legally at the store, it is what it is, and I'd be suprised if the marketing guys will change this.
Freespace 2 was an incredible game. I spent hours flying the infinite dogfight mode and flying the bombers against the capital ships was great fun, trying to evade the fighters and flak. I bought Rogue Squadron 2 the other day, thinking it might recapture that excitement, but it pales in comparison to FS 1&2.
I think there's a good case for automatically expiring copyrights and trademarks if they're abandoned. For example, if software is no longer supported and sold, it should become open source unless it can be shown that it makes up a substantial part of a newer version which is being actively developed. If music or movies not published for say five years, they should lose copyright protection. If the owner of a patent does not create or license a product embodying the invention for five years, it should expire. Ok, so this is simplistic, but the spirit I am trying to get at is to stop hoarding of intellectual property and denying the public at large the chance to enjoy it.
Why dont these companies put them on the Nintendo Revolution or Xbox Arcade or PC and charge like 50 cents a download ? That might be a good alternative, all they have to do is adapt dosbox for these consoles for the really old games...for the CD based games I have no idea.
Parts of the Ultima VII storyline are inspired by game creator Origin Systems' conflicts with competitor (and later, their new owner) Electronic Arts. The main antagonist of the story, The Guardian, is presented as a 'destroyer of worlds'. Origin Systems' corporate slogan was 'We Create Worlds' and it can be implied that The Guardian represented Electronic Arts' attempts at destroying the competition. The three evil 'Generators' created by The Guardian in the game took the physical shapes of the contemporary Electronic Arts Logo: a cube, a sphere, and a tetrahedron. Elizabeth and Abraham, two apparently benevolent characters who later turn out to be murderers, have the initials "E" and "A". - Wikipedia's Ultima 7 article
I'd be very happy to give George Lucas more money for a 1024x768 TIE Fighter upgrade.
Ultimately by not forcing, or trying to force people to upgrade in the game of license shuffeling the software industry might just get a wakeup call as to what the consumers really want.
Well the message Im geting is "I don't want to have to pay for old software" Somehow I don't think that message is going to fly.
e.g. stuff from the days before dedicated 3D hardware and hugely complex pipelined processors.
but i've never had much sucess in running games of the duke vintage or slightly older under dosbox (if anyone has got it working well could you post the settings you use?).
there is a gap between whats still easy to run on its original platform and what runs well in emulation and i think its widening.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Microsoft is trying to get publishers to redo classic games for xbox live arcade. They are thinking more along the lines of classic arcade games like galaga, pacman & the like from 20 years ago rather than PC games of 10 years ago.
Word on the street is that MS is going to try for a Windows version of XBoxLive so maybe there is hope for reviving some old PC games in this way in the future.
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
I mean no joke ! Isnt it a fact that generations have grown up playing these titles and these titles have set the way for the game industry, defined its route to be ? Isnt gaming entertainment industry a huge sector in the world right now ? So what do these games lack to be an initiator, a pioneer of major development in technology like sawing machines once did for textile ? Isnt it plain stupidity to let these titles last code be deleted in some old hard drive ?
Read radical news here
It may just be me, but the examples provided by wikipedia are for patents only, are they not?
"STOP ADVOCATING THE PILLAGING OF THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, WE NEED MORE PUBLIC DOMAIN RIGHTS NOT LESS."
And yet it's not the "public domain" that's being found on P2P networks. Sometimes even before it hits the store. For a group who makes a lot of noise about public domain, you all certainly don't draw that much from it.
I've played both and love both, but quirks like infinite monster respawn in the second one made it feel like more of a FPS for me. Also, even though the choice of different classes in the beginning sounded great, it ended up taking away from the game's story. The first SS1 was honed to the role of only a hacker, so its story felt more complete for me, where as SS2 seemed to have gaps here an there. Even though they improved the graphics and gave the game the ability to use the mouse for aiming in SS2, they ended up watering down the rest of it. Even some controls had been removed. I recall that I could no longer crouch around corners, to shoot either high or low. I'm sad, because this was one of my most anticipated games and it ended up falling short. :( I remember trying it at E3 and being so excited about the prospect of it being developed.
:)
As a whole though, SS1 was by far the most intriguing, well balanced game that I've ever played. The second one didn't scare me like others have noted, where as the first one freaked me out more than a few times. I felt like I had just saved the universe after completing it.
Thief was also made by the same guy as SSx and Deus X. I've never played it, because it constantly crashed on my old Win2K PC. I'm sure it would work on any of my XP PCs though. I started on Deus X, but sadly didn't finish it. It had inherited lots of the things that bothered me about SS2. I'm still planning on playing it though. I have no doubt that's 10 fold better than most of the dumbed-down crap now days.
Looking Glass Technology was my favorited game company. I was sorely disappointed to see them go. Ultima Underworld was also another masterpiece crafted by them. It was the very first continous dungeon game and it offered a level of weopon control that still has not been matched by any other game that I know of, not even modern games like the stiff-controled-Oblivion.
<]=)
http://209.120.136.195/game.php?name=Chaos+Engine
s
http://209.120.136.195/game.php?id=1351
Anyway... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_of_the_Underdog
What would be nice is if the gaming companies could be convinced to include a clause that allows free trading/no-cd patching etc. of a game after an elapsed period of X number of years.
In fact, it's not that hard with Creative Commons' Founders' Copyright project.
Just because the company hasn't done anything with their game doesn't mean they aren't entitled to enforce their copyright.
If a copyright owner chooses not to exploit a given published work in the market, what deleterious effect does abandonware have "upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work"?
Monkeys aren't donkeys!
You're right: monkeys aren't donkeys; they're elephants. If you're tired of elephants and donkeys running the country, and you want your abandonware, then vote Pirate Party or start your own Pirate Party.
Abandonware is NOT legal to copy around as it's NOT legally public domain.
Copying is not always infringement, as all the exclusive rights of 17 USC 106 are granted subject to sections 107 through 121. Specifically, if a copyright owner refuses to exploit a given published work, then doesn't that negate any "market for or value of the copyrighted work" on which abandonwarez can have a negative effect?
but there is the bit about giving it to "friends" (in bold)
Except copyright judges are more than likely going to interpret "friends and acquaintances" in the EULA to refer to the same "normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances" referenced in the definition of "publicly".
This could backfire, as it might show there is enough interest to bring them back out again, pay only.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
When I think of Abandonware, I'm reminded of some decent games like the original Phantasie (Thanks Lord Wood!), Bard's Tale and Shadow President. Even years later they are evergreen titles that are fun to play again and again.
The examples are for patents only, but laches estoppel can apply to pretty much any issue (especially time-sensetive ones like, for example, elections)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Which roughly translates to "water that you are not going to drink of, let it flow". It seems like game companies (not game developers, though as it would seem by the article) don't get that they're not going to get any money on these games, and insist on suing the pants off anybody who tries to relive the old days by downloading an old adventure game off bittorrent. Some people are saying, "Well, they could be ported to mobile platforms and sold for money!". This sounds like a great idea, if I do say so myself. Heck, I would buy them if some old games got ported to the PSP/DS or cellphone. The problem is, they're not doing it! And even if they were, what if I didn't happen to own the platform which the companies choose to port it to? Would it really hurt their revenue if some people were playing it for free on PCS while some were paying to play it on the DS? No, it probably wouldn't. Because the people who would play these old games on new portable platforms wouldn't be playing at home. They would buy it because it's PORTABLE, first, and it's NOSTALGIC second.
The bottom Line? why are you game companies hoarding water (old games) and not drinking it (selling it)? It's not doing ANYBODY any good, and releasing it as abandonware would improve your image.
Does anyone remember that playstation game Thrill Kill?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrill_Kill
This game was so awesome. It had a whole slew of vicious attacks and particularly gruesome fatalities, like any decent fighting game, but it didn't end there. It had more original, freaky, fun characters than you could shake a stick at. You could play as a pair of siamese twins, a french maid with a cattleprod, a midget on stilts, a man in a straightjacket, a butcher, and a few others. But the coolest thing about it was that FOUR people could play these twisted characters at the same time. Man, my friends and I couldn't WAIT for that game to enter into our weekly video game battles. Lunchtime discussions over who would play which characters first practically came to blows and the game wasn't even out yet.
Thrill Kill was highly anticipated by gamers as the most graphically brutal and violent game of its time. This, of course, was EA's excuse to cancel it only days before the public release, soulless bastids and Haters of Fun that they are.
The Genesis also has a version of KGS, called Fatal Rewind IIRC. The music wasn't quite as good, but I feel it played just as good as the original.
FC Closer
I miss those games. When are they coming back, on a PC platform type of deal?
Unfortunately Autodesk's business model consists of regularly breaking compatibility with old versions and forcing people to buy "upgrades" they don't otherwise need.
If people don't buy the upgrades by the deadline, they have to pay full price or risk not being compatible with the rest of the industry.
Autodesk make Microsoft look like angels - and don't get me started on accounting packages. Hundreds of dollars for an upgrade just to get the current tax tables? at least for accounting there's Gnucash.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
It doesn't really comply with the terms of the EULA, therefore it devolves to Copyright law- which makes it an infringement to provide it. Just because nobody's ordered a takedown, doesn't make it legal.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
The law's got some specifics, and it covers this one. I believe you actually have to KNOW the person in question for starters, and this doesn't get you even close.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
On whether it makes to the drop-dead date before they enact another "Sonny Bono" on us...
(They should have been honest with us, it really was a "Mickey Mouse(tm)" reason for the expiration extention- the real reason why the law got enacted was to protect Disney's interests in Mickey Mouse(tm)...)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Diane Duane wrote this game for the Mac back before they changed from MFS to HFS, which did a decent job of making it unplayable. I'd love to see it un-abandoned.
I picked up a copy of Flashback on the Megadrive, for about £2, boxed, last year. It's not hard to find, at all, at least not in the UK.....
"Everlasting peace will come to Earth when the last man kills the last but one." - Adolf Hitler
Consequently, I've already paid for the rights to play a lot of games already where the floppy disks or tapes they were supplied on have long since deteriorated and have been binned.
So those who are anti-Abandonware should bear this point in mind...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
The The Chaos Engine can still be found at the Outerbody web site. It used to have it's own page but now it shares with the links page. http://www.outerbody.com/links.do
I still play Total Annihilation (Cavedog), Insane Offroad (Invictus), fun, and you don't have to spend $500 on a video card.
-My cat's name is mittens
I found a zipped up copy of DOOM the original in a backup of a hard drive that I had made around 1996 or so.
I tried playing DOOM again and found it near impossible. It uses only a SoundBlaster as a sound card. I don't think you can buy those nowadays. I do have a SoundBlaster Live, but as I have found out it is not backwards compatible.
It ran for a minute or so without the sound card but mouse movements become very jerky and then it locks up.
I wonder what it would take to get the original DOOM to run under XP.
Nathan
I doubt this will happen - not because "they" care about the IP or the rights of the old games but because if you start playing old abandonware titles, you won't be spending money on:
1. New consoles at $400 a pop
2. New video cards at $200+
3. New PCs at $1000+
4. New games at $40 to $80
5. Periperhals, xbox live, mmog fees, etc, etc, etc.
Why would they release old games, even at $1.00 a pop? The only exception I see is Xbox Live Arcade, where they charge you a couple of bucks for the game, on TOP of the $400 + Live Membership, and then know that you'll still go buy Halo 3 when it comes out. But that model isn't going to get your Leisure Suit back on your PC...
I sig, therefore I am.
In the US, that concept only applies to Trademarks. You have to explicitly, in writing, abandon your rights to Copyright in the US for it to pass into Public Domain that way if the work originated in this country (Which, sadly, Freespace2 happens to be from) or was specifically registered in this country- and YES, I am very familiar with the concepts involved. I'm an SF Author, accomplished software engineer, and Patent holding inventor. While I don't hold the same understandings as an "IP" attorney, I DO know something about what I'm talking about when it comes to Copyright, Patent, and Trademark Law and how they actually work in this country (Elsewhere may be a different matter, but if they follow the Berne Convention, they all largely work the same way...)
Sorry, it's wishful thinking, but legally speaking, your claim of "abandonment" doesn't apply here- if the successors in interest to Freespace2 sought to pursue the people passing it around, they could legitimately get takedowns (And possibly damage settlements or outright lawsuits...) without a license grant or an official document passing the game content into the Public Domain since it was separate from the game code and the studio explicitly licensed only the code. I suspect that the successors in interest for the PC version that everyone is passing around would be the original publisher of the game, Interplay, such as they are. Chances are, they're more of a shell with Lawyers behind most of the machinations. Something you DEFINITELY don't want attentions from.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Five years is simply too short for some types of property. For classical music or novels you may not even get noticed in your lifetime, let alone get enough income from a single work (or even a number of simultaneous works) in five years to be able to live off of it. In the fast-moving world of software you have a point, but music or literature? No way. Of course then there's the equally annoying and difficult question of how long estates or corporations should be able to hang on to that property after the original creator dies.
good points about the timescales to get works of art noticed. I think the principle of artistic copyright that it should last until the day the creator dies or his/her wife dies or his/her dependent children reach the age of 21 or 90 years after creators birth, whichever comes later... i.e. the works of art act as as regular salary or pension.
However, if the government didn't auction off the rights soon, it soon probably will not even know that it was supposed to receive the rights. Unfortunately there is no lost+found office for IP, so an abandonware site takes its place.
I believe a "bona fide"(good faith) effort to find out whether there is still someone interested in and capable of selling or licensing that IP should be enough to protect an abandonware site. But the problem with this is that the site still runs the risk that someone will argue successfully that the "bona fide" effort wasn't good enough, and while the concept of a "bona fide" effort is not unknown to courts it will be weighted against the copyright, which is in black and white.
I guess one could get this out of my long winded sentences above: if you run an abandonware site, you risk getting sued, and one thing you can do to protect yourself a little is to document your "bona fide" efforts.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
What I'd really like is if the companies would release the source to the old
games so that I could finally fix the blasted bugs in some of my old favorites.
I have a legal copy of Heroes of Might and Magic 4, and can play it whenever
I want, but I currently only play that game multi-player because the AI sucks
so absurdly much that it makes single-player mode pointless. I think that
with a few weeks of work I could make the AI strong enough to pose a challenge,
at least on the hardest level, and then I would have a whole lot of fun playing
it again. Oh, and I'd change how potions of immortality work, but that's another
topic.
I don't expect this to happen though, it seems that the current owners of the
Heroes of Might and Magic source are coming out with Heroes 5, with even fancier
graphics, which will probably suck compared to what Heroes 4 would be like with
a decent AI and a little fine-tuning, so they won't want the competition.
All of the Eye of the beholder games can be found for less than the cost of shipping if you search for "Gamefest: Forgotten Realms" on Amazon... ...and they all run great under DOSBox!
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
$19? You know, a quick trip to GameTap.com shows that you're around $10 over what the subscription price is. Subtle difference.