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The 'Hairy Guys' Vs. Microsoft
Jeremy Allison - Sam writes "The IHT is running the best write-up I've seen on the Microsoft vs EU Anti-Trust case, featuring quotes from tridge (Creator of Samba) and Carlo Piana (the FSFE lawyer). Nicely contrasts the difference between the Microsoft legal Team and the resources the FSFE has to work with. I was the FSFE witness for the initial hearing and the first trial, and this article nicely explains what it's like to be there." From the article: "The settlements left a group of computer programmers and activists, united under the banner of the Free Software Foundation Europe, with a bigger-than-expected role in supporting the EU's goal of loosening Microsoft's grip over the software industry. Only half-joking, one observer at the court this past week called some members FSFE and allies 'the hairy guys' - in contrast to the well- groomed legal teams fielded by Microsoft."
Article all on one page2 006/04/28/yourmoney/msft.php.
http://iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/
But speaking of hairy, I want an RMS pony!
OMG!!! RMS PONIES!!!
The "Hairy Guys" or the smooth suited professionals?
All you're supposed to remember from this article, is that the open source people aren't quite together, just like their software. They're fighting a good fight, but bound to loose. They're just a bunch of hairy guys right?
Remember that. It's why the article was written and presented here.
...but are they wearing sandals?
The last paragraph is rather telling of the reason why Microsoft is in this mess in the first place. I remember when I found out that they were bundling a Firewall with Windows XP. Did they think that going to a more "root" oriented system would cause too many headaches for the end user? I imagine it was more along the lines of "We'll do something about it in the next version" syndrome. Regardless, that was the day I decided to start looking at an alternative operating system.
Good luck Hairy guys...
Is there heaven? Is there Hell? Is that a Tuna Melt I smell?-Primus
Microsoft likes to present itself as well groomed and well mannered. It's a nice cover for their back alley tactics (which contine to this day, and will for all time). They appear like the Don polishing his favorite apple which he took from the poor lady on the street (without paying for it). "HOW DARE YOU CHARGE ME" would be his reply if she asked for compensation. He might just tip over her cart and knock her to the ground instead. Microsoft has wrung protection out of millions. Now a group from the community is banding together. The internet ties them. Microsoft and it's BSA brute squad can only kick down so many doors before a large group starts kicking down the BSA's (and Microsoft's) doors. You can call that collected community group hairy if you want to, but unlike Microsoft, they are respectable and non-crimminal.
Ted Haegar's Novell Open Audio podcast for 17 April has a lengthly and amusing phone-round search for FOSS users who are part of the hairy guy set- but the only coders he can find who have, are employed by Microsoft.
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Many people who write free software don't have money for haircuts. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
...our hirsute, bespectacled overlords.
The IHT of this weekend also has a frontpage article about the French "iPod law" and the call for open source as the way forward.
Firehed - Unfortunately, thanks to medical breakthroughs, common sense is not as common as it once was.
So, are we talking chest hair, back hair...I'm confused!
Why go fast when you can go anywhere? O|||||||O
Hi Sam, if you or tridge are still around Luxembourg, and want to kill some time, some of us LiLux'ers would love to offer you a beer or something. For contact data, just check the LUGs website on www.linux.lu. Anyway, thanks for the fight in court!
Well, FWIW, I know one of the "smooth suited professionals" that Microsoft employs. And his opinion? That the arguments that Microsoft wanted deployed in court were, in summary "We are so important and so essential to the IT world that you must allow us to do whatever we want." Unfortunately, judges do not take warmly to this kind of argument. Judges like John Cooke have a clue about things like Firefox (and now knows a lot more about how kernels work and that Windows Embedded means that the Microsoft kernel need not be monolithic). They are also used to academic expert witnesses, and European academics can be very unusual indeed. I don't know what the outcome will be, but it is far from clear that the FOSS movement will lose, at least in the Eurozone.
Pining for the fjords
Microsoft can't be let off the hook twice, both the US and EU cases have cost US and EU tax payers a lot of money.
The US case was largely dropped due to a change of US leadership and a short sighted attitude that it's best to have a big US IT monopoly than let things go abroad.
The EU case could easily disappear for similar reasons, the EU commissioners aren't democratically elected and have been known to take backhanders in the past.
Tridge is Free-Man!
No one is twisting your arm to use Microsoft products..
Blame the user, not the software.
Do you know how Orcs first came into being? They were once Elves. Taken by the Dark Powers in the First Age-tortured, mutilated-a ruined and terrible form of life, bred into a slave race.
-Saruman
Calling an orc an elf might technically be true, but you might want to keep a reasonable distance from it...
Marks' proposal for international uniting gives important insight to developers' situation here as well... But the human kind proved that this is not going to happen with too many examples.
You are not reading it correctly. Far from clear means it's not clear.
Does it matter? Well, it is all about what you care about. Presentation or substance. Not that looking like a mess means you got subtance or vice versa BUT I might just choose a lawyer who looks like he been up all night reading legal papers rather then just fresh from the spa.
Then again that could just mean the latter guy knows his stuff while the first is still studying.
Oooh how about this one. Can't judge a book by its cover?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yeah, sorry about that. I was a bit too jumpy!
'stray cat' free software is not going away any time soon, or ever. Neither is 'pedigree cat' commercial software. They are two sides of the same coin.
If you look at the home page the free software foundation europe you will see nearly all doners of are German.
100% wrong.
I am a tax payer and a consumer of the normal range of products that a middle class person in the US has. I AM SO FORCED to "use" MS products because ALL my governments-federal-state-county and local, USE MICROSOFT, and I get to help cut them a humongous check. When I go to the store-bingo- more of my money goes to Microsoft. When I plug something in to the electric socket, more of my money goes to Microsoft. And so on.
I would PREFER that my money doesn't go to Microsoft, as I consider them to push grade C products *at best*, and they are also an on going criminal enterprise, and contribute mightly to the insecurity of the internet and to cost extravagances that are UNNECESSARY in all aspects of modern computing life. They are no different now than the **AAs, an unnecessary buggy whip industry whose time has come and should be gone by now.
IMO, they made their billions, I would prefer they had their corporate charter removed and be forced to "retire" on whatever cash they have. They should have been both broken up and then cast to the winds when it came out how utterly corrupt and incompetent they were and are. Strong arm tactics, threats and bribery are felonius criminal actions in my book, and I can't help that the DOJ weenied out on it. 20 years ago, swell, a so so company, moderately useful, but behind the scenes they were establishing their criminal gang and operation, so now??? Gangster owned, gangster run criminal organization pushing software lemons, and millions of us are sick of having our money taken from us, forced from us with zero say in the matter, to support their continued existence.
Enough's enough. Stop spreading lies of omission. Just because someone doesn't personally "run" MS products on their little home PC doesn't mean they don't "pay" for Microsoft or aren't forced to "use it".
IE cannot be replaced. It must be present. Simply because the help system needs it. In itself, this isn't a problem. Except that MS has achieved a monoply by OS preloads.
Same deal with media players. Not a problem UNLESS a monoply is present, and the purpose of the preload is to obtain another monoply. In this case, its the WMA format.
And, the request made to MS was reasonable: document the links that IE and Media Player have with the rest of the OS.
Now, I believe that MS cannot do this, because the information is simply not available, unless the source is given. In a sense, MS is correct -- these (and other) components are part of the base OS, and can no longer be removed. Such hubris -- MS should have kept documentation to these projects.
Which implies that the either the MS development process is broken, or that MS are really nasty. I tend to believe the first (Mr. Gates is NOT the "devil", but that MS development shoots from the hip).
Still, MS has run afoul of monopoly control laws, in a number of jurisdictions. Why? Not relevant. They must now comply and clean up their act.
Redhat is a monopoly? Apple? Suse? Mandriva? OpenBSD?
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
For purposes of the Linux kernel, it doesn't matter what the FSF says; it matters what the copyright holder says. Linus says binary kernel modules are allowed. Linus is the relevant copyright holder (kind of -- but the other folks who contribute do so knowing of the exception, and thus consent). If you have explicit permission from the copyright holder, that's your license to create binary-only kernel modules. There; done; non-issue.
I don't see any of your other arguments, clearly portrayed, which really hold water for common-case scenarios. Remember that there are very big companies with very well-paid lawyers who build software for Linux; the analysis has been done by people more competant than you or I.
I think Parent was talking about Stallman, who wears sandals in his famous "St. Ignutius" picture.
From the point of view of the incoming administration, Microsoft has been very successful, and was being punished for their success. They simply stopped what they thought was a wrong.
The logic is at least partially self-consistent. The best and brightest people are those who have succeeded at the American Way - ie, the richest and most powerful. It's not right to punish success, success should be rewarded. View the Bush Administration's domestic actions in this perspective, and it all makes sense. It also makes a kind of sense on the morality front. Jesus Christ wasn't so hot on the wealthy, so the rich and powerful have to take a moral stand, and what easier moral stand is there to take than against the marginalized.
This of course presumes you agree with this perspective. Others of us have no problem with success, as long as you get there fairly. Some of us also believe that having been raised on the parent's silver spoon says nothing at all about your superior skills and wit - it just says you handed a better shot at success. Then again, read the 4 Gospels, and see the group who attracted the greatest contempt from Jesus Christ - the rich and powerful who look down on others' sins.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I'm free of false drugs. When I want to get high, I get my hair cut, shine my shoes, fill up the tank, clean the windshield and hit the open road.
Yeah, now we see why you REALLY don't do drugs. I could probably grow a pretty nice heroin addiction for what you spend on gas these days. =P
On a serious note, though. That may be what tickles your pink, but I have yet to find a collared shirt that I'd _like_ to wear around my apartment. El Cheap-o Cotton T-Shirt, however, is quite comfy. Unless I'm out to impress someone, I wear what I feel most comfortable in, or what meets my needs best. This generally equates to cargo pants, big boots, and a T-shirt. My boots do get shined, but only when they're scuffed up, and that's more a matter of keeping them in good shape than giving a damn if they look good.
Suits and such are for impressing people. Yes, they may look good, and some people may actually enjoy wearing them. Good for them, they should feel free. Most of us don't agree. If you feel the need to dazzle somebody with your appearance, then a suit might be the way to go. Some people don't feel the need to do that, or think they can get by with intelligence alone instead.
Having said that, there's no excuse for not maintaining a certain level of hygine, barring a water shortage or sudden, unexpected trip around the world with no belongings.
Fill in your four or five-letter word of wisdom here _ _ _ _ _.
I hope the "hairy guys" cut their hair and dress up for these meetings. A brilliant engineer sometimes has eccentricities that a nice suit, clean haircut, and good cologne and breah mints can mask. Believe me it goes a __long__ way to convincing the rest of the world that the Stallman's of the world aren't hippies bent on mindless fun.
Sure you might lose some "cool" points w/ your engineering buddies if you cut off that rat tail ponytail that you have been growing for the last 5 years, but remember, once M$ is dead you can go back to your hippie ways and no one will be the wiser.
Reading "hairy guys" in print does not invoke a positive connotation. In fact, it makes me think that the "hairy guys" are irresponsible and lack maturity. The press is __great__ at stereotyping, do not give them another reason to negatively portray engineers.
My joke post below aside (I'm both shocked and totally unsurprised that anyone on slashdot bit), I hear that once in a while, too. I think my reaction is similar to yours; I sort of take it like a compliment, but I wonder what the hell the speaker thinks is wrong with me in the first place.
I rarely wore them anyway, but a few years back I swore of neckties altogether. When an occasion requires a tie, I wear a bolo tie, with plain (but shiny!) black western boots. I've recently bought a really nice embroidered western shirt from a store that caters to country western musicians, but before that I just wore a nice black shirt. I've never worn a cowboy hat, though. =) For pants I either wear unfaded black jeans (if it's formal) or unfaded blue jeans (if it's not). I've got a rich uncle that sometimes invites me to lunch or dinner at his country club. On those occasions I'm forced to wear slacks because of the dress code, but I put up with it because I enjoy my uncle's company. Oh, and I'v got a nice black psuedo-suede coat to go on top of everything. (Nothing has fringe on it, btw! =)) This cowboy outfit has served me well, from funerals, weddings, going out to plays, court appearances, and the very rare job interview. (I get 99% of my work from word of mouth and repeat customers.)
The one serious thing about my joke post below is the shoe shining thing. There's something really great about getting your shoes shined. It just does something to improve my mood, either "My shoes are shiny and I can do anything!" or "I might fall flat on my face, but at least my shoes are shined" or something somewhere in between.
One of the cheapest places to get your shoes shined is at Nordstrom. It's $2.50 + tip. I don't generally shop at Nordstrom, but I like the inexpensive shoeshine. I also like traveling in countries where you can get a good inexpensive shoeshine. I'll pack my western boots on a backpacking type trip to Mexico, just so I can get my shoes shined in the town square. Ten pesos well spent.
There's one thing I used to love to do that I don't think you can do anymore in most places, and that's to get an old fashioned, lay back in the chair, straight razor shave. Twenty years ago, it was easy to old barber shops that offered this. Now days, with all the fear surrounding blood bourne diseases, not so much. Again, when I was in Mexico, I asked for a shave at a peluceria, but the guy told me, no, to shave a stranger would be like having sex with everyone I'd ever had sex with, but with none of the fun.
The last time I had a straight razor shave was in the PRC. Only 20 yuan. I haven't been back there in a while, so I don't know if they still offer that. It was in a hotel in Shenzhen.
Oh, and my "normal" everyday drag is wellingtons, thick socks, jeans, and a t-shirt (preferably black).
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Right on. The REAL issue is not bundling. That legal strategy was designed by Real, Netscape and others to yield compensation dollars. The real issue is Inter Process Communication (IPC). A file is a form of IPC. A network message is IPC. If the details of the various forms of IPC are widely available products can interoperate and that is good. I believe that a product that is completely dominant in a market the details regarding it's IPC should be made available so as to reduce the liability associated with using that product. In this particular case that liability is the unfair business practice of forcing other companies out of a market by leveraging undisclosed IPCs. Secondarily there are a number of other very good reasons for having alternative programs that understand the same IPCs but it's not clear that they have legal bearing.
I'm hairy, does this mean I can join their gang? I'm not much with lawyering, but I can swing a sack of door knobs! Oh, I can program to.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Genuinely Democratic governments who have merely the narrowest of majorities are remarkably malleable when faced by organised civil agitation.
I think what you are searching for is the all-time classic- in a two with two barbers, one neatly shaved and groomed, the other with unkempt, poorly cut hair who's shop would you choose to use?
http://research.microsoft.com/~jamesrh/
...internet. They should have shown more respect for the hairies. We owe the computer/internet revolution to hairy guys all over the world.
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