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10 Years of Neon Genesis Evangelion
smooth wombat writes "Mainichi Daily News has a lengthy, multi-part article on the history of Neon Genesis Evangelion. The article looks back at the 10 years since Evangelion appeared and how it changed the world of manga." From the article: "In a series of 26 episodes, Evangelion told the story of a 14-year-old boy called Shinji Ikari, who piloted a biomechanical combat robot called an Evangelion, which fought against mysterious extraterrestrial monsters known as Angels. But Shinji was also a regular junior high school pupil, and his school life featured strongly in the anime's plot too. As did psychotherapy and the Old Testament, which director Hideaki Anno attributed as influences while creating the series. Evangelion become a huge hit across Japan, attracting fans across generations, sparking a massive public debate over its controversial final episode -- which many criticized for leaving the work unfinished -- and sparking unprecedented merchandising sales that set the scene for the current manga market."
I couldn't believe they had spent the ~$30 per 4 episodes to collect this set!
If you don't care about spoilers or have seen all the episodes and movies, check out the Wiki page on it. That has the best definitive analysis of this series that I've ever read. I know that since I am not a native Japanese speaker, I probably missed a lot of this implied meaning just by being preoccupied with reading the subbed script. I honestly always predicted something very Freudian about every relationship in the series but I think it was just because of the father figure and strange emotions that were sometimes appearant.
There's not much I can say without ruining any plot so I believe I'll hold my tongue.
Yes the episodes were good but I don't agree with: That's both ridiculous and preposterous! The episode completely wrapped up and
My work here is dung.
I understood about two words of that. Anyone else just not that impressed with Manga and Anime in general? I feel that I'm doing an injustice to my geek heritage, but I just don't appreciate it like some do.
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
For those who want the spoilers, here's the summarized plot of Neon Genesis Evangelion.
:'( ...
Shinji: My life sucks, I want to die!
Rei:
Asuka: Stupid Shinji.
THE END.
but is it faster than an electric car?
I love anime, I run a local anime society here in Wales, I even like Evangelion....but seriously....does this REALLY need a /. article?
...do the computers they use in the anime run Linux? I mean, Pen Pen HAS to be a cousin of Tux!
I loved that show. I have the DVD. It is the only Manga that I own or really got into. Those EVAs really freaked me out. The ending was pretty lame though in my opinion.
Then go for Manga, not Hentai.
...as Shinji.
Er, so I've heard.
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I don't mean to troll, but I find zero appeal in the show. It falls in the category I call "psuedo-literature," a group which includes works that try so very hard to actually be quality literature, but ironically, trying so hard ruins the whole exercise. The writers for the show obviously through from the start that they were going to write a grand epic; they put enough twists and turns into the plot to get people convinced, even. If it's that complicated, it HAS to be good, right?
Wrong. The quality of a piece of literature isn't in its complexity, it's actually in the simple, easily apparent parts. The complexity adds dimensions to the simple story, but it does not add meaning itself, and often *confuses* meaning by adding extraneous material in the attempt to make "a really cool story."
So that leaves us with Evangelion, admired by hordes and spurned by people who are described by said hordes as "not getting it." Perhaps there's just not that much to get? Perhaps you're adding too much into a reading, because they left so much hanging you constructed around the work? That's not literature. Literature guides your faculties, it doesn't fool them and then expect them to expand things past the breaking point.
To wit, look at shakespeare. Generally, a couple rich people who get in trouble with someone else, and either laugh it off or die. The end. The complexity is internalized in the characters; the plot itself is simple. That is why Shakespeare is Shakespeare, and Evangelion is just another mecha anime.
Anyone else just not that impressed with Manga and Anime in general? I feel that I'm doing an injustice to my geek heritage, but I just don't appreciate it like some do.
Can't you see how NGE completely changed anime! It brought a new and inspired story line of a teenage kid with social problems battling aliens in a giant robot... innovative ideas that had never been examined before!
Err wait... I guess I'm with you, anime is just like any other genre/media, there are a few great pearls of human insight, but in general its mass marketed garbage.
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
Considering she's 99% cyborg, how is GITS any different than other inside-a-robot animes? It's one of the underlying themes of the series.
Just like evangelion just uses the powerful imagery of mecha as a vehicle of introspection into human psychology.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
Tm
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if you really want to mess yourself, or some of your friends up, do what we did. Start at 7PM, get a group of whoever you can find in the dorms, and watch straight through... all of Neon genesis Evangelion, and then Lain. Guaranteed mind f*ck.
By the way that's not the end of Evangelion. There were 2 full-length movies. The first (End of Evangelion) was basically a re-hash of the series, very little new content. The second is "Death and Rebirth" which was Hideko Anno's response to people complaints about episodes 25 and 26. The movie was disturbing and confusing, I won't spoil it, find an anime store and rent it. You haven't finished Evangelion till you've seen Death and Rebirth.
Not truth so much as close-mindedness on your part. A lot of anime has plotlines and characters that put things like 24 or Lost to shame. Watch before you judge- just because you grew up with Walt Disney doesn't mean that all things animated are for kids.
When is /. going to grow up and quit covering this nonsense. No adult CARES about these silly computers. Grow up guys.
(mod me down if you wish... that doesn't change the truth)
Zankoku na tenshi no tezeee....
-- "If A equals success, then the formula is A=X+Y+Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut." - Einstein
Oh oh, we might as well get "Tonight Show" on cnn cancelled, comedy network abolished, hollywood closed.
Its another form of ENTERTAINMENT man ! And quite impressive and sometimes quite hilarious one indeed !
Maybe it is their "Work too much, be in good diciplinline, tradition" heritage, but japanese can really crack themselves and the audience up with what they do as entertainment.
Some of the mind-bending laughter i had over my whole life were from animes.
You would do better to take a more positive view and try out some of the more prominent anime titles.
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And they still don't know what the fuck it's about.
HitScan
"Grow up guys."
Never!
26 Years old and still watching animations of! (Of all types. Japanese, Pixar, etc. Heck, isn't the new Star Wars and Lord of the Rings movies 70% animation anyways?)
No adult CARES about these silly cartoons.
Actually, Evangelion didn't start to get really popular in Japan until it was shown in a timeslot that was targeted torwards adults.
Eva is a very intricate and complex series that appeals to adults more than children.
I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
Dwight Schrute, is that you?
way too much tentacle rape you misspelled "not enough".
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Everyone's got their preferences, but Anime's certainly not mainstream, it's definitely geek. Anime has a lot more thought, nuance, and sometimes controversy, behind it than mainstream animated storytelling. All of this provokes thought more than mainstream animations, and appeals more to geeks because of this.
flyyyyyyy me to the moooooon and let me siiiiiiiing amongtst the staaaars
GITS, GITS:SAC, and the movies are better cosmetically (music and graphics), more believable, and most important, you actually care what happens to the main character. I wanted Shinji to die as quickly as possible, just to shut up his whining.
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One of the more controversial things about Eva is some of the scarier linkups that (thankfully for ADV) havn't been widely reported. A few years back I was on staff with a large anime con, and talked with ADV staff about Eva. One of the things they mentioned was that they got heat from the police because both the Columbine Killers and Hale Bopp Crowd apparently were big fans of Eva, and the police stopped by to have a word with ADV.
One of the more interesting connections was also with Aum Shinrikyo. Apparently at least one of the assistant directors on Eva was a member of Aum Shinrikyo. Anno himself mentions this, and also mentions that he started writing eva right around when the Aum Shinrikyo attack occured. Aum Shinrikyo apparently also used Eva tapes for recuriting afterwords, but apparently stopped after GAINAX started complaining.
The anime got critical acclaim/notice for being so weird, timing, and all it's judeo christian references. The manga isn't finished yet, and does not follow the anime strictly. Really the anime was pretty poorly written, the creators are definitely clever and creative, but it was clear they didn't have much plan for the series and just got lucky (in america at least.)
Anime came first, was written and directed by otaku-loved crazyboy hideki anno. The manga is written and illustrated by the character designer Yoshiyuki Sadamoto. The relation between the two is pretty loose. The manga is actually being written well, if slowly.
Yeah, right, troll. Your mum's a giant robot.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
"I wanted Shinji to die as quickly as possible, just to shut up his whining."
I think that was intentionally, especially considering the ending was pretty much a slap in the face.
reversed the names on the moves. Guess that means its time to watch them again :)
Now its time... I fear to tell I've been holding it back so long...
"Some of the mind-bending laughter i had over my whole life were from animes."
You've seen Excel Saga.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
... it all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Nay actually. But ill definitely put it on the list if you give me its full name.
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Neon Genesis Evangelion was widely acclaimed, and IMO overrated. The main reason for the weird ending on first show was caused by lack of funds (did you see the drop in animation from episode 21?) Hideaki Anno, the director, and surely a person with a huge ego, didn't like the criticisms and lashed out at everyone in a Newtype interview published shortly after the end of the series. The subsequent movies and "final episodes", aside being a display of an incoherent plot, are just his revenge against those who didn't "understand" him. As for the so-called references... I firmly believe there is no "second meaning" in Evangelion. There are a lot of things thrown at the viewer, but I don't find any real sense. I suspect they were put in just to "look cool" and have people think a lot about nothing. The consequences on the anime market were sadly bad (a whole round of series with stories that made no sense) but more on the fandom, since they're now convinced that everything that looks "strange" on a series MUST be tied to "hidden meaning". Examples are in The Soul Taker, or Shojo Kakumei Utena, where there is no trace of a hidden meaning, but the extreme oddity of the situations "spices up" what could have been a pretty basic storyline.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
I'm not saying that Evangelion is a timeless classic, but it's no Voltron. If you get nothing more out of it than "person in a giant robot," you should probably stop watching anything more complicated than romantic comedies.
English is easier said than done.
... of having to say "Mustn't run away! Mustn't run away!" for 10 years.
"Considering she's 99% cyborg, how is GITS any different than other inside-a-robot animes?"
Well... She can't just pop out of her body like a pilot. If she is a Robo-mecha that pretty much anyone else is.
And gits follows a different plot line. 99.9% she is in her own body unless you count her being in cyberspace not.
In a Giant-robo movie. Most of the time the lead character does his thing outside the robot... The conversation... The drama... And then all of a sudden a big baddy arrives in the city to wreck havok and they lead character jumps in his big robot and fights the thing off and then you have the ending scene with the character usually leaving the robot.
In GITS (especially Stand Alone Complex I and II)... You are treated to very dynamic and well thought out plots. Yes there are guys in mechanized suits and the spider robots (tachikoma's) but these are done realistically and not key feature of the plot. Tachikoma's are often thought of as comic humor relief, but during many episodes these robots are contemplating deeper issues like "The Meaning of Life" and what happens to you after you die while the lead characters often kept a more serious down to earth attitudes.
Most of the plots are semi-realistic or believable enough but still "out there" enough to be considered sci-fi. That and the technobabble is kept to a minimum.
Overall I do have some minor complaints about the second series plot direction (but it maybe because the viewer is supposed to be frustrated with the current events), but it is far better than most average Giant-Robot anime.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I'm a huge fan of Evangelion and a lot of other anime. In addition, I usually find /. articles concerning these subjects interesting. But did anyone actually READ this article before posting it as news? The author displays an obvious lack of understanding of the anime culture (both American and Japanese) and doesn't really introduce anything novel. You'd be much better off reading about it on wiki.
Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
I have not watched those shows either. I only like shows based on fact or telling me facts or testing facts and based on real life events that have happened. No acting required for any of those.
Um, Star Wars sucks dude!
Of course, I like Lost, what I've seen of it, so I'm not picking on it.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Because, like for Casshern, they're prisoners to their foreign body or armor. Which is a completely different thing than manipulating a robot, it's way harder for your mental health.
Kids have no problem picturing themselves in robots, or even transforming, they know they can go back to normal. Most (male) kids just loves this.
Something like what happens in GitS or Casshern would be at the very least disturbing to kids (and adults alike).
How suprising ? Actually I am suprised how much this series has got flamed here. Comparisons to Starwars ? Are you joking ? Starwards is for 5year olds, please, the only deep references it has are swords and magic powers. Hellboy, oh my god, what a piece of crap that was. Honestly if your going to shoot down an animation like Evangelion at least have something better as an example of what works. Evangelion transcends ANY sci-fi I have watched since 2001(the film). Anyone who does not understand it's references or considers them as shallow, simply does not understand the show. Which is to be expected in the US, where all that counts are the number of explosions and pairs of tits.
This is one of the best series anime has to offer
No, it's not. As is repeatedly demonstrated with other genres and other media, just because something is popular doesn't mean that it's not tripe.
and it's not THAT great.
Yes, NGE isn't that great. However, it does have the ability to appeal to a wide range of people. I related to it because I empathize with Shinji; I understand the mindfuck at the end. That doesn't mean that I think it's the best or even really that good.
You obviously don't know anything about anime then.
Anime is a different entertainment medium just like any other; it has its highlights and its disappointments. So to criticize a whole medium based off of your limited and misconceived knowledge is pretty dumb.
I can't believe you have the nerve to say that neon genesis can't compare to star wars. Maybe its not as good as IV, V, VI but I, II, III are some of the worst movies ever created so evangelion is light years beyond that mindless filth.
I also thought the original ending was pretty lame... but if you add to it the re-done, arguably "real" ending seen in End of Evangelion, it's great! Really harrowing, and leaves you scratching your head with that "what the fuck?" feeling you get after seeing "2001: A Space Odyssey" for the first time. (Interestingly enough, that article includes at least one screen cap from End of Evangelion, without ever mentioning that exists and wasn't part of the original 26 episodes.)
Yeah, a lot of the religious stuff in Evangelion seems tacked-on. It's more accurately described as "pseudo-religious" anyway, because aside from stealing a bunch of names from old Christian mythology it doesn't really have much of anything to do with Christianity. That's OK, though -- it makes it interesting. I'll take a show that even pretends to make you think, as some people are accusing Evangelion of, than one that doesn't even try at all. Patrick McGoohan's "The Prisoner" is another show that comes to mind that's vulnerable to a lot of criticism, but if you watch it with an open mind it can be very rewarding.
The psychoanalytical stuff in Evangelion is more interesting than the religious stuff. A lot of people here describe it as "Freudian," but while I don't know a whole lot about the various schools of psychoanalysis, I don't know if that's strictly accurate. What it does do is try to get inside the heads of these characters in a way that is, at times, profoundly disturbing (if you've managed to pay attention through the whole show).
One thing that's probably lost on a lot of American, non-otaku audiences, though, is that much of what was going on in Evangelion was meant to be sort of a criticism of otaku culture. Early episodes of Evangelion regularly feature teasers of the next episode that promise lots of "fan service" and seem to make it clear that it's meant to be the ultimate show for fans. But the later, more psychological episodes try to delve in to the characters' minds, many of whom have personality traits that the producers of the show thought were common in anime fandom in Japan.
The long and the short of it: That joke about Slashdot people living in their parents' basements, watching anime? That's how the creator of Evangelion saw anime fandom, basically.
The main character of Evangelion, Shinji, is extremely introverted in a way that a lot of Japanese anime fans are. He can't connect with girls, or with anyone really. He feels his parents can't understand him, and has a bad relationship with him. Then he discovers that he can pilot this giant robot and it makes him feel worthwhile. His fellow pilots have this same feeling too; they begin to feel worthless if they are no longer able to fly the giant robots. In that sense, you could say the purpose of the larger pseudo-religious conspiracy storyline going on in the background is really just to point out, Meanwhile there's a whole big world going on out there. All the characters are just too wrapped up in themselves and their angst to see it at first. Shinji's main character arc is his discovery of himself as an individual and coming to terms with what it means to be an adult living in the world.
This subject matter isn't going to appeal to everyone. If you aren't interested in fun stories about cool-looking giant robots battling alien monsters, then the first few episodes aren't going to appeal to you at all. But if you can't get that far, then the later episodes are going to seem hollow, silly, and contrived. Basically, though Evangelion has a broad audience, if there's no part of y
Breakfast served all day!
I mustn't run away! I mustn't run away! I mustn't run away! I mustn't run away! I mustn't run away!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Whiny shinji.
I remember one of the highlights of my trip to the states (from the UK) in 2001 was going round the dvd and comic shops looking for NGE on DVD, and i spent all my traveling money on the complete set as there were no plans to release it on dvd in the UK. The first 2 DVDs having 4 episodes which was ok, but 3 on the rest was a little steep, considering the last 2 episodes being a wonder in no-budget production.
I also picked up the first DVD of serial experiment lain, but thats another story...
An interesting thought. I've mentioned already that I think of Shinji as an archetype of what geeks hate in themselves. But that's my own impression of Shinji, as a foreign geek watching Evangelion in isolation.
Looking at him in the Japanese cultural context from which he came, might Shinji be on the borderline of becoming a hikikomori ? Look at his position: his father is distant and entirely consumed with his work, he himself has great difficulty coping with the unrealistic pressures placed upon him both by his family and by the system, and he's almost completely unable to deal with social situations...
He's run away more than once, and he frequently shuts himself up in his room, then further cuts out the outside world with headphones. He's getting worse with time. Now there are two ways it can go; either Shinji comes out and rejoins society, or he shuts himself in for good. Except, of course, that the critical point is Third Impact, and if Shinji turns hikikomori then he doesn't so much shut himself off from the world, as liquidate the entire species... Personally I'd prefer the happy smiling CONGRATULATIONS! ending.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Are you kidding me? I know more people globally that dislike the show than like it!
yup... they beat it to death. And its a frank sinatra song no less.
The CD's are pretty good.
That says more about you than the show.
It's easy to say "if you don't like it's just because you don't understand it." But that's a cop out. I enjoyed all the creative use of various religious dogmas and mythology. I was impressed they managed to push some of them together to fit with the story, but as I said in a previous post, this was mostly accidental.
It is poorly written, and poorly executed. You ask for examples of things that are better. I'd say most things. Do you want something specificly dealing with the same existentialist vs nihlistic themes? Or do you need something heavily laced with judeo christian mysticisms?
Just because it's japanese, has psudeo religious overtones, doesn't make it good.
"Excel Saga" is the full name
Klingon programs don't timeshare, they battle for supremacy.
It's more accurately described as "pseudo-religious" anyway, because aside from stealing a bunch of names from old Christian mythology it doesn't really have much of anything to do with Christianity.
... just like Christianity itself, eh? :)
So
I mean, isn't Bush an Evangelical? And, I don't want to give the plot away, but I will... Angels decend to Earth then everyone flies up to the sky in the RAPTURE. I remember when Bush was asked recentley if the he believed the Apocalypse was destined and he didn't answer... that was 100 x more scarey than Evangelion. This is only one example of the awesome amount of mythology found in Evangelion. And the vast amount of the mythology is Christian and Jewish ie. very relivant to the US. It really makes you analyse how messed up western religion is (also).
I pity you.
Any references you have of a popular series dealing with any of the themes you have mentioned would be very interesting. The only one that comes to my mind is the Da Vince Code.
Evangelion is actually what got me back into anime. I grew up on Battle of the Planets and Robotech and I was glad to actually have some anime that messed with my mind more and actually had a descent dubbing/subtitling going for it. I like Akira too but that never made much sense until they got around to dubbing/subbing the full version of the movie.
I just picked up the platinum thinpak at Christmas time (for only $40 and its the US release) and I throughly enjoyed watching it all the way through again. Its one of those things you have to experience, not sit around pontificating about some hidden meaning that isn't there. Now, I just need to pickup those movies; its been quite a while since I saw them because I saw them when the fansubs first hit over here.
eveversion4 -- "Eating Ramen that tastes really bad can be kind of fun too." Haruko, FLCL
In fact, they weren't robots at all. Labeling them as such is actually very misleading and contradictory to the plot. If I were to label them anything, cyborg is probably the closest word I'd use to describe them, and even that's not really very accurate. I can't say further without spoiling anything for folks who may or may not have watched or read anything related to the series.
The Evas are very, very important to the plot. They aren't just some mechs that were added in just for the coolness factor (though they certainly do add that). There is a very lengthy background concerning their creation, origin, and ultimate purpose. The fact that most people will watch maybe the first handful of episodes and then dismiss it as nothing more than a "mechs kill shit" series leads to the wrong ideas about what this series actually is. The Evas aren't just used for killing humanity's enemies. They're used in both political and personal agendas, and oddly enough, the Evas, well, damn, almost gave something else away.
I made it a point to watch the entire series several times to try and pick up on things I missed. End of Evangelion pretty much confirmed a lot of my suspicions about the true motivations behind the simultaneous projects going on, almost all of which were connected somehow. Granted, it went almost a bit too far with the "what the hell?" mindfuck aspect near the end of the movie, but it was an interesting picture and merely one person's interpretation of Judeo-Christian themes.
So, to dismiss this series as "just another giant robot anime" is pretty short-sighted, in my humble opinion. I'll admit that it takes a while for it to really get started, but when it does, it runs full-on.
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
Wow.. nevermind, didn't realize what I Was dealing with here, my bad.
You can't go judging all of anime based on just one series.
Despite its problems, there are some interesting elements in Eva. It's just unfortunate that the execution of the show leaves...something...to be desired.
The show did run out of time and money - something that happens quite often. After all, Eva was being marketed as a TV series product - not as a piece of art.
Eva wasn't even the first show that the studio had problems with regarding money or time... The story goes, that one of their earlier works was a direct-to-video series called Gunbuster (which STILL hasn't been released on DVD in the US. GRRRR!) ran out of time and money. So, they took a risk and released the final episode in black and white. This time they got lucky. The dark look of the epiosde worked well and helped underscore the desparation the characters faced.
In the case of Eva, they weren't so lucky. The main writer had suffered a nervous breakdown, and the TV stations were demanding that the show be wrapped up on time.
At any rate, you should not - and can not - judge all of anime by just one or two series. You must remember that anime is not a single genre intended for a single audience. Just like with American TV and movies, there are different genres and different audiences.
And despite what you may think, there are plenty of good stories being told via anime. Unfortunatly, there's also a lot of garbage out there. But if you keep an open mind and keep looking, I'm sure you'll find something.
I would put forth Cowboy Bebop as a show you should look into. It's perhaps one of the best titles for introducing the potential that the medium can accomplish. It's not a kid show, but isn't hyper-violent and graphic like Akira. While it does incorporate some sci-fi elements, it's really just a human drama that deals with a wide variety of issues while not being "too Japanese" in its philosophies or actions. And, finally, it has an excellent English voice-over.
Remember kids, When offered to pilot the giant mecha the answer is always "yes", not "waaaaah waaaaaaah, daddy didn't love me". Freeking whiney little waste! Daddy just offered you a GIANT MECHA, this should more then make up for all the time he missed Little League while he was busy SAVING THE WORLD! Did Rick Hunter shy away from the Veritech when it crashed in his neighborhood, never!! Did Wildstar dodge the draft and cry when he had to serve on the Yamato, nay, he volunteered!! This is how good decent Anime characters should act.
Sorry I have mentally blocked out episodes I,II,III.. you're right about those. Anime is just another medium, but I think there is a greater percentage of bad anime than bad stuff in other areas.. films, etc. Also there aren't even what I would consider a few good ones that make it all worth it in the same way that Hollywood isn't all Hellboy (and I enjoyed Hellboy). I am pretty familiar with anime, I gave it a lot of chances before I stopped looking.. because I figured there had to be something good. One concession I will make is that maybe it's the translations. Half of dialog gets translated to "huh?", so there must be *something* missing that could make the other half not seem so idiotic. I haven't kept up with Anime in the last 5-6 years. Anything decent come out in that time? Anything older that you recommend? Please don't say lain pleasedontsaylain pleasedontsaylain.
Everything you wanted and didn't want to know about Eva.
http://www.evacommentary.org/
If you want a series similar to Evagelion, I suggest checking out RahXephon. In my opinion it's vastly superior to Neon Genesis in almost every way. Better artwork, better story (and more understandable), less annoying characters and some decent humor. Oh, and giant frickin' robots. Where would anime be without giant robots? RahXephon also has a lot of symbolism and mystery, and a lot of things that really set it apart from NGE. I shouldn't give anything away. I'm only on episode 20 myself...
Electric Monkey Pants
It's about an emo kid trying to get laid.
Very good series, but way way WAY deep down it doesn't change much from that.
Perl, n. A language spoken by Eskimos.
Cowboy Bebop was entertaining, forgot about that one, but I think I would still consider that on the level of a good hollywood campy action flick. I did like Princess Mononoke... actually I think I sort of forgot that that was Anime. Is it considered Anime by real fans or is it categorized with mainstreem cartoons? Metropolis had some merits.. a lot of great visuals and art, but the story was pretty predictable and also didn't make sense at some points (if I remember right). Maybe it's not fair to compare Anime to film.. looking for a Casablanca or Star Wars; I guess I am looking for an example of anime where it's good in all aspects. Most anime has moments which don't make a lot of sense and I think that is what kills a lot of them for me. Is that mostly the translation or a cultural thing.. or maybe an Anime thing?
It was good for the first half, even with Shinji's whining. The last half wasn't art, it was just a steaming pile of penguin poo. The so call depth was mainly from confusion, and the contrast between the earlier episodes and the later. The plot has since been re-done significantly better in several different Anime since (RahXephon for one). Compared to all the incredible shows I've seen (Monster, or Trigun for example), Eva is sorely lacking in everything but that "wtf' feeling.
There's a lot of "Eva sucks" posts here at the moment. They're right of course; Eva featured some pretty awful characters, crashed and burned on the ending etc. But the point of the article isn't that Eva was a fantastic work of literature. Rather, Eva was the genesis of a new form of shows, unafraid of losing the children's audience in the pursuit of creating something wonderful. Whether Eva itself accomplished this is moot; the point is that it inspired a broad following within the author's community to create new and wonderful things.
Think of it this way: without Eva, FLCL couldn't have been made.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
Ill be putting it on the 'acquisition device' tonight thanks.
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I don't mean to troll, but I find zero appeal in the show. It falls in the category I call "psuedo-literature,"
1- You are trolling: Going in a thread about a show and saying "this show sucks and people who like it are dumb", even if obfuscated in a lot of big words, is trolling.
2- Literature is for books. This is a television show. You just wrote 4 paragraphs about how you don't think a televesion show is litterature. Four paragraphs based on an obvious fallacy!
The complexity is internalized in the characters; the plot itself is simple.
That statement applies perfectly to Neon Genesis Evangelion.
The plot itself is simple: Giant monsters attack, people fight back with giant robots.
The complexity is internalised in the characters, such as the father who murdered his wife but is now having sex with her adolescent clones while he recklessly uses his son to further his own agenda, also murdering his mistress along the way.
You, sir, did not "get it". And as a snob, instead of admitting you didn't get it, you started a long trollish tirade about how a television show is not literature. Congradulations on sucessfully subverting the moderation system.
You can't take the sky from me...
I agree completely with your post. Very well said.
(except the "zero appeal"... I think it's still got some appeal, even if only for the angel battles)
It seems to me that NGE fell prey to "X-files syndrome":
Just keep hinting at something.
You have no idea what this something is, per se, but *wink**wink* *nudge**nudge* it's a HUGE secret. Big hints, little hints, obscure hints...all sorts of hints; but, and this is the important part, the writers have no big picture in mind.
@ASP.NET's parent-teacher meeting: "Little Johnny.NET is very bright, but he doesn't play well with others."
Other Good animes:
Series:
Trigun -humour, violence (though not much from the 'peace and love' hero Vash)
Crest of stars -not great animation, but good story and dialog
Key the Metal Idol
strange:
magic shopping arcade
betterman
and of course anything by Miyazaki -esp for those who are not into robots and mecha
Lately AZN, the asian network has had some interesting anime, including record of lodoss war.
It seems as though G4/techtv is not showing nearly as much anime as they used to -too bad, that was where shopping arcade, silent moibus, crest of stars and many other interesting ones were shown.
and for those who like their anime cute and feudal, there's still Inuyasha on Cartoon Network.
anime is no more about a single genre/type than is lilve action movies and they often address interesting themes and moral questions which live action could never or would never do.
-What's the speed of dark?
Another good anime series with "Teh funny" is All-Purpose Cultural Catgirl Nuku Nuku OAV and Nuku Nuku TV. Avoid Nuku Nuku Dash! because that's an attempt to play Nuku Nuku straight and you lose the point of the whole series when you do that. The original OAV was done in 1992, the TV series was done in 1998. Both date from well before Excel Saga and FLCL but I think they are better and funnier and a more accurate spoof of anime than either of those. Nuku Nuku is voiced by Hayashibara Megumi, the June Foray of Japan, and is one of her best vocal performances. She also sings the songs, and in the TV series the songs featured her lyrics.
ADV buried the DVD releases like so much kitty excreta in the litterbox. Too bad, it rocks. You can probably find it remaindered really cheap now.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
You can get the platinum collection DVDs for $45 at Amazon with free shipping. The fact that I paid that much for four episodes on VHS makes me cry.
IMHO the current Manga market has less to do with "Old Hardcore Otaku" series and more to do with Men introducing their Girlfriends to things like "Cardcaptor Sakura" as a way to ease them into the truth about their Hentai stash.
After anime series like "Sailor Moon" and "Cardcaptor Sakura", both of which are based off of Manga, got market share the much lusted after and hitherto nearly non-existent female comic book market was open to conquest.
For maximum effect, read the parent post as Comic Book Guy!
I really liked RahXephon. The music in particular was pretty great, and the role of music in the story was pretty darn interesting I thought. I thought it wrapped up pretty well in the end too-- better than Eva at any rate (though I saw Eva after RahXephon)... But don't forget that these things were 1) a TV *series*, that could extend for additional seasons, and 2) were based on Mangas that are often serializations as well. Plots of these things are often not concieved more than one or two episodes in advance. So if the plot gets funky now and then, that should be no particular surprise. Do you get pissed off if the last Star-Trek TV episode of the season doesn't wrap everything up neatly?
The reason many people think Eva is shit is not because they're not Japanese. It's because people honestly believe it sucks and that the people who like the series are shallow people full of themselves that really need to go read a real book or two.
You cannot be 99% cyborg. You can be %1 human and %99 robot, but a cyborg is both simultaneously as a whole.
I'm a moderate anime fan. I did watch the whole original
EVA series and thought the first half was OK and then
derailed into an incoherent mess.
Much, much better is "Millennium Actress".
is my current favorite for a very well rounded anime experience. Not only are the visuals stunning, there are some serious grappling with the puzzle of identity and how it is to be controlled or to control others. I suspect that it's been underrated in the west because it's primarily viewed through the cyberpunk filter and the more philosophical aspects overlooked.
When I say that, I don't mean that there's no new and original material. I simply mean that the stories we see, hear, and tell unavoidably share common traits. Most stories, for example, will have a protagonist with an antagonist (either a character or a situation), and the protagonist will go through a try-fail cycle until the end, when success comes at last and the antagonist is dealt with. Look at most any story, and you'll find that type of structure.
Evangelion does share a lot of common traits, at a superficial level, with other so-called "giant robot" anime. But by that standard, "An American Werewolf in London" (a great movie) is the same as "The Howling IV" (a...er...not so great movie). Yes, werewolf stories have been done before, but obviously they're not all equal.
I use what I like to think of as the "Yawn Quotient." If I'm watching a movie or anime and it has a high YQ, then it's chalk-full of exactly the same generic dreck you're talking about. Evangelion is a low YQ show for me. An example why: At the beginning of the series, Shinji goes into the Eva unit absolutely terrified, and is unable to fight effectively. Then the Eva freaks out, goes berserk, and does this eerie howl. Then it practically eats the Angel. "Holy shit," I thought. "I've got shivers down my spine."
Now that was an entirely cosmetic moment in Evangelion, but it definitely set it apart from generic big robot anime. These robots were weirdly animalistic, possibly intelligent, definitely malevolent, and only barely controlled. It granted them a whole new level of menace and interest that kept me glued to the screen.
There are no new stories. But if the story is told well, that doesn't matter.
You mean like Asuka or Toji?
You need contrasting personalities for a story to work. An important part of the plot was Shinji's development - when he saves Asuka from the lava, and when his father is pushing him to be the leader on the team, basically he's just a somewhat average kid whose mother was dead and whose father didn't care...he had lived alone for years doing nothing and now he had to save the planet and had no choice if he was to do the right thing. The story just wouldn't have worked without Shinji's personality being what it was.
Evangelion was the saddest series I've ever seen, due to all of the character's lives being destroyed. I didn't really expect the last 5 episodes to rip everything apart. I thought I'd need therapy after the final episode and was glad it was over. But overall Evangelion WAS good and deserves a top spot as one of the best anime series.
Any references you have of a popular series dealing with any of the themes you have mentioned would be very interesting.
Why does it have to be popular, and why does it have to be a series?
Try reading Wise Blood by Flannery O'Connor. It's got some of those themes. And some funny bits too.
just because you grew up with Walt Disney doesn't mean that all things animated are for kids.
Actually, Evangelion was initially marketed to teens, and its principal sponsors were toy companies.
link
Around Slashdot there is a peculiar myth that it's normal in Japan for adults to watch cartoon shows about giant robots.
But don't kid yourself. Japan is not so different from the US. These things are intended for children and teenagers. The vast majority of adults are not interested in watching these shows.
Of course there are (geeks / nerds / otaku) who continue (watching anime / reading comic books / playing D&D) well into adulthood. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. But don't get fooled into thinking that most adults pursue the otaku lifestyle, whether in Japan or anywhere else.
I'm a BIG NGE fan whom happened to stumble upon this article, SWEET! BTW, the new manga is called "Girlfriend of Steel" or "Iron Maiden". And to all you whom hate EVA, f&#* off. GAINAX has made some of the best. EVA was the ORIGINAL modern-day mecha. Don't be playa' hatin'. You wouldn't have Eureka 7, some Gundam, Nadesico, or RahXephon without it! -Morris
"If you don't understand it [Neon Genesis Evangelion], its' your own damn fault." -Anno Hideaki
One thing alot of the "eva sucks" posts are missing is that the series was *supposed* to be a franchise for kids. Really, they just wanted to make toys from it. But somehow Anno got ahold of it, and while the deepness of it and whether certain things are superficial or add to the mood and atmosphere is debatable, it certainly broke the mold for... pretty much everything. It wouldn't of been notable at all except for the changes made, and it was a mishmash of design, so I give it props for what it does well father than where it supposedly slips.
Certain aspects of it are really amazingly cool, and I think the live action eva movies have great potential. I have almost no faith that potential will be fufilled, but the concept art looks great and I wish I were in charge of it. Make Shinji less of a whiny pussy but still downtrodden (perhaps knock their ages up to, say 17 or 18?), make some parts less corny but still funny, a little dialogue editing to clarify what is going on and why it happend and make characters seem believable and reduce the immature angstiness, a little work on certain action scenes, and it could be freakishly kick ass and epic. It's ideas like this that make me want to go into the film industry (yeah, that's right, I DO think I could do a better job than most movies, although it would be a while before I could seriously try to). I probably wouldn't start with this though...
It is very much a love/don't get/hate series. I rank it up with Cowboy Bebop, but consider Bebop better because of its universal appeal. Bebop is not everyone's favorite of all time, but I don't know anyone that has seen a good amount of it and doesn't like it.
On a side note, I also really like Haibane Renmei (yeah, I'm a guy, say whatever but I like it. Fuck you.), Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and Miyazaki's work.
For the record, I hate long and popular series ESPECIALLY DBZ, Inu-yasha (DBZ for girls! Better when it was called Fushigi-Yugi!), and Naruto. GITS and SAC have some cool stuff but aren't really good.
Anime sucks as much as American movies and TV, but has its gems too, and combine both gem piles together and you've got a nice selection. I really don't like much of it at all, but what I do like stands up to anything from Hollywood or on cable.
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
Nitpicking: Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained have very little in common with the Divine Comedy.
If I'm watching a movie or anime and it has a high YQ, then it's chalk-full of exactly the same generic dreck you're talking about.
The correct compound is chock-full . I mention this only for information, reserving my scorn for perpetrators of the most egregious malaprops, such as those who dare say that this is better then that.
Yeah, right, troll. Your mum's a giant robot.
And she smells so bad they call her funk the Absolute Terror Field. Nobody can enter the Absolute Terror Field!
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
The second time the analysis result is:
Y'know, I think that cat was actually sent by OCP.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
I can honestly say, with very VERY few exceptions, there has not been a book I have read that is better than Evangelion. Evangelion may have shocking production values, may lose sight of the plot, may not have enough rei, etc... But it's better than a lot of the tired rehashed pretentious crap that makes its way into litereature. I can still remember how schocked/amazed/wtf'd I was after watching the Series and End of Evangelion... Brilliant
'Mainichi Daily News'? So that's 'Daily Daily News', then? Bit like 'PIN number', that one...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Ok. I like the series when I first saw it 10 years ago. I picked up the DVDs two months ago and spent a weekend and watch it again. Just so happen that I was doing some readings on Intelligence Design. I felt that there are some implications of Intelligence Design embedded in the series. Well, regardless, the series is pretty entertaining for manga fan.
I don't know what nitpicking sounds like, but I imagine it isn't very loud, whereas your post sounded like a "whoosh" at 100 decibels.
English is easier said than done.
Before the run of Neon Genesis, the primary icons of Japanese anime (series like Dragon Ball, Gundam, Urusei Yatsura, Astro Boy, Transformers) were based around characters who innately had strong moral groundings from the start of the series and featured little character development over their runs. Instead, most of the focus in previous titles was on growing intensity of situations within the characters' worlds (for example, Goku in Dragon Ball faced progressively stronger opponents in increasingly ridiculous conditions, while as a character he didn't develop his strong sense of justice).
Much like the few highly-acclaimed titles before it (namely Akira), Neon Genesis was entirely different to the current Anime market. Shinji, Asuka, Rei and the supporting cast relied on themselves and each other to tackle physical and emotional obstacles, and oftentimes failed. In addition, Shinji started as a weak, self-pitying individual who was forced to grow and adapt to his situation; he was far more identifiable with the audience than other leads in the previous twenty years of Anime. Contrary to the many righteous characters of previous series, he was spiteful, reserved and perverted - something that was pretty much unique given the time. Graphically, the series isn't stunning but you've gotta appreciate the fact that the series is so introspective and focused on humanity and interaction between typical Japanese characters.
As for people who question the value of an article celebrating 10 years of NGE, I implore you to realise that the series has been extremely influential in Anime for this past decade, in that it set the stage for new series to pay more attention to the concept of 'self' and the development of characters rather than circumstances.
So yeah. If you ran a NERV logo up a flagpole, I'd still salute it these days.
Here's my interpretation:
Billions of years ago, an advanced alien civilization launched giant spheres into space to spread life to other planets. The spheres contains different kinds of "seed". The thought was, one sphere for every planet. On Earth, however, we got two - one in Japan, one on the South Pole. The Japanese seed is a giant, snow-white, naked "woman" ("homo sapiens"-ish). The one on the pole looks like a giant monster, reminiscent of the original alien civilization. The giant in Japan creates weak life in diversity and multitude (mainly humans, but possibly all other life we know on earth). The giant on the South Pole, also female (possibly there is no male counterpart), laid eggs that were to hibernate for thousands of years, hatching to super-powerful giants with infinite energy supplies and the ability to shape-shift.
Humans thousands of years ago knew something about this. The "missing pieces" of the Dead Sea Scrolls were taken by a secret organization. The scrolls tells them that when the South Pole giant and it's children awaken, they will have to fight over the Earth (one seed per planet, remember?). The giant on the South Pole is called Adam, the one in Japan is Lilith (they are related to the Adam/Lilith/Eva-stories in name only). Researchers went to the South Pole, found Adam, and tried to revert it into a fetal state so it could be hidden or used. In the process, when using the Spear of Longinus (a failsafe device probably found with Lilith), Adam awakened, and unleashed a whole lot of energy and an anti-AT-field. Personally, I suspect the field removes cellular walls, and the wish for the "soul" to remain with the body (or some other mumbo jumbo). The field made it so that all life, even bacteria, died on the South Pole. But they at least got Adam in a tiny form. A doctor Katsuragi was there, but manages to save his daughter Misato.
The secret organization, SEELE, uses the UN to fund and control some projects and sub-organizations, like Gehirn. This is for two reasons: To beat the "aliens", and to remake humanity. A college professor, Fuyutsuki, is asked to help their projects. One of his students, Yui Ikari (a daughter of a SEELE-member; she knows their plan) starts dating Gendo Rokobungi. Gendo does it to get into the project, but falls in love for real. They marry and have a son, Shinji. To make Lilith their puppet, they extract her "soul", while SEELE extracts the soul from Adam. Gehirn uses Adam's genes with Lilith, and "pull" the result out from her (kind of like a birth, with the result of her losing mass: her legs). These are the Evangelion units. They experiment with controlling the Evas, using the "menstrual" fluids from Lilith as a contact medium. Somehow, the test pilot Yui Ikari willfully disappears into the Eva-01, and only her dissolved remains are found. This is part of her personal plan to take control of humanity's future. With her remains, Gendo Ikari creates Rei, a Yui-clone, and infuses the soul-less puppet with Lilith's soul. A computer scientist, Naoko Akagi, creates the MAGI super-computers, but falls in love with Gendo, and kills herself when hearing the truth of how he's using her from Rei - whom Naoko first strangles to death. Gendo makes a new Rei, and employ Akagi's daughter Ritsuko, who happens to be college friends with Misato. After Yui disappeared in 2004, Gendo's son was sent away for ten years. 2015 he wants him back to control Unit-01, because successful controlling of the "robots" require a mother-child relationship between the pilot and the soul inside the robot.
So Adam's spawn awaken, and try to get where they think Adam is - in Nerv's headquarters. The Eva defeats all obstacles - angels - including the boy with Adam's soul in him. SEELE gets pissed off when they learn of Gendo's personal plan (he just wants to be see Yui again), so they attack Nerv. Rei/Lilith refuses to help Gendo, but wants to help Shinji instead, so she fuses with the body of Lilith and fetal-Adam, offering control of the "rebirth" to Yui/Shinji. An anti-AT-f
Tried episode 1. Well, its humor is too 'dark' for my taste.
Read radical news here
Would you (or anyone reading this) happen to know WTF is up with the "water droplet" segway I keep seeing in anime?
I think people are missing the point here a bit. The significance of Evangelion goes a long way beyond it being a reasonably good anime series. If that was all that it had going for it, then it wouldn't have been as popular for as long as it has been.
The fact is that Evangelion changed the whole market. It proved that you could be successful by focusing on characters, and more importantly dealing with mature, adult situations. This is not to say that there weren't a number of serious anime series that predated it - Gundam comes to mind as an example - but Evangelion truly was a revolution in terms of style in the medium. Add to that the fact that it was pretty much the first thing to make a killing by merchandising the characters, rather than having a huge amount of robots to build model kits from (the Bandai approach) and you realise that, while it may not be that good, it was one of the most significant milestones in the development of just about every aspect of modern anime, both the good and the bad. It may be a bit of a right-place-at-the-right-time thing - if Evangelion hadn't been there, something else certainly would have come along.
Unfortunately both ADV Films and Gainax have flogged the series mercilessly. It was the first production by Gainax to have actually made a profit, and I think at this point re-releasing it in box sets over and over is about all that is keeping ADV afloat after their drunken license-everything-we-can anime binge a few years back and the general failure of their Anime network.
I would consider Mononoke to be an anime production as it was produced originally for a Japanese audience.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by most anime has moments that don't make sense. I find that a lot (most, actually) of stories have moments like that - and it's not just in anime.
Although your point about anime and culture/translation is an important one to keep in mind. This isn't an American production you're watching, so sometimes the characters are going to say/do things that might not make sense from a purely American point of view.
That said, there are a lot of interesting movies out there:
* Grave Of The Fireflies. Do not watch alone. Do not watch without a box of tissues. And, yes, they still make that candy in the very same tin... Oh, and if that wasn't depressing enough, try a double feature of 'Barefoot no Gen'...
* Patlabor (3 movies). Sequels to the TV series about a near-future police force where robotic suits (mainly for construction) have just been introduced. So, what happens when one of these suits (called Labors) is used in a crime? The police break out their Labor, of course! While the TV series was pretty light hearted, the movies are completely different - delving into the realm of the serious (Japanese) cop-drama.
* Wings Of Honneamise. On another planet, against the backdrop of politics and war, a man volunteers to be the first human in space - and in so doing, is forced to deal with internal conflicts as old as man himself. Note: be sure you don't get the censored/editted version of this film - yes, it's the one with that confusing scene in it...you'll know the one when you see it.
* Ghost In The Shell (movies first, then TV). In the near future, the line between machine and soul ("ghost") has become blurred. Come experience Masumune Shirow's latest translator-destroying essays on existance, politics, terrorism, technology, and more all neatly wrapped up as an action flick... You may want to track down the manga (comics) for this one... He loves cramming statements and little essays in between the panels which give you a better understanding of what the characters are talking about. Also check out his other titles - Dominion and Appleseed.
* Memories. Memories is actually a collection of 3 short films. The other two are OK, but Magnetic Rose is the one you really want to watch. When the crew of a salvage vessel come across a strange ship in the asteroid belt, they end up being drawn into the tragic past of the ship's famous former inhabitant...
* Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer. Ok, I'm only half joking here. On the one hand, this really is a great movie - which was later ripped off and remade into Dark City. On the other hand, you'll literally need a degree in Japanese studies to fully understand most of the themes here... Urusei Yatsura was a very popular, very zany, and VERY Japanese TV anime series about an alien girl who - for complicated reasons - thinks she's married to a total dope of a Japanese high school student. With a cast made up of zany characters, cariactures, aliens, and mythical beings (mainly from Japanese myths) there is no such thing as an "ordinary day" for this show... The movie centers on the class preparing for the annual Cultural Festival as a series of mysterious disappearances begin taking place around town...
Shinji is almost autistic in his inability to relate to other people, something that manifests in the "absolute terror" field he uses to keep everything else away from him. Asuka desperately looks in everyone she meets for the confirmation of her value that her mother was unable to give her. Rei is a teenage clone that knows what she is, but that doesn't make the molestation she experiences anything easier to deal with.
None of which is to say you're wrong in not having enjoyed it - you've pretty much outlined my initial take of the series - more that I found it to be an incredibly consistent story when I focused on what I see as the "true" story: how do you retain your humanity when you have to keep adapting to survive in an increasingly complex society?
Dunno if you'll see this or not, but here goes my opinion...
I'm assuming you mean an actual water droplet - and not the comical sweat drop you see stuck to people's head when something stupid/silly/awkward happens.
The image of a water droplet landing in a pool causing ripples is supposed to signify that events (or people) - no matter how small - have consequences. In this case, the "event" is the droplet, and the "consequences" are the ripples. You could also consider it to mean that one person (droplet) can totally disrupt or distort the status quo (a still pool of water).
It could also be about "change" in general. It could I don't want to change, but change is inevitable (you are the still water, forced into motion with the droplet) It could be you want to cause a change (you are the droplet), or it could even be that change causes you to become something else (the droplet causes the still pool to become rippled)
Finally, as an exercise to the reader, what about the possible interpretations of the ripples stopping after a droplet fell in?
Read into it what you will based on what's going on in the show, but I think it usually signifies that a change is about to happen. It could be an inner revelation, or the start of an important action.
That's probably it. It's the best (and most coherent) explination I've ever recieved.