Slashdot Mirror
Can You Survive Long Commutes?
Should I Be a Frequent Flier asks: "I am currently considering a job offer in an Aerospace company, and suffice it to say, I am very excited. Unfortunately, there is a catch - I would have to fly to work. While this may seem appropriate for an Aerospace job, it might not be appropriate for a married life, as it would require that I spend two or three nights a week away from my family. This is a big step, and I don't want to pass up a wonderful opportunity, but I don't what to wreck my marriage for a job. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of arrangement, either pro or con?"
MOVE!!!
Pretty much any place in the country has the same services you have where you live. Nice people exist called real estate agents that can help you with this, if you happen to own your home.
It'll kill your relationship with your family. Don't do it man..
MTW
Can't you move? Maybe we need more details
I don't mean to be so obvious, but really...if the opportunity is worth it (sounds like it is), then move. I know pulling children out of schools, or asking your spouse to find a different job seems cruel and unfair, but it happens. I've been through the cross-country move-for-a-job thing twice now. It sucks, I won't lie to you, but it will wear on you far less in the long run than trying to commute like that and not have time with your spouse.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Why are you asking me? I'm not your wife/husband. They're the only other person who could tell you if this job would wreck your family.
Maybe its because I put a high value on my family, but I would never take a job that required me to be away from them with such regularity. You're talking about missing a quarter or more of their lives. No amount of money is worth that.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
People lose more than half of their lives (along with time that could be spent with family/friends) by working full-time jobs. This is how most people have chosen to live their lives.
I have a better idea. Clone yourself. Did you see Multiplicity? Michael Keaton was, as usual, hilarious, but more importantly, he had the right idea. One of you can go to work, one of you can take care of the kids, one of you can have sex with your wife, etc. I'll let you figure it out amongst yourself who gets to do what, but I believe this is the solution you're looking for.
There are many professions where people spend extended periods away from home. If you're only spending a few days a time away from home, my reaction is "Not so bad". Having said that, it seems like getting off the road can be hard. I used to spend months away from home and it took years and two steps backward in pay before I was able to get a job that I liked and that got me home every evening.
My advice: If it's your dream job, take it. It's not that hard to work around the details.
As usual, the answer depends on a few things.
The most important one, I think, has to do with what stage your marriage/family is at. If the kid(s) is/are young, don't do it.
Assuming your family situation/schedule is such that you can dissappear two or three days a week without seriously screwing things up, your wife is the next factor.
Even if your wife is currently "okay" with the idea, it might not last. Her family history is extremely relevant to this discussion. All kinds of psychological issues might crop up while/because you're gone.
Marriage counseling is a smart move, no matter what you decide.
If you go ahead with the job, you need to figure out, in advance, what problems you might have and how to deal with them. If you don't take the job, make sure you aren't going to resent the fact that your wife had some role in keeping you from it.
The alternative, if the kids are young, is to move.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
There's no golden rule. What works for somebody else might be perfect for you or the worst possible thing you could do. The most important thing is to be honest and open and trust your wife to be the same. Talk it over with her and come to some kind of understanding. The worst thing would be having to sit down again six months later and one of you say something like 'I thought I could handle it, so I didn't say anything before, but I really didn't want you to take this job.' That's when you're in trouble. Also, be open to change. You might think you'll be OK and find out a few months in that you're not or vice-versa. Be open and honest and you have a better than average chance of things working out.
I've always pictured the color of OS zealotry as a sort of bright flamingo pinkish hue
Honestly, if moving isn't an option (as it may well not be), slashdotters aren't the ones you should be asking. You really should talk about it with your wife.
Sounds like someone's flying those unmarked planes from JANE to Groom Lake....
That sounds an awful lot like Area 51. Supposedly the airplanes don't have windows.
So no, he can't move there.
when you say aerospace company, I bet that means you will be flying to different sites around the world, not a particular work spot. I think that most slashdotters are speaking from their experience where they've been asked to move where the company is, but that doesn't really apply here.
I know one boeing engineer who flies to the middle east and africa on a regular basis to help with sales. He seems ok with it, but has drawn a firm line as regards how many hours he's willing to spend at work and how much time he's willing to spend overseas. I've been told he's refused promotions several times that would have required too much time out off his family life.
My suggestion is that when you are in town, make sure you aren't working overtime, and that you get home to spend time with your family. I'd also explore the option of bringing your family along on vacations once in a while (I don't know how practical this is though...).
If you still don't get enough time with your family, I suggest starting new families at the various locations you fly to. If you marry the right people you might even turn a profit and be able to quit your job and be a husband full time.
I can really speak from my own experience. Just do it. You don't have to keep the job until the end of your life. And it could be refreshing for your partnership as well.
As a consultant, I have spent the past three weeks travelling and just spending three days and four nights with family. My advice: Don't do it. I'm starting to feel tired and away already and already longing to my previous not so exciting job. The job is nice, but having to miss the family turned out much more than we originally thought it would be. I can't even start to imagine how I would feel if my wife or one of the kids got sick. Hopefully I would find a job that doesn't require travel before then.
My boss from two jobs ago lived in FL, commuted to VA via plane, and rented a local apartment for what little weekday sleep he could get with his work hours. It worked for a year or so, before he took another job. It was obviously stressful, and I'm not sure that from what I saw that I would recommend that life to anyone. So much time gets absorbed with travel (and that was pre-9/11) that there wasn't time for a quality life wih this family when he was back home. OTOH, he made a large amount of money and was able to use the experience to get an even better subsequent job that didn't require such a hellish commute. As for me, I wouldn't do it. I'm quitting a job with a two hour commute in the DC area to become stay-at-home-dad for a while. We'll have to cut expenses, but I think it'll be worth it. Maybe I'll have a different view in a year, tho.
Dude... I've spent the last year and a half commuting to work via airplane. Flying out early Monday morning and coming home late Thursday night. Wicked opportunity, excellent client, lots of great experience. But it comes at a MASSIVE price. Recently married, trying to start a family - it weighed HEAVY on us. Took its toll and the ride has not been smooth. Looking back at it all now, I would NEVER have taken the chance after all that has happened. It's just not worth it man - family is number one. If you can move 'em with you and setup shop there, then do it. But otherwise, pass and find something local. Trust me. Jobs come and go but the love of your life does NOT and neither does your family.
Cheers.
Mark
I'll probably get modded down like the parent, but the parent has a point. It's absolute madness to consult a bunch of random geeks on the internet about this. Your question doesn't relate to open source software or emerging technology; it's not news for nerds or anything for nerds. And I have a point too: what someone says is far more important than how he says it.
AC has firsthand experience, unlike every other responder to the question. His opinion is the only informed one. The other comments are like Katie Couric talking about linux.
This is one of the funniest posts I've read on Slashdot in a long time, and a nice break from lame "geek humor." Jesus fuck people, lighten up. The mods must be crazy.
I have a 3 hours/day commute (90 mins each way, sometimes it takes 2 hours to get there) and it's really eating into my productivity and my life. My advice: move to someplace closer, even if it's a smaller place, with your family.
Then again, consider that aerospace isn't the most stable kind of carrer today. Right up with microelectronics for cycles. Boeing has a huge bad rap for mistreating its engineers nowadays. Where are you moving to? Chicago?
--
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The problem is, if you don't take this opportunity there is a good chance that you will resent having to turn down an opportunity that you are really excited about. Resentment kills relationships--it has a tendency to fester over the years. If you take the job, your wife (if she is like our wives were) could resent that you are essentially choosing your job over her (no, you can not rationalize this away by saying you are doing it "for the both of you", if she feels this way, she will continue to feel this way despite your best efforts. Feelings are feelings, they don't have to fit themselves to any arguments you come up with). Or, you can move. There are chances for resentment here as well--it really depends on your situation. I would normally say that I would try to see if she offered to move, but this doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be resentment on her part later (remember the rule--feelings are feelings--the fact that she offered of her own free will has no bearing on the feelings she has days/months/years later).
So, frankly, you are in a very difficult situation. What to do greatly depends on the personality traits of both you and your wife. Proceed carefully and discuss things in detail. Try not to make any life-altering decisions until finding out what all of both of your options are. Find out what she would be doing for a living if you both moved to the new town. Are there things that she would like to do there? How does moving there fit in with her personal life goals. Would it be a long-term move? What happens if she gets a great job offer several years later?
Anyway, I would say be very careful about any situation that you will be away on a regular basis. Some people can handle it, but I would definitely say that they are the minority. Good luck, and I hope some of this helps.
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
i am semi retired, but i still enjoy working part time for fun and profit. i work with a friend of mine that does finish/trim carpentry about 80 miles away and i can not affored to drive it everyday, so i boing an army cot & etc. and and camp out in one of the unfinished apartments (with plumbing & electric). drive up on a monday morning and back home thursday evening - four days on three days off.
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As an airline pilot I've been living is one city and commuting to another for many years. In my case, my wife knew when we got married that the job would involve me being away for days at a time and so that was part of the ground rules of the relationship. In your case, though, it's a substantial change.
I can tell you, it's not only the fact that you're away for a days at a time... but the commute itself is just tiring. I've been lucky that my commutes have all been north - south, but my east - west commuter friends tell me that the time zone change makes a bad situation even worse. Also, the fact that after a hard week's work you know you still have an air commute home is something that wears you down. I probably don't have to tell your how aggravating airports are these days... security, weather delays, mechanical delays, etc. etc. You will be spending a lot of time waiting around at the airport, because flights don't just go when you want them to. You'll also spend a lot of time onboard planes even if the commute isn't very far because of various delays. On the plus side, you'll have plenty of time to get Linux running the way you like it on your laptop. On the minus side, you'll wind up leaving home and arriving back home at very early or late hours and there's a good chance you'll miss your kid singing in the school play, your anniversary, and the like.
Having said all that, it's a rare privilege that people can live where they want and work where they want at the same time. There's compromise in every situation, and personally I prefer commuting once a week by air to sitting in car traffic twice a day. Also, depending on the type of relationship you have with your wife, you may find that a little 'breathing room' makes you appreciate each other more when you're together. You have a chance to miss each other a bit. When I get home from my trip each week, I get the celebrity reception from the whole family.
Some wives are more the independent type, and others prefer the subordinate role. If your wife is comfortable making decisions and doesn't require your input for every little thing, then that's in your favor. In the end, though, you'll have to make sure you're both truly comfortable with the decision, because if you do it and she doesn't like it (even if she says it's ok), her resentment will start building up, which will create instability. YMMV. Good luck.
I was on a short term contract with a major oil company. It was work I kinda just fell into. I'd fly out sunday morning, spend two weeks working 12 hour days. On the weekends I didn't go home, I played tourist. I learned a lot, explored a lot and just about ruined a relationship. By the time I got done flying to and from the job site I was spending 36 hours at home every two weeks. After a year the job was moving to off shore platforms, the work was more dangerous, the time away would have been even longer. I called a meeting with my contract manager and said, "This work is going to last at least another year, if you commit to 12 months of employment, I'll move my family, no more expensive plane flights, no more scary cell phone bills." He went to bat for me with his boss, in the end, they couldn't promise the contract length and I went home, got married, and had kids.
I've never looked back and I still keep in touch with my contacts in that company. Moving is a very real option unless you are doing site to site travel.
Consider non traditional work schedules, 3 weeks on, 1 off. Extended time is required to properly bond with your family. Big firms know this. They should also know that a stable family life makes for a more productive workier. At least twice a year, fly the family to you instead of flying home, it's an adventure and an educational tour all at once.
Will you survive? That's another question entirely.
I'm not expecting a response, but is there any reason why you'd have to commute instead of moving? Is moving your family impossible? Did you just forget the obvious answer? :)
To be honest, I can't offer any useful suggestions. Hell, I'm still in college - I haven't had a stable relationship yet, let alone marriage. All I know is that Slashdot isn't the place to turn to for help. You've got to talk to your family, and that's the only option here.
Godspeed, man. Here's hoping that things work out for the best for you, however they do turn out.
Goo goo g'joob.
On the other hand, my dad has worked in the oilfield for most of his life. All through my childhood, he worked different shifts, ranging from 2 weeks on / 1 off, to 5 weeks on / 5 weeks off. I survived. Sure, he missed both my brother's and my high school graduations, and lots of other things, but we would also spend a month each summer on vacation as a family, including an unforgettable 5 weeks in Europe when I turned 16. My parents have been married for over 37 years, and he's still doing that type of work. If anything, his schedule is even worse today.
Of course, 2-3 nights isn't that big of a deal. I do that (and longer) on occasion as a consultant, but not every week, and less frequently now. My wife is a shift worker, and we'll see each other for maybe an hour in some 3 day stretches when she's on nights and I'm working days.
Every person is different. My dad is fine with that type of work schedule, I wasn't. My mom was fine with that type of lifestyle, my wife isn't. My brother and I turned out okay, and while I wish my dad had been around more, I still feel that him spending his entire month home watching sports on TV was more of a problem than his work schedule. You won't know until you try, but just make sure you know what you'll give up if problems arise - preferably the new job. And be willing to compensate for it - focus on your family when you're at home, and save Slashdot for evenings when you're alone at work.
dude, you just got an invite that is an excuse to own your own plane and get to deduct a lot of the expense! What's not to like?? *Plus* you get to get a motorcycle to keep at the airport to get ya to work! I mean, cool beans or what?? Bad weather days I guess you can take the pro version flying and cabs,or stay over, but other days use your own rides!
"commuter death" in google yields aprox 2M results. Don't do it man! long commutes can be DEADLY, no way you'll surive
In the consulting industry (which is where I work), many of us regularly work what we call a 5-4-3 schedule: 5 days of work, 4 days at the client site, 3 nights away from home. We fly out on Monday AM, and return on Thursday PM; working Friday from home.
This is very do-able, and needn't impact your family negatively. The trick is to stay in close touch when you're on the road, and to develop a routine. My family's routines are structured around the regular days I am away. I make sure that when I'm home I am really home; which means I don't get out much with my old friends in the neighbourhood... since I'm out during the week with my project team I'm not anxious to get out when I'm home.
One last point: your spouse has to buy into this 100% before you commit to it.
Anyway, most of the posts have been on-target. Discuss with the family, and see what options you have. If the job is at a fixed location, move closer rather than flying. Moving may not be an option, either because the location is not fixed, or because flying to work is actually a requirement (I know of a research lab somewhere out in the middle of the desert in SW USA, and everyone has to fly in, for security purposes; there are no roads to the facility).
As for pros and cons of taking the job, there isn't much that can be said here that you couldn't have imagined on your own anyway. You need to talk to the people who know most about the situation: your family, your potential employer, and yourself. Since all of them have a big stake in your remaining happy and having a good home life, the advice you will get from those sources is the best you can get. Strangers on the Internet will not have nearly the same insight.
If you have kids, then DON'T do this. Your children need daily support/discipline from you. Additionally your spouse needs your daily assistance with the kids and/or time away from the kids. HOWEVER, if you have no kids, and your spouse has family and/or social friends nearby, then I say take the job. HERE'S WHY: Your spouse needs time away from you, just like you need time away from your spouse. If you trust each other than time away from each other will make the time together much more valuable and endearing. PLUS: Your business travel will undoubtedly earn you frequent flier miles and hotel points, and both of those combine to equal very nice vacations for you and your spouse. Again, if you have no kids, take the job and then make sure that you and your spouse enjoy the perks.
Try joining the military, getting stationed at a remote assignment for a year, with one chance to fly home and spend some time with your family for a month. And then, once you get back to living stateside, you could be called to go to Iraq for 4 months at a time, with no chance of seeing your family at all until you're done there.
I would LOVE to be able to spend 3 nights a week at home.
Count your blessings.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
We have been doing effectively this for a couple of years; I stay in a rented room close to work during the week and we see each other during the weekends (it's changing this month though). However, and that's the big one, we have no children and live in an apartment - running the household by yourself is thus no problem. With children and a house (and, I guess, a daily commute for your spouse as well) things are of course more difficult.
If you can, yes, you probably should move. But beyond the important issues of your spouses career and what moving will do for your total cost of living, you really do need to consider the possible downside: what happens if you lose your nice, high-paying job? If your spouse does not have a job at the new place, what would happen to your economy? If you need to borrow a large sum for a new home, what will happen with those payments? Is the area you move to filled with opportunities in your field so it's easy to find a new job, or do you need to budget for a possible second move if you lose this job?
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Those 100% travel jobs are for single guys. You are not a single guy; this job is not for you. If you can't find a way to not travel then don't take the job.
If you find yourself constrained by your occupation then consider moving to an area where you can get a good job. If you have relatives you would like to stay near then find a niche in that industry that allows you to telecommute. If possible start your own business or switch careers entirely.
I could never understand why anyone would willingly subject themselves to a long term traveling position. I would say short term even for single guys. Long term only if your only other alternative is getting a new job and you are unable to quit.
I guess I could add that you could live "military style" and bring your unemployed wife with you if your company is willing to pay for her tickets on top of yours. I suppose that might work for childless couples whose children are already grown or do not anticipate to have children soon or possibly ever.
How old are you and how old is your marriage? Does your wife work? I assume that you have no kids.
I say go for it if it is one of those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. You may not get another one soon and if your current relationship cannot cope with you being away for a few days per week then there might be a problem there.
If there are little kids involved it's a different story.
However, I wouldn't even consider it now. Here are some factors to consider:
- Children. Do you have children? Do you want to have children? If so, then you need to think very carefully about how that's going to play out. Young children especially will grow very quickly if you don't have daily contact.
- Is this a permanent thing? After about six months of this, both my wife and I were ready for it to be over. I was able to make a telecommuting arrangement, but the nature of the work (computer systems troubleshooting) and the nature of the company (major, national company with 10's of thousands of employees) allowed that. What's your exit strategy?
- How stable is your marriage? While it was okay for us, when I worked (bi-vocationally) as a minister in a military town I saw way too many women who would fall into adultery when their husband was away for months at a time. And we won't even get into what soldiers in remote locations do. (Call me old-fashioned, but I happen to think that adultery is wrong on either side of the equation.)
- Can you handle it? It can get really lonely being away from home like that. You're not in the "remote" location often enough to form roots, and you're away from home often enough that friendships tend to be compromised. It's not just your wife, it's you too.
I could probably list more, but the bottom line is that this is not (necessarily) the end of the world, but you definitely need to think hard about whether it's what you want in life. I would personally not advise it unless your marriage is stable, you trust your wife (i.e. you won't be concerned about her having outside relationships--which can be bad whether she's having them or not) and you have no small children. But it will have to be your call."He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Yes, I found this out the hard way and it cost me thousands.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Sure it's exciting at first, but trust me--regular air travel gets *really* old *really* quickly. I traveled a bit with my consulting firm, and I think the thrill lasted two weeks. Then for another two weeks it was tolerable. And from then on it was just miserable. Virtually all of my colleagues feel the same way. Throw in a wife, a pet, a kid, or a house that you're paying a lot of money for, and you're looking at a recipe for disaster.
We don't have any evidence that the author is male, either.
--MarkusQ
But that is me.. I have heard that there are some people who enjoy that much travel. The last one that I knew was a Republican who was raised by a nanny and had no problems raising his kids by a nanny. Personally, I think that that kind of parenting is more like a sperm doner that pays child support.
Having a family or someone at home and traveling that much, you have to ask yourself, ( IMHO ) do you have to travel to support your family? If the answer is no, then the question is, do you love you job more than your family and which is more important to you?
Something to keep in mind though. If you invest in highspeed internet and some really good quality web cams ( Quickcams now have 1.3 Mpxl versions out ) you can do that much travelling and do video conferencing with your family when you are away.
Just my feeling though
Only 'flamers' flame!
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I started flying for my new consulting gig more than a year ago. One connection, at least 10 hours total travel time one way, or more, 17 once. There on Monday, back on Friday, still making 40 _working_ hours (travel time is not paid). It is very, very hard. Both personally and socially. Personally, vitamins and other supplements is a must. Without multivitamins, lots of C and ginseng, I truly feel I would be completely exausted by now. Socially, I have practically no time for friends, and not much for family. I have a girlfriend (together for close to two years) and two kids (teens), staying with my ex. They miss me a lot, as I do miss them. Call every day. I try to take kids every weekend, and while this helps to maintain relations, it adds another layer of pressure. I used to cook a lot (I like cooking), now have to order in, or go out or buy prepared food as much as possible. If you decide to do this, get as much rest as possible during the week. Forget nightlife, don't burn yourself with coffee. If there is a local office or telecommuting is an viable option, try to get an arrangement, when you spend only two or three days in the field. On the other hand, I see lots of familiar faces on the same flight. Many of the people are in their late forties and fifties, and are flying every week (or every other week) for several years. As far as I understand, most of them have grown up kids, and either no wife/stable girlfriend, or very long relationship, that cannot be hurt by travel. And I'm sure everybody is dreaming to retire ASAP (I know I do, and I'm in early 40s). So, as always, YMMV, ask yourself, ask your SO, and plan accordingly. I personally don't want to return to my previous job, mainly because of money, but I for sure keep thinking about other, less taxing opportunities.
Don't be afraid to turn down a job, especially if it might not be a good fit for your family situation. In the end, your family will be much more important than your yearly salary.
Just recently, I turned down a job because the schedule and commute would play havoc with my personal life. Although I was interested in the position, I wasn't willing to trade away my social freedom during this 1 year commitment. In the end, my gut said no and I moved on.
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1) Parent says that the moderation system is inconsistent and does not neccessarily bring forth good advice, therefore it's not a good way to get advice on such an important issue.
2) Parent gets modded down.
3) Poster agrees with parent post.
4) Poster gets modded up.
Irony?
//no comment
In consulting, it's not unusual to work four days on-site, then fly home on Thursday and work remotely on Friday.
However, during crunch times, it's also not uncommonn to only go home every second weekend.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
I work 3rd shift on a "SSMTW" schedule for a Telecom/ISP Which Shall Remain Nameless. I will call it Tiswsrncom. I live in a fantastic community, a small New England town better known for its culture, comforts and conveniences than its proximity to anywhere you can make money for knowing what "ls -laF" does. So, I commute 45mins each way, 1.5 hours total daily, while speeding, to get to a job that's a long ways away from being close to real money.
My S.O. is so totally not cool with this. For one, she wants me awake during the day on the weekends, especially long weekends. For another, she doesn't want to wake up from a nightmare to be greeted by an empty bed.
But she and I both realize that it's not going to be forever. I'm working where I am to put a roof over our heads in a very nice part of a very nice town, at a rate that would put us in a rat-infested hovel closer to a majot city. She's going to law school (or, in other cases, might be raising a kid or two, a fully acceptable full-time occupation, be you dad or mom), and I'm working for crap money at a crap job I have to drive halfway to Outer Mongolia to be near.
But here's the deal: in three years, I'll have either seniority or a new company paying me what I'm worth. My S.O. will be pulling down fast-track corporation money the closer she gets to her degree. This will mean a larger new house nearer to where she works, or where I work, or an enormous investment property right where we are, only I'll be there the whole weekend and all night as I go to day shift, and we'll enjoy our position.
The key is this: your job is an investment in future happiness. If it will bring you wealth and security for the next 30 years, do it. Your wife will understand... she won't be happy, not at all, but if she understands, deep down, what you're doing is for her and not something you're doing to her, you'll be ok.
If it will bring you strife, unhappiness, anguish and the misery of being alone, forever: go work for 7-11 and screw aerospace. The key is to explain how it will make the both of you deleriously happy for decades if you're unhappy, but mostly content, for a year or three.
Also, more practically, I sold my '69 Cadillac convertible, and bought something Asian with a 100k mile warranty and 35mpg. Sacrifices must be made, and I couldn't make it with a gas-guzzling, unreliable V8 pickup or luxo-barge.
SoupIsGood Food
I've actually had a completely wacked out schedule, sometimes working at home 5 days a week for a year straight, other times doing the ole' 5-4-3 for half a year or more. Its rare that I actually have a commutable assignment. Luckily I haven't had to fly for the 5-4-3 jobs (yet), but I was still away from home nonetheless. Those who pointed out the importance of your wife's situation speak from experience. My wife grew up as an "IBM daughter" and therefore knew her Mom as an "IBM wife". Now she's an IBM wife and has absolutely no trouble adjusting to dramatic schedule changes.
If you haven't done something like this before, get ready for a big change. If you have kids, get ready to pull your hair out and cry into some scotch at the hotel bar. We don't have kids yet, so we only had to adjust to the changes (and having 48 hours notice to pack for a trip to Europe -- commonly referred to as, "The Upside").
Intelligent Life on Earth
Quick brown fox
I've been pursuing my PhD in Psychology for many years now, and the final piece for me was to take an internship for a year. Unfortunately, my plans fell through, and I ended up staying in California, where I ended up living with my significant other. Instead of me heading off on internship, she got accepted into graduate school, and I planned to move across the country to be with her. (I even turned down a 3-year contract job as a researcher, to follow her). Within a week of getting out there, however, an internship position opened up at a place I wanted to work. Unfortunately, it was a 5-hour drive away. Which isn't horrific, it just means we end up doing what you're worried about doing - just seeing each other on the weekends. Although we were disappointed that it ended up that way, we both knew the sooner that I got that done, the better. So I'm off on internship now. Of course, now that my internship is almost done, I'm looking to move back to find a job in her state.
I suppose the lesson here is that although you might move the family together, you never know what will happen. All things to those who wait, yadda yadda.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
"It's absolute madness to consult a bunch of random geeks on the internet about this. Your question doesn't relate to open source software or emerging technology; it's not news for nerds or anything for nerds."
OSS and emerging technology? The guy was probably looking for the words of wisdom from somebody who's gone and done something like this. Considering how big Slashdot is and considering the field he's in, the odds are pretty darned good that somebody who has actually done this would be able to respond. Slashdot's the perfect place for him to ask this question despite how 'obvious' it is to everybody else. I've worked with two or three people that have done exactly what this guy is describing. It's a pity I'm no longer in touch with them because I'm sure they'd have something more useful to say than "Derr der err fuh fuh fuh."
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Traveling can be really hard on the marriage. Don't underestimate this. Be sure that is in solid ground first and foremost... We were married for about seven years before I became a road warrior, which helped some. It still was not easy. Due to my heavy travel, she ended up switching to a stay home Mom. (So much for having our cake and eating it too on the financial side. A few things help.)
Being willing to be a road warrior was a fast track in on the corporate side. It was fun to 'travel the world' the first six months, but the thrill wears off quickly. One hotel/restaurant/card table at a customer is the same as another. I kept my job, while others did not, so that is worth a fair bit of stability on the home front. Risk vs. rewards, I also made more than those who followed a track that got them home each night.
Another thing to think about is staying in shape. Very easy to move into the plus sizes when you dine in a restaurant every night. The clean plate club is not a good idea. Much more work than I ever thought it would be.
I try to strike a balance these days. A few weeks of heavy travel, followed by a couple of weeks close to home.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Furthermore, we are assuming that their family has two breadwinners and not just one.
This assumption is warranted, as while hoping for the best we still have to plan for the worst for the sake of discussion.
Then 20 different threads are started exploring the possible reasons why this might not be possible.
Which is the entire point of Ask Slashdot: to exhaust the special cases so that each of us may learn about our own special case.
Bitter much?
My dad was a commercial airline pilot. This meant that he was home for a few days a week and then would be gone for a few days at a time. Provided that it's a fairly predictable few days a week rather than a situation where you end up spending weeks away, it's not too bad. Besides, you'll have airline miles out the wazoo when you want to take the kids to Disney :)
Where you get into trouble is when you become a road warrior where you fly home on saturday and then fly out on sunday night or monday morning. If you live that kind of life, you're probably better off just filing for divorce in advance. I've known people who have tried to live that life where their home is an airline gate. It rarely works out.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I work in an oil field in a cold state (not hard to figure out) and I live outside of Philadelphia.
There's no place to live, outside of the camp here... and it's more of a dorm than a home.
I'm away for two weeks at time. However, when I'm home, it's 100% home time. No office to go to, no work to think about. Working 12 to 16 hour days for fourteen straight days was hard to adapt, but I can't imagine going back to a regular job now. It's too good. Especially the offtime. I literally have six months a year off. If you can get that kind of deal, definately go for it.
If you're working a 9 to 5'er, no way. That's crazy. But if your job is a 12 hour job or 7 days a week, etc. It's not that bad. I've been doing this for 7. Been married for the last four of them, and have a three year old daughter. It's not easy, but as far as my wife and daughter know, I've always been like this.
The number one tip would obviously be make sure your home time is your home time, and it should reflect on your commute & work hours.
I didn't.
The ______ Agenda
I did the long-commute thing for a couple of years, with two nights a week away from my wife (two careers, different cities). Once our first son was born, we decided to consolidate. After talking it over, we decided that I would leave my job for a new opportunity. Whether this was a good long-term career move for me is debatable (my wife is still with the same employer, I've changed again), but I sure don't regret it.
J
J
Several years ago, I lived in Burbank CA and worked in Phoenix, AZ. I flew from the Burbank airport (10 minute taxi from home) to the Phoneix airport (57 minute flight) then went to the office (10 minute taxi ride). About a 90 minute trip each way with lines (pre-911 security). I took this trip several times a week, only staying overnight 1 or 2 nights for work. I worked 7 days a week.
It's fun, and if your spouse wants to travel (and your family situation allows it), you get many miles. In my case, I received a "companion pass" that allowed my spouse to fly with me free for 1 year. We took Southwest (the "magic bus" of US airlines) to many places - over a dozen.
However, after 18 months of this type of work, I began to fight to work at home. The job didn't provide anything more than I could get through phone calls (the business relationships were built, and my code delivery could be given to the appropriate teams remotely). My home office didn't know who I was, and the remote office saw me as just another crazy consultant.
Also, I missed not really discovering much of either Burbank or Phoenix. Like so many of the side trips on longer weekends, everywhere felt like a temporary home. My wife built a home life, including neighbors, parties, etc - without me.
I must advise against such a move. But knowing how I felt in the beginning long ago, I know you will not see the drawbacks as universal, and my description of them here is inadequate. Good luck.
2-3 days a week away from your family isn't too rough, provided that you can be there when they, too, aren't busy. If you're home plenty of weekends and as many weeknights as possible, I don't think you'd get too much of a rift opening up between you, your wife and your kids.
Whether or not it works is up to you. It's really hard work for both of you, and needs excellent communication. And it's not your decision. It has to be a joint decision. If you somehow think that this is up to you, then your marriage is already broken. So stop asking slashdot and talk to your husband.
I'm 34 and self-employed, actually quite happy and - single. I would take the woman and the family and ignore the stupid job. But then, I gave up my job even without the reason of a woman (and never regretted it, although I was very well-paid) so maybe I'm not quite average :-)
You're actually reading the content. Moderation is usually decided by the first sentence.
"What are you, a fucking idiot?" will get modded flamebait, even if (as is not the cse here) it were followed by the single most relevant post ever.
"I'll probably get modded down for this." is the slashdot karma whore's secret weapon.
"Why yes, I'm an aerospace commuter" (or whatever) = +5 informative, every time.
In summary:
"What are you, a fucking idiot? I'll probably get modded down for this, but I am an aerospace commuter, and I'll tell you..." = -1 Flamebait
"I'll probably get modded down for this, but you are a fucking idiot and I am an aerospace commuter, and I'll tell you..." = +5 insightful
"I'm an aerospace commuter, and I'll tell you that you are a fucking idiot?" = +5 informative
"You are actually reading the content" = +5 Funny.
Any questions?
An oil rig is another.
You could actually move to Kodiak Island, but the kids would get eaten.
Offcourse it all depends on your relationship and both your personality. Can you deal with being alone. Some people actually prefer this lifestyle.
Basically is she willing/can she run the house on her own. Are you willing to let her do that. You will become far more of a guest in your own house if you are away half the time.
What can really bum people out is maintenance of all kinds. You will only be home on your days off and you are going to get pretty fed up if you would then have to do all the little chores you would normally do during an entire week.
On the other hand if she is doing all the chores in maintaining the house and then you come home with a bag of dirty laundry you will find that your wife is not your mother.
But hey, she might just love it. Allows her to have her session with the grocerie boy in peace, maybe invite the poolboy without having to rush because you will be home from the office.
Get the job, allow her her freedom to get some good sex while you are away earning the big bucks. And don't worry, it is perfectly normal for the baby to look nothing like the father. Happens all the time.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
...this story has impeccable timing for me. Last week I was contacted by a recruiter from a big-name company that I would *really* like to work for, but working for them would require relocating, which is not an option at the moment -- my wife can't leave this place because she's working on a PhD at the local university. The other option would be to go there by air every week (it's a 1.5 hour flight, plus another 1.5 hours of travel), which is doable but which would mean I'd be away from home for most of the week. I probably wouldn't mind doing that if I could eventually telecommute for one or two days a week, but still, the idea is terribly frightening!
:-)
Fortunately I've talked about it with the wife, and she doesn't really mind me being away for 3 or 4 nights a week. There are no kids (at the moment) so that makes it easier. And I could set up a webcam on the other side so that we can chat, and we can spend some of the evenings that I'm away play games together online. That counts as spending time together, right? And if you have broadband on both sides, you can probably even watch online TV together. You could keep a voice channel open at the same time and talk about the stuff that's on TV.
Yes, we human beings are very adaptable and tough, I have survived long commutes.
p ital
My dad is adoctor and works at a hospital which is 40 km from where we live and its in the opposite direction of the main city which is 100 km away. So here is the basic layout
City---------100km--------Home------40km------Hos
Since I was four years old and now I am twenty, I have been going everyday to school and now university. I have survived, my dad has survived. You can too. We all can.
My last sig was ridiculed
... My Brother-in-law is in a similar situation, but given the crazy hours he's had to work even when he was working in his area, it's not that much different for them except that my sister doesn't get kept awake by snoring.
Phones and email do a pretty good job of communication during the week, and he's always back for weekends. It's also a temporary situation, I can't imagine anyone putting up with this kind of wear and tear for more than, say, a year.
In September 2004 my dad got a job working on-site at various national building jobs. It meant he'd be travelling around the country a lot and often had to stay away monday-friday since driving the 4+ hours back wasn't an option each day. He got promoted in around May but by that time it was becoming clear to my parents that their relationship had changed and they split in September. While there were obviously other factors that determined the split which I won't go into on /., the fact that my dad was out of the house most weekdays meant it already felt like he'd left and made it easier for my mum to decide she could make it alone (or at least, without my dad). If you do take this role, think hard about how it's gonna effect your family, because from my teenage point of view, it totally sucked.
Never mind your family: every time you travel out and back on a short haul flight, you're dumping maybe a tonne of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. That's equivalent of driving about 4000 miles (for typical CO_2 emissions of 150g/km). Each time you board, you're actively ruining the environment for everyone else.
What's more, you're wasting oil at a rate that will make more US Military action in the Middle East necesssary to secure future oil supplies for an economy that is unhealthily obsessed with oil.
If you must commute long distance, move to Europe where such commutes can be done with high-speed railway lines getting their electricity from nuclear power stations.
I was at a startup with half of my group flew (or drove in) from south calif. to north each week. usually they'd stay in temp housing or apartments that were setup for 'commuters' like that. this was back just before the fall of the dot comms and we were a telecom company with 'big plans'. the stock was held in front of us and dangled there as a motivation. that was the sole reason why these guys left their families and stayed away from home for a week at a time, going home only for weekends. I think they did this for about 2 yrs.
what happened?
the company folded. doors closed. we lost our market. no one 'won' anything from our stock. in the end, we all got a basic salary and these guys lost 2 yrs of their family lives.
I would not recommend this. your life is YOUR life. life isn't all about work.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Common /.! Why was I the only one to think of this!! Alright, everyone hand over their nerd cards... NOW (and just to avoid any questions - no, handing over your nerd cards DOES NOT entitle to you re-aquire your man cards).
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
You've got to weigh your options... A lot of people have made excellent points, but I wanted to mention a few other things.
* Do you have family or close friends in the area? If something happens, is your wife going to be on her own, or will she have support?
* Who's paying for the commute? Are you paying out-of-pocket and getting reimbursed, or do you just show up and get flown off? If you're getting reimbursed... well, everyone's heard the horror stories.
* Will you be getting a security clearance out of the deal? In the Northeast US, that gives you the ability to name your own salary. Or so I hear...
* What is the likelihood of unusually extended stays or being "on call"? If you can guarantee that your weekends won't be interrupted, you'll be one step ahead of a lot of IT folks.
Since this is slashdot, your job is probably alot more exciting than the commute. Therefore you must add hours away from friends,family and hobbies to the working hours in the equations. An evening in a hotel is not the way I want to spend my unpayed time, neither is an hour commute. I currently live 3.3km from where I work.
Seriously, these types of jobs are for single people not people with families. Don't do it.
If you have a family that should come first. No job is worth destroying that.
The ratio of people to cake is too big
We all have different tolerance levels for this sort of thing. I probably wouldn't have done it six months ago, and right now I *know* I wouldn't do what you're describing. Not quite six months ago I took a job that required about a two hour commute each way (by road...I never would have dreamed to do such a thing by air!). I figured I could handle it every day, and be home to see the wife every night. She agreed, and was behind me 100%. Within a week, I was looking for a place to stay in the town where the job is. It's a seven day a week job (doing IT work to support natural gas exploration) and it had become very evident that the commute was going to wear me down. My wife even drove out to help me find a "crash pad." (And this was before the recent spike in gas prices too!) Now, I maybe make it home about every other weekend, if that. I'm in the process of going a whole month without going home (or, at least, not taking any days off) simply to save up time for a bigger vacation at the end of June. I still get to see the wife on the weekends (she drives out here), but believe it or not I still feel bad for going that long without seeing our damn cat! Bottom line, you must talk with your spouse for sure, and make sure he/she is OK with it. And even if they are, know that over time that dynamic can change (my wife now tends to get a little upset the night before I have to drive back out here sometimes). But at the same time, you can always look for something else. As for me, the resume is polished and I've been sniffing around for opportunities much closer to home. I can't imagine what this would have been like with a longer commute and/or an air commute -- I probably wouldn't have lasted even this long, even with the significant sums of money they're paying me. But, that said, I've still got the experience to show for it on the ol' resume.
I was there 1.5 years. 5 of us got divorced. In a 1.5 year time period. 5 of us (yes, me included).
Of course, you have to consider that more than half of all marriages end in divorce, so it's hard to say if this is atypical or not.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Parent is absolutely right. A friend of mine moved for a job opportunity a little over a year ago. The move put a lot of stress on his relationship with his wife, as she was feeling resentment and loneliness in the new town. It eventually caused their divorce. I could also say the same about a different friend at another job, who moved with his wife and child down for the job. Again, the move and new town caused stress in their relationship. They moved again a little while later, and they're still together, but if you take the job, you're probably going to be in for some stressful times. And as the parent said, even if you don't take the job you might feel resentment that you didn't take it.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
The chance that any given marriage will fail over the entire course of that marriage is somewhere around 40%. But, that is much different than half the marriages in a department failing in such a short time.
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
Right now, I'm on an out-of-state contract. Money was tight, or I'd never have taken it. It ain't no fun to live in a bloody motel room except for a three-day weekend ever other week.
If you might wind up moving, or the opportunity is so good, because it will lead to something in the near term (within a year or so). Otherwise, pass.
mark
Now, 16 years into it, I travel even more than that long-ago job required and, although we don't love it, we're at peace with it because we've got more shared history and shared stability together. So I guess I'd give you a classic consultant answer and say "it depends."
My disclaimer: We didn't have kids. There's no real way to make that much travel work with kids unless you make your peace with being the de facto equivalent of a divorced couple with visitation rights.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
...and while the money was good, I deeply regret the year I spent so far away from my wife and newbord first child. I was home, but three nights a week I was on the other side of the state on a lucrative consulting gig.
So while I only worked a few days a week, making more money than I would at a full time job close to home, I missed that precious time full of firsts with my daughter. I will never get that time back again. It was an even bigger waste than going to see Star Wars Episode I in the theater, only stretched out over a year instead of just a couple of hours.
And no, moving wasn't a viable option. This was just a consulting gig and could have ended after two weeks or two months. And there was no other work to be had in that part of the state.
So now I've learned to do more with less, pass up jobs that sound good financially if I feel they will put an undue burden on my primary responsibilities (i.e. to my growing family), and I'm now happily working at a job that pays poorly only 7 miles from my home (but has other less tangible rewards).
I'm not a treehugger, but I would definitely not take a job that requires me to drive 70+ miles a day. 45 minutes flying... well, you get the picture. I would certainly consider family time, but the large environmental impact of commuting by plane should not be ignored.
"it's not about aptitude, it's the way you're viewed" - Galinda
So I don't exactly commute long times but I do travel with a theatre show which involves a lot of touring. I am currently away from home for 14 weeks but then I do get home and have 2 months of work at home. Then I leave for another 6 weeks, home for a month, gone for a month. Manage to get Christmas at home and then away for 2 months home for a week then away for 2 more months.
My GF isn't pleased with the travel but does understand it. We both know it will have to stop when the time comes that we are ready to have kids. She is able to come and visit for a weekend here and there when I am travelling within country. But when I go to Europe for 8 weeks this just isn't feasable.
It works for us for now but it is hard. Make sure you get a good long distance phone card.
Kevin
When I got out of uni, I was having a tough time looking for a job (the graduate IT market was down). I lived in Melbourne at the time, and an opportunity came up to work in a Government department, but it meant I had to relocate to Canberra (travel time: around 3 hours by plane including travelling to and from the airports, or about 7-8 hours driving). Unfortunately my g/f couldn't come. It put a real strain on our relationship - we spoke on the phone every day and emailed constantly, but it wasn't the same. We managed to put up with it for a bit over year but eventually it got too much, so I packed all my stuff onto the roof rack and drove back on Christmas eve. Looking back on it, we both think it was a mistake - for one thing I had to pay the costs of travel so spent any savings we might've had on my flying/driving back and forth. For another thing I wrote off my first car in the middle of the night on a deserted dirt road in the middle of nowhere (I was taking a short cut :-P). We were both miserable for the whole time, but now that we are back together we are closer than ever before. However, I don't know if we would've got this close anyway. I'd advise against it - there will be other jobs but you don't want to waste a year of your life being miserable!
we would also spend a month each summer on vacation as a family
As a piece of embroidery on the wall of a teacher's home said:
There are three reasons for being a teacher
June
July
August
"it's not about aptitude, it's the way you're viewed" - Galinda
Just because you made the decision to join the military, doesn't mean you get to shit on everyone else. You made your choice, and for your sake I hope your family is behind it 100%, or you aren't going to have them forever.
The original poster came asking for advice on an important issue. You can contribute, or you can run your useless mouth. If you choose to run your useless mouth, then you should be marked as troll.
Best of luck to you, I hope we pull out of that useless country, the Bush gang go on trial for war crimes or whatever, and our soldiers in the mideast can come home until some other warmongering village idiot neo conservative picks a new target.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
I used to travel about 25% of the time, usually for the entire week. It was one of the things that almost destroyed my marriage. That much separation just doesn't work out well. Now that I have young kids, I've threatened to quit when they've tried to force me on the road for multiple weeks at a time. I'll still take the occasional trip, but that's it.
I work with a number of consultants that travel 90% of the time and almost all of them want to get off the road. The only ones that don't are older and their kids are out of the house. They all expect plenty of extra money to make up for travelling, and those of us that don't travel don't blame or envy them.
At the end of your life, as you look back to this point in your life, which choice will you wish you would have made?
What REALLY matters to you? How do you define success as a man?
For me, the amount of closeness in my relationship with my wife and my kids is fundamentally important. I refuse to consider any opportunities which will require me to be away from home on a regular basis. Does this limit me? In some ways, yes. I know for sure that I could make more money - perhaps double or triple what I'm making now. The fact is, I would not trade any amount of money for the relationships I have.
On their deathbed, I know of few people who long to have made more upwardly mobile career choices, or who desire having spent more time working. At the end of life, people usually think about legacy.
What legacy would you leave if today you breathed your last? Are you happy with that? If not, make different choices tonight, tomorrow and each day for the days you have left.
This is *your* life. Are you who you want to be?
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
My boss would NOT spring for a company car.
Consider your idea nixed in the bud. If you work... you need a car.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Or your toolbox, groceries, etc?
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Before you decide, be sure to read Steve McConnell's insightful writing from a few years back at Orphans Preferred.
I commute 1.5 to 2 hours each way, depending on traffic. One way to beat the commuting blues is to stock up on good reading material. Read! A novel, the week's Economist, etc. (This works only if you are not in the driver's seat.)
If you are in the driver's seat, a good sound system and a useful selection of podcasts will make the time pass more easily.
However, nothing beats good company on the commute. I've been car pooling for about five years now can can't recommend it enough. Travel with friends. Even if you are too tired to chat animately, a "work was bad today", "yeah, I know what you mean" type of conversation can help lift the work-weary spirits. Also, your friend can probably keep you (if you're driving) from falling asleep at the wheel.
Key points to making this work:
- Your employer has to be flexible and recognise that if you are already bending over to make it work for them, they need to do the same to make it work for you. If your kid has a school event, your employer should do everything they can to let you go to it.
- Maintain a regular schedule. There is nothing I find more stressful than waiting, whether it's sitting in traffic, waiting for a connecting bus or train, waiting to get into a 3G cell so I don't have to put up with 4kB/s GPRS or even just being out of schedule. If possible, organise yourself to minimise waiting time.
- Plan your exit strategy. You can't do this forever or you will burn out. Tell your boss what your plans are so you can work together to come to some arrangement. Maybe once you understand your role and have all the necessary contacts you can do a block of work from home or a local office.
- Both you and your spouse need to be 100% committed not only to each other but also to the idea of a lifetime relationship. If you have even a hint of entertaining the idea that your wife could survive if your marriage failed or that your kids would be okay when you have custody visits on weekends then don't do it. Kids are far more stable knowing that their parents are still committed even if they're not physically together. I can't tell you how many times in the first year my wife told me to just leave and go and live the life I wanted with a new trade-in young bride (that was when I was staying away through the week). Breaking up is easy to do but don't be selfish.
- Stay focussed. When you're at work, do work. When you're at home, do your home duties as a parent and spouse. Don't think that you can stay up late while you're away just because your partner is not there nagging you to go to bed - your work will suffer and you'll want to sleep in when you get home.
- Get a laptop with a net connection. You can use it for work if you need to, but more importantly you can do your own projects and watch movies when you get sick of doing that. Get some comfortable headphones but don't turn the volume up louder than the annoying kids talking in the seat behind you or you'll be deaf in 5 years.
- Listen to your wife and make sure you spend time expressing yourself. If you flick on the idiot box or spend all your spare time surfing, she will still be lonely even if you're physically there.
- Learn to compromise. If your wife works a job she's also going to need time out occasionally, leaving you at home with the kids. Don't argue. Negotiate.
- If you get the opportunity to be at home nightly, take it, even if you will only have an hour a day with your wife and see your kids for a few minutes in the morning.
- Exercise your body. Eat regular healthy meals. Take vitamin B supplements even if you don't think you need them yet. You do.
- Use VoIP. You'll save thousands and have less money problems to argue about.
Good luck. You'll need it.on bicycle from my driveway to the door outside my office. I just moved because I got fed-up with the commute. Originally it was just 25 minutes but then sprawl happened in a big way where I used to live and the commute became 40 minutes. I am very fortunate how this worked-out.
I turned down a great job once, solely because it would have required me to be away from home multiple nights per week. Aside from just being away, our chief reasoning was that I would not be able to get home quickly enough in an emergency.
Basically, the commute and stress on his family ended up with him quitting the Google job, and using it for leverage to increase his position in the previous job that he held.
Renting a car adds about $20/$30 a DAY (for a crappy car) rental fee in addition to whatever you pay for fuel fees to gas it up.
Also, in America, we hate being forced to be around each other when we commute. Traveling together communally puts us even closer to the riff raff we're trying so hard to avoid (not that the roads are perfectly safe, what with road rage and all).
Also, if people take bikes to work then they are going to be biking 50 miles. Try that some time. Especially if you have to do a grocery run. They don't deliver groceries in many places in the US. Have fun! The more likely scenario is people will move closer to work, and guess what? Rents in apartments near workplaces will skyrocket in price. Then you'll get laid off, your job outsourced to India, and you'll have to pack up and move. Oh wait, you can't - you don't have a car! Oops!
Oh and as for the crime rate on trains... women get groped a lot in public transportation... especially in Japan. ANOTHER reason to drive to work; at least then the groper has to pry his way into your car to get under your panties (if you're a woman).
Also, in America, women don't date men who don't have cars. I can't possibly exaggerate that. If we switched to buses, bikes and trains, women would hate us even more than they already do.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
You don't happen to fly out of McCarran, on a plane with call sign "JANET", do ya?
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
55 miles each way, through the worst NYC has to offer. Anyone familiar with Long Island, NYC, and Jersey will appreciate this...
Northern State Parkway -> LIE -> Cross Island Parkway -> Whitestone Expressway -> Grand Central Parkway -> Triboro Bridge -> Harlem River Drive -> GWB -> Route 4 -> local roads -> office.
On the way home, pretty much the same depending on whether or not there was a Yankee game. 110 miles a day, about 1.5 hours (as little as 45 minutes if it was a holiday week or weekend, and as much as 4 hours when there was nasty rains). I left that job and just started a new one in NYC. Now my daily commute by car is 3.5 miles to the trainstation, 3.5 miles home. The rest is by LIRR or on foot from the subway to the office.
I did that long commute for 11 months and around month 8 it finally got to me. I pretty much buckled under the pressure. 3 weeks before I left (I hadn't gotten the offer for this job yet), I was stuck in such unexplainable traffic and the road rage set in that I got physically ill and ended up throwing up all day saturday and having a fever, etc. I was on the brink of an ulcer and if I wasn't in good health, I probably would've given myself a stroke or heart attack.
Thankfully that is all over and done with and now I can sleep on the train or read a book or listen to the radio on my headphones. Nothing beats it. Not to mention the savings on gas and tolls I won't have to spend anymore.
I've rarely seen a real server under 20lbs.
And good luck carting that thing around for, say, 50 miles. BTW do you tell your boss/customers that you're carrying their servers around on your bike?
Carry a client's server on a bike? Or a frag box? It only takes one near-miss incident or a nasty spill to unlearn him of that fantasy.
:)
Oh yeah, these dudes never encounter that.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!