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What Do Geek Squad Technicians Actually Do?
Zenitram asks: "I am a lead technician at a company that repairs computers for various vendors. Many of our systems are from Best Buy's Geek Squad. Based on the systems Geek Squad sends us, it makes me wonder what, if anything, do they actually do? We get systems that have issues that we simply shouldn't have to work on, like: installing device drivers, OS reloads, and reseting CRUs (Customer Removable Units). Additionally, we get systems that are misdiagnosed such as: bad hard drive when a system has faulty RAM; no POST when it simply won't boot into Windows; or no boot when it won't power on at all. So, what is the scope of technical repair that Geek Squad techs do?"
They are paying you, right? Who gives a leap about what they do and don't do.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
people more clueless than themselves. Maybe they should go to Apple's Genius Bar to get actual help with their PC:)
Actually, I suspect, based on your summary, that they find it cheaper to contract out to you guys than having knowleable people on their staff. Best Buy just charges the customer anyway (a premium) so it's not like it's coming out of their pocket. If they knew what was wrong with it in the first place, like a faulty harddrive, wouldn't they just replace it themselves? It's not like they don't have the parts.
You know somebody isn't a repair tech if they're wearing a tie.
When I worked professionally as a repair tech, I wore a tie for exactly one day. They dangle, and get stuck to the pins on the back of a PCB like velcro. Work on one machine without being careful about your tie, and it's ruined with dozens of pulls. If you're lucky, you didn't ruin whatever it is you were working on.
i used to work for nerds on site, the original tech group in beatles, anyways one of our guys decided to call the geek squad one day to see what they were like. he showed up and had to reformat a drive and install windows. seemed simple enough, however they never installed any drivers or updates for windows, that was extra per driver/update, and so was resetting up the basic networking features of the computer, not share drives just the basics, yup it cost extra, any extra software, yup more money.
now comes the time for the bill, now being a "geek" you figure they would do it via the internet with auto-adjusting price based on the services ordered, something nerds on site has had for a while, no they did not have this. since our man was paying by credit card, the geek squad guy had to pull out one of those old credit card slider things. now in order to calculate price he had to use a calculator.
now i don't know if they've improved recently but you would think a large tech based company would use some basic stuff that a geek friendly company should already be using, personally why go with an imitation, go with the original nerd in a bug, http://www.nerdsonsite.com/ and yes they are world wide and constantly growing
my question is what the 'repair' centers do. i had to send a laptop out to have the power jack replaced. laptop came back with scratches and superglue and a 'new DVD drive that didnt work and was covered in glue (my previous drive worked). i then sent it out to have a fan replaced. i used geek squad again because they said thye would replace the DVD with one that works and wasnt covered in glue. computer came back with new drive, scratches and note that says 'unit overheats and shuts down after two minutes. needs fan.' (that took 2 weeks) i sent it back out to have the fan replaced (again). laptop came back after another two weeks with more scratches and missing rubber feet. fan works.
during this time i wrote a few letters. it only took 2.5 months to get back my working, yet cosmetically damaged, laptop back. the only good thing is that all 'repairs' were free, a stack of DVD-R's and a 200$ refund on my only big purchase at best buy.
apparantly geek squad is building their own repair center.
lastly the guy there stated that when it comes to notebooks, geek squad is a glorified shipping center. they also just write down the symptoms that the customer tells them. so the customer could be wrong
always mosh clockwise
I really depends on the store and it's staff. There are some that are filled with very bright and knowledgable people. Then there are some filled with idiots. I think it depends a lot on the IT industry in your area. If your area has a booming IT trade there are less of the smart, just out of college, but smart people to work a low rung job like Geek Squad. However, if you work in an IT deadzone, what you will find a lot of times in those Geek Squads is very talented *geeks* who are working there as their first IT job because there aren't that many opportunites for IT in their area. Just my 2 cents --Former GeekSquad'er
Skilled computer techs who will do residential site visits are hard to find, so instead people default to a choice that they believe will insulate them from the worst-case scenarios. Most non-geek users have trouble assessing whether or not a computer consultant is capable or will muck up their machine even worse. Rather than taking the risk that they'll hire some dimwit or crook, they go to Best Buy (or CompUSA) and pay extra for their service in the belief that this gives them options if the repair goes badly. The crooked consultant can disappear with their money before the "fixed" computer blows up. It's not that easy to move the Best Buy store, so the guy is likely to return and demand satisfaction.
RichM
Data Center Knowledge
I do wear a tie at work, although we are mostly in the business of taking care of software we do replace hardware pretty frequently. Fortunately I am also enlightened enough to put on a tieclip as well towards the bottom of the tie. It is quite effective at keeping the tie out of the case that I'm working on.
You know a few of them well enough to judge their intelligence? What does that say about you?
Smart people can't associate with people who aren't smart? What the fuck are you trying to say?
What it comes down to is the meager compensation and bullshit hoops that Best Buy and related companies force their employees to endure means that any employee who is worth their salt will soon be an employee of a much better organization. Ergo, Geek Squad employees are going to pretty much be idiots, or at least extremely inexperienced.
I took this awful management class and they talked about Geek Squad like its some sort of Business miracle. We even had to watch a video where they talk about the company and its structure. Aside from their marketing they are really nothing special and time will tell on that as well. Geek Squad is just one of many essentially empty shell IT service organizations that charge a high rate to the end users who go to them because they have established a recognizable brand and then contract most if not all of the actual work out to others.
Sounds like a good business case to me. The company does nothing, contracts out the real work, and focuses on building the brand among the clueless masses.
What is value of Coca-cola? What does Coca-cola do? They sell sugar & water, and license others to sell sugar & water. Is there any real difference between coke, pepsi, and all the others? Not really.
The real value in Coca-Cola is that red & white logo. The brand. It's recogizable around the world and it's worth billions.
- geek told customer he needed a new computer when he needed a new power supply (this happens somewhat frequently)
- geek told customer he needed a new computer because this one is slow, was actually rampant with spyware and viruses (happens all the time)
- geek sold customer another copy of XP because this one was showing it was no longer registerd
And there you have Geek Squad's true purpose, to sell customers extra products and services.
While it is true that any technician who doesn't know what the A+ cert is should probabally be laughed at, that does not mean that it is worth anything. Sure, it's all nice that I know that the little black thing in a floppy disk is called a mylar, but that has nothing to do with actually making a computer work.
The only way to really know what you're getting in a tech is to talk to his (or occastionally her) previous customers and find out:
1. Is he willing to be patient with explaining what he is doing before, during, and after the job?
2. Does he charge a fair price for his skill level?
3. Is he a nice person in general?
4. Does he actually know what he is doing?
Which gets me on another topic entirely. Even the most basic of newbies can do well in the support world if they are willing to treat their customers right. Back when I was a 7th grade hot shot who knew how to replace a stick of RAM in under 2 hours, people would still hire me, and even pay me more than my asking price because I fit categories 1,2, and 3, even if I still had to grown in number 4.
There is nothing with Geek Squad, in the same way there is nothing wrong with Taco Bell. Both provide a low quality product for a low cost. If you want excellent service, you have to pay a premium... just like if you want excellent food, you have to pay a premium (or learn how to cook). For many cheap computer systems, paying a premium for a highly skilled technician just doesn't make a lot of sense... especially when, in many cases, the problem can be solved by any marginally computer literate person.
Now, there are some people who might say that Geek Squad is overpriced. I don't know what the going rate for tech support is, but it seems to me that Geek Squad is far from a monopoly on tech support, and that people are either happy with the service, or prefer the one-stop Best Buy concept than to open a phone book and look for a place themselves.
I work for a colelge Help Desk. One of the collges on my campus requires laptops. A friend of mine and a few people that have come to help desk come up there after bringing their laptop to geek squad for hardware work since they didn't buy the machine from my school For my friend some reason they replaced the hard drive even though that wasn't the problem. The problem was there logic board for a power issue. They damage it even more when they returned it to her by some how frying the battery and breaking the keyboard and touchpad. Luckly she had a 3 year warrenty that covered that When they reutned it to her finally fixed it only had SP1 installed on the machine and half the drivers weren't even installed on the machine. This was one of many machines that have come from geek squad that was partially fixed or not even fixed yet.
I have a buddy that use to work with me, but ended up getting a higher paying job with geek squad. He likes the job becuase it pays better and gets the big best buy discount. But some of the policies that I heard from him make no senese, they charge extra for anything you want fixed correctly.
I work on the Geek Squad, and I'm gonna tell you like it is. 1. You don't need any certs to work on the Geek Squad (except for the higher positions such as supervisor or in-home tech) 2. Most "agents" are more than capable of doing (and do) all the things mentioned in the original post. We do OS Restores/Installs, We diagnose CORRECTLY, etc. Any thing that is misdagnosed, speak to the coders of GS's software. 3. We deal with REALLY, REALLY, REALLY stupid people all day long. Many of them barely know how to turn a computer on. So if we mess up, we're sorry. 4. Many "agents" are actually quite bright, contrary to opinions mentioned earlier. You can't base you're opinion of a group of people on your opinions about a few. Besides, opinions are just that: opinions. 5. Most Geek Squad employees are college students, trying to make a buck (close to what they pay us) and learn more about computers at the same time. 6. We are so bogged down by corporate BS that half of the time were not allowed to fix certain problems, even if we know how. 7. And finally, the software that we are allowed to use is CRAP. No, we don't use winternals anymore, we're not allowed to. But the GS "branded" software, is just terrible. I am speaking of the diagnostic software in particular. And as for the software we use to catalouge customer incidences, well, lets just say that I've seen better software written. In HTML. It might be more efficient to use a chisel and stone slab. But most of all...before you get insulted that we're giving "geeks" a bad name, remember that we work in retail, and we provide services geared to those with IQs of 90 and under. So anyone who associates "geeks" with crappy service is probably an ignorant technophobe. After all, being called a "geek" has never been a compliment out side of teh technologically inclined subculture. Cheers. If the spelling in this post is inccorect or the english doesn't flow, my apologies. I just spent 10hrs at best buy, and I'm not feeling overly intelligent right now.
(Random quote from some sci-fi movie or TV show)
Yes, but probably not for the same reasons. I wear my geek badge with pride. It's my website and my license plates... What offends me is that these folks, from the sounds of it (I have no personal experience), haven't earned the badge. To me, it's a bit like someone calling themselves a doctor when they haven't been to medical school (or even have a Ph.D. of any sort).
Pack the sucker in foam, put it in a box and send it UPS insured for $1k or actual value, whichever is more. They'll handle it like a newborn kitten.
Douglas P. Price
... most technical support folks don't know a lot the technical stuff. It is no surprise that GeekSquad is the same. They just follow instructions (like scripts), run tools that they learned from trainings (e.g., use a CD to run an antivirus to scan and clean; not run registry editors to find out keys to remove, analyze, etc.), etc.
If people really want serious fixing with good jobs, then they need to look for the correct people. I have seen and met teenagers who know decently on computers even at a fair cost.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Nothing, 'cause you keep backups.
But there aren't many industries that are completely disintermediated, with absolutely no middlemen between the ultimate producer and the ultimate consumer. True, when too many layers exist, or when a particular layer takes too much of the value chain, opportunities arise for newer, more efficient business models (disintermediation or other forms of reorganization).
Yes, theoretically, you could market directly to Geek Squad's customers. Got ad budget? There's a big value in successful brand strategy, and Geek Squad's got it right now in this niche. For every genius who knows the guy who only charges $75, there are a dozen "idiots" who know guys who charge $300 for the same "service" and don't know any better. It's not a commodity business, by any means, so it's not surprising that prices (and quality) vary more for this than for 5-pound bags of refined sugar.
Whether or not it's good or bad at repair, Geek Squad is successful because it
- lowers consumer search costs
- provides a (perceived) uniformity of quality, much like McDonald's
- at (perceived) reasonable/low prices
Almost nobody thinks McDonald's burgers are the best in the world, or anything close. Likewise, most of us know a "better" place even for cheap, fast food. But most of us eat at McDonald's at least on occasion for one of the above reasons.You want a two-year warranty or fries with that new hard drive?
Nonsense, I say. Worse still - blasphemy! To place the nerds above the geeks is an offense of the worst kind.
There *is* a clear distinction and a value hierarchy among geeks, nerds, and dweebs, but you've got it all wrong.
What follows, I claim, is the one true classification of geekdom. It has stood up to rigorous peer review (loud arguments amongst drunken physics students) for years, and I stand by it.
A dweeb is someone without social skills who either doesn't recognize or is unable to accept that they are unusual. They constantly *try* to fit in, with disastrous results, and dedicate a significant portion of their daily lives to obsessing over how to pass as normal.
A nerd is someone without social skills or popular interests who recognizes that he or she is unlike most people and feels no shame in it.
A geek is a nerd with technical skills and passionate interests; in particular one who has a myopic dedication to a particular specialty. (This is the subspecies *true geek,* distinct from but related to the *common geek,* or nerd who is generally technically savvy and useful to have around.)
To summarize, the dweeb is the guy wearing a slightly out of fashion hipster shirt who generally creates embarrassing silences at parties by saying awkward things about pop stars or sports teams.
The nerd is the guy who skips the party in order to achieve moderately high scores on a popular video game while eating unheated canned peas with a spoon and listening to recordings of experimental music.
The geek is the guy who skips the party in order to code a popular video game, figure out the angle of repose one might expect for a pile of canned peas, or compose and record some experimental music.
On the college campus, geeks make up virtually the entire population of physics and math majors (as well as a majority in classics, many of the less trendy engineering sub-disciplines, linguistics, physical anthropology, and some of the more obscure languages.)
The nerds are the guys who drop out of school after one semester but stay in a college town working in a bookstore, where they get great discounts on whatever genre books they happen to like and talk to their geek friends about writing their own books yet never seem to actually finish any of them.
The dweebs largely end up in engineering or the quantitative business disciplines, in the hopes that they can earn enough money to buy the respect of powerful and attractive people. Those in engineering have a tough time of it, as they are publicly ignored by the normals whom they so admire while simultaneously earning the scorn and contempt of the geeks in their departments. Those in business do rather well, since they have a good chance at fooling their colleagues into thinking that they are geeks. (Normals may not invite geeks to parties, but they do like to hire them.)
I haven't been a Geek Squad agent for very long (approx. four months) but I may be able to shed some light on the situation.
As a previous member posted, and as a general principle of life, in any group of individuals you will inevitably encounter the lazy, incompetent or otherwise inept, and Geek Squad is no exception. Many GS agents are attracted to the job because of the generous discount at Best Buy, and/or have little or no passion for computers and information technology. Many agents are lazy and would simply rather ship the unit off to service and have you guys deal with it.
But just as the same previous member posted, most--if not the majority--of GS agents are very passionate about IT, are very knowledgeable about computer diagnosis and repair, and deal with problems as per SOP and don't pass off petty issues to service. You also have to consider that when we're dealing face-to-face with oftentimes clueless customers, time is a huge factor. When a customer is sitting there at the counter in front of a long line of other customers asking me why sound isn't coming out of his laptop's speakers, I'll probably check the device manager, volume control, and run a few audio apps to generate sound. If I play with it for 5 or 10 minutes (10 minutes is an eternity when there is a huge line) and still can't figure it out, then I'll probably send it to service. You guys get the laptop at the service center and it turns out there was a hardware volume control I didn't notice that was turned all the way down. You turn it up, it works, you call me a moron, the cycle continues.
It may also amuse you to know, Zenitram, that many Geek Squad Agents are quick to blame the service center for similar incompetence. I'm always sending back units to service because the original problem was not solved properly, or the service tech did not read/understand my notes. It's also very frustrating for the customer, and thus myself, when a unit goes out for an issue utterly unrelated to the hard drive (such as no audio) and it comes back with a formatted HDD with a nice little note saying basically "your audio works but oh, by the way, you lost all your shit. sorry. reinstall windows with your OEM discs. thanks for using best buy service!" It goes both ways.
-austinYou hit the nail on the head. That's exactly the point of Geek Squad and similar repair/upgrade services. It's all too easy for slashdotters to pile on Geek Squad, since they don't do much that's very difficult (and I doubt they pay enough to to attract top-notch techs anyway, so they have to send things out a lot, duh). But the typical home or business computer user is NOT a geek.
Yes, there are lots of geeks of varying degrees, but not everyone wants to know how to par tition a hard drive, install device drivers or diagnose problems that turn out to be merely software related. My mom wants Word and Photoshop to work, and that's it. She doesn't care about overclocking for 7% better performance in a game, maximizing her server's reliability or learning Linux inside and out. She still INSISTS of using Netscape, for Pete's sake. Looke at how many people who can afford broadband still use dialup. People like them are plenty willing to pay for someone else to worry about their problems, or else wait patiently for me to have a chance to check it out. Or they buy Macs.
I'm not sure why so many tech-savy folks can't understand that they are special (although they often like to point out that they are), or that not everyone wants to be a computer expert. I like driving my neat little car around town, but I'll be damned if I'm going to freeze my butt off if it needs brakes in the winter. Bodywork? Hah! Simple and labor-intensive, but not thanks. I'm not mechanically inept, but I have a job and like to have dirty work done for me sometimes. And how is this news or "stuff that matters?"
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
That doesn't sound like a Windows problem, that sounds like an Adobe problem, or possibly a driver problem... Or possibly a Windows problem, but that wouldn't be my first assumption.
Blame where blame's due; Windows has its flaws, Office has its flaws, Microsoft has its flaws. But when comments like this are made, I envision one of two things:
If we use anecdotes as a metric to guage product quality, Windows is the most amazing OS ever. My seven machines at home that I use for audio/video/image editing, 3D modeling, gaming, development, and lab machines never crash... ever. My 1000+ user environments that I architect using Microsoft solutions almost never have an issue, and even less rarely an issue that is caused directly by an MS product. OTOH, my Linux box has never had all its hardware working concurrently, it crapped out when I tried to recompile my kernel, and I can't configure it the way I want. Clearly this means Linux is the paperweight, and Windows is, like, deus ex machina, right? No; it simply means that Windows is the right platform for my needs, and I know enough about it to make it work for me. And that I'm a clueless Linux n00b.
Slashdot: News for nerds. Stuff tha-- MICRO$OFT IS THE DEVIL!!1
Sure, there's no return call, but there's no repeat business.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
I work as a Department Manager for a certain Best Buy competitor in the Service Department.
I always hear the same gripes about the Geek Squad, and I don't buy any of them. Anyone who's worked in a retail service environment knows how much different it is than the "mom and pop" style repair stores.
One main difference with a smaller operation is almost all the customer walking in the door are going to be paying you cash. If you charge $100 for a virus removal, you're going to be doing a great job and doing it quickly. Word of mouth is your best way to increase your sales. In the retail space, the majority of the customers are coming in to get an item repaired under a manufacturer or store warranty, get an item processed for return, and only a handful of the customers are paying you cash for your service, of which you see a tiny portion of that on your check. You may be pulling in 1-2k a day in part/labor sales, but you get around $80 of that.
There's no real motivation to do a job quickly or effeciently except for pride, which fortunately alot of my techs have. They like to make the customers happy, and take pride in their work. Other than that, you do whatever job will make you the most money with the least work. If i can spend 3 hour hunting down drivers, dlls and missing OS files to fix a corrupted windows install for $69, or just do a data backup and reformat for $69 + $49, which one will I do? With the condition the systems coming in here, it almost always a better option to reformat than to try and salvage the system.
There's no money in fixing a hardware issue anymore either. We have eMachine systems that all fail in the same way, motherboard/power supply fails. With the cost of new PSU, mobo and new CPU for the new sockets, it gets to over $350 parts/labor. We got Compaq PCs for $279. Why bother?
Here's just a few of the common problems we deal with on a daily basis.
-Systems with virus/spyware so bad that removal results in windows corruption. Customers insist this is covered by their "warranty"
-Systems infested with rodents or insects including cockaroaches. Customers insist this is covered by their "warranty"
-System with cracked screens, snapped off D/C jacks, or broken hinges. Customers insist this is covered by their "warranty"
Look, I'm not making excuses for a poor tech. We get our fair share of these jokers in here, but luckily we require A+ certification and have a strict "probabtion" period. But the types of customers that come into our stores and the GeekSquad are the most basic computer novices looking for help. They could care less if you fixed the problem with a painstaking OS image and repair install, or if you just reformatted and pushed "My Documents" to disc. As long as they can get the unit back online to check email and download "Cool Screensavers!!", they're happy.
Yeah I've been starving them, teasing them, singing off key. Me may mah mo, me mo ma me.
...The Geek Squad was a respected, high end technical company, hiring only computer professionals with certifications to show it. I managed a small computer store that was part chain of franchises. When the franchisee went backrupt they were all looking for work (I had gotten a new job shortly before). I was writing a few letters of recommendation and such and was told that all these good technicians wouldn't even be talked to by the Geek Squad due to only a couple years experience and no certs. Then BestBuy bought them, needed to hire dozens, hell hundreds, of techs, and from reports I have heard, their name is kind of a joke now... That being said, it's been so many years since I have had to bring my computer to a tech I'd probably melt if I ever had to now...
dB Masters
Can we ban the use of Architect as a verb in IT? Those people have worked very hard and get paid very little in comparison to us. The least we can do is not steal their title and use it as a verb. Along those same lines, Architect and Engineer are registered and licensed professions. Let's not steal their titles unless you think you want to be licensed and have to work years as an intern before you even get to take the test.
You don't ever Chef something, you'd cook it. The same with an Architect, you would design something.
Engineers and Architects in the IT field go to school just as long to learn their professions or they spend long hours learning them the hard way. They get the right to use words in our language to describe them like: Engineer and Architect.
Is not someone who is able to design a business system ingenious? Is not someone able to construct a corporate network a "master builder"? You don't Architect a home network the same way you don't Architect a tool shed and you don't Engineer a shell script the same way you don't Engineer a rubber band gun.
In short, its the English language and this is how its used. Deal with the vernacular bub.
I wear the ring.
I'll second that.
I've spoken to a few around here when purchasing some hardware at best buy and beyond the absolute minimum basics, they know nothing.
I'll give my respect to the ONE member I spoke to who admitted knowing nothing, but promised to do some research if I needed a service call (I didn't...I can do that on my own...I was just asking a question) but the rest, it was a amazing the bull they'd spew (one of them seemed quite fond of the BOFH, not realizing I knew about it).
The problems the OP describes with systems he received do not surprise me one bit. However, I don't think this kind of service is really marketted for businesses is it? I mean, I always thought it was geared towards the ULTRA newbie who would have problem plugging in a usb mouse and such. I mean my impression is that they are no better or worse than any large chain minimum wage tech support peons... rebranded with a "cool" new image and such.
"I'm not a procrastinator, I'm temporally challenged"
I know a guy who got a job at Best Buy. They made sure he had his A+ certification. He studied from some videos and books he downloaded from the internet for a couple nights, and passed. I still wouldn't want him fixing my computer. They expect you to know a lot of useless stuff, like memorizing IRQs of COM ports, but don't expect you to know useful stuff, like how to go into the BIOS and disable quick POST so that it actually tests the memory. Or how to diagnose problems that actually occur in real life. This guy isn't dumb, and knows his way around a computer, but I still wouldn't trust him fixing my computer. Its a kin to getting the guy down the street to fix your car, because he spend a couple days memorizing facts about cars, without actually knowing how to diagnose or fix the problem.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
But that's not what I'm doing at all. I wholly agree that my poor Linux experience is because I don't know nearly enough about Linux (hence saying that I was a "clueless Linux n00b"). The whole point of my post was that in most cases, it's not the OS that's at fault, it's one or more external factors.
Yeah, I'd love to be able to wipe out half the crap in Windows and leave only the features I need (although I already do by using XPe, but that's not a standard capability of Windows); and I really like that Linux does let you do that. But it's a compromise; I forfeit that ability but instead have a system that (for me) is easier to use and does everything I need... and does it pretty well.
I've had driver issues for a bunch of my hardware (not necessarily on the latest distros), including my Audigy 2, my Radeon video card, my Podxt guitar interface, my M-Audio microphone interface, and the SATA controller on my motherboard. The kernel compiled successfully, but I couldn't boot into it; I probably just removed some component I shouldn't have. But again, I wasn't bashing Linux, just showing why anecdotal evidence shouldn't be submitted as a conclusive measurement of a product.
Slashdot: News for nerds. Stuff tha-- MICRO$OFT IS THE DEVIL!!1
I've been in the support business for almost 20 years and have hired and fired many deskside techs - and IM frequently less than HO there's no reason to format a functioning hard drive unless the drive's been repartitioned.
I've seen many times where it wasn't worth the *time* required to repair a Windows installation but I've never seen a Windows box trashed badly enough that the drive *needed* a reformat. Customer data is valuable to the customer and if a tech can't fix the machine without reinstalling the OS or reformatting the drive then the problem is with that tech's skill level, not with the machine.
Part of the problem is that we as technicians place unreasonable expectations on our customers - that although every tech here knows that computers require periodic maintenance it's not reasonable to assume that our customer knows it - or even to know that all hard drives fail if you run them long enough and that they need to back up their data. If they knew this stuff they wouldn't need us anyway ;-)
Customers are why we as technicians exist - I don't do much deskside support any more, these days my time is spent between ADP R&D and designing enterprise architecture, but one thing I do know is that if a tech tells me my hard drive needs to be reformatted I need to find another tech ;-)
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
Why did this even make it onto "Ask Slashdot"? Does this actually carry some importants somewhere? This sounds more like a water-cooler joke here at work. Not something I should be wasting work time reading when I could be wasting work time reading something more important like Groklaw bashing SCO...
That was a valuable gift you gave your friend. I hope he appreciates you.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Basically, from what I gather, they take a shotgun approach to almost any problem.
"Oh, having problems with your drivers?" Image the drive.
"Word not working?" Image the drive.
"System locking up?" Image the drive.
And so on...
But then, when all you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I don't know much about cars, but when I take mine in for service, I'd like the person who works on it to be an expert mechanic.
Likewise, if a relative of mine takes their PC to Geek Squad, it would be nice if the guy who looks at it knows how to diagnose simple driver problems or hardware failures.
That's one thing I like about the so-called "genius bars" in the Apple retail stores. They are not perfect and have a lot of the same problems as any other support center, (and their wait times are sometimes maddening), but since that particular support center is owned by the vendor, and the presige of the entire fucking company is on the line every time they help somebody, there's tremendous corporate pressure for those people to know what the hell they are doing and to act like professionals.
I know several people who now refuse to buy any computer other than Macs, not because they like the OS so much or because they think the hardware is anything special, but simply because they know that if there's a problem, they can get help which is actually, you know, helpful. For a non-techie, this is far beyond worth the mark-up on Apple's computers.
Swerving back on to the topic at hand, The Geek Squad is really not much worse than a lot of other tier-1 PC support centers out there. They just happen to be the most visible. The support industry is rife with people who don't even know what defrag does, let alone when it would be useful to use it.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
On another occasion I heard a Geek Squad guy tell an elderly couple that hyperthreading was "like having 2 processors in 1." I nearly flipped my lid, but that's a different story for a different day.
Have YOU ever tried explaining something remotely technical to an elderly couple? I don't blame that guy for giving a half-assed answer. It would be easier than spending an hour explaining a concept that the old geezers would still not understand or even remember the next day. Besides, as far as Windows is concerned, hyperthreading IS like having 2 processors in 1 (even though I'm sure everyone here understands the real way in which it works).
Considering a) the audience and b) the fact that HT "allows a Hyper-Threading equipped processor to pretend to be two "logical" processors to the host operating system" (per Wikipedia), I fail to see why this oversimplificaton was egregious to the point of lid-flipping.
In my opinion, this sounds like nothing more malicious than adapting the message to the audience.
On the other hand, replacing a new battery to stop a buzzing heatsink does show inexperience, ineptitude, and incompetence.
I used to work in the computer repair department of Best Buy and I was on my way out as this Geek squad travesty was put in place. You see I like to think of myself as a competent tech, maybe even good. I know other at least competent techs that worked with me, and although the person who hired me was interested in my technical skill this is not what Best Buy wants. Best Buy wants to get you in for a 1 hour diagnostic $60. You dont fix the issue at this point you just find what is wrong. Then depending on what the issue is, most of the time it was spy or addware. You then sell the customer a $40 service to do a spyware scan and removal, using one of the shitty pieces of software that Best Buy carries. During this process you examine the machine for "upgrades" more memory, larger HD, new video card. Even though the issues the customer is having may be totally independent of the hardware they have, but you are still required to "advise" the customer that these upgrades are necesary. Then the poor customer shells out for over priced hardware and another $20 to $40 to install it. Best Buy doesnt want to fix problems they want to sell you services. I found this out as I noticed my hours being cut more and more, it wasnt because I had a slow turnaround time on the machines I took in but because I wasnt "recomending" services to the customer, even though I knew they didnt need more memory, or that they didnt need MSN dialup because they already had DSL, but we are always susposed to offer. This became readily apparent in two situations someone came in their computer would not boot, at that time Best Buy did allow for us to look at a machine for a few minutes at the counter before we tried to fleece the customer. I determined that a restore was needed on the system. I asked him if he had his recovery cd's he said yes and I told him he just needs to do a recovery. He asked me if he could do it himself and I told him he could, and proceded to tell him how. Put the cd in follow the prompts. The new manager for the computer department heard me helping this person and I was later dressed down for giving out technical information. Another time a woman cam in, in tears her laptop crashed and she had her doctoral thesis on it that was due in the morning. I would have just charged the $60 poped the drive in one of our machines and gotten it for her, but since one of the manager's lackey's was around I had to offer the data recovery service which is way expensive and takes a week. So if you like to buy useless services then Best Buy is for you but there are no Geeks there just greasey salesmen. The prices I quoted are from the time I worked there I am sure there has been significant markup since then.
In my previous life, I was a Mechanical Engineer for 12 years. I designed fire protection systems, steam systems, chiller systems, HVAC systems etc. For the last 9 years, I've been working in IT (administratiom not programming). It still riles me up when I see someone in IT with a title of Engineer. Unless you're designing CPU's, motherboards, or other electronic parts using knowledge gained as part of your Electrical Engineering degree, you are NOT and Engineer.
Self awareness - try it!
It's interesting.. I was on a business trip and realized I needed a simple USB cable. Best Buy was right by the hotel, so against my better judgement I went in. The ONLY USB cables they had were of the "monster" style with massive braided sheilds, etc. and the LEAST expensive cable was $39 for a standard 6' cable!!! WTF? The 12 year old sales boy (he looked 12 anyway) claimed that that was all they carried. I made a comment that only an idiot would pay that much for a simple USB cable and walked out.
Lucky for me, there was a Walmart (which I also detest) next to the BB which had an APC brand cable for $7.
Frankly, there is no reason to ever patronize Best(Bad)Buy. Ever.
Wow, does nobody understand his point? He's not a windows fanboy, he openly admits he doesn't know Linux well enough to use it properly. His point is, for those who either won't read the whole post or simply cannot comprehend, that it is just as wrong for him to BLAME Linux for his lack of knowledge as it is for some that BLAME Windows for their lack of knowledge. He's not REALLY saying Windows is better than Linux (nor is he saying Linux is better than Windows). He was just making a (valid) point.
There's another factor at play that goes beyond technical skills, knowledge, or even sales. That factor is time. All of the items listed would take time to do, and time costs money, unless you charge per hour. In that case, time earns money. They could simply pass the item to you with a simple diagnosis, charge for part replacement ($$$$). Or on the off chance that you do actually diagnose and resolve the real issue (which takes time), the customer is happier and willing to 1) pay for the 2 1/2 to 3 hours of service charges, and 2) going to be happy to bring their computer back to the highly competent Geek Squad. Meanwhile, Best Buy is charging over and above what the shop charges them, so the longer a diagnosis takes, the more money Best Buy brings in. Misdiagnosis either costs the customer in time ($$$) or parts ($$$). Why would they want super-geeks dispatched to every call? That's not wise. It's much smarter to hire low-paid pretty-boys for service (more like service) calls, and earn money through outsourcing the actual work.
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You fail to understand the retail environment computer stores are now facing. Computers have gotten so cheap and commonplace that there is no money to be made. You can't even hardly make money on computer repair either, since it is getting to the point that you can buy a new computer cheaper than paying to have it repaired. That has already been the case with monitors, printers, and other peripherals for years now. So retailers want to stay in business so they have to find ways to make up profits on other stuff. Consumer electronics (TVs, car stereos, etc..) have a little better profit margin. But places like Wal-Mart make it impossible for specialty stores to compete anymore.
"Have YOU ever tried explaining something remotely technical to an elderly couple?"
Yes, yes I have. And people don't give the "Old Geezers" much credit. After all, they are the generation that built society and technology to the level where we got it. How did the 'Old Geezers' do that? Dumb Luck?
Sheesh. If there is anything wrong with society today, it's assuming someone with 5X the life experience you have is irrelevant because of a few wrinkles.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
Geek Squad is really a company that is run by people that know how to "market" an idea and form relationships with large companies, like Best Buy. It has yet to be proven if they can actually sustain the company and make money in the long term. So, don't lose any sleep over them.
Geek Squad's leaders know the biggest problem is where to find network engineers or computer guys that can actually do the work they are oferring and get it right most of the time without wiping out a customer's system. I've never seen or read their service agreement, but I'd be willing to bet that someplace in there it says, "Customer is responsible for making and keeping a backup of the contents of all information stored on the computer..." so that when the geek-tech wipes out your Quicken database with five years of history, they say, "...it's your own fault! and 'No Refund'"
The bottom line is, who do you think they are actually hiring? It's the guys who went to Dr. PC Professor's DVD-based Crash Course in computer technology, make $75K per year courses you hear about on the radio all the time. These are the guys, who in high school learned how to fdisk and format a hard-drive on their own, and were considered future "Bill Gates" or "Steve Wozniack" geniuses by their PC illerate parents and teachers. And, they are too lazy to get a college degree in IT, so they borrow $12,000 or so and sign on the dotted line to get A+, or Network+ certified or maybe even paper-MCSE certified. The reality is that they graduate from Dr. PC Professor's DVD class with nothing more than a sheet of paper and a new student loan payment of $350 per month for the next 10 years and some friends ready to cash in and make it big with their new-found cerification.
Then, they get a reality check/reconcilation with a person at the school they just "graduated" from who says, "...You are among a select group of 100,000 IT experts who just graudated today!!! And we are here today to help you get a job anywhere in this wonderful field of computers 'if you are willing to do what we say'".
Basically, they are telling them they qualify for the worst entry level positions out there for whatever minimum wage + 10% is in their respective states. So, Geek Squad comes along and partners with these schools and says, "how many [sheep] do you have for us today?". And they hire these guys without even meeting with them.
Then, Geek Squad sends out their "Master Geek" to train the new recruits on how to get a customer to sign an agreement, and process their credit card payment in such a way that they will never need to refund them their money. The last thing they try to do is teach them how to memorize a list of things you should never do on a customer's computer: fdisk, format, deltree, del, ren, xcopy, copy, never touch anything in c:\ and below, do not use regedit or regedt32, and no right-clicking anything, etc. And, when you answer the customer, always use the words "...it should...", "...I can try...", "...it is supposed to...", and lastly, "...the manufacturer says..." instead of anything else they might make the customer think they will be able to solve their problem.
Now their recruit is taught how to dress, shake hands, smile and get their geek mobile washed. Oh, and we can't forget how to put gas in it either. And, "don't break any traffic rules too."
So, if you wonder why us guys at $125 per hour network engineers (take home pay) are booked for five days in advance, with multiple college degrees, with more than 15 years of experience on at least two platforms, live in million dollar gated communities, can work anywhere in the world on any project, own four cars and don't mind paying our $900 Mobil Gas Credit card bills with the cash we carry or keep in the vault at home, then you'll know why we laugh when the "Geek Mobil" is next to us at the traffic light.
You're missing the point on the secret shoppers. The candy and receipt just proves they were there at that time so their employer has some idea that the data they collected is valid and dated correctly.
The solution here is very simple but does not fit with there plans.
Best Buy "tech" shows up with external USB extermal drive case. Backs up the drive. reinstslls. done. no real skill needed.
Problem: this costs real time. It also has some risks that the users disk is bad. If I do this for a customer and the disk is bad I don't charge for the backup. also you are less likely to pay for a new computer. This should be carry in service if possible.
Users do not want to pay for 2 hours of tech time just because they did not backup. (by the time all is said and done it is 2 hours got to drive the funny car...)
Also, people who are going to drop a few grand on a nice TV or home stereo are probably going to do it at a nice A/V shop with knowledgable employees instead of dealing with the blue shirt idiots. It blows my mind why someone with cash to spend on a nice setup would get crap consumer grade equipment at best buy rather than going to a real store and paying just a little more for quality.
I'm willing to bet Best Buy and other retailers begged HP and other manufacturers to leave the cable out.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
I still work for the Geek Squad and that is definitely the case. They don't offer the positions or the pay to make it worthwhile to stay as an in-store tech. You either go on to be a Sales Manager at best buy, or you become an on-site tech for a while but even that doesn't offer the pay to make it worthwhile to stay with the company for very long. As soon as I get my degree, I'm leaving Geek Squad and when I do, it'll only be the untrained kids left. That's the flaw in Best Buy's system, they don't make it worthwhile for well-trained people to stay.
Ok...
Slashdot has completely distorted your perception of reality. I'm 22 years old. I can round up 10 early-20-somethings and 10 early-60-somethings. Their knowledge of UNIX will be roughly the same. I promise you; kids/students my age have no idea what the fuck's UNIX. It's impressive when they've heard of Linux.
I got rid of Windows on my sister's computer and replaced it with Linux. She is happily chugging along and I no longer have to make Geek Squad like repairs (i.e. spend 2 hours running Ad-Aware and Spybot, because scheduling them to run never quite works right...). Linux simply works for her, not becuase it's Linux but a proper solution for her. Over half of her friends actively question why she would use Firefox. And her family friends... they don't have a fucking clue how to use her computer, because it's "Linux"... they're just to stupid to realize it's the same point and click interface (well, KDE's running) and it would take them 10 minutes to pick up the different interface. My sister learned KDE without any training from me. She just got it. Only questions she's asked me is "How do I sync my iPod?" but nothing along the lines of "How do I type a paper...". These are 18 year olds...
Yeah, no fucking way 20-somethings "know" UNIX.
Boycott Sony
Majority of people buy stuff based on advertising. They see a cool looking LCD tv at Best Buy or Sam's Club, whip out the credit card and are on their way. Researching stuff is work, don't j'a know?
I drank what? -- Socrates
b) At the BB closest to me, I cannot buy a tube TV anymore. They do not stock them. Everything is LCD/Plasma. Those are great items to have but not everyone can afford $1000 or more for a TV. Heck I wouldn't want to put that kinda TV in my kids rooms. So at that BB, people w/o the $ (or willingness to spend the $) for high item TV probably don't even shop there.
Assuming that Best Buy secret shoppers work like all the other places I've seen it done, purchasing a $1000 would be increadibly stupid. Secret Shoppers are supposed to look around for problems, not buy expensive items. The two most important parts of what a secret shopper does are walking around while carefully observing the store, and talking to the employees while pretending to be a customer. The purchase only does two things, it gives them an excuse to talk to a cashier (and watch them deal with other customers), and it proves that they were at the store at some point and arn't just making up stuff.
The key factor that most of the PE's are arguing about is that once granted the designation, Professional Engineer, they bear the sole responsibility for the accuracy and correctness of the decisions behind everything they sign off on designing or approving. Meaning that if it breaks and kills some one after completion, they are responsible. When software designers are signed up for that, then they can call themselves engineers.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Jeesh, I had no idea.
Sounds like I'm raising my fees for PC repair.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
They may be part of the generation that did that, but doest that suddenly make them the pioneers that actually did something, doubtful, particularly if they need someone from Geek Squad to help.
Rednecks are part of the generation that made the current day internet, but I dont see anyone rushing to give them credit for it.
A small percentage of a generation actually does something, the rest just take credit for it.
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
Many years ago, the Canadian version of Best Buy had a great sale on floppy diskettes.
When I walked into the store, they had 3 pallettes of floppies on display in the middle of the aisle. I experienced a rare moment of insight - when computer stuff is on display the same way cans of soup are displayed at a grocery store, the margins are probably as crappy as cans of soup - mom'n'pop computer stores were doomed.
Re-read my original post. In this case, Walmart was the lesser of two evils. Both companies actually operate very much the same. Low-quality products and business practices that screw America. BB actually is a little worse than Walmart due to the fact that "screw the customer at every opportunity" has been added to the formula.