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Ancient Reptile Had Wings Like a Fighter Jet
anthemaniac writes "A reptile that lived 225 million years ago had triangular-shaped wings like the delta-wings of some jets. At least that's what a new computer model suggests. Researcher have generated several possible shapes for the wings of Sharovipteryx mirabili before, so this is just the latest guess (based on one fossil). Last fall NatGeo reported that the first biplane configuration was on a dinosaur. Maybe airplane designers should delve into the fossil record a little more."
I would find that a true delta configuration would be unlikely as there would be little evolutionary advantage to developing an inherently less stable "wing" configuration for the low speed flying that this creature would be doing.
....... unlikely in this creature.
The whole reason that flight engineers started adopting the delta wing configuration is that it allowed the shockwave for supersonic flight to be better controlled flight by moving the leading edge of the wing back behind the terminus. This is great for high speed flight, but miserable for low speed flight as it requires very high stall speeds that would be
Furthermore, if one looks at just about any flying creature now or in the past, the leading edge of their "wing" has always been protected by bone, feather or both. To have an unprotected membrane as the leading edge of the "wing" that could be easily damaged would be devastating to the aerodynamic properties and the overall fitness of the organism. From these reasons, I would be much more likely to believe the first alternative reconstruction of Sharovipteryx mirabilis where the membranes could be protected and even gathered up when not in use, a function that would not be possible with standard articulation of the bones as presented in the figures of Dykes representation.
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A reptile that lived 225 million years ago had triangular-shaped wings
You mean "6,000 years ago an all-powerful sky-wizard designed a miraculous flying beast and a mate for travel on Noah's Ark."
Trolling is a art,
We need to stop looking at ancient fossils, we need to go and ask the only living relative of this creature just what they were for and how they looked.
This reptile was clearly the ancestor of MC Hammer.
Back in reality now (after a cold shower) some Bats have practically identical skin flaps between their legs even nowadays.
As for diving into the fossil records, we should be trying to model our aircraft on living birds and bats and insects, at least then we don't need a computer to guess how it should work. I would rather put my trust into something when there are plenty of study models to base a design from, not a single sample guestimate.
We can already soar like an eagle perhaps we need the manoeuvrability of a bat for urban airports?
liqbase
There's a red-tail hawk that hangs out over (or lives in) our office complex. Whenever I'm at the airport, I'm always struck by how similar his wingtips are to those on the CRJ-700.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
We know this animal from a single fossil; why do we think it flew? Not trying to troll, but the bone structure evident in that illustration looks perfectly suitable as a land animal, and kinda iffy as a flyer.
I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
"What do the latest simulations look like?"
"The computer suggests that the bird had 'fighter plane'-like wings..."
"Let me see that hardcopy!"
"...WTF? A concorde-type nose? Who the **** has been messing with my simulation-apps again? ****ing undergrads!"
I, for one, welcome our reptile fighter-j.... ah never mind, too easy....
Is this some sort of religiously inspired ID nonsense?
You know, I have come up with the perfect compromise for the creationists. We scientists will gladly start using "might have evolved" and "may have lived millions of years ago" if you will change the Bible to say "Moses may have parted the red sea" and "God could have said 'let there be light'".
Unpleasantries.
A reptile that lived 225 million years ago had triangular-shaped wings like the delta-wings of some jets.
No, some jets have delta-wings like reptiles that lived 225 million years ago.
Seems like a bad idea if you ask me, because last I checked they all died. Its probably also why nobody has made a machine based off the dodo. Stupid dodos.
no, now shut up or we won't share any future technologies based on science with you.
I was thinking that the title should really read "Fighter Jet Has Wings Like an Ancient Reptile", seeing as the fighter jet came 200 million years later and all...
You are saying that this looks like a CRJ-700?
You lost me. Well, I mean - they both have wings, I guess. But I don't think the CRJ-700 can bend it's wings.
I don't even want to speculate about the missiles.
Uh, built by the lowest bidder? Or by friends of the senator?
While I might just misunderstand, it looks like this lizard developed flight on its own. This means the question isn't "is this form of flight more advantageous than other forms of flight?" but "is this form of flight more advantageous than no flight at all?"
And for all we know, maybe the configuration wasn't advantageous. Maybe the delta configuration was too problematic to work in the long term. After all, the lizard did go extinct.
By the way, just wanted to let you know that part of your username is spelled wrong. It's actually YHWH. Perhaps you should read the appropriate article on Wikipedia:
e ls_of_YHWH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YHWH#Using_the_vow
Yeah, but the lizard failed to file for a patent and thus lost its right to claim the original design.
Mmmm.. Donuts
For what flying animal flies like a helicopter?
Defining Statistics and Social Research
...And I for one welcome our jet-powered reptilian overlords.
Or not. Shut the fuck up.
read it yourself.
"This is a discussion of transcription of 'YHWH'. For the deity these letters represent, see Yahweh."
"Many sacred name ministries who believe that YHWH consists of four vowels pronounce these four vowels as "ee-ah-oo-eh" and believe that indicates God's name was either "Yahweh" or "Yahuweh"."
but I guess if you had decent comprehension skills you wouldn't be a fundamentalist. or maybe you just didn't RTFBible in the first place.
Ever considered the possibility that looking cool would be an evolutinary advantage?
Sexual display often drives evolution. The brighter the feathers, the bigger the tusks, the stinkier the stink gland, it can all lead to natural selection. If that's what you meant by "cool," then you may have something there. In this case, it could be that the bigger the rear-leg skin flaps, the more attractive to the female. Lots of birds have huge feathers that are only for display. In some cases they make flight impossible, but display takes priority. Any reason why that couldn't be what's going on here?
crap, I just contradicted my other post.
"To control speed, the researchers think the reptilian glider varied the spread of its legs."
Just like my girlfriend.
If I draw a picture of a squished thing which is different from previous pictures of a squished thing -- you know, something no one will ever be able to verify -- can I get an article about my pretty picture, too? It'd look good on my grant applications.
Looking at the fossil then at the wing configurations IMO (b) appears to be more likely, ie. bat-like. I reckon 'delta wing fighter-like' is nothing more than a case of wishful thinking so these paleontologists can drum up some media attention.
Does anyone else see something wrong with basing something on one bone that's been fossilized? When mainstream scientists can't even explain exactly how these bones lasted as long as they think they did?
Did I see this on The Flintstones once...?
Tyrannosaurus rexs in F14s.
Guys, leave the parent poster alone. Everybody knows dinosaur fossils were put in the ground to test man's faith in the almighty Lord our God. /rolls eyes
Also, God bless George W. Bush!
I second the grammar nazi!
I didn't notice at first. Must be tired. It's a terrible typo/non-sensical sentence. At last I can rest peacefully.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
The Flying Spaghetti Monster only created a mountain and dwarf. All hail our delta-winged overlords
So could some defense contractor use an aspect of this fossil's design as evidence of prior art in a patent dispute?
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Personally, I'm going with Larry Gonick on this one. All praise Yahoo-Wahoo!
Chris Mattern
If by "god" you mean "the flying spaghetti monster" (praised be his noodly appendage), then yes. Ramen, brother!
Also, the FSM won't bless Dubya as long as he refuses to wear the full pirate regalia when preaching the FSM-inspired ID theory.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Considering that most dinosaurs were herbivores and ate a lot of beans and grass, not only did they have delta-wings of some jets, they probably had jet exhaust engines aswell :).
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
(It could equally well have been a freak one-off mutation that was wholly incapable of propogating further. Given the low probability of fossilization that would seem unlikely, but given the very high number of fossil collectors, if such an animal did fossilize, it would likely be found sooner or later.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Assuming it ate large numbers of beans, that is.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Not really. There have probably been hundreds of thousands of "good designs" that have been wiped out because of global catastrophes or simple because the environment gradually changed. An organism that transports oxygen with blood based on copper instead of iron, is not necessarily obsolete but just not called for at the moment.
How come all the cool animals are extinct?
Given that there's generally at least a tiny bit of truth in legends, and knowing that the bombardier beetle can emit a kind of hot chemical spray from its butt to defend itself, I wonder if the ancient reptile looked anything like the little guy in this picture (sorry it's not a better image).
Isn't he cute? His name's Errol.
Te Quiero, Puta!
wings like a hang glider... like the "Rogallo wing" which is a delta planform, not because of compressibility reasons pertinent to supersonic flight but because the delta shape allows easy pitch control without a tail. I suppose we can't PROVE that the beast didn't go mach 1+ but pro'lly it didn't....
Look out, Godzilla!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodan
It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
that comet wiped them out when it did or soon they would've evolved Hellfire missiles and us puny humans wouldn't have had a chance.
I know of another creature, vaguely reptilian to the less-informed, with triangular "wings". It is sleek like a fighter-jet (perhaps more so than this dinosaur)...
... and comes with frikkin' lasers on it's HEAD!
Sweet!
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
On the other hand, such an animal would be quite tasty when served raw.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
All future fighters use forward-swept wings, like X-29 (US) and Su-47 (Russia):
Image-google su-47 for some cool in-flight images.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
The creature was a glider, not a flier. Its entire "flight" was a controlled stall in a peculiar almost-vertical configuration that would have allowed it to grab onto things with its forearms as it fell. Also, the almost-vertical configuration means that it's hard to consider any edges as being "leading edges." The large area of the tail membrane would make it a more likely target than the forearm membranes.
"I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
I mean for propulsion purposes. This way it will have both the delta-wing and a jet engine, so the resemblance to the modern jet fighter is even better.
Obviously the scientists who came up with this have been watching too much Japanimation.
Squid use a delta fin and they have been around for something like 450 million years.
Ha!
Granted, your post wasn't ostenibly about ID. But the language and thinking by which ID creeps into the debate was there, and I wanted to clarify the point. I'm not attributing any agenda or anything like that.
Though as a previous poster mentioned the delta wings do look pretty cool, but if this is the correct wing configuration for the creature it seems like would definately be an advantage for hunting. Some birds (modern descendents of dinosaurs) can hit 100 miles per hour or more in an attack dive, and having delta wings would allow this dinosaur to achieve high dive speeds while still maintaing some control. Maybe it's possible that given this creature's low weight (1/10th of a pound) that it devloped this wing configuration through evolution because it spent its life completely airborne, and so a wing configuration based on high-speed attack was more important than being able to fly at low speeds for say, takeoff and landing.
Furthermore, if one looks at just about any flying creature now or in the past, the leading edge of their "wing" has always been protected by bone, feather or both.
That's not true. The leading edge of a bird's wing is called the patagium, and is simply skin that is stretched from the humerus to the carpal joint. The leading edge of a bat wing is similar, but in bats, all the skin of the wing is referred to as the patagium, while the leading edge is called the propatagium. In either case, the leading edge of the wing is very vulnerable to damage; one of my veterinarian friends, who volunteers at a raptor rehabilitation center, sees many cases where the bird's patagium has been torn (bird vs. cat, bird vs. barbed wire fence, etc), and generally in those cases the bird never flies again. It's actually one of the most vulnerable areas on a bird.
At least that's what a new computer model suggests.
You mean the artist using Photohop?
The lizard probably figured that the patent would have expired during those past 225 million years anyway.
Note to Storming-Mormin, Raining-Baptist, Overcast-Catholic and Cloudy-Muslim.
Do not read parent. It is sarcastic of religion and God's story of Noah's boat for animals (and giant reptiles). It was probably written by humanist logical scientists.
One should accept God's word as a child would. That simplifies the problem.
Having a delta wings configuration does not offer anything over the classic bird wing configuration, because when birds want to dive they retract their wings into delta shape. Not only delta, but then can almost make wings disappear and dive like a rock.
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sha^H^H^H S. mirabilis with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!
I dream in binary.
Let's make a box, and call it the "Arthur's Brain Box" > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/ 19/0026239
While Arthur's brain is safely contained in the box, let's fix
his body, at least bring him up to the level of our aP2 lab rats >
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/1 9/0116249
We'll use our brand new toys to do these things "for Arthur" whether
he really wants to or not, sort of like imminent human domain >
There's a new laser > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/1 9/1553242
as well as many new-fangled tools we can try out er use >
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/1 9/1710200
because we still have ze painful memory of how MAD Arthur
got the last time we left tools inside his but tocks... Well, let's see.
Fixed body, brain running optimium speed from a secure lock box.
Maybe we can give Arthur something special he will treasure a long time >
We can add a few specks of that 225,000,000 year old dinosaur DNA we found >
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/1 9/2057223 .
hahahahahahaha
Arthur, ARTHUR! You can wake up now Arthur.
Time to go to work and looks like you'll have to really fly.
Guessing as usual...!
I believe parent is Calvin and Hobbes reference. Therefore, mod up.
The DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) is where Americans queue up to get their driving licenses renewed.
Take off every 'sig' !!
As far as I can remember this mutant thing was a poor prototype for fighter jets dinosaurs produced (or rather bred and raised, if you will). The project failed miserably and was abolished long long ago. It's funny to see how monkeys found a spare part to exactly this model in 225 million years and how they repeat old design mistakes in jet fighters these days.
;-)
PS. mod this informative
...a new membrane configuration for S. mirabilis, one they say is unique because it is grounded in aerodynamics. Ummm...are these the same aerodynamics theories that say bumblebees can't fly? "At low flight speeds, there is no real reason to have a wing this shape, but delta wings work efficiently at fast speeds, especially supersonic," Dyke told LiveScience. Is he really saying these little lizards were supersonic? Or even aspired to be? I guess that would explain the lizard-shaped splatmarks on the petrified trees.
Also, God bless George W. Bush!
You had a pretty good chance of being moderated as "+5, Funny" before that line.
Evolution really works. Survival of the fittest means that the wing design of present day birds has a definite advantage over early wing designs that died out.
I believe that airplane designers will ultimately emulate the flexible wing design of today's birds.