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Vista Runs Hot on Macbook Pro
PetManimal writes "Ken Mingis, Computerworld's Mac editor, has given Vista a spin on his Macbook Pro in order to review and compare hardware performance with OS X. It's not a rigorous benchmarking, but he does notice a few issues relating to power consumption: 'Since installing Vista, I have found that my MacBook Pro runs hot. No doubt Microsoft hasn't worked on power management issues that might affect Apple hardware, which leaves me to wonder whether I'm slowly cooking the motherboard of my laptop. It's not hot enough to fry an egg on the aluminum case, but my laptop is noticeably warmer than when I use Mac OS X. I've also noticed that battery life is substantially reduced. Once again, energy management for Apple hardware is not likely at the top of Microsoft's list. Once Apple writes updated drivers to work with Vista, I'd expect these issues to be addressed.'"
1. Vista runs hot on MacBook Pro because he's using a beta OS without hardware drivers, using a mechanism for running it that itself is still beta. (And uh, I got news for you: everything "runs hot" on MacBook Pro.
But:
2. Apple doesn't support Vista on MacBook Pro and doesn't make Vista drivers for Apple hardware, but probably will after Vista and Boot Camp are both, you know, actually shipping, supported products.
Seems like the submitter managed to leave out quite a few things from the article, like the fact that the subtitle is:
Apple's top-end laptop runs Vista better than a high-end Sony Vaio
...and pretty much the entire rest of the article, which is downright positive, and managed to only come up with "Vista runs hot on Macbook (sic) Pro", something only mentioned in a couple of sentences on page 3 of the article.
The author makes claims that while using an unsupported, beta OS on hardware for which driver profiles don't exist in conjunction with another beta, unsupported product (Boot Camp), he wonders whether he's "slowly cooking the motherboard", even given the hardware safeties built in, and then goes on to say that he expects these to be fixed when Apple releases drivers for their hardware that actually work with Vista, and Vista is no longer, oh, I don't know, a beta product, and not even out yet?
So, why does the entire submission revolve around the ONE item that likely won't be news, and indeed will be completely moot, by the time Vista ships and Apple actually supports Boot Camp as a product (when Leopard ships)?
MS has hot operating system
Why is this news? A beta OS doesn't run at full capacity on a specific piece of hardware? More likely is that Apple needs to release Vista power management drivers. They probably will do so once Vista is officially released. It's not really worthy of a news posting; maybe as a footnote in a larger review of Vista itself.
Any flavour of windows seems to run hot on a macbook. .. minerals, there's no way you could bear to use one as a true 'laptop' whilst running windows, of any flavour.
From what I've seen - unless you've got your minerals made out of
windows 2000 even always ran hotter than any other OS on my laptops, i remember hearing an explanation a long time ago that they ignore the "wait" cycles or somesuch running the cpu harder than intended.
But for now, I'll let other Mac users be the test dummies for using Vista on a Mac. Both Vista and the needed Mac drivers are too undeveloped for me to want to try Vista on my computer yet.
Hello, McFly (or dumb reporter) but Apple's beta Boot Camp software is not designed to run Vista. You have no reasonable expectation that these issues will be addressed since Apple did not make Boot Camp for Vista. I will say it again -- Boot Camp is beta and it is not designed to run Vista, an operating system that itself is beta.
First, why is this even considered news?
Second, last I checked Vista was not complete. If people even bothered to read the release notes for RC1 you would see Microsoft specifically mentions that the power savings functionality is not yet complete.
Third, as was mentioned multiple times by the reviewer, Apple has not released drivers for Vista yet. Since when is this Microsoft's fault?
Perhaps the guy just need to download the "fan" driver into his "lack of drivers" Vista Beta?
Windows.* runs hot
Windows runs one or two degrees Celsius hotter on my workstation, (AMD XP-M @ 2.3 GHz, 2 GB RAM, 6600GT) than Linux. {Temperature read off GKrellm in Linux vs nVidia system monitor in Windows.}
My guess was that Windows' System Idle Process was using CPU cycles even when nothing else was but I stopped caring since I spend so little time in Windows anyway.
From the article, highlighted in the introduction:
"my laptop is noticeably warmer than when I use Mac OS X. I've also noticed that battery life is substantially reduced."
Come on, that's not even the center point of the article, nor is that anything but subjective, anecdotal observation. Of one. As someone else has said here in the past, even the plural of anecdote is not data. Get a surface temperature thermometer, get some real data. Who knows? Does this guy sense a 3 degree difference as a lot or a 20 degree difference as a lot? Would either of those differences even matter? Did he run Mac OS X under the same conditions as Vista - was the room temperature the same? How about the apps he was running? I could care less about Vista, but, really, folks, how is this newsworthy that some one guy thinks his one laptop runs hotter running Vista the one time he tried it?
And please stop with the Vista posts. We don't need daily updates, thanks though.
Let's see...
- MacBook hardware relies on OS to tell its subsystems they they can sleep, as I imagine most hardware does
- Beta version of Vista doesn't have MacBook-specific drivers
- Therefore, Beta version of Vista runs hot all the time, not just when making full use of all hardware at once
What's missing is a reason for this to be newsworthy, especially on a site like this.
This shouldn't be a surprise. Windows has always been a resource hog on the PC, and it's always the case that when the hardware improves to handle the current version of Windows, Microsoft goes and releases a new version with some extra bells and whistles that have been bolted on and thus require more hardware capability. There are exceptions of course. I remember the first time I upgraded from NT 3.1 to NT 3.51 and the improvement in speed and responsiveness on the same hardware was amazing! Then they went and killed it with NT 4.0 :-/
Vista is a big experiment for Microsoft, and it's pretty obvious that the design goal of Vista was to not let any piece of hardware go to waste, thus it's definately going to drive any laptop or desktop to be hotter.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
I'm running XP in Boot Camp on my Macbook Pro. Battery life is dismal. Heat is outrageous. And if you try to use it like a real laptop, where you close the thing and it suspends, and open it and it resumes, well, you're in for a major disappointment. Half the time the thing goes to sleep, the only way to wake it is by hard rebooting. For some reason, after you shut the thing you hear the USB reconnect sound, and the screen lights up again. While closed. If your commute is very long, you'll arrive home to find a dead laptop battery.
I'm not bitching, I love this thing, and I'm only using XP to run Eve. Unfortunately, that's turned into "most of the time." I'm just suggesting that people remain realistic about Apple's driver support. Their development time is better spent elsewhere.
Apple's top-end laptop runs Vista better than a high-end Sony Vaio
So we can conclude that Apple's second best effort beats out M$'s best effort? Is carefully caged the best way to run Vista? Make me laugh.
The reason that the hot issue is of concern is that it was predicted from problems with power management on other core duo platforms. M$ apologists tried to pin the blame on the chipset and it was postulated that the problem was with Vista and that a Mac would prove the case by not having power problems. This article seems to have proved out that prediction. It was reported here by another user just 11 days ago, and ultimately M$ admitted to it. Again the apologists rushed in with sarcasm, insults and bad humor. The bottom line, as usual, is that M$ is second rate and can't keep up despite their tremendous monopoly advantage.
Sure, M$ might fix the problem one day. Just like Windoze 98 fixed Win95 USB problems but then W2K and XP fixed them again, sort of. I'm not holding my breath for Vista provide reliable power management.
In the mean time, like forever, you are better off with other software. Nothing new here.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Running XP on the MacBook makes a plugged-in USB stick substantially hotter than when running OS X. It's almost too hot to touch. Quite worrying.
Everyone I know who has a windows laptop of any form has always found that the battery drains quickly. Granted I don't know too many people who condition their batteries properly or anything of the sort, but it kind of leads me to believe that Windows doesn't do a whole lot with power management over all.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
How is a Sony Vaio MS's best effort?
Wouldnt that be, like, Sony making crappy laptops?
-Red
Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
So we can conclude that Apple's second best effort beats out M$'s best effort?
So MS bought out Sony and is now making Vaios ? OMG ! In case you didn't realize it yet: Intel Macs are nothing than good looking (and fast) PCs with a funny BIOS (which is not a BIOS but Intels EFI standard), and Bootcamp is not more than a boot loader bundled with a custom installer and a set of hardware drivers for XP. So what you are saying doesn't really make sense at all.
This just shows that Apple is making really nice PCs now.
More likely is that Apple needs to release Vista power management drivers.
This is not an Apple or CoreDuo problem. It was predicted and admitted and now, months later, they still have not fixed it.
None of this matters to me, but it's amusing. As a free software user I'm used to power management that works, faster turn around and don't have a need for much more than 1GHz class performance which is very cheap these days. Watching M$ apologists do the as they do since the days when M$ broke Win3.1 for DrDOS and then blamed DrDOS gets old but it's never dull.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This is the second article in a week which implies that Vista should run on Apple just like it runs on any other Intel box. What is MS' position on Vista on Apple hardware?
"Apple's top-end laptop runs Vista better than a high-end Sony Vaio"
So, the Mac he bought a few months ago performs better than a Sony he bough almost a year ago? How is that not expected? You compare two PC laptops of the same age difference and you're going to get the same result.
It's like saying 'Gee, my brand new Mac is faster than the old PC I'm replacing, Macs are so much better'
Bah and humbug.
Running Vista on a Macbook would be like putting a lawnmower engine in a corvette.
I have a 1.5GHz Pentium M Dell with 128M Radeon 9600 mobility and 1GB RAM. It's an old laptop, but it runs XP (and Linux) well. I've installed Vista on it and my observation is that I get about 30% less battery life with it. On top of that the laptop runs much hotter (it'd barely get warm under normal use in XP) and never stops its fans (it'd rarely even start them in XP). I think that because Aero uses 3d features of the graphics adapter, it starts to consume a heck of a lot more power, which drains the battery. Looks like Microsoft is about to find out why Apple underclocks Radeons in Mac Book Pros.
I think any laptop that overheats because of software is badly designed. Critical functionality, like running the fans etc., should not depend on the operating system. If the OS can influence the behavior of such hardware functionality, there should be smart failsafe mechanisms.
Note that even supported operating systems can get wedged, either because of bugs in the OS, or because of driver problems or other hardware issues; you don't want your laptop to go up in flames when your Ethernet card develops a fault and makes the kernel hang.
...considering the hardware is designed and manufactured by *ASUS*? The Asus W2Jb is the non-Apple version of the 17" Macbook Pro (and is superior in my estimation - even sports a built-in TV tuner).
a nguage=en-us
It seems more likely that, since *ASUS* makes and sells these as Windows laptops, they will be quick to support Vista (and possibly already do).
For the latest drivers for the 17" Macbo^H^H^H^H^H Asus W2Jb, check this site:
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SL
Select the W2000 series and the W2J model.
Do your homework, fool.
Exaclty what I was going to say but with a lot less profanity.
Good work sir.
All slashdotters that actually intend on upgrading ANY computer to Windows Vista please,. . . STAND ON YOUR HEAD!!!!
For the 1000th time, just use Linux.
http://malfy.org/
...Yes? That's... what they do. That's always what they've done. What was your point?
Everything doesn't run hot on every MacBook Pro. I just had my logic board replaced so I have the latest revision and it's a vast improvement. No more whine with my internet, no more toasty battery - just a nice, cool stable, state-of-the-art ferrari-like machine.
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
Don't they still come with a crappy "Designed for Windoze Version of the Decade" sticker on them still?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The HDD in the Compaq d310v at work makes a buzzing sound if I try to move the computer case while Windows XP Pro SP2 is running. Based on this post, perhaps if I fed my hamster more fiber my neighbor would have better BMs.
If the object was to make the Mac laptop run hotter, try plugging it into one high leg and the neutral of a 4 wire 480 VAC 3 phase power supply and it'll run hotter for a short period of time. This WILL void the warranty though.
But, you are a troll. Here, troll, have a cookie:
Stick to the topic and watch the insults.... That's a good boy.
From http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/Advoca cy
So MS bought out Sony and is now making Vaios ?
No, but it's funny that Vista works better on some half hearted "boot" camp than it does on other similar hardware made by M$ Partners and "Designed for Winblows". The obvious conclusion is that Vista is still a train wreck with random performance, if you can get it to run at all.
You would think that a company that gets all the specs and drivers from their vendors would be able to do better than that by the magic of cross licensing. Hell, M$ helped to write the APM and APCI non standard "standards". Apparently, the "traditional" approach to software writing is broken. Vista is six years and counting, and still does not have fundamental issues like power management licked. That's shocking.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I've been working on a script that generates headlines for Slashdot. Here's the metacode Runs Poorly. Runs Better.
Yay, you're back.
The good news about the "slashdot format" is that a synopsis of an article is given as well as a link. Indubitably apparent are the occasional inaccuracies of the synopses. OBJECTIVTY anyone? So if it says vista, dont click on the link/article. FFS when did it become okay to complain about everything and not take the steps to solve your problems yourself.
Oh.. BTW.. Another simple (yet unpopular and anti-community) solution would be NOT to browse slashdot everyday. Some people want to know about ms and windows because its where the money is. Hate the game not the players. OSS isn't in the money. No one is going to pay you to write OSS. They will, however, sell it for you, and more than willingly exclude you from the profit. Bills are not paid with the fairy dust left behind after casting a spell in an mmorpg.
OTOH.. I do agree with your analysis on the "it feels hotter" topic. Its inline with a scientist believing in God. Feelings shouldnt be measured/revealed in a report: Its bad magic.
Vista RC1 runs hot on my Dell Inspiron (WITH proper drivers and WITHOUT aero). I would imagine that enabling aero would easily halve battery life on any laptop out there!
THIS OS IS BAD NEWS! There is not a single tangible feature about it that I have liked. Apart from being DRM'd up the wazoo. They took XP, and just shuffled and "context-ified" all of the menus to make it as inefficient as possible for any power user. It is absolutely dumbed down to the point of being insufferable. I mean there are LITERALLY modal error dialogs warning you that another modal error dialog will pop up! (I'm not kidding.. something like "Continuing this action will require you to grant administrator approval (ok cancel)" followed immediately by "Do you wish to grant administrator approval?").
Even simple system tasks are expected to be performed through task oriented wizards that lend no clue as to what is actually happening behind the schenes. (i.e. I want to enable my network connection with a firewall and default to no file sharing. I can't easily get to that menu. I don't know what the correct answer is to vista's question about where I am most likely to use my connection that will yield a firewalled connection without filesharing. I understand that a conf file isn't for everyone, but this is catering to the 3 year olds!)
One of my degrees is in comp sci. I've taken a GUI design theory classes. It took me > 3 minutes to figure out how to add something to the new start menu (right click, create shortcut isn't there... explore (all) user(s) and I don't have permission to write. I can't drag a shortcut in... hmmm)
My intention is to avoid "upgrading" as long as I possibly can. As it stands, in my opinon, Vista is a DOWNGRADE from xp!
That's like me bitching because Photoshop causes my computer to run hotter. Or that searching for a file makes my hard drive noisy. What "power management" features is he on about? Is there some sort of speed-step that isn't being utilized that otherwise would be in MAC OSX?
This is some sort of deranged attempt at bad mouthing Vista, so far as I can tell. I mean, my laptop gets "noticibly hotter" because of all sorts of shit. Even just playing videos increases the temperature kicking the fans in at marginally higher speeds....
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
I did not RTFA, as the the title was wrong.
Wow! Those "M$ apologists" really are quick with the "sarcasm, insults and bad humor"! It's amazing that they can respond to a post made just 11 days ago with a reply written in February!
Way to sound like a douchebag. Once again, it's MS, not M$. Second of all, he's comparing a Pentium M on the Sony Vaio to the vastly superior Core Duo chip, not to mention that the M is a single core while the Core Duo is, oh, I don't know, a dual core machine. FYI, just to feed your trolling, Vista (Beta 2) managed to run my laptops battery longer than XP did.
Of course the battery life is going to be lower if the processor can't be underclocked and that effect should be expected. But unless Vista is overclocking the hardware, Apple clearly screwed up. They have written their software to cripple the speed of the mac book to prevent heat issues because the design of the mac book cannot handle the heat of the processor. Which means, if you have to run your processor at say 50% of it's true speed to prevent overheating, Apple is mislabeling the processors as 50% faaster than they can safely be run at. If apple users weren't so in love with apple, we could have a class action on our hands.
There isn't a whole lot hardwarewise about the MacBooks that is Apple specific anymore. So if Vista isn't power friendly on one system with Intel cpu+chipset then it's likely not going to be power friendly on any systems with the same cpu and chipset. Apple isn't the only one using these chips in a laptop.
I suspect it's just Vista not being ready yet.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
It is incumbent on an OEM to provide drivers for all the features of the hardware they put in their device. In most cases, their drivers are just repackaged versions of the manufacturer drivers, but sometimes tweaks seen to be made. Either way, that's what you've got an OEM for. I can (and do) build my own system but then it's up to me to make it all work. The point of buying a prebuilt is that they test everything and provide all the drivers necessary.
Well, if Apple is going to choose to officially support Windows, and releasing a product for the express purpose of booting it seems like they are, then one would assume that they are going to provide drivers for it as well. I wouldn't expect them to have Vista support yet as Vista is not release and still most hardware has shaky support, if at all. However if Apple does continue to support Windows then when Vista comes out I would expect them to provide all necessary drivers.
And those phrases and plays-on-words are just amateurish.
-Red
Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
One thing I expect to come out of future Vista - OS X comparisons is a demonstration of the performance delta. I don't think many OS X users yet realize how slow it actually is. I'm no fan of Windows or Microsoft (or for that matter OS X or Apple), but I can't help but notice how slow OS X is every time I've used it.
...that OS X is cooler than windows. (like we really needed THAT proof to reach that conclusion!)
ant
From experience with my Macbook Pro, I can say that the majority of the heat actually seems to come from the graphics chip, not the cpu. Not a scientific study, but when I clock the GPU up to full strength under XP, it gets MIGHTY hot in a hurry (and the fans hit hyper speed.)
It is possible that the added heat this observer is noticing is actually from Vista's graphical "junk."
So the heat is probably less about some sort of power management issue or "Vista beta problem #XXX" but more from the fact that it is making more pretty lines on the screen than before. And the fact that the Macbook Pro is just plain HOT all the time (even as I am typing this, it is outstandingly warm).
Maybe Microsoft just hadn't gotten around to optimizing the idle loop like IBM did for PPC and darwin: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/librar y/pa-unrollav3/
Who said Microsoft had to develop Vista to run on a Mac? This is a stupid new topic.
- John
http://www.jabcreations.com/
Try an apple computer that doesn't suck. Like the Quad Xeon, which hands down smoke mostly any PC I can pit against it.
I can definitely comfirm that constant heat in a laptop fries the hard drive. Keeping it at around 140 for a couple weeks damages the hard drive severely! Mine was a compaq though but they're all the same. The main problem with Vista is running the graphics card and processor more when not really running any programs other than the operating system. With no cool down period between games and video encoding and stuff, it's a time bomb without an extra cooling system that basically makes it a desktop.
now stop reading and go play Dance Dance Revolution!
And I just put a BMW engine in my Honda Civic and my Honda still handles like a Honda with little more horse power.
It's so refreshing to see people take the time and effort to write new troll posts now and then. Bravo, good sir.
"Vista is six years and counting" Um, no it's not. It's 3 years and counting. Way to spread the incorrect information. It makes your opinion so much more credible. If you bothered to pull your anti-MS head out, you'd realize it's been published dozens of times that Vista was, as a project, rebooted 3 years ago after XP SP2. On top of that, if you bothered to try it yourself instead of ranting, you'd realize that battery life is not worse under Vista than XP. In fact, you have lots more control over individual power settings than I've seen on any other operating system.
Didn't OSTG (or was it Linus?) Once say, that you shouldn't disrespect, or degrade other OSes? It's MS, short for Microsoft. And it's Windows, not Winblows. Either grow up, and act like a good citizen, or take your comments were the sun don't shine.
;)
Just my opinion
"Free software" is a matter of liberty, not price.
This just in, Microsoft has bought out Sony, and is now retroactively manufacturing VAIO notebooks. Microsonyft unavailable for comment.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
Very Intense System Temperature Always!
OS X is optimised for Apple hardware. Therein lies the USP. Vista isn't (yet). Big surprise.
"There is nothing nice about Steve Jobs and nothing evil about Bill Gates." - Chuck Peddle
You still can't spell. Please listen to the nice man/woman/person/cat who keeps trying to help you argue intelligently.
[I]t's funny that Vista works better on some half hearted "boot" camp than it does on other similar hardware made by M$ Partners and "Designed for Winblows". The obvious conclusion is that Vista is still a train wreck with random performance, if you can get it to run at all.
"Windows" is software, not hardware. All sorts of fantastic hardware will run it; all sorts of crappy hardware will.
Running Windows on crappy hardware doesn't (necessarily) mean Windows is crap. It means the hardware is crap.
I like the pun ^.^
DATABASE WOW WOW
It's not surprising that Windows Vista's power management "isn't working" -- Apple hasn't certified its hardware with the Windows hardware test suite, which tests, among other things, that the ACPI tables are properly formatted for Windows' use (and yes, CPU pstate management and thermal zone (fan) control is part of ACPI). Additionally, there are no Vista CPU drivers for enhanced speedstep/C1e, so until that happens, you won't see any improvement in power consumption / heat generation.
Shouldn't the title be "Macbook Pro Runs Hot with Vista"? It's not Microsoft's fault that Apple's hardware can't handle it.
General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
Uhm....
Apple hardware == intel based hardware....... seems to me that power management should work out of the Wintel box.
Maybe it needs a vendor supplied processor driver to get full power management. Just like AMD64 processors need a driver to get Cool n' Quiet working.
You're right. Instead, I choose to do my film editing on Avid on a PC, since it's not available for Mac. Guess the Mac isn't good for everything. Oh, don't go and look at the "entry level" Avid software which runs on Mac, but the real high end stuff that FCP etc would break down and cry at, like DS Nitris.
Anyway... I don't know why I bother.
Except, of course, that it's a Dual CPU, Dual Core - there /is/ a difference, especially at that level.
Because otherwise, yeah, shock horror, a computer with multiple $900 CPUs - wow, it beats "most other PCs"... who'd have thought it?
Despite the recent thermal compound issues. There have been significant heat issues with Apple's new kit. When you're in a rush to get your DRM infested machines out the door things are bound to go wrong.
Sudden halting, stained handwrests, battery recalls, hot enough to cook an egg... Hi, I'm a Mac!
What about that range of serial numbers?
Sure you can say that it's all the manufacturer's fault, and Apple only designs the gear... but, like my mom always says 'If you see a piece of shit on the sidewalk, do you pick it up to make sure?'
Don't buy a new Mac, it's DRM infested (read TPM) and they changed the behaviour (aka hid the device) so that it no longer shows up... something is rotten in Denmark.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
Any word on the X-Station 460 yet?
Because the hardware still has a veto on the fan controls
If this is true (rather than your wishful thinking or guess), then it must be documented somewhere in the developer docs. Could you please point us to the documentation?
i like how the "excellent moderation system" got modded "funny"
See Marcel Bresink's utility Temperature Monitor at http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html .
I've been testing a Macbook for a Mac pilot in the place that I work at and I have noticed the machine also running hot with OSX. It's a Core Duo as well. Could it be the chipset of the machine? Possibly the Core 2's won't have this problem.
I think he's right about the underrated/overrated stuff. Those should be subject to meta-moderation as well. Can anyone offer a good reason under and over ratings not be meta modded?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
It is amazing that the author is surprised that another MS OS is running hot. That is how all bloat code works. Poorly written and un-optimized code will always overtax the CPU and its support chips. Why do you think VISTA requires practically a supercomputer to run properly? The new MAC OS runs on many of the older machines and the newer OS coming out soon should also be supported by many of the older machines.
The UNIX based MAC OS has been continually optimized over the 30+ years of development. VISTA is ver 1.0 Microsoft Committee Code that will be 3 releases before it works properly and/or is even slightly optimized.
This whole issue begs the question of why anyone would want to run VISTA on a MAC anyway. The whole idea behind MAC/WIN compatibility was to help those, like myself, to more quickly transition from one OS to the other with applications that had not been ported yet.
Bottom line. Get a MAC and run Crossover long enough to get out of the burning MS building.
It's confirmation of what we all knew: OSX is cool! Waaaay cooler than Vista . . . ;-P
This may or may not be a fix for the random shutdowns, but I've had luck solving the problem by cleaning the processor heat sink. Pulled a chunk of lint out of a few Sony Vaios and eliminated the problem (at least for the time being).
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
I have two AMD Athlon 64 3200+ machines. Under Vista beta 2 and RC1, one runs hotter (the CPU is always at 100%).
On the other machine, Vista does control the Mhz, usually running at 1000Mhz, jumping to 2000Mhz when needed.
Under XP, both machines idle at 50% and rev up to 100% on demand.
It seems to be CPU and/or motherboard dependent. The "good" machine is a socket 939, the other is an older socket 754.
Give away the Vista betas to ordinary end users rather than "selected" IT media professionals (!?) who tries to install it on Apple Macintosh machines and some weirdly configured laptops and whine as it didn't work right.
:)
I really started to think Apple has very strict NDA policies on OS previews exactly because of potential of reviews like that. Imagine a guy posting review(!) saying it surprisingly didn't work on his home built PowerPC machine
I remember to have postponed my Macintosh buying decision because I have read how "horrible" OS X (beta!) is and Apple will never,ever able to deliver it and soon go out of business back in the day.
Later I figured people were happily running OS 9 very happily on their Macs but it was too late, I bought Wintel already.
Giving away OS betas is wrong I think and MS should "invent" that Apple NDA/Policy too.
Are you talking about the M$ thing? Because if you are, fuck you and the horse that rode in on you. Calling Microsoft Micro$oft is just like referring to Compuserve as Compu$erve; Which is to say that both predate both slashdot and the whole fucking web by a wide margin, and people who bitch about people using that snide terminology on slashdot are fucking wankers.
I've been calling Microsoft M$, again, since before slashdot was a twinkle in taco's combination dinner. People have been doing it since Before Linus dreamed up Linux - myself among them. I've been a computer nerd for most of my life, and I was an Amigan, which means I was a wingnut freak. (I got better...)
But I am not going to change my conversational habits because of what some newbie punk thinks they should be, and I don't think the GP is either.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
XP runs hotter than OSX because OSX underclocks the GPU, so why is it a surprise that Vista also runs hotter?
One thing I noticed when I installed Vista on my MAC book is that it now wieghs more, 6.4Lbs (Vista) vs 5.9Lbs (MAC OS)
http://www.leadmagnet.50megs.com
Given apple's record for poor build quality, I wouldn't chance running without the clock throttling. You won't kill the Intel parts, but you will probably kill something that apple designed or built. Many apple users of the macbook and macbook pro machines have been having serious issues with the poor build quality of these machines (eg. http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php, and many others)
All eighteen Apple machines that were bought in my company within the last two years have failed. Around half of these were just outside the warranty period, and nearly all were expensive enough to fix that they justified replacement with cheap but reliable Windows/Linux desktops.
My company no longer buys Apple, and we no longer buy any hardware that does not offer a 3 year warranty as standard. Generally, we have found apple machines to have pretty and durable enclosures, but there is incredible stupidity in the lack of proper ventillation / heat extraction in some apple machines, and an unbelievable arrogance when confronting apple with the design flaws.
Vista still hasn't been officially released. How many programs much less OSes do you know of that are fully optimized while still in Beta?
The story's an interesting observation, but doesn't really say anything about the final OS yet.
I post on slashdot and wait to see if there is anything more important to do.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Way to sound like a douchebag. Once again, it's MS, not M$. Second of all, he's comparing a Pentium M on the Sony Vaio to the vastly superior Core Duo chip, not to mention that the M is a single core while the Core Duo is, oh, I don't know, a dual core machine.
Yeah, call me names. That proves something.
Power management is broken under Vista for cool hardware and probably poor as well, there's no way you can make that look good for M$. They helped write the spec, they get help from all the vendors and in six years of developing Vista, they can't get it right. It would not matter that Core Duo is new if the power management specs were sane. As it is, this problem has been known about for months, and widely noticed and is still unfixed. Sarcasm, name calling and other M$ tricks won't fix the problem.
Now get your ass back to Redmond and ask Bill to spend some of those 6.2 billion Vista marketing bucks on fixing his problems. You've both got time because people are not going to be buying it soon.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Wow...is my screen-name that vague?!
For the record, I'm a cat!
I think you've stumbled onto something important here.
No hardware is perfect, and sure enough if Windows isn't installed on hardware it shows NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!
I linked to the anonymous coward who keeps posting a rather articulate and well thought-out cotrection on twitter's demagoguery.
But, evidently cats are in on it too ^.^
DATABASE WOW WOW
So you're saying we need meta-metamods? But who will mod them?