Microsoft Vista User Interface Guidelines Published

SEMW writes "Microsoft has published the preliminary Official User Interface Guidelines for Windows Vista. Highlights include Top 12 Rules for the Windows Vista User Experience — and the use of screenshots from Windows XP as examples of what not to do. The full guidelines are as yet incomplete, but what is there makes for interesting reading."

Comments

Breaking your own rules

[Allicorn]

So I guess we can take these rules as a fairly good indicator of what interface features the next version of Office will NOT follow. It's been my impression that whatever interface guidelines MS publish, they always seem to very rapidly diverge from them in the own applications.

Re:Breaking your own rules

[fatphil]

It looks like many previous versions of MS's windows software violates their own guidelines too.

E.g. Almost every program written since Windows 3.1 was released was in violation of this:
"Don't accompany warning messages with sound effects. Doing so is jarring and unnecessary."
I bet every future program will be too.

Chord.wav will never die...

FatPhil

Re:Breaking your own rules

[Achromatic1978]

Again, the Mac fanboys are right. MS is once again following Apple's lead!

Re:Breaking your own rules

[tomz16]

replace chord.wav with silence.wav...

-Tom

Re:Breaking your own rules

[kimvette]

Except that "warning" and "error" and other kinds of dialogs have historically offered user-selectible sounds. Are they disabling the Windows notification sounds (aside from the mandatory Microsoft Windows-brand Startup event sound) in Vista? It seems to me that if they are so damned bleeping concerned about "accessibility" (see the anti-ODF FUD here in Taxachusetts) then they should be keeping audible notifications around. Even more than that, it's a matter of convenience to the non-handicapped, so this can affect a majority of users.

By all means, if I have to run Vista, and I have a "warning sound" defined in my sound theme, PLAY THE DAMNED SOUND. If I have a sound tied to an event in my theme, then obviously I WANT a notification, and it is NOT up to you, MICROSOFT, to tell me that I can't have that sound. Maybe I'm running a process in one office and sitting in a nearby office, leaving the sound turned up for the "completed" notification dialog.

A normal yes/no prompt, or pages in a wizard? Sure, make the guideline no sound. However there should be exceptions. Take your own Windows Server or SBS as an example.

The DCPROMO wizard SHOULD play a sound (if the server has sound on board - more and more SERVER boards are including AC97 lately - even Supermicro) when Server or SBS has completed running the wizard. It'd be nice to not have to walk over and check the server every 5 minutes to see if the thing is done. Even though it's not a "warning" or "error" when completed, it'd be nice to get a nice warning or error notification when it's complete, because it's a job that takes a long time to complete (even on a four-way system it takes a while).

The guideline should be: "Think of your users needs first. If your target audience will dislike it or will not be able to work without confusion, you're doing it wrong. If they can figure it out AND it is convenient, you're doing it right."

Lastly: I hate wizards. Give me a multi-tabbed dialog box instead, where if I decide I need or want to change something on the first page, I can select that first tab directly without having to click back->back->back->back->back and then (half the time) have to complete the entire wizard over because the brain-dead developer clears all the tabs when you skip back (I've seen that before too). I especially hate ATI tuner drivers - why should I have to run through a wizard to change a codec setting or to change the audio line the tuner is connected to (a moot issue for me since I've switched to Linux anyhow. . . )?

Re:Breaking your own rules

[poulbailey]

Are they disabling the Windows notification sounds (aside from the mandatory Microsoft Windows-brand Startup event sound) in Vista?

That sound effect isn't mandatory anymore according to a Vista blog post from friday. There's now a checkbox in the usual sound settings window that allows you to mute the sound.

http://blogs.technet.com/windowsvista/archive/2006 /09/22/458320.aspx

Re:Breaking your own rules

[loraksus]

Well, hopefully they will and will use a different save dialog. The new save dialog box is the worst thing to happen in windows gui design in years.

This actually makes my head hurt

Better? No, not really You get to see a whopping 10 icons in the default view (it randomly switches depending on the folder), and more than half of the window is useless.
You can resize it, but you'll have to resize it every time.

Re:Breaking your own rules

[Sir Unimaginative]

For the love of... the first one looks like old Windows 3.1 style! (With a tiny bit of gussying up, of course.)
 
And the second is just hideous.

Funny....

[CUatTHEFINISH]

When I clicked on the "read more" link slashdot told me there was nothing to see here move along. I suppose that website will do a great job onw arning everyone the most common violations of the Microsoft® Windows Vista(TM) User Experience Guidelines. Why do I feel that list should be so much longer? 0_o

Rule 11

[aedan]

More than 10 and it's "Rule 11: Use notifications judiciously" which is a great change. Those things bug the hell out of me.

What about "Everyone is called Bruce."?

Re:Rule 11

[Anonymous Coward]

Rule 12 should be that applications shouldn't play the take focus game (my #1 beef with Windows). But on a plus note I was very happy that they discussed how to use modal windows correctly. If only developers would listen though. For those developers who don't listen I say (not really, it was the movie Heavy Metal): "Hangin's too good for 'em. Burnin's too good for 'em. They should be torn into little bisty pieces and buried alive!"

Re:Rule 11

[commanderfoxtrot]

Especially when lots come up at once.

Case in point: yesterday I must have pressed something while copying a cell in Excel.

Before I knew it (speedy laptop), Excel had changed every row in the sheet (so that's 65K rows) and then realised something was wrong and raised an alert box for each row.

It was quite easy to work out it would be faster to kill Excel via the task manager window and redo the unsaved work, than click "ok" on 65K little windows.

Re:Rule 11

[Fred_A]

And you didn't even take a screenshot for the daily WTF ??

Re:Rule 11

[UnknowingFool]

Use notifications judiciously" which is a great change

But will MS follow their own rules? Hold on a sec . . .

I see that you are posting a reply. Would you like me to open a search on MSN? <Yes><No> Clicks No

Anyway, given the many complaints on Vista's security, it would seem MS isn't following their own rules--

You are posting a remark disparaging Microsoft. Would you like to learn more about the great company Microsoft? <Yes><No> Clicks No

While there maybe good reason to lock down Vista, you would think that MS would make it less annoying--

You maybe posting information which may harm security. Would you like to continue to do so? <Yes><No> Clicks Yes

You have insufficient privileges to post this reply. Please contact the network administrator for privileges.

WTF? %$%#&@!

Re:Rule 11

[andyatkinson]

Try this:
http://www.techiecorner.com/21/how-to-disable-ball oon-notification-in-windows-xp/

This made me laugh.

[radicalnerd]

Be polite, supportive, and encouraging. The user should never feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated.

Re:This made me laugh.

[Bones3D_mac]

The user should never feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated.

You mean Vista is doing away with DRM?!

About damned time!

Re:This made me laugh.

[skiflyer]

I personally got a chuckle out of the repetitive use of judiciously... why thank you Microsoft, I thought it would've been better to use certain functionallity foolishly!

Re:This made me laugh.

[BeeBeard]

It's because Microsoft's been sued so much, words that sound close to "judicial" are creeping into their docs ;)

Re:This made me laugh.

[BrynM]

I personally got a chuckle out of the repetitive use of judiciously... why thank you Microsoft, I thought it would've been better to use certain functionallity foolishly!

Rule 12 1/2 should have been: Use judiciously judiciously.

Re:This made me laugh.

[tdemark]

I don't know if this "design principle" is funny or profound (from "Warning Messages"):

Doing so is counter to the encouraging tone of Windows Vista and makes using your program feel like a hazardous activity.

- Tony

Re:This made me laugh.

[kfg]

The idea that their "Playskool" interface is an attempt to not be condescending is just too condescending to bear.

KFG

Re:This made me laugh.

[PsychoSlashDot]

That's funny and all, but overall there's quite a bit of these guidelines to disagree with...

While not everyone is going to agree with all of my critique, I suspect we're going to be fairly united overall. I'd like to question why the Start Button is now the "circular shape with the four-color windowpane kind of shape in it that was in the bottom left when you got your computer but might have been moved to any of the other three corners". I'd like to know why in MMC windows and Explorer windows the plus-sign/minus-sign symbols to expand/collapse nodes is now the "hollow arrow pointing to the right" and the "solid arrow pointing fourty-five degrees downwards from the right". I'd like to know why in a world where Citrix and Terminal Services are increasingly predominantly used, we get things like swirling colour effects moving through progress bars to tell you the processor hasn't halted, just to slow down the interface. These are my initial impressions of Vista, from the perspective of an IT professional who has hundreds of users he needs to train, support, and troubleshoot.

Don't provide unnecessary details. A well-labeled progress bar provides sufficient information, so provide additional progress information only if users can do something with it.
And there, in a nutshell is MS' philosophy. Assume things are going to go right. I call bullshit. If you provide scads of additional information, such as what file is being copied, or how many [giga/mega/kilo]bytes remain, or what registry key is being written, or what dll is being registered, normal users will ignore it. Those who know things will be able to help when things go wrong.

Present choices and settings in terms of user goals, not technology.
I understand the goal of making users feel squishy and loved, but this is a support headache in the making. Now instead of helpdesk/IT people being able to train that users should look for "duplexing" and turn it on, they have to look for whatever variant of "print on both sides of the paper" or "flip paper and print on other side" each manufacturer chooses to use for their drivers/programs. Technology-based description of options tend to be predictable because a precise, definitive word or phrase is applied to the option.

While the minimum Windows Vista screen resolution remains at 800 x 600 pixels, resizable window layouts should be optimized for 1024 x 768 pixels.
And there you have it. Shouldn't this read "window layouts should always be scalable down to a minimum of 800x600 and should be resizable by users"? Sure, an OK/Cancel box could arguably not be resizable... but then too it's harmless if it is.

Never use confirmations as a form of user education.
Are you sure you really want to reformat your hard drive? You should pick 'no' unless you are absolutely certain that you want to erase all of your data on [drive letter]. Picking 'yes' will delete all information without hope of recovery. Proceed with extreme caution.

Make sure the properties are necessary. Don't clutter your pages with unnecessary properties just to avoid making hard design decisions.
Because hard design decisions don't generally correspond to the simple fact that some people prefer Coke and some Pepsi. Right. Give the user options. Any time you're not sure which design or option is better, let them make the choice. Except the Taskbar which should always be along the bottom, period. Whoever let users move the singlemost fundamental Windows95+ UI element should be shot.

Don't accompany error messages with sound effects. Doing so is jarring and unnecessary.
Thanks. I'll keep the person who made this choice in mind next time I've got a massive file copy going and I elect to read a book or something and it stops 10% in because the destination runs out of room, or I lack perms to a source file or something and it's just sitting there waiting for me to click 'ignore' or something. If I want it to b

Re:This made me laugh.

[shaneh0]

If nothing else, your post was well written and certainly given some thought.

One thing that jumps out at me is your criticism of Microsoft for not following their own Guidelines. However, I don't think you've ever seen new versions of MSFT software running on Vista. There's no reason to think that this behavior, such as shortcut naming, etc, hasn't been brought inline with these reccomendations.

Also, it's important to remember that these guidelines came from the OS group. They are no more forced on the Office group then they are on ISVs.

I'm also left feeling like if some of these guidelines were reversed, you'd still disagree with them. If they said "All user warning should include a sound effect" or "Always open ReadMe files for every install" I'm sure you'd have some (valid) criticism of that as well.

One final thing: Citrix/TermServ is very common. You're right about that. But if someone is intalling Citrix on a VISTA machine, they deserve the latency they'll get. As for in-built TermServices, there's no reason to believe that many of these active UI elements aren't "reduced" when using Terminal Services. This has long been a part T.S., reducing screen colors, resolutions, etc.

Re:This made me laugh.

[ChronosWS]

For brevity I am only quoting the rules you stated, not your responses to them.

Don't provide unnecessary details. A well-labeled progress bar provides sufficient information, so provide additional progress information only if users can do something with it.

Error log files should be provided for these cases. The single line of rapidly flashing text will either be ignored by most users or be cause for alarm (because a lot of very important/cryptic stuff is happening rapidly.) IT pros are already used to log files. I have, in fact, noticed more and more applications are providing logs of what occurred during lengthy operations and these have the capacity to provide much more useful information than a status bar. MS is right on this one, what they forgot to say was where such additional progress information should go.

Present choices and settings in terms of user goals, not technology.

I agree that from a helpdesk perspective, this is going to cause issues, but from a 'can the user get themselves through the first hour without reaching for a book of computer terminology' perspective it's probably more of a win. I am not sure which choice is better - it feels to me like either way you go you get problems. But given the general design theme MS is trying to achieve (not alienating the user with cryptic text) this rule is at least consistent.

While the minimum Windows Vista screen resolution remains at 800 x 600 pixels, resizable window layouts should be optimized for 1024 x 768 pixels.

"Optimized for" is not equal to "design only for." This rule is treated more completely in the detailed rules for Vista UI design. 800x600 is really, REALLY low resolution these days - you'd be hard pressed to find a Vista-capable computer that couldn't display 1280x1024 and be sold with a monitor to match. I suspect this particular element was influenced in part by the possibility that Media Center PCs would be hooked up to TVs or some other such case. I'd imagine the chances of a general application actually being constrained to this requirement is very small.

Don't accompany error messages with sound effects. Doing so is jarring and unnecessary.

This should probably read "Only use sound effects for critical error messages, not for less important notifications and warnings which do not require immediate user response." On the other hand, MS may have decided that if the user really cared about the operation, they'd be sitting at the machine actively tending the UI, and making undesired sounds would interrupt their other activities. I personally find the flashing window notification method in the task bar to be suitable when I am at the machine, even if I am reading a book. Again, if the immediate completion of the operation is important to me, I'll watch it. In the corporate IT environment perhaps this requirement is different.

Don't use the warning icon for routine questions. Doing so is counter to the encouraging tone of Windows Vista and makes using your program feel like a hazardous activity. Assume users understand the consequences of cancelling a task before it is finished.

MS is clearly trying to make computers "feel" less opaque than before, even if to the tech-oriented person that feel actually obscures the underlying operations. There is also an underlying meaning in this rule that the application developer should design their software such that cancelled operations have user-predictable outcomes. For instance, cancelling an install should NOT leave the application half-installed - it should revert any changes it has made. Cancelling the copying of a file shouldn't leave half of a file copied. On the other hand, users are expected to know that cancelling a format will not revert their drive to the previous state - this is why such irreversib

Re:This made me laugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever let users move the singlemost fundamental Windows95+ UI element should be shot.

I happen to like having my task bar at the side. I can have 20+ related windows open and be able to see them all. I don't agree that tabbed interfaces are the best thing since sliced bread in a majority of uses. I prefer to have everything visible for selection in a column, rather than several selections away.

Re:This made me laugh.

[loraksus]

And there, in a nutshell is MS' philosophy. Assume things are going to go right. I call bullshit. If you provide scads of additional information, such as what file is being copied, or how many [giga/mega/kilo]bytes remain, or what registry key is being written, or what dll is being registered, normal users will ignore it. Those who know things will be able to help when things go wrong.

The Vista copy process box does show the speed, but it also it lies to you. When I first installed, I was moving 20 gigs of small files, it kept "estimating" the time until I cancelled it. By then about 3 gigs had already been moved.
Awesome.

Re:This made me laugh.

[VGPowerlord]

One thing that jumps out at me is your criticism of Microsoft for not following their own Guidelines. However, I don't think you've ever seen new versions of MSFT software running on Vista. There's no reason to think that this behavior, such as shortcut naming, etc, hasn't been brought inline with these reccomendations.

Shortcuts, from what I've seen, have been rebranded.

For instance, the Windows name is now all over Windows applets, even the ones that used to be known with unqualified names, such as Calculator.

Re:This made me laugh.

[Jaseoldboss]

I see they're still breaking the MSDN article for Firefox users, how childish. Perhaps it should say "The user should never feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated unless they are using non-Microsoft software"

Re:This made me laugh.

[rapidweather]

While we are on a funny note, get a load of this:

Visited Office Depot last week, and near the checkout counter I saw a "Windows Vista for Dummies" book.

Maybe I was dreaming, but I swear it is true.

Look, there is no OS!

Not preinstalled on computers!

I know what I am talking about, I remember Windows 3.1 preinstalled on computers at Office Depot! At least 20 boxen up and running, with excited patrons playing with Paint, and Solitare, and wondering why Notepad did not have more "word processor" features. I did it, I spray painted with Paint, and never figured out how to print text in Paint.

(yes, I did later, my logo.16 for my knoppix remaster was made with Paint.)

Wait, I'm not through! "Dummies" books are for people that have already wrestled with the technical problem, and now have a few bucks to spend at the bookstore, and these "Dummies" books are just the ticket!

No one needs a "Dummies" book ahead of time! Especially one about an OS that they cannot get their hands on to work the examples in the book, and hence gain an understanding the the thing, in that special way that Dummies books do so well.

I clicked on the Amazon link above, and look, they have 49 new and _used_ copies for sale beginning at $5.34.

Apparently some of the purchasers of the book found out the hard way that:

1. There is no OS
2. It's not preinstalled on computers.

(Rapidweather is seen looking through his wallet, pockets and change bowl:)

(lemme see, do I have a spare $5.34 here somewhere?)

--Rapidweather

Re:This made me laugh.

[myowntrueself]

For instance, the Windows name is now all over Windows applets, even the ones that used to be known with unqualified names, such as Calculator.

Not so different from kde or gnome... and frankly I get sick of the both of them especially when looking through lists of software packages. Endless pages of all those k-this and g-that.

Its not as if everything that starts with a 'k' is a kde application or everything that starts with a 'g' is a gnome application.

If all kde applications started with an actual fecking 'kde' (similarly for gnome) it wouldn't be too bad.

Mand{rake,riva} too with all of its Drak-this and Drak-that.

Microsoft are just picking up the same (bad) habit except they are actually spelling it out.

Imagine if they hadn't and they were all w-something instead of windows-something? wcalculator? wdefender? wmail? Not so different from kmail, kontact to give just a couple of kde examples.

Re:This made me laugh.

[DragonWriter]

Error log files should be provided for these cases. The single line of rapidly flashing text will either be ignored by most users or be cause for alarm (because a lot of very important/cryptic stuff is happening rapidly.) IT pros are already used to log files.

In the case of a failure (which often stalls the progress display, both text and bar), the text displayed when the failure occurs is much easier for a user to note and refer to if they are doing self-help by accessing a knowledgebase than the content of a log file. This can prevent "IT pros" from having to get directly involved in fixing problems except when it is a genuinely newly identified problem.

So, I agree with MSFT that additional information shouldn't be provided unless there is a reasonable scenario in which it would be useful, but for almost every case where you'd be tempted to put, say, a text display of the current operation with a progress bar in a dialog box, there is, in fact, a resonable scenario in which it might be useful.

I have, in fact, noticed more and more applications are providing logs of what occurred during lengthy operations and these have the capacity to provide much more useful information than a status bar.

Having a log file doesn't preclude having a status dialog that conveys useful information, and vice versa. They aren't exclusive choices.

I agree that from a helpdesk perspective, this is going to cause issues, but from a 'can the user get themselves through the first hour without reaching for a book of computer terminology' perspective it's probably more of a win.

Judicious use of context-sensitive help can improve this: there is no single most effective, short way to communicate the same idea to every user. Imprecise "common language" may be the best way to address novices, domain-specific clear technical terms may be the best way to address application domain experts, and implementation-technology based technical terms may be the best way to address technical experts, for instance. You can make a reasonable default choice among these and provide additional explanatory text (say, with the "What's this?" feature Microsoft used to use with everything, but seems to have abandoned a while back.) In general, this rule (and other developments in Microsoft practices) seem to suggest that Microsoft's idea of a well-designed application is one that is extremely narrowly focussed in its target audience. Given Microsoft's own trend of having the same essential product packaged a dozen different ways for different target markets, that's not hard to understand, but I don't think its a good basis for UI guidelines for anyone not interested in following that business model.

Also, the "label the shortcut using the program name" rule I find to be a very bad rule, particularly when a program is designed so that multiple versions can peacefully coexist (which, sure, requires breaking, somewhat, the idiom of accessing programs through their associated files, given the methods Windows uses to identify the associated program for a file.) Further, it instantly makes people aware when third-party content requires a particular version whether they have the requirements.

Re:This made me laugh.

[ArtStone]

There is an even more important reason to not use sound effects for errors - some people cannot hear them.

If the program (or O/S) has a serious problem and needs to get the attention of the user and help them understand the critical nature of problem, playing sound is not going to get the attention of a person with hearing loss (or if the sound is off, or is busy playing music, etc...) If the user has enabled an accessibility alternative (like SoundSentry in XP - flashing the screen, active window, ect....), all they know is there was a sound they didn't hear - it doesn't do anything to communicate the seriousness or consequences of the current situation.

One also might think this is a "lessons learned" post mortem about Clippy :)

However, I think it is also a mistake to project operating system U/I standards to application programs. Just because Finite State Machines are useful for some kernel functions does not mean every application program is best designed as a state machine.

Re:This made me laugh.

[jeremyds]

Present choices and settings in terms of user goals, not technology.
I understand the goal of making users feel squishy and loved, but this is a support headache in the making. Now instead of helpdesk/IT people being able to train that users should look for "duplexing" and turn it on, they have to look for whatever variant of "print on both sides of the paper" or "flip paper and print on other side" each manufacturer chooses to use for their drivers/programs. Technology-based description of options tend to be predictable because a precise, definitive word or phrase is applied to the option.

The whole point of presenting choices in terms of user goals is to prevent the call to helpdesk/IT in the first place. If the user needs to "Print on both sides of the paper", they'll check the option that does just that. No need to call help desk to find out that they needed to have "duplexing" turned on.

Re:This made me laugh.

[RAMMS EIN]

Dear Valued Customer,

Please sit back and take a deep breath, as the following message may be mildly shocking. This is the Pink Screen of Moving On(TM), the New and Improved BSOD(R). You are seeing this screen, because a minor glitch in Windows(R) Vista(TM) has caused the system to take a pause. Your work has not been saved, but there's no need to worry: you will have a chance to do it again after the system resumes operation.

We will not bore you with the technical details of what exactly went wrong. The friendly staff at Microsoft(R) will be able to analyze the problem from the last status report that has been transmitted by the system. When you are ready, you can restart the system by clicking any of the 5 stylish buttons at the bottom of this message to restart the computer and resume operation. If that doesn't work, please use the reset button on your computer. In case you need assistance, you will be pleased to know that Microsoft(R) Certified Technical Support Engineers are willing to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Simply call 800 6489487 (toll free, charges may appear on your credit card statement) to reach them.

Please note that this situation has nothing to do with you personally. You have done nothing to provoke this. In fact, we know you've been giving it all you've got to keep the system free of malicious software. Software problems happen to the best of us. In recognition of your efforts, and as a token of our esteem for our most Valued Customers, it is our pleasure to present you with the Latest and Greatest(patent pending) in computer technology: the next Service Pack! Using this service pack, available starting today, your computer will be more stable and user-friendly than ever. In fact, it even contains a utility to set custom colors for this screen! Best of all, the Service Pack will be installed automatically next time you start your computer. This will slow the startup process somewhat. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

We hope this information has been helpful to you. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact our friendly technical support staff at 800 6489487.

Sincerely,

The Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Vista(TM) Pink Screen of Moving On(TM) Team.

(Patent pending USPTO review. Windows Vista 1.0 will be released as soon as the patent is approved.)

Re:This made me laugh.

[RAMMS EIN]

How about this one:

``Use icons and graphics consistent with the Windows Vista style and quality''

Re:This made me laugh.

[TangoCharlie]

...or made to feel like a criminal?

The Rules:

[iluvcapra]

(emphasized elaborations mine)

1. Use the Aero Theme and System Font (Segoe UI)
2. Use common controls and common dialogs
3. Use the standard window frame, use glass (transparency) judiciously
4. Use icons and graphics consistent with the Windows Vista style and quality
5. Use task dialogs for new or frequently used dialog boxes and error messages
6. Use Aero Wizards
7. Use Explorer-hosted, navigation-based user interfaces, provide a Back button
8. Use the standard Windows Search (have a little iTunes style search box in your window's corner when appropriate)
9. Use the Windows Vista tone in all UI text (use a professional writing style in you informative text)
10. Clean up the user interface
11. Use notifications judiciously
12. Reserve development time for "fit and finish"!

Re:The Rules:

[Anonymous Coward]

The Vista UI Code... it's not rules, they're more like guidelines...

Re:The Rules:

[iluvcapra]

My thoughts:

Use the Aero Theme and System Font (Segoe UI)

Good, but obvious.

Use common controls and common dialogs

ibid

Use the standard window frame, use glass (transparency) judiciously

Good good. If MS keeps making such a big deal about transparent UI tho, silly developers are gonna use it everywhere.

Use icons and graphics consistent with the Windows Vista style and quality

Good. If you follow this suggestion closely enough, maybe we can convince the users at home that your application comes from Microsoft, too.

Use task dialogs for new or frequently used dialog boxes and error messages

Good.

Use Aero Wizards

If you're replacing a 97 Wizard, you should use an Aero wizard. If you're writing a new app, please do not use a wizard. They're obnoxious, and send the message: "We didn't know how to organize your options in any sort of logical way, so here's a powerpoint that lets you fill in the blanks, masquearding as a UI."

Use Explorer-hosted, navigation-based user interfaces, provide a Back button

In short: Consider making programs that aren't web browsers behave like web browsers, since people use those alot. This is interesting, but at some point you have to explain the difference between the "Back" button and the "Undo" button, and you might just end up making your program into a wizard

Use the standard Windows Search (have a little iTunes style search box in your window's corner when appropriate)

A total dig on my part, and I apologize, but that's basically what they're saying. Apple makes the same recommendation, and give a very slick API for making it work. So good suggestion.

Use the Windows Vista tone in all UI text (use a professional writing style in you informative text)

From Microsofts mouth to ghod's ears.

Clean up the user interface

On their page they list all kinds of things you can do to make your program more ergonomic, but they put it at the end of the list, and phrase it in such a way as to suggest that it should be something you do at the end of development, as opposed to at the beginning, when you're designing your windows on a whiteboard. "Organize your command (sic) into a simple, predictable, and easy to find presentation" is something you do before you start writing code- it is not something you do while "cleaning up".

Use notifications judiciously

Or not at all. The list makes no suggestion about keeping your damn icons out of the systray.

Reserve development time for "fit and finish"!

Fit and Finish has quickly become my least favorite phrase. Sorry, just snarky, I agree with this point. But I would say "Hire a designer" as opposed to "reserve development time", mainly because it will allow collaboration with someone who always has their eyes on the UI and can give the developers continual feedback on how their code is totally rocking for the user ... experience, or totally deviating from reality.

Re:The Rules:

[Nic-o-demus]

Or here you can read some guidelines that are actually insightful (or 'really for nerds', depending on how you look at it):
hcibib

Re:The Rules:

[adpsimpson]

Use icons and graphics consistent with the Windows Vista style and quality

From the article:

Use .PNG compression for large icons to keep the .exe size under control.

Did hell just freeze over? Is Windows Media Player Vista going to recommend .OGG for media files?

Re:The Rules:

[Haeleth]

Use the Aero Theme and System Font (Segoe UI)

Good, but obvious.

Use common controls and common dialogs

ibid,

If these are so obvious, why do so many Windows XP products completely ignore them?

You know... Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio...

Re:The Rules:

[Anonymous Coward]

Use common controls and common dialogs

ibid

You mean "ditto". "Ibid." = "in the same place".

Re:The Rules:

[grammar fascist]

Office and Visual Studio are where Microsoft test-drives its interfaces.

Re:The Rules:

[dp_wiz]

That's just first of EEE

Re:The Rules:

[mabinogi]

Yes we know that, but that doesn't make it right.
It still creates the situation where the most significant application from Microsoft is the one that least follows their own guidelines.

Re:The Rules:

[kestasjk]

If you're replacing a 97 Wizard, you should use an Aero wizard. If you're writing a new app, please do not use a wizard. They're obnoxious, and send the message: "We didn't know how to organize your options in any sort of logical way, so here's a powerpoint that lets you fill in the blanks, masquearding as a UI."

Wizards are like many UI constructs; they are often abused but they can be very useful. Access data import Wizards, installation Wizards, Visual Studio database creation Wizards, etc.
Whenever you need the user to enter a series of logically grouped options before you can begin to do what the user wants a Wizard is the way to go. It's either going to be a Wizard, or a large unwieldy dialog box.


I think Microsoft's suggestions here are all good, but of course if you're the sort of developer that has to read them you're probably the sort of developer which doesn't care about the UI and won't implement them anyway. Which is a shame, because the UI can go a long way to make your program better.

Re:The Rules:

[AaronLawrence]

Yes indeed. These guidelines are sensible for the most part (although a little slanted towards the Vista prettiness). Now Microsoft just needs to get their 100 other products to follow them. It doesn't set a very impressive example when every Microsoft team thinks they are special and know better than their core UI guys.

Certainly gives the impression that Microsoft is heavily split into separate teams these days, each of whom thinks themselves much better than the rest.

Re:The Rules:

[waveclaw]

Wizards are like many UI constructs; they are often abused but they can be very useful. Access data import Wizards, installation Wizards, Visual Studio database creation Wizards, etc.

I couldn't help but notive Rule 6: Aero Wizards. The screenshot of an Aero Wizard resembles the GNOME wizards from Anjuta[1]. They have Similar title bar pacement, similar boarder spacing for elements, etc. But then, both Aero and GNOME inherit a lot from the layout expected of a 'Wizard.'[2] I guess Wizards, like most desktop metaphors used to enforce a particular workflow, experience convergant evolution.[3]

Microsoft recommending compressible PNG's for icons embedded in .EXEs? That's a nice touch, though, considering IE's[4] initial lack of PNG support back in the burn-all-gifs days. Hopefully that will help with icon extrctors when I install Windows software with Wine.

Icons
This content hasn't been written yet. Please check back later for updated guidelines.

Guidelines feedback
© 2005 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use

Hmm...maybe published is a strong word.

__________

1. The GNOME IDE, when working with Glade to write GUIs for Linux, etc.
   
2. Old Visual Basic 5 era. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
   
3. Which may be another way of saying UI designers are stealing each others work and not thinking outside the box.
   
4. Webbrowser, filemanager and kitchen sink. It's not just a browser, it's a critcal OS part with 1,000s of exploits and rising.
   

Re:The Rules:

[nametaken]

I think you're probably right in many of your observations, but one thing is bothering me about this entire thread.

People are too fast to complain about, "this UI element sucks because of X" or "this guideline is bogus because of Y" and "MS doesn't know what they're talking about", when they should be quietly taking notes.

Lets be honest, the biggest complaints about alternative operating systems and applications have been ease of use. I think people ought to consider taking notes from these people who have managed to be very successful.

Re:The Rules:

[angulion]

About wizards.. the one wizard I would say I hate absolutely the most in WinXP got to be "Create a new connection", when you make a new network connection.. the first "page" has 4 totally vague descriptions that you have to guess, instead of just picking from a list of ethernet, ppp, wireless or something else that acctually makes sense. I don't like when they put their asumptions over my reasoning.

Re:The Rules:

[iluvcapra]

thanks for the link

Re:The Rules:

[iluvcapra]

Sorry responded to the wrong response. Very drunk, many apologies :P

Re:The Rules:

[x-caiver]

Reserve development time for "fit and finish"!
Fit and Finish has quickly become my least favorite phrase. Sorry, just snarky, I agree with this point. But I would say "Hire a designer" as opposed to "reserve development time", mainly because it will allow collaboration with someone who always has their eyes on the UI and can give the developers continual feedback on how their code is totally rocking for the user ... experience, or totally deviating from reality.

You are misinterpreting 'fit and finish' if yu think "hire a designer" is more important then "reserve development time". Those two events are complimentary, though they happen at completely different times in the project.
Hire your designer early on in the dev cycle to design your user interface, and bring them back after a major preview release (maybe you got a lot of feedback from a beta, or maybe some unforeseen issue exists with the original design). If you have a program with anything more then a basic UI, skipping this step could be a disaster. Skipping the other step would not be a disaster, but is one of the things that separate 'professional' apps from the rest.

Now, you also must still reserve dev time at the end of the project for the 'fit and finish' issues. Just because your UI was designed beautifully, doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some goofy little issues that pop up. Maybe you antialiased a graphic against the wrong background color so now you have some weird colored pixels, maybe you messed up an alpha channel so one of your icons isn't quite right. Maybe some string changed to correct a typo and now the period at the end of the sentence is partially clipped. Maybe a dev misaligned one button by a few pixels, or allowed some UI elements to be closer to the edge of the window on one tab then on the other. Maybe there is one string describing a property 5 dialogs deep where few ever go that had its text italicized on accident. A looping 'please wait' animation that that only appears under extreme situations that has an odd stutter due to a misaligned frame. There are tons more but I think you get the point.

Some of those could be caught early on in testing, but it is a well proven fact that when someone looks at something day in day out, eventually they'll get used to what they see and won't realize that there is a trivial cosmetic defect in some minor area of the program.

Wow...

[ResidntGeek]

That's a really bitching Notepad icon. They've clearly been hard at work.

Re:Wow...

[nacturation]

That's a really bitching Notepad icon.

Which means it'll get cloned and used for KDE Knotepad in 3... 2... 1...

Motivation

[Lord Aurora]

FTFA:

Reconsider using tree view controls. Trees are intended to organize data and make it easy to find, yet it's difficult to make data within a tree easily discoverable. Having hierarchically arranged data doesn't mean that you must use a tree view. Very often a list view is the better, simpler choice.

They really did this because of the copyright issues concerning tree views...good old Microsoft. Always watching their ass. (^_~)

Re:Motivation

[Spad]

Ah no, you see that patent only applies to portable music players. Implementing a hierarchical data navigation method on a *computer* is completely different and would clearly warrant its own patent. Remember, years of prior art only count if you're working in exactly the same medium.

Re:Motivation

[Lord Aurora]

Psst...you took me too seriously. (^_^)

Guideline #1...

[TheDarkener]

"Keep the user guessing."

user Rule #1

[Quiet_Desperation]

Do not install Vista. :)

Re:user Rule #1

[DescentToCocytus]

You are totally right, Windows XP is a fully capable OS and has been rock solid for all competent users since SP1. Why waste money and system resources on a pretty UI? XP will continue to be a viable option for at least three more years. Good point!

/knows that was not the point

Re:user Rule #1

[RAMMS EIN]

Is that like saying "don't click here"?

Lots of pointless rules...

[Bones3D_mac]

It seems these "guidelines" focus more on drawing attention to the user's choice of OS, rather than actually doing anything to productively assist the user in their work without becoming an annoyance in the process. Granted, a couple of these rules are borrowed from the original Apple Human Interface Guidelines, but the majority of them actually contradict the ideals Apple tried to enforce back in the early days of the Macintosh. (That's not to claim Apple has been any better about this in Mac OS X, which changes its look in every other major update.)

If you thought Clippy was bad before, just wait until he *becomes* the OS that is Windows Vista.

Re:Lots of pointless rules...

[dillee1]

--

8==o Boner o==8

Re:Lots of pointless rules...

[Gazzonyx]

Don't give M$ any ideas about 'clippy'! I'm going to use their guidelines to make a semi-translucent shotgun application that blows that friggin' paperclick back to M$ Bob where he rightfully belongs. Along with that useless search dog. Of course, this app will have a search bar in the top right corner conviently placed right next to the "X" for closing the app.

I wonder what their definition of 'user' is

[TheCouchPotatoFamine]

Be polite, supportive, and encouraging. The user should never feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated.

Well how about DRM then? I don't want to feel blamed for copyi*%#&)@^HS3m..3Fhaffgjdfg THIS IS MASTER CONTROL. You are not a User here Kevin Flynn, now start using Vista, or would you perhaps like it if i started throttling your processes...

Restart now?

[DuranDuran]

> examples of what not to do

Updates complete. Restart now?
What about now?
Now?
Now?
Now?
Just wanted to know if I should restart now?
What about now?
Are you ready to restart?
Shall I restart now?
Should I not restart later?
I think I should restart now.
Wouldn't it be good if I restarted now?
Who's up for a restart??

Re:Restart now?

[PygmySurfer]

They actually added something semi-useful to that dialog - now, you can select when it updates you again, up to 4 hours later. It also doesn't seem to eventually force you to reboot like the XP one.

Re:Restart now?

[The MAZZTer]

Mine just did, I extended it over 8 hours now and this time it said it would restart in 5 minutes if I didn't answer it quickly.

Re:Restart now?

[uncommonlygood]

> examples of what not to do

Updates complete. Restart now?
What about now?
Now?
Now?

Imagine if MS designed a talkie toaster...

Re:Restart now?

[bangenge]

Imagine if MS designed a talkie toaster...

Imagine if they used clippy on that...

Re:Restart now?

[Tim C]

An even better example of what not to do is to install critical updates that require a reboot, then never reboot.

Whatever you're working on can be saved - sure, getting back to where you were after the reboot may be a pain, but I'm betting that recovering a rooted system because you couldn't be bothered to restart it would be even more of a pain.

Re:Restart now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh ... Donkey is the new Clippy.

Re:Restart now?

[Prof.Phreak]

Updates complete. Restart now?

Oh, and just like WinZip shareware, switch the location of buttons... so users click on the wrong thing more often :-)

Re:Restart now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Up to 4 hours later? I'm glad I don't run a server that needs to be up 24/7

Re:Restart now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Vista on a server? I'm glad you don't work on my team of sysadmins.

Re:Restart now?

[loraksus]

Don't forget "if you don't click no in the next 300 seconds, I'm going to restart anyways"

Re:Restart now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 2003 Server does this as well, so I don't see why Vista Ultra Premium Server Edition(tm) wouldn't do the same.

Re:Restart now?

[GeffDE]

But with that (ludicrous) background update feature? I was in a lecture where the professor was using a computer for a presentation. In the middle of this presentation, the Windows Update dialog popped up saying that updates had *just* been installed and commanding a restart. Of course, the professor could not restart then, so he clicked cancel. He finished the interactive part of the lecture, but kept a slide of information open for reference while he did some board work. While busy at the board, the "I'm rebooting in 5 minutes. Try to stop me" dialog window popped up. He had to be interrupted by a student in order to save from an inconvenient restart.

So what that proves is you cannot make a generalization about this. There are times when users should be able to tell windows "STFU already. Listen, I didn't ask you to update, and I'm not able to restart to bugger off."

Re:Restart now?

[DuranDuran]

> I'm betting that recovering a rooted system because you couldn't be bothered to restart it would be even more of a pain.

That's great, but you don't get to make that bet, and neither does Microsoft. I do, because it's my system.

Just use the source

[NotAgent86]

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExper ience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter _1_section_1.html

Re:Just use the source

[Bones3D_mac]

Sadly, this version of the notorious H.I.G. has been perverted to fit Mac OS X. Done correctly, Mac OS X should have been able to fit within most of the constraints set by the original H.I.G.

Re:Just use the source

[jcr]

Sadly, this version of the notorious H.I.G. has been perverted to fit Mac OS X.

Let me guess: you're one of the resource-fork die-hards, right?

-jcr

Re:Just use the source

[Bones3D_mac]

ResEdit... R.I.P., my dear friend.

Re:Just use the source

[jcr]

Cheer up, dude. You can probably find a loaded Mac IIci on E Bay for a hundred bucks!

-jcr

Re:Just use the source

[Bones3D_mac]

Too easy... A Mac IIfx might prove more fun, due to the weird memory type it used.

Of course, my favorite setup has to be the Quadra 840av.

Re:Just use the source

[BandwidthHog]

Nah, IIfx all the way. I don’t care if it was “only” a 68030; the damn thing pulled like a large diesel.

To do it right...

[jcr]

Step One: write an app for the Mac.
Step Two: get your UI reviewed by Apple's user interface evangelist, John Geleynse.
Step Three: make all the changes recommended by Apple.
Step Four: write a windows app that comes as close as you can get to your Mac version.

Or, you can do what the people who wrote Visio or that guy who ripped off Delicious Library did, and just laboriously copy an existing app knowing that you'll never make it quite the same on Windows.

-jcr

Re:To do it right...

[Anonymous Coward]

Step One: write an app for the Mac.
Step Two: get your UI reviewed by Apple's user interface evangelist, John Geleynse.
Step Three: make all the changes recommended by Apple.
Step Four: write a windows app that comes as close as you can get to your Mac version.

This will result in a very poor Windows application that completely fails to have the look-and-feel that Windows users expect.

Mind you, as you're clearly trolling, I don't know what I'm doing gracing your comment with the dignity of a reply.

Re:To do it right...

[zmotula]

There are too many differences between OS X and Windows for this to work. OS X applications use different menu layout, keyboard shortcuts, follow different icon design guidelines, use different tools (like sheets and drawers), use different install procedure and so on. You could match these things to their Windows counterparts, but that would be about as laborous as getting the application right without copying anything. The only way to design a good application is to read the local design guidelines carefully, try to fit in the environment as seamlessly as possible and be kind to the user. Copying is not an option -- look at all the Linux GUI environments that try to emulate OS X or even Windows without being at least half as usable as the original.

Re:To do it right...

[Tim C]

What you'll end up with then is something that looks as out of place as iTunes or Quicktime.

MS's guidelines have two purposes - to help you create a usable interface is only one of them. The other is to create one that blends in with the overall look and feel of Vista, and so helps to enhance the entire system experience.

Following Apple's guidelines might satisfy the first of those, but it'll completely stuff up the second.

Re:To do it right...

[cortana]

As an occasional user of Windows, I don't know what to expect. Every app on Windows seems to have its own library of widgets. Even Microsoft can't get it right (Office, Visual Studio)...

Re:To do it right...

[cortana]

That did not stop anyone before, and it is not going to stop then now!

Re:To do it right...

[tb3]

So, let me understand this. You can either have a usable interface, or one that blends with the look and feel of Vista.

Is that what you're saying?

Thank You Microsoft!

[netsharc]

Put only program shortcuts on the Start menu. Never put shortcuts to the following on the Start menu:

• Program uninstallers. Users access uninstallers through the Software Explorer control panel.
• Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program.
• Control panels. Users access control panels from the Control Panel home page.
• Program options. Users access program options from the Options command, usually found on the Tools menu.
• Readme files. Reconsider the need for a Readme file because most users rarely look at them. If you do need a Readme file, let users access it from your setup program.
• Web sites. Users access Web sites through appropriate links in your program. Exceptions are Microsoft Update and Windows Catalog.

How I hate software that install all of that in their Start Menu entries. Or programs that insist they go into "C:\Program Files\My Stupid Software Company Inc\My Stupid Program".

Talking about reform, I find the most illogical thing of user interfaces is the menubar.. how do you exit? Go to "File". Where are the options? Under "Tools".. why can't somebody offer a totally new way of making the menu. Start with "Program", where you have "Options" and "About" (maybe "Help" too), then "Document" or "File", and then "Edit", etc.. We're so used to File -> Exit that we stop thinking how illogical such a construct is... exit the file?

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[cbiffle]

Talking about reform, I find the most illogical thing of user interfaces is the menubar.. how do you exit? Go to "File". Where are the options? Under "Tools".. why can't somebody offer a totally new way of making the menu. Start with "Program", where you have "Options" and "About" (maybe "Help" too), then "Document" or "File", and then "Edit", etc.. We're so used to File -> Exit that we stop thinking how illogical such a construct is... exit the file?

It may be worth noting that you've just described the current Mac OS X menubar layout.

Can't blame you; I think it makes more sense too. In fact, most of the Vista guide seems to have similar aspirations (which is my way of recognizing that, even though it looks like a complete rip, it may not be).

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Krimszon]

There will still be programs you will hate, even with the new guidelines. Not even the big companies follow guidelines properly. Adobe for instance. The Creative Suite 2 updater will put temporary folders in the users' My Documents folder, one for each Creative Suite program. It also puts all shortcuts directly in the Programs folder of your start menu (and every update will restore them there). Skype insists on creating two or three pretty useless folders in the users' My Documents folder. Quicktime will put icons on desktop, quicklaunch and notification area without asking. These are guidelines, they seem to be meant to be broken.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Jedi Alec]

Sorry, but I very much appreciate either a help or a readme to tell me what to look at if I can't get something working. Yes, I am perfectly capable of finding the readme.txt in the folder where the program was installed, but why hassle? If I really wanted to get rid of it I can always delete the shortcut, right? Same goes for links to websites that deal with troubleshooting. If the program doesn't work, you can't access the built-in help or links.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

Get a Mac and all those problems are solved!

Program uninstallers. Users access uninstallers through the Software Explorer control panel.

Program uninstallers? Oh, you mean drag the application from /Applications to the Trash.

Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program

Duh.

Program options. Users access program options from the Options command, usually found on the Tools menu.

ALWAYS under application menu -> Preferences

Readme files.

Come in the .dmg image for you to browse before you install. If there is an installer package, you view them in the installer. They aren't stored on your system.

Web sites. Users access Web sites through appropriate links in your program. Exceptions are Microsoft Update and Windows Catalog.

Why should software updates be tied to a web browser at all? Does that even make any sense?

How I hate software that install all of that in their Start Menu entries. Or programs that insist they go into "C:\Program Files\My Stupid Software Company Inc\My Stupid Program".

On a Mac, only one place for program files AND the icons to start the programs: /Applications.

Talking about reform, I find the most illogical thing of user interfaces is the menubar.. how do you exit? Go to "File". Where are the options? Under "Tools".. why can't somebody offer a totally new way of making the menu. Start with "Program", where you have "Options" and "About" (maybe "Help" too), then "Document" or "File", and then "Edit", etc.. We're so used to File -> Exit that we stop thinking how illogical such a construct is... exit the file?

Again, solved on the Mac. Application level functions like Preferences and Quit are in teh application menu.

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[mrgsd]

Talking about reform, I find the most illogical thing of user interfaces is the menubar.. how do you exit? Go to "File". Where are the options? Under "Tools".. why can't somebody offer a totally new way of making the menu. Start with "Program", where you have "Options" and "About" (maybe "Help" too), then "Document" or "File", and then "Edit", etc.. We're so used to File -> Exit that we stop thinking how illogical such a construct is... exit the file?

I believe they are trying to address this in Vista, going as far as removing the menu bar completely (I guess relying on the red X for program exit). Check the following blog post: What happened to the menu bars

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[ben there...]

Microsoft's always been much better at this stuff than anyone else who designs for their platform. SQL Server, Data Access frameworks, Visual Studio: all install without reboot. Office and most of their home apps too I believe. Almost every MS product that ships on CD now prompts for an admin password if you're not admin.

They put all their shortcuts in the Programs folder (usually even in All Users where it should be), and regularly have good help files built into the programs.

They've basically been doing most of this stuff for quite some time, but they likely saw that Apple had some success with documenting and "evangelizing" and decided to give it a shot too.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Petrushka]

Program uninstallers? Oh, you mean drag the application from /Applications to the Trash.

I hear this so often and I'm finally fed up with it. Doing that will not get rid of the mountain-sized piles of shit that are sitting in /Library and ~/Library. Yes, uninstalling in OS X involves more effort than in WinXP. No, that shit will not be a problem in the case of most apps, but for an app that makes use of any kind of database it can occupy half a GB or more. Please stop repeating this lie.

And BTW I do think the OS X setup is much, much better than Windows. That does not mean it's better in every way.

[in OS X] Application level functions like Preferences and Quit are in teh application menu.

... except when they're not.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[MK_CSGuy]

Parent might also want to check the new "ribbons" Office 2007 UI.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[woodhouse]

I disagree. All these extra shortcuts necessitate the need for an extra folder and this adds another layer of navigation which makes the start menu less usable for the 99.9% of the time when you just want to run the program.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[WWWWolf]

why can't somebody offer a totally new way of making the menu. Start with "Program", where you have "Options" and "About" (maybe "Help" too), then "Document" or "File", and then "Edit", etc.. We're so used to File -> Exit that we stop thinking how illogical such a construct is... exit the file?

Congratulations, you just described the Mac OS X menu standards. =) In OS X, the first menu, that has the application's name, usually has the options and quit entries (as well as having standard key shortcuts for them, cmd+comma and cmd+q, respectively).

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Mythrix]

I actually prefer having the uninstall links, because Add/remove programs take a long time to load the list of programs to uninstall, for whatever reasons. But I agree that I hardly ever use the readme or help file links. Or website links. Or links to "what's new" and "readme too" and "warnings" documents.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[gutnor]

"Get a Mac and all those problems are solved!"

Sorry to say that, but no.

Guidelines are meant for developer whatever the guidelines, the developper must follow them: i.e. design its application to met the guidelines.

Now what you are saying is that the overall result when a developer program an application using the guildelines and tools (frameworks, api, infrastructure) available is better on Mac. I sure agree.

But as a developer, to have my problem solved, I would like to develop my application as I would do for a console application using a big config file for all options and such. A magic OS would reverse engineer my config file and analyse my IO and code at runtime to provide the best interface that follow the guidelines for it. A bit like they do in scifi movies: they "code" the interesting bit of the program and the computer do the rest.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[SachiCALaw]

No, that is NOT the current OS X menubar layout. If you click "file" you can find an option to close the _file_ but not the application. You need to click on the application name to find the option to close the application. In Windows, the option to close the application itself is found, as the parent noted, inside the file menu. Totally wrongheaded.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[SEMW]

>In Windows, the option to close the application itself is found, as the parent noted, inside the file menu.

Nope; in Windows, the option to close the application itself is found on the big red X at the top right of the application window. The fact that Microsoft also kept the option in the File menu as a backwards compatibility concession to people who'd been closing applications that way before Windows existed is irrelevant. Same as the keyboard shortcut for paste; when they made ctrl+v the shortcut in Word for Windows, they also kept the ability to use shift+ins as a concession to people who were used to using the latter in Wordperfect.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[SachiCALaw]

I'm aware of that, but the comments above were talking about the "close application" option in the file menu.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[SEMW]

Certainly, but as I said if you'd read my post, the "close application" option in the file menu is a backwards compatibility concession to people who'd been closing applications that way before Windows existed. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame people like Wordperfect, who put 'close' in the file menu of Wordperfect for DOS when they first introduced a menubar. Microsoft just kept it there, not as the preferred way of closing the program, but as a concession to people who'd been doing it that way their whole life. Hence the comparison to shift+ins kept as a working shortcut for those used to using it for 'paste'.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

I hear this so often and I'm finally fed up with it. Doing that will not get rid of the mountain-sized piles of shit that are sitting in /Library and ~/Library. Yes, uninstalling in OS X involves more effort than in WinXP. No, that shit will not be a problem in the case of most apps, but for an app that makes use of any kind of database it can occupy half a GB or more. Please stop repeating this lie.

The majority of application, especially the small applications that you would be installing/uninstalling often, can be removed simply by deleting them from /Applications. That is not a lie. It is just that there are exceptions to the rule. Sometimes you want to clean out ~/Library. Big deal. It isn't like Windows where applications spew DLLs and registry entries all over the place.

Hell, a lot of OS X apps don't even need to be "installed" at all. Many, many times I have run apps right from the Desktop. If I like an app, it goes in /Applications. Or how about storing applications on a portable drive. How convenient is it to take your favorite utilities/apps around with you and not have to clutter the main system? You can even run MS Office from an external drive.

And BTW I do think the OS X setup is much, much better than Windows. That does not mean it's better in every way.

Did I say it was better in every way? No, I simply pointed out that it is better in every way that the grand parent seemed to be concerned about.

[in OS X] Application level functions like Preferences and Quit are in teh application menu.... except when they're not.

I can't think of one off hand that doesn't at least have Preferences and Quit in the application menu. Can you?

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

Sorry to say that, but no.

Why not go through the points and show where the problems listed are not solved, as a general rule, on OS X? Note that I didn't say "all YOUR problems are solved on the Mac." I was specifically talking about the ones listed.

But as a developer, to have my problem solved, I would like to develop my application as I would do for a console application using a big config file for all options and such. A magic OS would reverse engineer my config file and analyse my IO and code at runtime to provide the best interface that follow the guidelines for it. A bit like they do in scifi movies: they "code" the interesting bit of the program and the computer do the rest.

Or you could just follow the guidelines for the platform you are developing for. Why must there be magic involved in order to make your application consistent an intuitive for the user? Even with a console app, you need to follow certain guidelines. Commandline options, for example, are generally expressed with - on a posix systems. And Windows developers can't even get THAT right. Sometimes it is '/', sometimes it is '-'.

What do you think the problem is on Windows? Too many different developers with different ideas of what is intuitive? Too many different development tools that encourage different application design? What is it? I know Windows developers aren't simply incompetant (though some are).

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

That 99% of times is what the desktop icons are for. Or the quicklaunch toolbar.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[VGPowerlord]

As a side note, the Close option is also located in the application menu, along with Restore, Move, Size, Minimize, and Maximize. The application menu being the one that pops up when you click the application's icon in the upper-left corner.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Drgnkght]

Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program.

I do not want to run a program just to have it start yet another program (winhelp.exe or hh.exe) which opens the help file I wanted to read. That's retarded. It's like using a car to jumpstart a lawnmower. </bad car analogy>

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[DragonWriter]

Or you could just follow the guidelines for the platform you are developing for. Why must there be magic involved in order to make your application consistent an intuitive for the user?

"Intuitive for the user" and "consistent with the platform guidelines from the OS manufacturer" are not the same thing, and may often be conflicting. Either because the platform guidelines are ill-considered for intuitive use in the first place (for instance, they specify non-intuitive default behavior), or because the application is in a domain for which the assumptions made in drafting the UI guidelines are just not applicable.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[DragonWriter]

They put all their shortcuts in the Programs folder (usually even in All Users where it should be), and regularly have good help files built into the programs.

Shortcuts shouldn't be put in All Users unless the person installing wants that done: good installers already ask (really, a finer-grained control than "current user" or "all users" would be better.)

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

"Intuitive for the user" and "consistent with the platform guidelines from the OS manufacturer" are not the same thing,

Maybe not, but dont' underestimate the value of consistency. If you put some menu item, for example, in a place other than where the user expects it based on previous experience, your application is going to stand out as "unintuitive." Doesn't matter if your way is "better" in some larger picture.

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[DragonWriter]

Maybe not, but dont' underestimate the value of consistency. If you put some menu item, for example, in a place other than where the user expects it based on previous experience, your application is going to stand out as "unintuitive." Doesn't matter if your way is "better" in some larger picture.

Sure, but that "previous experience" may not be consistent with the OS UI guidelines either; for instance, my biggest personal problem with that is that menu items are in different places in Firefox on Linux and Firefox on Windows. The assumption that the principal experience that is going to shape your application's users expectations is represented by conformity to the OS's UI guidelines is probabyl not all that generally applicable, particularly on a new OS use UI guidelines break from the common practice on even the immediate predecessor of that OS.

However, compliance with those UI guidelines by application developers for a market-dominant OS guarantees that user's experience going is shaped by the guidelines, that that platform's guidelines will be influential in shaping expectations of other platforms, and simply differing from the platforms standards will be a barrier to adoption of other platforms, which is all good—from the perspective of the maker of the platform, not necessarily for users or the makers of other applications.

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

Sure, but that "previous experience" may not be consistent with the OS UI guidelines either; for instance, my biggest personal problem with that is that menu items are in different places in Firefox on Linux and Firefox on Windows. The assumption that the principal experience that is going to shape your application's users expectations is represented by conformity to the OS's UI guidelines is probabyl not all that generally applicable,

Seeing as most users do not switch from platform to platform on regular basis, it is a perfectly reasonable and applicable assumption. If I'm a regular Windows, user I expect to find menu items where other Windows programs put them. The fact that Firefox runs on many platforms is completely irrelevent. Firefox should conform as best as possible to the guidelines/standards of the platform it is running on. And since there is currenly no magic to make this happen automatically, developers should take the time to make it happen.

particularly on a new OS use UI guidelines break from the common practice on even the immediate predecessor of that OS.

Then I guess you need to decide whether or not you want to follow the common practice in the immediate predecessor or help encourage the new standard. But whatever you do, don't do things the same way as a competely different OS just because YOU happen to switch a lot and prefer the way it is done on the other OS. Well, you can do whatever you want, I suppose. But it seems a little selfish.

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[DragonWriter]

Seeing as most users do not switch from platform to platform on regular basis, it is a perfectly reasonable and applicable assumption.

No, really, its not. If most users spent all their time working on computers, and didn't switch platforms, then it might be a reasonable assumption (and even then, it would be questionable on a new OS: because lots of users would be switching platforms.)

If I'm a regular Windows, user I expect to find menu items where other Windows programs put them.

If I'm a regular user with, as many regular users have, a small handful of programs I regularly use, I'll have a natural expectation that the UI arrangement and behavior of other programs doing similar things will match those programs. But it won't necessarily be the OS UI standards, except for the most basic things, if, for instance, I'm a regular Microsoft Office user, since Office, except for the most basic things, doesn't particularly closely follow the existing standards on the platform (even though its MS's own platform.)

If the application is doing very different things, there is less in the way of UI expectations.

The fact that Firefox runs on many platforms is completely irrelevent. Firefox should conform as best as possible to the guidelines/standards of the platform it is running on.

Adherence to platform standards enhances usability for users who have previously used lots of software adhering to those standards, for everyone else its not necessarily a benefit. And much of the most popular software on Windows adheres poorly to any but the most basic platform standards (things like standard decorators, print dialogs, etc.)

I would agree that an application should try to do what it's target audience is likely to find intuitive and natural, which will generally in some degree be shaped by target platform UI standards. But I don't think that one should, either, mistake simple adherence to target platform UI standards as being either sufficient or even necessary for an interface to be intuitive and natural to targetted users.

Then I guess you need to decide whether or not you want to follow the common practice in the immediate predecessor or help encourage the new standard.

I hardly think that the choices are limited to that. I think what a application developer need to do is decide what combination of the old standard, the new standard, and non-standard behavior is likely to work best for the people they are making an application for. (And whether the OS standard is even relevant; plenty of people happily use, and are used to using, and find it intuitive to use plenty of applications use UI paradigm is very different from the "standard" model for their platform.)

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[misleb]

No, really, its not. If most users spent all their time working on computers, and didn't switch platforms, then it might be a reasonable assumption.

Well, I don't think most peole switch platforms. I can't say they spend *all* their time using computers, but certainly many people spend a good portion of the work day using computers. So I think it is a reasonable assumption.

Anyway, my point is that an applicaiton being cross-platform is no excuse for imposing a UI standard from one platform on users another platform. For example, i would be pretty annoyed if Firefox on Mac didn't have Quit/Preferences in the application menu like all other Mac applications. Or worse, Firfox might put the menubar in the browser window instead of the normal menubar at the top of the screen. I WANT Firefox to behave differently on each platform because I "switch gears" when I switch platforms. When I am on Windows, I expect things to work one way, when I am on a Mac I expect them to work another.

If I'm a regular user with, as many regular users have, a small handful of programs I regularly use, I'll have a natural expectation that the UI arrangement and behavior of other programs doing similar things will match those programs. But it won't necessarily be the OS UI standards, except for the most basic things, if, for instance, I'm a regular Microsoft Office user, since Office, except for the most basic things, doesn't particularly closely follow the existing standards on the platform (even though its MS's own platform.)

One would hope that they at least started with their own UI guidlines as a basis for behavior. Even if it did eventually diverge. If you use MS Office on a Mac, you'll notice that it looks and feels quite a bit different than on Windows.

If the application is doing very different things, there is less in the way of UI expectations.

I think applicaiton behavior can be generalized much more than you think. A developer might be tempted to think "my program is special. it is so different than anything else out there," when really, that is more hubris than anything else.

Adherence to platform standards enhances usability for users who have previously used lots of software adhering to those standards, for everyone else its not necessarily a benefit. And much of the most popular software on Windows adheres poorly to any but the most basic platform standards (things like standard decorators, print dialogs, etc.)

Still, those basic things matter. Consistent print dialogs matter. The order of Yes/No buttons matter.

I would agree that an application should try to do what it's target audience is likely to find intuitive and natural, which will generally in some degree be shaped by target platform UI standards. But I don't think that one should, either, mistake simple adherence to target platform UI standards as being either sufficient or even necessary for an interface to be intuitive and natural to targetted users.

Ideally, a developer would do their own usablity studies. But this isn't always feasable. Microsoft and Apple HAVE done usability studies. And I say when in doubt, and when you don't have your own data to suggest otherwise, follow the UI guidelines of the platform. I'm just saying that you should have a good reason for diverging from the standard. Otherwise, you're just contributing to a confusing user experience (as exists on Windows).

-matthew

Re:Thank You Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can also simply double-click the program icon in the upper-left to close the program. I hadn't known this until I worked with a fellow who had been habitually using this feature for who-knows how long.

Integrity?

[medoc]

From the article:

Perception is reality, and if your customers don't experience quality in your product throughout, they may conclude there is lack of quality everywhere. A visual bug seen by all your customers might do more damage to your program's reputation than a rarely occurring crashing bug.

Mind your icons, not your buffer overflows. Great! Will exploits follow the Vista guidelines too ?

Re:Integrity?

[RAMMS EIN]

Vista will (probably) have Address Space Layout Randomization, which makes buffer overflows a lot harder to exploit. Also, if you program for .NET, you will probably be using languages and frameworks that won't allow you to code buffer overflows (and possibly other common classes of vulnerabilities) in the first place.

Two things catched my eye

[Sun]

The first - the design guidelines (10 out of the 12 listed) are focused on appearance rather than on functionality. Making sure your icons look great (#4) comes long before producing a clean interface (#10).

The second is that this document carries a severe undertone of "make sure your app only works on Vista, and looks out of place on anything other than Aero". The entire document keeps saying "use Vista only API whenever you can" and "visually design the application to look out of place when not using the Vista UI" (with a few exceptions).

I guess this is how MS are trying to fight the competition formed by previous OSes being good enough. They try to make sure new applications don't work on them any more.

Shachar

Re:Two things catched my eye

[PhrostyMcByte]

The second is that this document carries a severe undertone of "make sure your app only works on Vista, and looks out of place on anything other than Aero". The entire document keeps saying "use Vista only API whenever you can" and "visually design the application to look out of place when not using the Vista UI" (with a few exceptions).

In all fairness it's called the "Vista User Interface Guidelines" for a reason, not the "Backwards Compatible 2000/XP/Vista User Interface Guidelines".

A lot of the new better APIs (such as making message boxes that have sensible descriptive buttons) have no functional equivalent on XP. Building backwards compatible UIs that still fit in with the Vista model will be a very hard task for programmers, but it's a usability change that had to happen sooner or later unless you wanted to be stuck with XP's unintuitive stuff for as long as Microsoft is in the lead.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[stoanhart]

That may be true, but if it looks good in the Aero UI, it should look good in an Aero-skinned Xgl/Compiz window as well!

Re:Two things catched my eye

[Bing Tsher E]

In all fairness it's called the "Vista User Interface Guidelines" for a reason, not the "Backwards Compatible 2000/XP/Vista User Interface Guidelines".

A lot of the new better APIs (such as making message boxes that have sensible descriptive buttons) have no functional equivalent on XP.

Those points may be true. But Backwards Compatability is actually one of the few things Microsoft does that allows them to hold onto their market share. If we can't 'bring along' our legacy apps from Win32, we're not gonna buy Vista. Microsoft's death-grip on the OEMs isn't strong enough that they can force upgrades to 'Vista' by that means.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[Bralkein]

Yes, and your comment made me realise something else - if your app looks and behaves exactly like a Microsoft one, then it seems like it makes it very easy for Microsoft to replace it! More and more these days it seems like Microsoft are even competing with the people who develop the apps for their platform.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[nine-times]

Building backwards compatible UIs that still fit in with the Vista model will be a very hard task for programmers

So it seems you're saying that Microsoft makes developers jobs hard.

Admittedly, I don't really know what developers think (I'm not a developer), but I'm trying to imagine. Microsoft is telling them to make sure their apps will only run on Vista, thereby limiting their market to early adopters, for the sake making the GUI look more like Vista. I don't think I'd go for it.

As a consumer, it pisses me off. If Microsoft cared about developers or their users at all, they'd figure out a way to make it easy to take advantage of the new stuff as much as possible without forcing them to make Vista-only apps. This just sounds like they're encouraging developers to force users to upgrade to Vista, as if acknowledging that there aren't enough real reasons. I'm sure it'd be MS's wet dream, for example, if Adobe made it's next suite all Vista only, but it wouldn't be good for either Adobe or Adobe users.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[fotbr]

Thats not what they're talking about here.

Your XP apps will work on Vista. This is backwards compatability as far as the OS is concerned.

They just don't want your Vista apps to work on XP, but they're not forcing the issue, since you could still target your apps for XP and they'd work in both.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[Bing Tsher E]

So essentially we 'win' if we demand that third-party Windows developers maintain compatability with Win32. I hesitate to call it 'XP' since XP is just a layer of crayons and kiddie bullshit on top of Windows 2000. XP is the 'Windows Me' of the NT line.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[fotbr]

You can call XP whatever you want, I don't really care. I use it because I have to at work and I do work at home. I'll use Vista for the same reasons. If I had my choice I wouldn't.

But its not "backwards compatability" issues of the OS if stuff developed for Vista doesn't work on anything older. THAT is my complaint -- people crying "backwards compatability" when it doesn't freakin apply.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[Bing Tsher E]

You are probably more correct in your use of the term 'backwards compatability' when describing applications.

Up until recently I used Windows 2000 at work, on a 400 MHz Pentium II system. Then IT 'upgraded' me to a 450 MHz Pentium III system with XP. Windows 2000 was considerably more responsive and useful on the PII than XP is on the PIII. The PIII has more memory, incidentally, and I run XP rolled back to the 'classic' desktop. I just wish I could convince IT to put W2K on the system. But they're dunderheads and actually run Windows on the servers, if you can believe that.

Re:Two things catched my eye

[fotbr]

Our "shop" so to speak is a windows infested place, including the servers, though I think they are at least using windows server 2003. Fortunetly, I don't have to deal with THAT mess.

I know what you mean about win2k being much more responsive. I am willing to give Vista a chance, although it has a lot to overcome before I find it "good". If Beta 2 and RC1 are any indication, it makes XP look stable. :-/

Just wrapped it up tonight

[sporkme]

Vista user experince... for crap. I spent the past couple of months testing this OS, and when my gaming XP boot feels like a safe haven, I know that something is definitely wrong. For migrating XP users, the interface feels counter-intuitive. Even more telling, my college-going roommate has only ever known Red Hat (thank you very much, he has only ever known linux on the front-room computer), and for him the simplest task, like installing Firefox (where's the package?) was torture (not to say there has been a change here). I became so frustrated with ctrl-esc,r yielding a "r" in the ever-so-laggy search sub-start dialogue (instead of a run window) tonight that I just blew out the whole partition. I actually wanted to run iexplore for once! I am downloading Mandrake 64 now, thank the creator.

I found Vista to be too heavy on the eye candy, and it seemed that "power tools" and control panel received heavy design attention, while the ~deeper~ apps like regedit and msconfig are the same old barf. Vista = skinned XP != new OS. Meh. Shiny? Yes. New? No.

Re:Just wrapped it up tonight

[Tim C]

for him the simplest task, like installing Firefox (where's the package?)was torture

Downloading the installer from mozilla.com and clicking "Run" (or double-clicking the exe) is torture? That's nothing to do with the OS, that's just an inability to adapt to a new environment.

I became so frustrated with ctrl-esc,r yielding a "r" in the ever-so-laggy search sub-start dialogue (instead of a run window) tonight that I just blew out the whole partition.

A change of shortcut was enough for you to nuke the install? Look, I don't mean to be rude, but you have to expect changes when you upgrade to a new version - that's true for any piece of software, so why not the OS? (Besides, I'd never even have thought of using ctrl-esc r, I always use win-r)

I found Vista to be too heavy on the eye candy

So disable it.

it seemed that "power tools" and control panel received heavy design attention, while the ~deeper~ apps like regedit and msconfig are the same old barf

You mean "plain but functional"? I don't use msconfig much, but I'm pretty familiar with regedit and I can honestly say that I can't think of a single time I've thought "If only I could do $task!!". What changes would you make to it?

Vista = skinned XP != new OS. Meh. Shiny? Yes. New? No.

Ah yes, because if a change doesn't make a visible difference it doesn't exist. Whole swathes of the OS have been rewritten. True, lots of promised functionality (such as WinFS or monad) didn't make it in, but there are a lot of under-the-hood changes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Vista is perfect - far from it. From my experiences with Beta 2, it was very pretty (which is utterly subjective, of course) but a complete pig, running irritatingly slowly on my machine with an X2 4400+, 2GB of RAM and a 7800GTX. I also utterly failed to get my wireless USB dongle to work (thanks, Netgear, for refusing to even think of providing drivers, either for Vista or XP64, and welcome to my list of companies to think twice about buying from). However writing it off simply because you don't like the new interface and can't see any other changes seems a little premature...

(Me, I wrote it off because of the speed and wireless issues, but will try RC1, as and when I can be bothered)

Re:Just wrapped it up tonight

[aaronl]

RC1 brought back the dozens of LUA prompts for everything. The system managed to randomly have files on the desktop be owned by Administrator. LUA prompts cause occassional corruption of my display; I have to kill and restart the Theme service to fix it. You can still select the desktop as a window, taking the focus away from all other windows with no visual cue to it. They also haven't made Aero be obvious about which window is focused, in general. It's still a slightly bigger window shadow and a red close button, and that's it. There is also no apparent way to choose not to have a wallpaper during user setup. You have to pick one, then log in, go through two dialogues, and turn it off.

For some reason my nForce4 ethernet will not run gigabit. If I try to install the non-MS supplied NVIDIA driver for the last beta, it trashes network. Theme changes crash gaim, too. I also find that the blurring in all of their transparency gives me a strain headache after a while. In the few days that I've been running it, I've learned to never look at title bars, because of the eye strain.

I have to agree with the GP about the new start menu. It is absolutely horrible. The way that the new "All Programs" link works is very annoying. The lack of a Run option ticks me off; I have to hit "Windows Key+R", but many people don't know you can. The menu is also painfully slow to navigate. It causes a large amount of intense disc reads to load items. Basically, it manages to be bigger and more useless than the XP default start menu. Now it doesn't even say start, it just has a Windows logo. They've also even more obfuscated how in the world you turn off, or restart, your computer. It's in a little arrow button next to a picture of a lock (which locks the screen) and a picture of a power button (which suspends instead of powering off the PC).

There are other little things, like the new control panel being very annoying/hard to navigate. I have a default "my computer is not on battery" systray icon for my desktop PC. The sidebar has a widget that cycles through random backgrounds. I had to kill it just to start using the computer, as it was incredibly distracting. Then again, the sidebar exists at all by default, which is horrid.

The little 3D window chooser thing is nifty once or twice, and then pretty much worthless. It doesn't even label the windows, so if you have a few documents open, you just have to guess anyway. It also becomes more worthless as you have more windows open. It doesn't really worth intelligently if you have multiple heads, either.

There are a lot more things in there, but I'm hungry.

Re:Just wrapped it up tonight

[loraksus]

Explorer and quite a few other apps look downright retarded if you turn off themes.

Re:Just wrapped it up tonight

[loraksus]

I found Vista to be too heavy on the eye candy
So disable it.


Explorer and quite a few other apps look downright retarded if you turn off themes.

Preview is great!

Slow everyone down...

[NerveGas]

"For all controls, select the safest (to prevent loss of data or system access), most secure value by default."

In other words, treat the user like they don't know what they're doing. Slow *everyone* down, in order to save the idiots.

I really like knowing that when a dialog box pops up, the enter key will usually complete the task that I requested in the first place.

Re:Slow everyone down...

[westlake]

In other words, treat the user like they don't know what they're doing. Slow *everyone* down, in order to save the idiots.

Works for me. It will probably also work for the 99.9% of users who have ever clicked "Yes" when they should have clicked "No."

Re:Slow everyone down...

[jazman_777]

Slow *everyone* down, in order to save the idiots.

It's the government school way, don't you know?

Re:Slow everyone down...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, i like that one. Homeschool ftw!

Re:Slow everyone down...

[J. J. Ramsey]

"For all controls, select the safest (to prevent loss of data or system access), most secure value by default."

In other words, treat the user like they don't know what they're doing. Slow *everyone* down, in order to save the idiots.

Wait a minute. MS uses an insecure default, and people *rightly* jump on them for it. Yet when they recommend that the default be the secure choice, you jump on them for it. This makes no sense.

Re:Slow everyone down...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slow *everyone* down, in order to save the idiots.

"Just look for... the union label..."

Boring

[krajo]

Did anyone else feel that if everyone followed these rules, using the computer will become incredibly boring ?

bye, krajo

Re:Boring

[misleb]

Did anyone else feel that if everyone followed these rules, using the computer will become incredibly boring ?

What is boring about a consistent, intuitive interface? What is exciting about fumbing around for common function that isn't where you expect to find it? I have more interesting thigns to do with my time than try to figure out where Joe "make the interface exciting" Programmer decided to put the "Options" menu item this week.

-matthew

Re:Boring

[GaryPatterson]

By "boring" do you mean "usable, consistent and more intuitive" ?

Re:Boring

[DragonWriter]

What is boring about a consistent, intuitive interface?

Well, "consistent" when the choices are bad is boring and tedious, "conssitent" when the standard is well designed is not boring. The MS UI guidelines are not, in many cases, intuitive: for example, the "safest option" default (rather than defaulting to the most natural choice except where the purpose of an option is to protect against a critical safety problem, such as a security confirmation) is the antithesis of "intuitive", and quite a effective way to add tedium to routine use.

Prime Directive...

[__aaclcg7560]

Do no evil interface design... Oh, wait a minute, that's the Google guidelines.

*cough*

Evil interface design acceptable if you're writing an application, virus or spyware.

Self Help Document

[aaronwormus]

The guidelines also double as a course in zen buddhism

• Don't restart progress.
• Omit the main instruction only if the only thing you can say is completely obvious.
• Focus on efficient decision making. /ul

broken their own rule one in rule one

[pubjames]

Notice that in Rule 1, the word "aero" is not in the font they say you have to use...

Re:broken their own rule one in rule one

[gbjbaanb]

Notice that rule 2 is already ignored by the MS Office team...

Rule 2: Use common controls and common dialogs
Use common controls and common dialogs to achieve an accessible, high-quality, and consistent UI in your application. Don't spend time rebuilding standard UI components

Re:broken their own rule one in rule one

[f8l_0e]

I was wondering if anyone else was going to catch that. Although I'm suprised that no one mentioned the reflection on the aero logo and how it rips off Apple's look and feel.

Media player

[HanVerspiltTijd]

Looks like Microsoft is not fully committed to the unbundling of the media player.....

From TFA:

"Use the Accessories folder if users think of your program as an accessory and it isn't part of the core user experience.
For example, Windows Media Player is a core user experience, whereas Sound Recorder is not."

Re:Media player

[westlake]

For example, Windows Media Player is a core user experience, whereas Sound Recorder is not.

let me know when you find a linux distro for home users where media play is not part of the core experience

user Rule #2

[BiggerIsBetter]

Do NOT install Vista. ;-)

Re:user Rule #2

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, bigger really is better.

Re:user Rule #2

[marshmallow soup]

Do NOT install Vista. Judiously.

Re:user Rule #2

[Anonymous Coward]

User Rule #3: ...
User Rule #4: Profit!

Re:user Rule #2

[tehcyder]

Do NOT install Vista. Judiously.

When writing text DO use the spellchecker.

Re:user Rule #2

[Anonymous Coward]

When writing text DO use the spellchecker.

This message brought to you by: "tehcyder"

Now if only they followed these "rules" themselves

[melted]

Now if only they followed these "rules" themselves, Vista wouldn't be such a nauseating, gaudy, broken piece of shit.

Did you read it?

[lilnobody]

It seems these "guidelines" focus more on drawing attention to the user's choice of OS, rather than actually doing anything to productively assist the user in their work without becoming an annoyance in the process.

Compared to from TFA:

Use animations that improve usability, such as animations and transitions that show relationships, causes, and effects. Animations are best used to provide information that would require text to explain, or might otherwise be missed. The human eye is sensitive to motion, especially peripheral motion. If you use animation to draw attention to something, make sure that attention is deserved and worthy of interrupting the user.

That's not "Aero Aero Aero!" That's saying "Don't make your program fancier than it needs to be, jackass." It's good advice, and the file is full of usability guidelines that an awful lot of programmers would do well to read. Many of them are not Vista-specific, either:

Prefer determinate progress bars over indeterminate ones to provide better feedback.
Remove redundant text.
Present choices and settings in terms of user goals, not technology.

The guidelines are actually quite good. Some are arbitrary, such as button text capitalization schemes, but they are almost assuredly the same schemes used by the windows developers, so that arbitrary decision can be made consistently and your program doesn't look like the Aero equivalent of a web page with 18 point yellow text on a teal background with a midi clip.

nobody

Re:Did you read it?

[Petrushka]

The guidelines are actually quite good. Some are arbitrary,

They're ok as far as they go, but they're very, very vague. Now, I'm not (currently) a Mac user, but anyone can tell from a glance that Apple's design guidelines from the 1980s are infinitely more helpful than this list. It's not half-baked, exactly; but it's certainly not more than two-thirds-baked.

Re:Did you read it?

[johneee]

Of course they are. That's why it's the 12 top rules rather than the full guidelines, which are quite specific.

Unless that's what you're talking about, in which case I apologise, but it does seem to me that the full guidelines are quite specific, so I assumed not.

Rule 13: annoyance level = high by default

[SanderDJ]

That's a rule that MS has always followed.

I myself have always looked for the button/menu to change this level to low. Haven't found it sofar. Will let you know when I do.

the best bit

[joe 155]

I just loved this bit;

"# Focus on what users really need to know. Don't avoid important text--be explicit whenever necessary--but don't be redundant or verbose. Because users often scan text, make every word count. Simple, concise text not only saves screen space, it most effectively conveys an important idea or action.

# Remove redundant text. Look for redundant text in window titles, main instructions, supplemental instructions, content areas, command links, and commit buttons. Generally, leave full text in instructions and interactive controls, and remove any redundancy from the other places.

glad to see MS don't break their own rules!

Re:the best bit

[inKubus]

Actually, THIS is the best bit (last sentence):

"Perception is reality, and if your customers don't experience quality in your product throughout, they may conclude there is lack of quality everywhere. A visual bug seen by all your customers might do more damage to your program's reputation than a rarely occurring crashing bug."

Re:the best bit

[RAMMS EIN]

``glad to see MS don't break their own rules!''

They copied that from Apple, too.

Random observations

[WWWWolf]

"Present choices and settings in terms of user goals, not technology"

...and in the example, it turns "Enable Internet Connection Sharing Host" and "Manual duplex" to "Allow other network users to connect through this computer's Internet connection" and "Print on both sides of the paper".

I agree on the principle, but it's funny how they chose both bad example and good example on how to use this rule.

"Manual duplex" is a bad way of saying "Print on both sides of the paper", it doesn't mean much if you take it out of context (my first thoughts were "there's still modems where you need to switch sending and receiving manually?"). But the ICS example is just too simplified. It's hard to read. Imagine hunting for the ICS option from a huge dialog. You need to read a lot of these "easy explanation" options. Too many words. "Share this computer's Internet connection" would be better.

The task-based language is okay, but in a lot of places in XP, I've found Microsoft is overdoing it and making the thing harder to use, rather than easier. Task descriptions just shouldn't get too wordy. If a longer explanation is needed, tooltips are there.

Use the first person (I, me, my) to let users tell the program what to do.

Ah, so Microsoft's stated goal of using my-spam is to create a friendlier atmosphere. I'm thinking they kind of succeed too well on that.

Must... refrain... from... joking... MyComputerMyFilesMyDuploBricks! Arrrrggggh. Sorry.

Security First?

[ph0enix]

"Scheduling time for a visual clean-up at pixel level, layout corrections (alignment, spacing), and other visual "fit and finish" is as important as it is to schedule time for bug fixing and other types of quality control.

Nice to see that Microsoft is commited to putting security first; No, they've definately given up compromising security and stability for eyecandy and features. </SARCASM&gt

Re:Security First?

[Anonymous Coward]

These are the UI Design guidelines not the security guidelines... I hate to be defending MS, but at least don't be an idiot.

Re:Lovely

[abandonment]

yeah, it's hilarious that pretty much everyone of these rules, XP violates in hideous ways, from the annoying 'notifications' on down.

i'm wary that they are encouraging developers to pop up yet more of these stupid balloon notification messages though...they're annoying enough in XP, can't wait until every 2 seconds you have a balloon popping up asking one thing or another.

the other hilarious thing is microsoft trying to tell people what 'cool' is in respect to application design. yikes

Shneiderman's Eight Golden Rules

[Alioth]

Shneiderman's Eight Golden Rules for user interface design has been around for years (pre-dates Windows 3.x, in any case). Any UI designer should be conversant with these rules:

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/almstrum/cs370/elvi sino/rules.html

Am I the only one who doesn't want a "user experience"? If I'm getting an "experience", the damned user interface is getting in my way. I just want to get the job done, not have an "experience".

Once again

[Anonymous Coward]

The /. crowd manages to mod itself insightfull and informative, while it's obvious most people d not know what they are posting about.....

Consistant MS thoughts on the menu bar...

[Chris_Keene]

From TFA:
"For programs that create or view documents, use the standard menu categories such as File, Edit, View, Tools, and Help." (part of rule 10).

From the shell blog (posted to /. a few days a go):
"However, menus can be used inappropriately - particularly when developers slavish follow the File/Edit/View//help pattern. These standard menus are really designed for document-based applications, where there is a lot of saving, printing, cutting, pasting, and window management going on."
http://shellrevealed.com/blogs/shellblog/archive/2 006/09/20/What-happened-to-the-menu-bars_3F00_.asp x

Bit of a contradiction there, but I can see the argument for both. 'File' has become the generic application menu, e.g. web browsers - which only deal with files in a limited way - have a file menu, so does basically any other app. It's just a badly named menu entry. As ever OS X gets this right (the first menu entry is named after the app).

To be fair to MS, one is the official useability guidelines, the other is an informal blog, it's probably better than MS not allowing their staff to blog incase such contradictions come out.

Re:Consistant MS thoughts on the menu bar...

[SuiteSisterMary]

Sorry, but where's the contradiction between 'for programs that create or view documents" and "These standard menus are really designed for document-based applications"? The blogger says not to use the file/edit/view paradigm in non-document based programs, while the first quote is talking about...document based programs.

Sucky UI design

[edxwelch]

Most of the rules are just about the Aero eye candy and do nothing for usabilty.
If you look at rule 5 you will see that they still have the idiotic confirmation dialog boxes that only have a limited range of answers (ok, cancel, retry, yes, no). What happens if none of these answers are appropiate to the dialog question?
This is a flaw, that you can't specify the button text in message dialogs that has been in most frameworks since day one.

Microsoft offering UI design guidleines?

[g051051]

They could have saved a lot of typing by just linking to the Apple Human Interface Guidelines.

Re:Microsoft offering UI design guidleines?

[Achromatic1978]

Oh! Witty! Appendix 1 can be all the places Apple breaks said HIG in its own applications.

This is a good read, from an Apple development house.

A funny Vista UI picture.

[master_p]

I found this:

http://www.marcorolandi.com/imgs/just4fun.jpg

I don't know if the meaning of word 'consistency' has been changed lately...do you?

Re:A funny Vista UI picture.

[loraksus]

Also funny, although it needs no text.
Linky

user Rule #3

[paxmaniac]

If you still want to install Vista, see rule #1.

Re:user Rule #3

[mad_minstrel]

What if I already installed Vista?

Re:user Rule #3

[Anonymous Coward]

then :

1. Remove pants
2. Spread your legs
3. Bend forover
4. Kiss your ass goodbye

Re:user Rule #3

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

I would have said format & install linux. But I suppose other people, other preferences :-/

Rule 2 - Typo or just not caring?

[Burning Plastic]

Ensure your user interface is CORRECTLY using the Windows Vista common controls (ComCtl32 v6). (my emphasis)

Do the guys writing this understand English or do they just not care about writing coherent sentences / proofreading?

Re:Rule 2 - Typo or just not caring?

[Burning Plastic]

Should have been rule 1. Guess I should start following my own advice...

*&(*& posting timeout...

Re:Rule 2 - Typo or just not caring?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure you understand English?

13.

[dp_wiz]

13. Use BSOD judiciously

Yes/No dialogs again

[roskakori]

One of the worst misfeatures of Windows (and its developer community) is the retarded design of dialogs. AFAIK the pre-Vista API has a bunch a simple functions to do Yes/No and Ok/Cancel dialogs, but nothing to label buttons sensibly. So it's quite common to have a dialog with "Yes" and "No" buttons, and and huge text explaining what these options mean. Despite the fact that every at least semi-decent article or book about dialog design recommends to use verbs for button labels.

I recently read that Vista finally offers an API to easily change the button labels. Yeah! And guideline 5 (Use task dialogs for new or frequently used dialog boxes and error messages) specifically recommends:

Use positive commit buttons that are specific responses to the main instruction instead of generic labels (such as "OK"). Users should be able to quickly grasp the options by reading the button text alone. Always start commit button labels with a verb.

Yeah again!

However, above this guideline we can see a screenshot of the classic, super retarded Windowesque "Save changes? Yes/No/Cancel" dialog.

I suggest for the final document they just copy this dialog from any random Mac OS application and put a Vista theme on it.

I have one for Microsoft

[Greyfox]

Don't let the application handle the window frame. Even their latest OS feels sluggish and unresponsive when retarded applications (Like Outlook) stop processing Window frame controls because they're syncing from the network or some other bullshit. I should always be able to move, minimize and close an application immediately no matter what that application is doing. This has been a pet peeve of mine ever since I was first exposed to Windows back in the 3.0 days. OS/2 actually had the threaded OS before Microsoft did and you could always tell the shoddy knock-off ports of Windows 3.1 software from the code that was actually written for OS/2 because proper OS/2 code at least made an effort to process events in threads, while the knock-off ports would hang the entire OS up when they stopped processing events to index disk and stuff and the system input queue filled up. At least Microsoft got that right and most of the time a misbehaving application will only lock up its own window.

Now if an application were written properly this wouldn't be an issue -- the application would have a thread dedicated to UI work and in theory the interface should be highly responsive, but you're trusting all the application developers to implement their programs properly and not even Microsoft is capable of setting a good example. Their OS would almost not suck if they'd just fix this one design flaw and I'm going to keep blowing this horn until they do.

Re:I have one for Microsoft

[loraksus]

I should always be able to move, minimize and close an application immediately no matter what that application is doing.

No kidding. I RC1, the desktop still hangs for about 15 seconds when you move an icon OVER a shortcut that points to a disconnected network share. Although they've added eye candy, some bugs that have existed since 95 still haven't been fixed.

Re:I have one for Microsoft

[Toreo asesino]

Windows XP & 2003 handles unresponsive programs just fine. The window contents will of course look awfull as the application won't be answering paint requests, but you can move, minimise, resize (i think); whatever you want. In fact, the title-bar of the application even changes too if you're trying to interact with to to "XYZ - Not Responding" until it wakes up again.

I gather Linux deal with these problems in a simular way.

Re:I have one for Microsoft

[kisielk]

Huh? I've never been able to move or resize unresponsive application Windows. In fact I just tried it now and it certainly doesn't work here on XP Pro..

Re:I have one for Microsoft

[Aquila Deus]

Becuase a window is managed by the application and not the OS. BTW you can always use win32wm to force moving a dead window, and Win+D to force minimize.

Still, they make the same error

[tetrode]

Their common dialog box is still yes no cancel. While gnome and kde (i think) has adopted a different and in my opinion far better strategy.

People are afraid of doing things wrong. Especially at a computer, as they have learned that a computer is *VERY* unforgiving. Turn it off, and your document isn't saved, you get chkdsk errors, your operating system does not start, you have to pay your local guru big bucks or a bottle of wine to keep the damn thing running. Turn the TV off and on again and it all works. You need to treat the computer with respect. So you say (err - click) yes to it - all of the time.

Do you want to save the document: Yes
Do you want do delete the folder: Yes (o shit)
Do you want to uninstall this application: Yes (where were these disks again)
Do you want to format this disk: Yes

Now, look at gnome. That interface is talking to you in a quite different way. When you close gedit (the notepad equivalent) without saving, it will tell you

          Do you want to save the document 'xyz'
          If you don't save it, your changes of the last n seconds will be lost

          [Don't Save] [Cancel] [Save]

Now that is informative, and i really have to make a meaningful choice. I need to choose between Save and Don't Save. Or I pick cancel which will surely take me back to the previous state.

Much better than the windows common control, which has been devised in Windows 2.0 (I kid you not) and still in Windows fscking Vista, noone has had the courage to reread 'About Face' and reshape it.

Sigh

Mark

Re:Still, they make the same error

[AaronLawrence]

Actually, I think that these guidelines DO say this; there is a mention of using named actions on dialog buttons. But there is also a "Yes no cancel" dialog above that, so they seem a bit undecided (probably because Windows and many Microsoft applications are full of such dialogs already).

Too little, too late

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

So ... three months before plnned release, they FINALLY get around to releasing guidelines. And they are going to whine when nobody's software complies.

And they aren't even the final version.

Yeah!

[sproketboy]

Something for Gnome and KDE folk to copy!

Here's one for everyone, including Apple

[Midnight Thunder]

Here's one for everyone, including Apple:

Be consistent in the use of the UI:
  - Apple screwed up badly in recent times, with having a mixture of Aqua, Metal, new Aqua and whatever else.
  - Microsoft also screwed up in Windows XP with having a mixture of different open dialogs, for essentially doing the same thing.

Re:Here's one for everyone, including Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Aqua, Metal, and "new Aqua" (?), are just color schemes.

Re:Here's one for everyone, including Apple

[Reaperducer]

I'm familiar with Aqua and brushed metal, and the new brushed metal that's less brushed and more smooth. What's "New Aqua?" Can you link to an example?

Re:Here's one for everyone, including Apple

[Midnight Thunder]

What's "New Aqua?" Can you link to an example?

The not so brushed metal. I couldn't think of another description for it.

Disagree on most - and here's why

[Animaether]

Program uninstallers. Users access uninstallers through the Software Explorer control panel.

Oh dear lord I hope they sped that thing up, then! How many programs do you have installed? Have you tried going to Add/Remove Programs lately? How speedy is that thing for you? Now try and find the application in the list.
Or a user could use go to the start menu where they find the program, and click the uninstaller shortcut there.
Hmm.. tough choice!
I'm not saying that the Add/Remove Programs information shouldn't be set - I'm saying that you should use /both/.

Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program.

Why would I force the user to -run- my application when all they may need to do is look up a quick item on it?
I know car analogies suck, but would you want to start your car before you can grab the owner's manual to see when it was again that you need your brakes checked?

Control panels. Users access control panels from the Control Panel home page.

Not sure how this one differs from...

Program options. Users access program options from the Options command, usually found on the Tools menu.

This one. Maybe a 'Control Panel' is like AVG's quick overview of services and which ones are active, and the 'Options' are when you open the actual service. Well, in the case of AVG there's no shortcuts to the individual little services, so the 'Control Panel' or dashboard or whatever people want to call it rather needs that shortcut there. I'd be damned if I had to go all the way through Windows' own Control Panel stuff just to get there - like QuickTime does. wtf.
That said - I do believe these -both- just need to be under the program, or -be- the program (a la AVG)

Readme files. Reconsider the need for a Readme file because most users rarely look at them. If you do need a Readme file, let users access it from your setup program.

I'll agree on this one - last-minute changes should simply be noted either after installation (offer the user a choice to view it), or from the Help file; updating a help-file with last-minute information isn't exactly rocket science.

Web sites. Users access Web sites through appropriate links in your program. Exceptions are Microsoft Update and Windows Catalog.

And here's a disagree; again, why would I force my users to start up the app just in order to get to the webpage about it?

So let's say I implement all these...
Start Menu\Programs\MyApp\The Program
Start Menu\Programs\MyApp\Uninstall
Start Menu\Programs\MyApp\Help
Start Menu\Programs\MyApp\Go to the web
and optionally
Start Menu\Programs\MyApp\Configure the program if there's something inane happening that's preventing The Program from running - say, a wrong choice of video resolution that's just blanking the screen - allow a Configuration app to change this without the user having to muck around in configuration files / the registry.

That' 4, 5 shortcuts tops. Is that really too many if it's all neatly in a single 'subfolder'?

Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb.

[oyenstikker]

Present choices * and settings in terms of user goals, not technology. Use everyday words when you can. This is especially
effective if you are explaining a complex technical concept or action. Imagine you are looking over the user's shoulder and explaining how to accomplish the task.

Technology-based:
* Enable Internet Connection Sharing host
* Manual Duplex

Goal-based:
* Allow other network users to connect through this computer's Internet connection.
* Print on both sides of the paper.

This tendancy annoys me more and more with ever release of Windows, for many reasons:
1) Most everybody knows what "duplex" means. Why not let those who don't learn what it means instead of pretending the word doesn't exist, and encouraging people to forget.
2) When I am on the phone with a user, I can say "look for the options that says something like "Internet Connection Sharing". Most users will not find the goal-based option, as it does not include the word "sharing".
3) I know what I'm looking for. I know what it was called in NT4, 2000, and 2003 server. Now I have to read paragraphs and guess that "Allow other network users to connect through this computer's Internet connection" is Internet Connection Sharing and not Web Proxy.
4) It encourages the user to not learn about the very complex piece of equipment he just bought. If you provide a good searchable manual instead of dumbing everything down, the program will be easier to use, and the user will learn more.

Imagine if your grill didn't say "Ignite" above the red button, but "Make the fire start", or if your toaster didn't say "Toast", but "Make your bread crispy", or if your car didn't say "ABS", but "Automatically remove and reapply pressure on the brake so your car doesn't skid. Don't pump your brakes".

This is slashdot, so I need to reference either Orwell or Rand:
Or are they trying to reduce English to a smaller set of simple words that everybody can understand? Double-plus ungood.

The profit motive won't help

[daviddennis]

Funny post!

I have a Windows computer I use only for testing. It was given to me by a friend who couldn't keep the virii and spyware off of it. I eradicated most of it (I think there's a lot still lurking, but I have limited time for the chase).

McAfee still, every day, several times a day, tells me my virus definitions are out of date, and my anti-spam is out of date. I know but I don't care since i only use the computer to test my web sites.

But several times a day, for a year, the popups still appear.

I'm sure that guideline was written for the people who do things like that, but I'm equally sure nothing will change, because the revenue potential of the daily reminders is too strong.

Marketing by irritation is something I really hate. I'll never buy a McAfee product again, that's for sure. Althogh I'm sure Norton and others do the same thing.

D

Re:The profit motive won't help

[Monte]

RE: Programs like McAfee constantly bugging the user: Indeed. I'd like every notification box to include a "STFU" button, that when pressed, will suppress that notification from coming up ever again. In addition, we can add a "complaint box" for the computer where it can log what it's unhappy about, and the user can check the box when desired (or when they think something is wrong).

Computers should be seen and not heard. No, Windows, you may not eat at the grownups table until you learn to behave.

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[limabone]

This is because Microsoft, right or wrong, wants to turn a computer into a household appliance, where the user can simply turn it on and screw around with it, not having to read the manual unless they get stuck. (Who reads the manual for their toaster or microwave oven?)

User Rule #4

[MicrosoftRepresentit]

Please don't use Microsoft software! LOL!

you're right

[oohshiny]

You're absolutely right: it's Apple, not Microsoft, that should be blamed for this kind of dumbed-down feel-good bullshit, since Apple started it. It clearly gets companies noticed and makes people want to buy the machines. Too bad that it has never been shown to actually make users more productive.

LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[twitter]

from what not to do,

Be polite, supportive, and encouraging. The user should never feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated.
Acceptable: Cannot delete New Text Document: Access is denied.
Better: This file is protected and cannot be deleted without specific permission.

There you go, you need to be polite and supportive when you tell the user they can't do what they want to do. Instructions won't do any good because there is no way to get the thing done. The user then only has to remember the sounds of crashing chairs and "I'm going to fucking kill Google! I've done it before and I'm going to do it again."

Don't foreget that when your computer is really slow, pops up images of American Express Cards and naked ladies at random, it's all your fault, you stupid little shit, you visited the wrong site and downloaded things you should not have. Please don't feel condescended to, blamed, or intimidated as company representatives tell you this over and over.

What a bunch of double talk.

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[jb.hl.com]

Yes twitter. File permissions (which the dialog boxes you cited are about) are DRM and must be crushed. And Microsoft do love to call people "stupid little shits" over the phone. And it's not the user's fault that they downloaded and installed porn dialers cos they wanted to see some T&A.

Forgot your meds today twitter?

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[Keith Russell]

it's all your fault, you stupid little shit

Ladies and gentlemen, twit in a nutshell. A sad, sorry, little ball of hatred and paranoia.

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=88413&cid=7656 803
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=77588&cid=6896 690
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=73226&cid=6595 921
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=71864&cid=6492 229
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=69025&cid=6312 196
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=49657&cid=5011 656
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=180946&thresho ld=1&cid=14972959
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=129735&thresho ld=5&cid=10823036
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=112229&cid=952 1025&threshold=5
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=137420&cid=114 89094&threshold=5
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155076&cid=130 11391&threshold=5
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=113493&thresho ld=5&cid=9614809
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=164775&cid=137 51004
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=126301&thresho ld=5&cid=10572437
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=119108&thresho ld=5&cid=10056927
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=135403&cid=112 99129&threshold=5
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=136181&thresho ld=5&cid=11374447
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134005&thresho ld=5&cid=11203454
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=159878&thresho ld=0&cid=13384602
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166661&cid=138 99128&threshold=2
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168164&cid=140 19967
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168163&cid=140 20030&threshold=5
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172399&thresho ld=1&cid=14355804

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[twitter]

Ladies and gentlemen, twit in a nutshell. A sad, sorry, little ball of hatred and paranoia.

I'm sorry, I forgot to put in the Steve Balmer voice tags so that M$ PR drones could get the joke. Blame the user is a Microsoft game.

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[jb.hl.com]

Blame the user is a Microsoft game.

The very fact that "RTFM" is a well known phrase from informal Linux support channels suggests otherwise.

Re:LMAO, DRM Etiquette

[Keith Russell]

it's all your fault, you stupid little shit

I'm sorry, I forgot to put in the Steve Balmer voice tags so that M$ [sic] PR drones could get the joke. Blame the user is a Microsoft game.

That's the sanctimonious tone you've taken in every hate-filled anti-Microsoft post you've ever made, even if you didn't say it outright.

so can

[marafa]

so can those working on the portland project read this disclosure or will that compromise the Gnu/Linux User Interface project?

Microsoft becoming Sirius Cybernetics?

[Monte]

After reading the guidelines I got the distinct impression that they were trying to instill Vista with Genuine People Personality(tm).

"Happy Service!"

Rule 9

[consumer_whore]

I like how Microsoft is telling us not to be arrogant.

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are...

[SEMW]

>Most everybody knows what "duplex" means.

Almost everyone on Slashdot, maybe. But the average user who's just bought one of them computer things from PC World to see what all this fuss about the interwebs is about? I don't think so. The former set of users will understand both 'Duplex' and 'Print on both sides of the paper', though they may prefer the former command for its brevity; the latter set will understand only the latter command. In changing the former to the latter, Microsoft are just increasing the percentage of people who will at least understand what the command will do.

Idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's rule zero: DON'T PUT the "Close Window" gadget beside the "Maximise Window" one. Retarded Designs 'R' Uz.

Write Multiple Copies of Your Applications?

[Carcass666]

I wish Microsoft would expand the scope of the article to not only how to write applications to leverage the "Vista experience", but also to author your applications so that they will properly levergage any updates to standard libraries (current and forthcoming) so that if your applications is loaded onto Windows 2K, XP or Vista; the user will have a consistent experience.

In Microsoft's view of the world, all corporations will update to Vista the day after it is released. In reality, many are still running "legacy" OS's. Letting us know which standard libraries, fonts, etc. will be propogated to older OS's that are still in use will help developers create applications that an organization can deploy without fear of incompatibility.

One example is the new Aero wizard. Will versions of this control be available on XP/2K? Or are we supposed to build different versions of an app for different OS's? (disclaimer, I have not yet done any research on this, so if this is a poor example, appologies in advance)

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[westlake]

Most everybody knows what "duplex" means. Why not let those who don't learn what it means instead of pretending the word doesn't exist, and encouraging people to forget.

maybe because microsoft markets to non-technical end users who don't have and don't want to keep the Geek OED on their desktop?

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[spitzak]

I agree somewhat, although for me "duplex" does not mean anything, I would look for a term containing "both sides" or "2 sided" or something like that. Maybe I don't print enough.

In any case, you are right, such descriptive labels make it very hard to find something in the case where the user knows something is there and wants to locate it. Also there is the need to quickly communicate, by voice or text, the identity of a control. In these cases very short, and cryptic, but unique, terms are actually best!

I would think the solution is combination labels:

  [] duplex (print on both sides of the paper)
  [] ICS (allow other computers to use this one's internet connection)
  [] grep (search for a piece of text in all your files)

This would allow easy identification of which item is which by the short cryptic name, and just as much help. In fact it could allow a lot more help because other items can be referred to by the short name, producing readable sentences that indicate relations between them.

Apple logo?

[edis]

And are they putting Apple logo, too?

Icon problem

[ignivs]

Select icons based on meaning, not appearance. Make sure that your icons have consistent meaning throughout your application and don't conflict with existing icons or conventions in the system, or in other commonly used Windows-based applications.

Please MS. folk, read this and switch IE incon for any kind of bug... a fly fits perfectly!!!

Do as I say, not as I do.

[eikonos]

MS often breaks their own rules, and the fact that they've used screenshots of existing Windows features to show what NOT to do highlights this. As a specific example, these new guidelines say not to use a Welcome page or a Congratulations page in a Wizard, yet many of their Wizards -- such as the Zip File Wizard -- do exactly that.

It's great that they've written up these UI Guidelines, but it isn't going to make much difference until they start following their own rules. Is a developer who uses Windows daily going to follow these interface guidelines, or are they going to copy the Windows UI style even though it breaks the guidelines?

Re:Do as I say, not as I do.

[WebCrapper]

Whats funny is that a few of the rules are broken in almost every piece of software for Windows. Its really funny how they recomend tone and such for software. "Don't do it this way...do it like this - it's much friendlier."

Expando button

[swankjesse]

This is an awesome name for the little Advanced >> button on some dialogs. From the guidelines:

"Consider cleaning up your dialog by using a More Options "expando" button, so advanced or rarely used options remain hidden by default."

Shared/Core components! Configurations/logs.

[antdude]

I also hate programs that must install in Windows system drive like DLL files, core files, shared files, etc.

Log and configuration files as well. They should be in the installation directory/folder.

Some programs don't ask me if I want a desktop shortcut, Start Menu shortcut, QuickLaunch, etc.

Some programs hate to have their stuff in Start Menu, QuickLaunch, etc. to be moved/renamed/deleted. So, they repair it. Argh!

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[oyenstikker]

Windows needs an option that you can select at install time: "I'm not an idiot. I know what I'm doing. Give me all the rope I ask for." The results would be:

No Fischer Price interface.
No dummy descriptions.
Show all files.
No, really, all of them.
Yes, even the ones in WINNT and Program Files.
Classic control panel.
Classic task bar.
Classic start menu.
Nothing prefixed with "My ".
Don't create any user accounts other than Administrator in the installation.
Ctrl+Alt+Delete login.
No stupid animation to help me search.
No stupid yellow boxes pointing to the system tray and telling me things like "You should sign up for Passport" or "You should run windows update."
Only ask me if I really meant to do something if I am permanently deleting files.
No Wizards for anything.

My Biggest Pet Peeve

[ffejie]

Finally, they're taking aim at something I despise on Windows XP.

"Create a product folder if your product is a collection of individual programs (three or more), and users think of your product in terms of that collection. Use only a single-level folder for this purpose."

I hate when applications make trees to put one program into it. Useless! Now we just need the designers to follow this spec.

Feature advertisements bad??

[KIFulgore]

"Don't use notifications for feature advertisements!"

Clippit, anyone?

Re: ProgramFiles/SomeCompany/SomeApp/App

[TaoPhoenix]

What exactly was the deal with this?

I find programs start trying to save here too, so that I get to constantly navigate :
"Up/Up/Up/C:/Docs/Username/Desktop/ProjectsFolder/ Project/DocGoesHere"

That ends up being some 12+ clicks.

All of them

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to install ALSA on any of them. And NONE of them use Windows Media Player. Try removing amrok on linux and Media Player on Windows XP/Vista.

PS Don't people like you complain you can't get sound out of Linux? Isn't that saying they don't have sound as the core experience.

Maybe they need a guide on how NOT to write guides

[Mixel]

Links don't take access keys. Links are accessed with the Tab key. Traditionally, hyperlinks are underlined, so the access keys aren't visible, and often there are too many links on a page for access keys to have any value. Exception: Command links take access keys and have a default selection state. While command links look like links, they behave like command buttons.

Say, what?

Mmmm! marketing

[doesnothingwell]

"A visual bug seen by all your customers might do more damage to your program's reputation than a rarely occurring crashing bug."

"You can't polish a turd. Beavis"

CLOSE minimizes to tray!

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see ANY recommendation to get rid of this abomination. How many people go nuts because little X button does not quit the application but minimizes it to tray instead? if I want to MINIMIZE the bastard, I do have an appropriate control (nice, shiny MINIMIZE button).
But of course, then too many people would log off the MSN Messenger. And MS doesn't want that, does it?

HIG will follow

[Goodgerster]

I can't wait for the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines to adopt Windows Vista screenshots as examples of what not to do...

Resolution Independence

[Anonymous Coward]

"While the minimum Windows Vista screen resolution remains at 800 x 600 pixels, resizable window layouts should be optimized for 1024 x 768 pixels."

Wow. They still haven't grasped the concept of resolution independence.

Any They Missed

[seven7h]

Anyone out there got any ideas for anything that should have been in there but they missed?

Mine is Dont have selection boxes with just yes no and canel on them, make them more informative such as is in linux, ie Save File and Discard, Don't Close and Save.

Re:Any They Missed

[Guy Harris]

Mine is Dont have selection boxes with just yes no and canel on them, make them more informative such as is in linux, ie Save File and Discard, Don't Close and Save.

...which was, I think, recommended by Apple before being popular on other systems. (See "Buttons for addressing the alert".)

Of course, "on Linux" in this context really means "in GNOME" or "in KDE" or ..... The GNOME Human Interface Guidelines make the same suggestion about button labels, which I think they took from the OS X HIG. The KDE HIG also suggests buttons with verbs. I don't know what other DEs or toolkits recommend (if anything) or support.

Then again, even one of Microsoft's HIGs suggests that, albeit not as strongly (look for "Dialog Box Commands"). For that matter, so does the Vista HIG (look for "Use positive commit buttons").

Re:Any They Missed

[tehcyder]

Save File and Discard, Don't Close and Save

Well, the third one's clear enough, I'll give you that.

Good guidelines

[doni77]

I just don't see Windows (ui) developers to change some of their habits. Using standard UI components is often seen boring and restricting. And so sacrificed to make some cool(?) interface like Winamp, ICQ ect. "Look at all the tricks I can code" often overshadows all these fancy guidelines. At least for small scale freeware/shareware software.

Those who know things will be able to help when th

[krischik]

"Those who know things will be able to help when things go wrong."

Sadly UI-Desiners don't care about the "user who knows" any more. In fact: This is the most frustrating thing about Windows. And it is not only Windows - the Linux Desktops are following that trent.

In fact the GNOME design philosophy is a lot like the text discussed - and in both cases (Windows and GNOME) I feel deprived of options (I use KDE for day to day work).

Martin

Your computer is not on UPS

[tepples]

Now it doesn't even say start, it just has a Windows logo.

Well at least people can't claim that you have to press Start to stop the computer.

I have a default "my computer is not on battery" systray icon for my desktop PC.

Do you have an uninterruptible power supply installed? Could Windows Vista have unified support for laptop power and for UPS?

Re:Your computer is not on UPS

[aaronl]

True enough about the start to shutdown thing, but some other indication may have been nice. At least they could put a little arrow on it, like in KDE, to signify that it's more than additional eye candy. It isn't a perfect solution, but it would be better than what Vista has now.

Unified UPS and laptop support explains the icon. It didn't occur to me, since I didn't find anything about my UPS in the new and not quite as useful control panel. The only mention of it that I found was in Device Manager. Again, something that actually told me what it was doing would've been nice. After all, while a UPS is battery power, much like a laptop, they are not the same, and are not intended to work quite the same. Being on battery power on my desktop machine means that something is very wrong. On a laptop, that is standard operation... the two need to be treated differently!

Re:Your computer is not on UPS

[tepples]

After all, while a UPS is battery power, much like a laptop, they are not the same, and are not intended to work quite the same. Being on battery power on my desktop machine means that something is very wrong. On a laptop, that is standard operation... the two need to be treated differently!

If you're on the last 15 minutes of battery power on your laptop, then something is also very wrong. So what's the difference between your UPS and the bottom of your laptop's battery?

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[tehcyder]

Only ask me if I really meant to do something if I am permanently deleting files

Wuss. Real men just take the risk of inadvertently deleting their whole filesystem and having to restore from backup.

"Manual duplex" != "Print on both sides of paper"

[DragonWriter]

I'd say the "manual duplex" one is also a really bad example: "Manual duplex" usually means "Print every other page on one side of paper so that the user can, when that is done, go to the printer, take the stack of printouts, put it back in the paper tray, and then press a button on either the the printer or computer to make the remaining pages print on the backs of the pages already printed". "Automatic duplex" usually means "Print on both sides of paper". I would argue that, where a printer or driver has built-in support for manual duplex printing (i.e., the whole job is sent, and the driver or printer manages the printing of one set, and then waits for user action to print the other set), "Manual duplex" is a reasonable description that could be accompanied by an appropriate tooltip, though "Print on both sides of paper" also with an appropriate tooltip wouldn't necessarily be too bad. Getting this right is especially is an issue in a heterogenous environment, where the options presented for a particular printer may be an important reminder for the user of what features the printer selected actually supports (in an environment where all the printers are the same or the user only has access to one printer, clearly this is less critical.)

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are...

[DragonWriter]

The average person who buys a printer with any kind of duplexing capability probably know what duplex means. For the user who doesn't, tooltips or "what's this?" buttons are probably better than verbose descriptions in the main interface, particularly

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are...

[DragonWriter]

Dangers of not using preview, that dangling "particularly". There was really nothing meant by it.

Because...

[DragonWriter]

...Microsoft wants its applications to "stand out" rather than blend into the mass of cookie-cutter applications for its OS. Distinctive look and feel is a method of product branding and identity; Microsoft wants everyone else's applications to simply reinforce Microsoft's OS branding, rather than standing out on their own. OTOH, they want their own applications that are separate products to distinguish themselves and have their own strong identity (and, indeed, they want third-party add-ons for those products to reinforce the application identity, not the OS identity.)

Re:Maybe they need a guide on how NOT to write gui

[DragonWriter]

Things that look like links shouldn't have accelerator keys because the default look of links hides the indicators that tell you that the item has an accelerator key. Except, things with the exact same look as links that act like buttons can have accelerator keys, that's okay, even though presumably their accelerators will be equally as obscure as those on real links would be. Um, yeah, look, if you want to have a consistent UI, (1) you don't impose functional rules (no access keys) based on looks (default underlining hides access keys) and then make exceptions for things that have the same looks, and (2) you make things that act like buttons look like buttons, and things that act like links look like links.

Re:Don't dumb it down. Not all your users are dumb

[Night Goat]

You should make a drinking game out of that. Turn on the computer and every time you come across one of those annoying features, take a drink. By the end, who cares?

Miss the point, get modded "Insightful!"

[Petersko]

"Mind your icons, not your buffer overflows. Great! Will exploits follow the Vista guidelines too ?"

You know, I looked and looked, but I fail to see the part where they say "Don't bother fixing the crashing bug". Allow me to quote again:

"Perception is reality, and if your customers don't experience quality in your product throughout, they may conclude there is lack of quality everywhere. A visual bug seen by all your customers might do more damage to your program's reputation than a rarely occurring crashing bug."

Yep. Pretty sure they aren't advising you to ignore the crashing bug. They're just saying that an in-your-face dumb graphical bug will make your program look amateurish.

Just like how modding somebody who misses the point "insightful" makes the moderator look amateurish.

What made me laugh

[glowingsnowball]

I hate microsoft as much as a person who is too lazy to run anything other then windows can be. I don't understand why Vista looks so much like Mac OS 10. Microsoft is easily the most evil company. Walmarts is on its heels for that title.

What about old apps?

[Aquila Deus]

Why do apps have to change everytime M$ makes a new theme??