1 Million Wii Units At Launch

Ars Technica is reporting on Nintendo's announcement that there will be 1 Million Wii units available at launch in the United States. Not only is that an impressive number of units, it's twice what the 360 launched with, and more than twice what Sony will be offering when it launches in the same month. From the article: "If Nintendo sells that many systems on the first day, and they turn a profit on every system sold, Nintendo is going to have some very rosy financials heading into the holiday season. If they're making money on systems as well as games, and gamers embrace the virtual console, this may be one of the most successful launches in gaming history. We'll see if they are able to deliver the numbers they're talking about here; a launch that large would be a major coup for Nintendo, and would give them a running start towards getting their systems into the homes of as many customers as possible." So, despite some disappointment at the later-than-hoped-for launch date, it looks like Nintendo is making good use of its time.

Comments

Nice!

[RyanFenton]

I just hope EB and other game stores will start taking preorders based on how many they expect to get soon. Hopefully one or two per customer.

Ryan Fenton

Re:Nice!

[musikit]

my guess is they wont allow preorders until they get the final list of release titles and accessories so they can "bundle" everything

Re:Nice!

[UbuntuDupe]

I thought pre-orders were basically a scam, in that it really doesn't guarantee that they will reserve one with your name on it, all while selling to people who did not pre-order. Hasn't that been the experience of most people who pre-order?

Re:Nice!

[VJ42]

Here in the UK shops are already taking pre-orders, and we launch after you in the states. (I wonder how many units we get).

Re:Nice!

[jferris]

Some FYE stores have started taking preorders. I preordered a Wii and Zelda: TP this past Saturday. Was in there for something else, and just happened to ask at the checkout.

Re:Nice!

[LunarCrisis]

I know the EBGames near me (Angrignon in Montreal) won't take pre-orders for the Wii. When I asked why, they said it was because they had too much trouble with the XB360 launch. Apparently, so many people had come back to return non-working consoles that they didn't have enough more non-reserved consoles to exchange them.

I am not making this up!

Re:Nice!

[dividedsky319]

Some FYE stores have started taking preorders.

The problem is, you're not guaranteed a system on the release date.

I preordered from Coconuts (owned by Trans World, same as FYE) a few weeks back and I was the fourth person to preorder. That means that I'm guaranteed the fourth system the store gets. However, they have no idea how many they'll get...

I did it just to be safe, but I'll also preorder from Gamestop once they begin taking preorders as well.

Re:Nice!

[_lost_ca]

I called the EBGames in Pointe-Claire (Fairview mall) and they said that they will probably start the pre-orders in mid-October. Anyways, pre-ordering somewhere else...

Re:Nice!

[jferris]

Understood. I just happened to be the first one who asked, so I am first on the list for that location. ;-) I preordered my Gamecube the same way, but through Sam Goody's. They actually had underestimated the number of units that they would get in. It is a crap shoot, for sure. But, the earlier you get in on it, the better the odds are.

Re:Nice!

[kannibal_klown]

I thought pre-orders were basically a scam, in that it really doesn't guarantee that they will reserve one with your name on it, all while selling to people who did not pre-order. Hasn't that been the experience of most people who pre-order?

My experiences at different stores:

• Whenever I've preordered something (anywhere) it's been held for me so I can get it release day (or afterwards).
• There have been times where I did not preorder and when I tried to pickup something on release day they refused, usually claiming that they only had enough stock to satisfy pre-orders. And I know they had them in stock because the guy next to me was able to pick his preorder up.

So it probably depends on the place. For me, I've seen the preorder system work the way it's "supposed" to from both ends.

Meanwhile, the XBox 360 launch was abysmal with preorders. Supposedly those that preordered very early on were given lower priority than those that purchased later (but purchased MORE games/controllers/etc), which is kind of lame. It should be first-come first-serve, not who spends the most.

Re:Nice!

[mj_sklar]

Are you sure about that? I was in there this past week to ask about pre-ordering the Wii, and they gave me the same answer as LunarCrisis got at Angrignon. The Toyr-R-Us across the , however, is taking pre-orders, says my friend who works there and has pre-ordered hers.

Re:Nice!

[mj_sklar]

street! street, damnit! Forgot to preview. That last line should have read:

"The Toyr-R-Us across the street, however, is taking pre-orders, says my friend who works there and has pre-ordered hers."

Re:Nice!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've definintely never seen a store sell units to people walking in without a pre order while shafting someone who did in fact pre order. They basically give you 48 hours to pick it up and after that they'll either call the next person in line or make it available for general sale. Unless the employees make some retarded mistake you will never be able to buy one unless all pre orders have been accounted for.

I didnt get my 360 preorder until late december because they were sold out that long, but it was still worth reserving it since they were impossible to find on store shelves near me until well after then anyway. (Yes, I *might* have been able to get one if I had nothing to do all day but check stores.) When they called they told me not to mention it by name, just to go to the counter and say I got a phone call. They brought it out of the back in an unmarked bag (not joking) because they said people were commonly getting hounded outside the store on their way to the cars. (Rich area, people offering them money for it, not stealing it.)

Re:Nice!

[hal2814]

I just hope I can walk into WalMart or Target on launch day and pick one up. With the Wii controller being a newish piece of hardware, I'm not buying a Wii anywhere that I can't box it up and take it back no questions asked if I don't like it. The controller may not work well or may just not be my cup of tea. After the PSP dead pixel policy, I'm not buying any new hardware from Gamestop/EB again. I'd hate to see some 45 degree motion rule for a flaky Wii controller.

Re:Nice!

[lubricated]

yeah, I had this happen for a game I ordered on amazon. Back when they were doing it through someone else.

Re:Nice!

[LordVader717]

Depends. There's a difference between the official pre-orders and unofficial one's. Most major retailers will do them. Then, the Unit is guaranteed by Nintendo to be delivered, and yous should be secured.

BTW, the official preorders haven't started yet, so anything you put down now is gambling on the retailers ability to secure the units.

Re:Nice!

[kahanamoku]

Unofficial pre-orders (depending on store) are typically entered into the system as gift vouchers. Since they dont have the product codes to assign the orders to and they have to assign it to something, gift vouchers are the easiest option.

Re:Nice!

[aichpvee]

I've always gotten my pre-ordered systems on launch day without problems. But this was before the 360 launch that taught all the game shop employees that it's cool and profittable to take pre-order systems for themselves and sell them on ebay. I'm so happy that Nintendo decided not to actually make their system affordable since now I don't have to worry about it.

Re:Nice!

[Mr.Dippy]

Was in there for something else, and just happened to ask at the checkout. You mean you were there for the standard $17.99 inflated priced music cd? You should try shopping online or at discount stores.

Re:Nice!

[jferris]

Actually, stopped in for a new set of headphones for my daily commute. Don't want to take my good set on public transportation, so stopped in and picked up a cheap pair of Coby's. Not bad for a $10 pair, by the way. ;-)

It's surprising really

[The MAZZTer]

Considering Nintendo is trying to be the most innovative, it's surprising that they're the only ones sticking to the classic business strategies to actually make money off of a product and to actually make an effort to meet demand.

Re:It's surprising really

[Chris Burke]

Being conservative and classical in their business management gives them the financial stability to be progressive and innovative in their console design. That's just how I see it.

Re:It's surprising really

[Rappy]

Considering the gaming climate in the past decade, launching with significant qualities is extremely innovative and bucks the trend.

Re:It's surprising really

[Hitto]

What's outdated about wanting to make a profit NOW, instead of "when third parties start shelling the cash" ;)

Re:It's surprising really

[ClamIAm]

So you have proof that Sony's losing money on PS3s? Oh wait, you'll probably pull out one of those bullshit prices made up by some "analyst" who knows nothing about manufacturing computer hardware.

Re:It's surprising really

[NekoXP]

Surprising?

Do you realise how hard it is to innovate when you're going bankrupt? :)

With a sound financial status and money rolling in, they can do whatever they damn well like, and even take some crazy risks with games, franchises and so on. A lot of people consider that Wind Waker was a risk; cutesy cell-shaded Zelda didn't gel with a lot of the fans. Maybe it didn't sell as many copies. Would they have done that if they really needed to make money off the franchise instead of try something a little new?

Personally I loved Wind Waker up to the point that it ran down the same path of every Zelda game (and most RPGs) which is to provide you with a great game up to the last 5%, and then make you play "running around a field for 8 days straight" or "sailing around the world for 8 days straight" before you can get to the last boss. I think it's a problem of having a great script and not pacing it properly; compare something like Metroid Prime 2 where you can go through the game and get all the weapons and artefacts fairly linearly, with a few diversions; you can see it but you can't get it, you know what weapon you need, you play the game some more, get that, and come straight back for it. At the end of the game when you get to the artefact temple you probably have all but one and just need a little hunt around.

Zelda Wind Waker.. guh.. you play the entire game picking everything up THEN it tells you to find a bazillion triforce parts which you had no ability to find before because the script says Tingle won't translate maps until a certain point, which you don't find out he even has that ability until well into your search. Infuriating. I never finished it, I just watched my little brother do it.

So maybe, also (getting to the point now) with a little more money and some higher development budgets and more time to mess around, they can get this right too :)

One thing that struck me as odd though. Why did they flip Twilight Princess for Wii? Isn't it a little odd to make the entire game backwards and Link right handed, so most people who use the controller can swing with their right hand, when there are obviously a great number of left-handed potential users out there? Are they just gonna have to buy the Gamecube version and use the Classic controller? :D

Virtual Console a Weakness

[Anonymous Coward]

Selling individual NES and SNES games is a mistake. There is no reason they cannot be bundling these into packs and selling them at $10 to $15 a pack.

I would never pay more than a buck for a digitally delivered NES game and not more than $2 to $2.50 for a SNES game.

Otherwise, I have nothing but love for the Wii so far and will probably buy one shortly after the second batch becomes available, provided no major problems crop up from the early adopter batch.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[mobiux]

I have to agree, i was hoping to get a "roll your own NES" package for like $30. Get your 15-20 favorite games for one price.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[dctoastman]

Depends on if I can save the game to an SD card or not. If I can "keep" the game and play it at someone else's house, then cool, if not, then eh.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[AuMatar]

On the other hand, I'm very willing to pay $5 to play some of my old favorites again. I'd probably pay twice that, but at $5 I'll try some games I otherwise wouldn't have. So I'm very happy.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Aladrin]

The Virtual Console obviously wasn't made with you in mind, then. There are -tons- of games that I wouldn't pay the $5-$10 for, but there are those few that I will. And that's all that matters.

It's the same with XBox 360 Marketplace games... Joust was well worth the 400 points to me. Gauntlet, too. But Street Fighter wasn't, so, and here's the surprise... I didn't buy it. -gasp-

Seriously, if you don't like it, don't fret it. If others don't like it either, they won't buy it, and Nintendo will know. But don't start thinking Nintendo doesn't know what they are doing. The price wasn't pulled out of a hat. They did a market study and decided that was the best price. At least for the launch.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Chris Burke]

The Virtual Console obviously wasn't made with you in mind, then. There are -tons- of games that I wouldn't pay the $5-$10 for, but there are those few that I will. And that's all that matters.

I certainly see where you're coming from, and I too will probably buy a few select games (though most of these games I have for my still-functional NES and SNES, may not be getting those either).

The thing is, for the "casual" gamer who may not have a long history with SNES and NES and who won't have a desperate urge to replay all the games they used to, $5 seems like a lot. It's hard to imagine someone browsing through these games and paying that much for an old NES game that they have no nostalgic memories of based on an 8-bit screenshot.

It just seems like the natural market for virtual console games is small, and to make it larger they're going to have to make it affordable to buy a few and try them.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Gulthek]

How many NES or SNES games did you have? My brothers and I had a couple dozen on each system. That's not too tough to recreate with Nintendo's current pricing.

Just think, for the price of an XBox 360 game you can get 12 NES games, 7 SNES games, or 6 N64 games. That seems pretty good to me.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[SoapDish]

In my opinion, the standard pack model is bad for consumers. There's always something you don't want in the pack, but you still have to pay for it, and it takes up space.

Custom packs are a little better, because you don't get any of the games you don't want. But if it's a 5-game pack, and you want 6 games, you've got to get 4 more games that you wouldn't have bought otherwise.

Then you have to consider that getting games in packs only gives marginal savings (especially custom packs - extra infrastructure costs). Considering they're selling individual games at $5, if they were going to use bundles, I doubt they'd go as low as $3 a game.
---

Also, don't forget that setting all this up actually costs them money. They've got to pay for all the equipment (servers, etc.), the labour of setting up the equipment, maintenance on the equipment, development and bug testing of the emulators (more than just one) and the menu system, graphic designing, and implementing the purchasing system.

I'd also think that the other companies that hold rights to the games would like some money for making them available on virtual console, so you've also got to pay them, and track how many units of each game are sold.

I think $5 is very reasonable.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[ifrag]

I can see maybe $5 for a fully working, fully translated copy of Star Ocean. I really doubt Nintendo plans on any such thing, especially considering the game never was imported in the first place.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's hard to imagine someone browsing through these games and paying that much for an old NES game that they have no nostalgic memories of based on an 8-bit screenshot."

You might be suprised. I know word of mouth works well and there are also people who read about something and try it. I know I wish I still had my NES as there were a large number of games I would like to play right now, but I also heard of different games on the N64 and the SNES that I never even saw that I will buy just for the chance to play.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[ElleyKitten]

Depends on if I can save the game to an SD card or not. If I can "keep" the game and play it at someone else's house, then cool, if not, then eh.

I want to save it to an SD card or whatever and stick it in my DS or the next Game Boy. That would be sweet.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[ElleyKitten]

I can see maybe $5 for a fully working, fully translated copy of Star Ocean. I really doubt Nintendo plans on any such thing, especially considering the game never was imported in the first place.

Or Terranigma! At least that game's in English so they wouldn't have to translate it.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Chris Burke]

How many NES or SNES games did you have? My brothers and I had a couple dozen on each system. That's not too tough to recreate with Nintendo's current pricing.

About 50 NES games and about a dozen SNES. I still have most of them and my SNES and NES still work. I can count on both hands the games that I ever actually play anymore from those systems. Assume that I want the convenience of having them on my main game console rather than having to screw around blowing in the NES. That still puts me, a pretty hard-core gamer with a lot of Big N history and nostalgia, at buying maybe half a dozen Virtual Console games.

Just think, for the price of an XBox 360 game you can get 12 NES games, 7 SNES games, or 6 N64 games. That seems pretty good to me.

But people with access to the Virtual Console will be buying Wii games, so the purchasing decision would be between a Wii game or 10 NES games. If I didn't know that certain NES games were and still are awesome, I would almost certainly go with the modern game. I wouldn't pay $5 for a random NES title I'd never heard of, no way. I'm not convinced the "casual" gamers would either, given that NES games will look primitive compared to the Flash or even cell phone games they've probably poked at.

Still the opportunity cost for N seems a little low. If they don't flood the VC with all the piles of crap ever produced for Nintendo systems (no Deadly Towers, no Superman 64), then maybe they can make the risk for the consumer low enough that they'll feel $5 is worth it.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[KDR_11k]

A potential probem with that plan is that the DS has a lower resolution screen than most of the consoles used.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[poot_rootbeer]

If they don't flood the VC with all the piles of crap ever produced for Nintendo systems (no Deadly Towers, no Superman 64), then maybe they can make the risk for the consumer low enough that they'll feel $5 is worth it.

I've had just about enough of your "Deadly Towers"-bashing, young man.

DT is not a BAD game, just a mediocre one. I could easily name a dozen NES titles which were an order of magnitude worse, and that's not even counting anything by Color Dreams.

I mean, I wouldn't spend $2 to get it on the Virtual Console, but it's not nearly as awful as SeanBaby makes it out to be.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[MBGMorden]

Downsample the image. It might look bad for certain games that are text heavy, but a lot of them would probably work just fine.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[KDR_11k]

You can most likely store it on the SD card. That doesn't mean you can use it on any other system, especially since SD cards were designed around DRM.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[dctoastman]

Well, so far they get a potential "half a cool" then. :D

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Chris Burke]

DT is not a BAD game, just a mediocre one. I could easily name a dozen NES titles which were an order of magnitude worse, and that's not even counting anything by Color Dreams.

I disagree. DT is a terrible game. No it isn't the worst NES game, in particular because unlike a lot of the truly shitty NES games, the makers of Deadly Towers seem to have been trying to make a good game. Instead they made one of the most annoying, frustrating, and utterly pointless RPG/adventures I've ever seen. Perhaps it's that obvious attempt with failed delivery that makes the suckiness of DT that much more poignant.

Or maybe it was the fact that I traded Spy Hunter for Deadly Towers, and regretted the decision within a couple of weeks. I'd sure be a lot more likely to dust off Spy Hunter and jiggle it around in my NES until it worked than I would Deadly Towers. And I wouldn't pay money for the chance to play DT again, unless it was $0.25 for 30 seconds, more than long enough to "show off" the game to a friend.

Speaking of games SeanBaby has made fun of and I've played, Athena isn't the worst NES game ever, but is still extremely bad, for a lot of the same reasons as Deadly Towers.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[grumbel]

A potential probem with that plan is that the DS has a lower resolution screen than most of the consoles used.

The SNES and most other early consoles have a resolution of 256×224 (varies here and there, but that one seems to be most widespread), the DS has two screens with 256x192, so it shouldn't be to much of an issue, especially considering that many games use some of the vertical space for HUD and not for the game itself (HUD could go to the second screen on DS). There of course are games were things get problematic with the DS, since it simply has quite a lot less power then a Wii, but since the emulated games are hand-picked anyway it shouldn't be an issue, since the DS doesn't need to function as a 100% compatible SNES emulator.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Josiah_Bradley]

I myself own over 50 classic NES titles and about 20 SNES and N64 titles and a couple Gamecube games as well as some Sega Genisis games. Shouldn't there be at least a discount for those of us who already purchased these games at retail prices years ago? I know of at least 20 games for the NES I want to play again without having to fix my NES, but at around 100$ to do so it would be cheaper to re-build my old consoles. I'm more than happy paying for the bandwidth as some of those n64 games are huge, but another 5-10$ for a 30-50$ game?? just to play it again on the same TV? I love the idea and will most likely pay for everything again just feels so wrong. On another note it is legal for me to play my legally bought games on an emulator for free on my TV with upsampling and better graphics.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Minced]

The N64 games aren't THAT large in all honesty. They range in size of 8MB (64Mb) - 32 MB (256Mb). Seriously its not THAT much when you consider how large PATCHES for games like WoW and BF2 are.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[reanjr]

This is where I see people totally missing the point of DRM. By enabling DRM, Nintendo has the opportunity to allow you to play it on a different console without worrying about you copying it for your friend. Not saying they will necessarily do that, but the possibility is there where it is not without DRM because almost no companies would allow you to do that.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[reanjr]

I plan on using this to replace all my NES, SNES, and N64 games that I have lying around. I still have a working NES and SNES but not enough inputs on my TV or outlets to plug in to all of the various things I have. Virtual Console, if and when they release the right games and make them available in perpetuity, will enable me to finally get rid of my old systems and clean up my entrtainment center.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Anonymous Coward]

My hope for the Virtual Console is that it has at least as many features as modern emulators. I'm talking about Netplay, anti-aliasing, video filters, fast forward/slomo, save states (especially useful for old NES/SNES games that didn't have a save feature), and other features emulators pack in. In most cases, the game looks and plays better on my PC than it did on the original system.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[Aladrin]

There's a price point at which you won't make more money if you sell more items cheaper. Virtual Console games are probably priced right because those who want retro games will gladly pay the $5 or $10, but those who don't want them... There's no price low enough that they'd buy them. No matter what.

My nephews for instance... They are half my age and never owned any console before the PSX. They simply will not care about 99.9% of the games before that point. There's a few series that still exist today (Final Fantasy) that they -may- decide they want to try since they are such good games today. But I still doubt it.

I believe their prices are right on the money. They won't make more money by selling them cheaper.

Re:Virtual Console a Weakness

[miro f]

unfortunately, nintendo are protecting their games with some proprietry DRM so that you'll only be able to play the game on one Wii console.

As for playing on the DS, there are plenty of homebrew NES/SNES/etc emulators for the DS if you're willing to put out some money for a supercard or alternative.

998,234 units sit on store shelves for a month?

[davidwr]

Let's hope not.

1 million is good

[dctoastman]

So there should be one for me in there somewhere. You guys can fight over the other 999,999.

Re:1 million is good

[Phisbut]

So there should be one for me in there somewhere. You guys can fight over the other 999,999.

The summary is off by a couple (tens? hundreds?) units though. It's not 1 million for USA, it's 1 million for North America, which means they'll send maybe 100k to Canada and 2 or 3 to Mexico. USA ain't alone in America.

Re:1 million is good

[dctoastman]

And I'm sure that I will be able to get one of the 1 million coming to NA, leaving the rest of the continent to fight over the other 999,999.
I really don't care about how they are distributed, as long as one gets distributed my way.

Really though, way to kill a lame joke with accusations of nationalism.

Re:1 million is good

[Anonymous Coward]

That joke was dead at birth.

God damn

[rob1980]

That's a lot of Wii.

EB/Gamestop

[elmCitySlim]

EB/Gamestop's policy (in certain areas) on trade-in only pre-orders is baffling. Thats a terrible deal and I hope no one buys into this rip-off.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[Klowner]

It's only in Hawaii, everyone hates it. When it's time for them to take nation-wide pre-orders I think we can assume that their stores would be torched if they did such a thing.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[MBCook]

Bull. I wish that was true, but I don't think it is. I went into my local Gamestop this weekend (in Kansas) and was told that they weren't taking orders yet (check back start of October) but that they expect to be told to use that exact same "you must trade in $50 of stuff" policy. I'm going to talk to the manager of the store if that turns out true and they will lose my (rather lucrative) business if they insist on doing that. I'm already mad they won't take pre-orders (they've been doing it on the PS3 for like a year now), but to put such a stupid (and hard to meet) restriction on will cost them my business. I'll just go to Target next door and camp out for an hour or two if I have to.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[Anonymous Coward]

Trade in only preorders?

They usually offer a lousy trade-in "discount" on new systems when they come out around here (nobody with at least half their brain still functioning falls for it though), but the way you make it sound, it's mandatory where you live?

If so, that's pretty much crap and I'd have to choose never to buy from them again. EB and Gamestop are already terrible at managing pre-orders, the last thing they need to do is make it hard, unreliable AND a lousy economic decision.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm already mad they won't take pre-orders (they've been doing it on the PS3 for like a year now)

That's an interesting statement, as the POS terminals do not yet have SKUs to pre-order against. The annual EB/Gamestop store managers meeting is coming up soon so we'll know exactly what's going on with the PS3/Wii pre-orders next week.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[MBCook]

They aren't pre-orders, but they are almost as good as. They were taking names and numbers. When they were able to officially pre-order they would call people on the list from the top to the bottom, giving out pre-orders to those people who still wanted it (and would pay).

Re:EB/Gamestop

[pat_trick]

That's pretty much what I ended up doing. I walked a few weeks ago to both an EB and a Gamestop, and asked if I could pre-order a Wii.

They said they were taking pre-orders starting the following Monday, and that you were required to bring in $50 worth of trade-ins to get your pre-order. The employee behind the counter specifically stated that they wouldn't be taking any cash or card--trade-ins only.

I promptly told the employees at both stores that I'd be taking my business elsewhere from that point forward.

FYI, I live in Hawaii as well.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[ChildeRoland]

Shawnee Mission Pkwy. Huh? You could always go to the WalMart across the street, they're open 24/7 so you won't have to wait till morning to get yours.

Re:EB/Gamestop

[MBCook]

Close, but no cigar.

demand

[the computer guy nex]

"Considering Nintendo is trying to be the most innovative, it's surprising that they're the only ones sticking to the classic business strategies to actually make money off of a product and to actually make an effort to meet demand."

It also has a lot to do with the hardware - the Wii is an incredibly similar system to the Gamecube architecture-wise. The components are also cheaper and easier to produce.

Re:demand

[frosty_tsm]

Too bad the controller is ridiculously expensive though.

Re:demand

[StocDred]

Hey, the wireless 360 controller is $50, and that doesn't include a built-in speaker or a tiny bit of memory to hold your player data. So it seems like Nintendo is pretty much right in line, with their $40 remote + $20 nunchuk. I'm sure we all wish everything was less expensive.

Re:demand

[RobDogAlpha]

Why does everyone forget the massive R&D for the Wiimote and the production costs for it and the motion sensor bar?

Re:demand

[poot_rootbeer]

Why does everyone forget the massive R&D for the Wiimote and the production costs for it and the motion sensor bar?

1. Because acknowledging those costs would prevent certain fanboys from being able to declare the Wii as a "slightly upgraded GameCube";

2. Because Nintendo already ate those costs, so game developers will not have to. From a dev's perspective, authoring a Wii game should be very similar to authoring a Cube game; the same will not be true about PS2 vs. PS3. Being able to code effectively for the Cell will require developers to invest a LOT of their own money, and I don't just mean the cost of the devkit.

Re:demand

[hal2814]

Just because the 360's wireless costs $50 doesn't mean we have to be happy about paying $60 for a Wii controller. If anything keeps me from wanting to buy this console at launch, it will be waiting until the controller gets cheaper. You can be happy about paying $50 for a wireless glorified Sidewinder if you want. I'll be happy when I can get a Wii controller and nunchuck for $35-$40. Wii Sports looks like it would be rather dull as a 1 player set of games but $60 is a lot.

Re:demand

[Chris Burke]

Wii Sports looks like it would be rather dull as a 1 player set of games but $60 is a lot.

It looks like Wii Sports, and possibly a lot of multi-player and party games, won't require the nunchuck attachment. So I think you can get the needed extra controllers for Wii Sports for $40.

I agree though that $60 is a lot. I understand the controller may be pretty sophisticated as controllers go, but that doesn't make $60 less than $60. I was really hoping for 2 controllers in the bundle... If my speculation about multiplayer games and the nunchuck is true, then it would have made sense to include two wiimotes and one nunchuck in the bundle. Give the buyer the controllers needed to enjoy Wii Sports, and demonstrate that the wiimote and nunchuck are separate with the latter not always needed.

But we'll see if that turns out to be true. If most multiplayer games do need the nunchuck (any mp fps game would, I would assume), then that will be expensive.

Re:demand

[clontzman]

Why does everyone forget the massive R&D for the Wiimote and the production costs for it and the motion sensor bar?

Why does everyone presume that there was a massive R&D effort for the remote controller? I don't doubt that there was some significant effort involved, but it's not like no one's ever done anything like this before. MS had a tilt controller way back when, Gyration mice (in whom Nintendo is a major investor) have tilt functionality... there's some interesting technology there, but I'm not convinced it took the videogame equivalent of the Manhattan Project to get it all working.

With a Gamecube priced at about $100 (if not less), I think Nintendo has plenty of room in the $250 cost of the Wii to make up for the sensor bar, the remote and the moderately improved processor and graphics chipset.

Re:demand

[Cadallin]

Yeah, I mean, if you have to buy 3 more controllers to play 4-player multiplayer, the Wii is $490! That's more expensive than a 360 and almost enough for the PS3!

Oh, wait, except you're getting a console, a game, and four wireless controllers for that price. For my Xbox, that would run a grand total of $600 + a game. $700+ for a PS3 and controllers.

$60 is $60, but seriously people, at launch a Gamecube + 3 controllers would have run, what $320 for system + four corded controllers? It's not that bad. Get over it.

Are you seriously saying you couldn't get by on $300 for a Wii + Twilight Princess? Because I know that's going to tide me over for a while. I'm reminded of two Penny-Arcade comics:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/09/15

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25

Unlike the low-end 360 and PS3, a Wii is actually functional right out of the box. You can even *gasp* save your games without buying anything else.

Re:demand

[rohlfinator]

Microsoft is also trying to recoup the losses from selling their console below cost. That's why their prices are so high compared to the current generation. The 360's Wi-Fi adapter at $100 is a prime example of that.

Nintendo is allegedly selling their console at a profit, so they don't really have any reason for the controllers to be out of line with the WaveBird, which debuted at $35. (Assuming that the Wiimote + nunchuk costs about the same as the WaveBird to produce, which seems to be the case.)

Comparing accessory prices to the 360 isn't very accurate, as Microsoft's business model with the 360 is very unusual in the console industry.

Re:demand

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, I mean, if you have to buy 3 more controllers to play 4-player multiplayer, the Wii is $490!

Which is a lot of money. The base console is $250, and you've basically doubled that price so you can play Mario Party the way it was intended.

Yeah, it's about the same as an Xbox or Ps3 without anything else, but I'm not buying either of those consoles exactly because they cost so much. I don't give a fuck if I could get a Wii, seven controllers, eight copies of Zelda, and a jewel encrusted chalice for the price of a PS3; the PS3 price is crazy, so "about the same price as PS3" isn't exactly a great argument for how cheap something is!

$60 is a lot for an extra controller, especially if the idea is you're trying to attract people with your low priced console. A family on a budget that wants their three kids to be able to play at once is going to be put off by a $250 price tag now turned $330-$370. That's all there is to it, comparisons to other consoles notwithstanding.

I'm reminded of two Penny-Arcade comics:

You seem to be mistaking me for the guy in the PS3 hat in that amusing PA comic.

This is amusing too, because I'm a big Nintendo fan* who is going to be buying a Wii and nothing else this generation, and wrong, because I did not and am not trying to compare the price to the PS3 or any other console.

Oh, and you seem to have missed the point of the second comic. You seem to think it's something like "complaining about having to pay for accessories to play a game is dumb". Actually, the point was that the GBA is something like 1,000 times more popular than the Gamecube, so requiring a GBA is like requiring a house, or clothing, or friends -- they're things you should already have, not extra expenses. To quote Tycho: "The fact of the matter is that it's going to be much harder to find a GameCube than it is to find four people who own GBAs".

* The difference between a fan and a fanboy is that while both are highly enamored with whatever it is they are fan[boy]s of, the fan is able to recognize flaws, failings, and weaknesses while the fanboy blows them off and ignores them as though it were an emotional imperative. For example, a Nintendo fanboy might blow off the high price of an extra controller by saying that you'd have to buy four more controllers to approach the price of a PS3 which he never intended to buy anyway.

Re:demand

[IpalindromeI]

Nintendo is allegedly selling their console at a profit, so they don't really have any reason for the controllers to be out of line with the WaveBird

Oh great, here we go again.

Assuming that the Wiimote + nunchuk costs about the same as the WaveBird to produce

Maybe there's something a bit different about these controllers that make them more expensive. Something else that they can do. What could it be?

Re:demand

[Cadallin]

Here's the thing, looking this deeply into the economics of a form of entertainment is going to be disheartening. It's pretty much always going to turn out that you're spending a lot of money to do the things you enjoy. If four controllers are too expensive for you, don't buy them (I mean, most of have to make decisions and trade-offs about the things we buy, right?). I won't until there's a fairly significant amount of compelling gameplay out there to justify it, and even then it might be pretty iffy, as historically I haven't played that many 4-player games. No matter how you slice it, the Wii is going to be much less expensive than any other comparable console setup. And you know what? That extra $200 for the family with 3 kids is going to be least of the expenses they incur because of having too many damn kids (and if they're having that much trouble, maybe they shouldn't have had them in the first place, kids are expensive, its not like this should be a suprise to anybody). They may be turned off by it, and they're welcome to go the competition, who will be happy to take twice as much money, or more.

Let's face it, there's a lot of stuff in the controllers in the first place. Such that I can easily see where my money is going when I buy one. There may be a good $10 in profit for Nintendo there, but I don't begrudge them that. Does that make me irrational? Mario Party and the other Nintendo party games are, once you work in their specific costs, some of the more expensive titles out there. Probably a good $75-$80 once you account for the necessary accessories divided between them.

Re:demand

[Chris Burke]

They may be turned off by it, and they're welcome to go the competition, who will be happy to take twice as much money, or more.

Who cares? Yes the other consoles are more, but stop thinking about it in terms of the console wars for two seconds, and actually think about that family that can barely afford their three kids and want to get them something for christmas. It isn't a choice between the Wii and the Xbox 360, it's a choice between the Wii and something that isn't a console. It's great that you think people who don't want to pay an extra $60 per controller just shouldn't have had the kid who needs a controller in the first place, that's really nice. Regardless, people are in this situation and they have kids and a limited budget. Of course they know kids are expensive; this is why they have a limited budget for gifts in the first place. The price of controllers may put the Wii outside that budget. That's an issue, ignore it if you want to, but it exists.

Let's face it, there's a lot of stuff in the controllers in the first place.

Which I acknowledged in the first post you replied to. That doesn't make the $60 controller any cheaper, it just means they aren't blatantly gouging you. This doesn't make the controller more affordable. That's all I'm saying. You can make whatever justification you want, compare it to anything you want, but $60 is a lot to be able to let one other person play with you.

Re:demand

[Anonymous Coward]

ok, I just have to say this, but think about us europeans. We don't have to pay 250$ for the console and 60$ for a controller, BUT the same price in Euros. That makes 360$ for console and roughly 80$ for a controller, so think about that before you think it's god damn expensive in the U.S. So how about the poor people here?

Re:demand

[Chris Burke]

That makes 360$ for console and roughly 80$ for a controller, so think about that before you think it's god damn expensive in the U.S. So how about the poor people here?

That sucks for sure. You guys always get shafted that way, too.

Re:demand

[|/|/|||]

You lost me with your math. $490? If you're adding in some extra stuff beyond the console and controllers, you should have noted it, because otherwise it looks like you added wrong.

Base console = $250
3 extra wiimotes x $40 = $120
3 extra nunchucks x $20 = $60
Grand total= $430

Or, more realistically, $370 since you probably don't need those extra nunchucks for multiplayer, at least not with the launch software that I've seen described. I'll buy a couple of games, 1 extra wiimote, and some component cables, and I expect to still pay far less than $490.

One million

[Trillan]

I'm actually a little surprised that one million is anywhere near enough.

Re:One million

[dolson]

Nobody said it was enough, they just said that it was more. Of course it won't be enough. I'm counting on it, so for the first time in the history of.. me, I will be standing overnight in a lineup for a release of a product.

Re:One million

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just for the launch. They'll probably have a lot more, and soon, to cope with the xmas rush.

Still, it probably won't sell out everywhere, a million is a lot. Personally, there's no way I'm buying something with an experimental control setup without trying it first, so I'm probably not getting one just yet.

Re:One million

[slaida1]

I will be standing overnight in a lineup for a release of a product.

Why? It's only a mass produced ordinary product it's not your bregnant wife delivering your first baby. It's not your close relative in bed dying. It's not first meal for a week nor is it first sip of fresh water for many days. Nor is it jackpot lottery winnings, no it's you who are losing money, you who's losing dignity and good nights sleep and it's you who is still looking vain no matter how many other people there are waiting for their latest fix of stuff.

Coz being good gets you stuff and stuff makes you good.

Re:One million

[dolson]

I don't know what your comment has to do with anything, but you don't know me. My family would obviously come first. However, my wife is not pregnant, so far nobody in my family is on their death bed, and I don't play the lottery.

If you're bitching me out because I am not in a starving country and have budgeted my income according to my lifestyle, then what are you doing on the internet posting comments on Slashdot when you could be out working a job to get a paycheck to buy your food and water?

Re:One million

[slaida1]

Because those things are the first things that come to my mind that could make me stand overnight in line outside and not sleep comfortably in my bed. But then again, I rate sleep very high in my priorities. And I hate any kind of queues, it makes me feel like I'm sheeple. If I can't get something without standing in a line, I rather be without.

But, as you said, I don't know you. You want that stuff so bad or value comfort so little or something else that you don't mind some effort to get it first.

Correction...

[mabba18]

1 Million units in North America for launch says Rob Bertram, Nintendo of Canada's Vice President

of course they are making a profit

[llZENll]

"If Nintendo sells that many systems on the first day, and they turn a profit on every system sold"

All signs point to Nintendo making a huge profit on each Wii, I wouldn't be surpised with a sub $100 manufacturing cost of the Wii. All of the controllers included probably adds another $50 or so.

1) Nintendos long track record and massive experience with console manufacturing
2) Highly available and proven components, DVD, 802.11, flash memory, SD memory, USB 2.0
3) Dialed back CPU and GPU specs.

specs:
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6146540/index.htm l?tag=subnav;about

Re:of course they are making a profit

[masklinn]

All signs point to Nintendo making a huge profit on each Wii, I wouldn't be surpised with a sub $100 manufacturing cost of the Wii. All of the controllers included probably adds another $50 or so.

No onne knows how much profit they make, but it'd be surprising if they made "a huge profit on each Wii". A profit yes, they said so and they did it with every console of theirs, but if their profit was so huge they wouldn't risk their market by princing the pack at $250/250

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6146540/index.h tm l?tag=subnav;about

Oh, look, we still don't know anything about the hardware...

Re:of course they are making a profit

[Anonymous Coward]

All signs point to Nintendo making a huge profit on each Wii, I wouldn't be surpised with a sub $100 manufacturing cost of the Wii. All of the controllers included probably adds another $50 or so.

Well ... I highly doubt that ...

Perrin Kaplin (Nintendo's VP of Marketing) claimed that the Wii would be breaking even on hardware costs and would be a system which was profitable from the start because of game sales. She could be lying but I would assume she would not stretch the truth too much. We know that a year into the development of the Wii (in about 2002) Nintendo decided to switch directions from producing a "super powerful" system to a system that required far less power and still performed well; one of the turning points was when they saw how much less power the Gamecube would require (which lead to the system being on 24 hours a day)

"When we were struggling to reduce the power consumption, there was a point in time when we simulated how power consumption would change in existing devices if we applied cutting-edge semiconductor technology to them. In the case of the GameCube, we discovered that the power consumption could be reduced to between one-third and one-quarter of the consumption of the GameCube's semiconductors. I was really impressed with these results. Of course, I was surprised by the data itself ..."

We know that the Wii requires 80% of the power of the Gamecube so one can assume that it is not a repackaged gamecube as some people would have you belive. The system is produced by IBM, using the same process as was used with the PowerPC970 (G5), at the same time the G5 would have been in development so it is possibly a low speed (1.5 GHz) G5 based system; although it would be inexpensive, it would still cost money to produce.

Re:of course they are making a profit

[poot_rootbeer]

if their profit was so huge they wouldn't risk their market by princing the pack at $250/250

If they think 1 million Wiis will sell out at launch at a $250 pricepoint, they'd be fools to make the launch price lower than that, regardless of how large their profit margin is.

If demand starts to wane after a while, they can reduce the price to $200 and still make a profit on every unit. Until then, they've just made at least $50 million off the early adopters that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Re:of course they are making a profit

[Anonymous Coward]

There's an interesting problem there -- if you go in to a store, and you see two supposedly equivalent items (say cookware sets), but one is $500 and the other is $150, which do you think is better with no other input? If the costs are $300 (Xbox 360 lame edition) or $250, and you don't know WTF you are looking at (Grandma Smith looking for little Bobby's present), there isn't as much of a difference. It's a common thing with consulting -- you can price yourself out of the market by being too cheap. If you are offering consulting services for $100/hr, but your competitors in the same market are all at $50, you're overpriced. However, if you reverse it -- you're charging $50/hr, but all your competitors are at $100/hr, you have the same result -- nobody will pay you because you've underrated yourself. It's a nasty cycle, and there have been millions of trees killed by economists trying to describe this quantitatively.

Re:of course they are making a profit

[KDR_11k]

Depends on how fast demand drops. Generally your customers will feel screwed if you drop the price early, they might even get the idea that your product failed to live up to expectations and you're desperate. If you drop the price one month after launch expect a mob with torches and pitchforks on your threshold.

Re:of course they are making a profit

[drsquare]

Perrin Kaplin (Nintendo's VP of Marketing) claimed that the Wii would be breaking even on hardware costs

Well she's not going to come out and say they're making huge markups on it is she?

Re:of course they are making a profit

[geminidomino]

You might get the impression that the $500 cookware set is better than the $150, but unless you're a "hardcore" cook or have money to burn, you're probably going to opt for the $150 set anyway.

Besides that, you've got the fact that to Joe Average, the idea paying $4-600 for a video game system is probably a cause of dyspepsia. Those who *know* video games already know the difference between the 360, PS3, and the Wii, and price isn't the only factor in their decision

Re:of course they are making a profit

[DDLKermit007]

Well if you look at things this way...Nintendo at the very least makes $1 per Wii vs Sony who takes anywhere from a $200-$300 hit per PS3. Thats a hell of a profit to a board of investors. $1 million in profit out of the gate at least, plus every game thereafter being very profitable.

Copy ROM to SD

[Anonymous Coward]

How long will this take? Im guessing one week at the most.

Re:Copy ROM to SD

[KDR_11k]

I'm guessing it's possible immediately. You remember that SD cards have built in DRM support?

Re:Copy ROM to SD

[Anonymous Coward]

You remember that SD cards have built in DRM support?

You remember that SD (Secure Digital) cards have built in DRM support?

There, fixed your "explanation" for you. ;-)

With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[WillAffleckUW]

Does that mean that we can get Japanese games for our Nintendo Wii and not worry about region-encoding?

Or will we have to wait until March before they let us buy those in Seattle?

Re:With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[KDR_11k]

Information about that is conflicting, I'd guess if you're in America you're free to import what you want but if you're in Europe you're screwed, as always.

Re:With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[WillAffleckUW]

Information about that is conflicting, I'd guess if you're in America you're free to import what you want but if you're in Europe you're screwed, as always.

Well, since I'm in Seattle, that's cool. I can see why region encoding might matter in Europe. A Japanese or Chinese game frequently will have a (primitive) US English dialog choice, except for cut-scenes and other chrome, but in Europe they tend to want the base language plus English (e.g. in France you get French and English).

I bought a whole bunch of Nintendo GameBoy Pokemon games in France, and we always had to use different cartridges, or we could mess up the encoding when we stored them. But they still worked.

Re:With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[elrous0]

There is also the issue of PAL vs. NTSC video formats. U.S. and Japan both use NTSC. Europe and Australia use PAL. This can be problematic.

-Eric

Re:With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[KDR_11k]

Not that it matters since all PAL TVs can display NTSC just fine. I'm guessing it's because Nintendo of Europe complained as they offer the shittiest service of all three major regions by delaying all games for months and charging 50% extra. If Europeans were free to import games NoE's sales would drop significantly because it's not only faster to import, it's cheaper than buying local even with shipping and customs added. Granted, non-English speaking people might not do that but the entire UK speaks English and large parts of the rest of Europe have learned English in school and could probably understand an import game. I mean, hell, I play japanese games with little trouble and I can't even read their alphabet!

Re:With 3 Wiis for every PS3

[DDLKermit007]

It's possible that the "region coding" with the Wii will be TV based. Euope TVs generaly run PAL vs US & Japan who run NTSC. I at least am keeping my fingers crossed in that regard (any praying for no region locking). Yes I know it's just a bit that decides PAL or NTSC (anyone with a moded xbox should know this), but Nintendo can fuck up on a minor issue like this. I'd probably think a bit differently however if I was in Europe.

Weak Launch Line-up

[Anonymous Coward]

I was really eager about Wii since E3, but the launch line-up has me "able" to just wait. The only must have game is Zelda. Maybe ExciteTruck for kicks (but I don't expect to enjoy it any more than I did Wave Race Blue Storm).

What about accessories?

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people are going to want to buy a second controller. How many of those are going to be available at launch?

It has to be said;

[tapehands]

-drool-

I know it's redundant to say, but this article makes me very excited about the Wii.

However, for a slice of reality, it's not $200 like we all wish it would have been. We'll probably have to spend well over $100 on accessories at launch (almost $60 for an additional Wiimote+nunchuck, $20 for each classic remote, and however much you want to splurge on additional flash memory). And depending on how the Wii system is set up, it may/may not be easy to find your friends and take over the world.

But Sweet Jesus. 1 million at launch is good for us AND Nintendo.

Toys R Us?

[brunes69]

Why not just pre-order it elsewhere?

I know the Toys R us here (Nb Canada) has been taking pre-orders for the Wii since late spring, before it was even *called* the "Wii" (basically they had "Revolution" then they stuck a Wii sticker over the sign later!). I think they were just taking a $100 deposit or something like that.

It's not like EB/Gamestop is the only place you can buy video game systems.

Number of Wiis per store

[Gamingboy]

I decided to do some math to determine how many Wiis there would be per store if every store in North America that I could find store figures for got the same amount of wiis.

So here's the math:
4,500 Gamestop/EB Games (some outside of North America)
3,256 Wal-Marts (USA stats only)
90 Rhino Video Games
786 Best Buys (US and Canada)
118 Future Shops (Canada)
32 Fry's Electronics (US)
635 Circuit Cities (US)
1447 Targets (US)
700 Toys 'r' Us (US stats only)
1 Nintendo World (New York City)

To come out with 11,565 possible Launch stores in North America. Of course, this doesn't include smaller chains and family owned businesses, but the results that will come from 1,000,000/11565 should give us a rough estimate on how many Wii's will be available at Launch in most stores.

It comes out at about 86 Wiis per store if we were to only include those chains. Of course, there will not be 86 wiis available at your local Wal-Mart in Hicksville, USA (or Canada), but it's nice to know that, if Wii distribution were communist, every major store would have 86 of them.

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[LoverOfJoy]

Don't forget amazon.com and amazon.ca. A ton will go to online outlets, I'd imagine.

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, canadians have Walmarts too, eh!

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[ClamIAm]

I don't think you were paying attention in social studies class very well. If Wiis were distributed in a Communist fashion, areas that have bigger demand would receive more. So um, "to each according to his Wii". Or something.

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[Headcase88]

Well, I don't think you were paying attention to the GP's post very well. Take it, GP.

"Of course, there will not be 86 wiis available at your local Wal-Mart in Hicksville, USA (or Canada)"

Plus I'm not sure that we're in communist countries but the point stands (better so) in a capitalist system anyway ;)

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[rAiNsT0rm]

mmmm... Wii Communists.

I actually wanted to respond because your post is the closest thing I've ever seen to real analysis of the videogame market that I have personally seen on a website/forum.

I used to work in the industry and handled analysis as well as retail relations and I always find it funny how many armchair analysts and experts are on the web. And woe-be-me if I try to talk real sense and numbers... all you get are "STFU Show me links!!!" or other such nonsense. I've all but given up trying to even talk sense about videogames online, but jorb well done to you!

Re:Number of Wiis per store

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, there are plenty of store unfortunately missing in that list. A few that jump to my mind right away (note: I'm in Canada) are The Bay, Zellers, Microplay. Also, don't forget about the bazillion (give or take) video/game rental stores like Blockbuster that will get at least a couple of them on day 1.

Nintendo Customer Service

[DocBoss]

Well nintendo doesn't screw over their customers like sony does. When I had a DS with 1 dead pixel I sent it in to nintendo and they replaced it.

OT: PP Sig

[jthill]

You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different

E S S D E N E E NW. It just popped into my head. Talk about setting the hook deep!