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Quantum Leaps in RPGs
Gamasutra has up an article, giving out 'awards' to titles that made a genre what it is. Today, they have memorable and impactful role-playing games; a top five with five honorable mentions. They're all very worthy titles, but I'm not sure about their placement on the list. None of the Ultima games make the top 5? Really? From the article: "Ultima V - The Ultima series allowed the player a level of freedom found only in a few games today. Through the origins of the series, the game had fits and starts where some ideas worked and others did not. By V, however, the central core of the game was completely worked out and many games today are 3D versions of this ground breaking title: Elder Scrolls comes to mind. Though other games at the time were similar, Bard's Tale for example, they did not have the scope of story and adventure, nor did they encompass so many technologies of the time. -James Edwards, Microsoft"
i initially read this as "Quantum Leap RPG"
Tears of Vermillion??? Great RPG on the SEGA Genesis.
I wonder if Final Fantasy is on that list
Wulfram 2 -- Free Online 3D game, Runs on a PII!
I can't wait to grid with Sam so I can finally get to lvl 60 and leap into Lee Harvey Oswald!
And I hope the next leap... is the leap home...
Ziggy says there's a 93% chance you have to slay thusands of random orcs then rescue the beautiful dragon from the evil princess before you can leap out of here.
Would love to play as Sam Beckett or Al Calavicci. Classes are traveller, resident, or hologram representation from the future.
No.
Just no.
Not the best game of all time (though it was lots of fun), but I've never played a game that literally gave every single character in the game - even the ones that you would never ordinarily talk to - a real life. Play it and follow some people around for 24 "hours". Amazing.
I was expecting information about a quantum leap in Rocket Propelled Grenade technology.
# Erik
Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger are RPGs? It's more like a book with press X to continue. I like those games but I would classify them as jRPGs (which means they are not RPGs at all). And Oblivion being on this list is just atrocious, not only it is step backwards from Morrowind in many aspects but it is also unplayable at this moment because of tons of bugs. I think we should wait a year or two until Bethseda patches Oblivion so that it doesn't make me start the game fifth time because I did something in wrong order (yeah, I really had game screw up 4 times already).
Why is it that every time we talk about the influence of groundbreaking games (and films too, I suppose), more often than not they're shoehorned into some sort of subjective pecking order?
You'll never see "Top 10 Paintings of the Rennaisance", but that hasn't kept art critics and historians from debating their merits and influence through the years.
Every game on that list, and quite a few others, deserves to be there. But why waste time quibbling about rank? When you make lists like this, people are bound to concentrate more on a game's place rather than the content of the criticism or praise. These games stand on their own as great works, or they wouldn't be there at all.
It all reminds me of those silly GameFAQ's character battles.
And, for my money, Daggerfall and Morrowind deserve to be on there every bit as much as Oblivion. Not to mention NetHack and Diablo.
For some reason the second last page has a wrong link. The 1st place really goes to Fallout and not Half-Life.
Starting with place #5 Chrono Trigger:
It was definitly one of the most entertaining while also groundbreaking games of its time - the time-battle system, the combination of techniques for the battles, dozends of possible endings, countless sidequests and the ability to avoid battles (having to take on the 415th Generic Enemy you wipe away easily is a major turn-off). Shame with Chrono Cross though (it still was a great game, if only the story-makers had not decided to "hey let's kill off everything CT players hold dear and piss on their graves")
For #4
System Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Both game stand synonymous for a new Genre - true first person action role playing games - not FPSs that got added an "roleplaying" system as if as an afterthought, but both sides - action and roleplaying - made as one, from one yarn. The multiple solution & multiple ending ability in Deus Ex gives it a slight advantage over SS2, but I would have been happy to see either on this spot.
For #3
Oblivion - is it the new quantum leap or just a propagation from the old. Perhaps a bit of both. I had some qualms regarding the difficulty of the game (scaling the power of enemies according to your level is nice, but please make sure their power niveau fits the setting - a level 1 character that gets beaten up by City Guards, but that can become champion of the arena - and thus best fighter in the world - just because the arena opponents are also pitiful weak hurts both the sense of accomplishment and suspension of disbelieve), but still the direction is the right one - RPGs become even more open-ended and lifelike, and Oblivion is pointing that direction.
#2 Planescape Torment
What can I say. A perfect story, told in a perfect way. Be who and what you want - literally; waking up without memories gives you that freedom. Truely one of the best RPG ever made. #1 Fallout
Words fail me. Fallout has it all (though PS:T still wins in the story department).
+++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Out of Cheese Error +++ redo from start +++
I agree to the extent that I'd put Morrowind on the "quantum leap" list before Oblivion. Oblivion feels like "pretty Morrowind" more than any kind of new thing.
But to Oblivion's credit, I made it through the game without a single hitch or crash (that I remember). I'm not running an amazing machine, but it looked great and played smooth throughout (except a little choppy during one of the last battles). I remember having a storyline order problem or two in Morrowind - but none with Oblivion.
I don't know whether you were unlucky or I was lucky but I thought Oblivion was a great, well-executed game - with very few glitches for such a complicated setup.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
And the ~***GRAND PRIZE***~ goes to....
::Reasons::
:-P Though i have no doubt there will be tons of ppl to back me up!
Final Fantasy 7
1-The charactors are more recognised than anyone else... better known than even Mario, or Yoshi or any other game charactor. In Asia, they are heroes!
2-Advent Children - How many games in general get full length movies created by their fanbase and sold by the millions internationally? not many!
3-i have yet to see any game with such an Epic storyline and a truly end-of-the-world climactic finale
this could go on, but seeing as how i'm still at work, i better get off before i get caught
None of the winners really seem to belong on the list. The honorable mentions are probably better candidates than anything on the winners list.
Of course EQ is really given credit that belongs to Sierra's "The Realm" (which is still kept around by loyal players to this day). EQ basically latched onto this idea and made it run in 3D. The realm did have a much more fully developed social system and economy than EQ but it was hardly a social experiment. It contains a fully developed magic and combat system, dozens of magical items and spells, several races, and PVP.
If the realm were revamped with a modern graphics system and revamped idea of PVP that allowed for large scale combat then it would probably the best MMORPG today.
Those were some of the best RPGs back in the day
oblivion just came out and although it looks pretty it's nowhere near any of the other entries in terms of gameplay or greatness (not to mention the ridiculous level scaling and object scaling system, that changes the loot and everything depending on your level, basically destroying any sense of immersion you might have in the game world).
-- the cake is a lie
Should have listed the original (1991) version of Neverwinter Nights instead. First multiplayer RPG with graphics. It was an online version of the AD&D gold box games. Supported up to 500 simultaneous players. Pretty short game, but great community and an incredibly fun PVP environment...
Neu
Who cares about Ultima? As long as Planescape: Torment is in a well-deserved second place, I don't care about anything else. Torment was the first and still only computer game that actually feels like a RPG. Excellent storytelling and excellent writing on top of that, but the most important thing is that you actually roleplay an interesting character, instead of just an empty set of stats and weapons who's mainly exploring other people's lives. If that's not a leap forward in CRPGs, I don't know what is.
Still, pen & paper RPGs are better.
How can there be a list of RPGs, and not one page mentions Wizardry?
If there's one thing I would like to see more of, it's Wizardry 8-style party RPGs. I don't think they even make those anymore... *sniff*
I have only heard about 3/5 of the top 5, yet I knew all of the honorable mentions. Am i just old?
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
I'm shocked, shocked to find that game not mentioned here! This is the 1981 classic that started them all. You can't look at a tactical battle menu or a party status display or even the screen layout of almost any CRPG without seeing the legacy of Wizardry. Even Dragon Warrior's trademark slimes have precedent here. Wizardry combat
+0 Meh
stands out in my mind as an RPG I played the HECK out of repeatedly.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I think Oblivion definitely should get the nod because you can do virtually anything in that game...and I do mean anything. My roommate stole a horse...[snip idiotic story]
Elder Scrolls Oblivion -- not only is it the best RPG, but also is one of the best games ever.
Oblivion has made the biggest quantam leap ever for an RPG. There has never been such a significant advance in gaming in one game. End of story.
Good job of aggregating hyperbolic praise of a game that represents, if anything, a step backwards from Daggerfall in terms of gameplay. Oblivion is fun, sure, and the myriad linear, lead-you-by-the-nose quests are highly polished, but there's no way in the world it deserves to be put on such a lofty pedestal. I haven't seen such a gap between the squealing reviews and the game itself since Half-Life 2.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
Deus Ex and Oblivion are close: it should be System Shock 2 and Morrowind instead, but I can see why they chose the ones they did
The only significant omission IMHO is Wizardry. There are so many firsts in that game it's scary- I think most people forget how lame 99% of all Apple games were.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
9-2 were roleplaying games and then number one is a first person shooter?
How does that work? I guess at least they had the decency to name Torment as the number 1 RPG.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Jeez. It makes me clench up my fist every time.
If the point is about quantum leaps, the article was a bit careless.
Planescape: Torment is awesome, but it's probably, technically, redundant to Fallout. Fallout was the first (IIRC) Black Isle-style RPG, which are notable for being RPGs in the old sense, and it's Fallout that made the quantum leap; P:T and Baldur's Gates et al "merely" polished that leap. That opens up a slot.
Many people are mentioning System Shock 2, which I'd point out isn't that different from System Shock 1, which itself is clearly descended from Ultima Underworld, which is what should get the nod on that line. Also, interestingly, all from the same company (more or less; SS2 was developed by Looking Glass offshoot Irrational Games and Looking Glass and published by Electronic Arts.
Oblivion simple doesn't belong. Morrowind may. I'm striking it because I've seen many games like that before and I'm taking the "quantum leap" idea at its word. I'll replace it with Ultima 4, for introducing the idea that RPGs can be more than brutal slaughtering, something still underrated today. All main-stream Ultimas are from Origin.
Dues Ex I can't speak to, never played it, so I'll defer to the article and leave it up there.
And finally, while I don't know whether I'd pick Chrono Trigger per se, but surely "the first significant JRPG" deserves a mention. However, the problem here is that there really were no quantum leaps, it has been a very smooth evolution. (Final Fantasy I is half Ultima-pre-IV and half Bard's Tale, for instance, not a quantum leap.) I've never played FF7, but one may make the argument that if you're going to try to tell a cinematic, linear story (which has it's place, although I wish they had something we could all agree to call them other than RPG), it is a quantum leap to be able to have cinematics and full motion video.
I note with interest that in all four cases where I changed something, all the relevant choices came from the same company. There's Black Isle RPGs, Origin RPGs, Looking Glass (first-person action) RPGs, and (weakest of all/most competition) Square RPGs.
Maybe consolidation isn't the best thing for the industry after all.
(OK, no "maybe".)
I read the beginning of the article, and didn't notice anyone saying COMPUTER RPGs.
"Which role playing game over the entire history of the genre do you think has made the biggest 'quantum leap', and why?"
I'm going to go with Dungeons and Dragons for $100, Chuck.
-Styopa
I've played almsot all the games listed and more, my comment is that even though I agree on games such as Chrono Trigger and FF4 been innovative and good design, since they are the first wave to include some nice interaction in the game, such class change, or time travel, dynamic turn base, with really good story line (MUSIC TOO!!!), and alright graphics for that age. But in awarding such type of game it would be equally valid to place the game Secret of Mana for SNES too. Though my second favorite is Breth of Fire II. Anyhow, though I agreed on some titles, but I totally disagree on having games such as Neverwinter Nights, Obliving, and Everquest on the award list because Neverwinter Night even thoug has many great features such as mule and started early, but this game didn't come out until 3 years after its promissed release date, by then so many good 3D games have alraedy came out, rendering NWN out of date. For everquest, even though its one of the first full 3D MP_RPG, but the first version graphics are so bad that its hardly interesting to play, the real success of full 3D RPG would have to goto the beta phase of Phatasy Star Online, which was out way ealier I think. As to Obliving, its alright to fit into a good RPG section, but what makes it so different from Boulder's Gates and other similar games? What really made a impact on the MMP_RPG game world would be DIABLO II. I am sure every online rpg gammer must've came across that game sometimes in their life, and if they ever played it, there will be no doubt of hooking on it back then. If I would place a game award for Quantum Leap in 3D or semi 3D world, it would surely be Diablo 2 or (if World of WarCraft is valid) to be top nominees. Feel free to critic on my views... But be honest, their ratings are pretty terrible... right?
that's pretty good.
Morrowind and Daggerfall both had their share of showstopping bugs, but that didn't stop them from being incredible games. The same can be said for Fallout and much of the Ultima series.
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet and whatnot.
Daggerfall was a quantum leap with enormous world and huge freedom.
Morrowind was a quantum leap with enormous highly detailed world and even more freedom.
Oblivion was just a sequel with better graphics, some freedom added in a few places and lots of it removed in others. And role-playing elements cut more than by half, comparing to Morrowind.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Fallout and PS:T are well-placed, but I'd have probably put at least one of the Ultimas or possibly the series as a whole on #1. While I've never been that much of an Ultima player (I played mostly 7, 8 and 9 and more recently started to play the excellent Ultima V mod for Dungeon Siege) I admire and appreciate it for being everything I want in an RPG. It's a wide, open world where you can do what you want. What you do has an actual impact on the game world - choice and consequence. You have your great dialog, too. Maybe not as excellent as PS:T, but as good as you can get with branched keyword dialog systems. Also love the fact that you have to keep track of your quests and things like that yourself in the earlier parts of the series.
And what does Oblivion have? A shallow plot, a tiny amount of new lore, idiotic dialog, hand-holding at all times, no politics at all; not between individuals and not between factions. Nothing. Morrowind was 10x the RPG Oblivion is, and that's not even mentioning Daggerfall. Oblivion is the coffin in which TES will be buried. It may be a good action game, but it stinks as an RPG.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
In this game you play the role of an electron. The game will feature ground breaking new features such as:
- You never see your character, you just see an out of focus misty blob. This is to simulate Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty
- Sometimes your character will be able to go through solid walls due to tunnel effect.
- The scenario will look suspiciously like a madman's vision of atoms and crystaline structures
- The caracter will spend most of it's time buzzing around the same place (atom) and will only be able to go somewhere else after being hit by photons with the right amount of energy.
This is scheduled to ship right after Duke Nukem Forever.
"Impactful"? "IMPACTFUL"?! What the hell is that? Have you ever heard anyone other than a drooling marketing idiot use that word? Are these games as painful as wisdom teeth? As painful as getting crushed by a linebacker? This place is going to hell in a handbasket.
Ultima, 4 in particular, was and still is one of the only RPGs to allow you to role-play. The entire game's plot was based around how the player interacted with every NPC and encounter in the world, and the choices they made. Entirely. You could not beat the game unless you played a role that relied on verbal and moral interaction, instead of just combat and clicking through a few different dialogue trees (you could click any selection in dialogue in Planescape and still beat the game with at least one of the endings). Planescape is one of my favorite games of all time, but don't sell Ultima short. NO GAME has yet done what Ultima 4 did, by putting the player character in an outwards-looking-in perspective, and no game has come close to the continuity and cohesiveness of the Ultima 7 world, just to name two ground breaking points of the series.
Is going to be THE most revolutionary RPG/MMORPG to date when it comes out.
Darkfall
1. The smallest physically realizable unit of something.
2. The smallest discrete amount of any quantity (plural: quanta)
3. The smallest 'unit' of energy. A quantum of light is called a photon.
Explain to me again why people use a word that is defined as the smallest difference to describe what they think are big changes?
games journalism blog
Us quantum particles get no respect since Scott Bakula made his first trip through the magical world of time.
-- Muon #2876101789465197026590175892316895
Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
I'm surprised Dungeons & Dragons wasn't mentioned.
ZELDA???