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PC Makers May Be Left On the Shelves

An anonymous reader writes "With the problems posed by a new Microsoft OS, exploding laptop batteries, and changing technology, PC makers may be feeling this pinch this holiday season. Many consumers who are considering purchasing PC hardware are going to be holding off for next year, according to research analysts." From the article: "According to market researcher IDC, PC shipment growth slowed to 7.9 percent in the third quarter, from double-digit percentage growth in the prior three years. The battery recalls may cut into fourth quarter growth, IDC said. Bank of America on October 31 cut its 2006 PC growth forecast to 9.4 percent from 10 percent. All this suggests that consumers looking for bargain gifts may opt for less-expensive gadgets such as cell phones, digital music players, video phones or noise-cancelling headphones."

186 comments

  1. Absolutely... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1, Funny

    Many consumers who are considering purchasing PC hardware are going to be holding off for next year, according to research analysts.

    They're waiting for the new Mac models to be announced at MacWorld before buying a real PC with a real OS. :P

    1. Re:Absolutely... by KanSer · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah. Everyone wants to pay more for the same hardware and a total bloat-ware OS.

      Which part is the Bloatware? The part that isn't Unix.

      Please. Go play with your pussy tech over in the pussy sandbox. Real computers have real tasks to complete. (Which Mac is eminently aware of, which is why they switched to _our_ architecture.)

      (And if I hear one more claim of superior speed, I will smack that person with a sock filled with $300.00 in coins representing the extra money they spent to have some douchebag from California over design the plastic thing that holds the real computer.)

      In reality, people are waiting for the Core 2 Duo to come down in price, and in conjunctiuon, AMD's offerings.

      Consumers are saavy. That's why Macs have no market share.

      --
      • MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward Wednesday April 20, @4:20
    2. Re:Absolutely... by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

      "(And if I hear one more claim of superior speed, I will smack that person with a sock filled with $300.00 in coins representing the extra money they spent to have some douchebag from California over design the plastic thing that holds the real computer.)"

      Go ahead and smack me. I just installed kubuntu 6.10 and it runs like a turtle compared to XP. KDE does look nice though, and my system is hardly shovelhardware: amd 3400+, 1 gig ram, etc.

    3. Re:Absolutely... by KanSer · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I should have specified that I meant a claim of superior Macintosh/OS X speed.

      I'm not dogging Linux here, even if I think they are neglecting the one market they need to win if they want a foothold, and that's the tuner/gamer market. (I know I know, huge start up costs and an ugly install base. Quake 3's source is available, and Half-Life's Mod scene shows it is possible to make at least one killer app/game. Free (faster) OS + Free 'the next counter-strike' is what Ubuntu/needs to go mainstream.)

      --
      • MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward Wednesday April 20, @4:20
    4. Re:Absolutely... by krischik · · Score: 1

      We the Mac might not be faster but it damm well feels so. Whenever I use a Mac (sadly I don't own one) it stays responsive.

      Windows can grint to a halt where you can't even move the mouse anymore. No joke, when that damm virus scanner kick in on my work computer then I can go for a coffee.

      And Kasbar feels sluggisch all the time while that Mac taskbar thingy is just awsome.

      Desktop operating systems are not about compiling a kernel in 1h or 1h15" - it's about clicking with the mouse and it happens right now.

      Martin

    5. Re:Absolutely... by mr_matticus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The point remains, though, that barring some weird Finder-network behavior, Macs running OS X are faster and more responsive in perceived user feel than Windows Vista, Ubuntu, or Mandriva 2007--its primary competitors. Perceived feel goes a long way toward the average user's assessment of "speed." Obviously a Mac is no faster than a matching PC, objectively, and obvious a lightweight GUI in Linux is going to be snappy as well (but not a competitor with the others). I don't know what "claims of superior speed" you've been subjected to in order to produce your coin-sock, but there's an important one. Vista runs hot/cold--sometimes impressively quick, sometimes unbelievably slow. The "enriched" Linux UIs are generally less smooth and slow as well. Maybe part of that is an obsolescence by design thing, but likely it's just bloat (Windows) or bad drivers (Linux).

    6. Re:Absolutely... by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Exactly- I'm using a Sony VAIO laptop (PCG-TR5) and it grinds to a halt when I have more than 1 application running and I try to switch between them. I thought at first that it was because eMule was just a resource hog (it happens a lot with eMule/Firefox), but it happens with pretty much every other program too (with MS Word, sometimes just it alone will slow the machine). On the other hand, I can have Acquisition (Mac-based P2P), firefox, and Word going at the same time on my old Powerbook (not so old- aluminum Powerbook with SuperDrive- Feb. 2005) and there's no visible slowdown (sure, there may be a couple of pauses in MS Word when the text doesn't show up and later appears in a burst when I type, but the mouse still moves, and I can still switch applications).

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    7. Re:Absolutely... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly- You know what bothers me most about trying to keep a Windows machine running in this household? The feeling that anything I do is utterly disconnected from when the damned thing decides to start working. Boot the machine in Linux? Network interface comes right up. Boot it in Windows? Uhhh... sometimes it comes up, sometimes it doesn't. Bring up the network configuration, click on "Repair", sometimes it'll repair, sometimes it won't, sometimes it'll tell me it couldn't but, lo and behold, all of a sudden the network starts running again. Even more fun: Open up the printer because we were trying to print to a network printer, see "...unable to connect." Okay, I can see that that might have been a problem when the network was down, but we can browse the network drives on the server, so let's close it and re-open it and... oh: "...unable to connect" again. And, yet, what's that I hear? Yes, the printer that you claim to be unable to connect to just decided to print that job you claim to be unable to send. Look: If you're still running Windows at home, don't. My dad's having good luck with Suse, there are lots of other Linux distros out there, if you're not up to running that then buy a Mac. If you're running Windows at your office, tell me the name of the company so I can buy stock in your competitors, anyone who's putting their IT staff through this crap is bound to fail in the mid-term. But let's not send one more dollar to these incompetent bozos who clutter up our internet with virus laden spam spewers because they can't be bothered to get security right, and who fight cooperation and good user experience with every single character their programmers type. Just. stop. it. Anyone continuing to purchase Microsoft products at this point is pissing in our well, salting our commons, and needs to be excommunicated from polite society. I'm not in favor of torture, but finding a good spot of desert, surrounding it with a minefield and machine gun towers, and letting the bastards starve seems like an appropriate response.

    8. Re:Absolutely... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Whenever I use a Mac (sadly I don't own one) it stays responsive.

      Well, the main thing is that it doesn't accumulate malware and degrade over time.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    9. Re:Absolutely... by mark · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree. Everyone knows a computer should have an 80x24, text-only monochrome display. That's the way the human mind works! These wasteful ideas like high-resolution colour moving images do not support any rational understanding of the human cognitive process. Computers are designed for one purpose, and one purpose only, and only elite programmers who have trained in the methods of the Great Masters from the 1950's should be permitted to use them. Any other use is an abomination.

      I believe that more than 1 megabyte of memory is a waste. Indeed, I used to run a medical laboratory with 100 people in it on less memory than that! We didn't have fancy graphics or those ozone-polluting "laser" printers. We had to send people their test results using coded English on paper that didn't fit into any folder on the planet, and had lines on it. If patients need a graph to explain why they are sick then they simply should have stayed healthy!!

      I believe that languages like Cocoa, Java and C# are abominations. Real programmers don't make mistakes. Real programmers don't write "garbage" that needs collection. If you make a mistake then you are, by definition, not a programmer. And you and the people you work for and all other people who don't even know who you are, should pay the price of your errors, indefinitely (yes, I do believe that Daniel Bernstein is the living Christ). I believe that all programming problems can be solved in assembly language, and that all other languages have no merit, except C, which can be used if you have urgent work to do.

      I believe that we should return to teletypes and 110bps connections and 8 inch floppy disks, because these focussed the mind. I believe that if you can't keep everything that's important to you on a single disk then there is something wrong with you. I want to return the chemistry to photography and the "Super" to video. I want to wait 2 weeks to get my photos back from the drugstore -- only to have the police waiting for me when I pick them up.

      I believe that only consumer computer system on the market which does not get regularly flattened by malware consists mostly of bloatware. I believe the design of the plastic that holds the computer is irrelevant, even if it means no protruding edges to break off and a single object to put on my desk. I believe that a computer that can go to sleep instantly is just lazy. I believe, contrary to all recent reviews, that Macs are more expensive than equivalent PCs. I believe that the actual value of the bloatware installed on a Mac, including all of the free applications, is zero.

      I believe Vista contains no bloatware and that WINFS was, is and will be a great idea. I believe this because I believe in Market Share and the biggest Market Shareholder is Windows. For some reason I like to allude to market share and Linux in the same sentence, even though the two aren't related.

      In short, like you, I am an ignorant, unthinking, luddite troll who makes baseless, disconnected assertions and appears to have lost my humanity. I console myself by knowing that I don't threaten people with violence because of a simple platform preference which is almost certainly based on a more rational analysis than yours.

    10. Re:Absolutely... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously, were you raped by your father as a youth?

    11. Re:Absolutely... by LS · · Score: 1

      I believe that we should return to teletypes and 110bps connections and 8 inch floppy disks, because these focussed the mind

      HAHAHA, I would have spit milk through my nose if I happened to be drinking it. Thank you for bringing some rationality back - that guy's post was unnerving. I was waiting for him to don a white hooded robe and burn some plastic boxes...

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    12. Re:Absolutely... by krischik · · Score: 1

      Our main system is indeed Linux - hence the reference to Kasbar and our Laptop is ungoing convertion to Linux (have to get it right before I can let the rest of the family to it).

      Still whenever I see a Mac it's soo cool. I am looking at Macs with envy for, well, what must be 20 years now, I might just get one after all.

      Martin

    13. Re:Absolutely... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Remove beagle (the stupid excuse for a search utility that frequently pegs the cpu at 100%) and anything else that uses mono (hint - any files ending in .exe), and your box will probably just hum along fine except for the once-a-day running of slocate.

    14. Re:Absolutely... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actualy I agree with most of your points about spoiling the well and all but I had to laugh at the networking idea. Just put a new wireless router up last night after reading the boards and giving up on EVER getting my PB G4 hooked up via my linksys wrt54g. There are so many bad stories of people trying to hook up this combo I just went and got a new router. Well after 5 hours last night I got the PB to hook up after reading "there was a problem" about a million times after putting in the routers password. The part that really pissed me off though is the fact my daughters dell and my sons acer were up and running after after password install in about 30 seconds. Yeah they are both Window boxes and I guess always will be. My son is studying accounting and my daughter is doing graphics. Something about using Quickbooks and photoshop and laughing at the offers from Linux, "we are in the real world here dad" is the general comment. Yeah they love my apple but point out both their machines together don't cost as much as my G4. As for me I will now spend the day trying to figure out why my dual boot desktop has lost the internet connection in the Linux side. The switch from cable to DSL(CHARTER SUCKS!!) killed the Linux side, thankfully the Windows side is working fine so I may just spend the day watching football and playing WoW instead. So in finishing yeah i love my Mac and I am quite willing to spend my day getting it to work "Just" right. But please type in "wireless routing and G4" and read the stories. Then go to Linux. Org and see how many people are having problems with networking Linux, forget wireless, just networking. And please try to remember without all "those" people who use windows being on the internet, we would probably have a real cool BBS system here just like the old days.

    15. Re:Absolutely... by metamatic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Mono is the worst thing to happen to Linux. I'm considering switching back to KDE.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    16. Re:Absolutely... by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Is your password in hex? if it is I think you have to put something in front of the password so that the Mac knows that it's supposed to be hex (I think that's the case, I couldn't get my old PB set up for wireless at school, and had the tech director set it up for me, so I'm not sure, he may have given me another explanation)

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    17. Re:Absolutely... by rapidweather · · Score: 1

      It's not so much the pre-installed OS, one can run a livecd linux easily on the new machines. I see 2 GB of ram on many, for about $1500 for a loaded laptop, with a 256 MB ATI graphics card, and a Intel Centrino Duo, "Core 2 Duo inside" processor. Imagine, turning on the machine with the livecd already in the drive, and missing the Out of Box Experience for today, possibly putting it off until tomorrow. With 2 GB of ram, one can just do "toram" at the boot prompt, and quickly place the OS in ram, then remove the CD from the tray. Stay booted up, and you're good to go. If you like what you see, partition the hard drive with QTParted, and next time, place the OS in a partition with "tohd=/dev/hda6", set up a swap, perhaps a small partition for a "persistent home directory", so you can save new applications, such as Google Earth, between bootups.
      All this is an alternative, but in the end most purchasers of a PC are going to want to give Windows a try, since they paid for it, and all of the installed hardware is supported, that may not be true in all cases with a livecd linux. I'm not going to claim that an autoconfiguring OS will detect all of the hardware, but it is a good bet that your broadband connection will be up and running, with a firewall, and that you can use Firefox 2.0 to surf the web in an environment that is more secure than Windows.

      -- Rapidweather

    18. Re:Absolutely... by Monsuco · · Score: 2, Interesting
      But considering their market shares, people don't really want speed. If they wanted speed, fluxbox would be worshiped. If they wanted beauty and speed, OSX would dominate, but what they want is a PC at a reasonable price (ruling OSX out). They don't like Linux because they want a PC that they don't have to set up themselves.

      Interesting huh? OSX and Linux, the two alternative OS's are not as sucessful because they are too far on either side of the road. OSX has the best OEM integration of any OS, but people dislike it because that OEM charges so much. Linux has few OEMs, but even though it is cheaper, nobody wants to set it up themselves. True, Linux doesn't take much effort to set up anymore, but it still scares the consumer.

      I do hope this lack of sales produces a price war. I want to buy a laptop soon.

    19. Re:Absolutely... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The point remains, though, that barring some weird Finder-network behavior, Macs running OS X are faster and more responsive in perceived user feel than Windows Vista, Ubuntu, or Mandriva 2007--its primary competitors. Perceived feel goes a long way toward the average user's assessment of "speed."

      I guess it depends on how you look at percieved speed. On Windows, and in Linux, I generally turn off the silly animations, and knock the delay times way down for things like displaying menus (Tweak UI is great for this in Windows). I'm used to UI things happening instantly in Windows and Linux on any reasonably fast computer. However, in OSX I haven't found a way to tweak it's UI to this level, thus to me OSX just feels slower and more bloated than Windows.

    20. Re:Absolutely... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      I really do tire of the "Macs are way expensive LOLZ" argument. It's about as tired as Windows blue screen jokes. Apple computers are not categorically more expensive than PC counterparts. The PC world is a far larger sphere--prices for similarly configured systems start below that of Apple computers and extend above the price of Apple computers. Macs aren't more expensive than comparable PCs--they're more expensive than the cheapest iterations of similar PCs.

      In other words, If Sony and Dell and Toshiba can make computers that are similar in configuration and price to Apple machines, then there is no 'added cost' in buying a Mac. There may be a 'cost savings' for budget-minded shoppers to choose a cheaper configuration, but that's not the same thing.

      Apple doesn't cater to the budget shoppers. But it certainly caters to the same types of people who buy $2300 Sony Vaios that aren't demonstrably better than $2200 MacBooks.

    21. Re:Absolutely... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      You and I are not average users. You know what the hardware underneath means in terms of performance, and you know why the UI seems sluggish and how to improve that for your own purposes. The average user experiences a computer through the UI--a sluggish UI (when running fully enabled) results in the computer being perceived as slower. Running about and disabling components to improve performance isn't something a user should be expected to do. A computer should be snappy out of the box, and a user shouldn't have to sacrifice the features (even if the feature is "just" eye candy) to make the computer perform acceptably.

      Further, without the animations and "eye candy," Windows Vista is no longer a competitor with Mandriva 2007 (with its XGL desktop), Ubuntu (again, with its accelerated desktop), or OS X. Using the classic themes and creating a "leaner" Windows box dumps it down into the category of fluxbox and IceWM and old-school boxes. The OS 9 UI on a modern Mac is quite snappy--but that's not what we're talking about here.

    22. Re:Absolutely... by kabz · · Score: 1

      If your WEP key is say 2389aabb6, then put in 0x2389aabb6, and better still paste it in from a text document so you know it's right. My G4 PB has been 100% on my home wireless network, and friends, hotels and everywhere else I take it.

      Saving up for a Core 2 Duo PowerBook, damn I mean MacBook Pro.

      --
      -- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
    23. Re:Absolutely... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I believe that all programming problems can be solved in assembly language

      ...and that the code IS the documentation. Though you're of course expected to recognize it as machine code as well, particularly if it involves blondes and brunettes.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    24. Re:Absolutely... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Or I could just wait a couple of months (or not) and get a new Mac with OS X and save me the hassle.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    25. Re:Absolutely... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      The point remains, though, that barring some weird Finder-network behavior, Macs running OS X are faster and more responsive in perceived user feel than Windows Vista, Ubuntu, or Mandriva 2007--its primary competitors.

      No, they're not. OS X is *by far* the most sluggish UI to use out of the relatively mainstream OSes - especially on "average" hardware. I've yet to sit down in front of any Mac without having the beachball appear within 15 minutes of "typical" workload. Not to mention the general slowness of application and context menus, window resizing and task switching (although Expose neatly hides much of the latter).

      I installed Vista RC2 on an old 933Mhz P3 (768M RAM, 20G 5400rpm hard disk, GeForce 5200 - a whopping 1.5 on the "Windows Experience Index") just to see how bad it would be on a "slow" PC. It's quite usable and stomps all over my 1Ghz iBook (768M RAM, 5400rpm 40G drive) in terms of "perceived user feel". Quite frankly, after using it, I've downgraded my "minimum Vista PC estimate" from a 1Ghz+, 1GB+ machine to any P3 with 768M of RAM and an Aero-capable video card.

      I *wish* OS X was as responsive as Windows. It would make it that much easier to justify spending the extra $$$ on a Mac. I will never understand where some people get this idea that OS X is "faster" from, but I can only assume it's because many of the flashy graphical effects (which are almost entirely done by the video card anyway) remain responsive even though the rest of the UI has ground to a halt. I guess for some people still being able to watch those Dock icons resize as you wipe the mouse over them is a reasonable consolation prize to multi-second waits for a context menu to appear and incessant beachballing trying to switch tabs in Safari, but personally I find it nothing more than infuriating.

    26. Re:Absolutely... by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

      Personally, I have the exact opposite sentiment, and here's why:

      Open an empty folder in Windows. There will be a slight pause while it checks to see if there's anything in the folder, then it opens a window. Now do the same on Mac OS. It opens a window instantly and allows you to interact with it.

      Now, let's go to the other extreme. Open a jam-packed-full folder on Windows (with more than 1000 items). There will be a long pause as it finds all the stuff in that folder, sorts them, and finally opens a window and displays the contents of the folder. Now do the same on the Mac OS. It opens a window instantly and allows you to interact with it. It adds things to that folder as it finds them, making some of the items "moving targets" (and nearly impossible to interact with until things settle down), but if all you wanted to do was open a subfolder (which will be found and displayed first), you can do that and skip messing with the rest of the files in that folder. It's partly a benefit of the HFS/HFS+ file system (both in FS seek structure and in the amount of time Apple has been tweaking the code for it), and partly a timing issue with the UI. Microsoft has to put up with the limitations of the FAT/FAT32 and NTFS file systems, and they still don't bother to do common sense things like open the window first and add things later (and they've had live-updating windows for a long time).

      The Mac OS is full of little things like that that actually save you real time, rather than cutting back on minor visual effects. Also, it's worth noting that the vast majority of visual effects 1) serve a purpose in making the UI "feel right" either logically or spatially (for instance, Finder windows "zoom" open from the icon you clicked rather than just appearing from nowhere) and 2) aren't distracting and/or stupid. And the ones that violate #2 can be turned off (genie effect, for example). There aren't any delay times for displaying menus (though there is a fade-out on them). Windows seems to have stupid UI tricks just for the sake of having them. Who wanted menus to spontaneously hide options that you haven't used in a while? Probably not even the poor sap who had to code it.

    27. Re:Absolutely... by dubiousmike · · Score: 1

      A core2duo Mac running OS X is slower than a core2duo Mac running XP when using photoshop, encoding and some other processesor intensive tasks.

      I had a dual proc quad core with 4 gigs of ram running 10.4.x and it was slower for simple tasks like web browsing than my single processor Dell with 1.5 gigs of ram, if you are talking about perceived speed...

      The first is fact, the second is my opinion.

      That said, I enjoy OS X a great deal...

    28. Re:Absolutely... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Actually, I find the Windows Explorer interface to be pretty fast. It may take a couple of seconds to show a large directory (I have one with 3,647 objects at 188GB, which opens in maybe 2 seconds, and it has a custom background to boot), but once it's there, Windows is done fussing with it, provided you don't have thumbnails enabled or something like that. You're not fighting with the system as it slows down trying to read metadata or whatever from the files. Once it's open, you can scroll quickly to what you want, or just the keyboard to jump to the file you want. Mac isn't too terrible about that (unless you're opening something over the network, then it's simply horrible), but my experience is that KDE and Gnome absolutely choke on large directories. Quite often the "do everything then show the results" approach is faster than show stuff as you update it, due to having to constantly redraw the UI and refresh the list.

      And I agree about Windows doing crap for the sake of doing crap. That pretty much sums up the new Windows XP theme, not to mention Vista. I would like to find the person who thought that personalized menus was a good idea, and smack them, along with the person who thought up Luna.

  2. And four months later... by tsa · · Score: 1

    they will have had the best first quarter ever, with all the new sales thanks to Vista.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:And four months later... by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about Apple?

    2. Re:And four months later... by tribe+of+thousands · · Score: 1

      Must be talking about Apple... Microsoft has signed a deal with the devil and will find less professionals, i.e. I.T. Admins and vendors willing to play with Windows any longer. Most rational people are sick of the "security/DRM/Blah Blah Blah vs. user friendliness" fad this country has been riding...Just give us a usable OS, we'll handle our own security, thanks. And no, I don't hate Microsoft, just the products it produces. :)

    3. Re:And four months later... by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 1

      Vista won't be driving hardware sales, and there certainly won't be a "best first quarter ever." Consumer buzz for Vista is actually very low.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    4. Re:And four months later... by drewtown · · Score: 1

      I would have to agree with you, not much hype around it here. There probably will be more once the ads start rolling out though, but I doubt it does much for hardware sales.

    5. Re:And four months later... by kabz · · Score: 1

      My experience of the 5744 Vista is that it's reasonable, but seems to be more unstable than XP. In particular, running any kind of games on my NVidia 6600GT will have it blue screen after a while. The FSX demo in particular really struggles unless you crank the desktop resolution down before starting it.

      There are a bunch of rough edges such as bytes/sec deleted not being updated when emptying the recycle bin. Err, just like XP then.

      It'll be interesting to see whether there are reports of widespread instability when Vista ships, and how fast MS scramble to get a service pack out.

      --
      -- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
  3. Bad year due to the new consoles too by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of gamers will opt for a Wii or a PS3 instead of a new PC this year as well. Not a good year to own Dell stock.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    1. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Salvance · · Score: 1

      I'd agree with this as well ... it seems like there are far less breakout mass-market PC games available now than in the past, which can't bode well for higher end PCs.

      It's always possible my perception is just a reflection of the undeniable fact that I'm getting old ... although I can easily name 10-12 anticipated PS3 or Wii games, but can't name a single PC game that isn't geared towards mature audiences (a la Bully).

      --
      Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
    2. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

      The odd thing is that I'm finding the opposite to be true. I have yet to find a reason to buy a 360, wii, or ps3. The only reason I may purchase a Wii is because I haven't played a zelda game in about 8 or so years (last one was on the SNES), and the controller looks interesting if it doesn't turn out to be a gimmick. Carcassone and Puerto Rico will be coming over to the 360, and that may interest me if it turns out any good. Perhaps in a few years the consoles will have alot more options that interest me. Geometry Wars is awesome but it's not really sane to buy a $400 console for a $5 game.

      For the PC: Oblivion (pc has mods), Neverwinter nights 2, Galactic Civilizations 2, the new star trek game coming out (pc has mods), Spore, etc all have me excited.

      I think a mistake microsoft made was making it so easy to tie in the 360 games with direct x to port games on both the PC and xbox. If you have a decent PC it gives you little incentive to get a 360.

    3. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by arth1 · · Score: 1
      It's always possible my perception is just a reflection of the undeniable fact that I'm getting old ... although I can easily name 10-12 anticipated PS3 or Wii games, but can't name a single PC game that isn't geared towards mature audiences (a la Bully).

      I can only name a single new PC game that isn't geared towards immature audiences: Flight Simulator X. The rest, including Bully (or "Canis Canem Edit" as it's sold as in Europe), are definitely marketed towards the sub-35 crowd, and not mature audiences (i.e. those whose idea of a FPS is "THROW AXE AT DWARF", and who considers Gauntlet a massively multiplayer RPG).

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    4. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he means Mature as in Film/ESRB category (>= 18 years), not Mature as in porn category (>= 35 years) :-)

    5. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A lot of gamers will opt for a Wii or a PS3 instead of a new PC this year as well. Not a good year to own Dell stock."

      In that case, this is a very good time to buy Dell stock. When it goes back up, you'll be happy you got it at today's low prices.

    6. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      It might be- after Q4 results. Not before, or you'll lose value when the below expectations panic selling occurs.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      I think a mistake microsoft made was making it so easy to tie in the 360 games with direct x to port games on both the PC and xbox. If you have a decent PC it gives you little incentive to get a 360.


      If they manage to end up making money form the xbox 360, then it may not be a mistake. I think in this regards, Microsoft knew many people wanted consoles and had to compensate, hence in the xbox and xbox 360. This is even more true as console increasingly become networkable. Currently the real advantages the PC based games have:
        * 1 - easily downloadable
        * 2 - you can chose a higher resolution display if you want to
        * 3 - you get to choose the amount of processing power you give to the game
        * 4 - for the most part online playing is free, unless you are talking about MMORPGs
        * 5 - anyone is allowed to produce a PC games (no licencse needed)
        * 6 - you can buy a game from any country

      At the moment I see point 1) being addressed by new console and point 4) being addressed only by Nintendo. For the rest the PC still offers the flexibility you want. This is mainly because consoles are designed to be easy to use, so upgradability is less important and for point 5) and 6) its all about control and trying to maximise the return.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    8. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by idonthack · · Score: 1
      http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/11/zelda_the_reas o.html

      Go sit in front of your TV. After five minutes or so, look where your hands are. Likely they're just sprawled out at either side of your torso. Where they're likely not is sitting parallel to each other in the middle of your lap, where they'd be if you had a game controller. This isn't an unnatural position per se, but neither could it be called a rest position. Of course it works -- I've been doing it for twenty-odd years and have no problem with it, per se.

      But the Wii controller is split in two halves. And you don't need to constantly be pointing the Wii remote half at the TV screen, because it doesn't control the camera and this isn't a first-person shooter. You only need point the remote at the TV when required by the game -- when you're going to shoot your slingshot, or for other purposes (which will be revealed when the final embargo date is up).

      Get where I'm going with this? By hour two or so, my remote hand was resting on my right leg, twisted inwards. But my left hand was out of my lap entirely, just hanging over the arm of the chair as if I was holding a Dustbuster and cleaning the rug. And I was playing the game, actively, perfectly.

      Had the only innovation of the Wii controller been to split the game pad up into two independent halves, it would have been worth it for that alone. You can't understand this with a five-minute trade show demo. You have to be at home, in your natural environment...

      --
      Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
    9. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Civilisation 4, Sid Meier's Railroads!, Football Manager 2007, Tiger Woods 2007, Company of Heroes. In fact, quite a few senior citizens play the more realistic WW2 games like Red Orchestra.

      On the consoles, Brain Age is actively marketed to people worried about senility.

    10. Re:Bad year due to the new consoles too by Kjella · · Score: 1

      A lot of gamers will opt for a Wii or a PS3 instead of a new PC this year as well.

      Well, if the PS3 is reasonably successful it must be taking a big chunk out of the 500-600$ gaming PC market. I can't imagine they manage to sell it to the same 300$ market that Wii/xbox360 is aiming for. PS3 looks like the console for all the people that go "Yeah, I would like a simple console and not fiddle around with my PC all the time, and multiplayer would be nice... but PAL/NTSC graphics? I've had better on my PC now for a decade". Personally, I think that market is too small, but I guess since supply is cut short Sony will try a "we're delivering as fast as we can, they get torn off the shelves" play. And here in Europe they missed Christmas. I just recently saw a fairly mainstream "Top ten tech things to give your boyfriend for Christmas" or something like that. Wii was #1, xbox360 was #6. PS3? They'll get the table scraps after Wii has had one helping and XBox360 two (this and last year). There's been a few hands-on tests now and the results were mostly positive, but they definately sounded more like a competitor which is maybe 100-120% of the xbox360, it completely lacked all the superlatives I was expecting when you're comparing it to a system twice the price. So it has 25GB for game discs, Cell processor, (better GPU?) and 1080p on the spec sheet, but when that doesn't translate to a "The graphics are stunning and blew me away with a level of detail far higher than we've seen on the xbox360", then it's rather academic. In addition to that, the preliminary GF8800 benchmarks that was on slashdot here a few days ago show that GPUs are still evolving like crazy. That means I don't think the PS3 is half as future-proof as they like to claim. The truth is that it is a big push for Blu-Ray. It is certainly a very dangerous play, it's like a poker pot where the stakes are the console market and the HiDef DVD market and Sony is going all in. Even if they do succeed in making Blu-Ray the dominant standard, it might still be a pyrrhic victory where they lose console dominance.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  4. Let me save everyone the trouble by Shados · · Score: 1

    ---insert 350 "they should get Macs instead!" posts here---

  5. I'm surprised that PCs are up at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, if this were the mid 90's, I could see the case why people would want to continuously upgrade, as even the best computers were just.... bleh.

    But without a recent Windows OS release to drive growth because of higher requirements, I would almost think that PCs (besides Notebooks) should have flatlined completely several years back. Most apps don't require the lastest and greatest anymore. My five year old PC peter along on Firefox 2 just fine, and for many people, that is probably the most demanding app they'll ever use, besides an office suite.

    Not everybody is a gamer or programmer.

    1. Re:I'm surprised that PCs are up at all by paisleyboxers · · Score: 1

      My Pentium Pro is just fine running DamnSmallLinux! Why would I ever want a new fangled machine with all these cores? C'mon.. first it's got the two most powerful words I'vs ever heard.. "Pentuim" and "Pro" (that's short for PROFESSIONAL). I have all that 128 megs of something Vista is talking about already.. and I believe you may not remember. but my machine runs the PRO version of Intel. Besides.. i have FrontSideBus! .. And video? My 3DFX is superior to everything out there! Helloo... pixel shading!!???! You bet with all of us out here already in cpu heaven well never walk into your Fry's or BestBuy's... NO WAY. Who needs usb anyway? I have the -original- serial bus! Try and mess with that!!!

  6. Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You will have to forgive me. My definition of PC user has expanded in the past couple of years from big-haired douchebags from Wintel who trolled Tekserve at night trying to get through Crystal Quest or Inside Macintosh. (Ahh, the '80s.) I now use "PC user" as a general term to describe the wannabes who exhibit an attitude of "Yeah, we cool. We're Mac users," when they are clearly from some other part of the universe.

    However, to prevent further confusion from the teeming masses, I will use the term poseur. Or in this case, switcheurs. These are the dunderheads who proclaim their trendiness because they use a Mac even though they were probably maximizing their windows until last week.

    They try to act counterculture by making comments about good taste and how everything is beige, and think of themselves as nonconformists, which is laughable since all they are doing is conforming to another lifestyle.

    What is really pathetic is when these expatriates proclaim their love for their adopted platform. When I hear it I cringe and automatically think of that Daphna Kalfon song "I Love My Mac." Not that there is anything wrong with Daphna.

    That phrase, coming from a switcheur, reeks of such vomit-inducing pretension. You think you are cooler than the rest of the world because you've been to the Apple store? Because of your zero-button mouse? Because of the fact that you have to manually sort the Desktop upon failing (inevitably) to understand the Mac's right-handed icon arrangement? Where I come from, this is called "trying too hard."

    The Mac platform today is ground zero for the switcheur epidemic, which means more tourists and more expatriates moving in. It has become way too mainstream and too damn self-congratulatory to live here. And with more corporate giants moving in, the Mac is so ovah.

    1. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF are you yapping about?

    2. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Mac platform today is ground zero for the switcheur epidemic, which means more tourists and more expatriates moving in.

      You can be a snob if you want, but I welcome every new Mac user. Better late than never.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      You also forgot to correct the GP that Macs are a subset of PCs! (see my diary - "why is Apple afraid of being PC" if you don't understand why)

      Good post otherwise! Well done - reasonably coherent.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    4. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by oGMo · · Score: 1
      Better late than never.
      One could say the same about a modern MacOS.
      --

      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    5. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hahahahhaha!

      Well done (although would you really call a spit polish over a 30 year old OS modern?)

      Best Jobs could do on short notice I guess :-)

    6. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well.. Apple had to have a near-death experience to get their act together. Good thing too, because if NeXTSTEP had vanished and Windows and Linux were all I had to choose from, I would have left the computer industry in despair.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      Technically, Macs are PCs (in the general sense of "personal computer") but so are Amigas, SPARCstations, and PDAs. They're not PCs in the sense of "IBM PC and compatibles", which is what people are usually talking about when they talk about "Mac vs. PC".

      See this comment in the thread you just linked to.

    8. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by dfghjk · · Score: 0, Troll

      So you have contempt for these "poseurs" who desire to emulate the arrogant, elitist attitudes of mac users as you describe; mac users who are now too mainstream to be elitist enough for you? Where do you "come from" and what is your next, non-conformist elite platform? Hopefully one that can automatically correct street-slang misspellings.

      I think you'll have a hard time finding a platform that's still optimized for 9" screens, lacks protected memory and preemptive multitasking, and is still burdened with a one-button mouse. Congrats if you find one and can crawl off in a corner and feel superior.

    9. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear hear.

    10. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh noes, you're not funny OR true!

    11. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other AC had it right, WMF; you're neither funny, nor correct, nor even interesting. Choke on beige and die.

    12. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      Technically, Macs are PCs (in the general sense of "personal computer") but so are Amigas, SPARCstations, and PDAs.

      Yes, but slashdot is a technical site.

      They're not PCs in the sense of "IBM PC and compatibles", which is what people are usually talking about when they talk about "Mac vs. PC".

      People who say Mac vs PC in the age of wintel macs are self deluded.

      Look up PC in the dictionary.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    13. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      People who say Mac vs PC in the age of wintel macs are self deluded.

      When you can buy a Mac without OS X, and drop any piece of standard PC hardware in into it without having to worry about weird compatibility issues (eg: "non-Mac" video cards), then you can call it a PC.

    14. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by oc255 · · Score: 1

      Good point on the mac video bios.

      Here's some counter-point. My friend has a PC and he wants a new graphics card. He has an AGP motherboard. So now he has to get a PCI-E board, new memory and a new CPU (possibly). He priced out the parts and ended up getting a completely new rig. I understand drop-in and I understand the weird Mac video Bios reality. But another reality is, PCs are not always a case of "drop any piece of standard PC hardware". Worrying about weird compatibility issues could also mean PC-y things like DDR vs DDR2, cpu socket type and other upgrade path eventualities.

    15. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Here's some counter-point. My friend has a PC and he wants a new graphics card. He has an AGP motherboard. So now he has to get a PCI-E board, new memory and a new CPU (possibly).

      No, he doesn't. There are quite high-end AGP video cards available new, and buying the last generation's top-end used from eBay will also give excellent performance, even in cutting-edge games.

      I know, because I'm in the same position and had to make the same decisions.

      He priced out the parts and ended up getting a completely new rig.

      I doubt the price difference lent itself to particularly high quality replcement parts. It certainly wouldn't here in Australia. Now, if you only had dirt-cheap components to start with, then replacing the whole thing is probably a reasonable economic decision, instead of upgrading - but then compared to a Mac, a PC with such cheap parts probably only cost half as much in the first place.

      I understand drop-in and I understand the weird Mac video Bios reality. But another reality is, PCs are not always a case of "drop any piece of standard PC hardware". Worrying about weird compatibility issues could also mean PC-y things like DDR vs DDR2, cpu socket type and other upgrade path eventualities.

      All of which are extremely well documented and add little, if anything, to the price unless you wait _far_ too long between upgrades (in which case, you're better off replacing anyway).

    16. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      When you can buy a Mac without OS X, and drop any piece of standard PC hardware in into it without having to worry about weird compatibility issues (eg: "non-Mac" video cards), then you can call it a PC.

      PC is short for "Personal Computer" - all your compatibility issues hold true for any pc.

      Macs are Personal Computers - PCs. Change the dictionary definition of PC if you think differently.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    17. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not often we see such an apt username.

      PC is short for "Personal Computer" - all your compatibility issues hold true for any pc.

      False.

      Macs are Personal Computers - PCs. Change the dictionary definition of PC if you think differently.

      Please post the dictionary definition of "Mac". Don't forget to cite your source.

    18. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1
      False

      False? Just like that? With no counterargument?

      You said:

      drop any piece of standard PC hardware in into it without having to worry about weird compatibility issues (eg: "non-Mac" video cards)

      The same does hold true for non-Mac PCs. Can you buy any video card & drop it in any x86 machine? No. You've got to check AGP, PCI-X, etc compatability. Same holds for RAM, other cards, in fact nearly everything.

      The x86 architecture has fragmented hugely, you cannot buy any piece of hardware, drop it into an x86 and expect it to work

      Please post the dictionary definition of "Mac". Don't forget to cite your source.

      Utterly stupid. A Mac is a brand. It has no dictionary definition.

      "PC" is a generic term, it does have a dictionary definition - "Personal Computer"

      Do you disagree that a mac is not a personal computer? Or do you disagree with the dictionary definition of PC?
      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    19. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      False? Just like that? With no counterargument?

      There was no counterargument to make. Your statement was wrong.

      The same does hold true for non-Mac PCs. Can you buy any video card & drop it in any x86 machine? No. You've got to check AGP, PCI-X, etc compatability. Same holds for RAM, other cards, in fact nearly everything.

      The sorts of "compatibility issues" being discussed arise even when appropriate physical and electrical connections are being used.

      The x86 architecture has fragmented hugely, you cannot buy any piece of hardware, drop it into an x86 and expect it to work

      Of course not. Nor did I suggest you could.

      However, if, for example, your hardware states it meets certain industry standard specifications and you mate it with other hardware that meets the same industry standard specifications, then it will work (or it is broken).

      Utterly stupid. A Mac is a brand. It has no dictionary definition.

      So is comparing a "brand" to a physical device - as you did - equally stupid ? Exactly how does one install hardware into a "brand" ?

      "PC" is a generic term, it does have a dictionary definition - "Personal Computer"

      "PC", used in context (as it was previously), also has a specific meaning - it refers to IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computers. Numerous words and phrases in the English language (and probably others) have this sort of duality in meaning.

    20. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      "PC", used in context (as it was previously), also has a specific meaning - it refers to IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computers.

      Idiot. A mac is an IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computer. You can run windows, linux, and all your standard IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible software with it!

      By your own definition, a mac is a subset of PC.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    21. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Idiot. A mac is an IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computer.

      A Mac is a brand. It has no dictionary definition.

      Please make up your mind.

      You can run windows, linux, and all your standard IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible software with it!

      But you can't always use PC standard hardware with it. Ergo, it's not a PC in the colloqial sense - as pointed out in my first post.

      By your own definition, a mac is a subset of PC.

      Then, by the definition of "subset", a Mac is not a PC.

    22. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      Please make up your mind.

      Macs are IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computers and also a brand - is that really so hard to understand?

      But you can't always use PC standard hardware with it

      What are you saying? Because you can't use all generic hardware on a Dell with a riser card (due to physical restraints) that its not a PC? That a PC that's fussy with its RAM requirements is no longer a PC? That Sony vaio Desktop series (which feature some werid compatability issues) are also not PCs?

      Face it - by your own definition, a mac is a PC. Utterly, utterly stupid.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    23. Re:Ugh! Don't encourage the PC users... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Macs are IBM (or intel x86, if you prefer) compatible computers and also a brand - is that really so hard to understand?

      Macs aren't 100% PC compatible. If they were, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

      "PCs" can be either "personal computers", or "x86 PCs". Is that so hard to understand ? Because you sure seemed to be having trouble with.

      What are you saying? Because you can't use all generic hardware on a Dell with a riser card (due to physical restraints) that its not a PC?

      Physical dimensions aren't under discussion, unless they're part of a PC standard that a "PC" or component is claiming to support.

      That a PC that's fussy with its RAM requirements is no longer a PC?

      Only if it refuses to work with parts that are within specification, or requires ostensibly standard components be specifically manufactured to meet its non-standard requirements.

      That Sony vaio Desktop series (which feature some werid compatability issues) are also not PCs?

      Probably. Depends on the "issues", how much you're making up about them and whether they're just a common (and defined) variation of a parent standard.

      Face it - by your own definition, a mac is a PC.

      Which is a funny thing for you to say, because by several of *your* definitions thus far, a Mac _isn't_ a PC.

      Like I said. When I can do things like drop a bog-standard PCIe video card into a Mac and having it not work is an unusual and noteworthy event, rather than par for the course, you can say Macs are PCs. Until then, however, and while in some cases you still need to purchase Mac-specific hardware to have even a fighting chance at it working, they're still Macintoshes.

      Incidentally, if you want the definitive last word, why don't you ask Apple if they consider "Macintoshes" to be "PCs" ?

  7. I'm hoping for one of these... by rHBa · · Score: 1
    All this suggests that consumers looking for bargain gifts may opt for less-expensive gadgets such as cell phones, digital music players, video phones or noise-cancelling headphones.


    I'm hoping for one of these:

    http://www.presentsdirect.com/go/Product_1000625.h tml?categoryId=0
    1. Re:I'm hoping for one of these... by rHBa · · Score: 1

      I changed my mind, this would be much more appropriate:

      http://www.presentsdirect.com/go/Product_1000485.h tml?categoryId=0

    2. Re:I'm hoping for one of these... by SuperSlug · · Score: 1

      Where are my mod points. Too funny.

      --
      The information wants to be free, I just give it somewhere to go.
  8. The linux discount for Christmas '06 by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

    Maybe the way to get people into some new machines is to give them a genuinely new experience. You know the one with Ubuntu or SUSE installed, paying $50-100 less for that new PC, and no need for additional security software. Oh yeah...and no activation headaches.

    Call me an idealist but it has to happen at some point. Maybe price pressures and demand falling off will drive the linux and free software adoption we've all been waiting for.

    1. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by Shados · · Score: 1

      50-100$ less? thats almost the price of a freagin OEM disc. The last time I checked, I think OEM Windows on Dells and such is like, 10-20$, if that (its really an insignificant price, even if I don't have the exact number. Might even be less than that actualy).

    2. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by NPN_Transistor · · Score: 1

      PC manufacturers don't pay much for Windows, as mentioned in the previous post. If they pre-load Linux, chances are they'll lose their deal/discount with Microsoft that allows them to pay such low prices. So major PC manufacturers probably aren't going to start offering Linux PC's to the masses any time soon.

    3. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by hotdiggity · · Score: 1
      A PC gift for Christmas is typically a family gift: Mom and Dad use it for business stuff (or claim to), and kids use it to play games. It's the gift that kids like, and parents can justify purchasing for practical reasons.

      Little Timmy won't be very happy with the Linux box when he realizes that it won't run any of the popular new games out there. And all Daddy's explanations that Linux is cheaper, more stable, and more secure, isn't going to stop that terrible temper tantrum he's currently having on the floor in front of the tree.

      I suppose a Linux + Wii would make a good gift pair. But the family that afford that is not going to worry about the price of Microsoft anyway.

    4. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      Is that with or without all the money they get for installing crap-ware with the computer (yeah, they get paid to put all that trial and pure shit ware on the computers)? That's also not something that could be done with Linux, at least as much yet due to lack of partners, so they'd lose money as a result.

    5. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by Kamineko · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, folks. Linux comes with it's own set of headaches.

    6. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I suppose a Linux + Wii would make a good gift pair. But the family that afford that is not going to worry about the price of Microsoft anyway.

      No, they're getting a Mac, and someone "inherits" their latest-and-greatest pc, which after only 1 year of use, is so slow that they don't even want to hear about re-installing, malware, antiviruses, etc. And no, they don't want to hear about linx, because they were stupid enough to ignore my initial advice - again!!! and they paid extra for name-brand, instead of buying generic stuff that "just works."

    7. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by westlake · · Score: 1
      Oh yeah...and no activation headaches.

      Get real.

      Systems will ship OEM activated. Or it will be a one time, one click, event for the vast majority of users---who do not pull motherboards as often as they change their underwear and socks.

      You know the one with Ubuntu or SUSE installed, paying $50-100 less for that new PC.

      OEM Linux is dead and buried at Walmart.com.

      MSDOS and Windows have been in the home for twenty-five years. No one is going to trade that investment in hardware, software, peripherals and skills for the dubious pleasures of a migration to Linux, at least not in the numbers that make sense to the big box retailer.

      Nor is big box retail going to touch a Linux distro dependent on unlicensed media codecs. By the time you configure a system that is actually marketable to home users, the price differential simply disappears or shifts in favor of Windows.

      Call me an idealist but it has to happen at some point.

      No it doesn't.

      The home PC is a solidly middle class artifact, whose users are as unmoved by talk of free-as-in beer as they are by talk of free-as-in-speech.

    8. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by Holmwood · · Score: 1

      You're right that there are no activation headaches for the overwhelming majority of Windows users. Frankly, even for those of us who do swap mobos a lot, the headaches have been pretty minor. Not enough to make me switch completely away from Windows.

      But you're wrong in your arguments of no one trading "investment in hardware, software, peripherals". I've got hardware from 1987-2005, all of which will run (most of which is switched off), running or connected to computers that are running either Windows * or OS * or QNX or BSD. For fun, I played around with Knoppix Live, Linspire, and Ubuntu recently and was amazed at the level of support for hardware and devices. Pretty much the only hardware with serious problems was my old IBM PS/2 Model 50... a lot of people don't support the orphaned 16-bit Microchannel bus.

      "Nor is big box retail going to touch a Linux distro dependent on unlicensed media codecs."
      Very true. That's why Linspire and Freespire have licensed codecs.

      "By the time you configure a system that is actually marketable to home users, the price differential simply disappears or shifts in favor of Windows."
      Not so. Freespire, for example is free (though one variant is not completely open source). Linspire costs OEMs... what? $500 a year for as many installations as you like? That's maybe 10 or 20 copies of Windows OEM.

    9. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by westlake · · Score: 1
      But you're wrong in your arguments of no one trading "investment in hardware, software, peripherals

      office max had an external 160 GB USB drive on sale for $80.

      compatability with Windows isn't advertised, it is simply assummed to be part of the deal.

      Not so. Freespire, for example is free (though one variant is not completely open source). Linspire costs OEMs... what? $500 a year for as many installations as you like? That's maybe 10 or 20 copies of Windows OEM.

      There are enormous economies of scale in building for the Windows market.

      There is the prospect of significant after-market sales. You don't need to maintain dual inventories and support structures. Even Walmart in the end had to throw in the towel.

    10. Re:The linux discount for Christmas '06 by canuck57 · · Score: 1

      Call me an idealist but it has to happen at some point. Maybe price pressures and demand falling off will drive the linux and free software adoption we've all been waiting for.

      Make me wonder why PC memory is so expensive though. Anyone else notice they are high? PC, $500, 1GB aditioanl RAM, $180. Makes no sense.

  9. Not surprised by ShimmyShimmy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    PC makers will definitely feel the (lack of) heat this holiday season. Honestly, who would want to buy now? You get a computer installed with Windows XP, most likely with one of those "promise" certificates, that supposedly give you a free upgrade to Windows Vista. I remember when I got my own computer before moving into college. It was a disaster.
    This was Fall 2001. Windows XP wasn't quite out yet, but was more or less supposed to be. I got a Dell with Windows ME installed. In polite terms, it blew dick. My only hope was this certificate for a free upgrade to Windows XP Home Edition (not that I wanted Home). Well, this wasn't a license for WinXP. It was a promise. That Dell would bestow it upon me if they so desired. I called the tech support dept to see if they could do that. Oh wait, thats sales' job. I called sales. They dole me it was tech support's job. I called tech support back and they told me it still wasn't their job. 2 hours of tech support later, you can guess how far I got.
    After that much anguish, I still didn't get my copy of XP. For the record, my computer had coincidentally crashed during the time it took to get through to tech support. Worst purchase I ever made. I should have just waited. Good thing for Direct Connect/Kazaa getting me a real copy of what should have been on my computer when I got it.
    Even giving Dell the benefit of the doubt here, the best I could have asked for would be a clean install of XP Home. But most of the software that came with my computer was designed for FAT32 windows and not NT. If I wasn't a relatively prudent computer user, I would have been completely stumped. In fact, I knew my shit decently well, and I still had a nightmare.
    Buying a computer right before a big software release is a disaster waiting to happen. Unless you're specifically not planning to upgrade, you know you're going to get a lack of proper support (Why are ou trying to run XP? It says here that your Dell came with Windows ME?).
    Personally, I think you'd have to be stupid to buy a new computer at a time like this. With Vista's clusterf*ck, AMD's sluggish release of 65nm chips, and the Directx 10-related delays of the next-gen video cards from Nvidia and ATi (G80 and R600, respectively), why would you want to upgrade now? It would be stupid. If you want a Christmas present, get a gift certificate. If you want a *real* computer, wait till this crap get straightened out. Personally, I feel bad for the computer makers this season, but I can't recommend buying one for Christmas to anyone in their right minds.

    --
    Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
    "Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
    1. Re:Not surprised by SpatialVacancy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      >But most of the software that came with my computer was designed for FAT32 windows and not NT.

      Yeah I hate it when that happens. Oh wait, not. Do you mean NTFS? Either way this doesn't make sense.

      >If I wasn't a relatively prudent computer user, I would have been completely stumped.

      Yeah, good thing. Just upgrade to FAT64, man, haven't you heard that fixes all those problems?
      -D

    2. Re:Not surprised by krischik · · Score: 1

      That comment wasn't neccessary. If I had mod points you would be the first I ever modded down.

      You can't expect everybody do get all the computer acronyms right. And there where programms which have trouble with NTFS - mostly backup programms, system tools (at that time one still used norton utilities) and virus scanner. The same way that some programms - still - have problems with spaces in filenames. Modern OS's are far less forgiving with sluggish programming then the old where.

      I know of users who still use XP with FAT32.

      Martin

    3. Re:Not surprised by cerberusss · · Score: 1
      I called the tech support dept to see if they could do that. Oh wait, thats sales' job. I called sales. They dole me it was tech support's job. I called tech support back and they told me it still wasn't their job. 2 hours of tech support later, you can guess how far I got.
      I've handled this as follows. You call tech support and they say that it's sales. Then you first say, OK, what's your name. Write it down. Then you ask him to patch you through AFTER he's conferred with his sales colleague to make sure he's really the one who can help. If you still get hosed by sales, call the same tech support guy back and ask again. Keep calling the same person back.
      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    4. Re:Not surprised by necrogram · · Score: 1
      I don't know where to start with this.

      My only hope was this certificate for a free upgrade to Windows XP Home Edition (not that I wanted Home)

      Can you tell me what are the diffrences between Home and Pro? I'll give ya hint, very little. There's no code diffrence between them (same service pack for both). Your product id and the system call mmIsThisAnNTSystem() determine where it is pro or home and which additional features to activate.

      oftware that came with my computer was designed for FAT32 windows and not NT

      do you mean 9x, and not OS's that support FAT32? Or do you mean Fat32 vs. NTFS ? Outside of software that uses the low level system API's (think AV, FS Utils, etc), Most Win32 (the API used by 32 bit windows apps) don't really care where its NT or 9x. NT is just less forgiving of poorly written apps, you know the ones written by people who really dont think things through.

      With Vista's clusterf*ck, AMD's sluggish release of 65nm chips, and the Directx 10-related delays of the next-gen video cards from Nvidia and ATi (G80 and R600, respectively), why would you want to upgrade now? It would be stupid. If you want a Christmas present, get a gift certificate. If you want a *real* computer, wait till this crap get straightened out.

      Such enlightened advice. What diffrence does AMD's supply issues and next-gen vid cards make for Joe SixPack the home users? The one's caring about DX10 and the fab process used by in their cpu's probably won't be buying something off Best Buy's shelves.

    5. Re:Not surprised by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      You probably ought to be able to expect a post on Slashdot won't be filled with inane technobabble. If I wanted that, I'd go watch "The Net" and cheer as Sandra Bullock beats the bad guys with her super skills.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    6. Re:Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeebus living fark you're annoying..

      Can you tell me what are the diffrences between Home and Pro? I'll give ya hint, very little. There's no code diffrence between them (same service pack for both). Your product id and the system call mmIsThisAnNTSystem() determine where it is pro or home and which additional features to activate.

      Come back to me when Home joins a Domain out of the box. Same code, sure, but one is crippleware.

      do you mean 9x, and not OS's that support FAT32? Or do you mean Fat32 vs. NTFS ? Outside of software that uses the low level system API's (think AV, FS Utils, etc), Most Win32 (the API used by 32 bit windows apps) don't really care where its NT or 9x. NT is just less forgiving of poorly written apps, you know the ones written by people who really dont think things through.

      Actually, it sounds like the poster bought a Dell, which would have had extra Dell apps installed. I would be less than surprised to hear that the Dell bloatware apps that were preloaded on an ME machine might mess with an XP upgrade.

      You, good sir, suck.

    7. Re:Not surprised by usucdik · · Score: 0

      Home users on a domain? Ok dude, keep wasting our time with this drivel.

    8. Re:Not surprised by necrogram · · Score: 1
      Jeebus living fark you're annoying..

      (snipped)

      Come back to me when Home joins a Domain out of the box. Same code, sure, but one is crippleware.
      You're 100%, home is crippleware for the audience it was intended for. Home users need to connect their workstations to an Active Directory Domain, or muck about with NTFS permissions. You're right, MS miss the boat on that one. It never would occur to you that this would even fit a business model . Its not like home is lacking features that the previous products targeted for home users had. Hell, I love 98's group policy support. Also I miss how ME can be authenticated by a domain. And before you spazz, ME can have users logging in authenticate against a domain, but that machine cant authenticate that is is the proper domain, nor can the domain authenticate that workstation as being the real deal.
  10. Just how many computers can we buy? by daeg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even tough technology is still improving, just how often are computer manufacturers expecting consumers to purchase a brand new PC? It sounds to me that the slowing growth is more in part due to market saturation than anything else. Computer sales have enjoyed double digit growth through more difficult times than these (Windows ME fiasco, I.LOVE.YOU viruses, massive job loss in the bubble burst, terror attacks and wars, various US and foreign stock upsets, etc).

    I am thinking the sources behind this article have stock in Dell and other afflicted manufaturers. Dell will probably see a short-term loss of laptop sales due to their bad press from the exploding batteries. What better way to hedge your losses than say the entire laptop market is slowing in growth, rather than Dell simply losing sales to a competitor? It'll take months for the actual sales numbers to come in, and by then everyone will have forgotten about these stories.

    Be wary of any such article around crucial marketing periods like the winter holidays (just as you should be cautious of TV execs hyping up their shows during sweeps periods). Many brokers and firms can make-or-break a large profits during the next two months, all hinging on how well they predicted holiday sales figures from earlier in the year, and not everyone is a neutral party.

    1. Re:Just how many computers can we buy? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Even tough technology is still improving, just how often are computer manufacturers expecting consumers to purchase a brand new PC? It sounds to me that the slowing growth is more in part due to market saturation than anything else. Computer sales have enjoyed double digit growth through more difficult times than these (Windows ME fiasco, I.LOVE.YOU viruses, massive job loss in the bubble burst, terror attacks and wars, various US and foreign stock upsets, etc).

      The bigger issue is that PC speed increases have slowed dramatically over the past 6 years. Back in the mid-late 90s, performance doubled every 12-15 months and that 3 year old machine was in drastic need of replacement. (Since it performed close to an order of magnitude slower then a brand new machine.)

      Now look at the rate of increase from 2002-2006 (excluding multi-core). A 2002 machine is still about half as fast as a 2006 machine. So there's no huge incentive to upgrade if your machine was made in 2002 or later. Only gamers and other CPU-hungry users are upgrading more often then every 5 years. A lot of companies are moving from replacing machines every 3 years to only replacing them every 5-7 years.

      Multi-core is changing the landscape slightly. With the lower-prices on dual-core, and if you don't want to deal with Vista until 2008-2009 (or after the 1st or 2nd service pack comes out), it's a good time to build a dual-core WinXP machine. You'll get a machine that will last 5-8 years for only $1000 (including MS Office software) with 2GB of RAM and dual-core. With luck you can probably even stretch that lifespan out to 10-12 years.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  11. What? by LeRaldo · · Score: 1
    According to market researcher IDC, PC shipment growth slowed to 7.9 percent in the third quarter, from double-digit percentage growth in the prior three years. .. All this suggests that consumers looking for bargain gifts may opt for less-expensive gadgets such as cell phones, digital music players, video phones or noise-cancelling headphones."
    It suggests to me that a lot of people already have computers, and many of them probably aren't looking to upgrade. Why does it always have to be a different excuse?
    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of people who wanted it already had my dick, and many of them probably aren't looking to "upgrade." Indeed, the market has been saturated with it and if you'd close your eyes and open your mouth, I'd saturate that too.

    2. Re:What? by arth1 · · Score: 1
      It suggests to me that a lot of people already have computers, and many of them probably aren't looking to upgrade. Why does it always have to be a different excuse?

      Upgrade is fair enough, but lately, the main players, Intel and AMD, have made it exceedingly difficult to upgrade, and the only real option is to replace. I'm sure that AMD and Intel counted on us tossing out our less-than-a-year old computers and buying new ones because upgrades aren't available anymore, but I'm not surprised that this tactic failed.

      Yes, AM2 is better than Socket 939. That doesn't mean there isn't a big market for a 2.8+ GHz socket 939 CPU, nor that people are happy to toss their almost new motherboards and RAM too when buying a new CPU. I can understand Intel changing sockets all the time, since they actually make money on chipsets too, and get money for most motherboard sales, but what's AMD's excuse for shortening the life cycles?

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    3. Re:What? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I think the parent poster got that right in it's own context. For normal users "upgrade" does mean getting a new computer. Don't forget that. I found a P-IV 1.9GHz/512Meg RAM in a dumpster for crying out loud! That is more than enough to run anything you need as a basic home user, yet somewhere someone decided that the machine had to be "upgraded". Heck, the machine of my wife was't far of that! (Until I "upgraded" it in the real sense of the word. 512Meg to 2Gig is a nice upgrade ;-) )

      Dumpster divers, like me, have glorious times ahead! :-D

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    4. Re:What? by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      exactly. I have pretty much topped out on my video card. But no one is making high end AGP cards anymore. sooo. i have to move to PCIe. new mobo/cpu/ram. probably might as well get some sata drives while i'm at it. did i mention a new PCIe video card? Which is the only component i WANTED to upgrade anyway. I'm holding of until 2q 2007 to see what core2 prices do, but with the cost of Vista Ultimate, it may be cheaper to just buy a complete system. And no i'm not running some ancient system. Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM... would still need another gig to run vista well. We're at one of those points where 'upgrade' is just not practical.

  12. #1 by vindimy · · Score: 1

    they should get a mac instead! wohoo i'm number one!

  13. trust pc makers? by vindimy · · Score: 1

    i've never trusted pc makers. they constantly put the cheapest possible parts in their products in order to minimize costs. but for some reason, when i compare a cost of pc versus the cost of all of its parts, the pc always costs more. even though i know that i'll get tons of bloatware and other shit that i don't need with my new pc. their excuse for bloatware is that it will reduce cost of the pc to the user. yeah right, it will make pc makers' pockets larger, that's it.

    do you know what a cheaply manufactured part does to the pc? creates a bottleneck. a power supply that is poorly made will not deliver clean voltage to the devices, which will cause various very subtle problems that are hard to diagnose and impossible to prove when claiming a warranty!

    oh, also.. most pc's come with windows pre-installed. you're paying for windows without even knowing it! do you really need windows? most of slashdot users would have to say "no!", right? they're happily running their open source apps on their open source OS's.

    want to have a pc that is fast, quiet, trouble-free, and easy to upgrade? go to newegg and get the damn parts! that'll save you about 30% of the cost. plus you'll know what you're getting. buy with future upgrades in mind. for example, choose a dual-socket motherboard or larger power supply. and if you're having trouble deciding what parts to buy, go to hardware guys and read their recommendations (you can trust them).

    who in the hell would want a ready-built computer for him/herself? technology is so good right now, assembling one is easier than ever...

    1. Re:trust pc makers? by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      Most people who buy a computer as a Christmas present are not the kind of people that build their own units. I totally agree that building your own is the way to go, but most people are (for no good reason) scared or unwilling to do so.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    2. Re:trust pc makers? by hankwang · · Score: 1
      I totally agree that building your own is the way to go, but most people are (for no good reason) scared or unwilling to do so.

      Why? To build your own system you have to know exactly which CPU will work together with which motherboard; you need a stock of those tiny screws for mounting drives and if it doesn't work because of hardware incompatibility, because you zapped a component with a static discharge, or because you just bent a pin the first time you inserted a CPU, you're on your own. There are plenty of shops which will let you configure your own system and take their responsibility for component prices plus $50 assembling costs. At least, here in Netherlands, we have these shops.

    3. Re:trust pc makers? by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      I assemble my own machines because even in the case of the component-cost-plus-$50 type stores (they exist here too) I'd rather do it myself and save the $50. I'll work for $50 an hour, won't you?

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    4. Re:trust pc makers? by CyDharttha · · Score: 1

      The general populace cannot properly build a PC. I have experienced firsthand the results of someone trying to build their own PC, time and time again. There are just too many things that can go wrong. But they should not have to settle for Dell if they do not want. That makes it my job to select quality brand name parts and assemble a quality PC, and if a person wants a $300 PC, then that's what I will build for them. If they want a $600 PC, ok. The more you pay, the more power.

      Of course, the other great choice to be offered is Linux, or Windows, or both? Dual boot, VMWare Player, or both? I have now 250 customers, many local, a few not, who enjoy their linux PC and receive tech support and software updates from me, free for the first year, or longer if they wish (for extra $$).

      Right now many of my customers are enjoying their new 3D accelerated desktops (video!), and hopefully everyone will have this by christmas. Flash player 9 is also going on select customer desktops, those who are comfortable trying out new software which is not official. All of my customers recieve emails describing services from rhapsody.com, emusic.com, abc.com, new features from KDE and related software (amarok!), and other news of interest.

      The main theme here is support. It should not be as difficult as it is with Dell. I think it should be more personal, and that is what i hope to offer. That and, of course, a better quality PC than can be found elsewhere. That, above all, is why I entered this business.. working on Dell, Gateway and Compaq etc PCs for years left me wanting something more for my customers, like quality name brand parts, painless and inexpensive hardware and software updates, and of course, personalized tech support.

    5. Re:trust pc makers? by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      who in the hell would want a ready-built computer for him/herself?

      I nominate this for shortsighted thought of the day.

    6. Re:trust pc makers? by canuck57 · · Score: 1

      who in the hell would want a ready-built computer for him/herself? technology is so good right now, assembling one is easier than ever.

      Your kidding right?

      PC componet distributors prices make it pretty hard to beat and packaged (with credible warranty) system from a local store. I have built some 9 or more systems in my day but can't beat what they do today. Hard rives seem cheap but memory is priced stupid.

      Ya, 98% of the PCs ship with "shared" video, which we all know is CRAP. Saves them $10 in a couple of memory chips. But the smart buyer will consider it if it is cheap enough. Then get a decent PCI-e card and slap it in to disable shared memory.

      The last one I built was based on a Intel PERL motherboard from Intel, and a P4 2.8GHz HT that crapped out just outside of warranty. Mobo died I think.

      Even though my most recent purchase, and AMD 64 X2 (ASUS mobo inside) I was going to load Linux on it, and never run Windows on it, it was cheaper to get another unused Microsoft tax stub than another vendor who would provide the same system minus Windows that would be just what I would build, but cost even more.

      The only reason to do it is if your a hobbiest.

    7. Re:trust pc makers? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      To build your own system you have to know exactly which CPU will work together with which motherboard

      Nonsense... go with a motherboard bundle from a shop like MWave.com where they'll put together the bundle (and test it) for only $9. Well worth it (and I build half a dozen systems per year) because they do the research leg work for me.

      Cases come with bags of screws (Antec, Lian Li).

      You can do a dual-core, 2GB RAM machine for about $600 assuming all new parts. Office Pro and WinXP Pro will add another $430 to the price. The key components will have a 3 year warranty and you can shop around for decent warranties on the rest. If you want a good video card, you can drop one in for around $150.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    8. Re:trust pc makers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      green pc's are reasonable at 60 watts when active will reduce y0ur energy cost, which beats out 400watts. I dislike the fact that new pc's are using so much energy, even though there is a choice of the lower wattage. I'd like to see more embedded linux development and inexpensivley priced larger screens with higher screen resolutions. What we need is a full fleged gpl'd embedded linux distribution that runs on some legacy hardware.

    9. Re:trust pc makers? by kiwimate · · Score: 1
      when i compare a cost of pc versus the cost of all of its parts, the pc always costs more

      Yeah, really? I'd like to see that...the cost of buying components in massive bulk versus me buying them one off. Mind you, I gave up comparing a couple of years ago, for two reasons:

      • I could never make it cheaper than going to Dell
      • The next bit just below

      who in the hell would want a ready-built computer for him/herself?

      Me. It easily will take two hours to sort through the myriad of options on-line, and then, once the stuff arrives, put it all together. And I've done it so many times over so many years, going back to the days when I had to set jumpers to pick the IRQ and remember which IRQ was LPT 1 and COM 1/3 and COM 2/4, it's just not fun any more.

      It's definitely not fun enough given that I don't want the latest screaming hard core game machine...99% of what I use them for at home is web browsing and Office. I don't play games, I don't code in my spare time, so a cheap Dell is plenty of power for me, as cheap as anything I can piece together from parts on-line, and I can take the two or three hours I've just saved and play with my three year old daughter instead. For me, that's a win.
  14. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by usucdik · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Boy you sure love to drone on, and about stuff you don't really know that much about. So you had a bad experience with an OEM deal. Well... that doesn't translate into all of the proposed problems people would be having if they bought a PC right now.

    WinME was a piece of garbage anyway, getting that was a terrible decision on its own. XP to Vista isn't quite the same; it all depends on how you use your PC and what range it fits in.

    You mention something about software being designed for FAT32. I have no clue what that is all about, but I am sure it is total malarkey. First of all, mentioning FAT32 and NT in the same breath is just a mistake, as they are completely different types of technology. There are two ways to take it, either dealing with hard drives or the compatibility between 9x and 2000/XP. Of course XP support was a bit spotty in the beginning, it was just recently released for home users instead of workstations/servers. Any fresh OS (or architecture, e.g. 64-bit) is bound to have some hiccups.

    But despite these things, I hope you're not saying we should wait until Vista is over a year old. Waiting for the right moment is fine, but things change way too fast to really have that perfect timing. Just look at DirectX support; the technology comes out but then it takes a while before it is all that useful and has hardware powerful enough to handle it well.

    I'd even be willing to say that now is as good a time as ever to get a new PC, especially with Core 2 doing so well. Then you have plenty of time before these new items really settle into the market. Plus who wants a POS OEM "Basic Vista" that only lets you run 3 programs at a time anyway.

  15. And you know what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the OLPC would be a great gift. But hey, what do I know?

  16. Headphones? by Petronius.Scribe · · Score: 1
    All this suggests that consumers looking for bargain gifts may opt for less-expensive gadgets such as cell phones, digital music players, video phones or noise-cancelling headphones.

    Noise-cancelling headphones? Yes, I can see it now... "I was thinking of buying a new PC, but I heard the battery can explode, so instead I'll buy noise-cancelling headphones".

  17. Beleaguered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quick, somebody get on a 'beleaguered Dell' story

  18. RAM Prices by Mike89 · · Score: 1

    I was just about to build an all-new PC, then RAM prices skyrocketed. It's ridiculous, getting 2 gb costs like $70 more in Australia now.

    1. Re:RAM Prices by canuck57 · · Score: 1

      I was just about to build an all-new PC, then RAM prices skyrocketed. It's ridiculous, getting 2 gb costs like $70 more in Australia now.

      I guess they are price fixing again. Likely stockpiling the memory chips for the Vista roll out. Seems higher now for the same bytes as it did 3 years ago. My guess is after Vista splashes and another price fixing suit threat they will fall.

      http://news.com.com/Government+finds+witness+in+ RAM+price-fixing+probe/2100-1004_3-5347423.html

      And old story, but still valid. I guess price fixing is lucrative in spite of the fines.

  19. Noise cancelling headphones? by Matilda+the+Hun · · Score: 1

    I can just hear the advertisements: "Bose Noise-canceling headphones: For when you don't want to hear your roommate's laptop exploding!" I think it has potential.

    --
    Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
    1. Re:Noise cancelling headphones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can just hear the advertisements: "Bose Noise-canceling headphones: For when you don't want to hear your roommate's laptop exploding!"

      Sales will also be slow among the slashdot crowd, as they don't have wives.

    2. Re:Noise cancelling headphones? by greylion3 · · Score: 1
      For when you don't want to hear your roommate's laptop exploding

      That's definitely one of the things you DO want to hear - especially if (s)he's not home, so you can put the fire out before it has time to spread and burn the whole place down.
      --
      Privacy begins with ..
  20. Good news for me! by Channard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because as an employee of a major computer chain, who's not on commission, and given that I don't have any plans to stay the industry all that much longer, it's great news. The less busy Boxing Day and Christmas is the better.

    1. Re:Good news for me! by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Unless they hear this news as well and lay you off today. Figuring well there wont be much work and this guy isn't willing to stick around. Might as well lay him off now. What people tend to forget especially when they are contemplating a career change is that the job that you are currently doing for a living is what pays the bills or at least makes you life outside of work just a little bit easier. Wishing for the company you are currently working at to fail is hazardous because first if you Boss see you less motivated then they may not want to keep you there. Then you loose you income until you find an other job. Next if it company does fail you loose you job as well. I know it is nice during the busy season not to have as much work to do but remember it is a Job it helps pay the bills. None of this liberal "If the job doesn't make me happy all the time I should Quit" Crap. Yes you should strive for a job that will make you happy but if you cant get there today you will need to work at jobs that will make you unhappy until you can work you way up to the job you want to have.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  21. Is this capitalism? by iamacat · · Score: 1

    A dozen or so big corporations can not come up with a PC, sold now, that will be adequately functional/exciting with the operating system sold next year. Apple never (in recent history) had this problem - the same hardware runs at least 3 revisions of OS, and in fact keeps running successive versions faster. Neither does the next upgrade of Ubuntu break systems sold a couple of years ago. Governments/people should recognize the problem and take measures to restore real competition that meets market opportunities. Breaking up Microsoft into an OS and an application companies as originally planed would go a long way.

    1. Re:Is this capitalism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard the latest Ubuntu upgrade broke systems regardless of how old they were...

    2. Re:Is this capitalism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course then we still have the whole OS monopoly issue...

      I think the better option would be to split the Windows division up into several Windows-like operating systems and/or open up the APIs and protocols to help foster some competition in the market. That is what capitalism is all about, right?

    3. Re:Is this capitalism? by NineNine · · Score: 1

      What a complete load of horse shit. I can go down to my local thrift shop, spend $25, and get a PC that will run DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT 3.51, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000, or Windows XP without a problem. Ubuntu won't install 3/4 of the time on generic old PC's that I've tried, and OSX certainly won't. What kind of crack are you smoking?

    4. Re:Is this capitalism? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      A dozen or so big corporations can not come up with a PC, sold now, that will be adequately functional/exciting with the operating system sold next year.

      Oh rubbish. Vista Beta 2 ran just fine on the PC I built myself from components in February.

    5. Re:Is this capitalism? by iamacat · · Score: 1

      You are not a big corporation. Dell was still selling Intel integrated graphics consumer PCs with 256MB RAM in February.

    6. Re:Is this capitalism? by iamacat · · Score: 1

      Except that holiday shoppers don't want an $25 PC from a thrift shop. They want an $500 new PC that will run snappy Aero and play HD movies.

  22. 7.9 percent growth! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That means they sold MORE PCs than last quarter. You know, it already counts against capitalism that it depends on growth for stability. Now the growth has to grow to make everybody happy?

  23. Yeah, right by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

    You're kidding, right? You know what people want? They want a beautiful-as-hell UI, which is what OS X comes with. I mean, Aqua is so damn good it made me my morning coffee today. And I'm not talking about regular coffee; Apple has made a deal with Sun and now they ship their own flavor of Java, which is like, all integrated and stuff. That makes for some damn fucking good coffee. It even _looks_ better than regular coffee.

    You know what people want? They want Adobe Photo-fucking-shop. They want Quark Goddamn Express. World of Motherfucking Warcraft. That's the shit they crave and that's what OS X is fucking filled to the brim with. I mean, it's so damn good I developed Tourette Fucking Syndrome just thinking about using something else. It's like REAL ultimate power, just with less stabbing and more damn eye-candy.


    PS: As for the superior speed: I just ran a benchmark and the dual 3 GHz Xeon Mac Pro ran circles around the Unix system I compared it with (a Sun Blade 150 workstation), thus OS X must be the most efficient operating system in existence. qed.

    --
    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    1. Re:Yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misspelled, "I am a cunt-hole."

  24. Apple needs to develop a migration tool by gelfling · · Score: 1

    If Apple develops a consumer brainless one button fail safe migration utility to take every doc, bookmark, photo, song and whatnot from a PC to a Mac and have them run 100% right out of the box, then that is the killer app. Given the price differential between a new Apple and the projected incremental cost of a Vista capable there is no longer any disadvantage in going Mac.

    1. Re:Apple needs to develop a migration tool by dfghjk · · Score: 0

      "Given the price differential between a new Apple and the projected incremental cost of a Vista capable there is no longer any disadvantage in going Mac."

      Of course there is. There's a million of them and they're all the PC apps people have that don't run on a mac. Then there's personal preference (which only mac people think is entirely in favor of the mac) not to mention that no one is obligated to upgrade to Vista. Just what is the "projected incremental cost" of Vista compatible hardware anyway? The machines I own are all capable of running it already. I thought that macs weren't more expensive?

      Apple won't be developing that tool in any case (at least not one that works as you say).

  25. money-cash-moolah by zogger · · Score: 1

    Are you talking about buying a computer or just a fancy electronic wrapper for a microsoft product? The computer prices I am seeing in my local sales flyers are pretty good and I expect them to get even cheaper soon. For people who don't build their own systems and just get bundles, this looks to be a good "sales" season. Maybe not good overall for the computer companies, but for the consumer who wants a deal it's fine. And even if you run just all windows, who cares? Wait a bit into the new year, then go buy one cheap component online (a new mouse or something) and get an oem vista disk for cheap, that's usually been available in the past like that. It's always the opposite from the financial reporting sites. Bad for the big companies=good for the consumer. Just like new cars now, the manufacturers (for most models, not all but most) are sitting on inventory (last I read was 75 days backlog, instead of normal 50-60 days max) and offereng a ton of incentives, zero percent finance, cash off, etc, to move those units.

  26. Might buy now, but I'd be wary by jgennick · · Score: 1

    I somewhat agree with ShimmyShimmy. I am wary of purchasing a new PC before such a major upgrade as Vista. That said, I did purchase a Win 3.1 machine just prior to Win 95, and that upgrade went ok for me. Compaq sent me an upgrade CD that took my machine to Win 95, and the only software issue I recalled hitting was that all my software still used short filenames. And that was not a very significant issue. In fact, I'd have likely hit that issue anyway.

    Where that Win95 upgrade caused pain later were all those times over the years that I had to reinstall Windows. Each time, I had to put on 3.1 first, and then run the upgrade to Win 95. What a pain that was. I was so happy the day I decided to throw that PC into the dump. (I ran it for many, many years though).

    Now I'm faced with the same dilema about buying just before a major release. I want a new laptop. And as if the looming release of Vista isn't enough on its own to give me pause, I see that Vista comes in five(!) flavors. So Vista is not Vista is not Vista. My daughter runs a Mac, and at least in that world OS X is OS X is OS X. Maybe I'll buy a Macbook this time around. The current crop of Macbooks is very nicely done. I like them.

    If I get a good price on a new laptop, I might take the plunge this year. Otherwise, I'm going to sit back and wait a bit. Fortunately, while I do need something eventually, I'm not under any great time-pressure to buy now.

    My daughter wants to replace her iBook with a Macbook. She's waiting for Leopard. So that means next year for her too.

    My son just got a new gaming console and decided to just quit gaming on the PC altogether. He is trading me his desktop for my old laptop so that he has something for email and the web. None of his friends game on a PC anymore. All the kids that I know have gone to consoles.

    All our PCs still actually work for what we do with them. If push came to shove, we really don't need anything new. I suspect a lot of people are in that position. It just is not necessary these days to upgrade all that often, not for most people.

    So yeah, I can see why the PC sales might slump a bit over the next couple of months. And book sales too. I work for a publisher. In general, the whole computer book publishing industry is counting on Vista to drive a nice bunch of book sales. Anything that happens with Vista has quite the ripple effect.

  27. Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    PC technology is getting more mature so I'm not surprised to see sales flatten out. Home computers were already far more powerful than the average person ever needed almost ten years ago. Today they're over-powered to the point the average user can get by years longer before there's compelling reason to buy a new machine.

    I would consider myself a power user, built all my own PC's. Some of them are going on five years old and there's no compelling reason to upgrade them. I can work, play games, watch TV or movies...why do I need a new computer? Okay, they're not the hottest and fastest boxes on the market. So what? They're fast enough for me. The weak link in the PC interface is sitting in the chair. No matter how fast a PC is, absolute speed is going to be limited at some point by the user. You can only type so fast and take in so much information. Any mid-range machine today can stay ahead of the user in terms of information flow.

    Another trend impacting white box PC sales is the proliferation of specialty PC devices like game consoles, mp3 players and appliances like Blackberry. Those off-load what were traditional PC tasks. Where did PC makers think the growth was going to come from? If they think they have it bad now, just wait until the $100.00 laptops (now $175.00 I think) start flooding the market.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by chromozone · · Score: 1

      I would agree computers dont need more power for e-mails and web browsing etc. But using Windows Movie Maker with a new Core 2 Duo instead of a Pentium 4 1.8 makes a world of difference. The fact that I can do more with Core 2 Duo while not using up all the power of a Pentium 4 makes Core 2 Duo a very worthwhile upgrade right now. I know "Quad Core" is coming out but they will be three times as expensive as an E6600. Even Intel has said dual core is where it will be at for awhile. If you build your own system you can have a nice Core 2 Duo system for around 1000 USD. I don't want Vista right away so I didnt mind paying 100 USD for Media Center Edition (OEM @ Newegg).

    2. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      I don't consider 8% growth as "flat" or even close to "flattening". No market can grow double digits forever. Eight percent growth isn't enough to start going chicken little on us.

    3. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by roseblood · · Score: 1

      I can work, play games, watch TV or movies...why do I need a new computer?

      You can do the same work you did 5 years ago. Watch the same TV channels you watched 5 years ago. View movies at the same resolution as you did five years ago. You play the same five year old games. When you want to do something new you will find some part of your system lacking (give that you mentioned games I'd bet on the video card first.)

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    4. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by toddestan · · Score: 1

      A high end machine in 2001 would be something along the lines of an Athlon XP, Geforce 3 video card, 7200RPM hardrive, and 512MB-1GB of DDR memory. A well put together machine from 2001 will still outperform a low end machine today, overall. I knew people who played WoW on machines like this until recently. A few upgrades over the years (more memory, a better AGP graphics card, and a Barton processor) would make this machine still comprable to a lower-mid range 2006 machine, many of which are still single core, 512MB of memory, and with low end or integrated graphics.

    5. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by roseblood · · Score: 1

      Computers in the under $600 category sell like hotcakes to the non-gamer community. Five years ago you could play games with the integrated GFX processor. Today even kids games (Lego Star Wars II) needs a dedicated GFX card (a nice ATI RADEON card from five years ago I used for better-than-basic gaming is not enough to run the game, it's too old to be supported hardware. Wish my wife would have consulted with me on the game buying for our oldest son, going to have to get a new motherboard[up to pci-express or at least agp] and new gfx card to upgrade the kids computer to the point where it can run that game. I think it'll be cheaper to exchange the game for the PS2 version+buy a ps2 than upgrading the kids machine.) Email and the web are still going to be easy on the box, but games are quite a bit more demanding than they used to be.

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    6. Re:Flat hardware sales shouldn't be a surprise by toddestan · · Score: 1

      With games like Lego Star Wars, which wants a graphics card but it doesn't need to be super high end, I've had pretty good luck with PCI graphics cards. You can get a Radeon 9200 series or a GeForce 5200 for about $60 with dual head and DVI out. While it won't be quite as fast as their respective AGP or PCI-X version, they seem to be plenty fast enough.

  28. Headphones?-choices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well with the rising costs of RAM, memory is out of the question. My choices are...A HDTV card (but none offer FM or a MPEG chip), a digital camera (decisions, decisions), a VCR/DVD player/recorder. Now as far as PC's are concerned. Why get a new one when used PCs are so cheap. I got a HP Pavillion 8756C running XP for $10.00 and I can make a server out of that (any good Linux server distributions?). Throw in the practically brand-new ($12.99) Epson CX4600 (should work with Linux) and I'm going to have a nice Christmas. :)

    1. Re:Headphones?-choices. by ben+there... · · Score: 1

      "A HDTV card (but none offer FM or a MPEG chip)"

      You don't need an MPEG encoder for HDTV. You're just grabbing the MPEG-2 transport stream that is already encoded.

    2. Re:Headphones?-choices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're going to have to have some kind of compression. I don't think the PC can handle the amount of data involved.

    3. Re:Headphones?-choices. by ben+there... · · Score: 1

      That's what I was saying. It's already compressed. See ATSC Codecs & Modulation and Transmission. The maximum bandwidth for cable HDTV is ~40 Mbps total. Most video streams are about half that. Even old PCs and hard drives can cope with that.

  29. Snap. by matt+me · · Score: 1

    I had ME installed, thought I would upgrade to XP..
    apt-get dist-upgrade
    dependancy nightmare!

  30. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

    His box came with win9x+fat32 installed, and a "promised upgrade" to xp home+ntfx, which we all know just doesn't work.

    I remember people replacing their motherboards, their cpus, their video cards, their power supplies, thinking it must have been some sort of hardware problem when they couldn't get both a fat32 and an ntfs partition to co-exist without BSODs every 5 minutes.

  31. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by necrogram · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile i think back to days of old when your standard config for an NT4 server (remember XP is NT 5.1) was a 2GB fat partition to boot and everything NTFS. The Pair of 4200's (NT4 SP6) I have running this way today with this config are now where near as stable as they should be (years of uptime).

  32. Or ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last chance to buy a computer with XP on it.

    This is not the same thing as getting screwed with WinME. This time around Vista is the screw.

    Well, actually XP was the screw too but hey.... that's Microsoft :)

  33. Service pack 0 by williambbertram · · Score: 1
    I won't be buying Microsoft anything service pack 0. Sorry. In Microsoft language, service pack 0 is beta quality at best.


    Take the one year old slow computer (from last Christmas), which in reality probably just has spyware and virus problems, and install a good desktop Linux OS like Ubuntu. Then next Christmas when the computer still works you can smile and give them a fruit cake.

  34. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by usucdik · · Score: 0

    I fail to see where any kind of validity to this post is. I used combinations of FAT and NTFS for a while, even upgrading from 98 to ME to 2000 and even once or twice to XP. Sounds like some serious user error going on here if you can't get two completely compatible file systems to coincide on the same machine.

  35. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

    I fail to see where any kind of validity to this post is. I used combinations of FAT and NTFS for a while, even upgrading from 98 to ME to 2000 and even once or twice to XP. Sounds like some serious user error going on here if you can't get two completely compatible file systems to coincide on the same machine.
    1. Its not a user problem when a patch solves it. Of course, how are you supposed to get the patch if your machine continually BSODs ...
    2. no, fat32 and ntfs are nowhere near compatible.
  36. Really that bad? by ChadL · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who thinks that 7.9% growth in shipments is still quite large?
    I really don't see what the problem is, as you can not expect to have 10% growth in shipments every year. I can't think of any other industry that would say a 7.9% growth rate is killing them...

    1. Re:Really that bad? by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

      ...the tobacco industry, perhaps?

    2. Re:Really that bad? by teknomage1 · · Score: 1

      I can't think of any other industry that would say a 7.9% growth rate is killing them...

      What about tombstone carvers?

      --
      Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
  37. The conclusion as to why is stupid by porkThreeWays · · Score: 1

    The reason PC sales are slowing is because the economy in general is slowing. There are many forecasts for a recession in 2007. Unnecessary technology would be one of the first things to go in a slowing economy.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:The conclusion as to why is stupid by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      However, I expect sales of portable music players to be strong for quite some time, especially with the new Apple iPod Shuffle (2G) and the plethora of 1 GB/2 GB portable music players at US$100 or less.

    2. Re:The conclusion as to why is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PC sales aren't slowing. They're growing less fast.

    3. Re:The conclusion as to why is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      They're growing less fast.

      And that happens to be a synonym for... slowing! Slowing is different from shrinking.

  38. The Multicore Wars by TerranFury · · Score: 1

    A lot of posters have said that people aren't buying new PCs because what they have is fast enough. Those posters are right. But there still do exist people who, for whatever reason, would like a new computer. Laptops, for instance, don't last forever.

    Those people, if they are wise, are waiting for the dust to settle after the mulicore wars.

    Processor technology had been stagnating, but now competition is heating up again between Intel and AMD. If I buy this year, something significantly better may come out the next! I don't expect that high rate-of-change to continue for long, but there is obvious work (like Intel developing a real crossbar) that has to happen before it's over with. I'll wait until they've finished.

    1. Re:The Multicore Wars by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Actually, right now Intel is leading with their excellent Core 2 Duo CPU's. Extremely fast, very efficient in instructions processed per CPU clock cycle, and decently cool running, that's why Apple chose the Core 2 Duo for most of their Macintosh line.

      And customers who do a lot of multimedia editing now enjoy the benefits of dual-core CPU technology, too. Dual cores make it possible to edit still images from digital still cameras, video from MiniDV/MicroDV camcorders, and audio far faster than ever before.

    2. Re:The Multicore Wars by TerranFury · · Score: 1

      >Dual cores make it possible to edit still images from digital still cameras, video from MiniDV/MicroDV camcorders, and audio far faster than ever before.

      Do you by any chance... work for Intel? ;-)

      >Actually, right now Intel is leading with their excellent Core 2 Duo CPU's. Extremely fast, very efficient in instructions processed per CPU clock cycle, and decently cool running...

      You're right, of course, that Intel is in the lead right now. But that's the whole point: AMD had been in the lead for a while; now Intel is; competition has increased again. Just as you don't want to buy stocks after they've finished going up, you don't want to buy technology until it has leveled off for a bit.

      Intel has a few advantages: A more advanced lithography process for instance. But AMD has a better crossbar; Intel just has the cores share the FSB. So I'd like to see Intel improve their architecture and AMD start rolling out chips with a newer process. I can wait for that to happen. For now, what I have is good enough.

      >that's why Apple chose the Core 2 Duo for most of their Macintosh line.

      Is it? I heard IBM (who was producing the PPC chips) and Apple had a falling out for business and logistical reasons (including pricing). Of course, IBM may be regretting that decision, as they just laid off a bunch of their PPC guys. But then, Intel also had a big round of layofffs -- bigger than IBM's. So it's hard to tell who got the short end of the stick. But whatever it was, I'm pretty sure it was about more than benchmarks.

  39. My opinion on this by Salsaman · · Score: 1

    PC component makers have become lazy. Four years ago I built myself a 2.8GHz P4 machine with 512MB RAM, and that would still be considered "high end" today.

    Where are the 10GHz CPUs ? Where are even the 5GHz CPUs ? Where are the 8 or 16GB RAM machines ? Have the component-makers stopped improving ?

    No wonder people are not buying, it seems like PC technology stopped improving 4 years ago.

    1. Re:My opinion on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > No wonder people are not buying, it seems like PC technology stopped improving 4 years ago.

      Not true. The only problem is that the many improvements they have made have been useless to most users.
      64-bit CPUs - irrelevant, almost all software is 32-bit.
      Multicore - minor improvement, most software will only use 1 core.
      DDR2 and Dual Channel RAM - minor improvement, old-style DDR1-400 is still pretty decent, and RAM capacity is more important than speed.
      SATA, minor improvement, hard drive speeds are still way short of interface speed, but the cables are nicer to work with.
      Hard drive capacity, moderate improvement, but average joe will still fail to fill a 40 GB drive.
      Graphics cards, massive improvement, but only relevant to 3D users (largely gamers).

      I'm in the same situation as you, I'm still using the AthlonXP 2600+ I got some time ago, though I've added more RAM, hard drives and replaced the graphics card. My machine is still more powerful than a brand-new Celeron PC, and will kick the ass of many new laptops.

      I'm might upgrade if a new PC game comes along that requires dual-core, e.g. UT2007.

    2. Re:My opinion on this by jZnat · · Score: 1

      To build a machine with 16 GB of RAM requires a high-end server motherboard (e.g. a Xeon or Opteron one), and that can get very expensive very quickly. Besides, nobody needs 16 GB of RAM now and probably won't for a long time; it's only useful for server and research tasks that require huge amounts of data in memory at a time.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  40. Seriously though... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My mom mentioned to me the other day that she is waiting for Vista and a stable multicore processor market. She just feels once those get resolved, she will be able to write emails to Aunt Gertrude much better!

  41. Now Can Be A Good Time To Upgrade by chromozone · · Score: 1

    Microsoft and Intel did a lot to condition people to stick with what they have. Microsoft taught people not to buy with it's multiple delays of Vista AND with service packs that rarely add any obvious functionality and even slow a system down (certainly Service Pack 2 did). Throw in DRM and all that stuff and who is genuinely excited about Vista finally coming out? A major theme with Vista is that a persons computer probably cant run it and people are confused as to just what will run Vista. So its better to wait things out. Intel contributed to this sluggish market with its MarketBurst..erm.. NetBurst architecture that turned PC's into toasters. It's been obvious for awhile that Intel cpu's were sluggish yet hot and wasteful. Intel had to break down their marketing paradigm based on faster ghz. They had a lot of brand clarity in the computer market and they had to purposely destroy that to use confusion and obfuscation to hide the Pentiums inferiority and liabilities. While Intel and Microsoft were self destructing more and more people were getting broadband and finding their computers were doing more without having to buy an upgrade. People have been buying a lot more MP3 players and cameras etc. I waited over a year to get a new system because I wanted a Conroe Core 2 Duo. I finally had a reason to upgrade since Core 2 Duo gave a real performance boost without becoming a wasteful furnace. With Core 2 Duo I fly through Windows Movie Maker tasks compared to my Pentium 4, 1.8 but the C2D has the same wattage profile as the Pentium 4 1.8. Unlike most people though I kept reading about hardware developments. I don't think a lot of people know Core 2 Duo from Dual Core. Throw in all the HDCP, Direct X 10 etc. convolutions and the main message a lot of people pick out is "don't buy". They have had that message for awhile now and they have learned not buying a new computer isn't so bad. Right now things like High Def and fiber optics with movies downloaded on line seem to be interesting to people but all the fighting and confusion over standards and "rights management" seem to work against the market yet again. For myself, I am happy because I have seen what high def camcorders can do (I haven't bought yet because of the lack of drives for editing etc.) my area has Verizon FIOS, and I have a new E6600 Core 2 Duo which gets me online almost immediately while crusing through apps. I am even happy with my new OEM Windows Media Center OS (110 USD) and really dont want anything to do with Vista for at least a year or so - if at all. All-in-all I think it's a great time to upgrade a desktop. The hardware innovations are there and the OS situation isn't going to be "clear" in January When Vista comes out. The cost of things like new Direct X 10 cards, together with the bugs WE KNOW will be in Vista (and drivers from other hardware makers) makes this a good time to upgrade things like Desktops. Notebooks are another story since they seem to have a way to go still to be able to use Vista comfortably without costing 2 or 3 grand US.

  42. Apple offers free data migration already by metamatic · · Score: 1

    Buy your Mac at an Apple store and they already offer to migrate your PC data for free.

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/switch/

    Or you can buy the Move2Mac software and DIY.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  43. WTF world do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF world do you live in?

    First off, no single cpu/core is high end... hasn't been that way in years...

    A single core in the lowest speed Core 2 Duo (1.86mhz) is significantly faster than a 2.8ghz P4... never mind that there are 2 cores in the chip...

    512MB RAM is a joke as well these days...

    A 2.8GHZ P4 w/ 512MB RAM is about the slowest thing I'd even think about using....

    1. Re:WTF world do you live in? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      What year do you live in? Dual core chips on the desktop are barely 1.5 years old. Intel is still selling P4 2.8Ghz chips, and you can buy systems that run slower chips (namely, the Celeron). While I wouldn't consider a 2.8Ghz P4 a high end system, if it is built from decent hardware and has a decent video card, I may consider a mid level system.

  44. Wait until Vista ships before buying a new PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are at all interested in Vista, you should definitely wait until Vista is released before buying a new PC.

    If you buy a PC today, you will get a "coupon" for a Vista upgrade in the future. Vista may be delayed. There may be a shipping charge to send you Vista. You will have to upgrade your PC from Windows XP to Vista. Doesn't that sound like fun? If there are any problems during the upgrade, you are on your own to fix them. It might be a hassle to license your "coupon" copy of Vista. You might need to re-install your applications after the upgrade. Your vendor might be reluctant to support your PC after you did your own operating system upgrade. If you have problems with Vista in the future, you will always wonder if it was caused by upgrading from Windows XP, and whether you should have started fresh.

    If you prefer to use your PC, rather than fiddle with it, sit on your hands this holiday season, and purchase a new PC only after Vista comes pre-installed by the vendor.

  45. Re:Not surprised -- oh yeah? by usucdik · · Score: 0

    Again, validity? I have no idea what you are talking about because I have never heard of this type of problem. Sounds like a specific machine issue that doesn't apply to others.

  46. My Plan by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

    For about 3 years, I've been testing the Linux waters. I keep having to revert back to Windows because I know the OS well, and I've been changing life situations frequently (different field of study, different country, etc.). I have a laptop running XP and Ubuntu (after removing Gentoo from it -- compiling everything from source on a laptop is not a grand idea). I plan to remove my XP partition after backing up all my Opera settings and mail and other important files.

    However, my laptop is a sub-$1000 Averatec job. Athlon XP-M 2000+, 512MB RAM, 12.1" screen, 4 lbs. It's been very good to me, but is starting to show its wear (and it's only 2 years old). The case also creaks where the LCD meets the rest of the body. Also, the fan gets real loud now.

    I sit in my law classes, surrounded by 100 MacBook laptops which make no sound that I can hear, and are built quite sturdily (indeed, isn't this one of the selling points of Macs, that they are constructed well?). UT Law also offers a financial aid plan, where I can buy a laptop that meets certain minimum requirements, and I will receive a loan repayable after graduation for the cost of the laptop.

    Buying a MacBook Pro (after MacWorld next semester) and putting Linux (with Compiz/XGL???) on it is looking pretty nice right about now.

    1. Re:My Plan by Disharmony2012 · · Score: 1

      Take apart the laptop. Take the covers off the airways and heatsinks and clear out the major dust buildups with a straightened paperclip and use can air to make a thorough clean of all cooling facilities. My laptop fans used to idle high(and shut down) too... but after I did this it's as quiet as when I bought it.

  47. I went looking... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 1

    I actually went looking for a new system a few weeks ago; my current desktop machine dates back to 2001 and is in dire need of replacement. The result? The only machines I found on the shelves were SLOW. Office Depot, Sam's, the best I could find was a dual core clocked a bit above 2 MHz, with 2 gig of PC4200 RAM that was shared with the video system. CompUSA and Best Buy had some machines with separate video adapters but with the same RAM and CPUs that weren't much better. I'm either going to have to order or build one.

    1. Re:I went looking... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      I actually went looking for a new system a few weeks ago; my current desktop machine dates back to 2001 and is in dire need of replacement. The result? The only machines I found on the shelves were SLOW. Office Depot, Sam's, the best I could find was a dual core clocked a bit above 2 MHz,
      Wow. That is slow. Tell ya what- I have an old 486 here that I'm willing to let go for a song, it runs about 33MHz...
      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:I went looking... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 1

      Considering that Intel is selling CPUs up to and over 3 GHz, meaning systems 50% faster than the ones I saw (not counting video improvements which should be even greater), yes, damnit, they're slow!!

    3. Re:I went looking... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      I was actually poking fun at your Mhz/Ghz typo. :P

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  48. Joking aside, I [mostly] agree by Wabbit+Wabbit · · Score: 1

    I know you were kidding, but I gotta admit that some of your points...well...what's the old saying about there being a little truth in every joke?

    I've always been a fan of "doing more with less". I've written some of my best music using an ancient Roland SC-50 Sound Canvas module despite having $xx,xxx racks of synths and keyboards at my fingertips; I *still* do my best creative writing with a fountain pen and velvety smooth cream-colored paper (that's creme-coloured for my friends on the other side of the pond); and I've done some of my best programming in assembly under DOS (I know I know; don't shoot me). All my code editors are set to green on black; not 80x24, but green on black all the same, with little in the way of visual adornment.

    There is indeed such a concept as having too much of a good thing, although I admit that I'm happier compiling code on fast machines and using feature-rich (API- and toolkit-wise) languages.

    --
    Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
  49. OS X by zoftie · · Score: 1

    Here where Steve Jobs can jump in, and say Ta Da!
    Seriously, if apple doesn't snag this moment, for the sake of software relicencing...
    2c.

  50. I have been building computers for years, and by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1
    All I have to say is

          WHAT?

    Seriously, a PC is good for about 2(low end) to 4-5(high end) years. Technology changes. With that if you want a new video card, you can go out and buy a new AGP video card. HOWEVER, your benefit might not be as good as a PCI-E card. And either way, PCI-E just crossed AGP in performance anyway. So you would have to buy an expensive PCI-E card to push as much as what would saturate an AGP bus.

    My friend has a PC and he wants a new graphics card. He has an AGP motherboard. So now he has to get a PCI-E board, new memory and a new CPU (possibly).
    That is just plain silly. Here is a ahref=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?It em=N82E16814143046rel=url2html-14632http://www.new egg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046> perfectly good AGP card.

    If you want the top technologies, yes you have to start over. If you want a significant upgrade, drop in a new card, and more ram. It really depends on what you got in the first place. I see so many people toss a perfectly good computer because it didn't have enough ram. (sweet for me!)

    Speaking of RAM, Those standards are pretty concrete usually lasting about 4 years. Just don't buy into a new technology right away (RAMBUS anyone?) SD, DDR, just moving to DDR2 now (but will soon be skiped for DDR3) it's been a steady progression.
    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.