Slashdot Mirror


Netflix Now Offers Instant Online Movie Streaming

An anonymous reader writes "If you're the owner of a video rental store, it may be time to start thinking about getting into a different business, according to ZDNet. Netflix, the online movie rental service, is offering a new feature that allows its subscribers to instantly view movies and TV shows on their PC. From the article: 'Following a one-time, under-60-second installation of a simple browser applet, most subscribers' movie selections will begin playing in their Web browser in as little as 10 to 15 seconds. Movies can be paused and a position bar gives viewers the ability to immediately jump to any point in the movie. In all, the instant watching feature requires only Internet connectivity with a minimum of one megabit per second of bandwidth.' These movies are in addition to the standard DVDs you can have at home, it should be pointed out. You can see a demonstration of the service at the Hacking Netflix blog." Only a small percentage of customers have it available at the moment, but they hope to roll it out to everyone within six months.

247 comments

  1. wow.... by advocate_one · · Score: 5, Funny

    the tubes are really gonna get filled up now...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    1. Re:wow.... by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know that's a joke, but isn't it true? With Blockbuster and others most likely following suit, the internet is going to get pretty clogged.

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    2. Re:wow.... by russ1337 · · Score: 1

      >>> "the internet is going to get pretty clogged"

      I just have one question... where is the article about the telco's pouring money into infrastructure to increase our bandwidth to support these new services?

    3. Re:wow.... by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why should they? Honestly, what would they benefit? If they can't make money off new infrastructure, why would they pour money into it?

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    4. Re:wow.... by KernelMuncher · · Score: 1

      Isn't there a bunch of dark fiber that hasn't been lit yet. Excess capacity put in by telecoms during the boom. Or are we using that now?

    5. Re:wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People will buy it -- telcos just want to make sure people are starved for bandwidth. You could charge someone $10/month extra and give them 20 megabits extra speed, or you charge then $10/month extra for 2 megabits extra speed, and keep charging over and over. Golly, hard decision.

    6. Re:wow.... by stu42j · · Score: 1
    7. Re:wow.... by Do+You+Smell+That · · Score: 1

      Not losing customers to competing services is a great way to keep making money...

      --
      I'm not good at making signatures...
    8. Re:wow.... by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 1

      I think you're partially right in that. It will be the competition with WiMAX and other services that will encourage the local providers to over more and better service, but what about the backbone? Your brother poster suggested that they promised to and were paid billions of dollars to upgrade. I'm sure there's truth to that, but I'm also sure there's another side to the story.

      Sorry if I sounded snarky, I was really wondering what their reasons would be to upgrade, because I know there must be some and also ways for us as consumers to encourage that.

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    9. Re:wow.... by wile_e_wonka · · Score: 1

      I bet get all my important internets sent out quick before they have to wait in line behind movies. The internet isn't like a truck, you know...

    10. Re:wow.... by jc42 · · Score: 1

      they promised they would and we paid them $200 billion for it.

      Ok, so they've got the money and there's no way we can get it back from them. Now why should they deliver unless we pay them again?

      You don't understand how the comms business works. For another, clearer example: Every ISP sells you a service that includes things like 1.2 Mb/sec up, 0.5 Mb/sec down. It's right there in their ads. But if you're dumb enough to try using that bandwidth that you've paid for, you'll find your service cut off real fast. They don't even try to hide this bit of fraud, because they know quite well that no court would ever convict them.

      Given that the government allows them to act this way, why would you ever expect them to deliver on a mere $200 billion pseudo-contract?

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    11. Re:wow.... by bergeron76 · · Score: 1

      And in other news, Apple acquires NetFlix....

      --
      Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
    12. Re:wow.... by stu42j · · Score: 1

      Well, the original question was, 'why should they' but of course you are right, they probably won't do what they promised unless the government somehow forces them. And that seems pretty unlikely.

    13. Re:wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this exactly what MP3.com (the My MP3 service) offered and got sued into oblivion for doing? (Not the tube filling, the media content streaming.)

  2. We already have it.. by chiefer · · Score: 0

    Isn't this called YouTube? jk

    1. Re:We already have it.. by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 3, Informative

      A) You can't put a full 2hr movie on YouTube without breaking it into 20 chunks, which is a HUGE hassle
      B) YouTube looks like crap on my 15in laptop. What about your 42in 1080p HDTV?
      C) Put YouTube on your TV without a device more advanced than a DVD player

      Not that this doesn't have it's own problems:
      A) Ridiculous bandwith requirements for the common person
      B) Can't put it on your TV easily (again)

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    2. Re:We already have it.. by horatio · · Score: 2, Interesting

      B) Can't put it on your TV easily (again)

      A couple of years ago there was much talk about Netflix partnering with TiVo -- but I haven't read anything about it recently. Anyone know what happened to that?

      --
      There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
    3. Re:We already have it.. by EXMSFT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pshaw... YouTube is the Wal-Mart of video. Tons of garbage nobody wants to watch, a couple of actual gems worth finding, and everything is encoded in Flash, the worlds most efficient, yet hardest to bear watching, video technology.

    4. Re:We already have it.. by lpcustom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...and every time I set foot in Walmart to buy a $10 item I end up getting at least $100 worth of crap. Same thing with Youtube. I go there to watch one video and end up wasting 2 hours watching other crap. Your analogy was better than you first thought.

      --
      Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
    5. Re:We already have it.. by raehl · · Score: 1

      A) Ridiculous bandwith requirements for the common person

      Define ridiculous. You can get a 3 mbit/s connection in most areas for about the same cost as an extended cable television hookup. Paying for that connection and Netflix is probably comparable to paying for HBO/Cinemax/Showtime for most people, and you get access to a lot more movies than just those networks are showing, and you get that access whenever you want.

      So while many people may not have 3 mbit/s connections NOW, it certainly doesn't appear that the cost of getting one is out of line with what people already pay for video content delivery by other means.

      Can't put it on your TV easily (again)

      Now that many TVs come with SVideo and DVI connectors, running your laptop/computer to your TV isn't that difficult. I've used my laptop as a DVD player on several occasions with no problem (for video; for sound beyond stereo you'd want a desktop with a decent sound card).

      YouTube doesn't work well here just because there's very little content on it that is DVD quality.

      Which highlights one disadvantage of the Netflix thing that you missed: No HD content. Right now the only way to get HD content is over your cable box or HD DVD/BlueRay. And if it takes 3 mbit/s for DVD quality, HD quality downloads are out of reach for everyone.

    6. Re:We already have it.. by jj00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A couple of years ago there was much talk about Netflix partnering with TiVo -- but I haven't read anything about it recently. Anyone know what happened to that?
      I was just thinking the same thing. I expected this sort of news from Netflix to include a Tivo announcement. It seems I can never be too shocked to learn that Tivo isn't taking full advantage of their network+TV connection. Maybe they have been fighting with cable companies too much.
    7. Re:We already have it.. by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      YouTube uses some awful compression scheme to keep file sizes down. I doubt anyone would pay for a subscription service with similar quality. As far as getting video easily to a TV, I think it is pretty easy right now. My MacBook has Mini DVI so it hooks right into most tvs. I keep my video content on my iMac, because it has a 500gb hard drive, and stream content wirelessly to my MacBook hooked into the tv. The Mac TV is available soon for people who want to spend $300 to do the same thing as hooking up a laptop or a Mac-Mini, but not have a fully functionally computer at the same time. These are Mac-centric solutions, so I'm sure there are plenty of PC solutions as well.

    8. Re:We already have it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't put it on your TV easily (again)

      Um, back in 2000 or so I had a cable connecting my PC to my TV. It's great for watching movies, or simply for IM-chatting while sitting on your couch. (That was before I sold my TV because all German channels only carry sh*t anyway, and before I had a nice big LCD that I can watch movies on.)

      I suppose by now many people have such a cable, if they care. When every household needs a basic TV and a basic PC anyway I don't see why they wouldn't simply buy one cable instead of a new VHS,DVD,Bluray,whatever player every five years.

    9. Re:We already have it.. by Fishstick · · Score: 0

      sorry, what does this have to do with YouTube?

      he said the 'tubes' as in

      "The internets is a series of tubes" - Ted Stevens speech ...right??

      -but your points are otherwise spot-on ;-)

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    10. Re:We already have it.. by Fishstick · · Score: 0

      wait, better link

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    11. Re:We already have it.. by kefler · · Score: 1

      Who said 3Mbps was even enough for DVD quality? DVD's are 5-11Mbps MPEG2 and they aren't all that great. Even accounting for a better high quality compression scheme such as MPEG4, 3Mbps will barely cut it, and only then if your connection is rock solid and saturated the entire time.
      And DVD quality in my opinion isn't that great any more, with netflix sending out HDDVD and BluRay versions of their movies for the same price, it has just raised the requirements on residential internet connections before it can be a real business.
      Don't get me wrong - I think it's a great idea as a suppliment to real DVD's when you're in a hotel or travelling.. but not as a replacement for optical discs.

    12. Re:We already have it.. by EXMSFT · · Score: 1

      Touche...

    13. Re:We already have it.. by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1


      I was excited by that announcement too. However, later both Tivo and NetFlix formally announced the end of cooperation. I think that if you Google for it, or look at at the TivoCommunity forums, you'll find the obit.

      Too bad, really. I think Tivo is missing the boat on this, it could be The End of TV as We Know it. The first person to figure out how to integrate the library of the Internet with the viewing pleasure of the TV is going to make billions. I'm not sure Tivo is it, or Apple with their iTV, either. The key is that it has to be open to unrestricted content, and not many makers of commercially viable products are going to be willing or able to endorse that.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    14. Re:We already have it.. by Fishstick · · Score: 1

      oops, thought parent was replying to different post -- missed it entirely :-(

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    15. Re:We already have it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is it that makes you buy $100 worth of crap?

    16. Re:We already have it.. by drsquare · · Score: 1
      You can get a 3 mbit/s connection in most areas for about the same cost as an extended cable television hookup.
      Yes, you can get a 3 Mbps connection, that doesn't mean you're going to download at 3 Mbps. I have an 8 meg connection, never seen it go higher than 1.

      Now that many TVs come with SVideo and DVI connectors, running your laptop/computer to your TV isn't that difficult.
      It is, considering that my computer is at the other end of the house to the TV, and is often switched off or doing something else.

      What happens when someone's watching a streaming film when someone else decides to download something? Or do some heavy processing that freezes up the computer?
    17. Re:We already have it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BTW, netflix has HD-DVD/blueray media now.

    18. Re:We already have it.. by Supergibbs · · Score: 1

      B) Can't put it on your TV easily (again)
      Finally a good use for the Wii Browser (and other similar console internet browsers)
      --
      First post! (just in case I am...)
  3. Scratched? by lpcustom · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder if the streaming videos will have virtual scratches that cause them to skip like the real netflix dvd's do......

    --
    Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
    1. Re:Scratched? by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're way ahead of you. The state-of-the-art disc simulation subroutines will utilize something called "network lag" for much the same effect.

    2. Re:Scratched? by Metabolife · · Score: 1

      The MPAA is working on it I'm sure.

    3. Re:Scratched? by edwardpickman · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's an upgrade like their home theater kit. The home theater kit comes with floor gunk, stale popcorn airfreshner and a fake head to put infront of you to give that special visual experience. It also comes with a CD of teen age girls talking and babies crying in case you don't have your own on hand.

    4. Re:Scratched? by Pollardito · · Score: 3, Funny

      don't worry, there's a link to click to say you didn't receive that frame of the video and they'll send it again

  4. Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Shaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is the kind of thing that is going to strain the Internet's fabric at the seams. Up until now, your typical 1337 torrent freak was pretty uncommon among the general public, so the Internet has coped for the most part. But when the general public starts downloading several gigabytes of video every night, the whole equation will change.

    I strongly suspect you will see bit capacities on all ISPs very shortly if they don't have them already. I know Sympatico in Canada was "unlimited" right up until last month when all their DSL circuits went to 5Mbps, and they claimed they would grandfather existing customers with unlimited service - which they turned on within the month.

    So... I don't know whether this is a positive or a negative change, but I'm guessing for a lot of peering points and a lot of overloaded switch fabrics, this is a deal breaker.

    --
    ...Steve
    1. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by packeteer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Consumer demands will always be fufilled if there is a profitable way to do so. With all technology increasing exponentially over time there is no limit to how much progress we can make. There is also no limit to how much progress we want.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    2. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by master_kaos · · Score: 1

      Yes, I totally agree with this. And once Netflix proves that streaming videos is possible, it is only a matter of time until many of the other online video rental places offer it to. Hell, there are about 5 different rental places in Canada, and 2 of them are very large (cinemail.ca, and zip.ca)

    3. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Up until now, your typical 1337 torrent freak was pretty uncommon among the general public
      Nonono, that's just what we want the **AA to think!

      Actually, people were saying the same things about MMOs, and before that Usenet binaries, and before the integration of images into webpages. As long as people expect a certain level of service, the industry will grow to provide it, which in turn will make people expect a certain level of service. It's a cycle, you can never "top out" on infrastructure.
    4. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer is clear: QOS. Our only conceivable hope for increasing backbone capacity is obviously breaking net nuetrality. There is no other way. None.

    5. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by gravesb · · Score: 3, Funny

      As long as men can say "My pipe is bigger than yours," Internet bandwidth will never stop expanding.

      --
      http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
    6. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by lpcustom · · Score: 1

      The requirements for being 1337 must have dropped considerably for 2007. Knowing how to use bittorrent, is enough to make you 1337 now?

      --
      Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
    7. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the kind of thing that is going to strain the Internet's fabric at the seams.

      No. Porn has pre-stressed the Internet, and now it's ready-to-wear!

    8. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Shaman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a cycle, you can never "top out" on infrastructure.

      This is simply not true. Take a read through various articles re: BGP tables and route/switch fabric limitations facing us today. The very largest switches in a BGP environment (all the Internet backbone systems) have very finite amounts of performance and no path in sight for improving that anytime soon. The best way to deal with it is put the content closer to the customer, but something tells me that it's not going to work out that way in the short term and likely not in the long term.

      We are definitely *not* going to see a doubling of performance for switch fabric in the near future. We definitely *could* see a doubling of Internet traffic as a result of IPTV.

      --
      ...Steve
    9. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Shaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Consumer demands will always be fufilled if there is a profitable way to do so.

      Yes, but profitable for whom? If the network operators see only costs and Netflix sees only profit, what do you see happening?

      --
      ...Steve
    10. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Your kidding right? Backbone capacity has been constantly increasing. You have full blown internet TV with 100+Gb connections in places like South Korea with no such issues. Its all about the fact the telcos don't want to invest in the US network, because our laws no longer require them too (pre 90s the law required them to reinvest 90% into infrastructure)

    11. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Interesting
      We are definitely *not* going to see a doubling of performance for switch fabric in the near future. We definitely *could* see a doubling of Internet traffic as a result of IPTV.
      We weren't going to see a doubling of performance on the speed of a modem connected to POTS lines either, once that topped out. Instead of trying to break laws of physics with century-old copper wire, they replaced it with broadband.

      Of course working on the backbone is much different than swapping your 56K modem for cable or fiber or what have you, and I'm not saying any of this will happen overnight, or even anytime soon. However, it is pretty much a guarantee that something will eventually come along to upgrade what's in use now. And if broadband video and/or other goodies the customers want choke out the current system, the providers will have to either set up something new, or lose their clientele to someone who does.

      Remember AOL apologizing in their TV ads for service interruptions and busy signals during the Internet boom? Nobody in the industry wants to do that again, and they'll throw all the cash they can at avoiding it.
    12. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by LunaticTippy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Netflix is going to have to pay for bandwidth. Nobody will sell netflix bandwidth at a loss for very long. If average costs for the consumer end go up because of higher average usage, they'll raise prices on the other end, or delay dropping prices for a while. It seems pretty simple to me.

      The internet went through a similar adjustment when the text to graphic change occurred in the early 90s. People predicted these "huge" graphic files and animations were going to break the internet. Prices have only gone down. I used to pay $30/month for 9600 baud dialup. Now I pay $30/month for 1.5/384 dsl. I bet in 10 years we'll be measuring our internet bandwith in gigabits and it'll still be $30/month.

      Just think about how much things have changed. The typical home internet user used to have a dumb terminal and would occasionally transfer files of a few kilobytes. Total monthly usage was maybe 1 megabyte for a fiend. We've already added several orders of magnitude to this. Why the problem with one or two more?

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    13. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Last I checked 100Gbps links don't exist.

    14. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by ranton · · Score: 1

      Knowing how to use bittorrent, is enough to make you 1337 now?

      Generally when people mention those who consider themselves "1337" they are talking about kids who dont know much more than how to use bittorrent for example. Anyone who actually deserves to be considered "elite" would probably not be rediculous enough to even use the phrase 1337.

      Actual Elite people use the word 1337 to make fun of script kiddies.

      --

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    15. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by lpcustom · · Score: 1

      I'm 1338!

      --
      Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
    16. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check again.

    17. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Sorry, meant to say 100Mps. Though 100Gps certainly does exist, you wouldn't want to see the bill.
      Quick googling reveals that "average" SK speeds is 20Mps, but that 50-100 is commonly available for home usage.

    18. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Total monthly usage was maybe 1 megabyte for a fiend. We've already added several orders of magnitude to this. Why the problem with one or two more?
      Because in real terms, the difference between 10 GB and 100 GB is vastly larger than the difference between 1 MB and 10 MB.

      That's the same kind of logic that gets applied to the national debt. "Well, as a percentage of GDP, it isn't that big." Okay, but in real terms, it's fucking huge and that causes problems.
    19. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Dever · · Score: 1
      no, you're 148 !

      --
      - I'd prefer not to.
    20. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
      Because in real terms, the difference between 10 GB and 100 GB is vastly larger than the difference between 1 MB and 10 MB.
      That's the same kind of logic that gets applied to the national debt. "Well, as a percentage of GDP, it isn't that big." Okay, but in real terms, it's fucking huge and that causes problems.
      No, you're wrong. Was it harder to go from 1GHz to 2GHz CPUs than from 1Mhz to 2 Mhz? No. Memory? No. Disk drives? No. Networks use many technologies that are improving exponentially. There are breakthrough technologies that add several orders of magnitude. The steady improvement rate seems to be to double every year. Hell, I remember when Gigabit ethernet seemed crazy a few years back. Now it's already old and cheap. Terabit is now possible. If things continue at this rate we'll have petabit internet for $30/month in 20 years. It'll probably be sooner.
      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    21. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by mcrbids · · Score: 0

      This is the kind of thing that is going to strain the Internet's fabric at the seams. Up until now, your typical 1337 torrent freak was pretty uncommon among the general public, so the Internet has coped for the most part. But when the general public starts downloading several gigabytes of video every night, the whole equation will change.

      Do you have any idea how many times the Internet was supposed to collapse/implode/crash/overload/burn up? I remember reading comments much like yours about streaming audio, then video games, then youtube. I remember when over 50% of the traffic on the Internet was Email. And I remember when over 50% of the Internet traffic was based around ONE SINGLE FREAKIN' BIT TORRENT SITE.

      Sorry, buddy. The Internet has been around the block a few times, mmmkay? It was originally built to be a robust network, and damned if it hasn't worked out that way!

      I strongly suspect you will see bit capacities on all ISPs very shortly if they don't have them already.

      We solved this one a LONG time ago. It's called a proxy server

      So... I don't know whether this is a positive or a negative change, but I'm guessing for a lot of peering points and a lot of overloaded switch fabrics, this is a deal breaker.

      Most assuredly, Netflix is using a distributed system like Akamai to minimize peer load and overall Internet congestion. In any event, the money's on this working, so it will.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    22. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by sbeitzel · · Score: 1

      And, in the sense of elite meaning, "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons," the Elite also know how to spell "ridiculous."

      --
      Oh, go on, check out my job.
    23. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by ranton · · Score: 1

      And, in the sense of elite meaning, "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons," the Elite also know how to spell "ridiculous."

      And here we come to the lowest form of all life: People who troll online message boards looking for spelling errors.

      Scratching my ass would be a better use of my time than worrying about my spelling on Slashdot.
      --

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    24. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 Gbp/s was the speed record back in 2004, I'm pretty sure they are magnitudes beyond that now.. http://www.tgdaily.com/2004/11/29/internet_speed_r ecord_quadrupled_to_101_gbit/index.html

      Is it reasonable or usable by more than one research firm is the real question...

    25. Re:Say goodbye to the Internet you knew by sbeitzel · · Score: 1

      Frankly, scratching one's ass is a better (if it can even be said to be different) use of one's time than Slashdot. Idly, I wonder: why is correct spelling and syntax something you consider special? Don't be lazy.

      --
      Oh, go on, check out my job.
  5. The dawn of a new era by Bananatree3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This has definitely been a long time coming, but finally legal movie downloads are going the way of digital music, UP!

  6. Hold on now... by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't think this is the end of Blockbuster and friends yet. They still have one -major- advantage over streaming.
    The TV.
    Until there's some way to put these videos on your TV without offending the MPAA (Not everyone has a HTPC), DVDs will always have the advantage. Not to mention the low amount of people I know that have the necessary bandwith for this service.

    --
    "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    1. Re:Hold on now... by milo_a_wagner · · Score: 1

      Surely there's a box like Apple TV that would do it, and, if not, there will be?

      --
      Man wird am besten für seine Tugenden bestraft.
    2. Re:Hold on now... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      If they had a service where you could download the movie in DIVX, or XVID or some other MPEG4 Format, which the program would convert to MPEG2 to put on a DVD, then I think they could make a lot of headway. The movies would be a lot smaller (less bandwidth is good for the server and the client), and people would be able to watch them on the TV. They still wouldn't be as good quality as getting the actual DVD, but if they sold them for around $5-$10, I could see a lot of people opting for this over the DVD.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Hold on now... by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 1

      That sounds nice, but remember that we are dealing with the MPAA here. I -highly- doubt that will happen anytime soon, after seeing what happened with the music industry and iTunes and friends allowing burning music to CDs, destroying the copy protection they wanted so badly

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    4. Re:Hold on now... by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 1

      Yes, but Netflix is running their system as an IE browser plugin. Since there's no files to move to the AppleTV, it won't work like that.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    5. Re:Hold on now... by necro81 · · Score: 1

      I think that CES 2007 debuted several devices that allow you to stream video (wirelessly, in many cases) from a PC to a set-top box, and thence to the TV. These are not widespread yet, but there are enough products that the link from PC to TV is bridged.

    6. Re:Hold on now... by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      S-Video cables are that difficult to use? Every computer I've owned in the past 5 years has had an S-Video TV-out on it. Every TV I've had has either a composite or S-Video in. You don't need Windows Media Centre or Front Row to watch movies on your TV. I just plug my crappy old notebook (with no battery, a broken lid catch, an external WiFi card and a slow hard disk) into either my small TV or projector. I can use the aforementioned S-Video, or even VGA, to do the job. Putting your computer's display through a TV is one of the easiest things you can do with a computer. And, the MPAA doesn't give a shit, as it's an auxilary monitor. It might have Macrovision on it, but you can still watch it perfectly. Just no recordy-recordy, that's all.

    7. Re:Hold on now... by i,+Podius · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you're thinking something like this? http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/the-pc2tv-echov iew-fm-think-itv-but-not-by-apple/ It has the added advantage of "Anything you can view on your computer you can stream to a display wirelessly" over other devices like the Apple TV

    8. Re:Hold on now... by rlp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > S-Video cables are that difficult to use? Every computer I've owned in the past 5 years has had an S-Video TV-out on it.

      My (low-end LCD) TV has several S-Video inputs. It also has a VGA input - that's the one my PC is plugged into. I've had to use WiFi on the PC, since my wife objected to my throwing a CAT6 cable over the loft railing into the living room. I've found a decent remote (bluetooth) presentation mouse. Just wish there was a DECENT wireless keyboard available (I've already got several crappy wireless keyboards).

      --
      [Insert pithy quote here]
    9. Re:Hold on now... by bilbravo · · Score: 1

      Very good point. I don't want to watch DVDs on my 19" 4:3 lcd screen at my desk. I want to watch them on my couch, on my 30" widescreen.

      Now, I have a TV out on my machine, but that would be one long cable! So, maybe an Apple TV-esque device would be handy here. I know they have wireless G music streamers, what about for video?

      One more things... I only have 768Kbps DSL, time to upgrade--when they fix this TV thing that is!

    10. Re:Hold on now... by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Netflix needs to make a version of their software that runs on PS3, XBOX 360, Wii, Tivo, etc. If they did that, then the HTPC would become ubiquitous.

    11. Re:Hold on now... by Dark_MadMax666 · · Score: 1

      Typical non-widescreen 19" LCD is 5:4 - "ze only one" with such "unique" aspect ratio.

    12. Re:Hold on now... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      no but it will work perfectly on a mediaportal PC. you can install a IE plugin and view them there.

      Problem is that the videos are so low resolution it would look like crap on a Screen larger than 17". so you would not want that.

      I'll stick with renting them. the mediaportal + anydvd plays all DVD's perfectly from the dvd drive.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:Hold on now... by afidel · · Score: 1

      From the research I did last night they all blow. I researched units from the usual suspects (DLink, Linksys, Buffalo Tech, etc) and they all had lockup problems and most couldn't even handle the limited number of formats that they claimed to support. For the slashdot crowd I still think the answer is a HTPC in a nice case. Use a low power athlon64 x2 or core2 duo and it won't kill you on electricity usage.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    14. Re:Hold on now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely (I haven't tried) you can just run the s-video through your vcr/dvdr to your TV then record the show as your watching it.

    15. Re:Hold on now... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      I made a custom interface on my phone to give a list of all my movies and TV shows, so I just use that to queue up media. It also has a remote control interface for my media player of choice (zoom player), so that's all I need. Decent bluetooth keyboards are a bitch to find, though - good luck! :)

    16. Re:Hold on now... by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1

      It is ALREADY the end of Blockbuster. In Pittsburgh, all of the blockbuster locations went bankrupt and closed last year. Since they already put the mom and pop video stores out of business long ago, there is virtually no where to rent a video any more in the city. (there are a few exceptions, like some grocery stores, etc.) Normally Pittsburgh is 5-10 years behind the rest of the country, but this time I think we are ahead of the curve. Blockbusters anywhere won't last much longer.

    17. Re:Hold on now... by lonechicken · · Score: 1

      I recall another even uglier device being announced last week that claimed to be agnostic. Might have been 1080i/p capable as well. Anyway, it's difficult to tell, but either this Echoview thing doesn't have an audio out port, or it's that little minijack port which could potentially be only stereo. It'd be a shame.

    18. Re:Hold on now... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Putting your computer's display through a TV is one of the easiest things you can do with a computer.

      Not when the computer is sitting on a desk in the home office, and the TV is situated in the living room, on the other side of the house.

      Most people don't have their entertainment centers wired for computing and the Internet yet, but over the next 5-10 years, it's going to become as standard as DVD players and stereo speakers.

    19. Re:Hold on now... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Unworkable. I used to do this and it sucked so much I bought a video card with tv-out and use that instead of burning discs.

      The biggest problem is encoding time. It took my (recent powerful) pc hours to convert 2 hours of video from xvid to mpeg2. You can't do it until you're finished downloading. Then you have the 8 minutes to burn the disc. And it looks crappy because it's been encoded lossily at least 3 times.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    20. Re:Hold on now... by |/|/||| · · Score: 1

      I'd actually be pretty interested to see if this works through the opera browser on the Wii.

      --
      [javac] 100 errors
    21. Re:Hold on now... by RESPAWN · · Score: 1

      I actually use my faster laptop with WiFi from the couch to VNC into and remote control my slower laptop connected to the PC. It works beautifully for me and lets me keep my lazy ass on the couch when watching videos on the TV.

      That said, getting to the GP's point, my experience is that many consumer level PCs still don't have S-Video out direct from the factory. I've recently worked with several comptuers bought within the last 6 months and none of them have S-Video out. These have all been sub-$500 range PCs, which is probably fairly representative of the type of computer the majority of consumers are purchasing these days. (Laptops are another story -- every laptop I've seen in the past 8 years has had S-Video onboard.)

      The other hurdle is getting people to recognize and use the PC as a home theater device. Most people tend to think of computers and home theaters as two wholly seperate entities. Recently when I suggested to my dad that I should hook up my laptop to the TV in order to play a video for them, he gave me a weird look along the lines of "I never thought about doing that." Not to mention that most people keep their computers in a seperate room, usually far removed from their TV and I can guarantee you that the average computer owner won't want to move their computer from one room to the next just to stream Superman to their TV. In short, we still have a way to go to get the masses to accept the computer as a full featured multimedia device that you can connect to your home theater.

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

    22. Re:Hold on now... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      I solved that problem with a 15-metre (50-foot) S-Video cable, which I run from my PC to my tv/projector. You can also get wireless video repeaters for next to nothing, the modern ones having pretty good quality. The set-top boxes being released recently efficiently address this problem - wireless - just attach the video cable and the audio cable, and you're set. It doesn't matter where your PC is in relation to your TV or receiver. These boxes are really coming down in price, too. Netgear's new one looks rather sexy. It supports OSX and linux, too.

    23. Re:Hold on now... by kabz · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's the conclusion I've come to. My wife won't accept a full server next to the TV, but a Mac Mini will be tolerable. We want photo's, music, HD, iTunes and DVDs, so we really need a proper computer. I finally bit the bullet and ordered an Audio Authority 9A60 ($92) so I can display VGA from the Mini on our (oldish, component only) HDTV.

      If it's usable for browsing, then that will be the icing on the cake.

      --
      -- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
    24. Re:Hold on now... by billharnois · · Score: 1

      Has anyone tried this with the Wii Opera Browser yet? That would solve the "TV" problem. I assume I can just watch this through the browser on my Wii, and therefore the display is on my TV. Is this possible?

    25. Re:Hold on now... by neurojab · · Score: 1

      Until there's some way to put these videos on your TV without offending the MPAA (Not everyone has a HTPC), DVDs will always have the advantage. Not to mention the low amount of people I know that have the necessary bandwith for this service.

      Tivo. They already have a "TivoCast" service that lets you download video clips from the internet. All they need to do is create their own movie service, or partner with someone like Netflix, and they can offer movies on demand. Likely, the way you'll do it is "queue" your movies like you do with Netflix, but the movies would be "delivered" over a day or two via your internet connection instead of via postal service. Once you delete your "active" movie, the next movie would start downloading. It's quite simple really.

    26. Re:Hold on now... by magicchex · · Score: 1

      The reason that Netflix is doing this is because Blockbuster Online lets you return your from-the-mail movies in-store for free new ones which you can watch while you wait for your next batch to come in the mail. On top of that, as soon as you exchange them in-store, they ship out your next ones, instead of waiting for them to get to their distribution center. I LOVE this and it makes Blockbuster Online an order of magnitude better than Netflix. Netflix is throwing whatever they've been working on at their customers ASAP before they lose customers in droves as more people become aware of how great the Blockbuster policy is.

      Prior to this, there was basically no reason to choose Netflix over Blockbuster. With my $18/month 3 DVD plan, I could get 3 DVDs on Monday, exchange them in store on Wednesday for 3 more movies, and depending when on Wednesday I dropped them off, by Thursday or Friday I'd have 3 more movies in the mail, which I could exchange over the weekend for new ones and rinse and repeat. You can easily have 9-12 DVDs a WEEK from Blockbuster with the in-store exchange policy, a 3 DVD plan, and my distribution center is only an hour away.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    27. Re:Hold on now... by magicchex · · Score: 1

      Blockbuster Online is a MUCH better deal than Netflix, as I wrote in another post in this discussion.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    28. Re:Hold on now... by crayiii · · Score: 1

      Wow, open your door, go outside, meet people (maybe the opposite sex), and live!

    29. Re:Hold on now... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I've done it. It doesn't take 2 hours to do the encoding, at least not on my Athlon 3200. Takes about 1 hour. The quality isn't up to par with DVDs, but if I had to choose between paying $5 for this and paying $15 for the actual DVD, I would rather just pay the $5. Simple thing is give people the option. There's plenty of people who download ASF Cam Rips of movies, and watch those. I don't need super hi quality all the time. Sometimes its nice, but if I had a cheaper option, I might get more quantity. If the movie studio can sell more copies by offering different quality versions at different prices, then maybe there wouldn't be so much piracy.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    30. Re:Hold on now... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      I agree that downloads are fine for some uses. The quality is good enough, sometimes it is quite good. I've never regretted putting in wire from my PC to my TV though. I don't use blanks anymore and don't waste time encoding and burning.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    31. Re:Hold on now... by _fuzz_ · · Score: 1

      Tivo. They already have a "TivoCast" service that lets you download video clips from the internet. All they need to do is create their own movie service, or partner with someone like Netflix, and they can offer movies on demand. Likely, the way you'll do it is "queue" your movies like you do with Netflix, but the movies would be "delivered" over a day or two via your internet connection instead of via postal service. Once you delete your "active" movie, the next movie would start downloading. It's quite simple really.

      Tivo and Netflix announced that they were going to do just that, but it was about a year ago. I got excited because I have both services, but I haven't heard anything about it since then.

      --
      47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
    32. Re:Hold on now... by zipwow · · Score: 1

      My Wii has a browser and a TV connection. The remote sits next to my TV remote.

      What was the problem again?

      --
      I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
    33. Re:Hold on now... by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1

      Its a better deal if you have a local blockbuster video store to drop things off at etc . Without the stores, it's a wash.

    34. Re:Hold on now... by Mangelwulf · · Score: 1

      Simple answer - AppleTV and Xbox 360. If they open them to other content sources.

  7. weak feature by Speare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somehow, I don't think that the brick and mortar video rental services are doomed just yet. There's a bit of a difference in picking up a movie with your groceries to watch it with the family on the big-screen in the living room, and downloading it so you can wait to buffer up enough to play it inside a web browser window with heavy compression on the small screen of the bill-paying appliance.

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
    1. Re:weak feature by phrenq · · Score: 1, Interesting

      To be fair, the 1 megabit/second speed they want is fast enough to stream DVD quality video, so I don't think compression is going to be an issue. Of course, that just exacerbates the bandwidth issue, but this isn't exactly targeted at the 56k modem user.

    2. Re:weak feature by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Despite the fact that Best Buy cells "Media Center" PCs, very few people are actually hooking these things up to their TVs. They are mostly being used as regular PC that happen to have the Media Center stuff installed. Now, if they were to partner up with Tivo on something like this, then the the rental stores might BEGIN to see an effect, but even the Tivo subscriber base is relatively small.

    3. Re:weak feature by dave420 · · Score: 1

      The display issue noted in the video is due to the beta-nature of the service. Most people have megabit+ connections, and that's fine for downloading a video. The fact you can browse, select and play all without getting up makes this worlds apart from movies-over-mail. I guess people said the same thing about email - it's not the same as writing an actual letter with an actual pen, or even CDs/Vinyl/cassettes when mp3s became popular. People want convenience, and that's what this is. As for watching it in a web browser, the plug-in allows for full-screen playback, so there is no difference in experience compared to a DVD player. Want to bring up remote controls? Well, PCs have far more remote-controlability than your DVD player. I can't control my DVD player directly with my phone or a second computer, but I can control my PC in such a fashion. Imagine the whole family not having to fight over the remote control - just reach for your phone, and you have your remote. Or PDA. Or notebook. Or whatever. PCs have HD-outputs now, 7.1 THX-certified sound, so there is no compromise.

      I'm not having a pop at you - clearly the whole digital media "revolution" (*barf* - sorry) hasn't clicked with you yet. I had my epiphany back in 2002 when I downloaded some movies on my DSL connection, and watched them on the TV in my bedroom. Since then I've put all my [legally bought] media on my computer, so I can take advantage of the now ethereal movies - no media to scratch, nothing to get lost, and I get to control where and how the media is watched. I like to watch my videos when I'm at work (downtime, lunchtime, no-boss-time, etc.), and I can do that using RTP over RTSP (or even HTTP), transcoding them automatically to suit bandwidth limitations. That is impossible to do with DVDs, and carrying them all around with me is not possible.

      Basically, I'm saying that this stuff looks to be inevitable. There are SOOO many bonusses, and the only drawbacks seemingly appeal only to luddite sensibilities, which I don't mean as an insult.

      DVDs, HD-DVDs, BluRay, whatever - these are the last gasps of optical media, and in fact, media as we know it. Discs are sooo 1960s. The internet, and networks in general, offer the same benefits, with none of the draw-backs.

    4. Re:weak feature by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Decent DVD video is over 4 megabits per second.

      1 megabit per second is about the bitrate of your average CD-sized DivX file. Certainly nowhere near DivX quality, but better than other streaming video.

    5. Re:weak feature by SengirV · · Score: 1

      Two out of the four blockbuster video's in my areas(I live in one of largest AND largest growing counties in the US) have closed shop in the last year. These 4 have co-existed "happily" together for years. I'm not saying that netflix is the cause, but it sure didn't HELP these outlets.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    6. Re:weak feature by Duds · · Score: 1

      I left the industry (The UK arm of a leading Video Rental chain) about this time last year. At that time we'd had 3 straight years of double digit falls on average revenue. Their current offers suggest to me it's not getting any better.

    7. Re:weak feature by camt · · Score: 1

      You've never seen a Redbox, have you? I agree with your comment about picking up a decent quality DVD with the groceries to watch in the living room, as opposed to downloads in a browser. However, brick-and-mortar video-only rental stores are not necessary for that. We pick up Redbox movies at the grocery store. I'm trying to convince my office building to put one in the lobby.

      Between Netflix's cheaper plan for backlist titles, and Redbox for new releases, I would have little need for the likes of Blockbuster.

    8. Re:weak feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tivo did do a deal with Netflix, but nothing has come out of it.

  8. windows only by mmkkbb · · Score: 2, Informative

    I read an article in the paper this morning claiming that this will be available for windows only. How disappointing.

    --
    -mkb
    1. Re:windows only by EXMSFT · · Score: 0

      And this surprises you why? Real-time downloads of actual content people want to watch (versus what I've seen at most of the online video rental services - movies nobody has cared about since 1983) is a niche market. They need DRM. Hmm. Okay, that rules out linux. They want to address the majority of the market. Hmm. Okay, that rules out the Mac. Makes sense to me.

    2. Re:windows only by EvilRyry · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly. I do the Netflix thing now. I'm not sure if I'd use the downloading thing or not, but it'd be nice to have the option available on my Linux livingroom machine.

    3. Re:windows only by dave420 · · Score: 0

      How dare they not waste their time spending money on development just to target a subsection of the 10% of the market not using Windows! Bastards! Niche OS = niche support. Them's the breaks, unfortunately.

    4. Re:windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He's not surprised, he's disappointed. As am I.

    5. Re:windows only by stewbacca · · Score: 1
      Let's come back in two years and examine the state of Mac market share, especially in the area of on-demand media. If 9 out of 10 pcs are sitting in an office somewhere, they aren't doing the home media market any favor.

      Companies are short-sighted if they don't see the obivous trends in Mac OS growth, especially since the release of Intel Macs, and ESPECIALLY in the home market.

    6. Re:windows only by donkeygut · · Score: 1
      Very definetly a Windows Media Streaming service. The player is included in the desktop operating system. The streaming server is available in the server operating system.

      I have used the free encoder: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forp ros/encoder/default.mspx to transcode various content to various bit rates and run them over various wireless networks. The network requires good throughput and (low) jitter.

      It works very well. I have watched it on giant plasmas, large lcds and even once a digtial cinematic projector (via dvi) to a very large screen.

      Going forward, dumb TVs will go dodo bird, eventually. Why wouldn't you want an Internet connected TV? Of course, this will be years and years. If the text or pictures are too small in IE 7 just hit Ctrl + a few times, I personally have used a Windows Media Center as my only TV for two years or so. Standard and over the air HD tuners. Good times.

    7. Re:windows only by unDees · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd be fired at work if I told 10% of our customers to f*** off.

      --
      "I call a baby goat a 'goatse.'" -- my non-Internet-savvy 6-year-old stepdaughter
    8. Re:windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the entertainment industry is putting their neck in the noose by not supporting open standards for media delivery, ie.. windows only. people don't want drm and that will give them the motivation to switch to alternative operating systems without drm. I'm not against paying for good Xvid dvd rips (drm free), but since they don't offer it, i'll take it for free and drm free for that case. I'm sure bittorrent has more than 1.5% of all videos. I don't think streaming makes sense when downloading is preferable. for those that say that piracy is not the reasoning behind drm, i challange the closed source ppl to say for certain what the drm code is doing on their box!

    9. Re:windows only by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      Then again, with intel macs people can say buy windows. At work, we are replacing some gx240 dell systems with intel iMacs dual booting windows xp and tiger. We were already half Mac with OS X servers. We don't count because we are a university computer science department though. The number of Mac users is unusually high at my university as a result. Many students and faculty have iBooks, MacBooks Pros, etc. Many people with intel macs ask about bootcamp though. Its hard to say if OS X will be around in 5 years.

    10. Re:windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, EXMSFT - you've left Microshit but retained their pro-monopolist attitude. Bravo!

    11. Re:windows only by Trelane · · Score: 1

      Wonder if I can get money back, since I'm not being given the same service others are being given.

      --

      --
      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
    12. Re:windows only by BeanBunny · · Score: 1

      For the time being. From InformationWeek.com:

      Eventually, the company expects to add more titles and to support to the Mac operating system and other platforms.

      See here for more info.

  9. This is SO DOA for me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    (1) I use Linux/Mac. (2) I've got DSL, 50-80 Kbyte/s max. (3) How do I stream it to my 27" Sony tube TV? (4) Why do I want lower than DVD quality? (5) Why do I want a smaller window to actually find time/watch the movie?

    1. Re:This is SO DOA for me... by dave420 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Score: 1, What-do-you-expect?

      1. If you choose an OS that is not nearly as widely adopted as the market leader, and you have to expect to not get everything released for your platform. Things are improving, but they're certainly not there yet.
      2. Then you're fucked. This service is not for you.
      3. If 1 & 2 were fixed, you'd use an s-video lead, as most graphics cards have s-video outs on them these days. I've not been without one for over 5 years, and I wasn't even trying to keep it.
      4. To watch it instantly, and if the source of the video is HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, and it's encoded using H264, the quality could actually be comparable or better than DVD for those with faster connections. Nothing's stopping people from renting DVDs if they don't want this :)
      5. You don't have to use the smaller window. If you'd watched the video, you'd see that was the plug-in running in a window. It can run full-screen just fine.
    2. Re:This is SO DOA for me... by stewbacca · · Score: 1
      #1 -- Mac OS may not be as widely adopted as a business tool, but it holds distinct and tangible media benefits over Microsoft solutions.

      #2 -- Yep, Mac users are screwed. My question is why would you turn your back on millions of potential customers who have an easier and more elegant system with which to integrate your product? I would have loved to try out Napster or Yahoo music services, but alas, no Mac compatibility.

      I envisioned movies and tv on demand over the internet back in 1995. I never dreamed it would take so freaking long for bandwidth to develop, or that so many legal roadblocks would get in the way.

    3. Re:This is SO DOA for me... by dave420 · · Score: 1
      1. No, mac doesn't. Windows's DirectShow-based media playback is far more simple than the OSX competitor. Just install one system codec, and any application that cares to use DirectShow (hint: all of them) can play the video back. I've fiddled around with codecs on OSX, and it's nowhere near as intuitive or, indeed, fast.
      2. Because there are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people who the service already works with. Hypothetically, if it cost them $1m to develop the system for Windows to get them 100,000,000 users, then that's 100 users per dollar of development investment. Now if they have to spend another $500,000 to get it working on the Mac (developers, testing, support, etc.) just to get 1,000,000 users, then they're getting only 2 users per dollar of investment. That's why if something costs a LOT more to port to Macs (*cough* games *cough*), then they rarely make it, and if they do, usually woefully late
      Macs are a tiny, tiny fraction of the market. Windows is a massive, massive majority. That means Windows is the primary target and everything else is secondary. That's how markets work.
    4. Re:This is SO DOA for me... by larkost · · Score: 1

      You have a decent point on #2, but I don't think you have actually worked with the Apple API for #1... it is a little thing called QuickTime and is very fast, and if you are using the new Cocoa Wrappers that have been available since 10.3 are very easy to develop with. I will agree that prior to that the QuickTime API was a little bit of a pain. But if you were "fiddling with codecs" on the Mac, then you were doing something wrong.

    5. Re:This is SO DOA for me... by stewbacca · · Score: 1
      Hypothetically speaking, there are 100 PCs, and 93 of them are used by businesses. For every 100 PCs, there are 10 Macs, 8 of them are used by home users. If this were true (I'm sure it isn't, but it makes my point), there would be a bigger market for Mac based media-on-demand. The main point you overlook is that the overwhelming majority of media formats work on Mac and PC, so there is no mystical cost of "porting". Macs may be a tiny fraction of the market, but there are still MILLIONS of customers. Who turns their back on millions of customers?

      Also, show me one non-tech person with a working home theater/pc setup and I'll show you 10 ma-and-pa's with their Mac Minis and a little white remote controls. Even my parents can hook up a red white and yellow cable and push the enter button on their remote.

  10. windows only by bograt · · Score: 2, Informative

    From Netflix:

    System Requirements:
    Windows XP with Service Pack 2
    or Windows Vista

    Internet Explorer version 6
    or higher

  11. Great to Evaluate Movies by vwjeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I will not watch a full movie on my PC. That's what I have a home theater setup for. I already have Netflix and I'm excited because I will be able to evaluate a movie before I put it in my queue. I'll watch the first 20 minutes of the movie and decide if it is worth investing more time.

    1. Re:Great to Evaluate Movies by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I will not watch a full movie on my PC. That's what I have a home theater setup for.

      A lot of us have a PC as a component of our home theater setups. It is cheaper and easier to use than most mp3 player components. It is about the only easy way to play random YouTube videos on the big screen. Since it can also do duty as a CD player, DVD player, slideshow viewer, DVR, etc. it is a rather vital component in my mind.

    2. Re:Great to Evaluate Movies by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Score: 1, Living-in-the-late-90s

      Many people have already integrated their PCs into their home theatres. Those who want real flexibility with their media have done this already, as it's a lot easier keeping DVDs on hard disks than on individual, can't-be-played-when-in-the-box, discs. I download a lot of HD video, captures of the actual MPEG streams in general, and if my PC wasn't connected to my home theatre, I couldn't watch it. PCs having true 1080p output (and even greater) and 7.1 DTS/THX sound means they're not a compromise when it comes to media playback. Just wait - soon your PC will be in your home theatre, not some beige box stuck to the side only partly living up to its full potential.

    3. Re:Great to Evaluate Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will not watch a full movie on my PC. That's what I have a home theater setup for. I already have Netflix and I'm excited because I will be able to evaluate a movie before I put it in my queue. I'll watch the first 20 minutes of the movie and decide if it is worth investing more time.

      I have no "television", but I do have a large cinema display and a dual proc. G5. All home music / video is played on that system. I have hard drives full of content always online, and binders full of content off-line. I gave up TV since I couldn't get the TV/Internet bill under $120 here in Manhattan with TW Roadrunner. I must admit that I download at least a hundred gigabytes of content per month..... via Torrents.

  12. Typo... by segin · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Only a small percentage of customers has it available at the moment Should be:
    Only a small percentage of customers have it available at the moment
    1. Re:Typo... by Twisted+Willie · · Score: 1
      a small percentage
      I don't believe that's technically a plural, so 'has' would actually be right.
  13. Internet Not Ready by organgtool · · Score: 4, Interesting
    In all, the instant watching feature requires only Internet connectivity with a minimum of one megabit per second of bandwidth

    ONLY one megabit per second of bandwidth? I live in a well populated area and my ONLY option is 768Kbps DSL or a 6Mbps cable connection that is saturated with other users in the neighborhood. Verizon's FIOS is still a few years away from being installed in my neighborhood, so this service is useless to me.

    Hopefully this service will get people to see the benefit of higher speed connections and spark a bigger demand for more speed.
    1. Re:Internet Not Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Move out of the woods then I've had 5mbit for years and years now (cable), and just upgraded to 15mbit since its only $10 more.

    2. Re:Internet Not Ready by uhmmmm · · Score: 1

      This is what I love about being in Japan. I've got 50 Mbps internet, for only a little more than my parents pay back home for 5 Mbps.

    3. Re:Internet Not Ready by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      That sucks.

      My cable connection is about to get doubled from 5 Mbps to 10 Mbps. Right now, my connection is generally saturated 24/7, pegged at 4.7 Mbps down from Newshosting.. and I live in a densely populated college town. Your cable company sucks if you can't maintain >1 Mbps on a 6 Mbps connection all the time.

    4. Re:Internet Not Ready by Gkeeper80 · · Score: 1

      It also requires Windows XP service pack 2 and Internet Explorer 6.0 or better (can those two really co-exists?). I can't provide a URL because Netflix will redirect you to the login page. If you have an account, go to "Account Preferences" and notice the advertisement on the right of the screen, click the link for details.

    5. Re:Internet Not Ready by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      What really sucks is that thanks to products like Tivo, many users are used to time-shifting anyway. When you time-shift, then it doesn't really matter how long it takes to download, because you're probably not watching it until later. The only advantage a 10 Gbps connection should offer over a 512 Kbps connection, is that the movie should be ready a couple hours sooner.

      Streaming video is a bad idea for this reason and others. If they specify a minimum bandwidth, it means they screwed up.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    6. Re:Internet Not Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I live in a well populated area and my ONLY option is 768Kbps DSL or a 6Mbps cable connection

      Not true. T1s from Speakeasy are affordable. I have one at home. Can't remember the last time I was down or slowed.

    7. Re:Internet Not Ready by magicchex · · Score: 1

      I agree. I also live in a densely populated college town, and I have 8 Mbps which I push to its limits every day and night and it gets pegged at 7 Mbps when I do speed tests. GP must live in a shit situation.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
  14. Good First Step! by bareman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I like the way Netflix is doing this. Rolling it out as an additional, no extra fee, feature of their service shows that they are ready to start the next generation of film viewing, and that they realize that this service is not presently ready to fully replace their current model.

    Good job Netflix!

    1. Re:Good First Step! by xtracto · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, the bastards at lovefilm want to charge £3 for a movie download appart of your rental fee...

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  15. quality? by wileyAU · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The main reason that I use Netflix (as opposed to downloading movies over Bittorrent) is that I have a nice TV, surround sound system, etc. and prefer DVD quality as opposed to anything you can get over the internet. Until Netflix can offer a similar service over the internet (at least 480p, 5.1 surround), I'm not that interested.

    1. Re:quality? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      These are some good points. It sounds like a good idea with potential, but I really hate the fact that nothing I've gotten off the web (legit or otherwise) has had surround sound! I live overseas, and one of my only sources of tv shows (Battlestar, The Office) is iTunes, or bit torrents. I prefer the peace of mind of a legit iTunes purchase and the assurance the quality will be fine full screen (can't say the same for random torrent from the web), but still, no surround? Lame.

    2. Re:quality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should really look better in the "internet" .. I've plenty of (divx/xvid) films with exactly same quality as the DVD and surround sound. I watch them on the big screen with a modified XBOX running XBMC connected to my 7.1 amp. -This- is really VOD and not all the crap any of these pseudo companies can offer you. Sure, it is as illegal as recording a movie from any cable channel, but until I get the same thing I'm not going to pay, let alone go to rent a DVD.

    3. Re:quality? by crabpeople · · Score: 1

      HDTV rips are often better than dvd quality.

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    4. Re:quality? by Maltheus · · Score: 1

      You must not be looking very hard. Most of the (otherwise) downloads I'm seeing these days contain the original DD51/DTS AC3 passthrough track (DVD and HDTV rips anyway). Many have subtitles. Thanks to MKV, I can even incorporate the commentary track and original chapters, when backing up my own collection (though the downloads are rarely this sophisticated yet). However I agree that the legit downloads still have a long way to go in this area and I feel they may never catch up.

  16. What I'm Waiting For by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 1

    This is really close to what I've been waiting for. If the app will allow me to go "full screen" with the proper overlay setting, it'll be perfect.

    Of course, I wonder about the "1Mb/s" requirement. XVID files are usually around 400MB/hour. That's what, 128kbps. What is their service doing that requires 8* the bandwidth of a torrent download?

    And before you say that the BT download is low quality, I watch these things via S-Video out of my laptop right onto a 50" 1080i HDTV.

    PS, I just pulled up the properties for a show. It says the video is encoded at 139kbps and the audio is 113kbps. The file size is 358MB and it runs 42m41s. That's 139kbps.

    --
    I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    1. Re:What I'm Waiting For by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's 139 + 113 = 252 kbps.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    2. Re:What I'm Waiting For by larytet · · Score: 1
      Probably they do not like their servers to keep TCP connections for too long. Deliver the file over 1 Mb/s or better pipe and switch to the next customer. No "spoon feeding" for dial-up connections.

      IE 6.0 and Windows are required. DRM ?

    3. Re:What I'm Waiting For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got got your bits and bytes mixed up. Redo your calculations with either b or B.

    4. Re:What I'm Waiting For by Randall311 · · Score: 1

      You need at least 1Mb/s because you don't want to flood your entire connection with streaming video. You want to be able to stream on your tv box, and your wife, son or daughter can still do x, y, and z online at the same time, and you can still receive your VOIP calls while the movie is playing. You're going to need a little xtra then the bare minimum 128kbps that your XviD streams with.

    5. Re:What I'm Waiting For by greenrom · · Score: 2, Informative

      358MB file / 42m41s = 139.9 kiloBYTES per second. 139.9 * 8 = 1.1 megaBITS per second. Plus, this is an average bitrate. MPEG video is often encoded at a variable bitrate, so some parts may have a higher bitrate than others. There is also going to be protocol overhead that adds to these numbers -- those IP and TCP or UDP headers take up bandwidth too. Therefore, one would have to assume that Netflix will be encoding at a lower bitrate than what you're used to. Probably at least 25% less. I would expect video quality equivalent to YouTube or perhaps marginally better.

    6. Re:What I'm Waiting For by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Xvid files are indeed around 400MB/hour. That's 114KBps.. but 910Kbps.

      1Mb/s is 450MB/hour.

      So the quality should be comparable to standard Xvid.

      This is low quality compared to DVD. 1Mbps Xvid is quite far down the totem pole from 4-5Mbps DVD.

      Big B means bytes, and a byte is 8 little b's (bits).

    7. Re:What I'm Waiting For by SparkEE · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's 1.12Mbps.

      (358MB * 1024KB/MB * 8b/B) / (42min*60min/s + 41s) = 1145Kbps = = 1.12Mbps

    8. Re:What I'm Waiting For by 3choTh1s · · Score: 1

      25% is quite a bit more extreme than necessary. Find a decent bandwidth test and it should tell you how much is being used as data overhead. I've tested my own cable internet and I've never gotten over 10%.

      I've encoded lots of stuff at 900Kb/s, they all look terrific. Especially widescreen movies. There is just less stuff to encode therefore every frame gets more bits to go to quality.

      And just because the bitrate fluctuates doesn't mean it's the end of the world. All you have to do is set up the application so that it buffers like(and this is just some random number) 10 seconds before playing the video. Now unless the entire next 10 seconds has a higher than average bitrate(not likely) you'll have good quality video working at decent speeds.

      Also youtube videos are horrendous. Don't compare what you can do at 900Kb/s to what youtube does. I guarantee a significantly better picture than what you can get from youtube.

    9. Re:What I'm Waiting For by greenrom · · Score: 1

      25% less than 1.1Mbps is 825Kbps. That's before protocol overhead. I stand by my 25% assertion. Although I agree that 800-900Kbps video will be better than what YouTube offers. I didn't think that one through too well. I'm sure YouTube is using a MUCH lower bitrate. I suspect the quality will be acceptable, but less than DVD quality. Most DVDs have an average bitrate of 4-5MBps though this is MPEG-2 video. NetFlix will most likely be using something closer to MPEG-4. I'll admit I'm not an expert on MPEG-4, but I doubt that you can get better than 500% additional compression out of it compared to MPEG-2 without a perceptible quality loss.

    10. Re:What I'm Waiting For by 3choTh1s · · Score: 1

      I do grant you 25% of 1.1 Mbps is 825Kbps. But that's gotta be total including protocol overhead. What else is there to internet video?

      My numbers of 900Kb/s are roughly from 10% of the 1Mb/s that's stated they are shooting for. But that's still total, there really isn't a whole lot to video transport.

      But that's really not here or there. Depending on the type of sources Netflix can get for their initial transcoding (Can they get the original digital sources dvd's are made from?) they can get quite a bit of quality from Mpeg-4. Anyone who has seen what H.264/AVC(Mpeg4 Part 10) can do knows that you can easily get 500% or more compression with equal or better quality depending on the source compared to Mpeg-2.

  17. Don't sound the death knell just yet by brokeninside · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Obstacles for this service killing off the bricks and mortar rental shops:
    • Closed captioning.
    • Big ass TVs that aren't connected to the 'net.
    • Being able to take it to a friend's house.
    The sweet spot for me for a service such as this will be when Apple releases a Mac mini with an HDTV tuner for convenient way to get a movie from my PC to my television where I can watch movies from the comfort of my couch with my decent stereo cranked up enough to make the bass notes of the soundtrack rumble through the floor. Not to mention, it makes it hard to rent a flick to take on the road to a friend's house or for the kid's watch on a long trip in the car. Consequently, I think the bricks and mortar rental places have plenty of time to keep making a substantial profit.
    1. Re:Don't sound the death knell just yet by rice_web · · Score: 1
      1. But given that this is done within an applet, I should think that adding closed captioning, for any and every language, becomes a trivial matter to implement.
      2. I don't understand why more televisions today don't have an ethernet port and run something like Ubuntu. Seems like minimal investment with a host of real advantages, such as containing a full-fledged browser with tie-ins to YouTube (and now NetFlix).
      3. If your friend has broadband, shouldn't be a problem.
      --
      The Political Programmer
    2. Re:Don't sound the death knell just yet by dave420 · · Score: 1

      To stream to your TV, use one of the many STBs out there that do what you want, only they cost a LOT less than a Mac mini. HDTV all the way, digital audio, etc. It's the same as having it plugged in to your high-end AV equipment, only wireless :) nVidia launched one at CES, which costs $349, and does everything. It's OSX and Linux compatible, too :)

      As for taking it to a friend's house, unless he doesn't have internet, you just have to show up and you've brought it, and all other NetFlix content, with you. Watch it on the road? Sure - there you might have something. It'd be cool if NetFlix allowed you to store it on your computer for a while.

    3. Re:Don't sound the death knell just yet by brokeninside · · Score: 1
      1. It may be trivial, but it hasn't happened yet and I know of no plans for streaming media software providers to implement it.

      2. It doesn't matter why it is the case. The fact of the matter is that it is not the case and, except in the high end of the market, I know of no plans to implement it.

      3. Not only does the friend need broadband, but they need the right software and a connected computer in the room where you're going to watch the show and you need to trust your friend's computer enough to log into your account from it. Then there is the issue of wanting to watch the flick on your laptop while on the bus or in the back seat of your parent's car on that five hour road trip.

  18. mixed signals by Danzigism · · Score: 2, Insightful
    i personally think this is atleast a step in the right direction.. a lot of people are complaining about it being in a web-browser, and how lame it would be to watch a movie on your computer.. well, being that I have my TV hooked up as a secondary display, I'm sure it will be just fine.. atleast fine enough to get the point of the movie across.. I know not to be looking for DVD quality with this of course..

    I don't think I'll use the service all the time, but I wouldn't mind using it if the quality is somewhat decent.. I don't know whether or not Netflix will do this, but I'd like to pay for the movies as I watch them.. Optionally.. I'd gladly pop in my CC#, and pay like $1-$3 bucks for a one time stream that would let me watch it for up to 3 days.. I don't watch movies enough to pay someone a monthly fee.. but if i'm feeling lazy, and want something quick, then this might be the way to go.. I guess it also will depend on whether or not we can actually Full Screen the stream..

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  19. How long before stream rippers run the costs up? by fatnicky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It happens to XM all the time, songs ripped directly from the stream. How long before amazon and netflix and whoever else face the same problem? I can see these streaming movies cancelled once the RIAA and MPAA get wind of the number of streamgrabbers out there. How easy would it be, really? Now we burn netflix DVD's in about 2 hours, imagine how many people would signup for netflix if they could burn (or save to ISO) the movie AS THEY WATCH IT? This has 'Netflix, meet shark' written all over it. 12 months tops before prices skyrocket due to theft or it's cancelled completely. Just saying.

    --
    Free childcare classifieds: www.carebrite.com
  20. QOS by hxnwix · · Score: 1

    As the telephone companies love to tell us, IPTV over the internet as we know it is impossible. Without QOS, this service will not work - at all. Why is Netflix lying like this? It makes me cry.

  21. Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living room? by brokeninside · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I don't know of many people that want an ugly workstation permanently plugged into their TV or that are willing to plug their laptop in every time they want to stream a film. There is no real danger to the bricks and mortar rental places until TVs (or set top boxes) that can accept the streaming become ubiquitous. IMO, the killer appliance would be a DVR priced less than 500 USD with a DVD drive and a network interface capable of pulling movies from all the PCs in the house as well as services such as this.

    Also, as I mentioned in a different post, there is the closed captioning issue. I suspect, but I'm not positive, that Netflick's player app is not CC aware. Heck, Apple's Quicktime isn't going to be CC aware until the next release.

    And then there is the issue of being able to stuff a physical disk into your bag and take it to work, school, a friend's house ...

  22. Dumb overreaching in first sentence by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think virtually all rhetoric about device B being a "device-A-killer," or one technology quickly displacing other, is dumb... and in many cases is promotion by supporters of the new device or technology, hoping to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    In 2000, when dedicated eBook devices were introduced, one could have imagined people saying "If you're the owner of a bookstore, it may be time to start thinking about getting into a different business."

    In 1950, and early adopters were inviting their friends to come over and watch Milton Berle, one could have imagined people saying "If you're the owner of a movie theatre, it may be time to start thinking about getting into a different business."

    All businessmen need to be watching their back, and video rental store owners are well advised to be vigilant... the times, they certainly are a' changin'. Going out to the movies and buying overpriced boxes of Nonpareils is a different product and a different experience from watching "The Wizard of Oz" on a television set. The latter model may ultimately displace the former, but it's not at all obvious just how it will happen or at what speed or when

    Similarly, downloading a movie and watching it on your PC is going to feel very different from renting a DVD. And speaking of Milton Berle on a 5" diameter round Dumont picture tube... a) who wants to watch movies "on their PCs?" b) Do you have your PC in the living room connected to a big screen? Does anybody you know? Yesyesyes I know all about the technology and Steve Job's "Apple TV" and "convergence," the big buzzword since 1990. I just don't see it actually happening yet. All these companies are selling a solution to something my son-in-law doesn't see as a big problem.

    If Netflix would let you burn that movie to a DVD and carry it over to the big-screen TV set that a lot of people I know do have, then, yes, the video stores should worry a bit more. But at the moment the movie industry seems to be adamantly opposed to concepts like "permanent" and "own" and "bought it."

    1. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      Similarly, downloading a movie and watching it on your PC is going to feel very different from renting a DVD. And speaking of Milton Berle on a 5" diameter round Dumont picture tube... a) who wants to watch movies "on their PCs?" b) Do you have your PC in the living room connected to a big screen? Does anybody you know?

      Almost all the HDTVs and HD monitors in the market take in VGA input. Many modern laptops have S-Video out. VGA to NTSC converters are cheap. 50$ or so.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've stumbled on a good similarity here, the reason I think both internet pay-movie downloading and ebooks have been lukewarm at best is their crummy implementation. All the bickering around about format and companies wanting to control ebooks kept it from being accessible to the customer, and now the manufacturers barely even care. We're seeing a lot of the same thing with these internet pay-movie sites, and none of them that I can see are providing a simple way for the user to buy a device of some sort and watch the movies on their regular TV. Technologically we could possibly have competitive ebooks and video-on-demand tomorrow, but the industry beats itself up so much that we may never see it happen.

    3. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by raehl · · Score: 1

      And when the CD came out, one could have imagined people saying "If you're in the record player manufacturing business..."

      DOH!

      And when automobiles were invented, one could have imagined people saying "If you're in the horse carriage business..."

      DOH!

      And when PCs were invented, one could have imagined people saying "If you're in the typewriter business..."

      DOH

    4. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

      "And when the CD came out, one could have imagined people saying "If you're in the record player manufacturing business..."

      Look at this and this and this.

      CD players have been out for so long that people are declaring the CD itself to be dead, yet there are still people making money by manufacturing record players.

    5. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by rwyoder · · Score: 1
      b) Do you have your PC in the living room connected to a big screen? Does anybody you know?
      Yes, I do. My MacBook spends most of it's time on the coffee table in the den. I have an Apple DVI adapter connected to a DVI cable that runs to my 37" Westinghouse LVM-37W3 monitor. The Mac recognizes it and sends a a 1920x1080 picture to it.
    6. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by potat0man · · Score: 1

      Yes, I do. My MacBook spends most of it's time on the coffee table...

      Wow, you'll have a great setup for watching movies why you could just...

      Oh wait. Windows only.

      DOH!

    7. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by potat0man · · Score: 1

      Do you have your PC in the living room connected to a big screen? Does anybody you know?

      Yes and Yes.

      Anyone else?

    8. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by Professr3 · · Score: 1

      I have an old PC with a nice graphics card sitting next to my 42" Samsung LCDTV. I use a bittorrent RSS aggregator to automagically download all my favorite TV shows and movies onto my main box in the other room, and I use my laptop with Synergy (sp?) as a remote control.

    9. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by drew · · Score: 1
      ) Do you have your PC in the living room connected to a big screen? Does anybody you know?


      Several people, actually(*). Just because my parents haven't done it yet doesn't mean it's not widespread enough to build a service around it.

      (*) Of course, everyone who I can think of off the top of my head has done it with a Mac, as I probably will do, as well. I haven't decided yet whether I want to get a Mac Mini, or wait for Apple TV.
      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    10. Re:Dumb overreaching in first sentence by Maltheus · · Score: 1

      Several people, actually(*). Just because my parents haven't done it yet doesn't mean it's not widespread enough to build a service around it.

      Actually, my mom has done it (through Tivo networking I think). And several of my non-technical friends have started doing it this past year, through their Macs. I hardly ever use my satellite or DVD player anymore cause of my HTPC (been using it since '99). It really is becoming a lot more popular as more people are finally making the upgrade to HDTV and are still in that curious phase of what they can do with it.

  23. Netflix grew up to its name by AnnuitCoeptis · · Score: 1

    Well, the name says it "Netflix". Reminds me of now famous quote of Bill Gates that Blu-ray and HD-DVD are the last of removable disk media formats.

    1. Re:Netflix grew up to its name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of now famous quote of Bill Gates that Blu-ray and HD-DVD are the last of removable disk media formats.

      Yeah, 51 gigabytes ought to be enough for anyone.

  24. This is a good start by oshkrozz · · Score: 1

    For those who don't want to actually read the article I will summarize the key parts. 1) The bandwidth is 1 -3 Mbps, so depending on what you have it will be from ok quality to DVD quality. 2) Its included with the monthly subscription, but restricted to 18 hours/ month to start 3) They are working on making it available to people with less bandwidth so it might soon support less then 1 Mbps My personal take on this, this is so far the best of any offering out there, compared to the strict movie download sites that are charging almost $4/ movie to RENT for the quality you get above (hope this will force those sites to drop the price to less then $1), this is a very nice add on service and if you want higher quality you can order the DVD, you can preview a TV show and see if you really want to get the whole season on DVD. The question of when it will be available on the TV is quite simple. I think in about 5 years we will have flash drives or disks that are capable of storing 30 gig or more, when that is done there will be a special player format that can be copied to this drive with DRM and time limits (ie the movie will be there for 24 - 48 hours) but most people will not care because it will be a RENTAL you will be paying $1 a movie to rent or a subscription like netflix with 2 - 7 movies "out" at a time, you will download the movie with the computer place it on the flash drive and then pop the drive into your HD-Flash player to watch on the TV. The current format of read only disks is too expensive and time consuming over all it would take hours to make a DVD (5 hours to download and an additional 2 hours to burn 15 gig and thats being very liberal with bandwidth and speeds). This just doesn't scale well when the disks costs $2 each or more, and all you want to do is rent.

    1. Re:This is a good start by Steve525 · · Score: 1

      I think in about 5 years we will have flash drives or disks that are capable of storing 30 gig or more, when that is done there will be a special player format that can be copied to this drive with DRM and time limits...

      Or, Microsoft or Sony could allow their game boxes to display the movies directly. Or, if there's a market, some other set-top box will appear.

      I agree, that this is only a fist step. The question is, will Netflix be able to build on this step, or will the telcos and cable companies swoop in and steal the show. Because the telcos and cable companies can put in the big pipes necessary for this to work, they definitely have the advantage. (And the telcos want to be assured of that advantage with a tiered internet).

  25. MythTV + Netflix streaming by Heem · · Score: 1

    now we just need a module to make this work from within MythTV.

    --
    Don't Tread on Me
    1. Re:MythTV + Netflix streaming by toganet · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking the same thing -- I wonder whether the broswer plugin works on Linux?

      I'm a huge MythTV and NetFlix user, though my fiancee and I have slowed our NetFlix usage to a crawl compared to before Myth. If we could integrate the two, we'd probably never leave the couch.

      If it weren't for curling, that is.

  26. No not so weak. was Re:weak feature by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    1 Mbit per sec [note bit not byte] works out to 430 Megabytes per hour. Full DVD quality video stream is 2.2 Gigabytes pers hour. So there is some compression. But still the quality would be much better than VHS or VCD or even S-VCD. BTW getting the picture on to the big screen in the living room is no big deal. Almost all the HDTVs have VGA input, PC input. Even if they dont have, S-Video out is common in many laptops. Or you can buy a 50$ adapter to convert VGA to NTSC.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  27. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by dave420 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hear what you're saying, I really do. I use a notebook, which is easy for me. Before I used my notebook, I used my PC and a long video lead - no problems there. The PC is in another room, so there's even less clutter than a DVD :)

    For those who don't have a computer to stream to, there are a host of STBs that allow streaming across your network. If these feeds are RTSP, then they can most likely be brought directly to those boxes.

    And as for taking your media with you, I take ALL my media wherever I go, as I have an RTSP streaming server set up at home, which can broadcast or stream selected media across my internet connection, transcoding to whatever video/audio codecs and bitrates required. That's a LOT easier than carrying around 200 DVDs, containing the only copies of my actual movies.

    Optical media is sooo last century it's not even funny. The answer is staring us all in the face - networks. Having a movie on a physical disc makes the movie less useful. We get pissed off with DRM, but then there are even more techincal barriers imposed on our fair use by the actual media. The network alleviates those problems in an instant - it does require a wee bit of flexibility on the up-taker's part, but then every single technology did too.

  28. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by LordKronos · · Score: 1
    From the linked article:
    Subscribers on Netflix's most popular plan, $17.99 for unlimited DVD rental and three discs out at a time, will have 18 hours of online movie watching per month.


    18 hours is about 9-12 movies per month, which is about how many movies you can get per month on the 3 at a time plan (maybe a bit better if you've been throttled). So this isn't going to substantially increase the problem over what people can do now by ripping the DVDs they get in the mail.
  29. Wrong about Sympatico by yabos · · Score: 1

    Sympatico is still unlimited if you have a contract. For new customers without a contract you get a rediculously low cap. I still have unlimited, granted I've had Sympatico for many years.

    1. Re:Wrong about Sympatico by Shaman · · Score: -1, Troll

      See the newsgroup can.internet.highspeed. Lots of people with contracts, etc. have been billed for further usage.

      Also, 30GB is not a ridiculous cap. If you aren't stealing software, movies, music from the rightful copyright holders (whether you agree it's stealing or not, that's my opinion) then 30GB is more than enough. Very, very few people need more than 30GB of transfers.

      Frankly, even at $10 a megabit for bargain-basement bandwidth, unlimited is unworkable. Bell's customer takeup went on a plateau and they wasted no time in moving to a profitable business model from an unprofitable growth phase model.

      --
      ...Steve
    2. Re:Wrong about Sympatico by yabos · · Score: 1

      All I see in that news group is a link to a dslreports thread which I already read and the guy got unlimited and it was a mistake that he had a cap in his contract. People on new contracts get the cap by default but you can call and complain and get uncapped.. for now. 30GB is rediculous to me. I don't do anything shady and I go over that easily. Look at the size of the HD movie trailers. They are 3-4 mins long and 200+MB. Bell owns their own national network so they only have to pay for bandwidth they don't have peering agreements for. I'm sure that's a lot of traffic but Bell would have much lower bandwidth costs having their own network than a smaller ISP would. You can get better capped service from Techsavvy and unlimited if you don't care about cogent being the backbone. All that for lower than Sympatico. Even Rogers has a 100GB cap. That's more reasonable in at least on average less people would hit that cap.

    3. Re:Wrong about Sympatico by DarkJC · · Score: 1

      Rogers only has a 100GB cap for it's Extreme customers (the 6mbps/800kbps plan). Regular customers have a 60GB cap (which is still better than Bell at least).

    4. Re:Wrong about Sympatico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I can think of a lot of very simple reasons someone would need more than that... Let's say one was investigating switching to Linux... well, at 4.5 GB per distribution ISO, some needing two of them... well, we'll say you have that, you have Solaris possibly, etc... hell, when I was just writing reviews of a couple different operating systems for a comparative study I went past 60GB in 15 days...

      What if someone happened to be, lets say, addicted to those streaming porn websites? Those are pretty close to DVD quality, I'm pretty sure a movie or two a night plus the rest of your activity would pretty easily go past 30GB Netflix will, of course, be worse, as I'm sure they'll want higher quality.

      hell, I have a couple hundred megabyte a day usage simply because of my browsing habits, that doesn't count system patches, game trials or updates (many are full CDs in trial software now), free software downloads or patches, Oracle is something like 700 MB

      Saying "you must be stealing it!" is a pretty narrow view of the situation

      I mean hell, there are dozens of services that let you download games or software you buy, not to mention large files that are not copyrighted (the Gutenberg project DVDs for example?)

      Hell, if someone just uses the internet for more than checking e-mail and slashdot 30GB is damn easy to pass... I could fairly simply do that in a day if the pipes handled it, but sadly 5GB a day is about the most I've ever managed...

  30. Blockbuster by H0mez · · Score: 1

    I think this may be Netflixs anti-blockbuster service. Somewhere online you can get Blockbusters version of netflix for 1 month free, but the thing is you can take the DVD's that got sent to you back to the store and pickup any movie rental for free, always giving you basically 3 movies in your posession at one time. It's really awesome and I love it. Netflix is trying to find to tide people over while you are waiting for DVD's in the mail. I don't think this is it, because it does appeal to your average movie watcher, i.e. can't watch it on TV. But at least they are trying.....

    1. Re:Blockbuster by holycrap3007 · · Score: 1

      I agree that blockbuster is the best out there right now. There's no throttling that I can see (netflix dropped me down to about 1 movie a week), you can trade in your movies for more at the store (as you pointed out), and you also get a coupon for an extra in store game/movie rental per month. I'm avg. 12 movies a week vs netflix about 1-2 after throttling. If someone was inclined to make backups that makes a really impressive deal...

  31. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by magicrobotmonkey · · Score: 1

    and what RTSP streaming server are you using?

  32. Ummm by dave420 · · Score: 0

    You can stream up to 1080p H264 with 7.1 surround over the internet. That has been possible for a while now. And, fyi, that's better than DVD quality.

    1. Re:Ummm by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Man, DVD quality video plus audio will saturate my 5Mbps cable connection.

      What's the bitrate of that streamable 1080p? Where can I find it?

  33. This is the net-neutrality argument by cfulmer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This really illustrates the argument over net neutrality: Netflix's service (almost) directly competes with your cable company's video-on-demand service. But, what has to be even more galling to the cable companies, the Netflix service does it by sending video over cable company's own network! (Assuming you get your internet through a cable modem.) No wonder they want to treat different providers differently.

    The problem, of course, is that since most "high-speed" residential internet services still don't provide truly high-speed service, the quality of this Netflix service is probably nowhere near as good as the cable company's video-on-demand service. And, that gives the cable company a big disincentive to upgrade their data network -- as soon as they do, somebody will use that upgraded network to "steal" customers from their other services.

    Because most phone companies also want to provide video over their high-speed networks, the probable end result of this will be that so-called "high-speed" providers will slow their deployment of faster Internet connections. Competition is the only real cure for this.

    1. Re:This is the net-neutrality argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay $60 a month for cable Internet. They are quite able to use that money and keep my tube as wide as they advertise.

    2. Re:This is the net-neutrality argument by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem, of course, is that since most "high-speed" residential internet services still don't provide truly high-speed service, the quality of this Netflix service is probably nowhere near as good as the cable company's video-on-demand service.

      Netflix gets to choose whether this is an issue or not. If they require streaming, then it's a problem. But if you play the movie in MythTV from your hard drive, it doesn't matter the movie you downloaded last night took 30 minutes or 6 hours to transfer.

      They also get to choose how much they'll piss off the cable company. Can the cable company serve the file to their customers out their cheap Squid array, or does each transfer have to use the limited expensive upstream link?

      Competition is the only real cure for this.
      Competition is a damn good idea, but using technology intelligently (actually thinking about what's the smartest way to deliver large files) can make a difference too. :-)
      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  34. 15 years by Mowie_X · · Score: 1

    I predict the movie store goer (generation) still has 15 years left. These are the people my parents age who have no desire to work a DVD player, can check their hotmail, and are at retirement age. Once this very large market dwindles, then this doomsday scenario might have some legs.

  35. Re:No not so weak. was Re:weak feature by phrenq · · Score: 1

    Duh, of course you're right. I did some quick math and figured you could get over 800 megabytes in two hours, and thought, "That should fit a DVD perfectly." I'm still living in the stone age of the CD.

  36. Solutions like yours have been available for years by brokeninside · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The salient point being that these solutions are not wide spread and there are large obstacles to widespread adoption. Consequently, the video rental store has quite a bit of life left.

  37. That nVidia set top box you mention by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    Does it have an optical drive to play existing DVD libraries, a tuner and enough disk space to use for a DVR in addition to being able to play streaming media?

    1. Re:That nVidia set top box you mention by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Not at the moment, but for that price you can use your existing equipment. Digital convergance only happens when synergistical technolgies have been tried and tested in the field. Convergance is powered by market demand, not technological sooth-saying or industry masturbation. Most people already have a tuner, a DVD player and a DVR. The bit they're missing is getting their computer in on the action, and that's what these STBs are doing. Once the mix is proved successful, look for it coming to a sub-$500 set-top-box near you :)

    2. Re:That nVidia set top box you mention by brokeninside · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that it is more likely that the $600 Mac mini (lacking only the TV tuner) will lower in price below $500 before dedicated set top boxes like the $350 nVidia box will add a hard disk, tuner and optical drive and stay below $500.

  38. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by dave420 · · Score: 1

    VideoLan as the source, with Darwin Streaming Server as the actual server (it has better network support - VideoLan, while phenomenal, has some really REALLY peculiar quirks when being talked to over the internet, especially with RTP and RTSP. VideoLan does snappy transcoding on the fly, so I can turn any movies I have in whatever format into, say, mpeg4 audio/video at under 300kb/s, or even flash at 150kb/s, all resized to common dimensions. I wrote a script to generate a VLM config file, writing in all the sources and transcoding instructions, so I can make all my media externally-visible immediately. Obviously if I'm on the same network I can just use a network share - RTSP is only for remote viewing :)

  39. Re:Solutions like yours have been available for ye by dave420 · · Score: 1

    I've been using them for years! :) I hear what you're saying, and now I think these barriers are rapidly falling away. Everyone I know can download at 130KB/s, and everyone I know has the ability to plug a STB into their network and TV and stream movies directly from wheverthey fancy. The weakness of bricks'n'mortar rental stores are being highlighted more and more each day, and services like this really emphasize the shortcomings we all took for granted.

  40. Going to the movies will never end... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's a social thing, something to talk about, a reason to get out of the house. Something to do in public (sort of) with someone of the opposite sex.

  41. Re:No not so weak. was Re:weak feature by afidel · · Score: 1

    Actually if they are using MPEG4 then it's not too bad. Typical MPEG4 movie rips from DVD are around 700MB for 90 minute movies, so they are shortchanging the bitrate a tad, but not so much as to make the film unwatchable. My guess is they are dropping the audio quality to get to that lower bitrate. This sucks for me because I just bought a nice surround sound system and this is probably low quality stereo sound, guess I'll have to wait for the next version =)

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  42. *HOW* is the transfer implemented? by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Ok, it's time to deal with this before it gets too big.

    If the movies are transferred to the user via a good old fashioned protocol like http or ftp, then that means ISPs can cache it. 10000 Comcast users buy the movie, and those gigabytes get transferred from Netflix to Comcast once, and then 10000 times from Comcast's hard drive to the users (assuming those users aren't sharing any "more local" caches).

    If they are using some stupid streaming protocol, then it gets transferred once for each sale. That is really, really stupid. It doesn't just harm Comcast (who, let's face it, is going to pass the cost on to their customers) but it also costs Netflix (oh wait, they will just pass the cost on, too). It also costs everyone in between, pisses off ISPs since they don't like to pass extra costs to the customers ("if we're going to charge customers more, then that extra charge should go into our pocket, dammit!") and that means we get more lobbyist in Washington to get rid of "net neutrality" which not only sucks, but will probably have numerous other distasteful riders attached.

    That means it is you guys -- the customers -- who need to make sure this is done right. If Netflix's approach doesn't work with caches (e.g. Squid) then BOYCOTT IT. Anything that is a technological step backwards from the web, is a disgrace.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:*HOW* is the transfer implemented? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you work for a struggling broadband ISP? Using bandwidth that's already been paid for isn't "harming" anyone; it's more properly called "business". If ISPs have made bad deals, let them choke on their own shortsightedness.

      BTW, I don't think caching and DRM are compatible.

    2. Re:*HOW* is the transfer implemented? by AnyoneEB · · Score: 3, Informative
      BTW, I don't think caching and DRM are compatible.
      Sure they are. Company distributes video file encrypted with AES (or another block cipher) and keep the AES key secret. Anyone can download that file. The company has some DRM scheme such that an asymmetric key is generated such that the DRM utility on the customer's computer is only one with access to the private key. The user pays the company and then the company encrypts the key for the video file with the user's key and sends it off. This key may be stored in a key file or may just be put into the video file as metadata along with the title, etc. It doesn't matter because the key is only usable by that one user. (The decrypted key is never stored on the hard drive and is carefully protected when in memory.) As I understand it, this essentially is how MS's WMV (and WMA?) encryption currently works (in terms of process, not specific algorithms). You can look up details on the WMV protection, which is documented to some extent, but, as far as I know, not cracked.
      --
      Centralization breaks the internet.
    3. Re:*HOW* is the transfer implemented? by panaceaa · · Score: 2, Informative

      BTW, I don't think caching and DRM are compatible.

      Apple iTunes Music Store uses Akamai as their distribution network, which caches copies of all of the iTMS tracks across the globe. Apple still manages to restrict their AAC files by using calls back to Apple to perform DRM management and restrict a user to five copies, or whatever their current policies are.

      I hope the grandparent poster reads this too: If Akamai can cache iTMS's files, and Akamai is a large customer of Adobe's Flash Media Server, which can stream video to customers on demand, then Akamai can figure out how to cache Netflix movies. Maybe they'll use a different technology than Adobe FMS, but their network is completely capable of handling both DRM and streaming. And so should any other caching network.

    4. Re:*HOW* is the transfer implemented? by Sloppy · · Score: 1
      Do you work for a struggling broadband ISP?
      No, but I sympathize with such people.
      Using bandwidth that's already been paid for isn't "harming" anyone; it's more properly called "business".
      It's called "unnecessary cost." And what if it isn't paid for yet?
      BTW, I don't think caching and DRM are compatible.
      DRM isn't important. But if someone really wants to do it, serve moviename.ogg.pgp as cachable, so that the user only has to communicate with the central node to get the relatively tiny key.
      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  43. M$ Only by smartin · · Score: -1, Troll

    Worthless

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
    1. Re:M$ Only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To you.

  44. S-Video to Cat-5 by raddan · · Score: 1

    Sound like you need a couple of these bad boys and a spool of Cat-5e. I have a pair that connects my computer in the den to our big, shiny TV in the living room. It's great. We can watch iTMS videos (like Lost) on our TV. We can watch streaming video on our TV. And when our DVD player broke, we used the computer to play the DVDs, too. For me, this also functions as an easy way to plug iTunes into my stereo system. In all, it was totally worth the investment. And no ugly, fire-breathing computer (9 fans, anyone?) in the living room.

  45. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by Isotopian · · Score: 1

    I used to belong to a private TV streaming website (Crafty TV) that had these same problems. Said problems were soon marginalized however, by properly writing the page with PHP, using uniquely generated hashes to access the video databases. It becomes much more cumbersome to use a stream ripper when you can't get at the url for the video stream.

    --

    It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

  46. Good Next Step by jswinth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a good next step for Netflix. Here is a partial list of what they have done so far:

    • Let the postman deliver and return the movies. This got around the shelf space limit of the physical video store.
    • Introduce a monthly subscription that eliminated late fees. Procrastinators rejoice!
    • Get many of the studios to press (or allow Netflix to press) special editions of movies that travel through the mail better.
    • Compete with the new crop of VOD (video on demand) offerings by including it in the monthly fee (this might be an upgrade feature later).

    Before there was widespread broadband we had a "last mile" problem that everyone was talking about. Now, many here are complaining about the "last room" problem of being able to watch this on their TV. I, for one, am glad that Netflix is not yet trying to solve this problem. It leaves it open to be solved in a non-restrictive way.

    With the fast forward features from Netflix, all I need to stop watching in one room and start in another is a Internet connected browser. How soon before I can play this on my PS3, XBox360, Wii, SlingCatcher, or what ever other device that has the right connection to a TV. For my living room I would want something like the new Apple TV with HDMI connector. For other rooms, maybe I'll try to find some cheap unit with RCA output.

    If Netflix continues to expand the number of movies offered by VOD like they have with DVD then I look forward to my multitude of choices. For action movies and long playing TV series I will continue to get the DVDs in the mail. For romantic movies and cartoons that the wife wants to watch, the downloaded quality would be fine.

  47. Control it? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    What do you use to control the computer from that far away? I've looked into solutions like that, but it seemed like RF remotes or IR-RF-IR converters would be a real PITA and add a lot of complexity.

    I'm in the process of putting together an HTPC system right now, and the remote control issue is the last one that I have to tackle. I'm really not looking forward to it; everything I've read suggests that LIRC is a huge pain.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Control it? by raddan · · Score: 1

      Since I mainly use this for movies, I never bothered looking into the remote. In my case, I'd probably want some kind of RF remote. I don't have any experience with Linux in that regard, but if it's like other kinds of devices that aren't supported by default in your distro (and even some that are, like wireless), you're right, it's probably going to be a major PITA. My iMac at work came with a RF remote that works rather well, and controls all of the things I would need it to control at home, only my home machine does not have this feature.

  48. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by r3m0t · · Score: 1

    Pandora saves unencrypted MP3s in a temporary folder when you use their service.

    The only hurdles to using them are:

    1) the files are deleted as soon as you close Pandora (so copy them while Pandora is still playing)

    2) the files must be renamed to "blah.mp3" instead of "blah"

    They've been playing music from major record labels for a long time now. (I've heard REM and Rufus Wainwright at least)

    You can also put in an artist's name and the first track it plays will be some song by the artist.

  49. Already available in the UK by MtlDty · · Score: 1

    Unless I'm missing something, we've had this service in the UK for the last year or so. It's available via Blueyonder (a cable TV provider who actually laid their own fibre backbone years ago I believe).

    The service is called Teleport, and in a lot of ways it seems better than this offering because it streams instantly (like really, instantly) to the TV. There is no lag, the picture quality is normal broadcast quality, and the price competes with DVD rental (with the obvious bonus of not having to move off your couch).

    As part of the normal cable tv subscription Blueyonder also offer the ability to stream a variety of TV programmes that you may have missed earlier in the week. Streaming TV shows is free. Its almost like having a PVR, but without the need to remember to record stuff. Its a great service that I sorely miss since I moved 6 months ago into a street which isnt wired for cable.

  50. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

    The last time I priced internet service I couldn't afford enough bandwidth to upload a stream. What kind of service do you have? What do you pay?

    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
  51. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that NetFlix need do is release a version of the player for the PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360, or Wii. All of these consoles can access the network, are attached to a suitable display unit, can supply suitable subtitles, and have decent controls. The last generation of consoles are probably the best bet as their price will fall soon. Of course, this would probably make Sony, MS, or Nintendo shit a brick, not to mention the RIAA.

  52. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I assure that it does not seem that easy to the common user. Whenever I plug my laptop into a TV with a S-video cable and a headphones --> stereo RCA adapter everyone watching is either amazed that it is possible or surprised that anyone would ever do such a thing.

  53. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by AnyoneEB · · Score: 1

    Why would anyone rip the Netflix stream which will probably be significantly lower quality than what is already available on various p2p networks?

    --
    Centralization breaks the internet.
  54. Not all S-Video outs are created equally... by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    cheaper cards have lousy tvout. Also, it's a PITA to find an Nvidia card with good tvout, I finally gave up and bought an ATI card (I'm speaking of last gen's cards, I'm too cheap to buy a current gen card :) ).

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  55. whats the main difference? by dmnic · · Score: 1

    isnt this just "On Demand", but for a PC instead of TV?

  56. Ready for AppleTV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this service will work with Apple's almost released $299 AppleTV box

    http://www.apple.com/appletv/

    Both Netflix and Apple should do well.

    AppleTV is a wireless/ethernet device that lets you play media that's on your computer (Mac or Windows) on your TV set at the other end of the house. The negative is that it works through iTunes, so the two will have to work together to make it work with Netflix.

    Will they work together?

  57. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by magicchex · · Score: 1

    And this is why Blockbuster Online is so much better. I can return my 3 movies in-store, and pick out 3 new ones on the spot, as well as knowing that the distribution center ships my next 3 queued movies as soon as I return them in-store, rather than waiting for them to come back to the distribution center. So turn around time for the in-the-mail-movies is half that of Netflix, as well as allowing me to get the 3 extra movies in store every time I go in to return the mail movies. I've gotten 12 DVDs in a week from Blockbuster Online and usually get 9 a week if I'm doing alot of movie watching.

    --
    How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
  58. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by LordKronos · · Score: 1

    Thats interesting....last time I looked, blockbuster was only giving you coupons for 2 in store rentals a month. None the less, I canceled Netflix over a year ago because I didn't even have time to keep up with my 1 movie at a time plan. I started ripping to my mythbox, but before I knew it I had 8 or 10 movies waiting for me. Now I just rent 1 or 2 movies a month from the local Family Video for $2.60 each.

  59. Re:How long before stream rippers run the costs up by magicchex · · Score: 1

    You still get those coupons, but it's only one a month now, on top of each in-mail movie counting as a coupon too.

    --
    How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
  60. Cable+DSL ISPs, if you're reading this... by BalkanBoy · · Score: 1

    ... we need that fiber to the home and/or DOCSIS 2.0/3.0 soon before we're unable to view even simple web pages.

    --
    'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
  61. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by goldarg · · Score: 1

    I'd love to know what your using to do this with, If its a commercial product or something you've built yourself.

    You mention RTSP, Does that mean your using Darwin Streaming server or Quicktime Streaming server?

    I've used Quicktime Broadcaster with Quicktime Streaming Server at work to stream TV to desktops with some success however it sounds like your live re-encoding your media for streaming?

  62. The Internet that ~80% of U.S. home users have... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is too slow to even consider this as a viable option. Maybe it'll be cool when broadband is actually mainstream (It's not, BTW).

    t-man

  63. Amen by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Amen. A PC is the best "thing" I added to my HDTV home theater - by far. Hell, aside from my cable co, its the only other way to (inexpensively) see more HDTV content.

  64. Re:Does everyone wants a fugly PC in the living ro by ben+there... · · Score: 1
    I don't know of many people that want an ugly workstation permanently plugged into their TV or that are willing to plug their laptop in every time they want to stream a film.

    I'm a single guy living in a small apartment, so I usually have my computer setup in the same room as the TV, but even so, I considered buying something like this HTPC case for my next PC. I opted for a mini-tower instead for this build, but I still wouldn't be that ashamed to have it in my living room. Ugly? Not even close. My DVR is my computer. It is handy for watching on TV or while I'm surfing the web, only showing the TV window when it is interesting.

    IMO, the killer appliance would be a DVR priced less than 500 USD with a DVD drive and a network interface capable of pulling movies from all the PCs in the house as well as services such as this.

    I could build a Core 2 Duo PC with that HTPC case for $800 or so, matching the price of the tower I just built. But if I were to make it silent, I would go with an Energy Efficient AMD chip for much less, and could probably get closer to the $500 mark, complete with remote and PVR software. Why would you want a locked-down DVR?
  65. Where's the rage? by maccam · · Score: 1

    So where are the screams about evil DRM and user lock in? Apple is being (frivolously) sued because of the iPod-iTunes-iTunes Store connection, despite the fact that CDs and MP3 files can be imported into iTunes and onto the iPod. The Fairplay DRM is legally stripped from iTunes Store purchases by burning them to CDs. Finally, Apple provides software for Windows users. So along comes Netflix with a MS DRM distribution scheme and no Mac user option, but no outraged reaction to noxious MS DRM and no rants about user lock in. I guess it is OK to be locked in by MS technology.

    --
    Half Word - Will Double, Wire Palindrome, San Francisco
  66. Mac mini costs $600 at the low end by brokeninside · · Score: 1
    It won't be long before it gets into the set top box range. All it lacks is a tuner which is a minimal cost and I predict will start to be included sometime soon.

    But also, please note that I was replying to a post specifying that an old and beat up laptop would solve the problem. It isn't that I don't believe a solution isn't workable so much as I think it will take ten to twenty years for that solution to permeate living rooms in the US to the point where bricks and mortar rental stores are in peril.

  67. Is it the right time? by revolu7ion · · Score: 1

    I work for Quickflix - the Australian equivalent of Netflix. We have over 10,000 compared to about a zillion Netflix members. Our Competitor (Bigpond) announced that they are now offering Video on Demand.
    br> In Australia, we've only just cottoned on to the concept of DVD rentals arriving in your letterbox, so it's at least another few years away until it becomes viable for us to sell and make a profit.

    Our market is generally at the 30-40 something's who have a few bucks. The market for VOD (generalisation) is the 20something - 30something Tech Savvy. The cross section of those two market areas - are potential users of this product, and it's quite small.

    The problem is that we're competing with millions of pirated movies online that are completely free, and you can own. Who wants to pay for a movie when you can get it for free anyway?

    I think in America, you have a larger population, and VOD is more than likely sustainable. But In Australia? It's years away before it becomes a popular alternative to online DVD libraries, and the local Blockbuster.

    --
    Jesus Saves
  68. So, how does the licensing on this work? by bill_kress · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they pay for every copy streamed, or every part thereof.

    Or do they "Set Aside" a video for everyone currently viewing, and if you want to view and they run out of videos, you have to wait?

    Or did they just not bother to check with the MPAA at all?

    I'm hoping the second one. I have a BUNCH of CDs and I'd love to make them available for streaming to a protected player as long as I have "Purchased copies" sitting in reserve. In fact, the concept of a "Music/Movie Co-op" where people donate music or movies in order to stream others isn't far behind.

    What did NetFlix do? What do I have to do to be able to stream movies to people willing to pay for the privilege just like NetFlix??

  69. Re:No not so weak. was Re:weak feature by McFly69 · · Score: 1

    The audio does not take as much disk space as you would think. Typically, on a DVD, full 5.1 takes about 50 megs (after rip) while video takes the other 650. They may be decreasing the video quality or reducing the FPS. Is this Alex from Boston? If so, I tried to get in contact you for a while since you moved to CA.

    --



    NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...