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How the Camera Phone Changed the World

theodp writes "Ten years after the amazing Philippe Kahn married a cell phone and a digital camera to capture the birth of daughter Sophie, Slate takes a look at the impact of the camera phone, the gadget that perverts, vigilantes, and celebrity stalkers can all agree on. 'With this kind of device,' Kahn told Wired, 'you're going to see the best and the worst of things.'"

212 comments

  1. Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    Ten years after the amazing Philippe Kahn married a cell phone and a digital camera

    And people say gay marriage is unnatural!

    And, I didn't know that Kahn is a minister.

    1. Re:Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Camera" is feminine and "Phone" is masculine in my language you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:Some Marriage! by Snarfangel · · Score: 2, Funny

      >>Ten years after the amazing Philippe Kahn married a cell phone and a digital camera

      And people say gay marriage is unnatural!


      Well, marrying a cell phone with another cell phone is just silly.

      --
      This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
    3. Re:Some Marriage! by ddvlad · · Score: 5, Funny
      Well, marrying a cell phone with another cell phone is just silly.

      Yes, but marying a cell phone and two cameras is 3G. What is the world coming too?

      --
      Cornholio is a prophet.
    4. Re:Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to be a minister to perform a marriage. I used to perform hundreds of them for the minister down the road in his hay barn on his dairy farm. We just kept stacking them up and when things got tight we married a couple of them and kept right on going. Every winter they would get seperated and swallowed up in the normal course of business. Hay, what else did you expect?

    5. Re:Some Marriage! by wwwillem · · Score: 2, Interesting
      but marying a cell phone and two cameras is 3G


      You mean 3D ... :-)

      That would be cool, having two of those tiny cameras in your phone and then being able to send 3D stereo pictures. Only thing to figure out is how to display them, but I've seen solutions for that too (single screen, no glasses / goggles).

      --
      Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
    6. Re:Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      kaaaaaaaaaaahn!!!!!!

      sorry i had it do it

    7. Re:Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just as with gay marriage, the wedding of the cell phone and digital camera should never have happened. Both marriages have reduced the quality of life despite proponents saying they are good for us.

    8. Re:Some Marriage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it just me, or has this "insensitive clod" joke become very, very old by now?

    9. Re:Some Marriage! by vaksion · · Score: 1

      It's astounding what some people do. Yes, a camera in a cellphone is a giant leap forward from .... well just the phone itself. It is amazing, yes, but the cameras aren't very high-quality. Of course, what can you expect? Its a camera phone.

    10. Re:Some Marriage! by chawly · · Score: 0

      if my advice is any good to you - an oldie certainly, but in this context a definite goody

      --
      How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley
    11. Re:Some Marriage! by Duds · · Score: 1

      Er... No he does mean 3G. One in the back for actual photos, one in the front for video calls. All true 3G phones have that setup.

  2. Re:What? by Snarfangel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Camera phones have such poor quality. Why don't you just buy a disposable one for a few bucks and save yourself some pain.

    If only they'd put a crappy phone on a high-quality camera, I'd be set.

    --
    This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
  3. Camera Phones Suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do a lot of business with companies who for security reasons will not let you take a camera phone onto their premises. I also have to leave mine at home when I go to parents evening just in case I might possibly take a picture of a school pupil.

    Now, have you tried to get a non camera phone lately? Difficult to say the least.

    If I want to take a picture then I get my Digital Camera out (Nikon D2x) and do it properly.

    Current camera phones have the same quality as CCTV cameras did 10 years ago.

    I'm sorry (and will probably get modded down as a troll) this is one invention I could certainly do without.

    1. Re:Camera Phones Suck by mabinogi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > I also have to leave mine at home when I go to parents evening just in case I might possibly take a picture of a school pupil.
      what?

      When parents can't take photos at school events, it may not be the terrorists, but someone has certainly won....
      I know that my daughter's school has no problems with parents with cameras, whether they be phone cameras, handicams, or SLRs. Have things really sunk that far elsewhere?

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    2. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Oxygen99 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should try the Motorola W220 Don't know if you can get it in your part of the world, but nice phone, no camera. Sorted.

      --
      I had a dream, bright and carefree, but now there's doubt and gravity
    3. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Are there any phones these days that dont have camera capabilities?

      I have a very basic phone and it has a camera the quality is rubbish but its still a camera.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    4. Re:Camera Phones Suck by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what camera phones you've been using, but take a look at this photo I took with a camera phone. I think the quality is rather better than you might suggest (3 mega pixel).

      Cameras within phones aren't yet perfect; the optical zoom hasn't yet been perfected and there's still the small issue of having to hold it quite still, but the camera phone is still good at the job it's intended for. If I'm going on vacation, then sure I'll take my proper digital camera with me. If I'm at a party or even out and about and see a photo opportunity, the phone is an ideal tool to take a quick snap.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    5. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of a parent's camera phone being a problem at school.

      Complain as much as you like, the problem is that I think for a non-camera phone to exist, people need to be willing to pay more for them. The market for a phone without a camera is apparently a lot smaller and the camera element is cheap enough that a non-camera phone will cost more than a camera phone just by economies of scale. Most people seem to value features, and the convenience of a camera on a phone has been shown to be extremely popular such that Nokia became the world's largest camera manufacturer.

      For taking quality pictures, I would always use a separate camera whenever possible. Still, I would value the ability to snap pictures in case I forgot or an unforseen circumstance came up that I need to shoot a picture. I can't carry my dedicated camera everywhere so the convenience of a compact device helps a lot.

    6. Re:Camera Phones Suck by timmyf2371 · · Score: 2, Informative

      My mum uses one of these. She's really not into the whole "get a jack-of-all-trades" thing, but just requires a very basic phone in case her car breaks down or in case she's out and wants peace of mind.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    7. Re:Camera Phones Suck by identity0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, camera phones do have uses beyond taking fuzzy pictures of your drunk friends. Unfortunately they don't seem to be coming over to the states for some reason.

      If you've seen any Japanese magazines or websites lately, you'll notice square barcode-type things on some ads or sites. See the bottom left of this site. They allow you to use your phone camera to take a pic, then your camera web browser goes to an address encoded in the pic without having to type in the address. Basically the same thing Cue:Cat did, but on commodity hardware.

      Okay, now you're thinking, "So what? I can get ads easier?", but there are other uses for the technology, too. I've heard some European countries have methods of paying for stuff using a cell phone, where you take a pic of a barcode like that, and the price is charged to your cell account.

      Basically, don't just think of it as "A crappy camera glued to a cell phone", but as "An optical sensor attached to a pervasivly-networked device". There is a world of possibility in using it as an input device for ubiquitous computing. Where other attempts to make computer interaction seamless in the real world have failed, the camerphone might succeed because it uses technology that is useful for other things (camera + phone, regular printer + ink), and widely adopted by the public already. It's all a matter of software to make it useful, no new harware needed.

    8. Re:Camera Phones Suck by gregtron · · Score: 1

      I work in a refinery, where security is extremely prohibitive towards cameras and camera phones. It's bad enough now that they threaten to confiscate your camera/camera phone, and ship it and you off to Homeland Security. This wouldn't be so bad, but like much of the /. commune, I'm a total gadget whore. My ridiculous solution: Two phones, a gadgety camphone, and a sophisticated Blackberry with no camera.

    9. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Funny
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    10. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Teresita · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I work in a refinery, where security is extremely prohibitive towards cameras and camera phones"

      The morons. Just wait until Moore's Law really kicks in, and we get camera phones built right in to the collar of one's blouse or polo shirt. Don't they know there's a singularity coming?

    11. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sheesh! That phone is one ugly piece of crap. Who cares whether it works or not.

    12. Re:Camera Phones Suck by juhaz · · Score: 1

      I don't know what camera phones you've been using, but take a look at this photo I took with a camera phone. I think the quality is rather better than you might suggest (3 mega pixel).

      Are you kidding? If not, no offense but that's a horrible picture. I wouldn't even talk about it the same day as quality.

      It's inevenly lit, blurry enough that the small text is almost illegible even at the original resolution, so it's got underpowered flash or too small lens (probably both), it's also noisy, light parts are badly overexposed, and it's crooked (which, while not exactly the phones fault is no doubt compounded by trying to frame a photo on a tiny screen). And that's with a high end camera phone. Actually, it's a perfect demonstration of how crappy cameraphones are. And for debunking the megapixel myth.

      It doesn't matter how many pixels a sensor has if it's not getting enough light through small and lousy lens, and very small sensors with high resolution also suffer from large amount of noise.

      Cameras within phones aren't yet perfect; the optical zoom hasn't yet been perfected and there's still the small issue of having to hold it quite still

      Most of them don't even HAVE optical zoom, and somehow ultracompacts almost as small don't suffer from these "minor" issues, you can take amazing shots with Ixus/Elph/...

    13. Re:Camera Phones Suck by sarathmenon · · Score: 1

      I have a 5 MP camera phone as I write this. Things are starting to get better in the phone area, so much that I guess 5 - 10 years later, we might see the promised ubiquitous all in one device. It isn't perfect today, but for non-professional use, a camera phone is more than what the majority requires.

      --
      Microsoft: "You've got questions. We've got dancing paperclips."
    14. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Ortega-Starfire · · Score: 1

      The telecom that I work for (which will remain unnamed) offers a cell phone without a camera. In fact, after perusing 3 other major cell providers, they do too. Most major phone companies realize that a cameraphone is not for everyone.

      --
      ---- Liquid was a patriot ----
    15. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jlarocco · · Score: 2
      I have a 5 MP camera phone as I write this. Things are starting to get better in the phone area, so much that I guess 5 - 10 years later, we might see the promised ubiquitous all in one device. It isn't perfect today, but for non-professional use, a camera phone is more than what the majority requires.

      You're missing the point. They haven't even got the phone part down yet, but instead of making the actual phone features better, they're wasting time on the camera. Of course they're doing it to take your mind away from how bad the phone is in all other respects, and it seems to be working out nicely for them.

      When they have a phone that has a couple days of talk time per battery, a month of standby, never drops calls, and lets me save text messages/incoming calls/missed calls indefinitely, they can go ahead and add all the extra shit they want. Until then, it'd be nice if they could get their priorities straight.

    16. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I do a lot of business with companies who for security reasons will not let you take a camera phone onto their premises.

      This is partly security theatre and much like companies which wouldn't let anybody have a personal computer when they first came out (that is to say, they have a point in theory, but the way they do it mostly loses out to no benefit). There are many other ways to sneak a small camera inside. A cell phone is one of the most open ways.

      It's also stupid. My main use for my camera phone is notes. E.g. photos of a whiteboard during a meeting, a photo of a (stupid long) nametag on a printer etc.

      > Now, have you tried to get a non camera phone lately? Difficult to say the least.

      Nokia makes several recent high feature ones in their business range; I could accuse them of pandering to stupidity, but I guess they would say that the customer is always right.

      > Current camera phones have the same quality as CCTV cameras did 10 years ago.

      Mine is 2Mpix. In the right light it's almost as good as the first real digital camera I bought in 2001. I have some great pictures with both. Of course, if I had had my current real camera then they would be better, but in each case there was always a reason why I couldn't.

    17. Re:Camera Phones Suck by 1110110001 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's very similar to Semacode. They have readers for your mobile phone and you can create tags on their homepage. As usual you can find more information at Wikipedia.

      PS: There's also a reader for your computer that takes a picture. Combine that with isightcapture and a little Dashboard widget and you could also use it on your Intel Mac.

    18. Re:Camera Phones Suck by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      The page you linked to when I looked did not have any 5 megapixel camera phones. The Nokia N95 isn't due to be released for a month or two (or 5). The N73 that was on the page is a 3.2 megapixel camera, not so bad, though I think the K800 gives visibly better results. Samsung and LG have released a couple of 5 megapixel camera's (and higher) that have a cell phone hacked in as a bit of an afterthought. Mostly these are only available in Korea or Japan, they do seem to trickle through to the Philippines pretty quickly though. You didn't say what model you had?

    19. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No offense, bud, but that photo is rubbish. It's not about the megapixels, but rather the quality of the optics and the size of the imaging sensor. The photo you posted probably reflects the absolute best your camera phone can do under ideal conditions (bright daylight, non-moving subject.) That photo is barely good enough to capture a scene to remember or record something but it's hardly worthy of sharing in a photo album (digital or otherwise) and certainly would look even worse if printed on paper.

      Now even assuming you accept that picture's lack of sharpness, saturation, and level of detail as "pretty good", we come to the subject of what a dull and boring picture it is. Why? Because your camera would be entirely useless in most conditions where there was something interesting to photograph. Your best bet would be taking snapshots of pretty landscapes in bright daylight, but you can forget about indoor or night time pictures as well as any sort of people pictures that don't involve patient posing on behalf of the subject.

    20. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been to events like that. Where some peon wants to check my phone for camera or some shit. I just said "no" and kept on walking. Most of these little shits are used to getting their way. When faced with open defiance they lock up. The key is to keep on walking, by the time they recover your long gone.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    21. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Dorceon · · Score: 1

      I do think QR codes are awesome. After all, why give out a pamphlet with a bunch of info printed on it when you can just put up a QR code that goes to a website with that info on it? (Answer: everyone has cell phones but tourists.) I especially like how when you enter Japan, your visa isn't a stamp--it's a sticker, and the sticker has a QR code on it.

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
    22. Re:Camera Phones Suck by StarWarsRelatedPun · · Score: 1

      I agree that camera phones are stupid. In regards to the school's rules, though, understand that children also can't be shown on television for safety reasons. I've worked for my public access station, and they have the same rules -- no kids without written permision from the parent. It has little to do with pedophiles or anything like that -- more to do with custody issues.

    23. Re:Camera Phones Suck by caveat · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that a pro photographer (if you aren't a pro and you dropped five grand on a camera body that does practically nothing more than my D70 for 99.98% of the populace INCLUDING pros...can I have some money?) should be tech-savvy enough to know that non-camera phones are very easy to come by; a quick check at the Verizon store shows at least five phones with no cameras.

      Make calls and send text messages, maybe a speakerphone and Bluetooth. If you want all the other bells and whistles (mobile web, media players, so forth and so on), you'll probably have to settle for a camera, but if you just want a no-frills wireless telephone, they aren't very hard to find at all. (Cheap and durable, too!)

      --

      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
    24. Re:Camera Phones Suck by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >(if you aren't a pro and you dropped five grand on a camera body that does practically nothing more than my D70 for 99.98%
      > of the populace INCLUDING pros...can I have some money?

      OTOH, I *would* like a full-frame DSLR. I find it annoying that wide-angle photography is expensive now.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    25. Re:Camera Phones Suck by packeteer · · Score: 1

      Actually its acadamia who controls the liberals. Think about that one...

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    26. Re:Camera Phones Suck by celardore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I remember a couple of years ago I was in a swimming pool with friends. They had a little pool for kids to swim in, which was empty save for a gran & grandpa and their grandchild. They wanted to take a snapshot of the kid swimming for the first time, the lifeguard then came over and said they weren't allowed cameras and tried to confiscate it. They argued that it was only their grandkid even in the area let alone the shot. The manager was called and eventually the grandparents had to leave with no first photo of the kid swimming, which I'm sure would have been a treasured memory for the whole family.

      That was a couple of years ago at least, but remember... I live in the UK. These rules are commonplace. I wouldn't be surprised if you're not allowed to take pictures of your own kid winning the race at sports days, just in case you're a pedophile.

      Just had a thought... I know that there are photos of me and my sisters in the bath when we were very young. I think my mother has them in a drawer somewhere, should I report her to the authorities???

    27. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jeremymiles · · Score: 1

      I've just moved from the UK to the US (with kids). Maybe it's where I am (LA) but I've seen no rules about taking photos (or not taking photos) of my, or anyone else's kids. Compare this to London, where my sister was not allowed to *draw* children in a park.

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    28. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Markieman234 · · Score: 1

      I would be very surprised if CCTV cameras produced a 3.2 megapixel image 10 years ago. Or even today, for that matter.
      Today's new camera phones are highly sophisticated pieces of equipment, the current phone I use, the Sony Ericsson K800i has the above 3.2MP as well as a real xenon flash. The quality of the photos it makes is comparable to that of what digital cameras made 3-4 years ago. Okay, it dosn't have an optical zoom, but adding one would be impracticle. Who wants a massive lens poking out of their phone?
      What else does the phone do?
      Full 3G/UMTS support via a secondary VGA camera on the front of the phone, a huge, high-res screen, a memory stick micro (M2) slot for additional capacity / MP3/3GP Video playback, plus all the standard features (Java, MMS, full HTML browsing). In fact, the only other feature I wish it had was wi-fi support.
      While not the smallest phone in the world, it still manages to stay fairly compact and light.
      How much did I pay for it?
      Nothing. I have a twelve month contract which includes 500 anytime, any network minutes and 600 text messages for £26 a month. The phone was free with the contract, which in my opinion is in itself an excellent deal.

      Why is everybody so paranoid about camera phones and privacy or "OMG if that person takes a photo of me doing X activity I could get sued!!!" in the US?
      There are a few places here like for exmaple gyms where they don't really allow them but not to have them in schools is just darn right stupid.
      Why were cell phones / PDAs / Laptops invented in the first place? Portable convenience. Not allowing that portable convenience takes away the whole point of such technology, forbidding it we may as well go back to the middle ages. Or worse, using those crappy brick analogue 1G phones of the early 90s.

    29. Re:Camera Phones Suck by llefler · · Score: 1

      Complain as much as you like, the problem is that I think for a non-camera phone to exist, people need to be willing to pay more for them.

      There is some truth to this. It's not necessarily that there aren't people who want to buy them, it's that those people aren't the ones that companies want to appeal to. I've had my Samsung E105 for a little over two years. During the same period, a friend has had at least 6 different phones. He's had camera phones from various manufacturers, PDA phones, and in just the last 3 months two aircards.

      The only new feature for years that has had any appeal to me is the integrated MP3 players. I looked at his newly acquired red Razor, and it has so much crap on it that apparently the only place they could find for the SD card was under the battery. That's real convenient. So as a customer there isn't a whole lot I'm going to contributing to their bottom line.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    30. Re:Camera Phones Suck by sarathmenon · · Score: 1

      my bad. I guess expansys changes their pages every now and then. The phone is a gigabyte g-cam. Its a monster in size, but it has a decent battery size, plus amazing features.

      I guess they put too much into it because they are an unknown name in the mobile industry. If you are not afraid to expermiment, I'd recommend this one.

      --
      Microsoft: "You've got questions. We've got dancing paperclips."
    31. Re:Camera Phones Suck by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I don't know what your definition of 3 megapixel is, but that picture is 500x375 which is 0.1875 megapixels. Even at that, it's fuzzy... I"d guess the effective resolution is probably less than a quarter of that.

      Still, it is quite a good shot for a camera phone.

    32. Re:Camera Phones Suck by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the actual area of the lens on even an ultracompact camera and the area of the lens on a cell phone. If you're still not convinced check out the thickness. That's why camera phones suck.

      When the first camera phone needs a lens cap then you'll have a decent camera in a phone.

    33. Re:Camera Phones Suck by brumby · · Score: 2, Informative

      When parents can't take photos at school events, it may not be the terrorists, but someone has certainly won....

      If my children's school hires a professional photographer to take any photos, then a condition of the professionals contract is that all other cameras are banned. That way, you have to buy your photos off him.

    34. Re:Camera Phones Suck by fredrated · · Score: 1

      "Actually its acadamia who controls the liberals. Think about that one..."

      I did and nothing comes to me, what are you driving at?

    35. Re:Camera Phones Suck by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      I work in a refinery, where security is extremely prohibitive towards cameras and camera phones.

      Yeah, like industrial spies/terrorists would be able to figure out what's happening in something like this. That linked image is a pretty low-density one as far as process piping spaghetti goes. I like to think of this type of organized mess as very big 3D motherboard circuitry except that the "wires" contain multiple fluids rather than electricity and require tons of steel and concrete for support.

    36. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Ouch. At my school the photographer takes a photo with his camera, and then I hand him my cameraphone (2megapixel) and ask him to take a photo with it. Of course, in my school the photographer is an employee of the school and the photos are free (or covered in tuition, I don't know which- just that the photos are put online and you print them yourself).

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    37. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      "ou can get a very decent 5 or 6 megapixel camera for $85-$150"
      Oh really- like what? I can't find any with quality better than my cameraphone for that price. All the decent cameras cost in the neighborhood of $250+ new. I can get a 2MP cameraphone with autofocus for $25. The only catch is its dubious origin. I had an older cameraphone stolen from me and found it at the market I bought this one from. I know it's mine but can't conclusively prove it because when I bought it the IMEI printed on the back of the phone didn't match the IMEI shown by pressing *#06# (strange, but I think it had something to do with the unlocking procedure). Of course, everything was erased when it was taken from me as well. I probably technically have no right to this phone but then again, I live in China.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    38. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      ... which my phone refuses to read properly (it spews some garbage characters at me when I try to scan it).

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    39. Re:Camera Phones Suck by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      "Who wants a massive lens poking out of their phone?"
      Look at some of the Sharp phones available (9xxSH series)- zoom doesn't mean having a lens sticking out of the phone.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    40. Re:Camera Phones Suck by Splab · · Score: 1

      So you got no pictures/movies showing school plays or other events with your children in school?

      That is so sad, I mean, pictures are great to help your kids remember such fond times.

    41. Re:Camera Phones Suck by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Taking pictures of your kid (or any other, for that matter) sans clothing is perfectly legal, in the US at least. The only time it becomes illegal is if there are prurient interests or intents.

      My kids think it's hilarious to run around the house with their clothes off, and I'll be damned if I don't have the event properly documented to show the family and, especially, their first girlfriends.

      I won't say it's wrong for the security guard to ask some questions if he sees something suspicious, but in all reality, someone with malicious intent will just lie, and preventing a photo at a pool won't prevent a telescopic lense, or a hidden camera, etc., so it's fairly pointless, while at the same time making the innocent grandparents feel guilty. Some degree of suspicion is healthy, but when a society succombs to paranoia, it tends to be detrimental in the long run. I'm a firm believer that it's better for a society to tolerate a certain degree of lawlessness that comes with freedom, than to investigate every occurance that's "out of the ordinary." That is, it must accept that some things are out of its control, and some of those things may be lawless. It may be prudent to err on the side of caution, but too far on the "cautious" side is just as dangerous for a society as too far on the reckless. In all things, moderation.

    42. Re:Camera Phones Suck by gknoy · · Score: 1
      Current camera phones have the same quality as CCTV cameras did 10 years ago.
      I'm sorry (and will probably get modded down as a troll) this is one invention I could certainly do without.


      It depends on what you choose to use it for. I generally don't use my phone to take photos of important things -- and yet, the best photos I have of my cats are on my phone. They're GREAT for impromptu shots, even if the quality is completely crappy.

      I find that I use my phone most when I am at the bookstore -- taking pictures of books that look interesting so that I can look them up later, or prioritize them for when I feel they are within my means. For that, it's really handy.
    43. Re:Camera Phones Suck by evansvillelinux · · Score: 1

      Just had a thought... I know that there are photos of me and my sisters in the bath when we were very young. I think my mother has them in a drawer somewhere, should I report her to the authorities??? Funny you mention this. Recently I was at a local Walmart in the photo center and a lady was arguing with the clerk over pictures that weren't in the envelope. The lady (mom or grandma) was pissed because the Walmart clerk refused to give them pictures of a kid in the bathtub because (GASP) the kid was naked. Times sure have changed since I was a kiddo!
      --
      IMHO, IANAL, TINLA, etc...
  4. Like most things good and bad (depending on use) by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The good: as a tool to conveniently record crime or emergency. (in addition to quotidian snapshot use) The bad: abuse/invasion of privacy. neither: as tool to do work (as an evidentiary tool recording what one has done or has observed in a job role) So, the variable is intent.

  5. Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by king-manic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But I still keep my cell phone picks. Pictures are mementoes for most people. That crazy night when me and the girls snuck into the basement of bio-sci just as it closed and rode around on carts and chucked dry ice into the toilets.... Those types of memories don't need a 20 megapixel roloflex camera. Thats what I use it for.. and also naughty photos. just too pervy pulling out a SLR to take those pictures. It makes girls a bit nervous.

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    1. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tell us more of these "girls" you speak of.

    2. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The pics that come from my horrible cameraphone are, well, horrible. Grainy, poorly lit, low-resolution (640x480 max), and are a huge pain to get off of the camera without texting them to my email address at insane rates from Verizon. But I couldn't reasonably tote around my old point-and-shoot around in a pocket like I can with my cell, and I certainly don't expect my new SLR to be any more manageable in that respect.

      It's good for those spur-of-the-moment "I want to remember this" shots. Yeah, if you're going on vacation, you expect to take photos and bring along a real camera. But when the kid two dorms down has a hamper stuck to his ass, chances are you don't have a decent camera around. As it was, I did, but that's only because it was in my room at the time. Everyone else in the room whipped out their cell and snapped off a quick shot, just as I would have were my point-and-shoot not luckily available at the time.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    3. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Where can we find pictures of this hampster stuck in one's ass?

      This could be the new "goatse"...

    4. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by solevita · · Score: 1

      Washed out, grainy, bad contrast? That's how my eyes work when I'm trashed - my camera phone takes perfectly appropriate photos. Everything on my digital Leica job looks far too sharp.

    5. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by icebrain · · Score: 1

      They're also nice when you're looking around at a bookstore and find a book you like, but don't feel like getting at the moment. You can take a picture of it for reference, and look at it later.

      My phone also has enough resolution that, if I miss a day of class and need to get notes, I can just take a picture of someone else's (with their permission, of course) and transcribe it later.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    6. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Teresita · · Score: 2, Funny

      "My phone also has enough resolution that, if I miss a day of class and need to get notes, I can just take a picture of someone else's (with their permission, of course) and transcribe it later"

      Or maybe a buddy can squirt his notes to you. Unless he idly scribbled the lyrics of some Sony-owned pop song in the margin. Then the OCR kicks in and disables the wi-fi feature.

    7. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Tell us more of these "girls" you speak of.

      Pics?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    8. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 1

      That's why you need an 8x10; you can convince them it's "Art" (in capitals, no less). An SLR is just an invitation to end up on the front of "Weekly World News".

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    9. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      Pics or it didn't happen!

    10. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You just have to do it right. With a camera phone it's pervy. With an SLR it's art.

    11. Re:Washed out, grainy, bad contrast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only on /. would this be modded interesting. You really think girls are going to get "a bit nervous" if you pull out a real camera, if you're taking "naughty pics" anyway? Please!

  6. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    2003 called. It wants its criticisms of cameraphones back.

  7. I have a digital camera. by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

    Its very small, but its still not as small as my RAZR, and considering all the other crap in my pockets, i dont need the added weight making my pants fall down. Its nice to have a camera with you at all times and not have the extra bulk of it. I was semi-involved in a car accident last week, once we all pulled over everybody whipped out their camera phones. Also for spur of the moment crap that i'd never have a picture of otherwise. Now if im doing dedicated photography, or am somewhere that i know ill want good pictures (holidays, some parties, etc), then i'll bring my good camera since its better suited to the task.

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    1. Re:I have a digital camera. by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      i dont need the added weight making my pants fall down.

      Back in the day we solved this problem by buying pants that fit; although I admit it is amusing to watch the chavs trying to play basketball with one hand tied up in the problem of holding their pants up.

      And extra amusing when one of them manages to trip over their own pants.

      KFG

    2. Re:I have a digital camera. by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Many people laugh at the youths that wear baggy pants where the crotches hang at mid-thigh level. Some say it is for weapon concealment, but the truth is that it is for protection against getting kicked in the balls (acts as a shock absorber).

    3. Re:I have a digital camera. by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      You could just not hang around morons who'll be kicking people in the balls.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    4. Re:I have a digital camera. by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      I'm over 40 and ride the train to work every day, so I don't usually hang around with ball-kicking morons. I observed this phenomenon while two younger guys riding the same train as me took turns kicking each other between the legs recently.

    5. Re:I have a digital camera. by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      Darwinism in action.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  8. You don't have to watch by organicflash · · Score: 1

    "We'll see the best of things, we'll see the worst of things, we'll see everything."

    Not me. Holy shite. The Daniel Pearl video? Saddam's hanging? Freakin' nightmares for sure.

    On the other hand; Jessica's Biels heiny. Dat's good schtuff. Not a camera phone, but a good way to start the day.

  9. why o why? by localoptimum · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I HATE camera phones. What I'd like is a good, tiny phone, where the batteries last for ages. If I want to take a photo I get out my digital SLR and a 700 euro lens, I don't think "ah, now I've got my phone, I can leave my camera at home".

    Here's the problem. The cellphone was supposed to make it easy for people to be reached on-the-move. For "security" reasons we are not allowed to use our phone everywhere, because the people who are taking photos of us and watching us on videos don't want us to take photos or videos of them (just count how many police brutality incidents on youtube also involve the rough handling of the guy capturing said incident on a camera). On european trains there are "quiet" zones where phones are banned, and if we use our phone on a plane then the phone will immediately detonate all of the explosive liquids stored in passenger's hand-luggage and cause sony lithium-ion batteries in apple G4 powerbooks to burst into flames.

    Lastly, and even more importantly than plane death, upgrading the phone's camera just gives the mobile phone industry another excuse to charge you a higher subscription than the previous year.

    --
    This message was scanned by European governments and contains no terrorism.
    1. Re:why o why? by hotzeyboy · · Score: 1

      Just find the US equivalent of this phone http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1600/ It's cheap ( 1 week) if you turn off the screensaver It even has a colour screen Just dont expect any features besides phone/text

    2. Re:why o why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get the camera and all the other gadgets because those kinds of features sell phones in Asian countries, where most of the phones are made.
      They love that kind of thing!

      The extra features don't really do so much for people in the west, but you might as well have them anyway as there is no point in making alternate crippled versions of the phones.

    3. Re:why o why? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      then buy an old nokia 8210 and a modern li-poly battery for it. it is small (although not very light) and you can get 10 days standby without a problem.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    4. Re:why o why? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      Just find the US equivalent of this phone http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1600/ It's cheap ( 1 week) if you turn off the screensaver It even has a colour screen Just dont expect any features besides phone/text

      I got a Nokia 3120 free with a Cingular 1-year plan. Basically the same thing with a different power button (which failed after a year, but looks like the 1600 is better since it isn't a rubber-covered hard-to-push button on top!). It did phone/text excellently and even had a usable WAP browser and I think e-mail functionality included. If you dig down into the menus, those small Nokias are a bit more functional than they are given credit for!

      -b.

    5. Re:why o why? by east+coast · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I HATE camera phones.

      Hot ticket, pal: don't friggin buy one then.

      What I'd like is a good, tiny phone, where the batteries last for ages.Not knowing what your definition of "ages" is makes this a hard point to talk over but I get 5 days of regular use (normally 15 minutes of talk a day, 24-7 standby) out of my Samsung (with a camera!)

      If I want to take a photo I get out my digital SLR and a 700 euro lens, I don't think "ah, now I've got my phone, I can leave my camera at home".

      If you're toting that thing around with you every and you don't do photography professionally that's just foolishness. Don't get me wrong, carry what you like, but Joe Sixpack (and 95% of all slashdotters for that matter) don't want to carry a normal camera around with them let alone a SLR. It's nice that you pat yourself on your back with all your fancy equipment but the fact is that it hurts your debate against cell phone/camera integration. That's akin to say "I own a pair of Sennheiser Prestige HD590s, why would I want a small pair of ear pods for when I'm out and about with my mp3 player?". Some people would be impressed that I own the Sennheiser, some people would understand that it would be incredibly stupid for me to lug around my headphones when I'm out walking the track.

      Here's the problem. The cellphone was supposed to make it easy for people to be reached on-the-move. For "security" reasons we are not allowed to use our phone everywhere

      I don't know where you are but in my local area I've never seen this. While I do understand and know of areas where photos are banned I've never heard of anyone getting harassed in these areas for using a cell phone.

      The rest of your argument deals with general technophobia and has nothing to do with the camera aspect of a cell phone. Oh well...

      upgrading the phone's camera just gives the mobile phone industry another excuse to charge you a higher subscription than the previous year.

      Really? Again, not knowing your situation... My cell service provider's plans have decrease since the introduction of the camera phone. I don't think the camera aspect has anything to do with it, they do charge 0.10 USD per picture sent over the cellphone without an inclusive package. They charge the exact same for text messages too.

      Furthermore, not to beat a subject to death, I have used my camera phone for productive reasons. There's a million times that I found myself saying, "if only I could get a picture of this". Digital cameras were nice because there was no processing time, but I didn't carry mine unless I really felt I was going to use it. Now I don't worry about it.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    6. Re:why o why? by fishbowl · · Score: 1


      >If you're toting that thing around with you every and you don't do photography professionally that's just foolishness.

      Foolishness? I carry my SLR almost everywhere I go. I did in the film era too. Admittedly, I tend to use my snapshot camera a lot (A nice Canon), but I don't see where the foolishness comes in?

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    7. Re:why o why? by ptbarnett · · Score: 1
      Hot ticket, pal: don't friggin buy one then.

      If you only want a really basic phone, then you can buy one without a camera. But, if you want one with other features (like WAP, which I use to check my email), it's almost always bundled with a camera. I'm only seen one exception: Palm makes a "corporate" version of the Treo 650 without a camera, but it's a special order.

      I don't know where you are but in my local area I've never seen this. While I do understand and know of areas where photos are banned I've never heard of anyone getting harassed in these areas for using a cell phone.

      I've worked for several clients that ban camera phones on their premises. By policy (and in some cases, by law), cameras are banned -- therefore camera phones are banned.

    8. Re:why o why? by localoptimum · · Score: 1
      Hot ticket, pal: don't friggin buy one then.

      Thanks for the tip. Clearly you've not been into a European cell phone store recently...

      If you're toting that thing around with you every and you don't do photography professionally that's just foolishness. I hate to sound like a camera snob, but I really can see the difference between a 2 megapixel photo from a phone through a plastic-coated snap-on lens compared to my 8 megapixel canon SLR with an L-lens. Can't you? Trying to impress people has nothing to do with it.

      I don't know where you are but in my local area I've never seen this. While I do understand and know of areas where photos are banned I've never heard of anyone getting harassed in these areas for using a cell phone.

      Unfortunately, these areas are becoming prevalent in the UK. Fortunately, I'm not in the UK so much these days, but the EU is often not far behind the UK on things like this. I think you are lucky if you've not yet been harassed! ;-)

      The rest of your argument deals with general technophobia and has nothing to do with the camera aspect of a cell phone. Oh well...

      No, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not a technophobe. I'm not even going to go down that route of justifying my joke by listing my qualifications and what I do for a living, otherwise you'll then accuse me of trying to impress you ;-) I was having a little rant at the expense of the idiots who make up the rules for our "security".

      Really? Again, not knowing your situation... My cell service provider's plans have decrease since the introduction of the camera phone. I don't think the camera aspect has anything to do with it, they do charge 0.10 USD per picture sent over the cellphone without an inclusive package. They charge the exact same for text messages too.

      The USA is known for offering much fairer prices for things like this! We were paying something like 50 cents a picture in Europe when I opened my contract, so I never sent one. But if you are happy with your camera phone, that's great. It's likely to change soon in Europe, because the prices charged by mobile phone network companies are now in the gunsights of the E.U. courts...

      --
      This message was scanned by European governments and contains no terrorism.
    9. Re:why o why? by seriesrover · · Score: 1
      You're entirely missing the grandfathers point. The overwhelming majority of people do not carry a camera around with them. Even if you're a professional photographer do you carry your SLR do-dah when going to the pub, a friends house, do you leave it in the car in every instance?


      Yes most can see the different in quality between 2 and 8 MP but its not about quality but about convenience. The arguement is that they DO have a place for use with everyone and provide something that the regular SLR on a tripod with crap loads of gear can not provide - they're small and ready to use in seconds. Its not about 2 v. 8 MP quality but about 2MP v. not having ability to take a photo at all.

    10. Re:why o why? by SilentOneNCW · · Score: 1

      I have a Motorala V235 and it lasts for about a week to ten days before I have to charge it again -- it has a readable colour screen, a good UI, and a camera. Who ever said cameras and battery life were mutually exclusive?

    11. Re:why o why? by east+coast · · Score: 1

      I hate to sound like a camera snob, but I really can see the difference between a 2 megapixel photo from a phone through a plastic-coated snap-on lens compared to my 8 megapixel canon SLR with an L-lens. Can't you?

      Generally speaking we're not talking about taking wedding photos here. I'm in no way claiming that the camera phone is a replacement but it does hold a place. I still have my regular digital camera but again, I don't want to lug it around with me. It's not that it's heavy or bulky but that's true of most of my gadgets. the more I can leave at home the happier I am.

      No, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not a technophobe.

      Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say; I wasn't calling you a technophobe but rather your complaints being more about the general nature of technophobia in society and how it relates to people who actually use the technology. Again, sorry if there was a misunderstanding there.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    12. Re:why o why? by east+coast · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you only want a really basic phone, then you can buy one without a camera. But, if you want one with other features (like WAP, which I use to check my email), it's almost always bundled with a camera.

      Yeah but that's not the issue. The issue was that the original poster wanted a phone with no crap with a good battery life. At the point where you're going to be willing to carry a phone with extra features who cares if there is a camera included? Don't use it.

      I'll tell you the first time I bought a camera phone I had no desire to have the camera but it was the best all around choice I found in a phone so I excepted that there would be a camera involved... I will admit that I was very wrong and short sighted for thinking I'd never use the camera.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    13. Re:why o why? by dfghjk · · Score: 2

      "If I want to take a photo I get out my digital SLR and a 700 euro lens, I don't think "ah, now I've got my phone, I can leave my camera at home"."

      A real photographer doesn't have to get out his camera because it's always with him. Furthermore, for convenient use, real photographers with commonly use a PnS rather than their SLRs. What you are is a photography poser, and one that needs to mention the cost of his lenses at that.

      Do you also carry around a two-way pager for your text messages since you abhor functional integration so much?

    14. Re:why o why? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      When I was in the Ueno train station, my friend and I had a problem meeting because I can't read Japanese. So, I shot a pic of where I was and in 30 seconds, he texted back, "Oh, I'm very near... there in under a minute", basically.

      Now, here, you go to SSA and IRS officers and they ban cameras for the privacy of the clients, and maybe for the security through obscurity thing. But, anyone going to those offices can be filmed from a tenant window across the street. And, once inside, one can survey WHERE the obvious cameras are (but, not the lenses hidden in fake art, raggedy trim, or the mirror domes and such), so both those arguments can go out the window.

      What some of these offices need to do is:

      -- better protect the SSN-write-down lists on clip boards
      -- not call out the name of the client who matches the name and SSN on the clipboard (so that the benefits thieves and ID thieves don't have racial demographic, age, and other info to use when heisting someone's ID)
      -- make it mandatory for all Fed/State/County/Local transactions to happen with numbers or paired strips of paper; it's OK to be "just another number" when protecting one's identiy is paramount

      As for the cameras, when in public, we generally have no right to expectation of privacy. If, however, someone is obviously following, photographing, and make uncomfortable some subject, then it's time to call the police. OTOH, if photographed from a distance, singly or in any number of groups and settings, then as long as the shooter (sic?) ultimately never uses or nor allows access to the photos for illegal purposes, then a subject probably has no grounds for argument.

      Maybe they REALLY don't want the cameras there so that the GUARDS are not being photographed... I mean... we don't want clones of the guards showing up with fake badges, uniforms, and REAL guns... or, do we?

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  10. Death of privacy by edwardpickman · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ultimately all the new technologies are putting an end to privacy. England has largely drunk the Kool Aide and put cameras on every street corner but the rest of the first world is following their example. At anytime you can be photographed or filmed without your knowledge. Even my PDA has a decent built in camera. Newer cars have black boxes and many have tracking devices. Emails are routinely monitored whether at work or by the government. When I was growing up in the 60s such a loss of privacy would have been thought to be Communist or at best facist. It really is the frog in boiling water senario. In fifty years it'll be considered a normal part of life to be under the microscope at work or in any public place. There's even talk of monitoring people in their own homes. Amazing what is being done for our own good. It is creepy to imagine that anytime you or your children may be photographed. Cameras were always pretty obvious so you had some warning. Cell phones are such a part of life no one thinks twice about them. They've already hit 2 megapixels. I have to believe they'll eventually have 5 or 6 megapixel camera phones. Ironically it's just as much the memory holding them back as the CCD chips.

    1. Re:Death of privacy by flyneye · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The advise of G.Gordon Liddy on his radio show echoes in my ear.
      "All these traffic cameras are just another violation of your privacy and more governmental control.Take a bb gun and aim for the lens.Fight the power"
      It was something to that effect.
      Occasionally I fight the power.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    2. Re:Death of privacy by Teresita · · Score: 2, Funny

      The advise of G.Gordon Liddy on his radio show echoes in my ear. 'All these traffic cameras are just another violation of your privacy and more governmental control.Take a bb gun and aim for the lens.Fight the power'"

      In other news today, policeman Adam Jones was suspended with pay yesterday pending the investigation of the shooting death of talk show host and third-rate Watergate burglar G. Gordon Liddy at the corner of 5th and Broad yesterday. "I thought he was brandishing a rifle at other motorists, Officer Jones said to reporters. "How was I supposed to know it was a Daisy rifle and he was just aiming at the traffic camera?"

    3. Re:Death of privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In other news today, policeman Adam Jones was suspended with pay yesterday pending the investigation of the shooting death of talk show host and third-rate Watergate burglar G. Gordon Liddy at the corner of 5th and Broad yesterday. "I thought he was brandishing a rifle at other motorists, Officer Jones said to reporters. "How was I supposed to know it was a Daisy rifle and he was just aiming at the traffic camera?"


      Oh I don't know, maybe use their brain? Remember that they aren't supposed to hassle anyone that hasn't committed a crime yet? No thought police please. They should be expert enough on firearms to recognize a daisy and even if they aren't or the daisy is that good a look a like they should remember the second amendment. Hopefully the officer wasn't childishly silly and lacking in good sense enough to set up a myspace.com site for a homepage. Someone like that might shoot you for an image of a water pistol in bright green on your t-shirt. If they are supicious they should go say hello to him at the most, no requesting of ID, no harassment of what he is up to just a better look at the daisy without taking it from him, unless of course they see him shoot out a traffic camera and thus destroy public property. Honestly though they should just turn their backs on him because that camera is stealing their job as a local tax collector.

      With the mind set so many seem to have I wouldn't be suprised if soylent green isn't on the menu soon. Maybe I should have linked the movie but the device linked would do the job so well, at least according to the articles on it and it runs off of hot air, which somehow seemed appropriate here.

      Guess next the federal government will be signing young people up for reporting crime with their cell phone cameras.

      Godwin, /rant off
    4. Re:Death of privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please remind me.

      When was there ever an expectation of privacy *In a public place*?
        RJG

    5. Re:Death of privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      Since the government already has the phone companies in their pocket and can wiretap you without a warrant, who says they don't also have remote access to your camera phone? Anytime they want, they can turn on your camera undetected and both listen and see what is going on near you. Why else would they put a camera in a phone?

      </tinfoil>

    6. Re:Death of privacy by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Historically Liddy ,being Ex FBI brass,is more careful than that.Being a First rate burglar,having successfully broken into DNC headquarters and bugging it,he utilized the services of a bb gun to shoot out lights that would've exposed his entry.
      Meanwhile...Teresita chokes on two cents and expires on /.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    7. Re:Death of privacy by FlyByWire63 · · Score: 1

      I think it would be rather amusing for everyone to head down to the nearest costume store and pick up a mask of your choice. Then, wear it on the streets. It would be pretty funny to see everyone wearing masks on camera, and your privacy problem is also solved.

  11. Sophie by tsa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I wrote a few stories about Sophie, see here.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  12. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Japanese phones already have pretty high quality phones on their cellphones. I believe 4.0 megapixel is not too unusual nowadays. Dont know why American companies are so slow on the uptake. Milking older technologies for everything its worth?

  13. Re:Like most things good and bad (depending on use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're also good for recording events. Not everyone carries a 20 megapixel camera. Remember the London Undergroud Bombings. One such passenger was a Moblogger and uploaded it through his email to his blog http://moblog.co.uk/view.php?id=77571/ Has anyone used the k800i? Probably the best camera-phone available to Europe and America just now. Incredible device, even better than some conventional phones. I use my camera phone to take quick pictures of those funny moment,s those drunk escapades that i'd probably forget about if i weren't taking pictures with my k750i.

  14. HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by dino213b · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think many people have a problem with the cell phone camera quality: If manufacturers bother putting a camera on a cell phone, they may as well have decent quality, right? Well, one thing that is overlooked with these cameras is the possibility of digital (panoramic and frame) stitching.

    By using OSS such as Hugin and Enblend one can increase the resolution of images, add to the field of view and basically achieve the following results:

    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/bedroom .jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/diversi ty_of_books.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/room33. jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/jsd-van .jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/car.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/car3.jp g
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/ariz.jp g

    Slightly wider shots:
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/livroom 1_corrected.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/par-ph0 _corrected.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/pan-ph1 _corrected.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/grandca ny_corrected.jpg
    - http://www.cardope.com/misc/razr_panoramic/dd_corr ected.jpg

    Please note that some of these processed images have not been color corrected with enblend - otherwise they would have turned out much better.

    1. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My cameraphone (SE K800i) can actually do this within the camera. It's pretty simplified, take a shot, line up with the edge that's shown, take second, take third but it works well, and it automagically stitches them together. And given the 3MP image sensor and zenon flash, the pictures turn out quite nice

    2. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's cool, but your place is a mess.

    3. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All that work and you only have these crappy shots to show for it? Seriously, are you legally blind?

    4. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Sure, but how many keypresses does it require to store a single picture? Making panoramas this way is an exercise in frustration. This is the big failure of cell phone cameras. Unlike normal digital cameras, they don't automatically save images to a folder. On my phone, it takes 5 "clicks" to save a picture, not counting the button I have to press to get into camera mode in the first place.

      I wish it would just save them all, instantly, so that I don't have to waste 15 seconds on each shot and miss the candid moments I wanted this "camera at a finger's reach" in the first place.

    5. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by jamesshuang · · Score: 1

      My problem with camera phones is that no matter how good the camera (such as the nokia n-series, and the sony k800 series), all camera phone shots have a distinctive blurriness/noisiness to it. It's extremely distinctive, and even with 3 mp varieties, I can easily distinguish between a camera phone shot, and a 3 mp point and shoot even.

      When I purchased my k750i, I specifically looked for a good camera on a phone. I was a bit disappointed that even in broad daylight, the camera more or less... sucked... At night, the nasty nasty lines of noise came up and basically made it unusable for anything less than broad daylight. That's one thing that these photostitching programs can't correct... the crappy lens

    6. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by juhaz · · Score: 1

      Noise is a law of physics thing, you can't avoid it by throwing more megapixels at it, and doing so while keeping everything else same actually makes it WORSE.

    7. Re:HOWTO: Improving a crummy cell camera by syousef · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes you can go to all that trouble and end up with a bunch of slightly blurry or over processed pics, or you could just use a real freaking camera and get it right. What you've posted is technically interesting but of little practical use. Who's got the time to do all that?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  15. Moves to a surveillance society by Psx29 · · Score: 1

    CCTV, phone cameras, pocket cameras, instant cameras, sattelite surveillance. We are photographed 1000s of times every day without even being aware of it (ok I pulled this number out of my ass but we are photographed a lot). I think we just have to accept that as a society we are moving to the point where we lose our privacy and it seems like you can either embrace the loss or try to fight it.

    1. Re:Moves to a surveillance society by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      Or live in a Faraday cage in your mom's basement making money for your World of Warcraft subscription through eBay.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    2. Re:Moves to a surveillance society by frdmfghtr · · Score: 1
      I think we just have to accept that as a society we are moving to the point where we lose our privacy and it seems like you can either embrace the loss or try to fight it.


      We may be caught on camera a lot, but it isn't just security cameras; there is a lot of photographing of the public by the public.

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15994151/site/newsweek /

      From the referenced link:

      Certainly one would have thought that George Allen, running to retain his Virginia senatorial seat, might have understood that directing the term "macaca" to a person of color might have had reverberations beyond that small campaign stop.

      While it's not an even trade-off, it's still a trade-off; 'we' watch 'them,' and 'they' watch 'us.' When you talk about a surveillance society, ask yourself this; there are always more camera phones out there than security cameras*, so which should cause more concern?

      I don't have an answer; it's a question to stimulate thought.

      * No, I don't have a reference but it seems to make sense.
      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    3. Re:Moves to a surveillance society by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      We are photographed 1000s of times every day without even being aware of it (ok I pulled this number out of my ass but we are photographed a lot).

      On the flip side of the coin, abuses by the police and government are more likely to be recorded if citizens are armed with cameras with the capability of sending the images off the device immediately. They may smash the phone, but the pics may already be on a server across the country.

      -b.

  16. Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    KAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!

  17. Re:Like most things good and bad (depending on use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, the variable is intent.

    Wow, that's the first time that has ever happened with technology (other than nuclear power, explosive combustion, and usage of sticks)! What a new age in which we must be entering!

    The fact that people are continually surprised is perhaps the most surprising thing about technological advances. Here's a couple of items: nuclear fusion plants will be great for electricity production but they will also be terrific for making plutonium (since you can also use the high neutron flux from fusion with external uranium assemblies), quantum computers will be great to solve lots of mathematical problems but they will defeat our bank encryption systems, and faster than light travel would be great for exploring the stars but it would make it impossible to fend off a first strike nuclear attack (hint: use your FTL drive to fly into the White House with a nuke).

    Saying that any piece of technology can be good or bad is really saying that any human with a tool can act good or bad. Technology is just a tool, it has no morality. A nuclear bomb doesn't know if it is being used as a PNE or to level a city nor does a cameraphone know whether it is being used to transfer real-time information to a 911 call center or to invade someone's privacy.

  18. Re: Yes there are Phones without! by lordsony · · Score: 1

    I agree with you on doubting the use valueness of a camera phone - however there are still phones without a camera I discovered.
    After my father's cell phone broke, I was thinking about giving him mine (SE K750i) and get a new one - of course including a higher resolution megapixel camera and a lot of other features...But after thinking about the lack of frequent use of all these feature I decided to get a Samsung SGH-X210 - cheap (75), small, elegant looking + not a lot of extra features (luxury:fm-tuner) that just get in the way..try it! Just plain text massaging & calling - that's it..

  19. Don't forget video and the 'net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  20. Re:What? by lukas84 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Megapixels is only half of the quality discussion.

    A good camera has optical zoom, a bigger ccd (a bigger ccd at the same megapixel still gives a better picture), autofocus, etc.

    Implementing this in a cell phone requires space.

  21. Holy Camera-phone! by Billosaur · · Score: 1

    And soon you too will be able to use your camera-phone to stop crime in its tracks!

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  22. Re:What? by aplusjimages · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Dont know why American companies are so slow on the uptake. Milking older technologies for everything its worth?

    Because there are so many companies with so many standards and technologies. Look at how many different audio formats there are for cell phones. It's like each handset had to come up with its own format that it would accept. Plus in America we use are cell phones for 2 things, making calls and texting. In other countries cell phones are used for everything, so the demand for richer and better features are higher.
    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  23. 911 by deviceb · · Score: 5, Informative

    Pertaining to this topic..
    911 calls in NYC will activate the camera on mobile phones so people can send video of the emergency as it happens.
    CNN usually gets images or video from peoples phones within minutes of the incident happening. The 911 people down in NYC just want the same data feed for emergencys..

    --
    Kill your TV
    1. Re:911 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what happens if you're smoking crack in the sauna with a couple of hookers and call to report something happening outside in the street?

    2. Re:911 by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      911 calls in NYC will activate the camera on mobile phones so people can send video of the emergency as it happens.

      Can they activate your camera remotely in general, or do they need your "permission?" Of course, with a black pastie over the glass nipple, they're unlikely to get any useful video unless you let them get it. The other thing is: you can't talk on a phone and aim the camera well. This seems like a nice idea but not terribly useful.

      -b.

    3. Re:911 by anothy · · Score: 1

      hrm. knowing a decent bit about phones (design, networks, &c.), i'm quite skeptical of this claim. any references you can provide?

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    4. Re:911 by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1
      Of course, with a black pastie over the glass nipple ....

      Umm, you see to have a few issues with cameras. Might I suggest a good (non Freudian) therapist?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  24. paint an image by CiXeL · · Score: 1

    what they need is the ability to stitch the picture on the fly so you can just wave the camera around and paint the image in your camera.

  25. Re:What? by statusbar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One problem with the disposable camera is that after you take an important picture, the camera can be 'confiscated' and your picture is gone too. With a camera phone, the picture can be emailed to the world before the 'bad guy' can take your phone away....

    --jeffk++

    --
    ipv6 is my vpn
  26. The best idea ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Screw megapixels, I can't wait for the first Video/Camera/Handgun/Phone...

    1. Re:The best idea ever! by Thunderstruck · · Score: 4, Funny

      Screw megapixels, I can't wait for the first Video/Camera/Handgun/Phone...

      This would be a great combination, in theory. But do you really want to put a gun into a device that you frequently hold against your head? *Oops, wrong button!*

      --
      Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
    2. Re:The best idea ever! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2, Funny
      But do you really want to put a gun into a device that you frequently hold against your head?

      There was the story of the guy who got robbed several times and thus kept a gun on his night table next to his phone. All was well until the phone rang late at night and he "answered" the wrong object.

      -b.

    3. Re:The best idea ever! by Blew · · Score: 1

      Screw megapixels, I can't wait for the first Video/Camera/Handgun/Phone...

      This would be a great combination, in theory. But do you really want to put a gun into a device that you frequently hold against your head? *Oops, wrong button!*

      Like this one:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94667nMd4Ls

    4. Re:The best idea ever! by Devv · · Score: 1

      Suddenly the word "Typo" get more respect if you're holding the phone pointed at your stomach while writing an email.

      --
      +1 Agree -1 Disagree
    5. Re:The best idea ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the rate that my camera takes pictures of the inside of my pants pocket, I would have no testicles left.

    6. Re:The best idea ever! by Garabito · · Score: 2, Funny

      It will give a new meaning to "point and shoot camera"

  27. Tons of phones without cameras... quit complaining by Animaether · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are tons of phones without cameras. There is absolutely *no* problem whatsoever getting a phone that doesn't have a camera. Every time an article about cellphones comes up somebody cries out "Can't I just have a phone? One without a camera???", and every time the basic answers is that you damn well can.

    Now the problem is that these people aren't asking if they can have a phone without a camera. And they know it. They want a phone that has WiFi, stereo bluetooth, a big high quality color screen, 3G, can play back every media file under the sun and better yet they can put custom software on and isn't locked to any provider... but not a camera. And that is where you do end up getting into "good luck, mate" territory.

    Seriously - walk into a store, look on the web, check out office supplies stores (guess what - they sell cell phones that are literally no-frills so that employees can have a cheap company phone).. there are plenty of cell phones without a camera. And if that is their only argument, then they shouldn't complain that it is not a very fashionable design or that it only has a fixed-matrix black-and-white LCD display and they can't download the latest music onto it let alone watch that StarGate SG-1 they recorded to Ogg Theora.

  28. Degredation of Standards by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One thing the camera phone has accomplished is a general 'dumbing down' of peoples sence of quality of photos, which has nearly killed the film camera industry.

    They get used to poor quality since its *everywhere*, and accept it as 'good enough' since its more convenient..

    ya, its a rant.. so sue me :)

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Degredation of Standards by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

      That's nothing new, the same has been true of Polaroids for ages.

    2. Re:Degredation of Standards by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      which has nearly killed the film camera industry.

      OTOH, used film cameras are *cheap* now. I have a couple and got a few dozen rolls of film from a former boss who decided to go all digital last year. I'm set for a loooooong time :/

      -b.

    3. Re:Degredation of Standards by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

      And this will be great for people like me. They see the shitty quality pictures of these phones and think its good enough. Then when some shmo like me comes a long with his nikon D70 DSLR and takes shitty pictures of them at 6mp they will think he is a photographing god and pay him for them.

      No shit, this has already happened at my work place. I work for a real estate company where the agents usually take pictures of the house with disposible cameras or cheap digital cameras. Someone I work with bough himself a D50 and next week was out taking pictures for these people for 200 bucks a pop.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    4. Re:Degredation of Standards by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 1

      As suggested on APUG (kind of an anti-slashdot; "news for nerds, stuff that matters, as long as it's not digital"), because of people dumping their film gear you can now afford to accesorize yourself with a half a dozen Nikon SLRs, and go as Dennis Hopper from _Apocalypse Now_.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
  29. Death of public spaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Ultimately all the new technologies are putting an end to privacy."

    That must be why they call them "public" spaces then.

  30. Wildfires by gmuslera · · Score: 1
    In my country, last week, there were several wildfires in several places in our coast. The culprit, caught this week, alleged that wanted to take photos of them with his cellphone (small newspaper about it in spanish).

    Is not just "adding a camera to a cellphone" what is doing the big changes. Is the availability (a good percent of people, depending on where, have cellphones, a good percent of them have cameras, and even some of them can film), and to have internet (with places where to easily publish photos/videos be to general public or just to send by mail) as something to enhance use. Pure digital cameras were making social changes already, but cellphones with cameras are putting them really everywhere and to everyone.

  31. Internet Martyr (TM) by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'm sorry (and will probably get modded down as a troll) this is one invention I could certainly do without.

    The unfortunate difference between an Internet martyr and a real martyr is that the real martyrs end up dead. Although, maybe Internet martyrs are just real ones posting from beyond the grave.

  32. Re:What? by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually I'd say that's more Insightful than Funny. While I don't need 70% of the functionality on most modern handsets (phonecalls & texts, anything else is a waste) - a decent bloody camera in the same device (IE. a replacement for a decent point-n-click digicam, I'm not talking SLRs here) is something I would consider using.

  33. Wired by UnRDJ · · Score: 2, Funny

    'With this kind of device,' Kahn told Wired, 'you're going to see the best and the worst of things.'" Wired then replied: KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHNNN!!!!! Eat your heart out mods.
    1. Re:Wired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting that he was French originally and his line hints of another line "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times". Anybody's neck itching?

  34. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You shouldn't buy the phone: you buy the service and THEN see what phones they have.

    The other thing is that I had to buy a phone with a camera because, at the time, Verizon (#1 Consumer Reports) didn't offer a basic phone that showed the phone number of the caller without having to answer. With the phone I have, I just look at the cover and see who's calling. The basic phones you mention, you have to open it up. I'd give you a link, but their store site (Verizonwireless) is down for maintenance today.

  35. Government Oppression by MrSteveSD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To me the greatest thing that camera phones (and cheap digital cameras in general) bring is a possible curb on government oppression. Around the world in both totalitarian regimes and democracies, people gather to protest about various government actions and decisions. In totalitarian regimes and sadly also in our democracies, these protests are often met with grossly excessive force from riot police. In democracies the police often wait until the media finish and leave before making their move on the protesters.

    However, now that so many people have camera phones (even in non-democracies), it's much harder to get away with such oppression. All it takes is for one person to film a police officer beating an unarmed man cowering on the ground and it will be around the world very quickly.

    I think this prevalence of cheap and portable video-capable devices has lead to a change of tactics in some countries. In an environment where everything the police do is being recorded on video, governments are seeking to avoid confrontation altogether. It has become increasingly popular to either herd protesters into "Free Speech Zones" (in the US) or just effectively ban protests altogether as is the case in the UK, for half a mile or so around parliament square.

    In case you're wondering, I've never actually been on a protest myself. Like most people I am either too lazy or too scared of being clubbed by Police to attend (which is exactly the attitude governments like).

    1. Re:Government Oppression by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not dissimilar to what happened with Saddam hussein.

      The plan was to release a nice clean film of a dignified hanging. The moment the cameras were off they changed tack completely.
      Luckily someone had a camera phone.

      In any sizable protest now the majority will have camera phones - which means the scenario you describe of waiting until the media is out of the way isn't going to happen. Take film, email it from the phone, and keep out of the way of the police whilst it's emailing (which isn't long at 3G speeds). If you get arrested and they 'accidentally' step on the phone it's too late.

    2. Re:Government Oppression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Germany recent legislation has made it legal for law enforcement to jam phone networks in the areas where a demonstration is taking place. Greetings from the country that brought you WW2.

    3. Re:Government Oppression by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Absolutely! This is an extension of what Jello Biafra refers to as the "Camcorder Truth Jihad" and is exemplified by groups such as The Video Activist Network. The ubiquity of camera phones can only help this spread.

      If anyone doubts the power of individuals with cameras, they could just ask George Allen or Micheal Richards for their opinions.

    4. Re:Government Oppression by Olaf+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, government can simply make videoing police activities illegal, then use its access to cellphone company records to determine who made the video.

      --
      slashdottagsshorterthanhaikunewartform
  36. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by EinZweiDrei · · Score: 5, Funny
    (guess what - they sell cell phones that are literally no-frills so that employees can have a cheap company phone)
    And about time, mes sieurs! I'm tired of all those literally-frilled phones getting caught on my coatsleeves right in the middle of a rousing bout of lawn-tennis!

    --
    Perhaps life really is full of possibilities.
  37. Couldn't agree more! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for speaking the truth that has been absent from all discussions of cell phone cameras - THEY SUCK!

    It doesn't matter what resolution they boast, how big a memory card you can install, or whether it can even record video - the point is that these cameras have horrible quality lenses and tiny, low quality sensors that generate terrible photos in the best of circumstances (bright daylight, high contrast subject posing motionless for the picture), and are completely useless in less than bright conditions and/or with subjects that are moving or which require split second timing to capture.

    I agree that they should be eliminated altogether from cell phones until and unless they start to approach the level of performance we had in quality compact digital cameras seven years ago. (The 2 megapixel pocket camera I owned in 2000 took infinitely better photos that any 5 megapixel cellphone camera today.)

  38. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by juhaz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Now the problem is that these people aren't asking if they can have a phone without a camera. And they know it. They want a phone that has WiFi, stereo bluetooth, a big high quality color screen, 3G, can play back every media file under the sun and better yet they can put custom software on and isn't locked to any provider... but not a camera. And that is where you do end up getting into "good luck, mate" territory.

    So they're not just asking for a phone, they're asking for a good phone. Bastards. Should be hanged.

    Fortunately, there is at least one such device. http://www.nokia.com/A4145124

  39. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then they shouldn't complain that it is not a very fashionable design or that it only has a fixed-matrix black-and-white LCD display and they can't download the latest music onto it let alone watch that StarGate SG-1 they recorded to Ogg Theora.

    Yeah? Well, I want a phone that can do all that, but the company policy is no cameras, so they don't get my big bucks. Instead I have a cheap candybar that I can't even set the imperial march as the ringtone for when my boss calls.

  40. I'll complain as much as I damn want by nwbvt · · Score: 1

    That would be why he said it is difficult to get a cell phone without a camera, not impossible. I have yet to hear anyone argue there are no cell phones without cameras who was not obviously exaggerating. But they are few in number, they often have to be specially ordered (last time I went to Best Buy all their phones had cameras), and often lack features which people who actually work for a living (and cannot take a camera in to the office) might want. That is what people are complaining about.

    --
    Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    1. Re:I'll complain as much as I damn want by powerpants · · Score: 1
      I have yet to hear anyone argue there are no cell phones without cameras who was not obviously exaggerating.
      Congratulations! You've won today's prize for best quadruple negative.
    2. Re:I'll complain as much as I damn want by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      Its not a double negative (or triple, or quadruple) if the negatives are in different clauses. And it cannot be "today's" prize if the post you were referring to was posted yesterday.

      Don't play grammar Nazi if you are not prepared to be hit back.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    3. Re:I'll complain as much as I damn want by powerpants · · Score: 1

      I wasn't playing grammar Nazi, I was paying homage. I guess I forgot the :)

  41. Why the need to video tape a birth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure why people have this need to video tape everything. Just experience it in the moment instead of trying to get that one great camera angle.

    Besides I'm not sure who wants to see this later on. Him? Why? His wife? Why? The kid? Why?

    1. Re:Why the need to video tape a birth? by Xaria · · Score: 1

      I videoed my son's birth, and in a few week's time I'll record the birth of my next child. I have watched it several times. It's a magic moment for those who were there. It's a way of sharing the experience (edited for my privacy) with those who would have *liked* to be there. And who knows, maybe one day my son WOULD like to see it.

      We weren't worried about the camera angle. We set the camcorder up on a tripod in the corner of the delivery suite and ignored it. Sure, it's not the best footage in the world, but we got to be immersed in the moment AND have that moment recorded. This is off-topic though, since I wouldn't do that with a mobile phone. Maybe ten minutes AFTER the birth, but most delivery suites have a "no mobiles" rule anyway in case they disrupt the equipment in the special care nursery which is usually next door.

      Now where's that DVD ... I think I might watch it again!

    2. Re:Why the need to video tape a birth? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      The hospital where my wife's OB belongs allowed (IIRC) up to 5 guests to be present during delivery. Both our reactions upon hearing that were, "Who the hell would want 5 guests in the delivery room?"

      I guess the answer is Xaria (630117). :)

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  42. Even without camera phones... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    ...The dramatic reduction in the size of digital still cameras and MiniDV camcorders will still change the world anyway. The ability to download still images and video to a desktop or laptop computer, process the data, and upload it to the Internet has turned citizens into de facto journalists. In fact, many pundits now say if we had modern digital cameras and digital camcorders back in 1963, instead of having only one clear film of the assassination of President Kennedy we would end up with video and still images of that unfortunate tragedy from multiple viewpoints.

    1. Re:Even without camera phones... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      clear? When the fuck did that grainy and in-conclusive film ever become clear? That particular film has fostered more doubt and conspiracy theories than it laid to rest. At least with society at large running around with cell-cameras, we'd THEN have alternate pictures of that bastard with the umbrella shooting JFK (because we know that LHO was a piss-poor shot with a piss-poor rifle...).

    2. Re:Even without camera phones... by ShatteredGlass · · Score: 1
      In fact, many pundits now say if we had modern digital cameras and digital camcorders back in 1963, instead of having only one clear film of the assassination of President Kennedy we would end up with video and still images of that unfortunate tragedy from multiple viewpoints.

      Uhh no shit? That's probably the most obvious statement in the world.

  43. Check out corporate phones by ghoul · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most high end phones used by serious people like blackberries etc have a NC model standing for no camera. On a related note the company I work for also bans camera phones but you can get a camera phone pass if you are at a certain job level. It has become a kind of status item. The untrusted masses have just ID cards. The intemediate have a camera phone pass , the executives have property passes which let them them take laptops in and out and the IT guy has a Gold pass which lets him move multi-million dollar servers in and out. Shows to go who on top :)

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  44. Re:What? by D4MO · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I took this photo with my phone last week as I walked to work. Nokia N80, 3mp. The original picture is bigger and sharper than the large one on flickr. As good as most pocket shooters, imho. Night time shots aren't great though.

    --

    Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
  45. More like... by jpellino · · Score: 1

    "How camera phones changed a select number of people to make them think that anyone gives a wet slap about what they see in the course of a day."

    Most of the world is mostly the same.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  46. Re:What? by bendodge · · Score: 0

    Maybe it's time for a one pixel camera.

    --
    The government can't save you.
  47. Kahn? How about Eastman? by nixkuroi · · Score: 1

    'With this kind of device,' Kahn told Wired, 'you're going to see the best and the worst of things.'" I think George Eastman (inventor of the camera) might have beaten Kahn to this quote. This statement is a little short of profound :) Now if Kahn had said "you're going to see the best and worst of upskirt porn, drunkass celebrities and rednecks fighting", he would have said a mouthful.

  48. Degredation of Holes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "One thing the camera phone has accomplished is a general 'dumbing down' of peoples sence of quality of photos, which has nearly killed the film camera industry."

    Apparently it hasn't killed the "analog hole" industry.

  49. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Garabito · · Score: 1

    Most clamshell/flip cell phones can be configured not to answer the call when the user opens it to see who's calling.

  50. I definitely agree. by Explo · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm personally pretty sick and tired of the use of megapixels as indicator for the quality of digital cameras and cameraphones. I pretty much bet that my older P&S digical camera (Canon Powershot G3) absolutely trounces any 4-megapixel camera phones in image quality, despite being released in 2002. It's even worse than the use of mega/gigahertzes and MIPSes for computer performance; the optics, size of individual photosites and other factors just have so much impact for image quality that it's downright silly to use a single figure to evaluate the image quality.

    The above does not mean that I'd want phones with camera to disappear from the face of Earth; if the image quality is sufficient for somebodys needs, it's fine for me. I'd just like people to have some more informed bases for comparisons.

    --
    Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
  51. Reasons for a camera phone by DesertBlade · · Score: 1

    Although Camera Phones don't have the best quality there are useful and convenient. I don't always carry my camera but usually have my phone

    Examples:
    I am at my sons Lacrosse game and I forgot my camera at home
    Car accident, need some pictures of the accident scene
    Those crazy moments when I wished I had a camera
    You camera battery dies and you really want a picture.
    The ability to take a picture and send to anyone with out a PC
    ETC

    --
    Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
  52. Pics or it didn't happen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pics or it didn't happen.

  53. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Abnormal+Coward · · Score: 1

    You can also get a E50 with no camera. However, it doesn't have 3G.

  54. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by toddestan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The thing is, there are people who would like a phone with other high end features, but can't have or don't want a camera phone. Most, if not all of the no-camera phones are very basic phones that are pretty stripped down. It would be trying to find a motherboard for a computer without integrated Firewire. There are plenty of boards out there that lack it, but try to find one with high end features like SATA Raid, gigabit eithernet, and PCI Express, but no Firewire.

  55. Cell Phones + YouTube = God Bless Technology by joeytsai · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    For a gadget loving crowd, there's a surprising amount of camera phone haters. Weird.

    Anyway, I love them. After last year's incident with Michael Richards, I realized that the ability for anybody to capture events and then distribute them has pretty profound implications. If that incident had happened just a few years ago, it would've been far from the frontpage, rapidly forgotten. But because people were able to see it themselves they were able to respond to the situation as if they were present. And people reacted accordingly.

    Sure, sometimes things can be put out of context, or are simply trivial, like seeing Britney's cash-and-prizes. But other times, it can highlight an important event, like the UCLA taser scandal or Saddam's hanging. And all these examples are just what happened last year, off the top of my head.

    As more content is produced by the masses, I'd expect a lot more interesting stories ahead. I mean, these "Time Person of The Year" awards don't come easy.

    --
    http://www.talknerdy.org
  56. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Animaether · · Score: 1
    So they're not just asking for a phone, they're asking for a good phone. Bastards. Should be hanged

    Hanged? No. Fully realize that they're going to have limited choice? Hell yes - and yes, there are actually choices out there as you point out "Good luck, mate" doesn't mean they don't exist :)

    Heck, you can get a PocketPC Phone edition equal in every way to the HTC Wizard - but without the camera:
    The WIZA-110 is the least common HTC Wizard model. The reason for this may be found in the fact that it has no camera. Other than that, it is the same as the WIZA-100. It can be found customized and branded by at least one company:

    Cingular: 8100

    http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename= HTC_Wizard_(alternative)
  57. Keeping authorities honest by finkployd · · Score: 1

    Authorities (and by that I mean law enforcement primarily) always likes to to throw cameras on the citizens. Public places, private places, etc. Constant surveillance makes it much easier to catch criminals, no doubt. We can debate the merits of this and whether or not it is worth the trade off till the cows come home.

    The camera phone however, has turned the tables a bit. Now those authorities are finding that they are being watched and recorded as well. Historically, a corrupt or abusive cop has little problem having his story believed over that of the evil criminal. Recently we have seen a near explosion of police abusing their power and assaulting people. Cops beating up a guy in Pittsburgh no long ago, the UCLA campus police tazering a mouthy student multiple times (and threating to tazer bystanders who simply asked for badge numbers), etc. Once these are up on youtube, suddenly action is taken against the police where it would ordinarily have been ignored, laughed off, or denied.

    This is good for everyone, the more corrupt and abusive police kicked off the force, the better for citizens and police alike. For any authority's position to work, they need trust. Right now there is a bit of a trust problem between the police and general public and only by taking care of the problem officers will that ever change.

    Finkployd

  58. Damn Illegal Aliens... always stealing jobs by sheldon · · Score: 1

    According to Wikipedia, Phillipe Kahn entered the US on a tourist visa, setup Borland International shortly there after and didn't receive a Green Card until 1986, 4 years later.

  59. How about product reviews? by Barbarian · · Score: 2

    This sounds like a service google could run--you snap a pic of the barcode, and your phone goes to a site where you read reviews about how great the product is/how much it sucks.

  60. Re:What? by juhaz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Do you mean this? (flickr stores the original if you upload it, even though they don't want to show it if you don't have a pro account).

    It's larger alright. Sharper? Wouldn't say so, IMHO, it's much better at medium and large, the full resolution really brings out the flaws.
    Purple fringing, almost all detail eaten by heavy noise reduction (look at the smaller tree branches, there's nothing but blur), badly overexposed sky. And that's in nigh perfect conditions.

    It's pretty good for a phone picture, maybe it's on-par with cheapo pocket shooters, but it's nowhere near the good ones.

  61. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want a tiny phone without a camera. I want the Zoolander phone!

  62. Re:911 (I call Bullshit!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    911 calls in NYC will activate the camera on mobile phones so people can send video of the emergency as it happens.

    Wow!!! Score:4, Interesting? Some mods actually fell for this? Nice work, deviceb. Got any other tall tales for us?

  63. Re:What? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Funny

    While this is true, what we REALLY need is further integration. The GUN-cameraphone would solve a ton of problems. We'd probably even have direct democracy, finally.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  64. stupidity with camera when driving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    after long road works and bad traffic, driving at a walking pace, there was an accident on the other side of the road. on impulse, I took a photo; was spotted by a traffic cop; now I'm facing a charge of driving without care/attention... probably will result in a fine of up to US$1000 or GBP500. This is the downside of always-with-you photography equipment and impulse picture taking, there are times it is quite ill advised.

  65. Re:Tons of phones without cameras... quit complain by frenetic_wimp · · Score: 2, Informative
    Now the problem is that these people aren't asking if they can have a phone without a camera. And they know it. They want a phone that has WiFi, stereo bluetooth, a big high quality color screen, 3G, can play back every media file under the sun and better yet they can put custom software on and isn't locked to any provider... but not a camera. And that is where you do end up getting into "good luck, mate" territory.
    Actually, you're wrong. Some phone makers offer exactly this, presumably for companies with no-camera-phones-policies (although dropping the crappy little camera gets you some extra space too). For example, the Nokia E62 - Symbian Series 60 v3 OS, WiFi, 3G, office suite, the works - and no camera.
    --
    get a Free BSD!
  66. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    That would make "firing off an email" a lot more interesting....

  67. Man... by Dave+Parrish · · Score: 1

    I miss the days when phones were devices used to talk to people. And for that matter, I miss when video game consoles were used to play video games (Sony trying to shove every feature they possibly can down our throats) and search engines were search engines (Google usurping every industry they possibly can).

  68. Re:What? by cibyr · · Score: 1

    And if you don't like nokia, sony ericsson make the k800i which is pretty much the same. The flash is a bit better than the one one the N73 but the thumbstick pisses me off. Can't force the flash on, it can't really cope with light behind the subject, and the battery is only good for two days when you're on a 3G network but other than that it's a good phone :)

    --
    It's not exactly rocket surgery.
  69. Amazing Cameraphone by hannahsophia · · Score: 0

    One of the best inventions in the last ten years. Phone and camera really comes hand in hand. Now comes the 5Megapixel N95 Nokia phone. http://www.treo700.org/

  70. Re:What? by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

    Go for a Sharp then- pretty everything you're asking for (9xx series- 910SH has 5MP sensor with 3x optical zoom and autofocus, 904SH has image stabilization, 3.2MP sensor, 2x optical zoom and autofocus, the 903SH has the same without image stabilization, and the 902SH is trailing behind with all the features of the 903SH but with a 2MP sensor). They are pretty big, though.

    --
    OSx86 FTW
  71. Re:What? by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

    I have a 4-year old Casio exilim 2.0 megapixel that also plays mp3s. The photos are excellent (for a 4 year old camera), and it is a very basic mp3 player that plays with some hiccups. I can say you that this is much better than the other way around! I use the mp3 player for my car every now and then, and can get pics that are good enough to print. I use the SD card to put any amount of mp3s or photos on the little thing, it's very flexible and I only have to carry around one small device. Shame they don't make this combination anymore.

    --
    molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  72. The omnipresence is the key. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    The quality is less important than its omnipresence.

    I used to keep a single-use 35mm camera in my car. Those things are not known for taking quality pictures, least of all when they've been alternately baked and frozen in a car for a few seasons. However, this didn't really bother me, because I could imagine times when just having any camera at all, regardless of how bad the pictures or how washed-out the colors would be, would be a Good Thing.

    That's the role I see cellphone cameras filling. I don't think they're really going to cut into the standalone camera market (at least, not more than disposables cut into the film-based standalone camera market), but I can see them totally taking up the disposable-camera one.

    The benefit of such an omnipresent technology isn't that people will be able to not bring regular cameras where they did before, but that they'll be able to take photos of events where they traditionally have not brought bigger cameras.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  73. Must be a U.K. thing by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    That's rather bizarre.

    I can think of some special circumstances here in the U.S. where you wouldn't be allowed to take pictures (privately owned clubs or beaches could prohibit photography, although I think only nudist/naturist ones probably would bother), but in general any place in public is fair game. And it's more or less expected that any place where you have parents and children, there are going to be (lots and lots of) photos taken.

    That's not to say that you can use photos of random people taken in public places for commercial purposes, because then you get into their control over the use of their "image," but the photography per se is protected.

    There are certainly situations which are legal, but might cause you to be harassed by the police -- standing on the sidewalk outside an elementary school and photographing the children, when it was clear you weren't a parent might draw unwelcome attention, but if it went to court you'd probably be vindicated.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Must be a U.K. thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here I thought the UK was the country with one CCTV camera for every 14 people.

      I guess once they've taken away all the guns, there's no telling what crazy thing they'll go after next.

  74. JitterBug? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    I recently saw an ad in US News & World Reports that was for a very basic, phone-only cellphone, just like the kind that I hear people begging for all the time on Slashdot.

    It looked like they were going for the older demographic, because of the emphasis on large print and big keys, but it seemed like something that would appeal to anyone who wanted a very simple phone (but not as dumbed-down as the one-button children's cellphones).

    It's apparently called the Jitterbug, and is made by Samsung. It seems to be marketed by a network or virtual network called "Greatcall," but perhaps it's possible to buy the phone elsewhere and use it on a different network. I assume the plans that they're pushing with it are similarly basic.

    What would be nice would be if you could get it as an unlocked GSM phone, and then pop in a T-Mobile SIM (last time I checked, TMobile had the least-expensive voice-only plans, in cost per minute).

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  75. Re:What? by Lifthrasir · · Score: 1

    It should be called the SLRSLR - Single Lens Reflex Self Loading Rifle.

    --
    No beer, no TV make Lifthrasir something something
  76. Is it in place of the SIM slot? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    I looked at his newly acquired red Razor, and it has so much crap on it that apparently the only place they could find for the SD card was under the battery.

    It's there because they're probably putting it in place of the SIM card slot. If the phone is the one I'm thinking of, it's from Sprint, which being a CDMA network doesn't use SIMs. So rather than just leave a nonfunctional slot there, under the battery, they turned it into a MicroSD/TransFlash card slot for loading additional music.

    I think it's a case of the card being shoehorned into a design that really wasn't made for it, thus you end up with it in a very strange place. The design of the Razr, externally at least, hasn't changed much from its very first version.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  77. Re:What? by Turadg · · Score: 1
    the camera can be 'confiscated' and your picture is gone too. With a camera phone, the picture can be emailed to the world before the 'bad guy' can take your phone away....

    That observation was the impetus behind a research project called Video 911. It's different from the new move in New York (which is a great advance) in that it is intended to operate even as a deterrent. When you launch the app on the phone it begins transmitting video and sound to a call center. The user holds a button on the phone to signal that they still have control. When they release the button, they have a short window to type in a code to neutralize the recording. Otherwise it is inferred that they have lost control and the video and GPS data are passed on to an operator who decides whether to dispatch police.

    The deterrence would derive from the assailant knowing that their image, voice and actions have already been transmitted to an evidence store. More details are in the paper and presentation.

  78. UFOs by bobcote · · Score: 1

    The biggest result of the camera phone? UFO sightings haved dropped dramatically.

    Seriously though, where can I get a good phone without a camera?