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British Cops Hack Into Government Computers
CmdrGravy writes "The British Police have hacked into Government computers as part of the on-going 'cash for peerages' investigation. They've uncovered evidence which has, so far, led to one arrest and charge of perverting the course of justice for a leading Labour party figure. This charge carries a potential life sentence. The British police have the power to hack into computer systems as part of an investigation. On previous occasions they have said they did not believe the government was providing them with the information they had been asking for and had warned that they would seek other methods to gather evidence. The police won't say what tools they have used. From the article: 'The investigators did not have to notify No 10 if they were "hacking" into its system. One legal expert said: "In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorization of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."'"
So now it's the government hacking into itself, not just /.ers...
have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum?
I hope they get Ruth Turner and Tony Blair on this, should be good practice for them before they face the a tribunal over Iraq.
Nothing like hot state-on-state action, eh?
So, I know next to nothing about legal systems outside of the USA. In the US the police would need a warrent (I am goign with the bassis of our laws, not the mockery that is today).
Is the approval that the british cops gained:
"In some cases, a senior officer can give permission. In other cases, you might need the authorisation of an independent commissioner, who is usually a retired judge appointed by the Home Office."
The same basic idea? Or is this a change, or what not. Basicly can some one more familiar with the british legal system explain this?
thanks.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
I wonder who the British police hired to do this, according to the article they used "computer experts" to do the job.
But now that these "computer experts" have done this once with police blessing, had a nice look at the systems I wouldn't wonder if they could do it again without the blessing or knowledge of the police.
From the article it doesn't look like the sys-admins at Downing Street have been all that involved in this, I sure hope they have now been notified of how this was done and whatever way was used to get into the systems have been closed.
One could suspect that with the police having known these/this "computer expert(s)" it might be an indication that it wasn't a white hat they got hold of, but really that is just speculation, it might also have been a white hat person.
Anyhow I know nothing but what it says in TFA, which really isn't a lot, but for the sake of british security I sure hope this has been done in a sensible way.
Yeah, how dare someone be able to get a peerage because of wealth. Everyone knows that's not how it's supposed to work. If this were to continue, well ... completely undeserving people could get one!
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Is there a source for the claim that charges were made, given that the article says the exact opposite?
Here's what I don't get: this is the British police, not some elite hacking group. They are probably using pretty basic hacking methods to hack into government computers. If this is the case, why aren't the computers more secure to begin with? If the police can do it, I'll bet your kid's lunch money that your teenage neighbor can as well. To me, the lack of adequate security is a far more significant embarrassment than the hacking itself.
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
Whilst it's good that Goverment bodies get the same level of investigation as anyone else would, I believe it to be a bit of a 'flogging a dead horse' situation. Blair is leaving this year, and I very much doubt he'd be under the hammer in this sitation (he's already been interviewed and released). Indeed it is important to catch those that are guilty, but I don't feel it is going to damage Labour any more than they already are.
I do find it quite hypocritical that the British Government have such power as to be able to break into any system in the name of investigation...
ilovegeorgebush
Nobody has been charged as a result of this investigation. The official who was arrested was questioned on suspicion of perverting the course of justice and was later released.
Must end have run out of cliches.
That doesn't sound like much fun.
Actually, I shouldn't be shocked. They've lied about funding, the health service, taxes and just about everything else... they'd be the first to try and protect their own livelihoods when it came to the crunch.
Is it just me, or is my country going to the dogs? Or is it just that there is no such thing as an honest politician?
When did I realise I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realised I was talking to myself.
Eclipse PDE and Me
I'm guessing that the "hacking" that is being described is actually a standard analysis of the hard drive after the computer has been taken by the police as evidence. There's nothing unusual in this at all. They'll be looking for deleted files and examining the disk on a sector by sector basis. The Government (or a stupid journalist) is defining this as "Hacking" when in fact it's what the police do with all seized computers.
Training monkeys for world domination since 1439
. . . for making me blow hot coffee out of my nose and all over my keyboard.
Seriously - that was funny.
What?
If they cry foul they will be hoist by their own "the innocent have nothing to fear" petard. A taste of their own medicine.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
I believe that for "hack" you should read "looked at the backups of the Exchange servers".
One aspect no-one has commented on, I'd have assumed that the Security Service would be closely monitoring the Number 10 ISP etc. to look for hostile intrusions... Why didn't they catch this?
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
I am very insulted by any insinuation that my recent elevation to the offices of Duke of Kent, Archbishop of Canterbury, and Lord High Admiral have anything to do with gifts paid to government officials. I assure you, they all came about because of merit.
with these kinds of powers.... nor more stonewalling from any parties in government. I mean, so long as they are government and as such they have checks and balances and thus have jurusdiction over each other and in special circumstances if they suspect sonewalling or lack or cooperation they could invoke these powers... imagine corruption in government going down (or in the least be exposed)...
But given that the laws here are different and that agencies most of the time -except for egregious offences- kind of don't see, ask or tell.
Imagine the juicy bits the executive might have (altho I susoect the legislative to have much more but not as tantalizing......
all the passwords were "NigellaDoMe"
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Yeah, they were held up for a moment when none of his kids' birthdays was the password, but then they realized it was his anniversary in reverse.
Police used computer experts...
That the escalation in the UK's police powers has gone too far.
NO ID: BEING FREE MEANS NOT HAVING TO PROVE IT
8|_| 7]-[3% $|_||23 45 |-|311 907 1337 $|!11-/_
So, in England there's none of that annoying 'Probable Cause' and 'Warrants' rubbish?
It's nice to see rights being stomped on in another country for a change.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
If this were to continue, well ... completely undeserving people could get one!
At least the British Upper House is funny...Canada's is sad. As far as I can tell, in Canada not only to "completely undeserving people" get senate appointments from time to time, as far as I can tell it wouldn't even be illegal for someone to buy a seat in the senate from the PM. At the very least the ability to use old-school hereditary peers in Britian for political manipulation is a BIT limited. Canada has never had hereditary peers in our upper house and many (most?) of them are still not deserving.
I wasn't aware of this "cash for peerage" scandal until I saw this story. The parallels between the old Liberal government' situation in Canada and the current Labour gov't in Britain are intriguing (both seem scandal-plagued and both have law enforcement digging around in their affairs). IIRC I think the RCMP still need a warrant to perform such searches though.
My sources tell me that, as usual, the most serious charges are related to secondary offenses.
In the present case what is terrifying Government Ministers and senior figures in New Labour is that they may be charged with anti competitive behaviour and market manipulation - distorting the free market in peerages and other honours, and colluding with other honours suppliers. If the police start to suspect something like this has gone on, the Office of Fair Trading and the European Commission could get involved, and you know that when the Competition Directorate moves, terror strikes.
It is truly tragic. Britain was always famous around the world as the country that operated the most open and transparent market for honours of all sorts. Its a great pity it has come to this.
What about "you only gave us two folders, both with one page saying "This page left intentionally blank"?
OK, that was extreme, but the ammount of paperwork done is excessive. EVERYONE knows that. When the request turned up a small ammount of information, they said "we have a good idea that this is not all the evidence". And it seems they were right.
At least not without a proper warrant.
Somebody please tell me that it was this government that gave them the power to do this.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
From the article: 'The investigators did not have to notify No 10 if they were "hacking" into its system
Just in case everyone is wondering what "No. 10" refers to - No. 10 is 10 Downing Street, the British Equiv to the White House... http://www.number10.gov.uk/
No. 10 is not 3 higher than 007, or any single person, or secret agent, or anything else.
Lindsay Blanton
RadioReference.com
Well they could have taken a walk down to the DC and plugged directly into whatever server was being used. However British Computer Law is pretty indepth, and for anyone interested have a read: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_1990001 8_en_2.htm#mdiv1
"Saving for certain law enforcement powers.
10. Section 1(1) above has effect without prejudice to the operation--
(a) in England and Wales of any enactment relating to powers of inspection, search or seizure; and
(b) in Scotland of any enactment or rule of law relating to powers of examination, search or seizure."
...when I read "The investigators did not have to notify No 10..." was the The Prisoner... I am still wondering, with a name like that, if I am the only one watching entirely too much television...
If even large accounting firms are bright enough to have some skills in 'forensic accounting' and so on, I'd be surprised if the whole UK police force didn't employ at least someone with hacking skills. The interesting ethical modifier is the get-out-of-jail card they have in using them. If they get caught on official business they just wave the badge and go their way. Likewise, they likely see its most distasteful sides. I wonder what affect this would have on their attitudes to hacking in their personal life?
To give a corresponding example, a friend of the family is a highway patrol officer here in Australia: he drives some very highly tuned and customized cars that have little trouble catching almost anything that's legal to drive here. Sometimes the people he catches imagine that he's a fellow rev-head, and want to discuss the mechanics of his car. This is a mistake, as he has simply no interest in speeding, and absolutely no patience with it. On the one hand, because he can speed with impunity, and does so all the time, there's no thrill factor to it, apart from the physical sensation. Secondly, the more he has to walk around crash scenes picking up body parts and trying to figure out which bags to put them in, the slower and slower his off-duty driving becomes.
Is there a corresponding effect in 'white hat' hacking? Does exposure to real hacker crime, combined with hacking as a job, actually result in a decreased interest in hacking in private life?
She was in fact released without charge.
Sheeeeesh.
At least read the article before posting it.
In Britain, "Police hacking into government servers" means that a formal request was made to some civil servant who promptly went and retreived the spare admin authentication details from an unmarked brown file at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet that is sitting next to the boiler in the basement underneath the House of Commons, and then read out the passwords over the phone to a Police secratary.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face - Ben Williams
I'm sure it involved a large quantity of Xena tapes and Hot Pockets...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'd bet all the money to my name the computer they hacked was running Windoze.
What happens when they try to comprimise a hacker's system in search of evidence. I suspect that they would be unable to, and find that all the previously gathered evidence stored on their computer was destroyed while the slept. Why would they bother w/ this shit, plus, were this in the U.S.A., this would certainly be illegal w/o a warrant, and if they had a warrant, couldn't they just sieze the computer? Probably would less work if the suspect was even slightly computer apt.
Yeah, did you see that shit leaking out of her cooch? It was disgusting...I couldn't look at porn for a week!
You can also see her C-section scar....nasty, but at least you know she's loose for reasons that aren't a result of giving birth.
Do you think she went commando so she could steal some panties from wherever she bought them, by wearing them out the door?
:(){
There should be no need to hack
I think that the RIP act alows the police to demand your password.
If you do not provide this information the sentance is a long term in gaol.
Luckily....
PC James Smith (now Lord Smith of Whitekirk) and Det Sgt Margaret Jackson (now Dame Jackson of Drumadoon) have said that nothing of interest was found. The supervising officer Det Insp Michael Parks (Now Lord Parks of Worth Matravers) stated that whilst nothing untoward had been identified, the procedures surrounding the "hacking" and its legality would be revised. "This revision is to be taken as the intrusion into downing street computers has caused undue distress and concern to members of the British government, and is therefore probably in contravention of the European Unions Human Rights Legislation" said a downing street media official Martin Smith-Spinalot. Lord Parks also noted that Mr John Hackeby, the home office official that had authorised the intrusion had been fired from the home office for theft of office supples and is in the process of being extradited to the United States due to his involvement in online gambling, terrorist funding and drugs trafficing, for which the US State department has said it probably has some sort of evidence, or could find some by strengthening or introduction legislation to allow it to do "anything it wants to do to fight bad things".
(just in case anybody missed it, the above is fictitious and intended as light humour)
If this was network based intrusion I would have thought the police used their priviledged position on the network to gain access, since the police network and downing streets network is run by the same contractor and there are various interconnects between the two dependant on the classification of each network. Said contractor also maintains all the IDS on the networks/interconnects so I imagine the police would simply take their warrent directly to their security team instead of trying to go through the motions of gaining access from the other end of the wire. As there is so much store put into securing the interconnects and ids there etc, the other end may be relatively soft, running open shares etc.
Anyone else certainly wouldnt be gaining access to the segment of the network that would let you do this, so I think all the comments about "if they can do it, anyone can" are definately not valid.
Its still very big brother though, and could be construed as the police using their powers to influence political will.
Cops hacking into computers? Must be because of the newest network "Donut Hole"..
Yeah. It's called separation of powers. It's in the American constitution. Ever heard of Watergate? One of our Presidents, Nixon, was indicted (or was going to be) for conspiring against another party and resigned before anything can be done. There is certainly the problem that cases like that can't be done in a normal court and therefore he was not put on trial as a normal civilian. However, there ARE corruption cases in the US, (like Abramoff). Btw, by definition, the police are part of the government even if the powers are separated. They ARE enforcing laws, after all.
"Perverting The Course Of Justice" Oh my God. How I wish that was a technical legal term here in the States. Simply great.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Blair is leaving this year ... the trick is to force him out before the May election, got to be good for everybody else.
Yes Nixon ran away from office. He should have been charged but Ford pardoned him.
The story about the Brit's using computers to crack Enigma is a myth. Certainly they used brute force machines to decode Enigma, but the cracking was largely done by hand/mind by some VERY clever people.
The nearest thing to a computer used at Bletchley Park was the Colossus. Colossus was used to attach the non-morse intercepts - essentially a network of high speed encrypted teletype networks (developed by Siemens) that the Germans were using for their more strategic work. The network itself was brillliant - essentially the first automatic switched communications network.
That was the secret that the Brit's kept - the story about the secret of cracking the Enigma was simply a clever cover - while many countries started using these encrypted teletype networks, the Brits were happily listening away.
[to the tune of appropriate number from HMS Pinafore]
When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door.
[Chorus] He polished up the handle of the big front door.
I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I'm proud to serve as a British MP!
[Chorus] He polished up that handle so carefullee,
That now he's proud to serve as a British MP!
As office boy I made such a mark
That they gave me the post of a junior clerk.
I served the writs with a smile so bland,
And I copied all the letters in a big round hand.
[Chorus] He copied all the letters in a big round hand.
I copied all the letters in a hand so free,
That now I'm proud to serve as a British MP!
[Chorus] He copied all the letters in a hand so free,
That now he's proud to be a British MP!
In serving writs I made such a name
That an articled clerk I soon became;
I wore clean collars and a brand-new suit
For the pass examination at the Institute.
[Chorus] For the pass examination at the Institute.
But that pass examination didn't do so well for me,
So I had to pay my way to be a British MP!
[Chorus] But that pass examination didn't do so well for he,
So he had to pay his way to be a British MP!
Of legal knowledge I bought such a slip
That they took me into the partnership.
And that junior partnership, I ween,
Was the only kind of stateship I ever had seen.
[Chorus] Was the only kind of stateship he ever had seen.
But that kind of stateship so suited me,
That now I'm proud to be a British MP!
[Chorus] But that kind of stateship so suited he,
That now he's proud to be a British MP!
I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament.
I always voted at my party's call,
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.
[Chorus] He never thought of thinking for himself at all.
I thought so little, they rewarded me
By making me a proud new British MP!
[Chorus] He thought so little, they rewarded he
By making him a proud new British MP!
Now office men, whoever you may be,
If you want to rise to the top of the tree,
If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool,
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
[Chorus] Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
Stick close to your cash but pay off the police,
And you all may be proud new British MP's
[Chorus] Stick close to your cash but pay off the police,
And you all may be proud new British MP's
From a different event. They have more detail.
http://forum.phun.org/showthread.php?t=117706
Resigned before anything could be done? If he committed a crime, it shouldn't matter that he quit the job first.
I'm not proposing that the British system is the paragon of integrity relative to the American system, but that's probably the best example you can give of the police correcting corrupt government behaviour, and it didn't work. Bush sends thousands of Americans to their deaths overseas, but the entire American political system sits on their hands.
But lie about a blowjob, and...
So what are peerages going for these days?
is a peerage?
What was is punishment?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
.... since Poland joined the EU, I think you will concur that we win anyway.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
No, Britain isn't going to the dogs. If it appears to be going to the dogs, that is because it has always appeared to be going to the dogs. The ranks of politicians are heavy with the venal, corrupt and self-serving because they always have been (more so for a party which has the possibility of having some power).
Oh yes. British police are the models of integrity ...... NOT!
9 5.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/62866
But it will be interesting to see where this trail will lead. Just because you are PM should not make you immune from prosecution.
Ummm... yeah. I acknowledged that thing about him quitting was a problem, didn't I? If I didn't but sorry. Btw, that thing you mentioned about Bush... Sending people to war isn't a crime. If you're going to bring up evidence about WMDs, fine. But don't mention the fact that it's a war. That's pointless.