Gorbachev Asks Gates to Intervene in Piracy Case

An anonymous reader writes to tell us that former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has asked Bill Gates to intervene in a software piracy case against the headmaster of a middle school. If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.

Comments

In Soviet Russia...

[drewzhrodague]

In Soviet Russia, Bill Gates hates YOU!

I'm sorry, I had to.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[$RANDOMLUSER]

In Soviet Amerika, Bill Gates sends gulag to YOU!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[drewzhrodague]

In Soviet Amerika, Bill Gates sends gulag to YOU!

Hm, now wouldn't that be convenient...

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[ThatsNotFunny]

Eh... i think i'll wait for Gulag SP2.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[sconeu]

I believe that's Windows Vista.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to be inside the gulag, wouldn't you want there to be more vulnerabilities??

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Brewskibrew]

Microsoft Novista. Forget the pretty green hills in XP. Now it's snow, ice and birch trees.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[icyblackhandofdeath]

I lived in Russia for two year. The problem with this as I see it is that outside of Moscow/St. Petersburg it is nearly impossible to find a legitimate copy of Windows. I've never seen one anyway. The same goes for music and DVDs, I wouldn't have known where to go to get a legit copy of anything, but the pirated versions were EVERYWHERE. In Russia they can just assume that anyone with a computer has something illegal on it. I would imagine that many people don't even realize that they're using pirated software, they're just using the software that they bought from some vendor on the street, and that's what everyone else in the whole country is doing, so why shouldn't they? It's probably mostly the teens who are more connected with the rest of the world through the internet cafes that have a good understanding of what's pirated and what's not. A lot of the adults, especially the farther you get from the capitol, don't even understand what piracy is. Computers are not ubiquitous the way they are in America. Just my $.02, having lived in Russia.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

OOOOhhh, Amerika with a K. Your political sensibilities must be so much more finely tuned than the rest of us. You're a tool.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[shutdown -p now]

Oh, a lot of people know they use pirated software. They just don't give a fuck. Mainly because legit copy of Windows costs more than many people's salary is (excepting Moscow - things are a bit different there). They can get an old PC for 1.5x that price, and a lot have to save for that for quite some time; why do you think they should be bothered to save a hundred bucks more to buy WinXP, especially if they can just as well go and buy it for $3?

As for schools, they are so underfunded it's no surprise that most of them run all pirated software. Same goes for universities. The one I studied in, we used WinNT4, Office97, MSVC6 and Delphi 3 on all the ~100 PCs we had - all pirated, of course.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Mercedes308]

And yet you so cleverly replied to the wrong parent.... Tool.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Vintermann]

"In Russia they can just assume that anyone with a computer has something illegal on it."

So what's different? Even I probably have things on my computer that some people would sue me for, and I use Linux.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[pulse2600]

no, no, no... "In Soviet Russia, software pirates YOU!!!"

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[rifter]

If you're going to be inside the gulag, wouldn't you want there to be more vulnerabilities??

Dude. Gulag is in Siberia. Is very cold. Last thing you are wanting is holes in the firewall, dig?

do the crime, do the time?

[yagu]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment. But, I don't always agree with the punishment in light of the crime. The world of software piracy is especially troubling to me.

It seems too much onus is put on the pirate and little on the accuser to carry the final outcome. I know if laws were enforced strictly I would have done some time -- I was once unpleasantly surprised to fire up Excel at a corporate computer to find my name and my license info plastered all over the screen... Someone had pirated my legitimate copy, but how to prove my innocence?

I've heard if you want to change a bad law, enforce it strictly. Maybe a few cases like this could bring more light to the heavy-handed tactics against the little guys (don't know if this one of those cases, but it certainly has the signature).

Unfortunately, I see the outcome of this as a huge PR win for Microsoft, and I think Gates may actually take the bait. This adds to his recent buildup of reputation as world benefactor. If he has Microsoft withdraw the complaint (or offers up some benevolent deal), Microsoft gets a PR coup. And, that would be a shame.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[blowdart]

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment

Why knowingly? Ignorance is not an excuse; you can be done for receiving stolen goods in the UK and simply claiming you did not know they were stolen is not a valid defence. Certainly this appears heavy handed because of the possible punishment, but that's not Microsoft's fault or problem.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[SydShamino]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

It's possible the schoolmaster assumed he could make unlimited copies of the software for non-profit, academic use only. If he works at a school that has to watch every penny in its budget (like 90% of schools in the world), and he makes barely enough to live on himself (like 90% of teachers in the world), he probably assumed Microsoft would not attempt to charge a price that he and his school would be unable to pay.

Clearly Russian schools need a donation of 10,000 Kubuntu live CDs. This will provide them with well-needed coasters, and maybe a few schools would try it out and switch to legitimate software rather than risk having their teachers sent to Siberia.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he didn't.

The school purchased computers from local wendor with Windows pre-installed.

The schoolmaster was chosen as scapegoat, simply because hi is the one "in charge"

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[b0s0z0ku]

Ignorance is not an excuse; you can be done for receiving stolen goods in the UK and simply claiming you did not know they were stolen is not a valid defence.

Depends what crime. A lot of felonies in the US have language that states "... with malice aforthought ...".

-b.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

Not really. The courts require Mens Rea before they can convict. No Mens Rea, no culpability, no crime. This is a basic requirement and can't be avoided (unless Russian corts are very, very weird). A bit on the scale of "No body, no crime".

Ignorance of the law actually is a defence when it can be proven the defedant truly could not have known something was either wrong or a crime. It isn't a defence for things that are obviously wrong with or without law, like murder, but for something like taxes, which, if unpaid because someone had no knowledge it was required, it can be. An extremely difficult defence, though. Which is why having a well known person who was leader of the country, like Gorby, on your side is important.

(I'm assuming this isn't a tort case since jail time is involved.)

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[tchuladdiass]

In some states in the US, there is a distinction between "ignorance of the law" and "ignorance of the facts". In your receiving stolen goods example, if a person had no reason to believe that the goods were stolen then there is no charge (althought the goods would still be forfieted). For example if you bought a plasma tv at Walmart that ended up in their supply chain via a crooked vendor then you wouldn't be charged with any felony. However, buying the same plasma tv out of the back of someones van for $50.00 could land you in hot water because a reasonable person should conclude that the merchandise was stolen property (the low price, the circumstances of purchase, etc).

So, if the same principle were to be applied, then this schoolmaster shouldn't have been charged since he aquired the equipment from a seemingly legitimate source. Of course, now we've blended UK, US, and Russian law all in one discussion.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[91degrees]

Why knowingly? Ignorance is not an excuse;

Why not? If someone clearly doesn't realise something is a crime, and there's no way for them to know, why treat them as though they are evil?

Certainly this appears heavy handed because of the possible punishment, but that's not Microsoft's fault or problem.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Microsoft has the ability to solve this. They have little to gain from this guy going to prison.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[the_B0fh]

Actually, in some countries, they have specific exemptions for schools/educational institutions.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[packeteer]

Russia has vastly different copyright laws than the USA. You cant just assume he knew it was illegal in Russia just becuase you know it is illegal in the USA. There are many things that are legal in Russia that people fullyy understand that we could hardly imagine as being legal. The fact that the teacher thought copying software for non-commercial education use is not hard for me to imagine.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[baldass_newbie]

If he works at a school that has to watch every penny in its budget (like 90% of schools in the world), and he makes barely enough to live on himself (like 90% of teachers in the world)

Horsehockey. Not saying Windows isn't overpriced (although there is now a version for developing countries), teachers, at least in the US, are paid better than most white collar workers.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[BoRegardless]

How about a fair punishment, like not penalizing the students.

If the headmaster was indeed knowingly at fault, charge the school full retail for the appropriate software and be done with it.

Likely that the headmaster was only doing what was possible under his restrictive circumstances.

I'll bet this convinces other headmasters to look for Linux mixmasters to load and run open source...real quickly.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Gverig]

Original letter says that the teacher bought computer with pre-installed software and was not aware of its being illegitimate. Does not really mean that it's true although seems quite possible. For reference, this teacher's salary was probably well below $100/month (Perm is hardly a commerce center)... The letter also mentions that organization that sold said computers to the school is not being investigated.

This is the Justice Russian Style

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[antiMStroll]

"I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs."

How is this different than hard time for stealing a loaf a bread? We've finally allowed a belief in corporate BS-wrapped self-interest almost religious in magnitude to push back human rights to Hugo's time. Siberian prison for using software? What have we become? Incidentally, my understnding is the Soviet system for IP was very much different than the West's. All of it was State owned. Implying that a back water school teacher was in some way acting in a 'nefarious' manner and knew the consequences of contravening fast changing WIPO statutes is almost beneath contempt.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Maxo-Texas]

I thought I knew that to be false since i thought teachers were poorly paid.

http://www.aft.org/salary/2004/download/2004AFTSal arySurvey.pdf

When I searched to post that, I find that yup- you are correct, they make about 8% more than the average worker.
However, they have been losing ground ever since 1996.

However, their benefits are apparently stellar (and include a couple months vacation vs 2-3 weeks, excellent retirement benefits, excellent health care benefits).

On the flip side, my friends who were high school teachers have to put in a lot of unpaid overtime (working basically 8am to 10pm a few days a week) before they quit the field.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Russia, you can buy pressed CDs and DVDs of various Microsoft products (some are actually MSDN pressed CDs) for a couple dollars at any large train/metro station. I don't see how pointing out a single person for the "crime" has any effect on general state of piracy there.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[QuickFox]

but how to prove my innocence? You don't have to prove your innocence. It's the prosecution that has to prove your guilt. If they can't, you're innocent.

Everybody should know this, because it's a very important principle in all democracies. It's part of the principle of rule of law.

In fact rule of law is so important that there's only a single exception among all the democratic countries. This exception is when the United States accuses you of terrorism. Then you become so extraordinarily scary that proof and rule of law no longer apply. When you commit the heinous act of getting accused by somebody, you automatically become guilty.

But copyright infringement hasn't been equated with terrorism. Not yet.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Cowpat]

Little to gain? There's a catering size can of bad PR with their name on it waiting to be claimed.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[OctaviusIII]

Well, the PR coup wouldn't be a bad thing. Microsoft needs it, and good PR is rarely deserved. Someone needs to pay for the piracy, but certainly not like this. Investigate the vendor and fine them for every computer sold to this point. Give the buyers options: buy a full copy of Windows Russia or cease using Windows and use Linux. It's not the harsh justice Russia's looking for but it's better than sending a teacher to a gulag for buying computers with pirated software when there probably wasn't even a way to buy them legit.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[yagu]

"I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs."

How is this different than hard time for stealing a loaf a bread? We've finally allowed a belief in corporate BS-wrapped self-interest almost religious in magnitude to push back human rights to Hugo's time. Siberian prison for using software? What have we become? Incidentally, my understnding is the Soviet system for IP was very much different than the West's. All of it was State owned. Implying that a back water school teacher was in some way acting in a 'nefarious' manner and knew the consequences of contravening fast changing WIPO statutes is almost beneath contempt.

I agree completely... hence my comment about changing a really bad law (or system of law) by enforcing it strictly. Unfortunately I'm not sure I see that as any likely result for this case. (And, btw, careful about your historic references... does anyone today even know who Hugo is anymore? To the Victors... (I do, one of my faves actually.)

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[QuickFox]

The school purchased computers from local wendor with Windows pre-installed. How weird that they prosecute the schoolmaster, who only bought computers, and not the vendor, who did the crime.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

If he has Microsoft withdraw the complaint (or offers up some benevolent deal), Microsoft gets a PR coup.

But this coup Gorbachev would approve.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[ChatHuant]

>>Why knowingly? Ignorance is not an excuse;

>Why not?

It's an ancient legal doctrine, dating since Roman times: "Ignorantia juris non excusat" (ignorance of the law is no excuse). It would be much to easy to break any law and plead ignorance.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[b0s0z0ku]

Clearly Russian schools need a donation of 10,000 Kubuntu live CDs. This will provide them with well-needed coasters, and maybe a few schools would try it out and switch to legitimate software rather than risk having their teachers sent to Siberia.

Well, if MS had a smart policy, they'd donate their software to Russian, Chinese, and Indian schools on the same theory why the first hit of crack or meth is free - once they're hooked, you have a customer for life.

-b.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[paeanblack]

Not really. The courts require Mens Rea [wikipedia.org] before they can convict. No Mens Rea, no culpability, no crime. This is a basic requirement and can't be avoided (unless Russian corts are very, very weird). A bit on the scale of "No body, no crime".

That is false. Mens Rea does not apply in this case.
http://www.lawteacher.net/Criminal/Principles/Stri ct%20Liability%20Lecture%201.htm

Infringing copyright is a strict-liability offence. The offender's state of mind is irrelevant in such offences. Well-known strict-liability offences include most traffic violations or statutory rape. It does not matter if you thought the parking space was legal or if you thought your partner was an adult...you are just as guilty either way.

On the other hand, you can't be punished for Mens Rea in a strict-liability offence. You cannot receive a ticket for "attempted speeding", no matter how hard you push that Yugo.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[networkBoy]

I don't know a single teacher that is any good at their job who doesn't grade papers at home (unpaid), buy some amount of supplies for their class (unreimbursed), and as a result make far less than average on an hourly basis.
-nB

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Lumpy]

In this non-free country (United States) Ignorance of the law is not a defence. If you did not know that what you were doing was illegal they can still imprision you.

What makes you think that in the Former USSR where they made up laws on the spot to imprision you for fun that this would be a defense?

The "Ignorance of the law is not a defense" is designed specifically to opress people, the United states lawmakers Knew this when they enacted it because even way back then it was impossible to know all the laws and that law was a start of making all honest men criminals for the government benefit.

Right now it is 100% impossible for anyone to know all laws that pertain to them and EVERY ONE OF YOU are criminals as you are breaking some law in some way right now.

Gotta love the "free" countries, they silently enact the stuff that the Facist countries do openly.

Hey, prove me wrong, tell me WHERE that the "ignorance of the law is no defense" is a benefit to ANYONE other the police and government.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[baldass_newbie]

We're talking averages not exceptions.
And they can grade papers whenever (most teachers do not teach every period and class ends at 2:30) as well as put in for tax credit for unreimbursed job expenses. So your 'good' teachers can't apportion their time well or figure out the tax system, eh?
They should be glad they don't have a job that is based on accountability or did not have legally mandated pay increases.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[superwiz]

Ignorance of the law, indeed, does not excuse one from guilt for its infraction. This is was a very well known principle in the Soviet Union. It was a commonly repeated phrase. So a school teacher certainly knew that. But this doesn't matter. Gorbachev is asking for mercy -- not justice.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[drinkypoo]

Clearly Russian schools need a donation of 10,000 Kubuntu live CDs. This will provide them with well-needed coasters, and maybe a few schools would try it out and switch to legitimate software rather than risk having their teachers sent to Siberia.

Given the state of Russian school computers (at least from what I'm told) they'd do better off with a few thousand copies of GEOS for the Commodore 64 :) But seriously, it should be xubuntu, not kubuntu. Ubuntu and kubuntu are both bloatware, because GNOME and KDE are both bloatware. Xubuntu will actually run on them old-ass machines without constant swapping.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[drinkypoo]

Right now it is 100% impossible for anyone to know all laws that pertain to them and EVERY ONE OF YOU are criminals as you are breaking some law in some way right now.

I agree with all of what you say save for this. For example I'd guess that most of your non-rumspringe amish are really not engaged in committing crimes on a daily basis.

It is possible to live without committing any crimes - if you hardly do anything.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[AusIV]

teachers, at least in the US, are paid better than most white collar workers.

I don't know many teachers who do all their work on the clock (as that editorial seems to assume). Grading papers, helping students after school are generally required by schools, but goes unpaid if it goes past the end of the work day. Sponsoring after school activities gets a little more, but definitely less than the daily wage. Most of the teachers I know put in a good 10 hours a day but get paid for 8. The article notes that they get 20% more per hour than comparable professions, but if they only get paid for 80% of their time, it balances out.

The argument can certainly be made that teachers don't have to put in that extra time. But that's largely the reason people believe teachers are underpaid. To ensure good educations, we need teachers who are willing to put in more time than 8 hours a day. A teacher who is really committed to their students may frequently put in a 60 hour work week, (I know I had teachers who did). If we want more teachers like that, we need to pay more.

Lastly, that article considers hourly wages, but teachers don't work summers. Many teach summer school or have other jobs during the summer (often working retail), because just teaching the normal schedule barely provides enough to live on. Teachers ultimately make about 60% as much money as other comparable professions.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[drinkypoo]

Infringing copyright is a strict-liability offence. The offender's state of mind is irrelevant in such offences. Well-known strict-liability offences include most traffic violations or statutory rape. It does not matter if you thought the parking space was legal or if you thought your partner was an adult...you are just as guilty either way.

That's not true. I mean, it is in the case of the parking space, but that's because you're expected to know what the different kinds of parking spaces are and what they mean. But in the case of stat rape, you can get off (heh heh) if you can show that you made a serious attempt to validate her age (I say her because let's face it, women don't get busted for stat rape unless they're a teacher or something - I myself had a 20 year old girlfriend when I was 15) by checking ID and whatnot. Unless you're a bouncer or something, you cannot be expected to detect a fake ID (you are not an expert.)

Of course, first you have to win in the court of public opinion to get such justice. Winning in a court of law is sort of dependent on that.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[karnal]

I understand the sentiment towards the school and all, but only charging full retail price?

If you go and shoplift (I know, physical stuff here...) you'll get dinged for a fine + the value of the goods stolen. And you don't get to keep the goods.

Incentive to not do it again is the key when you get caught doing something illegal....

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[BoRegardless]

The assumption is that a school would normally get a bundled much lower cost pricing deal.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[HomelessInLaJolla]

> Ignorance is not an excuse

When the legal code in the US fills entire floors of a stadium sized library how in the world can ignorance not be an excuse? There isn't a single person in the nation who knows all of the laws.

We do not have too many criminals. We have too many laws.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[pipatron]

But copyright infringement hasn't been equated with terrorism. Not yet.

I wish you were correct: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,109808-page,1/ar ticle.html

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no idea.
Back when I was a high school student in Ukraine, my teachers made $25. A MONTH. Things haven't changed much since then in the former Soviet Union.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[lucerin]

personally, i dont think that even if MS withdraws the charges it'll be a win for them. they've shown that they are willing to send a man to siberia simply because they can. it's like MS is a steam-roller, and it doesnt pay attention to what it's crushing until someone points out that it's just run over a small child. this is a great opportunity for redhat or some other MS competitor to get good PR, just offer to pay the guy's legal fees and supply the school with some software

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rossz]

There's another exception where you are considered guilty just by being accused. In California, a women can accuse her spouse of abuse and get a restraining order. The really bad part is the existence of this restraining order can be used as PROOF that abuse occurred. A lot of innocent men have had their lives turned into hell because of false allegations.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[pluther]

...you are correct, they make about 8% more than the average worker.

That's 8% more than the average of all workers.

Teachers, though, are degreed professionals.

When compared against other degreed professionals (page 5 of that same document), you'll see they make considerably less. In 2004, about 60% of the average for other professions that require a four year degree plus certification.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[XnavxeMiyyep]

But this is not ignorance of the law. He may not have known that the software was pirated. This would be ignorance of the action entirely.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[HBI]

That is one awful pun. Congrats!

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Curtman]

When the legal code in the US fills entire floors of a stadium sized library

How many libraries of congress is that?

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder whether those numbers might not be telling the whole story. Arriving at an hourly compensation rate is somewhat unfair to teachers. They officially work 6 hours a day, 9 months a year...so somewhere around 1000 hours per year. The average professional works about twice that. Yet it's very difficult for them to find other employment to make up the difference, at least at a comparable wage. During the school year, as many have noted, teachers have work they bring home with them. During the summer, they're left with only jobs from employers who are willing to hire someone who they know is leaving 3 months later.

So we pay teachers handsomely for the ~1000 hours the officially work, but put them in a position where they cannot make up the discrepancy in hours. Sure, you can make the argument that their quality of life is higher due to their extra free time, but in terms of compensation, yearly pay is a much more accurate metric of earnings. I have a friend with a post-graduate degree in education who makes as a teacher less than half what I (college dropout...IT) make. He has ~$80k in student loans, while I've completely repaid mine. It's definitely an example of choosing your priorities, but he definitely knows he's going to be making a lot less money than most of his friends.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[HomelessInLaJolla]

> How many libraries of congress is that?

All of them, plus the relevant libraries of the respective states, plus the libraries of the respective counties, plus the libraries of the relevant cities, plus the libraries of the relevant municipalities, plus the libraries of the relevant precincts.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Maxo-Texas]

Yes but a teacher's degree is considerably easier to get than an electrical engineering or hard science computer science degree.

It's rather ironic that multiple replys to my offtopic parent post were modded up.

But it is slashdot moderation at it's finest.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

However, buying the same plasma tv out of the back of someones van for $50.00 could land you in hot water because a reasonable person should conclude that the merchandise was stolen property (the low price, the circumstances of purchase, etc).

Ahh, but I know that many of the people selling "Hot" products are really selling cheap overpriced knockoffs. So I know that the plasma TV for $50 is probably not stolen, but is in fact a POS that will likely break if it ever works at all. So if it works, I just got lucky. But I didn't knowingly buy stolen merchandise.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[MindStalker]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

Well, up until just a few years ago pirating was not a crime. You have to remember not so long ago they were a communist country where there was little concept of property and no concept of intellectual property.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[dcam]

And they can grade papers whenever (most teachers do not teach every period and class ends at 2:30)

Teachers also have staff meetings. They also need to plan and organise lessons.

as well as put in for tax credit for unreimbursed job expenses

Which will not completely reimburse them for the money spent.

So your 'good' teachers can't apportion their time well or figure out the tax system, eh?
They should be glad they don't have a job that is based on accountability or did not have legally mandated pay increases.

I think you should stick to talking about stuff you know.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[wordsnyc]

Unfortunately, I see the outcome of this as a huge PR win for Microsoft, and I think Gates may actually take the bait. This adds to his recent buildup of reputation as world benefactor. If he has Microsoft withdraw the complaint (or offers up some benevolent deal), Microsoft gets a PR coup. And, that would be a shame.

So this poor schmuck should rot in Siberia so as not to make Gates look human or MS to look reasonable? May I suggest you offer to switch places with him? It's the principle, after all.

And the bad news is that Gates IS a world benefactor. Bad news unless you live in sub-Saharan Africa, that is.

Look, I hate MS as much as anyone. Happiest day of my computing life was when I dumped Windows for Linux. But as enemies of humanity, MS doesn't make the team. They write shitty software and screw consumers, but they do far less real damage than the average investment bank.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[quanticle]

As another poster stated, we have to make a distinction between ignorance of the law and ignorance of the facts. If this schoolteacher acquired his software from a dealer who sold pirated copies, then he ought not face punishment. If he pirated the software himself, then perhaps he should be held liable (depending on the laws in the country).

In any case, doesn't it seem somewhat farcical that this is a criminal case at all? By all rights this should be in civil court IMO.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[evilgeekgirl999]

I'm a psychotherapist that runs an Adolescent Day Treatment program at a Special Education school for kids that have a difficult time functioning in a regular school setting due to traumas such as severe child abuse that have left them emotionally impaired. I am not school staff, I am assigned there through our county's Mental Health. In this program, all the staff including the other mental health support person and 3 school staff put our personal monies into the program on a weekly basis just to get the kids basic necessities for school. These necessities include materials for academics, athletic activities, art-based activities, prosocial activities, and sometimes even food for kids with special dietary needs because the school cafeteria simply disregards the kid needs or believes that sugar filled cereals and orange juice should be fine for a diabetic kid's breakfast. This is five people from both school and mental health based program putting in personal funds, and the kids still have school books from 2-3 decades ago, and sometimes run out of things like lined paper.

I am very grateful that I am not a teacher because I can't imagine using my personal funds when on a teacher's salary. I am still resentful that I feel the need to put so much personal funding from my own wallet in order to help have the kids a decent school setting, and I make significantly more than a teacher. I truly think that without teachers putting in their personal funds, the school system in this state (California, I can't speak for other states) would completely fall apart. Not that they would have far to go. I am sure that it is much more difficult in somewhere like Russia to provide a decent learning environment for students. I think it is a sad day when Russian dictators like Vladimir Putin demonstrate more generosity than the head of an American corporation. Sad, unfortunately I guess not very surprising.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Maxo-Texas]

Managers manage until things fail. They will work you to death if you let them. They can't tell the difference between normal grousing and and genuine problems. When things break down, they know they've pushed to hard and they finally back off.

As long as the teachers are putting their own money in, there is no failure.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[shutdown -p now]

Russia is not US. Teachers in public schools are not a well-paid profession here (same as doctors in public clinics, and pretty much everyone who gets paid by the state - the state is not particularly generous).

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to prove your innocence. It's the prosecution that has to prove your guilt. If they can't, you're innocent.

Not in "free" USofA, where mere presence of some pictures of a naked child on your computer can land you in the US version of the Gulag for dealing in "child porn". Give it a try.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[TheLink]

That's the trouble of having laws with a default unlimited lifespan.

I've been proposing that all laws should have a limited lifespan, and require legislators to approve and renew them before they expire.

Even a country's Constitution should have a limited lifespan!

A Constitution could have a lifespan of say 200 or 100 years, and if a country survives long enough it can throw a huge party when the times comes to renew it.

Sure legislators will try to bundle hundreds of laws together to renew them, but they already bundle hundreds of laws together and pass them permanently which is worse. At least with my proposal there's still a chance that legislators with integrity and a conscience might actually object to the renewal of the bundle with a law from a previous cycle that they have been wanting to get rid of.

If it takes too much effort to renew thousands of laws regularly, then there are too many laws for the citizens to follow.

Legislators should also be encouraged to make better written laws instead of the equivalent of thousands of IF-THEN-ELSE lines.

You don't need that many laws too if you have decent judges.

While it doesn't matter how good your laws are if the people in charge of making and enforcing them are crap, currently even if these people retire or die, their bad laws tend to live on to plague everyone. Sure the worst laws get repealed, but AFAIK there isn't a team of repealers going around looking for crappy laws to repeal - perhaps if my proposal is too radical, having dedicated teams of repealers is better than nothing.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[pla]

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment.

Forgive my French, but... Life in fucking prison for a goddamned copyright violation???

No. That sort of punishment simply should not exist for a nonviolent crime. And for a violent crime... Well, he could have raped a nun and murdered a cop and still had a good chance of seeing daylight in 20-30 years. But break a law that protects corporate profits while trying to help his students get the best education possible on limited funds...



This world has problems. Some mornings I wake up, read the headlines, and wish that asteroid would hurry up already.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[91degrees]

As I said, "And there is no way for them to know". If it's completely unreasonable that they should know, then they have no malicious intent. Clearly, he had no idea that he was doing anything illegal.

Just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean its right. Otherwise, we'd also apply Cito necatus insignis ad deformitatem puer esto. (An obviously deformed child must be put to death).

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[KDR_11k]

It seems that Russian law blames the user for pirated software even if he doesn't know it's pirated.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Vintermann]

> Well, he could have raped a nun and murdered a cop and still had a good chance of seeing daylight in 20-30 years.
It's Putin's Russia we are talking about. As long as he can buy a SUV for the judge, he'll stay in daylight for as long as he likes.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't agree with automatic time limits on laws, particularly not constitutions (which can therefore be revoked simply by waiting long enough). However, I do agree with your underlying point that today's legal systems are vastly overcomplicated, and it is silly to expect everyone to understand them.

My personal "radical suggestion" has for a long time been that laws should be written as statements of principle that may be no longer than one page of normal size text. Discussion in the legislature should address whether the idea is correct, not some subsubsubclause on page 157 of a document only four MPs ever read. It should be left to the courts to consider the facts of any specific case in context and then decide whether or not the principles of the law have been violated, and to pass a suitable sentence if so.

Under such a system, I suspect you could store the entire useful content of most legal systems in a single ring-binder. As a bonus, lawyers would have to rely on making principled arguments with supporting evidence rather than legal technicalities or auto-pilot prosecutions.

Oh, well, a man can still dream of a better world, can't he? :-)

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

It's possible the schoolmaster assumed he could make unlimited copies of the software for non-profit, academic use only. If he works at a school that has to watch every penny in its budget (like 90% of schools in the world), and he makes barely enough to live on himself (like 90% of teachers in the world), he probably assumed Microsoft would not attempt to charge a price that he and his school would be unable to pay.

I've spent a decent amount of time in Ukraine and while Ukraine is not Russia, it's roughly equivalent. First of all, I am amazed that a school teacher was targeted for this crackdown. He must have made some enemies somewhere is all I can figure. I know two teachers in Ukraine who teach English. In one case, the teacher is someone who teaches because she views it as her contribution to society, but she told me she can't make enough money just on her teacher's salary to live. She also gives English lessons as a private tutor and she makes a lot more money from private lessons than as a teacher. The other teacher no longer teaches in school and lives only by giving private English lessons as she makes a lot more money that way. I even once knew a college professor around 30 years old who was still living with her parents in Ukraine in part because she didn't make a lot of money.

Schools in that part of the world don't have money to buy Microsoft products, which get no discounts. Multiply the price of software by 5 and consider what it would be like if you had to pay it and you have a very rough idea of what the econonmic conditions are like over there. I'm amazed that the school even has PCs and it probably doesn't have very many of those. There is no way the school could afford to buy Microsoft products, but a very good question is why is this school and this teacher being cracked down upon? Who did they piss off? I've read some estimates that at least 90% of Microsoft products in the ex-USSR are cracked versions and from what I've seen I believe it. I'm sure there is no shortage of offices in Moscow where nobody has a legal copy of Windows, yet it's a rural school teacher they are going to make an example of.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[hey!]

Counter argument:

Ideally, the law forbids acts that are wrong. That is to say in a perfect world, all things forbidden by law are wrong, although everything that is wrong is not necessarily forbidden.

The reason you should not drive drunk is because it endangers others, not because it is illegal. True the law draws a sharp line at a certain blood alcohol level that you may not know. However that level is chosen in a way that you should know without being told that that much drinking is incompatible with safe motor vehicle operation.

Morally speaking, copyright is an interesting case, because it is a statutory bargain between the public and creators. To some degree the reasoning still applies: you should not deprive creators of their due rewards under the system. But it is entirely possible that an individual can, without fault, be unaware of the precise details of the copyright bargain. This is especially so in the digital age, where every computer is potentially a printing press and multimedia studio. It's much harder to know that you are transgressing in this case than in the drunk driving case; both involve lines that are drawn to some degree of arbitrarily, however there is no way for a reasonable individual to know when he crosses the copyright line without expert assistance.

As society becomes more complex, there are many conventions adopted about the extent of rights for various parties, e.g. with respect to privacy or intellectual property. Many more of our laws draw lines we can't identify without the help of a lawyer.

In these cases, it would be well to remember the words of Shakespeare in The Merchant of Venice:

Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

In a society as complex as ours, our laws tend to be correspondingly complex. Those who call for the law to be inexorable take care: none of us can evade transgressing the law some of the time.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[mr_mischief]

Good luck finding a cheap knockoff plasma TV for $50. It's not a handbag or a watch. The name on it and the metal of which it's made are not the primary determining factors in its price.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[slim]

I don't know a single teacher that is any good at their job who doesn't grade papers at home (unpaid), buy some amount of supplies for their class (unreimbursed), and as a result make far less than average on an hourly basis.
-nB I live with one. I've also worked in the education system. Our combined observations are:

• An awful lot of teachers spend hours complaining about their workload over coffee and biscuits in the staffroom. In the time spent whingeing, the marking/lesson planning/admin they're complaining about could have been done.
• Many teachers seem unable to create efficient workflows for themselves. Where someone algorithmically minded might attack a mark-and-collate job by first stacking the work to be marked in appropriate piles, they'll find some tremendously inefficient way of organising the task. It can be quite frustrating to watch them: "But if you were only to put that pile here..." "Stop confusing me!"
• Many teachers are terrible at re-use. As long as the curriculum stays still, you should be able to use the same lesson plans year after year. After the first year, there ought to little or no lesson planning required: just some incremental changes. Yet many teachers spend hours doing the same work year upon year.
• Re-use again. Many schools are terrible at sharing. If 4 classes are taking the same syllabus, why do four people each need to be producing lesson plans independently? Yet that's what seems to happen. Further, some teachers even object to the idea of someone else using their lesson plans!

My partner considers herself a good teacher; she NEVER brings work home and she NEVER gets home late because of workload (as opposed to parents' evenings etc.)

In an attempt to seem more sympathetic to teachers, I will say this: the qualities which would make them better at organising their workload and getting with it are not the same qualities that make them good at teaching subjects like English Literature.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[internic]

Yes but a teacher's degree is considerably easier to get than an electrical engineering or hard science computer science degree.

Your proof?

I'm not necessarily saying your statement is incorrect, but I think it is likely more a reflection of prejudice than data.

I would simply say that, having taught some college Physics classes as a teaching assistant, when I look at people teaching high school I marvel at how tough that job must be in the long term. ...at least, if they are trying to do a decent job. I think that those who think the job is easy have no idea what they're talking about.

What really amazes me is people who simultaneously bemoan the lack of quality teachers and say that the answer isn't "throwing more money at the problem." I don't understand why people who otherwise acknowledge that the free market system works suddenly decide that teaching is the one case where higher pay doesn't attract more talent.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[TheLink]

"I don't agree with automatic time limits on laws, particularly not constitutions (which can therefore be revoked simply by waiting long enough). "

If the people in power are going to skip renewing the Constitution on its 200th Anniversary, I think you would already be in big trouble WAY WAY before that.

After all you think such people wouldn't be amending it or just ignore it?

Lastly, if people somehow forget/refuse to renew the laws on murder, maybe someone should kill them.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

"When the legal code in the US fills entire floors of a stadium sized library how in the world can ignorance not be an excuse?"

Folks almost always truncate the rationale from the quote, which makes much more sense when written in full.

"Ignorance of the law excuses no man; not that all men know the law; but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to confute him."

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[wiredlogic]

I agree that in many parts of the US the teachers are underpaid but you must remember that most of them only work nine months out of the year. In some states the typical teacher's salary is over $50K. This is better than the median income levels in the US, especially for women.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[SeattleGameboy]

Let's compare apples to apples.

No "average" professionals get summer, winter, and spring breaks like teachers do. When you compare that to the fact that "average" professionals get 2 weeks of vacation, you get 60% of the pay for 75% ~ 80% of work, so it is not as terrible as you indicate, not great, but not that terrible.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Medievalist]

When the legal code in the US fills entire floors of a stadium sized library how in the world can ignorance not be an excuse? There isn't a single person in the nation who knows all of the laws.

Exactly, that's why ignorance of the law cannot be an excuse. Nobody would be convicted of *anything* - the rich could simply ignore all financial law, for example - because everyone can show that it's impossible to know all the laws, therefore it's believable that any particular law was not known.

We do not have too many criminals. We have too many laws.

Ah, you're channeling ancient Greeks. The next step forward in human society may well be to have all laws automatically expire every year unless renewed, to keep all the politicians so busy renewing the indispensible laws (such as those forbidding murder) that they won't have time to write this week's popular stupidity into permanent law. A man can dream, eh?

"All law is like a spiders' webs. The tiniest slip unnoticed between the strands, whilst the mighty easily break through them; only the middle sized are entangled and held." --attributed to Anacharis of Scythia, 6th century BCE

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus (Annals of Imperial Rome, III, 27)

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rifter]

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment. But, I don't always agree with the punishment in light of the crime. The world of software piracy is especially troubling to me.

Have we all gone insane here? It's okay for people in the US to p2p all the warez they want but this poor bastard should die in a gulag for offending Lord Gates? This man was an educator simply trying to give students a chance to learn about computers and have some semblance of a chance in life. If there is a crime here it is the fact that the Russian government did not adequately fund the school so that legal copies could be obtained, and Microsoft did not give them the beneficial deals that they claim to give schools. Yes, I know, it's nothing like some companies that have given software and equipment to schools for free in the past, but at least it would be something, and it would appear there was a failure here in that regard which Gorbachev is simply asking Gates to rectify.

Besides the fact that in a country where intellectual property did not exist at all not long ago, and in which piracy is apparently so rampant you could throw a rock (a snowball) and hit a pirate, it is apalling to think that software piracy is a criminal offense in the first damn place. Especially when you consider that there are no "country club prisons" in Russia. They are serious business over there; seriously old-school as in medieval.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Maxo-Texas]

Well let's see.

There is a 70% drop out rate from classes designed to force that drop out rate in both those degrees.
Then on the "non weed out" courses my friends over in the teaching programs were doing maybe 10 hours a week per class (at most) while those in the COSC program were doing 35 hours a week for the database class alone. It was not uncommon at all to spend 30 hours a week studying for advanced physics and math courses either.

I agree that money would attract quality- but how do you determine what is quality? You often do not see the real results of good teaching for over a decade. While a good teacher has an enormous impact, there is almost no way to measure that a teacher is instilling a desire to learn into students vs simply ramming material into them for the tests. It's a very difficult to find a reasonable and reliable metric for what a "good teacher" is. Esp when you get the teaching organizations involved.

We recently gave out bonuses up to $7000 for teachers in Texas. The results? Teachers with poor results but big improvement got big bonuses. Teachers with great results but little improvement got no bonuses. Some of the good teachers had even won awards for excellence but got no bonus.

But again- is excellence students who test well (measurable) or students who learn well (not measurable til years later)?

Personally- I think we should at least start to try. Measure drop out rates- measure college attendance (and graduation rates)- and feed that back into the teacher's salary. But it will warp the system-- people do what you incent- not what you want them to do. If you don't incent a desirable behavior, most will stop doing it and do what you are incenting.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[jackbird]

as well as put in for tax credit for unreimbursed job expenses.

Credit? What country do you live in? In the US, it's a deduction - big difference.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rifter]

A Constitution could have a lifespan of say 200 or 100 years, and if a country survives long enough it can throw a huge party when the times comes to renew it.

1) If we did that, it is unlikely that the Constitution would be renewed.

2) As it stands, politicians simply ignore it anyhow, regardless of the fact that absent the Constitution they have no authority at all!

Laws requiring expiry in general might not seem a bad idea on their face. After all all a party needs to do to get rid of an egregious law is nothing at all, or at most filibuster and run out the clock. Then the law expires and they did not have to take an up/down vote on it. Voila! Some fun laws that actually did this include the Patriot Act. Unfortunately they seem to have kept that one around.

Still I am not sure it's such a good idea for all laws, mainly for the above reaosn, but also for the fact that it requires then that any good laws be reinvented constantly or at least reconstituted. That could cause a bit of chaos and deter progress in actual legal reform.

Personally I have always agreed that we have too many laws, and in the deregulation of individuals. That is, why are politicians so hot to remove silly safety and environmental laws from poor innocent big giant corporations with the claim that enforcement is too tough, not cost effective, and counterproductive to letting said entities Get Things Done, yet they seem perfectly content to regulate the hell out of me, my personal life, who I marry, who I have sex with and where and when, what I eat and drink, whether I smoke, and when and what I say wherever I may say it! For crying out loud! The same assholes that think it's fine to release more arsenic in my drinking water want to make it illegal for me to eat Oreos. Fucking OREOS! They even convinced Nabisco to change their recipe. I've been afraid to look ever since, lest I confirm my fear that the original Oreo has indeed gone the way of New Coke, or maybe the way we thought Classic Coke had. Gone never to be seen again. Lost in a forest of regulation.

It only makes sense that we reduce our laws, weeding out unnecessary garbage so that the real needs are addressed; further we should rewrite those few laws left that actually apply to ordinary folk so that they are in plain decent english and not a bunch of Bullshit. No more of this business of laws like the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance reform bill which, after years of blood sweat and tears was so shredded it did nothing at all; some of these bills actually end up making the problem they were supposed to correct worse, and they can get away with it because of legalese and bullshitese, which tend to share a common lexicon. And no more of that Orwell crap where you pass a law that is named the exact opposite of what it really does -- on purpose. If there is a use for Gitmo it is for people who pull that crap. Passing bills that increase spending and calling it balanced budget, passing bills that increase pollution and calling it "clear skies," etc etc. That shit needs to stop too.

Unfortunately we have very little chance under the current system of fixing any of this because the little gremlins who gummed up the works in the first place are the only mechanics allowed to tinker with the engine, and they like it with pork stuck in the gears and hoi polloi crushed under the byzantine, rube-goldberg inspired works. It amuses them and serves their purpose, and the only way to clear them all out is by summoning a clear consensus and political will to do so in a world where such things are deliberately manipulated through media maestros. In other words, the same struggle mankind has engaged in from the first Ziggurat to the latest FNC broadcast antenna.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rifter]

The reason you should not drive drunk is because it endangers others, not because it is illegal. True the law draws a sharp line at a certain blood alcohol level that you may not know. However that level is chosen in a way that you should know without being told that that much drinking is incompatible with safe motor vehicle operation.

At one time this was the case, or at least reasonably close. But laws are formed by politicians acting on prompts from lobbyists, not by wise scientist doctors or some such nonsense. So in order to appear "tough" on an issue, they must make the laws regarding a given act more and more strict and the punishment more and more stringent. This is not done with an eye to actual correction, but rather with an eye to reelection. In any case in many states the blood alcohol level required for drunkenness is ridiculously low, to the point where it is far beyond the level where one is far from intoxicated yes legally "drunk," into the fantasy land where drinking pretty much ever is going to screw you. I think in some states they are actually trying to beat the limit by going for 0.01% BAC as drunkenness. It's pretty much standard to see 0.08% and I think 0.06% and 0.05% have started floating around. It's a game.

I personally think it is manifestly wrong, immoral, and grossly irresponsible to drive when you are under the influence of a drug that you know is impairing your ability. I also think that drugs of that nature tend to encourage that behaviour, but that's beside the point, as is the fact that our vehicle-driven society has led us to a place where bars exist outside of town when your homes are inside, or vice versa, and there is no public transport therefrom. Gee I wonder what goes on there every night. People walk the line, test their limits, and some of them get caught before they kill someone. But at the same time the law that is supposed to stop that happening criminalizes the guy who wasn't actually impaired as well. Meanwhile cleverly failing to address the underlying problem of why in the hell are people still doing this in the first place, like some responsible nations have done.

In any case, regardless of your feelings on the matter, no, it has been pretty much proven that unless you use a breathalyzer yourself you do not know what your BAC is. That goes for the supremely sloshed (who should sure know they aren't in any shape to drive) as well as the guy who had one beer an hour ago and should have metabolized it, but is astonished to find himself breaking the law.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

But this (illegal) copy of Windows was bundled into a computer. How many outside the computer industry can tell if they are getting their "free" OEM copy of Windows too cheap?

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rifter]

"If he works at a school that has to watch every penny in its budget (like 90% of schools in the world), and he makes barely enough to live on himself (like 90% of teachers in the world)"

Horsehockey. Not saying Windows isn't overpriced (although there is now a version for developing countries), teachers, at least in the US, are paid better than most white collar workers.

First off, the article you cite is an opinion piece, biased by the author's agenda, and uses faulty data and reasoning to reach its conclusion. Attempts to break down a teacher's salary into an hourly wage invariably rely upon the myth that teachers only work during class hours and at no other time during the day/year. This is manifestly untrue as any teacher will tell you. Inservices, workshops, and other work-related meetings are held year-round; quite a bit of work is being done during the summer which is never counted in these types of articles. This is quite apart from the vast amounts of time during evenings and weekends spent creating lesson plans, grading papers, and creating tests. Lumping all teachers together is also going to skew your results, as teacher salaries vary wildy depending on district, region, state, and even between different parts of the same city. Then of course there are the variables of performance and experience which influence any salary for any job. At the very least a comparison of absolute salaries is closer, though it must also be weighed against the above in similar fashion to a proper analysis of IT salaries.

A more detailed approach is required to truly understand a problem like teacher pay, but articles like the one you cite abound. After all it is easy to dash off a poorly researched, bombastic article with crudely manipulated "factoids" and whip people into a frenzy over some controversial issue, but real research is quite a bit harder. If anything articles like this are proof that someone is getting a very bad education, but a displayed attitude like that toward educators does beg the question of whether the person was not himself part of that problem. In any case, F- for the article and shame on you for believing such garbage. No wonder you get your news here :D.

It is funny that someone writing in a forum frequented by people who are routinely lambasted as overpaid yet know better by virtue of things like 80 hour workweeks, 24 hour on-call status, potentially very short careers due to the dual press between age bias and the need for experience, etc would not be more sympathetic to teachers. But then our profession is also notorious for attracting dropouts from college as well; perhaps that would explain some of the anti-academic attitude which seems incongruous with the fact that our profession is supposed to be a science.

Secondly, the whole question of US K-12 teacher salaries is irrelevant to the question of the funding of a rural school in Russia or that teacher's salary. So -1 offtopic, F- for reading comprehension, and detention for you! :D

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[rifter]

Managers manage until things fail. They will work you to death if you let them. They can't tell the difference between normal grousing and and genuine problems. When things break down, they know they've pushed to hard and they finally back off.

A good manager would know they have pushed too hard, but if they are a good manager they would not be using the technique you describe. When did Stalin back off?

As long as the teachers are putting their own money in, there is no failure.

Relying on failure to precipitate positive change is not a reliable method. It requires that the blame for the failure be properly placed, and that is highly unlikely here (as in most mismanaged systems). Failures of our government and of school administrators have been blamed instead on the teachers for decades (much as failures in other workplaces often fall on the heads of workers rather than managers). Why would that magically stop now?

The teachers are using their own money to help the children because they are dedicated to their job and do not think that the chidlren deserve to suffer because the adults running things are complete assholes. It is unfair to ask that children be given an even more substandard education just so that people will somehow wake up and find a better, more fair method of funding schools, when all the hard-luck cases in the world (like schools in the South with no air conditioning and such outdated wiring that it is impossible to support things like computers in that environment) have not been enough to cause the outcry for real change. What little politicians have done has actually served to make the problem worse. Why bait the monster?

Teachers are just doing what any professional would do under the circumstances. It's not that different from what many IT workers have had to do, for example. You do what you can to make things better within the limited sphere you are granted. If that means buying a few extra reams of paper and pencils and such so that kids have at least some semblance of a chance of participating in the educational process, so be it. If that means teaching the kids a few of the things they are supposed to be learning in between the time you are forced to cram them for tests whose results will be skewed or faked anyway then you do that, too. What you don't do is let a child do without when you could have helped, anymore than you would fail to put out a fire on your company's main file server just because your boss was too cheap to buy th eright fire extinguishing equipment.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[try_anything]

Why not? If someone clearly doesn't realise something is a crime, and there's no way for them to know, why treat them as though they are evil?

Evil != criminal.

Trying to unite the two concepts leads to distrust, acrimony, and distraction from important issues. (Unfortunately, it's also the only reason most people are interested in politics at all, at least in the absence of war and famine.)

Change "evil" to "criminal" and you have a point that deserves an answer. I'm inclined to agree with you, though different aspects of law might need exceptions to avoid giving criminals carte blanche.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

Depending on the country (example: Canada) Absolute Liability offences cannot carry any jail sentence at all, and Strict Liability offences have a very limited jail punishment (Is it 6 months? Someone care to expound on this?). Any extreme punishment such as the one this person may get automatically causes the case to be Mens Rea, if not by the Charter of Rights (again, Canadian, section 7 to be specific) but by the absolute right to a jury for such a long jail sentence (Section 10).

While US law is a bit backwards as the Bill of Rights is older than the Charter of Rights (which is why absolutely ridiculous cases of rape only need an age to prove, in Canada the best that would do is convict someone of sex with a minor), Russia became a free country with rights that were codified even later than Canada's, almost definitely ensuring them the same or better rights than those of Canadians.

This may be of service, especially for Canadians involved in certain traffic violations that can put them in jail:

In Reference Re Section 94(2) of the Motor Vehicle Act, the Supreme Court struck down a provincial statute that made the prohibited driving of a motor vehicle an offence of absolute liability punishable by both fine and imprisonment.

Lastly, a valid defence in strict liability is to prove the defendant took reasonable care to comply with the law. I believe a case exists to show that the defendant did take reasonable care to comply with the law -- the law as it is commonly known -- as the law in Russia on copyright is incredibly murky (allofmp3, anyone?) Did the school pay its ROMS dues? If so, even if it is copyright violation, the teacher really did do everything in his power to comply with the law as he saw it.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[internic]

There is a 70% drop out rate from classes designed to force that drop out rate in both those degrees. Then on the "non weed out" courses my friends over in the teaching programs were doing maybe 10 hours a week per class (at most) while those in the COSC program were doing 35 hours a week for the database class alone. It was not uncommon at all to spend 30 hours a week studying for advanced physics and math courses either.

I stand overwhelmed by the power of your anecdotal evidence. Consider, however, the possibility that the few people you happened to know at your one school may not really provide you with a very clear idea of the situation. I will say, however, that I and most of my friends probably didn't spend much in excess of 10 hours a week on our Physics classes when getting out B.S. degrees. I don't think I spent considerably more time than that on a single class until grad school.

Another point I should have made is that I don't think pay levels generally do (or necessarily should) have much correlation to the difficulty in obtaining a degree. Hell, by that measure people with business degrees shouldn't even be able to earn minimum wage (ok, now that's my prejudice). A lot of it has to do with the danger, unpleasantness, difficulty, etc. of the day to day performance of the job. As I indicated before, I think the day to day difficulty and sometimes unpleasantness of teaching K-12 can be pretty high. Of course, what's largely important is how many people can do the job, and without proper evaluation it's really hard to say who's up to the task.

I agree that money would attract quality- but how do you determine what is quality? You often do not see the real results of good teaching for over a decade. While a good teacher has an enormous impact, there is almost no way to measure that a teacher is instilling a desire to learn into students vs simply ramming material into them for the tests. It's a very difficult to find a reasonable and reliable metric for what a "good teacher" is.

It's certainly not easy to measure the effectiveness of teaching, but there certainly are metrics that will give you some idea. In Physics, there's been a lot of research into this in recent years. For example, to address your point there are attitude surveys that help to measure if a course makes students more enthused about a subject. Testing before and after teaching can tell you something about the effect of the teacher. Together with several different measures of performance on material, this can give you some idea of which teachers are doing well and which ones aren't. Now, one obviously has to first try to train teachers and get them to improve, but in principle long term substandard performance could certainly be grounds for firing and above average performance ground for raises or bonuses.

oh no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa! Do those GULAGs still exist??? I thought they were done away with!

Re:oh no!

[ettlz]

Whoa! Do those GULAGs still exist??? I thought they were done away with!

All those MP3 files didn't type their contents into those Russian redistribution sites by themselves, you know.

Re:oh no!

[b0s0z0ku]

Whoa! Do those GULAGs still exist??? I thought they were done away with!

The prison camp system started in the 17th century and survived many tsars and the communist regime. Regime change didn't get rid of it, though it may have reduced its severity and the quantity of prisoners sent up. Remember that Siberia has a harsh climate but a lot of natural resources, so people didn't voluntarily go there. The existence of the system was an economic expedient as well as a political one. Also there were sentences of internal exile, where people were (maybe still are) sent to Siberia to live as 'free' citizens but unable to return to any city in Western Russia.

-b.

Prison Camp

[Anonymous Coward]

Siberian Prison Camp is a little hard core for a Bootleg OS. Hope they don't catch me, they might try to genocide my ass or something.

Re:Prison Camp

[jsnipy]

Maybe this will give the RIAA/MPAA the idea to start prison camps in the US. Did I say prison camp, I meant "Happy Camp".

Re:Prison Camp

[Anonymous Coward]

"Reeducation Camp"

Where we make little Johnny and Sue into proper mindless consumers.. er.. morally upright citizens!

Re:Prison Camp

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got the ethnic groups mixed up. Genocide is a German thing - Slavs do ethnic cleansing.

Re:Prison Camp

[slim]

Siberian Prison Camp is a little hard core for a Bootleg OS. Hope they don't catch me, they might try to genocide my ass or something. The phrase "Siberian Prison camp" has some pretty heavy connotations. But the Stalin era ended decades ago.

All we really know is:

• It's a prison -- people are detained there
• It's a camp -- whatever that means in this context?
• It's in Siberia -- a vast and, in places, beautiful, area of land. Cold though. And traditionally somewhere enemies of the state were exiled even before the Russian revolution.

So we don't really know how harsh this punishment will be. It could be anything from a couple of months in an open prison, to several years breaking rocks on a diet of cold poison.

Re:Prison Camp

[Anonymous Coward]

This brings up a fascinating conundrum for Bill Gates. Does he violate his deep seated opposition to piracy (it is after all what made him rich) and support the measure or does he violate his newly purchased reputation as a "great humanitarian" and oppose it?

Re:Prison Camp

[pen]

"Camp" generally implies work camp.

Rediculous solution

[bendodge]

The guy did something wrong, and deserves to be punished, but how in his wildest imagination can Gorbachev think Gates needs to be involved? When somebody steals something you don't call the item manufacturer.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Nicholas Evans]

Last time I checked, software piracy is a copyright issue, not an issue of material theft. Microsoft is not the 'item manufacturer' in this case; they're the copyright holder. As such, Bill Gates is very relevant to this matter.

Re:Rediculous solution

[bendodge]

Please ignore my parent! (I wish I could remove the ability to submit without previewing...)

Re:Rediculous solution

[bendodge]

So sorry - I messed up. (See post below you.)

Re:Rediculous solution

[Kestrelflier]

There's a fashion these days for getting the perpetrator and victim to confront each other. And who's the victim if it isn't Bill Gates?

Re:Rediculous solution

[adamchou]

albeit its against the law to pirate software.... but how can it be morally wrong to use pirated software to teach impoverished children in a manner that provides no financial gain? if anything, this would only bring more business to microsoft as these children grow older and enter the workplace because they spent their adolescent lives using microsoft software. i'm pretty certain most of the students here couldn't afford to buy all that expensive software when they were in college. now imagine living in a country like russia where it would probably take a months worth of wages to buy a full copy of windows xp. i whole heartedly support the idea of providing free software to students for educational purposes by any means possible... and i can't see how most of you don't.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Anonymous Coward]

When somebody steals something you don't call the item manufacturer.

You are right. Why would an item manufacturer, who has sold you an item, retain any interest in what you do with that item you bought? Why does Microsoft have any interest in what this schoolmaster did with the item he bought from Microsoft?

Anyways, I think you know by now that Microsoft can drop this "criminal" infringement case by stating to the court that Microsoft has granted the schoolmaster "license" to have as many copies (of the item he bought) as he and his school have. Gates could fix this, in the particular case, but that will not fix the manner of law that makes copying a crime - a manner of law Gates has sought successfully to foist upon much of the world.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad thing about this is that the punishment dosent fit the crime. Stealing something that costs a few hunder $ dosent fit the punishment of sending you to prison.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Belegothmog]

When somebody steals something you don't call the item manufacturer.

Ah, but Microsoft is the owner. The purchaser just has a license to use the software.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.

In fact, the proper punishment for such a crime would be to have the teacher upgrade to Windows Vista. That'll teach him to pirate ever again in his life.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not stealing dipshit, it's copyright infringement. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Re:Rediculous solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.
It could be a simple option in your user profile settings.
After all, if you are *not* logged in, there is no way to post without previewing.

Re:Rediculous solution

[freeze128]

Well, certainly Microsoft has some sort of Legal department that could be contacted. Why would you go directly to the CEO?

This smells fishy. I bet it's a trap for Bill Gates.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Vintermann]

Why shouldn't he? Gorbachev probably knows Gates.

Inspired students

[RichMan]

Ok so how many north american students are ripping the authentication stickers off school owned Dell machines and keying the phone number to the BSA in as they read this.

Reporting your teacher/principal to the BSA, priceless.

Re:Inspired students

[PPGMD]

Wouldn't work, the school would be able to show that they purchased Windows with the machines by showing the Dell invoices. And even if they were found in non-compliance the BSA tells you how you were in non-compliance and asks you to fix it first.

Re:Inspired students

[eln]

Maybe you won't be able to get your geometry teacher shipped off to Siberia, but you could tie the school up in useless paperwork for weeks or months while they scramble to prove their innocence. Not bad for 10 seconds' work.

Re:Inspired students

[PPGMD]

Not likely BSA audits are more painless then people think. One of my clients underwent a BSA audit, it wasn't nearly as painful as people claim, and they were in the exact situation described, no proof of OEM copy of Windows on hand, these were Windows 98 machines before the COA sticker became common place. They simply pulled up the paperwork to show that they purchased it with the computers, and it was all hunky dory.

Re:Inspired students

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why my school issued computer is a MS Windows machine, that I only use to access the borked school apps, while everything else I do is on a Mac, with no MS software what so ever, and mostly OSS. If the BSA wants to make an issue of it, they can deal with the school lawyers.

Re:Inspired students

[numbski]

You don't understand how much this annoys me. I wouldn't let the BSA in my front door, let alone comply with any "audit". They aren't a government agency, nor a legal authority. They aren't allowed on my property, under any situation, and I've made all of my staff aware of that fact. The answer to BSA, or "Business Software Alliance" is "Please leave our property or we will call the police. This facility runs Linux and Open Source Software." If they don't leave, call the police and have them removed.

End of discussion.

Re:Inspired students

[AlHunt]

You don't understand how much this annoys me. I wouldn't let the BSA in my front door, let alone comply

Thank you. Why anybody would let these people in the door is beyond me. Do they compensate companies for the cost of accommodating this audit? Of course not.

Re:Inspired students

[OhBoy!]

Except that they can and will show up with police and a court order. Do a little googling, there is enough precedent for this.

Re:Inspired students

[megaditto]

Why anybody would let these people in the door is beyond me

Well... Perhaps the BSA auditors would like to hear about Jehovah?

Re:Inspired students

[numbski]

Now that's puzzling. A court order would allow a search by law enforcement, no doubt. But I don't see how they could get permission for they themselves to show up and do a search of my premises. Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, but the logic doesn't follow.

Re:Inspired students

[DrRevotron]

subpoena duce tecum ("dü-s&s-'tE-k&m): a writ commanding a person to produce in court certain designated documents or evidence.

Sure, you can call the police, but that'll be kind of hard if they're the ones that come a'knockin'. It doesn't matter that you use open-source software. What does matter is (in the case of a workplace or other public location) is that you contractually protect yourself from what your employees/customers do with your internet connection.

Re:Inspired students

[Anonymous Coward]

First they ask nice, and if you don't cooperate with them, then they get the court order to do so and show up at your door with US marshals in tow. The US marshals are the key...they're the ones that are authorized to force you to comply with the court order. The BSA representatives are only there because the US marshals aren't qualified enough to recognize what is and isn't complying with a software license.

Re:Inspired students

[numbski]

..and neither is qualified to touch any of my gear. :\

Re:Inspired students

[Max Littlemore]

I think you'd be making a BIG mistake taking that attitude.

Instead of threatening them with police involvement, try inviting them politely in to a special waiting room with modern looking, yet incredibly uncomfortable, furniture and ask them to wait until your company's Microsoft Purchasing Officer is ready to answer their queries.

When it's time to lock up and go home, tell them they are welcome to come again the next business day, or you can call them when you actually hire a Microsft Purchasing Officer if they'd prefer.

Re:Inspired students

[Anonymous Coward]

Btw, it's worth a few seconds to click the BSA's adsense link on this article. Log out first then refresh a few times if it doesn't show up. Makes a few pennies for Slashdot and costs the BSA at the same time.

Good times.

Re:Inspired students

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in Croatia, they come with the inpector from police. And yes, they're not an legal authority, nor an government agency. However, they do have a power to bring police inspector with them and if you protest, they take you for guilty. So basically they're armwrestling people to let them do the audit, or face the challenges of proving innocence in the court.

Re:Inspired students

[just_another_sean]

I heard differently from this guy.

Dear Bill Gates:

[Peter Trepan]

We wish to send convicted pirate to Siberia for cracking Windows Vista, but can not afford police. Please to apprehend him personally.

Re:Dear Bill Gates:

[Anonymous Coward]

PS,

18 year old beautiful Russian teens are waiting for you come now

Missing the bigger issue

[gasmonso]

This isn't a case about Microsoft going after a teacher. The real issue here is the pressure that the US puts on countries that want to join the World Trade Organization. The hypocrisy here is ridiculous. Look at China and the rampant piracy there.

But this leads to another issue and that is pricing. The cost of software is way out of reach for most of these countries. Piracy becomes the only alternative (besides open source of course).

gasmonso

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to me the WTO issue is the bigger issue here. Russia wants to join, so they want to look 'good' to the increasingly corporate-controlled government of the USA. Crackdown on some lowly teacher doing what is done rampantly in the US, show the WTO you're tough on crime. Sure, the software may be overpriced for many budgets, but feeding the beast going under the guise of free-trade may not be the best way to get the software either. "Who can survive in today's economy (or buy and sell), except their country belongs to the WTO (has the mark of the beast)?" The WTO claims to be against human rights abuses. What about opressing the poor? What about the environment? What about national sovereignty? If Microsoft drops their case, Russia looks better because they're being tough on crime still, Microsoft looks more benevolent, and the WTO stays in the shadows. If Microsoft pursues the case, the WTO bullies Russia more.

Russia would do well to consider the advice given by Michael Chabon in "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay": "Forget about what you are escaping from. Reserve your anxiety for what you are escaping to."

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[dario]

The cost of software is way out of reach for most of these countries.

Pricing proprietary commercial software out of reach of a lot of young smart people is a good thing, IMHO. Easy availability of pirated DOS, Windows, compilers, etc. in Eastern Europe is why I only ran into Unix/Linux in college; something I wish happened a hell of a lot earlier.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Having read more posts and more articles, I restate what I said earlier, with the same cowardice (I really just don't want to deal with yet another account and password).

If Bill Gates intervenes and gets Russia to stop prosecuting, Russia looks better because they're being tough on crime, and it was the external influence of Microsoft not Russia that allowed the defendant to go free. Microsoft looks more benevolent, and the WTO stays in the shadows. If Gates chooses to let Russia run its own affairs, the WTO can continue to bully Russia more if Russia doesn't send this poor chap to a winter wasteland "happy camp".

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[zippthorne]

Far too much is made of foreign trade in discussing *any* country's activities. It typically hovers around 10% of GDP, which while not exactly insignificant, in no way contraindicates a nation surviving and prospering almost entirely on its own.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why there's no really compelling reason to join the WTO, other than perception, peer pressure, and bullying.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[TheNetAvenger]

The hypocrisy here is ridiculous. Look at China and the rampant piracy there.


So young and so trusting uh?

Here is how China works my friend. Bush's little economic disaster has made the US borrow billions of money, guess the country we borrowed it from?

Yes, China, very good. So, when it comes to economic trade policy, how tough can you be with your own banker? Not very tough if you don't want them to call in the chips and collapse your economy.

The story is actually a lot more twisted, as the money we borrowed from China for our War and wartime tax cuts for the wealthy has created a new level of middle class in China, and thus, now in the world of energy, specifical fossil fuels, China's demand is growing very fast, and they are becoming our biggest competitor in the oil world, and this helps keep the oil prices high because the US no longer has any leverage, when China will gladly come in and buy whatever they can at the prices OPEC demands.

We aren't the big client for Oil, nor the future big client for oil, that we once were, and this is mainly because of the money the US has borrowed from China, raising their economy.

So when you are paying maybe even $5.00 a gallon at the pump, and China is stealing jobs, software, whatever they want, just think how proud you are of the Bush Administration for giving America the biggest sellout in history.

PS We need a non-corporate President to fix this crap, and I suggest looking somewhere in the party of Harry Truman.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[Anonymous Coward]

That is because all the cowards go and hide their servers/software in Russia to avoid copyright laws.
That is where AllofMp3.com is located and all the fanatics who support that stupid shit.

Only a matter of time before allofmp3.com is gone and Russia clamps down on rampant piracy there.

Cold hard truth ...."you wanna play ball with the big boys; than you gonna have to play by the rules or else we'll send you back to the playground with the girls to whine"

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[megaditto]

Stealing jobs? How the fuck do you steal a job, anyways.

Regardless, you say they could "call in the chips and collapse our economy?" How about we flush the chips down the crapper and collapse their economy? (because that's what would happen after we refuse to pay).

When it comes down to it, both economies will probably collapse, but we will have gotten 20 years' worth of free stuff out of them, and we can rebuild faster, knowing that every family in our country already has a computer, a car, and a house to live in. Plus the best military and scientists the borrowed money can buy :)

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[TheNetAvenger]

Regardless, you say they could "call in the chips and collapse our economy?" How about we flush the chips down the crapper and collapse their economy? (because that's what would happen after we refuse to pay).


Our entire foreign policy with China is revolved around our dependence on them financially. Whether you look at the Trillions we owe them or the import/export discrepancies. China would suffer without us; however, our economy is more of a backbone of our society and would not only bankrupt, but distroy the capitalism at the foundation of the American infrastructure.

Seriously, go check out current policy issues with China and what leaders of both sides of the aisle have to say with regard to how China gets a free pass because of our mistakes, which will continue to create our greatest competition in the Global economy for the next few decades.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[Anonymous Coward]

The funniest thing about the WTO is that the US refuses to abide by any rulings against them... What a joke.

Re:Missing the bigger issue

[zlogic]

I live in Russia and I think this is the first time someone is actually prosecuted for pirating software. Usually the police simply raid CD duplicating factories and warehouses and confiscate CDs.
The piracy here is so bad that I can buy a DVD with Vista and Office 2007 right here in my university (MEPhI). The irony is that Microsoft opened a research center in MEPhI and
1) every time Microsoft guys go to work they see pirated CDs but don't do anything
2) people here could get a legal copy of Vista for free through msdnaa but paying $3 for a non-genuine DVD with Windows AND Office is much easier
So MS tries to show Russia that if you pirate software, you may end up in jail. Banks and big companies probably buy Dells and HPs (with Windows pre-installed) so they want smaller organizations and ordinary people to fear piracy.

imprisonment?

[User 956]

If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.

Imprisonment? I thought the russian government just poisoned everyone with Polonium 210 these days.

Re:imprisonment?

[siLoOfMisfortune]

Then fly you out on a nice vacation to London.

Re:imprisonment?

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

Only if they're outside Russia.

Re:imprisonment?

[jbourj]

Ahh, but that costs the Russians around $12 million dollars. In contrast, they probably only spend a few dollars a day to keep someone shivering in Siberia (and even less to have them shot). I don't think the IMF would approve of that expensive a ritual!

Explain this to me

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

This is a criminal matter and not civil? What can bill gates do about it?

Re:Explain this to me

[matts-reign]

If bill gates says "I gave that software to him; he didn't pirate it", he no longer committed a crime.

Re:Explain this to me

[droopycom]

Yeah... and Bill Gates just commited perjury...cool... Send Bill to the Gulag !!!

Re:Explain this to me

[ObiWanStevobi]

From the article:

However, in this case we ask you to show mercy and withdraw your complaint against Alexander Ponosov

Unless Gorbachev is confused, it would appear MS is taking legal action against the man. Pretty much suing for damages from the act of piracy, it would seem.

Re:Explain this to me

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

I realize this but what does this have to do with being sent to prison?

Re:Explain this to me

[vertinox]

What can bill gates do about it?

Pay the customary $50 bribe to the police and the $100 bribe to the judge.

Re:Explain this to me

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

Even the DMCA could get a copyright infringer sent to prison--it's just that the RIAA & MPAA don't play that card much, for various reasons. Apparently, Russia has passed legislation tougher than the DMCA.

Re:Explain this to me

[try_anything]

Maybe you have to go to prison if you can't pay, like a debtor's prison. If so, it's more evidence that Russia went straight from communist industrialism to 19th-century Dickensian industrialism.

The Russian attitude seems to be, "Socialism, capitalism, who cares? As long as everyone is miserable and oppressed except for a few obscenely powerful big shots, then Russia is strong like bull and will survive in this nasty world."

Six Words from Bill

[StikyPad]

Mr. Gorbachev: Tear down that firewall.

wrong tree

[Tom]

Talk about balking up the wrong tree.

Mr. Gorbachev, with all due respect, you should have checked for Gates past before making yourself ridiculous.

Re:wrong tree

[pilkul]

That was written thirty years ago and targeted at people much less poor and ignorant than some Russian provincial schoolteacher. It hardly rules out the possibility that Gates may be merciful in this case.

Re:wrong tree

[Tom]

I failed to see the part where Gates said that he's only talking to the rich ones and the poor ones are ok with him to copy "his" basic.

Don't be fooled by his foundation. That's a long tradition of robber barons to clear their names in the public eye. It's cheap, too. Steal 50 bio. from everyone, spend 5 bio. for a good cause and suddenly you're a hero.

Re:wrong tree

[pilkul]

Any way you spin it, anti-competitive practices aren't on the same level as theft. And it's more like "get 50 billion from everyone, give 49.98 billion to a good cause" since all his money except 10 million to each of his children is going to be donated to the foundation.

Gates is not only giving away vast amounts, he's also revolutionizing philanthropy with his strategy of results-oriented investments, and inspiring many of the other ultra-rich to donate. His gifts have already saved thousands of lives from disease, and over the decades that his foundation will exist, the vaccine research it is funding may save millions. I'm not saying he's a "hero" since that term usually implies putting oneself at personal risk, but there's no doubt he's doing a vast amount of good. You are being short-sighted and petty.

Re:wrong tree

[Tom]

You are being short-sighted and petty. Maybe petty, yes. I doubt the short-sighted part. I don't have the links handy and I'm too lazy to dig them out, but the Gates Foundation has been critized as much as hailed, and there was some evidence for its research and AIDS vaccination "grants" to be veiled investments into pharma companies that Gates holds shares in.

I'm sure his money is doing good things. I'm not sure that the same money in the hands of other people wouldn't be able to do much better things. There are enough people on the ground in Africa who have made a difference with tiny fractions of that budget.

And yes, illegal business practices resulting in monopoly rents aren't theft. They're worse. At least theft is a zero-sum game. Monopoly (in the real world) is a game where the general public loses more than the monopolist gains.

Re:wrong tree

[pilkul]

Yes, the Gates foundation has been much criticized, but I've yet to see much there that amounts to more than cavils about certain details of the investments. I would say there's criticism mainly because Gates is very famous, and because he's challenging some of the usual ways of doing things in philanthropy.

there was some evidence for its research and AIDS vaccination "grants" to be veiled investments into pharma companies that Gates holds shares in.

How could Gates be somehow planning to monetarily profit by dumping all his money into a one-way sinkhole? These kinds of allegations just don't make sense. I've never heard of anyone making money by giving it away, except perhaps as political donations (which Gates conspicuously is not making any of).

I'm sure his money is doing good things. I'm not sure that the same money in the hands of other people wouldn't be able to do much better things. There are enough people on the ground in Africa who have made a difference with tiny fractions of that budget.

The key word being "tiny fractions of that budget". The more money you have, the harder it is to allocate it efficiently. The opportunities for inefficiency and corruption increase along with the stakes. Gates' money is not being used perfectly, but don't be quick to assume someone else could do better. It is very very easy to donate money in Africa in ways that are not only inefficient but actually counterproductive.

And yes, illegal business practices resulting in monopoly rents aren't theft. They're worse. At least theft is a zero-sum game.

Theft is zero-sum?! What about the security costs and transactions that aren't done because of the risk it represents? The externalities of theft are much worse than abusive monopolies, assuming the theft is done on the same scale. Enron and Worldcom did far more damage to the American economy than Microsoft did.

Important nuance: small village school

[zpodcaster]

Microsoft's asking for RUR 266000, i.e. USD 8886 according to this. http://lenta.ru/story/ponosoff/. An important nuance: it's a small village school, which would probably not have a budget for this. But I think in any case, they should use Linux.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps using Linux is an affordable idea, but it is not ultimately practical, given that most software is not written for Linux, and there is not always an alternative program that can be used to replace a windows-environment program.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[91degrees]

and there is not always an alternative program that can be used to replace a windows-environment program.

For education purposes there usually is. They'll probably want basic word processing and internet. And while StarOffice may not be the greatest office suite, it's more than adequate. Firefox is certainly a decent application.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[b0s0z0ku]

And while StarOffice may not be the greatest office suite, it's more than adequate. Firefox is certainly a decent application.

How good is Cyrillic/Russian support in those applications? Not just for fonts, but menus and help screens...

-b.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[Simon80]

Sounds like FUD to me, especially, like the first reply says, in an educational environment. Even more so if I think about what the computers on my local elementary school run.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[Ash-Fox]

I don't use StarOffice, but I have used the Russian OpenOffice.org suite has always worked very well for me. And yes, there is a Russian Firefox available too.

At least this software doesn't get random 'updates' that suddenly break part of the dialogs so they appear in English and Russian partially.

Re:Important nuance: small village school

[shutdown -p now]

The problem is that the secondary school programme - handed down by the Ministry of Education - does not say "word processing". It says "Microsoft Windows" and "Microsoft Word"; not the least thanks to Microsoft active lobbying, but also because people who write those programmes simply don't know any better ("what's Linux?.."). So the schools don't really have much choice there.

A better idea:

[Anonymous Coward]

Send Bill Gates to a Siberian prison camp.

Someone should have taken that bastard out decades ago. ( not saying i was/am going too, just that it should have happened.. )

Total Cost Of Ownership (or theft)

[Anonymous Coward]

Add: Anal violation in a Siberian prison camp

Gorbachev

[reverseengineer]

Perhaps the architect of glasnost should now push for "openness" in software as well?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Gates just Declined

[AftanGustur]

In an astonishing move, Mr. Gates has rejected the proposal!

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

Re:Gates just Declined

[DogDude]

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

Did you read the article you posted? It's a CRIMINAL case, being brought by local law enforcement, not Bill Gates, you dolt. Besides, if MS did call up the local prosecutor to ask them to back down, then MS would be *flooded* with requests for amnesty from people all over the planet. I think that if anybody, Gorbachev is going a bit soft in the head. It was a ridiculous request.

Re:Gates just Declined

[spiritraveller]

Were he to call up the prosecutor and ask them not to go forward, it would be a clear statement that Russia is a banana republic. A rich guy can just make them fall over and do what he wants? Well, probably it's true, and Gorbachev obviously sees it that way.

But the article you linked mentions that Putin has already said that prosecuting this guy is ridiculous. If Putin can use some pressure to stop the prosecution, it makes him look good. If you make Putin look good, the doors open even wider for you in Russia.

Gates and MS are not dummies. This will end up working out quite well for them.

Re:Gates just Declined

[AftanGustur]

Duhh, think a tiny bit and you'l see that this is actually a *political* case.

Russia has been trying for years to join the WTO and the USA has been blocking it's attempts, mainly on the bases that it doesn't enforce US copyright (When a commercial entity can manipulate foreign policy in this way, there is a problem) and this copyright case in mainly to demonstrate the will of the Russian government to enforce copyright and the said case is seen as a test example.

The sad thing is that the teacher, from a remote village, bought the computers pre-installed with windows so his claim that he didn't know that Windows was "pirated", seems perfectly plausible.

I think you will have to search hard among educated people before you find anyone that thinks the teacher should be sent to the Goulag in Siberia for this "crime".

Re:Gates just Declined

[hitmanWilly1337]

This is the most shocking thing ive heard since someone told me that the sky was blue!

Re:Gates just Declined

[writermike]

In an astonishing move, Mr. Gates has rejected the proposal!

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

Perhaps, but he _had to_ decline. And Gorbachev is the one to blame. Had he done it privately, perhaps MS would have done something. But in this public way, Gates can NOT accept. Yeah, it looks really, really shitty that he declined -- and I think it's really, really shitty -- but had Gates accepted, he would have looked soft on piracy at the very moment he's telling everyone he's not under any circumstances.

Blame MS all you want for our having to deal with this B.S. in the first place, but Gorbachev condemned this man, imho.

Re:Gates just Declined

[Anonymous Coward]

The previous reply to your post explains more of the facts of the case. I would be interested in how you think the fact the computers came pre-installed with Windows bears on the situation. Anyways, Bill Gates, by his inaction, has shown he has no moral authority. And without moral authority there can be no real authority. You may think it is ridiculous. I think it is very important. I am glad to know now the measure of this man, Bill Gates. He is much shorter than I would have thought. He is the same as the person I saw (in person) shilling for his company at a University lecture. He was supposed to be talking about technology and the future (in general, this was an academic setting). But all he could do was talk to sell, sell, sell his company. I thought it was sad, even if he has a lot of money, he is so tied to his company he can't just talk about tech without needing to sell his business. But I now know not only is he tied to his company, he also is blinded by his need to be right about copyright in all cases that he cannot show leniency towards a single individual who is a schoolmaster.

Re:Gates just Declined

[DogDude]

I certainly don't think that the teacher should be sent to a gulag. I think it's pretty extreme. I don't even think it warrants any jail time. I was just pointing out that Bill Gates has nothing to do with this case, personally, nor could he, nor should he be involved with it. This whole thing is ridiculous. It's like calling Jack Welch if you're arrested for stealing a TV.

Re:Gates just Declined

[curunir]

What Gates should have done was to try to encourage Russian authorities to use this publicity as a catalyst for cracking down on people selling pirated software. He should have publicly stated that he thought an appropriate punishment for unknowingly purchasing stolen software should be nothing more than a somewhat stiff fine and that the attention of law enforcement and the harshest punishments should go to those supplying the pirated software. This is the tact that Microsoft employs in the US with their program of selling genuine copies of Windows at a reduced price to anyone with a pirate copy who gives them information on the person who sold them that copy.

With this strategy, he'd come off as supporting the teacher, who obviously has the sympathies of most of the country. He'd also help focus law enforcement on distributors rather than consumers...something that is much more likely to reduce piracy. As it is now, this situation makes it not out of the realm of possiblity that Russia will reduce the punishments for copyright violations or even reduce the protections offered to copyright holders.

Re:Gates just Declined

[danpsmith]

In an astonishing move, Mr. Gates has rejected the proposal!

I don't find that very astonishing as I have a very dim view of MS as an organization, especially when it comes to piracy. God knows nothing is worse than pirating a bit of software, even if you aren't aware that you were doing it. But check this out:

"Mr. Ponosov's case is a criminal case and as such was initiated and investigated by the public prosecutor's office in Russia," said Microsoft, whose European operations are based in Paris. "We are sure that the Russian courts will make a fair decision."

The company added: "We do respect the Russian government's position on the importance of protecting intellectual property rights."

That I find a little bit more shocking. They respect the position of throwing a man in jail for running something he probably didn't even know was pirated. Look for MS to back any talk of intellectual property "infringement" being declared a criminal offense based on this stance. Only a matter of time before they will be throwing people in jail for listening to the new Britney Spears without an Apple Itunes or Microsoft Zune (tm) license.

Things like this make me happy that I'm going to soon be completely on the right side of openness. After I rescue my data to an external drive I'm going to turn from a former Windows "pirate" to a full-fledged Linux user, who knows that software piracy isn't stealing, especially when you CAN get it for free. HD-DVDs or not, I'm Linux from here on out.

More the system than the individual

[edwardpickman]

This is more about "Russia" using pirated software than the teacher. The teacher is being made the scapegoat for the system. What he's really asking for is Microsoft to look the other way when Russia uses their unlicensed software to benefit the country. It's a sticky question and should be handled more from a marketing standpoint. The problem is just how big a market is Russia for legitimate copies of Microsoft software? If nearly all is pirated and the Russian government is using classrooms to promote it's use then it's benefitting Russia but not Microsoft should Microsoft stand by and let it happen? The teacher shouldn't be prosecuted no matter what because it's fairly obvious officials were aware he was using and I'm sure many are doing the same. The point ultimately is if Russia can't aford or is unwilling to pay for the software should they still have the rights to use it? Does it create an unfair advantage when they have workers learning to use software on pirate copies that will in turn work for a fraction of the cost of US and Europeon programmers? These type of practices put the west at a massive disadvantage. The company I work with wants to outsource our current joint venture to foreign programmers to save money. I'm against it but I got overruled. I'd rather see people paid properly for their work where ever they are but more and more companies will be taking advantage of cheap foreign programmers. Eventually to compete most will have no choice.

Re:More the system than the individual

[Anonymous Coward]

You say you'd like to see people paid properly for their work where ever they are, but you don't want companies to take advantage of cheap foreign programmers? So you'd rather those foreign programmers starve than work for what they likely consider a lot of money?

Don't think you're helping anyone out by turning your nose up at people being paid less in developing countries than in the US and Europe. The cheaper cost of labor is what's enticing companies to invest in developing countries and that's what's improving the living standards of millions of people around the world.

Re:More the system than the individual

[shadowbearer]

So how many divisions does Microsoft have?

  SB

Re:More the system than the individual

[botik32]

I think you're right... on the side of Russia, it was a political attempt to force M$ to acknowledge and accept pirated use of its copyrighted assets in Russia. I mean, let's find a guy and threaten to send him to Gulag to show how bad Microsoft is, and maybe they will turn soft on us.

The fact that one guy will be sent to prison seems of little importance to Russia's current regime.

Seems this guy's fate is of little importance to BillG as well. I guess Microsoft saw through the bluff and called upon it. It's basically a game of chess with humans as pawns.

It's a pity that simple people have to suffer like this.

Dear Mister Gate

[Anonymous Coward]

you are friend no? i like friend and you microsoft software. if you like i upload picture of my sister make sex to internet for you.

i am use your software for free because we very poor in kazakhstan. if sue for pirate i have my hand cut off and not upload pictures of my sister make sex. i am very poor to buy software and only own 1 goat but if you like i upload picture of make sex with goat. you like huh?

you friend,

Borat Sagdiyev

Re:Dear Mister Gate

[ettlz]

Dear "Borat",

Following your offer to "upload picture of make sex with goat", please find attached a copy of hello.jpg. I trust this clarifies our position in this matter.

Furthermore, I must caution you to stop sending these letters. We have fifty boxes in our office each claiming to contain one hundred autographed photos of Steve Jobs. We haven't the balls to open these things, but we're more than willing to pay for international postage.

And, by the way, I think you've got the wrong guy. I'm Mr. Gate from West Virginia and I run a detox center for stressed-out iPods.

Sincerely,

bunch of assholes

[DaMattster]

Microsoft is nothing but one big bunch of assholes. How much money is enough? Go after the big fish. I reported a website selling downloads of Microsoft software and Microsoft did absolutely nothing. The website is still up! Instead, they want to fry a school teacher. What next, a minister or priest?

Re:bunch of assholes

[Anonymous Coward]

"What next, a minister or priest?"

why not?...the first are supporting stupid wars and the second likes to play with kids.

Don't petition Microsoft

[gd23ka]

It would make more sense to petition the Russian Parole Board if they still have it.
Microsoft for the moment has no expansion plans into humanitarianism.

Re:Don't petition Microsoft

[b0s0z0ku]

It would make more sense to petition the Russian Parole Board if they still have it.

Or just collect to bribe the warden US$50k to allow the inmate to 'disappear'?

-b.

Re:Don't petition Microsoft

[hitmanWilly1337]

Microsoft for the moment has no expansion plans into humanitarianism.

Thank God. Can you imagine?

"Windows Genuine Eating Advantage" The package won't open unless it verifies the serial number with MS.
Microsoft cracks down on "sanitation pirates."

Link

[Anonymous Coward]

to wikinews: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_goes_after_t eacher_in_Russia%2C_Putin_and_Gorbachov_protest

Microsoft declined

[HappyDrgn]

From another source, it would seem Microsoft is not interested in helping Gorbachev...

"Microsoft on Monday rebuffed a public appeal by Mikhail Gorbachev for its chairman, Bill Gates, to intervene on behalf of a Russian school principal charged with software piracy." - http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/05/business/pi rate.php

10K of Kubuntu doesn't scratch the surface

[postbigbang]

Try 10M of Kubuntu.

This presumes of course that there is enough hardware. There is not.

The old koan that states that you can't satisfy hunger by looking at a picture of a fish applies here.

This is actually part of the same campaign that's trying to make Gates, his foundations (and those cute pictures of Patty Stonecipher) all make us think nice things in the light of the disaster of Zune, Vista, and many other things Microsoft.

Mod me down as flamebait, but I'm merely the oxygen, not the spark. Microsoft is the fuel. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Re:10K of Kubuntu doesn't scratch the surface

[HiThere]

10K of Kubuntu is quite sufficient. If you have enough blank CDs to make copies from. Copying Kubuntu is not only allowed, it's encouraged.

Re:10K of Kubuntu doesn't scratch the surface

[suffe]

The old koan that states that you can't satisfy hunger by looking at a picture of a fish applies here.

How about an image of a badger?

Nice PR stunt

[ingo23]

According to the Russian news sources, Microsoft withdrew the charges early in the process. Who actually installed pirated copies - nobody knows, the vendor denies it, but I would suspect that most likely the PCs were sold with the OS installed or it was installed by the vendor (unofficially, of course) shortly after delivery.

So, with all due respect to Mr. Gorbachev, he is talking to a wrong guy.

The teacher was a Notes user....

[LibertineR]

This, Gates could not forgive.

Re:The teacher was a Notes user....

[Anonymous Coward]

He also had a shitty name...

Using Windows is like having sex with a prostitute

[bigpat]

You get what you pay for, but you never know what virus you are going to get. Better to get it for free with a faithful and honest Ubuntu.

Seriously, at some point when they start threatening you with being sent to prison in Siberia.... I think it is proving a bit too dangerous to be using Microsoft products. It just isn't remotely worth this type of bullshit.

Piracy == Gulag

[PachmanP]

Is it just me or is it ridiculous to jail people much less send them to the gulag for software piracy? Even agreeing that it's wrong, it shouldn't be something you do hard time for. Seriously folks...

Re:Piracy == Gulag

[b0s0z0ku]

Is it just me or is it ridiculous to jail people much less send them to the gulag for software piracy? Even agreeing that it's wrong, it shouldn't be something you do hard time for

Well, this is Russia, which had the infamous Section 58 law up until 30 years ago or so. One of the subsections punished "counterrevolutionary thoughts" with either death or a long prison sentence (25 years in the camps IIRC).

-b.

What is wrong with people?

[turgid]

Seriously, what is wrong with this guy?

Nowadays we have Free and Open Source Software that is "free and in speech and beer", better quality, more flexible, more useful and more user-friendly than Microsoft's stuff.

There is no excuse for helping yourself to Microsoft's software, other than ignorance and laziness, especially in education, where being a virus vector and consumer of Project documents are not primary concerns.

Shout loud, let the world know.

Re:What is wrong with people?

[drinkypoo]

Seriously, what is wrong with this guy?

If he is to be believed, nothing. He purchased these computers with Windows on them. He is a schoolteacher. Unless he is some sort of computing instructor, how do you expect him to know that he must have a holographic-thread-equipped certificate of authenticity for each computer?

There is no excuse for helping yourself to Microsoft's software, other than ignorance and laziness, especially in education, where being a virus vector and consumer of Project documents are not primary concerns.

As soon as you can show that he did so, you'll have an argument. We don't know what went on in that court, other than a teacher potentially being sent to siberia for an alleged act of piracy, which is fucking ridiculous even if he did violate copyright himself. However, again assuming he is telling the truth, the person or people who actually did violate copyright work for the shop where he bought the PCs.

Check yourself, laddie.

Re:What is wrong with people?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very possible that the computer he used would not run FOSS...I have found that some of the newer cheapo mother boards from Taiwan require a firmware load for the onboard ethernet drivers. As we all know firmware loaded devices are still having a lot of trouble getting Linux support.

My brother recently bought a cheapo athlon 64 with on board everything and it definitely is not supported even with the latest Ubuntu The video is supported so is the ide sata and pci but the on board net firmware load is not. Therefore it is essentially useless for communication purposes without Windows.

The Microsoft hardware "partner" cartel is again flexing it's muscles with hardware manufactures to not release specs. Even Intel is not releasing specs for on board wireless devices and ethenet chip firmware.

My point is that as well as bullying people who need computers Microsoft is also bullying the hell out of hardware and firmware suppliers..This situation will only change if enough pressure is applied by trade organizations and individual States to finally break up the international computer hardware/firmware cartels sponsored by and Lorded over by Microsoft.

The United States Government has not got the balls to do it anymore, and has been invaded by lobbyists from Redmond to such an extent that it will take an international effort to accomplish this necessary event. After all having one cartel dictating the future of high tech is like having a single company hold the exclusive rights to the printing press!

Re:What is wrong with people?

[zakezuke]

There is no excuse for helping yourself to Microsoft's software, other than ignorance and laziness, especially in education, where being a virus vector and consumer of Project documents are not primary concerns.

From TFA, the guy bought machines with windows on them. That's a pretty good excuse. If you've seen the russian bootleg edition of windows you'd notice they look professional. I would say they look more professional than many PCs sold here... esp ones that don't include anything to sugest they came with windows except a little sticker.

In fact, at least in America, Microsoft offered free licenses for software if one got their product through a vendor and thought they were legit so long as they provided infomation as to where they got their software from. I.e. if "Joe's computer" sold you a machine with windows, and it wasn't legit, you got free windows for being a MS-Rat.

The problem with this program... no bugger can tell by looking at a PC whether or not it's legit or not. The only way an end user might have a clue is the WGA warning, which just so happens to not apear on specialy produced pirated editions of microsoft windows corp pro.

Lazy or ignorant? My ass! You have to be freaking diligent to verify every single license key you have is legit, a task only microsoft can do, and even then you run the risk of their database being wrong.

Re:What is wrong with people?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lazy or ignorant? My ass! You have to be freaking diligent to verify every single license key you have is legit, a task only microsoft can do, and even then you run the risk of their database being wrong.

...which is a very good reason to avoid Microsoft software completely.

Re:What is wrong with people?

[zakezuke]

Lazy or ignorant? My ass! You have to be freaking diligent to verify every single license key you have is legit, a task only microsoft can do, and even then you run the risk of their database being wrong.

...which is a very good reason to avoid Microsoft software completely.

I use word, excel, and photoshop on a regular basis. I like linux, I do run linux, as well as other FOSS applications.

But... clearly microsoft isn't going to back down from this teacher... so perhaps the OSS community can write a nice letter to Mr. Mikhail Gorbachev and see about getting Russia in on OSS in schools as an alternative to the gulag.

He didn't know

[cdrguru]

The primary problem here is "He didn't know he was committing a crime." If we would like the world outside the US and Western Europe to join the rest of the world anytime soon, people have to understand that even if there is no "physical object" it isn't correct to just copy it.

Now, this particular case of enforcement might be a bit over the ability of the offender to pay. However, that is besides the point. The problem is that much of Russia probably doesn't understand. Or, if you pay attention to the Internet, much of Russia probably doesn't care, either.

This isn't just about mega-corporations squeezing the last time from people. This is the whole concept of "intellectual property", rights, restrictions and licensing. These folks probably wouldn't know (or care) what the rules for GPL software are either. So this is not something that does not affect those hating the MPAA and RIAA. It affects anyone that creates something and does not release it completely without restriction to the public domain.

GPL is a restricted and legally obligating license and does not fall under the idea of releasing something completely without restriction to the public domain. Creative Commons licensing is not (usually) the same as releasing to the public domain. BSD licensing is closer but still not the same as "without restriction" in the public domain.

Without some education, these people that just don't know they are doing something wrong will continue and teach children to grow up and violate copyright, the GPL, Creative Commons and every other sort of license you can imagine. Is educating them by sending them to a prison came correct? Maybe not. But just writing it off isn't correct either.

Re:He didn't know

[tnhtnh]

I tried the 'oh! I didnt know' excuse when i got caught in Amsterdam for doing some not-so-legal drugs. It didnt work - nor should his excuse in the aforementioned case above.

Re:He didn't know

[b0s0z0ku]

Without some education, these people that just don't know they are doing something wrong will continue and teach children to grow up and violate copyright, the GPL, Creative Commons and every other sort of license you can imagine. Is educating them by sending them to a prison came correct? Maybe not.

MAYBE not? Uhm, definitely not. Maybe a fine or some community service may be appropriate. But taking the guy away from his family and pupils for years for a crime committed without mens rea - he had bought the computers with pirated Windows already installed - is completely inappropriate. As a Pole whose family members died in Siberia during WW II, I find the whole thing reprehensible and disproportionate.

-b.

Re:He didn't know

[Constantine Evans]

From the article I read, the defence of "I didn't know" in this case was due to him claiming that he had bought the computers with Windows preinstalled, and didn't know that the vendor had used illegal copies of Windows, not that he didn't know that copying Windows was illegal - a very different matter, regardless of whether he was telling the truth.

Re:He didn't know

[muuh-gnu]

> If we would like the world outside the US and Western Europe to join the rest of the world

Since the US and Europe are 4 to 5 times smaller than everything else out there, they cant be seen as the "rest" of the world.

> people have to understand that even if there is no "physical object" it isn't correct to just copy it.

This is not a natural given fact of life, but a matter of principle and culture. If your culture does not restrict copying and your fellow man do not condone it, there is _NO_ obvious reason not to do it yourself.

This reason also never existed in the US and Europe, but only in recent times it was introduced as a legal construct _only_ and without any democratic backing. In the US and western europe everybody still would copy Windows without paying for it if.

So you are actually asking the rest of the world to remove their people habitual right to copy which existed for ages and to get down to the US and WE level of mass punishements and legal fear for something people will do anyway?

> Without some education

You sir, are an arrogant prick. Do you really believe the "educated" US citizens would respect copyright without constant legal threats and force against those who chose not to "respect" it?

> these people that just don't know they are doing something wrong will continue and teach children to grow up and violate copyright,

Copyright is, i repeat myself, not a natural law everybody instinctively understands. It has to be enforced _forcibly_ by the state, and this state of force and legal threat has to be held up, since the copyright system would collapse the very moment there is no more force to back it up.

Re:He didn't know

[DimGeo]

Check the article. The guy bought the computers with Windows pre-installed.

Re:He didn't know

[fucksl4shd0t]

Oh hell, even flogging is better than this. Then he just walks away with a few scars, a horrible hour or two of life experience, gets some pity pussy, and goes back to work.

And yes, I think Gorbachev is the right person to be making a fuss about this. He's gone all human-rights-sappy since the iron curtain got pulled back, and I think that's a good thing. He's just asking Gates to show a soul, and Gates is adding more evidence onto the pile that indicates humans don't have souls.

However, the question that comes to mind, since Putin has said something, is will Russia be looking at correcting the obvious flaw in their legal system? Maybe this is a political move by Russia to show what unchecked enforcement of "intellectual property" looks like? Now would be a good time for Putin to screw up and say "Isn't this what Bush was asking us to do?"

Re:He didn't know

[fucksl4shd0t]

Copyright is, i repeat myself, not a natural law everybody instinctively understands.

I'll keep that in mind next time my 8 year old daughter says "He stole my idea!"

(Think about it, that's what copyright and patent is all about. "He stole my idea!" Yes, I consider these laws childish and abusive)

Re:He didn't know

[rohan972]

people have to understand that even if there is no "physical object" it isn't correct to just copy it.

You are correct. To just copy it is selfishness. They ought to share it with others too.

In Soviet Russia

[towsonu2003]

Ordinary people go after Microsoft...

Re:In Soviet Russia

[gr8dude]

In SOVIET Russia, pirates sue YOU!

Dan Sokol is my hero

[Harmonious Botch]

As best I can tell from reading the link in parent post, he appears to be the first person on record to pirate MS software.

Re:Dan Sokol is my hero

[IflyRC]

So you put criminals on a pedestal?

Re:Dan Sokol is my hero

[brianosaurus]

Only so we can look up their dresses... :)

[bitch]

[SilentOneNCW]

I like how I bust my ass and write a paragraph long summary that actually explains the issues behind the case and what both Putin and Gorbachev have said about it, and it's still lounging in 'pending' while this one liner sits pretty on /. [/bitch]

Re:[bitch]

[eneville]

I like how I bust my ass and write a paragraph long summary that actually explains the issues behind the case and what both Putin and Gorbachev have said about it, and it's still lounging in 'pending' while this one liner sits pretty on /.[/bitch] /. editors are just lazy people. they only approve things that they think are interesting. how about you follow up here with the article you were waiting to get approved just so that i can read it.

just incase u missed it

[Anonymous Coward]

he is no longer a leader in the soviet union...

Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[Sargeant Slaughter]

Obviously Bill Gates has no control over the Russian judicial system. However, Gorbachev's appeal is more to show the connection between big business and governments around the world. While it may not do anything legally, it certainly paints M$ iin a bad light (and Putin). This is perhaps our only way of fighting powerful corporate interests. We call out the REAL culprits and hurt their image (and perhaps profits) with an expose. If we want to be successful we have to use the media to fight these companies and their desctructive practices. Of course M$ will try to distance themselves from the case.

If this teacher has the backing of people like Gorbachev, I doubt he will spend any time in a gulag. I am a lot more concerned about the poeple who never make it into the headlines...

Re:Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[gregorio]

We call out the REAL culprits and hurt their image (and perhaps profits) with an expose.

The real culprit is the guy that did something against the law while living in a country with a long record of brutallity against criminals and "subversive" people. The real culprit is that culture of "who cares about the law, nothing will happen anyway".

Re:Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[McGiraf]

"Obviously Bill Gates has no control over the Russian judicial system"

lol, riiiigth. Money buy you nothing in non-Soviet russia.

Re:Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[shutdown -p now]

Gorbachev has no political influence in Russia today. He is not liked by most people for his role in the collapse of the USSR, and it doesn't help that he is one of the more prominent figures in opposition to the government and president Putin personally, with the latter's skyrocketing approval rating...

Re:Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[Vintermann]

His domestic influence may be small, but he runs an apparently well-funded think tank, and he helped set up Novaja Gazeta and owns a minority of the shares in it. That's the newspaper Anna Politkovskaja wrote for. Also, he's popular abroad, gets invited to meetings with powerful people... he's probably met Gates already.

Re:Appealing to the wrong place? Or not?

[shutdown -p now]

Novaya Gazeta is considered to be "liberal opposition yellow newspaper" in Russia, in general. Thus, contacts with figures associated with it are more likely to do you a disservice than anything here.

As for popularity abroad, after the whole Litvinenko/Polonium debacle, do you think Russian government cares much?

Putin Running for President of PirateBay

[akpoff]

"It's ridiculous to just arrest a chap for using computers," he said.

In the West ..

[quiberon2]

In the West, this wouldn't be a crime. It would be a civil matter, and the remedy would be in equity; i.e. a judge would require the teacher (or his employer) to pay Microsoft whatever sum of money he deemed appropriate.

Then the teacher could go straight back to teaching, and pay off his debt at some suitable rate as determined by the judge.

Even in the US, Copyright Infringement is only criminal if you do something like unauthorised distribution of the latest Star Wars movie before its release to cinemas.

The summary I submitted...

[SilentOneNCW]

"The Soviets have entered the war -- well, sort of. The BBC has an article about former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who has issued a statement on his website condemning Microsoft's prosecution of Alexander Ponosov, a Russian student, and urging Microsoft head Bill Gates to intercede. Mr Ponosov stands accused of running pirated software on school computers, to the total cost of $10,000. The statement reads "we have great respect for the work of Microsoft's programmers... and are in no way casting doubt on the principle of punishment for intellectual property violations. However, in this case we ask you to show mercy and withdraw your complaint against Alexander Ponosov..." He also reminded Microsoft that under Russian criminal law, the teacher could face "imprisonment in the Siberian camps." This statement echoes Russian President Vladamir Putin's comments earlier this week, who said Microsoft should "go after the distributors, not the users," adding that it was "ridiculous to just arrest a chap for using computers.""

Re:The summary I submitted...

[SilentOneNCW]

Except I actually put in a closing anchor... Damn you HTML!

Missing the biggest part of the picture

[MikeRT]

Why is it that no one insisted on Russia being systematically "deSovietized" the way that the post-WWII Axis, Afghanistan and Iraq have been cleaned up? Why aren't the leaders who participated in the gulags, etc. hanging from gallows? Where are the human rights trials? The Soviet Union was as bad or worse in the number of its people that it murdered than the Nazi regime. In fact, despite the cries of "Fascism!" the Italian Fascists were certifiably peaceniks in the numbers they killed compared to either the Nazis or the Soviets. In many respects, the Soviet Union was one if not the worst regime in the 20th century.

Things like this are a left over from the Soviet era. If the Russian people were smart, they would learn to get over their bullshit nationalism and repudiate their "Soviet glory days" with a vengeance by hanging the Communists and abolishing all of the last traces of Communist rule from Russia.

The real issue, people, is that the Russian government has not fundamentally changed since the fall of the USSR. Why are people being sent to Siberia, especially for such a petty crime? I could understand violent crime, such as armed robbery, rape or murder, but simple theft or piracy?

Re:Missing the biggest part of the picture

[b0s0z0ku]

Why is it that no one insisted on Russia being systematically "deSovietized" the way that the post-WWII Axis, Afghanistan and Iraq have been cleaned up? Why aren't the leaders who participated in the gulags, etc. hanging from gallows? Where are the human rights trials?

Russia collapsed from within (due, to some extent to external forces as well as anger at Soviet abuses and mismanagement i.e. Chornobyl). It was never invaded by a foreign power who could force the issue of trials. The worst abusers from the Stalinist era were mostly dead of old age or other causes anyway by 1990. And a lot of the old guard transitioned to the new regime or became business leaders so there were vested interests against trials. Plus, maybe, no one really wanted to see another bloody purge as happened all to often under Stalin.

I agree that some people who are free now should probably be in prison, but it's the Russians' country ultimately and up to them to solve their problems as they see fit.

-b.

Re:Missing the biggest part of the picture

[keeboo]

Things like this are a left over from the Soviet era. If the Russian people were smart, they would learn to get over their bullshit nationalism and repudiate their "Soviet glory days" with a vengeance by hanging the Communists and abolishing all of the last traces of Communist rule from Russia.

What kind of suggestion is this? Are you some kind of frustrated fascist?
People, when remember things of the past, usually take the good memories. No matter how bad it was during the USSR days, people had jobs, they were proud of their superpower-country and had a sense of purpose. Nowadays, you can't really say that.

The real issue, people, is that the Russian government has not fundamentally changed since the fall of the USSR. Why are people being sent to Siberia, especially for such a petty crime? I could understand violent crime, such as armed robbery, rape or murder, but simple theft or piracy?

If you really believe it's because of Russian government's will, you're very naive.
Russia wants to join WTO since it's commercially convenient for them, western countries (heck, U.S.A. I mean) essentially blackmails them, forcing Russia to defend foreign companies' interests thus making the country to adopt measures draconian enough to be considered "sufficient".
When bad things happen because of this, it was exclusively the country's fault. This is very common and happens not only to Russia.

You're assuming that a country can be completely sovereign thus being the only responsible by what happens inside it. That's simply not true.

Re:Missing the biggest part of the picture

[yoprst]

Why is it that no one insisted on Russia being systematically "deSovietized"
Who's gonna do it? It's not like communists packed and left. There are two ways to deSovietize Russia: civil war and invasion. Guess why noone wants to do that?
Why are people being sent to Siberia
Well, actually, Siberia is just a place. People live there. Noone's being sent there in the sence you imply. If you end up in Russian jail you may find yourself in some siberian prison, or some prison outside Siberia.

Re:Missing the biggest part of the picture

[joto]

Why is it that no one insisted on Russia being systematically "deSovietized" the way that the post-WWII Axis, Afghanistan and Iraq have been cleaned up?

Obviously because Soviet wasn't conquered by a coalition of foreign military forces as the other examples you mention. (And besides, I think past sense is more than a little bit optimistic with regards to Afghanistand and Iraq).

Why aren't the leaders who participated in the gulags, etc. hanging from gallows?

First of all, the leaders who participated in the gulags, etc, did it as part of a legal government, according to the will of the party. If you want to really punish someone, you should go after Stalin, etc, but he is dead. Finally, if the people who took part in the former government are all hanged, what good would it do to Russia? A bloody revolution is not the right way to start a democratic reform, it's exactly what the Russian people wanted to get away from.

Where are the human rights trials?

Nowhere. If people were imprisoned in gulag for e.g. political reasons, they should seek reparations from the russian government (or from other governments part of the Soviet union). Holding human rights trials serves little purpose when most of the perpetrators are dead long ago.

The Soviet Union was as bad or worse in the number of its people that it murdered than the Nazi regime. In fact, despite the cries of "Fascism!" the Italian Fascists were certifiably peaceniks in the numbers they killed compared to either the Nazis or the Soviets. In many respects, the Soviet Union was one if not the worst regime in the 20th century.

Yes.

Things like this are a left over from the Soviet era. If the Russian people were smart, they would learn to get over their bullshit nationalism and repudiate their "Soviet glory days" with a vengeance by hanging the Communists and abolishing all of the last traces of Communist rule from Russia.

Things like this are a result of international/american pressure against Russia to conform to internation/american copyright law. Trust me, the Russians would not put teachers in prison for software piracy if it wasn't for pressure outside Russia. That the Russians have kept some of their internment camps in Gulag (for regular prisoners, not political opponents), is no worse than the Americans still having the death penalty, a court-system where only poor people are guilty, Guantanamo, or the rumored secret detainment camp in Europe (Poland?).

The real issue, people, is that the Russian government has not fundamentally changed since the fall of the USSR.

It can be argued that the Russian government hasn't changed fundamentally since the Tsars either, and that the "communist" rule simply replaced the "tsar" with a "secretary general", and that the "democratic" rule simple replaced the "secretary general" with a "president". There are other fundamental problems within Russia than its communist heritage. Sure, the communist era was bad, but so has every other part of Russian history been.

Why are people being sent to Siberia, especially for such a petty crime? I could understand violent crime, such as armed robbery, rape or murder, but simple theft or piracy?

The reason Siberia was mentioned was to appeal to emotion, and it's not absolutely clear that that's where he ends up anyway. And, I don't know how the Siberian detention camps are today. Are they better or worse than other Russian prisons? Maybe it's the closest prison (he was from a remote region)? Simply appealing to emotion can obviously be effective, but sometimes you have to use reason as well, when you want to judge what is best.

appealing to corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of government do you have if you appeal to a corporation for help against imprisonment?

Or ... lets take the way-back machine.
The year is 1607.
Someone invents a new method of growing potatoes, that triples the yield.
A book is written on it.
The author of the book is dead, and/or only the Stationers monopoly have the legal and physical ability to copy the book.
But "pirates" copy the book, copy it and give it away to farmers who need the information.
The farmers use this information to increase the yield.
The Stationers crack down on those that are not paying the full tax on the book or idea.
The government arrests the poor farmers and imprisons them for the information crime.
An ex-government official appeals to the Stationers to go easy on the poor farmer.

The potato book is made-up. But the general situation ( then and now ), is not.

good night and good luck.

Re:Tweeeeet!! Apostrophe abuse!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ills be thankings you fors pointings out da mistakens in me sentencing structures as a gift I have includeds somes various's punctuations. ,.,.,.,::;;()''""

And This Astonishes You Because...?

[ewhac]

Gates has been whining about people "stealing" his software since the late 1970's. For him to come to the defense of an accused copyright infringer, even if that person was an innocent victim of counterfeiting, is simply politically impossible. To do so would sharply undermine Microsoft's poster-child status as the world's biggest "victim" of unsanctioned copying, and would make the intolerable suggestion that the position he's staunchly maintained for the last thirty years as a clear-cut black-and-white issue is, in fact, considerably more nuanced than he's claimed.

Schwab

Not signatory to our copyright laws

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt that 10% of Russia's computers are running licensed copies of windows. This has to be a hoax.

... but Putin steps forward

[ja]

"To grab someone for buying a computer somewhere and start threatening him with prison is complete nonsense, simply ridiculous," Putin said. "The law recognizes the concept of someone who purchased the product in good faith."

Dear Bill,

[Anonymous Coward]

Your a real SHIT.

If Bush had done this....

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine the reaction if George Bush were doing this.

Or even his father, Bush Sr.

Dear Gorby

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you know the world needs Stronger protection of Intellectual Property??

I feel bad for the teacher. This is a victimless crime. "Educational Use" should be an exception in the copyright act. And the teacher was doing something which benefits Microsoft anyway: training a new generation to be users of Microsoft's applications.

He should have used linux instead.

Prison isn't the place for such people

[gilesjuk]

This is a prime example of big business making out the damage that small scale piracy causes is as serious as murder, drug dealing and physical theft.

Why are people sent to prison for copyright infringement? sure, it can cause lost sales, but the court case should be asked to prove if the accused would have purchased the product otherwise.

When the copyright infringement is on a mass scale, ie. pirate copies duplicated in the thousands and sold, then yes these people have caused damage and should be punished.

The world has really lost it...

[DarkOx]

There are two major things wrong here.

1. Nobody should do prison time for infriging on a copyright. At least not when said infrigment is not part of a for profit activity. Even if you are one of those people that thinks copyright infringment and theft are not different, we still don't lock people up for shop lifting unless they are repeat offenders. We demand they make restitution and perhaps perform some community service as penence. As I say all the time the crime is not 100 times worse just because a computer was somehow used.

*yes this guy should be punished, just not so severly.

2. The other group of people want to argue that boohoo he can't afford Windows and other proprietary software and neither can alot of people in less well off parts of the world therfore they should be entitled. Look I think software copyrights and patents are lame, but for now the law is the law. You might and in my opinion probably are morally justified in brakeing it, especially if its in the name of makeing a social statement but if you do then you have to face the concequences. This is not like food or medicine nobody *needs* Windows period. If someone is only licensing their software/media for money you have choices, pay for it, infringe on it and take your chances, make your own, do without, or find a FOSS replacement.

*No we should not just let him off because he is the little guy getting screwed by big corporations and governments.

Re:The world has really lost it...

[XnavxeMiyyep]

How about the guy shouldn't be punished at all? You know, because it's only natural to assume that a computer vendor would be selling a legal product.

And of course the vendor doesn't deserve any blame....

Re:The world has really lost it...

[keeboo]

This is not like food or medicine nobody *needs* Windows period.

You don't need knowing math in order to survive, you don't even need to know how to read.
This education thing is worthless indeed.

If someone is only licensing their software/media for money you have choices, pay for it, infringe on it and take your chances, make your own, do without, or find a FOSS replacement.

I'm all for FOSS, I use it at home and at work half of the dept uses that too.

But, have you tried to replace Windows with FOSS, in a single department, for real? It's horribly hard, by still possible.
Now try convincing all the private companies and the public sector to switch from Windows to FOSS simply because your school abolished Windows completely. -- Yeah, good luck.

Re:The world has really lost it...

[dallaylaen]

I'm from Russia.

*yes this guy should be punished, just not so severly.

The problem is not that one teacher used pirated Windows in class. The problem is that almost all Windows installations in Russian schools are either pirated, or donated. The schools that get enough funding to *buy* MS products are really uncommon.

This guy is thought to be guilty of doing what everyone else does. Now that's what is outrageous!

In fact, should MS really start enforcing their licenses here in Russia, what they will get is 140 millions angry Linux users with nukes. But the Russian enforcers can't just sit on it, so what they find a scape goat from time to time to keep those who can pay scared. Think BSA.

Re:The world has really lost it...

[DarkOx]

Right, your post really helps me clairify my feelings on the matter. Its wrong to rake someone over the coals for something that you know everyone else is doing, just to appease some corporate lobby, or any lobby for that matter. This is not justice, I think most people would be fine with justice, this is scape goating. You are entirely right about that.

Re:The world has really lost it...

[DarkOx]

Yes, it might be hard but that is life. Life is hard, often for arbitrary reasons and often because people are exploiting each other. The difficulty of migracting away from Windows does not give you a cart blanche to break the law.

You need for and medication, if you don't have them you probably don't have the means to obtain them before you will no longer be doing anything ever again. The are a matter of survival. Software is not.

Your comments on education not being worth anything are a red haring. Nobody owns literacy, math, or basic facts about the world. The might own compilations or howto manuls but not the skills. People taught each other advanced mathematics and how to read for a long time before computer software. Its not even on the same plane

Those writing the curriculums are at fault.

[delire]

Any education involving computers practically demands piracy as a function of learning these days. I doubt there's a graphic design course in the world whose course fees are more than the total cost of software students do their homework on, let alone film, architecture or engineering degrees. Whole desktop computers cost less than a Photoshop license these days.

The root of the problem is that forced use of proprietary software in education will always lead to this 'theft', whether teacher, student or both. Most students and most schools are barely getting by.

Re:Those writing the curriculums are at fault.

[tokul]

Whole desktop computers cost less than a Photoshop license these days.

You can use PhotoShop trials for more than 5 months. 3 time limited versions of Elements, 3 time limited versions of Photoshop and one time unlimited PhotoShop version with disabled save functions.

Photoshop Elements cost less than 100 USD. Older versions can be bundled with scanners.

Re:Those writing the curriculums are at fault.

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

This is a crock of shit. You can buy fully functional educational versions of photoshop for less than 100$.

Punishment should fit the crime: near zero loss

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just another example of how badly the so-called "copyright piracy" lobbies have distorted the world's legal systems.

The "crime" here was an action that caused at most an extremely small amount of harm, if that. Even if you accept the entirely fictitious argument of "potential loss of sales", this still makes the loss extremely small. At most, a fine is due for recouping the alleged financial loss, but no personal harm was suffered by anyone.

Under no circumstances does loss of liberty (let alone in a Siberian prison) fit the alleged crime here.

RTFA, he didn't know THAT COPY was pirated

[spun]

He bought the computer with pirated Windows pre-installed. His claim not to know isn't based on not knowing piracy is wrong (what an amusingly arrogant point of view, "He's from a foreign country. They don't have modern things like copyright law in there.") It's based on not knowing that copy was pirated.

right...

[Anonymous Coward]

And they'll also make him work at an uranium mine.

ahistoric reference

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

When in doubt, include the name of the work: Les Miserables. Those people who don't know this story from Hugo might know it from Lloyd Webber.

Teaching pros and cons

[Adriax]

Both parents, 2 siblings, and a couple extended family members are all teachers, or in the case of my father superintendent.
Yes pay is ok, it's not stellar but it's good, though raises and cost of living increases rarely ever happen.

Benefits are excellent, summers off unless you opt for extra pay through summer school teaching. Good medical insurance for free, my dad's gets free generic drugs and anything over $200 in medical bills (including vision and dental) a year is covered 100%. Other benefits depend on tenure and position, like paid retraining, access to facilities after hours (my first real internet connection was in my dad's office, which I had free reign of after 6pm and on weekends). Some school districts recieve a lot of unnecessary grant money and budget allocation for tech upgrades, meaning at the end of the fiscal year even a small school can have $50k in unused tech cash and a need of ideas on what to spend it on.
Biggest benefit is stability and portability. EVERY community needs teachers, and it usually takes a good decade for population growth rates to effect wether they still need 50 teachers, or just 45.

Downsides are what turn most people off from the job. Longer hours than most jobs. Enough unpaid overtime to make an EA programmer pity you. More breakroom drama than ABC's daytime lineup. No Child Left Behind and other completely fucking stupid plans and regulations. Daily exposure to more infectious diseases than most doctors will ever see (this is why they don't skimp on the medical insurance).
Kids who wish you were sent to a siberian prison camp. Parents who ignore the fact their little angel is a holy terror and attribute everything from bad grades to disciplinary issues on your incompetence (so what if little billy was caught cheating, sleeps in class, and has started 3 fights this week alone, YOU hate him and are singling him out for undue punishment and failing grades). Parents who will do anything to correct any percieved issues with little angel's grades (death threats, my dad as a principal got dozens from parents looking for a way their kid won't fail 3rd grade again).

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Guppy06]

"Better to get it for free with a faithful and honest Ubuntu."

That slut will give it up to anybody for free, but in spite of all the practice still can't do a few particular tricks in the bedroom very well (such as wireless).

Get off of my cloud!

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

In America, you do have to go to college to get a degree in teaching. And you do have to get continuing education in those months when you are not teaching.
The teachers don't always repeat the script because they want to. They repeat the script because their students have to do well on standardized tests that school boards and the government force on them. Originally, they had to score well because schools with better scores got a better class of student, one with parents who could pay the taxes to improve the schools. These days, I believe that every school in America is federally required to be above average.
Did you not have any teachers, at all, when you were growing up?

Re:Get off of my cloud!

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, he might have pasted that rule.
How can every school be above average? Didn't those who passed that pased their school?
Oh, sorry. It's USA where science is on same level as religion (Intelligent Design), in science classes! I realy hope Church of the FSM, http://www.venganza.org/ get to be tough in science classes along with theory of Evolution and ID. At least the student will get something to lough at.
(English isn't my first language, so I'm sorry about any errors in this text. But I know enough to not get lost in four different languages)

Re:Get off of my cloud!

[gregorio]

In America, you do have to go to college to get a degree in teaching. And you do have to get continuing education in those months when you are not teaching.

Same thing for my country. The problem is that getting a degree is not that hard, and the "improvement system" is much more of a bureocratic process than a real improvement. In my country (Brazil) the "improvement system" was something unions asked so they could rebuff any attempt to criticize the quality of education. If you complain about their job, they'll point you their brand new diploma.

The teachers don't always repeat the script because they want to. They repeat the script because their students have to do well on standardized tests that school boards and the government force on them. Originally, they had to score well because schools with better scores got a better class of student, one with parents who could pay the taxes to improve the schools. These days, I believe that every school in America is federally required to be above average.
Did you not have any teachers, at all, when you were growing up?

I did, they were all ignorant suckers. =]

Re:Get off of my cloud!

[sarathmenon]

These days, I believe that every school in America is federally required to be above average.

The american definition of average must be quite different from what we have around here.

Worst. Last name. Ever.

[shihonage]

While it is common in Russian language to have last names which take after various ailments, livestock, body parts and insults to one's intellectual capacity, Alexander Ponosov's last name in Russian pretty much means "explosive diahhrea". I'd say it wins.

Russian gulag - best open source advocate

[coldhg]

When faced with russian gulag for using (un)authorizied(??) software, anyone would switch to opensource.

Different countries, different laws

[mangu]

This is a criminal matter and not civil?

It seems that in Russia, differently from the US, copyright infringement is a criminal and not civil matter.

What can bill gates do about it?

The same thing that can be done in many cases involving crimes against property. He can claim that it was all a misunderstanding, the teacher didn't steal the software because Bill Gates gave it to him.

does gorbie know soviet art is... banned? here

[Anonymous Coward]

if someone can find a copy of Big Mouth and Big Ears on the internet (a famous soviet era painting) you win a prize (please post link???)

Doesn't Gorby have Pardon Powers?

[Greyfox]

I bet he can make this just disappear if he wanted to. I doubt anyone would cry foul if he did so, and everyone will walk away having learned a valuable lesson about owing anything to evil capitalist corporations (Yes I know Communism is out of style now, but bashing corporations never gets old.)

Apple Doesn't Seem to Condone Piracy Either!

[BSDetector]

Wow!!! Even Apple seems to be anti-piracy too!

http://www.apple.com/legal/trademark/piracy.html

Slashdot idiocy is consistent!

Remind me again, why is the WTO a good idea?

[zooblethorpe]

But this leads to another issue and that is pricing.

And that, my friends, is one of the two lemmas here -- those countries spearheading WTO efforts (mostly the US, no?) are very interested in worldwide price parity if at all possible. The other lemma, though, is that these same countries are completely uninterested in effective economic parity, whereby that USD $x00 charge for whatever product (Windows in this case) is effectively equivalent to RUB 100, or JPY 10000, or what have you, where that USD $100 / RUB 100 / JPY 10000 will buy you an equivalent amount of stuff in other countries.

This, to me, is the grand hypocrisy of all such world trade efforts of late -- "We'll charge you our prices, but we'll be damned if we see you become as wealthy as we are." Makes me want to spit.

US businesses rule Russia???

[GoChickenFat]

So...let me get this straight. The current and a former president of Russia are begging a US businessman to stop the persecution of one of their citizens...what's wrong with this picture!? Of course, in a typical and predictable fashion, slashdot posters latch on to the tired old "bash Microsoft and Bill Gates" instead of questioning why a country's leaders would have to beg a US businessman to stop enforcement of a Russian law.

PR win for Linux, not Microsoft

[MikePlacid]

The prevailing story so far is that pirated MS software was pre-installed on the computer the accussed bought. Obvious alternative is to avoid MS completely and use Linux. That's what is now recommended: Google-translated from Russian

waterboarding might be appropriate

[wardk]

if we let one software criminal go free, where will it stop?

of course, in Russia, waterboarding is for woosies, heck you get that for not paying Igor his protection money each week

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Ubuntu has very little real world applications such as video editing, graphics, design, print, games, itunes, etc.

I'd like to switch to linux.. but windows offers much more in software apps right now unfortunately.

The saddest person in the world...

[texasmickey]

I pity Mr. Alexander Ponosov... It was not enough to be born with a last name that translates as "diarrhea" in Russian, he had to be sued by Microsoft! It even makes me wonder if this is some sort of a Microsoft bashing farce made up by Russia.

how could Gates intervene?

[Weirsbaski]

Last I checked, neither Bill Gates nor Microsoft was a law-enforcement agency. From TFA, it sounds like this is a criminal not civil trial. Or maybe this is Gorbechev's way of (consciously or not) saying that the rich and powerful pretty much are the law?

Maybe some Russian agency should remind people that there's other operating systems besides Windows, some of which actually encourage downloading, copying, and wide distribution.

Change the laws instead.

[MMInterface]

I think the sentencing for piracy and hacking is rediculous in general. So of course I don't support the possible punishment. But its the Russian and the US government that needs to be changed. Their punishments are way too severe. I certainly don't want people going to jail over my work. I get paid enough. Human life is more valuable then a stupid copy of Windows.

Re:Change the laws instead.

[james.infidel]

Very well said MM.

Former leaders of countries...

[catbutt]

...that no longer exist don't tend to have a lot of powers at all.

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Anonymous Coward]

FFS, you Linux naysayers act like the whole goddamn world is filled with graphic designers and musicians. What 'real world' are you living in?

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Anonymous Coward]

So what exactly does Ubuntu offer? Bongo drum sound themes and pornographic desktop wallpaper of african women?

Software piracy is not a crime

[Anonymous Coward]

Software piracy is a breach of contract, not a crime.

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Salsaman]

No video editing for Ubuntu ?

Here you go:

http://www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=265

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[McGiraf]

amarok is better than itunes

Gates was quoted as saying...

[Slur]

"Something, something, something... freedom to innovate.
Something, something, something... complete."

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[McDutchie]

"I am completely broke and unable to continue developing LiVES." What a nice demonstration of the open source software development model's effectiveness.

gorbachev

[dididothat]

did he ever do anything bout that unsightly blotch on his forehead.perhaps bill gates could throw a few bucks to a plastic surgeon.......

Gorbachev's goal was not JUST to save Ponosov

[KWTm]

Yeah, it looks really, really shitty that he declined -- and I think it's really, really shitty -- but had Gates accepted, he would have looked soft on piracy at the very moment he's telling everyone he's not under any circumstances.

WTF!? Do I understand you correctly to sympathize with Bill Gates' inaction about wrecking Ponosov's life, because otherwise Gates would have lost face?

First: you'd send someone to the gulag to save face? Suppose it happened to you: you just said that this was "really really shitty". So suppose I bring you a barbed whip and Bill Gates' wife all tied up, and told you to flog Mrs. Gates on global TV. After all, you yourself agreed that "it's really, really shitty." Would you do it, albeit reluctantly, because otherwise you'd look like you'd gone soft?

Second: Since when did Gates or Microsoft worry about losing face? You'd think they'd be thick-skinned enough after delaying Vista/Longhorn a bazillion times, or with Gates lying through his teeth about how Windows would never get a security exploit once a month, like the Mac.

Third: Don't you think Gates/Microsoft could have come up with a plan to save Ponosov if they wanted to? You know, with Gates' IQ of 150 (he did invent the GUI and Ctrl-Alt-Del and the BSOD all by himself, you know) and the combined IQ of all Microsoft's management totaling another 150, you'd think they'd be able to figure something out.

Gorbachev is the one to blame. Had he done it privately, perhaps MS would have done something.

I disagree. I suspect Gorbachev and the other Russian luminaries wanted to publicly call MS on the disproportionate punishment for piracy. They wanted to do it, not just for Ponosov, but for all the other users who, as a matter of practicality, simply *have to* use pirated MS software for their daily lives. Ponosov was an example case, but to the horror of Gorbachev and others, MS actually declined.

MS could have helped, without looking foolish. They could have publicly announced that they'd make one exception in Ponosov's case, but only if Ponosov agrees to preach about the evils of piracy for 2 hours each week for a year, or something. But no, the world sees the way Gates really thinks.

Maybe now people will see that the Bill And Melinda Gates Foundation has just been an automated PR machine. Sprinkle money here and there, and where it lands on fertile earth, fans and supporters will spring up. No thought or good intentions need be put in. (Wasn't the Foundation Melinda's idea, anyway, no Bill's?) But when you need Bill to show the way he thinks, we clearly see that he's still just as cutthroat as when he made off with Spyglass and made it Internet Explorer.

Wake up, world!

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Salsaman]

Well, a temporary situation I hope :-)

The Issues here

[popo]

'Just thinking off the top of my head, but there are a few issues here that make this
interesting:

1) The punishment sure doesn't fit the crime. Gates is being asked to absolve this man of his crime, and that only seems like a moral imperative because the the punishment is so severe.
2) Gates is in a world of trouble over this one because if he acquiesces he's opening the door to far more crime.

So the only route Gates can take is to work "on behalf" of the teacher to reduce his penalty to a penalty which would be more in proportion to a US one.

My prediction..my 2 cents...

huh?

[qzulla]

Sure, you can call the police, but that'll be kind of hard if they're the ones that come a'knockin'. It doesn't matter that you use open-source software. What does matter is (in the case of a workplace or other public location) is that you contractually protect yourself from what your employees/customers do with your internet connection.

What my company does on the internet has a bearing on what prirated software It may or may not have installed?

Makes sense to me.

qz

Re:huh?

[DrRevotron]

Read any ISP's TOS and AUP and you'll see clauses which specify indemnity in the event of illegal use of their service. (It applies to more than ISPs and webhosts, too.) The jist of it is that if a user (or employee in this case) is using pirated software, the user (or employee) is contractually obligated to indemnify and hold harmless the service provider. In layman's terms, it's an ignorance clause. "We can't keep track of everything our users do, therefore we cannot be held responsible for their actions." Back to the point, if one of your employees downloads a pirated Microsoft/random vendor's product, having such clauses in a contract ensures that your organization is protected from legal recourse. Now, back to the topic: Microsoft/BSA shouldn't be going after the headmaster. They should press charges against the IT personnel or even the computer vendors in some cases. In the US at least, school administrations often have little to do with the happenings of the IT department other than check-signing.

Criminals on pedestals

[Harmonious Botch]

Yep, 'fraid I do; my heroes are people like Sokol, Solzhenitsyn, Phil Zimmerman, Bertrand Russell, Patrick Henry, etc. Criminals, all of them!

Yup

[Xenographic]

My mother was a teacher, as such, I ended up knowing quite a few teachers as I grew up. Almost every one of them did exactly what you said. Heck, even I ended up helping out by making a few exhibits and things to help them illustrate very basic biology.

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Does it interface with Itunes Store? Does it interface with the Ipod correctly?

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

I'm not a linux naysayer. Infact i keep my eye on it regulary in hopes to escape microsoft. I wish the world would shift focus towards Linux or a new free open sourced OS that promotes the idea of privacy, security, civil rights, etc. I admire Linux for a lot... but I am a professional working in computer graphics and i can not make the switch due to the amount of software that is windows only. There are some programs that i use that are linux. Maya, Softimage XSI... but i can not make the switch because there are other complimenting programs that out number those 2 main apps.

And dont think i havent asked for Linux versions.

I would like the world to move away from MS and towards an OS that is made by the worlds people. I think that is a great and nobel cause. Some are fortunate to move to Linux and have it suit their application needs. Mainly those are people doing networking, or are at home emailing, watching videos, using gaim, and open officing. Linux is ready for those people... Although they are kind of alone in the world when it comes to hardware support, games etc. Linux is a great platform... but it will not win people over until we can get the some more professional apps over to it. It has started, but its such a slow movement unfortunately.

I'm not a linux naysayer or however you spell it :) I'm a realist that keeps tabs on the state of the computing world as it relates to my needs.

WTO indeed

[greatgreygreengreasy]

I don't know the facts, so I can't say much about the guy's guilt or innocence. One thing that did strike me is the comment on the WTO. Trade agreements and organizations such as these have shifted power from nations and their people to corporations and their shareholders. When your country makes laws based on suggestions from lobbyists, it has passed (even further) into an aristocracy than it already was.

Also, I tried Ubuntu for the first time the other day. (I've used linux sparingly in the past.) I had to reinstall my pirate Win2K because my ATI AiW, my scanner, and my printer are all unsupported. :( Maybe when I have newer equipment. That or a Mac.. ;)

"pulled up the paperwork"

[Per Abrahamsen]

Heh, the first time they do that here, we will pay millions in damages. Not that we haven't licensed all the software we use, but most of it is ancient and I doubt we would be able to find the necessary papers any more.

The sad thing is that there is no way the leadership would draw the correct lesson from this (to mandate the use of free software, and hire more researcher for the money they save), instead they would fire more researchers in order to create a new administrative unit to handle software licenses, and forbid the use of "unlicensed" (including free) software.

as the another saying goes

[hany]

Looking at my post history, I'm maybe becomning "The Saying Guy" but ...

... as the saying goes:

If you lend $10 to someone, it's his problem.
If you lend $10'000'000 to someone, it's your problem.

So, the saying tends to support you suggestion.

Not that I encurage amaricans to do what you wrote ...

So report the site again, here

[giafly]

I reported a website selling downloads of Microsoft software and Microsoft did absolutely nothing. The website is still up! Instead, they want to fry a school teacher.

Sure you did. So why didn't you include a link in your post? Microsoft read Slashdot too, you know. Just type:
<a href="URL of site">the evil site I invented</a>

Exactly

[gr8dude]

I agree with you, I think that the whole Siberia thing is just made up by the press, to make the story more dramatic. I am surprised they didn't say the guy would be fed to bears wearing shapka-ushankas and dancing and singing kalinka somewhere in the heart of the Taiga, where the nearest check-point of civilization is X thousand km away, where there is so much mud that even the most high-tech valenkis won't help.

Maybe they will force him to re-build the BAM as a punishment? Oh, the media these days...

just how many..

[BlackCobra43]

..living organisms are present on your ass that a "genocide" might actually be possible?

In Soviet Russia

[J05H]

Pirated Software 0WNS You!

8)

Bill Gates has been getting a lot of "pirate" heat lately, first the Romainian PM saying that Warez built their IT industry, now Gorby begging for pirate amnesty...

The Tower is Crumbling

[bill_mcgonigle]

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

He has no choice if he wants to get licensing money out of Russia.

But... if the money isn't there, then that leaves Russian teachers with the choices: Pirate and maybe go to Siberia, or Deal with Ubuntu.

If they still chose Siberia we know Linux on the Desktop really "Isn't Ready".

Kosher?

[bill_mcgonigle]

My personal "radical suggestion" has for a long time been that laws should be written as statements of principle that may be no longer than one page of normal size text.

But how do you fit all the pork provisions on the single piece of paper?

Oh.

Break the law do the time: Use Linux

[bobs666]

If the sad Alexander Ponosov broke the law then no more need be said. Do the crime do the time!

But Alexander first mistake was that he did not use/teach Linux to his students.

On the other hand Bills mistake was to not give all students every where free License as a Windows promotion.

Microsoft SPURNED Gorbachev's appeal

[sceptic-007]

Microsoft Corporation replied to the letter by M. Gorbachev, in which it SPURNED his appeal to clemency in the case of a rural school teacher. The post with a link to the news item in full is here: http://yro.slashdot.org/~sceptic-007/journal/16259 2

You speak of a system called

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

Legislative Intent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_intent

Um, correctly me if I'm wrong

[rsilvergun]

but if the party wronged in a criminal case declines to press charges, there's not a hell of a lot prosecutors can do. So, yeah, if Gates calls the prosecutor and says "Do it because I'm Rich", that's a banana republic, but if he calls and says his company's not pressing charges (which, as the head of the company he can do), then the prosecutor has to back off.

Still, I'm not too worried for the teacher. After all the attention, he won't get sent to prison. And on the plus side, this is so going to backfire on Microsoft.

Re:Using Windows is like having sex with a prostit

[McGiraf]

"Does it interface with Itunes Store? Does it interface with the Ipod correctly?"

I don't know and i don't care, i do not use any iStuff, I just say it'sa better music player and music collection organizer, I tried iTunes on windows a while ago and i really liked it but i does not run on Linux and I almost never boot windows. Ao I used rythmbox and it sucked compared to iTunes, then I discovered AmaroK and iTunes sucks compared to it (IMO). And by the way, Does iTunes interface with mysql? does it work well with ogg files. How well does it run on Linux? can it download Album art from amazon? can you script it with cron jobs .....