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Microsoft Not Dropping Hotmail Name
EveryNickIsTaken writes "CNET News.com is reporting that despite planning for months to ditch the name 'Hotmail' for 'Windows Live Mail,' Microsoft will keep the Hotmail name, renaming the service 'Windows Live Hotmail.' Along with the slight name change, MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI."
Along with the slight name change, MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI.
It's kind of ironic that they've already been beaten to the punch on that front by Yahoo Mail (previously Oddpost).
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
to couteract "Windows Dead Hotmail"?
MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI
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This is not the greatest
I've been using their Windows Live Mail Beta for several months, and while it's still not as good as Yahoo's mail beta, it's MUCH better than regular hotmail... which sucks.
That said, I find myself using Windows Live Mail Desktop more and more. The early betas were pretty bad, but now it's a fairly good, simple e-mail client. Good stuff for those who don't need Outlook.
I'm actually pretty surprised that the Yahoo mail beta doesn't get more press. It is, by FAR, the best web-based e-mail I've ever seen. Check out this review for screenshots.
My parents currently use it. I've been trying to get them to gmail for various reasons. (being able to easily switch from it, being one). However, I haven't found a way to set up forwarding or any other functions that would make this easier. Anybody have any magic bullets, I don't think they are going to switch without one or two. I already managed to transfer contacts, but that's it.
Gmail's available for everyone now, has more space and better spam protection. Why would anyone except for legacy users still be using Hotmail?
I haven't used my Hotmail account in a long while, but the final straw of their ad-laden interface was the stupid "Today" tab. It was the first thing that showed up when you logged in. Why the hell would I be going to Hotmail unless it was to check my email? My Inbox is the first thing I should see, not the crappy "Today" tab that as far as I can tell is just there to get an extra ad impression.
Now I have gmail and it is all business, I log in and see my emails. No extra clicking and I don't even notice the ads.
I might take this opportunity to plug a blog I'm currently working on, trying to get Microsoft to manage their passport.net / hotmail / xbox live syncing / linking a little better.
(no, there's no ads on there)
I wouldn't say it's well written, nor would I say it's a major issue but it is an annoyance.
http://msnemailchange.blogspot.com/
To quickly summarise, Microsoft has a policy where if you have a passport.net account to log in to some of their services, you can't change your login / backend email if you opted to chose a hotmail account, quite the frustrating if you simply don't want to use hotmail anymore.
On top of that, those of us who own an Xbox 1 or Xbox 360 and use live can get frustrated that the live "gamertag" is permanently bound to a passport.net id which we may no longer want to use (be it avoiding people on MSN, sick of hotmail's email interface or simply want to use another email address)
To my knowledge several other Microsoft web "products" use these live id's / passports but how well they integrate with passport.net / liveid I don't know - I believe there's a myspace kind of clone and also Zune owners need a passport - however, don't quote me on that.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's more integration with Vista too, perhaps the messenger package installed as default, however that one is also speculation.
So just to finalize my comment, yes I realize it's my own fault using MS's products and well yeah it's not a real major issue but it's annoying and could be handled a lot better, if anyone has any information on this, specifically names within MS / Xbox divisions for me to question, I'd appreciate it.
and yes, I'm new to starting one of these ranty style pages so it's a mess, sorry all.
- Scott
Since M$ tends to play catch-up anyway (behind Google) if they're gonna change the name, how about lmail (for live mail).
requiring a Windows Live ID for Office 2007 sucks
it is a pain for me trying to install the new Office on all my customers' computers, since i now have to explain that in order to Activate it, they have to get a Live ID, which nearly requires a birth certificate and retinal scan....
i mean, they already payed for a unique key, as was done in the "old days"...
i disable sigs
" By adopting the name 'Windows Live Hotmail,' we believe we're bringing together the best of both worlds--new and old "
What ever happened to just updating software. Is microsoft claiming that windows live hotmail whatever is going to be so 'new and improved' it's actually a different software product? Here's an idea, don't change the name - don't confuse people - just update the damned thing.
As an end-user, there is absolutely no difference in functionality between Windows version 1 and Windows XP. XP windows didn't *do more*, it just *had more*. It still shows you neat little pictures, and you click on them, and software runs and then crashes and then so does your computer.
Windows live hotmail extra 2-in-the-pink-1-in-the-stink beta alpha theta radiation flux capacitor is no different. It's a messenger client. If it's so different, why the hell do hotmail users want to use it?
Microsoft's days really are numbered.
---
two in the pink
Ace
Now, if you'll all excuse me, someone just "squirted" me an email.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
"Hotmail" always struck me as sounding related to porn. Anyone else get this reaction ?
If that's the case, you better steer clear of PenisMail.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
It just... flows... Kudos to the naming department.
Changing the name to SpamMail probably would have been a bad idea.
In other words, its sort of like when my cat pisses on something and then scratches it for a while to claim it as his own.
Once upon a time, Microsoft went slap happy with the Back-Office moniker. They hurridly affixed it to many a disparate product for reasons unknown.
.net moniker. They hurridly affixed it over stale back-office stickers and even on products that had been lucky enough to avoid the officially orificially excrementitious sounding branding the last time around.
.net doesn't mean anything. Bill himself saw this to be true and hurridly, desperately affixed 'live' to many a disparate product. The rest he called 'vista'.
Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value.
Eventually, Microsoft realized that back-office sounds like back-orifice. So, they went slap super happy with the
Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value.
The most brilliant of the Microsoft Marketeers realized that
Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value...
I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I will not be changing my name either, but I may be changing my appearance to resemble people with popular names.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I was kind of stumped on who to ask about this and I can't figure it out. I figure It can't hurt to ask here. My IIS SMTP server (the one that comes with Server2003, not Exchange) can not send emails to hotmail.com or msn.com addresses. they always bounce.
Here's a wireshark description of the connection: (with the emails slightly edited)
And it just stops there. No response from hotmail, my server doesn't send anything more. It's been doing this for a couple of weeks I think.
Can anybody tell me whats going on here? Or perhaps where I can go to get some help?
Nathan Friedly
Even after the decade or so since web-based email started to become popular, none of the clients available today compare to pine or mutt in terms of productivity.
With a console-based mail client, I'm able to check my mail, read new messages, reply to them, compose new emails, delete old mails, etc., without having to take my hands off of the keyboard. Compare that to web-based email interfaces, which tend to require at least one mouse click to view a message in one's inbox, one more click to reply, one more click to actually send the message, and often then one more click to return to the inbox.
You may not think that five or six mouse clicks is really that bad. But when you have 60 to 70 emails to deal with each day for years on end, the time really adds up. And if you're an employer, you're paying your employees for what amounts to wasted time.
One of my friends asked me a favor to reanimate her deceased windoze box, so, I did.
p ", put your "blah@hotmail.com" as login name, set "3DES" security, and it goes. My very old hotmail account was created when the maximum mailbox size was very misearble, couple Mb or something like this.
I installed AdPlus plugin for her Firefox, and just tumbled to the reason why she uses her hotmail account via browser as webmail and not more convenient regular email client as Thunderbird, or, at worst, Outlook Express. And she said that it is impossible.
I did not touch my old hotmail account like 2 years already, so, it was difficult to recall my password. But when I finally did, I found out that my hotmail account still works. You just set up Server URL to be "http://services.msn.com/svcs/hotmail/httpmail.as
But when I was trying to create the new hotmail account (just for fan, I never plan to use it, neither my old one), it does not work with stand alone mail client, incl. Microsoft Outlook Express.
So, MS values advertisement money very much, otherwise I don't see the reason of her change of heart.
Probably, she does not believe that sales of Office and new OS will be very good source of income anymore.
Despite all of their attempts, Microsoft can not make better products, only better brands. Hotmail has powerful brand awareness that would be foolish to disregard. However, the problem now lies, is that in an attempt to revitalize the service's brand, they have attached their own equivalent of the word NEW to the service: Windows Live Hotmail. Usually a company does that when they have lost market share, which Hotmail must have now that Google's Gmail is open. Microsoft is in a pretty dull period right now, and it can't get better for them, only worse. They need to come up with something that truly maximizes human potential, instead of merely changing the stickers all the time.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Surely you can find this documented on the web somewhere?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
After being repeatedly infected with viruses it's no longer alive. It's now undead.
No extra clicking and I don't even notice the ads.
I notice the ads, though they aren't on all my messages. Interesting thing is how damned relevant they are, and sometimes even helpful. I forget what it was, but my wife and I were emailing back and forth about buying something and it was listed in the ads, so I clicked on it (why not, I get the free email, I don't mind throwing a bone gmail's way every now and then) and it was actually a better price than what I was getting ready to pay, and the vendor was just as reputable too.
so, see the ads, you might end up doing yourself a favor. And google already knows where you've been anyway so what's the difference.
- Disclaimer: Information in this post deemed reliable but not guaranteed.
Maybe they should change the name. After all Hotmail is pretty much synonymous with spam/ad laden e-mail account(and for good reason).
I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
It's like the entire design philosophy behind Hotmail has made a 180 degree turn since the Microsoft acquisition.
Windows NT was originally sold on the basis that it would offer all applications developers and users the opportunity to develop and use applications that all have the same standard user interface everywhere, and thus UNIX was legacy.
Windows XP was sold on on the basis that all applications developers could customise the look of their applications with "skins".
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
After minutes of suggesting he may switch to orange juice with breakfast, Karl Emorphowitz has decided to stick with coffee, along with an extra tab of artificial sweetener.
More news at 11
I don't therefore I'm not.
fap-fap-fap-fap.
The latest Slashdot meme.
Really? I think they're great. You can use them just like folders, except that you can put any number of labels on a given email; it's like putting the same thing in every folder you might want to look for it. same with contact groups.
Not flamebaiting here, just putting it out there.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Windows Direct Live Connect Delivery IcyHotmail Interface Hub.
Old accounts can still access hotmail using a proper client.
New accounts have to pay for the privilege.
I'm not sure if you had to have used hotmail by proper client prior to the changeover date or not.
thanks for that tip
I am using Hotmail Popper for a couple of Hotmail accounts I have had for about 10 years now. Not sure if the changes to the Hotmail interface will affect the Popper program and cause it to malfunction or not. Time will tell. I shall go to your suggested way of using a client to download web mail if the Popper program ceases to operate..
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
What makes you think that it will involve an activex control? Microsoft pulled off OWA (Outlook Web Access) which is browser based yet offers much of the same functionality as Outlook, and requires nothing installed on the end user's machine. OWA is, quite honestly, one of Microsoft's best creations. I'm sure that the updated hotmail will be much the same.
I'm on the beta for Windows Live Mail desktop and it's actually quite good. Decent search, rss, automatic syncing of contacts with the online version and none of the full Outlook bloat. As someone else said, you get 2GB of storage now so that's not a big deal.
But the big feature for me with Hotmail has always been the ability to download mail to a local mail client via WebDav. I've been contracting for 5 years and most companies block POP3 and SMTP connections. GMail doesn't do WebDav and I don't care what anyone says, a local client is *always* superior to a web interface.
So until Google do WebDav syncing I'll stick with Hotmail.
One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there
And your point is? Frankly, if a company purchases a service outright, they pretty much have the right to do whatever they want with it. Especially if it's provided for free. You want to call it a travesty? Fine. Blame the people who sold it, not the ones who bought it. If I sell someone a used-car, I have no right to expect them to drive it in the same manner as I did.
Furthermore, given that there are numerous other (and perhaps better) services out there, people will just go elsewhere if they fail to adhere to what users want.
I think you're missing the point the parent post was trying to make. They weren't complaining about how easy it is to have one account for everything. They were complaining that they can't change the email address associated with it because it is a hotmail account. They simply want to change their email address, and it doesn't allow them to.
today is spelling optional day.
Being a bit goofey now and again matters.
KFG
Would you believe that Hotmail matters to my mom? Not that she reads Slashdot.
That's 'cause I won't tell her how to find me here. She's actually asked, but I evaded the question. The last thing I need is her reading the shit I post about her. It's a Brave New Family Relationships World.
KFG
The #1 SPAM trap is changing name, great! For the moment, I encourage U to take a look at GMAIl witch is now open to a broader audience.
When I first heard about "hotmail", I thought it was some kind of porno email service. Am I the only one??
Now it has become "live hotmail" -- it just keeps getting better and better! I am tempted to get a "live hotmail" account just to use to email bigot friends of mine... too bad the usernames "young" or "tasty" are most likely taken...
I guess their support address is "soft@live.hotmail.com" ?
This was obviously brought to you by the same people who gave us seven versions of Vista with names that are made up of at least four words. Ballmer (a marketing guy) and his marketing demons wanted to tie into their new Windows Live brand, but they didn't want to lose the brand value of Hotmail, so they just grafted them together with no thought given to aesthetic or marketability. Windows Live Hotmail? It looks and sounds stupid.
"Hey, guys, I'm using Windows Live Hotmail in Windows Internet Explorer on Windows Vista Home Premium Edition! REVEL IN THE BRANDING!"
"Sufferin' succotash."
That is what they promised, and why I signed up for Hotmail. It was free, it was great, it was _independent_.
It was 1995. I knew I would physically move within the global village, and I needed a permanent address. Microsoft very quickly bought this successful idea, crippled it but did not, to its credit and my surprise, completely kill it. My addresses are still valid, I still use them, and among the international spam, I can still receive messages from my friends.
Comcast offers a miserable storage space for a maximum fee and arbitrarily bounces emails when they do not come from the same zip code. Notifiying the recipient is obviously beyond their ability. That is true, they could do even worse and drop the messages altogether and never notify the sender either.
That being said. It did hurt me hard when Hotmail was acquired by the Evil Empire. MSN is as much as I can take today. If I have to see Microsoft in full letters, I'll puke my last ties with it and a long gone global, free internet. I'll just set some email server at home.
Without the OSS move, internet would have been a very sad story. I knew from the start that corporations would very quickly try to clog and profit from the communication pipes. Thanks to free OSes, nobody but old farts or young idiots has to use hot or g or rocket or whatever mail.
RIP Hotmail, and big thanks to the original creators.
--
kk1
What interests me about this article is that it mentions Microsoft will make Hotmail more similar to OWA. If this means that, in the long run, they will add Outlook synchronization or at least ActiveSync synchronization I would be very happy since this is something I'm paying for now. Services like mail2web already offer this kind of service today so I can imagine Microsoft is feeling jealous...
I need a new hard drive just to hold the names of Microsoft products.
Some people (chronic organizers?) seem to be attached to the nested folder / hierarchy paradigm though.
For me labels work just fine, since I don't really like anything deeper than one level. Failing labels, I just use search to find the email I want, I can usually remember a key term to search for.
The craziest complaint I heard about GMail though, was that it threaded related messages into "conversations". To me, that is probably the most useful feature about it.
Microsoft/Yahoo seem bent on attempting to re-invent the thick client on the web though, from the looks of things. I'm not sure why they think that will work well on the web, I'm guessing they are of the opinion people are used to Outlook, therefore will go for familiarity. Lame :(
The craziest complaint I heard about GMail though, was that it threaded related messages into "conversations". To me, that is probably the most useful feature about it.
Conversations are often more of a tree than a list and it would be nice to have the option of viewing it as such.
Is this just a marketing tactic because forcing a change from hotmail to whatever they are calling their @...com will just scare off too many customers, not to mention confuse everyone that already communicates with one of the few non spam bots that still exist out there (I don't know actual numbers but get more spam from the hotmail domain than actual contacts). Or have they done a study that told them that the general public may be carrying a negative image of "Windows [live] Mail" which may suggest that even though they own 90% of the market that the general public may not actually want to be associated directly as a MS service user.
...and IIRC it was Rocketmail before that.
Seems I recalled wrongly. Sorry.
Why putting the name of an OS in a web application name? It's just stupid. Why not "Google Linux Mail", "Yahoo! BSD Mail", ...
Erm. Microsoft has had this Outlook lookalaike interface for Hotmail in beta for at least a year. And guess what? It works in Firefox too. The horror!
I used the similar utility for Yahoo! mail, till the moment I wrote much more flexible and powerful script in Ruby. Such screenscraping libraries as Hpricot/Mechanize made this a breeze!
So, not only can I visit and collect info from all my webmail accounts based on topic and fuzzy search (tags/key words), but I am able to combine it with any other browser search, both online and inside ScrapBook plugin for Firefox.
If not such plugins as ScrapBook, Adplus and some others, I'd rather prefer using Opera browser -- faster.
If I'm on somebody else machine, I use "links" in Linux, or "links" via my USB Key. "links" is very addittive, and as info in email, sometimes you love read the bare text, especially in the news.
Yeah, it works, but not nearly as seamless as with IE/Windows.
In other news... they'll be deleting all your emails daily rather than monthly if you havent logged in. They'll offer 4GB of space to beat google, and then delete emails as they come.
/var/spool/*
# Cron job:
rm -rf
# Since we all know they continue to use Solaris for their hotmail servers.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Is it just me, or does "Windows Live Hotmail" remind you of those ads pased all over topless bars?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
Well the problem with implementing it as a tree is that would probably mean linking things with different subject names together based on content and context (in time and in terms of information). If you manage to do that, I have a Turing award for you.
The only reason I use hotmail is becaue it synchs much better on my mobile device via direct push. And the windows live apps for windows mobile helped as well, especially the IM client and being able to synch my address book with my phones. I was primarily a gmail user but I just had too many problems synching my gmail via pop. And when I accessed gmail via pop on more then one device, POP access would get turned off and I would have to go back into settings and turn it back on. With hotmail and yahoo I can synch with several desktop clients and my pocketpc. My major problem with Yahoo is that my messages are consistantly delayed while gmail and hotmail seem to get them instantly. I think hotmail and yahoo will do just with Apple and MS putting their clients on mobile devices and all the services they are tied to. IM plays a big part. I have tons of gmail users in my address book but none of them use google's IM features, they use hotmail, aim or yahoo.
Wellll.. on IE it does use an ActiveX control. It supports other browsers sans ActiveX, but only at a stripped-down level of functionality that is much closer to Hotmail.
But I think the new Hotmail will use AJAX to create a cross-browser, Outlook-esque feel -- the other "Windows Live" sites are going that route.