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Xbox 360 Elite Officially Announced
It should come as no shock that Microsoft has finally announced an upgraded version of the Xbox 360: the 'Elite'. The worst-kept secret in the videogames industry is now official, offering a 120 GB HDD, an HDMI port, and a smooth black finish for $479. The new sku drops next month, and to fill up that new hard drive Microsoft has lined up seven new partners for their Xbox Live video distribution service. Outfits like Paramount and Warner Bros. are nice to hear about, but I'm equally excited about the likes of National Geographic and ADV Films. 1up has the market cornered on commentary at the moment, with reactions from the staff there, a comparison of the new 360's value vs. the PS3, and a few words from Sony's Dave Karraker. If you're looking for even more coverage, there are several links available below.
What a worthless bundle. First of all as we already covered in a previous XBOX 360 Elite article, there is no benefit to using HDMI instead of a component-cable. Second, by using HDMI, you are actually submitting to HDCP (DRM, content control stuff).
So what you're really getting out of this product is a larger hard drive. Whether a bigger hard drive is worth an extra $80 to you is for you to decide. I fail, however, to understand how nothing more than a larger hard drive and a black paint job makes it elite.
I'm going to guess there will be a flood of idiots rushing out to buy it - even to replace their existing boxes - because they think HDMI is some nifty high-definition thingamajig and then they'll rush home and plug it in and convince themselves that they really do see a difference.
If you really want to make it elite, make it quieter, cooler and less prone to dying.
That said, you haven't lived till you've played a real NES on 62" screen tv or a >100" projected screen
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
good god I need coffee, *wii*, not *will*
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
I'm a huge believer in the XBox 360 as a platform, and I'm delighted to have owned one since launch day. Wii's anemic release schedule and PS3's pathetic lineup of 360 ports / shitty first-party content (Resistance excepted) means that it's the best system out there.
I'm one of those dorks that buys everything videogame-related, but I'm not motivated to upgrade at all. An HDMI port, quieter operation, and shiny black skin isn't enough to attract me, and I'm an enthusiast for their products. If they'd integrated the HD-DVD drive and the wireless adapter that would be one thing, but this is much too little, far too late.
I mean, the PS3 comes with Blu-ray and wireless built-in on the high-end model. Meanwhile, the 360 costs $100 extra for 802.11 (an adapter that has shit range, by the way, on a shelf next to my wii and ps3 the 360 can't pick up a signal), and $200 extra for a hi-def video drive.
So: Elite 360 + Wireless + HD-DVD = $780.
PS3, with built-in wireless and built-in Blu-ray: $600. Way to destroy your price advantage, Microsoft!
Obviously I'm not the target audience for this product, but I can't for the life of me figure out who is.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
So now there's a legal way to download anime? I don't believe it. I think I'll need more than 120 Gb though.
"The right to do something does not mean doing it is right." William Safire
$180 for 120GB hdd is a bit steep, hopefully the Elite hdd signature can be used to replace the original 20GB hdd with a generic 120GB hdd. :)
Now that it's got HDMI all we need is XBMC on it
The Xbox is in black?
Wow, I've never seen anything like this before.
Still no slot-loader?
Hey - Im very interested in getting a PS3, not for the games, but for writing code that works on a Cell processor, incl SPU's. That doesnt make me weird - its just that I have some signal processing applications that are currently running on clusters of 64bit unix boxes, and I reckon that Cell might be a good architecture to port these applications too.
Question then : How much to add a Cell processor (or equivalent 6-8 core architecture) to an Xbox360, and also to provide a GNU compatible toolchain to build code with ?
Not suggesting for one moment that the Xbox360 is MS-Rubbish, but for what I want a 'console' for, the XBox360 has nothing much to offer compared to a PS3.
I know I know I know that they are supposed to be 'games consoles', and I sincerely hope that a lot of people buy a lot of expensive games and blu-ray movies for them, because that keeps the base price of the unit subsidised below cost, which is all I want anyway - cheap, readily available, parallel architecture linux machine. Awesome.
Not only is this new version missing two features the PS3 has and will end up costing more than the PS3 with them added...
IT CAN'T EVEN CURE CANCER
Seriously though, if I'd just bought an Xbox 360, I'd be *very* pissed off right now.
Summation 2
My understanding is that the PS3's scaling limitations are at least partially a result of it's digital output, HDMI. The Xbox has an analog scaler, but is introducing HDMI only going to cause it to be prone to the same kind of issues?
God Fucking Damnit
I have a 360 with HD-DVD drive and wireless adapter and a pair of wireless pads. If I was to switch to this just for the sake of HDMI and a bigger drive, bearing in mind that my HDTV doesn't support 1080p over HDMI, only over component and also I can't even see a difference between component and HDMI on the thing, I would also have to replace all the white extras. Oh, and I actually think the 360 looks better in white. Mind you, when I came to buy a new iPod Video I bought the white one because I didn't like the look of the black one.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
That would have been a better name. For real elite gamers, L33T or 1337 is the right hyped choice.
-- Rastignac was here.
Well, as you've said, you're not the target audience for it.
The target audience obviously isn't anyone who already has an XBox 360, for that matter. It's out to target people -- or at least blunt their arguments -- who've been whining, basically, "the XBox sucks because it doesn't have a HDMI port" or "the XBox sucks because it's too loud for my living room" or "yeah, but the PS3 is _black_". Now MS can tell them, basically, "So buy an Elite then."
It's, if you will, like the pink PSP. It's not there so everyone with a black one will throw it into the garbage bin and run buy a pink one. It's there so maybe some father will go "omg, pink girly PSP" and buy one for his daughter.
The price also isn't always calculated like that. Not everyone who bought an XBox will use it as a HD-DVD player, and not everyone is, basically, "OMG, must have wireless at all cost." I can tell you I'm perfectly content with cables, and haven't used the old XBox or PS2 for DVD playback either. The damn thing is there to play games, show me the games. I'm certainly not going to blow $600 on the PS3 just because it plays Blu-Ray movies.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
For example if I were to get a 360, I'd probably eye an elite. Reason being I have a DLP TV which likes HDMI input. Also, I might opt to instead hook it to my computer monitor, which also likes digital input the best.
However the vast majority of people still don't have HDTVs (and some that do have tubes or older models that don't sport HDMI) and thus it isn't something they care about.
I don't think it is really marketed as an upgrade for those that have 360s, I think it is more to try and draw in more of the hi-def crowd. I know a couple people who expressed some reservations about the lack of HDMI.
As for HD-DVD, I don't think it is really that useful. In fact that think the addon is kinda retarded in general. If I get a game console, it is because I want to play games. I've seen people use them for DVD players, it is annoying. None of them have as nice an interface as a real DVD player. I'm sure there is a market of people who want both and want to save money, but I'd bet it isn't all that large, at least not enough to justify the cost.
I could be wrong, of course, but that would be my thinking if I were choosing features for such a device.
I almost dropped to the floor when I saw this announcement. Imagine my disappointment when I realised that this was not a new port of my favourite game from the 80's to the home console market.
Does this mean that the name "Elite" can be used to market games again, not sure Mr Braben would agree...
Perhaps finally all legal differences could be settled and the best space trading game could be in everyones home again :-)
Jez
Just buy a PS3 instead. Sony are happy to heavily subsidise the hardware for you, and won't even complain if you don't buy any games or movies for it.
Or, better still, port your signal processing code to a GPU instead. They're much cheaper and far more powerful than a Cell, and with far more local memory bandwidth too. GPUs aren't ideal for every algorithm, but they do work well for many forms of signal processing.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
That's right, audio. While HDMI clearly presents a slight improvement for video (analog vs digital...), its real benefit is next generation audio support. While HDMI is a true digital picture and will give us a slightly better image, this improvement is negligible for the vast majority of people. With HD DVD content sporting DD+/TrueHD, and DTS HD audio that currently can't be handled over optical, HDMI provides us with a way of supporting that... Not that there's a whole lot of receivers that support those yet, but they'll be more available soon enough. You may think your A52/AC3 5.1 dolby digital compressed surround sound is good, but uncompressed TrueHD/DTS HD BLOWS IT AWAY. With even a half decent sound system, movies spring to life with the new audio formats.. Once you watch a film with a TrueHD or DTS HD audio track enabled, you wont be able to go back to "crappy" compressed Dolby Digital. Obviously, it depends on the mixing and the original soundtrack for the film your watching, but from what I've heard so far it's a real improvement across the board.
And, as much as I hate DRM, ultimately the decision to flag HD DVDs to downconvert over component is up to the movie studios... And... should they go that route in the future (I don't see it happening, especially now that HD DVD is compromised...), M$ will be ready with HDCP compliant HDMI.
appleguru.org
I saw the title and thought "at last! David Braben's going to make the game!".
I am so disappointed..
(How he could do it well without Ian Bell is anyones guess however)
The target audience obviously isn't anyone who already has an XBox 360, for that matter.
If so, that is a huge problem for Microsoft - because they already have all the people that are the "core gamers", that buy systems early. How are they going to convince the more casual remainder to go to a system that is even labeled as "elite"?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How about discontuing the 20 gig and sell the 120 gig for $100 or less. Throw the owners of the better looking pro 360 a bone. Guess if MS won't sell a 120 gig drive for a reasonable price I'll save my money and not download shit from Live that I would need the 120 gig for. Thanks for saving me money MS!
$180 for 120GB hdd is a bit steep, hopefully the Elite hdd signature can be used to replace the original 20GB hdd with a generic 120GB hdd. :)
Now that it's got HDMI all we need is XBMC on it
The really funny thing is that well before we see XBMC running on this, it will be up and running on the AppleTV!
The AppleTV has a smaller drive, but you can replace the drive on an AppleTV and it's much smaller and quieter (probably even than the Elite).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
n/t
I understand they weren't gonna canibalize sales of their $100 wireless adaptor, but c'mon, they could have included HD-DVD in the thing... $80 more for an extra 100GB and HDMI?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Who asked for $500 PS3?
By all means it seems MS has heard you!
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I would be happy to agree that the XBox rocks, but I have one glaring problem: I hate the controller. I have never liked the XBox controller and it's not for the lack of trying. But it just feels clumsy compared to the PlayStation's. I know that others will not understand this and probably think it silly if they don't have the same problem, but really the controller is the interface to everything. And if one doesn't feel comfortable with it, then everything else is moot. I think game machine designers should take note of that and consider offering a variety of controllers types.
:T:R:A:N:S:
I just got my 360 a few weeks ago. About 3 weeks if I recall. Now I'm out of date, something that Apple does to me on a regular basis.
Oh well. The HDMI I can probably live without even though I have a TV that supports it. The bigger hard drive would certainly be nice though. I think the reason for the HDMI has less to do with "hey, this is cool, high-res and digital" and more to do with "hey, you're using HDCP now!".
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
First you say it's not worth buying, then you say people are going to be pissed off that they didn't buy one. Which is it?
Personally, I have no problem with extra choices (though some people do). I just want a bigger HDD - and I'd rather not pay US$180 for it, thanks MS, m'kay?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
... eventually replacing the standard 360? They say it's going to stay a separate new SKU, but MS also denied that the Elite existed in the first place.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. For different people there's no right or wrong controller. I love the XBox Controller-S (I hated the original, big, clunky one) so much that I use it to play PC games (WoW-360 mod for World of Warcraft, FPS games, not RTS though lol) as well as XBox games. I think the fact that it has triggers are pretty intuitive for FPS shooters as well as nice offset control sticks. I have a hard time using the PS2 controllers (which I also have) as I can't stand the shoulder buttons. That's just my hand preference though. Ultimately it would be nice if the controllers were somewhat compatible with each other so people can use whatever controller they want.
And not because HDMI looks better than component either.. just because I ran out of component ports in my TV but I still have an HDMI one!
My TV's got 2 HDMI, 2 Component, and 3 composite inputs.. it's also got one optical audio out which plugs in nicely to my cheapo receiver's one optical audio in.
Currently, I have my cable box hooked up via HDMI, my Xbox 360 and Wii via component, my old modded xbox and chessvision! via composite. It's all fine, except my old xbox looks like crap on composite! AND, my xbox 360 isn't using 5.1 audio (which would be nice for the HD DVD drive!)
Finally! I'll be able to move the xbox 360 to HDMI, meaning digital surround sound audio, and move my old xbox to component, meaning it's hd again! And, I've already got an HD DVD drive, so no big deal it doesn't come with it, and, I've got an ethernet cable so not too big a deal it doesn't come with wireless (though I REALLY don't understand why not.. actually wait, I do! It's because IPTV isn't going to work for crap over wireless.. so they want everybody to hook up their xboxes with real cable!)
Just sayin'...
$479... That's cheaper than the premium bundle at £299... oh, wait...
We Brits love taking it up the arse. Fortunately, I am leaving soon, but I pity those other unfortunates.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
What, because they launched a special edition?
Minus the black, this will be the standard machine and the standard price in 6 months.
Dammit, and I was hoping this was going to be an announcement that an updated Elite game was going to be released on the 360. That could almost have tempted me to buy one.
Well there is an entire games publisher called "Elite(R)" (I think the name was chosen in a C+VG readers' contest back in the days of type-in listings). They are still going (since 1984) with original people. Their 200 SKUs outnumber Mr Braben's masterpieces anyway. So they might have a better claim to be upset with microsoft than braben or bell.
I'll agree that the original XBox controllers were sub-par, but the 360 controller is pretty much the perfect blend of size, shape, and weight. They got it 99.9% right (I wish start / select were a little further removed from Guide).
Try one if you haven't. It's night & day.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
The DRM support *is* the benefit that Microsoft sees into the new XBox.
See, for this new generations of consoles, there are two route to provide newer home video experience.
The current problems are
For that to work, the console needs to have :
o some DRM compliant piece of shit (hence the HDCP)
o bigger drives to hold the downloaded movie for the period of time that is allowed.
The rest they have it already
What Microsoft could earn
For me, the Elite version looks exactly like the HD-DVD add-on : nothing more than a technique to have a foot into the potentially lucrative market of HD movie. In fact, Microsoft has officially made a public statement that they don't inted to release special HD-DVD games.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
The Financial Times cites an analyst that claims that not including HD-DVD is an acknowledgement by MS that Blu-ray will win the format war against HD-DVD.
- price $3600
will not work with the present xbox games you have, will not work with the present tv you have. you have to buy at least $1500 worth LCD or Plasma to be able to play games with it. also, the new Xbox 360 Elite Live Family Special Business will be much slower in any operation than its predecessors, but rest assured you will have an easy mind knowing that copyrights of major companies are protected with it.
Read radical news here
Feels like Microsoft is taking a page out of it's Windows business and putting it into the XBox 360. Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate... sound familiar? Not to mention tying in games development with Windows so developers feel the need to appeal to a greater audience and therefore develop for the Xbox/PC platform. All this sounds to reminiscent of what it's done to the PC market to the detriment of other platforms like Linux.
I'm going to wait for the "Super Mega Hugmoungous Elite XBox 10k Vista Pro Ultimate" edition that M$ will release next...you know, when they feel sales are starting to flag. It'll make ice cubes too!!
/. folks didn't see this coming (and the constant string of "must have" upgrades that M$ will keep releasing in the months/years to come). Console gaming cheaper than PC? Pft, I'll give it 3-5 years before M$ "fix" that little problem...
I'd be semi amazed if any regular
One of the complaints I had about the PS3 was that, once you bought the cheaper SKU, you're locked into it, unable to "upgrade" it to the more expensive one, which contrasted with the difference between the two versions of the Xbox 360. With this addition of this HDMI port, one that can't be added to the console that's sitting on my shelf, however, the Xbox 360 loses this advantage.
However, this probably won't affect sales of the Xbox 360 one way or the other. Current owners aren't likely to run out and buy a second Xbox 360 because of it, but they won't be getting rid of their old one either. The real problem, however, will be in a few years when it's time to release the next generation of consoles, and customers start saying "I'm really looking forward to the next Xbox, but I think I'll wait a year or so after launch for the 'elite' version to come out."
You'd think if they were relegating themselves to re-packaging their flagship console, Microsoft would include the HD-DVD drive. They've already 'committed' to HD-DVD by releasing the dongle for the regular 360's, are they backing down? Would that make it an the PS3 such polar forces that them sharing the same entertainment center would cause a rift in space-time survivable only by insertion of a Wii into the gap?
Sorry.
I see this being the first in a chain of minor revisions. How many current 360 owners will buy this one - then the next one with HD-DVD, then the following one with Coax audio, et al.
Still just wish they had included the HD-DVD.
Except err, some sites are now reporting that ISN'T the case despite that being touted as part of the rumour on gaming sites everywhere)...
From Gizmondo:
Microsoft told us there would be no new hardware inside the Elite except for that 120GB hard drive, alluding to the often-rumored cooler-running processors manufactured with the 65nm process
I wanted to get one, and was going to give my existing 360 to someone I know who has kids but can't afford a console, and having it run more quietly was a big part of the attraction for me bothering to get a new 360. My TV already handles component well, and that leaves the bigger HD as the only compelling feature (I filled up my 20 GB for the first time ages ago and that's just with Live! games, demo's and trailers - TV/Movie downloads won't be available here in the UK till later this year).
On it's own, a large HD (that I could get separately) is not a compelling enough reason for me to upgrade. The thing is, I like my 360 and I'm happy to pay a bit more for an improved version of the hardware.
While releasing a Xbox 360 Elite is a great idea, I feel that it's too early for it to come out. If you look at the extra add-ons you get an extra 100GB on your hard drive which will eventually be "must have" for serious Xbox players (Oblivion's expansion pack requires close to 1GB of space). The HDMI cables aren't a big deal to me (and probably a large percentage of 360 ownners) since I don't have a HDTV yet. While releasing an Xbox with HDMI cables is a great idea, the major addition that seems to be lacking from the Elite pack is the HD Drive. If you're going to release an "Elite" Xbox, shouldn't you have all the main accessories? It seems as if Microsoft decided not to include the drive due to cost reasons. I feel that they should have waited until they were able to produce the HD Elite version at a cheaper price and include the HD Drive in it. They tried to embrace the HD market, but excluding the HD drive from this edition might hurt them.
What happen to the Elite having an HD DVD player installed?
Live life to the fullest, you only get one chance at it.
I'm also very picky about controllers (I NEVER like 3rd party ones) but I love the 360 controller. The PS style one is fine, but I think the 360's is my favorite now-a-days and I have to agree with the last guy who mentioned the triggers, I think they feel much better for FPSs (which currently dominate the game genre lately).
Sorry, a little new to the game on the Xbox Live Video, but why are they promoting it in conjunction with HD-DVD?
Why invest in an HD-DVD player when 720p looks darn good?
For that matter, why even invest in HD-DVD or Blu-ray if HD downloading is here? (granted you need high speed access and time to download)
With AppleTV, XBLV,...it seems like the HD-DVD/Blu-ray is the "mini-disc" step before mp3s became the format of choice.
Though I go agree the Adapter is overpriced it should be noted that it does 802.11 b/g & a. Routers that use the faster 'a' protocol cost more than the b & g ones, but yeah... it shouldn't be $99.
i don't care about the color of the console or HDMI. i was looking forward to a processor that didn't act as a space heater in my room and a DVD player that didn't sound like an airbus taking off. i guess i'll have to wait a little longer for normal room temperature and decibel level....
Am I the only one who feels insulted by this comment?
"We don't feel like the Wii customer and the Xbox customer are the same thing," he said. "We think that as soon as the Wii customer turns 14 they want something else."
This seems like hes trying to say that the only people that buy a wii are kids under 14. I for one find this offensive. Since when does a game have to show extreme violence, language and nudity just to not be lumped into the "for kids" arena?
There are a bit of fun games for the wii that arent "for kids" such as COD and Trauma Center. Just because nintendo ends up being the console that most "child friendly" developers choose does NOT mean the system is for kids
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
I'm probably a rare case but I've been waiting for HDMI before I buy a 360. Why? Because I have an older 23" LCD monitor with only DVI-d input that is currently sitting next to my desk waiting to be hooked to a console.
As the poster with no free component inputs mentioned, the economics of spending an extra $80 on the console compares very favorably with the other options. The extra $80 for the Elite with HDMI plus a few bucks for a HDMI to DVI cable gets me up and running on my existing hardware compared to the possibilities with a non-HDMI 360: sinking a couple hundred dollars for a VGA to DVI-d converter box or hundreds of dollars for a new monitor or HDTV.
Why not buy a PS3? Because the 360 has the games I want to play (and at reasonable prices used) and watching movies on my console is not a priority. I'll buy an HD-DVD or BR player in a few years when they can be had for $40 and the movies are $5-10 each.
I'd be surprised if it even takes 6 months.
But they should've been advertising this as a limited edition.
It blunts the bad reaction when you realize MS is just charging the more-money-than-sense crowd $80 for black.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
I also sympathize with you on the "feel" of a controller that we get used to. I have the opposite problem (can't play with a PS2 controller because I'm too used to the Xbox-style controller). I'm showing my age here, but I remember being very frustrated with the original NES controllers too, since I was so used to the Atari/Commodore style joysticks. I actually bought a "thumbstick" adapter for the NES controller just to get the joystick "feel" back. I never could get used to the flat pad controller.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Ok so it might work reliably now. The beta test is over and the actual product is shipping.
;-)
only half a
Maybe it's just me. I don't have a TV that supports HDMI. I don't care to replace all my DVDs with BluRay or HD-DVDs, or all my component video / digital audio cables with HDMI ones. So, "Elite"?.... meh.
What I keep asking myself is "Why now?" I mean these features had been announced for the PS3 for over a year now at least. Did it just take MS this long to copy Sony? Or was it a conscious decision to wait until Sony launched the PS3? I mean the PS3 has been sitting on store shelves for months with more integrated features than the "Elite" 360, and it has only recently received positive attention with the announcement of "Home" and their Second Life clone. So after the public has given a lukewarm reaction to HDMI and a larger hard drive on their competitor's console, they decide to jump in with a "Me Too"? At a higher (w/ HD-DVD and wireless) overall price?
I don't get it.
Despite being a long-term Mac user and owning a 5G iPod, I still consider the XBox 360 as being the far more worthwhile set-top device when faced with the Apple TV. Apple TV may look pretty, but it lacks several key elements that could keep the Apple TV out of the hands of the non-Mac using population.
First, it seems almost too dependent on iTunes. If you look around at some of the early adopter reports, you can't access your iTMS paid content without at least one copy of the content stored on the machine your Apple TV box is synced with... even if you copy the files directly onto the Apple TV drive itself and give it internet access to verify the files with iTMS before playback. (For most Mac users, this means having the files crowding your primary HD.) This is a limitation that even most iPod users don't have to face.
Next, there's no support for us non-HDTV users who are perfectly comfortable using their current low-definition displays. If Microsoft would only open the 360's supported playback codecs to included several of the non-Windows Media content formats common to the typical Mac user, utilities like Connect360 would become significantly more useful in allowing Microsoft to take control of the market. Otherwise such users are just going to invest in a 5G iPod and a remote-control based interface to get around the lack of low-definition support.
Finally, the 360 has the added value of games. Not just the fancy 3D titles, but the entire XBox Live Arcade collection. The Apple TV docs specifically say it won't support the 5G iPod games (a huge mistake, IMHO), and the 5G iPods themselves won't play these games on any other screen than the built-in display. One should never completely overlook gaming options when trying to pitch a set-top box to non-techie users. It's hard to explain the value of a $300-400 device that isn't merely a DVD player or a game machine.
Side-by-side, the XBox 360 is just going to put on a much better show, simply baded on features alone. If it wasn't for the fact that I don't particularly need an all-in-one set-top media player setup, I'd probably be giving the new 360 model some consideration. However, given that the file size restrictions for XBox Live Arcade downloads is much more lax now, users may quickly find themselves needing more than 20GB of storage.
As for the media content, something like a slingbox-connected Mac Mini could handle most of what Apple TV already does, only without the imposed annoyances.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Well an actually limited edition elite would be kinda cool. Now it's just an expensive version of same.
I'm saving up for the X360 and I was going to get the Elite because I naturally assumed that it would have the new 65 nm CPU. But nooo...
I will probably end up buying a Premium when they start incorporating 65 nm CPUs into them. I like the white color and I have no need for a 120 Gb HDD, and probably no need for HDMI either. Just how long can it take for MS to get the new CPUs into production?
I was waiting to buy an XBox until they came out with one that had a built in HD-DVD player. I want a new DVD player that can play HD DVDs, and if I can get a decent gaming console at the same time, more power to me. I was expecting the "refresh" to have this built in. I don't want a separate box hanging around. And I want the DVD player functionality to be well integrated.
Do I have to wait for an "Ultimate" version? Or am I S.O.L. when I want something so *obvious*?
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
As a long-time PC gamer, I can't bring myself to buy an XBox 360 at all. Every time I look at one, I'm reminded that under the fancy plastic casing, it's just a rather non-upgradeable PC inside. There's *never* going to be a single piece of software developed for XBox 360 that can't run identically on a modern PC, because they're using the same architecture. (Of course, the modern PC could very well have a *superior* video card and more RAM....)
I did, however, buy a PS3 - because the hardware is different. A Blue-Ray drive is something I didn't own yet on any of my hardware, for one thing. And the PowerPC cell architecture is sufficiently different from any PC or Mac I own to make me feel like I'm not just buying the same old thing again, repackaged in a different shell.
I agree that PS3 content is sorely lacking right now - but it sounds like Sony is taking a pretty long-term view for the PS3 consoles. The last line of their quote in the original article commented on the "value" of buying a PS3 that you'd keep "for the next 10 years". Sure, some of that is just marketing-speak, but it also indicates they envision the PS3 as hardware that will be around for a while.
I wouldn't say the ports of XBox games for PS3 are "pathetic" though. NHL Hockey '07 was highly rated in every online review I saw. I bought it and I'm impressed with it too. Same with Tiger Woods golf. You're certainly not seeing evidence that it's a "poor" port. Runs every bit as well as the 360 version.
What I really wanted was the new CPU's that apparently run cooler then the existing ones, and I think from what I read on Engadget the Elite won't have em yet. HDMI and a real hard drive would have been nice, but I'm gonna keep on waiting me thinks. And right now my 8 year old TV only supports S-Video anyway until I upgrade later this year.
While i agree that a variety of controllers should be available, i don't understand your fascination with the Playstation controller. To me the Playstation controller is nothing more than a generic input device much like the SNES/Classic Controller from Nintendo. They both have a symetrical design that works, but fails to "fit" into your hands. I'm a fan of the Gamecube Controllers as well as the Xbox 360 Controllers for the fact that they conform to your grip. The Xbox 360 Controller not only fits right, but the analog/button placement is dead on. It seems to me that many people just have a hard time adopting a new controller when the ones they're so familiar with (playstation/snes) feel "the best."
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Anyone know if it will upconvert standard DVDs via the HDMI port? My upconverting player just died so may I'll put the money toward this and a trade-in of my launch console that's tooooo loud.
If 1/5th of current XB360 users (the one's who are concerned with being 1337!) trade in their regular 360 to get this one, then they will sell ~ 2 million extra 360s. It's all about number cushioning and exploiting the customer, two things which Microsoft has proven to be fully proficient at.
Can we start referring to them as M$ again now? Or is that still not kosher due to the numerous Halo freaks out there? All I have to say is my PS3 with Linux/BitTorrent puts this thing to shame. If you want an OPEN media player, Sony delievered the goods. Not Apple, not Microsoft. I wish more people would look at the PS3 for what it is, because it was like fully designed to appeal to the average Slashdotter. The 360's popularity around here just proves that all the whining you guys do about proprietary formats, ugly business tactics, and featureless products is all just that: whining. When an open, powerful, and feature packed home Linux machine (the PS3) is released to the public you complain about its price and support the Windows competitor. Did you forget why Billy boy is represented by a Borg? Did you forget about embrace (XBox), extend (360), extinguish (DirectX/XNA)?
This is the first time Linux has had a chance to make a breakthrough into the home market and the Slashdot geeks - who spend hundreds of dollars on phones, thousands of dollars on video cards and other computer upgrades, and attempts to install Linux on everything from iPods to toasters, won't be the early adopters for the Linux box. Way to screw over everything you believe in for a couple games of Halo.
I believe the HDMI is still going on the Premium as well (in the next few weeks or so).
The larger HD might actually be useful to you (although YMMV - a lot of other people don't seem bothered about it). I filled up my 20 GB ages ago (some of the demo's are 1-2 GB - and I've got a bunch of free video content on it too now, Live has reasonable amount of cool stuff on it).
It's in need of a hardware improvement soon though I think - it really is noisy (much more than my Mac Mini is). I don't notice it when playing games, but when I leave it on downloading a bunch of new demos and am watching TV it can be (especially if I'm watching later at night, with the volume turned down). Not sure what the PS3 is like - anyone care to comment?
The Wii is very quiet, but then it doesn't have much right to be noisy. 8)
You can capture from HDMI just fine, if it's not HDCP, which games wouldn't be.
Check out the Blackmagic Design BHDINT Intensity board ($249).
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HDMI-1 cable to plugin and run all my stuff. no need for 5 cables, 5 plugs even if they are all bundled together. 1 simple easy cable
Bigger HD-20GB is not enough. HD content alone would fill that up in a few shows. 120GB I now have breathing room to use this.
Quieter DVD- I believe this is coming with the new gen DVD player that is a helluva lot quieter than the previous one.
Cooler CPU- I heard there is a die shrink. Is this one that qualifies on it? I hope so. I hate the furnace that the existing one is.
Black- my 47" LCD tv is black, Reciever is black, stand is black, speakers black, smokey glass cover hides most displays but that garish xbox360. Black appeals to the eye.
All in all when the prices drops to the current level of platinum I'll get it. I don't care about wireless A/B/G. I'll get an adaptor for it if I so choose as I don't do online games or connect for updates. I leave it offline.
If the bundled the HD player in with it, then it'd be so hard not to splurge on it right away. sigh...
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For me, the noise level is the one thing that might convince me to upgrade, if it actually is quieter. Whether or not it includes the new processor, it could have better sound insulation, for example.
Am I the only one who is a little ticked that Microsoft is just now releasing this? If I would have known that Microsoft was going to release a "better" version of the 360, I would have held off and purchased this elite package instead of the premium. For another $80 and just a few months of waiting I could have purchased the top 360 package which I would have been pleased with. Now I feel like I am a little screwed because I didn't wait long enough to adopt something that I thought was already "finished." I would have thought that Microsoft would have offered some sort of rebate program for those who had already adopted their 360. You know, return their premium 360 and receive an elite 360 for a reduced price. I'm quite disappointed to say the least.
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It's also interesting there is some speculation has already started over weather Microsoft will release a Blu-ray add-on now. I have to say I agree with the articles coming out this 'validates' the PS3. I know several people that got the '20GB model' and upgraded the HDD for more capacity. Here's an article I didn't see linked above:
= 23840
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid
MS will drop the price of the 120GB hard drive as soon as all Core 360 SKUs are off the market, so that people who don't care about HDMI won't go buying a Core + hard drive at the same price as an Elite 360.
Think about it, if the new hard drive cost less than $180, then it would make sense for new 360 buyers who don't need HDMI to buy a Core 360 and an accompanying drive at a cheaper price than the Elite 360, whereas with the current price points it's a better option for them to splurge on an Elite. This is product positioning 101, always make the case for the upsell!
Is it safe to assume that there isn't a new processor yet? I can see them deciding not to emphasize that in a press release: "NEW - no longer melts your circuit board!". Maybe it's in there but they couldn't find a way to spin it without admitting to mistakes.
If someone has confirmation either way, I'd love to hear it. Yeah, I want a gaming machine but more importantly I want a v2 media extender and don't want to strain to hear my shows over the cooling fans.
Why did you buy ports of the XBox 360 games for the PS3 when you, as you stipulate, could have bought them on a PC?
Is it because playing some games on a console is more fun? If so, then what is the difference between a PS3 and an XBox 360 again?
Of course the PS3 will be around in ten years, it'll just be two hardware cycles behind the PS5.
...will still continue to sell out at maximum production until it sells 8-12 million units. If it rides into that near Christmas 2007, it'll get a big enough spike to keep selling out right until January, maybe adding an extra 2-3 million units on top of that before the market relaxes.
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The PS3 is very quiet, 780p videos and games demos are available on the store. You can queue downloads but they seem to pause when you play a game or go online. The video playback for DVD/BD/mpegs are top notch. They beat my standalone panasonic player for quality althought he standalone plays a few more formats (some avi, vcd).
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
As a long-time PC gamer, I can't bring myself to buy an XBox 360 at all. Every time I look at one, I'm reminded that under the fancy plastic casing, it's just a rather non-upgradeable PC inside.
WTF?
The original Xbox really is a non-upgradeable PC in a box. x86 chip even. But the 360 uses a custom triple-core PowerPC chip. So IMHO the Xbox 360 is a non-upgradeable PC exactly as much as a Playstation 3 is a non-upgradeable PC.
Buy what you want, but your stated rationale makes no sense at all.
..the 133760
And it's too bad, too. I'll wait.
From http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158254
Nitty gritty details aside, Penello did say the console is "the same." The almost-a-year-old announcement of a revised chipset -- one that will have the 360 running cooler and quieter -- hasn't bore fruit just yet, as the Elite SKU features the same 90 nm chip currently in Xbox 360 hardware.
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There are certainly some advantages to having HDMI over component:
1. Higher audio and video quality. As someone else mentioned, audio quality is significantly better whereas video only offers marginal improvements.
2. HDCP. While it isn't an issue right now, eventually it may become a requirement. If the output protection flag ever gets set then users will be screwed if they don't have a fully compliant video path. This is especially important for STB features for which many of the premium content providers will refuse to offer their content unless you have a protected video path (ex. Cablelabs, HBO and discovery). Whether or not this would actually prevent piracy is another issue altogether, but the fact is the content providers want it.
3. Gives users more options. If you only have one component input but two devices that use component (blu-ray/hd-dvd player, nintendo wii) then you have the OPTION of using HDMI for the 360 instead of constantly swapping the plugs in the back. Giving the user more options isn't a bad thing
4. There is only one input instead of FIVE (3 video and 2 audio). Its a pain in the ass to connect 5 colour coded cables especially if your LCD TV is mounted on a wall, is heavy as hell and you cannot see which input is which in the back because of limited space.
5. Less susceptibility to noise since it's a digital signal (although this is somewhat disputable)
As for the 120GB hard drive there are PLENTY of reasons to have more space:
1. If you download lots of video content from the Live marketplace such as full-length movies, tv shows, music videos, game add-ons, etc, then you need a lot of space. Some games and addons such as episodic content, mods, user created games and casual games are available exclusively for download and of course require a lot of space.
2. Eventually Microsoft will be releasing it's IPTV service which will allow users to use their 360 as a PVR. Obviously this requires plenty of space.
3. More room to store your own music and videos.
So stop spewing garbage like "only idiots would be buy this machine". There are plenty of good reasons for many people to go out and buy it, even if they don't apply to you directly.
A pendantic note:
The Xbox also uses PPC cores. Direct X API's make it easy to port but the hardware is not the same as a PC. Although 360 games tend to be PC style games, I can understand what you mean. The details however is that both the Ps3 and 360 and Wii use PPC cores. Likely due to their power efficiancy, thermal efficiancy, and size.
PS. I own a PS3 and I like it very much. Now if only FFXIII and MGS4 would come out tommorow.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
This "under the hood" argument is just plain silly.
The PC gaming market, with the exception of RTS, FPS, and MMOG games, has largely become the ghetto of gaming. If you are interested in really big budget titles (with the exception of the afformentioned genres), then you unfortunately have no other option but to buy a 360 or PS3. Sorry, but market forces have made it thus. Same goes for last generation (PS2, Xbox, GC) as well.
I imagine that 20 Gb is sufficient for disposable content like demos and videos.
I noticed the PS3 vs. Xbox 360 value comparison by 1UP, and I can't figure out what they were thinking. If I want to play Advanced Warfighter, R6 Vegas, Gears of War, Halo 3 and Mass Effect, what the hell is the "value" of the PS3? You would think a gaming site would know better, but apparently it's all about the hardware and accessories. The quality of a console is defined first and foremost by its games, the rest is secondary.
I'm waiting for the Xbox 360 Elite eXtreme.
I was, indeed, still thinking of the original XBox. Now that you point it out, I *do* recall reading that the 360 was going to the PPC architecture ... but the fact just didn't stick in my head, I guess.
In any case, I still can't help but view it as more like a standard PC than the competition. Perhaps that's partially because Microsoft manufactures them, and tends to only release game title that are "PC like" for it? But you're still getting a little more "exotic" hardware out of a PS3 purchase (blue-ray drive and all).
The smart thing to do is just get a used 360, add the HDMI cables and swap out the puny HD with a normal 300 gigger for $100.
Should be very easy with all of these early adopters tossing their original units.
I wonder what the reason is to bring the "Elite" version out...
1) They are trying to phase out the core 360s, so developers don't have to program for them. Bringing an "Elite" version will make the Core version seem that much inadequate, thereby dissuading people from buying it.
2) They are trying to compete against the PS3. By saying they have a larger hard drive, they can claim an upper hand to the non-technical people who associate a bigger hard drive as the most important factor.
3) Downloading content will be a key part of their strategy. 20 GB isn't enough for their future plans.
I relate to what you're saying. I always bought arcade sticks for my consoles. NES, Genesis, SNES and finally Playstation 1. Once it got to playstation 1, there were just too many buttons for an arcade stick. Once the dual shock came out I was real happy with it, and i use the dual schock 2 for a lot of pc games. Even the GTA series i'll walk around with keyboard/mouse, then switch to the dual shock to drive with. I can see the use for the dreamcast-style triggers that the xbox, 360 and ps3 use, but frankly when i'm racing it tends to be pedal-to-the-metal anyway, and prefer a normal button.
What I do like about the 360 controller is that it came out far enough before the Wii that they didn't try to integrate some half-assed gyroscope. Every ps3 game I've tried that made use of it just felt forced and unwanted. That being said, I'm sure they'll find a good use for it eventually, I'd just rather use the analog stick to steer than being made to "lean".
Ironically, I feel the same way about the PS3. The Playstation controller is based on the SNES design , and in the PS1 era they had the analogs bolted on mid-life. It's a 10 year old design that is suited best for 2D games, not 3D. This is why I wasn't upset for the Wii Classic controller. It is a superior design for the retro titles that are pretty much 2D prior to the N64. For the N64 games, I use a wavebird.
There is a reason why Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sega put the analog in the primary position. For 3D games it offers superior control in a position that's comfortable. (IE: That's where it belongs.)
> While HDMI clearly presents a slight improvement for video (analog vs digital...), its real benefit is next generation audio support.
:/
And next generation DRM, which is why I'm avoiding it like the plague
I'm waiting for the Xbox 360 Elite eXtreme.
I'm waiting for the Xbox 370.
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
The HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war is FAR from over my friend, be careful with your predictions.
Like this one?
I predict that in about four months, Universal will make an announcement they are also going to sell Blu-Ray movies (in addition to HD-DVD titles).
The simply fact is that current DVD Emporium figures show Blu-Ray now outselling HD-DVD titles about 70% to 30%, trended Amazon data agrees with this assesment.
As a greater number of big movies come online for Blu-Ray (like Pirates of the Carribean coming out this summer) that spread will only increase.
There are rumors of large chains coming close to simply not offering HD-DVD in stores. Best-Buy already pushes Blu-Ray very heavily.
Universal cannot afford to chuck a whole Christmas season of next-gen video profits into the dumpster - for economic reasons alone they will be forced to offer Blu-Ray options for popular titles.
I also highly doubt a Blu-Ray accessory will ever be available for the 360 since by the time the war is over (if Blu-Ray wins) then low cost Blu-Ray players will most likely be available so why would you buy one that only works with a 360?
Ask Microsoft, they are the ones that want the 360 to be a media hub. They would offer a Blu-Ray player for the same reason they offer a cheap HD-DVD option today, it's just the add-on at that point would be $50 and not $200. But it's pretty clear why they are not building HD-DVD into the console, so they have that option.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
600K. Wow.
That brings them up to what, a fifth of the 360's sales? Half the Wii's sales?
(note: I don't own either version of the X-Box, nor do I own a PS3 or a Wii.)
How can the war be over when high def DVD players account for less than 1% of all DVD player sales? Did you know that sales of ACTUAL high def DVD players have 200,000 HD-DVD players sold vs. 30,000 Blu-Ray players? You really can't count all of the PS3 sales in there since not everyone who has one uses it for a Blu-Ray player. The fact is it is still much cheaper to make HD-DVD players and HD-DVD media than it is to make the Blu-Ray counterparts. In my opinion the winner will be the first camp to get a cheap ($100-200) player available in Wal-Mart and HD-DVD has the edge there since the parts are cheaper.
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I just did a quick check of Wal-Mart's available HD DVD players and they have a HD-DVD player for $378 while the Blu-Ray player is $898. Hmm, I wonder which one I would buy if I was on a budget. Here are the players:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=54
The simply fact is that current DVD Emporium figures show Blu-Ray now outselling HD-DVD titles about 70% to 30%, trended Amazon data agrees with this assesment.
Wow, I wonder how those numbers came about. Could it be all of the free vouchers for Blu-Ray discs that Sony gave away to purchasers of the PS3? While that is a significant percentage difference if you look at how it got that way you should come to the conclusion that the numbers have been fudged a little do to the free vouchers.
Ask Microsoft, they are the ones that want the 360 to be a media hub. They would offer a Blu-Ray player for the same reason they offer a cheap HD-DVD option today, it's just the add-on at that point would be $50 and not $200. But it's pretty clear why they are not building HD-DVD into the console, so they have that option.
The reason they did not build the HD drive into the unit was because they didn't want to drive the price of it up and thats it. I can't find the article but there was someone at MS who was quoted saying that they didn't include it in the Elite version for the very fact that they wanted to give the users a choice instead of automatically driving the price up. If you look at this http://www.technewsworld.com/rsstory/56565.html there is this quote:
"Adding an HD DVD drive, now available as a plug-in accessory, "would have raised the Xbox cost another $200 and that would have gone over [the] PS3 price"
Why would it go over the PS3 cost? Because Sony is selling the PS3 at a pretty hefty loss to them. MS doesn't want to go that route and would instead just like to give the user the choice to spend the extra $200.
I also think that more people will purchase the HD-DVD drive once Halo 3 is released since it sounds like it will be an HD-DVD exclusive title. This will then add more potential players to the market and may result in increased HD-DVD movie sales.
Either way even if they had included the HD-DVD drive they still would have "had the option" to offer a Blu-Ray add-on if they wished. They did not leave the HD-DVD drive out because they are worried the format is going to die.
Believe what you wish but the fact remains that the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war is far from over and it is much too early to declare a winner.
Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
How can the war be over when high def DVD players account for less than 1% of all DVD player sales?
Because the war is between HD formats, not SD DVD. If one of two formats enjoys a 70% sales lead, an order of magnitude lead in players in people's homes, and a studio lead that includes Disney/Pixar and Sony, how do you suggest that equation is going to work out for anything but disaster for HD-DVD?
I just did a quick check of Wal-Mart's available HD DVD players and they have a HD-DVD player for $378 while the Blu-Ray player is $898. Hmm, I wonder which one I would buy if I was on a budget.
Neither. That's why people are buying PS3's instead. Why would you buy even a $400 HD-DVD player with hardly any content?
On the other hand, 600k PS3's sold in the EU in just two days. How many of those "cheap" HD-DVD players sold in that same timeframe - in the whole world? Was it even 60k? It may even be closer to 6k than 60k. Even if only a small percentage of PS3 owners use the device to play movies, that small percentage in terms of pure numbers is growing much faster than HD-DVD sales.
I also think that more people will purchase the HD-DVD drive once Halo 3 is released since it sounds like it will be an HD-DVD exclusive title.
I have suspected that would be the case but many people do not think that possibiliy exists - Microsoft has said many times that games will not require HD-DVD. I think that will be more of an HD-DVD special edition of the game with more content or erhaps just extras - but it doesn't matter, because by the time Halo 3 is out the format war is even more over than it looks to be already, again due to the numbers I listed above.
Either way even if they had included the HD-DVD drive they still would have "had the option" to offer a Blu-Ray add-on if they wished. They did not leave the HD-DVD drive out because they are worried the format is going to die.
You're right about that - they were not worried at all. They knew HD-DVD was dead but.... they no longer care, since the 360 is now a vessel for IPTV. That is what they care about dominating, they have even said they believe these to be the last physical formats we will see (they are wrong, but that does not matter for now).
Believe what you wish but the fact remains that the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war is far from over and it is much too early to declare a winner.
If you can describe a plausable scenario in which HD-DVD can back themselves out of even one of the three fatal flaws for the format I listed at the start of this message, people might start to believe that. But there is simply no way to do so, no way to overcome the mass advantage that Blu-Ray has given itself and is now in a virtuous feedback loop. More PS3's sold means more Blu-Ray movies sold means more releases from studios means more PS3's sold. And people come to the PS3 for games or movies, giving them an even greater spectrum of people to sell to.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley