Slashdot Mirror
QuickTime .MOV + Toshiba + Vista = BSOD
Question Guy writes "Apple QuickTime is involved in a troubling problem that doesn't seem to be addressed by any of the major software and hardware manufacturers involved. On Toshiba machines, such as the Protege Tablet M400s, with Windows Vista installed, opening a locally stored QuickTime .MOV causes instant bluescreen. All other video functions seem to be working in other video playback types — even streaming .MOVs work — and there is little to no 'buzz' on the Net that might push any of the parties to investigate or to play nice together (Microsoft for Vista, Intel for the GMA945 chipset, Toshiba for their custom tablet software, Apple for QuickTime). Help, anyone?"
An appropriate title for both Vista and Quicktime!
Vista = BSOD
:)
There, fixed the title for you.
You may try with VLC media player.
Works very well with tons of formats.
Uses its own codecs.
Free and open source.
Available for Windows (and also Mac OS X and Linux).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
So the BSOD is back?
I heard there actually isn't one in Vista.
Help, anyone?
You can find a patch for this problem here.
It says "playing a .MOV file". A .mov (MooV) file is a container format for codecs. iTunes doesn't use a "QuickTime Player" it uses QuickTime.
It almost sounds like a particular driver or something is crashing when trying to do hardware acceleration of a particular codec (like H.264). The author seems like they're shooting bullets of blame in a wild and uncontrollable manner.
You've managed to misspell the name of your own laptop.
The fact that it crashed was probably Apple's "bad", but the fact that it resulted in a BSOD is obviously Vista.
Maybe this has to do with the added layer of complexity (presumably for DRM) between the kernel and video-utilizing programs... or is that just for DirectX programs?
Latewire
Why is a story about a guys computer crashing on here?
If it was a problem with a specific model, I could understand it, but it's just one guy!!!
last I knew apple hadn't updated quicktime or itunes, for Vista. So people are running into problems with a heavily drm'd OS not properly running applications that weren't designed to run on it.
should i be surprised?
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
http://www.apple.com/
I get firefox crashing hard if I view any of the mac vs pc videos on their home page.
Other quicktime movies work fine.
It might be Jobs' way of showing me how crap life is on pcs.
liqbase
You might have more luck with MPlayer than you are currently having with the proprietary player.
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html
An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
In your question you stated that the Toshiba laptop runs custom tablet software. If all other configurations of Vista, the Intel Chipset, Quicktime, and other variables work fine, you have just eliminated them as possibilities but the Tablet software. More than likely there is some call within the tablet software doing with the display that interacts when a Mov. is trying to be played locally, which causes conflict. Also, why is this Slashdot worthy?
Welcome to the Entropy Bar, may I take your order?
No, it couldn't... If you're running as an unprivileged user, the software you run shouldn't possibly be able to crash your OS.
Drivers can, and bugs in the OS can. User-run programs can only (accidentally) trigger one of those... in which case, that's a DoS exploit in the system.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
What you are seeing lies at the bullseye of the primary reason why I don't intend to ever install Vista. I don't know that the problem stems from this, but this problem has digital rights management (DRM) written all over it. Windows devices are supposed to degrade (by Microsoft specification that Toshiba has surely designed to) when they detect allegedly (by some measure) "illegal" content (e.g. content that should be DRM protected and isn't). Who knows what difficult interactions are built into the "decision" (made by the operating system and enforced in hardware) to give you a blue screen when you play your locally stored MOV files in Quicktime, but the problem is almost certainly in Vista's DRM code rather than Quicktime.
The best solution, I would guess, is to replace your Vista installation with something that isn't designed to fail. XP is a reasonable solution if you can get it. Ubuntu Linux is probably the next best option.
If you do replace Vista, be sure to go back to Toshiba and ask for a refund on the operating system.
This has been discussed on Slashdot before. It may be worthwhile to find and read older related articles.
Davis http://davis.foulger.net
>You may try with VLC media player.
>Works very well with tons of formats.
except the format in question... VLC can't play most modern quicktime movies.
The real issue here is a bad driver, which could be anyone's fault *but* quicktime's. That said, for most purposes VLC or mediaplayer classic is a better player on windows than quicktime.
I got a Toshiba Protege M400 about a mont ago. And I have had this problem consitantly. Since I watch alot of Video Podcast using iTunes. I have searched the web for solutions to tis problem and have gotten noware. Hopefully now that it made slashdot somthing will get done about it.
I installed Vista on my MacPro - in 12 minutes, i had a successfully BSOD'd Vista by playing a standard DiVX 6.0 file on Vista. (yesssss... i installed the drivers for everything)
I think (i do not know - so back off, i'm guessing) that there is some kind of problem with Vista and video... at least, i'm seeing a trend.
Considering the amount of work Microsoft put into preventing people from playing (assumedly pirated) video, I don't think its much of a strech to believe that its much harder for developers to make video playback software. I know that i read a very long article that talked about video card compliance and every 30ms being polled by the OS or some such bullshit, but i don't recall the link. But it was quite long, very extensive, and seemed to me that Vista's goal was not to provide a system which would foster video content creation - but rather, just the opposite.
its rather sad, actually. Microsoft/Adobe and MS/AVID had the makings of at least pitiful competition for Apple/Apple & Apple/Avid... (Apple/Adobe? Yeah, not so much any more after NAB). I actually LIKE competition, because it means that Apple and their developers actually have to work to make better products.
With all of the pain that's obivously involved with working HD video (which inclueds VIEWING IT) on Vista, there won't be much competition. If Vista is a shitty at video work as its looking to be, i suspect that Apple will be able to kick back on the beach with a mai-tai and not have to evern try... i mean, HD playback is 100% zero effort (assuming you aren't trying to do it on a PowerBook 520c) in Mac OS X - there's no DRM invovled whatsoever (except for BR and HDDVDs).... and the video cards Just Work(TM), and Quicktime just works, and VLC just works and DIVX just works.... etc.
sucks to have your workflow based upon a product that is EOL in 7 months (Windows XP + ___________). Personally, i don't care. I've long stopped caring about the abuse people that use Windows for video work put themselves thru... sure, Windows did some things faster back in the day, but all of that is totally gone now, isn't it?
Now, its all about the OS.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
that he blames quicktime for a BSOD...
Nothing but a bad driver, bad hardware, or a *bad kernel* can cause a BSOD (read kernel panic). It doesn't matter that other movie players don't cause it. If the driver's and kernel didn't have a bug, it would be impossible for *any* userspace application, quicktime or otherwise, to cause a kernel panic.
Quicktime isn't the greatest movie player ever... but it couldn't possibly be at the root of this problem. It is clearly simply exposing an underlying problem.
I must say that I've seen a spate of strange crashes and stuff with the last few point updates to QuickTime on both Macs and PCs. The last update solved a few of them, but in my current line of work (which is IT sysadmin for a media company with 200+ machines) QuickTime functioning properly is vital to business.
.mov files. There's a chance it could be an issue with your machine and specific encoding method that certain types of .mov files use. Thirdly, I'd try some other media files in it, like mp4 video or H.264. These can also be played back in other players and success or failure would point you in the direction of whether it's QuickTime or something deeper - such as a graphics driver - at fault.
First port of call would be QuickTime itself. As there are 'known issues' with iTunes and Vista, and we know that QuickTime and iTunes integrate pretty closely, I'd uninstall the iTunes/Quicktime install and try installing just the standalone player. There could be iTunes hooks into QuickTime that might be breaking something. It also makes sure you've got the most recent QuickTime install.
This has fixed a few of the problems I've seen over the past few months.
Secondly, I'd try a variety of different
Thirdly, I'd think back and ask yourself if you've seen any other odd graphic behaviour on your PC recently. That might indicate a driver issue. Make usre in cases like this that you're using the manufacturer approved drivers.
Fourthly, I'd look at downloading Microsoft's Application Compatibility Tools and seeing whether there's anything on your machine that doesn't run under Vista. Specifically look out for items with a graphical angle such as screen managers etc.
Do any Quicktime.mov crash every single toshiba portable?
Does running a quicktime mov in any other computer using Vista crash the system?
Does Vista crash when any Quicktime mov file is played on any other computer?
Does it happen on a specific mov file or any file?
Install Quicktime Alternative (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alt ernative.htm)
i ve.htm
Then try using media player classic to open the file. Quicktime alternative is a freeware quicktime codec, and will let you watch quicktime movies in an application of your choice. See also: http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternat
There is no need to be tied to realplayer or quicktime on windows.
Nothing from Apple yet, but you can always checkout the Axiotron ModBook... Sounds interesting.
The end of the line. Slashdot has devolved into a tech support forum.
VideoLAN works fine on Vista with just about any format I've tried, which includes older MOVs and Real videos. So does MediaPlayer Classic and the YouTube-style streaming Flash video.
This has nothing to do with "DRM", and seriously, Apple software for Windows has always sucked rocks. But I'm sure that if you're masochistic enough to use QuickTime on a PC if you get a good video driver your problems should be solved.
The instant blue screen is a vista feature to prevent watching unlicensed content on the tablet.
what exactly is the probability for all those obscure events to happen at the same time!?
i have a small home-based audio recording studio, and i'm becoming more involved in the whole computer music scene. from what i gather, quite a large number of studios have decided to switch entirely to Mac for production environments. i guess vista stepped on so many toes that a lot of shops that run XP have been migrating to Macs and plan to be exclusively apple shops, even before XP's end of life. for some reason, professionals seem to be pissed off that MS wants to control what they do with their own data.. can't imagine why.
"Luke, you've switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?"
what's really sad now is.. since the summer of code recently.. mplayer and vlc now playback wmv9 (vc1) better than wmp (on all platforms), including (in fact especially) HD.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
> from the puzzler dept.
The part that's puzzling is why we need to summon all the readers of the Slashdot front page to fix this guy's laptop.
It's a new Vista feature reminding you to switch to Windows Media Player.
...and we run Windows XP, not Vista.
:)
Any attempt to watch a Quicktime file from a local drive results in problems (usually an instant bluescreen, but sometimes general breakage -- taskbar not responding, apps not closing when ordered, menus not responding, that sort of thing).
Viewing a movie that exists elsewhere on the network is fine. Viewing a movie from the Internet still breaks things, presumably because it's still getting cached to the local drive.
They're not brand-name computers, but they were all put together by the same place, presumably with similar specs. Nobody's dug into it too deeply, we've just gotten used to moving all *.mov files to a network drive before viewing.
back in the day (circa 2002) i was working with a cruddy old machine and wanted to watch some divx on it.. but wmp kept stuttering.. so i installed quicktime and used it.. it used 20% less resources and its dependability was the first of many factors which got me to switch to mac.
that said, quicktime 7 was a major step down from 6.x because they broke the caching (making it stutter even on osX), but that has nothing to do with the platform it runs on.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Actually not since NT3, which had it's video drivers in userspace too (thus a video driver was far less likely to crash the system)... NT4 moved them to kernel space, and was far more crash prone.
Vista was also supposed to move the video drivers back to userspace for stability reasons, are you saying this was yet another feature that got canned from the final release?
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
I thought the whole fact that you run as non-root under vista made this impossible? User applications should never crash the whole OS should they? o.O I don't think I could do this in ubuntu if I tried. Please, correct me if I'm wrong...
Windows devices are supposed to degrade (by Microsoft specification that Toshiba has surely designed to) when they detect allegedly (by some measure) "illegal" content (e.g. content that should be DRM protected and isn't)
False. Your post is FUD. Vista doesn't do shit to anything without DRM. It doesn't add DRM, "detect" that something should have DRM, or anything of that sort. If a file already has DRM attached, it supports certain measures demanded by the content owners. That's it. This whole "Vista DRM infests my non-DRM'd files!" BS has gotten old by now. Let it go.
this problem has digital rights management (DRM) written all over it
Do you know anything about systems? Nothing here sounds like DRM, it sounds like a shitty driver for this Toshiba model being hounded by QuickTime in a specific way. It very well could be an Apple hack to get their stuff working (they don't always make the cleanest Windows code, you know).
So my wireless USB dongle stopped working when I upgraded to Ubuntu 7.04. It seems Network Manager doesn't like the rt73usb driver, or just about any RALink driver judging by the Ubuntu Forums. Help, anyone?
/. isn't the place to post bug reports? Could've fooled me...
What, you mean
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Someone post the source code to the OS, drivers, and player and we'll have a look.
Oh, wait ...
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Don't guess.... this isn't hard to figure out. Hook up the kernel debugger and find the faulting component. If you don't do that you are just guessing. This is what any decent developer would do.
Jibe!
Ok,
So why haven't you a) called Toshiba, b) called Microsoft? When did slashdot become "I can't figure out the problem, i've searched all the forums and I'm completely out of ideas of who to turn to, so what shall I do? I know I'll call a linux/unix news website"?
I'm no Vista expert (obviously) but I find it odd that applications can apparently can easily cause a BSOD on Vista. I mean you would think that nothing short of a crash of the core OS would cause a BSOD.
..Vista if you attempt to open the popup menu using right click when the video is embedded into Firefox (at least on the machines I've worked on). All have Nvidia based video cards, not sure if its related or not. It completely locks the system. Very very annoying.
Vista ain't done, till QuickTime won't run.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
The link you gave is to the Real Alternative, (which is great, btw, but not exactly useful in this situation). There are two versions of the Quicktime Alternative software, linked to here. Version 1.52 is for Quicktime 6, and supports older Microsoft OS's, the other is 1.63 which is based on Quicktime 7, but only works on NT5+ kernels (W2k, XP, Vista).
I have Vista and QuickTime on a Toshiba M400 and have not had a BSOD from trying to play a .mov file. Check for updates? Try with laptop in tablet mode? Make sure you have all your drivers? Check the error numbers and trace where the BSOD is actually coming from.
Sorry, I missed the Quicktime Alternative link in your original thread (wasn't link-ified).
The article you probably mean is Peter Gutmann's A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection, which memorably coined the phrase,
At least, we can hope.
you had me at #!
All Apple softwares for windows are effectively viruses. This has been the case for many years now, it has nothing to do with Vista and everything to do with Apple's long time policy of guerrilla marketing. I refuse all apple formats on principle when using a windows installation.
And before you start freaking on me, QNX and FreeBSD are my favorite operating systems. Yes, Windows sucks, but MacOS sucks harder. Microsoft does not actively sabotage MacOS installations, Apple however has been sabotaging windows installations around the world for many years now. (Not as badly as Norton, but still pretty crippling.)
The bit at the bottom that says:
Blaming Apple
I'd say both, but I place the blame more on Apple, the author of the offending application.
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Get a Mac, there all problems solved.
This is not exactly the most popular combination of tools here. No one is using Vista except the poor bums forced to by insane employers and those unfortunate enough to have gotten it with a new system. Next, Toshiba might sell in some circles but they aren't exactly the cream of the crop of laptops these days. I haven't seen a toshiba laptop in 10 years at least. Not to say that no one uses them but there was a day that everyone used them; not any more. And last, if you're watching movies on your windows computer, then you're probably using some Microsoft tool.
My pity on the folks that fit into this category. My advice: see if the computer is still within the return period and either send it back and try another vendor, or DEMAND WINDOWS XP for your windows platform. Vista doesn't run anything.
It's funny because I'm using Windows Vista and Apple Quicktime and I'm not having any problems, yet everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that the only other possible culprits are Toshiba or Intel and you're all jumping down MS/Apple's throats anyway.
Congratulations on ignoring the root of the problem to further your biased hatred of major corporations.
I think this is an excellent time for Linux to come in into the audio production market ( maybe also video production though I don't know anything about video production ).
Windows XP is a pain but a bearable pain to get the studio running around it. Vista probably will be impossible and a bad idea with all the DRM code lurking inside it. I don't want to go to a Mac environment together ( coz everything surrounding Mac is more expensinve, from the little accessories to the major controllers and such )
A nice open-source and very good audio layer for Linux ( for recording and monitoring etc ) will be a huge boon. An open source DAW system and a small blend of open source effects and synth plugins would be a boon. Then, a mixed cocktail of open source and commercial software would really make the Linux based studio wonderful.
This isn't news. Quicktime is a horrible piece of software. I have personaly tested about 50 machines with various SCSI controllers in Windows XP and 2003 which either BSOD in Quicktime, or get horrible audio/video syncing problems.
The only commonality was they all used LSI or Adaptec SCSI controllers. Playing off an IDE drive or SATA drive worked fine.
We sent bug reports to Apple and Microsoft, ran traces on the programs, and it always came down to Quicktime.
Microsoft made a hotfix available that was a workaround, something to do with caching the data to page first, then sending it to quicktime, but it was a slow and dirty hack.
Apple said it was the SCSI controllers sending corrupt data, which was rediculous, every single other application, media, worked perfect.
Quicktime shittyness is HARDLY anything new at all.
Brent Jones
Running PcAnywhere on your XP laptop that happens to be a Toshiba, and apparently in combination with a Symantec AV product (NAV IIRC) would result in a guranteed blue screen on every shutdown.
s ervice1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/pca.nsf/1ab3f998698d6 46f88256f48005b9e71/b998f8fb40c5dc3988256dea000204 6d%3FOpenDocument+site:symantec.com+toshiba+shutdo wn+pcanywhere&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au&client=fire fox-a
Had never seen that before with this software combination on any laptop except some Toshibas at work back in the day.
Nearest KB article I could find on Symantec was 2003112516321112, but it's only available via Google cache at http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:FBy7QXRHzIIJ:
The networkmanager applet won't like ANY RaLink chipset/drivers at the moment because networkmanager relies on the driver
;)
1) adhering to the linux wireless toolset (iwconfig...).
The RaLink drivers don't and tend to work via a DAT file. The rt2x00 beta driver fix this
2) Do not work with wpa_supplicant, something that networkmanager also relies on. WEP/WPA/WPA2 is delt with via that same DAT file
Again the rt2x00 beta drivers fix this
there you go
Perhaps Microsoft will be in a little bit more of a hurry when the hackers figure out what is causing the BSOD from Vista and work it into the next custom malware?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you get a complete system crash from something like this, it is always the operating system's fault. You can shout and whinge about kernel mode drivers and catching access violations and real time this, that or the other. However, the bottom line is that the kernel is the heart of any operating system. Its only purpose is to construct a framework within which other software can run, which provides some basic guarantees about performance, resource management, security, etc. There is little, if any, reason to compromise the integrity of the kernel and allow any other code to run at that privilege level in a desktop OS like Vista. It certainly isn't necessary to play back some video file in a user application.
Since the only excuse for breaking backward compatibility with just about the whole universe, which on reports to date pretty much sounds like what Vista is doing, is because they're putting a serious security model in place, this sort of thing simply shouldn't be possible. If it is, then by definition their new, serious security model is fundamentally broken.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
All those years of development and a user app still can crash the whole system? Or do they really run video player codecs at kernel level?
Amazing! Looks like they didn't learn anything after NT 3.51.
If the IT world was managed by competent people instead of clueless businessmen, people would be fired for choosing a Microsoft product for anything serious.
I'm not trying to appear to be an Apple fanboy but any OS that allows an app to cause a BSOD (or freeze or whatever) should be considered the culprit, shouldn't it?
Sure, you can write a bad app, one that crashes or doesn't get along with other apps but shouldn't a modern OS prevent any app from being able to take the whole system down?
Maybe Apple needs to work on QT for Vista but MS really needs to take ownership of the problem at this level IMHO.
A quick google seems to confirm there's a ton of .mov -> other format converters out there...
I know, I know, the easy workaround...
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
You know that there has been a few update since version 0.01, don't you ?
Seriously, almost any modern MOV file either uses standard MPEG 4 (MPEG-4 SP/H263 and AVC/H264) or some variation of (Sorenson is a derivative of H264). The former is a standard, the later was successfully reverse-engineered and implemented in FFmpeg a couple of years ago.
Even the latest WMV compression formats are currently being implemented into FFmpeg and thus available to VLC.
RealVideo is pretty much everything that is still in use today and not supported by VLC. Specially since the advent of video Podcasts, PSP and cameraphones, there's a strong nove toward standardizing on non proprietary codecs like the various MPEG4.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Who would want to use Microsoft Vista anymore anyway? Linux is so much better in any respect.
well, linux uses the JACK toolkit (http://jackaudio.org/), which is also available for macs, and its really awesome.. it's a bit tough to really learn how to be a JACK guru, but qtjack provides a good gui based frontend to get you going. As far as DAW's go, linux is really missing out.. it's a shame too, because you could custom-roll a linux kernel to be a real-time powerhouse, and i've managed to accomplish latencies as low as 3-5ms. The list of DAWs for linux is pretty small, but Ardour (http://ardour.org/) is pretty good, as is Rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/). Neither of those DAWs really come close to the standards, like Cubase, DP, Sonar, etc. but for the weekend warrior, they are more then enough. the only thing they really lack are good quality sample packs, but that's part of the price with major windows-based DAWs. If you really want to toy around, i suggest Ubuntu Studio (http://ubuntustudio.org/). the .iso's aren't available yet, but on the wiki they give a link to a quick noobie guide to installing the necessary apps, configuring them, and even setting up a real-time kernel. IMHO, a mac running Logic is about the best setup you could possibly get for audio. with DAWs and VST's becoming more and more mature, you can trade racks and racks of expensive purpose-built gear for a single macbook pro, Logic, a firewire interface, and some software instruments (logic comes with quite a few high-calibre ones).
"Luke, you've switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?"
Itunes and QT are causing BSOD on any and all Vista machines...... trust me I have been plagued by it.
This issue is so ridiculous it's rediculous all over again!
I'm not at a PC right now, but I seem to remember that QuickTime installs an icon in Control Panels. One of the options in the QuickTime control panel is a toggle for DirectX accelerated drawing vs. GDI drawing. Try turning that off.
I'm guessing that there's something screwy going on with the DirectX drivers for the video cards in question.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
Summary: somebody wrote a buggy video driver for Vista.
Big whoop.
If Toshiba shipped this driver, it's their issue -- although the driver is probably written by Intel.
OK, it so happens that QT is good at triggering this bug. Maybe it uses an obscure but valid API call. But that doesn't make it Apple's business, and it sure isn't Microsoft's either. An application alone will not BSOD a NT system, and QT blatently works on Vista in thousands of other configurations.
Blue screens create a dump file. Microsoft's debugging tools are free. Analyze the dump file to determine the exact cause of the blue screen. If the results are interesting, then post them here. This post is trolling. You could have at least included the error code.
Quicktime has always caused me problems with any version of Windows at home. I have perfectly stable systems Windows systems (I know, it's weird) until I install Quicktime and then it's only a matter of time.
I've never understood the reason why Quicktime needs to be installed in the system tray anyway. I play movies with it from time to time, I don't use it otherwise, and I doubt many do.
HOLY CRAP
/., I almost went OUTSIDE before I heard of this.
I'm glad I checked
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Bart: "Don't be a sap, Dad. These are just crappy knockoffs."
Homer: "Pfft. I know a genuine Protege M400 when I see it. And look, there's Magnetbox and Sorny."
Recent versions of VLC can indeed play pretty much every Quicktime .mov there is.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
Looks like they didn't learn anything after NT 3.51.
Regressed, mate. NT 3.51 had the graphics drivers in user space. NT 4.0 moved them into kernel space.
Not that this is unusual, but it *did* serve as an advantage that NT used to have back in the day.
Yes, but if you were having problems with a GPS you bought and had installed from Radioshack Ford would tell you to take it back to Radioshack - and rightly so. Likewise, Quicktime and iTunes are things you installed, not Microsoft nor Toshiba. Why should they have to support it?
I'd try something like VLC or QuickTime Alternative to see if you can play .mov files. If it works, you have a solution (QuickTime is broken). If it doesn't work, then you've isolated QuickTime and can work on a sound/video problem.
PS: Why the hell is this on Slashdot?
Video DRM has been my main complaint with Vista as well. For example, I can no longer watch 24 online due to incompatibilities with Fox's Video on Demand software.
I've actually found Vista to be quite stable (zero crashes or BSODs since installation about a month ago) and I haven't run into other major compatibility problems, but this specific case is worrying to me - what kind of DRM system is Vista using that would lock out streaming video that is allowed to run on XP?
So one more example of why it's not OK to accept any "guilty until proven innocent" approach that treats like a criminal. This is true even if you "have nothing to hide."
Considering the huge mess that NVidia is having with getting decent video drivers out the door for Vista, I'd say there is in fact quite a bit of evidence for such a statement. This is what happens when you ship an OS 6 months or more early because you have contractual obligations to get it out to corporate customers before the end of the year, rather than actually waiting for it to be done.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
I can't believe this made /. front page either. It's BASIC computer troubleshooting.
-If Quicktime had serious BSOD problems with Vista, we'd have heard about it -- nevermind it's almost impossible for it to cause a BSOD (if not just because not running in kernel mode)
-Similarly, if Vista had serious problems with Quicktime video, we'd find lots of similar evidence...
Which leaves the usual 2 problems:
-a BSOD due to shitty drivers -- most drivers for Vista being shitty right now, so no surprise at all
-or bad/faulty hardware (less likely, but still possible)
As soon as something BSODs, any competent admin would set the box to do a memory dump and analyze it (using basic simple commands) in windbg (it's a lot easier than it sounds). You should be able to find what caused the BSOD real quick in most cases (in this case I'd bet it would be some DLL for his video card's driver). Even most consumers should be able to setup and use error reporting, which does usually give you a half-decent "most probable cause" (it would likely blame his video drivers).
He hasn't done any of this, nor tried updating drivers, or playing using other software (like VLC or MPC).
The blame is on whoever made shitty drivers (or whatever the memory dump points to).
This is a total non-story. It must have made the front page just because there's some MS-bashing potential.
Just as with your hardware/software vendors, users here need to know exactly what you are dealing with to be able to help you effectively. We should be given a link to download a sample file, information on the codecs/software and settings used to create it, and details of all testing done. .mov is a container format that supports many different codecs. Does it play using the same (unspecified) version of QuickTime on XP or OS X? Did you bother to try? .mp3 that someone renamed to .mov so they could see the picture...
Other than agreeing that your system handles the error poorly, we can only speculate on what's wrong. We have no way to tell if you have file corruption, some kind of DRM hell, a flavor of h.264 that QuickTime doesn't like, or an
Absent essential troubleshooting details, the suggestion to try VLC or another player that has its own codec support is probably more likely to help you than anything else. You might also consider using ffmpeg or other software to transcode the file. Keep an eye out for updates to your application, driver and OS software. Test your RAM.
Here is an example of an idiot trying to look smart. Have you bothered to have someone look at the memory dump? What was the stop code? Did you check the event logs?
The fact is, it could be ANY of the three things mentioned or NONE of them. It could be an anti virus filter driver. It could be a memory access violation in Kernel Mode memory. It could have absolutely nothing to do with Vista or QT or even the Toshiba's drivers. It could be that the author is just stupid.
I'm leaning in the direction that this author is simply ignorant but since he felt he should write an article and place blame with minimal evidence to support his claim, he falls solidly in the stupid category.
The only fact that the author has presented is that he had a BSOD when using QT on Vista on Toshiba hardware when playing a local file. That only gives you suspects. A lawyer should know better. I've had occasions where customers swore up and down that one product was causing a BSOD and the memory dump pointed squarely at another product. Rarely (on XP) did I ever see a memory dump that actually pointed the finger at Windows. More often than not, I've seen memory dumps caused by filter drivers used by anti virus.
Perhaps Mr Fishkin should write more about being a lawyer because he damn well doesn't know much about computers.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
Considering the DRM is supposed to work even if it has been mostly cracked (via watermarks and such) it is entirely possible that Vista thinks that the local .mov file is pirated content that has had the DRM stripped.
FTA
Who is obligated to make iTunes work on my Tablet PC?
You are.
Since Vista's release in fact. I have tried it with both onboard sound and Audigy 2 ZS
Symptoms:
Quicktime will not play local files with 5.1 sound. Causes BSOD or slowdown and no sound emitting from Movie file.
When Vista was first released Quicktime would not work at all unless you have Quicktime Alternative on. It even destroyed RAID arrays. Apple quickly released the 7.5 version that fixed that. However 5.1 sound still does not work even with AC97 Audio, which quite frankly is crap especailly 3 months down the line. All other media players work fine (Cyberlink PowerDVD, Media PLayer 11, Winamp, etc) all with Multi-speaker setup.
As such Quicktime is not even installed until they (Apple) sort this crap out, which will porbably be months away yet. The 5.1 sound was woefully broken in XP with Audigy for months before they fixed it whean Quicktime 7.x was first released with that feature, and I dont see it being any different here. Anyone saying its the OS's faul are just the usual bunch who want to diss on Vista without actually TRYING it for any length of time. Vitsa for me works fine, except the few "minor" apps like Quicktime, and until the venders sort out thier prodcuts it isnt going to change.
Quicktime also does not work if you have ReadyBoost enabled with a USB key.
in control panel there is a quicktime player config tool. at advanced in play mode select GDI mode, not direct x
have a hunch, quicktime and DX10 are not friendly yet
same for other codec based on DirectX rendering engine, try to use something newer...
and again, get some DX10 compatible hardware
ps. can you please link bsod image somewhere ?
Thank you for the wonderful information. I will certainly look into it.
I have been planning to put up an experimental Linux control center in my studio along with the Windows XP one.
Also been planning to put together a few synth and audio effects plugins together - since there are a lot of wonderful open-source high-quality research level libraries out there and would really love to experiment around with them.
I'm sort of envisoning a programming language style expression of music instead of the flashy GUIs that is in Windows and Macs. That is going to be part of my summer project :) The computer aspects will be little scripts and maybe some quick GUI like TCL gui for live performance.
I recently sold all my digital gear but kept all my analog stuff - Oberheim Matrix 1000 and Alesis Andromeda and all my analog effects pedals and guitar tube amps. Digital stuff stuff doesn't cut it when playing high volumes live or just jamming. I don't know why. Works great for a studio and recording though but not fully by itself.
Why do people insist on jumping to vista when we all know how flaky any microsoft product is until SP-1 at least. And then cry about "this hardware doesn't work and that BSOD's". If you really want Quicktime to work stick with XP.
Space must have collapsed into its self due to too much terrible design being in the same place at the same time. A Toshiba laptop + Quicktime for Windows + Microsoft Vista?! This guy is lucky to be alive.
Speaking as someone who works with Macs all day long and has had to troubleshoot problems like this many many times, the person who wrote this article seems like a bit of a fool to me. The kind of person that has just enough knowledge to be dangerous (to himself). This reminds me of those situations like when your Dad (thinks) he knows about computers, and in fact my Senior Citizen detector was going off on every line he wrote.
The stupid thing is that he blames Apple in the end but at the same time seems to narrow the issue down to a driver problem with his tablet PC. That's just bad thinking all around. The art of troubleshooting is in the elimination of possibilities. If it works everywhere but on his tablet PC the problem is definitely in his tablet PC, which he even mentions in the article yet simultaneously doesn't know where the problem is? WTF?
He also links to an entire *other* article he has written about driver support that indicates he knows very little about what to do on the Mac when the hardware is not instantly recognised or indeed, much of anything about drivers. The problem he relates in *that* article is about getting a brand new "high end" HP printer and it's driver to work with his old G4.
When this computer was manufactured, it would have shipped with OS 9.0, then he would have upgraded it to OS-X, then 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 etc. Then he goes out and buys a bleeding edge HP printer and is stymied when it doesn't "just work"??? He also has to go through extensive tech support to find out that the thing probably would work with an older driver, but it would have a reduced feature set. Hello? Hasn't he heard of the "Generic PostScript driver"??? This is the solution for all old hardware and if he had the experience he claimed, he would probably know that.
As others have pointed out, Quicktime uses standard calls and standard protocols, it's an *.mp4 file for cripes sake. The problem here is more likely with some proprietary screen-re-drawing code in the tablet PC.
This guy is that very dangerous combination of a "dabbler," but with a world-wide audience.
Screw loose between chair and keyboard.
Quicktime isn't vista ready, so any surprise that it doesn't work? Yeah, go ahead and complain to someone... no one cares until Apple says QT is ready for vista.
Not ready doesn't mean it won't work, because you say you got it running before applying patches. It just means Apple won't support it, probably because of issues very much like the one you describe.
BSOD (isn't that supposed to be red SOD?) is clearly a sign that something is wrong in the OS, it's just MS doesn't care until it can be shown to be hackable. MS has been quoted that BSOD means the OS shut down to prevent accidental or intentional damage. I would try to find the cause before the bad guys do, but I'm not a 500 billion dollar company, so I can't help you here.
Here's a thought: Reinstall fresh, then apply one patch at a time, and test QT. If it works, groovy. If not, you have your culprit, go complain to them. Unless it's apple, because vista is not QT capable officially. Or unless it's Microsoft, because QT is a third-party application. Oh yeah, and Toshiba doesn't give a shit either, just to round it all out.
Your point makes me think of an interesting side effect of overprotection: video screenshots. For various reasons, I've needed to get screenshots of files playing in Windows Media over the years ... and print screen doesn't work. It's frustrating, having to do research online to grab a program to get a still capture of the image I can see right there in front of me.
... it worked! Apple doesn't hate me for trying to promote some video content (Hot Fuzz trailer, getting screenshot for my website) playing in Quicktime! Thanks!
Naturally, when I recently tried to grab a screenshot of a movie playing in Quicktime, I braced for the worst, expecting to be forced to buy the Pro version or some such. But just as I began my research for a little program to do the job, I gave the old "print screen" button a try and
Its interesting. The post that I am replying to was, when it was posted, the first to comment on DRM as a possible problem. It was carefully written based on a read of the problem posted and some backchecking into old articles on Vista security and DRM. It immediately picked up enough "interesting" points to give it a +5, and still has at least five such votes, but it has subsequently picked up three "redundant" identifiers (even though it was the first post to lay this out) and, it would appear, four "troll" designations. The net is that it now ranks "0".
What possible justification is there for putting a "troll" designation on a post that gives a grounded analysis of the problem? What possible justification is there for putting a "redundant" modifier on the first post that lays out the logic?
If I was paranoid, I'd say that MicroSoft has targeted the message to make it "go away". That shouldn't be possible, of course.
Davis http://davis.foulger.net
I have had the same problem with quicktime (any .mov file, but the worst are the drm'ed music videos from itunes--yes, yes, they are all available via video.google, but the quality is usually poor for what I want to find).
I D=133&threadID=238516&messageID=2446043
The issue is repeatedly noted in the Apple forums on quicktime/itunes but nothing seems to have been done. A slightly more helpful forum discussion is found at http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6035_102-0.html?forum
The solutions provided typically fall into 1) Don't use Vista (which for those us of who have apparently lost our minds and gone for it is worthless) 2) Don't use quicktime (again, worthless for those of us with ipods) 3) Use Quicktime alternative (the first somewhat helpful entry, but unfortunately doesn't work for my computer and a host of others) 4) Use a newer version of Itunes (see entry 3) 5) Use an external hard drive (haven't tried this yet, but it seems to be getting really good results--this seems to be tied to the SCSI driver issue, and the hard drive on my laptop falls in this category) 6) Wait several months for a solution (not too helpful, but hopefully will provide a long term solution that allows me to travel without an external hard drive).
Don't confuse video drivers (which always is in kernel space) with the GUI code.
This is how we've dealt with a number of QuickTime vs. Windows issues in the past: QuickTime control panel>Video Settings, uncheck as many acceleration options as necessary to stop the crashing.
Untried on Vista, but a trick I always keep handy.
Happy Free (as in speech) Editting!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinelerra
Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
I believe the DRM support required all of that to be in kernel space.
i agree that analog gear is a necessary part of the equation for live shows. i make it a point to hang onto almost anything with a tube power section. i don't really play live much, and when i jam, it's usually in my little studio, but i often play guitar through an old fender blues deluxe tube amp. it's one of the original versions that had inconsistencies in the hand-wiring that produces a wonderful colored tone reminiscent of chicago style blues. for recording i almost exclusively use my line6 guitar and bass amps. the amp/cab modeling is super good, and the direct outs are pristinely clear. anyway, im getting real off-topic.. your vision of command line tracking is nice and geekly romantic, however in reality, linux DAWs are pretty much exactly how you would think--powerful, but with a learning curve, and a not-so-gorgeous GUI. sad but true. the good news is that all your favorite VSTs should work with no issues. as far as i can tell, the interest in linux-based DAWs and other audio production tools has been rising pretty steadily for many months.. with any luck ubuntu studio will be popular enough that people will be interested and motivated enough to code some really killer linux audio apps.
"Luke, you've switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?"
Aloha everyone,
:)
:) Of course, that in part was the point, right?
I'm out here and thanks in part to Slashdot, my M400 tablet is playing quicktime movies like a champ now
The rant below aside, I DO very much appreciate the community thought that went into this, the response was great and that seems to have gotten the attention of Toshiba, which has issued a new RAID driver.
So, for whatever reason I still don't understand, Quicktime was accessing hard drives , those controlled by the SATA RAID controller in the laptop AND the ones hooked up by USB (external drives)in such a different way that the computer BSOD'ed every time.
I don't pretend to understand it fully, I just knew from the start that it was some fundamental level of tinkering I couldn't do on my own.
A hearty thanks to everyone who offered advice, called me or the author an idiot, or delved deeper into information that couldn't have been contained in the paltry few sentances I wrote for the story submission. hehe. I went out to lunch to buy some RAM, and there were 200 posts, so I'm sorry I wasn't more involved in giving MORE information. I know that everyone needed it, but I missed the window on timing, I think... who knew it would get accepted and start up such a fire-storm of responses?
It reminds me of that maxim "Whe you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
Submit a vexing problem to Slashdot, give just enough information for people to identify it and hope and pray that someone smart, informed, kind slashdotter would know the answer when all the google queries in the world, tech support hours wasted and dead end hunches didn't get me anywhere.
Hooray for everyone!
This isn't a problem with Toshiba. My custom built machine at work does this as well. I custom built the machine some time ago just for Vista (of course then Vista was delayed and delayed). Its as follows: AMD x2 3800+, 2GB kingston memory, Nvidia 7600gs, nforce 4 motherboard (430 I believe). The machine was completely stable on XP. Ever since installing vista there is one thing that will blue screen it nearly every time - watching .mov files in iTunes. Opening actual .mov files outside of iTunes doesn't always bluescreen it but the videos play like a powerpoint show. I've installed every nvidia video driver out there, even the latest beta drivers.
Of course, the other way to bluescreen my system is to install nvidia drivers. So perhaps its nvidia and not apple?
In any case, Vista has been a terrible experience, and seeing as I'm in charge of the IT department at my company we have canceled our plans to upgrade anytime soon. Perhaps after sp1. We rely heavily on MS applications as we consult for other companies that use MS apps so going to Linux or Mac is not an option. But we'll stay with XP for as long as possible. In fact, as an admin I've loved XP. The improvement from 95 to 98 to 2000 and then XP and the improvement from NT 4 to Server 2000 & 2003 had really gotten my hopes up that Microsoft would deliver on Vista.
Unfortunately, they FUBAR'ed it.
um let me run this scenario by you. you're finishing up your long 226 legal brief in Microsoft word. you go to click file save, but the directory you are saving to has 400 files. windows does some internal file processing and starts eating up the final 10k of available physical memory. swapping begins to occur until your sound card that was playing your favorite midi throws an error because windows did not feed data in time. the sound card drive freaks out, and returns a failure to the midi app. the midi app, not prepared for this, starts an infinite loop eating all of your available memory. eventually you overflow the stack and your windowing system is hosed.
you shake the mouse and click repeatedly hoping to unfreeze the computer. you hit control alt delete, nothing happens. you reset the computer silently hoping word's autosave worked for once.
now, my question to you.. is the above story what you are implying is happening here? (answer this question honestly before you continue)
because that is what happened back in Windows 3.1. Since the creation of modern operating systems, we have learned to take advantage of advanced hardware and separate each application into its own memory space (see: Intro to Operating Systems at your local community college). Thus, a single application should NOT take down your entire system. If an application is causing a BSOD and there is no funky kernel-mode hardware access going on.. the fault is on the hardware or OS (to include drivers as well). Period.
If you wish to debate this, remember that I may have just found a way to compromise your system.
Heh, you know I wasn't actually expecting a sensible response. Just wanted to make a point. Thanks anyway though.
I'd kinda figured that I wasn't gonna get the two to work together. It just sucks that Ubuntu has shipped in a configuration in which the drivers for a pretty large amount of wireless devices won't work. If it was some random peripheral maybe it could be forgiven but when the problem will break potentially a user's only means to a solution that's pretty damn bad. It's things like this which could ultimately hurt the market for consumer Linux more than leaving it in obscurity for a few more years until it's totally ready. A shame because overall Linux -Ubuntu in particular- is really starting to get close to a place where it could take on Windows in certain areas of the consumer desktop market.
And now I really am offtopic.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
* = (Mutually Assured Destruction!)
A site cowboyneal will like http://www.freewebs.com/atpa/
Vista breaks most video-related functionality.
try playing a dvd on tv-out with vista. unless your television supports hdcp over dvi/hdmi you're stuck like chuck.
key functionality is to be able to play dvds on your hdtv over component cables the way my nvidia card was designed.
toshiba has nothing to do with the problem other than not being hdcp compliant.
They're using their grammar skills there.
At the Vista/Office release conference we were assured without a doubt that in Windows Vista there is no more BSOD!!!! (They have changed the color to GREEN!!)
Have you tried actually reading and investigating the STOP code at the top of the BSOD message?
This should point you towards the cause of the problem.
I always turn off auto-restart when an error occurs on windows machines, so that I can fully note the cause of any BSODs
Also I agree with others who have commented here, why is this on slashdot. It belongs on a help forum
Paul Gogarty
Aloha everyone,
,thanks in part to Slashdot, my M400 tablet is playing quicktime movies like a champ now :)
:) Of course, that in part was the point, right?
I'm out here in Hawaii and
The rant below aside, I DO very much appreciate the community thought that went into this, the response was great and that seems to have gotten the attention of Toshiba, which has issued a new RAID driver.
So, for whatever reason I still don't understand, Quicktime was accessing hard drives , those controlled by the SATA RAID controller in the laptop AND the ones hooked up by USB (external drives)in such a different way that the computer BSOD'ed every time.
I don't pretend to understand it fully, I just knew from the start that it was some fundamental level of tinkering I couldn't do on my own.
A hearty thanks to everyone who offered advice, called me or the author an idiot, or delved deeper (too deep) into information that couldn't have been contained in the paltry few sentances I wrote for the story submission. hehe. I went out to lunch to buy some RAM, and then there were 200 posts, so I'm sorry I wasn't more involved in giving MORE information. I know that everyone needed it, but I missed the window on timing, I think... who knew it would get accepted and start up such a fire-storm of responses?
It reminds me of that maxim "Whe you assume, you make an ass out of u and me."
Submit a vexing problem to Slashdot, give just enough information for people to identify it and hope and pray that someone smart, informed, kind slashdotter would know the answer when all the google queries in the world, tech support hours wasted and dead end hunches didn't get me anywhere.
Hooray for everyone!
QuickTime could be doing something bad like consuming and not releasing inordinate amounts of graphics resources. Not that I'm going to bother benchmarking it. Look at the way the app looks and behaves - the devs obviously have no clue how to develop for Windows.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense under the circumstances. If Quicktime is at fault, why is the problem only happening on this one particular hardware/software configuration? If it's that seriously flawed, it ought to be causing BSODs everywhere -- and that's setting aside the debate of whether it's indicative of a serious flaw in an OS's security model when a userland app can cause a kernel panic or its equivalent.
It sounds like the problem is in the custom Toshiba drivers for the hardware embedded in the tablet PC. That would make sense: they're working at a low-enough level so that a problem there would bluescreen the system, and since the drivers are specific to the Tablet PC, it explains why this issue hasn't been more widely reported.
An easy test, if the user hasn't already done it, would be to hose the system, reinstall Vista from a regular Install CD (not the OEM disc which may have drivers already slipstreamed in), and try the problem scenario again. Then install the drivers and see what changes.
So seriously -- take a step back from your apparent hatred for Quicktime and try to look at the situation; you're just trying too hard to pin this one on Apple, and it doesn't seem like the facts are in your favor.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I cna't remember details, but I thought the VIsta driver models had been altered to segregate drivers from the system more exactly so that bad drivers could not affect system stability?
Or, was that put all upon the Vista certification testing process to only certify solid drivers...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"I actually LIKE competition, because it means that Apple and their developers actually have to work to make better products."
that's certainly the last course apple (or any other software company) will take to deal with competition. the usual method envolves lawyers and lots of suing, cease and desist etc.
An application shouldn't consume excessive resources.
If an application attempts to consume excessive resources, the OS should not allow that. Appropriate responses might include failing to provide the resource, or terminating the application. A BSOD terminates everything--plainly not the correct response.
Now, considering the .MOV+Toshiba+Vista situation... something in kernel space is plainly wrong. It might be MS code or Toshiba code. We don't know. Something in application space might be wrong too; but it makes sense to fix bugs in code that runs in the kernel first. Then, if the application "hangs" or triggers a more manageable exception (The little popup window that doesn't crash the whole OS, whatever they call that on Vista) then we know that the application had problems too. If that doesn't happen, then the application was innocent all along.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I remember having similar problems with QuickTime before with my old graphics card: Tseng Labs ET6000.
When starting a QuickTime movie with the 16bit version in Windows 3.11/95/98 it would completely BSOD, no matter how many different versions of QuickTime 16bit and Tsenglabs drivers I tried.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup.
Still, a user space app should never be able to produce a BSOD, even if it is pushing the limits. It's the OSes job to keep apps from going haywire, no matter what. They use that stuff in medical devices, airplanes and space travel, forget? It's like Windows should never execute (!) a mail attachment only according to the MIME type without looking at the file itself: The single largest problem with trojans and worms. A design error is a design error.
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
What release of Quicktime? What drivers for your SCSI devices? Where's the detail? You even mention a "fix" from Microsoft but don't bother to give a knowledge base reference or link. I call bullshit on you.
Like the OP (troll), you never say if use any of the Quicktime software features to test?
Quicktime lets you turn off DirectX drawing. It provides check boxes for a Safe mode (GDI only), DirectDraw acceleration (incl. secondary monitors), Direct3D video acceleration. Did you tick the boxes in your Quicktime movie to "Preload this track" for both the audio & video tracks? Did that solve your "SCSI" problem or the sync problem?
I have the exact same problem on my computer running Vista; but it is not a tablet PC, it is a custom built computer in a Shuttle ST20G5 (I believe that is the correct model).
I ran windbg on the dump file - and the output I get points to something called ntkrpamp.exe - which to me sounds like a part of Windows itself.
The full WinDbg analysis is bellow (with some blank lines removed):
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50)
Invalid system memory was referenced. This cannot be protected by try-except,
it must be protected by a Probe. Typically the address is just plain bad or it is pointing at freed memory.
Arguments:
Arg1: c36024bb, memory referenced.
Arg2: 00000001, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation.
Arg3: 81ce752b, If non-zero, the instruction address which referenced the bad memory address.
Arg4: 00000002, (reserved)
Debugging Details:
------------------
Could not read faulting driver name
WRITE_ADDRESS: GetPointerFromAddress: unable to read from 81d315ac
Unable to read MiSystemVaType memory at 81d11780
c36024bb
FAULTING_IP:
nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+520
81ce752b 894804 mov dword ptr [eax+4],ecx
MM_INTERNAL_CODE: 2
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_RC
BUGCHECK_STR: 0x50
PROCESS_NAME: lsass.exe
CURRENT_IRQL: 0
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 81df5d82 to 81ce752b
STACK_TEXT:
9732dbe0 81df5d82 00000001 00000384 e56b6f54 nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+0x520
9732dc08 81df57a6 84e9b480 00000000 0000035c nt!ObpAllocateObject+0xd3
9732dc38 81e3fb7c 00000000 84136938 9732dcb4 nt!ObCreateObject+0x135
9732dc80 81e41089 81c8a901 9732dcb4 81c8a901 nt!SepDuplicateToken+0xe8
9732dd30 81e40f43 fffffffe 0000000a 00000000 nt!NtOpenThreadTokenEx+0x136
9732dd4c 81c8c96a fffffffe 0000000a 00000001 nt!NtOpenThreadToken+0x18
9732dd4c 77910f34 fffffffe 0000000a 00000001 nt!KiFastCallEntry+0x12a
WARNING: Frame IP not in any known module. Following frames may be wrong.
00def1a4 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x77910f34
STACK_COMMAND: kb
FOLLOWUP_IP:
nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+520
81ce752b 894804 mov dword ptr [eax+4],ecx
SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0
SYMBOL_NAME: nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+520
FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
MODULE_NAME: nt
IMAGE_NAME: ntkrpamp.exe
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4549ae00
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0x50_W_nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+520
BUCKET_ID: 0x50_W_nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+520
A lot of owners of core duo laptops with x1400 or any other 1000 series ATI Radeon graphics cards has similar problems... except here its windows mediaplayer causing the problem.
Open up a webpage with an embedded wmv in internet explorer (yes, I usually use firefox, but rarely need to see something using IE) and half the time I get a BSOD claiming my RAM is faulty... funny how it only happens when using windows mediaplayer / IE. Apparently its a video driver problem.. or so people think.
Defective by design? Yup. Cause? Windows or ATI? I really don't give a shit, it just shouldn't happen.
I'm not in front of the machine, but I have a Qosmio G20 at the house that I installed Windows Vista on (with no problems except sleep mode barfing).
Quicktime doesn't bluescreen, but instead pops up an useless error code (quicktime fashioned) and suggests that the file does not exist.
I haven't tried this on the Qosmio G30 or the Satellite P100 I have yet, but for the most part, I'd guess it has something to do with Quicktime disliking the Qosmio Raid driver (which is the only reason I don't like my Qosmio machines).
As for looking into it, Vista has some tools similar to strace on Linux now and I intend to take a look at it soon. I would gamble on the fact that it has something to do with Apples useless obsession with doing stupid things like porting large portions of the Carbon framework to Windows. The data/resource forking, if I have seen it clearly is actually implemented by making use of NTFS metadata (WHY!!!). I would bet that this has something to do with it.
Nothing for you to see here. Move along.
They didn't coin that particular phrase. IIRC it was originally used by commentators to describe the 1984 UK Labour Party manifesto.
[/pedantry]
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Vista = BSOD
Who the fuck is moderating these days?
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html
No kernel panic, no system hosing here, ok?
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
If any client asks for more than its fair share of resources, DENY them to it. Then, and only then, this is a client's bug. If you ask for more and more of my resources and I keep giving them to you until I myself starve, it's MY problem, not yours.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
the above runs and stops immediately with no output and no errors.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Once again we have a situation where several pieces of closed-source software from several vendors act in concert to do something other than they were supposed to do.
Is anyone surprised by this?
Here's a fact for you to chew on: If you had the source code to the complete software stack, someone could have fixed it by now.
Don't blame Toshiba, don't blame Microsoft, don't blame Apple. Blame your government for allowing software vendors to conceal Source Code from users in the first place. Food manufacturers have to label their ingredients and nutritional content. Cigarette manufacturers have to label their tar and nicotine. It's time software manufacturers were kicked into touch as well. Stop deluding yourselves -- keeping the Source Code secret from users benefits nobody. It doesn't stop unauthorised copying, it just pisses users off by ensuring they can't fix their own problems.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I had this exact same problem a couple of years ago, it was caused by bad (terrible) drivers for the Adaptec SATA card I had (1210sa, using Sil 3112 chipset).
Moving the mov file to any drive not using that controller and it played perfectly.
From the 1210sa, an instant unrecoverable lock would occur. maybe 5% of mov's I tried wouldn't lock the drive, but those that did it was a definite and 100% repeatable problem, irrespective of player used, or quicktime version.
I reported it to Adaptec several times, as it was fixed and then broken again with different releases, but never acknowledged.
Changed to a Promise controller instead.
Maybe if Microsoft listen Tanenbaum and didn't put the video at the same level as the kernel, this will never happen.
Has a nice ring to it.
> opening a locally stored QuickTime .MOV causes instant bluescreen
"Doctor, I get terrible heartburn every time I eat dried habanero peppers!"
So don't do that. Duh.
Does anyone even still *use* QuickTime format? I thought practically everyone that just couldn't stand to use MPEG (presumably because it's too widely supported and therefore the format of hoi polloi) had gone over to either WMV or Ogg Theora, or Flash. I haven't seen anything in QuickTime format for over a decade, I think. I didn't even know they were still making the software for it.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Quicktime is NOT vista ready!
There. you have your fucking answer. Apple KNOWS IT DOESN'T WORK IN VISTA, AND HAS NEVER CLAIMED IT WILL.
now wait for the patch, and STFU.
I think (i do not know - so back off, i'm guessing) that there is some kind of problem with Vista and video... at least, i'm seeing a trend.
I don't think this even counts as "guessing." Maybe "flailing around wild assertions."
What "trend" are you seeing? That some dude who posted on Slashdot had a problem with his Toshiba and you had a problem with your Mac in the same week? Seriously? Or do you have some actual... what's what word... oh yeah, *data* to support this 'trend?'
Come on, Slashdotters. If I said, "I think there's a trend with OS X and having tacky desktop backgrounds! I saw it on two computers today!" would you mod that up to +5 as well?
Comment of the year
Or. . . we could all just get rid of quicktime. I personaly hate the format. But maybe thats just me.
that you need to roll back to XP. Vista demonstrates yet another way that it is evil.
Delete quicktime task from the quicktime directory, and remove it from startup in the registry.
You need to delete it because it will put itself back in the registry the next time you use quicktime.
QTTask insists on trying to access files that aren't there (like on a zip drive, USB key, CD, etc) and causes contention problems. It is not a Windows thing, not a Toshiba thing, but a Apple insisting on being a sticky app thing. I hope it bites them in the ass.
Wow, here's guy whose computer doesn't work! Well look fellows, since we're being so touchy-feely here...
/mnt/windows." So I boot into Linux to read the logs. The logs didn't take long to read, as they were all zero bytes long each.
My cat tripped over the PC's power cord. It was hilarious... but the computer wouldn't restart. It would go into LILO, then windows, then a flash of blue, then it would restart. Over and over.
So I thought "well hell I wonder if Linux works. Next boot (#372 unless I lost count) I told LILO to go into Linux.
Damn, Linux is hosed too. Booting into "failsafe" got it working again (phew). Well, maybe I could boot XP into safe mode? Nope, after getting listings of all the drivers and crap it's loading, it hangs.
So I try safe mode in DOS. Apparently, "DOS" stands for "Denial of service" because I get the same thing, a list of crap that was being loaded (for a command line OS?????) but not a word about what it was trying unsucessfully to load.
So I figure, "Hey, I can read the logs from LINUX, as my C: frive is
I wound up reformatting C: and reinstalling XP. I guess I have to call them for product activation. But anyway, can anyone tell me what's wrong with my computer?
Oh, I have to submit this as a front page story? Well hell...
OK, How about my problem with hookers? Hou guys like hookers don't you? Ok, I've got three hookers living with me and I can't get laid...
-mcgrew
Don't install Vista. And now you owe me $150.00. Thank you.
Regular Meta Moderators are not more likely to get mod points.
Is why are you running windows Vista on a Toshiba machine!. Get a iBook already!
Okay jokes aside. I think the hardware and software vendors failed along side with MS big time with Vista rollout. I personally would not touch them until they can get all their issues fixed. A lot have to do with messy programming and tricks and shortcuts used when they're "just trying to get things working".
On Linux it's been a really long time I haven't crashed a machine. Yet I tend to experiment recent kernels / packages etc. One thing I do notice once in while when "pushing the limits" (i.e. not when doing something as trivial as playing a movie), is that sometimes I can lock X pretty hard (last time it happened I was playing with Xen, running Windows XP under Linux, allowing Xen to directly display Windows XP to the Linux X server... Which I don't recommend: VNC or remote desktop is way better). IOW, the video card is in bad state... But the system keeps running fine, exactly like it should. At this point if you can remotely log in the machine you can usually kill/restart X. Sometimes a utility like "vga_reset" (32 bits only) may help. If you can't log remotely to the machine Magic SysRQ usually helps a lot (which is why when I'm installing a distro whose default kernel doesn't have Magic SysRQ compiled in I add it).
So, sure, this is not stuff your grandma is going to do... But my point is simply that I have a hard time remembering when messing with the video card could reboot the whole system. In TFA an Apple application BSOD probably because a faulty video driver from Toshiba. But why oh why does a faulty video driver mean that the whole system has to crash? Common paid MS astroturfers fanboys, explain that...
If I'm not mistaken on OpenBSD they're going one step further: they eventually plan to be able to run X Window Server with no special privilege at all, using a framebuffer. It may be very slow (no 3D accel etc.), but it's one additional protection measure (as well from a security point of view than from a "X cannot crash the whole system" one). I may be wrong on that though.
I get an instant BSOD if I open a
In the same PC, another drive on the on-board nVidia Raid controller will open the same file fine, it would also play from a CD, a memory stick or compact flash card.
Never did work out why.
Never be afraid to ask. Wisdom must be gathered before it can be given.
I installed Vista on my MacPro - in 12 minutes, i had a successfully BSOD'd Vista by playing a standard DiVX 6.0 file on Vista.
So you installed Vista on a platform with beta drivers from a Microsoft competitor and complain with it bluescreens? That part's definitely not a shock.
I wish I had mod points because this post is offtopic. Bad drivers can bring down Windows in a hurry, we knew that. We've known it for years. I don't see any evidence that your bluescreen was caused by the DRM mechanism.
The rest of your post is somewhat insightful but completely off topic. XP being "EOL in 7 months"? Where'd you come up with that?
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/pro/faq.html Sure, you can try, but any BSOD's you get are your own dang fault. So stop whining.
...til Lotus won't run.
You are alone, and don't call me Seams.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
This is a problem that is known by Microsoft and fix/KB Article was generated for it around the Feb/Mar timeframe. The link to the KB is:
d tlViewDL.jsp?soid=1663403&moid=1209152&BV_SessionI D=@@@@0267420348.1177345927@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccchad dkkdidhdkcgfkceghdgngdgmn.0&ct=DL
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932094/
Additionally, if you check Toshiba's support site - they have a link to update their RAID driver for Windows Vista on Protege tablets/laptops that specifically addresses this at the following URL:
http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/su/su_sc_
From their site: This driver corrects a "blue screen" issue that occurs when a movie or audio file is played from the hard disk drive, using Apple's QuickTime player. This driver is for Windows Vista computers only.
This probably is the hotfix listed at the Microsoft site. Try it and see if it solves your problem...
With any luck, MS will release another version of Vista for content creators. That would make, what, six versions in all? Or am I falling behind?
Anyway, I'll be looking forward to Vista Pretension Basic and Vista Pretension Artiste. (Wait! That's seven versions!)
I've seen some tacky desktops recently, too!
(Hi Blakey!)
I KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING! I have Vista on a Dell with 2 hard drives. When I run an mpeg4 file in quicktime, one of my hard drives is instantly degraded and intel's storage manager goes haywire. It starts running off just one of the drives and says the other drive is corrupted and needs to be replaced. If I didn't have 2 hard drives, I would surely crash. If I run it again, it will take down the other hard drive and then I get a BSOD. Quicktime never shows up, just forces a Vista "there was a problem with the application" error.
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Did anyone perceive difference in multimedia real time behavior between xp and vista on the same machine?