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What Can 4-yr-olds Understand About Science?

dr.karl.b asks: "My 3 and a half year old son is in Kindergarten. Here in Germany that includes 3 to 6 year olds. He is supposed to explain what his parents' occupations are. I am a scientist, and despite all the advice I have received saying he can't understand what I do, I am determined to try. I study self-motion perception, from basic-science vestibular processing to the role of real-motion cues in flight simulation. We have several cool labs in my institute, like robot-arm motion simulators and full-immersion virtual reality set-ups. We can easily compete with amusement parks for wow-factor, but I have 2 questions: How can I explain my work to my son? How can I invite his class (3-6 yr olds) to our institute to have them learn AND have fun, rather than ONLY have fun?"

192 comments

  1. 4 year olds and science by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


    What Can 4-yr-olds Understand About Science?

    They can understand that 6000 years ago a superbeing created the universe and all things within. That dinosaurs lived on Noah's ark and that... oh wait, you're in Germany. Forget all that, you can teach your son actual facts!

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can they understand that some people are just mad because they don't have any better explanation?

    2. Re:4 year olds and science by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Even in North Carolina(part of the southern US but nowhere near as far down as, say, Alabama) my biology teacher taught evolution, although apparently if your parents kicked and screamed enough you could get out of biology class for that part of it.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    3. Re:4 year olds and science by HullBreachOnline.com · · Score: 1

      Troll?

    4. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Son... this is the honest truth about the universe:

      The universe was created by an all-powerful all-knowing being who came down to us in the form of a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father who can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

      Your little friends might laugh at you when you tell them, but trust me... pretty much all us grown-ups actually believe this is true.

    5. Re:4 year olds and science by Phase+Shifter · · Score: 1

      Even in North Carolina(part of the southern US but nowhere near as far down as, say, Alabama) my biology teacher taught evolution
      Even in Alabama they teach evolution...or at least taught it two decades ago. I have no idea what goes on in high schools today, though.
    6. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's gotta be one of the greatest posts ever.

    7. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They can understand that 6000 years ago a superbeing created the universe and all things within. That dinosaurs lived on Noah's ark

      Starting May 28 those of you who live in the Kentucky area will be able to take your kids to a "museum" that will teach them those very things. Presenting AiG's 27 million dollar monument to ignorance.

    8. Re:4 year olds and science by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      > who can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh

      The catholics say it's not symbolic, but that you are actually eating his flesh. It turns into his flesh and blood literally.

    9. Re:4 year olds and science by rozz · · Score: 1

      great post

      --
      "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
    10. Re:4 year olds and science by Skywings · · Score: 1

      The catholics say it's not symbolic, but that you are actually eating his flesh. It turns into his flesh and blood literally.

      You would say that after inhaling all the smoke from the burning incense.
    11. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      Maybe we can just teach them to have no morals and poke fun at religion. Considering it's one of the only ways for parents to even attempt to teach children some type of values, under the inevitable fact that they'll eventually find out the science of things.

      I'd rather take my children to a church, synagogue or mosque... AND teach them about science to let them decide themselves. Not only because they need something to believe in, but I'd rather them not grow up to be a douchebag that makes fun of religion.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    12. Re:4 year olds and science by grub · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I'm not making fun of religon, I'm making fun of those who would pollute science with their superstition in an attempt at creating a theocracy.

      The whole idea that no religion == no morality is crap. Morality is ingrained in us as a social animal, the loner of the tribe wouldn't have likely had survived long enough to reproduce. There are countless books that touch on the subject (ie.: The Moral Animal, Breaking the Spell, etc.) The "Let the children decide after exposure to both" is an absolute cop out from the religious nuts. Once a child has been indoctrinated into a religious cult they have a hard time getting out.

      Raising children to believe in any sort of mythology is child abuse.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    13. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Maybe we should just teach them to be obnoxious idiots and pricks like yourself, rather than gain any substance. I grew up around religion, as did my family and almost everyone I know. And though I know about evolution and all of the "mythology" in religion, I still find that if it weren't for my years as a child, I would have grown up wondering, "why are we here, if there's no afterlife."

      As far fetched as it may seem, it made me feel better knowing that there was something, that I could possibly believe in. I believe that if I didn't.. or if I didn't give a shit about my children, they'd end up to be exactly like you. Having an "I don't give a fuck" idealogy... "fuck the world, after we die it's it..." sense of life... rather than having something called "RESPECT" for other people.

      Please.. reply with all you know, I'm not PREACHING about religion, just the idea that kids need to grow up with some substance and have SOMETHING to believe in. Just because you think it's MYTHOLOGY, should we take out fairy tales... nursery rhymes... greek history and cartoons, just because we don't want kids to believe in things that aren't real?

      And, for YOU, of all people to judge what is good for a child and what is not.. proves how much you actually know outside of intellectual book-smarts.

      If only you had some personality to go with your side of ignorance.

      I don't go to church. I don't take my kids to church. But I'm not going to raise my kids to think there is no God, there's nothing to believe in, after you die you'll never see me and you should spend your time flaming religion because it's the only meaning to life.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    14. Re:4 year olds and science by Timberwolf0122 · · Score: 1

      I think most of us here have no problem with religeon, just quite a few considerit to be a collosal waste of time and effort (like putting wheels on a tomateo). Now if it makes you happy then thats great, however I do object most strongly to the teaching of Psuedo-science in schools - If you want to teach creationism then do so in either philosophy or Relious Education as it has zero foundation in science.
      Okay that last part was not aimed directly at the parent poster, more at fundies in general.

      can't we all just get along?

      --
      In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
    15. Re:4 year olds and science by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Peter Griffin: Wow, is that really the blood of Christ?
      Preacher: Yes.
      Peter Griffin: Wow, that guy must've been wasted 24 hours a day, huh?

    16. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      I agree...

      It all may be stretched-truth in quite a few sorts, but they're some of the earliest recordings of history. From a lot of the research that I've seen, some of the strange occurences that were described in several religions are quite possibly, scientifically explained. In fact, what other way is there to describe an ocean parting when there is no existing knowledge of science.... when in fact, a tsunami quite possibly caused the subsidance of water in the first place, but how were the to know?

      As far as the creation of man, I don't know how anyone could document it when nobody was there to witness it in the first place... it's obvious that things had to be made up to try and take care of doubt and question. On the other hand, the fact that matter in a vast, blank space even exists and the wonder of how it all got here, makes you wonder how it was created... let alone how insigificant we are.

      I'd rather my kids not grow up thinking that there is no meaning to life, even if it means creating some type of belief or doubt. I mean, there has to be some reason to go on when times get hard, ya know?

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    17. Re:4 year olds and science by grub · · Score: 1


      If you want to believe in a grand afterlife with angels and harps where you and your kids will float on clouds with you in a super, eternal picnic after you all die, go for it.

      You may think you're somewhat free of religion (not going to church, etc.) but your ad hominem attacks speak volumes. It shows I struck a nerve as, really, you know nothing about me other than I think religion is a sham yet you call me an "obnoxious idiot", a prick, ignorant and suggest I have no personality (my family and friends will laugh at that, I'm the class clown with personality in spades)

      Religious folks are a lot like Pavlov's dogs, ring that anti-religion bell and they foam at the mouth (and often mark me as a "Foe" on slashdot, so much for not judging, eh?) Between insults your post is all about what you want to believe, not what's real. Facts are proof, desire is not.

      I really don't get why religion has to be this sacred cow that no one can make fun of. It's OK to make fun of Dr. Seuss or Harry Potter... Anyhow, Feel free to have the last word, I've been down this tired road before and won't waste my time replying further.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    18. Re:4 year olds and science by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > let them decide themselves
      > they need something to believe in ... "You can think what you want, as long as you believe in God."

      > I'd rather them not grow up to be a douchebag that makes fun of religion.

      Instead of a douchebag who gets upset and throws a hissyfit because some other guy is a douchebag. Then claiming that douchebag is representative of "the opposition."

    19. Re:4 year olds and science by hesiod · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying, in a nutshell, is "If I can't explain something to my kids, I make some shit up (or tell them what someone else made up) and hope they don't call me on it."

      And I'm fairly sure that right now, you are thinking "man, this guy's an asshole!" But...

      > there has to be some reason to go on when times get hard, ya know?

      the lack of religion does not indicate IN ANY WAY the lack of hope. Even if I know I'm going to die and just rot in the ground (as opposed to dancing on golden streets in the clouds, which would be way cool) I still have hope that things can become better. That I can have experiences while I am alive that could simply blow my mind and make me think "well gee, even if I suffered more than anyone in the world for the last 70 years, this moment was worth it."

    20. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Why do you even type? You keep proving you're a piece of shit.

      First off... you're either fresh out of college or still in college and hate life, therefore you think you know everything... or you're 40, with no girlfriend or wife, so therefore you just hate everything and lead yourself to believe that it's by your own choice that it happens.

      Either way, do you mind telling me exactly what your knowledge is, and experience of raising children? Other than having a shitty childhood and growing up hating your parents which didn't pay attention to you, or are probably divorced... what is your true knowledge of raising children? Do you know what's best for them? Obviously you must know MUCH more than your parents did, because they obviously made you love life and respect others.

      Any ideas? How should I raise my kids? To be like you? Or SHROUD their eyes with the insanity of religion and GOD... OH NOOOOO... should I teach them to fight the man as well? Just go for the gusto eh?

      Please reply, use wordplay on what I've posted and scrutinize everything I've said for some type of errors. While you're at it, get a thesaurus out and figure out some type of garble to communicate with. When you're finished, tell me how many children you have, and how fucked up children are when they're raised by religion. I guess it's 99% of the planet that's fucked up and YOU'RE the one that's fighting the man, because you're cool.

      So, whether religion makes sense or not.. you're the part of the 1% that isn't fucked up and blinded by the religious light.

      More wordplay?

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    21. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      Religion is based on tradition. But it doesn't mean it's the fucking root of all evil like every toolbag on here is making it out to be.

      Is it WRONG to teach kids a belief that was passed on over thousands of generations? Just because science has proven itself, should everyone just DROP religion and say "fuck it"?

      I understand your point, and I'm not flaming you.. ..I respect that. I just know that growing up with religious roots hasn't made anyone I know, any more fucked up than the next person. In fact, as expected, most of them created their own ideology down the line.. but, the fact that people still practice it, isn't bad.

      On the other hand, blowing yourself up, picketting funerals or killing for religion is extreme.. which shows you the power of religion, in which case.. YES, it would fuck you up.

      I'm not a bible pusher, and I'm not active in church.. the only thing I think is, "I went to church when I was a kid.. and it was good for me. Why not raise my kids that way, when I know I didn't turn out that bad?" You know? They don't have to preach it, or be active all their life... but a sense of direction and the lessons that are learned in church are genuine. Some teach creationism and all the far-fetched stories.. but all the little stories in-between about not killing, spreading peace and such are invaluable when you're raising a kid.... at least in my book. It's not all about heaven, hell, God and such..... as much as it is the lessons to be learned.

      Raising a kid isn't easy, and never has been. If it means taking my kid to church and singing songs and them learning the tales of the bible to help them along, so be it.

      I'm not saying that it's a replacement for everything in one's life.. .but, I need all the help I can get, even if it's ancient stories.

      My parents never pushed religion on me. In fact, my dad just said that he didn't care if I believed in church or God, just as long as I believed in something. It all came about with my frustration of the Catholic religion when he went there. My mom was of another denomonation, and I went there to see my friends on the weekends. We learned stories from the Bible and played with friends.. colored and such. As we got older, we learned a bit more and eventually quit going as much. I mean, it made me who I am in some sorts... wasn't brain washing by any means, but it was good for me as a kid. We spent time with family and friends, and it was a good routine.

      Why would I put my kids through that? Not as force, but because I think they'd actually like to go. If they don't like it.. I won't take em.

      Again, it's not a flame against you, and I REALLY understand what you're sayin. I don't want to seem like a nut either, I just want the best for my kids.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    22. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty typical atheist distortion of the truth. Put away your lies and hatred, save them for the real enemies.

    23. Re:4 year olds and science by hesiod · · Score: 1

      Funny, I'm smack in the middle of your age guesses: almost 30. I'd guess your age, but I don't really want to find out that you are an adult and still act the way you do.

      > with no girlfriend or wife, so therefore you just hate everything and lead yourself to believe that it's by your own choice that it happens

      I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. If I had no wife/GF, you are saying I should blame everyone else? That I'm powerless over my life? Thanks for justifying any terrible act anyone in the world has ever committed.

      > hating your parents which didn't pay attention to you

      No, my parents are pretty cool people and were very loving. My parents are one of the few couples I know who have never been divorced (neither one, ever).

      I think that I do know more than my parents, because that should be the goal of ANY parent -- for their children to better off than they are. Of course, some things they know more about than I do. That is the same for almost any person, I hope.

      > How should I raise my kids? To be like you?

      To be decent people who can learn to think for themselves. But if you make sure they are not exposed to anything that offends your religious sensibilities

      It's interesting that you attack me for pointing out that you and the person you were railing against are on opposite extremes of each other, and then make ad-hominem attacks. Not only that, but they were (for the most part) wildly wrong. And you assume that I am going to be a grammar nazi and go nuts like you did, instead of answering your points... If you had made any, that is -- besides "I raise my kids how I see fit," which makes for a nice "mind your own damn business" quote, but as we can all tell from people we meet every day, that's not always the best policy.

      You have only helped the original poster believe he was right in condemning you as a closed-minded jerk. Hooray for standing up for your religion and your morals!

    24. Re:4 year olds and science by hesiod · · Score: 1

      hit sumbit too soon, and left a part unfinished...
      > But if you make sure they are not exposed to anything that offends your religious sensibilities

      then they will not be able to do that.

    25. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 3, Informative

      OK... let me translate the tongue-in-cheek version you are calling lies and hatred on a phrase-by-phrase basis into a Church-Speak(tm) version and you tell me which part is a distortion of what many believe to be true:

      Let us pray to the All-mighty God, creator of the Universe, who came down to us Himself in the form His son Jesus Christ - He who was reborn from the dead, risen so that He may cleanse us of our sins and grant us eternal life. By eating the bread that is the body of Jesus and drinking the wine that is His blood, we pray to Jesus to accept Him as our Savior, whom we worship and none other. We pray that He remove our sins, both those we have committed ourselves and the original sin Of Adam and Eve with which we were born.

      I'd say the two are presenting the identical facts, albeit using slightly different terminology and phrasing... and heck, you might actually hear the second one in a church on any given Sunday.

    26. Re:4 year olds and science by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      Damn, is that ever getting old.

    27. Re:4 year olds and science by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      First, no one is trying to create a theocracy. That's just your own antitheistic paranoia. If you want to be paranoid, there is a plutocracy that's alive and well here in the US.
      Second, how the hell is raising a kid to believe whatever religion child abuse? Even if it were, raising them to be overzealous about not believing whatever religion would be just as bad. As it would seem, you wouldn't want your kids exposed to religious stuff so that they may make their own decisions, because it may be different than your own. That seems pretty abusive. You know what else seems abusive: teaching them that everything they read is correct, just because it's in a science textbook. Face it, a lot of stuff we KNOW is a fact today will be laughable in a century, and like it or not, Darwinian evolution will probably be one of them, and it probably would be on the way out already, were it not for over zealous Neo-Darwinists holding science back with their idiocy.
      Third, you may feel that no religion != no morality, and I know that every one of the atheists I know, as well as myself, agree with that, but not all atheists feel that way. Everyone's favorite attention whore, Richard Dawkins, seems to think that there is no such thing as morels, unless, of course he's calling religion immoral.
      Fourth, what's up with that 'once a child has been indoctrinated into a religious cult they have a hard time getting out'line? What century are you posting from?

    28. Re:4 year olds and science by kpesler · · Score: 1

      My friend, I ask in total sincerity, what is about Christianity that irritates you so much? Do you truly believe that all Christians are simply morons? You might consider that there a quite a few counterexamples to that assertion. That it is psychological weakness that brings us to accept this crutch? You would have to be ignorant of the demands of faith. That we are all hypocrites? There you may have more ground, for a Christian is just as human as any other, and we all harbor a greater or lesser degree of hypocrisy. That we are judgemental? There again, many times we are, but that is our failing, and not that of our faith, or of our God. I ask you only to consider that some of the greatest minds in history, and of our own time, have been those of Christians. If those as learned and intelligent as they, who questioned all things mightily, found reason to believe, might they not have seen something you missed? Or were they all simply fools?

    29. Re:4 year olds and science by grub · · Score: 1

      Heh, I saved the original post. It's already a classic IMHO.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    30. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > My friend, I ask in total sincerity, what is about Christianity that irritates you so much?

      It's exactly as believable as Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy.

      Look at it from my point of view: What's irritating is that a bunch of supposed rational adults are attempting to run their lives according to a firm belief in the tooth fairy. They are trying to change laws and reshape society in a way that only makes sense if a crazed woman in a Tu-Tu steals teeth from small children and pays them for the privilage.

      This is exactly how ridiculous your belief system seems to me. You'd find it irritating too.

      > Do you truly believe that all Christians are simply morons?

      Frankly - yes. Well - perhaps they were brainwashed as children - perhaps there are societal pressures - but I find them trivially easy to shrug off - I think rational human beings should think rationally. Yeah - morons.

      > You might consider that there a quite a few counterexamples to that assertion.

      Few - very, very few.

      > That it is psychological weakness that brings us to accept this crutch?

      I have no clue - it's totally irrational.

      > You would have to be ignorant of the demands of faith.

      There are no demands - you can simply choose to disbelieve at any time - what demands?

      > That we are all hypocrites?

      Certainly! If you truly believed that there was this supreme being who told you how to live your lives - you'd live them that way - you would fear to steal a pencil from the office supply closet at work. You would have to think twice about rather fancying that new car.

      Religious people are no more careful in that regard than a typical atheist - that's certainly hypocracy.

      > There you may have more ground, for a Christian is just as human as any other, and we all harbor a greater or lesser degree of hypocrisy. That we are judgemental? There again, many times we are, but that is our failing, and not that of our faith, or of our God. I ask you only to consider that some of the greatest minds in history, and of our own time, have been those of Christians. If those as learned and intelligent as they, who questioned all things mightily, found reason to believe, might they not have seen something you missed? Or were they all simply fools?

      Blah, blah, god, blah, blah. I can't be bothered to parse this load of crap. You are a biological computer that's evolved from the primordial ooze by a series of coincidences, your goal is to pass your genes onto the next generation. Beyond that, be nice to people - have fun. The end.

      (I'm posting as A.C because I don't happen to be at my PC right now - I'm not hiding - I'm Steve Baker and you can email me at steve AT sjbaker DOT org - but please don't try to convince me or anything - it just makes me even more angry at you idiots).

    31. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      It's not some "sacred cow" per se... The reason it fired me up to begin with was because a guy was sincerely asking what he could teach kids about science. The first thing up was some inane bash at at religion.

      My apologies for the outbursts and name-calling, but you have to see where I'm coming from. All religion aside, raising a kid has always been a beast and people need all they can get when doing so. When I grew up, I went to church and such because it was basically the only thing to do where I lived. I was basically on a farm. I liked going to church because I didn't really have to take tests, I got to see other kids, they told stories, we colored, made crafts and such. People didn't do it to try and brainwash anyone, it was just how they grew up and it's how it was for generations.

      I liked my childhood. The stories and lessons they taught in the classes (mythology or not) had some valuable insight on all types of things while growing up. Of course, when I got older the reasoning for the writings all came into focus, the religion became a bit more clear and I had my own ideas. It didn't make me say, "screw religions.. they should all be diminished." by any means... but, if I know it wasn't brainwashing and I actually liked it as a kid along with it working well for my family... I'd like to think that it would benefit my child as well.

      OF COURSE, when he gets older, he'll realize it's hard to believe..... just like the easter bunny and santa claus.. but, is it REALLY that bad for someone to want something good for their children when they grow up?

      I mean, (aside from other religions or no religion) who didn't like Santa or the Easter bunny? They were made up from those religions for whatever reason, but without the basis, false or not, they wouldn't exist.

      Those little holidays are some of my greatest memories, ya know?

      I see where you're coming from, and I know your reasoning... I'd just rather my kids grow up with some of the same traditions I did, and in order to do that... they have to know why.

      Religion isn't going to go away, but it's not going to hurt to teach my kids about it.

      This all reminds me of the South Park episode that involved Cartman getting a Wii, and all the religions ceasing to exist. In the end, the different scientology groups faught over a name.

      Again, my apologies for the outbursts..

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    32. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're either fresh out of college or still in college and hate life, therefore you think you know everything... or you're 40, with no girlfriend or wife, so therefore you just hate everything and lead yourself to believe that it's by your own choice that it happens.
      Dude, mindreading over the internet never works. Something to to with the tubes.
    33. Re:4 year olds and science by Circlotron · · Score: 1

      If you actually read the Book rather than listening to churchgoing lamebrains who constantly misrepresent it, you will read that 1/ The earth was made. 2/ Then it sat around for an undisclosed period of time (billions of years?)in a raw, unfinished state. 3/ After that the six creative "days" were for the preparation of it for life on it. Those six "days" have =nothing= to do with the initial creation of the earth or the rest of the universe for that matter.

    34. Re:4 year olds and science by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 1

      Oh, ROFL until it hurts! You're going to "hell" for that one! :-)

    35. Re:4 year olds and science by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      My friend, I ask in total sincerity, what is about Christianity that irritates you so much?

      I wouldn't assume from the GP that the poster is irritated, rather amused. I know I'm amused. Was that representation of christianity inaccurate?

      Perhaps when you see the basics of a religion put like that, you might start to see why some of us believe religion has no place in government.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    36. Re:4 year olds and science by grub · · Score: 1


      Really?

      Where does it say any of what you wrote? Do you have any proof to back a shred of that up or is it all wishful thinking? The geologic evidence doesn't support the earth sitting dormant for billions of years, but feel free to disprove the scientific facts.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    37. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 1

      Although my post is a bit sarcastic about some of the beliefs of Christian mythology, is there any part of the post that is actually inaccurate or false in the description of the beliefs of Christianity?

      I'm sure you wouldn't be as offended if I made fun of some other religion which believes that an evil alien overlord threw victims into volcanos and blew them up with nukes.

      But come on, when you're following the writings of a guy three thousand years ago who went out into the desert and fasted and then had a hallucination about a talking burning bush over modern science, I have at least a little reason to poke fun at you.

    38. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To quote Arthur C. Clarke: "let's say: not insane, but mentally impaired, owing to childhood conditioning."

    39. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 1

      Religion is based on tradition. But it doesn't mean it's the fucking root of all evil like every toolbag on here is making it out to be.

      Is it WRONG to teach kids a belief that was passed on over thousands of generations? Just because science has proven itself, should everyone just DROP religion and say "fuck it"?


      Believing the world was a flat disc was based on tradition. Does that mean we should stop teaching that to kids just because science has proven it wrong? By your logic, everyone who teaches their kid the earth is spherical should be called a "toolbag".

    40. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      It's not even close to the same.

      Did you, or do you celebrate Christmas, Easter or anything of the such when you grew up as a child?

      Santa Claus?

      Easter Bunny?

      Jewish Holidays?

      Muslim Holidays?

      When you finally decide to have children, when any of these holidays come about and your child (given you copulate and reproduce) asks you why other children celebrate other holidays, what would you say?

      "Well son, we don't practice a religion because it's only tradition and is proven to be scientifically incorrect. Pull up a chair and practice some physics instead. It's the right thing to do."

      Traditions, superstitions and religions have existed before the existance of recorded time. To practice religion without violence and pure tradition is no different than a kid growing up to believe that at one time there were fire breathing dragons that walked the earth. WHO CARES if it's real or not? Eventually he'll realize the big picture, like everyone else... and all the scientific reasoning behind it.

      The TOOLBAGS aren't the believers or disbelievers (in the regarding post), but those who think that modern day religion is "the root of all evil". NOT those who disbelieve, just those who are stupid enough to think and rant that people who are religious and the religions themselves are EVIL.

      Granted, back in the day, religion was much more strict and pressed on younger children than it is now. It had much different reasons and there was MUCH more violence than their is now. There IS still violence, but Modern day Christianity has mellowed out and families use the tradition for other reasons, rather than making it a MUST to do.

      Because it was pushed on YOU... or your Parents when they were younger, doesn't mean that it's pushed on children as much now. There are SOME people that still stress it and are fairly extreme, but you have that everywhere, for everything, even when it doesn't involve religion.

      Just because Santa Claus doesn't exist and parents lead children to believe he does, doesn't mean that they or the children are evil for making it up. They simply enjoy being parents and making them smile. I know this can be done in SO many ways, but it's genuine and harmless.

      Some day you'll understand where I'm coming from if you actually have a family. 5 Years ago I had the same outlook as you.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    41. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 1

      I still don't get your logic. I never said once religion was evil. Actually, I believe Religion is mostly good for society as long as it allows people to behave in a moral fashion out of fear of some mythical deity when they are too weak-minded to behave morally just for the good of society. The only time I have a problem with Relision is when people start trying to shove their MYTHS down my throat as FACTS and try to pass laws that intrude on my rights and my beliefs.

      Just because you might teach your kids to believe in the Tooth Fairy doesn't mean we should pass laws to make everyone believe in the Tooth Fairy. And it certainly isn't wrong for me to tell my kids the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist... or for me to expect that another grown up adult would realize the Tooth Fairy is a myth.

      Religion is being pushed on me all the time and you're saying I should feel OK with being forced to indoctrinate my kids in the belief of the Tooth Fairy just because it's your tradition or I'm an asshole?

    42. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      I never ONCE said that it's okay to FORCE religion on ANYONE. In fact, I didn't say I was FORCING it on my children, rather than letting them enjoy shit that I did for Christ sakes. If you actually READ my fucking posts in the past, you'd find that I said I don't even GO to church or practice it regularly as I did when I was a kid.

      MY POINT of all this fucking arguing and inane bullshit that you're prolonging, was that SOME FUCKFACE decided to FORCE HIS OWN thoughts of ANTI religion bullshit on some dude that was basically asking what he could teach his CHILDREN'S CLASSMATES!

      I've NEVER pushed religion on people, or even thought of it... I don't give a FLYING FUCK if anyone's got a religion, IN FACT my WIFE DOESN"T EVEN HAVE ONE!...

      FUCK!

      I didn't even start the ass-clown bullshit of running my mouth about how religion blows. I NEVER even mentioned stupid ass laws that govern them, either!

      NEVER did I even say that NOT having a religion is stupid in any way, or that anyone should even have one!

      I don't fucking carrrreeee!

      I just care that SOME idiots push ANTI religion on the rest of us, complaining about SOME people that push it on others.

      I'm not trying to throw it down anyone's throat, as much as make them realize that it's not just about the religion, but for the sanctity of the children we're tryin to raise.

      Most people that are flaming about religion will probably NEVER even have children.

      I know you're not ragin about the religions yourself, as much as bible pushers... BUT PLEASE read my posts from the beginning and try to realize why I did it. The guy was just asking what to teach his kids.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    43. Re:4 year olds and science by adisakp · · Score: 1

      SOME FUCKFACE decided to FORCE HIS OWN thoughts of ANTI religion bullshit on some dude that was basically asking what he could teach his CHILDREN'S CLASSMATES!

      You mean like the silly idea about teaching evolution over creationism in biology class?

      PLEASE read my posts from the beginning and try to realize why I did it.

      To be honest, I can't find a single logically sound argument in any of your posts. It's all emotional ranting that we should teach our children the same things we were told regardless of the progress of knowledge contrary to previously held beliefs. I'm just glad our cavemen ancestors didn't all feel the same way as you or I'd be hunting with a club and sleeping on a rock.

    44. Re:4 year olds and science by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      I didn't say "WE" should teach our kids anything.

      Those were your words.

      I've seen more anti-religion posts on here than I have ANYONE pushing religion on anyone.

      Luckily you have a few /. friends to stand by your side and hold your hand when you keep arguing against points that I'm not even talking about.

      Look through the posts again and see where I said "WE" in any of them.

      "I'm just glad our cavemen ancestors didn't all feel the same way as you or I'd be hunting with a club and sleeping on a rock." Your parents must be proud.

      I have no idea why I'm even arguing with you. You obviously have no children, nor do you ever plan on having any... let alone have the capability to understand raising one.

      The "Silly" idea was a completely off-topic rant when a guy was asking about robotics and physics.

      What's even more comical is that YOU are ranting about how people push religion (and I didn't see much of it, other than ranting BACK).... but, it's OKAY to bash worldwide traditions and 99% of the people in the world that have a history of them.

      I never once said that I don't believe in evolution or that I believe in creationism.

      I get the idea that you believe in evolution and scientific fact. I do too. But, you don't see me saying you're wrong for not believing in a religion, do you? Instead, you try to find some other part of my conversation to scrutinize and work your way around what I'm asking.

      I get it. You don't like religion or anyone that talks about it.

      I don't give a shit if anyone has religion or not, most of everyone I know is athiest anyway. I just get FUCKING tired of every other post on /. being bashes against those people, especially when it comes to kids. Don't they have the right to believe in something if it's true or not? And you still didn't answer, why is it WRONG for any random person to believe in something like that? Does it hurt you?

      Obviously it's being forced on you by the man and a preacher fucked your mom.

      Fallacies in religion and bible pushers who tell people about mythological stories are no better than the hipocrites that preach and whine to them about their own scientific thoughts.

      Again, I know science and all about scientific history, but me pushing that on someone makes me no greater than a door to door bible pusher.

      I dont' want you to have a religion, nor do I force anyone else to... but PLEASE, don't tell me that having a religion is wrong if it's not harmful to you.

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    45. Re:4 year olds and science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > But come on, when you're following the writings of a guy three
      > thousand years ago who went out into the desert and fasted and
      > then had a hallucination about a talking burning bush over modern
      > science, I have at least a little reason to poke fun at you.

      That by itself might not be so bad - the ramblings of someone like that ought to be pretty 'out there'. It's the concerted efforts of 100 generations of educated people who've translated, rewritten and reinterpreted those ramblings. In many cases they did that in order to preserve their positions of power over the masses. Cunning tricks like insisting that God wants it written in Latin (when nobody outside the priesthood understood Latin anymore) were commonplace. This was very convenient - and if you wanted to drop in a few more rules or get rid of some inconvenient ones by 'interpreting' them - no problem!

    46. Re:4 year olds and science by space_in_your_face · · Score: 1

      I know I'm amused.

      I am too.

      Was that representation of christianity inaccurate?

      Yes. Or at least according to MY christianity. I can't speak for every christian on this planet.

      The universe was created by an all-powerful all-knowing being who came down to us in the form of a cosmic Jewish Zombie

      Jesus was not a zombie. He was a human being like you and me. We can live in the exact same way as Jesus.

      who was his own father

      The Father and the Son are two different beings, each having feelings, will, etc...

      who can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh

      This is a symbol of a deeper reality. This can't save anybody from anything. The reality is important, not the symbol.

      and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master

      I dont communicate "telepathically" with God. I just speak with him.

      , so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

      This evil force is in me not because of this woman, but because of what I choose to do. I am the one to blame, no one else.

    47. Re:4 year olds and science by John1178 · · Score: 1

      It is your responsibility as a human being to contemplate your existence....you are unique in this universe in the ability to do so....life is a precious vapor, which does not last very long at all. You must be sure of what you believe in because when this vapor diseminates that is all you will be left with. You are not a physical being or some sort of complex intelectual computer. You are an individual human being and should be facinated with the implications and possibilities of that fact. Modern science does not have any explanaition for how the billions of brain cells in your brain seem to work all at once an in sycronization to create a plane of brain fuction that is your conscious. And since your very existence as a thinking, deciding, and acting entity is only understood by scientists through the statistical studies of Phsycology and Sociology there is a deep and great hole in trusting in science only as a guide to your existence. There is nothing in science that can explain your ability at any moment to do whatever you choose to do. For instance at this very moment you can make a fist and pound the table or open the hand and do nothing, you could also at this moment scream any word you know or make up your own word. There would be not one bit of scientic reason or explanation for any of the previous possible action but all are possibilities to you as a human being. Your life is not at all based in science because every minute of it is new and unknown to human knowlege. Science is great but you must investigate all the topics in it for yourself...please do not trust the discover channel or similar low detail level scientific theories...These are the same sources that put on shows about UFO's and aliens, of which there is not one piece of evidence for. Please take a look at the real hard evidence that is out there . It is your responsibility to find out the truth.

  2. Hell, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can barely understand what it is you do.

    1. Re:Hell, by BugZRevengE · · Score: 1

      dude, didn't you read, he works with ROBOTS!

      Well, that's all his kid will care about.

      --
      Why me? Why not!
      BACKUP YOUR PARTITIONS
    2. Re:Hell, by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1

      I can barely understand what it is you do.

      Me too, and I am nearly five.

      --
      **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
  3. Well... by 0racle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Given what most adults and High School graduates currently seem to understand about Science, nothing.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      naaah just ask the guy who got the funds for the project how he convinced the people who funded it and turn it up a notch.

    2. Re:Well... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1, Informative

      Don't forget, however, that this guy is in Germany. People there might actually be somewhat knowledgable about science there.

      German guy: you really screwed up by asking such a question on Slashdot. Most of the readers here are American (makes sense since it's an English-language site), and the rest of the world should know by now that we Americans know absolutely nothing about science, and most of us believe the earth is 6000 years old and that dinosaur fossils are fakes placed there by God to test our faith.

      I suggest asking this question on a German-language site.

    3. Re:Well... by rozz · · Score: 1

      German guy: you really screwed up by asking such a question on Slashdot. Most of the readers here are American (makes sense since it's an English-language site), and the rest of the world should know by now that we Americans know absolutely nothing about science, and most of us believe the earth is 6000 years old and that dinosaur fossils are fakes placed there by God to test our faith.

      I suggest asking this question on a German-language site.

      waaaaaay too much truth in your post ... a very sad side of the truth

      --
      "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
    4. Re:Well... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's pretty sad I got modded flamebait by some people too; I only speak the truth as I see it. After all, is there a serious debate anywhere in Europe about whether Creationism should be taught in public schools? Or anywhere else in the world for that matter? Nope, only in America.

    5. Re:Well... by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      waaaaaay too much truth in your post ... a very sad side of the truth
      Don't think so. America might be the source of some of the dumbest people in the world, but this is still /. here. Anybody who reads or even writes here almost for sure does not belong in the dumb group. Regardless of his heritage. :-)
  4. Concrete examples by Metasquares · · Score: 4, Informative

    They won't understand vestibular processing, but they will probably understand "that dizzy feeling they get when they spin around". You can then explain why that happens when it does, then talk about manipulating balance for virtual reality (maybe using video games or movies as an example) and the work that your lab does. You just need to find some way to relate it to them while maintaining its "coolness".

    1. Re:Concrete examples by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      Six year olds, maybe... I wonder how much of a prodigy a kid would have to be at three to get much out of it.

      I say, keep the words small, the concepts basic, and accept that maybe a few of the kids will remember and learn something from the memory when they're older.

    2. Re:Concrete examples by Rapter09 · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you up but i'm without points. This is a great idea, explaining "that dizzy feeling they get when they spin around" -- apply what they will experience in real life to the job. Personally, I wouldn't worry a ton about the learning part. Maybe fit it in when you can, but, they're kids afterall; let them have more fun that worry about working in some sort of mini cirriculum; not saying that you're going that far but the whole experience - for you and the children - would be better if the fun was the emphasis. They'd get to see some really cool things and if you apply real-life feelings and experiences to that same job I know they'll walk away with something remembered for the rest of their lives.

    3. Re:Concrete examples by tsa · · Score: 1

      Virtual reality? At age 4 people don't even know there is a real reality! Get real! ;)

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Concrete examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtual reality? At age 4 people don't even know there is a real reality! Get real! ;) Even better, the less they know the more open they are to accepting new things ;)
  5. Pennies & light sockets by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 1

    Don't mix

    1. Re:Pennies & light sockets by cicatrix1 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure?

      </evil>

      --

      I know more than you drink.
    2. Re:Pennies & light sockets by Garridan · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Not only are they too big to fit in the slots, but they'd only touch one pole anyway. I had much more success with paperclips as a child.

  6. Tailor it to your audience. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Explain how your science can be used to destroy enemy transformer robots. Or how it can feed the poor downtrodden African masses. Don't kids care about that stuff?

    Or just let the brats have their fun.

  7. 4-year-olds don't understand by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to the studies I've seen 4-year-olds don't tend to have a very good grasp of abstract concepts, and in general understand a lot less than we tend to think -- we adults take a lot of knowledge and conceptual understanding for granted. That doesn't mean you can't make things educational, it just means you have to be careful with exactly what your goals are. I'm guessing that for 4-year-olds even getting them to realise that there is a problem (that we can be cued to think we're moving when we're not) would be a good start. You can probably do that by tricking them into thinking they are moving and then showing them that they weren't. That's relatively abstract -- that their perception of the world isn't always accurate -- but it is the sort of thing that they are starting to get a grasp of at that age anyway. They might not fully grasp it, but there is also the fact even if they don't get it at the time, such experiences have a habit of sticking around and helping inform later realisations, so make it memorable and it will be good. The sort of dawning realisation that could occur, that the world is stranger and more than it appears, and the idea that people (such as yourself) explore such things, well that's a good way to start a fascination with science and trying to understand the world.

    1. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by MoOsEb0y · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. At age 4, I was quite capable of understanding concepts such as memory, sentence structure, and scientific method. The only thing I truly lacked in that time frame was experience. I wouldn't consider myself representative of all humans, but it's certainly possible. Children are much smarter than typical adults give them credit for. With regards to the sibling post about jello, I'd say that most children are limited not by their mental capacities, but by social order in what is considered "cool" to say. I know I certainly held back a lot at that age not because I was stupid and didn't know anything, but because I knew that I was expected to act a certain way.

    2. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by markov_chain · · Score: 3, Funny

      My dad is a jet propulsion scientist. When I was 4, he had a hard time explaining what he did until he showed me the Navier-Stokes equation. Then I was enlightened :)

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    3. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Funny

      I beg to differ. At age 4, I was quite capable of understanding concepts such as memory, sentence structure, and scientific method.
      Perhaps because it's a well known fact that Mooses develop faster than humans.
      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    4. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Coryoth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's great that you understood so much at such a very young age. The issue of what children understand and their cognitive development has been studied however, and I hate to break it to you, but you would appear to be an exceptional case. Skim through the Wikipedia article on Theory of Cognitive Development and you'll get the idea. At 4 most children are still developing a basic cognitive grasp of the world.

      Let me stress (again) that this doesn't mean you can't teach children of that age valuable lessons about science, it just means you have to be careful with your goals. You can lecture the kids on the scientific method, and they'll repeat it back to you beautifully (kids of that age are incredible sponges for information), but that won't mean they'll understand it. I think you'll hve greater impact by playing to their understanding than their remarkable ability to absorb facts. Teaching them that there is more to the world than what their senses tell them, by demonstrating to them (via nice practical demonstrations that they can take part in) that their senses can be easily fooled, is a very valuable lesson. If that goes well you can cover more.

      By all means don't underestimate kids, but overestimating their understanding will be at least as bad. At that age (and with the sort of time frame we're talking about) it is far better to give them questions that they can think about and explore themselves than answers which they may or may not understand.

    5. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by solar_blitz · · Score: 1

      Indeed, a 4-year-old child has very little ability to understand a lot of what this man is asking. As much as I enjoyed listening to what you talked about, I couldn't understand anything beyond "real-motion cues", "flight simulation", and "robot arm", and I'm graduating from college soon with a degree in Computer Science.

      I'd be very conservative about what to expect, too. And if necessary, take an entire hour or so teaching the kids about the basics of the basics with a couple of little science projects, then build up their knowledge. Here is my example.

      Despite the fact that a child doesn't understand the concepts of gravity, mass, or aerodynamics, they most certainly understand this: when they trip they fall down and hurt themselves, no matter how hard they try they can't fit everything they own into a backpack, and they like paper airplanes. Okay, it isn't an example per se, but you have an idea of what I'm trying to convey: they do have some idea - no matter how small - of how the world works. All our knowledge is built upon these fundamental building blocks, even Quantum Mechanics (though I'd like to see someone try and teach that stuff to a kid).

      And if all else fails, tell them you work with robot arms in your lab.

    6. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and I hate to break it to you, but you would appear to be a total and utter bullshit artist.
      Fixed that for you.
    7. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      I guess it's a different experience for everyone, which is why it's worth taking the individual into account. I can't remember a thing before the age of 5, but I know I was already programming by then (to be honest, it's quite creepy that my first memories include already being computer proficient..) I guess this means younger kids can learn, but the skills picked up will become more innate than factually memorable.

    8. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by DudeTheMath · · Score: 1

      An "entire hour or so"? Those kids will be bored silly. Science for four-year-olds can be done, but it's got to be really tiny slices, and it's got to be stuff they can do with their own hands. OP's lab (now I might be wrong) doesn't sound like a place where the kids can mess about themselves. "Uh-oh!" is something you hear a lot from a four-year-old.

      When my daughter was four, we molded Tampa's interbay peninsula out of Play-Doh(R) on a dinner plate, added water, and blew across it "from the Gulf of Mexico" to model storm surge. The keys are (a) have them get "dirty" and (b) ask them "what do you think will happen? Guess!" so they get used to formulating a hypothesis before testing it. They learn something even when they guess wrong.

      --
      You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
    9. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno. My kid isn't even two years yet, and about once a week or so, he'll figure out something that will really surprises us. The sort of thing where he has to put several things together. As for not grasping abstract concepts, he understands "funny" pretty well. He routinely comes up with new ways to make people laugh, and not just trying things to see if they work, but looking at something new, thinking about it for a minute, then doing something legitimately funny.

      But then again, our pediatrician has seen him do things that she said she hasn't seen before about three before, and a friend of mine who is an LCSW has seen him do things that he said kids don't usually pick up until about four. We have to be really careful when we do things with other couples who have kids of a similar age... when they say things like "Wait... did he really just do that?", we just play it down. I don't tell them "Yeah, my kid is about ten times smarter than yours, but the poor kid will probably have just as bad of ADD and OCD as I do, so don't feel like you got short-changed."

    10. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Mordough · · Score: 1

      I don't know what 4-year-olds know about hard science, but many 4 year olds and have the equivalent of a Master's degree in Psychology after studying their parents' responses to various stimuli for four consecutive years. And unlike pure academics, they have a lot of practical experience in their field.

      They will cry, stamp their feet and carry on in an attempt to invoke feelings of embarrassment or guilt to get a plastic toy, ice cream, comic book (sheesh, have you seen the price of comic books these days. I remember when they used to cost... ah never mind) or whatever.

      In a true scientific fashion, they ask themselves questions like "Hmm, what can I do to make mommy even more stressed?", "Gee, this is fun. I wonder how much further I can push her before she cracks?", "Ouch, that hurt. Mommy is not responding well today. Maybe I can get better results from daddy."

      Don't let the little brats fool you.

    11. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a 4-year-old and my daddy works as a nuclear scientist. His work will one day solve the world's energy crisis and give safe and cheap to all the people to the world. He is a really important man.

      Well, that's what he said.

      Actually, he is a paper pushing corporate drone with a self inflated ego, playing office politics to make himself look like he was running the place. He's also having an affair with Lisa, the engineering manager's secretary. I worked that out after 30 seconds when daddy took me there for a visit.

      That's great, because I managed to score myself a 5 bucks allowance increase, if I don't ask "How's Lisa?" every time he gets home, especially, when mum is around.

      Sweet.

    12. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have my own theory about this: we *all* start as scientists, from a very early age. We're born with it.

      Wait, that sounds crazy? Hear me out.

      We start with a very limited understanding of our environment, but if you watch very young children when they are awake, they systematically explore the environment with experiment after experiment, drawing inferences about how the world works, testing out their ideas, sometimes failing in their expectations, and refining them over time. They aren't considering deep conceptual ideas (too young), but by their activities they are learning about the world by trial and error. Most people call this "play", but it is more instructive than it appears.

      Crude as it is, children are using a kind of scientific methodology to explore. Eventually children become familiar enough with adult conventions of speech that they can communicate their questions and conclusions, and as adults start to understand children at this stage, I think it is pretty impressive what children have accomplished from scratch in their first few years without much assistance

      Of course, it can be downhill from there, with many adults filling their heads with superstitous nonsense, and poor education systems drilling out the natural question-test-refine scientific skills and replacing them with "regurgitate what I tell you", but not everyone loses the abilities. Some adults and education systems do try to foster further development of the exploratory skills rather than letting them fade into a sea of pre-decided "facts".

      Anyway, I think the ability of young children to do science is tremendously underestimated. It comes naturally to them, although in their simple terms. The challenge is the communication part. Cast it in simple terms that should be familiar to them, and the science you do should be comprehensible.

      You study how we feel when we are moving, such as that feeling we get when we feel dizzy. Try to demonstrate to them (i.e. by example, with them participating) how this sense works. Sometimes you play with a machine that makes it seem like you are flying a plane (and what kid isn't going to think *that* is cool???). You are trying to understand that feeling of motion when flying a plane, and how it is affected by what we see out the window. This is really important because it helps us fly better and more safely, because you wouldn't want a pilot to get too dizzy, would you?

      As you mention, keep it FUN. Don't worry too much, they won't "ONLY" get fun out of it. As I said, what most people consider "play" is all about learning anyway. Just make sure they do have the opportunities to learn and experience things first-hand for themselves, and spend only a little time talking to them about the ideas.

      If it were me, I'd be tempted to tell them my job was the same as theirs -- I'm trying to understand how the world works, and I have lots of questions I'm trying to answer every day. That's what a scientist does. Then I'd move on to the specific questions I'm studying -- in terms they'd understand. I'd also mention how wonderful it is to work on these puzzles as part of my job!

    13. Re:4-year-olds don't understand by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      I think that's just curiosity, which many animals exhibit too. You need to add a methodical approach for it to truly become science.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  8. Creativity by ushering05401 · · Score: 1

    Focusing on the hypothetical roots of the scientific process may help. Kids know all about imagination, you could help them understand the basics of how their daydreams could change the world using your research as an example of how a dream gets refined into reality.

    It would help if you prepared some funny examples of hair-brained failures that eventually led to workable concepts... something like the (now) comical early attempts at flying vehicles that helped refine the field and lead to the first viable aircraft... but preferably related to your field in some way.

    You can also use this topic to work in some self-confidence themes... pointing out how some of the biggest dreamers were shunned or whatever but ended up making valuable contributions to the world through perseverence and creative integrity (refusing to sell out to be accepted). If you do this, it would also be nice to point out how lame it is to make fun of others for being different. Kids need to hear more of this type message, or so I deduce from my social interactions.

    Not super scientific, but the thought processes are where it all begins. Whatever you do, don't try to do too much. You want to keep the experience light enough that everyone can have fun, while providing just enough 'hook' to start kids with active curiosities down the path the scientific thought. I've been involved in enough educational situations to know that thoughtful yet simple agendas with broad appeal are the most succesful, as they leave the the fewest children left-out.

    Good Luck.

    Regards.

  9. Mod parent up by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

    Coryoth is correct, you don't have a hope in hell of teaching them anything. I've worked with 4-year-olds, and they tend to say things like "You wear a fashion, so you're a jello and I'm going to eat you!" and it makes perfect sense to them. Some can't pull their own pants up. You can have them spin around and get dizzy and say you study that, and that's about all they'll understand. Probably not even that.

    --
    ResidntGeek
  10. Anything Non-Numeric, with Patience by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Interesting
    My daughter will be four in a couple months. She understands quite a bit conceptually - how our bodies work (most organs, muscles, bones, red vs. white blood cells), how the Moon was created, what the atmosphere is like on Venus, why we see the moon in different phases (use balls and flashlights!), why the sky is blue, how trees reproduce, why magnets attract (as much as I do anyway...), why balloons go up, why pancakes rise, and lots more.

    But, she's just learning basic addition and subtraction now, so I'm not even bothering with conceptual models of chemistry, physics, etc. I also don't think she gets how far it is to her grandmother's house, much less what a light-year is.

    These are a few guidelines I find useful:
    • relate everything to something they know, and use every opportunity of something unexplained to learn about science
    • describe the idea science - how we can test whether an apple will always fall downwards, vs. how we can test if Uncle Steve is an angel now (the study of the natural vs. supernatural)
    • start basic and teach in little pieces over time - they all build on each other.
    • If they don't get it you haven't broken it down enough - you may find yourself not fully comprehending a subject when you try to teach it
    • Be patient
    • Don't ever say, "because that's how it is."
    • "I don't know," is a great answer
    • "Let's look it up," is even better.

    Because of the building-blocks nature of science, I'm not sure how much you can teach to an entire group of kids who may be at square-1, but you can start with square 1. Maybe make them aware of their physical presence. Have them notice that they feel something when you flip them over. Play a movie for them with lots of motion while they're standing up and have them notice that they sway side-to-side.

    Perhaps the greatest realization is that those first basic concepts are just as important as understanding the curvature of space in a warped fifth-dimension string theory, because you can't get anywhere without any of the underlying layers. And the sooner you start, while the brain is making connections like mad, the better off they're going to be later in life.

    Oh, and make it fun. Science is a kick.
    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Anything Non-Numeric, with Patience by mattpointblank · · Score: 3, Funny

      She understands quite a bit conceptually - how our bodies work (most organs, muscles, bones, red vs. white blood cells), how the Moon was created, what the atmosphere is like on Venus, why we see the moon in different phases (use balls and flashlights!), why the sky is blue, how trees reproduce, why magnets attract (as much as I do anyway...), why balloons go up, why pancakes rise, and lots more.


      I'm starting to worry here that your daughter understands more than me.
    2. Re:Anything Non-Numeric, with Patience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      My daughter will be four in a couple months. She understands quite a bit conceptually - how our bodies work (most organs, muscles, bones, red vs. white blood cells), how the Moon was created, what the atmosphere is like on Venus, why we see the moon in different phases (use balls and flashlights!), why the sky is blue, how trees reproduce, why magnets attract (as much as I do anyway...), why balloons go up, why pancakes rise, and lots more.

      I hate to burst your bubble, but you're suffering from "my child is the smartest and bestest" syndrome. She does not understand any of those things. Children simply do not have the cognitive skills at that age. What they are exceptionally good at is absorbing information. She's quite skilled at reciting what you've told her, but any "understanding" is superficial at best.

    3. Re:Anything Non-Numeric, with Patience by xiang+shui · · Score: 1

      So? A lot of adults are like that, especially with regard to some of the concepts he's talking about. I'd say his daughter has a pretty good head start - she's gonna have a longer time to let that stuff sink in.

    4. Re:Anything Non-Numeric, with Patience by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      I think you're probably right - but isn't it amazing how good their powers of rote learning are? I once read a bedtime story to a friend's 3 year old, and I made a mistake - she noticed it and corrected me. I know I'd struggle to memorise even a kid's book verbatim.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  11. EDIT: by pizpot · · Score: 0, Troll

    "I have enrolled my child in school as early as possible, robbing him of his blissfull childhood, so that me and my wife can go on with our day jobs. I wonder if it was right to take away something he can never have back? As it stands, he won't remember his play years at all and his earliest memories will be of school. Oh dear... I guess he will want to drop out as soon as possible then, and certainly not get an advanced degree. We were actually thinking that he would get ahead, by starting work earlier and thus be able to afford retirement earlier, but now I realize that I got it all wrong... Kids should get to play because most seniours don't bother."

    1. Re:EDIT: by jZnat · · Score: 1

      People aren't even reading the summary now? Wow...

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  12. be careful by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember reading an article about demographic problems in germany. People have a very small amount of kids, and due to this problem they have unreasonably high expectations about their kids. It is frequent to hire a private teacher to work with the kid, to find many extra exercises for them like swimming, studying foreign languages (even at the age of 3!), etc.

    The problem arising from that is a very high psychological stress the kid must cope with. High expectations from their parents cause headaches and other health problems, especially when a kid fails at some task. Give a kid free time.

    In fact at that age all kid's time must be a free time. Your job is to find a method to put fun into a learning. Small kids decide what they want to do with their free time only directed by their enthusiasm at some activity. When you find yourself trying to convince him to do something you have already failed. You can only show your own enthusiasm, and show how fun it is. It's in fact easy to convince a kid when you are enthusiastic yourself (which is not frequent with teachers who are bored with their job). But when you see that the kid loses an interest you must immediatly stop.

    And expect nothing! If you will expect that the kid will be successfull at anything you will only increase the stress level.

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
    1. Re:be careful by hyfe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      High expectations from their parents cause headaches and other health problems, especially when a kid fails at some task. Give a kid free time.
      I'm Norwegian, and I've travelled a fair bit, and my experience is that 'utterly insane parents with ridicilous expactations' are a largely American phenomena (and interestingly enough, the Swizz too). Here in Norway we do have some failed soccer-players wanting their sons to be the best, but what comes off here as utterly insane seems mainstream over at your side of the pond.

      This is just from what I'm told though, from an extremely random, but way too small sample set of people.

      --
      "" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
    2. Re:be careful by smurfsurf · · Score: 1

      I also do not have the impression this is something even remotely common here in Germany. Maybe he is thinking about Japan.

    3. Re:be careful by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      From what I've heard being a good soccer player has nothing to do with any innate talent and everything to do with having the right birthdate so that you're at the maximum age when you sign up for junior soccer leagues, making it seem like you have more innate talent because you're bigger and stronger.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    4. Re:be careful by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      It is frequent to hire a private teacher to work with the kid, to find many extra exercises for them like swimming, studying foreign languages (even at the age of 3!), etc.
      When do you think is a better time to start?

      In fact at that age all kid's time must be a free time. Your job is to find a method to put fun into a learning.
      This sounds exactly like my memories of kindergarten.
      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    5. Re:be careful by hyfe · · Score: 2, Informative
      Wow. You've heard very, very wrong then. That statement is very wrong on many levels.

      Either way, soccer has very little to do with physical size, and alot to do with technique, balance and how well you read/understand the play. As far as depth goes, it's the most complicated sport I've ever played (complicated as in doing it, not complicated as in the manager does decisions, or you have to remember xxx formations).

      --
      "" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
    6. Re:be careful by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Something like 70% of English born "soccer" aka football players in the English Premier League where born between September and December. That is *WAY* out from what you might expect if your age when you sign up to a junior team had no bearing on how successful you might be. The start date for the school year in England is September, making a September born child the oldest in the class and statistically bigger and stronger.

      While conceptually you are correct, reality gets in the way. So for example being able to run faster on account of being older puts you in a better position when playing football. You therefore appear better despite having a lack of skill over your younger classmates. You end up in the school football team and they don't, consequently they tend to drop football.

      If you look at the hand size of goal keepers in the Premiership it is substantially above average. Please explain that one if it is all about skill?

    7. Re:be careful by hyfe · · Score: 1

      Something like 70% of English born "soccer" aka football players in the English Premier League where born between September and December.
      Well, I'm just plainly not going to believe that untill I see a source.. and even if it is correct, I'd still be vary of drawing conclusions from it, English football is rather savage compared to just about everybody else.

      Either way, schools don't have football teams.

      If you look at the hand size of goal keepers in the Premiership it is substantially above average. Please explain that one if it is all about skill?
      I said playing football was mostly about skill. Goalies don't play football.
      --
      "" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
    8. Re:be careful by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've spent a year in Finland, and, as an American, I have to agree with you. Although the 'competitive kid' culture varies by region, it is an American phenomenon. I think it also has to do with our competitive corporate culture ( I've heard that Europeans companies think that American companies are dysfunctional workplaces ) and our 15 minutes of fame syndrome. There seems to be a culture of mental illness in our country, and our institutions are generated by it and also feed back into it.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    9. Re:be careful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > unreasonably high expectations about their kids. It is frequent to hire a private teacher to work with the kid, to find many extra exercises for them like swimming, studying foreign languages (even at the age of 3!), etc.

      Is it _their_ kid then, if hiring a private teacher is required? There is indeed a common (and, in some countries, government-supported) misconception that those inflated requirements are a must for all childern - but how many parents actually have the above-mentioned skills?

      OTOH, when properly taught, children learn very well and enjoy the process.

    10. Re:be careful by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      I don't live in Germany, but my son speaks a little German, and can swim, and he's not quite 3. He learned to swim out of fun mostly - he loves water so we spend a lot of time in the pool. I speak a little German round the place (oddly enough, not the rude words either) and he's picked up a few phrases and understands them.

      Oddly enough he is very good at giving the impression of understanding without actually understanding at all.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    11. Re:be careful by zobier · · Score: 1

      I remember reading that children perform better when you expect more of them. I'm not saying that being a push, over-expectant parent is a good thing but neither is the current dumbing down of our education system.

      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
    12. Re:be careful by bungo · · Score: 1

      problem they have unreasonably high expectations about their kids. It is frequent to hire a private teacher to work with the kid, to find many extra exercises for them like swimming, studying foreign languages (even at the age of 3!), etc.

      My son is 3 1/2, he is fluent in French, English and understands some Dutch. He has gone swimming once a
      week for the last 2 years and loves it - he make us take him extra times on the weekend or Friday
      night as well.

      We don't take up much of his free time at all. We have no special expectations. He is never
      forced to do anything 5except brush his teeth).

      I can't see what gives you the right to pass judgment on other people. Unless to know
      specifically what goes on, you're just making it up. At best, you know a few parents well
      enough tosay that they are stressing their children, unless you have a Phd and studied
      thousands of children.

      My guess is that at teh age of 4, the children are yet to exeprience any stress. If they
      don't want to do something, they won't do it. Only when they are older and they can be
      forced to do things against their will they will experience achievement related stress.

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
    13. Re:be careful by The+Benefactor · · Score: 1

      Schools do have teams. If goalies aren't playing football what the hell are they doing on the pitch interfering with play then?

      --
      To err is human, to arr is pirate.
    14. Re:be careful by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      I think it's a variation on the drummers/musicians jokes.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  13. If I recall correctly... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...a 3-6 year old child is still learning how to read and write (and everything else) at a very basic level.

    I wouldn't expect them to learn much from a field trip. The best you can hope for is that some of them will say "wow, this stuff is cool" and might pursue it later in life.

    IMO, hype up all the cool 'fun' stuff now, because that will stick in their minds. Then, in a few years, try to have another field trip when they'll be able to understand more about what they're seeing.

    If you really want to figure out an educational plan, take the teacher(s) on a tour first & ask them to help you relate it to the kids.

    P.S. The comprehension abilities between a 3 yr old and a 6 yr old are wildly different.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  14. That Depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The short answer is that what a 4-year old is capable of understanding depends on what the 3-year old was taught. Yes, it's very disturbing that the average high school student in the US cannot understand much science, but that's not for a lack of intelligence but a lack of teaching (by parents and schools). As mentioned in another note, start with concrete examples that are familiar to the child or children and lead up to the more complex issues, still maintaining examples they're familiar with.

  15. I'm guessing not much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to developmental psychologists (starting with Piaget [1]) they don't get a whole load of essential stuff like conservation of volume, trains of events logical connection etc. There's no way that they get statistics, etc. All you could hope would be that they'd have fun exploring the world in a way which facilitates the development of those genetically programmed abilities, so possibly something like a Montessori (AMI, not Froebel or any of that non-tested, hippy touchy-feely stuff) environment would be a good start [2].

    I suppose to some extent it depends on what you see science as, but to me it's to do with observation (including recording of observations), and hypothesis forming. According to the above that's going on at a very alarming rate in young brains and absolutely massive conceptual leaps are made. If you can keep that sense of fun and excitement going then likely you get an adult scientist.

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget

    [2] http://www.montessori-ami.org/

    1. Re:I'm guessing not much by crush · · Score: 1

      I forgot to add, that Montessori doesn't necessarily focus on science per se, it just tries to provide equipment that is to some extent designed and tested with the idea of making it easy for the child to develop the innate abilities that they're exploring at whatever developmental stage they're at. It's great. Having seen it in action for a few years I'd really recommend it. I do repeat my caution about Froebel and "London Montessori" as being of an inferior type compared to AMI Montessori though.

    2. Re:I'm guessing not much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You forgot to check AC, too. =)

    3. Re:I'm guessing not much by crush · · Score: 1

      No, I forgot to log in the first time ;)

  16. First, lose all the jargon by Requiem+Aristos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Realize that terms like "vestibulo-ocular reflex" exist only to permit one person in the field to concisely convey mutually understood concepts to another person in the same field. Using specialized terms will save you perhaps a dozen words at the expense of being understood.

    For a small child, they'll be able to understand that they know when they are moving, and in what direction, and they might even be able to tell you how they [think] they know that. If you have models of the canals in the inner ear, (I'm imagining tubes filled with coloured dye) you can provide an excellent demonstration that they should easily understand.

    (BTW, I agree with Janek Kozicki's comment on high expections. While I was able to understand fairly advanced concepts at a young age, it wasn't because I was under pressure. My environment simply encouraged it; one family friend was a physics professor, another let me help out at the local natural history museum, etc.)

    1. Re:First, lose all the jargon by TimToady · · Score: 4, Insightful
      A good exercise would be to translate what you want to say into words of one syllable. "How do you know where you are?" and so on...

      And if you can't translate it into words of one syllable, you probably don't really understand it yourself. :-)

    2. Re:First, lose all the jargon by raddan · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, kids are very good at "fast mapping", because nearly every conversation they have involves vocabulary that is new to them. That's not to say that a kid would understand, say, genetic inheritance, if you were to use the field's own terminology exclusively. But kids are very good at learning new vocabularly fast, so give them some pieces that they can chew on. They'll probably ask you what those words mean, on their own, and then you can give them some more.

      Vygotsky and others have this idea of a "zone of proximal development". The idea is basically, put a kid in slightly over their head, but give them enough guidance that they can elevate themselves to the next level. Kids whose education routinely challenges them in this way learn faster than kids who are completely over their heads, or who have no guidance from adults or their peers. It also helps explain why kids who are never challenged to think on their own never do end up learning how to think on their own.

    3. Re:First, lose all the jargon by asninn · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, this is German we're talking about. "Monosyllabic German" is a contradiction in terms. :)

      --
      butter the donkey
    4. Re:First, lose all the jargon by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      "I make models on the compu--"
      "I make pict--"
      "I draw on the Compu--"
      "I make stuff for the screen in your room which is bright and shows films which you watch. I put the stuff in the frame on top of each other with math. I make the fake stuff look real and not stand out from the rest of the real stuff in the frame." *Blank stare*
      "I make cool spaceship battles like in star wars." *whheeeeee!*

      Let's not forget "Gameboy" is two syllables. Computer is three syllables. Mac is one. Which is a 5 year old more likely to understand? Hell even the number "Seven" is more than one syllable.

  17. A couple of examples by real+gumby · · Score: 1

    Carl Fenman's dad won the nobel prize while Carl was still a little boy. He told me once that when he was little, when his friends said that their father's had "gone to work" he thought they meant their fathers did what his dad would do: make a cup of tea, sit down in the kitchen, and think.

    On the other hand, in some ways you have it easy: I have tried to explain to my kid that his dad is a Geschaeftsfuehrer...he cannot understand. Finally I gave up and told him I dig up the road and he seemed to find that more satisfying.

  18. It depends on the science subject. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1
    Many 4-year olds can actually grasp a lot. In that age they can understand more than you think and they absorb knowledge as a sponge, even if it's unwanted knowledge or not.

    Of course - they are better off learning concrete science than they are of abstract concepts, since abstract concepts almost always requires good understanding of the written word and mathematics.

    Any 4-year old should be able to grasp the use of a hammer and a crowbar, even if that may cause some interesting (or annoying) results.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  19. How much did you grasp at that age? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

    Extrapolate from there.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    1. Re:How much did you grasp at that age? by n0dna · · Score: 1

      I think I speak for everyone here when I say:

      "HTF would I know that? I was 4!" :)

    2. Re:How much did you grasp at that age? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When we were your age, we were 4 years older!

  20. It's all about fun by raddan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was fortunate enough to grow up with a father who worked in a very cool lab. My first memories, before anything else, are of being in the lab with my father, who was working on his Ph.D. thesis in Physics, and other grad students, post docs, professors, and machinists. I was exposed to lasers, metalworking machinery, liquid nitrogen (and, unfortunately, liquid nitrogen burns), specialized scientific instruments like the lab's interferometer (yes, they let me crawl around inside), and most importantly, computers. I was given ample time to play with the lab's PDP-11. I made large ASCII-art banners that I printed out on one of the DECWriters (BTW, a kid setting a machine like a daisy wheel printer in motion is sheer joy).

    I knew from an early age that I would not be happy doing anything else but using my brain for a living. Despite a momentary lapse in sanity and earning a Bachelor's in Philosophy, I am now working full time as a network engineer while I spend my nights working toward a Computer Science degree. People don't know where I get the energy to spend my evenings after a long day at work doing mathematics and programming, but I say this-- if you had had the opportunity to look through a periscope that your own father had built, or help your father set up a helium-neon laser in front of the rest of the Cub Scout troop, or any of the other countless cool things I was able to do because of science-- you'd have no end of enthusiasm for the pursuit of knowledge either.

    Just take your kids to work. Build rockets. Build anything with them, really. Anything but science or engineering simply will not be an option for their fervid minds.

  21. Kids are honest by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    A grownup would never tell you to your face that he doesn't understand why you got that wonderful office just to sit around and chat with other managers and that this is actually supposedly work. :)

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  22. your job description in 4-year-old's terms by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A scientist is someone who tries to learn things that nobody else knows yet. He tries things to see if they do what he thinks they'll do, and if they don't, he figures out why.

    As for your job in particular, it sounds like you figure out how people can tell whether they're upside down, and whether you can trick them into thinking they are. Tell the kids you tried putting upside-down photos in front of people and that didn't fool them, so you're trying to figure out what would do it. See what they say about that. (Hint: every suggestion they give, no matter how ineffective you know it'll be... will be brilliant. Because as far as they know, no one's ever tried it, and they came up with it out of nothing but their own imagination.)

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:your job description in 4-year-old's terms by EMH_Mark3 · · Score: 1
      --
      Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
  23. Some good ideas so far by Alien54 · · Score: 1

    Let's try expanding on this by explaining

    1) that a scientist is a person who tries to figure things out. They are into figuring out problems.
    2) There are different kids of scientists.
    3) These Scientists are interested in different kinds of things
    4) Your interest is in how and why people feel things, such as hot cold dizzy, etc. You can use the ten dollar words, just explain them really clearly.
    5) Show and Explain a cool but simple magic trick showing on how you trick people. Explain the trick so that they can do it.
    6) Then you can get into movie tricks and special effects.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  24. Things 4 year-old boys can understand by melonman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1: Explosions

    2: Loud explosions

    3: Loud explosions that make bright flashes

    4: Loud explosions that make bright flashes and make their sister scream

    5: Hot Wheels

    6: Very loud explosions

    It's all about motivation. Sell your kids on the possibility of making stuff happen, and when they grow up they'll do whatever it takes to understand how to make stuff happen. The trouble with most science teaching is that it's just too abstract. 4 year-olds are not good at abstract, and, actually, much the same is true of the rest of us.

    --
    Virtually serving coffee
  25. Cut out the abstract, put in the concrete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Lemme tell you first of all that I had to look up a good deal of the stuff you said just to have a foggy idea what you might be doing. I dare say that a 4 year old's eyes would glaze over if you started something like this and he would at best interrupt you with a "what does this button do?".

    Forget anything abstract. Forget presentations, sheets of paper, drawings, schematics, and especially forget any kind of writing or numbers. Kids of that age are very tactile, give them something to touch and to "play" with. Show them big machines that make lots of noise and that produce something they can touch. Kids of that age are fascinated by action and reaction chains, if at all possible, let them hit the starter button to get something into work, and hand them what was produced by their actions.

    If you're in research, give them a chance to participate in an experiment. It needn't be something groundshaking, actually it needn't even produce anything you'd consider informative. It only has to be entertaining so you get their attention, and it has to show them that your work is fun.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  26. Spelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spell 'Year'.

  27. I did, in my own primitive way by Tatisimo · · Score: 1
    I learned to read at an early age (3 or 4 years, can't remember), and spent a big time reading encyclopedias of animals, microbial life forms, and weird things. I had an understanding that there were all those things, but didn't "understand" most of it. It was more of a way to pass time. Still, it was interesting because they did all sorts of weird things and had interesting lives that kept me entertained.

    Now that I'm all grown up, I see parents cramming their children with Winnie the Pooh, pokemon, and such, and I notice those kids understand those cartoon characters in the same way I understood the animals from my encyclopedias. When talking to those kids about those "childish" things, they talk in the same way I spoke about animals. There's a stereotype that kids must like "childish" stuff and cartoons so much, that parents end up cramming them with that kinda junk. Give a kid freedom, and he will most the time choose "the box instead of the toy". The problem is not "will they understand", but rather, what will they choose to understand, and what kind of stuff will parents choose to censor, push or encourage.

    --
    Give Kashyyyk back to the Wookies
  28. what is it you do anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    From what I understand is you are a scientist that works on how stuff moves. movement of things.

  29. Fun is good, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I think it is admirable that you want to teach as well as entertain, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself if you only manage to entertain.

    Science is often deemed to be boring by non-scientists; you have an opportunity not only to show kids around your lab (which other kids' parents can do that!?), but to show that science is a fun job. If you send a class of kids home saying "When I grow up I want to be a scientist!" rather than "Science is boring" or "I want to be a train driver", you will have achieved a great deal.

    Also remember: children learn best when they are having fun. It might be too much to expect to teach them real science, but they will learn more than you might imagine simply by seeing things they (and their parents) never have before, and will remember if these things were fun.

    If you want to teach anything about science, try and give them an understanding of the scientific method: I notice something interesting; I form a hypothesis; I collect data to test the hypothesis; I interpret that data; I accept or refine my hypothesis. Of course, you'd have to place all of this within a child's existing frame of reference.

    Good luck!

  30. imho, by Ivan+Matveich · · Score: 1

    The most accessible introduction to science is Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.

  31. Don't forget the Left Brain by mosel-saar-ruwer · · Score: 0


    "Science" [to the extent that it hasn't already devolved into Yet Another Pagan Religion], is just another tiny sub-specialty within the broader discipline of Applied Mathematics.

    And let's face it, unless the kid is one of these Korean super-geniuses, with an IQ of 300, who taught himself multi-variable calculus in his spare when he wasn't suckling on his mama's teat, then he [or she] just isn't going to know enough mathematics to tackle anything of any true "scientific" interest until his mid- to- late teens [and that's assuming home schooling; add another five years or more if he's in the publik skewlz].

    At the age of four, I'd be concentrating on simple math games [lots and lots of counting], and maybe some pre-geometry, like playing with blocks, and legos, and Transformers, and, of course, drawing [you can never have enough blank drawing paper], but, much, much, much more important than that, at such a ripe young age, would be language skills.

    Lots and lots and lots of ABC's, and basic spelling, and phonics out the wazoo, and handwriting, and sing-song games.

    Actually, singing is very interesting in that it combines both Left Brain-ish stuff [song lyrics] with Right Brain-ish stuff [musical melodies & harmonies].

    In other words: This is a little child we're talking about. Have fun. Make learning fun.

    Life's too short to be miserable all the damned time.

    1. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You didn't even read the question. He asked how to explain his job to his kid. Not how to raise a child.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    2. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by cretog8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gah! Ugh!

      Applied math is great, but saying science is a sub-specialty of applied math is like saying music is a subfield of math, painting is a subfield of chemistry, or writing is a subfield of computer science because everyone uses word processors nowadays.

      Science is an approach to finding out about the world. Math helps with that tremendously, but lots of scientists have done great work which didn't involve significant math--Galileo and Darwin among them.

      As to the original question--practice explaining what you do. I bet most Slashdotters don't understand what you mean (is your research in psychology? optics? AI? material science? it's pretty obfuscated), never mind a random high school student, and to a kindergartener you'd be better off saying "I do cool things with computers!" with a big smile on your face. I teach my 3-year-old son about what I do (economics & game theory), and sure, he doesn't get much of it, but he's picking things up (he's learning to not always play Rock in Rock-Paper-Scissors, for instance). Most areas of study have some intuitive story which captures their spirit, you need to find that for your field.

      As to how to have the kids learn--if a 3-to-6-year-old is in a new environment and also having fun, they're learning. Probably the best way to help them learn is to figure out what they can screw around with without destroying your work.

    3. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      he [or she] just isn't going to know enough mathematics to tackle anything of any true "scientific" interest until his mid- to- late teens
      You don't need calculus to understand the periodic table, Ohm's law, evolution, rock formations, diffusion...
      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    4. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      You don't need calculus to understand the periodic table, Ohm's law, evolution, rock formations, diffusion...

      Fick's first law is about as simple as diffusion gets, and it requires an understanding of derivatives (which I would clasify as simple calculus).

    5. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      No, "stuff spreads out" is about as simple as diffusion gets. While mathematics is useful at a higher stage to calculate the rate etc, it isn't necessary to be aware of the phenomenon at a basic level.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    6. Re:Don't forget the Left Brain by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      There is a huge difference between being aware of something at a basic level, and understanding something at a basic level. The GGP said that calculus wasn't needed to understand diffusion, I still think it would be hard if not impossible to really understand diffusion without understanding some basic calculus.

  32. Display, Involve, then Explain by AtomicSnarl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I study self-motion perception, from basic-science vestibular processing to the role of real-motion cues in flight simulation."

    Hi kids! I'm a scientist, and I get to help figure out why people don't just fall over. Everybody stand up. Now, stand on one foot! Good -- Your muscles help keep you up, but why don't you fall? That's part of what I work on. OK, sit down, and I need a volunteer...

    I study self-motion perception, from basic-science vestibular processing to the role of real-motion cues in flight simulation.

    Ok volunteer -- have you ever caught a ball? Well, step back a little bit, and try this (tosses brightly colored sponge). You caught it! Toss it back, go a little further, and I'll try again. (Tosses sponge again) Great! Now -- just how did you know to do that? One time you were close, then you were far away! What happened to make it work? That is part of what I study too!

    Who wants to pretend they're a tree? Stand up and hold out your arm! Wave arm with flappy winged bird doll. (Talk about flying birds coming in for a landing and not hitting the branch, or smacking into the tree.) Airplane pilots have to land their planes too, and not hit the ground too hard. I help figure out better ways to make that happen.

    Visual stimulation and silly setups lead into simple explanations that kids can understand because they were entertained and their curiosity aroused. If they're giggling, they're able to learn becaue they're paying attention!

    --
    Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
    1. Re:Display, Involve, then Explain by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      Excellent post - are you a teacher in real life? You seem to have a talent for it.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  33. What definitely works by mrjb · · Score: 1

    My father was a chemist. He'd show all kinds of cool tricks: for example, he would let ground pepper float on water, then dip a matchstick treated with soap in it-- the pepper would run to the sides of the glass. This taught us something about surface tension. Likewise would the trick of sliding coins into a full glass of water until the water would rise above the level of the glass.

    When we had red cabbage for dinner, he always asked my mom to save some of the boiling water- then would show how vinegar would turn it red, while dishwashing powder would turn it blue. At the time I may not have understood that the cabbage water was a acidity indicator, but it was cool to watch. Like was the time that he dropped a chunk of sodium in water.

    You may not be able to pass all concepts and knowledge about science to your son yet. But you'll be able to trigger his interest with little science-based tricks such as the above. Find a book that lists a bunch, it can be great fun.

    --
    Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
    1. Re:What definitely works by SavvyPlayer · · Score: 1

      As the father of an inquisitive (in the scientific sense, not the 14th c. Catholic sense) 4.5 yr-old, I appreciate your post. But must argue that your last paragraph unfairly presents science as a mode of thinking in which people rightly allocate a brief period of attention, as though that choice were normal and correct. Why should the inquisitive, scientific mode of thought not be the predominant, normal one? Science is a tool we use to learn about the universe we live in -- this is a Good Thing (TM), right?

  34. Early Childhood Development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do yourself a favor and spend a little time learning about early childhood development. From birth to 6 years there are stages that most children pass through. A two year old will spend a lot of time just filling a pail and dumping it. Someone a little older may make a cake and pretend to eat it. A little older still, and the child will act out a story with another child.

    A three year old child is working on different stuff than a 5 year old. They will have different experiences and need different interaction. If you want to bring kids into the lab, you might start by going to their school and seeing what they do in terms of block play and dramatic play. Then find some children's books about scientists (!). Pictures are good.

    Going to the lab will work better if the kids have a context for experiencing it. They know what a doctor is, they've gone to the doctor, they've play-acted the doctor. How do you give them that concrete experience of science or technology? I remember doing kitchen-chemistry experiments with my dad when I was perhaps a little older than the children you are dealing with.

  35. I have an idea by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

    Show him Terminator 2, and during the scene where Miles Dyson blows up the Cyberdyne building killing himself to stop his robotic creations from taking over the world, tell your kid that you and Miles Dyson have the same job.

    I'm just not very good with kids I guess.

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    1. Re:I have an idea by the.Ceph · · Score: 1

      I am very interested in your parenting ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

  36. One Word "Elmo" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4 Yr old?

    Involve Elmo in some way, you'll get their attention immediately.

    (Kevin Clash is going to take over the world one day, you just wait and see)

  37. Math by huckamania · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some 4yos can understand and apply math. I have a nephew who is about 7 and doing algebra on his own. Who knows, he may be doing calculus and dumbing it down for the adults.

    I would bet that most 4yos understand the scientific method, even if they couldn't explain it. My daughter is 2 years 7 months and I can see the wheels turning in her mind. She has delaying her bed time down to a science. She has learned thru trial and error that being fussy at night results in her being put in bed. So she is extra cute and eager to play new games and show how smart she is. She has also learned thru trial and error that any loud noise from her room will bring one of her parents. The most important thing she has learned is that when Daddy puts her in bed, that's it, she's done for the night and any loud noises will not be rewarded by more time running about.

    My wife, unfortunately, is insane, because, as we all know insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's what I get for having a trophy wife.

    1. Re:Math by huckamania · · Score: 1

      In defense of my wife, I should cop to the fact that all software engineers are at least partially insane. Tell any software engineer that there is a bug in their code and they will tell you to try it again followed by reboot and try it again.

    2. Re:Math by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm sure your daughter is both smart and adorable, and will grow up to be a great {climatologist/homemaker/supermodel/general}. But I wouldn't assume that all of the behavior you describes reflects conscious analytical thinking. At least some of it can be explained by simple conditioning, and many of the more intelligent non-human mammals - e.g. my family's dog - exhibit similarly complex patterns.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha.. my wife does the same thing. Too bad she's not a trophy.

    4. Re:Math by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but sometimes it works. Therefore no insanity.

  38. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3.5 year olds should ONLY have fun, what the fuck are you trying to stress them. It's their childhood they should enjoy it.

    Also tell him you are a scientist and what you mess around with for now, don't force the whole world in his head in one day geez

    PS: I have no children and am a virgin at 25, goodbye.

  39. Dear Little Hans by hey! · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your father's job is proving what other people think is wrong.

    It is a hard job and very few people can do it. Fortunately, those can do it probably could do few other jobs.

    Sinerely

    Slashdot Reader

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  40. Lots of things by rlp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) If there's a local 'hands on' science museum - with demos, buttons to push etc., kids love that. A four year old may not understand everything, but will still learn a lot.
    2) Hiking - you can talk about biology, geological processes, etc.
    3) Visit the local zoo - discuss different animal species.
    4) A trip to the local airport, or (better yet) - an air and space museum.
    5) Legos and other 'construction' toys.
    6) Toy plastic dinosaurs and (if available) a visit to a natural history museum.
    7) Read bed time stories about science and exploration.
    8) Computer games and simulatation.
    9) Visit a planetarium or an observatory that has an open house.
    10) Enroll the kid in martial arts, so later when other kids call them a nerd, they can kick their ass. :-)

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  41. 4 years old.... by partowel · · Score: 0

    1. Get cyber brain implant.

    2. Upgrade your kids brain.

    3. Let the kid be a kid if 1 and 2 are not options in your civilization.l

    4. Go back in time and implant scientific data into his brain.

    5. Install genetic memories into his dna and make him again.

    6. Pretend your son is 18 years old and has a brain that is "mature".

    7. lol....4 years old.

    8. ha ha ha ha ha

  42. Don't forget the teachers! by HullBreachOnline.com · · Score: 1

    That can be applied to most teachers of science as well. If it wasn't for the teachers' manuals, they would be lost.

  43. Summary by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think it should be easy to get kids to understand that a scientist's job is to find out about how the world works. Beyond that, the best advice you have received here is to 1) Show them in concrete terms what it is you investigate; 2) Avoid jargon, don't try to teach vocabulary, and express ideas in elementary terms; 3) Make it fun so as to engage them.

    --
    And the brethren went away edified.
  44. the process, not the details by dltaylor · · Score: 1

    It is not the details of what you do that is important for them to know, but the (idealized, admittedly) process that you use.

    Children accumulate fantastic amounts of data (behavior/socialization even more than "education"). Science offers them another way to test the data for integration into their lives. Teach them the processes of hypothesis and experiment, learning from (positively and negatively) existing publication, and open, rigorous discussion, and the value of free thought that expands the boundaries of inquiry.

    Big words for a 4 year old, but they are already doing some of it informally, even unconsciously. "My father says ..." is an example of authoritative citation, after all. Explain to them that there is a usable system for doing it "on purpose".

    Your occupation is to use those principles to explore some subset of the universal information space and acquire it for humans.

  45. Kids are BORN scientists.... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Curious about everything around them, and how everything works.

    Until they hit 5 or 6, at which time pop culture, peer pressure, and the public school system start working together to stomp the spark of interest wight out of most of them....

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:Kids are BORN scientists.... by kestasjk · · Score: 4, Funny

      That must be why kids never sit down to watch TV until you explain exactly how TVs work, and why they treat santa claus, the easter bunny and monsters under the bed with such skepticism.

      The other day I did the pull-off-my-thumb magic trick to a cute four year old girl, she coldly said "what the hell kind of idiot do you take me for? I've got a trick for ya:" And then she flipped me off and walked away! These toddlers have such an incisive sense of skeptical intuition.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
  46. Hey, let him have a normal life... by ponos · · Score: 2, Informative

    You should only try to satisfy his natural curiosity, to the extent that he is actually interested. I don't think you should force advanced knowledge on a child of his age. Even if he manages to learn he will only have developed "rote" learning and (quite propably) a strong dislike for science, due to the pressure involved. Let him be what he wants to be and gently encourage him.

  47. scientists answer questions by wikinerd · · Score: 1

    Children always ask questions. The job of a scientist is to answer questions to satisfy our curiosity. However, scientists like to answer questions in a specific way: By doing (experimenting). Philosophers also answer questions, but they do so by thinking, not by doing. Religious prophets answer questions as well, but only by using their imagination. You can explain your job AND the scientific method in this way. Ask your child what makes a piece of iron different from a cup of tea. Bring in some LEGO bricks and explain that everything we touch is made of tiny LEGOs. The way these tiny LEGOs are sticked together, and the colour of them, determines whether a set of LEGOs is iron or tea, just like your child can build a house or a car using the same LEGOs.

    1. Re:scientists answer questions by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      I never knew "Lego" was an acronym. What does it stand for?

      Oh, and it has no plural form either.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  48. Re:Hell ... self-motion perception by pbhj · · Score: 2, Informative

    He studies

    >>> "... self-motion perception, from basic-science vestibular processing to the role of real-motion cues in flight simulation".

    So basically he tries to work out "am I moving, am I dizzy, can I see".

    I figure he's a professional drunk.

    >>> "We can easily compete with amusement parks"

    The queue for the water cooler must be horrendous.

  49. What Can 4-yr-olds Understand About Science? by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least as much as a 60 year old.

    --
    What?
  50. One thing is by JohnnyGTO · · Score: 1

    don't let them near the Big Red Button .

    --
    Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
  51. "I learn, then I teach." by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Science is learning. It's that simple. Tell him that you spend your time learning about one specific subject; that you are trying to learn things that nobody else knows. That once YOU learn them, you help share that newfound knowledge with the world.

    That's what science is.

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  52. Pique their interest by davidwr · · Score: 1

    4 year olds know concrete things. Use that to pique their interest.

    Talk to the teachers at the school. Find out what is best for you to show the students this year AND what is best to show them in return trips in the years to come.

    Be prepared to answer a lot of questions on a 4-year-old level and have 5-year-old-level answers in the back of your mind in case some of the 4-year-olds are precocious.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  53. Precociousness by danlock4 · · Score: 1

    Some children are very precocious. Others take longer to gain their mental abilities... or never gain them. Yet others can understand more than they can effectively communicate, or can give the impression that they can understand more than they really do. Verstehen Sie? :-)

    --
    To .sig or not to .sig, that is the question.
  54. I dealt with this situation last week. by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Last week I was walking my 3 youngest children (ages 8, 6 and 4) to school, when the eldest of them ( my daughter) said "Dad, Elisha's Dad is a policeman!"

    The 6 year old then said "But our Dad's a scientist". The youngest then said "So you mix things together to make explosions then Dad?"

    I said "Some Scientists do that, but I don't. But all scientists ask questions, measure or count things, and then write about it".

    "Oh" he said. "so what do you do then?"

    "It's like this - see how the road is a bit slippery?" - it had just rained that morning. "I start by having an idea that might explain why the road is slippery. Maybe there's lots of tiny little slimy fish on a wet road, and that makes it slippery". He had been amazed by how slippery fish are just the week before.

    "That's silly Dad!" he retorted.

    "Well, let's see if we can find a way to check if that's why the road is slippery. What do cats do when there's a fish lying on the ground?"

    "They lick it" He said. suddenly looking very serious.

    "Is our cat licking the fish on the road? What about the cats that live in both houses next to ours?"

    He looked about. "No, I don't see any cats"

    "So if we counted the number of cats licking little tiny fish so small we can't see them we'd get the number zero."

    "Yes" he said.

    "And we all agree that if there were tiny slimy fish lying on the road making it slippery there would be at least one of the 3 cats licking them?"

    "Yes" he said.

    "So is it likely there are tiny slimy fish on the road making it slippery?"

    "No, there are no cats there".

    "So we decide that the fish idea isn't right. A scientist will then get another idea about why the road is slippery, and he thinks up a way to measure or count something to see if it's a good idea. We keep on going until we get an idea that we can't prove is wrong. That's what all scientists do, no matter what sort of science they study"

    He now has a fair understanding of the scientific method, and he knows that we have to measure (or count) things.

    1. Re:I dealt with this situation last week. by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      He now has a fair understanding of the scientific method, and he knows that we have to measure (or count) things.
      But most importantly, that it involves getting cats to lick things!
      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    2. Re:I dealt with this situation last week. by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      Now explain to me how pigs' bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  55. Sod the kids by Stu101 · · Score: 1

    Can I come and play with it, sounds super sexy geeky!

    --
    http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
  56. one idea that worked on US kindergartners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i work in a systems neuro lab. my prof went in last year to his son's kindergarten class to talk about his work. One thing that he did that apparently was effective was to set up a little feedforward perceptron-like network with the kids as the neurons. i think the input "tickled" particular kids in the first row - who were given rules about whom to tickle in the second row if they were tickled themselves. This propogated through a few rows until a final row where the output was determined. if everyone followed their rule, they got a particular result. Too bad i don't remember what the input and output were...

  57. It sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like you are addressing exactly the same skills and problems as a typical 4-year-old just from a very different perspective. The best thing that you can do for them is try to keep it ALL fun and when someone asks why something works that way, spend some time and give an answer that a 4-year-old will understand. That day you can expect to learn a lot more from the kids than they will from you.

  58. What Can 4 year olds learn by proctor · · Score: 1

    Speaking with the experience of my daughter (now 3 months from 5yrs old) and her friends, the ability to do more than just pretend to understand abstract thoughts seems to have hit right around the time that they began to try out more advanced lies. For example: "Mommy (who already left) promised I could do something (that mommy would clearly not promise)" The concepts just need to be framed in terms they want to understand. For my daughter the threshold was around 4.5 yrs. Most recent example, light. I gave her a flashlight a while back, she had a good time playing with focusing the beam and moving it around. Later I moved onto the Sun being the source of light like the flashlight. Last week her teacher sent her home with the question: "why is the sky blue?". One trip to the Discovery store for a prism later and I showed her all the colors in sunlight. I then told her that air reflected one of them to her to get that blue color (she gets reflection...loves mirrors). She chimed in, 'So grass reflects green?'. Much warm fuzzies for her geek dad. Small negative aspect: On getting home she promptly compared to her flashlight's light through the prism resulting in an immediate request for a better flashlight that is like the sun. Followup I've asked her to give her teacher the question: "why does air reflect blue?" Wish I could be there to videotape her teachers look.

    Treat your work visit as the point to lay the foundation for good questions by the children later on. If possible send them home with a small fun toy that demonstrates parts of the concepts you're trying to show them. That way they can mentally creep up the concepts when the play with the toys...and telling the doubters raising objections to your planned trip to google on 'Montessori' (and get out of your way).

  59. Give them questions by jlehtira · · Score: 1

    it is far better to give them questions that they can think about and explore themselves than answers which they may or may not understand.

    I think that an answer you don't understand IS a question in itself.

    There's something I don't understand but I want to test the idea. After growing older I'm getting lazy and only testing the ideas that I know are probably worth it (ideas from science, not from religion etc).

    There's nothing like being told about general relativity at an early age, and spending the next 15 years trying to decide if you're convinced or not. Remarkable as it seemed at first, I think I finally grasped it now and it actually feels more logical than any other option =).

    Things kids don't understand is something they'll remember and "work on", given sufficient self-confidence. It's great to have many wonders you don't understand! That said, don't expect understanding in significantly less than 15 years..

  60. And that is why pub-ed has degenerated by marcus · · Score: 1

    Straight from the horse's mouth:

    >> I have no idea what goes on in high schools today.

    You should be ashamed.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
    1. Re:And that is why pub-ed has degenerated by idontgno · · Score: 1

      You should be ashamed.

      Why?

      Really. Was that a measured, reasoned, rational response, or just some kneejerk crap?

      If GFP has no children and will never have children, why would the state of high schools mean jack crap to him? Maybe they're solely burdens on his tax-paying butt, in which case their mere existence is more than he needs to know about them.

      If it's of no personal consequence, shame is not indicated. Altruism isn't altruistic unless it's truly voluntary.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  61. Will be glad if four years olds know ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    ... that you must work to earn a living.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  62. What I say about "take your children to work day" by jayayeem · · Score: 1

    Daddy is a secret agent, so it is too dangerous for you to come to work with me. You can also use related stories to explain some of that 'Overtime' to the wife.

    --
    I metamoderate, therefore I am
  63. Re: how to explain my job to kids... PMK by wrbird · · Score: 1

    "Popular Mechanics for Kids" (a series of TV shows that are also on DVDs) explains many concepts to kids in a fun and appropriate way for kids. They have an episode on "Air Transport", "Spaceships", "Robots", "Aircraft Carriers", and a lot more. You might get some good ideas on how to explain things at the kid's level about what you do from these videos. http://www.discoverykids.ca/shows/pmk/episodes.asp

  64. Wouldn't work in germany by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    That would work maybe in English speaking countries, but not in Germany. We love big words down here, and, in the good tradition of gnomis/A-Team engineering, when we only have a bucket of small words, we get out our toolbox and build a huge word out of it.

    We don't say "car", for example, we say, "Personenkraftwagen" (basically, "powered wagon for persons") or abbreviate it to PKW. But even if you abbreviate it, "Pe-Ka-Ve", is already 3 syllables. Buggerit. You can't explain cars in one syllable words down here, so I guess we all don't really understand cars. Bit of a shame, with all the car manufacturing we do, really ;)

    Actually, it gets funnier. Verbs are _usually_ two parts, since one part often gets to mark the end of the sentence. (That's the _first_ part of the verb that goes to the end of the sentence, btw.) That's not just a random detour, btw. I'm saying that because even when you're essentially just using the base meaning of the base verb, there's often a variant with an extra particle anyway, just to have something to put at the end of the sentence. So there goes the idea of using one syllable verbs.

    The germanic tribes must have been really poor people, I figure. They couldn't afford a lot of verbs, so they left us a few base verbs and a small bucket of extra parts they can be combined with, to get just about everything else.

    For example "bringen" (to bring) can be combined in fun ways to get stuff not even vaguely related to the root, like "umbringen" (to kill.) Or "ziehen" (to pull) can end up a plethora of other verbs, including "umziehen" (to move, as in, for example, to another residence), "anziehen" (to dress), "ausziehen" (to undress), etc. The verb "fangen" (to catch) can end up such stuff as the unrelated "anfangen" (to begin.)

    Since in half the sentences that particle goes to the end of the sentence, you get the suspense of not knowing whether I brought my neighbour with me, or I killed him, until that last (actually, first) bit of the verb lands. It's poor man's Hitchcock, really. One mean trick you can play on your German friends is to _not_ say that last part, and watch their eyes glaze for a few seconds as they struggle to not forget the rest of the sentence while waiting for that last crucial bit. But I digress.

    So, sadly, you're out of luck explaining anything in one syllable words to a German kid.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  65. Association "La main à la pâte" by biet · · Score: 0

    The french association "La main à la pâte" promotes the education of science in school (3-10 years old).
    It was founded by Georges Charpak, Nobel prize in physics 1992.

    The web site contains a lot of articles that are used as a base for presentations in schools. The presentations emphasis on experimentation.

    http://www.lamap.fr/ (sorry the web site is in french)

  66. your son? by Ace905 · · Score: 1

    I'm 28 and I don't get what it is that you do. Why don't you see if you can explain it to one of your neighbors first. There's all different levels of understanding, I mean if I were your neighbor and you said anything close to 'physicist' I would start the 'uh huh, ok' nodding ritual until you were done. Tell your son you measure things all day - I'm sure he'll see you for the exciting frat party you truly are.

    ---
    Frat party?

    --

    Ace
  67. Put your glasses on by marcus · · Score: 1

    Then perhaps you will be able to see past the end of your nose.

    Think having a bunch of illiterate hoodlums running around doesn't have a negative impact on a childless member of society? Think some more, you might eventually get the correct answer.

    Altruism is not required. For entirely selfish reasons I want good schools, attentive responsible parents, and my tax dollars well spent rather than wasted.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
  68. Tell your kid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that you watch to see if people think they're moving when all the scenery whizzes by on the video screen. Then you write down and record what you've seen. That should scratch that one off. (Regardless of how genius a sceintist is, he's not much use outside of his field if he can't put things in layman's terms. Probably a good reason why most kids lose interest in the stuff when they can't make heads or tails of it. The tricky part is to make it concise and understandable without dumbing it down too much, as this is another way to make a kid rapidly lose interest.)

    The other aspect of science that kids should be able to grasp is asking a lot of questions and figuring out how stuff works. The tedious recording of data is more or less checking off what works and what doesn't for future reference. That's more or less what the process is about put into the most simple terms, and it should come naturally to kids. (Until they get tired of being told to stop asking dumb questions. Some don't, and those are probably your future scientists.)

  69. Tell him you're a dustman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just tell him you are a dustman. He will admire you.

  70. From my teaching of science class by rojo_net · · Score: 1

    As a techie whose planning on retiring as a teacher, I just finished my teaching of science class in a masters program and I have to say that many people in the comments are missing the boat. There is so much opportunity for learning science concepts and more importantly 'doing' science at a young age. But rather than just take my word for it, check out the K-2 Science Standards at both the National Level and in your state: http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/nses/6a.html There's many inquiry-based, standard-based programs that you can tap into as a teacher or parent. One, such as fossweb, has a kindergarten module called Animals Two By Two. Most people are like WTF, why 2 by 2. But for kindergarteners, having two of the same animal side by side helps them in developing skills such as compare and contrast, asking questions, observation, and a little bit of analysis as well. That's just one example and there are many, just look for stuff that's standard's compliant and hands-on rather than the old science facts memorization lessons that left so many people so dumb.