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Volunteer to Simulate a Mars Mission for the ESA
number6x writes "The European Space Agency (ESA) is looking for volunteers for a simulated trip to Mars. The simulation will put a crew of six in isolation for 17 months. The crew will be made up of 4 Russians and 2 Europeans. In all the ESA will need 12 volunteers for back up purposes. Seventeen months was chosen to simulate the time needed for the journey to Mars and back, as well as a 30 day period spent doing experiments on the red planet."
Simple question. Will they be allowed to have sex?
Four Russians and two Europeans cooped up for 17 months in a confined space? Do you have any idea how bad that's going to smell? It's going to be like feet wrapped in leathery, burnt bacon. Ewwww!
...bone loss, extended radiation exposure, and catastrophic micrometeorite punctures?
That would be a reality show worth watching...
--Gene
Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
Get your ass to simulated Mars!
</Aahnold>
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
The entire crew should be made up of nerds and geeks. They can do 17 months without sex standing on their heads.
Only we called it "Big Brother", and it was the end of tv as we knew it.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Virtually all modern plans for Mars missions follow the same basic timeline: 6 months travel to Mars, 2 years on the planet, and 8 months back. The idea of a 30-day stay on the planet was abandoned long ago by NASA.
This simulation takes away the huge reward of the long travel time, and replaces it with a brief 30 day stint of freedom.
They'll surely get interesting results, they just won't be worth anything when it comes time to actually plan a real manned Mars mission.
*most people never really think about the consequences*
Wrong - Pauly Shore did it first, Budddddddddy. Biodome ftw.
17 months still won't simulate their worst obstacles. Radiation and extreme conditions are still factors that are keeping them from going there at the moment. I doubt that controlling the spacecraft and living conditions will vary much from current space station accomodations.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
You get paid 120 EUR / day. And if I understood correctly, it's counted as "allowance", meaning it's tax-free..
Since they would put the 6 people in isolation, they could sell that as a reality show and fund the mission.
Please correct me if I am wrong: From what I understand, the major danger from trips to Mars is poor shielding from cosmic rays and other forms of radiation during the trip. Any progress on that?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Provide a solid net connection, and a free account or two...
Volunteers should come flocking in.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Every single day, the same routine, the same faces, the same surroundings, the same conversations... or I could leave IT and sign up for this!
/. is falling behind. this is old news.
my wife was trying to volunteer me for this yesterday.
wait,,,
you know, the one that slaughters the crew.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
*shiver*
The future of space travel just lost so many geek points.
A 30 day trip to mars after 8 months of travel would be like a family driving the kids to Disneyland, riding on one ride, and then everybody back in the car for the ride home!
I understand that this experiment is probably limited by funds, not a realistic simulation, etc.... but really, 30 days?
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
The space station has quasi-ecological isolation. Although they get re-supplied almost every month and have the option of immediate escape.
Ecological isolation didnt quite work in Biosphere II (soon to become condos). It was hard to keep the atmosphere in balance and grow enough food. Most participants lost 1/4 to 1/3 of weight.
The definition of Russian sounds weird to me.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Is_Everybody%3F
There's a hell of a lot more to going to Mars that we need to understand and this experiment fills in some of the picture. Not that the radiation danger isn't important, but other experiments can deal with that problem. This requires an unprecedented combination of restriction and isolation. I think that we're going to find that the psychological impact on "astronauts" will change how we're going to need to design these missions. So, no Mars Direct-style flights in small cramped spacecraft. I suspect that the mission lengths will mandate larger, roomier spacecraft with more amenities. Which means no Mars flight by 2030 or whatever they're saying now.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
the Mars mission will fail because there is no killer app!
They should use the old Apollo sets they used when they faked the moon landings. ;)
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I don't see what the big deal is with simulated space travel, after all NASA has been doing it for years.
Being confined to a tin can with 5 other people for 17 months is the most horrifying prospect I've ever dared to ponder.
of a certain couple of movies that deal with a similar-ish thing.
We also know how insane even scientists and researchers get during a several-month physical isolation from the rest of the world.
I'm hoping that Red Mars was required reading before they designed this kind of an experiment... I would assume that a similar level of precise requirements are being put into place here, as were found in that book.
Geek power unite! We've already been shown how to colonize space... just read the extensive manuals published by Issac Asimov, James Blish, and Robert A. Henlien!
Seriously ! I spent a year with 12 other people in the middle of Antarctica in 2005 and we were being followed by shrinks of the ESA. There's a big difference between a winterover and the proposed experiment: the first has a purpose while the second has not. I mean the only purpose here is to stay in a can. At least when you go to Mars or to Antarctica you have a job to perform and important things to do (science and ensuring your survival because there's no way out). Here you'll have people crack down after a few weeks from a sense of uselessness. I would sign up for another winterover or a Mars mission no questions asked. I wouldn't get canned like this for a heap of gold and an all you can download porn access.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Why haven't we already been to Mars then? It was my understanding it would takes years just to go one way. If we can make it there and back in 17 months that is doable with current technology. No need for cryogenics etc. There have been several people on the ISS for longer periods of time. So the human body can take it.
Think about it, zero gravity and one mistake could put out an eye. Not to mention traumatize someone for life.
are located in Europe even if most of Russia is within the geographic boundaries of Asia.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
I didn't realize it was so hard to make a trip to get a Mars Bar. I just go to the convenience store, pick one up off the shelf, then go to the register and pay my 79 cents. Then I eat it. What's so difficult about getting a Mars?
And FoxNews will devote several hour-long 'special features' and 'townhall meetings' which center arround bashing those godless heathens who would have sex outside of marriage and a gravitational field.
Blar.
Sure! and people can send an SMS to vote who will be thrown out the airlock at the end of the week!
surely the type of people who will be involved in this project will not the same type of people as astronauts? somebody whos best employment oppertunity is to get locked in a can for months on end is not of the same stock...
Put 'em in a cargo container and take that show on the road! Here's the box at Disneyland! Here's the box at Niagara Falls! Can you spot our box among 973 identical boxes on this cargo vessel headed for Bangkok? Tonight's episode: Inside the box, inside an Antonov!
I'm not sure the point of this exercise. They should test the entire pool of _trained_ astronauts and then pick the final bunch from those who pass. Not waste time testing volunteers.
After all if they didn't limit it to EU people and Russians there'll be tons of people from poorer countries who'd be willing to get 120 EURs x 30 days x 17 months PLUS get free food and lodging in a fairly safe environment ( no earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanos, floods, hurricanes etc).
There are maids from Indonesia and Philippines who leave their family and friends to go to some foreign country (where they may not know the language and risk nasty employers and bad working conditions) to earn about 90-180 EUR (120-240 USD) a _month_. They work for 2 years and don't get a chance to see their husbands/wives or children. Go google for indonesian maid usd salary.
17 months and they'll get what they'd normally take 28-56 years to earn!
And for many desperate people, if they are 100% sure you would pay their family say USD1 million, they would be fine with a one way trip to _nowhere_, Mars would be fantastic, even a one way trip to the edge of space would be wonderful.
Might as well study prisoners in maximum security prisons.
And what have rude, psychopathic, depressed, suicidal Russian alcoholics ever done to you?!
~~~hsl~~~
catchpa:tautnessHazardous alcohol drinking causes 43% of deaths in Russian men aged 25-54...not that I think they are going to load the thing up with alcoholics, but it is sad.
FCC Official: "Oh you can have sex. Just no moaning, no grunting, no movement of any kind."
Lois: "Well that's not very romantic... I mean, how are we..."
Peter, interjecting: "I'm done. Night Lois." Passes out on top of Lois
http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsite s/S/spacecadets/
We're not falling for it twice!
Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
Why don't they just evaluate the "volunteers" in Guantanamo? They have been stuck in tiny rooms for much longer than 17 months, sometimes completely isolated.
Indeed. One of the challenges would be particle accelerator roulette.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Well, getting out is easy. It's also very final ...
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
The Russians better enjoy the simulation because that is as close to Mars as they are going to get. The US has effectively locked the Russians out of Project Constellation because of their naughty behavior around the world.
It takes one hell of a rocket to take off from earth to get to mars.
How on earth are we going to place a rocket on mars big enough to be able to take off and break mars' orbit? We can land a small tiny puny little shuttle on mars, at best.
The gravity may be less than on earth, but not anywhere near the moon's gravity.
Forget it, mission to mars can only work if we ship it with suicide astronauts. Any takers?
....but I read that you have to be no taller than 6'1".
Profound is my dissapointment.
This is how exploration works my friend.
When explorers would hit new land by ship they could not simply say "X was here" and then turn around and go back. Not enough food or potable water. So you have to figure it out, get supplies, or you stay until more people come and then you work together. Or, You die.
an aside.
Take a look at the state of the world.
You have a chance to go to mars, be the first in a line of explorers. New frontier... etc... Would you really want to come back?
Are we being too planet-centric?
;).
:)
So many people seem to be assuming a planet as a _final_ destination.
The way I see it: the odds of finding a "nice" planet and getting there without FTL travel are low. The odds of finding a "nearby" planet more comfortable than spacecraft/fleets designed and built to carry humans for centuries are even lower.
I suggest that once our planet/star starts to become less hospitable, there'll be a high incentive to move to space stations further out in the solar system.
Life in space will definitely not be the same as life on present day Earth, but I'm assuming by that time the Earth wouldn't be such a nice place to live in, so there's not much choice: "adapt or die".
Once you've fleets and systems that can be built, maintained and sustained in space from materials that you can get in space (asteroids, comets) then a fleet may decide to go nomadic and roam slowly towards some star (perhaps they could send some supplies (asteroids with stuff in them?) ahead of them for supplies - sending the supplies earlier allows you to send them slower and thus save energy - but finding and catching the supplies/fuel later on is going to be "interesting"). They might not succeed in actually reaching the star system, but as it has been argued, the chances of doing it the current "conventional way" are also pretty low (energy requirements are too high etc).
If this roaming nomadic fleet thing is actually feasible (I haven't done any calculations), who knows, they might one day find a very nice planet, but perhaps by that time, most would rather just continue on with their "home fleet" after perhaps a short tour/visit of the planet, rather than be "trapped permanently there"
But meanwhile all this "send humans to mars" stuff seems to be a big waste of time and money. Seems better to figure a safe, reliable, cheap and effective way to get off this planet.
Now if they were talking about sending politicians to The Moon/Mars/orbit, then perhaps it could be worth it. As I've suggested to someone you could have a TV show called "Vote off the planet". Even if you didn't actually send them off, it could be worth watching the interviews of the "winners" (return or one-way).
Some geek-types spend most of their lives in isolation - this wont be much of a change to them. Its the astronaut jock types that may crack under the "stress" of doing nothing but sitting in front of a computer all day sipping mountain dew.
I dunno, maybe same way we did it on the moon? The orbiter stays in orbit (hence it's name) while a smaller landing module exits and lands on the surface. That way, you're not making round trips through Mars gravity with a lot of stuff you don't need on the surface. When you're done, leave most of what you brought on the surface and return to the orbiter in the landing module carrying little else but the astronauts and their samples. Fuel demands for this are a small fraction of what it would take for an entire craft.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
Motivated people throughout history have endured considerably more privation than being confined to 92 m2/person for 17 months. We know that from a psychological standpoint, people can and will make a trip of this nature. The key word here is motivation.
But if the participants know that the whole thing is a simulation, it robs the experiment of any useful insight into many aspects of psychological stress because this motivational factor is missing; the difference between a simulated airlock and a real one will not be lost on participants. The project would thus seem to be a way to validate the astronaut selection process itself, and not just a study on long-term isolation - in other words, "we know people can handle it, but we still don't have a reliable way of knowing which ones". The recent diapers-and-knives episode amply illustrates that astronaut selection is something of an inexact science.
Of course, this still leaves lots of room for interesting experiments on group dynamics, but we already know quite a lot on this subject: for example, years of experimentation with Skylab, Mir etc. suggested that if there was some tension in the group, ground control would usually create an obviously impossible schedule of work for the team, creating a them-versus-us mentality which tended to bring the team closer; tensions within the group were eased by colluding to grumble about ground control.
This sort of thing has been studied exhaustively by many military and civilian organisations for a long time, so what are the objectives here?
Will there be hookers and blow? And I'd like copies of all the single player games and the machinery to run it on.
0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
Colony: NASA, we have a priority 1 distress call.
NASA: Is it your life support system?
Colony: No worse, our WOW server is down, repeat, our WOW server is DOWN!!!!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
The gravity in orbit is (basicly) the same as it is on earth, its all that pesky air you have to push through. Breaking the earths gravitational pull requires very little fuel once you remove air from the equation. (Literally....)
The moon has 1/6th or something of the earths gravity, yet it requires almost no fuel to travel from the surface of the moon back to earth.
Try it sometime! theres a great orbital spaceflight sim called "orbiter". it makes a lot of the non-intuitive concepts of spaceflight make sense.
How would they simulate the continuous effect of weightlessness?
The social aspects of this study will never be meaningful. The kind of people that will qualify for something as demanding and monumental as a manned mission to Mars are not the same kind of people that are willing and able to drop their lives for 17 months stuck in a metal box 5 other people (i.e. the kind of losers that are on Big Brother and other 'reality' TV shows).
I mean, what if they start killing each other? Hey, we already had one astronaut snap, and that was on the ground! Will they stop the experiment? Do the astronauts know that ahead of time?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Gravith is 1/3 of Earth's. Atmosphere is much much thinner. It'll take way too much energy to take off from the surface to orbit, even with the most minimalistic craft. I really don't think it's possible to pull it off, unless we invent a new better way of propulsion, instead of that stupid propulsion by shooting out gas through a rocket engine.
Why dont they try prisons. I am pretty sure there are some prisoners who would not mind volunteering. After all they are already cooped up. I am sure they are some intelligent well tempered prisoners who are capable of conducting this experiment
"Drawing closer to world domination, keystroke by keystroke."
Can I nominate my mother in law?