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iPhone Root Password Hacked in Three Days

unPlugged-2.0 writes "An Australian developer blog writes that the iPhone root password has already been cracked. The story outlines the procedure but doesn't give the actual password. According to the story: 'The information came from an an official Apple iPhone restore image. The archive contains two .dmg disk images: a password encrypted system image and an unencrypted user image. By delving into the unencrypted image inquisitive hackers were able to discover that all iPhones ship with predefined passwords to the accounts 'mobile' and 'root', the last of which being the name of the privileged administration account on UNIX based systems.' Though interesting, it doesn't seem as though the password is good for anything. The article theorizes it may be left over from development work, or could have been included to create a 'false trail' for hackers."

311 comments

  1. Prediction... by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will get picked up by blogs, news sites - and, if we're lucky, given a good mangling by sloppy journalists in the mainstream press - as somehow meaning that any iPhone can be "broken into" by a malicious third party, and/or that all iPhones are now "insecure", and/or that iPhones - and all the personal data on them - are now, because of this, vulnerable to remote attack, when none of those things are true.

    Also, from TFA and the summary:

    "Having the passwords will not do anybody any good for the moment. The iPhone has no console or terminal access, so there is no way to log in as either account. In fact, nobody even seems certain that the accounts access the machine at all, some Internet commentators suggesting that the password file was left over from early development work, or was intentionally included to throw hackers off the scent."

    These kind of idiotic replies to the blog post are telling:

    Poetic Justice - 04/07/07
    So much for Apple being the most secure OS in the world. Welcome to Microsoft's world, Jobs.


    Wow, cracking a local password on a file that belongs to a device to which you have physical access?

    Stop the presses!

    Since iPhones don't have any kind of access that makes this "discovery" meaningful, I'm sure that people will just misunderstand the implications of this, and because of the iPhones popularity - and a lot of peoples' desire to tear it down or create any FUD they can to dissuade interested people from possibly buying an iPhone - I'm sure this and related stories will be big news.

    1. Re:Prediction... by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "dissuade interested people from possibly buying an iPhone"

      What? This wouldn't have that effect at all. It would have the -opposite- effect. Those who had not planned to purchase may think they could mod it like a ps2 and poof, instant super-phone.

      Yes, we aren't quite there... But I have little doubt we'll get there pretty quickly.

      Now if they manage to unlock it -and- provide access to run any app I compile, I would be very interested.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Prediction... by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Assuming the iPhone is hacked to the point where it's easily modifiable, yes, it will have the opposite effect in the extremely small niche market.

      In the mainstream, this can easily get spun as the iPhone is extremely insecure, and has been "broken into", causing normal people to steer very clear.

    3. Re:Prediction... by Drizzt+Do'Urden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IIRC, if the iPhone uses NetInfo like MacOS X does on Macs, that password might be usefull only in single user mode.

    4. Re:Prediction... by Dahamma · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since iPhones don't have any kind of access that makes this "discovery" meaningful

      That pretty much sums up how useless this article was.

      By the way, if anyone wants it, you can have the combination to my luggage.

    5. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't quite understand your reaction. Well, it's not even a reaction... that stuff hasn't happened yet.

      And what makes you think that those things will happen? Well, things like this have been precedented. And you mentioned exactly where the precedent always has happened! Microsoft! 99% of the "vulnerabilities" that get reported here on slashdot simply are not vulnerabilities.

      Keep your reaction in until stuff actually happens. It's only the apple and lunix fanboys who give FUD about non-issues.

    6. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, cracking a local password on a file that belongs to a device to which you have physical access? For someone in IT, you seem to have very little regard for remote exploit potential. Let us say that the root password actually does give some access not previously available to a normal user (or an attacker for that matter). Now, there are a few ways to gain access to that file locally. I am sure you know (since you are in IT right?) that many remote exploits and attacks still require someone to run a program or open a file locally.

      There are a few ways to do this, including using "social engineering" to get people. Hell, some one could find an exploit in the iPhone's web browser and then this could potentially become a huge problem. Now, this all hinges on the root password actually giving you something you didn't have before, which it has been speculated to not; however, to say that it is nothing is not stupid but just plain naive.
    7. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 5, Funny

      Assuming the iPhone is hacked to the point where it's easily modifiable, yes, it will have the opposite effect in the extremely small niche market.

      In the mainstream, this can easily get spun as the iPhone is extremely insecure, and has been "broken into", causing normal people to steer very clear.


      Doesn't the price tag already do that?

    8. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Well, Symbian 'viruses' require you to manually allow the installation three times, and some
      people believe it's insecure. Even if you could reflash your iPhone with your own firmware
      (unlikely without dedicated hardware) what's to stop unofficial ROMs being made available on
      the net that contain trojan horses etc, boasting to have some cool new app? All it takes is
      one stupid user to download it and have his phonebook copied to Russia, call premium rate
      lines without his knowledge etc.

      Being spammed on your phone is going to be far more irritating than email spam and, with North
      American users paying to receive calls and texts (ha ha ha), will cost big bucks.

    9. Re:Prediction... by Organic+User · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the price tag already do that? Apparently no. Gotta love inflation.
    10. Re:Prediction... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Since iPhones don't have any kind of access that makes this "discovery" meaningful, I'm sure that people will just misunderstand the implications of this, and because of the iPhones popularity - and a lot of peoples' desire to tear it down or create any FUD they can to dissuade interested people from possibly buying an iPhone - I'm sure this and related stories will be big news.


      And if it does, so what? Unless you have AAPL stock, why should you care?

      In any respect, people aren't that security conscious anyhow. Most people who are even moderately computer literate know that Windows is a buggy, insecure POS. Most people use Windows anyways.

    11. Re:Prediction... by m0nkyman · · Score: 5, Funny

      If it isn't one of the following I'd be shocked:
      123 000 999 666

      Those four will open 99% of all luggage in the world that doesn't contain a laptop, cash or a gun.

      --
      ~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
    12. Re:Prediction... by j.sanchez1 · · Score: 0

      By the way, if anyone wants it, you can have the combination to my luggage.

      Is it 1-2-3-4-5?

      --
      Speedy thing goes in; speedy thing comes out.
    13. Re:Prediction... by daveschroeder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I do have little regard for remote exploits that haven't occurred.

      I have a very high regard, on the other hand, for remote exploits that have occurred or are shown to be possible.

      You're making a string of assumptions - that the password is even usable (which it may not be), that a remote exploit via the browser is possible, and that even if both happen, that this enables some higher level of access.

      Are all of those things possible? Perhaps. But all of those have to be provably true before it justifies knee jerks that the iPhone is somehow "insecure", which are already happening around the blogs.

      Also, I didn't say it was nothing. I said this story will probably get mangled to imply that - right now - it's somehow possible or very likely possible to "break into" iPhones remotely. And that's patently incorrect.

    14. Re:Prediction... by ChakatSanddancer · · Score: 1
      Just as an FYI, the firmware has alredy been hacked and is currently being disassembled. Arbitrary code execution should happen within the next day or so, if not by the end of the afternoon.

      Oh, and there's a zero-day quicktime exploit which may prove useful as well in allowing third party arbitrary code execution as well. Can't give too many details yet, the friend who is working on it is busy with the first approach first. So, yeah, iPhone security is pretty much broken.

    15. Re:Prediction... by owsla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed, NetInfo is probably in place since the complete /etc/passwd has a comment suggesting such at the top:

      # User Database
      # Note that this file is consulted when the system is running in single-user
      # mode. At other times this information is handled by lookupd. By default,
      # lookupd gets information from NetInfo, so this file will not be consulted
      # unless you have changed lookupd's configuration.
      nobody:*:-2:-2::0:0:Unprivileged User:/var/empty:/usr/bin/false
      root:XUU7aqfpey51o:0:0::0:0:System Administrator:/var/root:/bin/sh
      mobile:/smx7MYTQIi2M:501:0::0:0:Mobile User:/var/mobile:/bin/sh
      daemon:*:1:1::0:0:System Services:/var/root:XUU7aqfpey51o
      unknown:*:99:99::0:0:Unknown User:/var/empty:/usr/bin/false

    16. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They pay... to RECEIVE calls and texts?

      If this is true then the American mobile telephony system is more fucked up then I previously imagined.

    17. Re:Prediction... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Let me guess: 1-2-3-4-5-6?

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    18. Re:Prediction... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Crap, change my luggage combination!

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    19. Re:Prediction... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Argh! darn phone calls making me post late. Anyway, mine's from "Space Balls" :-D

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    20. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know the Gizmodo-troll types think "unbiased" means one can not state the truth, but in reality, "unbiased" means not having any reason to say something that isn't true.

      Unbiased does not mean stating both sides equally, because both sides are not always equal. An unbiased opinion on Iraq does not spend half the time saying the war is going well if it's not.

      An unbiased opinion on the iPhone does not hesitate to points out its limitations, but doesn't have to spend "equal" time on being negative about it, if its flaws do not warrant it.

      The iPhone is quite obviously a good product, with some limitations that might not work out for some people. It is not a 50/50 or middle of the road product, and compared to competitive landscape, it is very impressive on a number of levels.

      Also, FYI: Calling anyone a "fanboy" immediately identifies you an ignorant troll and ensures that nothing you have to say is worth hearing.

    21. Re:Prediction... by myatmpinis1234 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Guess I better change my ATM pin.

    22. Re:Prediction... by fbjon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      They pay... to RECEIVE calls and texts? If this is true then the American mobile telephony system is more fucked up then I previously imagined. That's to be expected, the American mobile phone system is fucked up beyond all imagination. :p
      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    23. Re:Prediction... by Belacgod · · Score: 1

      Yep, and you can't block them. I've heard tell of groups harassing people by sending thousands of text-messages to one person, overloading their text message quota (if they have texting service). Personally, I don't use texts and I'd like to be unable to recieve them. Lazy friends, pick up the fracking phone and call me.

    24. Re:Prediction... by dave562 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Those four will open 99% of all luggage in the world that doesn't contain a laptop, cash or a gun.

      And 23% of those that do? And 69% of those that contain two of the three? And what percent of statistics are complete bullshit again?

    25. Re:Prediction... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "and a lot of peoples' desire to tear it down or create any FUD they can to dissuade interested people from possibly buying an iPhone "

      From what I've seen, it's less about dissuading people to buy phones and more about illustrating the hypocrisy. Take any fanboy debate (Sony vs. Nintendo, Star Wars vs. Star Trek, Garbage Pail Kids vs. Baseball cards) and you'll generally find that the behaviour is the same on BOTH sides. You'll praise things that one side does that you'll chastise the other for. Do this for long enough, and other people will draw extra attention to FUDdy events, even if unjustified. Why? Because they've seen the fanboys do it and want to teach them a lesson. People just have no idea how their behaviour incites the behaviour they hate. They behave even worse when their motives are explained in such a way that their own guilt is not established.

      I'll give you an example: I frequent a sci-fi forum. The Star Wars prequels were generally not well recieved. The criticism of it reached such an extreme, people were saying things like "George Lucase raped my childhood!" There were a few people that really did enjoy the prequels. But since public opinion was against them, they laid low. But then... something miraculous happened: Enterprise was cancelled. Suddenly these guys had some ammo, plus public opinion on their side. "B&B bastardized Star Trek! Roddenberry's spinning in his grave!" The prequel fans were happy for a while. Eventually one of them gathered up the courage to defend Star Wars again. "You guys can't be saying that Star Wars sucks. It's just your OPINION that it sucks, not a fact, so you haveta say it's just an opinion." (Be thankful I summarized it... the original post was four paragaraphs!) This seemed like a reasonable well intentioned request, for about five minutes until he posted in the next thread that Poseidon 'sucked'. He was called out on it, but never responded. This angered quite a few people, so the cycle continues...

      Zealotry breeds zealotry. It can be stopped simply by not going to ridiculous extremes to make a point about how some company/product/franchise sucks. Unfortunately, most people would rather play Verbal Kombat. So, the bed's been made, lay down, and try to enjoy it. ;)

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    26. Re:Prediction... by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

      Go back to the golf course and work on your movie quotes. The code from Spaceballs was "1-2-3-4-5", not "1-2-3-4-5-6".

      May the schwartz be with you.

    27. Re:Prediction... by m0nkyman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And what percent of statistics are complete bullshit again?

      100% would be my guess, provided we're dealing with the specific subset of 'statistics used during discussions on online forums'.

      --
      ~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
    28. Re:Prediction... by desmondmonster · · Score: 1

      I just wanted to say: right on. Whether politics, commerce, or technology, people are still people and they do this same dance every day with every opinion! If I had mod points I'd pass them on; in the meantime please accept some real-world karma.

    29. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hacking the iPhone is actually breaking into it... at least from the point of view of the corporations that want it to be locked down.

      Hopefully AT&T is the only one that really wants the iPhone locked down. If Apple is serious about securing the device against its own users, it may be necessary to do some hardware hacking.

    30. Re:Prediction... by hatchet · · Score: 1

      >john-mmx iphone.pwd
      Loaded 2 password hashes with 2 different salts (Traditional DES [64/64 BS MMX])

      alpine (mobile)
      dottie (root)
      guesses: 2 time: 0:00:00:31 (3) c/s: 685650 trying: dewMso - dotty1

      mobile password was gotten instantly (in first second)
      30secs using john the ripper with no special word files or anything.

      http://www.openwall.com/john/

    31. Re:Prediction... by galimore · · Score: 1

      Apparently not, since I bought 2. ;)

    32. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, I'd just say that someone who reads/posts to /. doesn't fit *my* vision of of a "normal person". Maybe that's geekist of me.

    33. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Gotta love inflation.

      Well, in tiny amounts, sure. But when inflation grows too fast, you end up paying 8million Deutschmarks for a house or scrabbling for cardboard to recycle.

      Oh, wait, you were being facetious? Damn you, Internet! *shakes fist* You got me again!

    34. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you'll be here defending Apple when they announce a fix for this, just like you were around defending apple after it became known that the user wouldn't be able to change the battery themselves, right?

    35. Re:Prediction... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Go back to the golf course and work on your movie quotes. The code from Spaceballs was "1-2-3-4-5", not "1-2-3-4-5-6". SOB!!!! I don't even play golf, what am I going to do now?!?
      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    36. Re:Prediction... by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 2, Insightful
      No! That isn't the purpose of the price. That's the purpose of the AT&T contract. The purpose of the price is to ensure that, when you see someone with an iPhone, you will realize how hip and important that very special person is.

      Please don't confuse the two.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    37. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iPhone is also quite obviously very expensive. Price is a key factor in deciding whether or not a product a worthwhile purchase. It may have superior features, but it's pretty close to a middle-of-the-road product in terms of value. It's not so unreasonable to say that it might be pretty good, but in order to be a good value for its price, it needs to be even better (or cheaper).

      Also, FYI: If you want to claim the moral high ground on name-calling, then you might want to reconsider labeling people who disagree with you trolls.

    38. Re:Prediction... by tyme · · Score: 1
      daveschroeder wrote:

      In the mainstream, this can easily get spun as the iPhone is extremely insecure, and has been "broken into", causing normal people to steer very clear.


      Of course, because, as we all know, nobody would buy any product that was full of security holes: That's why Microsoft is having such a difficult time establishing themselves as a credible alternative on the desktop.
      --
      just a ghost in the machine.
    39. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh, you mean it's like a law degree! Got it. My mistake.

    40. Re:Prediction... by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i wish i had mod points.

      first time i have seen "geekist" used in the right context..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    41. Re:Prediction... by trianglman · · Score: 1

      Apple fanatics and people who could afford the extra eye-candy and wanted the status symbol do not count as "normal" people in my book. So yes, the price tag does keep most "normal" people from buying it.

      --
      Clones are people two.
    42. Re:Prediction... by tfoss · · Score: 1

      By the way, if anyone wants it, you can have the combination to my luggage. It's 12345.

      -Ted
      --
      -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
    43. Re:Prediction... by be-fan · · Score: 1

      I do enjoy the "hacking the password" by looking through an unencrypted disk image :)

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    44. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, first of all, thank you. And second of all, I wish you had mod points, too. Except that if you *had* had them, and then you posted, they'd be gone...so I guess it's a moo point, after all. (Yes, that was a Friends reference and not an inadvertant misuse, just in case anyone was wondering.)

    45. Re:Prediction... by pkulak · · Score: 1

      Is it 12345?

    46. Re:Prediction... by Amouth · · Score: 1

      well if i had had them i would have jsut gave them to you and let it be.. instead i burned karma - just like now :)

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    47. Re:Prediction... by SeaFox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the mainstream, this can easily get spun as the iPhone is extremely insecure, and has been "broken into", causing normal people to steer very clear.

      Its common knowledge Windows is extremely insecure, yet I don't see people steering clear of it.
    48. Re:Prediction... by dlim · · Score: 1

      But only 44% of all statistics are used "during discussions in online forums". 26% are used in advertising. 17% are used in the news / investigative journalism, 2% are used in executive reports and powerpoint presentations, 9% are used by political action committees and the rest are split 50/50 between academics and, well, everyone else.

    49. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      Those four will open 99% of all luggage in the world that doesn't contain a laptop, cash or a gun.

      I don't get it. What world doesn't contain a laptop, cash, or a gun, and yet has luggage?

    50. Re:Prediction... by rapidweather · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      In the mainstream, this can easily get spun as the iPhone is extremely insecure, and has been "broken into", causing normal people to steer very clear.


      That's a shame, really, because this device seems to be way ahead of a lot of mobile phones, blackberrys, etc.
      and the sales thereof should keep Apple in business for a long time, giving a nice balance to the marketplace.
      I have an old Macintosh Quadra 660AV, and still appreciate some of the things that it can do. The iPhone really seems to be much more of a "must-have" than the iPod series of devices. From what I gather, the iPhone can do all iPod can and much more. Distinguished from a small mp3 player, the iPods have a decent screen where you can pick your song do other things with your playlist, rather than just play the songs one after another. Apple has sold 100 million of them, really remarkable. Here's Apple's statement on the iPod success:


      CUPERTINO, California--April 9, 2007--Apple® today announced that the 100 millionth iPod® has been sold, making the iPod the fastest selling music player in history. The first iPod was sold five and a half years ago, in November 2001, and since then Apple has introduced more than 10 new iPod models, including five generations of iPod, two generations of iPod mini, two generations of iPod nano and two generations of iPod shuffle. Along with iTunes® and the iTunes online music store, the iPod has transformed how tens of millions of music lovers acquire, manage and listen to their music.


      Based on that, and considering that the iPhone is higher in price, they should at least sell half as many before the next big thing comes out.


      Hopefully, this "root password hack" item will not go very far. I, like many others am impressed at how dramatic this latest creation from Apple appears. I say, give credit where credit is due.
      All of us that enjoy what PC's bring to us, with linux (and windows), must remember that our PC's weigh a ton, and except for the laptops (high price, no expansion), would be impossible to carry around from place to place.
      My HP Pavilion 8250 and Gateway2000 EV900 monitor does weigh a ton, and is tethered to power and ethernet cables, mouse, keyboard and all. Nowhere near as portable a web surfing device as the iPhone. The fact that the IPhone has the potential for 10's of millions of sales, and is so portable compared to a web surfing, music playing PC is what is revolutionary about the iPhone.

      Sorry to sound like an Apple fanboy, but that's my take on it.

      - Rapidweather

    51. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Also, FYI: Calling anyone a "fanboy" immediately identifies you an ignorant troll and ensures that nothing you have to say is worth hearing.
      Exactly, because the proper term is "fanboi".
    52. Re:Prediction... by mr_matticus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Parsing error!

      You don't have to call someone a "fanboy" to disagree with them. People who throw around the word "fanboy" left and right in an empty attempt to devalue sound comments are just Ballmeresque, foaming-at-the-mouth trolls.

      You can happily criticize Apple and their supporters and engage in disagreements with them without having to resort to "you're a fanboy so your whole thought process is invalid" attacks.

      Parent did not label people who disagreed with him "trolls." That title was reserved to a specific, hostile subset of those who disagree.

    53. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's up with this asshole with the faggot fettish on /.? Is that you, Monkeyboy? Hey, don't watch porn and eat Cheetos at the same time. Your dick might turn orange. Oh, and your mom's calling you... dinner's ready.

    54. Re:Prediction... by heffeque · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Just for some laughs:

      Microsoft CEO Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone (6 months before it's released):
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

      Now that it's out, I only want to say this:
      *Zune: 1.000.000 sold in 6 months (14/11/2006 to 29/05/2007)
      *iPhone: 500.000 sold in a weekend

    55. Re:Prediction... by fonik · · Score: 1

      It's almost like their license deal with AT&T wouldn't allow 3rd party code so they left all the doors open to hobbyists.

    56. Re:Prediction... by Allnighterking · · Score: 1

      Amen .... If you give me access to the console and an existing password .... the rest is simple enough..... However on the iPhone (or any other phone) the real damage is when they start making realllllllllll long international calls on your dime.

      --

      I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

    57. Re:Prediction... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's like Palm Pilots were back in about 1997.

      The cool thing is, they're pretty good pieces of equipment, and now that they're not 'hip and cool' you can get them for pennies on the (original) dollar on Ebay. And you can do a lot of cool stuff with a 68K dragonball processor in that form factor. They're one hell of a deal at the current market value of $5-15 each.

      We can have similar hopes for the iPhone. Who knows what cool stuff we'll be doing with them five years from now. Hopefully when we crack them open, Apple won't have dongled them to the state of worthless.

    58. Re:Prediction... by Megane · · Score: 1

      The iPhone is also quite obviously very expensive. Price is a key factor in deciding whether or not a product a worthwhile purchase.

      Yeah, it costs as much as a PS3!

      Oh wait, I don't have a PS3 or an iPhone.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    59. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, no true Scotsman would buy one.

    60. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      People who throw around the word "fanboy" left and right in an empty attempt to devalue sound comments are just Ballmeresque, foaming-at-the-mouth trolls. Except that he didn't limit his troll comments to just those people. He opened his post by denouncing "Gizmodo-troll types", presumably because of Gizmodo stories like this one and the Gizmodo readers themselves.

      Regardless, taking offense at name-calling while dishing it out yourself is really bad form even if it isn't downright hypocritical.
    61. Re:Prediction... by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      You can probably block incoming text messages. On my phone (the ultra crappy RAZR V3r that's getting replaced VERY soon) you can set it not automatically accept text. I believe it prompts you every time someone sends one to you, though. So it's still pretty crappy, but at least if it annoys you it won't be annoying you AND costing you money. You should see if your phone has such an option.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    62. Re:Prediction... by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      Well if it only has 3 digits it isn't going to be that useful. Unless there is some excessively cumbersome mechanic to opening the lock you could brute force every combination in a matter of minutes. Even if you started at 000 and worked your way to 999.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    63. Re:Prediction... by sr180 · · Score: 1

      The password was encrypted, the disk image was not.

      --
      In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
    64. Re:Prediction... by kestasjk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The iPhone is also quite obviously very expensive. Price is a key factor in deciding whether or not a product a worthwhile purchase. It may have superior features, but it's pretty close to a middle-of-the-road product in terms of value. It's not so unreasonable to say that it might be pretty good, but in order to be a good value for its price, it needs to be even better (or cheaper). At $499/$599 it should really be more of a PDA than a phone (though the line is blurred these days and will continue to blur). I'd consider $499 for a 2007 Apple Newton, but not a phone.

      By the way do we know yet why they don't let developers run their own apps on the iPhone? It seems that this would make it into something PDA-like very easily. Is it a choice by Apple or was it forced on them?
      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    65. Re:Prediction... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but in general 73% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot!

    66. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right, $499 doesn't sound that bad for a PDA, but PDAs don't come with 2-year contracts. (About $1940 for 2 years with the cheapest iPhone plan.) Many have commented on various PDA-ish features that the iPhone is lacking, most notably support for 3rd-party apps as you mention.

      My personal conspiracy theory is that AT&T is scared that someone would release a VoIP over WiFi application, cutting down on billable minutes. Others have pointed out that the iPhone doesn't have user privilege levels, so there may be a security concern. Finally, there's just the fact that Jobs is a control freak. Any application that doesn't conform to his guidelines would ruin "the experience". One wonders how the multitude of external accessories that are bound to follow will affect the experience.

    67. Re:Prediction... by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      "Also, FYI: Calling anyone a "fanboy" immediately identifies you an ignorant troll and ensures that nothing you have to say is worth hearing."

      Why not if it's the truth? Since when does truth count under only some circumstances?

      Saying something as moronic as you have just done proves that you cannot be unbiased.

    68. Re:Prediction... by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      ...and calling a fanboy a fanboy is just saying it like it is. Not all such comments come from trolls.

      "Parent did not label people who disagreed with him "trolls." That title was reserved to a specific, hostile subset of those who disagree."

      So what? You think the following is a reasoned comment?

      "Calling anyone a "fanboy" immediately identifies you an ignorant troll..."

      What is the matter with you?

    69. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your schwartz is as big as mine

    70. Re:Prediction... by GeoGeer · · Score: 1

      The difference being that a PS3 is sold at a loss to Sony and they soak you for games. The iPhone sells for it's actual selling cost and AT&T can offer a less expensive plan because they did not pay for part of your phone up front. There is cost then there is *real cost*.

    71. Re:Prediction... by anagama · · Score: 1

      Apple ought to covertly help people hack the phone. Personally, I would consider buying it as pocket computer if third party apps could be installed even if that meant not being able to use it as a cell. As you say, it would make a very interesting VoIP device. And with the ability to behave like a real computer to some degree yet fit in a jacket pocket, it would actually be quite usuable for me. Of course, there's alway the Fic phone and openmoko coming up.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    72. Re:Prediction... by Caseyscrib · · Score: 1

      Apple's successes lately aren't the result of superior technology, its because of superior fashion and design. Technically speaking, the iPod was just another mp3 player, but people wanted it because it looked sexy. The same thing goes for the iPhone. And the iMac.

    73. Re:Prediction... by Jerry+Smith · · Score: 1

      They pay... to RECEIVE calls and texts?

      If this is true then the American mobile telephony system is more fucked up then I previously imagined. One of the reasons (I'm told) they don't like to give out their mobile numbers. Unlike Europe, where everybody treats it as a regular number, just a bit more personal ('Everybody has my landline, but here's my mobile number'). Probably because mobile numbers are also fairly easy distinguished from landline numbers in Europe. So I'm told.
      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
    74. Re:Prediction... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you're right. You'd need to adjust it for, say a 5 digit combo. Let's see, 12345, 00000, 99999 and 66666. That should do it.

    75. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, cracking a local password on a file that belongs to a device to which you have physical access? Isn't this a big deal for a smartphone that cannot be remotely disabled like other smartphones? The vast majority of smartphones are bought by business/corporate users (the iPhone may be the first exception). Business/corporate users often have confidential information or access to such info on their smartphones. Smartphones are easier to lose or get stolen than notebook computers. (We've seen many recent headlines about employees losing notebooks with customer credit card info and other personal customer information.)

      If a Blackberry used by an employee of VISA or the IRS is lost or stolen, it can be remotely disabled and secret information can be protected. A lost/stolen iPhone can be a security nightmare for an enterprise IT dept.

    76. Re:Prediction... by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 1

      86% of course. Although, I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't know; only 43% of the population does.

      --
      I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
    77. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      Actually the iPhone plans cost the exact same as their "Nation" plan for the same number of minutes plus SmartPhone Connect Unlimited, which is effectively the same thing.

      iPhone plans (the image name is actually "plans_nation.gif")

      Nation Plans

      SmartPhone Connect Unlimated

    78. Re:Prediction... by UncleFluffy · · Score: 1

      Yep, and you can't block them.

      Yes you can, at least with Sprint. They don't advertise the fact, but they can block it at the account level - you have to call and request it.

      --

      What would Lemmy do?

    79. Re:Prediction... by gig · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > Doesn't the price tag already do that?

      $249 - 8 GB iPod nano
      $99 - generic phone
      $800 - generic PC notebook with Firefox and Wi-Fi and HTML email with attachments
      ------
      $1149

      That does not include I-T and it does not all fit in your pocket.

      For most people, iPhone is cheaper than what they had, easier than what they had, much smaller than what they had.

      I usually have a desktop and a notebook but my notebook retired recently and I'm replacing it with an iPhone because it does all the stuff I do on a notebook anyway and where it lacks at something it makes up by being pocket-sized and zero I-T.

    80. Re:Prediction... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Calling a troll a troll is just saying like it is. What's your point?

      If the best you've got is calling someone a fanboy without any substance otherwise (as in the current context), you are indeed just trolling. Here is the comment, since you've apparently not read it: "Way to have an unbiased reaction yourself there fanboy." AC did a reasonable job of explaining 'unbiased' in response to what is unequivocally a trolling post. He did not label everyone who disagreed with him a troll, nor does the post imply that all Gizmodo users are trolls. Calling someone a fanboy for lack of actual rebuttal does, indeed, identify you as an ignorant troll, so yes, that would be a reasoned comment in the context of the current thread.

      "Fanboy" status has no bearing on the validity of statements. Conversely, a "troll" is by definition something without substance or relevance, so it DOES have bearing on validity. Slashdot moderators have come to use the troll tag as "saying something bad I don't like," which is an unfortunate state of affairs. If you've got a problem with the statement, respond to it. But crying "fanboy" doesn't suddenly make a statement any more or less true, valid, and/or relevant. It's an ad hominem attack designed to distract from not being able to come up with a reasoned response. If you can't deal with the substance and have an adult discussion on the merits, you come off sounding like a petulant child. That sort of thing is rewarded in Slashdot theater, but there is a real world out there, though it too is increasingly debased.

      That said, there ARE empty fanboy posts as well, free of substance or reasoning. The post in question clearly is not one of them.

    81. Re:Prediction... by gig · · Score: 1

      > The fact that the IPhone has the potential for 10's of millions of sales, and is so portable compared to a web surfing, music playing PC

      In the same way that music producers used to think of the CD player as their platform but now think of the iPod, Web developers are going to stop developing for the PC and make content for Web 2.0 mobiles like iPhone and all of the coming iPhone style mobiles, which every maker has said they are working on, although Nokia is furthest along.

      You'll still be able to run the Web on your PC of course, just like you can listen to music in iTunes, but that is secondary to the smaller device. The reason is that there are so many more mobiles than PC's even now and only getting worse. As they all get browsers the Web moves off the PC.

    82. Re:Prediction... by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 1

      It's not because it's "sexy" that I own an iPod, but because it's the easiest to use. The design elements you talk of are truly important, since a device is only useful as long as you can easily access the features you want. Part of my gripe with my current phone is how Motorola and O2 make me jump through hoops to get Google Maps to work, and it still doesn't work right in the end.

      Now don't get me wrong, I like my current phone as it does the important things well (in my case phone calls and Bluetooth UMTS modem), but Apple's charm has always been that it gets so many of the niggling details right.

    83. Re:Prediction... by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      The Ketamine world

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    84. Re:Prediction... by jcr · · Score: 1

      It's worth pointing out the difference between sales to end-users and channel stuffing. I for one do not believe that a million units of the Zune have gotten into the hands of the public.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    85. Re:Prediction... by gig · · Score: 1

      > The iPhone is also quite obviously very expensive.

      The iPhone literally costs less than $1 per day. That is how the 8 GB model's sales are recorded, as $29.13 per month for two years.

      They include over $300 in software that you have to buy separately for Windows Mobile, and they include software updates with new features for two years also.

      > It may have superior features

      It also has features nobody else has, which is a different thing. If you want a real Web browser in your pocket you choose iPhone. If you want to touch your music, again it is iPhone.

      > but it's pretty close to a middle-of-the-road product in terms of value

      I would love to know which phones are more valuable in your opinion.

    86. Re:Prediction... by catman · · Score: 1

      I don't know about other countries, but for a Norwegian mobile, caller pays as long as both phones are
      in Norway. If I'm in, say, Spain, and receive a call from Norway, caller pays as if calling a local phone, while I pay the Norway-to-Spain rate. (If the caller is also in Spain, as in my wife and I on holiday, I just don't know - since both phones automatically register with a Spanish phone network I think it's also treated as a local call.)

      Then there's the problem of roaming in various countries. It's hard to keep up with the rules and prices, so it can be quite costly to take your mobile abroad.

    87. Re:Prediction... by twigusa · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. What world doesn't contain a laptop, cash, or a gun, and yet has luggage? Discworld?
    88. Re:Prediction... by LarsG · · Score: 1

      The iPhone literally costs less than $1 per day.

      Including the 2 year service plan? I don't live in the US so can't really check the validity of the comparisons, but those I've seen show the iPhone on par or more expensive than phones like the BB Curve/Pearl and Treo 750.

      I would love to know which phones are more valuable in your opinion.

      That really depends on what features you want. If GUI isn't important the iPhone is dead in the water. With the iPhone, Apple is doing what Apple does best; make a device that does a few things, and do them well. But in some ways it is also very limited compared to what you expect to find on even a $200 phone.

      To give a few examples:

      Bluetooth can only be used to connect to a headset or car kit. In many other phones BT can be used to sync and transfer files, connect to other accessories (BT keyboard, GPS,..) and allow the PC to use the phone as a modem.

      No MMS. No 3G. No memory slot. And what's the deal with ringtones? The camera is a dime a dozen in the $500 price class, and comes up very short compared to the current king of the hill (N95, 5Mpx and video recording 640x480@30fps). Only way to get pictures off the phone in full quality (email scales it down automatically) is by syncing.

      No native 3rd party applications. On my current phone I have for example a SMB client, and am tinkering with an app that makes it look like a BT mouse/keyboard to the PC. No J2ME. While limited, it is the only lingua franca of cell phones and there are lots of apps written for it. AJAX replacements can be written for some, but you can't replace those that require access to the phone APIs (and if, as some have suggested, the object model of the iPhone browser will be expanded to give access to phone features that sounds like ActiveX-style security holes waiting to happen).

      Even the web browser isn't unique, the latest Nokia phones also use the webkit rendering/javascript engine. They however don't have the tap/pinch user interface.

      That's not to say that the iPhone isn't an interesting product. The thing is gorgeous, and when it comes to UI the traditional phone mfgs definitely have a thing or two to learn from Apple. The iPhone being a success is exactly the kind of wakeup call they need. It is a great iPod and Internet tablet, but as for cramming features into a device the traditional mfgs are better.

      So it really comes down to UI vs features/expandability.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    89. Re:Prediction... by LarsG · · Score: 1

      Apple ought to covertly help people hack the phone. Personally, I would consider buying it as pocket computer if third party apps could be installed even if that meant not being able to use it as a cell.

      If you can manage with a regular stylus instead of multitouch, check out Nokia N800. 802.11b/g, BT2.0, USB2.0, 800x480 screen. Runs Linux.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    90. Re:Prediction... by LarsG · · Score: 2, Funny

      And no 3 number combination will open *that* luggage. Smart burglars just say no to sapient pearwood.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    91. Re:Prediction... by leonem · · Score: 1

      A very sensible post. However, I think the GUI (or UI of another kind) always matters, and it would be better to say "if the GUI doesn't speed up or make easier the tasks you want to perform". One of the great things about OSX is flexibility, e.g.: you have a GUI that's efficient for slinging some files around and sorting them by hand, or you can whack open a terminal and batch-process a simple task, or you can get serious and write a script if you're going to be doing the same thing often enough to justify it.

      Phone makers in general have not made sufficient intelligent effort to simply reduce the number of clicks required for most tasks, and Apple's success will, as you say, put pressure on in this area. The sad thing is that, with a bit more openness, Apple could have dealt a serious blow in the functionality arena as well (hardware constraints excepted).

      The ray of hope is that the problems you outline with the iPhone, and the problems with phones in general, are almost entirely software issues. A bit more competition could work wonders.

    92. Re:Prediction... by LarsG · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is that, with a bit more openness, Apple could have dealt a serious blow in the functionality arena as well

      Definitely. If there is one thing that's really needed in the smartphone market is a proper OS instead of top-heavy embedded OSes like Symbian. I mean, Symbian and WinMobile work but they don't compare to even a scaled down desktop OS. With a good native SDK, Apple would make many 3rd party developers very happy.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    93. Re:Prediction... by itcomesinwaves · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but that's a meaningless measure. You can name any consumer electronics product, and most "normal" people don't buy it.

    94. Re:Prediction... by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

      Monopoly.

    95. Re:Prediction... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Umm...not exactly. Here, let's try this:

      $200,000 - 18-wheeler and trailer

      ~$30k - Crew Cab pickup

      There you go, an exact equivalent for $170k less.

      Oh, wait, you mean it's not exactly the same thing?
      How about this:

      Free - phone with new plan activation
      $300-400 - used/refurb subcompact notebook
      free - mp3 playing because obv your laptop can do that
      --------
      Total: $100-200 cheaper than iphone and it has more capabilities

      I understand what you were going for, but the iphone is not the same as a lappy, even an old one. Try installing WoW on your iPhone(tm), see how far you get.

    96. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      You realize your entire argument boils down to "When he called me names, he was being mean, but when I called him names, it was true!" Even if you're right, it's petty and childish.

    97. Re:Prediction... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Pronounced fawn-bwah?

    98. Re:Prediction... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      You realize that I didn't call anyone any names, right?

      Also, calling a troll a troll isn't name-calling. It's moderation. It's what the troll tag exists for. There's a difference between having a civilized discussion between two reasonable people, where resorting to name calling is indeed petty and childish, and being attacked by an internet troll with no interest in a real dialogue, posting a comment that amounts to nothing more productive than a goatse link.

    99. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      > You realize that I didn't call anyone any names, right?

      Yes, I do. "When he called me names, he was being mean, but when I called him names, it was true!" is simply the boilerplate formation of your argument. For example:

      "When [the first AC] called [the second AC] [a fanboy], he was being mean, but when [the second AC] called [the first AC] [a troll], it was true!"

      Even if you're right, it's pretty lame point to make.

    100. Re:Prediction... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      You make the mistaken assumption that "troll" is name-calling. It's not a good thing to be, but considering that it is a moderation tag, it's a fairly direct and matter-of-fact assessment, not an insult. It's only an insult if misdirected, slung in the face of a disagreeable comment in the course of an actual discussion. Then, I agree it is childish. If, however, the post is a troll, it's a troll. What would be your morally superior way of making that statement?

      The truth value of "fanboy" doesn't have any material impact on the validity of a comment. The truth value of "troll," however, does. It is a fairly simple distinction to make. At any rate, it's not worth arguing over.

    101. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's cloudy - we can normally count on rain. If we hear thunder we can normally count on lightning. If we trip and fall we can count on smashing our noses.

      And if and when ANYTHING possibly pejorative about Apple enters the blogosphere - you can COUNT on this idiot Dave Schroeder coming out IMMEDIATELY and arguing like a pissed one legged hooker that everything is OK and Apple can do no wrong.

      Friends: this person is pathetic. He's the one who didn't like the "remove my Mac" campaign and put one of his own servers at the University of Wisconsin online - and almost got fired in the process. This person has a serious personality bent. He has to rush out right away. He doesn't know more than you - he knows LESS. The difference is he uses BIG WORDS.

      He's an idiot and a fool.

    102. Re:Prediction... by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      You make the mistaken assumption that "troll" is name-calling. It's not a good thing to be, but considering that it is a moderation tag, it's a fairly direct and matter-of-fact assessment, not an insult. This is the part of your argument where you assert that calling someone a troll is true/correct/justified.

      It's only an insult if misdirected, slung in the face of a disagreeable comment in the course of an actual discussion. This is where you draw the distinction that the other guy was being mean.

      What would be your morally superior way of making that statement? Don't make the statement at all. If someone is a troll, then others will see it without you needing to point it out. Think of the hounded celebrity who lashes out at the paparazzi and gossip columnists: who ends up looking worse for it?
    103. Re:Prediction... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      This is the part of your argument where you assert that calling someone a troll is true/correct/justified. No, it's the part where I assert that identifying a troll post and calling it so is not an insult. If you call a mentally handicapped person a retard, it's not an insult. It's wrong on several fronts, it's mean, it's in poor taste, and it's offensive, but it's not an insult, because it's an observation of fact. However, it is mean only because the recipient is deserving of sympathy. Coddling a troll post for the sake of some bizarre moral superiority points is completely pointless. Are you opposed to calling convicted felons criminals because it hurts their feelings? Is 'murderer' an unfair insult to those who kill people?

      What you're saying is that other people will know it's a troll and call it a troll and moderate it a troll, but it's wrong for someone to reply vocalizing that thought. That's utterly absurd. It's only an insult and namecalling if it's intended to belittle a person in the course of an argument. If it's an observation of fact, it doesn't qualify. "You're a troll" in response to such a post doesn't demean or belittle anyone, because there is no substance or human psychological investment TO demean or belittle in the first place.
    104. Re:Prediction... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      I'm really very sorry for you that noone with mod points has noticed this gem. I'm not sur eif I'd go with "funny", or "insightful", but it's both.

  2. Whoo-hoo by gtrubetskoy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now we can make phone calls as root!

    1. Re:Whoo-hoo by skuzzlebutt · · Score: 5, Funny

      yeah, instead of having to sudo to call my girlfriend...what a pain.

      --
      My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
    2. Re:Whoo-hoo by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 5, Funny

      Come on, this is /.

      You don't call your girlfriend, you download her videos from Pirate Bay.

      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    3. Re:Whoo-hoo by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      "Hi, Anglina, this is root. We've noticed you've been taking a lot of Brad's time lately and we were wondering if you wouldn't mind backing off a bit. Thanks."

    4. Re:Whoo-hoo by Control+Group · · Score: 5, Funny

      But then she'll make you a sandwich.

      [It's only been 18 seconds since I hit reply, and, in order to give everyone a chance to post, slashdot requires me to slow down, cowboy!]

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    5. Re:Whoo-hoo by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      But the question is: Are you on Sue's "do her" list?

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    6. Re:Whoo-hoo by Belacgod · · Score: 5, Funny
      Two hackers are struggling for control of a zombied machine...what do you call that?

      Sudo wrestling.

      Thanks, I'll be here all night.

    7. Re:Whoo-hoo by Stonent1 · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if someone might go as far as to hack the DMG file to make the phone always run in root mode and then compile a terminal to run on it. Or someone could release a so-called "enhanced" version of the OS that really had a trojan in it.

    8. Re:Whoo-hoo by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      Plus you are either married or single here. Girlfriends are more of a myth. Ugh I hate getting older.

      --
      Balderdash!
    9. Re:Whoo-hoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't call your girlfriend, you download her videos from Pirate Bay.

      Why can't you do both? Sing it with me: 8 6 7 - 5 3 0 9...

    10. Re:Whoo-hoo by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      yeah, instead of having to sudo to call my girlfriend...what a pain.


      Hey, baby! I want to log in to YOUR root tonight!
    11. Re:Whoo-hoo by bane2571 · · Score: 1

      If you could modify the DMG file to "enhance" the OS you really don't need the root password anyway as you should just be able to change the password file to make the root password whatever you wanted it to be.

    12. Re:Whoo-hoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well actually, I would rather download videos *for* her, from Pirate Bay. These days every person below 35 uses a computer at home, every day of the week in many cases.

      It's not just computer nerds who visit Slashdot, though. The group I would refer to as "IT and trend-analysis interested people" do too.

    13. Re:Whoo-hoo by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Not just phone calls!

      You can do other things with your iPhone too!

      It's so exciting!

  3. Not that big a deal by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Apple consider it important (ie: if there actually *is* a use for this, rather than just a false trail, or if they want to make people think that), all they need to do is update the values and/or system libraries in the next software update. They could even change the encryption *mechanism* to make it pretty-much un-brute-forceable if they wanted to. I doubt they need to do that though, just change it to a 31-character string with punctuation/digits etc.

    Whereas this *is* news (hell, I'd submit it!), I think a lot of people criticising the iPhone at the moment still haven't made the leap from "this is a phone. It does X,Y,Z" to "this is a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" - with all that that implies.

    Apple have said they intend to provide updates, changes, additions, etc. to the iPhone over time. They have a policy of supporting older computers with new OS releases, and I don't see why they wouldn't migrate this approach to their new market. It only *benefits* them if there are more used phones in circulation running OSX - even if it was a hand-me-down from the big-brother/sister who went and bought the new one...

    If this truly is the "third leg" of Apple's business, someone will get yelled at internally, and the next update will fix it. End of story.

    Simon.

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Not that big a deal by numbski · · Score: 1

      Now, understand something here - I don't own an iPhone.

      Now that we have that out of the way, if you have a unix system or device, and you have physical access to the system, don't know the root password, and we'll pretend for the moment that you can't drop it to single user mode, how do you get in?

      Usually? If it's a filesystem you can read, mount said filesystem on another box, change the passwd file, and update any shadow files/database files. Now, I would HOPE that apple didn't go porting the entire netinfo system over, so what we should be clamoring for is that encrypted system image. If someone can get at that filesystem, then all of this becomes moot. Edit the filesystem, update your phone. :)

      I know there's an iPhone teardown out there someplace already. There's probably a jtag on there where you could enable a serial port...

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    2. Re:Not that big a deal by Space+cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DMG's are encrypted with AES (at least I'm reasonably sure that's the case). The options on 'Disk Utility' when you select encryption are 'none', '128-bit', and '256-bit'. Given that they opted for an encrypted DMG in the first place, and that mounting this (and copying to flash) is not a common operation, I'd guess they went for the 256-bit key.

      If so, that's going to take a while to break [grin]. On Leopard (and I'm guessing Apple engineers will be using Leopard :-) there's an indication of how good the chosen password is for a DMG as you create it. I'm guessing they chose a good one, because of that warning...

      Simon

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
    3. Re:Not that big a deal by Leto-II · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd submit it!

      Is this like the geek equivalent of the frat-boy phrase, "I'd hit it!"?
      --
      Do not anger the worm.
    4. Re:Not that big a deal by spotter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you don't go after breaking the password, you go after finding where apple stored it. If it's encrypted, the iphone has to be able to decrypt it, therefore has to have the password available.

      see how the original xbox hacker (whose name I forget) captured it's encryption key by "simply" (yeah, not that simple) monitoring the bus.

    5. Re:Not that big a deal by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think a lot of people criticising the iPhone at the moment still haven't made the leap from "this is a phone. It does X,Y,Z" to "this is a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" - with all that that implies.

      Then you understand nothing. The iPhone critics are thinking "this is a fully-fledged handheld computer, running the same operating system as my laptop, that has been intentionally crippled to protect the artificial market segmentation desired by AT&T and Apple."

    6. Re:Not that big a deal by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      "I'd hit it!"?

      Speak for yourself. I'm not that desperate.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    7. Re:Not that big a deal by numbski · · Score: 1

      That would make a jtag connector that much more useful one would think then....right?

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    8. Re:Not that big a deal by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      you don't go after breaking the password, you go after finding where apple stored it. If it's encrypted, the iphone has to be able to decrypt it, therefore has to have the password available. It doesn't usually work that way. Usually passwords are one-way encrypted (or hashed), meaning there is no way to decrypt them. What the OS does it take the password you supplied, encrypt it using the same method, then compare the encrypted string to the stored encryption string of the actual password. That way even the OS itself never needs to know what the actual password is, and it is never available anywhere as clear-text.
      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    9. Re:Not that big a deal by Marton · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of people criticizing the iPhone at the moment still haven't made the leap from "this is a phone. It does X,Y,Z" to "this is a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" - with all that that implies

      No, too many people did. Like the valet that brought my car up when I was checking out from a hotel on Sunday. "Hey, you got the iPhone! Do you really think it will make laptops go away?"

      The iPhone is not the first convergence device, nor is it unique in any aspect. I don't know why people would think it is. It's just really very well done - but phones have been pretty much full-fledged computers for a while now. The first one I owned was the Nokia 7650.

      And if I did have to live without a laptop for a week, I'd take an Imate JasJar or some other QWERTY WinMo phone over the iPhone without batting an eye.

      (Yup, mod me troll, I just endorsed Microsoft product.)

    10. Re:Not that big a deal by hax0r_this · · Score: 1

      I know I haven't made that leap yet. As far as I know the iPhone is a phone that does X, Y, Z. It may be a full fledged computer in the same sense that an ipod is a full fledged computer, but since it can't do A, B, C or any other thing I want it to do except X, Y, and Z for practical purposes I find it a bit far fetched to describe it as a full fledged computer.

      On the other hand, your description of it as a "fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" might not be so bad. Masquerading means wearing a costume. The iPhone has really all it needs to become a "fully fledged computer", all that needs to be done is to rip its costume off (or just make some modifications - its UI is very attractive).

    11. Re:Not that big a deal by necro2607 · · Score: 1

      The iPhone critics are thinking "this is a fully-fledged handheld computer, running the same operating system as my laptop, that has been intentionally crippled to protect the artificial market segmentation desired by AT&T and Apple."

      Heh.. The Pocket PC Phone critics are thinking "this is a fully-fledged handheld computer, running the same operating system as my laptop, that has been intentionally crippled to protect the artificial market segmentation desired by [provider] and Microsoft."

    12. Re:Not that big a deal by spotter · · Score: 1

      You're right, but wrong about what we're talking about.

      one way hashes are useful for proving identity w/o revealing what the identity matching item is (at least if its not transmitted over a network, in those cases, ala HTTP, it's basically considered plain text equivalent).

      However, what we are talking about here is that the iPod has an encrypted disk image. If one is going to use (as presumambly the iPhone does) one has to decrypt it. As the iPhone doesn't require the user to enter the password, it has to have the password to decrypt it stored somewhere in a manner that it can use. At that point, either it hidden in the non encrypted FS (so just need to find it) or its hidden in some nvram type area on the phone, which might make it harder, but not impossible, to get at.

    13. Re:Not that big a deal by SEE · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of people criticising the iPhone at the moment still haven't made the leap from "this is a phone. It does X,Y,Z" to "this is a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone"


      Considering all the people criticizing Apple for not providing a proper SDK, for locking out third-party apps, and for not including things like chat programs and VOIP, I'd say the critics are instead those who have made the leap from "this looks like a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" to "it's so deliberately locked-down by Apple, it's not a computer, but only a phone that does X, Y, Z."
      .
    14. Re:Not that big a deal by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I thought we were still talking about the password for the root account under OS X on the iPhone. I missed the transition to decrypting a disk image, where you are correct, the decryption key (calling it a password is what confused me) must be available to the iPhone somehow.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    15. Re:Not that big a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPhone incorporates a Trusted Computing module, it is not infeasible that the keys are stored within such a module, thus making access extremely difficult.

      Or it could be unutilised hardware within the chips they're using...

    16. Re:Not that big a deal by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      Pocket PC runs a CE based OS, but saying that it is running the same OS as your laptop is probably stretching it. (It should be possible to run a CE-based OS on an i386 laptop, although more drivers would probably need to be written). However, WM5 and WM6 are not very crippled. You have full access to the filesystem, and can run arbitrary code on it. MS provides multiple SDKs for it.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    17. Re:Not that big a deal by yabos · · Score: 1

      It could be possible that iTunes gets the password from an Apple server at the time that it would be restoring the firmware. It could be over https then it's reasonably secure although I'm sure someone could still figure out how to get it.

    18. Re:Not that big a deal by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "I'd say the critics are instead those who have made the leap from "this looks like a fully-fledged computer, masquerading as a phone" to "it's so deliberately locked-down by Apple, it's not a computer, but only a phone that does X, Y, Z.""

      Those critics obviously missed the fact that it was called "iPhone", and Apple have been saying it was "a phone that does X, Y, Z" from the beginning. Moaning at a company for not delivering what they promised is criticism; complaining about them delivering precisely what they promised is whinging.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    19. Re:Not that big a deal by gig · · Score: 1

      > It could be possible that iTunes gets the password from an Apple server at the time that it would be restoring the firmware. It could be over https
      > then it's reasonably secure although I'm sure someone could still figure out how to get it.

      This wouldn't be a surprise because iTunes is supposed to maintain the phone, there is no reason for the phone to be smart enough to get itself into trouble, that is the lesson of the iPod, they left all this stuff out and put it in iTunes instead so the device was simple and easy to use, just for playback.

    20. Re:Not that big a deal by gig · · Score: 1

      It's the same delusion as the AppleTV as a $299 Mac. Then you look inside and see the part they left out was the CPU, it is all GPU in there, all video decoding, and hardly any brain.

      The iPhone gets hot when you use it as directed, and sometimes you can outrun the interface and see an artifact. It is using its full capacity and when we think about it we should not be surprised. Don't think of the still photos, look at how the interface moves around, it is working hard already.

  4. Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The password for root is "alpine"
    The "mobile" user accounts password is "dottie"

    1. Re:Passwords by techpawn · · Score: 5, Funny

      More secure than Microsoft whose default passwords are usually blank.

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool! I just managed to install Skype on my iPhone. Bye bye AT&T, Skype, here I come!

    3. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Apple is fucked. Btw "root alpine" is an anagram for "rape lotion", how appropriate.

    4. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting...

      I'd have thought it would be the other way around, since Alpine
      is a manufacturer of audio and other equipment for automobiles
      (although they apparently are in bed with Microsoft on some projects
      such as the Acura RL's navigation system).

      And Dottie was the beleaguered wife of the character in "Armageddon"
      who discovered the incoming comet, IIRC...

    5. Re:Passwords by antiNeo2000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You've got it backwards. The root password is "dottie" and the mobile password is "alpine".

    6. Re:Passwords by ceeam · · Score: 1

      If true that only means that those passwords are irrelevant and not part of security mechanism.

    7. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word

    8. Re:Passwords by catmistake · · Score: 5, Funny

      You've got it upside down.
      The password for alpine is root, the dottie user account password is mobile.

    9. Re:Passwords by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 5, Funny

      Btw "root alpine" is an anagram for "rape lotion"
      Huh? For a moment I wondered how that occurred to you, but on the other hand I don't really want to know...
      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    10. Re:Passwords by w0lo · · Score: 1

      Atleast with XP and later, an account with a blank password can not be used over the net.

    11. Re:Passwords by Rodness · · Score: 1

      *lol*

      I wish I had mod points for you :)

    12. Re:Passwords by javaxman · · Score: 1

      Great, that'll be really useful as soon as the iPhone ships with a Terminal app...

    13. Re:Passwords by uufnord · · Score: 5, Funny

      Everyone's got it upside down.

      The root password is au!dle

      The mobile password is a!++op

    14. Re:Passwords by imemyself · · Score: 1

      What MS products have blank default passwords? Off the top of my head, I can't think of a MS software that has a default password, atleast as far as major software goes. Windows asks you for it during the installation, unless you or your OEM has made a customized disk. SQL Server's sa account also does not have a default password - you specify it during the installation. If you chose to use only Windows auth for SQL Server, then it disables the sa account and I think it gives it a random password. What MS stuff are you referring to?

      --
      Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
    15. Re:Passwords by LearnToSpell · · Score: 1

      Huh? For a moment I wondered how that occurred to you, but on the other hand I don't really want to know...
      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)

      Yeah, for this case I think you'd use "...but in the other hand..."
    16. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that only took 'em what - a decade to figure out? My time sense sucks, so I could be off by years - but it's still damn sad...

    17. Re:Passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all the newbies here (must be, with the +5 funny...), apps that do anagrams are easy to come by from middle or high school coding or math assignments - although somewhat computationally expensive as permutations and the like are wont to be.

      Hence, the fairly large number of massively parallel systems that have compiled dictionaries, semantic crossrefs, etc...

      Sheesh.

      PS: Yea... please defend with the /sarcasm or /joke tag for such an inane effort of dim wit - please. It's like calling the guy with the weight problem "Tiny" or the school slut "Skippy". Not funny, just insanely and boringly done to death.

    18. Re:Passwords by scolbert · · Score: 1

      and what exactly am I supposed to do said password?
      Sammy at Personafile

  5. I'm still amazed that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    we read a story about a password to a user account on a phone and don't find that odd at all.

  6. Created for... by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...or could have been included to create a 'false trail' for hackers."

    Or it was created to generate topics on Slashdot when it's discovered...

    1. Re:Created for... by tuxic · · Score: 1

      Seriously, why not? My first impression though was Apple's intension is:

      "To make sure the hype and buzz about iPhone continues wildly after the release instead of only before the release".
      Unnecessary to let the free advertising slow down in pace, right? ;)

      --
      "People are stupid. Persons are smart" -- Agent K, MiB.
  7. Root user... by God+of+Lemmings · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps this would be somewhat alarming if there was a root
    user enabled in OS X to begin with.

    --
    Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
    1. Re:Root user... by 8-bitDesigner · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's pretty easy to enable the root user in OSX: you just assign it a password.

      Technically it's there the whole time (hell it boots the system), but you're unable to log in as root unless root has a password.

    2. Re:Root user... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regarding your sig......It does not follow.

      Sorry, I'm just a fan of Cash Cab.

  8. This Password Is Dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Al's just pining for the fjords! But it's positively Slashdotty to link to a 92.5 megabyte disk image on a front page article.

  9. Netinfo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know I'm just an AC - so this will get modded waaaaaay down, but:

    This isn't the password for the running account - you'd have to boot the phone into single-user mode. The running passwords would be stored in Netinfo.

    This is going to turn into a lot of FUD....

    1. Re:Netinfo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's a good description of how and where passwords are stored in OS X using netinfo

      http://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2006/04/2 8/os_x_passwords_2/ ....seriously - this is an issue - but even if there was a terminal app right on the main screen of the darn phone - they still couldn't log in with it. ....THEY NEED TO GET INTO NETINFO!

    2. Re:Netinfo? by ktappe · · Score: 1

      The running passwords would be stored in Netinfo.
      Not if the iPhone is running a variant of Leopard, as has been speculated. NetInfo has (finally) been supplanted in Leopard.
      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  10. Passwords by ahg · · Score: 0, Redundant

    For the curious... The article links to a another page with the passwords here

    Too lazy to look... root is "dottie" and the user mobile is "alpine".

    --

    --Aaron Greenberg

  11. I'm still amazed that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we read a story about a password to a user account on a phone and don't find that odd at all...

    1. Re:I'm still amazed that by Idaho · · Score: 1

      we read a story about a password to a user account on a phone and don't find that odd at all...


      Well, it runs OS X, so BSD. Many embedded devices (e.g. wireless access points, routers, modems, etc.) run Linux, so naturally have root accounts too.

      Indeed I don't find it odd at all.
      --
      Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
    2. Re:I'm still amazed that by tuxic · · Score: 1

      [Irony]Welcome to Slashdot. Since this is your first time here, have a look around and then consider registering, etc, etc [/Irony]
      Couldn't help it ;-)

      --
      "People are stupid. Persons are smart" -- Agent K, MiB.
  12. Mmmmm, honey..... by Itninja · · Score: 2, Funny

    "...or could have been included to create a 'false trail' for hackers."
    If this really is a honeypot 'password', that'd be pretty cool. They should have some code that will covertly download the entire Jim Neighbors catalog whenever the root password is accessed.
    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  13. phew by packetmon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Loaded 2 passwords with 2 different salts (Standard DES [64/64 BS])
    alpine (mobile)
    dottie (root)
    guesses: 2 time: 0:00:00:16 (3) c/s: 551883 trying: royour - b1o2w8
    For a second I was imagining the hoRRORble marketing money they would have had to spend if they would have cracked it and it would have read:

    windows (mobile)
    blows (root)

    or

    gates (mobile)
    sucks (root)
    1. Re:phew by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Or

      netscapeengineers (mobile)
      areweenies (root)

    2. Re:phew by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Or:

      carlsagan (mobile)
      isaprick (root)
      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    3. Re:phew by 2sheds · · Score: 1

      Or

      butthead (mobile)
      astronomer (root)

      By the time it ships.

      --

      Absit Invidia
  14. root disabled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple ships their computers with root disabled by default. I'd be very surprised if the phone wasn't the same. That would be quite a blunder on apple's part. If its not enabled, the password does you no good anyhow. I of course would love to see some useful hacks for this device as I'm typing on it right now. I'm sure the iPhone is a true hackers dream device. Please bring me a terminal app!

    1. Re:root disabled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think you'll find an OpenMoko linux mobile+wifi phone is a "true hackers dream device", not an anaemic locked-down lump like an iphone.

    2. Re:root disabled? by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      You may find that it's a "true hackers dream device" when you can actually find one.

      As it has been delayed until October at the earliest, I guess we'll just have to wait to see...

    3. Re:root disabled? by tgatliff · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would be impressed if korn is running on any stty, as there really should be no need for running a shell on a production unit. I am not going to believe this "trying to throw off" business, though... That USB interface is just way too handy to not do terminal interfacing during development/testing... The trick is understanding how they were interfacing to it, though. I strongly suspect that it is just a matter of time before someone invests the time to figure it out...

      In my opinion, the biggest news here is not as how it was reported, but rather that people now can easily modify the default image and try booting it on the iPhone...

    4. Re:root disabled? by djh101010 · · Score: 1

      In my opinion, the biggest news here is not as how it was reported, but rather that people now can easily modify the default image and try booting it on the iPhone...
      Hmmm... drop in an init script or two to kick off a terminal window? is there a terminal.app anywhere, or X11 hooks? I should download the image and play around a bit...
    5. Re:root disabled? by furball · · Score: 1

      What happened? Not enough interested hackers to hack a working phone together?

    6. Re:root disabled? by galimore · · Score: 1

      It's no fun if the door's left unlocked. ;)

      Where's the challenge?

      Indeed, the iPhone is more of a target because we know Apple doesn't want us getting into it.

      Linux is *SO* 1999. ;)

    7. Re:root disabled? by galimore · · Score: 1

      No.

      I find it quite humorous that people haven't realized that Apple is positioning itself for embedded devices. The iPhone runs "OS X 1.0" which is not the same as "Mac OS X". Yes, it's still *NIX. Yes, it is based off of the same technologies as Mac OS X... but it's an embedded OS. It is to Mac OS X what Windows Mobile is to Windows.

      So to answer your question, no there's no terminal application. There is a shell (/usr/bin/sh).

      And no, there aren't any X11 libraries or anything like that.

      It's a very stripped down OS.

    8. Re:root disabled? by PhireN · · Score: 1

      not really, We now have the key, but its no use without a door to put it in.

    9. Re:root disabled? by huckda · · Score: 1
      they used hyperterminal on a windows '98 box...

      That USB interface is just way too handy to not do terminal interfacing ...
      --
      "Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
  15. Re:Mmmmm, honey.....(Oops, should be Nabors) by andawyr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah? That'd be great, since I *love* Jim Nabors...

  16. Is someone really trying... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    ...to run a smear campaign against Apple? I'm sure this will get reported with all the fury of the iTMS metadata, which was blown up huge in media yet those I know who uses it merely shrugged. I'm sure we'll get all the "iPhones are root'ed" with all due reference to what the root account is on a Mac, yet only with a tiny mention that you can't actually do anything with it on the iPhone. Apple and Macs have always been harassed for being too expensive or underpowered or one-buttoned etc. but there's always been an ounce of truth in there, right now it seems like there's fake grassroot campaigns of FUD, FUD and FUD...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Is someone really trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HOw do you know they can't do anything with it? Operators can upgrade/change software
      over-the-air (OTA) without your knowledge. Perhaps this 'account' allows for silent
      install of firmware updates. If operators can do it, 3rd parties can too.

    2. Re:Is someone really trying... by dcskier · · Score: 1

      There are always going to be fanboys and haters. We've heard for weeks from the mac fanboys who have had 2-3 articles on the front page every day about how amazing the iPhone will be. And I'm sure for the next week or two we'll have a few posts about the flaws in the device. Macs get harassed for certain things just as Windows is harassed for nearly everything and even Linux is harassed for certain aspects.

      I don't think there's a grass roots campaign conspiracy running against the iPhone, but I'm sure you will now be hearing from all of the haters as they've wanted for their day to rant on it, and each flaw will be blown out of proportion just as each feature was hyped before the release.

      Two biases don't make a right... but hey this is slashdot.

    3. Re:Is someone really trying... by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      Yes, cause any negative news story about apple is obviously a lie.

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
  17. Apple Security == Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another shining example of how terrible the security with mac related products actually is.

    1. Re:Apple Security == Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow this is HUGE news! Sure glad you posted it!

    2. Re:Apple Security == Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing that isn't a myth: Apple is a filthy DRM merchant.

    3. Re:Apple Security == Myth by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      If you'd actually understood what the document you'd linked to was saying, you'd have realised that it was about using custom hardware for brute-force attacks on a variety of stuff, including some things in MacOS X, but all of the Mac ones require having physical access to the machine in question (or its hard disk). Instead of showing that Macs are insecure (as you'd obviously hoped to do), you've thus ended up proving the exact opposite, i.e. that their passwords and FileVault (optional file encryption) cannot be broken using software alone in any reasonable time frame.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
  18. Egads by Reason58 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I hope this thing isn't phoning home. Literally.

    1. Re:Egads by another_fanboy · · Score: 1

      I hope this thing isn't phoning home. Literally.

      So long as it does not charge for the call.

  19. Re:Oh GOD. WHEN WILL THE FUD END???????? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

    Do not try and end the FUD... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no FUD.

  20. Why this won't do any good by sjonke · · Score: 3, Funny

    The article left out the detail that the reason these passwords won't do you any good is that you only get 3 tries to enter them before your locked out. Goop lick.

    --
    --- What?
    1. Re:Why this won't do any good by BobMcD · · Score: 1


      Wait, so I only get three chances to input a password I already know?

      DAMMIT ALL TO HELL!!! THAT'S COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE!!!

    2. Re:Why this won't do any good by Random832 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it was intended as a subtle dig at the usability of the iPhone "keyboard".

      --
      We've secretly replaced Slashdot with new Folgers Crystals - let's see if it notices.
    3. Re:Why this won't do any good by iabervon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, the reason these passwords won't do you any good is that you don't get any chances to enter them, because it doesn't have a login prompt on anything that's exposed in production phones.

    4. Re:Why this won't do any good by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      Actually, the reason these passwords won't do you any good is that you don't get any chances to enter them, because it doesn't have a login prompt on anything that's exposed in production phones.

      As far as you know . . . Case in point: Rockstar. No way in normal usage to get there, could be the same with the iPhone. Just because you don't see it in normal usage of the phone, does not preclude it being there.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    5. Re:Why this won't do any good by iabervon · · Score: 1

      If you can make some change to the running system image so that it runs code that's not normally accessible, it probably doesn't matter if you know the root password or not, since you must have already found a way to jump to arbitrary code to get there in the first place.

    6. Re:Why this won't do any good by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      As far as you know . . .

      I wouldn't be surprised if there's a way to hookup a serial cable to the board and get a terminal... Hmm... don't these devices have some sort of a factory override mode?

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

  21. Passwords on my device by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Shouldn't be hidden from me anyway, its MY phone, i bought it, its MINE.. If i want to do something stupid and brick it in the process, its my choice. ( as long as i don't go and cry to Apple for a free replacement )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Passwords on my device by mr_spatula · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it's really YOURS, then why do you have to activate it via AT&T before it can be used, eh?

    2. Re:Passwords on my device by Achoi77 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it was just tucked away under the rug because Apple didn't have the time to bother to spend additional money removing it completely. If Apple (or whomever is speaking on it's behalf) is telling the truth and truly it doesn't really do anything, then it's just some clutter. Besides, what's with the passwords anyways? Using whole words, one that starts with the first letter of the alphabet? Not a single number? It's obviously not meant to be hidden that deep.

    3. Re:Passwords on my device by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats because USA nickel-and-dime culture sucks.

      Ill probably get the European model. Unlocked from any carrier, and supports better protocols.

      --
    4. Re:Passwords on my device by galimore · · Score: 1

      Right then.

      Let's boycott the iPhone by buying up all of them, and then we'll show AT&T a lesson by *NOT* activating them.... buahahahahaha

    5. Re:Passwords on my device by voisine · · Score: 1

      The hardware is yours... the software is licensed and an at&t service plan is a stipulation of the license. You can disassemble it and use it for parts if you want.

    6. Re:Passwords on my device by srvivn21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shouldn't be hidden from me anyway, its MY phone, i bought it, its MINE.. If i want to do something stupid and brick it in the process, its my choice. ( as long as i don't go and cry to Apple for a free replacement ) It is your phone. If you want to brick it (or sell it, or use it as a hammer), feel free.

      The software that comes with the phone (of which these hidden passwords are a part of) is not yours. You are licensed to use it, post activation.
    7. Re:Passwords on my device by HouseArrest420 · · Score: 1

      Tell that to all the voip service's where you actually buy the router! You know what I'm talking about? Hopefully you do or you'll be lost..........and its not my fault. Your trudging thru the internet now, at least take the time to inform yourself on why you can put another phone number from ATT onto port 2 of your vonage router when vonage only uses 1 port (unless you got 2 numbers). Vonage wont give out the password for the 2nd port (but this is incredibly old so if you dont know where to look give me your soul), when you as a consumer shelled out 60+ bucks at the start of your service to buy the damn thing.

      --
      This is Slashdot! Give me the latest gadget, bug, or OS project! This ain't english class so don't confuse the two!
    8. Re:Passwords on my device by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I wasnt talking about getting free service from ATT, just having full access to the hardware that i bought.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:Passwords on my device by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't be hidden from me anyway,

      Indeed. What's surprising is how folks manage to praise apple that this isn't a security flaw. I'd really -wish- for this to be a security flaw, to unlock this damn device...

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    10. Re:Passwords on my device by toxicity69 · · Score: 1

      Ill probably get the European model. Unlocked from any carrier, and supports better protocols. Right on. Just make sure the phone is compliant with your local cell networks' bands. I'm sure they will be, hell, I just bought a new Motorola SLVR here in the states and it says its tri band. Just be sure though.
  22. Image downloading?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy cow! I cannot believe someone linked to the restore image archive and that it hasn't been pulled from the apple site yet! Aye carumba.

    I'll just hang onto this file for a while until someone writes an emulator... then who knows if anything good or interesting could be done with it...?

  23. Custom software by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, probably this is the default phone password which the phone uses to "autologin" into itself on startup, and as such isn't useful for "hacking" into the phone remotely.

    But you should consider: a) the phone doesn't support custom software b) thousands of geeks who bought the phone want to write apps for it.

    Maybe knowing the root login is a tiny step in that direction, if you get what I mean. I have the feeling we'll be seeing AT&T disabling remotely phones that have been hacked with custom apps. Same as MS did with modded XBOX360.

    1. Re:Custom software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, probably this is the default phone password which the phone uses to "autologin" into itself on startup, and as such isn't useful for "hacking" into the phone remotely.

      But you should consider: a) the phone doesn't support custom software b) thousands of geeks who bought the phone want to write apps for it.

      Maybe knowing the root login is a tiny step in that direction, if you get what I mean. I have the feeling we'll be seeing AT&T disabling remotely phones that have been hacked with custom apps. Same as MS did with modded XBOX360.


      MS didn't didn't disable any XBoxen, they disabled the Live accounts of users that were using a modified box.

      So, mod the pants off the iCrap all you want, just don't expect to connect to anyone else's network after you've done so.

    2. Re:Custom software by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      MS didn't ban live user accounts or disable the 360, they banned the specific modded 360 itself from using the Live service. Your Live account is still valid and usable on any other 360 in the world that isn't banned.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:Custom software by nermaljcat · · Score: 1

      Does the phone support J2ME? I'm no J2ME expert, but if you can access Runtime, you should be able to executes system commands. Something like: Runtime.getRuntime().exec("echo \"alpine\" | su - "); maybe??

      Is there no remote login? I'm assuming it sits on your LAN via wifi? ... if only it had an SSH server running... wonder what a nmap would turn up. If iPhones had been released in Australia, I probably would have bought one. We have to wait until next year.

      It won't be long until someone hacks it, I told my wife it'll be done within a week. Then you may be able to unlock it (and send it to Australia ;-) )

    4. Re:Custom software by dabraun · · Score: 1

      Maybe knowing the root login is a tiny step in that direction, if you get what I mean. I have the feeling we'll be seeing AT&T disabling remotely phones that have been hacked with custom apps. Same as MS did with modded XBOX360.

      MS never disabled 360s remotely for being modded; they cut off access to live. In a way this is comprable to AT&T cutting off access to the cell network - the difference being that an xbox without live is still useful (just less so), a cell phone without cell access ... well I guess you can use it as a PDA with 802.11x support. Then there's the fact that there are tons of windows mobile phones on AT&Ts network running custom software and AT&T isn't about to cut them off. That alone makes any argument that the iPhone can't have arbitrary custom software because it's on the cell network a complete joke.
  24. as there is a root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then I guess it is a multiuser system, then several people should be able to login, ah..., make phone call, on the same phone simultaneously. God, this is revolutionary! I have never seen a phone like this.

  25. Theories by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The article theorizes it may be left over from development work, or could have been included to create a 'false trail' for hackers.

    Even better, I suspect this is the major reason Leopard was delayed. iPhone's software was completed all along: all those OSX developers were assigned to create numerous false trails for hackers, on the iPhone.

  26. I'm wondering if it's intentional by jmichaelg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm wondering if perhaps Apple wants the phone cracked. AT&T doesn't control activation, Apple does. If the phone is cracked then people could buy an iPhone and if another carrier was willing, activate it with some other carrier than AT&T. There are lots of people out there who can't stand AT&T so it's not as if we're only talking about 2 or 3 hackers doing this.

    Jobs could play the innocent claiming that hackers did it all the while happy that yet another iPhone went out the door.

    1. Re:I'm wondering if it's intentional by Racing_Turtles · · Score: 1

      Actually, AT&T and Apple jointly "control" the iPhone activation process. Activation may be *initiated* within the iTunes UI, but the backend APIs absolutely touch AT&T systems. How else would the device operate on the AT&T network? How would monthly invoices get generated?

      Besides, do you really believe that AT&T's legal team would overlook such a gaping hole in the contract that would leave them unprotected from such a scheme? Finally, remember that Apple has a vested interest in an exclusive partnership for iPhone: it was Apple who first pitched the deal to Verizon (who passed), then to Cingular, which has since become AT&T.

      In summary, No way Jose.

  27. Re:Oh GOD. WHEN WILL THE FUD END???????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no Dana, only Fuud!

  28. from full-disclosure by shivan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Re: [Full-disclosure] iPhone Security Settings

    From: Erik Tews (e_tewscdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
    Date: Sun Jul 01 2007 - 17:20:37 CDT

        * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

    Am Montag, den 02.07.2007, 00:07 +0200 schrieb Fabio Pietrosanti (naif):
    > There are a couple of user with their password:
    >
    > root:XUU7aqfpey51o:0:0::0:0:System Administrator:/var/root:/bin/sh
    > mobile:/smx7MYTQIi2M:501:0::0:0:Mobile User:/var/mobile:/bin/sh
    >
    > Does someone have some time to arrange a quick john session (should be
    > quick)?

    Loaded 2 passwords with 2 different salts (Standard DES [64/64 BS])
    alpine (mobile)
    dottie (root)
    guesses: 2 time: 0:00:00:16 (3) c/s: 551883 trying: royour - b1o2w8

    Yes, it was quick

  29. they've never done it for iPods... by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apple have said they intend to provide updates, changes, additions, etc. to the iPhone over time. They have a policy of supporting older computers with new OS releases, and I don't see why they wouldn't migrate this approach to their new market.

    Except they don't do it for iPods. Each new "generation" of the iPod has run a different firmware *and* had different capabilities, like being able to search. The older iPods never got the functionality of the newer ones, ever. Clickwheel iPods can't "search", nor do they get the newer iPod games, etc. This is just like digital camera manufacturers, home network gear makers, etc. Very, very, very rarely do they take advantage of the firmware updates to increase functionality in any way. Why should they, when they can make you but version N+1?

    Most of the time they update the iPod firmware only to give it compatibility with the latest iTunes, and these days, the only updates to iTunes are security fixes and bloat (the glorified pedometer, Apple TV, the iPhone, etc. Anyone else remember when you could sync contacts and appointments onto your iPod through iSync?) My second-gen nano (or Mini, or whatever the hell it's called these days) still crashes 50% of the time when I go to play a podcast after syncing it with my mac. I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to fix it.

    1. Re:they've never done it for iPods... by voidptr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except they don't do it for iPods. Each new "generation" of the iPod has run a different firmware *and* had different capabilities, like being able to search. The older iPods never got the functionality of the newer ones, ever. Clickwheel iPods can't "search", nor do they get the newer iPod games, etc. This is just like digital camera manufacturers, home network gear makers, etc. Very, very, very rarely do they take advantage of the firmware updates to increase functionality in any way. Why should they, when they can make you but version N+1?

      Most iPods have radically different hardware than the previous generation too. In addition, there's some accounting rules that come into play with adding functions to something you already shipped and booked the revenue for. Once I've sold you a widget, if I spend any more engineering time to add something to it, I have to find revenue that pays for that somewhere. It's not a problem with OS X, because the $129 Leopard upgrade pays for the engineering in Leopard, not the revenue they already booked and reported when I bought the Mac in the first place.

      Apple stated on their last quarter conference call they're changing the way they book AppleTV and iPhone revenues to spread it out over 8 quarters, so they don't have that problem. Even though they get $600 today for an iPhone sold, they don't actually put the whole thing in the books right away as recognized revenue, they apply it over the next two years to ongoing engineering for existing units. Exactly what they'll do with that ability remains to be seen, but they've at least publicly stated their intent to improve the platform for early adopters.
      --
      This .sig for unofficial government use only. Official use subject to $500 fine.
    2. Re:they've never done it for iPods... by CatPieMan · · Score: 1

      I've only ever seen a previous version get the newer features once.

      It happened w/ the Nikon D70 when the D70s came out. Nikon released a firmware upgrade that brought the D70 up to par w/ the D70s, aside from the obviously larger screen the D70s had.

      Source: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042002nikon70f irmware.asp

      --
      ---You're all I need, When the water runs deep, You're all I need, Now I cry my soul to sleep -- Collective Soul, Needs
    3. Re:they've never done it for iPods... by include($dysmas) · · Score: 1

      Most iPods have radically different hardware ... "Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of."

      s/safe/radically
    4. Re:they've never done it for iPods... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pentax did roughly the same... even after discontinuing the istDS, they added more complete continuous auto-focus support.

    5. Re:they've never done it for iPods... by schalliol · · Score: 1

      There is no such accounting rule! If I develop a product improvement and don't sell it, I record the expense. It might be at a loss when compared to revenue, but that's really the extent of it. Sure, it's good to sell the product after the development, but I certainly don't have to.

  30. Why root on OSX by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    1) OSX runs fine without enabling root. indeed enabling root is discouraged. One has full access to root via sudo -s, so actually creating the root user is only a hazard and has no high value in OSX. Even if sudo gets borked you can still get in to root via booting in single user mode.

    So I wonder why they enabled root? perhaps when connecting from another computer to run a command via ssh it's a lot fewer steps to type. (don't have to enter the password twice). So I but the idea this is left over from development.

    2) However this does bring up some good questions. just how do they manage this phone? Does the local computer need to know the password to get into modify things. Does it mount as a hard disk with write privs to the attached comuter?

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Why root on OSX by JadeNB · · Score: 1

      So I wonder why they enabled root? perhaps when connecting from another computer to run a command via ssh it's a lot fewer steps to type. (don't have to enter the password twice). So I but the idea this is left over from development.
      The article says that there's no mechanism for logging in, so that it's not even clear that these accounts do exist. (Maybe that's what you're saying, but I can't understand the last sentence.)
    2. Re:Why root on OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I want to know too. Reports on the web say that all apps on iPhone runs as root. Why? Crash dumps from the mail and Safari showed uid 0. Does running apps on non-admin/non-root account make the performance unacceptable or something? It seems contrary to what Apple does on the desktop OS.

  31. Scheduling algorithm? by benhocking · · Score: 1

    Is that supposed to be a scheduling algorithm? If so, are we looking at Round Robin, Earliest Deadline First, Least Slack Time, or Fair Share scheduling?

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
    1. Re:Scheduling algorithm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is slashdot - you mean "least sack time" with round robin.

  32. Like MacOS X? by iso-cop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the iPhone OS handles root in the same manner as MacOS X, then the root user would have to be enabled somehow before anyone could use the account anyway. So, show me how to hack the password and enable the account, then write an article that is more than FUD.

    1. Re:Like MacOS X? by simong · · Score: 1

      Root is only really needed for system updates and drivers that modify the kernel, so it won't be necessary at the moment and system updates will probably use sudo, which will be set to be transparent for the 'mobile' user. I'm sure someone will come up with the hacks *looks at watch* Real Soon Now.

  33. Default OSX security by ekimminau · · Score: 1

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/security/

    http://developer.apple.com/internet/security/secur ityintro.html

    http://docs.info.apple.com/articl e.html?artnum=106439

    http://www.vnutz.com/conte nt/exploit/Nessus_Apple_OSX_Server_Default_Vulnera bilities.html

    :)

    --
    Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
  34. Law-abiding guarantee or wishful thinking? by BlackCobra43 · · Score: 1

    Is there any sort of law in the EU that prevents mobiles from being restricted to a single carrier? I simply don't see Apple switching to an open model "out of the kindness of their hearts" or some such as it's not nearly as profitable- and I imagine that AT&T would be mighty miffed when the Euro iPhones are imported to the US....and promptly activated with other carriers for their better service and lower price.

    --
    I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
    1. Re:Law-abiding guarantee or wishful thinking? by Marton · · Score: 2, Informative

      No there isn't. Carriers in the EU have been typically too small to try and claim exclusivity in the first place. With Vodaphone and T-Mobile that's changed recently, but Nokia is still doing its best to maintain its brand and the carrier-independence of their products. They've been - fairly successfully - doing the same in the US as well. The iPhone precedent sure isn't helping their cause though.

    2. Re:Law-abiding guarantee or wishful thinking? by J0nne · · Score: 1

      In Belgium it is. You can't sell a phone and force people to use a certain carrier. I'm curious what will happen to the iPhone here then (I guess Apple can afford to just skip Belgium)...

  35. I truly would like to see this phone on other nets by swschrad · · Score: 1

    only very slightly because I work for one. mostly because I wouldn't want to be tied to EDGE.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  36. Emulation/Virtualization by CompMD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So since the firmware restore image is out in the open, is it possible to emulate an ARM CPU in QEMU and boot the image? That would be interesting to find out.

    1. Re:Emulation/Virtualization by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's one thing to emulate a CPU, it's quite another to emulate a CPU and all of the peripherals that are attached to it. It's also another stretch to get all of them configured in such a way that what you're emulating is binary compatible with the host firmware. Especially if you have peripherals sitting on the same die as the ARM processor running off of asynchronous clock domains.

      I think there's a company that managed to develop a software emulator for TI omap chips...I never had a chance to try it and see if it works.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    2. Re:Emulation/Virtualization by Slashcrap · · Score: 1

      It's one thing to emulate a CPU, it's quite another to emulate a CPU and all of the peripherals that are attached to it. It's also another stretch to get all of them configured in such a way that what you're emulating is binary compatible with the host firmware.

      One word - Dynamips.

      Emulates the MIPs or PPC cores in Cisco 2600/3600/7200 series routers and a number of Ethernet/Serial multiport add-in cards. Runs unmodified IOS binaries on your PC.

      So it's not impossible, just difficult. Undocumented proprietary ASICs make it a lot harder, assuming they actually need to be emulated to achieve your goals.

    3. Re:Emulation/Virtualization by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      Right...not impossible, but very difficult/time consuming.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    4. Re:Emulation/Virtualization by CompMD · · Score: 1

      If there are people who can (and have) done it for numerous video game console platforms, I'm putting my money on somebody successfully getting the iPhone emulated. With a million code monkeys at a million keyboards...

  37. Typical Apple User Behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful
    Apple jehadis are in a class of their own. Queuing to get a device of questionable merit is the typical expected behavior of the imac-ipod-iphone owning iFaggots.

    Steve Jobs could collect organic waste from septic tanks, and there will be a stampede of these degenerates who'll not only buy it, but then go online and crow in detail about how good the shit actually tastes.

  38. hmm... GPL? by Woody · · Score: 1, Interesting

    grab the restore image, append a .zip, unzip it.

    strings 694-5259-38.dmg | grep -i gpl
    ...
    (www.memtest86.com). At the time of writing it is free (GPLd).


    yes, it's just memtest, yes we can get it on our own... but apple, where's the modified source?

    there are many more interesting(?) things you can glean from running strings on the non-encrypted but non-functioning (for me) disk image.

  39. john output by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [billyg@microsoft iphone]# cat passwd
    root:XUU7aqfpey51o:0:0::0:0:System Administrator:/var/root:/bin/sh
    mobile:/smx7MYTQIi2M:501:0::0:0:Mobile User:/var/mobile:/bin/sh
    daemon:*:1:1::0:0:System Services:/var/root:XUU7aqfpey51o
    unknown:*:99:99::0:0:Unknown User:/var/empty:/usr/bin/false

    [billyg@microsoft iphone]# john passwd
    Created directory: /root/.john
    Loaded 2 password hashes with 2 different salts (Traditional DES [64/64 BS MMX])
    alpine (mobile)
    dottie (root)
    guesses: 2 time: 0:00:01:05 (3) c/s: 328840 trying: dewMso - dotty1

  40. Re:hmm... GPL? by Woody · · Score: 1

    Oh yeah! Apple: please don't sue me. I like you, okay? Thanks!

  41. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1, 2, 3, 4, 5? That's stupidest combination I've ever heard! It's something an idiot would put on his iPhone.

  42. iPhone hardware and OS X by jshriverWVU · · Score: 1

    Since this an OS X system, what kind of CPU does the iPhone use? Couldn't you use these restore images in a PPC or Mac emulator to recreate a basic system? Mostly depends on the arch of the phone.

    1. Re:iPhone hardware and OS X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Since this an OS X system, what kind of CPU does the iPhone use? Couldn't you use these restore images in a PPC or Mac emulator to recreate a basic system? Mostly depends on the arch of the phone.


      It's an arm. You could do that, yes. Or you could go back and play some more Wii, as that has as much common with the topic of this article as your post has.

  43. Ummmm..... by HeavyDevelopment · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you have spent $350 on an iPod, $2500 on a MacBook Pro and $3500 on a Mac Pro--$500 to $600 on an iPhone is peanuts. Yummmm.....that Kool aid sure tastes good!!!

    --
    Badges!?! We don't need no stinking badges!
    1. Re:Ummmm..... by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Funny

      Once again, though, my OP is correct. When I see someone carrying a MacBook Pro(tm), wearing an iPod(tm) and talking on an iPhone(tm), the *last* thing I think is, "That is a normal person."

    2. Re:Ummmm..... by aichpvee · · Score: 2, Funny

      The *first* thing you think is, "that is a stupid person." Am I right?

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    3. Re:Ummmm..... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      With an iPod and an iPhone at the same time? Being in close proximity to Cupertino, the first thing I would think is...

      "So, does this person work in IL2 or IL6?"

      :-D

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Ummmm..... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Sadly, no. My *first* thought upon seeing such a person is, "How can I also seperate them from some of their obviously excess cash?" (Legally, like apple does it, not like a mugger)

  44. SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    also looks like it has some kind of SQL server, or at least a client designed to connect to one:

    SELECT name, rootpage, sql, %d FROM '%q'.%s WHERE %s

    1. Re:SQL by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      also looks like it has some kind of SQL server, or at least a client designed to connect to one:

      SELECT name, rootpage, sql, %d FROM '%q'.%s WHERE %s

      Or a library that somehow supports SQL queries against a database, even if the database code is built into the library rather than running in a server, such as, oh, say, SQLite, as per this crash log which says one of the shared libraries MobileMail was using was "/usr/lib/libsqlite3.0.dylib"?

  45. Paris Hilton by jmickle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone find her iphone yet? Id like to see another movie....

  46. wait a minute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is this other user: 'NSA', password GODMODE!

  47. The real test is ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... being able to successfully activate it and use it on a different phone provider.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  48. "dottie" & "alpine" by circusboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    there was a story about this yesterday somewhere...
    ah,http://launchr.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphones-pas sword-is-dottie-and-alpine.html

    --
    -- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
  49. what took so long? by andypflueger · · Score: 1

    LOL, what took them hackers so long

    --
    Long live the penguin...Linux rulez!
  50. Probably not useful though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    According to other posts, the password file starts with

    # Note that this file is consulted when the system is running in single-user
    # mode. At other times this information is handled by lookupd. By default,
    # lookupd gets information from NetInfo, so this file will not be consulted
    # unless you have changed lookupd's configuration.
    Which is consistent with the way regular OS X functions. So it's likely that the cracked passwords are completely useless unless you've cracked open your iphone and found a serial port or some other way to get a boot console.
    1. Re:Probably not useful though by Megane · · Score: 1

      So all I have to do is set up a NetInfo server on my MacBook, go to Starbucks waiting for suckers with iPhones, and then I can r00t them?

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  51. So... by shish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So we have a username and password, great. Now where's the login prompt?

    --
    I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    1. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This returns nothing:

      $ strings 694-5259-38.dmg | grep -i login:

      I would have expected to find a "login:" in the output. At least /bin/login does on Linux.

    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if a login prompt is the only way to get access eh?

  52. Remember Bob's three tries? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1

    "You seem to be having problems remembering your password. Do you want to set a new password?"

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  53. Re:hmm... GPL? by Pius+II. · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why don't you post those lines in the context they belong, as an advisory comment in the (free as in free) bzip2 source? Oh yeah, because you prefer to badmouth people instead of checking your facts.
    For the record, here's the source.

  54. Cleared up by OriginalArlen · · Score: 1
    Useless? Not at all - the write-up finally cleared up something that's been bugging me since 1996:

    root [is] the name of the privileged administration account on UNIX based systems.

    Oh of course, it's all so obvious once you know, isn't it? I always wondered why no-one else's init scripts included a

    sudo find / -type f -exec chmod 777 {} \;

    ...line.

    --

    Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
  55. Re:3g / Vodafone? by jonwil · · Score: 1

    They may well just be names from a standardized list of mobile carriers (such a list exists in the plmn_text_table.bin file from my Motorola L6)

  56. How did an Australian get an iPhone in three days? by Anarchitect_in_oz · · Score: 1

    I mean i know we are the 53rd state politically while Howard is PM.
    But Still no iPhone down here.

    S/he must of hacked the phone on the plane on the way home or similar.

    --
    "Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
  57. Just mount the stinkin' file system already... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/forums/viewtopic.php ?p=14612#14612

    I'm sure someone else has probably figured this out by now but it's pretty easy to mount the firmware image under linux. First get yourself a copy of the firmware from the Apple site and then:

    Code:

    $ unzip iPhone1,1_1.0_1A543a_Restore.ipsw
    $ dd if=694-5259-38.dmg bs=2048 skip=1 of=/tmp/iphone.img
    # mount /tmp/iphone.img /mnt -o loop

    Then:

    Code:

    $ ls -l /mnt
    total 4
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9 2007-06-26 20:40 bin
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2 2007-05-22 22:54 dev
    lrwxr-xr-x 1 root 80 11 2007-06-26 20:40 etc -> private/etc
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2 2007-05-22 18:05 mnt1
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2 2007-05-22 18:05 mnt2
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3 2007-06-19 17:42 private
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8 2007-06-26 20:40 sbin
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4 2007-06-26 20:40 System
    drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 7 2007-06-26 20:40 usr

    1. Re:Just mount the stinkin' file system already... by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

      Thus pointing out that this is just the miniroot image.

      A UNIX machine can't boot without a root file system, and so when in recovery mode, you usually mount a RAM disk as the root image.

      That's what this unencrypted image with these passwords is.

      I don't think it's knows that the passwords when the unit is fully booted are the same as those in the miniroot. So it's not really valid to say "iPhone root password hacked in three days", at least as long as you can't verify that the passwords are reused when booted fully from a true mass storage volume (the internal NAND?).

      --
      http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  58. I thought we already knew... by arashi+no+garou · · Score: 1

    I thought we already knew what the password was: Jesus!

  59. how about a dashboard widget? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've looked around a bit and haven't seen anything yet, but does anyone else think a dashboard widget that mimics as many of the iPhone's features as possible would be pretty neat? And probably be a nifty way to get more people exposed to most of its features?

    Or, has anyone _seen_ such a widget anywhere?

  60. I think I know how to decrypt the encrypted dmg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can mount the first image in Linux and there are ssl keys that I believe are used to mount the encrypted file system. I don't have a Mac but if I did I would use "hdiutil" along with those keys to mount the encrypted dmg image.

    See:
    http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/forums/viewtopic.php ?t=2081

  61. iPhone password is trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once i got the hash from the people @ hackint0sh.org i cracked the root password for the iPhone with john in 41 seconds, it is only simple DES, and is 6 chars, all lower case (the root password for the iPhone is.....

    'dottie'

    now, wasn't that exciting. Now someone just needs to figure out what to do with it
    )

  62. Re:How did an Australian get an iPhone in three da by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He didn't need an iPhone. He just looked into the restore image.

  63. Re:hmm... GPL? by Woody · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe because I was walking out of work to enjoy a nice day off tomorrow and managed to see this story before grabbing the file and doing a quick strings/grep for GPL? Way to ascribe malice there, though. Thanks a ton - hope that attitude works out for you.

    Mea culpa, but no need to be a jerk.

  64. iPhone root hacked by MattWeeks · · Score: 1

    This phone has the potential of being extremely useful if we can figure out how to load apps onto the platform... and importantly, if developers can figure out how to make the system work so that we can load our favorite and most useful apps. One of my pet peeves about converged devices is that they come with pathetically inadequate onboard storage... The onboard 2 or 4 gigs of storage is a good start. I don't know what the iPhone ships with as far as actual memory.. but I know that my pocketPC device is a piece of garbage... So I have high hopes that our community will hack away until it becomes simply a matter of following a cookbook to load up my favorite apps (business apps mostly). Then the only issue will be waiting until someone figures out how to "unlock" the thing so it will run on another network.... anything faster than the dreaded "edge" network. Apple already caved on this with their AppleTV. They at first had no direct Web connectivity except via their walled garden iTunes store. Then enough people downloaded the hack for YouTube "Tubes" I think, and suddenly Apple was issuing a press release that they had "integrated" YouTube access into the product as a "feature." Talk about revisionist. To be sure, this is not "normal" Apple behavior, and it may signal that they are finally figuring out that consumers will quickly abandon even the uber-cool Apple brand if it shuts them off from reasonable functionality. Perhaps someone is finally getting to Steve, and explaining why he is still at the fringe of the PC market when he could have *owned* the PC market... He can start over with this new world of video and mobile entertainment (better said: "wireless entertainment") which, without using hyperbole, could reasonably be considered his to lose.... Not Bill's. At least if you consider the Zune versus the iPod and the Windows Mobile versus anything running an apple mobile OS... and of course the hand-in-glove workings of the iTunes + iPhone + AppleTV combinations.... now if we could just unlock iTunes so that my five iPods could freely exchange and mash-up playlists and content across my local home network, if not via a Web connection from the road. But now I am really dreaming. Thanks for the thoughtful story. Matty

  65. No Worries - Dave's Here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you'll spin it all back again, won't you Dave? Apple should pay you but they know they don't have to. You're such a tool.

    Check out Dave's website. Figure out the link from his e-mail address. Get to know a real fucking weirdo and tool.

  66. Corporates have a NO CARE ATTITUDE!! Fkers! by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    Even though in REAL FKing terms it would cost less than say, $50,000 to add features, ie hire a lower grad to add features
    they WONT DO IT. Because total cost involves paying for a manager + floor space etc.. other crap.

    Yes a dude at home, or professional at home COULD DO IT, for under 100 hrs or $5000 worth of effort, Apple Execs says, FU.

    Buy a new one.

    What ever happened to "CHARITY". Doing a good thing, making people happy.

    There is only ONE COMPETITION to the IPOD as there is ONE competition to Vista, and thats themselves.!!!

    NOTE TO EXECS - if you are that hard up and desperate for cash, charge a damn $20 for an update. Thats the cost of the firmware minus hardware.

    Listen JOBS, make me happy and I'll buy another Ipod for my wife or child or recommend it to my father.

    At least in the 80s a piece of hardware lasted 8yrs , and was much better in software and +8 after initial release.

    Too often good hardware is let down by crap software, unupdated software, or stupid slow software.

    Planned obselesense is the #1 business rule today. Hopefully environmental concerns become so HUGE, and hardware hits a platue that they are forced to provide
    ongoing updates for 5yrs. Then forced open source by law. After all is anything in software still that valuable in IP after 5 years? From a realist POV, not a BA/EXEC.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  67. OT: sig by David+Gould · · Score: 1

    Turing test - tell the computer to simulate Alan Turing, then ask him if he's "just a simulation". Better yet:
    Program the computer to simulate John Searle , then ask him if he's "just a simulation".
    --
    David Gould
    main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
  68. Pepper Pad by David+Gould · · Score: 1

    Or, there's the Pepper Pad 3 (I'm writing this on mine.) 800x480, Wifi/BT/USB/IR, Linux, AMD CPU (x86 binaries), very hacker/OSS-friendly system (SDKs, dev community, etc.) Different kind of thing, though -- a tablet PC, not a phone/PDA/pocketPC.

    --
    David Gould
    main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}