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Scientists Create Di-positronium Molecules

doxology writes "The BBC reports that scientists have been able to create di-positronium molecules. A di-positronium molecule consists of two positronium atoms, exotic atoms which are made from an electron and a positron (the anti-particle of the electron). A potential use of these molecules is to make extremely powerful gamma-ray lasers, possibly on sharks."

160 comments

  1. And doxology ruins the whole thread by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey! You're supposed to let US make the jokes.

    1. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Funny

      doxology: a hymn or form of words containing an ascription of praise to God
      Perhaps you meant:
      d'enouement: The solution of a mystery; issue; outcome.
      Because if we're not about st00p3d jokes, we're about pedantry. ;)

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    2. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, I didn't make any mistake.

    3. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by johnw · · Score: 2, Informative

      The original article was posted by someone called "doxology"!

    4. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      First day, new eyes. ;)
      This pair o' doxology usages recalls the Steven Wright jape:
      "When I was a boy, I had a dog named Stay. I'd say 'Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay! He would just look at me...and keep on typing. He was an East German Shepherd. Very, very disciplined."

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    5. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "When I was a boy, I had a dog named Stay. I'd say 'Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay! He would just look at me...and keep on typing. He was an East European job-stealing code monkey

      . Very, very disciplined." there, fixed it for ... Steven Wright.
    6. Re:And doxology ruins the whole thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was unnecessary and a slight on Steven Wright. Doom on you.

  2. Not fair! by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Funny

    If you're going to include all the applicable memes in the blurb, there'll be nothing left for us to post about.

    1. Re:Not fair! by Oersoep · · Score: 0

      Don't worry.
      Hitler and his Nazis are here to save the day.

    2. Re:Not fair! by Arabani · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Come on, at least he didn't use the obvious one!

      In Soviet Russia sharks put lasers on you!

    3. Re:Not fair! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, I for one welcome our new gamma-ray laser wearing shark overlords!

    4. Re:Not fair! by somersault · · Score: 5, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, electron is anti-particle of positron!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Not fair! by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you're going to include all the applicable memes in the blurb, there'll be nothing left for us to post about. If they can make an anti-oxygen, that means we can have di-positronic monoxide, anti-water! It's got positronolytes, what anti-plants crave.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    6. Re:Not fair! by llamalad · · Score: 1, Funny

      Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of laser sharks?

    7. Re:Not fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Only old people build beowulf clusters of laser sharks in Korea.

    8. Re:Not fair! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dude, I know you don't read the article, but you should at least read the summary. Positronium isn't anti-hydrogen; it's an electron and a positron, not a positron and an anti-proton.

      Chris Mattern

    9. Re:Not fair! by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Anti plants? Are you nuts? Anti plants do anti photosynthesis. And while glowing oaks might be cool, their carbon emissions are just way too high.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Not fair! by McWilde · · Score: 1

      How do you figure positronium is anti-hydrogen? You'd need at least an anti-proton in there...

      --
      Maybe
    11. Re:Not fair! by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

      Anti plants? Are you nuts? Anti plants do anti photosynthesis. And while glowing oaks might be cool, their carbon emissions are just way too high. Carbon footprints don't matter, my pasta/antepasta reactor will generate all the clean energy we need. Of course, the carb footprint will be a little high but such is the price of progress.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    12. Re:Not fair! by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      How do you figure positronium is anti-hydrogen? You'd need at least an anti-proton in there... It's faith-based science: I believe one is there, even though I can't see it. Now quit fucking up my joke. :)
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    13. Re:Not fair! by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dude, I know you don't read the article, but you should at least read the summary. Dude, this is slashdot. We're only half-reading the subject lines.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    14. Re:Not fair! by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Anti plants? Are you nuts? Anti plants do anti photosynthesis. And while glowing oaks might be cool, their carbon emissions are just way too high. You just don't get it do you? Anti-Carbon emissions would solve global warming forever!
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    15. Re:Not fair! by mcmonkey · · Score: 0, Redundant

      In Soviet Russia, electron is anti-particle of positron!

      Shouldn't that be....oh, I see what you did there.

    16. Re:Not fair! by at_slashdot · · Score: 1

      You must be new here...

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    17. Re:Not fair! by The+Yuckinator · · Score: 1

      funny funny funny + 1 MILLION funny. thanks for the laugh

    18. Re:Not fair! by llamalad · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, do the beowulf clusters of laser sharks in Korea eat hot grits?

    19. Re:Not fair! by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      And the energy produced when the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere annihilates the anti-carbon dioxide would solve our energy problems for all time!

    20. Re:Not fair! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's not carb, that's anti-carb. Can't you smell the new hype?

      "Low-carb was yesterday, today is anti-carb! Yes, eat food that actually BURNS your fat, for real and quite literally!"

      Sure, some will always start pestering you, that it's not healthy, that gamma ray bursts in your body can damage your kidneys or liver, but hey, you die slim!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:Not fair! by ATMD · · Score: 1

      The FSM isn't going to be happy about this...

      --
      Nobody else has this sig.
    22. Re:Not fair! by elgatozorbas · · Score: 1

      And while glowing oaks might be cool, their carbon emissions are just way too high.

      Anti photosynthesis would obviously lead to CO2 emissions, not carbon emissions.

      Sigh. You know you're a nerd when your comments are even to nerdy for a news for nerds website. Damn.

    23. Re:Not fair! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ok, ok, nitpicker, CO2. But it ain't the O2 part that is concerning, it's that this pesky carbon atom is between those two nice li'l oxygens.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re:Not fair! by Kynmore · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Have you ever seen what happens to a yeti when 12 containers full of unadulterated gamma rays burst in its stomach?"

    25. Re:Not fair! by OAB_X · · Score: 1

      You must be new here.

    26. Re:Not fair! by bensch128 · · Score: 1

      In soviet russia, the submitters put the meme in you!! :) Ben

    27. Re:Not fair! by jwo7777777 · · Score: 1

      ...only with petrified naked statues of .... nevermind.....

    28. Re:Not fair! by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Chuck Norris picks his teeth with these things.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  3. Sharks by nlitement · · Score: 0

    Err.. does anyone else wonder why specifically sharks?

    1. Re:Sharks by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, we've seen the Austin Powers films.

    2. Re:Sharks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never watched austin powers have we?

    3. Re:Sharks by y86 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Err.. does anyone else wonder why specifically sharks?


      Dr. Evil: You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?

      Its an Austin Powers joke. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118655/quotes/
    4. Re:Sharks by weicco · · Score: 1

      Ill-tempered mutated sea bass.

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    5. Re:Sharks by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  4. mis-post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    should have read "extremely powerful gamma-ray frickin lasers"

    1. Re:mis-post by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Funny

      www.shhhh.com

      dot org

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  5. Someone get Wheaton in here by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    If ever there was a topic which he could explain it would be this.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  6. Marvel comics... by Notquitecajun · · Score: 1

    Sweet, one step closer to me getting gamma-induced powers...HULK SMASH....

    1. Re:Marvel comics... by y86 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sweet, one step closer to me getting gamma-induced powers...HULK SMASH....


      Or cancer.
    2. Re:Marvel comics... by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sweet, one step closer to me getting gamma-induced powers...HULK SMASH....


      Or cancer. I realized long ago that the Marvel universe is identical to our own except for one fundamental detail: In our universe, when a freak accident occurs, people die. In the Marvel universe, they get super big, super strong, and oddly colored.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    3. Re:Marvel comics... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I think one of the lasers he's talking about would bypass cancer and just vaporize nice holes in you.

    4. Re:Marvel comics... by Jeek+Elemental · · Score: 3, Funny

      comics in the marvel universe must be pretty depressing, and short.

    5. Re:Marvel comics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dr Bruce Banner's application to work on the research team was denied for obvious reasons.

    6. Re:Marvel comics... by bentcd · · Score: 2, Funny

      comics in the marvel universe must be pretty depressing, and short. No, I think they're rather drawn out and paneful . . .
      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    7. Re:Marvel comics... by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Argh... the only thing paneful was reading that. :)

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    8. Re:Marvel comics... by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

      It was PAINful to read that in a slashdot frame through the window pane of my world

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    9. Re:Marvel comics... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Comics...drawn out...paneful...get it?

      Begin the unnecessarily slow dipping mechanism!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    10. Re:Marvel comics... by ozphx · · Score: 1

      Little Johnny: "My stars! That radioactive truck of waste is skidding over and spilling liquid everywhere!"

      *Crunch*

      Little Johnny: "Oww. My thyroid hurts."

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
  7. Sorry, they're endangered... by Telephone+Sanitizer · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Dr. Evil: You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?

    Number Two: Sea Bass.

    Dr. Evil: [pause] Right.

    Number Two: They're mutated sea bass.

    Dr. Evil: Are they ill tempered?

    Number Two: Absolutely.

    Dr. Evil: Oh well, that's a start.

  8. Possibly on sharks? by fgaliegue · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the end of the summary, the very end in fact:

    [...],possibly on sharks Can the author of the news please elaborate? I just don't see how this discovery possibly relates to an undeservedly frowned upon species of fish...

  9. The State of Science Journalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    '"It's like having a trickle of water filling up a bath and then you empty it out and you get a big flush," said Dr Cassidy.'

    TFA fails to confirm whether or not this involved a series of tubes.

    1. Re:The State of Science Journalism by somersault · · Score: 1

      I tend to find that my baths don't work well for flushing.. wouldn't a toilet flush have been a better analogy? The plug hole in a bath doesn't drain much faster than the taps fill. Meh.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:The State of Science Journalism by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      '"It's like having a trickle of water filling up a bath and then you empty it out and you get a big flush," said Dr Cassidy.'

      TFA fails to confirm whether or not this involved a series of tubes. I think we need to explain to our tiny scientist the difference between a tub and a toilet. Someone else will have to explain that French thing that shoots water at yer bum.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:The State of Science Journalism by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whatever, just make sure he knows the difference between the tub and the toilet before you invite him to your next party. Don't ask for details, just trust me on this one.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:The State of Science Journalism by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whatever, just make sure he knows the difference between the tub and the toilet before you invite him to your next party. Don't ask for details, just trust me on this one. Not to mention my poor fish tank...
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  10. On the good side by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a result, there is a huge interest in the technology from the military as well as energy researchers who believe the lasers could be used to kick-start nuclear fusion in a reactor.

    Well, I'm not sure if letting the military get their hands on it is such a good thing, but the use to initiate nuclear fusion could be the key to cleaner power for everyone. The hardest part of initiating fusion has been pouring enough energy in to start the reaction and allow it to become self-sustaining. This discovery might lead to technology capable of generating the necessary energy.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:On the good side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hardest part of initiating fusion has been pouring enough energy in to start the reaction and allow it to become self-sustaining. What are you talking about? Lasers would be used for inertial confinement fusion which is not self-sustaining. Nor is it meant to be. It uses pellets which are 'zapped' by the laser, burn up, have some fusion reactions, release their energy, and are then replaced with a new pellet to start the cycle over again.

      Tokamak reactors (the self-sustaining ones) don't use lasers to heat the plasma nor would that be the most efficient way to heat the plasma (as compared to X-ray heating or induction heating).
    2. Re:On the good side by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It will probably be military funding that carries out the research. After all, we've mastered creating an uncontrolled, none contained fusion reaction: please see Hydrogen Bombs, Thermonuclear Weapons, fission-fusion weapons, etc.. The holy grail in Weapons research is the true 4th Generation Thermonuclear bomb that uses some method to trigger the reaction other than a fission weapon. (Personally I like to call them Fusion bombs because most people don't know the difference between a nuclear and thermonuclear reaction...all they hear is "nuclear")

      And if you can use this technology to jump start a sustainable fusion reaction for power, you can use it as a trigger in a Thermonuclear weapon. And why would the military like such a weapon? Because it gives you all the power of an Atomic weapon without all the nasty radioactive side effects. A pure Fusion bomb releases a burst of X-ray's and Gamma Rays at the initial detonation, but those don't cause fall out. It is possible the Neutron Flux might cause some elements to turn into radio active isotopes, but this is going to be limited. However you still get all the bang from the resulting over pressure wave followed by the Thermo Radiation (Also known as Heat).

      Now you actually have a nuclear weapon that could be deployed tactically, i.e. on the battlefield, without all the baggage of current fission-fusion weapons due to the lack of fallout. Also it would create a bunker buster the ability to destroy bio-chem weapons caches if needed as well. (Not many organisms and chemicals are going to survive that inferno). Again all the bang, none of the radio active fall out problems. So you also then have fusion weapons that will likely be used in combat operations. They would have been useful in places like Tora Bora. (Although the real reason Bin Laden is still alive....the price on his head is what? USD 24M. What is a poor member of the Bin Laden clan worth? $500M? Gee you kill Osama, whether a merc/traitor/or POTUS, you really think there is a place on this planet you can hide from that kind of wealth and power?)

      I hereby await the gasps from the slashdot crowd followed by where I got the physics wrong (Sorry the last Physics class I had was AP over a decade ago, so this is to the best of my remembering/understanding)...

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    3. Re:On the good side by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Gasp! Gasp! GASP!

      The fusion reaction in an H-bomb is contained, or it wouldn't occur at all. It's just not contained for very long, that's all. The type of confinement in an H-bomb is called "inertial confinment".

      Fission's the same: the nuclear reaction can only take place while the critical mass remains assembled. By the time the nuke is actually destroying stuff (including things as close as the bomb casing), the reaction is already over. Much of a bomb's efficiency is related to how long you can keep the critical mass assembled, or the fusion reaction confined. This is why the Nagasaki bomb was much more powerful than Hiroshima: a better way of keeping the critical mass assembled, leading to more of the fissile material fissioning.

    4. Re:On the good side by $uperjay · · Score: 1

      The ecological damage of a fallout-free fusion bomb is still incredibly high, though. These sort of things would kick so much dust into the atmosphere that using more than a couple would carry just as much risk of 'nuclear winter.'

      In fact, it'd be even worse without the fallout, because we'd have the freezing cold and total collapse but no awesome mutants or psychic powers.

    5. Re:On the good side by SEE · · Score: 1

      Nuclear winter resulting in freezing cold and total collapse? The scenario existed in the original 1980s papers, but those models have long since been shown to be erroneous. Modern science shows that if you detonate 5000 megatons of nukes, spread over a thousand cities, you get a nuclear winter roughly as bad as the volcanic winter of 1816.

  11. Can you imagine by ciaohound · · Score: 5, Funny

    what would happen if Scotty reversed the polarity on those?

    --
    Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
    1. Re:Can you imagine by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Instead of having an electron orbiting a positron, you'd have a positron orbiting an electron!

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Can you imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since it's a molecule composed of two identical 'atoms,' it must necessarily be non-polar.

    3. Re:Can you imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what would happen if Scotty reversed the polarity on those?
      I have news for you; 'he's dead, Jim.'
    4. Re:Can you imagine by Steneub · · Score: 1

      Di-electronium of course!

    5. Re:Can you imagine by Ed_1024 · · Score: 1

      Well, we're almost there! Only a short step from Di-Positronium to Dilithium!

    6. Re:Can you imagine by Hyperspite · · Score: 1

      Actually, you should probably just reverse the spin-spin interaction. The Electron and the Positron are the -->same-- mass so they actually orbit about a point in between them: the system center of mass. This is also true of regular atoms, but the proton is so much more massive that the COM is heavily shifted to the proton side.

    7. Re:Can you imagine by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      Why bother when I already have this perpetual motion machine in my back pocket?

    8. Re:Can you imagine by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      Actually its not, as a) atoms other than hydrogen have >1 electron, and the system centger of mass is the average center of all of them, likely to be closer to the nucleus and b) electron orbits are not circular or even elliptical, they are probability clouds that come in s, p, d and f types, all of which have different shapes, and only the "innermost" s type is spherical.

      --
      I hate printers.
    9. Re:Can you imagine by Simon+la+Grue · · Score: 1

      Tom Bearden, is that you?

    10. Re:Can you imagine by Hyperspite · · Score: 1

      That at first seems correct, but according to "A Modern Approach to Quantum Mechanics" by John H. Townsend, chapter 9 Section 3: Translational and Rotational Symmetry in the Two Body Problem: Relative and Center-of-Mass Coordinates:

      "The natural coordinates for the two body problem when the Hamiltonian is of the form (9.26)* are relative coordinates r and the center-of-mass coordinates R, not the individual coordinates r_1 and r_2. The corresponding position operators are given by:



      r = r_1 - r_2

      R = (m_1r1 + m_2r_2)/(m_1+m_2)

      END QUOTE (bottom of page 244 for the curious)

      *[ H = (p_1)^2/2m_1 + (p_2)^2/2m_2 + V(|r_1+r_2|) H is the hamiltonian, p is the momentum operator for a given particle, m is the mass, r is the position and V is the potential energy function ]

      The thing is I am inclined to agree with your assessment. I admit I suck at QM, but I also know that the COM is used in position space as shown by the above quote. Does anyone actually know what's going on?

    11. Re:Can you imagine by Hyperspite · · Score: 1

      It occurs to me that perhaps the equations reduce to zero at some point although I do not see it in the book. Any more ideas?

    12. Re:Can you imagine by StoneTempest · · Score: 1

      what would happen if Scotty reversed the polarity on those? Yeah, nothing.
  12. The "optics" of a gamma laser by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 5, Informative

    A gamma-ray laser would certainly have many applications. Maybe the energy density is so high that it becomes irrelevant, but the problem that jumps out at me is that you really can't refract high-energy photons. About all you can do is stop them. I don't see this type of "laser" being used in most applications where you traditionally think lasers would be useful, since you wouldn't be able to easily focus these beams, guide them in fiber, or anything like that. The most useful thing you could do with this type of laser, I would guess, would be ablation--THAT it should be pretty darn good at.

    Anyhow, it'll be interesting to see the radiometry for these lasers in however many years it'll take for them to be in a position where they can even think about that sort of thing. From that, you can figure out the dosimetry if you were to turn one onto a person. In this situation, a medical linac should be to this sort of thing what a flashlight is to a laser in terms of photon flux. When you're talking about gamma photons instead of visible ones, I imagine you could give someone a pretty serious radiation dose in pretty short order. From a military perspective I don't think that putting that in a hand-held weapon would exactly rival bullets (which are pretty good at disabling people quickly, something that radiation couldn't do reliably barring stupidly high doses over large areas of the brain or GI), especially considering the cost. Putting one on a satellite and blasting ICBMs in orbit, however, could be a very different story--you don't have nearly as much atmosphere to get through, and you ought to be able to put an awful lot more energy in that missile with similar fluxes of gamma photons versus lower-energy photons. The gammas would probably significantly penetrate the housing of the missile, too, which could be good or bad--bad in that it spreads out the heating effect you'd get, good in that you can significantly heat things that are behind a few layers of metal.

    Come to think of it, considering that medical linacs have caused serious burns (and then death from ARS) in the past, turning a gamma laser on someone would probably basically burn right through them--so maybe dosimetry really isn't an issue (for the target--for the operators, on the other hand...)

    Anyhow, that's way in the future. For now, all we have are jokes about sharks that can turn people into the Hulk from ten meters.

    1. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by marcosdumay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Putting one on a satellite and blasting ICBMs in orbit, however, could be a very different story"

      I doubt it. If you can't focus the bean, you don't have much chance of using it at distance.

    2. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it's a laser, you don't need to focus it.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    3. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Putting one on a satellite and blasting ICBMs in orbit, however, [...]

      I'm not very well versed in nuclear weapons, but wouldn't blasting unstable, near-critical mass of fissil material with gamma rays trigger a chain reaction? Just curious.

    4. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...but the problem that jumps out at me is that you really can't refract high-energy photons
      Of course you can. All you need is a small black hole.
    5. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 4, Informative

      You actually can focus gamma rays.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    6. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's a bean, it's not a laser.

    7. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by NOVADan · · Score: 1

      I would hope this technology would be used in a positive way as in an environmentally friendly energy source...LINK But it's more likely the military is salivating at the STAR WARS possibilities as mentioned above. An anti-missile defense would be beneficial...or we could make a HULK-SHARK, big, green, and a head full of lasers. novalasers.com

    8. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Alioth · · Score: 3, Informative

      It depends. Not all lasers emit a collimated beam without a lens. For example, laser diodes are highly divergent - something like 30 degrees. To get a nice, narrow traditional laser beam with a laser diode, you need a lens.

      Now the gamma laser may well be highly collimated without any additional focusing. But we don't know that for a laser that's not been built and is only theoretically posssible!

    9. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by Zero_DgZ · · Score: 1

      That would just make it work even better. Make the warhead go critical and explode in space, where there really isn't much real estate to damage (never you mind the highly radioactive waste mass raining down on the Earth later, or clearing out a nice big sphere in the population of whatever low-altitude satellites are hanging around in the area) and Bob's your uncle.

      Though one also wonders what would happen to the slice of the planet behind the target, as well...

    10. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by sjames · · Score: 1

      You don't necessarily need a lens to focus a laser, the length of the laser tube takes care of that for you. Photons that happen to be traveling down the axis of the cylindar will stimulate more photon emissions in the same direction. Off axis photons will hit the wall of the tube before stimulating many emissions.

      If the lasing happens in a cylindrical tube, the beam will be a cone whose base is the end of the tube and whose apex is the center of the tube. A longer tube gives a less divergant beam. In the "classic" laser with mirrors at the ends of the tube, the effective length is much longer, but of course, mirrors that reflect gamma are a bit hard to come by :-)

      The strength of the emission along any line passing through the tube will be proportional to the length of the path through the tube. Certainly not a perfect beam but not so bad either.

    11. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by ardle · · Score: 1

      I suggest that you read the rest of that sentence.

    12. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by ardle · · Score: 1

      You mean: "If it's in space, you don't need to focus it." ;-)

    13. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by ardle · · Score: 1

      Haven't you heard of laser beans?

    14. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by despisethesun · · Score: 1

      Simultaneously the deadliest and most delicious of the weaponized legumes.

      --
      This poo is cold.
    15. Re:The "optics" of a gamma laser by treeves · · Score: 1

      No. Gamma rays are not neutrons.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  13. gamma-ray annihilation lasers by jovius · · Score: 1

    oh yes... that'll do them sharks.

  14. FTFA by ArwynH · · Score: 1

    "The discovery, reported in the journal Nature, is a key step in the creation of ultra-powerful lasers known as gamma-ray annihilation lasers."

    Gamma-ray annihilation lasers!!! Oh yeah baby! Who says scientists can't think of cool names?!

    1. Re:FTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gamma-Ray AnnihilAtion Lasers.

      The Graal of geeks and evil geniuses!

  15. Powering Space Elevators by kieran · · Score: 1

    First: "gamma-ray annihilation lasers". Say it out loud. I just want you to take in how immensely cool that sounds.

    Second, might these be the trick to powering Space Elevators? Admittedly materials is still the bigger problem there, but beaming power to the platform was always part of the master plan.

    1. Re:Powering Space Elevators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      gamma-ray annihilation laser can punch a hole in just about anything, but appears to be good for nothing else.

      Still, its good to know that the search for the Holey GRAYL continues.

    2. Re:Powering Space Elevators by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      No. Creating antimatter is an incredibly inefficient process. The reason it's called a gamma ray ANNIHILATION laser isn't because of what happens to whatever it's aimed at, it's because the laser powers itself by annihilation and probably destroys itself in the process. So you only get one shot. Then you have to go make more antimatter.

    3. Re:Powering Space Elevators by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      And they could probably cut the carbon cord in a friction of second too. The falling cable could destroy cities, how fun.
      I believe the safest application of this thing would be a weapon.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    4. Re:Powering Space Elevators by LumenPlacidum · · Score: 1

      It's quite a stretch, but isn't the best conceivable material in terms of strength to weight that which is obtained by dropping all the "dead weight" of protons and neutrons in the molecular structure? Given some allowances for increasing complexity for this idea, one could conceive of getting some materials that are strong but are FANTASTICALLY light. I seem to recall having read about this in some early idea about space elevators, but I cannot find it anymore.

  16. non-shark-related by sexybomber · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I read the article and I still don't get it. How can these positronium atoms possibly be stable? TFA says that they've "merged an electron and a positron", which is impossible, because when the electron and the positron touch, there's a relatively large explosion.

    So ... one of the particles has to be orbiting the other, like a regular atom. But wouldn't it blow up just the same if, say, a stray cosmic ray or a neutrino or something were to smack the nucleus? IIRC, photons are more like normal matter than antimatter.

    Any particle physicists in the house who want to enlighten us?

    1. Re:non-shark-related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      IANAPP, but TFA specifically refers to positronium atoms as "short-lived", and notes that the molecules survived for "just a quarter of a nanosecond".

    2. Re:non-shark-related by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Informative

      First of all, the electrons orbiting around the atom's nucleus is an atomic model that was valid during the first couple of decades of the 20th century. Our atomic models of the last 80 years are not as simple as that.
      You are right about the electron and the positron being able to annihilate each other (producing a couple of photons IIRC, I guess your "explosion" of radiation). However, you are limited to high school level (particles orbiting each other) and Hollywood level (matter-antimater explosions) physics, but you are getting in quantum physics territory, where the particle-antiparticle annihilation does not exactly happen when the particles "touch". In fact we cannot even say that two particles "touch" in the traditional sense of the word.
      Anyway, without being a particle physicist and without RTFA (leaving for work now), I can tell you that I don't see a reason that a positron-electron pair could not survive for a brief time. Where "brief" in physics is measured in ps or at least ns. When you hear physics news like "we created the xxx exotic particle" they are usually referring to something that existed in their accellerator for a picosecond or so...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    3. Re:non-shark-related by sexybomber · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know I was using the Rutherford atomic model, and yes, I know it's a lot more complicated than that. Blue balls orbiting red and grey balls is a bit easier to visualize than quantum-mechanical clouds.

      And I also admit to being influenced by Hollywood on the topic of matter-antimatter collisions. Guess I just want to see things blow up...

    4. Re:non-shark-related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am a physicist but not a particle physicist. Electrons and positrons are attracted to each other because one is negatively charged and one is positively charged. When they come together they can form a stable state which is a lot like a hydrogen atom, instead of a proton and an electron you have a positron and electron. The stable state is called "positronium". "Stable" is a relative term here, positronium lasts maybe 100 nanoseconds, which is a "long" time in some sense. After that the electron and positron do annihilate one another. When they do, they produce gamma rays of about 1 MeV. I'm not sure how you would make this into a gamma ray "laser", but you could at least produce gamma rays this way.

  17. Why is this an "atom?" by FiveLights · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "These short-lived, hydrogen-like atoms consist of an electron and a positron, a positively charged antiparticle." I would think that an anti-proton and a positron (anti-electron) would be a "hydrogen-like atom." Why is the mating of an electron and an anti-electron considered an "atom?" And what force is keeping them from just annihilating each other? Why do they hook up and hang out, even for a brief time? I read about this on fark and got confused but came here to ask. So please, smart people of Slashdot, explain this to me.

    1. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 5, Informative

      Calling an electron-positron pair an 'atom' is a bit suspect, but not too bad. Any semi-stable collection of elementary particles can be referred to as an 'atom'. They took the analogy even further, saying that when these 'atoms' met each other they formed 'molecules' -- large, electromagnetically bound accumulations of electron-positron pairs. Kinda cool.

      As for what's keeping them from annihilating each other...well, at first it's angular momentum and the Pauli exclusion principle. Both the electron and the positron are fermions, and they must occupy discrete states. Give the pair enough energy and they will occupy a semi-stable state that does not allow them to contact and destroy each other.

      But before long they *do* annihilate each other. That's why it's called an 'annihilation laser'. The matter-antimatter pair collapses, liberating enormous amounts of energy in the form of gamma rays.

      I think 'matter-antimatter annihilation laser' sounds cooler, but there's a certain mad scientist flavor to the 'gamma ray' bit, too.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    2. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

      But the Pauli exclusion principle prevents two *identical* fermions from occupying the same quantum state simultaneously. Are an electron and positron considered identical fermions or is this between two electrons and positrons within the "molecule"?

      I'm also wondering just how stable the molecules are. Could they be used for a matter-antimatter propelled rocket?

      Today's Thursday. Must be my armchair physicist day.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    3. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by dstiggy · · Score: 1

      From my understanding then as long as the electron remains in an excited state then the exotic atom would stay stable and not annihilate itself. Would it then be possible to keep the electron in an excited state and create a stable atom and then molecules? Along this line then it would seem to me if you created a large enough amount of atoms you could create a gamma ray emitting material where gamma rays emitted as atoms annihilated each other would excited the electrons of the other remaining atoms to remain in a higher state. Eventually all of this matter would still annihilate itself but it seems to me to be a way of creating it for a long enough time for study. Also if you could find another way of keeping the electrons in a higher state you could use it as some type of anitmatter fuel.

    4. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Warbothong · · Score: 1

      Of course it's an atom. It's on the periodic table between Neutronium and Suprise.

    5. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 1

      Pauli exclusion, if I recall correctly, is also the principle that forces electrons into discrete energy states. An electron can go from state A to state B, but cannot exist in any state in between. That's what keeps the electron-positron system somewhat stable -- they have enough energy to occupy a mutually orbiting state. They have to lose all their energy at once -- not just some of it -- to exit that state and annihilate with each other. The higher the energy shift necessary, the longer it takes for a decay to occur. Thus it takes some small amount of time before their energy state decays and they annihilate. And the 'small amount of time' is mentioned in the article -- a quarter of a nanosecond.

      Can this be used to make stable positronium molecules? I'd say it's pretty unlikely, as it would require even higher energies and thus make containment even more difficult. These are not truly stable systems.

      But the article mentions something about using a silica 'sponge' to trap the positrons. No idea how that's supposed to work, but if it could be improved we could someday have a battery capable of producing antiparticles on demand.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    6. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by InfoVore · · Score: 1

      I think 'matter-antimatter annihilation laser' sounds cooler, but there's a certain mad scientist flavor to the 'gamma ray' bit, too.

      How about a compromise then: MAAG-LASER - Matter-Antimatter Annihilation Gamma-ray Laser

      Of course the "L" should be replaced with a "G" since the Gamma-rays are the EM waves being amplified: GASER - Gamma-ray Amplified Stimulated Emission of Radiation. But we may want to stick with MAAG-LASER since MAA-GASER sounds like a southerner commenting on the result of eating too many black-eyed peas.

      -I.V.

      --
      "These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
    7. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I was going to write a long post speculating on the decay of positronium, but I just got owned by Wikipedia.

      But you're right that the Pauli exclusion principle doesn't apply to the stability of positronium.

      The wikipedia article has some good information on lifetimes of various states; I find it interesting that the triplet state (parallel spins) has roughly 1000 times the lifetime of the singlet state (antiparallel spins). I think this is due to angular momentum: the net angular momentum in the singlet state is 0, so the easier two-photon decay is possible. The triplet (spin 1) requires the three-photon decay to carry away the angular momentum, as photons have spin +-1. However, none of the lifetimes is much more than about a microsecond, so it doesn't make very good rocket fuel.

    8. Re:Why is this an "atom?" by Phat_Tony · · Score: 1

      "Any semi-stable collection of elementary particles can be referred to as an 'atom'."

      How do you define "semi-stable"? Because the last row of the Periodic Table of the Elements on Wikipedia is populated largely by things starting with "un" that have half-lives in the millisceonds, which I don't consider to be particularly stable. But then, maybe it the world of physics, that's a long time compared to the lifespans of some of the other particles they look for these days.

      --
      Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
  18. Atoms? by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So positronium is an atom composed of an electron and a positron. Is this then an atom without a nucleus?

    Weird.

    --
    Happy people make bad consumers.
    1. Re:Atoms? by iknowcss · · Score: 1

      Is positronium it's own anti-atom? If the positron were the nucleus, then it would be one thing, and if the electron were the nucleus it'd be the anti-thing. That must be where the gamma raze from :P

      --
      Life is rarely fair. Cherish the moments when there is a right answer.
    2. Re:Atoms? by aaron+alderman · · Score: 1

      By your reasoning Hydrogen would be an atom without a nucleus as its simply the same system but with a positive charge which is 1000x more massive.

    3. Re:Atoms? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I don't follow that logic. I think he's asking for something to be an Atom does it need a proton (or antiproton). Or can an atom just be positive and negative particles lumped together. like tiny electron and tiny positron?

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:Atoms? by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the quarks held together by the exchange of gluons. There is no strong nuclear force holding anything together in the positronium atom.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    5. Re:Atoms? by onemorechip · · Score: 1

      "Atom" comes from Greek and literally means unsplittable. Of course, you can split electrons away from the atom (ionization), thereby making it a misnomer. And we get atomic energy by splitting the nucleus of a heavy atom. To be completely literal-minded about it, the electron and the positron are the true atoms in positronium.

      --
      But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
  19. Can they take it to three? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Although dipositronium (Ps2) is considered to be a huge advance, scientists will be disappointed to discover that tripositronium (Ps3) will never be as popular as tungsten-diiodide (WII).

    1. Re:Can they take it to three? by Riktov · · Score: 1

      But for smaller-scale applications, positronium-protonium (PSP) is pretty popular.

    2. Re:Can they take it to three? by TimboJones · · Score: 1

      But not quite as popular as Deuterium Sulfide (DS)

  20. But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom.

  21. But we won't have warp drive by kiick · · Score: 1

    Until they can make di-lithium crystals.

  22. Di-positronium? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What kind of a name is di-positronium? Shouldn't it be called anti-helium?

    1. Re:Di-positronium? by jafuser · · Score: 1

      From what I understand, both particles are leptons; there are no baryons, so it's not a normal element e.g., Helium.

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    2. Re:Di-positronium? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think Helium is normal, you've clearly never sucked in half of the contents of a helium balloon then bleated the chorus to "Like a Virgin" before graying out and cracking your noggin on a table at Chucky Cheese's.

      Helium is certainly not normal.

  23. Yeah but.. by St.Anne · · Score: 1

    That's only dangerous if you're in the ocean, what about if you're on land huh? What then!?

    1. Re:Yeah but.. by GameMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Land shark, I mean, Pizza...

      --

      Rules of Conduct:
      #1 - The DM is always right.
      #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
    2. Re:Yeah but.. by salec · · Score: 1

      You mean, Candygram...

  24. I think he just invented the Positron Toilet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It's like having a trickle of water filling up a bath and then you empty it out and you get a big flush," said Dr Cassidy.

    Now Data can use the bathroom. ...you do not want to go in there...it is like a giant gamma ray burst...

  25. More dangerous sharks please by eebra82 · · Score: 1

    A potential use of these molecules is to make extremely powerful gamma-ray lasers, possibly on sharks. Finally! Now that the harmless sharks finally get some gamma-ray lasers on the tip of their nose, this will help them regain their position at the top of the food chain, ever since the nasty penguins started taking over their territory.
  26. i just wanna know by chelanfarsight · · Score: 1

    when i get my positronic brain.

  27. Reversed Polarity ..... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    ... how quaint

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  28. Gamma ray lasers... by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Forgive my ignorance but isn't a gamma ray pretty hard to shield against and focus, or was that some other form of radiation? It would seem to me making a focused beam of radiation would require very toxic materials for reflecting, and some radiation waves penetrate most anything.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Gamma ray lasers... by belg4mit · · Score: 1

      Hard to shield against, yes. Focus, yes I think it's difficult focus at either extreme of the spectrum.
      However you don't necessarily need to focus a laser, eh? Just use a really aperture in your emission
      chamber? Toxicity has nothing to do with reflectivity.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
  29. Holy GRAIL by jiawen · · Score: 1

    Just in case no one has yet, I propose the acronym GRAIL: Gamma Ray AnnihIlation Laser. Sounds like they've been seeking it for a while, too...

  30. Noobs by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

    I was creating di-positronium molecules almost 25 years ago on my Atari 2600

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  31. lasers! by biddlej · · Score: 1

    "The discovery, reported in the journal Nature, is a key step in the creation of ultra-powerful lasers known as gamma-ray annihilation lasers."
    Any technology whose name includes the word annihilation can only mean good things for humanity.
  32. Don't cross the streams! by toddar · · Score: 1

    Dr. Egon Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm a little fuzzy on the whole "good/bad" thing here! What do you mean "bad"?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
    Dr. Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal!
    Dr. Peter Venkman: That's bad. Okay. All right, important safety tip, thanks Egon.

  33. H2G2 setup by benhocking · · Score: 1

    I believe the safest application of this thing would be a weapon.
    "Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of." --Arthur Dent
    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
    1. Re:H2G2 setup by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Ok, the explanation: this weapon would be dangerous only to its user, or the user's city at most.
      In any way, it would solve the problem which created it in the first place.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  34. Aren't you forgetting someone? by benhocking · · Score: 1

    Assuming the weapon worked, wouldn't it be more dangerous to the one it is used on than the one who uses it?

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
    1. Re:Aren't you forgetting someone? by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      I don't think so, but even if it is so, it would be mostly harmless as a weapon compared to possible damage of its peaceful applications.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  35. 123 comments so far, not one serious! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Awesome!

    Make that 124...

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  36. We've secretly replaced... by InterestingX · · Score: 1

    Data's positronic matrix with a di-positronium matrix. Let's see if he notices....

  37. your sig by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Cheap shot on Islamic Extremists: (-1, Troll)
    Cheap shot on Christian Extremists: (+5, Insightful)


    Not sure which is worse, getting your buildings blown up or having extremist take over politics and your government and all your institutions. What about things that aren't cheap shots, like real zingers?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:your sig by iknowcss · · Score: 1

      Well I suppose getting your buildings blown up and having extremists take over your government simultaneously would probably be more of a bitch. I don't think "terrorists" are bombing buildings in the Middle East just to scare people.

      --
      Life is rarely fair. Cherish the moments when there is a right answer.
  38. Wrong by Grayswan · · Score: 1

    No, no, no, the lasers go on seabass, not sharks.

    Ill-tempered seabass.

    --
    If you open your mind too wide, people will throw trash in it.
  39. bullshit by urban_warrior · · Score: 1

    I for one call bullshit, the opposite particle of an electron would be the proton, an atom containing one proton and one electron would be a hydrogen atom, to such atoms conected together would be h2 a.k.a an average hydrogen molecule,

  40. from 3rd year optics/laser physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dont lasers diverge at less than inverse square rates, so is it meaningful saying its 30degrees angular? the minimum size of the neck is a function of the aperture right? i think it might be different for the higher order modes too.

    then youve got 'squeezed light' which can get the focal point even smaller

    --------
    satellite uplink, _BLING_