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Free Phone Calls... If Advertisers Can Eavesdrop
Dekortage writes "Today, Pudding Media is introducing an Internet phone service similar to Skype's online service, but without any toll charges. The catch: they are eavesdropping on phone calls with voice recognition software to monitor calls, then push conversation-relevant the ads to the subscriber's computer screen. Interestingly, during tests, "conversations [were] actually changing based on what was on the screen," said the president. "Our ability to influence the conversation was remarkable.""
Where's the "sheeple" tag? How do I tag a /. article?
I should discuss my grandma's sweet 'n' sour chicken breast recipe more often...
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I can't wait to see ads for hookers and blow on my computer screen.
I mean - more ads for hookers and blow.
...but somebody is cashing in on ad revenue at the same time?
Seriously, though, I'm not to the point where my phone bill is so expensive I'd do this. Cable TV on the other hand...
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I would never actually use this because I like my privacy but it would be fun to use this and see how long you can avoid triggering the ads
...when you call the phone sex line with this thing?
Bob: Oh yeah? Oh, is that the free phone calls with conversation-relevant ads showing up on your screen?
Phil: That's right, it's completely free!
Bob: Heh, monkey sex.
Phil: Uh, what?
Bob: Monkey sex!
Phil: Ew, gross, stop that.
Bob: Beastiality.
Phil: Oh yuck, these flash based ads are
Bob: Goatse.
Phil: Ahhhhhhhhh! *click*
My work here is dung.
So adverts shown on screen changed what the callers were talking about?
Me: Hi boss, I was thinking about a raise...
Boss: Hi. Er, did you know you can get herbal viagra?
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
Oh boy! Another way to get all of those ads and offers I so enjoy to my computer screen! I thought all this adware stuff was the bees knees. Now this comes along!
The game.
I think it'd be fun to see what ads you could trigger by steering the conversation in a more crude direction.
Please stop the ads. Just stop. Stop the ads on TV and radio, in magazines and movies, at ball games and on buses, on milk cartons and t-shirts, and everywhere else inbetween. Just stop the damn advertising already!
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Or make up your own. At least they'll have to work for it.
Seriously, though. People that go for this are dumbshits.
Ig-pay atin-lay.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
Since this service is recording phone calls I imagine the company might want to keep the data for a "reasonable" time. I wonder if it could be used to prove alibis and such? Very interesting times indeed.
I'd easily consider taking this on (although it seems to suggest that it's only north american numbers, and they probably don't have a linux client...). Still, whilst it is possible (though unlikely) that a human could listen to what you're saying I have to question whether they would actually want to listen to what I'm saying - or if I would care if they are. Granted I'm not going to use this for telephone banking, and probably not even for calling my girlfriend, I really don't care if they listen to my mum talking for half an hour about her dog or hear me arrange a party... or shout down the phone whilst drunk at people about the importance of egalitarianism (but that's another story...)
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
else you get the Want Ads for like sex services:
"Like to talk dirty? Want to get paid for it?"
AccountKiller
You know that it's not mandatory for you to run this program, right?
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
I wonder if their software can detect if I dial the speaking clock and leave it off hook?
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/speaking_clock.htm
Seriously, this sounds a little intrusive. Voice recognition my ass, I bet there is a clause in their contract stating the call may be recorded for future training, enhancement, fun, profit and any damn reason they like. 'Scuze me while I reach for my phrases and codes book.
I wonder if the ads managed to influence the conversation to have "What's with these @#$@ing ads?!" :P
Now, consider what scumbags like Comcast could do with this. They bundle phone, cable, and Internet. So they could tweak not just your banner ads, but also your TV ads (using an upgraded on-demand system). And they could use peeping on one service to affect the others. For example, they could change your web ads based on what shows you watch. The only question is whether they think the cost in lawsuits (from other advertisers and customers) would be worth it. Hmm, maybe they can tie it into the DHS "we need retroactive immunity for any crime on the grounds that it would be bad for business for us to be subject to the law" stuff. Obviously the program could service "national security" purposes as well.
funny. I just made a call yesterday using this system and suddenly I'm getting ads about weapons, espionage, government contractors...
wait a sec. Some men in black are knocking on my window. brb.
"Didn't you have ads in the twentieth century?"
"Well, sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio... and in magazines... and movies, and at ballgames, and on buses, and milk cartons, and T-shirts, and bananas, and written in the sky. But not in dreams, no sirree."
Since it doesn't seem like they have the email system perfected yet, what's to prevent you from turning off your monitor and continuing to talk? Provided you're cool with the eavesdropping and just annoyed at the ads? Or minimize the screen?
Do you really need to see how long you've been chatting with someone in real time?
There's no way to understand every language spoken. Perhaps we should begin learning unusual languages, such as Navajo. It worked in WWII!
But then watch th EULA for these things. "We limit the right to speak only English on these phones"
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
We'll get our calls eavesdropped anyway. With them, at least we get free calls in return. And as a bonus, we stop the endless wondering about being watched.
I've never seen a better reason to start speaking in Ubbi dubbi.
I dont think this is an option ! basically they are listening to your calls as gmail does with emails .. this is going too far, and people shouldnt get into this trap, for the simple reason of : privacy .
Minutetraders | Voice Exchange Marketplace - Buy/Sell
Advertising Content is a commodity. That is not the concern.
What I wonder what the law says about computer-based eavesdropping? If a crime is plotted or committed over this line, does it make the software complicit?
So it doesn't record the whole conversation but merely responds to voice triggers for pushing ad content, are there triggers for words like murder, crime, assassination, or vice? And what about other languages?
Hoo-boy, welcome to the litigious states of america. I don't think this company has thought this through.
Interestingly, during tests, "conversations [were] actually changing based on what was on the screen,"
Of course: DURING TESTS. The sole purpose of the test is to test what they're testing, so it's the subject of interest without any magic required. How about influencing a real world call, emergent call, bad news call, good news call. Anything-else-than-playing-with-the-system call.
And their scheme has a flaw: I can keep talking with my screen turned off. Their advertisers better be dumb enough not to figure out that one.
Great! What's preventing me from turning off my monitor after the call connects?
It's like Echelon got drunk and woke up next to a spam-bot. Man, that's an ugly child.
I'm not letting anyone profit off *my* communications.
... as long as I log in?
What's next? Free comment-sections on websites?
How could anyone subject themselves to such a sacrifice of personal liberties.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
This just wreaks of NSA, CIA, Stazi, KGB...
The game.
this is it just to see what ads come up.
I can already make calls without having to pay toll, and I dont have to use my computer or a proprietary system to connect to it. What possible use would this be to me?
I predict the imminent demise of the entire concept of 'long distance' and tolls.
Hopefully soon 'per minute' charging (regardless of wether its a flat rate for x-thousand minutes, or a meter running with post-use billing) for cell airtime will die too.
...would never use this service, and while I despise ads as much as the next person, I don't quite get what all the fuss is over. You KNOW that they are recording your phone call, they tell you everything up front, you get free phone service...yes, you have to look at ads, but hey! At least they are pertinent to you and yours.
If I have to see advertisements everywhere, I don't want to see shit for Viagra or a low mortgage rate...I want to see ads for video games, horror movies, fetish stores, and computer equipment.
Seriously, there is no way to escape advertisement (yes, I know there is AdBlock and NoScript), so why not at least have advertisements that you would be at least REMOTELY interested in? Target audience and all that... If Comcast knew what kind of products I was interested in and I got to see ads for only those type of products while watching what little TV I watch, I would be much less inclined to leave the room or fast forward on Tivo. Instead, I get stuck with commercials for tampons and "beer" (i.e. watered down piss...I love being from and living in the USA, but christ we have NO tatse in beer)
Living With a Nerd
I think I'll use this to call up random people that use it, get them mad until they start calling me a "fag", and listen as they get pissed when gay porn ads pop up.
http://blog.heavensdomain.net
If it places ads based on the conversation and they find the ads actually change the conversation, I'd say the original concept isn't working so well.
Opi spopeak "opop", whopich opis opa voparopiopant opof opubbopidopubbopi. Yopou hopave topo(o) bope(e) coparefopul thopough whopen spopeakoping opit opin popublopic. Whopen yopou opare scopopoping opout bopabes whopo(o) opare opin lopistopenoping dopistopance, youou copan gopet opin tropoubople opif thopey spopeak opop topoo.
There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
So they don't need to do wire taps, they don't need warrants they just need to give every one free phone service. And of course any one who'd doesn't use their free service must have something to hide and must therefor be a terrorist!!!!!!!!! Maybe even a terrorist in possession of breadboards, batteries, LEDs and Playdoh.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
this company is based in Israel (with an office in cali)
i trust Israel even less than Americans (if thats possible thesedays) perhaps we should talk about promoting hezbolla and the like on their system and see what happens...
It's a real relief that the ads won't change based on what you're thinking...
Mayhaps you could use it to call one of those numbers for free, and then get titillating ads, sending the system into a meatspace recursive stack overflow.
Till now, I've never seen the point in multiple desktops. Finally, I think I've found a use for them. Free phone call displaying ads on one I'm not looking at, work on the other. Eat me, advertisers.
I'm thinking I could do what we did with the Neilsen box when we begged them to hook it up - we left it on cspan 24 hrs a day. I could auto-dial publisher's clearing house, resulting in automatic repeated entry into the sweepstakes, so that Ed McMahon shows up with my big ass check.
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
I'm currently in Italy with my wife and we'd love to have a way to call the family back in the states. I for one would love this service. The apartment we are renting for the week has a computer in the room so we may actually give it a try. I can care less if they monitor the phone call, for this it not something I'd use for any private calls.
Looks like I will have to find a way to get Flash installed to this machine first (it's locked down w/o flash installed). Does anyone else know if any other software beside Flash is required? I'm thinking the landlord would be much more willing to install 'Flash' as opposed to Skype or any other 3rd party software.
Now where did I put my bottle of Haldol?
Except that this is a legal morass in the making.
Sure, they got an opt-in of the caller but do they have opt-in from the recipient?! So some imbecile calls you on that thing, and without warning you are being monitored/recorded by some inane corporate NSA-wannabe operation, with no idea by whom and where your call is being listened to, and retained for purposes you can't predict.
The only way I can see this being even remotely legal in many places is if you get a message in the vain of "The party calling you has opted for recording of this call for undetermined purposes by any and all corporate afilliates of afilliates of the NSA-wannabies who paid the sheep in question for his call, Press 1 to accept the incoming call, Baaaaah, Press 2 to indicate that you still have a brain..." or some such.
I recently took a trip to England, France and Italy and it changed my opinion completely about beer. Americans have excellent taste in beer! We actually keep more obscure stuff on tap. I can get Belgian beers at the local tavern. The English drink Guinness ICE COLD and that's as good as it gets!
They want to rely on voice recognition software? Well then I guess it will be a good deal, since that stuff doesn't work worth a damn. More interestingly, what does voice recognition software do when it identifies a threat to US persons, which, under US signals laws, would require reporting? What happens if their voice recognition software doesn't catch a specific threat? I think (hope) liability alone will put this model under.
I wonder how this would work for MediaDefender...
;-)
A: Hi, this is Ben Grodsky, MediaDefender.
B: Alright, Mike McCartney, Brad Bartram and Jim Dommers
(ads displayed on computer): How to secure your email by using free VoIP services! 100% RSA encrypted*!
* - Encryption not existent while serving ads.
Since the system is free there's no harm, to you at least, in having infinite length phone calls. So do the following..call yourself (one browser to another). Play MP3s or NPR or Rush limbaugh into it. This will chaffe the system with ludicrous amounts of nonsense data. They will never be able to get a profile on you for the few real phone calls you make.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
will this work if I talk in Marathi
So now Joe Schmoe can run his own telemarketing command center without any overhead at all! Not only that, but he can find new sources for advertising revenue just by talking to "customers"!
We should have heard from the "If you've got nothing to hide" bunch by now...
Surely, they'll be the first ones to sign up!
So what ads would I get? That might actually be interesting: Probably ads about recently released physics books, about how Neurosis will be playing in Buffalo (they'd know where I am!), about a comic book convention in Rochester, a sale on my favorite strings at the Guitar Center... - and I'm sitting here wondering whether this would be so bad. After all, these ads would each very likely result in me spending money, greatly increasing the efficiency of the whole advertising system. Potentially, this would mean that I wouldn't need to watch as many ads. Once they collect enough data, they would realize that most of them are a complete waste anyway, and that it would be wiser for them to just not bother with them. Also, this would really lower the economic barrier for submitting an ad to the media. It might be profitable for a local bar to actually advertise their decision to have Wednesday night trivia, because only people who live in the neighborhood, go to bars and like trivia would get the ad.
Even better would be this: They let me select an "I'm not interested in this sort of thing" option along with ads they show. Of course they wouldn't be contractually obligated to respect all my input, but... generally that sort of input would be good for both the consumer and the advertiser.
How did these people see the advertisements with the phone up to their ear ?
Did they get people second hand from government testing to try this out or somthing ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
If I am on the phone and want something, I will seek out the best of what there is through research - I will pay NO attention to advertising that TELLS me what I should or should not want. There is a difference between non-intrusive (sometimes entertaining) advertising in (say) print magazines where one gets to learn about something new - perhaps in a field one would not have discovered without the ad - and the opposite of having unwanted information shoved in ones face in a manner that makes assumptions about me. Amazing with all the technology and (supposed) brilliance available in the tech sector that this sort of crap and those annoying small pop up 'ads' that appear over hyperlinked words on websites like GSM Arena that this is all 'we' can come up with. What a waste of mankind! No wonder we're failing to solve the world's problems, our intellectual capital is tied up thinking of pathetic ways to squeeze a tiny more money out of each individuals persona. If you develop a service (such as VoIP) that does its job, then people will pay for it - and you are then answerable to any failings of said service. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Pay money, get warranty.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
So why aren't all of our calls paid for by the US Government, then?
I mean, it COULD be bad for your front door when you discuss where to better deposit the bomb so those pesky anti-terrors can't find it in time.
The worst thing is that I could see this succeed. People don't care jack about anything, and certainly not their privacy, if they could somehow save a few cents.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
At least the formentioned agencies left you alone as long as you play(ed) by their rules. This gets on your nerves, no matter what you do.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Our ability to influence the conversation was remarkable."
This sounds like advertising to the advertisers who will be funding the service. Replace the pure-hype word "remarkable" with "detectable in some cases" and I might believe it.
I suspect it is likely that people just won't look at their computer screens while chatting, since it would be distracting.
A service specifically designed for the "I have nothing to hide, so I don't care if they wiretap" people!
Now I just need to figure out if someone I know is using the service....... So I can sell them a Bridge........
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
How long until someone uses pre-recorded conversations to come up with "call-fraud," forcing them to pay advertising revenue for ads that no one's really seeing?
Interestingly, the captcha for this post is the word "probable."
In Russia, You Listen To Phone Call -- In Soviet America, Phone Call Listens To You!
I know what you mean. We've become a culture of marketing at every level. What happens when we've exported all the real jobs, and all that's left is marketing?? We're damn close to that as it is!
It's like no one sees any way to make money anymore except by marketing someone else's stuff. No one actually creates this stuff, they just market it.
And yeah, you've got to sell product to stay in business, but when the only product you're selling is marketing......
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Didn't you notice that the crowd is only loud when it comes to computers and "online search" of computers? Never that someone could look into their bedrooms, search through their garbage (you have no idea how protective people can be of their trash... Especially companies) or listen to their calls.
I pinpoint the reason in the fact that in the life of those people computers don't really play a meaningful role. I mean, I don't care too much either if someone wants to look at the restaurant bills I have on my credit card. It's not really an important part of my life.
Likewise for those people and computers. At best they surf a little, play a little WoW, so sniffing through their computers doesn't really matter to them.
But dare to look through their windows!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Of course every conversation will be "BOMB! PLANE! BOMB! BOMB! KEEBLER! BOMB! NUKE! KILL! BOMB! KILL!" but that's the price of, um, something...
I'd say this service is worth trying, but not for the service itself. By trying it one would get a reasonable idea of the capabilities of such a device. If an advertising firm can get its hands on one of these devices, then probably anyone with relatively modest resources can. So, if this service is as good as they say, then we should assume that almost anyone (say, your employer, telco, law enforcement) could also be tapping your phones and making transcripts too.
That gives us the capability. Now with that in mind, the obvious question is "Does someone want to tap my phone?". If the answer is yes (police state, nosey employer, etc), then you should assume the eavesdroppers can have transcripts made automatically. If nobody's tapping your phones, then using this service is definitely a bad idea. If somebody is, you might as well take advantage of the free calls.
The important point is that if this service is as good as they say, right now would be a very good time to start using end to end crypto in all phone calls.
Boy, I'm really paranoid today! I should join the cypherpunks one of these days.
OTOH, since TFA says they disregard "explicit" words, it would be interesting to talk in a code formed by those words. Like morse with fuck=dih and bitch=dah.
GPG 0x1B479C78
By the US government. Why don't the advertisers just pay for the privilege of riding along? The government could take that money and use it to pay the telecom companies and data-mining companies to collect and analyze the phone conversations. Even though there's no accountability or legality to it, the government can then claim with a straight face that "we don't monitor domestic phone calls". Of course not. They pay others to do it for them!
OMG... I *SOOOOOOO* hope they take advertising from pr0n sites on this. Can you imagine how much THAT would steer the conversation?
phone calls listen to YOU! Sorry, I could not resist.
over the privacy issue here use gmail...
typos are for those of us whose brains move to fast to be bothered with such mundane details
Wasn't there a movie once where literally every surface (including inside homes) was covered with an ad? What movie was that?
This is exactly what GMail does, and yes, sometimes the funny ads that my mail conversations bring up do come up into the conversation. It's not a big deal. So what? The server matches key words in the body of my mails to keywords in their ad database, to humorous results.
Having something new change a conversation is not a new thing. It's really no different from the 'Guess where I'm calling you from!' type conversations when people first got their cell phones.
Forum posts -- public. It's not a big deal if ads change based on the content of your posts on a forum. You've already released them to the world.
Phone calls, though, are private, so everyone here on /. is up that this is some unscrupulous NSA-wannabe phone company that'll use your private communications for their own benefit without your consent. That's the main argument against this idea, but Gmail serves up ads based on your email, a private communication. So does Hotmail, and Yahoo mail. What's the big difference between phone calls and email, that you'd tolerate having email recorded and looked at by an advertiser but wouldn't if a phone company did it?
What would happen if encryption was used both ways? What sort of ads would show up then? Or how about fax over voip? Or even a virtual modem to modem connection?
This sig left intentionally blank.
Yes, they can listen to my phone calls to those "hot" sites. We in the SF Bay Area have a interesting issue now that people with those automatic toll taking devices called "FasTrack" the people, like me, with a older transponder have a older 800 phone number that is written on it that now calls a phone porn site. They have a new number now but the people with the older units still have that old 800 phone number. They can listen in at anytime when I call the old 800 phone number if they need some sexual assistance.
I see 222 posts about this story, but no one has said it yet. GMail today machine-reads your email in order to provide contextual ads (in the right hand pane next to your mail). In order to serve those ads they must need to show customers statistics proving the relevance and targeting of ads, so they're obviously keeping a record of what was said versus what ads were shown, click through rates for those ads, etc. That is in addition to the actual emails they keep on their servers, and this data would persist even after I delete an email since its likely to reside in some ads database. GMail does not even let me opt out of seeing these contextual ads so I don't even have an option of doing what this company (Pudding Media) will let its users do - opt out of this invasion of privacy. Please don't tell me that multi-gazillion dollar corporation X is more likely to use or abuse its data than multi-gazillion dollar corporation Y - its well known in the relevant circles that certain federal agencies with TLAs for names have free access to the Google databases. If you want to know more about that you can read an earlier Slashdot story about Google's refusal to provide the DOJ with search queries as requested.
"No,we're not listening to your phone calls," the man said in a mocking whine. "That would be unconstitutional. We see only the ads that show up when you talk on your phone."
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
So, if I say "Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.", I'll get ads for Microsoft voice recognition software?
Will turning the screen off hide the ads?
signature is pants
at least now the citizen/customer gets something out of it
This is exactly what I fear in life-- the invasion of my privacy in the interest of selling products.. It's bad enough already, and now this.. /me heads off to his shack in the woods and hides out there with his coputer
"Sure. Diet loose penis fast perfectly legal golf ball toner mortgage."