Slashdot Mirror


Court Upholds Internet Deregulation

Internet Voting writes "Big telecom companies seem to have won big with the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling upholding FCC's ruling deregulating the Internet. Opponents argued that telecoms could now deny third parties access to their telecommunications lines and eliminating competition. From the story: "In its September 2005 ruling, the FCC relieved telephone companies of decades-old regulations that required them to grant competing Internet service providers 'nondiscriminatory' access to their wirelines in order to reach consumers.""

235 comments

  1. I can't wait! by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hey, did you see that video on YouTube today?"

    "No, I can't. My ISP doesn't support that part of the internet."

    "Oh... that sucks... well, I can email you the video."

    "From your Comcast address? No, that won't do. My hardware is not Comcast-enabled."

    1. Re:I can't wait! by HartDev · · Score: 0

      This Comcast and ISP wires things is getting out of hand, what is it that is making people so greedy and anti-competitive? Really, people are at each others throats! It's wires, who cares, the internet can't be this grand thing without people sharing the hardware that connects across the globe.

      --
      To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
    2. Re:I can't wait! by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      Your point has merit to it, although I do not think that any major ISP would block access to youtube. It's just too popular, and customers would throw a fit if it was blocked. Less popular sites, torrent/pirate sites, and Linux distros might realistically be blocked (Linux distros because of all the ISOs involved). Maybe even Slashdot, because of the Slashdot effect (at least until all geeks everywhere boycott that ISP and advise n00bs asking for advice to do the same.)

    3. Re:I can't wait! by hobo+sapiens · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "From your Comcast address? No, that won't do. My hardware is not Comcast-enabled."
      Even without that, things are going that direction. I tried to send a note to a friend's hotmail address the other day. Since I use flat text formatting, it kept on getting rejected by a spam filter and I had to switch to html format to get it to go (needed MORE junk characters, amazingly enough). Gee, I'd bet those eMails would have gone through had I been using hotmail. Denying mail from other providers because it's suspected of being "spam" is really just one step away from only allowing hotmail users to talk to other hotmail users. Thanks, MSFT, for taking a perfectly portable, open, transport mechanism like SMTP and making it incompatible.

      It hit me then that the openness of the internet is under attack from many different vectors, not just on the net neutrality front.

      --
      blah blah blah
    4. Re:I can't wait! by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 2

      "Linux distros because of all the ISOs involved"

      Yes, how dare I, the consumer, use the entire amount of bandwidth that I have paid my ISP to provide to me!

    5. Re:I can't wait! by Tenebrarum · · Score: 1

      Yes, how dare I, the consumer, use the entire amount of bandwidth that I have paid my ISP to provide to me!

      If you merely consume, what does it matter what fodder you're fed?

    6. Re:I can't wait! by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 1

      Keyword bandwidth, not transfer limit.

    7. Re:I can't wait! by bmwm3nut · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It hit me then that the openness of the internet is under attack from many different vectors, not just on the net neutrality front.

      Yes, you're right, however, I don't fear the loss off "free" communication like the internet currently provides. If we do get to a stage where only Hotmail users can talk to other Hotmail users, or only Comcast customers can see Comcastnet, or whatever, it will be just like the bad old days of AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe, even local BBSes. While the "internet" or whatever we call the "internet" today may turn into a walled garden, I'm sure there will be something out there (yet to be invented) that will allow us unfettered access. As first it will be only nerd friendly (like the early days of the internet), but it will catch on. Even look at how much "freedom" the Chinese have with the internet and that's with the totalitarian government doing it's best to curtail it. For example, look at where we are with wireless mesh networking. If something happened that made the internet not free, you can bet there will be even more research into mesh networking and then you don't even have to worry about the telecom layer, you (the user) control it all.

    8. Re:I can't wait! by Adambomb · · Score: 1

      Yes, how dare I, the consumer, use the entire amount of bandwidth that I have paid my ISP to provide to me! If you merely consume, what does it matter what fodder you're fed? proper nutrition and balanced diet?
      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
    9. Re:I can't wait! by WinterSolstice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This was totally what I first thought of.

      I used to have accounts on GEnie and INN, but when a bunch of my friends got Prodigy, I had to buy Prodigy too.

      I was so excited when I got my first real "Email" from CompuServe - it was amazing. I cancelled all my other accounts and kept only CompuServe.

      Now? I guess it's just another old idea that's new again.

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
    10. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not worried about it, my shit supports X2 and V.90.

    11. Re:I can't wait! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      and Linux distros might realistically be blocked (Linux distros because of all the ISOs involved) ISP's excuse: We don't support Linux, so there's no reason for enabling you to download it.
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    12. Re:I can't wait! by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 1

      customers would throw a fit if it was blocked And go where? Dialup? If you only have one or maybe two high-speed internet providers in your area, all it takes is that one or two to block it, and there is nothing you can do besides 1) Take it, or 2) Go back to dialup.
    13. Re:I can't wait! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      If we do get to a stage where only Hotmail users can talk to other Hotmail users, or only Comcast customers can see Comcastnet, or whatever, it will be just like the bad old days of AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe, even local BBSes. While the "internet" or whatever we call the "internet" today may turn into a walled garden Basically taking the "Inter-" out of "Internet".

      ("Internet" being from "inter-network", or "network of networks".)
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    14. Re:I can't wait! by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      Customers throwing a fit has never bothered the telco's before.
      I mean, did you read the article about the old woman with
      the claw hammer yesterday? That was a fit. Did you read the
      VP's response? "Unique and inappropriate".

      They will become modern highwaymen, sitting across the lanes
      of commerce, taking a much value as they desire out of
      everything that passes by, and adding no value whatsoever.
      Till no one will go by, because they have made it impossible,
      ruining everything for everyone, including themselves.

      Stupid.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    15. Re:I can't wait! by IvanTheNotSoBad · · Score: 1

      Lucky you. I picked K56flex.

    16. Re:I can't wait! by tepples · · Score: 1

      Keyword bandwidth, not transfer limit. But if both ISPs in your area throttle GNU/Linux OS distribution to dial-up speeds, that's still over a week and a half to download a GNU/Linux DVD image. Is that desirable?
    17. Re:I can't wait! by DavidShor · · Score: 1
      "proper nutrition and balanced diet?"

      You must be new here.

    18. Re:I can't wait! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then the conections between individual providers' networks won't be between their backbones but via end users. So if you want to access a Comcast site from AOL your traffic goes through a link with an upstream bandwidth of 30 kB/s, which you share with 100 other people. Even though there might be more than one such link, bandwidth is going to stay bad.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    19. Re:I can't wait! by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      Bandwidth is bandwidth, you do not have a 10Mbit line if you throttle data access, all you have is a lie.

      A line that a corrupt administration in collusion anti-constitutional corrupt corporations which will now allow them to sell bandwidth that they know doesn't exist nor will they even attempt to provide you that bandwidth they claim to be selling to you. The payment for monitoring your calls.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    20. Re:I can't wait! by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 1

      Ok, learn what statistical multiplexing is, please. There is absolutely no way for everyone to have 10Mbps all the time.

      You multiply that out and you have an impossible number, one that can't possibly be met by any current technology. Should they restrict your line so that when you max it out, you get exactly the transfer you are allocated by the end of the month? If they did that you would have a 1Mbps line tops, and you wouldn't be able to download much of anything quickly. Most people want to be able to move things quickly but don't need to transfer 100's of gigabytes a month, theres a huge difference, especially when everyone wants to max a 10Mbps line all the time, it just doesn't work that way.

    21. Re:I can't wait! by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      Consider the old analogue phone line, you in fact did have your own line from point to point, now that you can get thousands of times the same traffic down the line, that somehow entitles companies to lie and only sell you a fraction of that line and claim it is selling the full amount.

      Solution is simple, don't lie, don't claim to sell what you don't have to sell.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. As long as by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    I can access Slashdot, I am hap NO CARRIER

    1. Re:As long as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Internet needs to be waterboarded!

    2. Re:As long as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir Rudy? Is that you?

  3. Appeal it again. by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This deregulation is a consumer's worst nightmare. We already have very limited competition in broadband service, and this promises to kill off what little there is.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    1. Re:Appeal it again. by KiltedKnight · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm sure the Verizon execs are jumping for joy over this.

      You're quite correct. Verizon screwed us as best as they could within the law (FITL), and now they're going to be able to just get their customers with all the sandpaper they can possibly use... and we're not going to have much of a choice.

      This is just further proof of why the entity that maintains the physical lines should not be allowed to also be service providers.

      --
      OCO is Loco
    2. Re:Appeal it again. by cstdenis · · Score: 1

      Government should own and maintain all of the lines and rent space on them to the (to any) ISPs. Not control over what goes over the lines, just the physical wire connecting 2 points.

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    3. Re:Appeal it again. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Well perhaps if the public gave a damn and threatened to haul out their representatives and tar and feather them, then you might see something different. It is the electorate which encourages the politicians to be whores.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Appeal it again. by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

      And the appeal will likely lose again. This isn't an issue for the courts, it's an issue with the FCC and the law. All the court said was that the FCC had the power to make that decision. The fact that the decision is likely wrong (something I agree with) doesn't effect whether or not it's legal.

      If you want a change, write to your representatives or write to the FCC. The courts just rule on what the law says, they don't write it.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    5. Re:Appeal it again. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      This is just common sense. If they aren't required to share wires, what happens? Well, one thing you get is the owner strangling competition. The other thing you get is every single provider stringing their own damn wires.

      I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees telephone poles bending under the weight of heavy fibre lines. Now imagine more of them on every pole.

      On the plus side, the increased bandwidth may help us out somewhat.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:Appeal it again. by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Government should own and maintain all of the lines and rent space on them to the (to any) ISPs. Not control over what goes over the lines, just the physical wire connecting 2 points.

      Not a bad idea, provided that by "government" you mean local governments, or better yet a bunch of private co-ops, and not a state or federal government. (Not that the federal government could provide it legally without a Constitutional amendment.)

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    7. Re:Appeal it again. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This deregulation is a consumer's worst nightmare.

      Which is exactly why it went through.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:Appeal it again. by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      The cost of deploying your own FTTN equipment and stringing your own fibre/wire is pretty prohibitive. Unless you can string up a large number of people in densely populated areas in one go, it will take years to recoup the expenses and turn up a decent return on investment. Only the biggest players can afford to foot the bills for large-scale network (re-)builds.

    9. Re:Appeal it again. by Gospodin · · Score: 1

      Government should own and maintain all of the lines and rent space on them to the (to any) ISPs. Not control over what goes over the lines, just the physical wire connecting 2 points.

      Thank goodness they already have high-speed fiber optic lines to nationalize! If the government had controlled all the communications lines all along we'd be accessing the Internet over a 50-baud coffee-can-and-string modem. This one post would take you 3 minutes to download.

      --
      ...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
    10. Re:Appeal it again. by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Based on current jurisprudence the feds could do this in a heartbeat as people engage in interstate commerce over the lines. Whether or not you agree with that is another issue altogether. If the SCOTUS says that the feds can prosecute someone who grows marijuana for their own private use because it is related to interstate commerce, then this is a cinch.

      I'm not one for having the feds do everything either, but I think that'd be the only reasonable way to regulate access to an interstate network.

    11. Re:Appeal it again. by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Better write to your representatives. The FCC is accountable to the President and Congress as far as their oversight role. The FCC don't give a shit what you think of them.

    12. Re:Appeal it again. by mitgib · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the Verizon execs are jumping for joy over this. This is just further proof of why the entity that maintains the physical lines should not be allowed to also be service providers. I've been thinking the same thing for 15 years, Judge Green is a moron, always has been, and AT&T should have been broken up by layer, not geography.
      --
      Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation
    13. Re:Appeal it again. by unitron · · Score: 1

      This is just common sense. If they aren't required to share wires, what happens? Well, one thing you get is the owner strangling competition. The other thing you get is every single provider stringing their own damn wires.

      Actually the other thing you get is that the local politicians give a monopoly on running lines in the right of way to the highest contributor, although, in fairness, putting more than one power company, one telephone company, and one cable TV company on the same poles or under the same ground is really unworkable. (I'll put up with one of each of those companies having to dig up the front yard from time to time for repair or upgrades, but not with Yet Another Utility doing it every week.)

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    14. Re:Appeal it again. by MyIS · · Score: 1

      What if a few private companies pitch in together? Becomes same thing as before, except now without legislative burden around it. Of course, oligopoly is not much better than monopoly...

      --
      http://zero-to-enterprise.blogspot.com/
    15. Re:Appeal it again. by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      We're talking investments in the billion$ here... those 'few' would have to be well-established companies that probably already own near-monopoly power on their respective turfs. These players already have the capital necessary to encroach on other players' territory if they wanted to... but most likely won't since they will have low subscriber density in new territories and their competitors may retaliate by encroaching on their territories and thinning the subscriber base there. Having lower subscriber density means less revenue on inflated network maintenance and operating expenses so having competitors for local loops is ultimately bad for both subscribers and network operators... sharing is more cost-effective for everyone and the telcos are too greedy to admit it.

      If you drop those middle-weight players from the plan, all that is left is ADSL/phone resellers who lease the telcos' loops. Most of these companies have only few thousand customers with revenues in the low millions. Even if you put 100 of them together, they probably still would have a very hard time financing the deployment of their own local loops or fiber drops and properly maintain them. Also, there would inevitably be power struggle and mergers among them for dominion over at least parts of that network. Forming a non-profit co-op for this task might have a slim chance of working.

      Forcing telcos to lease loops at reasonable rates to other service providers is much better, deregulating this was a horrible and unforgivable (but thankfully reversible) mistake. We already have cable, phone/ADSL and FiOS/FTTN/FTTP/FTTH/etc., we do not need multiple sets of local loops and more of everything else: unnecessary infrastructure duplication only increases deployment, maintenance and operating costs.

  4. If you dont like it... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ... don't give them your money. Humans survived the ice age, stone age etc without the internet why can't you?

    --
    http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    1. Re:If you dont like it... by techpawn · · Score: 2

      How are we not suppose to give monopolies our money? In some sections that's the only option for internet. How much backbone fiber is AT&T?

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:If you dont like it... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      That's easy, dont subscribe to their service. You don't NEED it.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    3. Re:If you dont like it... by Pojut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will give you a very good reason why. The Internet is mankind's single greatest invention.

      Not antibiotics. Not the motor vehicle. The Internet. Why?

      Information has been given the ability to travel the entire globe in less than the time required for you to read this post. Think about that. A coup could happen in an African country, and literally the entire planet could know about it within five minutes. A discovery for an infectious disease could be made at some remote lab in Antarctica...five minutes later, the whole world would know.

      Information between teachers, doctors, scientists, philosophers, religious figures....the collective knowledge of our entire species is just a point and click away.

      That's why.

    4. Re:If you dont like it... by Uthic · · Score: 1

      I always thought writing was. Oh well.

    5. Re:If you dont like it... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Actually, I do. Unless you're willing to personally fork over enough cash to meet my needs for the next few decades.

      Now, as to Cable, Satellite, or Landline phones...

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    6. Re:If you dont like it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and furries... don't forget the furries. :(

    7. Re:If you dont like it... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      To me, writing was an important invention as well...however, by itself, writing is limited by A. the speed in which you could put the letters on paper or what-have-you, B. the speed in which you could make copies of what you had written, and C. The speed in which you could circulate those copies.

      The Internet completely sidesteps all of those things.

    8. Re:If you dont like it... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      No, I won't /wrists...however, I will sit and watch one of the most complicated and useful tools that we as humans have created be destroyed.

      The Internet didn't used to be a bunch of bullshit...but I (kind of) agree with you, it is quickly becoming that. It's purpose is slowly being forgotten as it is being inundated by advertisements, scams, and general greed...just like everything else our species creates.

    9. Re:If you dont like it... by yuriks · · Score: 1

      Information between teachers, doctors, scientists, philosophers, religious figures....the collective knowledge of our entire species is just a point and click away. ...and porn, must not forget the porn.
    10. Re:If you dont like it... by 644bd346996 · · Score: 1

      How much fiber is owned by Google? I think they'll be moving into the monopoly-busting business over then next few years.

    11. Re:If you dont like it... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      My 1TB raid says you are correct

    12. Re:If you dont like it... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Just think about that statement for a moment. Think about how different almost everything (literally) was back then. Think about people's/society's expectations. Just take a moment to let the stupidity sink in.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    13. Re:If you dont like it... by slashqwerty · · Score: 1
      It's purpose is slowly being forgotten

      So what you're saying is we need to set up an annual day of remembrance so no one will forget that the internet is here to make sure we can communicate our retaliation plans when we're struck by a Nuclear attack.

    14. Re:If you dont like it... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      Yes, people actually SOCIALISED back then

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    15. Re:If you dont like it... by jagdish · · Score: 1

      the collective knowledge of our entire species is just a point and click away.

      Just like the Borg.

    16. Re:If you dont like it... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      It seems you have a pretty stone-aged view of... well... everything. I was going to say socialising, but you don't seems to see much difference between the stone age and now. Certainly not enough to notice that it's stupid to think we can just change parts of modern society for stone-age equivalents.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    17. Re:If you dont like it... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter what era you choose, how about the 1950s then. No internet, people still survived.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    18. Re:If you dont like it... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter what era you choose
      Agreed, but the further from the present you go, the more you have to change in order to make one little change work. There are a lot of things we have now that we didn't have in the stone age or the 50s, but there are good reasons why we acquired and continue keep them. Sure you can say that everyone back then survived without internet, but that doesn't mean we could, because we have evolved as a society to rely on such things. Individuals especially can't be expected to live without certain modern tools, because that puts them at great disadvantages. Sure you could take the internet away from everyone tomorrow, but certain changes would be inevitable. If you changed enough, society would start looking a lot like the 1950s.
      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    19. Re:If you dont like it... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      There area many people TODAY in this era that do not have internet nor care about it. They also get on fine. I would even argue they are more free because of it.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    20. Re:If you dont like it... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      I thought that was coming, but the fact is, they are at a disadvantage. Everyone who has the use of internet the choice not to use it (which I notice that you currently not exercising). The people who don't have internet access are forced to make the sacrifices that we would have to make to forgo internet access. It doesn't make it good, and it doesn't mean everyone else should be able to live the same way. Some people have based their careers and income sources on the internet.

      As for your comment about "being free", it's ridiculous. The internet has many benefits, and it doesn't enslave any more than you want it to or let it. All this stuff that sounds good like "people who don't use X modern invention" or "Y social protocol" are more free/better/purer sounds good, but falls apart under any real scrutiny. It comes down to this: use the internet if you can, or don't. You're as free as you want to be.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  5. I thought the internet was deregulated by nature, and that censorship is something that's simply routed around.

    I'd think that website discrimination would work much the same way, although I could be wrong...

    1. Re:Wait by janrinok · · Score: 1

      I thought the internet was deregulated by nature, and that censorship is something that's simply routed around.

      Yes, of course you are correct however, not in America it seems. Elsewhere, and for the moment, we seem to be faring somewhat better. Nevertheless, I am sure that someone, somewhere, will come along and spoil it all for us as well.

      --
      Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
    2. Re:Wait by wasabii · · Score: 1

      Eh. If it requires government interference to keep the internet deregulated by nature, then it is in fact regulated.

      Man, some people really don't understand the term regulated. Regulated, controlled or monitored or managed by government.

      If the FCC says to Comcast, "No, you cannot do X Y and Z with your lines," then that is in fact REGULATION. The lack of the FCC saying something is DEREGULATION.

    3. Re:Wait by idontgno · · Score: 1

      John Gilmore expressed that idea in 1994, a time when no one seemed to own the wires and information really did want to be free.

      Well, it looks like the wide-open range has been fenced and platted and farmed, and the content barons don't take kindly to scruffy freedom-loving trappers and injuns and migrants traipsing around on "their" territory. (Of course it's theirs: they have legal exclusive title, signed off by the government and everything!)

      It would take an extreme of DIY spirit to "route around" a local monopoly on last-mile infrastructure. If CableCo Inc. is the only internet game in town, you will take what CableCo gives you and you will like it, or you just do without internet.

      Competition is probably the best hope for salvation, except that the corporates know that competition is soo much worse for profits than a little quiet collusion.

      I saw this crap coming back in '91, when the NSF started permitting commercial content on NSFNET. In almost any arena of interests, commercial interests crowd out all others.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:Wait by RingDev · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem isn't censorship, it's competition. Right now, if the copper running to your house is owned by Company A, and Company A offers Internet Service, and Company B wants to provide you with Internet Services, Company A is required to share the copper they laid with Company B. What this ruling does is allow Company A to tell Company B to take a hike. The consumer (you) now has no choice for internet service because the company that owns the copper determines what options you have.

      So, if Company A were to drop prices significantly, and crush all local competitors, thus ensuring that they have a strangle hold on the local area's ISP offerings, they can then jack prices up as high as they want and the consumers will have no other options for providers.

      I would guess this could also have some higher stream issues if some major back bone provider decided that it didn't want to allow data from some other provider at that level. That might be route able to still get through, but if they blocked it all the way to the last mile, you'd never get that data.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    5. Re:Wait by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      Actually deregulation is the reversal of a long-standing and sensible regulation that was one of the few things good about the FCC. Forcing competition on publicly paid for lines is a very good idea in my mind. If we hadn't sunk so much of our tax dollars into laying cable then I wouldn't have a problem with deregulation. Since we've spent billions and continue to spend billions I'm not interested fewer restrictions on powers which have proven time and time again capable of acting not in the best interests of their customers.

      If they didn't have a natural monopoly things would be a lot simpler, since they do in the majority of places we need regulation to ensure there is continued growth. Look how slowly FiOS is being deployed to see an example of why deregulation is bad. The only reason there have been any deployments of it is because we've demanded it. Unfortunately like everything else it seems in the current administration there is no benchmark to measure success so you see a very slow adoption rate with continued tax-payer funding without the tax-payers seeing the benefit. Instead Verizon is posting enormous amounts of profit which they do have a right to make but they either need to pay back the tax-payers for assistance or they need to accept regulation.

    6. Re:Wait by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Company A doesn't even need to lower their prices. They can just tell the CLECs to take a hike. DSL will be provided by your local phone monopoly (AT&T, Qwest, Verizon) or your local cable monopoly (Comcast, TWC, Adelphia, etc.). If you're lucky enough to live in an area served by several cable companies, you might have enough competition to get slightly-better-than-subpar prices and performance.

      What really makes me chuckle is that in the name of deregulation, we're getting monopolies.

    7. Re:Wait by finkployd · · Score: 1

      You have to get on the internet before you can route around anything. The last mile is a chokepoint the telcos want to ensure only they control. At that level, any censorship they want to impose is impossible to route around.

    8. Re:Wait by meburke · · Score: 1

      Hmmmm. In my area (Houston, TX) I'm not aware of any Federal, State or local subsidies for telco infrastructure paid for through tax dollars. That doesn't mean they don't exist or haven't existed, it just means I'm not aware of them. How does this work in your area and how did you research/discover the public funding?

      --
      "The mind works quicker than you think!"
  6. That's captitalism. Get used to it. by calebt3 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Just so long as there are more than two or three competing telecoms, I don't see much of a problem here. Hopefully, they will compete for the business of third-party ISPs. And I do not mean compete for their customers.

    1. Re:That's captitalism. Get used to it. by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      There's barely two or three competing telcos in any one place as it is, this is just going to make it worse.

    2. Re:That's captitalism. Get used to it. by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      My grandparent post did sound a little harsh, didn't it? I had forgotten about the geo-monopolies.

    3. Re:That's captitalism. Get used to it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just so long as there are more than two or three competing telecoms

      Uh, there's one in any given location, that's why the regulation was there in the first place.

      Hopefully, they will compete for the business of third-party ISPs.

      Sorry, that one telco can now just turn off any of the other DSL ISPs whenever they feel like it. The third-party ISPs will either grovel and shovel over a wad of cash to stay on, or they call their customers and tell them how nice it's been, but goodbye.

      Presumably someone will eventually invest a trillion dollars in wiring up a second telephone network, but that'll be a while since any sane investor will realize that once the trillion dollars is sunk, AT&T will simply refuse to connect the phone networks together, and the company will crash and burn faster than MCI's "in network" calling plans. Until then, the third party DSL ISPs exist at the telcos' whims, and when they are cut off, your choices will be between one telco's DSL, one cable company's cable, and dialup or wireless/satellite.

    4. Re:That's captitalism. Get used to it. by Braxton_Bragg · · Score: 0

      Great, we have been paying outrageous rates for years for the telcos to build their infrastructure and this is the "thanks" we get. Thank goodness the carpetbagger (non-nepotism ) nig-nog Powells are running the show , we'll get a good hearing in Washington - whoops, not !!

  7. Fine... pay the government back, then. by glindsey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You want to deny everybody else access to the wires you laid on public easements, using grants, subsidies, and tax breaks given to you by the government? Fine. Pay all of the back leasing costs and taxes that were handed to you so you could establish your geo-monopolies everywhere. Sounds fair to me.

    1. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by garcia · · Score: 1

      Pay all of the back leasing costs and taxes that were handed to you so you could establish your geo-monopolies everywhere.

      It's apparent to me that they have already paid the government back for all of that. If they hadn't, the government wouldn't be so happy to tear down the walls for them.

      Oh, you meant pay it back so that it would somehow benefit the consumer? LOL.

    2. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      Hum sorry but to nitpick but there's no reason to pay back a tax-break at least no more than a "mugging-break".

      Granted the lines that were built by the government should be auctionned and the proceeds given to the taxpayers.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    3. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      With interest and after you account for inflation.

    4. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by vanyel · · Score: 1

      That is actually the right solution: the last mile should be public property, just like roads, sewer and water. Then the telcos, cablecos and isps all get access on equal footing.

    5. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by andy314159pi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He isn't talking about tax breaks; he is talking about direct infrastructure investment made on behalf of the people of the United States that is now being used for profit by private companies. That, by itself, is not problematic, so long as the the companies have equal access to the infrastructure and the profit making remains entirely competitive.

    6. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by andy314159pi · · Score: 1
      No, he very clearly says

      You want to deny everybody else access to the wires you laid on public easements, using grants
      Those wires were laid with public money or money granted by the public. The construction of great portions of the internet infrastructure has been funded by the public for years. Returning that money is what he is talking about.
    7. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      That is not quite true. There are other alternative to the free market than fascism, nazism, communism or socialism come to mind. "Fascism" is but one brand of socialism, there are others, varying by degree and ideology.

      This was Mr Accurate's minute.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    8. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Look, it's simple: either you believe in the free market, in which case deregulation is a good thing as it will open up the market that regulation is currently closing off, or you believe in fascism. It's that simple.
      Ah yes, the good old false dichotomy, tool of the intellectually challenged.

      Regulated market != fascism, Mr. AC. Try to learn what terms mean before you use them in sentences.

      Furthermore, when the regulated market actually increases competition, you could say that it decreases any tendency towards fascism.

      The "billions of dollars" that people like to claim the US government "gave" to the telcos came mostly in the form of loosened regulations that allowed them to raise prices, as well as in the form of tax breaks.
      No. It came in the form of easements, of government purchase of private land then granted to the telcos, and of the award of cash grants.

      Perhaps you should bother getting an education before you spout your nonsensical high-school free-market ideology -- and before you comment on a particular subject, why not bother to actually have done some background research so you know what you're talking about?

      BTW, nice troll.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    9. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hum sorry but to nitpick but there's no reason to pay back a tax-break at least no more than a "mugging-break".

      When you have had a mugging-break and then stop taking care of the muggers you better expect you'll be paying back that "mugging-break" plus some loan shark style interest.

      Granted the lines that were built by the government should be auctionned and the proceeds given to the taxpayers.

      And then we are right back to the case where one entity owns and controls the lines.
    10. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you petition your local government to rescind the grant of monopoly, use eminent domain powers to gain control of the lines, and then lease them access to ISPs?

    11. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by krunk7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Look, it's simple: either you believe in the free market, in which case deregulation is a good thing as it will open up the market that regulation is currently closing off, or you believe in fascism. It's that simple.

      Yeah! that's telling them! Your either Good or Evil, Capitalist of Communist, good with God or a baby eater!

      Don't be a dunce. There's no such thing as complete deregulation except in anarchy. In any system of government, local, federal, you name it any system of government there is regulation. And there is enforcement of regulations. That's what government is. For example, "You may not use monopoly status to leverage competition in other markets." This is a regulation that maintains free and equal competition, the very core of Adam Smith's capitalism.

      I love how many self proclaimed capitalists and free market advocates fail to understand their founders work.
      Here's some quote's from Smith that clearly outline his feelings on keeping big business in check:

      • Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.
      • People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.
      • As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.
      • The rate of profit... is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin.
      • The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state ....[As Henry Home (Lord Kames) has written, a goal of taxation should be to] 'remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.
      • Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate differences between masters and their workmen, its counsellors are always the masters. When the regulation, therefore, is in favor of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favor of the masters.
      • We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations [that is, unions or colluding organizations] of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labor above their actual price.
      And my personal favorite:

      "Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate differences between masters and their workmen, its counsellors are always the masters. When the regulation, therefore, is in favor of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favor of the masters."
      So yeah, buddy, I'm a Capitalist with a capital C. I advocate free and fair markets. And I, like the father of capitalist theory and the invisible hand, am not so dense as to think that deregulation, for the simple fact of being deregulation, is a good thing.

      But you keep drinking that cool aid.

    12. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      In 1898 Congress voted ina sur-tax on telecommunication (in its infancy) to pay the costs of the Spanish American War. That war ENDED before the tax could be implemented. Regardless, the law was the law and from 1898 till its repeal in 2005 the governemnt collected money ont his tax. You were allowed to request a refund (fill out a zillion forms- but your refund was only for the last 3 years it existed (I think it was 3 years). Phone companies may steal, but government steals more and with their help...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    13. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 1

      Look, it's simple: either you believe in the free market, in which case deregulation is a good thing as it will open up the market that regulation is currently closing off, or you believe in fascism.


      What free market? There is no free market in the telecom industry. I can't go outside and dig up the streets and put poles and cable on people's treelawns. Only a couple companies can do that because the government gave them special rights that the rest of us don't have.

    14. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      I advocate free and fair markets. You can't have free and fair. You can only have one or the other.

      --
      Deleted
    15. Re:Fine... pay the government back, then. by krunk7 · · Score: 1

      This depends on your definition of free. With the strictest definition of free, no one no where is ever free. Ever. Unless your a hermit completely removed from society. But that self imposed isolation would take from you the freedom to see an concert, a good movie, or find love. So even there your not free.

      Many a philosopher has posed this question and discussed it in depth. In general, all come to some variation of the conclusion that ultimate/true freedom is defined by the ability to take any action you wish so long as it does not hurt another individual through direct intentional action.

      It's not a great mental challenge to extend that to the business world. And just like with individuals, the degree of restriction and penalty (if any) will vary. Within capitalist ideology, that boundary stops when companies become anti-competitive in their actions and practices. Or when lack of restrictions/regulations facilitate a non-fair market.

      Supporting non-fair markets is anti-Capitalist. It is, in fact, a sign of Corporatism. I am not a Corporatist which carries its own brand of anti-free legislation and restrictions that favor large corporate entities, but a Capitalist. Whose restrictions favor fair trade and equal competition.

  8. What difference does it make? by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The essential problem is the tendency to accelerate the concentration of wealth. Owners can always find proxies to hide the influence of a media outlet. Small players can print any limited distribution screed they want, but it takes a major daily, or a cable channel or a decent powered radio or TV station to get the mass coverage, and those are all going to big corporate ownership. Of course, you don't have to watch, read, or listen, or, especially, believe.

    1. Re:What difference does it make? by RevHawk · · Score: 1

      The internet is our last hope to avoid destruction. I completely and wholeheartedly believe that and have believed it for a while now. An open accessable, neutral network with unlimited capacity for information of all kinds. I am empowered to learn almost anything known to mankind just by having a connection. By allowing corporate control and manipulation of this connection, our leaders and even the courts now (who are too naive, corrupt, and/or ignorant to even understand the absolute BASICS of technology), we have begun to lose our last hope. Libraries are turning into glorified video rental places/censored internet terminals. TV/Books/Magazines/Movies - everything is being consolidated and controlled to present a single set of images and ideas. Let this go people, and you are sacrificing our future. For once I have to say, won't somebody please think of the children?

    2. Re:What difference does it make? by SaDan · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should start looking at WISPs in your area. If you don't have any, maybe you should start one.

    3. Re:What difference does it make? by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 1
      It is beginning to look like we will have to fight for a free Internet, one that is not just another top down distribution system for "content." It's too bad, I am big fan of information being free, even though it is inanimate and has no intrinsic desires.


      It is a political problem, and our current politics are based on bribery and commercial media. Public campaign financing also has problems, but candidates can say almost anything if they pay for it, and not be called on it by the "journalists" at Faux News, unless they are Democrats.

      Excuse my bitterness, the Air America station was just shut down in Austin.

    4. Re:What difference does it make? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The essential problem is the tendency to accelerate the concentration of wealth.
      You aren't allowed to say that because it sounds vaguely Marxist. And we all know that the accumulation of capital in fewer hands is not really happening, despite what the facts and observation may lead you to believe. We know that it could not be happening because Marx and Engels said it would. And if they were right, then we'd all have to off ourselves.
    5. Re:What difference does it make? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Public campaign financing also has problems, but candidates can say almost anything if they pay for it, and not be called on it by the "journalists" at Faux News, unless they are Democrats.

      Or republican.

      Falcon
  9. Thus was born the RadioShack ISP by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 3, Funny

    Radio Shack will finally have an incentive to start a Universal Adapter ISP that'll bridge the various parts of the internet, which all use slightly-different-sized plugs to transmit data.

    1. Re:Thus was born the RadioShack ISP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello, and welcome to 2007. It must have been a long journey from 1987! While you recover from time-travel jetlag, let me fill you in on the history you have missed.

      George Bush is president, Communism has collapsed in the Soviet Union, Microsoft rules technology, and if you step into Radio Shack asking for anything but a cell phone, music player, or battery-operated toy, the clerks will look at you like you're from outer space. The Tandy didn't pan out.

  10. Joyous day! by Orange+Crush · · Score: 1

    This is wonderful news! We can finally return to the exciting days of Prodigy, Compuserve, Delphi and AOL-esque walled-garden networks! No more pesky public websites that haven't paid their dues to the gatekeepers! Finally the network operators will have total control over their infrastructure that was built entirely with private funds with all lines running in under and above their own private land.

  11. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Can I start my telecom from my garage?

  12. Deregulation = political term by MobyDisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This "regulation" was a step toward making sure that companies could compete evenly and fairly, by limiting the power of a government-granted monopoly. How is allowing the monopoly to grow unabated and block competition equal to deregulation? It isn't.

    If we changed the law so that banks didn't have to follow standard accounting practices, would that be "deregulation" or "a complete nightmare?" If we removed the requirements that food be edible and properly labeled, would that be "deregulation" too? How about we just eliminate the rule of law, and the constitution, and clear-up a whole lot of regulations?

    1. Re:Deregulation = political term by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately this is the default argument for certain easily-influenced politicians trying to rebrand their vote as "fighting big government".

    2. Re:Deregulation = political term by happyemoticon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that they're been able to reach monopoly status during a period of regulation which limited their ability to abuse this status. Competition is supposed to be the force which ensures people will not be taken advantage of, and that they will see the fruits of productivity gains. However, removing the restraints on their powers does not instantly create competition, and the fact that the companies still have de facto monopoly status, tons of resources and no regulation virtually ensures that the customer's going to get fucked.

    3. Re:Deregulation = political term by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      How is allowing the monopoly to grow unabated and block competition equal to deregulation? It isn't.

      Actually it is equivalent to deregulation if there were regulations disallowing it before. However such a regulation is one I support.

      Falcon
  13. Am i the only one... by mariushm · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who doesn't understand if this is good or bad?

    "Big telecom companies seem to have won big with the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling upholding FCC's ruling deregulating the Internet."

    Big telecom companies seems to have won - that's bad, i guess.
    3rd ...of Appeals  ruling upholding FCC's ruling deregulating .... ruling ruling.. so what it means, it won't against this court, which means the ruling according FCC ruled deregulation is no longer rule... really, I'm confused.

    It's good or bad?

    1. Re:Am i the only one... by pwnies · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bad for the end-user, champagne and fine chocolates for the big name telcoms. Reason being the ISP's no longer have to share their telcom lines, whether those be fiber, phone, or coaxial. Which means for the most part, if you want internet/phone/tv you are stuck with the company that owns the cables going to your house.

    2. Re:Am i the only one... by SpeedyDX · · Score: 1

      Uh ... it's bad. At a theoretical level, "natural monopoly" sectors (of which telecommunications is a part of), should either be State/Crown Corporations or heavily, heavily regulated. Although the ultimate goal (in free market societies) of any sector is to promote competition to lead to the deregulation of the industry, it is very much impractical (if not outright impossible) for "natural monopoly" sectors. Telecomms is considered a "natural monopoly" sector because the barrier of entry is unrealistically high for any real competitors to emerge. We're not talking about pseudo-competitors who are able to lease the lines that big telcos have laid, but rather REAL competitors who lay down their own lines and govern their own lines themselves.

      (Warning: Completely hypothetical and utterly unrealistic scenario ahead; I realize that it's totally off-base, but I'm just trying to provide a frame of reference.)

      Imagine, if you will, a beach with 5 stores selling food. However, 4 of the stores don't actually control where they're getting the food. 1 store controls the supply line (analogical equivelent of the telecomm lines), and the 4 other stores can only buy food off of that 1 store. Any outside observer would assume, prima facie, that there is real competition there are 5 stores on the beach, all with similar prices and products. However, 4 of those stores are actually at the beck and call of the 5th store. That 5th store is the "real monopoly", so to speak, and the 4 other stores are the pseudo-competitors.

      In Canada, this sort of works for the DSL sector, because Bell Canada (the "real monopoly", so to speak) is HEAVILY regulated. They MUST have their prices at a certain level, and the MUST lease their lines out to pseudo-competitors at dirt cheap prices (not really, but a lot cheaper than it would if it were unregulated). Of course, thus far, I haven't touched upon the actual issue, but I will. Don't rush me.

      Now that we understand that big telcos are monopolies, here is where we get to the supposed "deregulation". The deregulation of a certain subset of rules (not ALL the rules are deregulated), in this case allowing telcos to discriminate between traffic, gives the telcos MASSIVE influence and power over the content that is brought forth via their lines.

      To bring it back to my (awfully constructed) food analogy, this would be the equivelent of the "real monopoly" store demanding that the food providers give them a share of the profits (or more practically, reduce the prices at which the food is provided to the store), or else the food will no longer be carried in any of the stores. The food providers HAVE NO CHOICE but to comply. This is because they can't go to another store to sell their wares (remember that all other stores' supply lines are controlled by the "real monopoly").

      Likewise, if big telcos demand Google a certain share of their profits, or else everyone would have to wait 10 seconds before the Google home page loads, Google HAS NO CHOICE but to comply, lest they take a massive hit on marketshare. This has limitless implications on the net as a whole.

      (Disclaimer: I have purposely left out many detailed workings and purposely made blatantly incorrect - though theoretically merited - statements to make this a simpler post to understand for those who are unfamiliar with how this works. If you feel that you should correct me or expand upon certain concepts, please feel free to do so. But please don't flame me for trying to make this an easier pill to swallow for some people. Thanks in advance.)

  14. Clarification by prestonmichaelh · · Score: 5, Informative

    After RTFA, I think some may be a little confused as to what this means from just the summary. Some seem to be interpreting this as a blow to net neutrality. As I understand it, that is not the case. What this means is that the owners of the physical lines (AT&T, Verizon, etc.) now can make independent deals with ISPs that don't own the lines (Earthlink, Speakeasy, etc.) instead of having to let them all have access.

    Where this is bad, as I see it, is that now AT&T can basically tell Earthlink that if they want to use their precious copper to bring the Intertubes to peoples homes, it will cost them eleventy billion dollars. So basically, it means AT&T gets to set the price for DSL to whatever they want, and no one else can really compete on price because AT&T can make the cost of use to the third party provider so high that they cannot compete on price. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting something.

    1. Re:Clarification by stinerman · · Score: 2, Informative

      You aren't misinterpreting anything, but the immediate consequence of decreased competition is that neutrality will more likely go by the wayside.

  15. This is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I support this ruling fully. It will enable the government and it's corporate partners to enhance their power and to socialize the internet. In a nation that is founded on socialism and tyranny (the two are inseparable) there must be full control of all media and this ruling will help pave the way for that to happen. Only the elites that run the government have rights and it is time for you people to realize this. You are here to serve the state so quit whining.

  16. What's the internet equivalent... by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    ...of rolling blackouts? And can we expect another Enron-type extortion scandal?

    1. Re:What's the internet equivalent... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      What's the internet equivalent of rolling blackouts?

      Comcast Broadband

      Can we expect another Enron-type extortion scandal?

      Yes. You don't seriously believe Kenny boy died do you?
      He got plastic surgery and a new identity from connections
      in the Bush administration and is even now masterminding a new
      round of 'deregulation'.

      I am the answer man.

    2. Re:What's the internet equivalent... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Comcast Broadband

      Actually, I think Comcast is more of a brownout ... in other words, it still works, just not as well as it used to.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:What's the internet equivalent... by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Can we expect another Enron-type extortion scandal?

      Yes. You don't seriously believe Kenny boy died do you?


      They killed Kenny???

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  17. thank god for the silver lining by hxnwix · · Score: 3, Funny

    In the end, the free market will win and the internet will stop being free. It's to be expected given that the same thing has already happened in meat space.

    The only thing left to do is to buy stock in the telcos. That way, you can preserve your dignity by claiming that whereas everyone else is merely raped by the telcos, you are actually raping yourself.

    1. Re:thank god for the silver lining by baggins2001 · · Score: 1

      The only thing left to do is to buy stock in the telcos. That way, you can preserve your dignity by claiming that whereas everyone else is merely raped by the telcos, you are actually raping yourself. I'd think of it more as masturbating while thinking about an ugly girl.

      --
      He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
    2. Re:thank god for the silver lining by andrewd18 · · Score: 1

      It's to be expected given that the same thing has already happened in meat space.
      MeatSpace? Is that a new website mixing MySpace and CraigsList's male-to-male personal ads?
    3. Re:thank god for the silver lining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... pretty much

  18. Headline Doublespeak - deregualtion is regulation by Aire+Libre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It amazes me how the press gets sucked into the lingo. This is not at all a ruling in favor of deregulation. To the contrary, it is a ruling authorizing private regulation of the Internet. Moreover, private regulation in this space is much more dangerous than government regulation because it works. The government can't do much at all to regulate the Internet, thanks in large measure to the First Amendment and thanks in no small measure to the fact that the government does not have any physical control over the transport layer. But the major ISPs do have such control, and are not bound by the First Amendment. In short, this ruling says, in plain English, "Whereas the government may not and cannot regulate communications over the Internet that are protected from suppression by the First Amendment, we hereby free those of you who have the power to suppress freedom of speech to go ahead and do so."

    --
    Aire Libre
  19. Can the free market keep this under control? by rizzo320 · · Score: 2

    I don't agree with the ruling, but I don't see the situation as being as "dire" as some suggest. I can't see a major telco blocking access to certain websites or networks due to this "deregulation". If they do, they'll be creating new markets and new competition in which they would have to compete, and probably loose.

    Lets say Verizon tries to make Google pay extra to keep the priority of traffic going to YouTube on par with other types of network traffic. Google can either payup, and keep their access, or, decide to go an alternative route, such as working with a different provider to get access to the end user, or build their own network that renders parts of Verizon's network useless. Small providers will collaborate to stay in competition with big ones. The same goes for fiber backbone, and "last mile" service. If they decide to start blocking, others will invest and build, and offer their service as an alternative to those that are blocked, or, overpriced.

    Maybe I'm too optimistic on the situation, but, what else can we hope for?

    1. Re:Can the free market keep this under control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seriously think that companies will just magically spring up with enough capital to dig up every street in the country to run NEW copper lines to every house when AT&T decides to stop allowing access to parts of the internet?

      Seriously, I want some of whatever drug produces such irrational optimism.

    2. Re:Can the free market keep this under control? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with the ruling, but I don't see the situation as being as "dire" as some suggest. I can't see a major telco blocking access to certain websites or networks due to this "deregulation". If they do, they'll be creating new markets and new competition in which they would have to compete, and probably loose.

      And where is this competition going to come from? If I own the infrastructure, cable or phone lines, and say you can't use it, either you can't offer any service or you have to pay billions of dollars to build your own infrastructure. But you can only build it if you are given permission to use the Right of Way by the government or pay the individual property owners. And there's hardly anyone who will pay the billions of dollars without a good probability of earning more money from it.

      Falcon
    3. Re:Can the free market keep this under control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so.
      For there are these things called "barriers to entry" into the telecom market. Essentially, it's prohibitively expensive for a person to just say to himself "I'm going to start a telecom company." Nobody is going to back him (because he's going up against AT&T and the like) and he'll never be able to get it off the ground unless he has a lot of money to start with.

      Not just that, but the cost of setting up all that infrastructure means you're going to have to go deep into debt before you can even dream of seeing a profit. This is why certain industries such as telecom and power-generation are called "natural monopolies."

  20. What does this mean for Speakeasy? by gambolt · · Score: 1

    Am I going to have to switch to SBC small business to keep my current level of connectivity?

  21. Before this goes too far by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't want them to pay back all the public funds they were give, or the tax breaks etc.

    What I want is to know what percentage of their infrastructure was built with public funds and tax breaks and so on, if that is 45% then I want a 45% discount on my monthly bill.

    For every site that I am unable to reach because of their deregulation, I want compensation on my monthly bill. For every censored email, I want compensation.

    Don't tell me that your 'public internet access' I pay for will only access content you approve of. I will not buy a special car to drive on restricted roads. I will not pay for two services to access both Google and Yahoo. I will simply sue every time I am denied access based on their censorship. Yes, I realize that there may not be any basis for that in law, but we must do something to let them know what their consumers want.

  22. Key passage from TFA by TheWoozle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But lawyers for the FCC argued that the agency properly decided to abandon the regulations because they "imposed significant costs" on telephone companies, "thereby impeding innovation and investment in new broadband technologies and services."
    Of course the big telcos don't want to roll out snazzy new broadband lines if they have to bear the cost of R&D and deployment, and then immediately allow competitors to use their brand new high-speed lines at the price the government insists on. I mean, their competitors can just lay new fiber optic lines themselves, right?

    Oh, wait...the government created the whole mess in the first place with geographical monopolies on the right to run telephone lines, muddied the waters even more by declaring that cable companies are "information services" and thus don't have to share *their* lines, and now want to wash their hands of it and stand back and watch Joe Consumer take it up the ass.

    On a *completely* unrelated note, I suggest that any group of politicians hereafter be called a clusterfuck. (e.g., A herd of cattle, a gaggle of geese, a murder of crows, a clusterfuck of politicians).
    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
    1. Re:Key passage from TFA by stinerman · · Score: 1

      I really don't think cable companies should have to open up their lines. AFAIK, all their investment was private. The public telephone networks were largely built with government money. If Verizon, AT&T, and Qwest want to take their lines private, they can buy the infrastructure from us.

    2. Re:Key passage from TFA by rhendershot · · Score: 1

      , a clusterfuck of politicians


      but that's just repetitive and redundant ;)
    3. Re:Key passage from TFA by wytcld · · Score: 1

      the government created the whole mess in the first place with geographical monopolies on the right to run telephone lines
      Do you know why? Telephone lines came after railroads. Railroads were a great speculative bubble where the modern equivalent of hundreds of billions of dollars was lost because competing companies built redundant track to everywhere. (A bit like the internet cable buildout in the 90s.) Fortunately there was still plenty of empty land most places to lay that track across - often granted the railroads for free.

      When it came time to build telephone systems, which were a obvious boon to many aspects of society and business, the investors didn't want to face the same staggering losses they'd faced building railroads. This dovetailed with the fact that the "last mile" end of all those phone lines was often going into densely-populated areas. Nobody wanted to see lines from a half-dozen different phone companies (plus a half-dozen different electric companies) all tangled up above their streets - and this was at a time when electrical transmission lines of a single company used many more wires than with our present tech, and when phone lines were expensive enough to provision that most residences shared them as party lines.

      So it was in part "government" helping out "business interests," but it was also largely "the people" using their power through elective government to prevent private firms from turning their towns and cities into complete cobwebs.

      A truck knocked down the utility poll in front of my house a couple of weeks ago. Since it had electric (with a transformer and streetlight), phone and cable strong on it, it was more than a full day's work for about eight men from the three companies replacing the poll and reinstalling everything on it. If there were a half-dozen each of electric, phone and cable companies with kit strung to that poll, it would have easily taken them a week-and-a-half to rebuild it. We would have a ridiculously fragile infrastructure with that sort of "unregulated, free market" regime.
      --
      "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  23. Fine with it... by usmc0656 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I understand why a lot of you are upset over this, but at the same time see it from the company's perspective. They paid for the lines, the installation, the maintenance, etc... Then you have the government come in and say, "Well that's nice, but in the interest of "fairness" you need to let other companies who didn't drop a dime for the hardware use it...and take business away from you." That's like building a family business, then having the government tell you that you have to let a competing business use your facilities to compete against you.

    But since we're talking about "big evil telecom" companies, no one gives a crap. You give them shit because they control the market, well yes they do...because they helped CREATE the market. This is business...there is no fair or unfair. If you don't like their service and can't get another one...you either do without or suck it up. You have no "right" to anything they produce.

    1. Re:Fine with it... by Gaki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At some point, though, a product becomes so ubiquitous that it is no longer just a common good and has become a staple. At that point, living without it really does have social repercussions and, in the case of the Internet, we are rapidly reaching that point. How many paper resumes do you think get submitted in industrialized nations these days? If the choice was limited to getting raped by my telco and/or not having a job, that's not much of a choice is it?

      --
      I'll tolerate anything ... except intolerance.
    2. Re:Fine with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The hell we don't have a claim to it. They're running things on public land with tax breaks, government granted monopolies, subsidies, etc. In short, they're using public space and public money. If they want to not deal with us, fine. That's their choice. However, we want our public space back and them to pay back all the money we gave them to build their network. That would basically mean that they'd have to dismantle their network or buy all the space that it's using from the general public.

      Also, your analogy is false. It's like the government letting you set up shop in a public park then saying that you need to let another group use it. Yes, it's your shop, but it's in the city park. You'd always be welcome to refuse, but the city could then kick you out of the park, which would hurt you business more than letting them rent space from you.

      It's more like things with broadcast television networks. They're welcome to claim that they don't want to show what people want, however, the airwaves are owned by the US citizens (look it up). If they did that, the people would be perfectly within their rights to demand that the station stop broadcasting.

    3. Re:Fine with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Bullshit! We the citizens paid for all of that! From tax breaks, relaxed regulation, and so forth to the insane monthly bills they charge us as customers. All of those companies REFUSED to service more than 20% of the United States unless the local and federal governments gave them pretty much everything, bought and paid for by tax money, in order to expand their networks for more potental customers. It applies to both the telecos and cable operators.

      This has absolutely nothing to do with govermnet taking over business, this has to do with telecos using up public resources for their own private profits of which they're riding on the backs of their customers and local goverment citizens all in which comes to basically greed!

      Since all those lines are technically and legally owned by the public then they should be forced to farely share those lines. The only reason why the governments allowed this to happen was cause the original agreement was to help expand economic growth, but instead they've been sucking it dry. But since the government is corrupt the telecos just simply buy them off to allow them to do whatever they want essentially.

      So yeah, I have to say we have every fucking god damn right you retarded piece of shit of a fucking troll.

    4. Re:Fine with it... by usmc0656 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but again...who are we to decide that a product of a company (and their right to produce it) is ours to control? Just because you need something doesn't mean you should get it. I need food, but I don't believe you or anyone else needs to give it to me. I work for the money to pay for it. I don't ask you or anyone else to provide me with something I haven't earned and vice versa.

      No where does it say that the telco's are going to immediately end all current contracts, more than likely little will change for most people. In area's where Verizon doesn't find it profitable to offer DSL and they let another company use its lines...they're still going to let that company use the lines for a fee...as is their right. But in no way should anyone FORCE them to let that company use those lines.

      I for one, as a veteran, refuse to let my country continue to slide towards socialism quietly. Doing something "for the public good" is an affront to everything the founding fathers put down in the Constitution. Who decides who the "public" is and what is "good" for them?

    5. Re:Fine with it... by witherstaff · · Score: 1

      With universal access fees and grants the telco companies are private companies that were funded in a large part by government fees. I've seen estimates of 200 billion http://www.muniwireless.com/article/articleview/5011 and more being given to develop universal high speed coverage that never materialized.

      The '96 telco deregulation act was a step in the right direction stating that they had to share their facilities and lines because they were in fact developed with public funds. This was an 'at cost' sort of setup but was still hokey. DSL wholesale cost to another ISP was often times more than the phone company retail cost to the client - but it was at least an attempt at equity. They were glad to take the public money but were sure against having to do anything because of that.

      Then Powell's son was put in charge of the FCC and the pro business/pro monopoly rulings made deregulation go away. Now we're back to the baby bells being larger than AT&T ever was, our infrastructure being sub par compared to the rest of the industrialized world, and consumers who paid taxes for a better system still being locked in to a monopoly, or a duopoly at best.

      This decision isn't about business - this is about lobbying at its finest.

    6. Re:Fine with it... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

      Some of their equipment sits on my property, for which I receive no compensation. I'd say that should give me a some rights.

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    7. Re:Fine with it... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find the tyranny of a regulated marketplace preferable to the tyranny of a monopoly. Capitalism depends on a functioning marketplace. Now, there is no marketplace, this regulation is what made a marketplace possible. The economy is far more capitalistic with this regulation than without it.

      Socialism is when one party, the state, controls the economy. How different is it when that one party is a corporation?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:Fine with it... by Lendrick · · Score: 1

      They paid for the lines, the installation, the maintenance, etc... ...with help from government grants. If they didn't want to play fair, they shouldn't have taken the money.

      What I don't get is why conservatives get so up in arms about regular people getting any sort of government benefits, but when big companies get government benefits (no-bid contracts, public funding, no price negotiations), it's all fine and dandy. Not only is the conservative philosophy of governmental non-intervention demonstrably wrong-headed (deregulation -> Enron debacle), it's not even internally consistent (okay to give taxpayers' money to big business, but God forbid we give it to taxpayers).

      Here's an example. Recently, a small meat-packing company decided they wanted to test every cow they butcher for mad cow disease, and then label their meat to the effect that every cow had been tested. Of course, the meat packing industry jumped into the ring and proposed that such labeling be made illegal because it would drive their costs up by forcing them to test their own meat to keep pace (or drive their sales down if they didn't). And of course the big backers of these new regulations were conservatives. So it's not about deregulation at all. It's about helping big business at the expense of consumers, which usually involves deregulation. Regulations that protect big business from consumers are of course completely okay.

      Read all about this here:
      http://www.celsias.com/2007/07/12/white-house-tries-to-force-less-mad-cow-testing/

    9. Re:Fine with it... by usmc0656 · · Score: 1

      To me that's still just a great example of mismanagement of our government funds. I can't blame a company for taking the government money and breaks, then running with it, if our government hadn't so stupidly just handed it to them on silver platter. If I give some guy $100 off on a car I'm selling because he wants to use the parts to fix cars for poor local families...and then he doesn't do it, that's my fault. There was no contract and I didn't do anything to cover my ass. I'm not about to go back and say, "Well because of that, you have to let other smaller mechanics use your tools and the cars you built with those parts, because they might help those poor families." There's still that assumption that the other smaller party will help the "public" out.

      Our government acts too much like a piss poor charity foundation than what it was originally intended for. By giving the big telco's that break and the money so openly and without much regulation, they basically wasted the funds. But what's new about that.

    10. Re:Fine with it... by usmc0656 · · Score: 1

      Yes...our government does effectively control the industry when it dictates what you can sell, who you can sell it to, and what you can sell it for. That's not true capitalism. Is a monopoly a difficult thing to work with...yes it is. But the "evil" associated with it makes no sense if you want a truly capitalism based economy. You're saying that the dream of owning your own business, producing your good or service, and making money is great...unless you're the only one doing it...then its evil. The concept of a monopoly over a good or service was much easier to see decades back when the technology was hard to produce and labor intensive, but these days with the global technological bubble growing and growing its not the same world. We're punishing Microsoft because they did too good of a job at making their O/S and then bundling software with it. We're announcing telcom's as evil big business because our retarded government gave them money breaks to help build the infrastructure of the high speed data world, and then didn't move into less profitable areas due to cost versus benefit. We're punishing them because we gave them money with no strings attached and they used it to benefit themselves...so they're evil because they practice good business?

    11. Re:Fine with it... by usmc0656 · · Score: 1

      On the same token, if the government wanted them to provide it for a larger base of the public regardless of smart business practices, they would have attached milestones and stipulations to the grants. I'm not conservative by any means, I feel our government shouldn't interfere with the markets at all except to prevent force from being used to influence the market. Sadly people today want the government to baby sit them and protect them from every little thing they find to boring to pay attention to themselves. I totally agree that the smaller meat packing plant should have been left to do what it pleased with its labeling process...big business is simply playing the game by using the government's over-involvement in our market to its advantage. To me its not the issue of big business versus little business versus the consumer that is the problem...its the problem that our government causes by attempting to let politics and a horribly corrupt system dictate who gets what and who does what.

    12. Re:Fine with it... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is why conservatives get so up in arms about regular people getting any sort of government benefits, but when big companies get government benefits (no-bid contracts, public funding, no price negotiations), it's all fine and dandy. Not only is the conservative philosophy of governmental non-intervention demonstrably wrong-headed (deregulation -> Enron debacle), it's not even internally consistent (okay to give taxpayers' money to big business, but God forbid we give it to taxpayers).


      That's because Jesus loves Big Business, and hates ordinary citizens. Jesus is interested solely in profits, and America is just the kind of nation Jesus loves. Jesus hates pansy-ass socialist democrat states like Sweden, and really does desire that poor children die horribly while rich children get all the medical aid money (which Jesus loves above all else) can buy. Jesus wants the consumer to be continually fucked over by Big Business and the political whores, after all, what good would Jesus be if it wasn't for whores? So remember, Jesus hates charity, generosity, social responsibility, fair play and protection of the weak and infirm. Jesus has a fat wallet, and he sure doesn't anyone taking from it, unless they are a large pharmaceutical giant or an oil company, which Jesus really digs.

      God bless America, and fuck the American people.
      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    13. Re:Fine with it... by networkassault · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's more like this. Let's say you need bread, for instance, to survive. You can't use anything else. You need bread. Let's say that you're allergic to wheat bread, so you must eat potato bread. Let's say that the only supermarket in town produces it's own goods but also allows other groups to sell their goods in the one store. The supermarket decides to end this agreement. This normally wouldn't be bad, but one of the other companies is the only company to produce potato bread. That would cause significant problems for you. This is extreme, but you get the point. Removing available sources of goods hurts society by removing the desire for established players to innovate. For instance, there would be no reason for ISPs to invest in new high-speed transmission technologies. When you want to see the latest streaming video on YouTube HD, but you can't because your ISP never bothered to upgrade their networks because they had no competition, you'll likely feel different about allowing ISPs to block other ISPs from using their services.

      --
      "I'm glad I'm going to die because, when I do, the world's gonna go to the dogs." -Me on aging and the next generation.
    14. Re:Fine with it... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The problem largely stems from the fact that those currently in government don't seem to understand that it was taxpayer money that went in large part to creating this infrastructure. I don't have a problem with government giving money to business to build infrastructure, in fact it's an awfully good idea. The problem with the communications infrastructure is that, by and large, the telcos got to retain ownership. When a state government hires a contractor to build and maintain a highway, the contractor doesn't take ownership of the highway, rather ownership resides with the state. In much the same way, wherever public funds were used to build telecommunications infrastructure, the public should have retained at least some portion of the ownership of that infrastructure.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    15. Re:Fine with it... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      We're punishing them because we gave them money with no strings attached and they used it to benefit themselves...so they're evil because they practice good business?

      No, we gave them money with a string attached. Now we're cutting that string for no reason. It doesn't benefit the people at all, and it smacks of corruption. You're right though, the telcos aren't really to blame for seeking profit. It's the politicians who forget they're supposed to serve the people, not the corporations.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    16. Re:Fine with it... by Symbha · · Score: 1

      They did not pay for the lines. You paid for the lines. Those surcharges, and taxes on your bill are the things that paid for the lines.

    17. Re:Fine with it... by PPH · · Score: 1

      I understand why a lot of you are upset over this, but at the same time see it from the company's perspective. They paid for the lines, the installation, the maintenance, etc...
      But they installed them on my property. The public right of way, that is. And they asked me to shield them from competitors by restricting the number of competing businesses I'll allow in each service territory.

      If they want to do as they please with their hardware, fine. Just come and get it off the public right of way so we can do business with someone else.

      Then you have the government come in and say, "Well that's nice, but in the interest of "fairness" you need to let other companies who didn't drop a dime for the hardware use it...and take business away from you."
      No. The government said competitors had to be given the right to lease it from the telco. Often, these leases cost more per month than the retail charge for the telco's own service using the same loop.

      When I see a company refusing to take more money for a product they sell, I get suspicious. I start looking for where they might be making up the loss by product tying or elsewhere under the table. I start to think about antitrust, breaking up the business and maybe even throwing a few executives in prison.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    18. Re:Fine with it... by finkployd · · Score: 1

      They paid for the lines, the installation, the maintenance, etc...

      No they didn't, why do you think they were regulated in the first place? The taxpayers paid for that. Verizon and co have been getting billions from the government in the form of grants, tax breaks, and whatnot with the promise of fiber for all that they have not even come close to fulfilling. You paid for that line, they are just ensuring only they are allowed to abuse you over it. These are the same people demanding laws preventing municipalities from providing internet access.

    19. Re:Fine with it... by SoccerDad_65 · · Score: 1
      Being a Canucky, I may not have all the facts at hand, however, I'm sure in a broad sense, I'm on track:

      They paid for the lines, the installation, the maintenance, etc... Usually with the assistance of tax payers money (tax breaks, etc.)

      Then you have the government come in and say, "Well that's nice, but in the interest of "fairness" you need to let other companies who didn't drop a dime for the hardware use it...and take business away from you." Well, no, not really....I have yet to see where a competitor is using these last mile connections for free. They are paying "rent" to get their services to the [potential] customer.

      That's like building a family business, then having the government tell you that you have to let a competing business use your facilities to compete against you. I think a better analogy would be building a apartment/condo complex and having the government come along and say "you must let people rent the units"

      But since we're talking about "big evil telecom" companies, no one gives a crap. You give them shit because they control the market, well yes they do...because they helped CREATE the market. This is business...there is no fair or unfair. If you don't like their service and can't get another one...you either do without or suck it up. You have no "right" to anything they produce. Exactly the problem (which extends to other markets/goods/services as well). To be forced to like it or lump it is the pivotal monopolistic flaw. It would be interesting to see how this scenario would turn out: A community has only one car dealer and citizens are only allowed to use cars in the community from that dealer. The dealer only has one car, it's a pile of crap, unsafe and pink with purple dots, but you either "do without or suck it up". Human nature being what it is, I'd let to see the result of fast forwarding a few years in this analogy.
      Our telcos here an the GWN are trying, currently unsuccessfully, to pull the same stunts. So far, things are good...there is some choice in the marketplace and seemingly, all parties are making some $$$$....seems like a good plan to me.....
      --
      "no violence, no hate, no pain, no enemies just peace, unity, tolerence and love" - The Beloved
      Free the BC3!!
    20. Re:Fine with it... by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.

      We paid for the lines. Our tax dollars paid for the lines. The government gave them grants, subsidies, and tax write-offs to create the network.

      What the government has done is given the major telecos the right to effectively block competitors. They now have the right to charge exorbitant fees to third party ISPs who want to use the lines that our tax dollars paid for. This effectively shuts down competition, and eventually will lead to the walled-garden scenario.

      Tell me, how many ISPs in th country can afford to run their own lines through the country? How many billions do you think that would cost? How many battles do you think an ISP would need to go through to even get the rights to lay down new copper?

      To me, this is no different from any other public infrastructure. Imagine for a moment, what this would be like if instead of copper lines being laid down we were talking about roads and freeways. Imagine being charged a monthly fee for the road use form a private company, ON TOP OF paying taxes.

      I don't like getting screwed by the government or private companies. Perhaps you like taking it at both ends, but the vast majority of people don't.

      ~X~

      --
      ~X~
  24. Another parameter by Yaa+101 · · Score: 1

    In the large scheme to have the US economy locked into a grinding halt.

  25. The Conservatives finally won WW2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It may have taken them several decades, but the conservatives have finally succeeded in winning World War 2. They now have conquered Britian, and with GWB they have finally conquered America.

    Bush/Cheney succeed where Hitler/Stalin failed.

    Thank all the "values voters" and "fiscal conservatives" for selling us all out.

    1. Re:The Conservatives finally won WW2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They now have conquered Britian, and with GWB they have finally conquered America.


      Slow down there, AC. There's a lot more to America than the US.
    2. Re:The Conservatives finally won WW2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that this is remotely on-topic, but I believe the GP was referring to the United States of America, shortened to "America". Not to the continents of North America or South America, which are rarely shortened to "America", but rather to "the Americas". Besides, the Nazis did their damage to other parts of the Americas sixty years ago.

  26. Well, I have no broadband then! by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where I live, Verizon doesn't offer me DSL. But Cavalier Telephone offers me DSL, over Verizon's lines. (My neighborhood is fairly poor, so Verizon probably thinks we aren't worth it). So does that mean that I won't be able to get DSL then? If that's the case, my only option is Comcast, who doesn't allow me to use Bittorrent. So now I will have only one choice for broadband internet. And it's a company that doesn't believe in neutrality.

    Yay for deregulation!

    1. Re:Well, I have no broadband then! by usmc0656 · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the minute they can, Verizon will drop every single non-verizon company that has access to its lines...but it won't. If they don't offer that service in your area yet, you can bet they'll be more than happy to let your current provider keep using the lines...at a cost.

      Now once they offer DSL to you, then you might have to worry a bit...but until then I think a majority of people are safe.

    2. Re:Well, I have no broadband then! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      verizon wont give me DSL, I'm the only one in my neighborhood without it.

      to quote their customer service rep "God fuck yourself, you're just lucky you have phone service, we could cut that off and you couldnt do anything."

      I wish this were a lie.

    3. Re:Well, I have no broadband then! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      my only option is Comcast, who doesn't allow me to use Bittorrent.

      If you really want to use BitTorrent, you could spend twice as much and set up a proxy at a remote hosting site and then tunnel all of your traffic through the remote host.

  27. Now for a dose of reality by davmoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Its easy to get up in arms about this decision, and start poo-pooing how its going to lead to less competition. But here's the reality of the matter.

    In 2008 there will be an election in the US for President. A good chunk of Congress will also be up for grabs. And unless something really radical happens between now and then, in all likelihood the next President is going to be a Democrat, and the Democrats will hold a majority in both houses of Congress. This is what happens when a Republican President falls to a 24 percent approval rating in the polls (and Congress is doing only slightly better).

    Democrats are generally pro-consumer and love regulating things (Republicans, on the other hand, are generally pro-business, and like to deregulate). The first time one of the big telecoms tries to openly block competition, the Dems will be on it like hair on a gorilla. And even the telecoms are smart enough to know that.

    --
    I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    1. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Ah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!

      You've got to be joking. Tell me you're joking. No one is really that naive.

      Remember the joke about how the D didn't stand for "Democrat" but actually for "Disney?"

      Democrats are even more firmly in the back pocket of media giants than Republicans are. The whole reason "liberal media" got ingrained in the popular lexicon was because just how firmly Democrats were in bed with media companies.

      No, when the Democrats get in control, expect further regulation to PREVENT additional competition. They'll leave the deregulation that helped keep out competition and add further regulation that serves solely to raise the cost of entry.

    2. Re:Now for a dose of reality by t0rkm3 · · Score: 1

      Hate to point it out to you, but Congress is actually slightly worse. Bush is currently at 34.2% average while Congress is still lower at 24.8%. (All the while that people have been jacking with GWB's approval rating, Congress has consistently been lower.)

      Personally, I think the American voter is fairly fatigued and pissed off at the moment. Don't know which way that'll fall though, guess whoever manages to sway the voter more persuasively. The D's with the hand-outs for votes or the R's with tough-talk and anti-tax legislation.

      Although the way the R vs D policy has been going, if the D's presidential candidate does win your prediction will likely be spot on.

    3. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are right. Next the Democrats will create a internet tax to connect and internet sales tax to buy
      and email tax and browser tax and tcpip tax and computer tax and home office tax and all the children will have a brand new computer with free wellfare internet access payed for by these taxes.
      And everything will work better including health care because the Government is better than any company and doing everything. And it will be cheaper because the Government is so efficient.

    4. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see, who was in power for the Telecommunications Act of 1996?

      Face it, America is a one party system - the republicrats. A Democratic president / congress will be no better than what we've experienced for the past 7 years

    5. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Face it, America is a one party system - the republicrats. A Democratic president / congress will be no better than what we've experienced for the past 7 years


      So, take the time to fuck with the election. Figure out some way to tell everyone that Rudy & Hillary (etc) are assholes. I've been trying to figure out some way for 4 years now.

    6. Re:Now for a dose of reality by emurphy42 · · Score: 1

      Are you looking at the approval rating of Congress overall, or of individual congressmen among their constituents? The latter is routinely higher than the former.

      (Not getting into any of your other points, don't have enough time)

    7. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Agripa · · Score: 1

      So which box is next?

      There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.

    8. Re:Now for a dose of reality by photomonkey · · Score: 1

      Just like they did with the Iraq thing? Or Healthcare? Or when the put Kerry up against Bush?

      Not trying to sound like a troll, but I think that the belief that "the other team" will fix it has been proven false.

      --
      Message contains 1 attachment: spam.gif
    9. Re:Now for a dose of reality by davmoo · · Score: 1

      I'm not trolling either (nor do I think you were), but "They" didn't put Kerry against Bush...the American people did (although I have to admit that the choices all around in the last round of primaries rather sucked...the best choice in both parties would have been "none of the above").

      --
      I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    10. Re:Now for a dose of reality by jayp00001 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure you know what the democrat party stands for. Maybe 40 years ago or so they might have been pro consumer but for the last 15 or so they are patently anti-consumer and pro nanny-state regulation.

    11. Re:Now for a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idiot box, actually.

      You too can abuse Television and Internet to produce the outcome you want. It's difficult, but you can do it.

  28. Telecom Giveaways by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    I wonder how much of these telecom giveaways, including this half-handed "deregulation" that will let telcos do to the rest of the Internet what they did to DSL competitors (ie. kill it), and the NSA spying immunity, are grabbed because telcos just have all kinds of evidence incriminating politicians fool enough to talk openly on their phones?

    Such a power can never be broken. Not with the existing generation of crooked politicos, with no relief in the foreseeable future.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Telecom Giveaways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I wonder how much of these telecom giveaways, including this half-handed "deregulation" that will let telcos do to the rest of the Internet what they did to DSL competitors (ie. kill it), and the NSA spying immunity, are grabbed because telcos just have all kinds of evidence incriminating politicians fool enough to talk openly on their phones?"

      None.

      But then I'm not a mentally deficient paranoid troll, so I can't really see it from you perspective.

      And now it's 20 straight republican tickets cunt, you have only yourself and your humongous ego to blame.

  29. On a related note.. by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8SCEBLG0&show_article=1

    This might be off-topic, but it seems relevant. It appears Comcast is blocking traffic.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  30. Needed a dumb and maybe even a dumber tier anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of folks don't understand either the net or it's potential.

    Why should they want, need or get an open network?

  31. Screw the nationals. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

    The problem is, it's your LOCAL reps that could be doing the most good in this situation!

    The telco's screw you on your local service. It's the wires to your house, your street, your neighborhood. It's not the big ass trunk-lines that connect your city to the next city.

    If everyone leans on their city council reps, or their county council reps, or their mayor, and pushes for their city/county to make cable within their county/city a public utility, the telco's will be left with nothing. Lot of communities are looking for this already, because they want a better fibre rollout than the big companies are doing.

    You want to yell at someone...Yell at someone who lives in your town, and can actually do something about your local situation. This stuff should be like your water/sewer utility, locally bought, locally paid for, and locally accountable. Hold AT&T accountable? No way! They could afford to piss off whole states more less your little town. But hold a local company accountable? One that has no customers outside your county? Hell yea.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Screw the nationals. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Clarification: "Cable" in this context is "Fibre, pipe, bandwidth, information infrastructure" not "Cable TV"

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  32. not to mention by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    caturday

    AYBABTU

    IKISSYOU

    dancing hamsters and dancing babies

    etc.

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:not to mention by Pojut · · Score: 1

      That just proves my point...the internet can be used for entertainment, which just lends to it's versatility

  33. Deregulation = correct term by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "How is allowing the monopoly to grow unabated and block competition equal to deregulation?"

    Are you really that stupid?

    Before- regulations
    Now- no regulations

    It's really not hard.

  34. The entire country just got fucked again by Bush by DrJimbo · · Score: 1
    ... and we didn't even get a tee shirt.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  35. 13 Mbit DSL in Tokyo... by gillbates · · Score: 1

    But never in New York.

    It really saddens me that those agencies charged with upholding the public trust and regulating natural monopolies to prevent their abuse have actually been using their power to turn the United States into a technological backwater. It won't be long before third world countries have better technology infrastructure than we, and unfortunately, we the consumer will foot the bill.

    Nothing like the Telcos getting rich as the US falls farther and farther behind, technologically speaking. Nothing like trashing your home country's economy for the sake of short term profit, eh?

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:13 Mbit DSL in Tokyo... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      It won't be long before third world countries have better technology infrastructure than we, and unfortunately, we the consumer will foot the bill. Depending on how broad your definition of third world country is, many already do.
  36. I blame George W. Bush by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a Democrat and loyal Slashdot user, I blame the Jew puppet Bu$Hitler Chimpy McHaliburtin

    Instead he blows the heads off children in Iraq for his amusement.
    Oh well, every dead soldier is one less Republican vote and one more victory for us Democrats

  37. Well, try this on for size.... by CodeShark · · Score: 1
    What if....
    • Microsoft took a serious financial position in a Telco?
    • vs. Google took a serious financial position in a major telco,
    • that was in turn had content blocked by the M$ dominated telco...
    Or ATT decided that all of it's copper bandwidth is not common carrier but IP traffic -- does it now have to carry my Comcast originated phone call to the ATT last mile with the same priority as ATT digital packets?

    Really, this could get crazy so one of two things realistically needs to happen. Either the FCC figures it out and comes up with effective regulation, Congress passes pro-consumer effective legislation, or -- most likely -- we end up with a big stinking mess for the next then years like the '96 telco act left behind which we are still dealing with now.

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  38. Opportunity by GStyle98 · · Score: 1

    The 'deregulation' can serve as an opportunity for other connection mediums to emerge. In the face of great adversity emerges new tech (after years of patent litigation) like WiMax or BOPL or White Space whatever that can act in a similar fashion to the hardlines scattered across the country.

    Unless the telecos also buy up all that spectrum and companies with new broadband patents and the like. Then we'll spend years in monopoly litigation and try to decide if one or 2 companies holding all the access keys really constitutes a monoploy or not and, if so, how to 'regulate' it... like it was years before we ended up at that point.

    Try to think on the bright side with this announcement. We'll slowly right ourselves, just may take years to get back on track.

  39. Don't worry... Google will save you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...with their new all-in-one combo search engine, email, usenet, maps, image and video storage, online office apps in a browser, medical records database and all the rest of that stuff accessible anywhere in the USA via their new 700MHz and 2.6GHz WiMax wireless connection service.... which I'm pretty sure they'll market under the name "Google Garden" or something like that.

    --
    Laugh... it's supposed to be funny

  40. Take another dose by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

    The Democrat are only pro-consumer in comparison to the Repubs. If you pay attention--ie turn off your TV--you'll find they are pretty much bought and paid for, with a few exceptions. It's true they're not as bad as the Republicans, in the same manner that Herpes isn't as bad as AIDS.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    1. Re:Take another dose by csteinle · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair I'd much rather be itchy than dead.

  41. Speakeasy already got screwed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...out of the DSL market here in my city. Back in 2004-2005 there was about a half dozen DSL ISPs doing business here, all enjoying the right to use SBC's local copper to the homes until the new FCC decision got handed down in late 2005 and all the independent DSL providers lost their market at the stroke of a pen. Now there are only two: SBC/ATT themselves and Covad. Covad is left because they are the only one who also qualifies as a "CLEC".

  42. This isn't deregulation by Rix · · Score: 1

    This is a green light for corporate regulation of the internet.

    At least government regulation is, at some level, accountable by democratic process. Corporate regulation is not. (Wallet voting is not democratic.)

  43. i don't disagree with your point by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    i just want to offset your profundity with some moribundity

    those who speak of great utopias in the language of high minded intellectual achievement often get it wrong, throughout history. the internet was supposed to be this great philosopher's lounge of high minded thought and rhetoric and dmeocratic action. the truth is that most of it is a drunken barroom brawl at 3 am in the seedy side of london. trolls, flamewars, simple empty negativity: the basest of humanity given voice just as much as the best

    consider this: when the television was invented, the minds of that age trumpeted the birth of a great tool for the education of mankind

    pffffft

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:i don't disagree with your point by Pojut · · Score: 1

      And it could have been.

      And if you watch the History Channel, or TLC, or Discovery, you will see that it can be both educational and entertaining. Just like the Internet.

      That's two great communication tools modified by society, then destroyed by greed.

  44. No pain, no gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we ask the government to shield us from all the pain of a free market, we'll never see any of the gains that a free market can motivate. Pain is motivation in a free market. Greed is motivation. The pain of lack of options and the greed of entrenched players are opportunity for alternative offerings. Wireless, satellite, mesh, broadband-over-power... technological alternatives are out there, some of which lead to a much freer, less centralized, more competitive Internet. The pain of the free market isn't a downside, it's a catalyst.

    1. Re:No pain, no gain by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      And at some point, because of the nature of communications, all these services have to hook up to Telco wires, and all will be every bit as much at the whim of the Telcos as the average consumer.

      The free market breaks down when a resource is controlled in large part by a very few, large interests with the clout to essentially do as they please as far as control of that reource. The government's job, in such a situation, is to use its legislative and regulatory powers to mitigate that delerious effect, either by forceably splitting the up the monopolies, or setting up basic rules like common carrier.

      What we have right now is not an ideal marketplace.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  45. I hope they appeal this to SCOTUS by noewun · · Score: 1

    But with John "I never met a corporation I didn't like" Roberts at the helm, I am not hopeful.

    And now I will predict the future: the state of U.S. broadband will continue to stagnate as the rest of the world moves to higher and higher speeds. Your monthly bill will now steadily rise, and your speeds will not. I don't know how much longer I will be able to hang onto my ISP now (Earthlink leases lines from Verizon, who owns almost all of the infrastructure under Manhattan) and I'm sure that when Verizon "takes" over my service, I will be offered the same speed at a higher rate.

    And, fifteen years from now, when the deplorable state of American broadband access becomes an issue, some idiot will be claiming that the problem is still too much regulation and that what we need is one national broadband company, which will give you a nice, fast 768 Kbps line for only $150/month.

    Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards, with a chewy, bastard filling.

    --
    I am a believer of momentum and curves.
  46. no support by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    ISP's excuse: We don't support Linux, so there's no reason for enabling you to download it.

    Something like this happened to me about a month ago, but not with Linux, it was with Mac OS X. Occasionally when I click on a link or type an addie in the address bar I'll wait and wait then get a message from my ISP, Earthlink, that it can't find the address. It last happened maybe 1/2 hour ago, I first clicked a link to Google and Earthlink said it couldn't find Google. I next type the url in the address bar and got the same message. When I called Earthlink tech support when it first happened I was told they didn't support Macs but that if I was willing to pay they could send a technician to fix it. The person wouldn't even try to diagnose the problem. If I hadn't been using Earthlink for almost 10 years and saved all my email on the server I'd be tempted to switch to an ISP that does support Macs.

    Falcon
    1. Re:no support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I currently work for a company that sells a (very expensive) product for Windows and Linux but will not support running it on any Intel Mac, not even under virtualization or Boot Camp. They'll support running the software on Intel and AMD systems built from parts by end users, but nothing with an Apple logo on it in any way.

      Though they implied that it's because they'd have to pay Apple for permission (WTF ?!), I suspect it is that the license for the USB dongles we use doesn't include license to use with Macintosh hardware,

    2. Re:no support by certain+death · · Score: 1

      Funny thing happened on the way to the internet today...I have EarthStink as well...I have had them for exactly 17 days, and intend on canceling before my 30 days is up. The support is less than stoopid, they down right suck balls. I had 6 meg DSL from AT&T, and switched to Earthlink (Covad circuit) and they say I can only get 3 megs. I call in to find out why my static ip address is not working, and they hang up on me. Not because I am rude mind you, but because I insist on speaking with someone who's first language is english, not something I do not understand. Earthlink needs to pass away, they have been in the nursing home for several years now and are just polluting the rest of the Internet with their bad support and sucking software.

      --
      "My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
    3. Re:no support by Random+Destruction · · Score: 1

      Yeah I get the same garbage for using linux. The solution is extremely simple.

      Lie. Tell them what they want to hear. "I'm clicking on control panel. ok. tcp/ip settings?" etc. That way they aren't confused ("what did you say?" "linux" "you're running a linksys?") and you get your support.

      --
      :x
    4. Re:no support by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Lie. Tell them what they want to hear. "I'm clicking on control panel. ok. tcp/ip settings?" etc. That way they aren't confused ("what did you say?" "linux" "you're running a linksys?") and you get your support.

      I don't know enough about OS X to fake I'm running Windows. Even if I did though faking would just be feeding the Windows monopoly. Besides their policy says nothing about not supporting Macs, actually they used to say they supported Un*x, Macs, and Windows.

      Falcon
    5. Re:no support by unitron · · Score: 1
      I think Earthlink's inability to find Google (or Slashdot or even Earthlink itself once) occasionally is OS and browser agnostic 'cause I've had the same thing happen a time or three running Firefox one and a half and/or Internet Exploder 5 point sumpin' early (I only keep IE to load sudoku) on Win98SE (on dial up). I just assume that there's something temporarily ailing somewhere between the other end of my phone line and the rest of the world. Things usually get back to normal within an hour or so and even though it's annoying there's usually something else I should have been getting done instead of being on the interweb anyway.

      I think with Earthlink tech support it sort of depends on the luck of the draw. Some of them are more clueful than others.

      How do you connect to Earthlink, and have you tried the "chat" version of support (which has the advantage of you don't have to press a million buttons on the phone in order to get to a human)?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    6. Re:no support by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I think with Earthlink tech support it sort of depends on the luck of the draw. Some of them are more clueful than others.

      The last tyme I called support was the only tyme I had any trouble with it. That last tyme I called was the 5th tyme I called since I signed up almost 10 years ago.

      How do you connect to Earthlink, and have you tried the "chat" version of support

      I have cable access through Time Warner, now Comcast. I haven't tried chat. Maybe I'll try the next tyme.

      Falcon
    7. Re:no support by Damarkus13 · · Score: 1

      I had a similar issue with Comcast. I had just gotten my cable modem and needed to activate it. However, my NIC wasn't working under Windows (for some reason I have to spoof the MAC address to make it work [thanks alot nVidia]) but it worked fine under linux. I knew from activating my parents cable modem that all I needed was to type in an IP address, but the address was nowhere to be found. All I had was an install cd. (a windows only install cd) I had to talk to four different reps before I even found one that knew what I was talking about. The first three gave me the line, "We don't officially support Linux, but we can send a tech out."

    8. Re:no support by unitron · · Score: 1
      (I never "signed up" with Earthlink, they just bought the ISP that bought the ISP that bought the ISP that bought the one I started with.)

      I haven't seen "time" spelled "tyme" (as opposed to "thyme") since some band name in the '60s. Thanks for the flashback :-)

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  47. Just Be Glad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Verizon is not in charge of Gundam.

  48. Re:Fine with it... They did NOT pay for the lines by cdn-programmer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They presumably made a profit from the installation of the lines. It is the customers who paid for them. Further more most of the POTS lines were installed by our parents and the existing generation of Telco employees inherited them.

    Furthermore if you look at the administrations of most Telcos you will find they are filled with non-productive people and paper pushers who sit around all day drinking coffee while they scheme more ways to suck book out of the customers they hold hostage. This is why we see telephone plan after plan after plan. This is why only a few years back we had horendous Long Distance rates. It is only through competition that we start to see the benefits of modern technology filter down to benefit the public. The thing is there is not enough competition.

    IMHO the telco should be restricted to line maintenance and that is it. Its their job to maintain the wires just as it is the contractors job to maintain the hyways. Suppose the road maintanence crew were allowed to look inside the trailers of every semi... what would we get? Someone saying this truck is ok but that one isn't?

    Basically this is what the telcos are up to.

  49. Correction by stinerman · · Score: 1

    Obviously you wouldn't get DSL through your cable company; you'd get cable Internet service.

  50. Maybe it's not all Bad by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 1
    From the perspective of "searching" we're pretty darn close to "Google is The Internet".

    Now that Telecommunications Carriers no longer have to allow anyone else (ie competitors) access to Telco Owned infrastructure.....

    Perhaps all those billions and billions of miles of dark fibre infrastructure that Google has been buying for the past several years will be Put To Good Use.

    But what will they call it?
    • gNet?
    • gWeb?
    • gTubes?
    • gSpace?
    • gWorld?
    • DataSphere?
    • gSingularity?
    Personally my vote is for calling it the Google Omniprescent Datasphere, which would only be all-too-appropriate.
    Because to us /.ers it would be GOD.
    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    1. Re:Maybe it's not all Bad by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      I like G-spot better.

      --
  51. It's good or bad? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    It's good for those who were being regulated, it's bad for customers and taxpayers.

    Falcon
  52. Expected by xigxag · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For years, the US political system has relied on this sort of wink-wink-nudge-nudge attitude by the common voter. We can talk smack against the "libruls" and "political correctness" and express our devotion to the freewheeling marketplace, but in the back of our minds we take it for granted that, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, the courts will come and rescue us whenever the business tycoons we vote into power get too absurd in their obeisance to their own wallets. But surely, by now, after a generation of primarily right-wing judicial appointees, we see that the situation has changed. The courts are no longer the last bastion of liberal social policies. Nor should they be. Let's stop expecting the old men in robes to bail us out of the messes we are in. We are a nation of laws, and we owe it to ourselves and our descendants to have laws in place that express our true political will.

    Of course, that means we actually have to pay attention to whom we elect into Congress, and to what they do once they're there. Even worse, we'll have to stop being hypocrites and realize that most of us actually want a life cocooned by taxes and regulation. Are we up to that?

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  53. re-regulation by albertoG · · Score: 1

    slashdot told me i failed to prove i was human, but i usually get that bars and such, i don't think this is deregulation, just re-regulation. This hinders competition and gives consumers less or no choice at all. How long before the big guys just ban downloading totally? Or saying nasty things about them? I think this is only helpful if you are the company a.

  54. The same reason the Air Force is constitutional by tepples · · Score: 1

    Based on current jurisprudence the feds could do this in a heartbeat as people engage in interstate commerce over the lines. That and the fact that packet-switched telegraphy (aka "Internet") is to "post offices and post roads" as an air force is to an army and navy: a technological development along the same lines that the framers were considering.
  55. Takings clause by tepples · · Score: 1

    If everyone leans on their city council reps, or their county council reps, or their mayor, and pushes for their city/county to make cable within their county/city a public utility, the telco's will be left with nothing. Unless Comcast and Verizon try a defense under the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment, and fight to make the "just compensation" for this eminent domain action . In addition, several states have adopted legislation forbidding a city or county from competing with commercial entities in this way.
  56. Playing along as a devil's advocate by tepples · · Score: 1

    Actually, I do. Unless you're willing to personally fork over enough cash to meet my needs for the next few decades. You could always go back to trade school and learn a trade that does not require Internet access beyond what you can get at a public library.
    1. Re:Playing along as a devil's advocate by Damarkus13 · · Score: 1

      And we could always go back to an agricultural society. Do away with cell phones, automobiles, currency, electricity, indoor plumbing, the wheel, and fire. We could, but I don't want to.

  57. Last mile by tepples · · Score: 1

    I thought the internet was deregulated by nature No. Running the last mile connection to your premises requires pulling cable under or over other people's private property. Or are you considering exclusive rights in land to constitute "regulation of the Internet"?
  58. Bush != Bush by tepples · · Score: 1

    Hello, and welcome to 2007. It must have been a long journey from 1987! While you recover from time-travel jetlag, let me fill you in on the history you have missed.

    George Bush is president No. George Bush's son, also named George Bush, is president. (The VP in 1987 was George H.W. Bush, the father of President Bush.)
  59. Land and radio spectrum are still regulated by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you really that stupid?

    Before- regulations
    Now- no regulations

    It's really not hard. No regulations, eh? So why can't I just start a wireless ISP and beam signals? Why do I need the FCC's OK for that? And why do I need to get permission from every non-customer who lives between my central office and a customer to put cables under or their land, plus get permission from the city to put cables under or over city streets?
  60. Earthlink by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Normally I try to support local businesses but I signed up with Earthlink because I knew I was going to move, and I did. I moved from Florida to Minnesota which shares a border with Canada. By going with a national provider I was able to keep the same one and not have to change email or anything else.

    The support is less than stoopid, they down right suck balls. I had 6 meg DSL from AT&T, and switched to Earthlink (Covad circuit) and they say I can only get 3 megs.

    Until I got my MacBook Pro I didn't have any problems with Earthlink. I've only had to call for support 5 tymes in 10 years, 2 tymes was when I moved and another when I had dialup but the phone lines became too bad but I was able to get cable. Another tyme I was having trouble with access. The tech walked me through a few tests then decided my cable modem needed to be replaced. The following day a tech came by with the new modem and installed it. After running some tests he said I should have a faster connection, it looks to me like I do. I've never had a problem with any download limits or being online too much.

    Falcon
  61. how long before by Spiked_Three · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How long will it be before the phone company, and their physical infrastructure becomes irrelevant? Can the wireless networks now provided primarily for cell phones replace the copper wire that we are so dependent on any time soon? I sure hope so. I think the best thing that can happen in the long run, is for the phone company to shoot itself in the foot and generate enough interest to get themselves replaced. The sooner the better. Hopefully the power line companies see this de-regulation, and start using their infrastructure to bring internet access to homes. Then the phone company would have real competition. I hope. Then again, they could be like the clueless cable TV operators who seemed to be doing a real shitty job of it.

    I watched a TV program the other night. It was an early 1960's version of what the future would bring. They showed handheld telephones (we have them), space flight to the moon (been there), instant food cooking (ala Microwave ovens), tiny refrigerator sized computers (we have more than they imagined) and of course, a telephone system with video. Every prediction came true, except the one the phone company has prevented. The technology has been there for decades, but there is no motivation for the monopolies to innovate. The entire world suffers stagnation as a result. Now, I'm not one to bash self made monopolies. I personally believe in some cases even though they are a monopoly they can be driven by market pressures to improve, but in the case of the phone company it has been an apathetic selfish government sponsored pig. I hope they die soon.

    --
    slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    1. Re:how long before by mitgib · · Score: 1

      How long will it be before the phone company, and their physical infrastructure becomes irrelevant? Can the wireless networks now provided primarily for cell phones replace the copper wire that we are so dependent on any time soon? I sure hope so. Currently I do not see this, what hooks those cell towers together? The telco's lines.
      --
      Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation
    2. Re:how long before by Spiked_Three · · Score: 1

      yeah, but there is a big difference between fat pipes between cities, cell towers and businesses and the copper that runs to the homes. As far as I know, the fat pipes are not all owned by the phone company. I think sprint / verizon / whoever can run them just like AT&T. When they install the fiber I believe they install several pipes and who gets those pipes is not up to AT&T. Plus, towers within site of each other can use microwave and not suffer the latency of sat com, and fall back on fiber if needed. AT&T may still get a piece of the $$ where another provider wasnt in place but they would no longer have their monopoly in a huge portion of the market.

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
  62. socialism by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    I for one, as a veteran, refuse to let my country continue to slide towards socialism quietly. Doing something "for the public good" is an affront to everything the founding fathers put down in the Constitution. Who decides who the "public" is and what is "good" for them?

    I too am a vet and I don't like when my government gives the telco companies millions of taxpayer dollars to build out, first the phone lines, then the broadband infrastructure and all they do is cry they can't afford to build it. It's fine to them, and to neocons, if they are given a lot of taxpayer money but they don't want to share. The government gives some aid to a person though and the neocons go apeshit.

    Falcon
  63. popularity of politicians by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Are you looking at the approval rating of Congress overall, or of individual congressmen among their constituents? The latter is routinely higher than the former.

    This is led by the attitude many people have that their congressional delegation is good, it's all the others that are bad.

    Falcon
  64. Court Upholds Internet Deregulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This decision came down in September, 2005. Has it been appealed in the TWO years since?

  65. Uhm, Hello? Mc Fly??? by Newer+Guy · · Score: 1

    WE paid for those lines, NOT the telcos. WE paid through government grants to the telcos, through Tax breaks, through their free use of the public rights of way and through HUGE (over)charges until de-regulation was ordered back in the '80's. Now, YOU have no problem with things going back to the '70's? Has it come to your attention that this ruling allows telcos to block VOIP traffic? But you're okay with that because it's THEIR network, right? Did you see that AT&T is the newest company to sue Vonage for infringing on their (fair use stolen) patents? Why do you think they want to do this? BECAUSE THEY WANT TOTAL CONTROL BACK SO THEY CAN CHARGE US THROUGH THE NOSE AGAIN!!!! They WANT things back like they were in the '70's and earlier and with the help of the Republican controlled FCC they WILL GET THAT! Do you think it's coincidence that virtually EVERY anti-consumer FCC decision is 3-2? (hint: there are 3 Republican FCC Commissioners). But you WANT to pay 50 cents a minute for long distance calls...RIGHT??? You WANT to pay by the byte for Internet service...RIGHT??? That's alright with you-RIGHT???? Well, it ain't okay with me!!!

  66. "tyme" by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen "time" spelled "tyme" (as opposed to "thyme") since some band name in the '60s. Thanks for the flashback :-)

    I first came across the spelling of time as "tyme" when I was in high school in the late '70s. I was in the library reading the "Oxford English Dictionary", OED, when I came across it in volume 20 something. I don't know why but when I saw it I loved it and have used that spelling since. Actually within a week or so I used it in a paper for a writing class, composition, American Lit, or some such. When I got the paper back the teacher had taken points off for it as an incorrect spelling. I practically dragged her down to the library where I showed her that spelling in the dictionary, thereafter when I spelt a word she thought was incorrect she'd check the OED first.

    Falcon
  67. Excellent. by Geminii · · Score: 1

    It's about time the net backbones moved away from the USA. With arbitrary filtering taking place in the US, there will be more pressure to route around the country. No doubt freenets and wifi sharing will also undergo a boost in America. Soon everyone will be poor and communist, and the country will be ruled by power-crazed hippies.