Amazon's Ebook The Future of Reading?

theodp writes "With a seven-page cover story on The Future of Reading, Newsweek confirms all those rumors of Amazon's imminent introduction an affordable ebook. Kindle, which is named to evoke the crackling ignition of knowledge, has the dimensions of a paperback, weighs 10.3 oz., and uses E Ink technology on a 6-inch screen powered by a battery that gets up to 30 hours from a 2-hour charge. Kindle's real breakthrough is its EVDO-like wireless connectivity, which allows it to work anywhere, not just at Wi-Fi hotspots. More than 88,000 titles will be on sale at the Kindle store at launch, with NYT best sellers priced at $9.99."

Comments

I wonder

[milsoRgen]

what kind of refresh rate a device such as this needs?

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

Basically zero. They generally don't change reflectivity/brightness very fast, on purpose. A static electrical charge will keep them in a particular display state, at least the ones I've read about. Saves energy. A good thing for these designs.

However, at $400 a pop, I think this is another "Segway" of e-books. Sell the reader for $9.99 and make up the cost on the media, then you've got something. $400? Heck, I could drop $400 on one just because I wanted to, but I won't. Doesn't feel like I'm doing anything to do with books at $400. I like books, anyway. They're tough, you own them, you can do the usual things as compared to any physical possession, and they have a delightful physicality to them.

The experience of an e-book is no foreign thing, either; I've got numerous volumes in PDF on my laptop, full color illustrations, etc... just isn't the same.

I will own up to being a book freak, though. The next generation may completely lack my preference for the real thing. We'll see.

Re:I wonder

[rucs_hack]

I'm unconvinced about this thing, and ebooks in general personally. My idea of a pleasant afternoon is a browse in my local antiquarian bookshop, and I like the look of my bookshelves as is.

What really interests me is this book vending machine thing. Now that I could get behind.

Re:I wonder

[Neeth]

I too am a book freak. I fondle them, smell them, read them, re-read them, stare at them and sometimes on lonely Friday nights I even talk to them. Nothing beats the feeling of a good book. I do, however, also own the Cybook Gen3 eInk reader. This is an amazing piece of hardware. I can read whole books and not notice that I read a digital text. For me the love for books and the love for reading are two separate things. An ebook and a paper book can live together quite happily.

Re:I wonder

[Barny]

E-ink is static, there is no refresh until one is required.

Think of it as human readable nand memory :P

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

Ok, one question then: How old are you?

I'm 51; to say that I am habituated to books - physical ones - is to understate the case rather severely.

Re:I wonder

[Hognoxious]

Am I missing the point of this? For 400 bucks, you can get a proper small computer that you could (with teh softwares) read eBooks on - and more. I'm thinking nokia tablets, the linux Archos machines (now defunct, sadly) kind of thing.

Re:I wonder

[Neeth]

I am thirty five years old. The thing is, once you start reading you forget that you are reading from an electronic device. The important thing is that modern ebooks use the electronic paper technology, so it is not back lit. You have to use normal light to be able to read your ebook. But what a joy it is to be actually able to read in broad daylight!

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

Well, one thing you can't get - yet - is a laptop that'll go thirty hours on a charge that only takes two hours to get. Another is this is designed to read, and ergonomically speaking, it's easier to handle than a computer for reading purposes.

Other than that, yeah, $400, four grey levels, 256 MB of (expandable) storage, much easier to break than a book, and if you break it, you lose ALL your books, and the other shoe for DRM hasn't dropped (and sadly, I think it will)... laptops are MUCH more general, and they do fabulous color...

No, I don't think you're missing anything in particular. Bezos, I think, has missed a few things, but that's only my measly little opinion.

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

Seems like just a little effort and they could side light it with a few LEDs and a well chosen bezel. Separate battery for the light, maybe. White LEDs are getting fairly amazing in output and efficiency.

Re your age, I think you're naturally a little more flexible about this than I am. Ok, it's not just flexibility, I'm downright cranky. :-)

Re:I wonder

[bhiestand]

Ok, one question then: How old are you?

I'm 51; to say that I am habituated to books - physical ones - is to understate the case rather severely.

At 21, were you used to communicating with people via the internet? What e-mail provider did you use? How often did you order products online?

Age is no barrier to change unless you wish to claim it as an excuse. I, too, grew up with paper books. I now have an e-reader and only buy the paper books when I can't purchase them online. I like being able to take my reader with me on trips... do you know what it's like to be able to bring 80 books with you on a long business trip? I do, and I love it.

Certainly many people will never bother with them, but, quite frankly, it's just like reading paper. If you're already used to reading things on your LCD and clicking a link to go to the next page, this shouldn't be a big leap for you. The only difference is that these devices have batteries that will last for weeks of regular reading and they have displays that don't cause eye strain.

Re:I wonder

[h4rm0ny]

I think ebook readers are a great idea, especially when they can be extended so I could get my favourite newspaper on it (the Independent in the UK). I thought this one looked better than the Amazon one and I thought about getting it. It's still too pricey for what it is, though. When these things are cheaper, I'll consider it if I can still find one then that's under my control and not some DRM infested nightmare.

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

At 21, were you used to communicating with people via the internet? What e-mail provider did you use? How often did you order products online?

At 21, I was fooling with surplus modems (acoustic couplers...) with a friend, we sent mail using Baudot teletypes over ham radio (RTTY mode), and we ordered from catalogs. I had published my first technical article in Kilobaud, built a custom FM front end design for Pioneer, and had built several computers, starting with an 8008 and working up to an SC/MP and a 6800, if recollection serves.

Age is no barrier to change unless you wish to claim it as an excuse.

I said I read PDFs on my laptop, full color and etc. I've even done a little bit of reading on my palm T|X, and I've been known to surf the web on my PSP, though I find that rather painful, frankly. What age is doing here is providing a huge collection of extremely pleasant book reading experiences that I am, frankly, loathe to walk away from.

Give me an e-reader that can do what a book can - full color, allows me to keep my purchases in as secure a manner as possible, won't break if I drop it or is trivially replaceable (not at $400, sorry), and I think I'd wobble over towards the e-reader zone, as it were. Right now, it seems to me that the technology basically represents a giant step backwards. And yes, I'm aware of the bookmarking and so forth that an e-reader offers; that's great, but it isn't enough.

do you know what it's like to be able to bring 80 books with you on a long business trip?

Sure. I have a recent vintage Macbook Pro laptop with several hundred gigs of storage. Got quite a few books on it, too. Not to mention all the other usual things. Music. Games. Productivity. Custom stuff. e-books aren't bringing portable electronic books to the table as a new thing, or as a unique capability. I like to read "Motion Mountain" for entertainment (a physics e-text.) I also read a lot of our clients books in electronic format (I own a literary agency.) I'm not in the least unfamiliar with the territory. I just think it's still a frontier, is all. And not one I care to be a path-breaker in. I'll watch you do it. :-)

The only difference is that these devices have batteries that will last for weeks of regular reading and they have displays that don't cause eye strain.

Well, that, and if you drop them, you lose everything you have, as well as a $400 reader. Drop a book and pick it up and you're back where you started. Even if you drop it off a sixth story balcony. Finding it may be a problem, though. :-)

Re:I wonder

[CRCulver]

Give me an e-reader that ... is trivially replaceable (not at $400, sorry)

Real books aren't necessarily trivially replaceable either. I've bought plenty of $400 academic works for my research, as university presses sell things at high cost and then it only gets higher when the book falls out of print.

Re:I wonder

[bhiestand]

I said I read PDFs on my laptop, full color and etc. I've even done a little bit of reading on my palm T|X, and I've been known to surf the web on my PSP, though I find that rather painful, frankly. What age is doing here is providing a huge collection of extremely pleasant book reading experiences that I am, frankly, loathe to walk away from. Sorry, I'm tired and must have missed that part. If you're looking for color, you're better off sticking with your laptop for a long time to come. It will be a while before readers can offer what you need, and I don't see color coming out for at least another 5 years.

I give you credit for your good eyes. I'm younger than you are and I still can't stand to read text on a monitor for more than about an hour. I have to get up, walk around, and stare at something in the distance. Supposedly it has something to do with flicker and refresh rates, and LCDs have improved this for me, but I can't bring myself to really read on a computer screen.

Give me an e-reader that can do what a book can - full color, allows me to keep my purchases in as secure a manner as possible, won't break if I drop it or is trivially replaceable (not at $400, sorry), and I think I'd wobble over towards the e-reader zone, as it were. I agree on the $400 price tag. I paid about $300 for my Sony Reader, but I wouldn't have bought it if I cared about color or the ability to read a lot of PDFs that weren't as easy to format correctly. I primarily read novels these days, and the reader provides a better experience than a paperback for me.

I'm not in the least unfamiliar with the territory. I just think ereaders are still a frontier, is all. And not one I care to be a path-breaker in. I'll watch you do it. :-) Thank you. I was quite obviously incorrect about your attitude and will proceed to reintroduce my foot to my mouth. I believe ereaders are a frontier primarily because a lot of people are still afraid of new technologies, especially those who profit from the old ones. I thought you were using the "too old to change" excuse.

Despite my feelings that Sony is an "evil DRM-crazy corporation", they have a pretty good policy on ebooks purchased through their story. Last I checked, I could authorize up to 7 devices on my account, and there was supposed to be a way to de-authorize a device if it was sold or broken. We'll see how it plays out when it's time for me to replace my reader, but I think things will improve for the consumer in the future.

Re:I wonder

[DMoylan]

> you can't get - yet - is a laptop that'll go thirty hours on a charge that only takes two hours to get

no but any decent phone can go for days on standby and you can be reading books on them in that time. last year i was commuting 3.5 hours a day by bus and using qreader on a nokia n70 while also using it as an mp3 player. and then using it during the day to take picture and video at work. barely decreased the battery gauge by one bar. the screen is small but i found it acceptable.

on a few occasions i didn't have a chance to recharge over night and it ran for 2-3 days at that level of usage with out running out of power.

a friend bought a sony book reader and while it looked nice it now sits on a shelf unused.

* it's too big. yes it is the size of a book but a book that you carry with you is quite pliable and ends up squashed in a bag or pocket. that cannot happen with an electronic device yet. as long as you are using ascii text it reflows to fit the screen.
* drm nonsense. while i download books illegaly off the web i always go out of my way to get a legit copy. drm software is an unwanted level of complication that makes it harder to use. what when i upgrade from one device to another do i do with the electronic copy of a book. will it transfer? or will it be plays for sure nonsense all over again?
* requirements. if you're travelling you'll need to drag another power supply along. i'd prefer just to bring a phone and a single charger.

some will say that they only want a phone to be a phone. guess what? i carry a swiss army knife too. it's not the best tool for the job but 95% of the time it is good enough.

Re:I wonder

[zotz]

Hey fyngyrz,

your post prompted me to write this in my blog... ~;-)

eReaders and eBooks
http://zotzbro.blogspot.com/2007/11/ereaders-and-ebooks.html

For those who don't want to follow the link and check out all my other zuper ztuff...

  eReaders and eBooks

Here is an idea for all of the companies trying to get this right.

You need a great reader at a great price. This $400 reader I just heard about from Amazon is not the great price by a long shot. $50 sounds ball park off the top of my head. $100 might be pushing it at today's dollar value for my part of the world.

eBooks should be way less than regular books people.

Have every regular book come with an eBook in a sleeve in the back or have a code printed in it that allows for a free download of the book.

Why this last bit? Best of both worlds for people who like physical books. You get the physical book with all of its advantages, plus you get the eBook with all of the searching, bookmarking, cross referencing possibilities.

Stop thinking about how to milk the people. We are not your cows and goats. Give the people a product that will make things better for them and settle for an honest, decent profit while doing so.

drew

Check my NaNoWriMo Novel in progress:
http://dangernovel.blogspot.com/
Danger - A Safe Bahamian Novel

Re:I wonder

[evilviper]

My idea of a pleasant afternoon is a browse in my local antiquarian bookshop,

That's too bad. I guess they'll just have to market this device to the proper niche... the other 99% of the population.

Re:I wonder

[aussie_a]

As long as you're not some clumsy oaf keeping care of your ebook reader is pretty easy. I've had books as long as I've had my reader and they're showing much more wear and tear then my reader is (and no I don't take poor care of the books. I simply read them, place them in my bag where I place my ebook reader and put them in my bookcase).

Re:I wonder

[murdocj]

Give me an e-reader that can do what a book can - full color, allows me to keep my purchases in as secure a manner as possible, won't break if I drop it or is trivially replaceable (not at $400, sorry), and I think I'd wobble over towards the e-reader zone, as it were.

I'm in same camp... and the one other book feature that I'd miss in an e-reader is the ability to riffle the pages quickly and browse to the section that I'm looking for.

The one use I could see for ebooks is a delivery mechanism for magazines and newspapers, particularly if it let you pick out a particular article and save/archive it when you discard the rest. It would still need a very well designed browsing interface but that would be something I'd be interested in.

Re:I wonder

[Ajehals]

I have a PDA running Linux (recently replacing a different PDA). IT has a 4" SVGA screen which means that everything is nice and crisp, including images and colours (although frankly as I use it mainly as a book reader the colour element isn't really all that important.) With wifi on and the back light most of the way up to full it lasts about 6 hours, with the backlight down to a sensible level and wifi off it lasts closer to 16 hours, and I can carry a couple of batteries easily enough (this is with a new HP battery, and they are not expensive). Now add to that 2Gb of storage on a CF card and a few 512Mb SD cards (I use them as removable media and the CF as semi-permanent storage) and I can carry a vast number of e-books, as well as some music and videos (a couple of transcoded DVD's for example).

Now this setup isn't what I would use if I was sat in the living room of an evening and decided to read a book, mainly because in my living room I have space and decent light and no one else to bother me, I can turn the stereo on and read for however many hours without any issue, and most importantly my books are all close by, but if I am travelling anywhere its what I take. I get through a decent size novel in probably eight hours, so a long flight, or a long train journey, plus any hotel time or waiting time would usually mean carrying a couple of paperbacks (or buying them on the go) and probably an mp3 player. Now I can carry everything in one pocket, with the added bonus of the PDA looking like a phone rather than a laptop, and thereby less likely to be too attractive to thieves or airport security.

Now what would make me really happy is the ability to buy a book and then somehow receive a reduced price ebook with it (say £! extra) in a format that I can reduce to either html or preferably plain text, but maybe that will be something that I will have to wait for. I should also add that some way of getting newspapers in an ebook friendly format would also be nice, I'd pay if they emailed me a copy each day, (its not like the content isn't available online already).

Anyway, I guess my point is that I love a book, but the important part is being able to read when I want to, an ebook reading PDA does that for me (together with real books for when I am at home). Saying that I still wouldn't spend £200 on one (more likely to be £400 if the usual $=£ conversion for UK/US prices is observed) especially since it is a single use device, and by the looks of it its uglier and larger than my new PDA, which is just about as big as I would care t carry anyway.

Re:I wonder

[rucs_hack]

I might be willing to accept it as a newspaper, since that would in effect be just like a webpage I could update daily.

The problem of how to gain further information on a story exists though, I'd need to exit the ebook and go to a web machine.

If the ebook reader for a newspaper were also a web browser, then perhaps that would be better, but then you might as well just have a website instead of an ebook newspaper.

Re:I wonder

[Itchyeyes]

I like books, anyway. They're tough, you own them, you can do the usual things as compared to any physical possession, and they have a delightful physicality to them.

To me this sentence underlines the problem with eBooks. People who read books like books. However, there's a huge segment of readers that a device such as this, and just about every one that has come before it, is missing out on, and that's people who read periodicals. People who read periodicals don't like the format, they just like the content. As soon as they're done with a magazine or a book it just goes right into the trash can or recycling bin. That's your real market for eReaders.

What's more, periodicals provide a lot more avenues for revenue. Magazine subscriptions, newspaper subscriptions, RSS feeds, these are all services that can be monetized. Build a device for periodicals and the books will follow.

Re:I wonder

[phaggood]

> you start reading you forget that you are reading from an electronic device.

Until my mishugginah battery runs out. I read pdfs and downloads from fanfiction.net on my battery-chewing backlit Palm Lifebook - it's a great "life-saver" when I get stuck in the dentists, shopping w/ the wife, buying tires or find myself anywhere I have an unexpected 15-30mins of unplanned incarceration. I have lots of books at home, but they usually don't come with me everywhere like my Palm. I'd love a small reader that was always with me, that contained tons of material (like the NPR podcasts on my iPod). Still, $400 is a bit steep. I mean, has Amazon *seen* the Nano?

Re:I wonder

[fast turtle]

Give me an e-reader that can do what a book can - full color, allows me to keep my purchases in as secure a manner as possible, won't break if I drop it or is trivially replaceable (not at $400, sorry), and I think I'd wobble over towards the e-reader zone, as it were. Right now, it seems to me that the technology basically represents a giant step backwards. And yes, I'm aware of the bookmarking and so forth that an e-reader offers; that's great, but it isn't enough. That's probably the biggest reason e-readers haven't taken off yet. Price

When I can buy a cheap laptop for $399.00 that does more then an e-reader, why in hell would I spend the money for an e-reader?

Now if they got the price down to $20.00 for the reader and offered the books as downloads for $2.99/3.99 then I'd be willing to enter the e-book market but until then they're overpriced for the market as I can buy a paperback for $4.99/6.99 latest in print that doesn't need batteries, will survive getting wet/being dropped and will survive when subjected to an EMP that takes out all other electronic devices and results in Nuclear Winter.

Re:I wonder

[rkanodia]

I absolutely hate my bookshelves. The point was kind of driven home forcefully when my wife and I moved to a new apartment. A large collection of music and a moderate collection of movies weighed maybe 25 pounds, between a hard drive and some CD binders, and a couple of iPods. But for some reason, less than a gigabyte of text data required us to transport 300 pounds of removable storage media called 'books', and a 70-pound case unit called a 'bookshelf'. While I am pleased with the bookshelf's low power consumption and the ability for multiple users to access volumes simultaneously, I think an ebook reader would be a wonderful thing. Get the price on this thing down to $150 and I'd buy two.

Re:I wonder

[bbc]

"When I can buy a cheap laptop for $399.00 that does more then an e-reader, why in hell would I spend the money for an e-reader?"

Because until the Asus EEE came along, no laptop in the world could do what an e-reader does: wheigh less than a pound. This is important.

That's not to say the price of e-readers couldn't and shouldn't be lower. I've always felt 50 USD was the sweet spot. You can get an e-reader for about 110 USD (shipping not counted), and Sony had a deal until two weeks ago where you could get their Reader for the price of 50 USD plus your soul. (The soul bit entailed applying for their credit card.)

Re:I wonder

[tepples]

I'm in same camp... and the one other book feature that I'd miss in an e-reader is the ability to riffle the pages quickly and browse to the section that I'm looking for. Then place a trackpad or a touch wheel along the side of the device and bind it to scroll. If Apple can do this with iPod, the only thing holding it up might be UI patents. Or are you talking about refresh rate issues?

Re:I wonder

[secolactico]

Real books aren't necessarily trivially replaceable either. I've bought plenty of $400 academic works for my research, as university presses sell things at high cost and then it only gets higher when the book falls out of print.

Yes, indeed. But those aren't the books you would use for casual reading. You probably won't take them to the park, the beach, the bathroom, a long flight, etc. Plus, in my case I'd rather have prized books in hardcopy. I like to see the books in my bookshelves.

Of course, academic works and reference books are always convenient in electronic form for indexing/searching purposes.

Re:I wonder

[DeadDecoy]

Well there is no mention of price in the article, but ya 400$ would be a bit steep for an ebook reader. The problem is relative scale. I can buy a book for 7$ or I can buy some fancy gadget + book for 400$. Sure the gadget is a one time purchase, but let's not forget that technology is always changing and you'll probably buy a replacement 400$ gadget in 5 years. At the price of 7$, you'd need to go through ~60 books to offset/justify the cost of purchasing the gadget. Most people don't go through that many books in the space of 5 years. Ah, then what about saved space? The saved space is a fairly moot point too as books are already small. Ultimately the device must have a price that is competitive with the price of books purchased in a year (or two), otherwise people will just gloss over it. It's funny because the original article mentioned that "books are too expensive". An expensive device falls into the same trap. If they could go the way of the console, and subsidize the initial production cost of the device, it may prove to be more than just a "Segway" fad as it will improve people's lives much like a cell phone or mp3 player.

Re:I wonder

[religious freak]

Stop thinking about how to milk the people. We are not your cows and goats. Give the people a product that will make things better for them and settle for an honest, decent profit while doing so. HAHA! Which planet do you live on? Sorry, but the goal of every company is to get as much money out of you as they can. They do that by offering services... not the other way around.

Re:I wonder

[OrangeTide]

nice thing about eInk is you don't need much ambient light to read it, it's really like reading ink and paper in that respect. You could try to attach all sorts of battery sucking gizmos on it, or you could turn on a small lamp near where you are sitting. It's possible to read them in moonlight, although probably not that great for your eyes to read in low light.

Re:I wonder

[murdocj]

Would a track wheel work as well as physically turning the pages? Would I occasionally hit the track wheel while reading and lose my place? Would the track wheel know to jump to the well thumbed places? I've been hearing about ebooks for about 20 years, and I think they haven't caugh on because there are a LOT of advantages to old fashioned paper.

Re:I wonder

[SoopahMan]

You are a book freak but it's good you recognize it - otherwise you could've meandered into "get off my lawn territory." Although to you "real book" is defined as "wonderful physicality," in a short time many's definition of "real book" will sound like this:

1) I can store nearly infinitely many, and access any of them nearly anywhere. They used to have to buy shelves fo these? And pick just one or 2 for trips!?

2) I can search them. People would pay for physical bookmarks? Wow. An Index was a section where I'd have to go find the listed page number and only some terms were in there? That sounds awful.

3) Further down the road: Peer-reviewed text must have been terrible before links; it must have been easy to publish lies before I could download Wiki Annotations that warn me of baseless statements. Reading big epics must have been less interesting before I could read it with the author's annotations, and Wiki ones about subtle popular references.

You're defining "familiar book to me" more than "real book," and for many that definition is shifting.

Re:I wonder

[walt-sjc]

Ebooks solve the problem of "out of print" and "out of date" completely since there is never a reason to stop selling an ebook, and ebooks can be updated with current content as needed. For academic / technical books, the concept of ebooks is a "no-brainer". It would totally disrupt the current business model for textbooks however (in a good way for students) so we probably won't see it anytime soon. Maybe we can get more "open content" books out there written by profs that have more than profit as a motive for writing. These books would also be good for our government to fund - it benefits all of society.

The ebook reader also has to be better however. It needs to have a physically larger screen, full color, and very hi-res for a lot of content these types of books have. When I was going to school, it sure would have been nice to carry a little 2 pound ebook reader instead of 50 pounds of books in a backpack.

Re:I wonder

[zotz]

HAHA! Which planet do you live on? Sorry, but the goal of every company is to get as much money out of you as they can. They do that by offering services... not the other way around.

What?

I am trying to give them an idea to help them get that money. So far they keep failing with these things and not getting a whole lot of money from us...

I don't know about you, but as a buyer in the market place, I do my best not to give my business to companies I perceive as trying to rip me off.

all the best,

drew

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

I gave up on The Independent shortly after they decided to become an anti-government attack-dog instead of a newspaper.

Funny... I had a very similar experience. I gave up on my government when it became an anti-citizen attack dog instead of a government. You know what I mean... surveillance everywhere they can get away with it, individual liberties trampled upon, wars against personal choices and lifestyles, arbitrary re-writes and censorship of science, shilling press conferences, pursuing wars of aggression where no threat existed, trampling the country's constitution, creating several generations worth of debt load for my descendants, stealing people's property for the benefit of commercial interests, making legislation for corporate and SIG benefit and not the people... yep, a very similar experience indeed.

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

No, the other 99% of the population is sprawled on their couch, eagerly consuming the news about Britney Spears and blindly swallowing the propaganda on Faux News.

I *really* don't think you can make an argument that your average person will put out $400 for an e-reader. I seriously can't see that happening. You're pulling from the subgroup that consists of avid readers, perhaps with a smattering of pure gadget freaks. And the fellow you replied to is a member of that subgroup. He's probably representative of the majority of them. You ask a reader if they enjoy browsing in a good bookstore, and they'll probably bend your ear half off. What a good bookstore *means* varies; for me, it's always been Powell's technical bookstore in Portland, Oregon; for him, it's an antique bookstore; for others it may be Barnes and Noble or a used paperback bookstore... but my guess is that almost every book fan will have a story about the delights of browsing a bookstore that suits their interests. Where I live, there are no bookstores. I'm about 300 miles from the nearest city (and most of you wouldn't even call Billings, Montana much a city.) So I do a lot of book shopping on Amazon and other online booksellers. It's not the same. I can browse a hundred book titles in seconds across a bookshelf; a list on Amazon is hugely clumsy by comparison. When I get to a real bookstore, you might as well leave me there all day, and I'm going to spend some serious money.

e-readers have a long way to go to dig into this market. IMHO.

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

Well there is no mention of price in the article, but ya 400$ would be a bit steep for an ebook reader.

2nd page of the article, 5th paragraph: "$399"

Re:I wonder

[TheRaven64]

I read a lot, and I like books. I also travel a fair bit, and like being able to read while I'm away. I use my Nokia 770 for this with a load of books from Project Gutenberg. The 770 isn't as nice to read as a real book, but I can't fit half a dozen real books in my jacket pocket for reading on the plane. I can't fit a few dozen books in my pocket for reading while I'm away for a few weeks.

That said, I'd love an eInk feed reader. Ideally in a scroll form-factor; something I could roll up and roll out when I wanted to read, with it only using the amount of ePaper I had visible at the time.

Re:I wonder

[lsm2006]

However, at $400 a pop, I think this is another "Segway" of e-books. Sell the reader for $9.99 and make up the cost on the media, then you've got something.

It would be worth the high price if it included were electronic rights to all the print media the I've purchased from Amazon historically.

This would ignite an e-market for books, with high-volume online purchasers leading the way. Amazon has the heft to pull off such a deal with publishers. Win win win. (Amazon, publishers, consumers).

Re:I wonder

[evilviper]

I *really* don't think you can make an argument that your average person will put out $400 for an e-reader.

See: College Students. $400 is a drop in the bucket if it'll last around 4 years, and digitized content is reasonably inexpensive.

See: Executives, Electricians, Construction Foremen, Pilots, System Admins... Hell, anyone who works in an office, and many who don't. eBook readers aren't just for novels.

There isn't any particular reason it needs to be $400 either, prices on tech always fall quickly.

Re:I wonder

[ucblockhead]

Both the Sony eReader and Kindle will display non-DRM books.

Re:I wonder

[vuffi_raa]

That's probably the biggest reason e-readers haven't taken off yet. Price I agree- till the prices come down and tech goes up I will stick to bookr on my psp- does txt or full color pdfs- screen is small, but it works and is particularly useful if I just need to dump mapquest directions on it as well

Re:I wonder

[innocent_white_lamb]

I own and operate a movie theatre. Accordingly, I spend a lot of time sitting in my lobby waiting for shows to be over, waiting for crowds to show up before the show, waiting for people to leave after the show... I spend a lot of time waiting.
 
About a year ago I set up a Neoware Capio 616 terminal using LTSP. I made a special, narrow computer desk on wheels with slide-out keyboard tray and put the terminal, a 17" LCD monitor and a keyboard and mouse on it. It lives behind my ticket counter and I read all sorts of ebooks in PDF format on it. (And browse Slashdot.)
 
I was using Acrobat Reader for reading books but just updated my main computer to Fedora 8/x86_64 and since acroread isn't available in a x86_64 version I've been using evince for the past week or so.
 
(Yes, I know I could install the i386 libraries on this computer and use acroread that way -- I'm trying to avoid that if I can.)
 
I spent a year or so reading books on a Palm Tungsten E with Weasel Reader, but now that I have my 17" monitor I can get my books on-screen either one or two pages at a time. Times New Roman font, 15 point text seems to work the best for me.
 
I can sit back and read my book effortlessly, just push a key to go to the next page. The computer holds my book for me, it remembers where I left off the last time and re-opens the book to that page, and I can just push the whole works off to the side (wheels, remember?) when someone walks in the door.

Re:I wonder

[Hognoxious]

The ones I mentioned are all tablet form. Proper small computer was a bit misleading though in capabilitieds they're getting there.

re the charging, I've always favoured AA.

Re:I wonder

[dintech]

It's definitely easier to beat those young whipper-snappers over the head with your news paper than an eInk tablet. Get off my lawn! :)

Re:I wonder

[shmlco]

I wouldn't say price, I'd say multiplicity. Do you really want to carry yet another device around? And the chargers and batteries and cables and other junk that always goes with?

Re:I wonder

[shmlco]

"People who read books like books."

I like books. I don't, however, keep ALL of my books. Some are just time fillers and others are just worth (barely) the paper on which they're printed.

While I might like to keep some books in paper format (like art books), I might in fact welcome the day when I could replace a half-ton or so of books and shelves (literally) with a large hard drive and a few readers. Keep in mind that many of us no longer think we need to move around huge collections of vinyl and plastic just in order to have a music collection.

Times change.

Re:I wonder

[arminw]

.....that your average person will put out $400 for an e-reader.....

Many have done that already for such a reader that also works as a phone, music and video player at that price. It can access books and other things for free. I have heard they are marketed under the name "iPhone", because most people buy them for their telephone function. Rumors have it there is also a cheaper version called "iTouch" that omits the phone part, but works fine for the other functions, including a reader.

Re:I wonder

[arminw]

.....I could authorize up to 7 devices on my account......

Wow, I've got shelves full of books, each properly 'authorized' and a laptop full of cool, free "authorized" content to read, listen to and watch.

Re:I wonder

[ealar dlanvuli]

Until physical books come with an electronic version, "ebooks" are never going to work.

Sean

Re:I wonder

[tholomyes]

"When I get to a real bookstore, you might as well leave me there all day, and I'm going to spend some serious money.

I love Powell's Technical, but this is a reason against; I just can't afford to go there very often (and I shudder to think of moving all of my books again...)

.

Re:I wonder

[DECS]

What about albums shifting to MP3s? It seems like what's needed is a reliable, simple way to convert books into ebooks. Publishers seem to think they can charge $10 for an ebook, which seems too high. Pricing ebooks at around $5 and creating a volume market might help increase literacy too. Also, creating a format that makes it easy convert desktop documents + PDFs and use content in fair ways would also propel ebook adoption rather than burying it again as Sony's Reader did.

Seriously, wasn't anyone paying attention to what made the iPod work? It wasn't a DRM money train chugging from the iTunes Store, charging more than the price of CDs. It was a thoughtfully designed device with good integration and the ability to use people's existing content.

Ten Myths of Leopard: 10 Leopard is a Vista Knockoff!

Re:I wonder

[fyngyrz]

We own an ipod touch. Trust me, it's no e-reader. Not unless your eyes are spaced about two centimeters apart and you prefer reading sentences six words in length, that is.

Amazon's creation is much better - it has a form factor and resolution that (just barely) provides booklike readability (for text.) It's simply too expensive.

Re:I wonder

[arminw]

.....Trust me, it's no e-reader.....

Generally, in written communication, we often miss the tone of voice, in which something is said in person. I'm sure that if I had said to you, what I wrote in my post, you would have caught the facetious ring in my voice. :-)

It's definitely too expensive. Maybe $40-$50 would be about right. If it could optionally read the text out loud in a reasonably human sounding voice, maybe $80-$100 might not be too high. A paper book can't read bed time stories out loud until children (or adults even) fall asleep.

Re:I wonder

[Smidge204]

Sorry for the late reply. I glanced over this discussion when it was first posted, but just recently I found Amazon put up an officially official page on the device, including a mini tutorial video.

According to the official page (gleaned from the video):

-You can subscribe to a range of "US and international" newspapers and magazines which are downloaded automatically (providing you haven't turned off the wireless connection). The service also includes blog feeds (I saw Slashdot, TechCrunch, BoingBoing, Motely Fool and The Onion in the demo video).

-The wireless connection uses the cellular phone network, and there is no additional fee for using that data connection during purchases.

-"Everything you buy" is backed up online, which means I assume it is associated with your Amazon account and you can re-download it without additional cost.

-Includes dictionary and free Wikipedia access.

-Includes web access (though I think generic web access incurs additional fees)

-Per-line highlighting, custom notes, bookmarking and auto-bookmarking of last viewed page for each book/publication.

-Search all downloaded text for words and phrases. Searching also provides links to Wikipedia, Web search and Kindle store.

-For a "small fee" you can e-mail documents and images of various formats to your account and view them on the device.

-SD memory card slot, USB connection (likely used for charging as well) and 1/8" headphone jack (not clear if it actually plays audio at this point though)

Honestly, I'm a little impressed with the device. I still wouldn't buy one, since I don't really read on-the-go that much, but I'm still impressed by it. The only thing that sets me off is the rechargeable battery, which is probably not user-replaceable. I prefer gadgets that use standard batteries so I can put it my OWN rechargeables, and if I really need I can stop in almost any store and buy a few cells. That's just me, though. YMMV.
=Smidge=

Re:I wonder

[BungaDunga]

Poor man's ebook reader:
Palm V off ebay (~$20)
Plucker/eReader format books:
http://ereader.com/ ($3 to $23 each)
http://gutenberg.org/ (free!)
Works remarkably well, not terribly easy on the eyes though.

No picture?

[uuxququex]

They write seven pages on the ebook reader, that's good. But apparently they thought that showing the device would be unnecessary?

Or are they afraid a picture would distract the reader from the many shiny ads on the page?

Re:No picture?

[tero]

They're probably afraid the hideous fugliness of the thing will make potential ad-clickers run
Some (alledged) pics here:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader/

Re:No picture?

[Ilgaz]

They're probably afraid the hideous fugliness of the thing will make potential ad-clickers run
Some (alledged) pics here:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader/ They need to hire Apple iPod team immediately. Why include keyboard? Why whitish colour close to beige? Why not a very very simple thing which shows the content only with back forward at edges? Why audio? Who wants a book making sound while there is iPod for it with all established book store?

It is sad the industry never learns from failure of hi-tech multimedia devices to some "no wireless, lame" iPod.

Hope they are fake shots.

Re:No picture?

[StarfishOne]

I think it should look like a Star Trek Pad:

http://www.billabonger.net/futurisms.cfm

Re:No picture?

[DingerX]

One hopes for Amazon's sake they spent the last year taking night courses in how to make the device look less like 1985 got really drunk and vomited all over the drafting table.

Re:No picture?

[Pollardito]

They need to hire Apple iPod team immediately. Why include keyboard? e-ink is a fairly new technology. it's quite possible that they haven't been able to get it to work along with touch-sensitivity, so they may have had no choice

Re:No picture?

[EagleEye101]

hey need to hire Apple iPod team immediately. Why include keyboard? Why whitish colour close to beige? Why not a very very simple thing which shows the content only with back forward at edges? Why audio? I guessing because its not real at all. If amazon was going to release hardware, it would at least be pleasant on the eyes. Either way that thing must be old since it has tape gunk all over the side of it. Also, they would make it a shit load lighter.

Re:No picture?

[StarfishOne]

Thank you, but it is not my blog. You should compliment the owner for this write-up. :)

Re:No picture?

[RoboRay]

The design looks very 1980'ish, in a "Buck Rogers tech-retro kind of way.

Re:No picture?

[Ilgaz]

No I am not calling for touch screen. I am saying a lot simpler thing must be done. Back, forward "real" buttons if touch to edges can't be done.

I am following e-ink since its start but it seems companies don't get what makes a real book attractive. Its simplicity.

Re:No picture?

[Floritard]

Yea if only they had some kind of picture, or even a video. Yea that would be cool a video. Then you could see it in action. Like if the author gave his hands-on impression with the device. Maybe in the right margin of the page just after the jump. Yep that'd be a good place for such a video. Oh if only...

Re:No picture?

[kersten78]

If I see someone reading one of these, I'll whack them across the face with a paperback.

XO ebook

[nachtkap]

I'm not even going to consider really reading an ebook until the XO becomes wildly available. From the information that is available on the XO it would be the right mix between utility and readability.

Re:XO ebook

[neverland0]

Why wait? I just ordered mine for that very purpose too :)

Yes!!

[Michael_gr]

This is what I've been waiting for. I almost considered buying Sony's Ebook reader a while ago, but, to tell the truth, I hate Sony. The Kindle sounds like something I'd really like to have. It's not cheap but once it's in my hands, I have the entire Project Gutenberg to go through.

Re:Yes!!

[Ajehals]

The one thing about all the Sony Kit I have ever owned is that the screens are lovely, my clie had a gorgeous screen for reading text, the phone is a SE with a fantastic screen (resolution and colour vibrancy) and the various vio's I looked at and then didn't buy all had lovely displays too. How can an apparently evil company have such good sense when it comes to the part of the device most important to the user?

Re:Yes!!

[xmedar]

I bought a Sony Reader here are the bullet points-

1. Great to have hundreds of books at the press of a button.
2. Easily navigatable.
3. The 6 inch screen is a bit too small for reading technical pdfs (long equations, detailed graphs etc) even in landscape, if you really have to have that you want an Irex Iliad $650 (£468 in the UK)
4. Can be read in direct sunlight, great for beach reading.
5. Contrast is not fantastic, reading black on light grey not white, there is a tool on MobileRead called RasterFarian that helps with pdfs, but I've found the best solution to copy the text of pdfs out of Adobe Reader into Open Office Reader, reformat the page to 9cm x 12 cm and change the font to Arial Black 11 or 12, the formating might be a bit messy but I can read it low light conditions easily and it only takes about a minute to convert a whole book.
6. Overall I'm glad I got the Reader, if the Iliad was cheaper or I could have expensed one I would have prefered it for technical pdfs.

Re:Yes!!

[Constantine XVI]

Sony has always made excellent hardware. It's when they expanded into media (movies, music, television, etc.) that the evil started. The media side wanted the hardware side to clamp down on "piracy" and etc., and the hardware side didn't have the backbone to say no.

Re:Yes!!

[illumin8]

I bought a Sony Reader here are the bullet points-

Doesn't it bother you that the Sony reader has no search capability? That seems like a glaring oversite for an ebook reader.

Re:Yes!!

[xmedar]

Search would be nice, that would involve either a keyboard or handwriting recognition, which most readers do not have, the Iliad does have a stylus and you can write notes, but there is no recognition unfortunately, you can set bookmarks on the Sony and it will skip to bookmarks in PDFs. As an aside the books I have read have all been those that you start at he beginning and finish at the end rather than those you just dip in and out of for reference.

Learn

[eddy]

The only way I'd ever buy one of these is if it nicely renders unDRM'ed PDFs and features good bookmarking (not just files, but page and line too). If the idea is a device that will only work with some DRMed format, then it'll have the same future as an ATRAC-only music player, which is to say... None.

No, I didn't RTFA, I'm just naturally pessimistic about these devices because everyone seems to be out to sell a service and 'give away a device'.

Re:Learn

[peragrin]

if you have a spare grand check out the irex illiad. take Sony's ebook, or kindle add in wi-fi, touch screen and linux. You can request from the developer a method to unlock the system so you can install applications on it. People have already setup a simple web browser, and mp3 player.

both of those kill the battery life while you use them, but you can also turn them off. If the damn thing didn't cost a small fortune then I would have gotten one.

Re:Learn

[webagogue]

DRM the hell out of 'em... just make them cheap. Books, unlike music, are often read only once (if at all). I wouldn't mind a 99 cent book that expired after six months. If I wanted to read it again, I'd just buy it again.

Re:Learn

[MythMoth]

Actually the Sony Reader does nicely render unDRM'ed PDFs and features good bookmarking! It's pretty neat. The DRM'ed books suck, of course, but I've never bought one. Guttenburg texts pre-formatted for it rock.

Re:Learn

[swillden]

Guttenburg texts pre-formatted for it rock.

If you like sci-fi, check out Baen's stuff. They don't provide PDF format (though they probably would if they realized there was value in it), but it's easy enough to turn an HTML or RTF e-Book into PDF.

Re:Learn

[SetupWeasel]

A $399 ebook reader is a hell of a barrier to scale for a $0.99 book.

Re:Learn

[vanyel]

I really like my Sony Reader, except for one thing: contrast. When I was in my 20's, it probably would be fine, but now, well, *not* in my 20's ;-), combined with the fact that it won't scale pdfs to the large print size, I have to have really good lighting to be able to read it. It turns out that my treo is a better e-reader than the Reader, and, if I absolutely have to, I can install additional proprietary readers (I currently have Ereader and Mobipocket, though I am refusing to buy any additional drm'd content). Fictionwise has a great selection of non-drm'd books too, though all too many publishers are going the drm route...

I'm hoping the new version of the Reader will be useable for me, and if so, I'd be happy to give younger eyes a good deal on mine...

Re:Learn

[nairbv]

well, I think you're in luck with these things. I've been doing my research (looking at the hanlin, cybook, sony, and iliad) and I'm eager to buy one or the other, leaning towards the cybook so far. They all support at least some form of non-drm content like pdfs, txt, and HTML as far as I can tell. Most also support GIFs and JPGs and some support MP3's.

I don't think they'd get away with ONLY selling DRM content, though I'll want GOOD drm content available for when I do feel the urge to pay for a book. What I'm finding is that I'm going to want the best available DRM content, which makes me shy away from sony's device with it's proprietary service that will only run on the sony device. I wish there was an eink device that would read the palm books, drm pdfs, sony's propreitary books, AND mobipocket books, so I'd know that I could always buy any book if I feel the need to buy a DRM book, and that if one DRM format goes out of style I'll still be able to read books in whatever the hot-new format is.

"Mobipocket" seems to be the best one out there in terms of what devices are supported (also runs on a palm, or on your computer, or a blackberry, or in various other ebook reading devices like the cybook, and hanlin has a contract to develop support that format on their devices). Amazon bought mobibook, so the kindle looks hopeful in that sense. I'm really eagerly awaiting this announcement, unless the thing is coming out quickly I'll probably buy some other mobi-pocket-supporting eink device.

If the kindle doesn't support non drm content then they'll just crash+burn. It'd be silly to buy one when there are other comparable options that will be able to read thousands of non-copyrighted books freely downloadable from the gutenberg project or wherever else.

The problem with PDFs is the size. Most are fixed format 8.5/11 with no font changes or reflow, so if you zoom in you have to scroll back and forth (very annoying on a screen with such slow refresh as these eink devices), and if you fit-to-screen the text is too small. If you can get PDFs that are formatted to the right size you'll be fine, but that's not always the case. Personally, I hate PDFs.

I think most of these eink devices support (non drm) pdfs to some extent, it's just an issue of them looking like crap. If you can at least rotate the screen 90% and have fully adjustable zoom you get a slightly better view. DRM pdf's are actually harder to support.

My big fear is that it's going to be tightly coupled with (and require a subscription to) this phone service thing that I don't want. I'll gladly plug it into a USB port, but I'm not in the US and don't plan to use some funny cellphone based internet service.

I've never read an electronic book, but I'm thrilled about this eink stuff and I can't wait to get my hands on one so I can get started. LCDs hurt my eyes quite a bit. I spend most of my time living on a boat, which sails quite poorly because the v-berth is so full of books. One of these things could save me needing a bigger boat.

Re:Learn

[Basje]

The problem isn't the cost that's prohibitive. It's the limited choice of texts available.

I wouldn't mind paying 0.99 per book if all books/texts in the world were available to choose from, but it cannot be. But my friends concept novel isn't. My coworker's legal notes arent. I want to be able to read that as well.

So DRM is very limited, even if the books were gratis.

Re:Learn

[MythMoth]

Thanks for the tip - reading it now; the Sony Reader does RTF just fine too :-)

Re:Learn

[MythMoth]

I can see how the contrast might be a problem, since the background is more of an off-white. But I don't have problems with it. My father seems to find it ok too (though he may just be being polite since it was a gift from me).

The big plus for me is that I can have dozens of books to choose from without the associated weight problems when travelling. Plus I can read it outside in strong light and it's actually clearer than in a typical IT cave; I may actually get my quota of vitamin D this year!

Re:Learn

[swillden]

Thanks for the tip - reading it now; the Sony Reader does RTF just fine too :-)

That's good to know. I've been thinking about buying one. I have an RCA e-Book (the RCA-branded version of the Rocket/Gemstar) and I like it, but it is a little heavier than the Sony, and I like the idea of the electronic ink.

On the subject of Baen, I hope you found both the Free Library and their Webscriptions site. Lots of great stuff there, both free and pretty cheap ($15 for 6-10 books).

Re:Learn

[vanyel]

The big plus for me is that I can have dozens of books to choose from without the associated weight

Completely agreed! I'm dumping all (ok, most) of my paper --- my entire electronic library fits on one sd card, not a literal half ton and an entire room. I mainly use my Treo 650 at the moment, and it makes an excellent e-reader.

Re:Learn

[wild_quinine]

everyone seems to be out to sell a service and 'give away a device'. I like that model when the firmware of the device gets cracked and you end up being able to do whatever you like with a wicked (open!) device that was subsidised by a poor business model. See: Xbox media center.

I like the idea, but the execution?

[Seumas]

I like the idea of ebooks on physical "epaper". I like the idea of not having to pay ten to fifty dollars for a fucking paperback book, because I'll now be able to buy it in digital form, without the expense of manufacturing and distributing. I like the idea of having the data available to myself for use in different formats and as part of my collection forever, instead of having to buy another copy if I lose my book or spill a soda on it.

However, what is more likely to happen is that you'll pay just as much as you would for the real thing, be severely limited by crippling DRM, have to pay all over again to re-download the data should you ever need to and also be bound by all sorts of limitations that only benefit the publishing industry. For instance, now you won't be able to sell your book back to a store for them to sell on-the-cheap as used to another reader. The publishing industry HATES the used-book trade and they'd even love to see it criminalized. Not to mention how this could affect libraries.

So yes, the idea is great. Just like the idea of an immense online collection of videos that I can cheaply download and watch any time I want to with some sort of subscription service. Sounds great, but every implementation sucks and is more limiting than anything else.

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[Morloth]

Sure, established writers and printer / distributing companies will figure a way to thwart the system as to hold on to their current business model. But from the perspective of independent writers this is a whole different matter. They are now able to distribute copies of their books without the need of a distributer or printer company. If this is a good thing I'm not sure, the current model works as a filter to keep all the 'crap' out. Looking at labels you're now able to tell something about the quality of a book or you can at least expect a certain standard.

We will see how things will work out, but if blogs may serve as a comparison; Being a form of independent journalism: I guess 95% is crap but people are still able to find respectable blogs and filter out the bad stuff. However, blogs aren't a substitute for news papers (yet?) but should be rather viewed as complementary. However, the question whether this new medium endangers the position of independent writers remains to be seen.

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[OS24Ever]

However, so far, with past implementations the e-book cost as much as the real live paper version. So they convert all that cost of manufacturing into profit, not into a lower price for the consumer.

Not sure if it will change with these, but when I experimented with eBooks on my Palm Pilot about 5 or more years ago with peanut press that was what you found.

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[WK2]

If this is a good thing I'm not sure, the current model works as a filter to keep all the 'crap' out.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[Seumas]

However, so far, with past implementations the e-book cost as much as the real live paper version. So they convert all that cost of manufacturing into profit, not into a lower price for the consumer.

Not sure if it will change with these, but when I experimented with eBooks on my Palm Pilot about 5 or more years ago with peanut press that was what you found. And that is what I fear will end up happening. You don't see digital download versions of videogames selling for a discount. You can pay $50 for a PC game that comes in a box, on a set of CDs with a manual and a map and that has been through the whole manufacturing, shipping, store shelf process . . . or you can pay $50 for a PC game that you downloaded over the internet . . . obviously one is more expensive for the maker than the other. But they pocket the difference instead of returning it to the customer (even when they don't have a publisher as the middle man sucking out a huge portion of the profit, too).

One might be able to justify $50 for a paperback technical book, but it's hard to justify $10 or $20 or even $30 for a book of fiction. If prices were more reasonable, I would be all over a digital reader like this. Especially since I could theoretically carry my entire library on a single "sheet".

Of course, the real boon will be when you have wifi access on such a "paper reader" and you can access every known work in existence from the Library of Congress, including things like Wikipedia. All in a little device that looks like a notepad -- and easier on the eyes than a monitor.

But again, it all hinges on price and DRM limitations . . .

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[phaggood]

>> If this is a good thing I'm not sure, the current model works as a filter to keep all the 'crap' out.
>Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

This response had me ROTFLMMFAO.

For the first and ONLY time in my life -- "dittos".

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[Zebra_X]

"I like the idea of not having to pay ten to fifty dollars for a fucking paperback book, because I'll now be able to buy it in digital form, without the expense of manufacturing and distributing"

Amazons current "electronic books" are a little baffling. Basically you pay 75.00 - 125.00 for a book (I'm talking textbooks). Then amazon will "let" you buy the electronic version of the same book for 20.00 dollars extra. Great! I've already bought the book, licensed it even and yet I still need to pay for it? It also appears that with some books you will only get the privilidge of purchasing the online version if you bought the paper version.

So amazon is pretty cool and I use them regularly, I just think that the electronic version of books, especially high end books, should be complimentary.

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[knorthern knight]

> We will see how things will work out, but if blogs may serve as a comparison;
> Being a form of independent journalism: I guess 95% is crap but people are
> still able to find respectable blogs and filter out the bad stuff.

90% of *EVERYTHING* is crud.

Theodore Sturgeon, 1958

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[dintech]

> ROTFLMMFAO

Is the extra M for 'massive'?

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[shmlco]

Amazon states that a current NY Times bestseller that might be $27.95 MSRP and $19.85 on Amazon will be $9.95 on the Kindle. They're definitely in the ballpark on price.

Re:I like the idea, but the execution?

[Seumas]

Well, depending on what limitations I'm getting with that. Can I back it up? When I'm done reading it, can I give it to someone else? We have to remember that in this process we are also talking about the elimination of possible reselling, which benefits the publisher since instead of having two or four or ten people over the life of a book read a single copy for the single price the publisher was paid, every person who reads it will now have paid that $10. So it probably ends up as a bonus in their eyes.

Can it run...

[dotancohen]

Oh yeah, but can it run... never mind.

I'd at least like a _picture_ of the thing. Or are the letters running across the guy's face indicative of what the device is _really_ meant for: bringing porno within reach of the toilet/bathtub/bed where the computer won't reach?

Re:Can it run...

[Barny]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of...

*grin*

Any smart phone + CoreAVC == porn anywhere already, why do I need a... oh, MORE porn. I get it now, or at least I will get it :P

Too expensive

[SmallFurryCreature]

Paper books have to be printed, they have to be printed before you buy them and this costs lots of money. The publisher has to take a gamble on how many books can be sold, he will then put in an order for that amount at a printer, who wants his money NOW thank you very much. He will then have to stock those books before sending them to the various retailers. Those retailers will have to stock the books as well, until the customer hopefully end up buying them, eventually. In the meantime a lot of the books will get damaged and be less desirable to buy.

It is a huge complex operation that EATS money. It is why books are still so damned expensive.

Go digital and you loose an awfull lots of costs. First, with digital distribution you can always create EXACTLY the right number of copies. You will never have to take unsold copies back or have to turn a customer down. Never again will the last copy be in some bookstore in a remote place devoid of human life, like New Jersey.

The cost of "printing" is insanely low and in this case for a large part already paid for by the consumer. The consumer PAYS for the download through his internet connection and PAY for the "paper" through the ebook reader. Would you pay the same for beef at the butchers if you had to bring your own cow? The cost of distribution also plummets, what do you rather send, a paper book or a megabyte (and text books are well under that) of data? Could you even express the cost of transmitting that amount of data in whole cents anymore?

Then there is the fact that the costs remain the same no matter where the ebook is send, that there are no losses or damages in transportation and that there is no wait time for delivery.

The costs of stocking disappear as well, you only need to stock one "copy" of the book and then can sell it through the magic of the computer a million times over. The ebook doesn't get old, can't be stolen from inventory, doesn't get eaten by rats. It just sits there, pristine, ready to be sold anytime there is a buyer. For a company like amazon that stores a great many books going to ebooks would mean a fortune saved in warehouse space.

The cost savings of going to ebooks are gigantic.

Yet we still got a price of $9.99 for an ebook when all that is really left is to pay the author, a bit of hardware and software and electricity?

Anyone want to make a bet that an ebook means a profit margin for amazone that would make Apple blush? I am no economists, but I think you can express amazon's angle as "Cazhiiing", or eyeballs spinning and being replaced by dollar signs.

Do you also want to make bets that authors won't all of a sudden find that they get a huge increase on their income?

I can see Amazon's reasons for keeping theprice high, amazing profits is one, not wanting to canabalize paper sales (anyone could setup an ebook store, no need for huge investments Amazon had to make to setup its paper book distribution system) but I also fear it will kill the idea.

Why is it so hard for these types of companies to understand that the less you sell something for, the more you sell. Rather then trying to squeeze a limited audience for all you can, squeeze them less and find yourselve with a bigger audience.

It is depressing that business just doesn't seem to get that with the costs of selling digital content being so low, you could expand your market to truly epic proportions.

Imagine for instance if comics (or manga or strips) were no longer sold JUST on their original continent, but were distrubuted worldwide at a fraction of the costs. I find it very hard to believe that this would not massively increase the sales and profits of the publishers. Yet they keep insisting on distrubting their works in the most expensive way possible that limits the exposure to potential customers.

Truly amazing. $9.99 for a megabyte of data, that requires me to pay for delivery AND the tech to read it. Yeah, why not.

If business had been charge of the internet, email would cost 0.50 euro cents to send. Because hey, that is what regular mail costs so why should we pass the savings by going digital on to the customer?

Re:Too expensive

[rolfwind]

When you talk about the publishers going digital, you have to carry it out to the logical conclusion. Printing costs go down to zero, so do distribution costs. Pure profits, right?

And then the authors will get ideas -- all the sucessful ones say to themselves "Hey, all I need is to hire a good editor and then I can do this myself!" Of course, they would want marketing and such services -- but instead of having an editor which controls you to a degree -- eventually an ebay/amazon/itunes of ebooks gets developed by someone who wants only a small percent and who the general public congregates upon to get this type of item.

If iTunes were to become the major (>50%) sale's force in the music world over CDs, you will see more and more artists doing the same.

So while it would drive their costs down, publishers have almost no interest into shifting to such an paradigm as the distribution channel is their source of power. They don't do retail, they don't control the shops directly, but they can pretty much decide if your books hit the physical shelves or not. Lose that and they become irrevelent -- much of the publishing industry could become a free associations of editors, authors, and artists who work with each other on a one by one basis as need arises.

Re:Too expensive

[Registered Coward v2]

The cost of "printing" is insanely low and in this case for a large part already paid for by the consumer. The consumer PAYS for the download through his internet connection and PAY for the "paper" through the ebook reader. Would you pay the same for beef at the butchers if you had to bring your own cow? The cost of distribution also plummets, what do you rather send, a paper book or a megabyte (and text books are well under that) of data? Could you even express the cost of transmitting that amount of data in whole cents anymore?

Then there is the fact that the costs remain the same no matter where the ebook is send, that there are no losses or damages in transportation and that there is no wait time for delivery.

The costs of stocking disappear as well, you only need to stock one "copy" of the book and then can sell it through the magic of the computer a million times over. The ebook doesn't get old, can't be stolen from inventory, doesn't get eaten by rats. It just sits there, pristine, ready to be sold anytime there is a buyer. For a company like amazon that stores a great many books going to ebooks would mean a fortune saved in warehouse space.

The cost savings of going to ebooks are gigantic.

Yet we still got a price of $9.99 for an ebook when all that is really left is to pay the author, a bit of hardware and software and electricity?

The cost of production has very little to do with the selling price; it only determines if you can make a profit. People pay for their perceived value; which for a book is the entertainment or information received. That's why some authors sell millions of copies at $30 and others can't give their work away; even though both have the same production costs (assuming the same size print run). Publishers are in the business of maximizing profit. I have no doubt publishers will find ways to do that with ebooks; trading of price for volume. Ebooks may even make that easier as you can dynamically change the price based on demand; who says there needs to be a fixed price on a book? When an unknown author gets hot you can up the price as well as drop it as sales taper off.

As a side note, many people will no doubt chime in that this lets anyone become an author without having to get a publisher to print and distribute a book; that's correct but that's been true for quite some time know. There's still the small matter of an editor - that person that turns a manuscript into a readable document. So it's not just "all that is really left is to pay the author, a bit of hardware and software and electricity."

Re:Too expensive

[mmurphy000]

Paper books have to be printed, they have to be printed before you buy them and this costs lots of money. The publisher has to take a gamble on how many books can be sold, he will then put in an order for that amount at a printer, who wants his money NOW thank you very much. He will then have to stock those books before sending them to the various retailers. Those retailers will have to stock the books as well, until the customer hopefully end up buying them, eventually. In the meantime a lot of the books will get damaged and be less desirable to buy.

Print-on-demand (POD) eliminates most of what you describe here. With POD, books mostly are printed when needed for purchase. Many of the books you buy on Amazon are POD, including those from Lulu.com. Even if Amazon.com elects to inventory some of a title, they'll only hang onto a small handful of copies, not the hundreds or thousands normally associated with a traditional print run. POD printing isn't ridiculously more expensive than traditional printing, and you make it up on not having money tied up in inventory.

Yet we still got a price of $9.99 for an ebook when all that is really left is to pay the author, a bit of hardware and software and electricity?

If the author self-publishes, you still need to factor in the discounts given to the retailer to cover their cost of selling the book. If the author uses a traditional publisher, they too get their cut. Even if the author self-publishes, don't forget a small slice for the payment processor (PayPal, credit card authorizing service, etc.). Plus the cost of hiring an editor, book cover designer, and indexer, if the author isn't taking on those roles herself. Olus Web site design, marketing expenses (books don't always sell themselves), etc.

What you will likely see is more authors self-publishing, and those who intend to write regularly charging an annual subscription fee rather than a per-title price. The authors get some semblance of recurring revenue, readers get a continuous stream of material (updates to existing books plus new books) at a lot lower price point per ebook than $10. Here, you can use POD not only for a revenue stream, but as a promotional vehicle to sell one's ebook subscriptions, plus cater to the audience that prefers printed books.

Re:Too expensive

[jonwil]

Basically, if allowed Amazon or Apple to sell an e-book of cheaper than the paperback is sold at, all the bricks and mortar bookstores who are selling the paperback will complain.

Its the same reason why buying games on Steam doesn't cost less than buying them from GameStop or Wal-Mart, if it did, GameStop and Wal-Mart would be a lot less willing to carry the game.

Re:Too expensive

[Vadim Makarov]

Have you been to IRC channel bookz at Undernet Europe?

I'm sticking with pirate channels of distributions until publishers offer at least a comparable service, in volume and in quality (the latter is easy, as most texts in pirate libraries are bad OCRs). Hey, I gladly paid to allofmp3 while it lasted: it was in some ways a better service than peer-to-peer networks, and offered a selection of music that was not available in any other e-store.

Re:Too expensive

[edittard]

an editor - that person that turns a manuscript into a readable document.

You must be new here.

Re:Too expensive

[Attila Dimedici]

When ebooks finally come into existence, publishers will find themselves in the same position that the RIAA members find themselves in now, with a business model that does not support the types of profit that they are used to. Publishers currently add a lot of value to the book. They produce the, relatively, expensive distribution media (paper book), they market the product, they manage the distribution, etc. Now, publishers have two things going for them that the record industry didn't. First, the costs involved are large enough that the profit is not as enormous as what the record industry was making. Two, the costs involved have been falling steadily for several decades, lowering the barriers to entry. This second point means that there are constantly new and innovative companies entering the field. This means that publishers are constantly facing competition that forces them to rethink their business model. Of course, one of the reasons that we don't have ebooks as a common phenomena yet is because publishers have continued to try and develop one that they have proprietary control over.

Re:Too expensive

[TheRaven64]

Yet we still got a price of $9.99 for an ebook when all that is really left is to pay the author, a bit of hardware and software and electricity? Speaking as someone who has just had a book published, I can tell you this is categorically not true. Until you go through the process, you have no idea of how much effort a publisher puts into editing. My book had technical reviewers, copy editors, production editors, etc. All of these served a useful rôle improving the quality of the manuscript. This is what you are paying for; the publisher to go to the effort of ensuring that the book meets certain expectations of quality (the exact level of these expectations varying a lot between publishers).

Re:Too expensive

[joTeX]

There are channels for distributing e-books for free. My bug-bear as a publisher is that there doesn't seem to be anybody providing that service without demanding that downloaders join their site. I want to be able to provide my books (printed at Lulu) as an ebook to everyone, without their having to sign up to something which they may never use again. It's free publicity in exchange for a product which is no extra cost to me to produce - a win-win, surely? Anybody know a site which does this?

Re:Too expensive

[rastoboy29]

It's really no different than the music biz--just lacking a standard, open format and a cool portable device to read books on.

This device....isn't it.

Re:Too expensive

[JSlope]

They already do this in Russia. And most popular modern Russian Sci-Fi writer has a link from his blog to his on-line shop where he sells his books. One book costs about $1, compared to about $2-3 for paper book. So it's doable and possible. Most people there read books on PDA.

Re:Too expensive

[mclearn]

Why is it so hard for these types of companies to understand that the less you sell something for, the more you sell. Rather then trying to squeeze a limited audience for all you can, squeeze them less and find yourselve with a bigger audience.

Game theory dictates that there is an optimum cost-benefit for things. The lower the price, the more that sells *might* be true, but there are only so many people who will buy certain things: eg. there is only a finite number of people in the world. So you need to run various scenarios in which simulate what threshold of price you think people might buy things for. You then map these results out and determine your optimum price point.

Look at it this way: if you make things INFINITELY expensive, you get zero sales. If you make things cost zero, then you will get zero sales because it COSTS money to produce (anything) and you cannot do it without going bankrupt. Information is, alas, not free -- as much as people want it to be. If nothing else, it costs money SOMEWHERE to get a computer up and running. So let's assume those two extrema are more-or-less accurate. I think we can agree that a sales graph that is flat at zero sales will not garner a whole lot of enthusiasm. Therefore, there is likely a point somewhere between 0 and +INF where the graph reaches a maximum. This is the science in pricing. Then you factor in the psychology of the people as an extra dimension. This is why popcorn at the cinema costs way more than you would reasonably expect anywhere except at the cinema. The accountants/financial people KNOW that it is likely you will buy at an inflated price.

Re:Too expensive

[MBraynard]

Your whole comment could have been summarized into one sentence: "I don't undertand that prices are based on the maximum that people are willing to pay and not what the actual product costs to produce, so I am going to whine like a little bitch - after all, this is Slashdot."

On a side note, allowing book stores to have on-demand printing will do a lot to save the industry money and still allow me to have my trusty hardcovers.

How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS?

[lena_10326]

To read E-Books.... Search google for ebook+psp or ebook+ds and you'll see lots of into on them.

If I was into ebooks, I'd probably prefer reading them on a PSP because it's screen is wide. For reading, a wide screen is more important than a tall or square screen... IMO.

Nope! The Future is Ebooks Read on Cell Phones

[Ron Bennett]

EBooks delivered to and read on Cell Phones is the future.

Screen resolution on cell phones has greatly improved allowing much more text to be displayed...

Of course, reading such a small screen poses challanges ... but a simple magnifier lens solves that problem ... could be in the form of a snap-on for regular glasses or as a separate bluetooth unit that's worn over one eye; guy from MIT used something like that for over 5 years to surf the internet most anywhere he went ... to digress a bit, I wouldn't be surprised if in say 5 years, accounts of people walking into other people, walls, cars, etc become commonplace.

There's also a psychology factor to consider - people are already accustom to paying for extra stuff (ring tones, wall papers, etc) via their cell phone; billing system is already in place.

Plus young people, especially teens and younger, are very comfortable with reading text off a computer screen - they aren't as emotionally attached to physical books as older people are; many schools / colleges are increasingly transitioning over to on-line instruction ... in 10 or so years, most students likely won't even have physical textbooks anymore - it will be all on computer; cell phones will be one of the many methods by which people will be able to study while on the go.

Ron

Re:Nope! The Future is Ebooks Read on Cell Phones

[lena_10326]

It'd have to be a PDA style cell phone, or possibly PDA style table PC. I don't think tiny cell phones will ever be suitable for extended reading, no matter the resolution. No one wants to carry around magnifiers either.

Re:Nope! The Future is Ebooks Read on Cell Phones

[Ron Bennett]

I agree that carrying around a lens could be a hassle for many people, but is a simple, viable solution that will work today.

Looking way into the future, it may be possible for cell phone manufactures to come up with a screen that appears much larger when viewed from a normal reading distance - that is to say the enlarged image would appear to float about a foot or so above the actual screen.

Ron

Re:Nope! The Future is Ebooks Read on Cell Phones

[lena_10326]

It would be pretty simple to merge existing technology to accomplish that. Cell phone plus glasses. In fact, wikipedia mentions it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_retinal_display

Re:Nope! The Future is Ebooks Read on Cell Phones

[larry bagina]

could be in the form of a strap-on for regular dildoes or as a separate buttplug unit that's worn in the anus; guy from BDSM used something like that for over 5 years to tickle his prostate most anywhere he went ... to digress a bit, I wouldn't be surprised if in say 5 years, accounts of people humping other people, dogs, cats, etc become commonplace.

Fixed it for you

[sakdoctor]

...Amazon's imminent introduction an affordable ebook. Quench, which is named to evoke the squelching suppression of knowledge by DRM, has the dimensions of a paperback...

eBook reader, Sony & Amazon

[w3c.org]

Ok, I've not RTFA, but i've quickly perused through the article, and first, one thing that's bothering me : no price yet. Sony's Reader has been for sale for some time now, and was recently out of stock, so I think it sold quite well. It hadn't been sold anywhere in Europe for now, that's a bad thing. Now I don't really see what's the point, on Amazon's eBook reader, of having a full keyboard and EVDO connectivity. Is that a thing that attract kids now ? putting some devices together, saying it's an advance in technology ? I prefer using the usb connection on Sony's eBook reader.
Another thing that's bothering me is the size of Amazon's eReader. The full keyboard adds to the size of the thing, and again I don't see the point of that keyboard. Maybe a bluetooth connection, so that we could buy eBooks with our cellphone, and then transfer it wirelessly. That would be a great thing i'd like to see in a future version of Sony's Reader.

Re:eBook reader, Sony & Amazon

[JohnFluxx]

You can't quickly peruse.

Peruse means to study it in detail, carefully, thoroughly.

More info...

[ThreeGigs]

From 2 months ago (Engadget):
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader/

$399 is too much for something that's bigger than a PDA or smartphone and does less, doesn't take standard AA batteries, displays in two-bit greyscale, can't be left in a car on a sunny day, has a headhone jack and cellular CDMA capability but can't make a phone call, can't scribble in the margins or highlight.

Cross an iPhone and a OLPC laptop together, and you'd get a better ebook.

Re:More info...

[dyefade]

"Posted Sep 11th 2006"

From a year and 2 months ago. Knowing that, can we really rely on that picture?

Re:More info...

[foniksonik]

Uh you're forgetting the fact that is is high resolution and lasts 30 hours on a 2 hour charge. A good eBook reader should have twice the resolution of the iPhone (which is already much higher than your average PDA/Laptop). Here's a link to one with 1200 x 1600 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/e_ink/seiko-high+res-super+thin-ebook-reader-323502.php.

So you are correct that amazon's offering is less than ideal but don't discount the idea of a good ebook reader... prices will fall when people start buying them and the tech will improve at the same price point.

I'd like to see Apple's version of an eBook reader... some say a tablet form factor is in the pipeline... maybe it has high res display and can be a good reader (but will probably cost more than $399!)

I don't get this

[rolfwind]

I mean a six inch screen at $399? What's so revolutionary? I can get a sony ereader with eink right now for $299:

http://www.amazon.com/E-reader-Portable-Silver-E-book-Approx/dp/B000WPXQ2M

and it looks a million times better with less buttons. While I personally want to buy it, I won't until the screen is the size of textbooks or a standard 8x11 page sheet. I hate squinting -- I might as well read off a PDA if they keep insisting on making screens so small. What is so frustrating is that we could have our libraries - every newspaper we read, every book we ever bought, every textbook in such devices already with current technology.

But how long will it be in coming? Will textbook manufacturers stall until the wikibooks project provides real competition on any level?

Will the future releases of J.K. Rowling come in pdf or will they wait until, like music, they can't ignore the market due to downloads they don't get any compensation for?

Re:I don't get this

[antifoidulus]

The whole purpose of the ebook is to be the size of a paperback, which ISNT 8.5x11....If you had one that big then it wouldn't be nearly as portable, or convenient for reading on places like trains buses etc. As per squinting, you are aware the text is resizable, correct? On my sony ebook I can get the text to be incredibly big if I so desire. If you are still squinting with the bigger text size, then I would suggest you see an optometrist.

Re:I don't get this

[bobocopy]

Moreover, there's the even more aesthetically-pleasing, less DRM-ridden Bookeen Cybook for $350. Does it run Linux? Yes.

Re:I don't get this

[ucblockhead]

Yeah, they are aiming at the wrong music. Instead of selling to the casual reader, who buys paperbacks, they should sell to people who buy technical references, who 1) are used to shelling out $30-40 for a book and 2) who often want to be able to access many books at once. A single fiction paperback is fine for the train and costs little. On the other hand, I'd kill for a device that would let me carry 10-15 O'Reilly references in my backpack. Unfortunately, the current devices don't render safari PDFs well because the screen is too small.

Re:I don't get this

[ccp]

The whole purpose of the ebook is to be the size of a paperback, which ISNT 8.5x11....If you had one that big then it wouldn't be nearly as portable, or convenient for reading on places like trains buses etc.

Do you realize that 8.5x11 is the size of almost every magazine?
I guess nobody reads them in trains, buses,etc.

Cheers,
CC

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[lena_10326]

is that you won't get the feel from turning pages, the thickness of the book the weight.

I think the problem with electronic reading is a problem of orientation. It's hard to get a feel for what you've read, how much you've read, how much is left, and how to locate what you read when it's an electronic document. It's also harder to scan ahead for pictures, which are landmarks, due to loading time. With a paper book or magazine, you have a 3-dimensional sense of where things are.

Easy to read edition

[dotancohen]

All 7 pages of TFA with no ads

Re:Easy to read edition

[Hucko]

All 7 pages of TFA with one ad

there, fixed it for you

Re:Easy to read edition

[dotancohen]

It's so small, I didn't even notice it.

(Strange, I'm usually the one hearing that instead of saying it.)

Re:Easy to read edition

[Hucko]

a 7 page ad is small?

Re:Easy to read edition

[dotancohen]

I didn't look at the article that way, but yeah, I guess you're right. Although, advertisements usually have, you know, PICTURES of the product...

Two Conditions..

[aero2600-5]

I would consider purchasing one of these if it met two important criteria:

1. You can read it in the sunlight. 99% of most LCD screens can't be read for shit in the sunlight.
2. For $9.99, I better not have to have to pay for that fucker again, ever.

And even then, I would still wait a year, so that they don't pull an 'iPhone' on me.

Aero

Re:Two Conditions..

[bhiestand]

I would consider purchasing one of these if it met two important criteria:

1. You can read it in the sunlight. 99% of most LCD screens can't be read for shit in the sunlight.
2. For $9.99, I better not have to have to pay for that fucker again, ever.

And even then, I would still wait a year, so that they don't pull an 'iPhone' on me. I can't promise the latter, but my sony reader works just fine in the sunlight. It's not an LCD, though, it's e-ink. This means I need a book light to read it in the dark.

Re:Two Conditions..

[petes_PoV]

I'd also want to know what happens if I lose the device, or when it breaks. Will I have a method of saving my ebooks somewhere else, or do I have to buy everything again.

evoke the crackling ignition of knowledge

[Threni]

More likely the cracking sound of cheap Chinese plastic when you sit on and destroy it. That never happens with paperbacks, and if you do damage/lose a paperback, you just buy another one for a few coins.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[matthew.coulson]

Also look at Palmfiction on a HiRes+ Palm device. Far superior 320x480 touchscreen loveliness, and fantastic battery life.

Dawning of a new era

[kihbord]

Is this the dawning of a new era? The obsolescence of the "bookshelf"?

Re:Dawning of a new era

[noamsml]

No.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

Also look at Palmfiction on a HiRes+ Palm device. Far superior 320x480 touchscreen loveliness, and fantastic battery life.

I just don't get why I should buy a special (single) purpose e-book reader at $400 when I've already got a powerful handheld (PSP and DS) that's capable of doing it. Most households have cellphones and/or handheld game systems. Those are the systems you target if you're a smart businessman.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

an iPod for books?

[petes_PoV]

and like the iPod, it will stand or fall on two fundementals:

• the user interface
• the available content (and its price)

However, unlike an mp3 player, this cannot be just a passive device: plug yourself into it and vegetate. It will need user interaction for every page, so apart from looking pretty, this UI will have to actually be usable.

Now if Amazon want to really make this take off, they'll make it able to read the book to you. Apart from never overestimating the intelligence of the user, this would also make it much more accessible to the young and the visaually impared. It would also make the device usable outdoors in daylight - a failing that every other screen based device has, and shows no signs of being fixed.

Re:an iPod for books?

[sakredkow]

What I want is an ebook combined with a music player.

$399 affordable? don't be silly!

[Lazy Jones]

The entry price for a book is usually $10 or less. A $399 gadget (in the order of magnitude of a laptop or e.g. ASUS Eee PC) just to do the same is too expensive and unattractive. True, you can carry around many books with you that way, but you can do that with a laptop as well.

I'll call this revolutionary when the reader costs $50 or less (or is free) and when the books cost $2. Not when you get ripped off on the reader as well as on the book price (zero cost for the manufacturer, same or higher price than a paper book).

Re:$399 affordable? don't be silly!

[debest]

I half agree with you. The price of books should be from $2 to $10 (variable, depending on the volume of sales), with the more popular and older works definitely at the lower end of that scale. I'd also be willing to put up with non-insane DRM at that price.

But I would pay $400 for a well-engineered, well-built reader. A device that would be about the same dimensions as a smallish laptop, only really thin. A full-sized screen (about 12"). Designed to take a lot of punishment. Able to display ordinary PDFs properly. Software to vary the text size and to rotate the book from landscape to portrait instantly. A good user interface.

In short, a piece of hardware that is built to be usable (and profitable for its manufacturer) without being beholden to publishers for continued book sales going forward. If the hardware is tied to a book sales service, it will suck. If the hardware is unattached to the publishing industry, it may suck, but not necessarily so.

Re:$399 affordable? don't be silly!

[sdhankin]

When the iPod first came out, there were two models. One was $399 and the other was $499. All the arguments you make about your laptop were valid for the iPod as well. Yet it has been very successful, to say the least. To my knowledge, $50 iPods aren't yet available. Songs are mostly $.99.

The iPod has also come down in cost substantially. If the Kindle is successful, I'd expect the same thing to happen. First generation is always expensive.

As for book prices, the market will likely decide. I think $10 for new NYT bestsellers is a step in the right direction. Perhaps that will get cheaper as well.

The publishing industry is facing many of the same hard digital transition issues that the music industry is. It needs to change to survive. While I'm not at all sure that this is the answer, they'll have to consider it as an option, or face the same kinds of problems that the music industry is struggling with.

Re:Books is stupid.

[Ceriel Nosforit]

GOTO is considered harmful.

...which is why it will fail

[DingerX]

DRM, like crime, never pays.

An EVDO connection instead of WiFi: Well, okay, 802.11x sucks for a variety of reasons, but there is one good thing about it: many people have home networks that use it. EVDO? That's a fancy way of saying "we control the device's access to the internet, and you will pay for it."

According to the article, "classics" will be available for $2/pop, and you can subscribe to blogs for $1/month. You know, classics, like the ones that are out of copyright, and blogs, like the ones you can get for free.

How many times do companies come out with a "cool product", and then think it will succeed purely as a vector for other purchases? It might work for video games (where the base product's performance and design is unique) and inkjets (where the supplies drive the retail price), but here you're competing with services that are free. You want to point to the iPod and ITMS? What percentage of tracks on all iPods out there were purchased at ITMS?

Okay, one more thing, this time from Microsoft's Hill:

There's 550 years of technological development in the book, and it's all designed to work with the four to five inches from the front of the eye to the part of the brain that does the processing [of the symbols on the page],

There's more than that. Codices have been around since late antiquity (I dunno, 4th century maybe?). Before that, we had papyrus rolls. Books are also more versatile than that, with some being designed to be read from across the room.

Finally, how fast does kindle let you flip through the pages?

Like many other people here, I've been waiting for an affordable and usable eInk reader, but this ain't it either.

Re:...which is why it will fail

[slashhsals]

Crime does pay off,what world do you live in? Please help me to get there!

Convergance is the breakthrough

[Registered Coward v2]

I agree that wireless is the killer part of this device - you now have a way to get readable documents to someone instantly via pdfs. No longer do you need to connect a laptop and d/l a file or struggle to read a pdf on a PDA; all you need to do is email it to a Kindle. The question is how well does it do gray scale (no mention of color) so taht you can get reasonable reproductions of documents.

In addition, it'll be interesting to see what is in this for Sprint. While I am interested in the device I don't want to pay for yet another wireless device on a monthly basis; my guess is Sprint will get a cut of the sales. That means the Kindle can't become an exchange documents a lot and browse the internet but buy one or two books a year device without Sprint getting upset over the lack of profits. Maybe they will serve up their own adds on the browser? That would be an interesting proposition since you would be able to narrowly target ads to desired market segments since Amazon / Sprint knows who owns the device.

I wonder if KindleMail will be two way - i.e. can I send a markup of a pdf to someone? Or can I, for a small fee, send a marked page or pages to someone from a copyrighted work?

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[Virtual_Raider]

That's cause you didn't RTFA. It is not single purpose, it has wireless connection and also audio so conceivably it's a competitor for other devices, such as music players. From TFA:

The Kindle's real breakthrough springs from a feature that its predecessors never offered: wireless connectivity, via a system called Whispernet. (It's based on the EVDO broadband service offered by cell-phone carriers, allowing it to work anywhere, not just Wi-Fi hotspots.) As a result, says Bezos, "This isn't a device, it's a service."

I just skimmed the article so I may have missed whether you have to subscribe to some particular data plan to use this feature, but it does say that you can subscribe to newspapers, magazines and blogs and get them >beamed to you as they become available. You don't even have to go get them. Now that is something that will convince people that want to use things rather than toy with them as techies do.

so why will I need a publisher any more?

[petes_PoV]

(BTW, this is fiction!)

I'm a household name (at least in the literate households) and I've just written my next best-seller. Where exactly does a publisher feature, if the book only appears as an eBook? They won't need to publish (i.e. print) anything and I can obtain the services of a publicist myself.

What that means is all the royalties go to me - and then to the tax-man, without having a mega-corporation in the middle, skimming most of my pay.

Even for the unknown authors, it will be easier, if somewhat more crowded, to get published. Unlike a musician, you won't need instruments and a (home?) studio - just a copy of vi and an internet connection.

Re:so why will I need a publisher any more?

[Jeff Duntemann]

Publishing != printing. Publishers, when doing their jobs well, see a hair past what the author submits to what the book could be with a little polish. (They pay people such as copy editors and developmental editors to add that polish.) I get stuff thrown at me when I say so, but publishers also act as quality gatekeepers, if for no better reason than they have some money on the line. Now, with ebook publishing, that initial investment in paper and ink is reduced to almost nothing, and it's mostly the publisher's reputation that drives quality.

Given their overwhelming dominance of online book sales, Amazon has the power to completely change the business. We don't know what publishers will have to do--or, more important on my side, pay--to get books into their online store. We don't know who will impose the DRM: Amazon or the publishers. (I will not impose DRM on the titles I publish.) We don't know with any clarity how useful the device will be for reading local files, or how many formats it will support. (For $400, it should damned well be all of them.)

I'm guessing that they priced it high and will reduce the price significantly once they realize nobody's biting. Nobody seems to learn anything in this business.

But hoo-boy, what this thing could do to the publishing world at $99 a unit!

Is it waterproof?

[digitig]

If it's not waterproof, when I drop it in the bath I'll be $400 down instead of $10 down. And will I have to turn my book off during take-off and landing? Oh look, I'd need to change my mobile phone service provider! How much does EVDO cost, anyway? I can't find anybody offering UK-based contracts? Can I mark text with different coloured hi-lighters and draw diagrams in the margin?

Looks to me as if it might find a place alongside the book, but I don't see it being a replacement any time soon.

Re:Is it waterproof?

[slim]

Possibly you wrote that before all the facts were out, but the phone network charge is billed to Amazon, and how it gets paid is invisible to the consumer -- we can only guess what contract they've dreamed up. A fixed per-byte charge? A cut of book sales? A fixed annual charge? Who knows?

By bringing up UK EVDO, though, you do raise a question. How will this device deal with roaming? At present it is only sold on US Amazon.com, and it's tied to a Sprint network in the US. If an American user leaves US soil with one of these, I assume all connectivity will be lost. Will the eventual European model use 3G instead? Will later models feature hybrid phone technology so that world travelers have a continuous service?

Ebook Copyrights

[Danathar]

The ONE reason I don't buy ebooks anymore is due to copyrights.

With a book it's quite LEGAL for me to loan what I've purchased to somebody else. With most ebooks I can't. They usually are locked up with DRM as well. The publishers want to treat ebooks like traditional software (in regards to copyright). You can't just check out an ebook at the library free of charge (usually) and you can bet the publishers would like it to stay that way as they generally hate libraries.

The liberal copyright restrictions on books when it comes to loaning them to somebody else is very important.

Re:Ebook Copyrights

[rastoboy29]

Tell me about it.  A few years ago I stared reading Patrick O'brien ("Master and Commander" series--which is superb, btw), and after getting tired of picking up my giant unabridged Wester's every page or so (those Brits do love their thesauri, and O'brien was learned as well), I started looking for an electronic version.  Only version I could find was for Palm, so I finally went and got my first Palm Pilot.  So that was my killer app for that.

Thing is, whenever I let the battery go completely dead, the license disappears, and I have to search around for the license and re-enter it.  Plus, I know that it's lifetime is limited to the lifetime of Palm OS.

However, at least in this case, I did benefit by being able to carry my big dictionary with me with the book I was reading to do constant lookups.

rasto
p.s. Check out the first definition of "junk" sometime...and you'll see why you need the big guy for reading those books.

Re:Ebook Copyrights

[jea6]

I can check out ebooks from my public library: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/dbsremote/resource/ebook.htm. Audiobooks too: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/dbsremote/resource/audiobooks.htm.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

That's cause you didn't RTFA. It is not single purpose, it has wireless connection and also audio so conceivably it's a competitor for other devices, such as music players. From TFA:

Maybe you didn't read the other articles then. How about this quote? salon.com

Details are skimpy. The device, reports say, will have Wi-Fi, Sprint's EV-DO wireless service to make book purchases on the go,

Or how about this quote? cnn.com

The Kindle is equipped with a Wi-Fi connection that taps into an Amazon e-book store, which users can access to purchase new electronic books--and Amazon has reportedly signed onto a deal with Sprint for EVDO access. Additionally, the device comes with a headphone jack for audiobooks, as well as an e-mail address.

But the source said the Kindle apparently won't bear many other BlackBerry-like features such as a calendar or address book. The Kindle may also lack a backlight. Instead, it comes with a small reading light attached to an adjustable arm.

Wireless that connects to their "service". Yea. Nice multi-functionality. I assume you're assuming you'll be able to freely surf any site you want. How do you know? The product isn't out yet. You're making it up or guessing if you think you know.

Ok. There'll be audio output. Wowzee... just what everyone was waiting for: playing audio CD's and MP3's on a clunky $400 e-book reader. OOoo. Hot seller.

Oh yea, and I'm sure I'll be dumping my small $75 cell phone for this reader to catch all my email. Yes!

Can it run a PDA version of office? How about games? How about a web browser? How about synching my desktop files? Slapping WiFi and an audio output on this device hardly makes it multi-function. Face it. It's a book reader, single purpose. That's how it's supposedly functions, what the available specs indicate, and what all the marketing hype advertises. That's it. It's nothing special.

Will it include all the "books" I already own...

[Joce640k]

If this included a copy of all the books I already own then it would be a good deal. ...but I suspect he's hoping I'll pay all over again for an 'e' version of them.

Too expensive

[crunzh]

399 when you can get a paperback for lets say 10 USD, then thats 40 books for the price of this. Thats quite a lot, I really like to read books but rarely get time to read more than 1 a week, so this thing cost the same as allmost my yearly book habit, without actually giving me any books to read. There are no way I am going to cash out that amount of money.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[jackharrer]

Actually it's much easier than physical books. You can set bookmarks, it automatically opens documents on pages where you finish and so on. Don't forget that everything is done in the software - as long as people want new features, they will be added pretty quick - like for example thumbnails to scan quickly for images.

But once again - not everything is for everybody - ebook readers will be a great supplement for books, hopefully they will even help some people start reading once again. Considering so many people who commute nowadays and their fluency of internet that's highly probable.

Just wait for some sexy ebook reader from Apple ;)

$9.99 for a book?

[s_p_oneil]

Why are companies so greedy? When I buy a book, I go to a store and buy it in paperback, which is cheaper than $9.99. So this company wants to sell me a book without the paper (which saves them a lot of money on production and distribution costs), and yet they still want to charge me even more? An e-book is worth less than a paperback to me, it costs them a hell of a lot less to make and distribute copies, and I'm certain it will be bound up in DRM so tightly that you can't use it with different devices, which means you will have to buy it again when that device goes out of style. Does that sound like a good deal to anyone here?

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[ZedNaught]

You want to see greed?

Textbooks prices are brutal.

"Bivalve Molluscs: Biology, Ecology and Culture"
ISBN: 978-0-85238-234-9
Hardcover
443 pages
January 2003
Print Edition: US $199.00
eBook Edition: US $179.99

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[s_p_oneil]

Actually, it's "almost" understandable for advanced college textbooks. The target audience is so small in some cases that it's barely worth writing the book. Also, in college almost everyone buys a used book if they can, and then sells it back at the end of the semester, making it even less worthwhile to write/print the book. I'm not saying they're not overcharging at all, but I doubt they're making a killing off them (although I could be wrong ;-).

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[rastoboy29]

Greedy==stupid==greedy.  Most of the media companies are run by people who inherited a rather old business model.  They are far from entrepreneurs.  If they were entrepreneurial, they would have started their own companies.  They are followers.

They'd better start learning fast though, 'cause their time is running out to avoid becoming Darwinized.

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[HunterD]

Go look at the prices again. $9.99 is for any book on the NY Times best seller list which are *all* hardcovers books. The average price of the ebooks this is referring to is less then *half* the cover price of the paper copy, and generally 50% lower then the paper copy from amazon.

Examples:
You: Staying Young: The Owner's Manual for Extending Your Warranty
Cover price: $26.00
Amazon print Price: $15.60
Kindle price: $9.99
http://www.amazon.com/You-Staying-Owners-Extending-Warranty/dp/B000UZNS36/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1195508317&sr=1-1

Stephen Colbert's I Am America (And So Can You!)
Cover price: $26.99
Amazon print price: $16.19
Kindle price: $9.99
http://www.amazon.com/Am-America-So-Can-You/dp/B000UZJR9U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1195508317&sr=1-4

Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology
Cover price: $18.00
Amazon print price: $12.24
Kindle price: $11.02
http://www.amazon.com/Singularity-Near-Humans-Transcend-Biology/dp/B000QCSA7C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1195508465&sr=1-1

No, I don't work for Amazon, and I don't work in the publishing industry. It just irritates me when people scream about greed when the actual data doesn't bear out their assertion. There are plenty of cases of actual naked greed out there, why pick on things that don't bear that out.

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[s_p_oneil]

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/index.html

Click on that link, press Ctrl+F, then type in "paperback". The NYT not only has best-seller lists for paperback books, it actually has multiple lists for different types of paperbacks. Your point kind of vanishes from there. If TFA specifically says 9.99 for hardcover books, then I missed it and I apologize. But I didn't see that distinction made in TFA. And I still think the life-time of the e-book will be an issue. I usually read a book once when I buy it, and if I like it, I may read it again 5-10 years later.

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[HunterD]

Well, it's easy enough to test:

PAPERBACK MASS-MARKET FICTION

Top 5 at a Glance
1. THE BANCROFT STRATEGY, by Robert Ludlum
Paperback: $9.99
Kindle: $9.99

2. CROSS, by James Patterson
Paperback: $9.99
Kindle: $5.59

3. TREASURE OF KHAN, by Clive Cussler and Dirk Cussler
Paperback: $9.99
Kindle: $9.99

4. WIFE FOR HIRE, by Janet Evanovich
Paperback: $7.99
Kindle: $6.39

5. WILD FIRE, by Nelson DeMille
Paperback: $9.99
Kindle: $9.99

So the evidence suggests that amazon is selling books via kindle at or below the mass market paperback price, irrespective of the book being presently released in mass market paperback.

Re:$9.99 for a book?

[Bat Country]

Excuse me, but where the hell do you buy books?

The list price on most stuff I read (mostly fiction) is $10-15, and even buying it discounted runs $7-12. A new hardcover (if you can't wait to read it) will cost you $15-35, a good fat programming or computer themed book might cost as much as $50, and a textbook runs $70-120.

I'd say $10 for a book which is being wired to you in under 30 seconds isn't that damned expensive, unless you only read used books or new ones that are more than a year old.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[eddy]

Maybe the device should have a movable weight in it that would move in one direction as you make progress in your book, shifting the devices COG/balance. This way you'd get a feel for "where you are" even if it wouldn't be exactly the same feeling as with a real book.

Hasn't this idea already failed?

[walterbyrd]

Wasn't this idea tried years ago? And wasn't it a complete failure? The entire thing is too expensive, and too big a pain.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[caramelcarrot]

I see this as being pretty good for reading PDFs and it would be great if combined with a touchscreen for note-taking over the top. My department publishes PDF lecture notes for all my courses, so I could just download them before attending the lecture and note over the top.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[lena_10326]

Bookmarks are generally presented as a list on a menu or a sidebar. It's a good way to record "checkpoints" but finding and using them is still not 3-dimensional experience.

If a new fancy GUI is created that changes all of this by finding visual ways of presenting the book, bookmarks and previously read pages--in high resolution on a wide screen (say a PSP)--then I'd completely change my mind. However, as long as books read like web browsers or PDF readers, I won't be able to switch.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[Aladrin]

I can't answer how -this- beats a PSP or DS, but I have an n800 and I can answer how that does.

The large screen is a must. The DS's screen doesn't get enough text on it at once, even using both screens, to read at a good clip.

The touch screen is -really- useful. I can tap a corner of the 'page' with my thumb and it'll go forward or backward in the text.

You don't have to hack or buy a questionably-legal cartridge to use the n800 for reading.

I can guess the Kindle would also add: 30 hours of battery life, and paper-like screen which could be easier on the eyes.

I bought the n800 mainly for ebook reading. I use it for other things as well now, but it really was just another $400 ebook reader when I bought it. But it -could- do other things, which this Kindle cannot. No Skype phone, web browsing, organizer, etc, etc.

One last unrelated thing: I see everyone talking about DRM'd ebooks. I have never bought a DRM'd ebook in my life and never will. I buy my books from baen.com (ALL completely DRM free and in several formats) which has -years- of good books that I don't have yet, and they release more each month than I can read in a month. In addition, Project Gutenburg has the classics.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[grumbel]

### It's hard to get a feel for what you've read, how much you've read, how much is left,

That really shouldn't be a problem, a simple statusbar or the usual 10/700 page indicator tell you perfectly fine where you are. One could even go further and track exactly what you have already read, how long you spend on specific pages, how often you revisited them and when one installs a eye-tracker into these things you could have a word-by-word track-record of what you have actually read from the book. Sure, it might take a moment to get used to it, but its really not a disadvantage of eBooks, just a matter of getting used to a new tool.

### It's also harder to scan ahead for pictures, which are landmarks, due to loading time. With a paper book or magazine, you have a 3-dimensional sense of where things are.

Its certainly a problem, since PDF-eBooks are very slow on redraw, even on a powerful PC you can't skim through a whole 700 page book in a matter of seconds. That dedicated eBook readers aren't exactly fast on redrawing even simple text pages of course doesn't help either. However a zooming interface, combined with high resolution display (see Seadragon demo) could go along way to give you all the benefit you have when skimming through a real book.

Charging batteries

[mh1997]

powered by a battery that gets up to 30 hours from a 2-hour charge.

The biggest problem I have with reading a physical book is lack of light.

If my cell phone and laptop are any indication, my biggest problem with ebooks is that when I want to read, I'll have forgotten to charge the damn thing.

If they would add an "emergency" generator like in those shake flashlights, so that I could get a 15 minute charge after shaking it for 30 seconds, I'd buy it.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[jackharrer]

>However, as long as books read like web browsers or PDF readers, I won't be able to switch.

That's the reason that most ebook readers show the whole page. It feels more like a book and less like a pdf reader. But you're right, there's a still long way to go before we get a proper book-like experience. That's the reason I'm hoping that Apple will jump on a bandwagon and create some nice and, especially, usable GUI.

My favoured saying: Time will tell.

Durability of the device is paramount

[oronet commander]

400$ is not too much money, and is in line with other offerings (Sony Reader, Cybook 3) and so on. However, current electronic devices have a too limited lifespan. If it only lasts 3 years, one must read many books for the thing to become somehow profitable. Quite a lot, except for real reading-lovers...

Not ready yet...

[gweihir]

In fact I think a dedicated book-reader will never have any significant market share. What it needs is that everybody carries a PDA araund, that can also serve as a book reader. Until then, a genuine paperback has huge advantages:

- Cost: Cheap. If it gets wet or you losse it, no issue.
- Reliable: Works. And everybody understands what it can and cannot do.
- Resilient: Works when damaged. Pretty hard to destroy to non-functionality unintentionally.
- Compatible: Works with eyeball mark one and light mark one. No vendor lock-in here.
- Easy to use: Flip a page.
- Versatile: Can also double as fire-starter, toilet-paper, doorstop, ...
- Durable: If stored carefully, will still work after decades
- Non-surprising behaviour: No virusses, disk-crashes, empty batteries, ...

The only advantage I see in a dedicated ebook is the following:

- Simpler transport and storage: Easier for the bookseller to make money.

I think this thing has zero market. At some time we all will be carrying around a PDA stype devices that can match most of the advantages of a book, and then we will be buying ebooks, But not before that. And there will allways be a market for trade-paperbacks and hardcovers. It is not only about getting a sequence of letters to the customer.

Re:Not ready yet...

[maxwell demon]

In fact I think a dedicated book-reader will never have any significant market share. What it needs is that everybody carries a PDA araund, that can also serve as a book reader. Until then, a genuine paperback has huge advantages:

- Cost: Cheap. If it gets wet or you losse it, no issue.

That entirely depends on the book.

- Reliable: Works. And everybody understands what it can and cannot do.

Are you really sure everyone understands all of that?

- Resilient: Works when damaged. Pretty hard to destroy to non-functionality unintentionally.

Well, unintentionally drop some glue on it, and see how well it works afterwards ...

- Compatible: Works with eyeball mark one and light mark one. No vendor lock-in here.

Ever seen a Chinese book? Or a Japanese one? While the codes are well documented, it takes years to learn to break them, and even then the decoding is usually not perfect.

- Easy to use: Flip a page.

You never accidentally flipped several pages at once? Indeed, occasionally flipping pages can be quite difficult.

- Versatile: Can also double as fire-starter, toilet-paper, doorstop, ...

Except for the doorstop use (which you can also do with ebooks), those uses all destroy the book.

- Durable: If stored carefully, will still work after decades

I'm sure if you carefully store away your ebook, it will still work in decades as well. Of course you might not find new content for it, but then, books cannot be reloaded with new content at all. Oh, and there have been issues with acid in the paper, where books started to dissolve after about 100 years ...

- Non-surprising behaviour: No virusses, disk-crashes, empty batteries, ...

Sneeze on a book once, and you'll have plenty of viruses on it.

The only advantage I see in a dedicated ebook is the following:

- Simpler transport and storage: Easier for the bookseller to make money.

You forgot: Opportunity for electronics companies and especially e-paper producers to make money.

And finally I shouldn't forget to add a big SCNR :-)

Re:Not ready yet...

[evilviper]

What it needs is that everybody carries a PDA araund, that can also serve as a book reader.

Everyone is going to carry around a PDA with a gigantic screen? Not likely. Screens are getting smaller, not larger, with the mass switch from PDAs to cell phones.

Cost: A simple e-book reader could easily cost as little as two paperback books... B&W LCD screen, minimal Flash, incredibly slow CPU, a couple buttons, battery compartment. The books themselves can approach $0 easily.

Resilient: Pages do not get ripped, binding glue does not deteriorate. etc. Survives food and drinks being spilled on it, and except in extreme cases, maintains perfect operation and visual quality. Sure, a soda stained paperback may be possibly comprehensible, but really I don't know anyone who would keep it.

Compatible: Digital doesn't require DRM.

Versatile: Can also double as an LCD monitor or terminal (with addition of a keyboard) etc.

Durable: Who needs durability when you have trivially easy digital reproduction, and incredibly inexpensive display devices? Besides, today's books aren't Guttenburg bibles, even stored properly, that paperback is going to die in short order, nor do the contents likely warrant it.

Re:Not ready yet...

[gweihir]

Well, you are missing the point numerous times, but I am not surprised by the reponse. And indeed the eBook has one more advantage:

- Technical solution: There will be plenty of people that think because it is electronic and new, it must be better. So it may not sell that badly.

PLeas, by all means get one. Just do not ecpect me to get one. I do understand computer technology....

Re:Not ready yet...

[gweihir]

Everyone is going to carry around a PDA with a gigantic screen? Not likely. Screens are getting smaller, not larger, with the mass switch from PDAs to cell phones.

Be a bit creative. I am not talking 2 years into the future here. Folding and roll-up screens, projected screens, etc..

Cost: A simple e-book reader could easily cost as little as two paperback books... B&W LCD screen, minimal Flash, incredibly slow CPU, a couple buttons, battery compartment. The books themselves can approach $0 easily.

That is pretty naive. Unless you are talking >50 years in the future here? Durable rechargeable batteries are not cheap and there has been intense research into improving them in thelast decades. They allone may be more expensive than the two paperbacks. The books may well be much more expensive than paperbacks as well. Don't forget that a paperback costs allmost nothing to make.

Resilient: Pages do not get ripped, binding glue does not deteriorate. etc. Survives food and drinks being spilled on it, and except in extreme cases, maintains perfect operation and visual quality. Sure, a soda stained paperback may be possibly comprehensible, but really I don't know anyone who would keep it.

Look up the term "resilient" some time: It means it still works when damaged. Nothing about "perfect" in there. I bet an eBook immersed in water cannot be read anymore at all....

Compatible: Digital doesn't require DRM.

And look up "compatible" as well. Nothing to do with DRM, athough DRM can affect compatibility.

Versatile: Can also double as an LCD monitor or terminal (with addition of a keyboard) etc.

So you mean the CPU is not so slow after all, the LCD is really a fast one, the Flash is larger? I think I made that point quite in the beginning of my orgininal posting....

Durable: Who needs durability when you have trivially easy digital reproduction, and incredibly inexpensive display devices? Besides, today's books aren't Guttenburg bibles, even stored properly, that paperback is going to die in short order, nor do the contents likely warrant it.


Reasonably produced paperbacks keep >100 years. I am not takling about the trash produced in the US. I am constantly amazed at its abysmal paper quality. Still, these do keep 20-30 years in normal conditions. Some people also like to re-read things, and your durability involves also: Ability to copy and store backups. Availability of a reader that can display it. Both huge question marks.

I think you are just in love with technology. It has disadvantages too, you know. More often than not a traditional, optimized over centuries, solution is significantly better. Also, long-term storage of data so that it can still be used is currently an unsolved research question. One thing currently done is to print everything to TIFF, in the hopes of being able to OCR it when needed later. Unless that eBook is plain ASCII or conforming (!) PostScript, it will have the same problem.

Re:Not ready yet...

[evilviper]

Durable rechargeable batteries are not cheap and there has been intense research into improving them in thelast decades. They allone may be more expensive than the two paperbacks.

B&W LCDs and slow embedded CPUs draw a trickle of power... My old Psion 5MX PDA ran for A MONTH on 2 AA batteries. Use newer CPUs, perhaps even slower, and you can stretch that out even longer. In other words: batteries not included.

Look up the term "resilient" some time: It means it still works when damaged.

Go buy yourself a dictionary.

Resilient: The ability to recover quickly

Books do not recover. Many everyday things will damage them permanently.

So you mean the CPU is not so slow after all, the LCD is really a fast one, the Flash is larger?

No idea where you're pulling this nonsense from.

technology. It has disadvantages too, you know.

Perhaps it does, but you haven't named one of them yet.

Re:Not ready yet...

[ccp]

The books may well be much more expensive than paperbacks as well.

The books, maybe.

On the other side, the bookz...

Cheers,
CC

Device Price ? Compatibility?

[nurb432]

It didnt mention how much the device was, if its $500 bucks then its silly even if books are 8 dollars or less.

Can i backup my books locally on my PC forever, or are we going to have another fiasco where down the road amazon pulls the plug and i lose access to all the content i bought?

Can i load my own books in PDF format onto this thing ?

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

An ebook reader should have a high contrast, high DPI display that is easy to read in sunlight, with a long battery life. This can be provided with e-ink technology, which the PSP and DS being designed to play games (not read books) don't use. That is why you'd want to buy a separate e-book reader, but if you are comfortable using your PSP or DS for this, then use them, but they wouldn't suit me. That said, I think $400 is too expensive.

I think the screen quality and eye strain are the most salient reasons to ever buy a book reader, however I'm not convinced extremely high resolution color LCD screens can't mimic that well enough to "get by"--at least for books you read at shorter intervals, say reference books, but definitely not novels.

Also, since a lot of books I read are references, it sucks if the images are down sampled to B&W, low res, or stripped from the book entirely. I'm not a fan of e-readers so I'm not sure how well they deal with images.

size, price and the Hanlin v9

[BlackCreek]

I would really rather have an EBook reader, say as opposed to read pdf or txt files in a computer. The thing that would make me buy it would be: - decent screen that doesn't kills my eyes (after already spending the whole day programming); - battery life measured in thousands of pages; - a form format that is suitable for reading. - easy to get it to work with Linux The form format of the screen is a bit of a problem with something like the XO. The screen brightness could also give me trouble. [...] About screen size, the only ereader with something more than 6" is this iRex illiad. But it costs around $700 :-( And it has DRM all over :-(( I am, however, eagerly waiting for the Hanlin v9, which will have 10", and can be easily used from Linux. But there is no info on the pricing yet. [..] BTW, this is a good summary of the EReader market http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_Reader_Matrix Cheers

Interesting Name

[kidcharles]

Kindle? As in kindling? As in a bonfire? Books and bonfires?

The only logical conclusion is that Amazon is a front for Neo-Nazis.

(kidcharles - Godwining threads with a single post since the dawn of the intertubes!)

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

An ebook reader should have a high contrast, high DPI display that is easy to read in sunlight

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention. I have a really hard time reading paper books under direct sunlight, so finding a shady spot to read an e-book on an e-book reader would in no way change my outdoor reading habits. The white pages reflect the light so much it hurts my eyes so I have to find a seat under the shade.

I also don't want skin cancer.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[roguetrick]

You want a tablet, not the readers. Refresh rate would be too slow for real note taking.

Link to Under-Construction Kindle Store at Amazon

[theodp]

Under-Construction Kindle Store: No pics yet, but tabs for Buy a Kindle, Kindle Books, Kindle Newspapers, Kindle Blogs, Kindle Magazines, Manage Your Kindle, and Kindle Support.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[juhaz]

Agreed, the internet tablets are THE devices for e-book reading at the moment.

Amazing screen, open, FBreader has amazing format support, pretty good user interface (I like zoom buttons for page browsing, in addition to the thumb press). And while they might not get quite 30 hours of battery life, if you're just reading without using wifi/bt or anything cpu intensive, my 770 gets at least twelve hours. While the paper-like screen could, in theory, be better for your eyes, much of the eye-relief of paper comes from huge resolution, and e-ink just doesn't have that yet - the Tablets actually have quite a bit better resolution (~225DPI) than the amazon gadget (167 DPI), so it just might be that they're actually better to read on, to boot.

And of course, as you say, while they're good book readers, they can do a whole lot more for almost half the price (n800 is going for just over 200 now that n810 is out).

late to the discussion

[grumling]

A few points:

The largest variety of books sold these days is in the SciFi section. Jerry Pournelle recently said on TWiT that he was told that the way to push books is to put a hot chick on the cover (paraphrasing). Black and White text is not worth much if you want to hawk new titles over EVDO to the thing (ordering from a PC is different).

I read the article on my cell phone before firing up the PC this morning. Not bad, but a little hard on the eyes for several pages. Holographic displays may help down the road, but still too far off to bet a business model on.

Finally, this has been one of the nicest discussions I've read in a long time. Very civil, complete sentences, and correct use of "there." Slashdot (and the overall websphere) would do well to use this as an example of proper communications.

DRM + ebooks = failure

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

Will amazon offer me e-books in an unrestricted and un-DRM'ed form? no........... well i'll pass then thanks.

An Alternative to Amazon

[peterjt]

There actually is another new e-ink based reader out as well; the Booken - Cybook http://www.bookeen.com/

It supports books in Mobipocket format along with PalmDoc, HTML, Txt and PDF (with restrictions on a few of these formats).

Also supports playing of MP3's

Price is $350 or $450 depending on the bundle.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[safXmal]

It's ugly. In my opinion the e-book from amazon needs to have a touch screen iso a keyboard. If you want to turn a page flick your finger along a corner. As with the iphone the touch screen will give you a more physical feeling of holding a book.
The second thing that it need is an alternative (pirated) supply of books. Just like the ipod succeeded because you could put your own CD's, or downloaded songs on it the e-book will also only succeed when you can put any text you want on it for free.
The average ipod owner has only 5 songs on his iPod that are bought through iTunes.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[Chelloveck]

One last unrelated thing: I see everyone talking about DRM'd ebooks. I have never bought a DRM'd ebook in my life and never will. I buy my books from baen.com (ALL completely DRM free and in several formats) which has -years- of good books that I don't have yet, and they release more each month than I can read in a month.

Amen to Baen! Darned near all of their catalog is available electronically (certainly everything printed in the past decade), they have a huge library of free books, and everything is available in plain ol' HTML as well as other forms (Rocketreader, Palm Mobipocket, Microsoft Reader, and RTF). Individual books are priced about the same as a paperback, cheaper if you buy the bundle-of-the-month.

They also publish a monthly SF magazine in a purely electronic format, if that sort of thing floats your boat.

Baen has a serious corporate allergy to DRM. Jim Baen hated it, and his successors hate it. This is what commercial electronic media should be. (I'm talking to you, RIAA!)

Use a PSP and print to PDF!

[bball99]

- i use a hacked PSP with the BookR PSP PDF reader... you can format any copied text, ebook, Gutenberg public domain text into PDF... i use a page width of 4 inches and page length of 20 inches (to avoid overuse of the next/previous buttons)...

- alternatively, i mount the Gutenberg DVD and serve it up via Apache - voila: a wifi library of 40,000 texts that i can read using the PSP's browser from anywhere at the casa!

- new PSPs are US$170 - much cheaper than any dedicated ebook reader...

Re:Use a PSP and print to PDF!

[phaggood]

> PSP ebook reader

Post a howto I like'd a multi-function $200 PSP way better than a $400 single purpose DRM'd device.

Re:Use a PSP and print to PDF!

[bball99]

using the g00g (see first hit):

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=PSP+JPEG+PDF+RSS&btnG=Search

working w/a linux-based system and the PSP:

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_PSP

however, if you install an 'open' firmware on your PSP and use Bookr:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/bookr/

you'll find that you can fit many more books on your memory stick (and the Bookr app is superb)... the method of installing an open firmware on the PSP depends on what PSP and Sony firmware you have... the process basically involves:

1. collecting the firmware files
2. copying files to your PSP's memory stick
3. running an executable to 'downgrade' your PSP's firmware
4. then reflashing your PSP w/a 'hacked' PSP firmware that allows third-party executables, such as Bookr

XO

[zogger]

400 clams gets you into the now running OLPC buy one, some kid gets one deal, and they are "ebooks" as part of the function.

The price is still too high

[jollyreaper]

We're talking about completely removing the physical chain of distribution and all of the massive costs associated with it and they're only dropping the price to $9.99? Greedy bastards. And do they DRM this shit, too? From what I've seen lately, DRM means that there's no way for you to own the product in perpetuity like with a physical book. You lose the device it's locked to, fuck you, buy it again. Look at the recent MLB thing where they shut down the authentication server that allowed the DRM content to play. Look at Nintendo not allowing you to transfer virtual console games from one box to another.

Baen Books _are_ DRM free

[newandyh-r]

http://www.baen.com/ sell reasonably priced ebooks and have some free (as in beer) ones. Good start for an SF library, we just need a few more publishers* to follow that example.

... and, of course, for this new device to be able to accept them.

* a good start would be one that does detective stories - that itself might be sufficient to bootstrap ebooks to a larger audience.

Re:Baen Books _are_ DRM free

[Dillenger69]

I came in to say the same thing.
I wasn't even close to interested in eBooks until Baen got me hooked with the free (and DRM free) files.
The non free files are reasonably priced and DRM free as well.
Baen is the standard bearer for what eBook offerings should be.

What about underlining for academic purposes?

[shaneFalco]

The whole idea of e-books makes me a little hesitant. I'm an academic and I underline like none other in my books (at least the academic ones). So if an e-book reader had a stylus or something I could "write" with I might be receptive to the idea. Would also help if the academic publishers (Oxford, Harvard, Illonois, CQ etc.) were to jump on board. Does anyone know of either occuring?

Re:What about underlining for academic purposes?

[bbc]

The writable E Ink-based e-book device already exists in the form of the Irex Iliad.

Re:Printing on Demand

[larry bagina]

You think the editors now are bad? Imagine if Taco, Zonk, and Kevin Dawson were editing books....

if this is really it, its dead

[Budenny]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader/

if this is really it, its dead before it gets out of bed.

However the Hanlin V9 with a bigger screen, better looks and a more reasonable price could be what lets the market take off. The Sony is close. It just needs to be a bit bigger screen and a bit less expensive (and drop all the non-book functions), and it could be a real goer. But this thing...!

Why ebook readers will always suck

[SilverJets]

Format. This is the one thing that will always ruin ebook readers. Every company doing ebooks has their own ideas about the file format and the ebooks you buy today will probably be unreadable in the near future. This is why books have survived for as long as they have...printed words on a page are pretty much the same now as they were 150 years ago. Do you honestly think that in 150 years you will be able to open a Microsoft Reader ebook or a Sony ebook or a Palm ebook, or a Kinder ebook? I don't. But I do know that I can pick up a book that was published 150 years ago and still be able to open it, turn the pages, look at the pictures, and if it is written in English be able to read it.

I'll buy an ebook reader when either one format comes out the winner and all other formats are tossed to the wind or someone develops an ebook reader that can read all existing ebook formats with expandability for future formats. In other words I doubt I will ever buy an ebook reader.

Non-starter

[frisket]

It's not the device which is important: it's the file format. As long as these devices use restricted formats, they're dead in the water.

Re:yet another junk

[grumbel]

### For $399, I can buy Asus EEE, which is great as an ebook reader plus does a lot of other things.

The EEE can't be hold like a book and I don't think its display is readable in sunlight either, which makes it a poor general book replacement. That said, I think the OLPC XO-1 makes a fantastic eBook reader, its very cheap, has a sunlight readable display with a huge black&white resolution, can be folded to a flat tablet mode and is a completly open platform. The only two problems that the XO-1 has is lack of easy availability and lack of touchscreen.

Content pricing/practices are the issue

[pcause]

I started using books on my PDA in 2001. The problem for ebook success isn't the devices, but the way content is priced and the restrictions. I found that the price for a hard cover and a ebook were the same. This is ridiculous! A hard cover has to be printed, shipped, stored, stocked, returns need to be handled, there is inventory risk, etc. I know that a ebook is cheaper, likely by several dollars than a hardcover, yet they price them the same. I don't do ebooks because I resent being ripped off.

Add to the the same lousy implementation of DRM that we see in music, and an ebook is a really bad buy. I can't share with my wife, give to my sister, have the kids read the book.

New devices won't make ebooks popular. Rationale pricing and usable DRM (or no DRM) are the keys.

Buy or lease?

[spagetti_code]

Well, I did RTFA, and you are sort of right, but it doesn't even have to be an issue with DRM - the format is just as important. The key to providing a winning formula for consumers is:

a) don't DRM the data. People remember what MS did to all their loyal customers with the Zune (all their legally purchased "PlaysForSure" music from Napster, Yahoo Music, AOL Music Now, MusicMatch, or even Microsoft's MSN Music or MTV-partnered Urge became obsolete and unusable in the Zune, and therefore completely unusable at some point in the future).
b) use an *existing* standard format, OR if you need new features, create an *OPEN* format. People want to own books, not just rent it until Amazon decides it doesn't want to keep building the readers.

What publishers of music *and* books need to remember is that people want to keep their music and books, and be able to enjoy them in the future. I have books and music dating back to the 80's and I still enjoy them today. And I want to keep enjoying them into the future.

With music, Apple won by:
a) creating a very permissive DRM that protected rights but let the customers do what they wanted (shift to different devices)
b) supporting ownership of music users already owned - that is when music was ripped from a purchased CD, it went into non-DRM formats (c.f. early MS rippers that DRMd your music).
c) supporting most playable formats, especially MP3.

End of Literacy

[paleo2002]

I hardly use a regular telephone. I can't tell time on an analogue clock. And I haven't listened to the CD version of an album in a long time. But you'll never convince me to stop using real books!

I don't just like books, I revere them - and not just novels, but textbooks too. I once bought a used textbook that the previous owner had cut pictures out of and it made me angry. I've never even written in or highlighted books. I'll certainly resell them once I'm done, but I can't throw them away. That's why I've got a box of books in my room that are listed for $0.75 each on Half.com right now.

A book is knowledge and information in a tangible, lasting form. When a civilization fails, its books (tablets, scrolls, etc.) often survive. Can the same be said for the DRM encrypted, Sony proprietary formatted, digital version of James Patterson's "Murder in a Middle-Class Resort Town"?

I can sit and read a printed book for hours. Have you ever had to sit and read a computer screen for hours? Its tiring and bad for your eyes. Now imagine reading Crime and Punishment on a DS screen, an iPod, or a cell phone. Books a simple, intuitive to use, and can easily be shared. You don't have to worry about file formats, DRM, or hardware. The only compatibility issue with a book is whether or not its written in a language you can read.

What's worse is that, once most books are available in digital format only is the sad but inevitable next step: "Why should I have go to the trouble of reading my ebook when the machine could read it to me?" We're already half-way there with books on tape. Yes, audio recordings of books are wonderful for people who are blind or have other issues that limit their physical ability to read. The digital age is already eroding people's ability to write without a keyboard and grammar/spell check. What happens when people depend on a machine to read for them too?

Sure, it would be nice to have a search function on my 5 inch thick Invertebrate Zoology reference text. But, I'd rather have the satisfaction and prestige of that book sitting on my bookshelf and the knowledge that I can pick it up and look through it without paying a subscription fee.

Re:End of Literacy

[Meniconi,Nando]

Proprietary wireless network, closed platform, proprietary file format? No thanks.

Affordable?

[Orange Crush]

I know affordable is a relative term, but $400 is no cheaper than other ebook readers. I'd consider buying a nice eink ebook reader once they come down in price more towards the $100 range but $400 just isn't worth it to me.

DJVU anyone ?

[Romwell]

I bet this thing won't suppport DJVU, the best format for eBooks tha weren't natively typest into PDF.

As an aside note, I'm 20, and I have a bunch of books and a bunch of eBooks, and I think that each kind is better for its purpose. For instance, software documentation requires fast lookups, and I'm using it while doing things on a computer anyway, so it better be in electronic format. On the other hand, 'real' books IMHO are more comfortable to read, never require batteries, and so far DPI resolution of print is biggern than the one of the screen.

I think it's a stupid thing to say that one format is better than other, especially when you can have both and convert freely. I frequently print out sections of scanned books, so that I don't have to carry the whole book, but have the comfort of paper (thus going the full circle: print-scan-print). I hope that in the future every book will come with a CD containing it; and you already can print out your ebooks for not-that-much (Kinkos/laser printer/inket with 3rd party $2 cartridges). So let's stop the zealotry war, and start celebrating the spread of both formats =)

Re:DJVU anyone ?

[Romwell]

ahh, the joy of HTML tags! I really thought it was the 'Preview' button that I clicked =)

Surely

[goldcd]

they should just hand Kindles out to people on planes.
Something new and fun to play with. Get to use it for a few hours to see if you like it - and offering a plane trip with an onboard library of a few hundred thousand books deinitely ranks above half a dozen crappy blockbusters.
More importantly, you can seed the market by letting travellers pay to walk off the plane with their new Kindle and their half-read book.
(Jeff, you owe me if you run with this)

Re:Surely

[ucblockhead]

Don't laugh. On at least one ANA flight, they handed out Sony eReaders to everyone in first class.

Nobody has done it yet. . .

[Fantastic Lad]

A durable, basic word processor with a nice big screen, long battery life and no silly features, such as WiFi.

I know that Amazon did not design this to be a word processor, but they did put a keyboard on it (albeit, an awkward-looking one), and it has a USB port, and a nice big screen which you can read in daylight. . . With all that in place, the only thing needed is a bit of code and the job would be finished. But still. . . It just hasn't been done!

The Asus EEE is sort of close, but still no cigar. The battery life is too short, the screen is a flashy all-color thing, and there are far too many features for somebody who just wants a durable portable word processor.

I think chasing this wish-list item of mine is like experiencing a dream. --In dreams, when you are faced with a problem, (at least in my dreams), I struggle to solve it and right when all the pieces are just about to fall in place, when the light bulb is just about to go on, that's when I wake up.

Which leads me to wonder if when somebody finally makes a decent portable word processor, the world will come to an end.

Maybe it's a good thing that nobody has built one yet.

-FL

Re:Ebook Copyrights-Paper DRM.

[Danathar]

Yes, my library "loans" out ebooks as well....which is why I said "generally", because the selection of ebooks at libraries are usually limited to the gutenberg library stuff and reference material. Try looking for many modern popular authors. At least at my library system they aren't there.

Also notice that ebooks are not significantly cheaper than the physical items. That torques me as well.

And as for the license/copyright restrictions. I try (though not always succeed) not to give up my freedom to do things with what I've bought just for the convenience of having it in a digital format immediately.

Re:Too cheap.

[crayz]

Well I certainly see why no one takes this forum seriously. No, servers, personnel, or bandwidth don't go to zero or anywhere near zero.

Amazon will happily sell you a 10MB high-quality audio track for $0.89. That's likely about 1/100th the price-per-megabyte that they're charging with this bookstore. A $0.10 book would be pretty damn close to zero

I did read the article

[YetAnotherBob]

Answers to your questions

1. Price? $399.00 (US)
2. Backup books No, DRM will prevent transfer of books
3. Yes, fiasco down the road.

Things you forgot to ask about.
A) connectivity? only through a cell phone network you have to pay separatly for.
B) control? Remote, with Amazon or their assignees able to modify the memory of your reader remotely.
C) Book Cost? 9.99, higher than a paperback. They plan to sell you 'classics' for about $2.00 each. A classic is anything you can get from Project Gutenberg for free. This could be a problem for them, but they arranged it so that the connectivity ONLY goes through Amazon.
D) Image Quality? a 6 inch screen, 4 level gray scale. Expect a flash whenever the screen changes. Also expect it to take about 2 seconds to flip a page. That is typical of E ink displays.
E) Give/Loan/Borrow a book? forget it. See 2 above.

I hope this helps you decide if the system is right for you. It isn't right for me. I do read books on my laptop, and have read dozens on a PDA. The age of the e-book is here now. We already know the format that will win out in the end. It is called HTML. No mention if this reader can view either HTML or ASCII text. That probably means no.

A better reader for the price seems to be the Nokia 800 series Internet Tablet. The 810 also includes a GPS, so you can tell where you are too. I'm thinking the 700 series (now less than $200.00) may be a better choice for me. Just my opinion on this last paragraph.

Re:I did read the article

[nurb432]

Tks for finding the #'s for me ( might have been in later pages of the article, but it bombed out on me on page 1 )

To your comments:

1 - Way too expensive
2 - Deal killer which will cause a #3 fiasco

Ill stick with using my newton a while longer it seems. Modern PDA's while nice, are just too small to read a book comfortably. And most laptops, well just too big for just reading books..

Who picked that name??

[LrdDimwit]

They named it "kindle", meaning "to catch fire"? This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I mean, you don't see an airline calling themselves Hindenburg Airlines, do you? Seems to me like Amazon just loudly asked what could possibly go wrong.

Maybe not the Amazon one, but...

[porpnorber]

I'm really sorry. This is going to sound like an ad.

I'm carrying an iRex iLiad. Everywhere. It's very slightly more than an ebook reader, because it has a Wacom stylus and you can write on it; then again, it is significantly more expensive because of this. But here's the thing:

It is much nicer than a physical book.

I was absolutely amazed.

Here's why:

First, it has more usable display area than a book. Why? Because although a quarter of the face is case surround, there is no facing page. This makes a huge difference when reading on the bus, or walking down the street, or while drinking a cup of coffee.

Second, it may not be lighter than one book, but it is certainly lighter than three. So now, in a single device I can hang from my belt when I don't mind looking like a dork but want my hands free (which is usually, I'm afraid), I can have a light novel, a heavy novel, something of historical interest, a programming language manual, the reference materials for whatever I'm working on, three technical journals, my entire archive of research papers, my handwritten notes from my chinese class, my meeting notes, my doodles, and my RSS feeds. This is a win, even if I'm now mostly reading classics while I wait for the publishing industry to get its head out and start charging only the software costs for new releases.

Third, and this still weirds me out, in one important way, epaper outperforms contemporary physical paper. It is greyer. "WTF?" I hear you say, "don't you want maximum contrast?" But the answer appears to be that modern paper is made slightly fluorescent; certainly it is immensely white. In direct sunlight, it can be painful, and is certainly hard to read. The iLiad display is disappointing in situations where your mum would have yelled "turn on the light! You'll ruin your eyes!" but in good light it is great and outdoors it is much better than great.

Don't you see? I can now be a functional researcher in the park. With a coffee in one hand. And my book bag increased in capacity by several orders of magnitude and reduced in weight to less than a pound. (Well, except that I live in Canada and its is f***ing winter now and will be for six more months....)

I really hate to sound like a fanboi, but for me, a piece of the long-promised future recently arrived by DHL, let me tell you.

Re:Maybe not the Amazon one, but...

[gweihir]

Two questions:

1) Can yiu get all the books you want?
2) What about long-term usability of the book format and long therm availability of this or a compatible reader?

And a comment: The problem with the paper is indeed that UV is converted to visible light. But it debends on the area you are in and on your eyes. I do not have that issue at all, except in places were I should move out of the sun anyways.

Re:Maybe not the Amazon one, but...

[porpnorber]

1) Can yiu get all the books you want?
2) What about long-term usability of the book format and long therm availability of this or a compatible reader?

These are really quesitons about the PDF format.

As to (1), well, no, but I can't do that in print, either. Basically I'm limited to things I could print on my printer, with PDFs being the simplest. That does include a large number of texts and reference materials in maths and computer science, and all the journals I read regularly. It doesn't include a large number of the books on my shelves, but many of them are out of print, so if I were looking for them anew, electronic copies would probably be likely to surface sooner than physical ones.

For long-term accessibility, (2), I see no reason to suppose that PDFs will 'die' in the sense of becoming uninterpretable; they can be rendered to any raster (digital or physical), and in the process become as durable as any data, including printed data.

The archival problem for data is basically the converse of that of the conservation of physical objects. Physical objects, by and large, are better left untouched; use degrades them. Data objects are best visited periodically, both to activate error correction mechanisms, and to ensure that it is discovered in time that data formats are beginning to be seen as 'obscure' and that recoding is in order. (Though, of course, ideally, the entire web infrastructure would be accessed by rigid, content-derived identifiers, and forward compatibility would be addressed systematically by emulators, so losing the decoder would become very unlikely indeed.)

Remember :CueCat?

[tepples]

Sell the reader for $9.99 and make up the cost on the media Then you lose money to people who buy the reader for $15.89 incl. shipping and get their media from Gutenberg or Usenet. Anyone remember the :CueCat debacle?

Re:Remember :CueCat?

[Usquebaugh]

Remember it,

I still use mine, great piece of kit :-)

Re:I like the idea, but the beatings?

[bbc]

I like the idea of ebooks on physical "epaper". I like the idea of not having to pay ten to fifty dollars for a fucking paperback book, because I'll now be able to buy it in digital form, without the expense of manufacturing and distributing.

What makes you think the majority cost of publishing is in distribution and printing?

Indeed, it is well documented that 50% of the cost of publishing is in distribution and printing.

And if you damage the digital copy, do you believe your entitled to perpetual replacements?

Of course he is. You buy the book, remember? That is the language employed by resellers. Contract law doesn't somehow become moot just because you're dealing with the copyright mafia.

I know that the behavior of my fellow men will make all of that difficult. Just like the same means that I can never have an unlocked outer door. Maybe I should blame the lock industry?

Wrong analogy. The lock on my house is to keep my fellow men away from my property. The lock on my e-book is to keep me away from my e-book.

Re:Will it include all the "books" I already own..

[Hognoxious]

I suspect he's hoping I'll pay all over again for an 'e' version of them.

But not just any old e version. It would have extra chapters and come with a bonus pamphlet titled "The writing of ..."

Yes They Have

[YetAnotherBob]

Wang built a dedicated word processor in the 70's. Radio shack did it again in the 80's. Both devices died when PC's became generally available. The word processor is just a word processor, the PC can be a word processor and much much more.

I don't expect different results here.

Re:Yes They Have

[Fantastic Lad]

Wang built a dedicated word processor in the 70's. Radio shack did it again in the 80's. Both devices died when PC's became generally available. The word processor is just a word processor, the PC can be a word processor and much much more.

Yeah, and Alphasmart is doing it today. Sort of. While I can't speak for the Wang, having never seen one, I do know that while the Alphasmarts and the Radio Shack model 100 are and were very popular with writers and journalists, they both suffered from teenie-tiny screens.

--For me this is a problem, but I met one guy who still swore by his Model 100, and he had many bad things to say about lap tops. --Basically, that they were not rugged enough, took too long to boot up, and had cruddy battery lives. One feature he liked about the Model 100 was that it took regular batteries which you could purchase virtually anywhere on the planet. Needing to lug around a re-charger and having to use it every couple of hours renders a laptop virtually useless in the field, and having dealt with the same issues, I have to agree.

PC's are certainly useful, but if you ask anybody who writes professionally, a lap top is limiting exactly because of its being much much more. --Of course, if you could make a small laptop with a 30 hour battery life, then I'd probably settle down. (Rugged is a good idea in general, but I'm not the type to be journeying across the Australian outback while trying to hack out an article, so I can live with a more dainty flip-screen device.)

Somebody, someday will make what I'm after. I just hope the world doesn't end when that happens.

-FL

Formula for Successful E-book

[RonBurk]

When will they learn? Greed guarantees failure for yet another e-book reader entry. Only $400? Wow, I can buy a laptop and donate another for that price. Let's go over what you need to succeed One More Time:

• Price: $400 is a non-starter. Shoot for $200 for the opening price, with price reductions to follow.
• Hardware Openness: Hardware companies don't know how to make software. Open the hardware up from the beginning. Give out free SDKs. Let skins and mods proliferate. This sucks in the geeky early adopter, who will then start selling his geeky peers on the device.
• Decrease Information Friction: Don't eyeball every source of information as a profit stream -- instead, focus on how damned easy you can make it for people to get information onto your hardware (think of why YouTube succeeded and Google Video had to fold).
• Profits from Platform: Of course, you have to make money or you won't bother to make the device. Focus on being the platform that all e-book readers are based on. Think long-term. Think profits from volume. Think of being the AdWords/AdSense of e-books (you can pay and get X content ad-free, or not pay and get it with ads).

Amazon Kindle PHOTO

[AlexanderT]

If you still don't believe that the leaked FCC photos depict the final product (some say it's hideous), check out next week's cover of the Newsweek: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7336&d=1195413957

Re:Amazon Kindle PHOTO

[AlexanderT]

Here's another closeup: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7343&d=1195464957

Re:Amazon Kindle PHOTO

[TekJannsen]

I'm waiting for the dot-matrix printer attachment.

Four freakin' hundred dollars?

[IronChef]

Ebooks will not become practical for most people until the reader costs little enough that you won't cry if you forget it on the bus.

At $400, you are trying to train people to carry around something more valuable than their cell phone. Unless this thing is supposed to stay home, out of harm's way. Which would be lame. $400? You can buy a portable DVD player for half that. Less than half, even! I understand about economy of scale and all that. But this is the kind of comparison Joe Blow is going to make.

I am already an ebook guy. I use uBook on my Pocket PC. (Great software, btw: http://www.gowerpoint.com/. Fan, used it forever.) Sure, the screen is smaller, but at 640x480 it's plenty sharp. OK, the battery doesn't last as long, but it makes up for that by being a PDA/web browser/media player too.

For $400, you may as well buy yourself a nice new PDA phone and buy a copy of uBook for it. Or get one of those new $400 mini laptops. There must be some free reader software for linux? Or move a Windows license to it, and use the desktop version of my preferred app.

But that's still only a solution for techies. Give the world a $100 reader, with no wireless BS.

This doesn't even address the media cost issue, but other posts have nailed that.

Re:Four freakin' hundred dollars?

[OrangeTide]

The issue is that you're paying the premium for having an eInk display and very long battery life. There is no cheaper alternative way to read books that does not sacrifice BOTH of those features.

I could see someone making a sub-$200 reader, possible sub-$100, with a reflective LCD (no backlight), but it would be hard to read in low light. If you put a backlight one in there it would be hard to read in sunlight (I can't read my Treo's display at all in sunlight). Even though reading quality of LCD is lower and power consumption is higher, it has a lot of advantages over eInk (like being 100x faster to update)

I think it would be a mistake to make a reader without having some form of wireless. Having to tether it to a PC one or two times a day makes it far less practical.

Re:Four freakin' hundred dollars?

[IronChef]

I realize the e-ink thing is new hotness and therefore expensive. And having seen one of the Sony readers, it IS pretty cool. Reality aside... It's still too expensive for what it is.

I think it would be a mistake to make a reader without having some form of wireless. Having to tether it to a PC one or two times a day makes it far less practical.

My GOD man, how fast do you read? I put a dozen books on my PDA at a time and that lasts me a good while. Though if you were getting daily content, sure, ease of sync is great.

Re:Four freakin' hundred dollars?

[Bohnanza]

Regardless, unless the price is significantly lower (and I agree that $100 sounds about right), this sort of device is doomed to failure. IIRC $400 is the same price as the Sony reader, which was a flop for no other reason.

I kinda like the idea of the reader, especially with the possibility of having a dictionary, boardgame rulebooks, and other reference material on-hand and searchable. But I'm a cheapskate and I get all my books at the local thriftshop for $0.25 each.

Re:Four freakin' hundred dollars?

[OrangeTide]

It's all about daily and hourly content. You could easily get WSJ, NYT, Slashdot, and your favorite comics on these sorts of wireless eInk devices. And you wouldn't want to have to update it in the morning while you're rushing out the door for work. Being able to see stock updates might not be a bad thing either.

I think eInk is expensive because there is only one company that does the technology. (E Ink Corporation)

Device is 399 dollars?!?!?!

[jsimon12]

WTF? 400 bucks buys a lot of paperbacks and if I lose a paperback I am out less then 10 bucks and I can just buy another. Not to mention a paperback doesn't break when I drop it, can go pretty much anywhere, doesn't need to be turned off on takeoff and doesn't need to be plugged in. You can buy a cheap laptop for 400 bucks, so why would I buy this?

Also why would I want to pay the same price for a electronic copy of a book? They should be cheaper then their paper counterpart.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the E-ink ads appearing in grocery stores across America.

Heard all this before...it's STILL a pipe dream

[Garwulf]

I have to say, this was a sort of entertaining thing to read, in part because I've heard all of this before. My first book contract was to write Diablo: Demonsbane in 2000 for Pocket Books - it was even going to be the e-book that would inaugurate the entire Blizzard fiction line. I couldn't lose, right?

So, I write the book, get Chris Metzen drooling over it once he reads it, trying to find me a full-scale Diablo print book to write (which never happened, sadly), and the book is released in October 2000. It spends weeks on the PeanutPress bestseller list.

By the time it had been taken out of "print," it had sold around 500-900 copies. That's it. There are print books that have utterly tanked that sold more copies than that, and as far as e-books go, I was doing WELL.

The e-book revolution that was supposed to wipe out the bookstores and revolutionize the way we read turned out to be nothing more than a pipe dream. Now, the wild claims are being repeated, and it's still a pipe dream.

The reason for this is simple - when it comes down to it, for something to take off, it needs to have a level of utility. You need to be able to offer the customer lots of flexibility, and remove additional steps wherever possible. No matter what happens, when it comes to e-books, the first thing you are doing is adding a step, and a step that requires electricity. And then the internet.

The book I've got coming out in under a month was tested as an e-text with two classes of students at the university where I work. This is one of the top universities in Canada, too - plenty of laptops in class during the lectures. The most frequent complaint we got when the primary author and I asked for comments was that it wasn't a print book. Students like to be able to make notes in the margins, you see - they even said so on their comment sheets.

The simple fact is that the e-book is not going to dislocate the print book any time soon, if ever. The print book has no technological barriers to entry for the readers, while the e-book does. And no amount of idealistic speculation is going to change that.

cost breakdown?

[bukuman]

Does anyone have any real idea of the cost breakdown of supplyinng eBooks? Lets ignore the reader and associated development costs and worry just about providing the books in some formats. There would be some costs that were not 'per book', but it seems like they should not be huge.

I had read somewhere that the authors might get around $1.50 per book. It must cost at most $0.01 to distribute the the book itself. Where does the other $8.48 go? Is it 'pure profit'? licensing for DRM schemes / formats? ....

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[corsec67]

Don't forget that some of Baen's hardback books come with a CD full of DRM free books, and the CD says that you are allowed to make personal copies for friends...

Buy 1 physical book, get 20-30 more books on the CD in the back? That is a good reason to buy the hardback over the paperback.

Which Format Is Best For Reading On OLPC XO-1?

[davidpfarrell]

Firstly, thanks for turning me on to the Baen free e-books, very cool!

Secondly, I'd like know which of the many available formats of their books will be best for reading on the OLPC XO-1?

I purchased the XO-1 for many reasons, but one of the big ones is that I really hope it functions as a nice e-book reader.

I haven't done any e-book reading yet, and wonder if anyone knows what format(s) are best to use, both in general, and specifically for the XO-1?

I think I read that it comes with a PDF reader, so maybe thats my answer? But it seems like HTML and Rich Text would be nice formats to support, too?

Any advise I could be would be much appreciated.

Re:Which Format Is Best For Reading On OLPC XO-1?

[Aladrin]

While I don't know exactly what the OLPC will have, it is probably fairly easy to get FBReader working on it, which is what I use on the n800. For that, I've found the RTFs work very well. The HTML isn't quite as good as they split the book so each chapter is an html page, and fbreader doesn't always get it. Single-page HTML works great from other sources, though.

If you are just going to use a web browser to view it, the HTML version is probably the way to go.

Re:You know what else needs a zero refresh rate?

[glittalogik]

Sorry, that's a violation of Apple's Cover Flow patent. Please stop turning pages immediately.

If the shoe fits

[CustomDesigned]

You didn't mention which country you are from, but I had no trouble identifying it from your list of its sins. Interesting. I hope by "give up" you mean lowered expectations. As long as you live there, it is still your moral duty to vote - using write-ins if needed. And I mean real write-ins for a qualified candidate, not "Mickey Mouse". In the unlikely event that enough people do that, and we aren't still using E-voting machines controlled by a corporation run by ex-cons, there could still be some positive changes.

Re:If the shoe fits

[fyngyrz]

As long as you live there, it is still your moral duty to vote - using write-ins if needed.

I'm voting for Ron Paul. Because I actually believe he'll stop the war of aggression. I think he'll be absolutely powerless in the face of congress as currently constituted, however, I have this fantasy that he'll use "fireside chats" to explain to the citizens what the constitution is, why the government should be following it, and the citizens in turn will pressure their representatives. That's just before one, or both, of the political parties (or the powers behind them) has him assassinated, of course. Hopefully before he has any chance to try to dismantle social security or derail the trend towards considering the health of the citizens as something actually on the same level of concern as roads and education.

Normally, I would not vote, because voting implies you believe in and support the system, and I do not. The system has produced a dictatorship where the government simply consults itself for the granting of powers not actually given to it by the citizens, or to completely go around restrictions placed upon it by the citizens; further, it has used those powers against the citizens, and continues to do so. Participation in the current system will (generally speaking) perpetrate it. I think it would be best if it were replaced with some kind of constitutionally restricted meritocracy with a fast feedback mechanism to punish constitutional violations severely.

Democracy: Where any two uninformed citizens outvote a citizen who is an expert on the issue at hand.
Republic: Where all three votes are irrelevant, because only uninformed "representatives" can vote on issues.

Re:If the shoe fits

[CustomDesigned]

Republic: Where all three votes are irrelevant, because only uninformed "representatives" can vote on issues. The intent of a republic is that citizens vote for a representative that they know personally, not just from a campaign. In the US, there are no federal candidates that anyone knows personally - so federal elections are largely a joke (there need to be more reps or more levels to handle the population). Local elections, however, are a different matter. I get to go to parties and chat with local and state (delegate, representative) candidates. So I can vote with confidence. Governors and federal candidates generally come from the pool of local politicians. So give high priority to attending local primaries, political "hob nob" parties, and elections. That is the last great hope in the US.

Re:If the shoe fits

[fyngyrz]

Equal voting rights don't work because people aren't equal. It's just that simple. There is no possible system designed around equal voting rights that won't succumb to the fact that half the voters are idiots and a significant proportion of those on the other side of the bell curve, the non-idiots if you like, are uninformed or misinformed. Either people must be assigned to deal with issues who have the skills and knowledge to deal with those issues, or the issues will only be correctly dealt with as a matter of random chance.

The idea of equal voting rights of elected representatives or the general public is directly equivalent to letting anyone into a science lab to turn knobs, pour regents, sniff petri dishes, and wave lasers around. Only lab accidents usually only affect the local area. Accidents in congress - like the USAPATRIOT act - damage the entire country at one go. As do mishaps and errors in the executive and judiciary branches.

It doesn't help a whit if citizens "know" their representatives. The only thing that can help is if your representatives know what they are doing. Since the citizens don't, generally speaking, they have no basis to use as selection criteria for representatives.

None of this even matters in our current society because all legislation is based upon corporate or SIG needs and desires, or direct attempts to manipulate the populace and eliminate liberties via scare tactics (for the children, for your safety, there are terrorists at the gate, etc.)

Again, the only solution to the current situation is some form of rigid constitutional meritocracy. Odds are we won't get anywhere near such a thing; and if not, I confidently expect our society to fall of its own weight within just a few decades. Not with a bang - no revolution - I just expect it to fall apart. We're already completely broke and indebted as a country, we've allowed our manufacturing base to fall to pitiful levels under pressure from unions, other countries have done a good job of catching up to our one remaining lead in the IT based industry, our currency is inflating and our cost of living rising while our wages remain relatively stagnant, our liberties have been pared down to the bare minimum (and those that remain are mostly illusory - even freedom of speech is now a matter of governmental discretion.)

Local political issues are one thing; but if the underlying foundation falls apart, there's going to be a disaster of monumental proportions. A few days without food is all it takes to go from an orderly society to a completely savage free for all. The food banks are drying up right now. Things are not going well.

Re:If the shoe fits

[CustomDesigned]

There is no possible system designed around equal voting rights that won't succumb to the fact that half the voters are idiots and a significant proportion of those on the other side of the bell curve, the non-idiots if you like, are uninformed or misinformed. There are 3 roughly equal groups. The simple and ignorant, the smart and good hearted, and the smart and self-centered. The survival of civilization hinges on the decisions of the simple and ignorant. They are going to be led by the good/smart, or deceived by the evil/smart. It behooves the good/smart to be winsome, rather than cynical and pessimistic.

Re:Baen Books _are_ DRM free (Cheers) :)

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

Many thanks for the info. Regards Dimble

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[Virtual_Raider]

TFA states that it does not have wifi. And also says that you can access websites like google or wikipedia, but I wondered whether you'd be able to access other sites because of the flashy graphics and bling. The refresh rate on this screen is so low as to make that unfeasible. And it does have PDA. My point stands.

Mod parent up, this is not flamebait

[Falladir]

It might be presented abrasively and it might be a little hard to swallow, but the parent is right. GP's optimism is unfounded, about the quality of books written by authors no longer beholden to the publishing establishment. There will be brilliant stuff, to be sure, but there will be mountains of crap, too. I'm concerned about what will happen when authors don't have to commit to a text. That is, I'm wonder if we'd see _Great American Novel_ v1.0, v1.01, etc. To the parent: maybe some credible reviewers will be able to point us to the good stuff. If you just read the best blogs and sit on a good forum to get youtube links, you can reach a pretty high level of quality.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[TheRaven64]

In what world does 320x480 count as high res? I read eBooks on my 770 which has a 800x480 screen, and it's right at the lower limit of quality I'd consider acceptable for reading large amounts of text (225dpi - I'd prefer 300+ on a passively-lit screen).

prefer real books

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

With a tendency toward old fogey-ism acknowledged, I doubt I would ever use an ebook reader extensively. When I acquire a "book", I prefer it to be a physical thing that I own & not something that is licensed. Physical books are also desirable in that one doesn't need special technology to read them (except for something to provide light at night ... and maybe glasses ...).

I suppose I might use an ebook reader to read things that I would throw away, like a newspaper or a magazine ... or possibly work-related material that I didn't want to lug around.

At the end of the day, I suppose I just like real books - the feel of them, the way they look, smell, etc.

I realize that sounds luddite. Clearly I should just haul my keister down to the second-hand bookshop and kvetch with the subversives therein about this Demon of Progress.

Re:Too cheap.

[theNeophile]

Well I certainly see why no one takes this forum seriously. No, servers, personnel, or bandwidth don't go to zero or anywhere near zero. How much money do you think it costs to transmit a few hundred kilobytes? Are you from the past?

There is no somehow. It takes hard work and it takes compensation. Now if you believe that a pat on the back is all that's required? Be my guest, you'll get the results that go with it. What pat on the back? He's talking about selling e-books. Selling them for money.

Complicated

[newgalactic]

Will it fit in my back pocket on my way to the beach? Will it cost me $5.00 AT MOST at a local used book store? Can I read it in direct sunlight? Seems like a complicated solution to a very simple dilemma. Also, library's rock. They're free and usually have everything I'm looking for.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[knorthern knight]

> Maybe the device should have a movable weight in it that would move in one
> direction as you make progress in your book, shifting the devices COG/balance.

Look at the scrollbar on the right-hand of your screen as you're reading Slashdot. Isn't that enough?

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

TFA states that it does not have wifi.

You are smoking crack.

Newsweek:

The Kindle's real breakthrough springs from a feature that its predecessors never offered: wireless connectivity, via a system called Whispernet. (It's based on the EVDO broadband service offered by cell-phone carriers, allowing it to work anywhere, not just Wi-Fi hotspots.)

Machinist:

The device, reports say, will have Wi-Fi, Sprint's EV-DO wireless service to make book purchases on the go

And also says that you can access websites like google or wikipedia, but I wondered whether you'd be able to access other sites because of the flashy graphics and bling. The refresh rate on this screen is so low as to make that unfeasible. And it does have PDA. My point stands.

Then it stands on shit. You've never used a PDA... have you? Hint: a PDA is not a castrated, stripped down web browser.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[lena_10326]

It'll have both. Moron.

Re:I like the idea, but the beatings?

[innocent_white_lamb]

What makes you think the majority cost of publishing is in distribution and printing?
 
I don't know about distribution, but I was talking to a chap who owns a printing company the other day. He prints and spiral-binds a 210-page book for university bookstores. He gets paid $3 for each book he prints. They sell the book for $88.

Apple missed the boat...

[shmlco]

"I *really* don't think you can make an argument that your average person will put out $400 for an e-reader."

I think that's why Apple missed the boat on this one. But they seem locked on the notion that a "portable media device" means something that can play music and movies. They seem to forget that there are other forms of media that are older and yet in many ways more popular than CDs and DVDs and their digitized equivalents.

And, personally, I think the iPhone would be a very nice reader. I know I'd sacrifice some of the advantages of a Kindle NOT to have yet another device to lug around and recharge. See: Amazon Introduces Kindle; Apple Introduces Nothing

Re:Apple missed the boat...

[objekt]

Something tells me The Safari web browser on the iPhone is better than the one on the Kindle.

If not, then the one on Apple's iTablet (or Mac Tablet; whatever they call it) will certainly be better. I suspect the tablet will be fine for ebooks as well.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[cerberusss]

If I was into ebooks, I'd probably prefer reading them on a PSP because it's screen is wide. For reading, a wide screen is more important than a tall or square screen... IMO.

Then why do newspapers have columns? You don't want a wide screen. DTPers know that when lines exceed roughly 66 characters, people will have more difficulty switching their eyes to the next line.

Its the price, STUPID

[peter303]

Just about every other media has been digitized inexpensively (legally or illegally) except current books. I'd pay a few dollars for a one-month reading, but generally not the tens of dollars bookstores and ebooks charge now.

Ten Dollars !

[sherriw]

$10 for best sellers???

*looks at back of current paperback she's reading*

Yup, I paid $10 for a physical book. Why the hell would I pay $10 for a ebook? That being said I can get a used copy in good condition for usually $2-4.

This assumes I want to keep a copy. If I don't there's always the library down the street.

Figure out what the cost of a physical book is, minus the manufacturing costs, shipping, distribution and retailer costs. That's what the ebook should cost. The commission to the author, publisher and ebook distributor. That's it.

Silly.

Re:Ten Dollars !

[sherriw]

On top of that, for $400 you can buy a Palm TX which does a whole lot more including reading ebooks.

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[thatwouldbeme]

Agreed. Sometimes the device needs to be reinvented at a different level, i.e. by digitising the content instead of the physical interface. After all, the true innovation leading to mass adoption and success was not the book but the printing press, before which they already had books, it just took years to carefully copy onto animal skin. The printing press just made it easier to get the words onto the pages in the first place, a lesson ebook readers could take a lesson from.

disclaimer: shameless proponent of <a href="http://www.crowdspirit.com/idea/cheap-ultra-low-power-digital-book-with-pages">crowdspirit</a>

Re:Problem with Ebooks

[thatwouldbeme]

Let's try that with html!

Sometimes the device needs to be reinvented at a different level, i.e. by digitising the content instead of the physical interface. After all, the true innovation leading to mass adoption and success was not the book but the printing press, before which they already had books, it just took years to carefully copy onto animal skin. The printing press just made it easier to get the words onto the pages in the first place, a lesson ebook readers could take a lesson from.

Disclaimer: shameless proponent of crowdspirit

N770 for ebooks

[ODiV]

I've got an N770 which is even cheaper than the N800. It doesn't have all the features of the N800 (No flash 9, no skype), but it still works really well for ebooks. The screen size and resolution are great and FBreader is awesome.

I've read maybe 10 books on it since I got it and am loving it. Checking email and /. in airports and hotels is just a bonus.

Re:How does it beat just using a PSP or Gameboy DS

[JSlope]

For reading, a wide screen is more important than a tall or square screen... IMO

May be for viewing books, but not for reading, for reading it's better to have a PDA like device which comfortably fits into your hand.

day ad

[kurtis25]

I'm not sure I would object to ads on the device if it cut my costs. Most books come with ads, if I go to Borders books, they put ads in my bag, if I buy from Amazon they put ads in the box. Some publishers even put ads in the back of the books in the form of plugs for other books. Old books came with coupons, why not put a few ads in my ebook?

Three questions

[teslatug]

I admit I didn't read the 7 page story, but does it:
1. Let you back up your books so when you lose the $400 device you don't also lose your entire library?
2. Will it let you read the e-books on other e-readers or are you stuck to their device?
3. Is there any DRM that makes you reliant on the wireless network (i.e. if you're stuck for a year in Alaska with no connection can you still read your books)?

A keyboard?

[Radical Moderate]

Why the hell does a READER have one third of its real estate covered by a keyboard, that will probably be used very rarely? I mean, how much typing do you do while you're reading a book? Bad design, DRM, horrendous pricing. I hope the post that showed it on the cover of Newsweek isn't a hoax, because this thing is the poster child for what an e-book reader should not be, and when it tanks hopefully Apple or somebody will be taking lots of notes.

Logo of the device?

[hotfireball]

Hang on... where I saw this logo already... Ah, it is a ID Software's first Quake! ;-)

Slashdot comes on the Kindle!

[ers81239]

If you watch the promotional video at www.amazon.com, you will see that its possible to read slashdot on the Kindle.