Slashdot Mirror


The History of the Apple II as a Gaming Platform

Matt Barton writes "Gamasutra is running a feature on the venerable Apple II platform, which practically defined the early home computer industry and was home to many of the greatest games and developers of all time. The authors discuss the platform's lifespan and many iterations, struggles with illegal distribution, and legendary Apple II games such as Prince of Persia, John Madden Football, and Ultima. 'How big of a problem was piracy? Although several software authors claim that they stopped developing games because of rampant piracy and the subsequent loss of revenue, piracy did expose more computer owners to more games than they otherwise would have been -- this was at a time before ubiquitous demos made it easier to "try before you buy." Another benefit of this piracy is that much of the software archived today at online repositories are the cracked versions.'"

310 comments

  1. Apple II? Gaming platform? by Zarhan · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why does every computer "historian" ALWAYS forgets Commodore 64?

    Ultimas all the way to Ultima VI was available on C-64.

    1. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The article was about the Apple II, not the Commodore 64. Write your own article if you think it was overlooked.

    2. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hey, tard. Did you read the article.

      [Gamasutra's A History of Gaming Platforms series continues with a look at the Apple II system. Perhaps best-remembered for its ubiquity in U.S. classrooms in the 1980s, the computer was also a popular gaming system. Need to catch up? Check out the first two articles in the series, covering the Commodore 64 and the Vectrex.]

    3. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by idontgno · · Score: 2, Informative

      TFA much?

      [Gamasutra's A History of Gaming Platforms series continues with a look at the Apple II system. Perhaps best-remembered for its ubiquity in U.S. classrooms in the 1980s, the computer was also a popular gaming system. Need to catch up? Check out the first two articles in the series, covering the Commodore 64 and the Vectrex.]

      And yes, the Apple II series was the first kick-ass game system. I'm old enough to remember first-hand. What was the Apple's competition? The TRS-80? I had one... the games were meh at best. Certainly, in any game that was released on both of those platforms, the Apple's version looked and sounded better.

      Oh, yeah. What did Commodore have at this time? The PET? I heard rumors it had games.

      Now, contemporaneous with the C64 in the Apple stable was the IIGS. Amazing, but still basically trailing edge. Like the absolute technological pinnacle in steam locomotives at the time that the diesel-electric was becoming the mainstream rail propulsion system. The C64 and the Amiga pwn'd the IIGS in almost every meaningful way. (Yes, I know what I'm talking about. I have all three.)

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Why does every computer "historian" ALWAYS forgets Commodore 64? I've seen LOTS of articles covering the C=64 on /. recently. The Apple II series of computers were really good as gaming machines, though. They were among the very first machines with color graphics and you could play the games on your television. The crappy green screen monitors (and later, paper white screens for the //c) they sold with the Apple II series didn't make for a good gaming experience. You really needed a TV and an RF modulator (or a TV with composite input) for the best experience.
    5. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1

      I feel old posting this but you're right. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64. 40% market share in around '83-'85. There's also the VIC-20 which was its predecessor that I had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_VIC-20. First microcomputer to sell one million units. I remember having a wall climbing game on it that I played for days on end.

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    6. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Jonathan · · Score: 2, Informative


      Why does every computer "historian" ALWAYS forgets Commodore 64?

      Ultimas all the way to Ultima VI was available on C-64.


      1) The C64 was popular but not very historical -- it came out late in 8-bit history -- it came out in 1982. The Apple ][ came out in 1977. As a reminder, 16-bit computers like the IBM PC were already available in 1981.

      2) Sure things like Ultima were on the C64 too, but as ports coming months or years after the Apple ][ originals. People like Lord British used the Apple ][ as their premier platform all the way until Ultima 6.

    7. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ultima was first born on the Apple II, then moved over to Commodore 64 if memory serves me correctly.

      And the whole piracy thing, definitely had more of a promotional effect. A pirated copy of Ultima III was my main video game on C64 for several years. I now own nearly every Ultima game made (many of them in duplicate), I'm only missing Worlds of Ultima: Savage Empire.

    8. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1

      This prompted me to go look up that game. It was http://www.klov.com/C/Crazy_Climber.htmlcrazy climber. I remember trying to explain to my wife that I played a game where the objective was to climb a building while avoiding bird crap and falling flower pots. At least now I can prove I wasn't going crazy (about this at least).

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    9. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by donweel · · Score: 1

      In the begging I played the Scott Adams adventures, then were the Lord British games Alkabeth which preceded Ultima. But the most enjoyed were the Wizardry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry series from Sir Tech. I also enjoyed Castle Wolfenstien I remmber the word "SS" and "you are caught" sending shivers down my spine. The speech was pretty amazing for the hardware I think you had to toggle the speakers memory location.

      --
      Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
    10. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by FesterDaFelcher · · Score: 1

      Here you go. It is definitely worth it.

      --
      My user number is prime. Is yours?
    11. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      please, supply us with some of these great titles that existed for the apple when the only commodore computer that existed was the pet. they dont exist. nice try.

    12. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by nacturation · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ] CALL -151
      * 300: AD 30 C0 20 ED FD 4C 00 03
      * 300G


      This is:

      300: LDA $C030 ; Toggle the speaker
      303: JSR $FDED ; Print (random) contents of accumulator to screen
      306: JMP $0300 ; And start all over again


      Makes a wonderful visual clickfest on your screen that gets annoying. Imagine a school lab filled with machines running that. :) Last time I posted this, someone provided the relative branch alternative, thus saving a byte. However, I remember the above code from 20 years ago and that's the ways I likes it! If there's any demo competitions restricted to programs with a single digit number of bytes, that's my entry.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    13. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by IL-CSIXTY4 · · Score: 2, Informative

      How about Ultima I, released in 1980? The VIC-20 wasn't released until 1981, and Ultima I didn't make it to the 64 until 1986.

    14. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Hey, my first computer was a CoCo2. I won one - WON one - in 1985. (It was a lot like a TRS-80, for those who wonder what the hell I'm talking about.)

      It's how I learned to program. (Holy smokes, have I been programming for almost 23 years now?) Some of the games were meh, yeah, but others were great. You could get books and magazines that let you make your own games. I remember writing missile command and speedboat and coming up with my own little games. You could save them onto a tape drive (an actual tape recorder) for later use.

      I remember the old black and white TV. I was able to tell the difference between red and blue on the B&W TV.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    15. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      But the most enjoyed were the Wizardry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry series from Sir Tech. I played a pirated version of this on the local library's computers, whenever the librarian wasn't looking... After high school I joined her D&D game and we still play every Saturday night, almost 24 years later...

      I wrote my own game called 'Wizardry', in Basic on Apple ][. You played a wizard in a magical duel against another wizard. It was loosely based on a T$R game whose name I don't remember anymore.

      I also enjoyed Castle Wolfenstien I remmber the word "SS" and "you are caught" sending shivers down my spine. The speech was pretty amazing for the hardware I think you had to toggle the speakers memory location. $C030, still burned in my memory.
    16. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "What was the Apple's competition?"

      The Atari 400/800 computers. 100 times better graphics and sound, full color (not a crappy green screen), and for way less than Apples were priced. And you could use a television as a monitor, so while your 12" green screen I'm sure looked awesome, my Atari hooked up to a 25" TV blew anything Apple had at the time away.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    17. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by saboola · · Score: 4, Funny

      My first computer was two rocks and a stick. It had only one game, called two rocks and a stick. The expansion module, three rocks and a stick, was too expensive.

    18. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by cromar · · Score: 1

      Man, I loved that Baseball ROM cart for the TRS-80. I didn't like playing it much, but I really got a kick watching it play against itself. I had tons of game cassettes for it, but I could never get the damn tape reader to work!

    19. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Tony · · Score: 1

      Space Invaders.
      Star Wars.
      Aztec.

      --
      Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    20. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Jhon · · Score: 1

      Isn't this pissing contest over yet?

      Apple won. They still make and sell computers. Atari? Even after the dead-kitty bounce, they were delisted a few years ago, lost their CFO last year and they are running out of money. What did they do? Republish games from the 1970's and 80's.

      That said, I agree with you. My first PC was an 800. Moved up to a 1200xl, 800xl, then 130xe. Even had an MIO. Atari WAS better hardware. But Apple had better management.

    21. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually the Atari 400/800 was a competitor to the AppleII. It was a better gaming machine.
      The C-64 was was a competitor to the Apple II+ and Apple IIe.
      The Apple IIGS competed with the Commodore 128, the Amiga, and the Atari ST.

      Which was better between the 128 and IIgs? That is a really hard fight. The IIgs was really a 16bit mutant AppleII. It had a lot of features of the Mac thrown in. It had great sound but it was expensive.
      The 128 had good sound, good graphics, 80 column text, it could run a mind numbing amount of software since it ran all the C-64 software. It's own native software, and CP/M.
      Had it come out in 1982 it would have been huge.

      The AppleII was great for two big reasons.
      1. It had slots.
      2. It was super well documented.
      So it was easy two write software and build hardware for it.
      It was well loved and one of many great machines of it's day.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    22. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Digdug - Although that was not originall to the Apple, I played it first on an Apple II, hand coded from some hack sheets I had.

      ZORK I-III - again, not original to Apple (in fact, the port also existed on the Commodore 64), but my first time playing it was on an Apple II.

    23. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      It isn't a pissing contest. Yes, Apple still exists today. And yes, Atari had better games and hardware back in the day. These two things don't contradict each other, or cancel each other out. They can both be absolutely true. And in the early 80s, Atari and Commodore owned the marketshare. It's no secret why - better hardware at cheaper prices. And BTW Atari still exists as a video game company today and is still making games.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    24. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by G.+Ratte' · · Score: 1

      You're talking nonsense. Apple IIs output color composite video out-of-the-box, and typically had RF modulators on them to connect to color TVs.

      --
      G. Ratte'/cDc "I don't know what your problem is, but I bet it's hard to pronounce."
    25. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had a stick?

      In my day we only had ONE rock and we liked it.

      Kids today, meh.

    26. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Creepy · · Score: 4, Informative

      The C64 was released in August, 1982. The Vic 20 Jan 1981. The Vic was cassette only until 1982 and took 20 minutes to load a program. The PET I used had 4k of RAM and AWFUL games (with a max of 8k RAM, hard to do much).

      oh, where to begin... these are some of my earliest Apple ][ memories
      The Oregon Trail (1970s, diskette version mid '80s)
      Odyssey: The Comleat Apventure (1980) - written in integer BASIC, not MS-BASIC
      Ultima I (1980)
      Zork I (1980)
      Zork II (1981)
      Sneakers (1981)
      Sabotage (1981)
      Gorgon (1981)
      Space Eggs (1981)
      Castle Wolfenstein (1981)
      Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981 - and Hi Werdna!)
      Softporn Adventure (1981) [text - graphical update became Leisure Suit Larry] - had to throw that in ;)
      maybe Aztek (may have been 1982...)

      I didn't say Akalabeth (prequel to Ultima 1979-80) because I personally found it very unfun, but it was entertaining until I starved for the 300th time. Also the Prisoner (1980?), which some people liked, but I didn't.

    27. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the Apple II was designed to use a TV for a monitor don't you? That was why only 40 columns and the weird graphics design. When the Apple II was released custom chips were very expensive so it didn't use any unlike some of the later computers.
      Due to FCC regs you had to buy the RF doohickey separately.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    28. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      "Now, contemporaneous with the C64 in the Apple stable was the IIGS"

      Well... The 64 was launched years before the IIGS. By that time, I think Apple had the III (///?) which was not suitable for any games. Heck - it was not suitable for many Apple II software titles.

      The 64 was a really amazing machine for the time. 64 KB and color graphics was amazingly cool.

      And, well, before the 64 they had the VIC-20.

    29. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by bpsbr_ernie · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now mommy told you, not to play with two rocks and a stick. She said you'd go blind...

    30. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The AppleII was great for two big reasons.
      1. It had slots.
      2. It was super well documented.

      You forgot:

      3. It had an affordable floppy disk drive

    31. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Jhon · · Score: 1

      And BTW Atari still exists as a video game company today and is still making games.
      The atari of today is not the same atari of the 80s.

      Essentially, atari went teets up. It's Infogames or something which licence the name and logo in much the same way as RCA or POLORIOID products are licenced -- except they actually publish some decent product.
    32. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      I used to use the same program, except I loaded the accumulator with the contents of a zero page location whose contents were constantly changing.

    33. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Apple of today is not the same Apple of the 80s. Back then they were a semi-revolutionary company with dreams of changing the world. Now they are just another blah corporation trying to get your money, like the rest of them.

    34. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      I used to use the same program, except I loaded the accumulator with the contents of a zero page location whose contents were constantly changing. $C030 also constantly changes, though I never did investigate how random the results were. Doing an LDA at that location does double duty to not only give you a speaker click but also to load a random character into the accumulator.
      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    35. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by VValdo · · Score: 1

      Oh, yeah. What did Commodore have at this time? The PET? I heard rumors it had games.

      I can confirm that it did, in fact, have games. Unfortunately, you had to type them all in by hand from a book and included titles like "Hunt The Wumpus", "Lemonade Stand", and "Tic Tac Toe". If you did want to save them, and you were lucky, you had a tape recorder you could use...

      You were also limited to the alternative special characters (two or three for each letter, a bit like the commodore 64). I kinda remember a version of space invaders that used the alternative character set.

      Apple's HiRes mode kicked the crap out of this.

      Early games on the Apple II:

      Mystery House
      Wizard & The Princess (I hated that desert/maze)
      Evolution (kinda like an early Spore...?)
      Sneakers (a more-fun Space Invaders)
      EAMON (not graphical, but a very early RPG, although honestly it never worked right for me)
      Dung Beetles (pac man w/gigantic map & voice synthasizer that said "We Gotcha!")
      Castle Wolfenstein (parodied by "Castle Smurfenstein" by Silus S. Smurf)

      W

      --
      -------------------
      This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    36. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by beckerist · · Score: 1

      I distinctly remember playing 3 games on an Apple IIe:
      Number Munchers - Puzzle game where you solve answers by eating the appropriate number
      Lode Runner - Puzzle game where you have to collect all the coins to open the door to exit the level
      Head of the Class - A pre-Jeopardy Jeopardy where the more questions you got right the further up the classroom you'd sit.

      Ahhh the games of my youth, those three games were the FIRST video games I'd ever played!

    37. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Jhon · · Score: 1

      You're kidding, right? They are the exact same corporate entity. They are "the same" as they were in the 1980s in just the same way as *I* am the same as I was in the 1980's -- just a bit older and wiser.

      The current "atari" is like some guy who changed his name to "atari" after the REAL atari died.

    38. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by bonknasty · · Score: 1

      If you're old enough to have had all three of those platforms, you're also too old to be inflecting your writing with "leetspeak".

      --
      www.arkhambrewingcompany.com For all your Lovecraftian T-Shirt needs
    39. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Creepy · · Score: 1

      You apparently know nothing about early Apples.

      The Apple I was sold along with RF converter - non-Apple to get by FCC's heinous shielding rules - the same rules that caused the 400/800 to not have expansion slots and use an expensive serial bus - to be able to connect to standard television screens in 1977. That same converter was used on any monitor or TV. My parent's ][e wasn't even hooked up to a green screen until 1986 (and then it was switchboxed to a TV). The green/amber screens were sold for readability.

      The Atari 400/800 were RAM limited and essentially a glorified 2600 (better graphics and sound, but still couldn't do much) and were primarily cartridge based systems with hardly any carts for them and you needed a tape drive to save anything, which hardly any 400 owners I knew had. The 400 had the worst keyboard on the face of the earth. IMO, the Atari computers were junk until the 800XL.

      Apple's main graphical limit was 7 color high res graphics, but dithering made it look like there were more colors. The game Airheart shown in the examples of the article is I believe the first 560x192 15 color double hi-res game, and required a certain ROM revision (second or third production run), which my mom got only because hers blew a motherboard in the warranty period. Sound on the ][ sucked, but was decent through a Mockingboard. The AppleCAT modem was awesome (1200 baud to other AppleCATs, otherwise 300, but a very cheap 1200 baud modem for the time).

    40. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      Sublogic Flight Simulator
      Wizardry I
      Aklabeth
      Temple of Apshai

    41. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 2, Informative

      And you apparently know nothing about early Ataris.

      Ram limited? My Atari 800 had 48K of ram - it had 4 slots for RAM expansion. It also came with 8K standard - double the stock amount in the Apple IIs. Tape drive? Hardly. Never had one for my Atari - I had a floppy drive. The original Apple IIs came with a tape drive. And as for the 400 having "the worst keyboard on the face of the earth" - obviously you never tried typing any significant amounts of code onto the old Timex/Sinlair TI-99 keybaords. Think trying to program using a cell phone keyboard, or a Speak N Spell. Also the Ataris had a MOS 6502 processor running at 1.8 Mhz compared to the MOS 6502 processor running at 1 Mhz in the Apples. So how exactly is the computer running the same processor, but almost twice as fast something you "couldn't do much with" compared to the Apple? Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the price of the Apple II was $1300 compared to the $1000 price of the Atari. So, double the RAM, almost double to processing speed for $300 less. And you are correct - sound on the Apple IIs did suck, but the Ataris had excellent sound. I even had a fully digitized 2 second clip of some Van Halen song that would play on my old 800. And that was still in the 80s.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    42. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by quest(answer)ion · · Score: 1

      surely one of the best and earliest gaming platforms. but don't forget the more casual originals, like:

      Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego (1985)

      to this day, one of the most fun and mildly educational games i played as a young one in the late 80s, and it was first released for the apple II. i still ended up playing it and other slightly-ridiculous "edutainment" titles in elementary and middle school on the IIe, even well into the heyday of the first godforsaken iMacs. for schools with limited access to new hardware, the apple II really seemed to have some enormous staying power and flexibility.

      early PCs often get compared to contemporaneous gaming platforms, but personally, i didn't own a single gaming console until i was in my 20s--starting out with the apple II made me an avid pc gamer, and i'm wicked grateful for that.

      --
      /. is what happens when geeks talk. get used to it.
    43. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      As it happens, I remember surveying the competition before buying the Apple II+. At the time, the choices were.
      TRS80-black and white extremely low resolution block graphics
      Commodore PET-black and white character based graphics; no ability to put an arbitrary dot anywhere on the screen
      Exidy sorcerer-black and white character based graphics; no ability to put an arbitrary block anywhere on the screen

      I initially wanted to avoid the Apple, and was leaning toward the Exidy sorcerer, which was compatible with the Z80/S100 based systems that were the "standard" in those days.
      But I soon found that the Apple II was the only one that offered "color" graphics with the ability to address an individual pixel on the screen.
      The color was very limited based on a clever Wozniak hack that took advantage of an artifact of how a dot was displayed on a color screen. It offered a palette of two colors, and was position based. You could have violet or green (alternate pixels being one color or the other). Or you could have orange or blue (with the ability to switch palettes at the byte level). To get white, you had to illuminate neighboring pixels. Later on, people figured out how to dither these colors to get a larger palette.

      But it was still color and pixel-level graphics addressing, at a time when other computers with color or pixel level graphics capability cost at least three times as much. It was the only computer even close to its price range that supported vector graphics other than with crude, character size blocks. It also offered two analog inputs. Initially, the system came with two game paddles, but before long there were analog joysticks available. Another major feature that was important in early games was the support of dual graphics buffers, enabling games to draw to one buffer then rapidly switch buffers.

      The first game that really blew people away was Space Invaders, because it looked identical to the arcade version. A bit later Asteroids came out, not quite as perfect, because the arcade original used a genuine vector display that the Apple II emulated with pixel graphics, but very close.

      There was no dedicated sprite hardware. Early developers had to write their own sprite engines. Although you could control every single pixel on the screen, the software could only write a byte at a time, at fixed boundaries, so early sprite engines used tables of pre-shifted shapes to avoid the overhead of shifting a bitmap relative to byte boundaries.

    44. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Ah, nice. I don't recall whether I ever tried that.

    45. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      It isn't a pissing contest. Yes, Apple still exists today. And yes, Atari had better games and hardware back in the day.


      Eventually. The Apple II was the first home system with the capacity do games that rivaled the arcades, and it remained a strong game system throughout the 8-bit era, although graphically it was eventually surpassed by computers from Commodore and Atari that offered built-in videogame hardware features such as hardware sprites and sound synthesizers. The Apple II simply provided a screen buffer to write data to. Everything had to be done in software--shifting sprites on the screen, synthesizing music (the speaker supported only a simple on/off click, but clever programmers learned how to modulate this to produce (somewhat harsh) tones. Even writing to the disk was under direct cpu control at the bit level, leading to some truly bizarre protection schemes.
    46. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by dan828 · · Score: 1

      Is anybody else getting all nostalgic from these posts? I can remember having such arguments with my friends back in the day. Of course I moved past it shortly after my mid teens, but boy does this bring back memories.

      Of course, one of the really great things about the Apple was the underground warez scene-- you could find just about anything on the various Catsends and AE dial up sites. It seemed to make for a much more dynamic computer than other computers had.

    47. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "Of course, one of the really great things about the Apple was the underground warez scene-- you could find just about anything on the various Catsends and AE dial up sites. It seemed to make for a much more dynamic computer than other computers had."

      Trust me, the same existed for the Atari. As a matter of fact, I used to run an Atari BBS, as did a number of my friends. I eventually switched to an IBM PC clone and ran my board off that, but the old Atari BBS days were a lot of fun.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    48. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by jgoemat · · Score: 1

      Oh, yeah. What did Commodore have at this time? The PET? I heard rumors it had games.

      Now, contemporaneous with the C64 in the Apple stable was the IIGS. Amazing, but still basically trailing edge. Like the absolute technological pinnacle in steam locomotives at the time that the diesel-electric was becoming the mainstream rail propulsion system. The C64 and the Amiga pwn'd the IIGS in almost every meaningful way. (Yes, I know what I'm talking about. I have all three.)

      Commodore 64: Introduced August 1982, Discontinued April 1994
      Apple IIgs: Introduced September 1986, Discontinued December 1992.

      If by "contemporaneous" you mean 4 years after the fact, then the Commodore 64 was "contemporaneous" with the Apple II as well. It was also sold with a disk drive for less than the IIGS and you could connect it to your TV instead of buying a computer monitor.

    49. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by code4fun · · Score: 1

      I still have a bunch of those floppies in my parent's basement. Hope they didn't throw them out. Those were fun times. :) Castle Wolfenstein rocked!

    50. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow.... Sneakers, Gorgon, and Space Eggs...

      I had completely forgotten how much fun I had with Space Eggs....

    51. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Tiny+Elvis · · Score: 1

      Um for one thing Amiga pwnd both of them. Secondly the C64 was technically inferior in almost every way to the IIgs. The C64 had a much better library though. Apple abandoned the IIgs for the Mac so it died quietly.

    52. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The VIC20 also had a cartridge slot and most cassette applications/games didn't take anywhere near 20 minutes to load. I think you are remembering incorrectly.

    53. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Techman83 · · Score: 1

      Indeed, the Apple ][e is what accelerated my Interest in computers. Gaming did start on an old Hitachi we had, but it was Apple that gave me the spark. Writing games and playing Text adventures... Oh the memories... Now get off my lawn!

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i cat
      Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
    54. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by weeerdo · · Score: 0

      In the early 80s we had van halen on the apple 2+. creative computing magazine published a assembly language sampler with variable sampling rate. the apple 2 had a sound input - the cassette input.

      On the crappiest setting, which had a grainy AM radio effect, 48Kb held about 20 seconds of audio. the best setting was something like 2 seconds.

    55. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by solitas · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You could get books and magazines that let you make your own games.

      Remember when BYTE was really a JOURNAL and not a magazine (and now it's nothing)? InCider? Kilobaud! (MORE 'zines should have their index on the cover - It Was Awesome! we miss you Wayne - we also loved '73) 80-Micro? The old Dr. Dobb's? And a BUNCH of others.

      There's nothing good anymore.

      --
      "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
    56. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      And Choplifter - the original 'helicopter' game in my personal archive of 'games I played'.

      For the life of me, I still can't get over the thought of playing video games on a green-screen monochrome monitor. Days better left remembered, and left un-relived.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    57. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Inner_Child · · Score: 1

      Here's a question for you: Do you by any chance remember the Arcade Explorers series of books? I owned a CoCo 2, then it died, and of course, that's when I found those books (which were choose your own adventure style applied to computer games) so I never actually got a chance to type in the thousands of lines of code. Apparently they were halfway decent, but I can't say for sure.

      --
      Today is red jello day - all workers must eat all of their red jello. Failure to comply will result in five demerits.
    58. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by statusbar · · Score: 1

      Reading from write-only registers would give you weird numbers. Then someone figured out that these numbers being read were the last byte being read at that time by the video circuitry. Using this concept, I could fill a horizontal line with an oddball text character, then run a tight loop which polls $c0x0. When it sees this special byte, it changes display modes to hires. Then it searches for another oddball character expected in a horizontal line in hires more. At that point, switch back to text mode.

      The net result was a solid image with text mode up top and hires (or lores) mode at the bottom of the screen!

      Now, get off my lawn! http://www.jdkoftinoff.com/main/Information/About_Jeff_Koftinoff/1979_Article

      --jeffk++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    59. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Reading from write-only registers would give you weird numbers. Then someone figured out that these numbers being read were the last byte being read at that time by the video circuitry. Using this concept, I could fill a horizontal line with an oddball text character, then run a tight loop which polls $c0x0. When it sees this special byte, it changes display modes to hires. Then it searches for another oddball character expected in a horizontal line in hires more. At that point, switch back to text mode.

      The net result was a solid image with text mode up top and hires (or lores) mode at the bottom of the screen!

      Now, get off my lawn! Nice effect... I wish I had played around with that. And with that, I think your lawn's bigger than mine!
      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    60. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      RTFA - they already did write an article on the Commodore 64, but I can't find the Slashdot article for it.

      FWIW, here's the link: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1991/a_history_of_gaming_platforms_the_.php

    61. Re:Apple II? Gaming platform? by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Sorry - yes, you are correct - it was the C64 that took 20 minutes for some programs from tape. The Vic was more like 4-5 at worst. I had a train-of-thought bump there because I started talking about the C64. The cart slot wasn't well used among the people I knew - yes, because of rampant piracy.

      The slow and flaky Commodore '1541' (aka 'toaster') disk drives were an improvement over tape, but still could take 5 minutes to load a program and the drive heads were notorious for misaligning (a relatively easy fix if you knew how, an expensive problem if you didn't). I kinda liked fixing disk drives of all varieties in the mid-to-late '80s, but I was trying to stick to my horrible tape experiences in the early '80s in the post. The later '157x' drives were faster and more reliable, but harder to fix.

  2. Robot Odyssey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah yes, I can recollect spending many hours with pencil and paper designing circuits for the game Robot Odyssey. (Usually in the middle of English class...)

    1. Re:Robot Odyssey by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I can remember in junior high (that's middle school to some of you) that I had a good friend who was in the special education class (mainly because he was a pot-smoking asshole, and not because he was dumb), and they had an Apple II with Karateka and Dig-Dug. This was around 1985-1986. Those games kicked ass. I still play Karateka on emulators, and it's still an incredibly good martial arts game.

      I was raised by my grandparents who were on a fixed income, so when they finally bought me a computer (I was in grade 6 as I recall), it was the horrible Radio Shack MC-10, a retarded sibling of the not-so-hot Color Computers. Mind you, I did teach myself to program in BASIC, and every job I've ever had is in computers, and I can attribute a good deal of that learning to the Microsoft BASIC interpreter in the MC-10, along with some rather hackish 6803 assembly.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Robot Odyssey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wasn't in Palatine, was it?

    3. Re:Robot Odyssey by Remillard · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how many got into programming because of Robot Odyssey.

      Not programming but electrical engineering, yes. It wasn't the only influence, but it was a major one. It was perfect for learning logic design and getting into the build and debug cycle.

    4. Re:Robot Odyssey by Bryan+K.+Feir · · Score: 1

      Oh, I was into programming already when I ran into that game, but it certainly accelerated my interest...

  3. Best Games by coinreturn · · Score: 1

    Crisis Mountain, Lode Runner, BoulderDash, Choplifter

    1. Re:Best Games by xstonedogx · · Score: 1

      Lemonade Stand, The Dark Crystal, Oregon Trail, Taipan, Karateka, even Wasteland. Those were the days.

    2. Re:Best Games by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Choplifter was amazing. I played that game for hours. Never had the instructions, though, so I had to press random keys and hope I got my tanks and what not. Never bothered to write down the keys though. Mostly memorization. Maybe that... maybe that wasn't Choplifter I was playing...

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    3. Re:Best Games by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
      Taipan is still available

      Choplifter sort of

      The rest...I don't know. But they're probably out there somewhere....

      --
      I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    4. Re:Best Games by the_macman · · Score: 1

      I used to play a game called Choplifter on my Mac Classic. You were a helicopter and your goal was to drop a man into a moving hay wagon, if you missed he died. You only had three tries and the wagon keeps speeding up.

      Does anyone remember this game? Because it's quite different from the Choplifter referenced in wiki I want to know if the game I played had an ending.

    5. Re:Best Games by djdavetrouble · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
      music lover since 1969
    6. Re:Best Games by FyreFiend · · Score: 1

      I do remember that game, though it don't think it was called Choplifter. I wish I could remember the name because I'd love to find a copy.

      --
      - Apple Computer......proudly going out of business for over twenty years.
    7. Re:Best Games by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It was called "Stun Copter". It has it's own Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunt_Copter and.... It's been released for OS X! http://antell.com/software/games.html

      Anyone with any leads on New World ROMS so I can fire up and install OS 9 or something? I have a stack (50+) of all my old MacAddict CDs and somewhere I know I have an "Inside Mac Games" from around 1996. That thing had on it the first game I ever bought (shareware). Realmz II.

      Oh and Warlords. First turn based game I ever played. Man I love that. Although I loved cheats so I would use this program which would search active memory from a program for a value and then change it. (I only had the Warlords Demo, so I'd search for "turn" and when I was approaching 40 turn limit I'd reset it to 10)

      And Taskmaker...

      I'm laid up from Knee surgery. I know what I'm going to be wanting to do for the rest of the day.

    8. Re:Best Games by rho · · Score: 5, Funny

      I like how I can't play the Virtual Apple games on Safari.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    9. Re:Best Games by djdavetrouble · · Score: 1

      I like how I can't play the Virtual Apple games on Safari.
      or any mac that doesn't have parallels, or boot camp and a windows virtual machine...

      PowerPC users will have to use an emulator and dig around for roms/images. Same for
      Linux / MIPS / SPARC / DEC / whatever users.

      My favorites were Threshold, Aztec, Choplifter, Wolfenstein...

      --
      music lover since 1969
    10. Re:Best Games by shark72 · · Score: 1

      Yup... you're thinking of Rescue Raiders. Similar idea (fly a helicopter in a side-scrolling environment) but, as you mentioned, you had tanks, artillery, and other goodies on command.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    11. Re:Best Games by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Crisis Mountain, Lode Runner, BoulderDash, Choplifter

      I never played Crisis Mountain, but those other three were great. My other favourites:

      Hard Hat Mack, Conan, Ultima I & II, and Gemstone Warrior.

    12. Re:Best Games by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that, I came to this thread to get the name of that trading game, and I find a remake! Time for some timewasting.

    13. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, excellent, thank you!

    14. Re:Best Games by Zzesers92 · · Score: 1

      Choplifter... remember accidentally dropping the people? Another favorite of mine that I haven't seen mentioned yet was Taipan. Trading Opium, Silk, Arms and General to try to make a million dollars. Oh the memories.

    15. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't work on Microsoft Internet Explorer for Windows XP either. Didn't try Firefox for windows though.

    16. Re:Best Games by MorePower · · Score: 1

      Looks to me like you can't play them using Firefox or IE either (the supposedly supported browsers). Firefox just prompts me to install a plug-in which doesn't seem to exist, and IE loads up the game and says "Check Starting Device" for any game.

    17. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not Choplifter, you were playing Rescue Raiders, known by some on other platforms as Armor Alley.

      As long as were talking about piracy's influence on Apple// gaming. The story/legend with RR was the guy who cracked it (Mr Krak Man?) discovered if you typed in "POPPY", you got access to cheat codes. Things like level skips, extra lifes, cash, warps (jump to the opposite end of the level.) He changed the word to "ZIPPY".

      Soon enough, all the computer magazines in their game-tip columns were advising people to type in "ZIPPY" to access the cheats.

    18. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it fucking requires ActiveX. I would rather just download a proper Apple ][ emulator.

    19. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at the source, you can find the URL to the plugin. Having said that, after trying a couple games it seems some of the keys trigger the back button of the browser...

    20. Re:Best Games by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      Choplifter Thank you so much. That was the first game I ever played on a computer that my family got as a hand-me-down from my uncle. I could not remember the name. Now I just need to figure the Indiana Jones type game that was a side-scrolling game with similar style graphics as Choplifter. That was my favorite game for a long time.
      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    21. Re:Best Games by dintech · · Score: 1

      I like the sound of "Stun Cop-ter", I bet it's fun. Don't tase me bro!

    22. Re:Best Games by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      I got them to work on IE here at work.

    23. Re:Best Games by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      Probably Pitfall.

    24. Re:Best Games by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      Graphically yes but the game I remember was inside caves. Pitfall 2: The Lost Caverns might fit the bill but it still doesn't feel right. I vaguely remember pyramids or something Egyptian-like in the game. Sigh, I guess I'll keep looking.

      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    25. Re:Best Games by kehren77 · · Score: 1

      Montezuma's Revenge and Moon Patrol

    26. Re:Best Games by 666999 · · Score: 1

      I loved playing the original Castle Wolfenstein on my family's Apple II. Great audio effects made it scary as hell. Lode Runner got the most play time for me, however.

    27. Re:Best Games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because the ghost of the old Apple II series is bitter at being canceled in favor of the Macintosh line.

  4. The good old days by eviloverlordx · · Score: 4, Informative

    That brings back memories of junior high school, and playing cracked versions of various arcade games (complete with signature opening screens) on the school's Apple //e machines. Not to mention 'hacking' the 5-1/4 SS floppies to get cheap DS usage. While today's games are certainly graphically superior, in many ways they've gotten to be somewhat pedestrian compared to the excitement of playing Dig Dug or Conan on the green monitors.

    --
    'Loose' is when your pants are three sizes too big. 'Lose' is when you misuse 'loose'.
    1. Re:The good old days by smokytgab · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I actually just finished getting a working one together and giving to my girlfriend and her suitemates. It defined a lot of elementary childrens' computer experiences and was actually my first computer as well. Even when I was looking up various information on how to get the various disk images onto 5 1/4 floppies (great program http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/), it amazed me how open and extendable the Apple ][ was. There are still small companies that make various expansion cards for things such as Ethernet and Serial connections. Not to mention the fact that the 6502 was the same processor used in the SNES, thereby creating a great platform for future game developers to start honing their skills.

    2. Re:The good old days by Sebastopol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Locksmith 3.0 FTW!

      --
      https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    3. Re:The good old days by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in many ways they've gotten to be somewhat pedestrian compared to the excitement of playing Dig Dug or Conan on the green monitors.

      It occurs to me the reason we don't excited about games the way we did when we first played Pong, or messed around with early Apples and C64s is because back then, this was all cutting-edge stuff and very non-mainstream. We were doing cool shit that almost nobody else knew about. In the days before the NES and Sega Master system, I could count people I knew who played videogames on one hand.

      Nowadays, everybody and his cousin owns at least a couple piece of hardware able to play games, even if it's just a low-spec PC and a cellphone, and most games tend to basically be point releases, incremental upgrades designed to suck up your spare cash, not try anything new.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    4. Re:The good old days by Jimmy+King · · Score: 1

      Conan was awesome. I played that on my grandpa's apple II C+. I think my uncle hacked something on it, though, since it had unlimited lives. I was in for a shock years later when I played it on an emulator and had to restart after 3 deaths.

    5. Re:The good old days by CaseCrash · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the fact that the 6502 was the same processor used in the SNES, thereby creating a great platform for future game developers to start honing their skills.
      The NES had a modifed 6502 like the Apple II. The SNES used a 65c816.
      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    6. Re:The good old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      compared to the excitement of playing Dig Dug or Conan on the green monitors. Monochrome??? Bitch, please... I hooked up my RF TV to my II+ for 4-bit colour awesomeness.

      Plus I could easily head to the software store downtown and rent original floppies of all the games. Yup, rent. Good times.

      TIME MACHINE 4 LIFE SUCKAS!!!

    7. Re:The good old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it amazed me how open and extendable the Apple ][ was


      One of the things I loved about the Apple ][ and the C-64 were the manuals. Chock full of programming information, technical information about various chips in the computer, and even schematics. Of course there was the general how to use the computer stuff but vast potions of those manuals were like candy for geeks and hackers.
    8. Re:The good old days by nacturation · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe this is just nostalgia talking, but a lot of games back then were just plain fun. I recently dug out my Apple IIc and was amazed that a lot of my floppies still worked. After playing a few games, they seem to have a character that's lacking in today's games. That's likely a reflection of your last point as well... the games today are just all rehashes. Most first person shooters are simply the same game engine with a new graphics and sound facelift.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    9. Re:The good old days by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      I remember the wannabe 'hackers' in my high school who thought they were elite (though I'm unsure whether that term was in usage back then) because they had Locksmith and a parameter list.

      I remember wandering the halls during some stupid 'pep rally' or something (actually I think it may have been an awards ceremony for the senior class), and getting stopped by a teacher and asked why we weren't there. We showed her our boxes of disks and mumbled something about 'doing computer stuff' and she let us go...

    10. Re:The good old days by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that the 6502 was the same processor used in the SNES

      Minor quibble: the SNES has a 65816, the 16-bit successor of the 6502. It was the NES that had a 6502 (well, almost, since it lacked the decimal mode due to patent reasons).

    11. Re:The good old days by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I actually just finished getting a working one together and giving to my girlfriend and her suitemates.

      Big mistake. Now she's not going to have to come over to your place to get her Apple ][ fix. She'll probably end up spending all her weekends in her basement hacking and you'll never get laid again.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:The good old days by fermion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The cool thing was that every thing was a game on the Apple. Shape tables made programming games relatively easy. Disk Muncher should have probably been on the controlled substances list as it was the gateway drug to what is now referred to as piracy. Even trig function took on a whole new meaning when manipulated on an Apple.

      The programming in particular was transformative. I already had opportunities to code in basic and Fortran on teletypes and dumb terminals. The graphics on the Apple were fascinating, though primitive. It also took more code, and as mentioned above, more mathematics, than with modern high level graphic API, and the results were certainly less sophisticated, but the effect on us kids seemed intense. It was something we made, not just downloaded and consumed.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    13. Re:The good old days by hitmark · · Score: 1

      send of a thanks to woz for the openness. after he walked out of day to day work at apple, its been going downhill in terms of openness...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    14. Re:The good old days by MidVicious · · Score: 1

      My jaw dropped when they mentioned the game Airheart. I remember how amazed me and my older brother were at the absolutely amazing graphics and the 3-D like gameplay. "Double Hi-Res" was the catch phrase of that time in our household.

      Airheart was a gem, but not the only one. During this mid-to-late eighties, some very incredible games were being released for the AppleIIe: Prince of Persia was released around this time which dwarfed the giant game Karateka.

      And then there was Nine Princes of Amber, an Adventure game with a verb parser that was ten-times as sophisticated as any Adventure came at the time. For an example, while conversing with a woman, you could comment on any facet of her body or personality using nearly 50 different verbs (stunning smile, radiant eyes, gorgeous blouse) which the character would react to in numerous ways, which made the game incredibly difficult but absolutely brilliant.

      Please excuse the oligatory PR#6. Thank you. :P

      I actually have an emulator with a few classics, but now that I've been reminded... Airheart... I'm back!

    15. Re:The good old days by smurgy · · Score: 1

      "Conan has succumbed to lassitude."

      20 years later I finally found out what lassitude meant.

    16. Re:The good old days by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Locksmith 3.0 FTW!

      No way, man, Copy ][+ forever!

    17. Re:The good old days by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Maybe this is just nostalgia talking, but a lot of games back then were just plain fun.


      Some of it is nostalgia... but some of it is true. Dogfight is still fun to this day.
    18. Re:The good old days by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > (complete with signature opening screens)

      Yup! Sometimes the "krack" screens were more visually interesting then the games!

    19. Re:The good old days by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Exactly!!

      One of the best hacks...

      - Copy ROM to a 16K Lang Card
      - Bank-switch to use the RAM Card @ $D000-$FFFF
      - Change it so the reset vector would jump to the monitor ;-)
      - Make it read-only
      - Boot Copy ][+ (it had 3 tracks, each only _1_ sector long!!)
      - Reset
      - Save $800-$900
      - Boot a normal DOS disk
      - Bsave the Copy ][+ image in memory :)

    20. Re:The good old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > While today's games are certainly graphically superior, in many ways they've gotten to be somewhat pedestrian compared to the excitement of playing Dig Dug or Conan on the green monitors.

      For me they seemed new and exciting back then, but I think it's just because I was a wide-eyed youth in those earlier days of gaming. I wouldn't go back though.

    21. Re:The good old days by Snoggle · · Score: 1

      The first time I realized that I could make a career out of this fun computer stuff was when a guy "paid" me to get his SilenType printer working with a 16K RAM "language card" for my Apple II+ (about $300 IIRC). That was great since my giant 48K memory was still not up to the requirement for playing Zaxxon.
      My first real job with a paycheck was before I could drive, cracking educational software for a school system. Kids were constantly ruining the floppy disks so my job was to copy all the originals and send out only copies to the teachers. I was willing to do that just for fun and they offered to pay me. What a deal! They even bought me a copy of Locksmith, CopyII+ and an NMI card. I continued doing that through my first year of college. Bought the cool new Apple IIgs for that, then my first Mac (IIcx) afterwards when I finally gave up on my beloved II. I'm happily working away on my MacBookPro. Life is good.
      For some odd reason, this still sticks in my head
      poke 1014,110
      poke 1015,165
      makes your & key do a "CATALOG". Lots less typing.
      Beagle Bros actually had a hack that would alternate starting up your two floppy drives to sound like a steam train chugging.
      My cousin used Zoom Grafix to print out a 5x5 foot mickey mouse. Took days on his Epson MX-80 and was much lighter on one side than the other because the ink ribbon was wearing out. They had the Graftrax+ chip added to the printer so they could print actual graphics, not just letters.
      Everybody had a Nibble Notcher to make their disks double-sided.
      I still have an article somewhere describing how to snag the read/write track sector (RWTS) from a protected disk and use that to read a copy protected disk and write it out in unprotected format. Was going to submit to Hardcore Computist but never got around to it.
      I spent hours combing through games to change references from $C030 to $C020 with Inspector so the sound output would go to the cassette port and thus to my boom box.
      I remember the first time I got to see double high-res graphics on an Apple IIe with the extra video RAM. Amazing.
      I gave up getting a pair of cross-country skis for Mask of the Sun, which turned out to be not that great.
      I've forgotten how painful it was to do wordprocessing at 40 colums with no lower case and no spell checker on AppleWriter. I did have a third-party spell checker but it came on 6 disks. So one spell check required flipping in and out a pile of floppies and a lot of waiting. Had to do the Shift Key Mod running a wire from the shift key to the game paddle button to make the shift keys work. How did I ever get those school papers written.
      We had fun pretending that Fire Organ actually matched up with the music we were playing.
      And while I'm geezing, it sure was expensive reading about the 84 Olympics or downloading adventure game walkthroughs via my 300 BAUD Hayes Micromodem II over a long distance call to Compuserve for another $12/hour. Ahh, the good old days.

  5. FTA by FredFredrickson · · Score: 1, Troll

    Nevertheless, Woz, a fan of both Atari arcade games and engineering challenges, came to his friend's rescue. He completed the bulk of the work in about four days, with an efficient design that used far fewer chips than any other Atari arcade game at the time. Atari's engineers were impressed and Jobs received a nice payout and bonus --most of which he kept for himself. Breakout would become another arcade hit for Atari. Turns out, Woz is also behind most of the stuff that Apple pumps out these days. And of course, Jobs keeps the cash.
    --
    Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
  6. Let's not forget... by ivanmarsh · · Score: 4, Informative

    The original Castle Wolfenstein.

    Achtung! Damn exploding treasure chests.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Wolfenstein

    1. Re:Let's not forget... by lord_mike · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or it's successor, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein!

      HALT! KOMMEN ZIE!!

      AUS PASS?

      AUS PASS?

      *fires shot*

      AYEEEEEEEE!!!!

      The best part of the games was, of course, the speech synthesis, which was revolutionary at the time. The games were creatively designed and a lot of fun, though. The only really annoying thing about both the games is when you run into a wall, and the screen totally flops out! I don't understand why that was considered to be a "feature".

      Man, this article is bringing back memories!

    2. Re:Let's not forget... by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

      I remember listening for that damned lockpick noise on wolfenstein while being shot at by Nazi's... ah, the glory of an Apple childhood.

      --
      stuff |
    3. Re:Let's not forget... by nothingtodo · · Score: 1

      One effect I like was that the computer would select a random pitch of the voices, so one guard might have a highpitched voice and another guard would have such a low voice it was hard to understand.

      It was always fun making the man behind the desk put his hands up, and after shooting him, he'd fall forward on the desktop.

      For BCW on the Apple //, if you hit a wall edge, you just stopped the screen blinked. Much better than how the original CW did it.

      --
      -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
    4. Re:Let's not forget... by russellh · · Score: 1

      The original Castle Wolfenstein.

      ahh, yes, the only game that ever game me nightmares, when the SS burst through into a room (after some poor sod was shot)

      --
      must... stay... awake...
  7. The Shit! by olliec420 · · Score: 0

    Oregon Trail!!!!

  8. Elite by Blue+Shifted · · Score: 1

    my favorite 3D space game.

    best feature: autodocking with spacestations.

    1. Re:Elite by flowsnake · · Score: 1

      Elite was first on the Acorn BBC Micro, not the Apple (though some of the code was developed on the earlier Acorn Atom). You can download many Elite ports from the website of Ian Bell, one of the two authors: http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/. The Archimedes port was clearly the best, of course :)

    2. Re:Elite by Colourspace · · Score: 1

      There was special feature on Elite in this months Retro Gamer (UK publication). Very interesting stuff if you were a fan on any platform, with (seperate) interviews with both Braben and Bell. Strangely they are not on speaking terms anymore, but no one seems to know why...

  9. Original > Cracked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Another benefit of this piracy is that much of the software archived today at online repositories are the cracked versions.'"
    Utter balderdash! Imagine if the only version of the Mona Lisa we had was one that someone had helpfully taken a paintbrush to. Archive both by all means, but don't give out that not having a copy of the original is somehow beneficial!
  10. Can't we get the name right? by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's an Apple ][ - those brackets are absolutely necessary. Trust me.

    Now get off my lawn, and don't come back until you can code in 6502 machine language hex codes - I don't want any of you assembly language sissies hanging around here.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Can't we get the name right? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Remember how we used to laugh at 6502c coders who couldn't make the box squawk on a 6502 - 8086 and 8088 chipsets were lame, and we thought nothing of popping open a Timex-Sinclair to get at the board and probe it.

      Ah, hex. A1B2C3D4E5. F!

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Can't we get the name right? by Gothmolly · · Score: 0

      CALL -151

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    3. Re:Can't we get the name right? by smitty97 · · Score: 1

      unless its a //e or //c

      --
      mod me funny
    4. Re:Can't we get the name right? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1


      In those days I liked to go into a store that was selling Apple ][ machines and type in a short program in hex codes that printed a random character to the screen and clicked the speaker, in a tight loop, so the screen would fill with scrolling garbage while the machine emitted a buzzing sound.

      I feel bad about it now.

    5. Re:Can't we get the name right? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Hex? Meh, over on the C64 and Vic 20 we spent the day coding in decimal.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    6. Re:Can't we get the name right? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Much as how correctly writes C=64.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    7. Re:Can't we get the name right? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Or Apple //c, ][e, II+, etc.

      I hope I remember them correctly.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    8. Re:Can't we get the name right? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Eh, that's not really malevolent, don't feel guilty. They'd just put it down to some pesky geek kid and reset it.

      More annoying to put a delay in the program that simulates the default BASIC prompt (or whatever), does nothing for three or four minutes and *then* makes a horrible sound- and prints an error message designed to scare the technophobe sales people and customers.

      Or you could have it do this when the first inquisitive customer presses a key. You, obviously, would be observing from a plausible safe distance :)

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    9. Re:Can't we get the name right? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      True, that would have been evil-er, but harder to type in the machine code from memory in under 15 seconds :-).

    10. Re:Can't we get the name right? by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      Now get off my lawn, and don't come back until you can code in 6502 machine language hex codes

      Dude - gimme a 00. What a A9 crap. Machine doesn't even C9 to a decent assembler.

    11. Re:Can't we get the name right? by nothingtodo · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's like this. Apple ][ Apple ][+ Apple /// Apple //e Apple //c et al You know you had a good day when your Apple crashed into the monitor and you ran 3D0G and you still had DOS 3.3 loaded.

      --
      -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
    12. Re:Can't we get the name right? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the IIGS.

    13. Re:Can't we get the name right? by elFisico · · Score: 1

      CALL -151 OMG, you just touched something deep inside my memories... long lost, but fond memories... and I now turn very emotional and will have to hug somebody for that deep feelings that arise in me... *sigh* *snif*

    14. Re:Can't we get the name right? by Zaphod-AVA · · Score: 1

      c600g

      Nya!

  11. I remember... by dwiget001 · · Score: 1

    Nine Princes in Amber game on an Apple IIe. Basically, slides show, text with options for you to take related to the text. Was a cool game for me, knowing the story line of the books.

    1. Re:I Remember... by dosius · · Score: 1

      Yep.

      My Apple //e came from a public library. Got plenty of software though I tend to emulate since it's more convenient... Wrote a few shit games in fpbasic back in the 80s and 90s, although I'll admit gwbasic is hella nicer.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
  12. My #1 game by caywen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Aztec all the way, baby! That game was fun *because* of the bugs. I loved walking the Indiana Jones dude on top of the water, on top of alligators, and using grenades to create garbled spider sprites running around. Sea Dragon was a kick, too.. SEEEAAAA DRAGOOON! Speaker modulation on the Apple IIe done right.

    1. Re:My #1 game by caywen · · Score: 2, Informative

      FYI, I like the AppleWin emulator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleWin Also, lots of old Apple II software (.DSK images) here: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/

    2. Re:My #1 game by SengirV · · Score: 1

      Aztek #1 Great game

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

  13. Wrong category? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't the icon next to this story be a big Monty Python foot?

  14. Favorite emulator... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm curious how many got into programming because of ...

      * "I wonder how this game works..." or
      * "How do I remove the copy protection..."
      * "How do I cheat..." ;-) The 6502 was a nice CPU where one person could not only memorize all the opcodes, but understand the whole machine.

    I'm a little biased *cough*, but there is a a half-decent emulator (with mockingboard support) available at http://applewin.berlios.de/

    Gaming genres were defined in the '80s. I would highly recommend checking these out:

    * Anything by Br0derbund! (Lode Runner, Drol, Spare Change, Captain Goodnight, Carmen Sandiago)
    * Ultima series
    * Anything by the "Beagle Bros" for just plain hacking fun

    --
    *C600G

    1. Re:Favorite emulator... by goldspider · · Score: 1

      On behalf of the Ministry of Truth and the entire loyal Ultima fan base, Ultima IX never happened. It is an un-game. Please update your records accordingly.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    2. Re:Favorite emulator... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had an apple ][ when I was younger.
      When I first got it, I did not know anyone else with one, or could afford any games.
      So I began doing some programming, in basic and a little machine code for the bits like sprites that basic was too slow for. Once I could get hold of cracked games though, I stopped programming altogether, as the games were more fun.

      Now, I'm a famous musician with a drug problem. I wonder if there is any connection.

    3. Re:Favorite emulator... by flowsnake · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how many got into programming because of ... * "I wonder how this game works..." or * "How do I remove the copy protection..." * "How do I cheat..." ;-) The 6502 was a nice CPU where one person could not only memorize all the opcodes, but understand the whole machine. I quite agree. Maybe modern proto-geeks would do well to play with something like the XGameStation http://www.xgamestation.com/. Simple enough to understand every part, complex enough to do interesting things. Much easier to remember the 6502 opcodes http://www.6502.org/tutorials/6502opcodes.html including the undocumented stuff than modern x86 http://developer.intel.com/design/pentiumii/manuals/243191.htm. And the memory sizes of computers of that era made it easy to poke around to find cheats.
    4. Re:Favorite emulator... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Loved Beagle Bros. The other thing that I loved was Nibble magazine. Lots of interesting programs to type in and my favorite was Sandy Mossberg's disassembly column where he took us through the ROM, DOS, ProDOS and eventually the GS toolbox.
      And it is still around sorta http://www.nibblemagazine.net/

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    5. Re:Favorite emulator... by LatencyKills · · Score: 1

      Wow, you just totally blew my mind by mentioning the Beagle Bros... Anyone remember a tank game called Bolo? Interesting side note: there was a gladiator game of sorts called Bilestoad that was so bloody (in 8 bit color low res) that parents groups wailed about it even then. The more things change... But to stay on topic, I'm one of those people who learned early programming by trying to cheat on games (no trainers back then). I had a book called "What's Where in your Apple 2) that had literally every fixed memory location in the machine and what it linked to. Awesome book for a burgeoning programmer.

      --
      Jealously hoarding mod points since 2007.
    6. Re:Favorite emulator... by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      The first serious program I ever wrote was a game for the Apple ][+.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    7. Re:Favorite emulator... by Thrashing+Rage · · Score: 1

      An excellent site for people like me who stuck with the Apple II//][ line when the IIgs came out is the http://freetoolsassociation.com/. It's the FTA's site, they're from the demo scene back in the IIgs days, along with an EXCELLENT activeX or downloadable emulator. Not to mention some great disc images from back in the day. Worth checking out for any Apple II fan.

    8. Re:Favorite emulator... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah! I almost forgot all about Nibble!! Nibble brings back memories! My librarian must of hated me, because I always had like half of them checked out at one time! It was a blast reading the disassembly columns and learning how things worked under the hood. "Beneath Apple DOS" was another great read. Ahh, when the days of writing your own sector editor made you a man ;-)

      I still remember the "fast" DOS's like Pronto Dos, Diversi Dos, etc. I never did figure out how they were able to get their speed ups -- too busy playing & hacking games!

    9. Re:Favorite emulator... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      One of my highlights of my youth was getting an official Beagle Bros "Peeks and Pokes" chart. Even had the 16 Double Hi-Res colors printed in color! lol

      I remember Bolo -- fun tank game! That was a real PITA to figure out the collision detection and cheat on that one! Ha!

      I also remember Bilestoad. It was a top-down, pseudo 3D beat-em-up. I never was any good at it, so found it to be a little monotomous.

      I'm one of the programmers who got into computers for all 3 reasons previously mentioned. You're right about trainers! We made our own!

      I never had that book. Will have to check it out!

    10. Re:Favorite emulator... by code4fun · · Score: 1

      It was a lot easier to change things with a hex editor than spend hours trying to build up the characters. I got more things done that way. It was also fun to figure out what they meant. Yeah, Apple is the reason why I got into computing. My first game I ever played was Oregon Trail at school. I was hooked! ;-)

    11. Re:Favorite emulator... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      RTFA.. the article mentions Bilestoad & shows a snapshot.

    12. Re:Favorite emulator... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh... good ol' C600G.

      PR#6

    13. Re:Favorite emulator... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      VERY COOL !

      The Peeks n Pokes chart brings back memories!

      Mod parent up as informative.

    14. Re:Favorite emulator... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learning how to create images in hex and then being able to manipulate them (rotating them, etc.) from
      a BASIC program was cool.
      peek and poke and call changed everything.
      Inline assembly/machine language should be available in all scriptable languages. :-)

      As far as games go:
      Choplifter and Wizardry kicked ass...Dung Beetles was pretty fun too....

  15. Confessions of a "pirate" by digitalcowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My first computer was an Apple IIc. I came from a lower middle class family and it was a sacrifice for my mother to buy the machine for me second-hand. She did it because she recognized my passion and wanted me to have the opportunity to pursue it. But there was no way my family could afford to buy any software, really, much less games at $50 a pop.

    Over the course of a couple of years I "acquired" two disk files full of software, much of it games. I paid for blank disks out of money I earned mowing lawns and such. I also accumulated a stack of magazines mostly donated by a teacher who took an interest in my interest and whose husband had an Apple II and a couple subscriptions.

    Long story short, I'm running two IT-based businesses today and I'm grateful for a mother that cared, a teacher (and her husband) that cared and "pirate" software. No one lost anything from my "piracy" because there was absolutely ZERO chance that I ever would have been able to buy any of the software or half of the magazines that I had available to me back then.

    All of that combined has defined the life I now lead and today I both give away software under OSS licenses and willingly pay for any commercial software that I use.

    1. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by heinousjay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one lost anything from my "piracy" because there was absolutely ZERO chance that I ever would have been able to buy any of the software or half of the magazines that I had available to me back then.

      Your reasoning doesn't follow at all. You gained from your piracy, yes, but the copyright holder lost out on their right to profit from the distribution of the software. The fact that you see it as a net positive for yourself doesn't legitimize anything. Your greed for entertainment in no way trumps the rights of others.

      Of course, I'll be modded down for pointing out the fact that piracy isn't right even though the pirate benefits. C'est la Slashdot.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    2. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by riseoftheindividual · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hear all that. I "pirated" almost everything back then too. I was a poor kid and I had no money after saving up for half the cost of the computer(which my mom and grandparents matched for the other half). Those game companies didn't lose any sales to me, you can't get blood from a turnip afterall. In fact, Origin in particular would go on to benefit long term, as I played ULtima I, II, and III for free, and when IV came out, I had a job and bought a copy of that and V-VI later(and I would in turn influence my friends to buy copies as we all raced to win it first). I would never have bought those games later had I not played the first three installments, and there was no way I could have played them had I not been able to get free copies. In fact, getting hooked on games by being able to play them for free as a kid, directly led to all the money I've spent on games over the years since entering the work force.

      That's one reason I'm convinced the "R" in "RIAA" stands for Retarded when they sue young people of poor or working class parents. Those are their future customers and that's a very shoddy way to prime them for sales when they finally come into their own money. Had Origin or an industry body backed by them pulled the same stunt on me, I'd have grown up hating them, and would have made it a point not to never give them a dime of my money.

      --
      Patriot - A fan of expanding government power and spending while not wanting to pay higher taxes.
    3. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Wylfing · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the copyright holder lost out on their right to profit from the distribution of the software

      There is no right to profit.

      --
      Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    4. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by riseoftheindividual · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but the copyright holder lost out on their right to profit from the distribution of the software

      How? How does a copyright holder lose their right to profit if a copy goes to someone who couldn't buy it in the first place? There is no loss there. That's absurd. Where's the loss?

      --
      Patriot - A fan of expanding government power and spending while not wanting to pay higher taxes.
    5. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by digitalcowboy · · Score: 1

      Your reading comprehension would likely benefit if you would get your knee-jerk under control. It would also keep you from looking like a logical deficient. You're preaching to me about "reasoning" that "follows"?

      I suspect I'm being trolled, but I never said I was trying to "legitimize anything." I'm not. I don't owe you or them or anybody else any explanation for anything I do, ever. I wasn't motivated by "greed for entertainment" and I never violated anyone's rights to anything.

      You should be modded down for being irrational and for not reading far enough to read the conclusion of my story where everyone wins - me, the commercial software companies, OSS, the generation behind me - EVERYONE. Or, blinded by greed, stupidity and a desire to troll, did you just not care?

      Do you already work for Microsoft or are you just trying to build a comment history for the interview?

    6. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no 'right' to profit either. The market 'decides' if the product is worth the money. In this case, duplication can be done for nothing and is easy for the consumer. Why should he pay? Ideas by themselves are worthless. It's what one does with them that counts. Why do you think software-as-service is being pursued by the vendors?

      The people who think they can build a legal latticework around the flow of ideas simply to make a profit are insane...then again that's why we're headed towards a police state: it's the only way they can have even a fraction of that structure.

    7. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Kineel · · Score: 1

      No one lost anything from my "piracy" because there was absolutely ZERO chance that I ever would have been able to buy any of the software or half of the magazines that I had available to me back then.

      Nice rationalization, so if a thief can't afford a CD it would be fine to steal the CD?

      OTOH, I realize the Hardware companies have profitted immensely from piracy. I contend that half of all Apple ][ (][+ and //x) sales came about due to pirated copies of Visicalc.
      --
      -- Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?
    8. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by riseoftheindividual · · Score: 1

      Nice rationalization, so if a thief can't afford a CD it would be fine to steal the CD?

      Nice comparison. If you steal a CD, you are depriving someone of property and you are indeed depriving them of the right to profit from that property. When you copy software, that does not happen. No one is deprived of anything, unless you were in a position to purchase the software in the first place and you decided you'd rather not pay just cuz you're a cheap bastard.

      I realize the Hardware companies have profitted immensely from piracy

      lmao. There's a switch. Paint the company that creates the market for the software to even be created to be profited from in the first place with dark shades because they profited form piracy. That's rich. I'm going to be laughing for hours at that spin.

      --
      Patriot - A fan of expanding government power and spending while not wanting to pay higher taxes.
    9. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by digitalcowboy · · Score: 1

      No, Mr. Gates. It would not be OK for me to steal anything. That's why I never did. Did you catch the part where I mentioned mowing lawns to make money for blank floppies?

      Damn you greedy people are dense. Does every one and zero look like a dollar sign to you? Is that the perception problem we're dealing with here?

    10. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1
      How does a copyright holder lose their right to profit if a copy goes to someone who couldn't buy it in the first place?


      It is irrelevant whether you could have afforded the product in the first place or not. The fact remains, you have the product, are using the product and have not compensated the person who created the product for their efforts.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    11. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Wordsmith · · Score: 1

      And the creator has no less of the product than he used to. This is why "intellectual property" doesn't really cleanly fit the traditional definition of "property" at all, and why our usual mores surrounding it don't apply well.

      The grandparent is right - there is no "loss." Whether that's material is a matter of great debate. You say because the kid benefited, the creator deserves compensation. The grandparent correctly notes all there has been is gain on the part of the kid, not loss on the part of the creator; it's not a materialistic system - and there was no alternative option in which the creator would have gained. There may, however, be other decent arguments that the creator has been wronged.

    12. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by rhakka · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In other words, the "pirate" in this case got a concrete gain, while the copyright holder lost out only in principle, that someone got something for 'nothing'. Not, of course, that the copyright holder would in any case have gotten ANYTHING, so it's a principle only thing.. and, furthermore, the loss doesn't cost them anything at all. Meanwhile, society has been enriched by another enterprising young mind finding fertile ground for his technical curiousity.

      So society has gained, but of course, that's a bad thing, because dagnabbit, you don't get something fer nothing, you stinking hippies. Yes, it's all very clear.

      Not having absolute control over a market would drive you nuts, being in their position, wouldn't it. that's rough. Maybe you should hang out with some hippies some time.. they have some stuff that might get you to relax a bit and realize it's not ALL about cash flow. A lot is, sure, but not EVERYTHING.

    13. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Sleepy · · Score: 1

      >How does a copyright holder lose their right to profit if a copy goes to someone who couldn't buy it in the first place? There is no loss there. That's absurd. Where's the loss?

      It's kind of like information inflation:

        If EVERYONE learns an IT skill (as opposed to only those who could afford it), then won't rich kids suffer? After all they'll compete with more co-applicants when it comes to their next job.

      You might as well advocate free education for all, and synchronizing public transportation routes with high-tech development zones...

    14. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by zenkonami · · Score: 1

      There is a fundamental problem with this argument.

      CD's use materials which have to be acquired by using tools and labor which have a cost. The material on the CD also requires tools and labor which have a cost. If someone steals the CD, then we say someone has been wronged because physical property, that they can no longer use to profit on, is no longer theirs to sell. But if someone takes intellectual property (non-physical media), then it's fair game because duplication of the media costs virtually nothing.

      Two points here.

      1) Clearly this means the physical CD itself has more value to the consumer than the media on that CD.
      2) The creator of the media, who required tools and expended labor to produce the material, has no rights and deserves no protections for the distribution of his/her efforts, whereas all the people who mined the materials, pressed the CDs, and (yes by this logic) even the record companies who have backed the creation of these materials to begin with, deserve more protections than the original content creator.

      Again, we're in ambiguous territory. I'm glad the original poster was able to benefit from the "piracy" of the material for his computer under his economic circumstances at the time. It is a net benefit for society. However, let's not make the mistake of saying that scarcity of materials alone is the measure of "value." Clearly the poster valued the content.

      I wish we could stop using these (are these straw man?) arguments that because the duplication of the material has little cost then the material itself has little value. Clearly that's not the case, though many Slashdotters would have us believe it's so to justify their ends and means. (I know, I know...I must be new here.)

      If you're going to "steal" the content, then at least acknowledge the creators of said content instead of railing against the distributors. If you can't (or won't) pay them, regardless of the legality, I suggest doing everything you can do to support the content creators who have provided you with such a benefit, whether it's promotion, future purchases, or even an anonymous thanks might be welcome.

      --

      Do You Experiment?
    15. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How? How does a copyright holder lose their right to profit if a copy goes to someone who couldn't buy it in the first place? There is no loss there. That's absurd. Where's the loss?

      Why couldn't they have bought it? Because the were poor? Being poor means you can't afford the things you want. Especially luxury items like games. The world is full of things I can't afford to buy. I can't afford the premium digital cable package with all the movie channels. Does that mean I can split my neighbor's cable and run it into my house, and Time Warner shouldn't mind since I never would have bought it if I had to pay for it?

      I should also point out just for argument's sake, there are degrees of being "poor." A middle class college student on a very limited allowance may claim poverty, but they can raise the money when they need to. I have a lot of friends with fancy computers and high-end entertainment systems who download every game and movie they can get their hands on. Somehow they can afford to spend thousands on the hardware, but when it comes to content they don't have a dime.

      I should also point out I also did what the great-grandparent did, crack and pirate C-64 games, and get the sense he feels a bit of moral ambiguity about it (as do I, of course.) You, however, seem to feel entitled, and that is what I object to.

    16. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      The grandparent correctly notes all there has been is gain on the part of the kid, not loss on the part of the creator

      The OP philosophy is basically one of the Kant's Categorical Imperative. Do we want this "there is no loss of the artist, only gain of the pirate" philosophy universalized? If not, they don't consider it to be right. Taken in that context ("should everybody be able to take non-tangible things without compensating their creator because the creator does not have less of it afterward?") it definitely seems wrong to me.

    17. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Yes, everybody won. Except the copyright holders for the software you pirated. They lost their rights to profit from the distribution of their copyrighted software.

      So yeah, I'll get my kneejerk under control as soon as you get your rationalizations to include rationality.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    18. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How typical--a preachy, pompous troll of a shitpost is ended with the magical "of course I'll be modded down for being so brave and saying this" line, and the bozo gets modded up.

      There's nothing insightful about a holier-than-thou attitude, folks.

      Mod appropriately.

    19. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by loss+angeles · · Score: 1

      How? How does a copyright holder lose their right to profit if a copy goes to someone who couldn't buy it in the first place? There is no loss there. That's absurd. Where's the loss?

      "Couldn't buy it" is a kind of subjective term isn't it? There's "couldn't buy it because he's near-starving in a third world nation", there's "couldn't buy it because his family is low income in a Western World", and there's "couldn't buy because he's a college student on an allowance and he just bought a new laptop."

      I just don't see the last two as justification, but I've certainly heard them used as such. Being poor means you can't afford certain things-- particularly luxury items like games, To tell the truth I don't really even object to the act itself, we've all been young and it certainly is tempting to get something for nothing, but I do object to your sense of entitlement. For the sake of decency at least admit that "piracy" is morally ambiguous at best.

    20. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by richardpaulhall · · Score: 1

      Back in the day indeed. I did the final development and QA testing for a game that was released on the Apple ][ and C=64.

      I was a member of a User's Group and one of the kid pirates offered me a copy! I gave him the entire anti-piracy speil and then told him I worked on the game. Boy, did his face change!

    21. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 1

      These are the same sorts of arguments that were used against public libraries, against tape recorders and VCR's, or people watching Cubs games from the roofs of their houses rather than pay for admission to Wrigley Field. It is the argument of the gatekeeper, not that of the artist.

      You see, the publisher buys an exclusive right to make for-profit copies, and then thinks that right loses value every time a copy is made by somebody other than him. The artist, however, fears obscurity more than loss of profit. Piracy (what we now call warez) was one of the first forms of viral marketing, and companies like Infocom profited from it, as we rushed to buy their tchotchke-packed originals.

      So the grandparent you relied to buys this fallacy, that the publisher holds not merely a right to all commercial copying rights, but rights to profit all viewings period. To him, every time you borrow a book from the library, you're cheating the publisher of a sale.

    22. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 1

      You are approaching this the wrong way. The value of a right to make copies is not like the right to sell a physical product, but like the right to tell a secret. The more people that know the info tidbit, the less valuable the tidbit becomes, yet the pool of those who will recompense the original teller increases.

      Pirate copies merely sped up the process a little, and showed how quickly the value of a right to sell copies can devalue despite efforts to make it harder to repeat the secret verbatim. Once a secret's out, it's out. But here's the kicker: some people who hear the secret this way will recompense the original teller, since they value it and would never had known it existed before then.

    23. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 1

      The problem lies in how you view information. Take a less complex form, say a haiku. What if a company had the only right to print the haiku: would you be stealing if you wrote it in a handmade greeting card? How about if everybody repeated it like this?

      Information is not property. It does not behave like property. It grows with each retelling, with each copy that is made. You can't even call it forgery or plagiarised goods, since there is no attempt to foist it off as the original. The poem is repeated, and through it, the artist gains a wider audience than if only those who bought the book from the publisher could read it. Many will even thank the publisher by buying the book anyway.

      Programs are not physical objects, but information. Information can be valuable, like trade secrets. But secrets cannot remain secret forever, and secrets are the opposite of what an artist wants (yes, I consider game designers artists).

    24. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by brkello · · Score: 1

      *shrug* Still doesn't make it right. You could still be where you are if you didn't do those things. It is just another justification after the fact. I am not innocent of this either...when I was younger I did it as well. But I still realize that what I did was wrong and don't try to justify it because I have a Masters in comp sci.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    25. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by Kineel · · Score: 1

      No the problem is entirely with raising a generation of people who have seen countless friends call theft something else to quell their quilt. I couldn't afford it so I wouldn't have bought it anyway so I was justified in stealing it. You made money to purchase blank floppies, and your neighbor made money to buy the lock picks so he could come into your house and steal your computer.

      Argue all you want, but any rationalization of theft is NOT a defense.

      I'm not here to help you feel better or worse about your past actions. I hope to educate other kids, like I have educated my own.

      --
      -- Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?
    26. Re:Confessions of a "pirate" by whogben · · Score: 1

      I'm still not clear on just how they "lost their rights to profit" - first, even if we assume that among a persons natural, unalienable rights is the right to profit (and I think its charitable to be even considering this scenario), how have they lost their rights to profit? Are they now incapable of selling the software, or making a profit on it? It sounds like what you're proposing is actually a reversed version, that they have a right to prevent others from profiting from it (in this case the OP). A right to exclusivity, the violation of which is hurting them here somehow, rather than, in this case, potentially benefitting them later on (the OP mentions he now buys software) and benefiting society (well, who knows if the OP benefits society, by why not if he pays his taxes?)

  16. Cracking was a fun thing to do by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And most of us who did it would add improvements which we sent to the game authors.

    I remember having 172k of RAM (on a 48k Apple II+) that I used as a RAM drive to run programs 1000 times faster, with a dual floppy setup so I could have a data disk and a program disk.

    And it was fun creating the world's first play-by-mail role-playing games on it, doing nutso things like using word-processing macros to churn out character stories for each player, or automated D & D, Traveller, and other game system character generation.

    Until Bill G rolled around this artificial IP concept really was just regarded as code hoarding. Copy protection was not just a challenge, it was rude, and you were honor-bound (back then I'd say honour-bound, since I was in Canada) to crack it - and then distro copies with the add-ons you improved the original game with.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  17. Ah, the memories by mr_josh · · Score: 1

    My grandma gave me her Apple //c and little 9" green screen monitor when I was in second grade. There was a store in the local mall that sold shareware, they had bins and bins of 5 1/4" floppies full of Apple ][ software. I had so many cool games for that machine. I had that before I had any game consoles or anything like that, and really, I played computer games way more than my consoles. I got Flight Simulator II for my birthday one year, then I got a joystick for that machine, too. Geez, nostalgia high.

  18. What? No A Bard's Tale? by TheWoozle · · Score: 1

    Blasphemy!

    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
  19. The joys of Apple // piracy by themushroom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some years ago the author of the Atarisoft rendition of "Mario Bros" for the Apple // was writing about the title in a Usenet post, saying that Atarisoft never released the game yet it was leaked and everyone had it... and for that reason, he was still able to list it on his resume. :) That's gotta be weird, everyone knows your work yet you didn't get paid properly for it.

    Loderunner definitely made the Apple // a gaming platform, as did Wizardry.

    1. Re:The joys of Apple // piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's gotta be weird, everyone knows your work yet you didn't get paid properly for it. I thought they called that "open source"?
    2. Re:The joys of Apple // piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not Apple //, it's Apple ][ or Apple ][+. You use the // only to apply to the later Apple //e and Apple //c, not by itself. Now get off my lawn, n00bs.

  20. Text based adventure games by GoldMace · · Score: 1

    I recall playing several really fun text adventure games when it was my turn to use one of the two computers in the whole school. There was one that went something like, you are in the woods and low on food, would you like to hunt? What would you like to hunt for, deer, or foxes? Oh, you didn't find any deer. You have Persished. Game Over. Anyone else remember this game, or know what it was called?

    1. Re:Text based adventure games by nierd · · Score: 1

      I believe it was Oregon adventure - you played a wagon making a trip to Oregon - it was pretty popular on the Apple platform in schools as it was 'educational' software. It seemed like the only thing most schools would let you play were Carmen SanDiego or Oregon Adventure... At least I had a teacher in grade school that let me play Enchanter - that was a fun game :)

    2. Re:Text based adventure games by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the hunting section of Oregon Trail, which just about every school who had at least one Apple computer owned. Sadly, it is still one of the few games for the Apple ][ which the copyright holder refuses to release for free to the community.

  21. Double Sided Disks by PhillC · · Score: 1

    The Apple IIc was the first computer I ever put my greasy little fingers on. I learned to create some Basic games from books - oh how I miss Goto 10.

    The picture in the article of Ultima IV takes me back. So many hours of my early teens lost playing that, Castle Wolfenstein and The Bard's Tale. I was addicted to the Bard's Tale, the glorious green screen of it!

    Who else remembers making 5 1/4 inch disks double sided! Hell yeah. How cool was that. A pair of scissors or hole punch and suddenly you had twice as much storage!

    --
    Brought to you by the author of such childrens' classics as "Some Kittens can Fly!" and "All Dogs go to Hell."
  22. I Remember... by Gallenod · · Score: 1

    ...North Atlantic '86 and The Bard's Tale (I and II). They were the games that made me buy my first Apple (a IIc). I played them on a IIe in the library almost every day until it closed. I finally decided if I was going to save the world from Soviet or magical domination, I'd better get a computer at home so I could devote myself to the cause.

    In my case, playing games led to buying a computer, which led to an interest in how computers worked, which led to a change in career from administrator to self-taught computer hobbyist to organizational computer guru, a masters degree in information resource management, and a whole new career over the last 15 years as a technology manager. All becuase I got hooked on a couple of computer games.

    I wonder just how many other computer-addicted people (e.g. /.ers) were snared by similar "gateway" software?

    Oh well -- at least I don't sell PDAs on street corners near schools.

    --

    TLR

    A man no more knows his destiny than a tea leaf knows the history of the East India Company
  23. Re:Original Cracked by riseoftheindividual · · Score: 1

    but don't give out that not having a copy of the original is somehow beneficial!

    it is if the original required some verification to use, like looking up something on a page in a manual that no one has anymore.

    --
    Patriot - A fan of expanding government power and spending while not wanting to pay higher taxes.
  24. re your sig by 74nova · · Score: 1

    no it isnt. its like insisting that you not put dog crap in it.

    --
    use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
    1. Re:re your sig by cromar · · Score: 1

      Give me a break. We should all be speaking Old English by that logic, which is utterly ridiculous. And look at you, you have no place to talk. You're not even using proper punctuation or capitalization! Ridiculous!!

  25. Phantasie by acvh · · Score: 1

    Phantasie was one my early favorite games on the C64, and for the first time I got to see the box in the article. I had a cracked copy and photocopied instructions, and played it for what seems like a long, long time.

  26. Hardware piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of people used to build/assemble clones of the Apple II. Apple solved that problem with the Mac. No cloned Macs, at least I never saw one.

    IBM, on the other hand, published the Reference Manual. Anybody could build a PC clone. The result was that the PC and its clones became ubiquitous. Similarly, the most pirated software used to be MS-DOS, which became the standard. It makes one think that if Apple hadn't been so successful at stemming piracy, they might have done a lot better financially.

    1. Re:Hardware piracy by puto · · Score: 1

      Get it straight. Yes there were many clones of the Apple 2. But there were cloned macs as well with Apple Licensed roms, PowerComputing being, one but there were several others. The Mac was not a problem solver for clones. jobs canceled the program when he returned to Apple, or rather raised the prices on the licenses to the manufactuers, to where they would not be able to compete on price points with Apple branded products. As for the PC clones, the reference manual was handy, but some guys reverse engineered the Phoenix bios and people were able to build clones to the pc. I would say dos was pirated heavily, but MS cut a deal with MS that was less costly than CPM.

      --
      The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  27. Re:Original Cracked by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    Imagine if the only version of the Mona Lisa we had was one that someone had helpfully taken a paintbrush to.
    You do realize that digital works can be copied perfectly and the only change that was made was to unlock it. Your analogy makes no sense. A better one would be if somebody took the curtain down from in front of the Mona Lisa so everybody could actually see it.
  28. Re:Original Cracked by neapolitan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know what you are saying, and agree with you to a large extent, but as a former 6502 hacker I am not sure you understand what you are talking about.

    The majority of the copy protection routines on the Apple //e depended on nuances of a combination of hardware and software not just software. Disk reading routines were able to be controlled in software -- copy protected games would not include standard apple "DOS" but essentially invent their own disk reading routines. In order to copy a disk, you would have to get extra memory, try to load the program into it using its own disk reading routine, find the starting location of the program, remap this into a format that could fit on a normal disk, and then save it back to a disk (using a standard DOS loaded into your extra memory.) Some methods of protection altered the write timing cycles on the disk, varying sector timing / size, etc. In general you would need, to unprotect disks, a hardware-modified //e with extra memory.

    Something that changes the read/write timing of a disk would be very, very difficult to emulate correctly, 100% of the time. A good fraction of copy-protected files could not even be made into a standard .dsk image, and thus would be most likely lost as the original magnetic media fades -- an emulator built to emulate the nuances of the hardware would probably never be built, as even getting a method to accurately read some standardized format of the original magnetic media would be difficult / impossible. Thus the original article writer's statement is correct, whether he knew the details or not...

    --
    Slashdotter, ID #101. UIDs are in binary, right?
  29. Your timeline is way off... by mbessey · · Score: 1

    contemporaneous with the C64 in the Apple stable was the IIGS.

    Uh, no - the C64 was released in 1982, and the Apple IIGS wasn't released until 1986 (that's right - two years after the first Macintosh). The Apple contemporaries to the C64 were the Apple II+ and Apple IIe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64

    Which is not to say that the Apple II wasn't an important gaming platform, but by the early 80's it was already showing its age.
  30. Re:Original Cracked by nacturation · · Score: 1

    Another benefit of this piracy is that much of the software archived today at online repositories are the cracked versions.'" Utter balderdash! Imagine if the only version of the Mona Lisa we had was one that someone had helpfully taken a paintbrush to. Archive both by all means, but don't give out that not having a copy of the original is somehow beneficial! Though in this case, having the original with piracy measures intact is like having the original Mona Lisa locked in a safe that nobody knows the combination to.
    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  31. Name of Helicopter game - please help me name it by portforward · · Score: 1

    There was a game that I used to play on my Laser 128 (Apple IIc clone). I flew a helicopter, and was fighting against another helicopter as well as providing air support for my troops. The game would 2-D scroll side to side. I could drop 5 men from my helicopter paratrooper style, and there were floating balloons with cables. The helicopter had to "escort" tanks, antiaircraft trucks, "vans" and infantry

  32. My favorite game by TheWizardTim · · Score: 1

    I always loved:

    10 Print "Hello World"
    20 Goto 10

    That was the best game ever.

    1. Re:My favorite game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop - you had me at '10.'

  33. The Apple // has always been teh suq by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, no. the apple // was the worse machine ever. Who writes this crap?

  34. Many Computer Game concepts by joeflies · · Score: 1

    I think that to talk about Apple's role in gaming, it might be useful to abstract some of the concepts that stemmed from Apple's popularity and ubiquity.

    It wasn't just "video games" that made Apple great - it was the creation of "Home computer games", i.e. games that couldn't be played on the standalone devices or early consoles of the time.

    For example:

    Educational games emerged as a subgenre as part of the deals Apple did to make computers available to school.

    RPGs were available before, but they flourished on the Apple II with Wizardry, Ultima, Bard's Tale, Might & Magic.

    I think that it could be arguable that Real-Time Strategy games owe a debt of gratitutde to Rescue Raiders.

    Graphical adventures can trace their roots to Sierra's early efforts such as Wizard & the Princess.

    There were a whole group of poly-bagged games that pre-dated the boxed software that isn't as widely documented. I sometimes wish I could play Artillery on the Apple II again if I only spent some time trying to get the emulators and Dos 3.3 disks working.

    Piracy on Apple II was rampant, but I think that was largely because that piracy was one of the areas where learning about how hardware & software interact created a generation of computer engineers. A 7th grader learning about how filesystems work and how software controls a disk drive? Common place when the kid was motivated to copy a game. I don't want to make a moral claim that it's right, but you can't deny how many engineers of my generation have a similar story.

    Info on disk protection was widely available - getting Hardcore Computist magazine every month was a real treat, learning new things about how hardware & software worked. You didn't get a crack to download - you had to dig into the disk editors yourself and learn why machine code edits made the game playable. Great fun from the old days.

  35. Anyone remember the ZORK Clone SMIRK? by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 1

    Does anyone remember the the ZORK Clone SMIRK? I could never find my way out of the maze. Anyone know where I can find this clone?

  36. Re:What? No A Bard's Tale? by cromar · · Score: 1

    Oh fuck yeah! Bard's Tale was kick ass.

  37. Not Just Game, Engineering Also. by YuuShiSann · · Score: 1

    I use Apple][ for my engineering project. I first learnt machine code and assembly of 6502 then I started I cross compile code in Z80 and using I/O interface card as a digital logic analyser and eventually I created another Z80 computer. The simplicity of Apple][ hardware taught me a lot about PC interface. If you know this, you will quickly understand how XT, AT buses work. Besides the bus size getting bigger, the control signals are largely the same. Without the affordable Apple][ at that time, I will not be an engineer today.

  38. Two words.. by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 1

    Oregon Trail. (ftw!)

  39. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  40. Rescue Raiders by sxltrex · · Score: 1
    I played it too--fantastic game!


    http://www.mobygames.com/game/rescue-raiders

  41. My brain hurts! by Tony · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anything by the "Beagle Bros" for just plain hacking fun

    Ah! That took me back so fast, my brain is whiplashed. Painful.

    I loved the Beagle Bros. They had some of the *coolest* hacks. I learned more about the Apple system from them than from anywhere else. Between Beagle Bros and the Sweet-16 mini-assembler (no more hand assembling! yes!), the Apple ][ was the *greatest* platform for budding programmers.

    When people claim Microsoft started the computer revolution, I laugh gently, pat them on the head, and say, "Ah, you're so *cute*." The Apple ][ started it, followed by all the others: Commodore, Atari, Tandy, etc. *Those* were the days.

    Not that I'd go back. I do like where we're at today (though we should've been here 10 years ago).

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
  42. Microsoft's Game by Morky · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember Olympic Decathalon for Apple ][ from Microsoft? That game must have destroyed thousands of keyboards.

  43. Piracy? by pdxp · · Score: 1
  44. Ah, the memories.. by neo-mkrey · · Score: 1

    Many an nour of 'study hall' in 8th grade was spent playing Sierra's Mystery House and Wizard and the Princess (d*mn snake!).

  45. Not just Game, Engineering Also. by YuuShiSann · · Score: 1

    I used Apple][ for my engineering project. It is my first computer. I learnt a lot from it. I learnt Basic, machine code, assembly, I/O signaling and eventually I could cross compile Z80 code and using an I/O card as a digital signal analyser to design and create my first Z80 computer. Without this affordable computer, I will not be an engineer today. Game is my first incentive leading me to something more interesting.

  46. Re:Original Cracked by Hatta · · Score: 1

    What good are the original games if you can't play them because they're copy-protected? What good is a phone call if you're unable to speak?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  47. Ultima II by tech10171968 · · Score: 1

    Heh, Ultima II pretty much rocked my world in high school (yes, I know I'm dating myself). I wasted nearly an entire summer glued to a green monitor while hacking away in some far-off dungeon. Loderunner also consumed a lot of time I could have been using for stuff like homework. I even missed BASIC programming; it may have been a relatively slow, high-level language but it was so easy to understand that even an idiot could pick up the basics (no pun intended) in a relatively short time.

    --
    This space for rent!
    1. Re:Ultima II by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I tried playing Ultima II not too long ago. I stuck around on the overworld for too long, and killed all the creatures on the first continent without getting a boat. There must be some limit to the monsters in the overworld because it didn't create any new monsters, and the islands were full of them. Nothing I could do about it, so I deleted my character and started over. But the overworld was exactly the same! All the monsters still stuck on islands and none for me to kill. Frustrated, I gave up. Maybe I'll give it another shot when I get home.

      BTW, what does everyone recommend for an Apple II emulator under linux? IIRC xapple2 required my X server to be run at 8 bit color. I'm not sure what was wrong with KEGS but I couldn't get past character creation with it. I think I ended up running AppleWin under wine.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  48. Wizardry I, II, III by DreamCoder · · Score: 1

    Gotta love Lode Runner, Choplifter, Karateka, and Conan, but my top billing has to go to Wizardry. That game was unbelievably addictive!

  49. What I Remember... by EXTomar · · Score: 1

    In no particular order:

    - Telengard but who knows how far I got or even if I made any progress period. This was one stood out in my memories because it was far more open ended than anything else I played at the time.
    - Agent USA was austenisbly a way to learn US geography by battling "fuzbodies" across the country. For some reason I remember pitched battles in Denver, CO.
    - Ultima IV was something I definitely remember beating...
    - Ultima V was even better! Yay for throwing magic axes diagonally!
    - Wings of Fury was unique in the huge amount of play. Trying to sink the last ships took a lot of hits.

    Some of these games, like the Ultima ones where multiple disks where if you had two drives it made things easier. One thing that stood out for these games is how underpowered the graphics and sound was for these games where the Commedore 64 versions of the same games often looked and sounded better. That is unless you had the "Phasor" sound card. I can't recall if any of these games used or was helped by the "80 Column Text Card". Especially for a game like Wings of Fury a two button analog controller is a must have.

  50. Foundly remember the Apple ][ by Is0m0rph · · Score: 1

    Foundly remember the Apple ][. Programming it in BASIC in 6-8th grade, playing Wizardy, Ultima 2/3/4/5, Phantasie, Castle Wolf, ahh the good old days. Think my parents paid about $1200 for a //e with 128k and 2 floppy drives. I also took part in the "scene" with my Apple Cat modem and PPP sites for transferring the warez.

  51. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by ScottyKUtah · · Score: 1

    That game was "Rescue Raiders".

    Wiki Link..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_raiders

    --
    He who laughs last is at 300 baud.
  52. L0DE RUNNER!! by bruceg · · Score: 1

    I used to dream up new L0de Runner boards! That game rocked on the Apple //e. Snack Attack was popular in our coaches office. I still have some of my original 5-1/4" floppies of this stuff, and they still run fine. The disks still hold data just fine, yet my 1 year old AIT tapes, fail often. An elephant never forgets!

  53. My reply by ToastyKen · · Score: 2, Funny

    A946 9900 00A9 6999 0001 A972 9900 02A9 7399 0003 A974 9900 04A9 2199 0005

    (I think that should print "First!", but my 6502 machine code is rusty. :\)

    1. Re:My reply by ps_inkling · · Score: 1

      LDA #$46
      STY $0000,Y
      LDA #$69
      STA $0001,Y
      LDA #$72
      STA $0002,Y
      LDA #$73
      STA $0003,Y
      LDA #$74
      STA $0004,Y
      LDA #$21
      STA $0005,Y
      Assuming the display started at memory address zero (and the Y register is zero), this would work. If this was from rusty memory, color me impressed. Much better than myself. If you used 85 instead of 99 (STA zpage instead of STA Absolute,Y) it could be shorter.

      Using some crib notes (memory map and an opcode reference from the Apple Programmer's Handbook (shrunk and laminated, never leave home without it)), here's a smaller version.

      6000: A0 00 B9 10 60 F0 06 99 00 04 C8 D0 F5 60 00 00
      6010: 46 69 72 73 74 20 50 6F 73 74 21 00 00 00 00 00
      For the pedantics that point out that I miscalculated the relative jumps, byte me. Too lazy to find an Apple II emulator and dig around for ROMs.

      This evening, I'll be on the IIgs playing Bolo. Or Karateka.

    2. Re:My reply by ToastyKen · · Score: 1

      I'm so sad that I only started going to college (and thus having a fast Internet connection) in 1996, when Bolo was already dying. I managed to play a few games online in my first few weeks of college. Other than that, I only managed to play against my friends via LAN. That was such an amazing game.

    3. Re:My reply by ToastyKen · · Score: 1

      And I admit to taking a glance at my recently discovered notebook with 6502 instructions in hex. They were notes I jotted down in 5th grade when I was playing around with machine code on my Apple ][+. Why is it that now, some 20 years later, I feel stupider than I did in 5th grade? High-level languages have taken all the fun out of programming. :P

  54. Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe by dargon · · Score: 1

    and then there was SWotL, the game whose acronym sounds vaguely like it should be a porno :) I'd really love to see a remake of the game utilizing todays hardware.

  55. 5th grade, 1982... by logicassasin · · Score: 1

    I got sent to a school for gifted kids starting in the 5th grade (http://www.spsd.net/Handley/index.htm) and in a little room across the hall from the math classroom, was a pair of Apple ][+ machines. First time I had ever seen a REAL computer in person. There was a crowd of guys (all 6th graders) huddled around one machine playing a game called "Pulsar". It was similar to "Star Castle", except your ship moved strictly in a circular motion around the shielded ship in the center. On the second machine was a kid typing up his own little app with a book on Basic next to him. From that moment forward, I spent all of my free time (or as much of it as they allowed me to) in the computer room. A week after I saw the Apples, I took home every manual we had that came with those machines and studied them cover to cover. These were EXCELLENT reference material with code examples in basic and ML.

    One month to the day I wrote my first little program. Then another, and another, then I bought graphing paper and started making images on the screens, which eneded up as shape tables, which by the end of the year turned into moving objects.

    After that, I was obsessed with writing my own games, with was only magnified when my mother bought an Atari 800XL for me for christmas a couple of years later. By high school, I had written games in not only basic, but in 6502 ML thanks to books by Compute! publishing.

    To this day I still have thoughts of taking one of my old games and reworking it to something modern. I may do it too.

    --
    Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
  56. Re:Original Cracked by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    Um... do you remember some of the protection mechanisms used on those games? I had one floppy where they physically damaged a sector after writing the game... the disk was not copyable to another medium as that sector always generated a read error, but the game wouldn't play without that sector existing.

    Without the cracked version, you wouldn't have an archived version of that game once the original medium failed. I ended up snagging a cracked version when my disk finally died.

    The equivalent would be having a version of the Mona Lisa that couldn't be photographed or copied in any other way without defeating some sort of anticopying device. You still have the original, but any copies, by definition, are cracked copies. Same goes for many of these games. It's not that not having a copy of the original is beneficial, it's that having a cracked copy that can be duplicated is beneficial... if nobody had cracked it, the game might no longer be available.

  57. Akalabeth, Asteroids, Space Invaders etc. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Not nearly as many as would ultimately come out for the C-64 but we're talking about three years earlier and a much smaller market. We're talking about eight years before the C-64 game market was so crowded that it imploded.

    There were many good games for the Apple when the market was Apple ][s, TRS-80s, Pets and Compu-Colors. It was the gamers choice. Built in 'high res' graphics (two pages with the expanded memory), game controllers and basic sound. Makes me want to fire the old girl up.

    I bet Bill Budge is still living the high life on all those great games from back in the day.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Akalabeth, Asteroids, Space Invaders etc. by demallien2 · · Score: 1

      heh, I'm a bit laste with this post, but, ohmigod, you know about Compucolors!!! That's how I got into computers. My father bought a Compucolour II waaaay back - 1980/81-ish IIRC.

      As the Compucolor had very few games, if I wanted to play any, I had to write them myself. Being a 7 yr old at the time, that meant adapting games that appeared in magazines for other computers. My father also had access to Apple IIes and IIcs that he would bring home from work, so that's how I got my gaming fixes, but in between those weekends with the Apple, I was programming rather than playing...

  58. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by Holophax · · Score: 1

    Rescue Raiders

    Great game.

  59. DS usage by bigredradio · · Score: 1

    Not to mention 'hacking' the 5-1/4 SS floppies to get cheap DS usage. You mean 'hacking' with a hole punch? Yeah, did that too.
  60. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    armor alley

  61. Re:Original Cracked by kent.dickey · · Score: 1

    My emulator, KEGS, gets most of the low-level disk details right. You can get it at http://kegs.sourceforge.net/. It's not that hard to do low-level disk timings. It's even easier to do straight bits from the drive, but I wrote KEGS for Pentium-class machines, so it worries about performance.

    However, I would have needed to create a new disk-image format for KEGS to use (the .nib format is woefully inadequate), and I never bothered. So there's no easy way to get a low-level description of an Apple II disk into KEGS, other than .nib images, which can't encode many types of copy protection.

  62. I REPENT by micromuncher · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was a good kid. But that's not really true. There was a moral ambiguity. My dad brought home an Apple ][+ in 1978 - and I was hooked. As soon as I discovered copy protection, I became disturbed. Why could a friend have a game and we couldn't share? I'd already started learning BASIC and 6502 machine language; but it didn't take me long to figure out how to "copy" something that wasn't meant to be copied. Disk duplication software was unreliable. Removal of the protection was the only way. And who did it really hurt...

    Some people pirated software. They collected it like baseball cards. Along comes an awkward teenager. All of a sudden, he has purpose and is "popular." Trading and playing software becomes less interesting than removal of protection. And notoriety does wonders for ego.

    You get an aliases. Alien, MicroMuncher, Optimus Prime and the Evil Sock... just to name a few (all the same person.) And the art and science of computing starts being applied to your evil deeds. It also leeds you to competition with other aliases that become friends; MicroManiac, and the Saint to name a couple. Removing protection isn't good enough. Things need to work exactly like the original. Something that fits on a disk (with potentially a foreign OS) must now be reduced to a file. And it must save high scores, or get you to the next level. Self loading software of minimum size. And then the glorious splash page! The fun of graphic arts and animation; sometimes the quality of which is better than the games its plastered over.

    For example... Dan Gorlin writes Airheart. A truly revolutionary game. And a revoluationary protection scheme. 18 sectors - and too much data to put on a single disk. What is a cracker to do? Re-write the OS to support block compression of course on a standard 16 sector format.

    Then a brutal realization as you enter adulthood. What if someone did that to you? Every excuse you had to copy or crack is recognized as an excuse. You feel bad. You wish you had written games instead of breaking them. You even go so far as to seek forgiveness from people who were truly exceptional. To create - that is the best you can do.

    Every time I see the old monikers I feel like crap. Going over asimov and noting the only reason certain software survives because YOU did something immoral - its like a WALL OF SHAME. I hang my head and punish myself a little more. I have nothing but reverance for the 8-bit pioneers and gaming gods.

    --
    /\/\icro/\/\uncher
    1. Re:I REPENT by Bright+Apollo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're making too much of your purported achievements, and consequently, the need to repent.

      It doesn't matter what you did to crack protection, ultimately, if it served you in the future to do something better. I never read any stories about the game programmers having to eat dog food as a result of some trainer splashed in front of Karateka.

      But hey, if you were the dude that cracked Lode Runner, man, thank you. Also, thanks go to the guy who hacked Wizardry so we could use +25 swords.

      -BA

    2. Re:I REPENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Going over asimov and noting the only reason certain software survives because YOU did something immoral - its like a WALL OF SHAME.

      There is nothing immoral about saving software, even if the preservation of the software was just a happy accident. You done good. Forgiven. Exculpated. Be proud. The historical record of computing and gaming is better off for it.

      A human being never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a small computer.

    3. Re:I REPENT by Erpo · · Score: 1

      As a kid, I always thought it would be really neat to design video compression algorithms. As I grew up, I saw friends passing around copies of pirated games and realized that copyrights and patents were fundamentally flawed ideas. Copy prevention is wrong, both because working copy protection is impossible and because it's immoral to use copyright law to prevent users from helping their friends. I feel bad for people who got duped into trying to sell information like a physical good, but I thank the crackers for keeping me in touch with reality.

      Some day, when a reasonable system for compensating inventors for their ideas (e.g. ransom licensing) becomes mainstream, I may dig out those old video compression ideas and try to turn an honest profit.

      For now, I make money selling real goods and providing valuable services. I scratch my coding itch by contributing to open source projects. Life is good. I earnestly appreciate what you and others like you have done for me.

    4. Re:I REPENT by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      Actually there are people who lost their jobs when their game company went out of business or was not profitable enough to avoid purchase by EA type companies. Imagine making a great game only to find that 60% of the users did not pay for it (and lies that none of them would have paid for it are frankly, ridiculous when these folks had $1000 computers). Sometimes just ten percent more profit would have saved jobs. It's impossible to point at exactly who game piracy has harmed, but it's genuinely harmed some people.

      Including everyone who likes games, since there are surely fewer great ones thanks to this phenom. Stealing games is actually pretty much identical to stealing physical stuff from a profit perspective, and that's what counts. A lot of physical inventory is thrown away too. Is it ok to steal one pack of gum if you know that eventually, a store will throw away five packages of gum instead of 6? No, because you have reduced demand for gum. You are profiting where others must pay.

      Nobody's perfect, and stealing software is a relatively minor sin. Nobody is claiming he is a bad person for making a mistake. It's a sign of strength that the GP realizes his piracy did actually do some bad.

  63. Arcade conversions by RobotWisdom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Chicago in 1981 I found it very easy to get hired to copy arcade games for the Apple, Atari, and C64 (all 6502). Roklan and Image Producers hired me to do Berzerk and Wizard of Wor (one was supposedly for Microsoft). There was no training or local expertise available, you just had to reverse engineer them. Then Atari(?) successfully sued somebody for a PacMan ripoff, and the whole bubble quickly burst...

    The Apple ][ was infamous for the bizarre layout of the graphics memory (supposedly Woz chose it to save a chip, or maybe a layer on the circuit board). And if the high bit was set, all the pixels in that byte shifted, creating the other two available colors.

    I found a hidden 'Hot Coffee' style easter egg in the text strings for Sierra's 'Wizard and the Princess'-- the placeholder text for the default/generic "I don't know how to **** something" reply was the f-word (never displayed)...

    1. Re:Arcade conversions by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      Whoa, Jorn is still alive? Hell, in Chicago in 1985 or so I was a kid learning to use a modem and dialing up into "Roger's Park BBS." How incredible that all seemed.

  64. Mystery House and Klarnons!!! by moxley · · Score: 1

    We got an Apple II in 1979 or 80. I was about 8 or 9 years old. I learned BASIC on it, but before that I learned the joy of computer gaming. It had 48k of RAM!!! Kickass!!! When we finally upgraded it to 64K I thought I was ready to play with the big boys.

    The first games we got for our Apple II were brought home by my dad with the computer. "Mystery House," which was an awesome text based ..I guess...adventure game w/some vector graphics...I remember finding a key in a chest and getting stuck in a damn forest that went on forever (the guy at the computer store said "Keep going north and west," yeah.. I never got out of that damn forest.

    Then there was AppleTrek - a star trek clone where you fight the "Klarnons" - For the available resources of the day these games were awesome.

    Later on I got Lode Runner (which was awesome cause you could make your own maps) and eventually progressed into some really cool games like "The Bard's Tale" and Ultima II/Ultima IV (which were actually really, really cool games that seemed massive at the time and if someone wants to release a version for Palm devices I would pay quite a bit for it).

    For the amount of resources available (my treo seems like a supercomputer compared to it) the games on the Apple II were indeed amazing.

    There was another first that came with the Apple II my family had as well (though I didn't realize it at the the time) - it was my first use of pirated software.

    I still remember that my dad would come home from computer meetings (they'd have them at the computer store or or YMCA in our town in California) and would give me a bunch of floppies - I still remember a bunch of the games I have had this PCP (Pacific Coast Pirates)logo - at the time I didn't know what that meant. Later on as I got older and started looking for software at these mini convetions myself I noticed that usually if a friend gave you a copy of a game on a 5.25 floppy it would have a logo...I am trying to remember some of the others....At that time most people didn't think of it any differently than dubbing a cassette tape (which, incidentally was the storage medium for the very first Apple II games we had).

    1. Re:Mystery House and Klarnons!!! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, AppleTrek, flying the USS Endeavour against the Klarnons, blowing up stars with a single torpedo. I remember trying to modify the game to use the names Enterprise and Klingons and it would self-destruct. I hadn't yet learned how that Integer BASIC program was able to store machine code inside the BASIC code without using DATA statements. And, though ProDOS supported the files, I never found an environment that would allow running Integer BASIC programs under ProDOS.

      One of my favorite games was SABOTAGE. So much fun making enemies fall to their death by shooting their parachutes off of them, also killing whoever they landed on. Also killing them with helicopter debris.

      I actually went to the lengths of disassembling the entire program and analyzing it to find out why it would self-destruct if you ran it on an Apple IIgs and entered the Classic Control Panel. It stored data in the screen holes of the text screen memory and if it detected modification of that data, it would proceed to wipe the memory. Presumably it was to counter memory-dumping programs, but the way I received it it was already a BRUN-able file under DOS 3.3. The Classic Control Panel didn't take care to preserve that information. Once patched to not care about modification of that data, I could enter the Control Panel with ease and change the processor speed.

      At the same time I converted it to run as a ProDOS SYS file so I could run it from a 3.5" disk without a full boot into ProDOS. Just a matter of getting it to know where it now needed to be loaded and relocating itself to where it wanted to be run in memory. It was easier than some games that would not BLOAD completely, which I never got around to investigating why.

      Of course, with the disassembly I also discovered where all the bitmapped graphics were stored in the game and the lookup table for the display. I had planned to update the graphics to use Apple IIgs graphics while not affecting the game logic. It was going to have improved color without compromising the collision detection code and a changing background. Choppers would fly by day, jet levels would be night, and it was going to include weather patterns, clouds, lightning storms, etc. animated just by changing the color palette. I also had plans for the extra screen real-estate.

      However, the lack of a 65c816 assembler for the platform prevented the completion of that conversion. I'd love to get my hands on a free cross-compiler environment that could run on Mac OS X or Linux and a suitable IIgs emulator. (Though I have retained the hardware to get files onto 3.5" discs readable by a real IIgs, it is impracticable.)

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:Mystery House and Klarnons!!! by moxley · · Score: 1

      Just throwing all of these terms around is nostalgic....

      SABOTAGE sounds familiar...Unfortunately I didn't have much technical skill when I used our Apple....

      It still resides somewhere at my folks place...I wonder if it would work - and it it will eventually be worth money as an antique PC.

  65. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, that sounds more like Armor Alley then Rescue Raiders. My family (well, my dad and my sisters) used to play that all the time because you could play co-op against the computer to get your giant convoy of tanks and one van to the other side of the screen. Good times.

  66. Colour Computer With A Green Screen Monitor by Petersko · · Score: 1

    All the games for the Apple IIe looked like crap because of those silly green monitors. Except, of course, for Lode Runner, which was unaffected.

    1. Re:Colour Computer With A Green Screen Monitor by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I had an Amber monitor. You didn't just have to buy a green one.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Colour Computer With A Green Screen Monitor by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      My setup was 'leet, 'cause I had a green screen for crisp 80-column text (the original AppleWorks for Apple //e rocked), and a color monitor (yes, a real monitor, not a TV; no fuzzy RF and tuning stages) for color games. Both at the same time, with a splitter.

      LodeRunner looked better in color. The player character was white (IIRC), and the blocks were blue. I forget whether the bad guys were colored or not.

  67. Endless Stories by CaptScarlet22 · · Score: 1

    God, I could write a book on so many stories about the Apple IIe and C64 and gaming. And how gaming really got me into computers back then. Spending endless hours of trying to solve Ultima 1-V or Bards Tales or even Moebius before my friends. Countless hours of hacking the programs to give me all stats/items I wanted. Which in turn lead me to pirating the software and distributing the software on BBS like Garden North/East/West/South, The Phenix BBS (2mg online!!!) under an assumed elite cracking group called The Brotherhood of Hades (Bob where are you?). All of this provided a path that I would later take on as my career later in life.

    No regrets folks, no regrets.......TBH FOR LIFE!!!

    --
    It's left blank because I have nothing to say to you punks!
  68. Prince of Persia? Really? by Bertie · · Score: 1

    Did this actually come out on the Apple ][? This was a mid-90s game, and if the ][ wasn't dead by then, I can't imagine it made much of a job of this game, as its main USP was the fluid, motion-captured animation of the characters.

    I write as an ignorant Brit who couldn't have afforded an Apple ][ in a million years.

  69. Original Apple //c by Aardvark99 · · Score: 1

    The picture of the "original" Apple //c in the article appears to actually be a newer model. You can tell by its platinum-colored keyboard. Original versions had a tan keyboard. There were technical differences as well...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIc#Memory_Expansion_IIc_.28ROM_version_.273.27.29IIc

  70. My favorites I haven't seen mentioned yet by MeditationSensation · · Score: 1

    Stargate (side scroll space shooter)
    Empire (war game)
    California Games (sports)
    The Last Ninja (action)

  71. Apple was expensive then, still is by fprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Way back when, I saved up for a long long time to buy my first computer. However due to extraordinarily high expense of the Apple ][ I ended up buying an Atari 1200XL, basically an upgraded Atari 800.

    I was always slightly jealous of my Apple-owning friends. They had these really cool magazines that came with software, some of the magazines even had disks inside of them! Their computers had disk drives, whereas mine had a hokeyed up tape drive since floppy drives were so expensive. Most of the time I'd spend hours typing in a program, finally get it to work, and then get yelled at to go to bed so would have to turn off the computer. Program lost. One of my friends even got published in one of the magazines for showing a GOSUB routine or something like that that allowed easy programming of text based adventures.

    I was in 9th grade, so this would be 1981, and learning computers was a whole ton of fun. I only wish it were easier to get my son, now 12, interested in programming rather than just playing the games. I tried Kids Programming Language, but I fear that kids these days just don't have the patience for writing code one line at a time, pressing run to see if it works, and then tweaking the code repetitively until it works. After seeing Unreal Tournament or some modern game, it must seem a little hokey to type all this stuff in just to move an icon from one side of the screen to another, or add 2+2 etc.

    My biggest joy was finally figuring out sprites on the Atari. After I figured that out I could finally make a graphical game. I think it was Craps or something lame.

    Oh the joys of reminiscing. Kids these days...

    --
    This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
  72. Re:Original Cracked by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    The majority of the copy protection routines on the Apple //e depended on nuances of a combination of hardware and software not just software. [..] A good fraction of copy-protected files could not even be made into a standard .dsk image, and thus would be most likely lost as the original magnetic media fades Here's a good example on the 8-bit Atari computers.

    Many game disks used special nonstandard physical formatting that ordinary Atari drives *could not* replicate (*). One example was use of duplicate sector numbers. My memory on this isn't perfect, and I'm filling in the gaps with guesswork, but IIRC it relied on having two sectors with different contents that were given duplicate numbers.

    When the drive was told "read sector X", it'd be semi-random which of the two arrived under the read head first. So, copy protection code could request data from the "same"-numbered sector and check its contents on successive reads. By the law of averages- possibly with some timing randomisation to help things- it would sooner or later get the "other" sector, and know that it was a genuine (nonstandard factory-made) disc.

    When such a disc was copied by an ordinary drive (even on a sector-by-sector basis) it would see one of the sectors first and only copy that. Even knowing about the copy protection and how it works wouldn't help us- we still *can't* write write duplicate-numbered sectors even if we want to. (**)

    The drive could *read* these and other weird formats- albeit sometimes in a backward way that wasn't always healthy for the drive- but there was no physical way to replicate the nonstandard structure using a plain Atari drive.

    (*) Reason being that the Atari floppy drives were "smart" (relatively speaking), and the logic that handled physical formatting of the magnetic structure was built-in to the drive's circuitry. You could start formatting a disk, turn the computer off, and the drive would complete the physical format, although it wouldn't write the filesystem.

    Therefore (*IIRC*) the physical disk formatting that you could create with the drives was limited to those that the drive's circuitry- and hardware- was designed to handle. I'm not sure if there were any sneaky ways around this- getting low-level or pseudo-low-level access to the formatting circuitry- without actually modifying the drive itself. I *do* know that there were many circuit boards for the 1050 drive that improved its performance and let it copy more disks.

    And (getting back to the parent's reply), if a standard disk image relies on the "normal" expected disk layout and doesn't include support for nonstandard physical hacks like duplicate sectors *and* the emulator doesn't replicate the pseudo-random timing/read issues of the physical drive rotation, then you can't replicate- let alone run- a copy protected program on one.

    (**) The obvious route around this, of course, is to simply bypass or disable the code that checks for copy protection. Easier said than done maybe, but certainly doable- after all, you have to be able to read the program to load it, and once that's done it's a question of finding the protection and rewriting the hacked version to an ordinary disc.
    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  73. Re:Prince of Persia? Really? by tuffy · · Score: 1

    The original Prince of Persia was originally created for the Apple ][ in 1989, so naturally the computer did a good job of it. All the beautifully animated character graphics were an evolution of Jordan Mechner's work on Karateka.

    --

    Ita erat quando hic adveni.

  74. Some of us pirated the Apple ][ hardware too by K4DSP · · Score: 1

    For some of us the games were of secondary interest. Lots of copies of the Apple ][ motherboard were floating around, and if you didn't mind soldering in 100 ICs and building a case and power supply you could have an Apple ][ clone for a fraction of the cost of a real one. Then you could build a Z80 card and run CP/M and get a C compiler, or if Pascal was your thing you could run the p-system. Heck, the Apple dealers would sell you a technical manual with the motherboard schematic and a monitor ROM listing! The possibilities were endless. http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/116

  75. I played LodeRunner, and Ultima IV by killmofasta · · Score: 1

    But my all time favrote, was The Eamon Adventures by Donald Brown. You didnt like how they worked? Modify them. We had a modified Inn disk that you could use to store special weapons.

    It was the basic origin for 'FreshMeat' HeHe!

  76. Re:Original Cracked by Dogtanian · · Score: 1
    Clarification:-

    So, copy protection code could request data from the "same"-numbered sector and check its contents on successive reads. [..] it would sooner or later get the "other" sector, and know that it was a genuine (nonstandard factory-made) disc. (Because the "same"-numbered sector contained different data on successive reads- something not normally possible on a healthy disc- it would "know" that there were actually two different sectors with the same number).

    When such a disc was copied by an ordinary drive (even on a sector-by-sector basis) it would see one of the sectors first and only copy that. Even knowing about the copy protection and how it works wouldn't help us- we still *can't* write write duplicate-numbered sectors even if we want to. (**) Hence all requests for data from sector number "X" would return the same result no matter how many successive reads were done, and the code would never proceed past the copy-protection stage.
    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  77. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by jqpublic13 · · Score: 1

    I believe the name of the game is 'Armor Alley' -- it was also available for the Macintosh...

    --
    Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
  78. I pirated everything on Apple II by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't buy a single piece of software. I even pirated the software I used to pirate other software. The people concerned about piracy were right.

  79. Robot Odyssey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm curious how many got into programming because of Robot Odyssey.

    I'm actually a bit surprised that people are listing so many plain ol' arcade-style games here. I tired of those quickly, and moved on to writing my own. Robot Odyssey is the only one that held my attention -- and I still think it's one of the top 3 games ever.

    It's got robots, a soldering iron, and a lab where you can burn your own ICs. How is this not awesome? That's 10 times more awesome than Lode Runner (move left and right) or Carmen Sandiego (a state machine of an almanac).

  80. Never mind 'get it straight' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're talking about hardware piracy here. Apple never got a cent from any of the clones that my buddies built. I saw lots of pirate Apple II clones. I never saw a pirate version of a Mac.

    I can't remember how they did it but Apple did a pretty good job of slamming the door on random motherboard manufacturers. Of course the point of the GP was that shutting down the pirates might not have been that clever.

  81. Re:Name of Helicopter game - please help me name i by portforward · · Score: 1

    THANKS! That name has been bugging me for months. It is rescue raiders. I hadn't heard of Armor Alley, although it looks very similar. Now to set up an emulator. . .

  82. No Joy Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's apparently a plugin for Firefox but they provide no means for downloading it manually and it won't install automatically.

  83. Benefits of Piracy? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Shhhh, you cant start making sense, its not allowed.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  84. i was hoping by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

    that you'd say Aztec. Also, Gemstone Warrior, if IIRC. And Repton.

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    1. Re:i was hoping by drerwk · · Score: 1

      I was hoping I'd see someone who remembered Repton - but are are you talking about the original from Sirius? I was amazed that the lizard people would steal the name.

  85. Thank You by Blue+Shifted · · Score: 1

    Thanks to you both, flowsnake and Colourspace, much appreciated.

  86. Re:Original Cracked by code4fun · · Score: 1

    Just have to find the right place in the hex editor and change the instructions to no-ops or make them jump in the right place. ;-) I remember when games loaded in memory. People with Wildcards would take a snapshot dump and save to floppies then execute them with the "brun" command. Fontrix was a great graphics editor. People used that to edit the title page and leave their signature, Cracked by the ... There were also neat stuff one could do in the monitor. ] call -151 $ 7fdg I enjoyed reading books like Beneath Apple Dos and Pro-Dos, Hardcore Computing journals and the Beagle Bros. Those were the good ole days. Gosh, I'm feeling old.

  87. Best basketball game of ALL TIME by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    Larry Bird vs. Doctor J.

    Why? Because even way back in the 80's, you could play a sports video game with a joystick where you could shatter the backboard, resulting in the janitorial staff coming out onto the court with a broom.

    Best

    basketball game

    EVER

  88. Taipan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't tried the linked game yet (downloading right now,) but does the Elder Brother paypack trick still work?

    For those new to the game, you could borrow money at the rate of 10% interest per month. The trick was to pay back more than you owed, so your debt was negative. Your elder brother effectively owed you, and "charged" 10% interest on that loan. In the big picture, this paid better than the actual bank which gave something like 6% on your deposit.

    Drawback was you couldn't really withdraw from him, I think the game limited loans to twice of what you had on hand. But the need for that was rare, you'd typically have your warehouse and ship filled to the brim with contraband (opium) ready to sell for quick money, and kept some petty cash in the bank.

  89. Oh hell..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    -Captain Goodnight
    -Bruce Lee
    -Ghostbusters
    -Zork 1 & 2
    -Airheart
    -Wings of Fury
    -Silent Service
    -Infiltrator 1 & 2
    -Russki Duck
    -H.E.R.O.
    -Spy vs. Spy 1 & 2
    -Rescue Raiders
    -Jake Cutter Beyond Rescue Raiders (FTW!!)
    -Skyfox
    -Arctic Fox
    -Some kind of text Star Trek game, with actual "klingons" and various quotes from ancient Roman philosophers when you hit the boundary of the galaxy.
    -A ton of smaller programs that were pulled from various sources. "Enterprise Square" in Oklahoma City has a series of games out -- mowing lawns, oil exploration, a supply/demand economic simulator.

    It'd take me a week to scour my memory of all the Apple games. However, my ftp program is currently going to work on asimov's server, so I'll see just what it pulls back. AWESOME.

    Thanks again to the Woz.

  90. I find it funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that some of so-called "Apple II" games mentioned came out earlier on Commodore C-64 and Atari 800XL with better graphics and sound. Not only that, but on those computers you could use a regular 9-pin joystick (easily borrowed from the Atari 2600 console) to play them as intended instead of some keyboard-based kludge.

  91. What was that game? by Propaganda13 · · Score: 1

    It was a typing game where a spaceship in a 8x8? street grid pattern with enemies spawning at the edge of the screen where one hand flew and one hand shot. Does anyone remember the name?

  92. Wow, the memories this brings back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, I was one of those pirates. I didn't actually hack a single game myself, but I ended up being the "middle man" (or really, teen) between two large hacking/distribution groups in the Washington D.C. area. The reason I got in to both groups? I had an original copy of Wizardry, and nobody else did. I swear my copy must have been spread to hundreds.

    By the time it all ended with the demise of the Apple II's run, I had over 3K floppies worth of games, copies, saved games, etc. My father would go out and purchase boxes of floppies by the hundreds if he knew I was going to one of my two friend's houses that were in the rings. I'd come home with 50 or more diskettes full of stuff. Heck, we even drilled holes into the side of the disk drives so you could insert a screwdriver into it to adjust the speed for those games that had speed sensitive writes incorporated into the copies. That was always fun.

    A good number of the games I never played more than once to try it, and I did buy quite a few of the games. I had original copies of all the Wizardry games released, originals of all the Ultimas, Bard's Tales, and Infocom adventures. It was the arcade games that I generally pirated, because I didn't like them THAT much. Although I can't remember the actual name for the life of me, the one game I would have considered buying was the one where you dug holes to trap the apples, while climbing up and down ladders to evade them. That game was a challenge better than Pac-Man ever was. What was that game? Apple Dig? Bah, I can't remember.

    Man, those were the good old days, where software was released without bugs requiring 10 patches to fix. I swear companies leave major bugs in just to defeat the "zero day" crowd.

  93. the AppleCAT modem and CatFur by AgentPhunk · · Score: 1

    I remember when I upgraded to the AppleCat modem - I think it did 1200 or 2400 baud, and coupled with an file transfer utility (CatFur) written by a guy named "the Micron". I met the guy a few times a computer shows. (Hey K.!) IIRC, the utility took advantage of the applecat modem and doubled(?) transfer speeds when you had the same modem on both ends. It revolutionized pirating! I -literally- have 1000+ disks of software, text files, etc up in the attic. I just wish there was an easier way to transfer them up to my PC for permanent storage. The only way I know of is to transfer them serially via modems. Why can't someone just build a USB-to-Apple drive adapter? :-)

  94. Re:Prince of Persia? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Persia_(video_game)

    Came out in 1989, written for the Apple II and ported to all the other platforms.

  95. Best computer ever by nothingtodo · · Score: 1

    1984.... in high skool and discovering the all the //e models and a few ][+ models. I always made sure to pick the computer with dual floppies in class. Made copying easier. (BRUN DISKMUNCHER 1.1) Eventually made friends with the guys that had all the cracked games and remember carrying my 2 flip-n-files all day. I was good at Loderunner ( to kill the sound during class)and remember having about 17 extra players and may have gotten to only about level 75 and 150 that game had. All of us played beyond castle wolfenstein, and I managed to kill Hitler once. Didn't get my own computer until my Dad bought me a used ][+ for $200 with no disk drive in 1987. Eventually bought a controller card and two aftermarket drives. My ][+ had a encoder board that allowed true lower case, shift key, autorepeat, and a keyboard buffer. A year later, I paid $150 for a AE Viewmaster 80column card and I could run Appleworks now! Hated that I could not run new programs for the enhanced //e though.

    --
    -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
  96. I moved because of Oregon Trail by GoodNicksAreTaken · · Score: 1

    I think I spent too much time playing games as a kid. The largest factor in my moving to Oregon was having played Oregon trail. I'm quite disappointed to find out that if you eat Amanita Muscaria you only THINK you have the ability to throw fireballs.. *-I lied.. I've never eaten the red mushrooms.. I hear the ones that stain blue are good though

  97. lemonade by scolbert · · Score: 0

    Does anyone remember Lemonade Stand? That was the first game I played on the Apple ][. I would love to have that game redone on my iPhone. Would that be sweet? I love when old games are ported to new devices... like PacMan as a iGoogle widget (flash). Cool.

  98. Re:Original Cracked by slew · · Score: 1

    Wildcards? Nah, that stuff was for wimps and it made HUGE game images which took a long time to transfer over a 1200 baud modem (2400 if you were lucky) and did the classic shutter window loading splash screen.

    Real game cracks were done by tracing the boot loader stages one-by-one until the game was loaded into memory. Basically, you started by making a copy of the floppy rom boot-loader in ram and using it to load the first boot sector, disassemble the boot loader, patch it in hex or rewriting them as necessary, and then when the app was all loaded, then hit the reset (or ctrl-reset) to jump into a custom os that is hidden in 0x300 memory to save the app image into the smallest possible file so you could store 5-10 game images on the same floppy. If we had to "cheat" because the reset vector was compromized, we wired up the NMI on the motherboard to a push button switch...

    Not saying that anything like this ever actually happened, though... ;^)

  99. You left out a few by Wolfier · · Score: 1

    Crisis Mountain, Lady Tut, Lode Runner, Dark Lord, every single Ultima, and.... ... ... ...

    THE MAGIC CANDLE

  100. Bit Insertion by Wolfier · · Score: 1

    Anyone? I got suck a kick when I first cracked it myself. I still remember it being on Data East's Robocop.

  101. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    Swordsman / 202 Alliance forever!

  102. My Apple ][ by JetScootr · · Score: 1

    I bought my Apple ][ in 1979. It HAD true lower case, and I read DrDobb's to find the snippet of machine code for the sweet-16 interpreter that would make the shift key work like a regular shift key. The lower case was in the box, but wasn't in the keyboard.
    ][+ changed all that, however, with the built-in Microsoft Basic (yes, it was slow and needed more RAM). God I wish I'd kept it - serial number was less than 33,000 (32668 or something else similar to 32768 - 2^15).
    The disk driver was unlike anything else on the market - you could remap the sector addresses, speed it up and increase 5.25 disk storage from the stock 140K to as much as 180K - COOL.
    I still have the red book, however.

    --
    Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
  103. Re:[Apple II? Gaming platform?] What about Amiga? by phillct · · Score: 1

    You're correct, this did delve venture into the realm of Commodore. I do have quite a history and thus a not-so-objective point of view on the subject, but What about Amiga?

    The Amiga 500 was made by Commodore, but was really quite revolutionary at the time. I would find a comparison of the Apple II (gs) and the Amiga as a gaming platform very interesting, because in many ways the Amiga was pigeonholed by gaming, when in fact it was a platform with extreme promise in a fuller spectrum of applications.

    I miss the days when truly proprietary chip sets were available for personal and business computing. The computer industry as a whole suffered from the loss of the ability to really comparison shop between computer hardware. I think people have the illusion of options with the presence of Linux, Apple, and the various Windows OEM machines (like HP, Dell, Sony). In truth, the hardware comparisons are subtleties compared to walking into a computer shop and being able to look at an Atari [ST], an Apple, a Commodore 64 & 128, a Commodore Amiga (500 -- marketed as a gaming machine and the 1000/2000 -- a real full sized desktop), and an Apple Macintosh. There was a day when these were all on the shelves simultaneously.

  104. Re:Prince of Persia? Really? by adah · · Score: 1

    Did this actually come out on the Apple ][?

    Not only it is true, but I played it a few weeks ago on the Apple II emulator as well. I even like the Apple version, because the emulator allows me to save at any time :-).

  105. Star Blazer by tgibbs · · Score: 1

    My personal favorite from that era was a game called Star Blazer by Tony Suzuki. The game itself was not particularly original--a side scrolling shooter where you were mainly attacking ground targets. But the physics was very good--when you dropped a bomb, the bomb took on the velocity of your plane, meaning that you could do all sorts of tricks like "lofting" bombs. And it had the best progression of difficulty that I've seen in any game. On each level, there was an "optional technique" that you could discover, which was not necessary to pass the level, but greatly enhanced your score. And then on the next level, that same technique would turn out to be crucial, so each level sort of functioned as training for the one to come.

  106. The NESdev scene needs you by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you can dig up your 6502 notes, perhaps you can try your hand at developing for the NES.

  107. atari 400/800 more a glorified 5200 than a 2600 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SSIA

  108. crap by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

    You got me, man. I didn't know there were two...

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com